June 22, 2025 • 48 mins
Sally and Joni head to Brussels on a mission to follow one of the strangest leads in the case: a mysterious coin cabinet inside Belgium’s Royal Library. As they dig through archives, flea markets, and fragile connections to Rick Blum’s past, they begin to uncover more about his aliases, his dealings, and possible links to stolen coins and foreign bank accounts. But a visit with one of his former victims — and a quiet moment of compassion — reminds them why they’re really here.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apodja Production.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome back everybody. We're now at episode seven where we're
going to take you with us to Brussels. Jonie's with me,
but we're a little bit distant today. She's down in
Victoria and coming into us life while I'm here in
the studio in Brisbane. How are you going, Jony?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Good?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good? Here we are and look, I remember Brussels so well.
It was such a big part of the trip for us,
and we did so many things and we're in such
a rush to try and fill in all the gaps
that we needed to do while we were there. But
it began with us getting off the train we were
coming in from Amsterdam. Yeah, this is pretty hard for us.
(00:59):
This is not easy. We're bouncing in and out of
countries every two days. We've got lack of sleep. Journey
hasn't been feeling well. She was really unwell, so she
ended up in bed all day yesterday and I went
out and did all of the coin dealers and the
flea market and everything that we had planned, which I'm
sure was pretty hard for you because you really wanted
to do that, and we'd had big discussions about how
(01:21):
we were going to manage that and I wasn't even
going to go in because we didn't want to talk
about the missing person side of things. We were just
trying to focus on the coin dealing side of.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Things, getting accounts just.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
For what it's worth.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You can't get that stuff at home, you know. Unless
I'm walking in and talking to the actual coin dealers
here in Amsterdam. They won't answer you. They don't talk
to women. For a start, that.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
You've got, you know, fifty thousand euro worth of coin
that you want to sell from the Australia, they're not interested.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Yeah, so we needed to come.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Here in order to face them face to face.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
No, no one else is going to do it.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
No one else is doing it.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And people might question as to why that's important. And
the main focus of going to the coin dealers was
to see if they could confirm for us if we
didn't need them to tell us the details. We just
needed to know yes or no as to whether he
had a foreign bank account that he was trading with
with those people, because you know, my mum's money, will
(02:16):
know sh in their police report that the money was
transferred electronically, potentially to an overseas account to start a
new life with her new partner. So where is that
account and what was it about and who owned it
because it didn't certainly didn't go into her bank account.
So if we can find that information, and you know,
you have to be here, it's boots on the ground.
(02:37):
You can't do this over the phone. You can't do
it over email. We have to physically come here. And
this is not fun. You know, it's Darcy's birthday today.
I should be at home hanging out with my twenty
year old and celebrating, having their birthday cake and going
out for dinner with the rest of my family. But
I'm here. It's going to be Jonie's birthday. You know
she would should be doing the same with Ethan and
(02:57):
her Chris. No problem, okay, thank you. How far how
far away is it do you think?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Okay, yes, okay, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's going to be difficult with the suitcases, but anyway,
give it a crack. When we got off, it seriously
felt like they were herding cattle. They literally had hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of people and pulling us all
into one narrow doorway where they had guards with guns
(03:33):
and all sorts of craziness. But the other thing that
stood out to me was there was no checks at
the border, so we were literally bouncing in and out
of the countries and no one was checking our passports,
no one was checking who we were. And it sort
of really sung home to me about how easy that
is to do over there. I mean, obviously in Australia
we can bounce from state to state and we don't
(03:54):
have border control checking our passports and things like that.
But I would have thought over in different countries that
might have been the case. But what do you think
about that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
It's just the absolute difficulty. Like if I think back
to nineteen ninety seven when your mum was planning her
overseas trip to move from the UK into Europe and
then from there, she was unless she actually phoned you
or told you or sent you a card with information
on it, she was literally able to just navigate her
(04:26):
way around wherever she wanted to go to and frowing wherever.
And so to me, that in itself, does you know,
potentially pose risks if she's not communicating with you. You know,
when she said she's going to have a break, now
she's going to do her you know, do her thing
and not be communicating anywhere near as much. I think
(04:47):
that is very risky, isn't it if you if you're
not actually being checked as you're going in and out
of the different country.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
We just don't know where she was, and there was
literally no chance to even back then, there was no
chance to actually work out where she'd been. Like regardless
of the twenty six seven years it is now, it
makes no difference. Okay, so we've just arrived in Brussels,
early start, late train delayed by about an hour in total,
(05:19):
What a debarcle that was coming through trying to get
off the train, joy debacle, total debarkle.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
It was an absolute funnel.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
So you had how many people.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
There, three hundred four hundred people trying to get through
and trying to get us in the single line, single line,
but for no reason, no checking your past.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Checking nothing, which we knew anyway because of the machine
and agreement. But it just kind of struck me as
I was standing there in that line that you know,
no one's checked anything. So realistically, that's he could have
just flown into as stand, Netherlands, jumped on a train
here and been into Belgium with no checks whatsoever. I mean,
(06:00):
he could have bought that to get under any name.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, because no one's checking. Oh no, it's going to
match your passports. You want to put your passport in.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, Ry Cooper said he had like literally a bag
full of sports. Yeah, so he just purchase takes one
out under another name. Even if he is bad from Belgium,
he could be in here easy, not a problem.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
But who's actually checking?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
So a very interesting triggering, i'd say, entry into his
home country.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
We are ready to roll tomorrow afternoon. I'm actually really
looking forward to just going and seeing Glaine.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
See how she's come up too, like after their whole yeah,
seeing in the inquest and everything.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
She turned ninety in August.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
It hasn't been a hard end of life to her
thanks to allegedly ascertain someone.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
So we're going there for aftening tea and then we'll
leave them while they set up because they're having a
piano concert which we've been invited to go to, so
it'll be nice just to meet them in person. And
Alexandra Piramurm is putting that on us, which is very kind.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
So the Royal Library of Brussels, just remembering that andre
Plum's son in law worked here and also where the
coin cabinet is, which is where allegedly a certain person
would meet other people looking at how much their coins
were worth, and the history of coins, etc. So this
(07:28):
is quite a crucial little location for the whole story.
And just remembering Marian today, she's not lost in all
of this stuff, and hoping we get some evidence today
that we can use back in Australia.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Okay, So we ended up going to the KBR. That
was one of the main things we wanted to do
in Brussels. Do you want to tell everyone what that
stands for?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So the KBR, and I'm going to be looking down
as I say this. It's a contraction of two names
in two different languages, so it's said conincla BiblioTech and
BiblioTech Royale. So in the past a number of different
names have been used to denote it. So there was
(08:14):
sort of like a backwards and forwards about who was
going to have the control of the KBR between all
the different nationalities that were living in Belgium at the time.
They cleared it up by combining the Dutch and the French,
and so it's now called KBR, but it's basically the
Royal Library of Belgium, and as we know, we knew
(08:38):
of a couple of people that actually worked there that
formed part of your mum's story as well.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So what I learned going to the KBR was there
is a place there within it called the coin Cabinet,
and that spiked our interest, didn't it.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
It did feature obviously within Rick Bloom's testimony. He did
state that he'd been there on a number of occasions,
and also with the Andre Flum story, so that is
where he said that he met Andre Flum's son in law,
Pierre du So. Pierre Drew worked at the library and
(09:20):
that's where he said he met him as well. So
the coin library, we have heard from various people unsubstantiated
information that Rick Bloom would sit outside the hallway of
the coin Cabinet and basically speak to people as they
came in and out with their collections with an interest
(09:41):
to selling or assessing or again very much unsubstantiated, but
that did come from a number of people they had
seen him do that.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And so the coin Cabinet itself is a public numismatic
collection established back in the eighteen hundreds, and that it
now holds coins and medals and is the department of
the Royal Library of Belgium.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
We've got a booking for the reading room, just to
look at some material from Australia.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yes, before the wedding room, you need to take.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
One membership yes, yes, yes, one moment.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Yes, thank you, because that's all payments in eighteen years.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Ye have thought.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
There's a two of us guy lead.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
So do you need a sales idea as well? Yes, yeah,
I've got a case person.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
One of the things we found was tricky when trying
to organize when we were going to go to certain
places was that whilst we were traveling, we obviously had
weekends in amongst the weeks, and that meant that we
had to really work out how long we were going
to be in each place during work hours. You know,
(11:07):
we had to make good use of our time and
therefore pick things that we could do on weekends like
flea markets, etc. Around other things that we needed to
do that were open only in business hours. Some things
like libraries, for example, are open on weekends, but some
of the people we wanted to speak to were only
working Monday to Friday. So we really had to do
(11:29):
the nitty gritty and make sure that we were making
the most of our time there. I also wanted to
say that what we were doing while we were there.
I guess became a little bit paranoid about posting where
we were at any given time, because I had it
in my head that I didn't really want people knowing
exactly where we were. So when we were posting home
(11:51):
or on socials to say, hey, we're in Amsterdam, we'd
already left Amsterdam. We were in Brussels at this point,
because we just didn't know. We had two chicks bouncing
in and out of countries again, just protecting ourselves and
making sure that no one really where we were at
any given time except our families. It's a very strange thing,
I guess, should be doing this type of investigation in
(12:12):
a foreign country, speaking different languages and places we've never
been before. We rock up to the library, We speak
to a lady at the front desk at KBR and
tell her why we're there. You know.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Who worked here?
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Many many names, the same person, same person.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
Uses many names.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Do you speak English, same same same person? Yes, yes, yes,
so this is him now he's from Belgium.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
He's from torn.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Tall live That's why we're in Australia because we're going
to use look at some of your collections to try
to find.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
More information on them.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Ask you around maybe other people know, yeah, and then
you can contact us here or you can contact.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Here as well.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah yeah, if you need if you find any information,
because there's like a lot of money as a reward
in Australia. There's half a million dollars up for reward
information a million euro.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
We've always done our best to keep people's identity confidential.
It's been something that we've really prided ourselves on our
feel like, I think that with the amount of people
that have come forward to us that have really actually
trusted us to keep their information private and also their identity.
You'll just see that sometimes in this podcast people's names
(13:52):
will be bleaked out to disguise them and their identity.
Another important find Joanie made was a letter that a
lady by the name of Andre flow May had written
to the Queensland Governor, which was dated the twenty sixth
of July twenty ten. Now, Andre actually got up at
(14:13):
three am Portugal time in Spain to give evidence at
my mum's inquest in May twenty twenty three. In February
twenty twenty one. After learning the identity of Frederick Deheadavery
at that stage, I just went through all of the
archives around Australia and one thing that did ping was
a Frederick Deheadavvery in the Queensland archives. So there was
(14:36):
a letter in there that was sent to the Governor
of Queensland at the time. There was enough in there
to see that spelled out his name, and that spelt
out andre Flum's name. Mister Bloom actually stated when asked
about her at the inquest that she had dementia, was
in a wheelchair and couldn't put two words together. So
(14:57):
that was his account of when he took the coins
from her in twenty ten. That was how he said
that she was entered to him, which is quite interesting.
From there, when mister Bloom was asked who he sent
the envelope back to, he said that he sent it
to her son in law, whose name was Pierre du
(15:19):
I thought to myself, okay, well, if we can find him,
then maybe he might be able to shed a bit
more light on this whole situation, and so I found
out that he was actually a tenor for concerts, opera
and Operetta. I then found a Facebook page that was
dedicated to his work, and I saw that it did
(15:39):
stop abruptly, and I had to look through all all
of the comments, and I actually found that someone had
written farewell Pierre, and then I saw who actually liked it,
and it was one of his children, because they had
he had the same name. So look, Andre was never
actually contacted by Australian officials. She wasn't contacted to give
(16:02):
her witness statement the inquest, and I think, you know,
perhaps it may have been because she was well. Rick
Bloom had said at that stage she was eighty when
she actually sold the coin collection, so was there potentially
an assumption there that she was too old she would
have been deceased by then, especially based on his description
(16:22):
of her at that time. So mister Bloom allegedly lied
at the inquest in relation to your marm or Marion's
case when he claimed that he did return the coins,
because interestingly enough, Missus Flumm actually got on to the
stand and within her testimony stated that yes she did
(16:45):
receive some back within the express post envelope, but not
all and all the high value coins. She stated on
record she did not receive them back and so therefore
she had very very few, she said, of no value
coins that came back to her in the envelope.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I remember actually New so Wales police asking me how
that they can get in contact with andre Flamy being
that the information they didn't hold the information. It was
just a very awkward time in that realm, and I
actually don't think Rick Blum had any expectation at that
(17:26):
juncture that Andre Flammy would be presenting on the stand
giving evidence at my mum's inquest about her interactions with
Rick Blum. It was an interesting time listening to her
because the questions were put to her all about the
allegations of what Rick Blum had said, that she was
(17:49):
a mute and that she had Alzheimer's and that she
was in a wheelchair. I remember her laughing when Adam
Casseleden was asking those questions to her, saying are you
in a wheelchair? Do you have Ourzheimer's? And it was
very clear at that point that that was not the
case at all, and she was firm state of mind
to be able to answer the questions and give her evidence,
(18:13):
even though it was three am in the morning in Portugal,
and she got up to testify, which was amazing. We
get up pretty early this morning and we worked out
that there was a flea market. Now I'm again not
great on pronunciation, so marshi pearce is how I think
(18:36):
it's pronounced. One of the things that I remember walking
down there actually was there was a street and out
the front of all the houses you just literally it's
all concrete, so no grass. It was literally just the
road and then a pathway and then the front door,
and out the front of the door were these tiny,
(18:56):
tiny little plarks, and I stopped to read what they were,
and it was quite upsetting, especially because we'd just been
to an Frank's how as well, and these plaques were
actually identities of people who lived in that house who
were taken to Outfitz and how they died, and the
(19:16):
dates and things like that from when they were born
to when they were taken and what they died from.
So I felt so sad that I was walking in
the footsteps of people who experienced such sadness, but at
the same time nice to recognize that it was a
nice tribute to those people. So we arrive at the
flea market finally to a sea of stalls selling everything
(19:38):
from artwork, jewelry and coins. So why was this particular
flea market important, Well, we had.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Heard from a number of people over the years, because
this would have been the closest one to where he lived.
We had heard from a number of people that this
was somewhere that he frequented and had a look through,
especially for coins, antiques, knickknacks. I mean, as we saw
going in there, there was all that and more, wasn't there.
(20:07):
That was why we went there, just to see whether
there was anyone there, and I was quite interested. It
was the same kind of thing as the Lismore, nor
Then New South Wales flea market.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Hello, won Joel, A.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Question for you.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, do you know you know this man? I don't know,
you don't know?
Speaker 7 (20:28):
I know?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Good ah.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Ah, okay, messy missy. Do you know the name Frederic
ahead of very Willy Wooters?
Speaker 8 (20:39):
No?
Speaker 7 (20:39):
No, nobody from what did you.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Excuse him?
Speaker 4 (20:46):
What course?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Do you know this man.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Frederic ahead of very Willy Wooters. No, that's okay, messy, missy.
I personally think that with a few of them there
was a little flicker of recognition. I can't base that
on anything. I don't have any evidence whatsoever, but I
(21:13):
just got the impression that there could have been a
few there that may have recognized but certainly everyone denied
knowing him and not recognizing his images or anything of
that nature.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
That afternoon we had been invited to go to afternoon
tea at Alexandra Pera Boom's home. Alexandra is the daughter
in law of the beautiful Galaene and we finally got
to meet Gleene and give her a massive hug. I
was probably the highlight for me being able to meet
(21:51):
her and say thank you for being brave and what
a gentle soul she was. When we chatted for hours,
we were holding hands at the table. One of our
lovely followers had made Galaene a shawl. She had made
a shawl and she'd sent it to me and wrote
Gleen a beautiful little card and said to me, when
you go over there, would you please give it to her.
(22:13):
I wanted to give her something as well from us
here in Australia, so I went to Country Road and
I bought her a pink alpacker scarf and yeah, I
just wanted her to think about it every time she
props it on keep so warm and she can think
of it as a big hug from all of us
here in Australia. I was just sad watching her on
the Channel seven interview and she mentioned that she needed
(22:36):
to borrow clothes from her friends when it just really
broke my heart after as she knew him to be
Frederick de Heaviderry. She said that, you know, allegedly he
had stolen all her life savings. So I wanted to
bring her something warm, let her think that every time
she wears it, we're giving her a big hug from Australia.
(22:58):
I'm Sally, Hello, my love, how are you wanted to
give you big hug?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
That's from everyone in Australia.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Everyone wants me to come and say hello and give
you a big hug and tell you that we all
love you.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
I said to you, I am happy.
Speaker 9 (23:18):
Because I'm still living.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I'm happy to.
Speaker 7 (23:23):
Meet me.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yes, I'm happy you are living too.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I'm very happy.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
I brought you a gift for your birthday. A lady
who has been listening to my podcast. Yes, so she
made you something as well as a gift, and it's
made with gum leaves from Australia and I thought you could,
and it was the color would look good on you.
(23:49):
I wanted to give you something warm. So this is
from me, but from everybody. So it's a scar that's
our packer. Thank you, You're very welcome, Thank you very much.
It's a pleasure. So we were having a big chat
(24:11):
with Glaine about obviously Rick Blum, because he's the connector
in this story to how I've become aware of Glaine
and with me as well, I guess. And as we
were chatting, I was telling her, you know that for
me personally, her story is the closest to my mum,
but in reverse. So we've got lots of similarities there
(24:35):
that have come up in evidence for my mum and
for Glaine, both of them having live a function tests,
both of them talking and discussing about tea chests and
sending them overseas one way or the other, and going
overseas to start a new life. They are all things
that you know, obviously mum starting a new life. We
(24:57):
didn't know that, right, but that's what Glaine has told us.
Was the intention with her and Frederick de HEAVDERI. She
was telling us about the fact that Rick Blum had
allegedly explained to her that he was a big bank
mogul and had this massive house in Sydney, that he was,
you know, sad because it was an empty house, and
how he needed to fill it with love, and that
(25:19):
he would set up bank accounts for her children for
her to give him the money so that he could
actually go and set up those bank accounts for her children.
And you know, hearing her say do you know what
he did to me? Was quite heartbreaking because you could
hear it in her voice.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
And do you know what he said to me?
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Can you tell me?
Speaker 9 (25:42):
So quickly understood that for me my children because I
loved my husband, because with my husband.
Speaker 6 (25:59):
Not to go like that, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (26:05):
And he say, yes, I open an com bog.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
For your children in Australia. Yes, yeah, I remember you
saying that. And probably the big bombshell for me was
when I was going through the similarities, I said to her,
you know, the only thing really that doesn't match is
that you didn't change your name. My mum changed her
(26:33):
name to Florabella Ramagirl. It started a flurry amongst the
three of them, didn't it journey like? Did you know
that he wanted her to change her name when she
got to Sydney, and I think Glaine's son actually was
talking a fair bit about it to us at the table,
and how he referenced that her name being Glaine d'armois
(26:54):
du Bois. He used to sit there and actually tease her,
calling her Debush, and it was said to us that
it was kind of like arogative. Glaine told us that
the intention was that when she moved to Sydney, that
he had told her that you will have to change
your name, and we will be changing your name to
the Bush.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Maybe you already know that she's called Dubois, and you
know he called her.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
When we will we will go in in Australia and
you will change your name it will be.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Bush because oh I didn't know that, so he was
using the same.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
It was just.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Maybe it was just an idea.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Anytime he was calling her, he was always doing that Bush. Really,
I suppose, yeah, right, like with a tone and a
bit of a look. That spins me out, because as
I said to them, if you move in countries and
(28:16):
you then get there and change your name, it's very
hard for your family to find you if they don't
know the new name.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
But when we actually went and sat down and she said, no,
actually he wanted me to change my name to that name.
That is when I thought, oh, okay, because obviously, coming
from Australia, we understand the bush meaning the bush is
out in the bush, out in the mountains, out in
the forest, and that was sort of like a teasing
(28:44):
or you know, a silly joke. But when we realized that,
oh okay, you actually were being told asked to change
your name, yeah, that for me was I was quite
taken aback by that actually at the time.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So it's probably a point in time to add another
bit of information that has come to light. Most people
will know. I have become quite close with Janet Oldenburg
and we've gone out for coffees, and I took her
out for lunch for Christmas last year. We were just
sitting there and Janet hadn't been very well, but she
(29:24):
was doing a lot of wellness health wellness within herself,
and we were talking more about that and she sort
of stopped and just randomly said to me, oh, there's
something I probably should have told the police. And I said, oh,
what are you talking about? And she said, oh, well,
when I was in BALI with him. He got me
(29:45):
to write two letters to my family that said that
I didn't want anything to do with them. And I
just looked at her and thought, okay, And she said, yeah,
I probably should have told the police that that's probably important.
And this is like I felt bad for her because
I could see she was pretty stressed about it. And
I said, look, you know, sometimes I know myself, when
(30:08):
people are interviewing you and asking you questions, you tend
to answer the questions that are being asked of you.
You don't sort of have an opportunity per se to
just verbally speak openly a bit like what we were
just talking about with Glaine and the name changed. Like
unless you ask the question, they're generally probably not going
to bring it up, right, They're just going to be
(30:28):
answering the questions that you're asking them. Anyway, fast forward
into this year and I rang Janet and I said, look,
you know what you told me last year. I think
that's really important. I think I should give that to
the police. Are you okay? If I record this conversation,
I can give it to the homicide detectives and just
so that they know, so that they have the information
available to them, and she was like, yes, yes, of course,
(30:50):
I don't feel one hundred percent, but you know if
you want to. I said, well, you let me know
when it's a good time. She said, oh, text me back,
and she said, now now it's good. Now it's good.
So I rang her back and I recorded the conversation
with her, and we chatted and she filled me in.
Speaker 6 (31:04):
I just wanted to ask you again because when we
went for lunch, you were telling me about when you
were in Bali with him and how you'd remembered something
that you probably should have told the police, but they
didn't ask you the right.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Question for you to remember to say what you told me.
But do you remember what that was without me telling you?
Speaker 10 (31:25):
Gosh not At the moment, I've been so ensconced with
this problem.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
I'm just it's a bit full, and I don't want
to put any pressure on you. It was about Rick
Blum making you write a letter when you're in Bali.
Speaker 10 (31:41):
Yeah, yeah, And it was about not being in touch
with my family and stuff like that. But he had
all that stuff and he made me write out another one.
He said, oh, your writing is different, so.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Tell me a little bit about that. Just so I
can let the homicide team know because that's a very
important part of it, which I wish they'd asked you
that question.
Speaker 10 (32:02):
Gosh, it was a bad not have any anything to
do with my family. We were living over we're going
to live overseas and all this.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
You told me when we were chatting about it that
you had to write it twice.
Speaker 10 (32:18):
Yeah, I had to do that twice, but it was
there was more into it, but I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
And then he took the letters from you, and you
didn't know what happened to them, That's right, I don't know.
I've since passed that information onto the homicide detectives. And unfortunately,
my friend Janet passed away on Friday, the thirtieth of May.
She was actually at the same hospital my dad was
(32:44):
at when he broke his jaw in three places after
having a fall in his care facility. So I was
going and seeing them on the daily, being that she
was upstairs as well. She was downstairs, Dad was upstairs.
And it's her funeral tomorrow, so pretty sad time for me.
I became quite close to her. Happened very quickly and
(33:06):
very fast, but you know, the last conversation I had
with the detectives was oh, well, can we get somebody
in there to go and talk to Janet because we'll
probably need to get her to tell us herself. And
I said, well, I'm not sure I want you to
do that because she's not well and she's in hospital now,
so you know, it doesn't matter. At the end of
the day, it doesn't matter. She matters more to me
(33:26):
than her giving evidence about something so sad time in life.
As our journey progressed, we walked in back from Galaan's
and the restaurant downstairs was absolutely chockers and I thought,
oh gosh, it must be good if there's so many
(33:48):
people here. I went up to the lady at the desk,
I said, any chance we can get a table for two,
and she said, yes, yes, absolutely, come and sit down.
I've got a table for you. So, to our surprise,
we actually managed to grab a table and have something
to eat. And I just had gone up to the
canter or concierge and I just spoke to the gentleman.
I said, listen, we've got a problem in our room
(34:10):
where the window isn't shutting properly, so it's freezing cold
and we can hear everything. Is there any chance we
could move to a different room? And I said, look,
we're just going to have some dinner. Maybe if you
could have a player and see if there's anything available
and let us know. And he said, come and see
me when you finished. I've got a room you can
(34:30):
go to. So we finish our dinner and we walk
up to the room and he's explained to us that
the room that he can offer us is one bed.
So in our room that we were in we had
two separate beds and we were in singles. We had
to share a double bed. So he said, look, here's
the key. So we went for a walk, didn't we journey?
(34:52):
We did.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
We got into the lift and we went downstairs and
as the doors opened, what did we experience?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Smoke?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Smoke, smoke.
Speaker 7 (35:03):
Block you go first, okay, okay, don't set the alarms off, like,
oh my.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
God, a light?
Speaker 7 (35:27):
Where did I book a stoney?
Speaker 6 (35:30):
What is this in here?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
It's a it's a cold tower and it's hidden.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
It is a cool one.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Sure what it was with the length under the table
out there, the legs under the table. Maybe it was
a brothel.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
We didn't know. We're from Australia from Love Made.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
We're staying in the hotel and they it's all the
smoke out there, and we were worried about where we
were going. Do we need a reservation?
Speaker 6 (36:05):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
It's now Monday, the fourteenth of October, and we planned
to return to the Royal Library of Brussels and we'd
made a connection there with a gentleman who was the
conservator muten of the coin Cabinet. So we checked out
of our hotel. We stored all our luggage at concierge
(36:29):
before making another dash in the rain up to the library. Joey,
the pebbles on the road very slippery. Oh yeah, and
it literally had rained every day we'd been away so far.
So we make our way up to the top of
the hill the KBR to meet and chat with this
new friend of ours, and we walk into the coin cabinet.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
He was great, wasn't he? Like he really did. He
was quite open, Like I don't know what you felt,
but I sort of felt a little bit awkward, you know,
because I had not really explaining to him anything at
all about the situation. So I remember walking in in
his Oh, so, what would you like to see within
the coin cabinet. So having to again just say that
(37:11):
people are kind of aware like me and sale having
to make these giant leaps with people going from yes,
we're here to see coins to can we sit down
with you and let's tell you a whole scenario where
you may have information that might help us. It's quite
a big leap to make, I think. So he just
(37:33):
openly listened to us. He just listened to the situation.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Took us on a tour as well. He explained to
us about how there's been a lot of fraudulent activity
through the coin cabinet over the years where people would
come in and they would literally swap out coins. From
what I gathered, like people would walk in. Therefore, everything
and now is under huge lock and key. You have
to make appointments, everyone signed in. There's no just general
(38:00):
walking in and helping yourself and swapping something out. But
that has happened in the past and they have had
experiences with that. He was going to some big meeting
where a lot of the big cooin people were coming.
Is that right, that's right. He was going to ask
some questions. Has he come back to you about that?
Since we've got.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Back, he has He said that nobody knew mister Bloom
and that is interesting because I do have a number
of dealers on records stating that they did do business
with him. So again it could just be people being polite,
people not wanting to get involved. Is a different name,
(38:39):
you know, this is the quite well, that's the thing.
I mean, how many different names. And also you do
need to be aware too. So we have one dealer
that has stated, you know, in an email to me
that Gilaine did actually go in and requests catalogs, so
that is on their file. So whenever anyone requests a catalog,
they have to give their ID and so it was
(39:03):
actually noted down that she did do that and the
date and everything obviously from a sales point of view.
So he explained to me that it's so that because
someone's gotten a physical catalog, so they can follow up
with that person. You know, did you want to purchase
anything from the catalog that we gave you last week?
Speaker 2 (39:21):
For example? And he also did Elson's Yeah, that was Alson's, Yeah,
the biggest dealer in Belgium, that's all right, and then
also Charlotte as well, so she actually did purchase coins
from Elson so they have got those all that purchase information.
So again that that is another purchase that was made.
(39:45):
As you said, who is the purchaser and who ultimately
gets the coin at the end is the question, isn't
it really? So there is actually a warning in the
files of the International Association of Professional Neumattisks. I can
never say that word IPAN, so I actually contacted them
(40:06):
and they wrote back to me saying that they have
got a warning.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
It's for a mister r our West. So again Richard
Lloyd West, one of Rick Bloom's aliases, noting his address,
and interestingly enough his address was a post office box
in Ballina or Luxembourg. So again we have Luxembourg mentioned,
(40:32):
which seems to be the theme throughout the years, and
that was for a non payment in June nineteen ninety six.
So if you think about that again, that is twelve
months before your mum is writing on her incoming and
outgoing passenger cards Luxembourg.
Speaker 7 (40:49):
From Australia Prorostaria miss a long trip.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Lazy as basically here and this the coin cabinet.
Speaker 8 (41:16):
It's actually quite central to a story about a Belgian man.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
He's eighty four years of age now but he moved
to Australia. He was a Santin coined feeler and collector
in Belgium. His name is Frederick Head a very yes.
Speaker 5 (41:37):
Yes, so he bought and sold a lot with Jim
Nobles from Nobles in Mathematics from Australia, Yes yes, and
Alison down.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
So the reason for our visit is that he is
actually was in court for Sally's.
Speaker 8 (41:56):
Mother is a missing person. The reason why we've come
to see today is because we're trying to locate other
people in Belgium.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
And one thing he said on the standing core that
in the.
Speaker 8 (42:12):
Report is that he would come here and he would
sit in a cafeteria or in one of the waiting areas,
and he would approach people as they came and went,
asking about what their coins were.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So we leave his office. We've taken up probably I
don't know, about an hour and a half of his time.
I say to Jonny, I'm just going to go to
the bathroom anyway. So I go into the bathroom. There's
no one in there. I get in there and the
door handle doesn't open. So I'm turning the handle and
it's just turning loosely. I can't actually physically get the
(42:51):
door open. I am locking a toilet, the door handles working,
and I can't get out. Okay, okay, find me.
Speaker 7 (43:08):
And you let me leave me in here.
Speaker 6 (43:14):
That is dangerous.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
I was having a heart attack. I had to start
recording myself, baby, and I've bought it to months another.
I did shirts, but something's happened, and you were going
to leave me in there.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
You're not fine, and I just I just called that
on camera. I was decided, she's going to leave me
in there? Everybody, can you believe that? So Johnny knows
all too well that when I get a b in
my bonnet, I keep going till I find the answers.
And Johnny, you are a bit the same. And hence,
while we probably get on so well, I would say.
(43:52):
But a little while back, whilst the inquest hearing into
my mum's disappearance was taking place, I remember hearing Rick
Blum tell the court about all his past marriages and
children to the many women that he'd married, apparently all
unbeknown to his current wife. I said to you, I
(44:14):
think we need to find the ex wives. We decided
to go down that route, and that rabbit hole, and
first was Alona Kinzell. She was actually Rick Blum's third
wife and as a loner, had died in Australia. Her
death certificates sat behind the open access here in archives
and this was a massive pandora's box. Finding another of
(44:40):
Rick Blum's daughters, Evelyn, who had a lot to tell,
and last I spoke to Evelyn, she had still not
been interviewed by New South Wales police. We then had
Blums in our opinion and we've been able to establish
he's Noan firstborn son, Gayton, who happened to read about
(45:01):
my search for my mum and saw his father in
the local newspaper in the Luxembourg wart Over in Luxembourg,
an article written by Tom Riddell, and he contacted me
through my Facebook page and generously filling in some gaps
regarding his mother married to Rick Blum, who at the
(45:23):
time was known as Willy Wooters. And I remember him
telling us how disgusted he was to hear that he
didn't even remember his own daughter's name. So that was interesting,
and Gayetan was started to interact with us a little bit,
didn't he, and he gave us some important documents that
his mother had kept all this time. But I remember
(45:46):
she wasn't very well and she'd just gone to hospital actually,
and he said, look, I don't want to ask her
too many questions because she's not very well. You particularly
found some crazy connectors. Do you want to tell everybody
about the cake?
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yes, with Evelyn. So my one of my birthday cakes
myself was actually purchased from Evelyn. So Evelyn did like
a raw food cake kind of business. And so when
I found the ABN related to and Evelyn Wooters and
then realized that that was, you know, possibly going to
(46:24):
be Rick Bloom's daughter. I then looked at the business
name and realized that that is actually where I bought
my birthday cake quite a few years ago.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah. Crazy, it's crazy little things. So the reason this
is important and the reason we connect it to Belgium
is because the second wife that Rick Blum mentions in
the inquest is Nicole Renault, and to date we still
haven't found Nicole. So you might have heard me mentioned
coming out of London. I was like, maybe we could
(46:58):
ask for some help because I've been become connected to
theo Hayes's parents who live in Belgium. And they have
offered to help me whenever they need to with anything
over there, and vice versa. You know, do we go
to the police and put in a welfare check for
Nicole Renau and see if they can find her. I
guess knowing that she is safe and well. Elderly, but
(47:22):
safe and well is good good enough for me to
go okay. At least she's okay in the next episode
of The Missing Matter. So next up Luxembourg. This is
where we are on a mission to go and meet
in person Monique Cornelius. Wanted to give her a hug,
(47:46):
take her some flowers, and hopefully have a chat with
her about anything really that she's happy to share with us.
We catch the bus straight out, that's the first cab
off the rank. We want to head out to Itsich
and we find Moniques is zactly the same place that
I went to when I went there back in twenty
(48:08):
nineteen with the Channel seven crew. It looked a little
bit different, but what we saw on the name plate
on the front door was something that I hadn't noticed before.
Apodja Production.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome back everybody. We're now at episode seven where we're
going to take you with us to Brussels. Jonie's with me,
but we're a little bit distant today. She's down in
Victoria and coming into us life while I'm here in
the studio in Brisbane. How are you going, Jony?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Good?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good? Here we are and look, I remember Brussels so well.
It was such a big part of the trip for us,
and we did so many things and we're in such
a rush to try and fill in all the gaps
that we needed to do while we were there. But
it began with us getting off the train we were
coming in from Amsterdam. Yeah, this is pretty hard for us.
(00:59):
This is not easy. We're bouncing in and out of
countries every two days. We've got lack of sleep. Journey
hasn't been feeling well. She was really unwell, so she
ended up in bed all day yesterday and I went
out and did all of the coin dealers and the
flea market and everything that we had planned, which I'm
sure was pretty hard for you because you really wanted
to do that, and we'd had big discussions about how
(01:21):
we were going to manage that and I wasn't even
going to go in because we didn't want to talk
about the missing person side of things. We were just
trying to focus on the coin dealing side of.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Things, getting accounts just.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
For what it's worth.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
You can't get that stuff at home, you know. Unless
I'm walking in and talking to the actual coin dealers
here in Amsterdam. They won't answer you. They don't talk
to women. For a start, that.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
You've got, you know, fifty thousand euro worth of coin
that you want to sell from the Australia, they're not interested.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Yeah, so we needed to come.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Here in order to face them face to face.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
No, no one else is going to do it.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
No one else is doing it.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And people might question as to why that's important. And
the main focus of going to the coin dealers was
to see if they could confirm for us if we
didn't need them to tell us the details. We just
needed to know yes or no as to whether he
had a foreign bank account that he was trading with
with those people, because you know, my mum's money, will
(02:16):
know sh in their police report that the money was
transferred electronically, potentially to an overseas account to start a
new life with her new partner. So where is that
account and what was it about and who owned it
because it didn't certainly didn't go into her bank account.
So if we can find that information, and you know,
you have to be here, it's boots on the ground.
(02:37):
You can't do this over the phone. You can't do
it over email. We have to physically come here. And
this is not fun. You know, it's Darcy's birthday today.
I should be at home hanging out with my twenty
year old and celebrating, having their birthday cake and going
out for dinner with the rest of my family. But
I'm here. It's going to be Jonie's birthday. You know
she would should be doing the same with Ethan and
(02:57):
her Chris. No problem, okay, thank you. How far how
far away is it do you think?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Okay, yes, okay, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's going to be difficult with the suitcases, but anyway,
give it a crack. When we got off, it seriously
felt like they were herding cattle. They literally had hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of people and pulling us all
into one narrow doorway where they had guards with guns
(03:33):
and all sorts of craziness. But the other thing that
stood out to me was there was no checks at
the border, so we were literally bouncing in and out
of the countries and no one was checking our passports,
no one was checking who we were. And it sort
of really sung home to me about how easy that
is to do over there. I mean, obviously in Australia
we can bounce from state to state and we don't
(03:54):
have border control checking our passports and things like that.
But I would have thought over in different countries that
might have been the case. But what do you think
about that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
It's just the absolute difficulty. Like if I think back
to nineteen ninety seven when your mum was planning her
overseas trip to move from the UK into Europe and
then from there, she was unless she actually phoned you
or told you or sent you a card with information
on it, she was literally able to just navigate her
(04:26):
way around wherever she wanted to go to and frowing wherever.
And so to me, that in itself, does you know,
potentially pose risks if she's not communicating with you. You know,
when she said she's going to have a break, now
she's going to do her you know, do her thing
and not be communicating anywhere near as much. I think
(04:47):
that is very risky, isn't it if you if you're
not actually being checked as you're going in and out
of the different country.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
We just don't know where she was, and there was
literally no chance to even back then, there was no
chance to actually work out where she'd been. Like regardless
of the twenty six seven years it is now, it
makes no difference. Okay, so we've just arrived in Brussels,
early start, late train delayed by about an hour in total,
(05:19):
What a debarcle that was coming through trying to get
off the train, joy debacle, total debarkle.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
It was an absolute funnel.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
So you had how many people.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
There, three hundred four hundred people trying to get through
and trying to get us in the single line, single line,
but for no reason, no checking your past.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Checking nothing, which we knew anyway because of the machine
and agreement. But it just kind of struck me as
I was standing there in that line that you know,
no one's checked anything. So realistically, that's he could have
just flown into as stand, Netherlands, jumped on a train
here and been into Belgium with no checks whatsoever. I mean,
(06:00):
he could have bought that to get under any name.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, because no one's checking. Oh no, it's going to
match your passports. You want to put your passport in.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, Ry Cooper said he had like literally a bag
full of sports. Yeah, so he just purchase takes one
out under another name. Even if he is bad from Belgium,
he could be in here easy, not a problem.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
But who's actually checking?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
So a very interesting triggering, i'd say, entry into his
home country.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
We are ready to roll tomorrow afternoon. I'm actually really
looking forward to just going and seeing Glaine.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
See how she's come up too, like after their whole yeah,
seeing in the inquest and everything.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
She turned ninety in August.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
It hasn't been a hard end of life to her
thanks to allegedly ascertain someone.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
So we're going there for aftening tea and then we'll
leave them while they set up because they're having a
piano concert which we've been invited to go to, so
it'll be nice just to meet them in person. And
Alexandra Piramurm is putting that on us, which is very kind.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
So the Royal Library of Brussels, just remembering that andre
Plum's son in law worked here and also where the
coin cabinet is, which is where allegedly a certain person
would meet other people looking at how much their coins
were worth, and the history of coins, etc. So this
(07:28):
is quite a crucial little location for the whole story.
And just remembering Marian today, she's not lost in all
of this stuff, and hoping we get some evidence today
that we can use back in Australia.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Okay, So we ended up going to the KBR. That
was one of the main things we wanted to do
in Brussels. Do you want to tell everyone what that
stands for?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So the KBR, and I'm going to be looking down
as I say this. It's a contraction of two names
in two different languages, so it's said conincla BiblioTech and
BiblioTech Royale. So in the past a number of different
names have been used to denote it. So there was
(08:14):
sort of like a backwards and forwards about who was
going to have the control of the KBR between all
the different nationalities that were living in Belgium at the time.
They cleared it up by combining the Dutch and the French,
and so it's now called KBR, but it's basically the
Royal Library of Belgium, and as we know, we knew
(08:38):
of a couple of people that actually worked there that
formed part of your mum's story as well.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So what I learned going to the KBR was there
is a place there within it called the coin Cabinet,
and that spiked our interest, didn't it.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
It did feature obviously within Rick Bloom's testimony. He did
state that he'd been there on a number of occasions,
and also with the Andre Flum story, so that is
where he said that he met Andre Flum's son in law,
Pierre du So. Pierre Drew worked at the library and
(09:20):
that's where he said he met him as well. So
the coin library, we have heard from various people unsubstantiated
information that Rick Bloom would sit outside the hallway of
the coin Cabinet and basically speak to people as they
came in and out with their collections with an interest
(09:41):
to selling or assessing or again very much unsubstantiated, but
that did come from a number of people they had
seen him do that.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And so the coin Cabinet itself is a public numismatic
collection established back in the eighteen hundreds, and that it
now holds coins and medals and is the department of
the Royal Library of Belgium.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
We've got a booking for the reading room, just to
look at some material from Australia.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yes, before the wedding room, you need to take.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
One membership yes, yes, yes, one moment.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Yes, thank you, because that's all payments in eighteen years.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Ye have thought.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
There's a two of us guy lead.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
So do you need a sales idea as well? Yes, yeah,
I've got a case person.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
One of the things we found was tricky when trying
to organize when we were going to go to certain
places was that whilst we were traveling, we obviously had
weekends in amongst the weeks, and that meant that we
had to really work out how long we were going
to be in each place during work hours. You know,
(11:07):
we had to make good use of our time and
therefore pick things that we could do on weekends like
flea markets, etc. Around other things that we needed to
do that were open only in business hours. Some things
like libraries, for example, are open on weekends, but some
of the people we wanted to speak to were only
working Monday to Friday. So we really had to do
(11:29):
the nitty gritty and make sure that we were making
the most of our time there. I also wanted to
say that what we were doing while we were there.
I guess became a little bit paranoid about posting where
we were at any given time, because I had it
in my head that I didn't really want people knowing
exactly where we were. So when we were posting home
(11:51):
or on socials to say, hey, we're in Amsterdam, we'd
already left Amsterdam. We were in Brussels at this point,
because we just didn't know. We had two chicks bouncing
in and out of countries again, just protecting ourselves and
making sure that no one really where we were at
any given time except our families. It's a very strange thing,
I guess, should be doing this type of investigation in
(12:12):
a foreign country, speaking different languages and places we've never
been before. We rock up to the library, We speak
to a lady at the front desk at KBR and
tell her why we're there. You know.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Who worked here?
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Many many names, the same person, same person.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
Uses many names.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Do you speak English, same same same person? Yes, yes, yes,
so this is him now he's from Belgium.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
He's from torn.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Tall live That's why we're in Australia because we're going
to use look at some of your collections to try
to find.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
More information on them.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Ask you around maybe other people know, yeah, and then
you can contact us here or you can contact.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Here as well.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah yeah, if you need if you find any information,
because there's like a lot of money as a reward
in Australia. There's half a million dollars up for reward
information a million euro.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
We've always done our best to keep people's identity confidential.
It's been something that we've really prided ourselves on our
feel like, I think that with the amount of people
that have come forward to us that have really actually
trusted us to keep their information private and also their identity.
You'll just see that sometimes in this podcast people's names
(13:52):
will be bleaked out to disguise them and their identity.
Another important find Joanie made was a letter that a
lady by the name of Andre flow May had written
to the Queensland Governor, which was dated the twenty sixth
of July twenty ten. Now, Andre actually got up at
(14:13):
three am Portugal time in Spain to give evidence at
my mum's inquest in May twenty twenty three. In February
twenty twenty one. After learning the identity of Frederick Deheadavery
at that stage, I just went through all of the
archives around Australia and one thing that did ping was
a Frederick Deheadavvery in the Queensland archives. So there was
(14:36):
a letter in there that was sent to the Governor
of Queensland at the time. There was enough in there
to see that spelled out his name, and that spelt
out andre Flum's name. Mister Bloom actually stated when asked
about her at the inquest that she had dementia, was
in a wheelchair and couldn't put two words together. So
(14:57):
that was his account of when he took the coins
from her in twenty ten. That was how he said
that she was entered to him, which is quite interesting.
From there, when mister Bloom was asked who he sent
the envelope back to, he said that he sent it
to her son in law, whose name was Pierre du
(15:19):
I thought to myself, okay, well, if we can find him,
then maybe he might be able to shed a bit
more light on this whole situation, and so I found
out that he was actually a tenor for concerts, opera
and Operetta. I then found a Facebook page that was
dedicated to his work, and I saw that it did
(15:39):
stop abruptly, and I had to look through all all
of the comments, and I actually found that someone had
written farewell Pierre, and then I saw who actually liked it,
and it was one of his children, because they had
he had the same name. So look, Andre was never
actually contacted by Australian officials. She wasn't contacted to give
(16:02):
her witness statement the inquest, and I think, you know,
perhaps it may have been because she was well. Rick
Bloom had said at that stage she was eighty when
she actually sold the coin collection, so was there potentially
an assumption there that she was too old she would
have been deceased by then, especially based on his description
(16:22):
of her at that time. So mister Bloom allegedly lied
at the inquest in relation to your marm or Marion's
case when he claimed that he did return the coins,
because interestingly enough, Missus Flumm actually got on to the
stand and within her testimony stated that yes she did
(16:45):
receive some back within the express post envelope, but not
all and all the high value coins. She stated on
record she did not receive them back and so therefore
she had very very few, she said, of no value
coins that came back to her in the envelope.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I remember actually New so Wales police asking me how
that they can get in contact with andre Flamy being
that the information they didn't hold the information. It was
just a very awkward time in that realm, and I
actually don't think Rick Blum had any expectation at that
(17:26):
juncture that Andre Flammy would be presenting on the stand
giving evidence at my mum's inquest about her interactions with
Rick Blum. It was an interesting time listening to her
because the questions were put to her all about the
allegations of what Rick Blum had said, that she was
(17:49):
a mute and that she had Alzheimer's and that she
was in a wheelchair. I remember her laughing when Adam
Casseleden was asking those questions to her, saying are you
in a wheelchair? Do you have Ourzheimer's? And it was
very clear at that point that that was not the
case at all, and she was firm state of mind
to be able to answer the questions and give her evidence,
(18:13):
even though it was three am in the morning in Portugal,
and she got up to testify, which was amazing. We
get up pretty early this morning and we worked out
that there was a flea market. Now I'm again not
great on pronunciation, so marshi pearce is how I think
(18:36):
it's pronounced. One of the things that I remember walking
down there actually was there was a street and out
the front of all the houses you just literally it's
all concrete, so no grass. It was literally just the
road and then a pathway and then the front door,
and out the front of the door were these tiny,
(18:56):
tiny little plarks, and I stopped to read what they were,
and it was quite upsetting, especially because we'd just been
to an Frank's how as well, and these plaques were
actually identities of people who lived in that house who
were taken to Outfitz and how they died, and the
(19:16):
dates and things like that from when they were born
to when they were taken and what they died from.
So I felt so sad that I was walking in
the footsteps of people who experienced such sadness, but at
the same time nice to recognize that it was a
nice tribute to those people. So we arrive at the
flea market finally to a sea of stalls selling everything
(19:38):
from artwork, jewelry and coins. So why was this particular
flea market important, Well, we had.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Heard from a number of people over the years, because
this would have been the closest one to where he lived.
We had heard from a number of people that this
was somewhere that he frequented and had a look through,
especially for coins, antiques, knickknacks. I mean, as we saw
going in there, there was all that and more, wasn't there.
(20:07):
That was why we went there, just to see whether
there was anyone there, and I was quite interested. It
was the same kind of thing as the Lismore, nor
Then New South Wales flea market.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Hello, won Joel, A.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Question for you.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, do you know you know this man? I don't know,
you don't know?
Speaker 7 (20:28):
I know?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Good ah.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Ah, okay, messy missy. Do you know the name Frederic
ahead of very Willy Wooters?
Speaker 8 (20:39):
No?
Speaker 7 (20:39):
No, nobody from what did you.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Excuse him?
Speaker 4 (20:46):
What course?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Do you know this man.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Frederic ahead of very Willy Wooters. No, that's okay, messy, missy.
I personally think that with a few of them there
was a little flicker of recognition. I can't base that
on anything. I don't have any evidence whatsoever, but I
(21:13):
just got the impression that there could have been a
few there that may have recognized but certainly everyone denied
knowing him and not recognizing his images or anything of
that nature.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
That afternoon we had been invited to go to afternoon
tea at Alexandra Pera Boom's home. Alexandra is the daughter
in law of the beautiful Galaene and we finally got
to meet Gleene and give her a massive hug. I
was probably the highlight for me being able to meet
(21:51):
her and say thank you for being brave and what
a gentle soul she was. When we chatted for hours,
we were holding hands at the table. One of our
lovely followers had made Galaene a shawl. She had made
a shawl and she'd sent it to me and wrote
Gleen a beautiful little card and said to me, when
you go over there, would you please give it to her.
(22:13):
I wanted to give her something as well from us
here in Australia, so I went to Country Road and
I bought her a pink alpacker scarf and yeah, I
just wanted her to think about it every time she
props it on keep so warm and she can think
of it as a big hug from all of us
here in Australia. I was just sad watching her on
the Channel seven interview and she mentioned that she needed
(22:36):
to borrow clothes from her friends when it just really
broke my heart after as she knew him to be
Frederick de Heaviderry. She said that, you know, allegedly he
had stolen all her life savings. So I wanted to
bring her something warm, let her think that every time
she wears it, we're giving her a big hug from Australia.
(22:58):
I'm Sally, Hello, my love, how are you wanted to
give you big hug?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
That's from everyone in Australia.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Everyone wants me to come and say hello and give
you a big hug and tell you that we all
love you.
Speaker 7 (23:13):
I said to you, I am happy.
Speaker 9 (23:18):
Because I'm still living.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I'm happy to.
Speaker 7 (23:23):
Meet me.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yes, I'm happy you are living too.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I'm very happy.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
I brought you a gift for your birthday. A lady
who has been listening to my podcast. Yes, so she
made you something as well as a gift, and it's
made with gum leaves from Australia and I thought you could,
and it was the color would look good on you.
(23:49):
I wanted to give you something warm. So this is
from me, but from everybody. So it's a scar that's
our packer. Thank you, You're very welcome, Thank you very much.
It's a pleasure. So we were having a big chat
(24:11):
with Glaine about obviously Rick Blum, because he's the connector
in this story to how I've become aware of Glaine
and with me as well, I guess. And as we
were chatting, I was telling her, you know that for
me personally, her story is the closest to my mum,
but in reverse. So we've got lots of similarities there
(24:35):
that have come up in evidence for my mum and
for Glaine, both of them having live a function tests,
both of them talking and discussing about tea chests and
sending them overseas one way or the other, and going
overseas to start a new life. They are all things
that you know, obviously mum starting a new life. We
(24:57):
didn't know that, right, but that's what Glaine has told us.
Was the intention with her and Frederick de HEAVDERI. She
was telling us about the fact that Rick Blum had
allegedly explained to her that he was a big bank
mogul and had this massive house in Sydney, that he was,
you know, sad because it was an empty house, and
how he needed to fill it with love, and that
(25:19):
he would set up bank accounts for her children for
her to give him the money so that he could
actually go and set up those bank accounts for her children.
And you know, hearing her say do you know what
he did to me? Was quite heartbreaking because you could
hear it in her voice.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
And do you know what he said to me?
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Can you tell me?
Speaker 9 (25:42):
So quickly understood that for me my children because I
loved my husband, because with my husband.
Speaker 6 (25:59):
Not to go like that, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (26:05):
And he say, yes, I open an com bog.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
For your children in Australia. Yes, yeah, I remember you
saying that. And probably the big bombshell for me was
when I was going through the similarities, I said to her,
you know, the only thing really that doesn't match is
that you didn't change your name. My mum changed her
(26:33):
name to Florabella Ramagirl. It started a flurry amongst the
three of them, didn't it journey like? Did you know
that he wanted her to change her name when she
got to Sydney, and I think Glaine's son actually was
talking a fair bit about it to us at the table,
and how he referenced that her name being Glaine d'armois
(26:54):
du Bois. He used to sit there and actually tease her,
calling her Debush, and it was said to us that
it was kind of like arogative. Glaine told us that
the intention was that when she moved to Sydney, that
he had told her that you will have to change
your name, and we will be changing your name to
the Bush.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Maybe you already know that she's called Dubois, and you
know he called her.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
When we will we will go in in Australia and
you will change your name it will be.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Bush because oh I didn't know that, so he was
using the same.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
It was just.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Maybe it was just an idea.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Anytime he was calling her, he was always doing that Bush. Really,
I suppose, yeah, right, like with a tone and a
bit of a look. That spins me out, because as
I said to them, if you move in countries and
(28:16):
you then get there and change your name, it's very
hard for your family to find you if they don't
know the new name.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
But when we actually went and sat down and she said, no,
actually he wanted me to change my name to that name.
That is when I thought, oh, okay, because obviously, coming
from Australia, we understand the bush meaning the bush is
out in the bush, out in the mountains, out in
the forest, and that was sort of like a teasing
(28:44):
or you know, a silly joke. But when we realized that,
oh okay, you actually were being told asked to change
your name, yeah, that for me was I was quite
taken aback by that actually at the time.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So it's probably a point in time to add another
bit of information that has come to light. Most people
will know. I have become quite close with Janet Oldenburg
and we've gone out for coffees, and I took her
out for lunch for Christmas last year. We were just
sitting there and Janet hadn't been very well, but she
(29:24):
was doing a lot of wellness health wellness within herself,
and we were talking more about that and she sort
of stopped and just randomly said to me, oh, there's
something I probably should have told the police. And I said, oh,
what are you talking about? And she said, oh, well,
when I was in BALI with him. He got me
(29:45):
to write two letters to my family that said that
I didn't want anything to do with them. And I
just looked at her and thought, okay, And she said, yeah,
I probably should have told the police that that's probably important.
And this is like I felt bad for her because
I could see she was pretty stressed about it. And
I said, look, you know, sometimes I know myself, when
(30:08):
people are interviewing you and asking you questions, you tend
to answer the questions that are being asked of you.
You don't sort of have an opportunity per se to
just verbally speak openly a bit like what we were
just talking about with Glaine and the name changed. Like
unless you ask the question, they're generally probably not going
to bring it up, right, They're just going to be
(30:28):
answering the questions that you're asking them. Anyway, fast forward
into this year and I rang Janet and I said, look,
you know what you told me last year. I think
that's really important. I think I should give that to
the police. Are you okay? If I record this conversation,
I can give it to the homicide detectives and just
so that they know, so that they have the information
available to them, and she was like, yes, yes, of course,
(30:50):
I don't feel one hundred percent, but you know if
you want to. I said, well, you let me know
when it's a good time. She said, oh, text me back,
and she said, now now it's good. Now it's good.
So I rang her back and I recorded the conversation
with her, and we chatted and she filled me in.
Speaker 6 (31:04):
I just wanted to ask you again because when we
went for lunch, you were telling me about when you
were in Bali with him and how you'd remembered something
that you probably should have told the police, but they
didn't ask you the right.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Question for you to remember to say what you told me.
But do you remember what that was without me telling you?
Speaker 10 (31:25):
Gosh not At the moment, I've been so ensconced with
this problem.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
I'm just it's a bit full, and I don't want
to put any pressure on you. It was about Rick
Blum making you write a letter when you're in Bali.
Speaker 10 (31:41):
Yeah, yeah, And it was about not being in touch
with my family and stuff like that. But he had
all that stuff and he made me write out another one.
He said, oh, your writing is different, so.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Tell me a little bit about that. Just so I
can let the homicide team know because that's a very
important part of it, which I wish they'd asked you
that question.
Speaker 10 (32:02):
Gosh, it was a bad not have any anything to
do with my family. We were living over we're going
to live overseas and all this.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
You told me when we were chatting about it that
you had to write it twice.
Speaker 10 (32:18):
Yeah, I had to do that twice, but it was
there was more into it, but I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
And then he took the letters from you, and you
didn't know what happened to them, That's right, I don't know.
I've since passed that information onto the homicide detectives. And unfortunately,
my friend Janet passed away on Friday, the thirtieth of May.
She was actually at the same hospital my dad was
(32:44):
at when he broke his jaw in three places after
having a fall in his care facility. So I was
going and seeing them on the daily, being that she
was upstairs as well. She was downstairs, Dad was upstairs.
And it's her funeral tomorrow, so pretty sad time for me.
I became quite close to her. Happened very quickly and
(33:06):
very fast, but you know, the last conversation I had
with the detectives was oh, well, can we get somebody
in there to go and talk to Janet because we'll
probably need to get her to tell us herself. And
I said, well, I'm not sure I want you to
do that because she's not well and she's in hospital now,
so you know, it doesn't matter. At the end of
the day, it doesn't matter. She matters more to me
(33:26):
than her giving evidence about something so sad time in life.
As our journey progressed, we walked in back from Galaan's
and the restaurant downstairs was absolutely chockers and I thought,
oh gosh, it must be good if there's so many
(33:48):
people here. I went up to the lady at the desk,
I said, any chance we can get a table for two,
and she said, yes, yes, absolutely, come and sit down.
I've got a table for you. So, to our surprise,
we actually managed to grab a table and have something
to eat. And I just had gone up to the
canter or concierge and I just spoke to the gentleman.
I said, listen, we've got a problem in our room
(34:10):
where the window isn't shutting properly, so it's freezing cold
and we can hear everything. Is there any chance we
could move to a different room? And I said, look,
we're just going to have some dinner. Maybe if you
could have a player and see if there's anything available
and let us know. And he said, come and see
me when you finished. I've got a room you can
(34:30):
go to. So we finish our dinner and we walk
up to the room and he's explained to us that
the room that he can offer us is one bed.
So in our room that we were in we had
two separate beds and we were in singles. We had
to share a double bed. So he said, look, here's
the key. So we went for a walk, didn't we journey?
(34:52):
We did.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
We got into the lift and we went downstairs and
as the doors opened, what did we experience?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Smoke?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Smoke, smoke.
Speaker 7 (35:03):
Block you go first, okay, okay, don't set the alarms off, like,
oh my.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
God, a light?
Speaker 7 (35:27):
Where did I book a stoney?
Speaker 6 (35:30):
What is this in here?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
It's a it's a cold tower and it's hidden.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
It is a cool one.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Sure what it was with the length under the table
out there, the legs under the table. Maybe it was
a brothel.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
We didn't know. We're from Australia from Love Made.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
We're staying in the hotel and they it's all the
smoke out there, and we were worried about where we
were going. Do we need a reservation?
Speaker 6 (36:05):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
It's now Monday, the fourteenth of October, and we planned
to return to the Royal Library of Brussels and we'd
made a connection there with a gentleman who was the
conservator muten of the coin Cabinet. So we checked out
of our hotel. We stored all our luggage at concierge
(36:29):
before making another dash in the rain up to the library. Joey,
the pebbles on the road very slippery. Oh yeah, and
it literally had rained every day we'd been away so far.
So we make our way up to the top of
the hill the KBR to meet and chat with this
new friend of ours, and we walk into the coin cabinet.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
He was great, wasn't he? Like he really did. He
was quite open, Like I don't know what you felt,
but I sort of felt a little bit awkward, you know,
because I had not really explaining to him anything at
all about the situation. So I remember walking in in
his Oh, so, what would you like to see within
the coin cabinet. So having to again just say that
(37:11):
people are kind of aware like me and sale having
to make these giant leaps with people going from yes,
we're here to see coins to can we sit down
with you and let's tell you a whole scenario where
you may have information that might help us. It's quite
a big leap to make, I think. So he just
(37:33):
openly listened to us. He just listened to the situation.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Took us on a tour as well. He explained to
us about how there's been a lot of fraudulent activity
through the coin cabinet over the years where people would
come in and they would literally swap out coins. From
what I gathered, like people would walk in. Therefore, everything
and now is under huge lock and key. You have
to make appointments, everyone signed in. There's no just general
(38:00):
walking in and helping yourself and swapping something out. But
that has happened in the past and they have had
experiences with that. He was going to some big meeting
where a lot of the big cooin people were coming.
Is that right, that's right. He was going to ask
some questions. Has he come back to you about that?
Since we've got.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Back, he has He said that nobody knew mister Bloom
and that is interesting because I do have a number
of dealers on records stating that they did do business
with him. So again it could just be people being polite,
people not wanting to get involved. Is a different name,
(38:39):
you know, this is the quite well, that's the thing.
I mean, how many different names. And also you do
need to be aware too. So we have one dealer
that has stated, you know, in an email to me
that Gilaine did actually go in and requests catalogs, so
that is on their file. So whenever anyone requests a catalog,
they have to give their ID and so it was
(39:03):
actually noted down that she did do that and the
date and everything obviously from a sales point of view.
So he explained to me that it's so that because
someone's gotten a physical catalog, so they can follow up
with that person. You know, did you want to purchase
anything from the catalog that we gave you last week?
Speaker 2 (39:21):
For example? And he also did Elson's Yeah, that was Alson's, Yeah,
the biggest dealer in Belgium, that's all right, and then
also Charlotte as well, so she actually did purchase coins
from Elson so they have got those all that purchase information.
So again that that is another purchase that was made.
(39:45):
As you said, who is the purchaser and who ultimately
gets the coin at the end is the question, isn't
it really? So there is actually a warning in the
files of the International Association of Professional Neumattisks. I can
never say that word IPAN, so I actually contacted them
(40:06):
and they wrote back to me saying that they have
got a warning.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
It's for a mister r our West. So again Richard
Lloyd West, one of Rick Bloom's aliases, noting his address,
and interestingly enough his address was a post office box
in Ballina or Luxembourg. So again we have Luxembourg mentioned,
(40:32):
which seems to be the theme throughout the years, and
that was for a non payment in June nineteen ninety six.
So if you think about that again, that is twelve
months before your mum is writing on her incoming and
outgoing passenger cards Luxembourg.
Speaker 7 (40:49):
From Australia Prorostaria miss a long trip.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Lazy as basically here and this the coin cabinet.
Speaker 8 (41:16):
It's actually quite central to a story about a Belgian man.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
He's eighty four years of age now but he moved
to Australia. He was a Santin coined feeler and collector
in Belgium. His name is Frederick Head a very yes.
Speaker 5 (41:37):
Yes, so he bought and sold a lot with Jim
Nobles from Nobles in Mathematics from Australia, Yes yes, and
Alison down.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
So the reason for our visit is that he is
actually was in court for Sally's.
Speaker 8 (41:56):
Mother is a missing person. The reason why we've come
to see today is because we're trying to locate other
people in Belgium.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
And one thing he said on the standing core that
in the.
Speaker 8 (42:12):
Report is that he would come here and he would
sit in a cafeteria or in one of the waiting areas,
and he would approach people as they came and went,
asking about what their coins were.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So we leave his office. We've taken up probably I
don't know, about an hour and a half of his time.
I say to Jonny, I'm just going to go to
the bathroom anyway. So I go into the bathroom. There's
no one in there. I get in there and the
door handle doesn't open. So I'm turning the handle and
it's just turning loosely. I can't actually physically get the
(42:51):
door open. I am locking a toilet, the door handles working,
and I can't get out. Okay, okay, find me.
Speaker 7 (43:08):
And you let me leave me in here.
Speaker 6 (43:14):
That is dangerous.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
I was having a heart attack. I had to start
recording myself, baby, and I've bought it to months another.
I did shirts, but something's happened, and you were going
to leave me in there.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
You're not fine, and I just I just called that
on camera. I was decided, she's going to leave me
in there? Everybody, can you believe that? So Johnny knows
all too well that when I get a b in
my bonnet, I keep going till I find the answers.
And Johnny, you are a bit the same. And hence,
while we probably get on so well, I would say.
(43:52):
But a little while back, whilst the inquest hearing into
my mum's disappearance was taking place, I remember hearing Rick
Blum tell the court about all his past marriages and
children to the many women that he'd married, apparently all
unbeknown to his current wife. I said to you, I
(44:14):
think we need to find the ex wives. We decided
to go down that route, and that rabbit hole, and
first was Alona Kinzell. She was actually Rick Blum's third
wife and as a loner, had died in Australia. Her
death certificates sat behind the open access here in archives
and this was a massive pandora's box. Finding another of
(44:40):
Rick Blum's daughters, Evelyn, who had a lot to tell,
and last I spoke to Evelyn, she had still not
been interviewed by New South Wales police. We then had
Blums in our opinion and we've been able to establish
he's Noan firstborn son, Gayton, who happened to read about
(45:01):
my search for my mum and saw his father in
the local newspaper in the Luxembourg wart Over in Luxembourg,
an article written by Tom Riddell, and he contacted me
through my Facebook page and generously filling in some gaps
regarding his mother married to Rick Blum, who at the
(45:23):
time was known as Willy Wooters. And I remember him
telling us how disgusted he was to hear that he
didn't even remember his own daughter's name. So that was interesting,
and Gayetan was started to interact with us a little bit,
didn't he, and he gave us some important documents that
his mother had kept all this time. But I remember
(45:46):
she wasn't very well and she'd just gone to hospital actually,
and he said, look, I don't want to ask her
too many questions because she's not very well. You particularly
found some crazy connectors. Do you want to tell everybody
about the cake?
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yes, with Evelyn. So my one of my birthday cakes
myself was actually purchased from Evelyn. So Evelyn did like
a raw food cake kind of business. And so when
I found the ABN related to and Evelyn Wooters and
then realized that that was, you know, possibly going to
(46:24):
be Rick Bloom's daughter. I then looked at the business
name and realized that that is actually where I bought
my birthday cake quite a few years ago.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah. Crazy, it's crazy little things. So the reason this
is important and the reason we connect it to Belgium
is because the second wife that Rick Blum mentions in
the inquest is Nicole Renault, and to date we still
haven't found Nicole. So you might have heard me mentioned
coming out of London. I was like, maybe we could
(46:58):
ask for some help because I've been become connected to
theo Hayes's parents who live in Belgium. And they have
offered to help me whenever they need to with anything
over there, and vice versa. You know, do we go
to the police and put in a welfare check for
Nicole Renau and see if they can find her. I
guess knowing that she is safe and well. Elderly, but
(47:22):
safe and well is good good enough for me to
go okay. At least she's okay in the next episode
of The Missing Matter. So next up Luxembourg. This is
where we are on a mission to go and meet
in person Monique Cornelius. Wanted to give her a hug,
(47:46):
take her some flowers, and hopefully have a chat with
her about anything really that she's happy to share with us.
We catch the bus straight out, that's the first cab
off the rank. We want to head out to Itsich
and we find Moniques is zactly the same place that
I went to when I went there back in twenty
(48:08):
nineteen with the Channel seven crew. It looked a little
bit different, but what we saw on the name plate
on the front door was something that I hadn't noticed before.
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