May 11, 2025 • 35 mins
On 29 February 2024, the coroner delivered her findings into the disappearance of Marion Barter, Sally’s mum. After almost 27 years, Sally was left with more questions than answers—questions she was determined to resolve. In this episode, hear what unfolded in the aftermath of the inquest and discover what comes next.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apodge production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Sally Leyden had the support of dozens of loved ones
as a coroner. Today confirmed what she's known all along.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Today I'll be delivering my findings in the inquest into
the disappearance and suspected death of Floribella Natalia Marion Ramical
known as Marion Barter, and who I'll be referring to
as Marian.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
That was New South Wales State Coroner Magistrate Teresa O'Sullivan
in a story that has more twists, turns and intrigue
than a thrillery to.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
A decision tonight, a lot of Australia's highest profile mysteries
that stretches from Queensland to Newself.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
More than half her life without her mum, and a
lengthy inquest.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
But tonight Sally Leyden has no answers. I can't comment
it time.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm sorry, unable to say where and unable to say
how about confirming the mother last seen at a Southport
best song.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It was a middle of winter.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Mother Marion Barton disappeared in nineteen ninety six. She'd been
dating mad Rick flu Live. She also found New South
Wales police bungled the missing person's investigation.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Coron has just told me officially my mum's deceased. So
that's the first time I've heard that in twenty seven years. Okay, well,
I'm a bit nervous to be honest. Welcome and thanks
everybody for jumping on and taking time to listen, because
people listening is actually what helps make a difference in
(01:35):
the case of a missing person, and the support of
the people is actually why I'm here today. And I've
got my trustee right hand woman sitting next to me,
Joony Condos.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Hello, Hello, Hello everybody.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
You've flown up from Melbourne to come and have a
chat with me and discuss what we've been doing.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
We've been pretty busy, haven't we.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Sure have the findings into my mum's inquest ended on
the twenty ninth of February last year, twenty twenty four.
I remember when they announced the date, I do and
I went, oh my god, it's a leap year.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Oh yes, you know.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
I was like that date's come around once every four years.
And it was a difficult time for me and for
you because well, yours time had sort of ended because
we'd both been gagged.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Right, I can't comment at this time. I'm sorry. We
use the word gagged.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
But you know, we'd signed documents with the coroner's court
to say that we would not talk about any of
the information discuss it with anybody, And at that point
I actually had to ask permission for Jonie to be
allowed to join me because I was struggling. Like we'd
gone from talking multiple times a day about the case
and about all the information and about what Joonie was
(02:50):
still finding and what I was finding and I was hearing,
and all of a sudden they told me I couldn't
talk to anybody. So the only person I was allowed
to talk to was my husband, Chris, and my kids.
Actually just Ella, Ella, that's a lot for her. This
is her grandmother and she's seeing her mum go through
huge stress, and she was very worried about me. And
the fact that we were both not able to talk
(03:11):
to anybody did cause a few problems because previously we
were very open and telling everybody everything, and then all
of a sudden, you and I were encapsulated into this
little hole by ourselves where we could not talk to
anybody that was to media, to the people that were
helping us, the super sluice, and people did get upset
with us because we weren't being as open as we
(03:32):
liked to be. I was in a contract with Channel
seven and that extended right up until a year after
the findings. So you know, it's only just been in
February this year that I've been openly allowed to talk
and tell everybody what we've been doing and what's been
happening behind the scenes.
Speaker 6 (03:50):
I mean, we sort of used the word gagged. We
did sign legal documents. It was because we were privy
to the brief of evidence that came from New South
Wales Police into the coroner. So therefore all of that
information and was in a very very difficult position because
you had a whole lot of information. You were working
(04:11):
with a media outlet who wanted that information for the podcast,
and it was very very tricky to be stuck in
the middle of the two pressures coming one from the left,
one from the right to try and ingest and digest
all that information that was in the brief of evidence,
and a lot of that stuff you hadn't even heard
before about your own mother.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Leading up to her trip an unbeknown to friends and family,
she had officially changed her name to the elaborate Flora
Bella Natalia Marion Ramakel returning to Australia later in the
year without contacting her loved ones. She made a series
of large cash withdrawals from her bank account before she
(04:54):
completely disappeared.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
In the weeks leading up to her disappearance, Marian was
seen with a tall male who was unknown to us
and to a family amateurs.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Sleuths were unleashed on the investigation trying to piece together
the Marion Barter mystery, and one of those sleuths made
a critical breakthrough linking Marion to a Belgian born convicted
con man by the name of Rick Blum. Blum confirmed
that he had been in a relationship with Barter in
(05:25):
the months before she disappeared.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
This evidence, along with his lies and deception throughout the inquest,
has convinced me that he does indeed no more than
he's saying.
Speaker 6 (05:35):
When Sally first initially applied for all the documents from
New South Wales Police, basically when it was printed out
it was just all black paper, so the redactions were
so massive that it was almost not even worthwhile even
going through the stress of trying to get the information.
So then to see those documents and see all the
(05:56):
redactions lifted off and to see that the reality was
underneath there. There really wasn't much so to come at
that point and to be able to have some kind
of outlet, I was outside of the family system. I
was sort of outside of Channel seven and the media
as well in a lot of ways. So to be
(06:17):
able to have that person, I think that was outside
of everything, that was interested across everything, and we could
banter backwards and forwards, I think was very good.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Well, I think it was a lifeline for me. Really,
you were a lifeline for me because I couldn't talk
to anybody. I started to have trust issues. I was
getting fed a lot of things. People were telling me things.
They were pretty crazy mentally, mind boggling things. And you
were a support person and a savior for me a
lot of things. And I think because you've got a
background in social work too, you were very understanding about
(06:52):
the facts that people coming to me with theories that
weren't proven or weren't factual, but just an idea based
on one.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Or two elements.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
And how hard that is for a family member to process,
because I process everything like you know, you tell me
something and I'm going to sit there and think about it.
You tell me my mum was burnt and put in
the back of a car, I'm going to start thinking
about that, and so I'm going to start processing that.
So you protected me in a lot of that realm
because people would comment, and you know, I think you've
(07:24):
always been very kind and polite to those people, because
everyone means well by their ideas and thoughts, but you know,
there is a back end to that of the person
who's receiving it. And the podcast grew phenomenally overnight, and
you know, launched us into this world of millions of
people who just want to help find my mum, which
(07:45):
was absolutely amazing.
Speaker 6 (07:47):
And I think, look, a lot of people were so
well intentioned and had amazing awesome skills as well, So
there was a lot of people there that were absolutely
excellent as web sleuths or researchers or people interested in
finding open source information. Was absolutely fantastic. But I think
this sort of tension was was because we had oversight
(08:11):
of all the documents that others couldn't see. From the
brief of evidence, we could immediately knock out some of
the possibilities that had come to us too from the
open source.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Knowing what we know what we couldn't share.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
That that was and you couldn't share it was difficult
because then the person would go away and do another
three four five days work on an aspect, and you're
sitting there thinking, if only I could let you know
this piece of information so you didn't kind of waste
your time in a way.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
So I'd be on the phone to you and I
would go actually going into territory I can't talk about okay,
and you'd go.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Okay, let's just cut it.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
Stand by now because we're not going to discuss it.
Because I was really paranoid about that. I was like,
I am going to do the right thing. I am
not talking to anybody about it. If I find myself
in that situation, I'm literally walking away. So we get
to the findings, and that week like, oh my god,
(09:14):
Chris's dad passed away on the Sunday, you know, and
this is hard for my kids. You know, my kids
had no grandmother, so both Chris's mom had passed away
and my mom was missing.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And then one of.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Their grandfathers passes away, and then we had to leave
them to come to Sydney, to come down for the
findings because I refused to bring them again.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I brought them down.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
As most people would know, the coroners had set a
date in twenty twenty two for the findings, and I
flew my entire family and Ella's partner, so there were
six of us. We got two rooms at the hotel.
We had to have a bigger car so we could
get us all around. We literally landed. I went to
visit my auntie on the way up to see my
(09:59):
dad quickly before the findings was happening the following day
and I got a phone call from my lawyer as
I'm walking around Coles and he said, oh, I'm just
letting you know that they've vacated. I said what does
that mean. He said, they've canceled it. And I said, well,
we're here. He goes, what You're in Sydney already, and
I like, yes, we've come down a couple like a
(10:20):
couple of days earlier to go and see my.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Dad and see honey Rob.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
And you know, he goes, oh my god, well, yeah,
they've just told me that they vacated. I said, well,
have they got a new date and he says no.
So I'm walking around Coles I've just looked at Chris
and went, oh my god, it's three weeks before Christmas.
We've just spent six thousand dollars to fly our family down,
(10:44):
get a car, a couple of nights accommodation in the city,
and no one told us that they canceled. Chris rings
Detective Inspector Nigel Warren and said, Nigel, we've just had
a phone call from the lawyers saying that it's been vacated.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
We're in Sydney. We've just flown down and dragged the.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Kids down to come to this and he said, did
no one tell you? We had a meeting last Thursday
and it was decided then that we were going to
do more investigation.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
The coroner wanted to vacate.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
And I said, so you knew on Thursday and that's Monday,
and no one told me that it was being paused, canceled, rescheduled.
I said, do we have a new date and he said, no,
we don't, and I remember.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm sure you do too. I do.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
We went into the city that night for dinner and
I was absolutely I was so mad.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I was upset. I was crying. I was like, I've
just prepared.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Myself that the corain is going to tell me my
mum is deceased, and trying to process that with my children.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And then I arrive in Sydney, we go through the rigmarole,
we go through the.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Cost and expense of it all, and we don't even
get told that they've canceled.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Mind you, they didn't.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Even to this date still they've never had an apology
to say we're really sorry that we failed to bring
you to advise you of that, would even ring my
lawyers and tell them they'd set aside that time for
the week as well. And you know, so there's just
really a lack of care when it comes to that
sort of thing. And I remember ringing you, and I'm
standing on the tram platform in the middle of near
(12:20):
Wynyard station and all the family are sitting there waiting
to get dinner.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
And you and I were pow wowing, and I was
beside myself.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
I was just so angry. I think I even saw
like red spots in front of my eyes because I
just I just thought to myself, you've got to be
kidding me. To me, it was the disrespect of not
only yourself, who can you know you're quite mabile, you
can go up and down, but your whole family and
your children having to process. And I put myself in
(12:53):
your position and thought if that was me with my husband,
with my son and having to tell my son, you know,
and get him ready, and you were trying to prepare
three of your.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Children for this.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
I looked at that and I thought, that is bureaucracy
gone mad, like that is a situation that just should
never have happened, because the coerennial process is actually meant
to be about the family and about providing answers to
the family.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
That's ultimately what.
Speaker 6 (13:20):
It's therefore, so the fact that you were not even informed,
I just shook my head like that was someone's job.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
I guess I'm a person who has to process everything.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I need to know what's happening.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
I need to know how it's going to go so
that I can prepare myself and I can actually be solid.
That's just who I'm programmed to be. And I had
organized and booked a table at Doyle's as a celebration
of life, and we kept that booking because we couldn't
change our flights.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
There were six of us we still had to stay.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
We still had to roll through the punches while we
were in Sydney even though it didn't happen, and going
to Doyle, so it just felt empty. I just felt like,
you know, we're here, Chris got COVID. It was just
a big fat mess, a big fat mess. And then
you know, then we had the flip side of them.
(14:16):
Vacating was quite good at the end of the day,
which I came to recognize because we ended up bringing
all of these witnesses to the table and that was
important and I was happy that that actually had started
to transpire because prior to that, they were like, nothing
to see here, move on. You know, these are the
two reasons while we're having the inquest. But I think
(14:37):
the coroner then saw that there was a purpose to
bringing these women who had also had dealings with reck
Blum in their life under multiple different names and aliases
and multiple different ways that he interacted with them. It
was important to hear their side of the story as well.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
It could talk in a way that every woman would
have lots of stories. Until I found out that well.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
You half fifths, we come to that week when it
actually did happen. Fast forward another eighteen months or however,
long it was. I can't remember now, it was quite
(15:25):
a long time. But the police obviously had to do
their investigation. They need to talk to international police, and
it was quite a convoluted kind of situation. But Brian
Chris's dad passes away on the Sunday. He was not
well Friday night and we were with friends for dinner,
and she's actually a theaterter, so Chris was sort of
talking to her and she's jumping on the phone to
(15:45):
Chris's brothers while we're at dinner, and very stressful, not
as very fun and full well knowing that the following Thursday,
we were going to the Fine Digs for my mum's inquest.
So we flew down and I was very touched by
the sentiment that Jackson, who is Ella's partner, they've been
together for five years, that his grandparents had actually gone
to a wedding down in Melbourne and they were on
(16:07):
their way back to Brisbane and they made the choice
to actually stop in Sydney and came with us to
the findings. And I felt like I had family with
me with them doing that, and you know, such beautiful
humans like I'm forever grateful to them. They're just amazing people,
and you know you got to meet them journey the.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Night before, right, Yeah, that's right. And we had a
couple of others join us.
Speaker 6 (16:32):
Yes, So there was myself, sal her family, and then
the wonderful Sherry and the two twins from Byron Bay
who were involved in the the Hayes case. So they
actually came all the way down for the findings. And
there was also a very special person there who we
didn't realize at the time would possibly be the last
(16:53):
time that you saw your friend who also visited.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:56):
So one of my really good friend's longest friend. You know,
we've been in his life and he's been in ours,
and he text me, I sit on, I'm in Sydney.
Can we catch up anyway, around eight point thirty he
sort of poked his head around the bar and looked
at me and then came.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Running over and gave me a big hug.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
That was my friend Rick, And it broke my heart
because the following Wednesday I got a phone call from
his ex partner telling me that he had died. So
I literally came home from the findings, had to fly
back down the following week to go to his funeral.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So that was chaos, absolute chaos.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Today, more than two decades since she vanished a coronial
inquest into Marion's disappearing.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Coroner O'Sullivan's somber conclusions in a court room in Lidcombe
in Sydney's West yesterday tied off some chapters in this
painful saga, but left the door ajar for the hunt
for Marion's killer.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Let's talk about the findings.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Let's talk about what happened at the findings, because that
was a pretty big day.
Speaker 6 (17:56):
As we're driving in, all I could see was green everywhere,
basically just to sea of green. People walking in, people
sitting down having coffee, all in green.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
And that's mum's favorite color, right, So yeah, I asked,
I asked everybody, everybody to wanted to come. I was
amazed how many people came just to see. It was
a sea of green, and it made me feel instantly comforted.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
There's lots of media there.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Sally laid it and had the support of dozens of
loved ones as a coroner. Today confirmed what she's known
all along.
Speaker 6 (18:30):
Yes, there was a lot of media there and I
think possibly my observation or opinion was that I think
it did catch the court a little bit unawares as well.
So when they all showed up and there was basically
like a sea.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
Of green walked down and he goes, what is going
on because the whole corridor was just full of us
and they were like, how are we going to fit
you all in? And then others actually had to go
into the overflow overflow.
Speaker 6 (18:56):
Yeah, that was just an absolutely awesome sight.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Power to the people. Marion matters, right, Marion matters, And
you better just know that people care about her.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Yeah, you know, not just me, now that millions of
people care about my mum and they want to know
what's happened to her.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yes, yeah, And that was incredibly powerful.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
I had an interaction with Chris with Nigel Warren again,
who now is the o I c the officer in
charge of mum's case, and we were chatting and I
said to him, so where are we at, you know,
what's happening and he pretty much said to me, well, Sally,
we've got eight hundred cases and we need to prioritize.
And then we got in there and the coroner actually
(19:38):
said that you know, she was not very happy with
New South Police and how they handled the case.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
She also found New South Wales police bungled the missing
person's investigation, recommending it now be referred to homicide detective and.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Pretty much said that, you know, due to your inaction
and not following procedure and the Commissioner's handbook properly because
remembering you know. For those that don't know, they actually
listed my mum as an occurrence only back in October
nineteen ninety seven. When I went into the police and said,
something's wrong. My mom's overseas and money's coming out of
(20:14):
her bank account in Byron Bay. She's missed my brother's
birthday and that's out of character. They marked her as
an occurrence only. And an occurrence only is if your
house gets broken into and someone steals your TV. That
is what an occurrence is, and they market as such
in the file and it said no action required. So
they had marked my mum as no action required until
(20:36):
the person is listed as missing and it was in
action due to other work priorities. That was the language
we saw a lot, wasn't it in all the documentation
that we had, And I was like, this is where
it really was grinding my gears because I was like,
my mom does matter, and she counts she's not a
lost puppy, she's a human being and she's missing, and
all her money's been taken, and all her jewelry, all
(20:57):
her belongings that were in that shipping container that have
never been located, artwork, you know, like why is this
not important? And I mean I had the problem where
I did the podcast and then they kept saying to me,
we hate the podcast, we hate the podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
The podcast is a big problem for.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
Us, and that caused problems as well going forward. But
I mean, you know, we came out of the court
and people were hugging me.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It wasn't celebratory.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
I wouldn't say that, but it was sort of like, okay,
it's almost like a line in the sand, like we've
gotten to this point. Their findings were quite solid, like
it was a lot to digest. It was nearly sixty pages,
I think, and we actually walked past another like a
one of the investigators that was part of the initial team.
She had found out that we were planning to go
(21:44):
overseas so she just said, I really hope you find something.
So that to me did take me aback from the
point of view that she was talking to a daughter
of a missing person, and another community member that had
been helping you, you know, for so many years. And
(22:08):
I actually suddenly thought to myself, Okay, we are literally
alone in this mission. And I thought to myself, too, Okay,
obviously that means that there's nothing that's actively being worked
on or else.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Why would that be said?
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Well, and then we left right and we walked everyone
sort of left, and I got pulled in with my
legal team for about ten minutes and had a private
chat to them.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
You know, this is the sneaky thing. We opened the
door and there was a media.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
The same woman that was actually in the court trying
to get me to talk to her was standing at
the door while I'm talking to the legal team, and
she's scurried down the pathway of the corridor as soon
as we opened the door, and I was like, do
not tell me. You were just standing there listening like
it was just such a bizarre day, you know. And
then to come downstairs and to see an absolute feel
(23:05):
of media standing there wanting to hear me talk and
I wasn't allowed to and we already had a plan
in place that I was just to walk past the media,
get in my car and drive around to a park
around the corner, and we told a few of the
people who had come to support me, and everyone sort
of just made their way around there. But you know,
(23:25):
even walking up to the car, I've got, you know,
someone throwing a microphone in my face asking me what
do I feel and what do I think? And I'm
just like, I'm really sorry, I can't talk to you.
I cannot a comment at this time.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Has this brought you any closure at all?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Do you miss your mum?
Speaker 5 (23:41):
What kind of question is that? Are you trying to
get an emotion out of me? Like I'm I'm a
person who's quite private with my emotion. I am strong,
but I'm also very sensitive, and I just like to
grieve in my own personal way, and I like to
do it in my own private way. I don't even
really do it in front of kids and Chris. I
(24:02):
just so that was pretty rough. And we went around
and Channel seven News was set up there and we
did a news report that night for the TV that night,
and I remember just being focused on the fact that
no one had apologized to me. I haven't even had
an apology. If I can put it, put it out there.
You know, I still haven't from the police had any
(24:22):
apology for how I've been treated. You know, I've just
been told my mum's deceased for the first time. It's
twenty six years and I've had to fight tooth and
nail to get people to listen to me. I had
to fight to it now for them to even say
she was missing, let alone that she's deceased. And then
they passed it over like I mean, the recommendation from
(24:43):
the coroner was that it goes to the unsolved homicide team,
which indicates to me, if it's a homicide, it's murder.
She has died by foul play of some description. Otherwise,
as we have spoken about before, she would have put
it back with the missing persons unit. There is a
very different line in the sand for that too. You're
(25:04):
either murdered or you're missing. And if she thinks that,
she would have put her with the missing person's unit,
but she put her with homicide unsolved homicide, And you know,
it was pretty heartbreaking to know that they had just
pretty much blink told me that she wasn't a priority
to them. You know, I think we got to the
end of doing the interview and Alison and Brian and
(25:25):
the Lady Vanisher's Channel seventeen had put the podcast into
a book format and that was getting released, I think,
and they were just sort of tidying up the last
episodes for that, and I just was left. I felt
like I was at a bit of a crossroads as
to what to do now.
Speaker 6 (26:03):
From my perspective, I guess we came out of the
court and for me, all I saw was pretty much
every single media outlet there in Australia, and I was
so excited and that's probably the wrong word, but to
actually have the ability to have all of those journalists
(26:23):
standing there that were going to be reporting on this
outcome and the potential images, photos, and I actually realized, oh,
you can't actually stand on the steps of the actual
building itself and talk to all of the media and
get your story out broader because that.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Is what we need.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
Oh no, because we're literally going to be whipped around
the corner into a park to miss out on that opportunity.
And look, I understand the rationale of why, but I
just felt very very upset about that.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
How do I feel? I don't actually know.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
Coron has just told me officially my mum deceased, So
that's the first time I've heard that in twenty seven years,
which is a long time. As you can appreciate, it's
hard enough when someone does die, but to not have
them in your world for such a long time and
not know and then get to the point where you
find out that they have died and we now need
to move to the next stage of what that involves
(27:23):
for me.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
I guess people could be kind of wondering sala like
why we're doing this here now in this space, and
I guess why they're not seeing like another episode ping
on their podcast apps from The Lady Vanishers, which did
(27:46):
an extraordinary job, an enormous amount of interviews, fantastic work,
picked it up from basically a story that was known
to you and your family but nobody else, and turned
it into an absolute juggernaut of a podcast in the
true crime world. I feel like it's kind of brave
(28:07):
that we're sitting here together in another studio doing something
a bit different. But I just wondered, Yeah, I guess
a lot of people would be asking and wondering why
we're here and while we're not with the Lady Vanishers
doing yet another episode, and.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
I definitely, I'm sure people are going to be asking
that question. And I was with Channel seven for six
years and gave them my everything, and they gave me
a huge amount back. It was amazing, It was stressful,
It was mind blowing some of the things that we
did together. And you know, Ran and I spent a
(28:46):
huge amount of time together, and I have huge respect
for him and for Allison for doing everything that they
did to help.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Project my story.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
When no one else was listening to me, Allison listened
and she sat with a coffee and she knew this
was a good story to tell, and she helped me
and brought Brian into the space and helped me tell well.
And look, Lady Vanishel's had fifty seven episodes, and a
lot of the episodes at the end there were sort
of looking into Rick Blum more predominantly than about my mum.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Who was the missing person.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
And I was actually finding out quite stressful that the
intro to the podcast was all about the daughter looking
for her missing mother and the daughter on a mission.
But then we're talking about Alona Reid and her children
and her ex partners and bringing them into the mix.
And I understand that that is an important side to
my mum's story. But I maybe made the suggestion of
(29:40):
perhaps doing a spinoff podcast that wasn't really about my mum,
Like the intro is all about Mary, but then it
was all about Reck Blum, and I was like, maybe
we should do a spinoff podcast that was sort of
more about Rick Blum and we could link them together.
And you know, that just wasn't going to work. To
be honest, I didn't know that that was going to
(30:01):
be the last episode. I heard it on the episode
whenever else did that that was going to be the
last one.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
This is the final episode of The Lady Vanishes, to
be fair.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
At that point in time, you know, Allison and Brian
had been busy doing other podcasts as well. They'd done
Shot in the Dark, which was really amazing and brought
attention to another victim. I felt like I had been
given a lot of their time and energy and effort,
and you know, potentially this was you know, we got
to an inquest, which is what I had always said
to them at the very beginning. I just wanted my
goal was to get to an inquest, and the inquest
(30:36):
had finished, so I understood the concept that you know,
maybe we'll wrap up the Lady Vanishers and they were
writing their book, they released the book. Yeah, you and
I just were left to go and work out what
we wanted to do. And that's how we got to
the last twelve months of what we've been doing. Like
when you and I decided that what we were going
to do this last twelve months, there was no chat about, hey,
(31:00):
let's go into our own podcast. We actually just I
just wanted to do it in my own quiet time,
go and find the information that we actually required. And
it was really the drive from the people following, going,
when are you going to tell us? How are you
going to tell us you should do a podcast? You
should do a podcast? And I was like, oh my goodness.
People actually still want to know what we're doing and
(31:21):
what's happening. So that's pretty much what's driven the concept
of us thinking and even considering doing something crazy like this.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
I'm really excited about this next phase in the journey
with sal Thank you to everybody that's followed along with
us over the years and for sticking with us. We
really hope that you do stick with us through this journey.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
It's been a whirl win of a year.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
And you know, in the next upcoming ten episode, you're
going to hear about every place we visited on our
you know, three weeks away, we went to six different countries.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
We did a.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Search, which you know was a massive thing for me
to have to do mentally, and you know, we're going
to talk about that. And we did some live shows,
which was just an amazing experience for me personally, and
it showed me that people really care and wanted to
help project us into this space so that we could
(32:18):
actually go and do the research that still needed to
be done. And I just I want to do a
shout out as well to oh Media because one of
the big bosses there was listening to the podcast and
actually reached out to her quite some years ago and
asked if we could do a billboard, and she came
to the party and we had a double sided, both
sides of the road billboard for Mum down in Grafton,
(32:41):
and we did actually have one of those electronic billboards
inside the shopping center at Lismore too. But I remember
the floods happened just shortly after that and they all
went underwater, and I was having dreams about Mum's poster
floating down in the water, like it was just horrendous.
Like I know that sounds weird for some people to think,
but I was like, oh my gosh, like I've just
(33:01):
finally got to this stage of having some really good
pubblicity in that space where.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I know she was in that backyard.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
And you know, I just wanted to say thanks to
Omdia because the billboard is still up in Grafton. You know,
I still get people stopping and taking photos and sending
it to me, going.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Oh my god, it's still still there, and that's important.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
I mean, the we've progressed now from two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars to a five hundred thousand dollar reward.
It still says two hundred and fifty thousand on the poster,
but you know, that just shows you how long it's
been there. And I think it's amazing that it's just
still there after all this time and bringing awareness to
Mum's case.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
The podcast is called The Missing.
Speaker 5 (33:40):
Matter because in my world that has become my song.
You know, it's not just about my mum. My Mum
is Marian and Marian matters. This is not just about
my mum. This is about all the bes thing, and
so I'm hoping that by sharing my journey and my
experiences and my understanding of what I've had to go
(34:01):
through over the last twenty seven years. And my mum
is still a miss person. I still don't know where
she is. I still live with that ambiguous loss every
single day. But I want those people who are in
that space to know that they can reach out to us.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
They can talk to us anytime.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
We're not experts, we can certainly give you empathy and
care and kindness and an ear when you need it.
And their voices matter, you know. We're hoping that by
doing this we can bring more awareness to this space,
because the missing do matter, and we need to make
sure that their voices are heard and their stories are
out there for people to understand and learn about.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
In the next episode of The Missing.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Matter, you have to stop and think that the coroner
gives her findings. You actually get the findings document. There's
no instruction book, there's no care pack. You're left on
your own to work it out. I've tried to capture
these moments for you guys, so that you can actually
be with me while I'm actually going through that process.
(35:06):
I got to Medicare here at Green Slopes about two
hours and twenty minutes ago. I went up to the
counter and I said, look, I'm still waiting, and people
who came in after me were being say I am
just feeling extremely emotional and extremely stressed.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I swear to God, we must have knocked on the
wrong door. Oh we've gone to the wrong house. And
you know what else, what else?
Speaker 5 (35:30):
What else?
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Spa speA
Apodge production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Sally Leyden had the support of dozens of loved ones
as a coroner. Today confirmed what she's known all along.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Today I'll be delivering my findings in the inquest into
the disappearance and suspected death of Floribella Natalia Marion Ramical
known as Marion Barter, and who I'll be referring to
as Marian.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
That was New South Wales State Coroner Magistrate Teresa O'Sullivan
in a story that has more twists, turns and intrigue
than a thrillery to.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
A decision tonight, a lot of Australia's highest profile mysteries
that stretches from Queensland to Newself.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
More than half her life without her mum, and a
lengthy inquest.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
But tonight Sally Leyden has no answers. I can't comment
it time.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm sorry, unable to say where and unable to say
how about confirming the mother last seen at a Southport
best song.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It was a middle of winter.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Mother Marion Barton disappeared in nineteen ninety six. She'd been
dating mad Rick flu Live. She also found New South
Wales police bungled the missing person's investigation.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Coron has just told me officially my mum's deceased. So
that's the first time I've heard that in twenty seven years. Okay, well,
I'm a bit nervous to be honest. Welcome and thanks
everybody for jumping on and taking time to listen, because
people listening is actually what helps make a difference in
(01:35):
the case of a missing person, and the support of
the people is actually why I'm here today. And I've
got my trustee right hand woman sitting next to me,
Joony Condos.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Hello, Hello, Hello everybody.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
You've flown up from Melbourne to come and have a
chat with me and discuss what we've been doing.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
We've been pretty busy, haven't we.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Sure have the findings into my mum's inquest ended on
the twenty ninth of February last year, twenty twenty four.
I remember when they announced the date, I do and
I went, oh my god, it's a leap year.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Oh yes, you know.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
I was like that date's come around once every four years.
And it was a difficult time for me and for
you because well, yours time had sort of ended because
we'd both been gagged.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Right, I can't comment at this time. I'm sorry. We
use the word gagged.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
But you know, we'd signed documents with the coroner's court
to say that we would not talk about any of
the information discuss it with anybody, And at that point
I actually had to ask permission for Jonie to be
allowed to join me because I was struggling. Like we'd
gone from talking multiple times a day about the case
and about all the information and about what Joonie was
(02:50):
still finding and what I was finding and I was hearing,
and all of a sudden they told me I couldn't
talk to anybody. So the only person I was allowed
to talk to was my husband, Chris, and my kids.
Actually just Ella, Ella, that's a lot for her. This
is her grandmother and she's seeing her mum go through
huge stress, and she was very worried about me. And
the fact that we were both not able to talk
(03:11):
to anybody did cause a few problems because previously we
were very open and telling everybody everything, and then all
of a sudden, you and I were encapsulated into this
little hole by ourselves where we could not talk to
anybody that was to media, to the people that were
helping us, the super sluice, and people did get upset
with us because we weren't being as open as we
(03:32):
liked to be. I was in a contract with Channel
seven and that extended right up until a year after
the findings. So you know, it's only just been in
February this year that I've been openly allowed to talk
and tell everybody what we've been doing and what's been
happening behind the scenes.
Speaker 6 (03:50):
I mean, we sort of used the word gagged. We
did sign legal documents. It was because we were privy
to the brief of evidence that came from New South
Wales Police into the coroner. So therefore all of that
information and was in a very very difficult position because
you had a whole lot of information. You were working
(04:11):
with a media outlet who wanted that information for the podcast,
and it was very very tricky to be stuck in
the middle of the two pressures coming one from the left,
one from the right to try and ingest and digest
all that information that was in the brief of evidence,
and a lot of that stuff you hadn't even heard
before about your own mother.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Leading up to her trip an unbeknown to friends and family,
she had officially changed her name to the elaborate Flora
Bella Natalia Marion Ramakel returning to Australia later in the
year without contacting her loved ones. She made a series
of large cash withdrawals from her bank account before she
(04:54):
completely disappeared.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
In the weeks leading up to her disappearance, Marian was
seen with a tall male who was unknown to us
and to a family amateurs.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Sleuths were unleashed on the investigation trying to piece together
the Marion Barter mystery, and one of those sleuths made
a critical breakthrough linking Marion to a Belgian born convicted
con man by the name of Rick Blum. Blum confirmed
that he had been in a relationship with Barter in
(05:25):
the months before she disappeared.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
This evidence, along with his lies and deception throughout the inquest,
has convinced me that he does indeed no more than
he's saying.
Speaker 6 (05:35):
When Sally first initially applied for all the documents from
New South Wales Police, basically when it was printed out
it was just all black paper, so the redactions were
so massive that it was almost not even worthwhile even
going through the stress of trying to get the information.
So then to see those documents and see all the
(05:56):
redactions lifted off and to see that the reality was
underneath there. There really wasn't much so to come at
that point and to be able to have some kind
of outlet, I was outside of the family system. I
was sort of outside of Channel seven and the media
as well in a lot of ways. So to be
(06:17):
able to have that person, I think that was outside
of everything, that was interested across everything, and we could
banter backwards and forwards, I think was very good.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Well, I think it was a lifeline for me. Really,
you were a lifeline for me because I couldn't talk
to anybody. I started to have trust issues. I was
getting fed a lot of things. People were telling me things.
They were pretty crazy mentally, mind boggling things. And you
were a support person and a savior for me a
lot of things. And I think because you've got a
background in social work too, you were very understanding about
(06:52):
the facts that people coming to me with theories that
weren't proven or weren't factual, but just an idea based
on one.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Or two elements.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
And how hard that is for a family member to process,
because I process everything like you know, you tell me
something and I'm going to sit there and think about it.
You tell me my mum was burnt and put in
the back of a car, I'm going to start thinking
about that, and so I'm going to start processing that.
So you protected me in a lot of that realm
because people would comment, and you know, I think you've
(07:24):
always been very kind and polite to those people, because
everyone means well by their ideas and thoughts, but you know,
there is a back end to that of the person
who's receiving it. And the podcast grew phenomenally overnight, and
you know, launched us into this world of millions of
people who just want to help find my mum, which
(07:45):
was absolutely amazing.
Speaker 6 (07:47):
And I think, look, a lot of people were so
well intentioned and had amazing awesome skills as well, So
there was a lot of people there that were absolutely
excellent as web sleuths or researchers or people interested in
finding open source information. Was absolutely fantastic. But I think
this sort of tension was was because we had oversight
(08:11):
of all the documents that others couldn't see. From the
brief of evidence, we could immediately knock out some of
the possibilities that had come to us too from the
open source.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Knowing what we know what we couldn't share.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
That that was and you couldn't share it was difficult
because then the person would go away and do another
three four five days work on an aspect, and you're
sitting there thinking, if only I could let you know
this piece of information so you didn't kind of waste
your time in a way.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
So I'd be on the phone to you and I
would go actually going into territory I can't talk about okay,
and you'd go.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Okay, let's just cut it.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
Stand by now because we're not going to discuss it.
Because I was really paranoid about that. I was like,
I am going to do the right thing. I am
not talking to anybody about it. If I find myself
in that situation, I'm literally walking away. So we get
to the findings, and that week like, oh my god,
(09:14):
Chris's dad passed away on the Sunday, you know, and
this is hard for my kids. You know, my kids
had no grandmother, so both Chris's mom had passed away
and my mom was missing.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And then one of.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Their grandfathers passes away, and then we had to leave
them to come to Sydney, to come down for the
findings because I refused to bring them again.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I brought them down.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
As most people would know, the coroners had set a
date in twenty twenty two for the findings, and I
flew my entire family and Ella's partner, so there were
six of us. We got two rooms at the hotel.
We had to have a bigger car so we could
get us all around. We literally landed. I went to
visit my auntie on the way up to see my
(09:59):
dad quickly before the findings was happening the following day
and I got a phone call from my lawyer as
I'm walking around Coles and he said, oh, I'm just
letting you know that they've vacated. I said what does
that mean. He said, they've canceled it. And I said, well,
we're here. He goes, what You're in Sydney already, and
I like, yes, we've come down a couple like a
(10:20):
couple of days earlier to go and see my.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Dad and see honey Rob.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
And you know, he goes, oh my god, well, yeah,
they've just told me that they vacated. I said, well,
have they got a new date and he says no.
So I'm walking around Coles I've just looked at Chris
and went, oh my god, it's three weeks before Christmas.
We've just spent six thousand dollars to fly our family down,
(10:44):
get a car, a couple of nights accommodation in the city,
and no one told us that they canceled. Chris rings
Detective Inspector Nigel Warren and said, Nigel, we've just had
a phone call from the lawyers saying that it's been vacated.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
We're in Sydney. We've just flown down and dragged the.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Kids down to come to this and he said, did
no one tell you? We had a meeting last Thursday
and it was decided then that we were going to
do more investigation.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
The coroner wanted to vacate.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
And I said, so you knew on Thursday and that's Monday,
and no one told me that it was being paused, canceled, rescheduled.
I said, do we have a new date and he said, no,
we don't, and I remember.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm sure you do too. I do.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
We went into the city that night for dinner and
I was absolutely I was so mad.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I was upset. I was crying. I was like, I've
just prepared.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Myself that the corain is going to tell me my
mum is deceased, and trying to process that with my children.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And then I arrive in Sydney, we go through the rigmarole,
we go through the.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Cost and expense of it all, and we don't even
get told that they've canceled.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Mind you, they didn't.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Even to this date still they've never had an apology
to say we're really sorry that we failed to bring
you to advise you of that, would even ring my
lawyers and tell them they'd set aside that time for
the week as well. And you know, so there's just
really a lack of care when it comes to that
sort of thing. And I remember ringing you, and I'm
standing on the tram platform in the middle of near
(12:20):
Wynyard station and all the family are sitting there waiting
to get dinner.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
And you and I were pow wowing, and I was
beside myself.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
I was just so angry. I think I even saw
like red spots in front of my eyes because I
just I just thought to myself, you've got to be
kidding me. To me, it was the disrespect of not
only yourself, who can you know you're quite mabile, you
can go up and down, but your whole family and
your children having to process. And I put myself in
(12:53):
your position and thought if that was me with my husband,
with my son and having to tell my son, you know,
and get him ready, and you were trying to prepare
three of your.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Children for this.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
I looked at that and I thought, that is bureaucracy
gone mad, like that is a situation that just should
never have happened, because the coerennial process is actually meant
to be about the family and about providing answers to
the family.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
That's ultimately what.
Speaker 6 (13:20):
It's therefore, so the fact that you were not even informed,
I just shook my head like that was someone's job.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
I guess I'm a person who has to process everything.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I need to know what's happening.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
I need to know how it's going to go so
that I can prepare myself and I can actually be solid.
That's just who I'm programmed to be. And I had
organized and booked a table at Doyle's as a celebration
of life, and we kept that booking because we couldn't
change our flights.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
There were six of us we still had to stay.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
We still had to roll through the punches while we
were in Sydney even though it didn't happen, and going
to Doyle, so it just felt empty. I just felt like,
you know, we're here, Chris got COVID. It was just
a big fat mess, a big fat mess. And then
you know, then we had the flip side of them.
(14:16):
Vacating was quite good at the end of the day,
which I came to recognize because we ended up bringing
all of these witnesses to the table and that was
important and I was happy that that actually had started
to transpire because prior to that, they were like, nothing
to see here, move on. You know, these are the
two reasons while we're having the inquest. But I think
(14:37):
the coroner then saw that there was a purpose to
bringing these women who had also had dealings with reck
Blum in their life under multiple different names and aliases
and multiple different ways that he interacted with them. It
was important to hear their side of the story as well.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
It could talk in a way that every woman would
have lots of stories. Until I found out that well.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
You half fifths, we come to that week when it
actually did happen. Fast forward another eighteen months or however,
long it was. I can't remember now, it was quite
(15:25):
a long time. But the police obviously had to do
their investigation. They need to talk to international police, and
it was quite a convoluted kind of situation. But Brian
Chris's dad passes away on the Sunday. He was not
well Friday night and we were with friends for dinner,
and she's actually a theaterter, so Chris was sort of
talking to her and she's jumping on the phone to
(15:45):
Chris's brothers while we're at dinner, and very stressful, not
as very fun and full well knowing that the following Thursday,
we were going to the Fine Digs for my mum's inquest.
So we flew down and I was very touched by
the sentiment that Jackson, who is Ella's partner, they've been
together for five years, that his grandparents had actually gone
to a wedding down in Melbourne and they were on
(16:07):
their way back to Brisbane and they made the choice
to actually stop in Sydney and came with us to
the findings. And I felt like I had family with
me with them doing that, and you know, such beautiful
humans like I'm forever grateful to them. They're just amazing people,
and you know you got to meet them journey the.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Night before, right, Yeah, that's right. And we had a
couple of others join us.
Speaker 6 (16:32):
Yes, So there was myself, sal her family, and then
the wonderful Sherry and the two twins from Byron Bay
who were involved in the the Hayes case. So they
actually came all the way down for the findings. And
there was also a very special person there who we
didn't realize at the time would possibly be the last
(16:53):
time that you saw your friend who also visited.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:56):
So one of my really good friend's longest friend. You know,
we've been in his life and he's been in ours,
and he text me, I sit on, I'm in Sydney.
Can we catch up anyway, around eight point thirty he
sort of poked his head around the bar and looked
at me and then came.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Running over and gave me a big hug.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
That was my friend Rick, And it broke my heart
because the following Wednesday I got a phone call from
his ex partner telling me that he had died. So
I literally came home from the findings, had to fly
back down the following week to go to his funeral.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So that was chaos, absolute chaos.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Today, more than two decades since she vanished a coronial
inquest into Marion's disappearing.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Coroner O'Sullivan's somber conclusions in a court room in Lidcombe
in Sydney's West yesterday tied off some chapters in this
painful saga, but left the door ajar for the hunt
for Marion's killer.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Let's talk about the findings.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Let's talk about what happened at the findings, because that
was a pretty big day.
Speaker 6 (17:56):
As we're driving in, all I could see was green everywhere,
basically just to sea of green. People walking in, people
sitting down having coffee, all in green.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
And that's mum's favorite color, right, So yeah, I asked,
I asked everybody, everybody to wanted to come. I was
amazed how many people came just to see. It was
a sea of green, and it made me feel instantly comforted.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
There's lots of media there.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Sally laid it and had the support of dozens of
loved ones as a coroner. Today confirmed what she's known
all along.
Speaker 6 (18:30):
Yes, there was a lot of media there and I
think possibly my observation or opinion was that I think
it did catch the court a little bit unawares as well.
So when they all showed up and there was basically
like a sea.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
Of green walked down and he goes, what is going
on because the whole corridor was just full of us
and they were like, how are we going to fit
you all in? And then others actually had to go
into the overflow overflow.
Speaker 6 (18:56):
Yeah, that was just an absolutely awesome sight.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Power to the people. Marion matters, right, Marion matters, And
you better just know that people care about her.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Yeah, you know, not just me, now that millions of
people care about my mum and they want to know
what's happened to her.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yes, yeah, And that was incredibly powerful.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
I had an interaction with Chris with Nigel Warren again,
who now is the o I c the officer in
charge of mum's case, and we were chatting and I
said to him, so where are we at, you know,
what's happening and he pretty much said to me, well, Sally,
we've got eight hundred cases and we need to prioritize.
And then we got in there and the coroner actually
(19:38):
said that you know, she was not very happy with
New South Police and how they handled the case.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
She also found New South Wales police bungled the missing
person's investigation, recommending it now be referred to homicide detective and.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Pretty much said that, you know, due to your inaction
and not following procedure and the Commissioner's handbook properly because
remembering you know. For those that don't know, they actually
listed my mum as an occurrence only back in October
nineteen ninety seven. When I went into the police and said,
something's wrong. My mom's overseas and money's coming out of
(20:14):
her bank account in Byron Bay. She's missed my brother's
birthday and that's out of character. They marked her as
an occurrence only. And an occurrence only is if your
house gets broken into and someone steals your TV. That
is what an occurrence is, and they market as such
in the file and it said no action required. So
they had marked my mum as no action required until
(20:36):
the person is listed as missing and it was in
action due to other work priorities. That was the language
we saw a lot, wasn't it in all the documentation
that we had, And I was like, this is where
it really was grinding my gears because I was like,
my mom does matter, and she counts she's not a
lost puppy, she's a human being and she's missing, and
all her money's been taken, and all her jewelry, all
(20:57):
her belongings that were in that shipping container that have
never been located, artwork, you know, like why is this
not important? And I mean I had the problem where
I did the podcast and then they kept saying to me,
we hate the podcast, we hate the podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
The podcast is a big problem for.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
Us, and that caused problems as well going forward. But
I mean, you know, we came out of the court
and people were hugging me.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It wasn't celebratory.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
I wouldn't say that, but it was sort of like, okay,
it's almost like a line in the sand, like we've
gotten to this point. Their findings were quite solid, like
it was a lot to digest. It was nearly sixty pages,
I think, and we actually walked past another like a
one of the investigators that was part of the initial team.
She had found out that we were planning to go
(21:44):
overseas so she just said, I really hope you find something.
So that to me did take me aback from the
point of view that she was talking to a daughter
of a missing person, and another community member that had
been helping you, you know, for so many years. And
(22:08):
I actually suddenly thought to myself, Okay, we are literally
alone in this mission. And I thought to myself, too, Okay,
obviously that means that there's nothing that's actively being worked
on or else.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Why would that be said?
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Well, and then we left right and we walked everyone
sort of left, and I got pulled in with my
legal team for about ten minutes and had a private
chat to them.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
You know, this is the sneaky thing. We opened the
door and there was a media.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
The same woman that was actually in the court trying
to get me to talk to her was standing at
the door while I'm talking to the legal team, and
she's scurried down the pathway of the corridor as soon
as we opened the door, and I was like, do
not tell me. You were just standing there listening like
it was just such a bizarre day, you know. And
then to come downstairs and to see an absolute feel
(23:05):
of media standing there wanting to hear me talk and
I wasn't allowed to and we already had a plan
in place that I was just to walk past the media,
get in my car and drive around to a park
around the corner, and we told a few of the
people who had come to support me, and everyone sort
of just made their way around there. But you know,
(23:25):
even walking up to the car, I've got, you know,
someone throwing a microphone in my face asking me what
do I feel and what do I think? And I'm
just like, I'm really sorry, I can't talk to you.
I cannot a comment at this time.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Has this brought you any closure at all?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Do you miss your mum?
Speaker 5 (23:41):
What kind of question is that? Are you trying to
get an emotion out of me? Like I'm I'm a
person who's quite private with my emotion. I am strong,
but I'm also very sensitive, and I just like to
grieve in my own personal way, and I like to
do it in my own private way. I don't even
really do it in front of kids and Chris. I
(24:02):
just so that was pretty rough. And we went around
and Channel seven News was set up there and we
did a news report that night for the TV that night,
and I remember just being focused on the fact that
no one had apologized to me. I haven't even had
an apology. If I can put it, put it out there.
You know, I still haven't from the police had any
(24:22):
apology for how I've been treated. You know, I've just
been told my mum's deceased for the first time. It's
twenty six years and I've had to fight tooth and
nail to get people to listen to me. I had
to fight to it now for them to even say
she was missing, let alone that she's deceased. And then
they passed it over like I mean, the recommendation from
(24:43):
the coroner was that it goes to the unsolved homicide team,
which indicates to me, if it's a homicide, it's murder.
She has died by foul play of some description. Otherwise,
as we have spoken about before, she would have put
it back with the missing persons unit. There is a
very different line in the sand for that too. You're
(25:04):
either murdered or you're missing. And if she thinks that,
she would have put her with the missing person's unit,
but she put her with homicide unsolved homicide, And you know,
it was pretty heartbreaking to know that they had just
pretty much blink told me that she wasn't a priority
to them. You know, I think we got to the
end of doing the interview and Alison and Brian and
(25:25):
the Lady Vanisher's Channel seventeen had put the podcast into
a book format and that was getting released, I think,
and they were just sort of tidying up the last
episodes for that, and I just was left. I felt
like I was at a bit of a crossroads as
to what to do now.
Speaker 6 (26:03):
From my perspective, I guess we came out of the
court and for me, all I saw was pretty much
every single media outlet there in Australia, and I was
so excited and that's probably the wrong word, but to
actually have the ability to have all of those journalists
(26:23):
standing there that were going to be reporting on this
outcome and the potential images, photos, and I actually realized, oh,
you can't actually stand on the steps of the actual
building itself and talk to all of the media and
get your story out broader because that.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Is what we need.
Speaker 6 (26:44):
Oh no, because we're literally going to be whipped around
the corner into a park to miss out on that opportunity.
And look, I understand the rationale of why, but I
just felt very very upset about that.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
How do I feel? I don't actually know.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
Coron has just told me officially my mum deceased, So
that's the first time I've heard that in twenty seven years,
which is a long time. As you can appreciate, it's
hard enough when someone does die, but to not have
them in your world for such a long time and
not know and then get to the point where you
find out that they have died and we now need
to move to the next stage of what that involves
(27:23):
for me.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
I guess people could be kind of wondering sala like
why we're doing this here now in this space, and
I guess why they're not seeing like another episode ping
on their podcast apps from The Lady Vanishers, which did
(27:46):
an extraordinary job, an enormous amount of interviews, fantastic work,
picked it up from basically a story that was known
to you and your family but nobody else, and turned
it into an absolute juggernaut of a podcast in the
true crime world. I feel like it's kind of brave
(28:07):
that we're sitting here together in another studio doing something
a bit different. But I just wondered, Yeah, I guess
a lot of people would be asking and wondering why
we're here and while we're not with the Lady Vanishers
doing yet another episode, and.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
I definitely, I'm sure people are going to be asking
that question. And I was with Channel seven for six
years and gave them my everything, and they gave me
a huge amount back. It was amazing, It was stressful,
It was mind blowing some of the things that we
did together. And you know, Ran and I spent a
(28:46):
huge amount of time together, and I have huge respect
for him and for Allison for doing everything that they
did to help.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Project my story.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
When no one else was listening to me, Allison listened
and she sat with a coffee and she knew this
was a good story to tell, and she helped me
and brought Brian into the space and helped me tell well.
And look, Lady Vanishel's had fifty seven episodes, and a
lot of the episodes at the end there were sort
of looking into Rick Blum more predominantly than about my mum.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Who was the missing person.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
And I was actually finding out quite stressful that the
intro to the podcast was all about the daughter looking
for her missing mother and the daughter on a mission.
But then we're talking about Alona Reid and her children
and her ex partners and bringing them into the mix.
And I understand that that is an important side to
my mum's story. But I maybe made the suggestion of
(29:40):
perhaps doing a spinoff podcast that wasn't really about my mum,
Like the intro is all about Mary, but then it
was all about Reck Blum, and I was like, maybe
we should do a spinoff podcast that was sort of
more about Rick Blum and we could link them together.
And you know, that just wasn't going to work. To
be honest, I didn't know that that was going to
(30:01):
be the last episode. I heard it on the episode
whenever else did that that was going to be the
last one.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
This is the final episode of The Lady Vanishes, to
be fair.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
At that point in time, you know, Allison and Brian
had been busy doing other podcasts as well. They'd done
Shot in the Dark, which was really amazing and brought
attention to another victim. I felt like I had been
given a lot of their time and energy and effort,
and you know, potentially this was you know, we got
to an inquest, which is what I had always said
to them at the very beginning. I just wanted my
goal was to get to an inquest, and the inquest
(30:36):
had finished, so I understood the concept that you know,
maybe we'll wrap up the Lady Vanishers and they were
writing their book, they released the book. Yeah, you and
I just were left to go and work out what
we wanted to do. And that's how we got to
the last twelve months of what we've been doing. Like
when you and I decided that what we were going
to do this last twelve months, there was no chat about, hey,
(31:00):
let's go into our own podcast. We actually just I
just wanted to do it in my own quiet time,
go and find the information that we actually required. And
it was really the drive from the people following, going,
when are you going to tell us? How are you
going to tell us you should do a podcast? You
should do a podcast? And I was like, oh my goodness.
People actually still want to know what we're doing and
(31:21):
what's happening. So that's pretty much what's driven the concept
of us thinking and even considering doing something crazy like this.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
I'm really excited about this next phase in the journey
with sal Thank you to everybody that's followed along with
us over the years and for sticking with us. We
really hope that you do stick with us through this journey.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
It's been a whirl win of a year.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
And you know, in the next upcoming ten episode, you're
going to hear about every place we visited on our
you know, three weeks away, we went to six different countries.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
We did a.
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Search, which you know was a massive thing for me
to have to do mentally, and you know, we're going
to talk about that. And we did some live shows,
which was just an amazing experience for me personally, and
it showed me that people really care and wanted to
help project us into this space so that we could
(32:18):
actually go and do the research that still needed to
be done. And I just I want to do a
shout out as well to oh Media because one of
the big bosses there was listening to the podcast and
actually reached out to her quite some years ago and
asked if we could do a billboard, and she came
to the party and we had a double sided, both
sides of the road billboard for Mum down in Grafton,
(32:41):
and we did actually have one of those electronic billboards
inside the shopping center at Lismore too. But I remember
the floods happened just shortly after that and they all
went underwater, and I was having dreams about Mum's poster
floating down in the water, like it was just horrendous.
Like I know that sounds weird for some people to think,
but I was like, oh my gosh, like I've just
(33:01):
finally got to this stage of having some really good
pubblicity in that space where.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I know she was in that backyard.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
And you know, I just wanted to say thanks to
Omdia because the billboard is still up in Grafton. You know,
I still get people stopping and taking photos and sending
it to me, going.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Oh my god, it's still still there, and that's important.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
I mean, the we've progressed now from two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars to a five hundred thousand dollar reward.
It still says two hundred and fifty thousand on the poster,
but you know, that just shows you how long it's
been there. And I think it's amazing that it's just
still there after all this time and bringing awareness to
Mum's case.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
The podcast is called The Missing.
Speaker 5 (33:40):
Matter because in my world that has become my song.
You know, it's not just about my mum. My Mum
is Marian and Marian matters. This is not just about
my mum. This is about all the bes thing, and
so I'm hoping that by sharing my journey and my
experiences and my understanding of what I've had to go
(34:01):
through over the last twenty seven years. And my mum
is still a miss person. I still don't know where
she is. I still live with that ambiguous loss every
single day. But I want those people who are in
that space to know that they can reach out to us.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
They can talk to us anytime.
Speaker 5 (34:19):
We're not experts, we can certainly give you empathy and
care and kindness and an ear when you need it.
And their voices matter, you know. We're hoping that by
doing this we can bring more awareness to this space,
because the missing do matter, and we need to make
sure that their voices are heard and their stories are
out there for people to understand and learn about.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
In the next episode of The Missing.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Matter, you have to stop and think that the coroner
gives her findings. You actually get the findings document. There's
no instruction book, there's no care pack. You're left on
your own to work it out. I've tried to capture
these moments for you guys, so that you can actually
be with me while I'm actually going through that process.
(35:06):
I got to Medicare here at Green Slopes about two
hours and twenty minutes ago. I went up to the
counter and I said, look, I'm still waiting, and people
who came in after me were being say I am
just feeling extremely emotional and extremely stressed.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I swear to God, we must have knocked on the
wrong door. Oh we've gone to the wrong house. And
you know what else, what else?
Speaker 5 (35:30):
What else?
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Spa speA
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