December 15, 2025 • 17 mins
Sunday’s Bondi Beach terrorist attack, which targeted a Hanukkah celebration, was the worst mass shooting in Australia since Port Arthur. Some in the Jewish community have been fearing a deadly attack for years.
This episode features the stories of witnesses, such as reporter Elias Visontay, and mother-of-three Jacqui Cohen, who took cover with her 12-year-old daughter.
Crime and justice reporter Amber Schultz, who spoke to the mother and wife of the suspected gunmen, also details what is known about the shooters, their motive and how they had access to weapons in a country lauded for its gun control.
For crisis support, call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or NSW Health Mental Health Line, available 24/7 on 1800 011 511.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:00):
I'm Elias Vazante. I'm a reporter at the Sydney Morning Herald,
and I was there at Bondi yesterday. I was swimming
in the water when the gunshots started ringing out. We
just raced out of the water and ran along with
hundreds of other people from the beach. Everyone's still dripping
(00:22):
in seawater. Sandy. People were taking cover behind garages and
unit blocks. It was a surreal experience.
S2 (00:35):
Get on the ground.
S1 (00:38):
It felt like the shots kept going for minutes. They
just didn't stop. It was excruciating. One of the thoughts
that bizarrely ran through my head as I was driving
away from the scene was the fact that my sandals
were still sitting on the sand, and then very quickly
(00:58):
you realize how insignificant that really is?
S3 (01:03):
It is Australia's worst mass shooting in nearly 30 years
after 50. Our coverage of the breaking news from Australia.
A fatal shooting which has killed.
S4 (01:12):
Were firing into crowds of people celebrating the start of
Hanukkah at a people.
S5 (01:16):
Ran for their lives when the firing began. Some taking shelter,
were behind the mass shooting at Sydney's Bondi Beach, which killed.
S4 (01:23):
15, specifically targeting those who were at that Hanukkah gathering.
S6 (01:28):
This is a targeted attack, an act of evil, anti-Semitism,
terrorism that has struck the heart of our nation.
S7 (01:43):
Like reporter Elias Vasanti, mother of three, Jackie Cohen was
also at Bondi yesterday. She parked her car right outside
the Hanukkah event, but then she and her 12 year
old daughter made their way up to a bar mitzvah
right next door when Sunday's massacre unfolded.
S8 (02:00):
In hindsight, I know I did hear the shots. The
thing that alerted me that there was a problem was
just seeing the sheer amount of people rushing towards us,
rushing out of the way.
S7 (02:11):
They crouched in a bathroom and waited.
S8 (02:14):
We couldn't see anything. We could just hear things so
we could hear that there was, you know, pandemonium happening outside.
One of the guys came in and told me that
there had been a shooting, and yeah, we were just
trying to remain calm and wait.
S7 (02:30):
Jackie's car is still parked there near where the Hanukkah
celebration was. Now the scene of the worst mass shooting
since the Port Arthur attack 30 years ago. For some
in the Jewish community, this is what they've been fearing
for years that a rising tide of anti-Semitism would lead
to such an attack, which has shattered any sense of security.
S8 (02:52):
So on the one hand, you think to yourself, well, why,
How could we put ourselves in this position? On the
other hand, why shouldn't we? Why shouldn't we be able
to exist and celebrate?
S7 (03:06):
Today. Crime and justice reporter Amber Schultz on what happened
at Bondi on Sunday night. What is known about the
suspected gunman and what happens from here? This is the
morning edition. I'm Samantha Sellinger Morris. So, Amber, you have
(03:30):
been at Bondi Beach reporting today. This is the day
after the attack. Can you just tell the listeners what
it's been like down there today?
S9 (03:37):
Yeah, so it was really eerie scenes early in the
morning this morning, there were still items that people had
left scattered on the beach when they fled. Um, from
when the guns started firing, um, those items were collected
and left along the concrete just near, you know, near
the beach near the waterfront Early this morning, the bodies
of those that were killed were still lying where they
(03:57):
had fallen. A lot of people had come out to
to pay their respects to the victims and as well
as try and understand exactly what happened. You know, there
was a lot of people still processing how something so
horrible could happen in Sydney. There was also this outpouring
of support from, you know, local businesses. One one business,
the depot was giving away free coffee. There was a
(04:19):
lot of politicians and community leaders just sort of reiterating
this message of togetherness and calmness.
S7 (04:25):
And can you just remind us how this actually unfolded yesterday?
S9 (04:29):
So yesterday it was about 630, 640 in the in
the afternoon there were heaps of people swimming at Bondi. Um,
there was lots of the Jewish community out celebrating the
first day of Hanukkah with an event, um, Hanukkah by
the sea, when all of a sudden shots rang out.
So these two shooters had pulled up in their in
(04:50):
their car towards a footbridge near Campbell Parade and pulled
up in that car. Come out and run up on
the footbridge and started shooting at these festival attendees. Those
two shooters have since been identified as father and son duo.
So the father is Saeed Akram and the son is Akram.
The ages of 50 and 24. Um, they stood on
(05:10):
that footbridge firing until Saeed went down to the grass.
He was later followed by Navid. People ducked for cover.
Police were called within minutes and arrived within minutes. At
about 645. But it took, it seemed, around 45 minutes
to stop those shooters and fully apprehend them. Um, both
were injured. Uh, one was fatally shot. That we believe
is the father. Jay-Z and his son, Naveed Akram, was
(05:35):
taken into custody.
S7 (05:38):
And I think many of us saw footage, you know,
of one of the gunmen who appeared to be waving
other people away. Can you tell us about that?
S9 (05:46):
Yes. So that was the 24 year old son, Naveed Akram.
There's footage of him up on his bridge. Um, his
father's run down across the bridge to the grass, and
he appears to be waving people running behind him, sort
of away from the scene. It's not clear whether that's
what he was doing or, you know, whether he's telling
them to to stop yelling or be quiet. Um, it's
pretty unclear, but he's certainly seemed to be directing people
(06:08):
away out of the line of sight of of fire.
S7 (06:11):
Is there any suggestion that he was sort of waving
people that he didn't think were Jewish away, and that
he was sort of instead wanting to target Jewish people specifically?
I certainly don't know. That's the case. That's what people
have been sort of saying. And by people, I mean
not experts. But that's what people are sort of saying anecdotally.
Do we know, do we have any indication if that's
what was happening?
S9 (06:30):
We don't know for sure. I mean, it's easy to speculate.
It's certainly we can say that it was a Jewish
event and the Jewish community that was targeted, um, police
haven't said yet whether they've found a manifesto or anything,
you know, that's directly, um, pointing to what these people
were trying to do. But we can certainly say that
the Jewish community was targeted in this attack.
S7 (06:50):
And then there's another phenomenal moment, some phenomenal footage of
a man who was sheltering between some parked cars. And
he actually rushes towards one of the gunmen. He wrestles
the rifle away from him. Tell us what happened, because
it's certainly I mean, it's it's breathtaking.
S9 (07:04):
It's breathtaking. It's an incredible display of heroism and it's
incredible footage. It's this man who we've since identified as
Ahmed El Ahmed, who was a bystander at the scene,
who races up to, um, to one of the gunmen
and wrestles the the gun off him and sort of
aims it at him as the gunman runs away and
then leans the gun against a tree. So we found
(07:25):
out now that this this man, he owns a tobacco
shop and he was injured in the attack, and he's
having surgery at Saint George Hospital. Um, he's been lauded
by Anthony Albanese and, you know, US President Donald Trump
for his heroism and his bravery. It was incredibly impressive
scenes to, um, you know, run towards a man with
a very, very large gun and managed to take it
(07:47):
off him. And it's not clear, you know, how many
lives he saved, but he certainly slowed him down.
S7 (07:51):
And so was there actually any explosive devices in their car?
Because we've seen a lot of reports of explosive devices
that have been found.
S9 (07:59):
We now know that there were three explosive devices found.
We don't have further details on, you know, whether they were, um,
you know, whether they had the potential to be detonated
or what they were made of. Um, but police found
two devices on Sunday evening in that car that was
left on Campbell Parade, and a third device was located
(08:19):
in that car, um, today on Monday.
S7 (08:22):
And I guess tell us what happened when the police arrived.
S9 (08:25):
So police began firing at the gunmen who were both
on the on the bridge. One, um, is hit and
I believe that was the the father said, um, and
collapses and the other one appeared to be shot as well.
Now there is some footage of, um, a civilian running
up and attacking one of the gunmen. They appear to
kick him in the head, and that person was then
apprehended by police. Um police then descended on the gunman
(08:47):
and started administering aid to to keep them alive. So
we we know that Navid is in hospital under police
guard and may be charged once he is is a
little bit more recovered.
S7 (08:57):
Okay. And we're recording this late on Monday afternoon, so
can you just give us an update on the number
of casualties and wounded and what we know about them?
S9 (09:05):
Yeah. Of course. So it's been, um, 15 people have have, um,
tragically lost their lives, you know, plus that additional one
the shooter. So 16 dead total. Um, and there are
at least 40 injured, I believe, 42 in hospital. Um,
and the range of victims is is pretty heartbreaking. So
the youngest was just ten years old. Matilda. She's being
(09:26):
remembered as a very sweet girl. She was injured at
the scene and then, um, couldn't be saved. We also
know that there's Assistant Rabbi Eli Schlanger, who was a
husband and father of five. Um, and tragically, he tragically,
his youngest son, his youngest child was born just six
weeks ago. Uh, there was a French tourist who's travelling
the world, Dan Elkayam, who was in his late 20s.
(09:47):
He'd been in Australia, um, and was working, uh, for
a number of years here and was celebrating Hanukkah. We
also know there was Yakob Levitan, who was another rabbi
who lost his life, and Holocaust survivor and Ukraine native
Alex Kleitman.
S7 (10:02):
And a lot more is also known today about the
suspected gunman. So can you just tell me what we
now know about them?
S9 (10:08):
So we know it was a father son duo, which
was Sayeed and Naveed Akram, which ages 50 and 24.
Um Sayeed had a gun license and was found to
be a fit and proper person ten years ago to
hold his gun license and legally owned six firearms. He
was a member of a recreational gun club, which means
he could, um, he could have guns for for hunting
(10:30):
or recreation. We also know his son, Naveed, was a
bricklayer who was laid off about two months ago. Uh,
the pair told family that they were going on a
fishing trip for the weekend, which, um, wasn't uncommon for them.
They often went down to Jervis Bay to go fishing
and scuba diving. So they kept up this ruse with
the family and said that that's what they would be
doing for the weekend. Um, even on the morning of
(10:52):
the shooting, telling family, you know, lie saying that they
had been scuba diving and had been fishing and were
going to stay indoors because it was hot.
S7 (10:59):
And you've actually spoken to the mother of Naveed Akram?
He's the 24 year old suspected shooter. So can you
tell me how did that actually come about and what
did she tell you?
S9 (11:09):
So I was on the phone to Navid's mother and
Saeed's wife on on Sunday evening. She had no idea
what was going on. I was speaking to her as
police were arriving to her house and had yet to
knock on her door. And I was asking her questions about,
you know, her son, because he had been identified, um,
informally as the alleged shooter, someone I believe had found
(11:30):
his ID. Um, she had no idea that anything like
this was possible. She, you know, told me that he
was a good boy, that he never got into any trouble. He, um,
you know, went to work, came home and was an
avid exerciser, went outside for for runs and swims and
to the gym. Um, didn't appear to have a lot
of friends, but she also said he didn't appear to
spend a lot of time online and didn't seem to
(11:53):
have extremist ideologies. Um, she told me he was more
interested in fishing memes, and her husband worked or owned
a fruit and vegetable shop nearby. And again, they said
that they were on this fishing trip for the weekend.
S7 (12:05):
And what was her voice like on the phone? I mean,
did she sound shaken? Was she sort of shocked to
be answering these sorts of questions about her son.
S9 (12:13):
In complete disbelief? Um, and we didn't know at the
time Naveed hadn't been confirmed as one of the shooters. So,
you know, no one really knew. And it was just
talking to her about if she had heard or knew anything, um, in,
you know, complete disbelief. But then I, um, you know,
I asked if she would be comfortable identifying a photo
of of the alleged shooter at the scene, and, and
she said, yes, you know, she she said she wasn't
(12:35):
able to identify him. She said it looked different, but
you know, her voice started cracking and I think she
realized with so many police outside her house that, you know,
her family had been swept up in something, or her
family had been responsible for something, um, awful.
S7 (12:49):
And so tell us about how this pair actually had
access to guns. I know you mentioned a bit earlier
that one of them was a member of a recreational
gun club. Is that what accounts for their guns, or
was there other means of access?
S9 (13:00):
Well, we don't actually know for sure at this point.
Police haven't confirmed what guns were used. There appeared to
be multiple, um, you know, multiple large guns at the
scene and just a phenomenal amount of rounds. So how
they had access to this much ammunition, um, and which
guns were used and whether those guns were the guns
that um said was licensed to hold. It's still unclear
(13:20):
at this time.
S7 (13:21):
And tell us, I mean, were either of them known
to police or spy agencies?
S9 (13:24):
So Naveed Akram was known to police. Um, but they
they had no indication that, you know, this attack was
was imminent. He was assessed by ASIO, Australia's spy agency
in 2019. However, it's since come out that, uh, he
was the subject of the investigation because of the people
he associated with, um, rather than direct concerns about his
(13:47):
own character. So he was investigated, investigated for six months,
and then the investigation concluded with police, um, finding no,
no need to, um, keep monitoring him.
S7 (13:56):
And, of course, we're already seeing pressure on our leaders
to to enact change, to sort of prevent this sort
of horror from happening again. We know both Prime Minister
Anthony Albanese and New South Wales Premier Chris Minns today
said that they would toughen gun laws. So what did
they say needs to change?
S9 (14:12):
So Premier Chris Minns is considering recalling Parliament to reform
gun laws, laws to make it more difficult to own guns.
You know, he's saying that a firearm licence shouldn't be
in perpetuity. Exactly as said, um, you know, managed to
have his licence for ten years, that there needs to
be more reassessments. But he's also said that it's just
too early to go into the logistics of what kind
(14:34):
of reform could be on the table. Prime Minister Anthony
Albanese hosted on Monday afternoon a national cabinet to discuss
gun reform and gun laws. He also wants to limit
the number of firearms that people can own or be
licensed to use. Albanese also said that people can be
radicalised over a period of time, and reiterated that licences
(14:55):
should not be granted in perpetuity.
S7 (14:57):
And at the top of this episode, Amber, we featured
a member of the Jewish community. This is Jackie Cohen.
She's a mother of three, and she was at a
bar mitzvah next to where the attack took place on
Sunday evening. And one thing she spoke about was feeling
like she hasn't been sufficiently protected. So what have you
heard from the Jewish community during your reporting on this?
S9 (15:17):
There is frustration among a lot of members of the
Jewish community. CEO of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry,
Alex Ryvchin, had some pretty strong statements. You know, he
sort of said that for the past two years, the
writing has been on the wall, um, and that anti-Semitism
has been growing in Australia. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
(15:39):
has also criticised Australia for not taking enough steps to
protect the Jewish community. The Australian government and the New
South Wales Police have taken steps to, you know, extra measures,
extra police on the ground security measures to protect Australia's
Jewish community. So there has been response. But as this
event shows, there is the Jewish community has been targeted
(16:01):
and that the fear has rippled through the community and
a lot of people. It's a very palpable sense of fear,
and they feel that, you know, a lot of their
fears have been realized and that perhaps they weren't listened to.
But I just want to reiterate, you know, many of
the rabbis and community leaders have said that now is
not time for hate. Now is not the time for
blame or finger pointing. It is the time for unity,
(16:23):
for peace and calm and to come together and stay strong.
S7 (16:28):
Well, we're so, so lucky that you've been reporting on
the ground about this. So thank you so much, Amber,
for your time.
S9 (16:35):
Thanks for having me.
S7 (16:44):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Julia Carcasole.
Our executive producer is Tami Mills. Tom Mackendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered
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(17:07):
or smh.com.au. Subscribe. And to stay up to date, sign
up to our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary
of the day's most important news in your inbox every morning.
Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris,
thanks for listening.
I'm Elias Vazante. I'm a reporter at the Sydney Morning Herald,
and I was there at Bondi yesterday. I was swimming
in the water when the gunshots started ringing out. We
just raced out of the water and ran along with
hundreds of other people from the beach. Everyone's still dripping
(00:22):
in seawater. Sandy. People were taking cover behind garages and
unit blocks. It was a surreal experience.
S2 (00:35):
Get on the ground.
S1 (00:38):
It felt like the shots kept going for minutes. They
just didn't stop. It was excruciating. One of the thoughts
that bizarrely ran through my head as I was driving
away from the scene was the fact that my sandals
were still sitting on the sand, and then very quickly
(00:58):
you realize how insignificant that really is?
S3 (01:03):
It is Australia's worst mass shooting in nearly 30 years
after 50. Our coverage of the breaking news from Australia.
A fatal shooting which has killed.
S4 (01:12):
Were firing into crowds of people celebrating the start of
Hanukkah at a people.
S5 (01:16):
Ran for their lives when the firing began. Some taking shelter,
were behind the mass shooting at Sydney's Bondi Beach, which killed.
S4 (01:23):
15, specifically targeting those who were at that Hanukkah gathering.
S6 (01:28):
This is a targeted attack, an act of evil, anti-Semitism,
terrorism that has struck the heart of our nation.
S7 (01:43):
Like reporter Elias Vasanti, mother of three, Jackie Cohen was
also at Bondi yesterday. She parked her car right outside
the Hanukkah event, but then she and her 12 year
old daughter made their way up to a bar mitzvah
right next door when Sunday's massacre unfolded.
S8 (02:00):
In hindsight, I know I did hear the shots. The
thing that alerted me that there was a problem was
just seeing the sheer amount of people rushing towards us,
rushing out of the way.
S7 (02:11):
They crouched in a bathroom and waited.
S8 (02:14):
We couldn't see anything. We could just hear things so
we could hear that there was, you know, pandemonium happening outside.
One of the guys came in and told me that
there had been a shooting, and yeah, we were just
trying to remain calm and wait.
S7 (02:30):
Jackie's car is still parked there near where the Hanukkah
celebration was. Now the scene of the worst mass shooting
since the Port Arthur attack 30 years ago. For some
in the Jewish community, this is what they've been fearing
for years that a rising tide of anti-Semitism would lead
to such an attack, which has shattered any sense of security.
S8 (02:52):
So on the one hand, you think to yourself, well, why,
How could we put ourselves in this position? On the
other hand, why shouldn't we? Why shouldn't we be able
to exist and celebrate?
S7 (03:06):
Today. Crime and justice reporter Amber Schultz on what happened
at Bondi on Sunday night. What is known about the
suspected gunman and what happens from here? This is the
morning edition. I'm Samantha Sellinger Morris. So, Amber, you have
(03:30):
been at Bondi Beach reporting today. This is the day
after the attack. Can you just tell the listeners what
it's been like down there today?
S9 (03:37):
Yeah, so it was really eerie scenes early in the
morning this morning, there were still items that people had
left scattered on the beach when they fled. Um, from
when the guns started firing, um, those items were collected
and left along the concrete just near, you know, near
the beach near the waterfront Early this morning, the bodies
of those that were killed were still lying where they
(03:57):
had fallen. A lot of people had come out to
to pay their respects to the victims and as well
as try and understand exactly what happened. You know, there
was a lot of people still processing how something so
horrible could happen in Sydney. There was also this outpouring
of support from, you know, local businesses. One one business,
the depot was giving away free coffee. There was a
(04:19):
lot of politicians and community leaders just sort of reiterating
this message of togetherness and calmness.
S7 (04:25):
And can you just remind us how this actually unfolded yesterday?
S9 (04:29):
So yesterday it was about 630, 640 in the in
the afternoon there were heaps of people swimming at Bondi. Um,
there was lots of the Jewish community out celebrating the
first day of Hanukkah with an event, um, Hanukkah by
the sea, when all of a sudden shots rang out.
So these two shooters had pulled up in their in
(04:50):
their car towards a footbridge near Campbell Parade and pulled
up in that car. Come out and run up on
the footbridge and started shooting at these festival attendees. Those
two shooters have since been identified as father and son duo.
So the father is Saeed Akram and the son is Akram.
The ages of 50 and 24. Um, they stood on
(05:10):
that footbridge firing until Saeed went down to the grass.
He was later followed by Navid. People ducked for cover.
Police were called within minutes and arrived within minutes. At
about 645. But it took, it seemed, around 45 minutes
to stop those shooters and fully apprehend them. Um, both
were injured. Uh, one was fatally shot. That we believe
is the father. Jay-Z and his son, Naveed Akram, was
(05:35):
taken into custody.
S7 (05:38):
And I think many of us saw footage, you know,
of one of the gunmen who appeared to be waving
other people away. Can you tell us about that?
S9 (05:46):
Yes. So that was the 24 year old son, Naveed Akram.
There's footage of him up on his bridge. Um, his
father's run down across the bridge to the grass, and
he appears to be waving people running behind him, sort
of away from the scene. It's not clear whether that's
what he was doing or, you know, whether he's telling
them to to stop yelling or be quiet. Um, it's
pretty unclear, but he's certainly seemed to be directing people
(06:08):
away out of the line of sight of of fire.
S7 (06:11):
Is there any suggestion that he was sort of waving
people that he didn't think were Jewish away, and that
he was sort of instead wanting to target Jewish people specifically?
I certainly don't know. That's the case. That's what people
have been sort of saying. And by people, I mean
not experts. But that's what people are sort of saying anecdotally.
Do we know, do we have any indication if that's
what was happening?
S9 (06:30):
We don't know for sure. I mean, it's easy to speculate.
It's certainly we can say that it was a Jewish
event and the Jewish community that was targeted, um, police
haven't said yet whether they've found a manifesto or anything,
you know, that's directly, um, pointing to what these people
were trying to do. But we can certainly say that
the Jewish community was targeted in this attack.
S7 (06:50):
And then there's another phenomenal moment, some phenomenal footage of
a man who was sheltering between some parked cars. And
he actually rushes towards one of the gunmen. He wrestles
the rifle away from him. Tell us what happened, because
it's certainly I mean, it's it's breathtaking.
S9 (07:04):
It's breathtaking. It's an incredible display of heroism and it's
incredible footage. It's this man who we've since identified as
Ahmed El Ahmed, who was a bystander at the scene,
who races up to, um, to one of the gunmen
and wrestles the the gun off him and sort of
aims it at him as the gunman runs away and
then leans the gun against a tree. So we found
(07:25):
out now that this this man, he owns a tobacco
shop and he was injured in the attack, and he's
having surgery at Saint George Hospital. Um, he's been lauded
by Anthony Albanese and, you know, US President Donald Trump
for his heroism and his bravery. It was incredibly impressive
scenes to, um, you know, run towards a man with
a very, very large gun and managed to take it
(07:47):
off him. And it's not clear, you know, how many
lives he saved, but he certainly slowed him down.
S7 (07:51):
And so was there actually any explosive devices in their car?
Because we've seen a lot of reports of explosive devices
that have been found.
S9 (07:59):
We now know that there were three explosive devices found.
We don't have further details on, you know, whether they were, um,
you know, whether they had the potential to be detonated
or what they were made of. Um, but police found
two devices on Sunday evening in that car that was
left on Campbell Parade, and a third device was located
(08:19):
in that car, um, today on Monday.
S7 (08:22):
And I guess tell us what happened when the police arrived.
S9 (08:25):
So police began firing at the gunmen who were both
on the on the bridge. One, um, is hit and
I believe that was the the father said, um, and
collapses and the other one appeared to be shot as well.
Now there is some footage of, um, a civilian running
up and attacking one of the gunmen. They appear to
kick him in the head, and that person was then
apprehended by police. Um police then descended on the gunman
(08:47):
and started administering aid to to keep them alive. So
we we know that Navid is in hospital under police
guard and may be charged once he is is a
little bit more recovered.
S7 (08:57):
Okay. And we're recording this late on Monday afternoon, so
can you just give us an update on the number
of casualties and wounded and what we know about them?
S9 (09:05):
Yeah. Of course. So it's been, um, 15 people have have, um,
tragically lost their lives, you know, plus that additional one
the shooter. So 16 dead total. Um, and there are
at least 40 injured, I believe, 42 in hospital. Um,
and the range of victims is is pretty heartbreaking. So
the youngest was just ten years old. Matilda. She's being
(09:26):
remembered as a very sweet girl. She was injured at
the scene and then, um, couldn't be saved. We also
know that there's Assistant Rabbi Eli Schlanger, who was a
husband and father of five. Um, and tragically, he tragically,
his youngest son, his youngest child was born just six
weeks ago. Uh, there was a French tourist who's travelling
the world, Dan Elkayam, who was in his late 20s.
(09:47):
He'd been in Australia, um, and was working, uh, for
a number of years here and was celebrating Hanukkah. We
also know there was Yakob Levitan, who was another rabbi
who lost his life, and Holocaust survivor and Ukraine native
Alex Kleitman.
S7 (10:02):
And a lot more is also known today about the
suspected gunman. So can you just tell me what we
now know about them?
S9 (10:08):
So we know it was a father son duo, which
was Sayeed and Naveed Akram, which ages 50 and 24.
Um Sayeed had a gun license and was found to
be a fit and proper person ten years ago to
hold his gun license and legally owned six firearms. He
was a member of a recreational gun club, which means
he could, um, he could have guns for for hunting
(10:30):
or recreation. We also know his son, Naveed, was a
bricklayer who was laid off about two months ago. Uh,
the pair told family that they were going on a
fishing trip for the weekend, which, um, wasn't uncommon for them.
They often went down to Jervis Bay to go fishing
and scuba diving. So they kept up this ruse with
the family and said that that's what they would be
doing for the weekend. Um, even on the morning of
(10:52):
the shooting, telling family, you know, lie saying that they
had been scuba diving and had been fishing and were
going to stay indoors because it was hot.
S7 (10:59):
And you've actually spoken to the mother of Naveed Akram?
He's the 24 year old suspected shooter. So can you
tell me how did that actually come about and what
did she tell you?
S9 (11:09):
So I was on the phone to Navid's mother and
Saeed's wife on on Sunday evening. She had no idea
what was going on. I was speaking to her as
police were arriving to her house and had yet to
knock on her door. And I was asking her questions about,
you know, her son, because he had been identified, um,
informally as the alleged shooter, someone I believe had found
(11:30):
his ID. Um, she had no idea that anything like
this was possible. She, you know, told me that he
was a good boy, that he never got into any trouble. He, um,
you know, went to work, came home and was an
avid exerciser, went outside for for runs and swims and
to the gym. Um, didn't appear to have a lot
of friends, but she also said he didn't appear to
spend a lot of time online and didn't seem to
(11:53):
have extremist ideologies. Um, she told me he was more
interested in fishing memes, and her husband worked or owned
a fruit and vegetable shop nearby. And again, they said
that they were on this fishing trip for the weekend.
S7 (12:05):
And what was her voice like on the phone? I mean,
did she sound shaken? Was she sort of shocked to
be answering these sorts of questions about her son.
S9 (12:13):
In complete disbelief? Um, and we didn't know at the
time Naveed hadn't been confirmed as one of the shooters. So,
you know, no one really knew. And it was just
talking to her about if she had heard or knew anything, um, in,
you know, complete disbelief. But then I, um, you know,
I asked if she would be comfortable identifying a photo
of of the alleged shooter at the scene, and, and
she said, yes, you know, she she said she wasn't
(12:35):
able to identify him. She said it looked different, but
you know, her voice started cracking and I think she
realized with so many police outside her house that, you know,
her family had been swept up in something, or her
family had been responsible for something, um, awful.
S7 (12:49):
And so tell us about how this pair actually had
access to guns. I know you mentioned a bit earlier
that one of them was a member of a recreational
gun club. Is that what accounts for their guns, or
was there other means of access?
S9 (13:00):
Well, we don't actually know for sure at this point.
Police haven't confirmed what guns were used. There appeared to
be multiple, um, you know, multiple large guns at the
scene and just a phenomenal amount of rounds. So how
they had access to this much ammunition, um, and which
guns were used and whether those guns were the guns
that um said was licensed to hold. It's still unclear
(13:20):
at this time.
S7 (13:21):
And tell us, I mean, were either of them known
to police or spy agencies?
S9 (13:24):
So Naveed Akram was known to police. Um, but they
they had no indication that, you know, this attack was
was imminent. He was assessed by ASIO, Australia's spy agency
in 2019. However, it's since come out that, uh, he
was the subject of the investigation because of the people
he associated with, um, rather than direct concerns about his
(13:47):
own character. So he was investigated, investigated for six months,
and then the investigation concluded with police, um, finding no,
no need to, um, keep monitoring him.
S7 (13:56):
And, of course, we're already seeing pressure on our leaders
to to enact change, to sort of prevent this sort
of horror from happening again. We know both Prime Minister
Anthony Albanese and New South Wales Premier Chris Minns today
said that they would toughen gun laws. So what did
they say needs to change?
S9 (14:12):
So Premier Chris Minns is considering recalling Parliament to reform
gun laws, laws to make it more difficult to own guns.
You know, he's saying that a firearm licence shouldn't be
in perpetuity. Exactly as said, um, you know, managed to
have his licence for ten years, that there needs to
be more reassessments. But he's also said that it's just
too early to go into the logistics of what kind
(14:34):
of reform could be on the table. Prime Minister Anthony
Albanese hosted on Monday afternoon a national cabinet to discuss
gun reform and gun laws. He also wants to limit
the number of firearms that people can own or be
licensed to use. Albanese also said that people can be
radicalised over a period of time, and reiterated that licences
(14:55):
should not be granted in perpetuity.
S7 (14:57):
And at the top of this episode, Amber, we featured
a member of the Jewish community. This is Jackie Cohen.
She's a mother of three, and she was at a
bar mitzvah next to where the attack took place on
Sunday evening. And one thing she spoke about was feeling
like she hasn't been sufficiently protected. So what have you
heard from the Jewish community during your reporting on this?
S9 (15:17):
There is frustration among a lot of members of the
Jewish community. CEO of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry,
Alex Ryvchin, had some pretty strong statements. You know, he
sort of said that for the past two years, the
writing has been on the wall, um, and that anti-Semitism
has been growing in Australia. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
(15:39):
has also criticised Australia for not taking enough steps to
protect the Jewish community. The Australian government and the New
South Wales Police have taken steps to, you know, extra measures,
extra police on the ground security measures to protect Australia's
Jewish community. So there has been response. But as this
event shows, there is the Jewish community has been targeted
(16:01):
and that the fear has rippled through the community and
a lot of people. It's a very palpable sense of fear,
and they feel that, you know, a lot of their
fears have been realized and that perhaps they weren't listened to.
But I just want to reiterate, you know, many of
the rabbis and community leaders have said that now is
not time for hate. Now is not the time for
blame or finger pointing. It is the time for unity,
(16:23):
for peace and calm and to come together and stay strong.
S7 (16:28):
Well, we're so, so lucky that you've been reporting on
the ground about this. So thank you so much, Amber,
for your time.
S9 (16:35):
Thanks for having me.
S7 (16:44):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Julia Carcasole.
Our executive producer is Tami Mills. Tom Mackendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered
by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit the page
(17:07):
or smh.com.au. Subscribe. And to stay up to date, sign
up to our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary
of the day's most important news in your inbox every morning.
Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris,
thanks for listening.
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