Well, here we are, a new term of parliament begins next week. There’ll be fresh faces and, hopefully, fresh ideas.
So will the government use its massive majority to press ahead with major reforms in housing, or tax, and how will opposition leader Sussan Ley and her team rebuild their battered party?
Before we get to that, the news this week has been dominated by Anthony Albanese’s trip to China, which has been full of stage-managed warmth.
But with our very own Paul Sakkal away travelling with the PM, and our host Jacqueline Maley on a book tour, we have acting political editor Nick Bonyhady in the chair with special guests: Nine’s political editor Charles Croucher and CBD columnist Kishor Napier-Raman.
Subscribe to The Age & SMH: https://subscribe.smh.com.au/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:01):
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is inside politics. I'm Nick Bonyhady, acting federal editor,
and I'm filling in for Jacqueline Maley. It's Friday, July 18th. Well,
here we are. A new term of Parliament begins next
week in earnest. There'll be fresh faces and maybe some
fresh ideas. So will the government use its massive majority
(00:24):
to press ahead with major reforms in housing or tax?
And how will opposition leader Sussan Ley and her team
rebuild their battered party from the devastating election defeat that
they suffered in May? But before we get to that,
the news this week has been dominated by Prime Minister
Anthony Albanese's trip to China, which has been full of
stage managed warmth. He's been treated to a concert in
(00:46):
the Great Hall, with covers of Australian classics from Paul
Kelly to Midnight Oil, and got close to a panda.
But with our very own Paul Cicala travelling with the
Prime Minister, we'll have a couple of special guests. First up,
Nine's political editor, Charles Croucher and later CBD columnist Kishore
Napier Rahman. Welcome. Thanks. Now, Charles, it feels like half
(01:08):
the press gallery is in China this week. There's been banquets, handshakes,
a trip to the Great Wall just now, some cuddly
pandas and an unfortunate run in with some security personnel.
What's it been like for the journalists on the ground
in China?
S2 (01:23):
Well, look, the one thing they've had this trip, which
is probably in contrast to the rest of the prime
ministerial trips we get, is a bit of time in
six days on the ground. I think it's roughly six days. Um,
is an awfully long time for an international trip. I
can't remember the last time the Prime Minister spent that
long in one country without having to jump around or
move around. I think might have been the Queen's funeral,
(01:44):
so there would have been a better understanding from the
reporters over there of what's going on. Um, you're stretching
out a trip that didn't have the importance that perhaps
the last two trips to China have had because the
relationship was so soured. So to have things back on track,
it's it's a nice freedom to actually explore some of
the issues because there are lots. Yeah, we saw the
(02:05):
the run in with the security guard. I think that's
a pretty good reflection of maybe the lighter side of
life over there.
S3 (02:09):
Behind me, the local authorities, they are surrounding the Australian
press after we filmed our initial piece to cameras there
saying that we can't leave the area. And they're also
asking if they can take our camera.
S2 (02:19):
Because I'm sure if it was a Chinese reporter doing
reporting at the same place without permission, the response would
be very different. And, um, it's a good reminder of that.
You know, this is a still a regime that, um,
has some pretty contrasting values to Australia and even America's
when it comes to the freedom of the press. But
(02:40):
on the same note, the fact these trips are going
on is a good sign for the relationship because it
needed to start back up again.
S1 (02:46):
And Anthony Albanese seems to have had a fantastic time there.
Duchess by some of his favourite music playing in the
Great Hall.
S4 (02:54):
Uh, played, uh, a different version of, uh, Paul Kelly's
to her door of Midnight Oil's power and the passion.
S1 (03:03):
That's quite a contrast to the reception that the Morrison
government got after. It was quite assertive about China's foreign
policy and about the origins of the coronavirus. What's really
been the tone of this?
S2 (03:17):
Well, it's different. I mean, it is clearly a different
relationship than the one that the Morrison government had. Now,
whether that is because the person at the chop changed
or time got in the way. Who knows? And we
won't know. But President XI, I think, called it a
setback the way he sort of described the Morrison government
(03:37):
and their relationship during that time.
S5 (03:39):
Good to see you.
S6 (03:40):
Inside the Great Hall of the people, a prime minister
and a president of two countries. Briefly. Foes. Now friends.
S7 (03:49):
The China-Australia relationship has rose from the setback and turned around.
S2 (03:54):
So having that change in power here in Canberra allowed
the reset, I think probably. Well, China thought it was
really putting the thumb on Australia when it came to
some of those tariffs. While it's affected individual industries, they
were able to find other markets largely. I know the
wine guys are still doing it pretty tough. Um, but
it sort of stress test Australia when it comes to
(04:15):
our ability to cope with tariffs, which is coming in
handy now. There are still obvious issues in the relationship
on the defense side and some of the things in
the Indo-Pacific. But for trade, at least, it's getting back
on the right foot and hopefully building up that market again,
not just for those industries that were affected. You know,
the crayfish, beef, certainly wine, but but for the other
(04:38):
industries as well, because at the time when we might
need new markets and so might China.
S1 (04:44):
So the trade relationship has stabilised. The bonhomie of the
trip was on full display in all those ways we
talked about, but there's been no really significant trade deals
out of this trip. There's been some memoranda signed an
opposition Susan Lee and her colleagues have been accusing the
(05:05):
Prime minister of being a bit self-indulgent and not walking
away with tangible outcomes.
S8 (05:10):
He didn't get the assurances that he should about the
unacceptable nature of the circumnavigation of Australia by the Chinese
Communist Party's navy warships in February.
S1 (05:25):
What do you make of that criticism?
S2 (05:27):
Well, I think the argument will be he's walking away
with jobs, and that's the argument the Prime Minister will make.
And a benefit would be to the Prime Minister, but
certainly not to the rest of the country, is we
had the unemployment numbers come in this week, and they
were much higher, sort of 4.3% seasonally adjusted. So that
means that we need to find the jobs, you know,
full time positions are falling. So stabilizing that relationship. I
(05:49):
think this is something the Albanese government realised they're on
a winner with this one. When it comes to Pacific
and getting China back on track, everyone sees it. And
while I think most Australians would look at some of
the actions of China, particularly the PLA, in the waters
to our north and around Australia. They realise that we
can sell them lobsters and wine and, um, iron ore.
(06:12):
It's not going to change the approach that China has
to the region. So let's sell it to them, take
the money and fund our defence, and also open that
line of communication, which might be the way of changing
the way China approaches the region and the world. At
least you've got the line of communication there. So, eh,
you can influence maybe you know, that's probably the optimistic view.
(06:33):
But worst case scenario, if something does go wrong, you
can have that line of communication that can prevent, um, miscalculation,
a misstep by someone on the Chinese front from turning
into a war.
S1 (06:45):
You're talking about the PLA. That's the People's Liberation Army
and their vessels that circumnavigated Australia and conducted live firing
exercises with very little notice between here and New Zealand,
one of many points of tension in the relationship. Do
you think we'll ever go beyond this language of Stabilization
into a warmer partnership? Or is this really as far
(07:07):
as we're likely to travel?
S2 (07:08):
Well, certainly the the approach from China has been they
want to see it further. And this was more generous
in language than I think they've been since, probably Malcolm
Turnbull or even Tony Abbott, when the relationship was really
singing in that free trade agreement was signed up. There
is still the obvious, um, impediment, which is America, right?
(07:29):
Which I'm sure you know, everyone's spoken about here and elsewhere,
that if things continue to get more and more tense
between America and China, well, then Australia's more and more
forced to pick a side. And that won't be China.
So the fact that Australia hasn't been forced to pick
a side, despite the best efforts of some in the
(07:49):
white House this week.
S9 (07:51):
Tempo of the visit was disrupted by news from DC,
the Financial Times reporting top Pentagon official Elbridge Colby has
been pushing Australia and Japan to say whether they'd assist
the US if it went to war with China over Taiwan.
S2 (08:06):
Australia's managed to, as much as it can, not wade
into that conflict at the moment and try and walk
both sides. How long you can do it? We don't know,
but as long as we can, I think Australia will.
And even even Susan Lee and Angus Taylor recognised that
and said that this week.
S1 (08:24):
Albaneses trip to China wrapped up on Thursday. He's back
in Australia today, Friday and straight back into Parliament next week.
What does he face in that sitting period? The coalition
are trying to rebuild from an absolute walloping at the
last election. Labor's got a remarkably large agenda. Can we
(08:44):
expect to see them be more optimistic in that first
sitting week?
S2 (08:49):
Yeah, I would assume so. And I would assume there
is a stability, um, that this government has that no
government's really had since probably John Howard. Now, um, I
was doing a talk with some, um, year five kids
doing government studies the other day. And one of them asked,
you know, what's been the one bit of policy we've got, right?
(09:10):
And I was sort of trying to think of something
good for them. And it was really hard. And I
realized that for their whole life they've had this instability. Right?
We had Rudd, but Rudd came in with all this
hope and promise. Um, and then was hit with the GFC.
And then Julia Gillard, then Julia Gillard always had to
look over her shoulder at Kevin Rudd. And then in
comes Tony Abbott. And again he had Malcolm Turnbull. Malcolm
(09:32):
Turnbull had Tony Abbott. And then he goes Scott Morrison
comes in. It was what the Betoota advocate called the
night watchman. So he was just there for a short time.
Then he wins the surprise election. All of a sudden
there's a mandate but there's also Covid. And so that
robs him of that opportunity. Anthony Albanese takes over. It's
a slim majority. He's got inflation. Uh, he got hit
with cost of living and the voice. And so now,
(09:53):
for the first time in those kids lives, and for
a lot of people, there is a stability that would
allow a government to plan, maybe not three years in events,
but six years in advance, which is certainly the way
they're talking, and some of the departmental staff are talking
as well. So if Labour can't take this opportunity, they're
never going to have an opportunity. Mhm. Um and never
(10:13):
take one. This is the moment for them. And unlike
almost all of his predecessors this century, Anthony Albanese isn't
looking over his shoulder at who's plotting and who's thinking
about rolling him because they've all lived through the Rudd-gillard-rudd
years and how tough that's been. He's not worried about
a by election or a state election. There is a
freedom there. Now, whether they take advantage, we don't know.
(10:36):
But this is the opportunity for anyone to do that.
S1 (10:39):
And in that first sitting week, we're looking at potentially
legislation on improving safety standards in the childcare industry, cutting
hex and maybe building towards the roundtable on productivity that
the treasurer is focusing on. What's the opposition going to
be doing after their massive battering loss?
S2 (10:59):
Well, that's the big question, right? What does that look
like and what does how does the opposition go about opposing. Um,
Anthony Albanese was pretty successful, as it turns out. I
guess the election would say was successful. You know, um,
when it comes to brandishing Peter Dutton for his negativity
and that idea of the coalition that's gone now, um,
what Sussan Ley does as opposition leader, where she picks
(11:22):
and the issue she chooses to push back on will
be interesting. The election is probably glossed over. The fact
there is still a cost of living struggle in Australia
and people are still doing it. Tough real wages on
the way up. Um, inflation is down, but still, we're
still catching up from a long time of hurt, um,
in the last few years. So that would still be
(11:43):
the main issue as it was before the election. It
should still be now. As for beyond that, you know,
that's for the opposition to decide. It's a greatly diminished opposition.
You have to work out what the tactics are, what
the the character of the Liberal Party is. They're doing
a review and listening tours, a couple of reviews internally
to figure that out. And if you can't figure that
(12:04):
out amongst your own party room, it's hard to figure
it out in the parliament. So it's going to rely
a lot of people almost playing it by ear, and
that can be risky. Or it can be the pressure
test that's needed to to find out what this group
of liberals, and therefore the Liberal Party more broadly, might
stand for.
S1 (12:22):
Charles, thank you very much for coming on the podcast.
Thanks for having me. I believe it's potentially also happy birthday.
S2 (12:27):
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Nice way to spend it.
S1 (12:33):
Now I want to bring in Kishore Napier Rahman who
heads these mastheads daily column CBD, covering all inside information
on people in power in the country. Kishore, welcome to
the podcast.
S10 (12:44):
G'day, Nick. Great to be here.
S1 (12:46):
You're not in the Canberra bubble, so as a bit
of an outsider looking in, are you excited about Parliament restarting?
Is that a great source for your column?
S10 (12:55):
Look, I might not be in the Canberra bubble, but
a big part of my daily life is to try
to make the Canberra bubble and to make all the
things that happen in the corridors of power exciting for
the average reader. So something I'm really looking out for is, well,
we've got a big, big change in Parliament. You've got
a new class of fresh faced MPs coming in. Um,
(13:16):
and something I'm interested in is not only figuring out
who the new kind of rising stars in federal politics are,
but but who are the new kind of mavericks coming
onto the political scene? I mean, say what you will
about their politics, but people like Barnaby Joyce and Bob
Katter are kind of getting on. They're not going to
be around forever. So who we're going to be the
new kind of colourful, um, slightly, uh, juicy faces who
(13:39):
are going to be landing on the political scene. What
are they going to look like? What are they going
to act like? Where is the, uh, colour and excitement
going to come from in Canberra?
S1 (13:48):
I'd hate to dob anyone the next Barnaby Joyce or
Bob Katter because they're such irreplaceable figures. But if you
had to nominate some people who will bring a bit
of colour or movement to Parliament, who would that be?
S10 (13:59):
Yeah, look, Bob and Barnaby are. They don't make them
like that anymore. And, uh, for better or for worse,
they're both two of a kind. Um, people that are
will be worth keeping an eye on. I mean, Charlotte
Walker has become Australia's youngest ever senator. Um, elected as
a labor senator for South Australia at the ripe old
age of 21. Um, and, you know, federal politics in
(14:20):
Australia is very rarely a game that, uh, young people
are well represented in. So it'll be fascinating to see a,
a Zuma in parliament, a 21 year old in parliament
and how she fares. That could be really interesting. Um,
on the labor side, you've got figures like Sam Ray
and Daniel Merlino moving into the kind of ministry or
the outer ministry, I think, who have both been touted
(14:40):
as party rising stars who have broken in, um, they're
kind of considered the real future crop of leadership material
on the labor side. So it'll be interesting to see
how some of those new figures fare as well. But
beyond that, I'm also really intrigued as to what happens, uh,
to the Liberal Party. Now, I've been reporting a lot
on the kind of internal divisions within that party over
(15:02):
the last three years, and it will be fascinating to
see how it operates under Susan Lee's leadership now. Um,
Lee obviously became Liberal leader by about, like four votes.
Two of them. One is Giselle Kapp. Tyrion, who, barring
some kind of courtroom voodoo, is not going to be
an MP. And the other is Holly Hughes, whose term
in Parliament is finished up and she was replaced by
someone loyal to Lee's rival, Angus Taylor. So how does
(15:25):
Susan keep together a party room that's full of bruised
egos and miserable ghosts, and chart a path forward to
the Liberal Party? Does she even stick around to the
next election? She's been surprising people who've underestimated her for
a long time, so it'll be fascinating to see how
the opposition kind of picks up after that.
S1 (15:42):
As well as those big players in their own right.
You've been doing very persistent coverage of the Svengalis who
run politicians offices and their media behind the scenes, and
in particular in the Prime Minister's office. Can you tell
us about some of the notable moves that you've been
tracking over the last few weeks and months?
S10 (16:03):
Look, a politician is only as good as their backroom operators,
and in the period after an election, as is so
often the case, there's been a big, big turnover in
terms of a lot of those backroom operators moving on
for greener pastures. And that's been particularly true, in fact,
in the office of the Prime minister. So Catherine Murphy,
a very senior figure in the Prime Minister's office, who
(16:26):
was obviously familiar to people as the political editor of
the Guardian Australia, well known and respected journalist, often on insiders,
joined Albaneses office as a press secretary last year, departed
shortly after the election. There have been a few other
quite senior departures from Albaneses office, but also across the ministry,
Penny Wong's chief of staff and head of media. Moving on.
(16:46):
So a lot of people kind of leaving after the election. Now,
in some ways you might think, well, you've worked so
hard to win this election campaign. It's like making a
putting all this time and effort into making a delicious
cake and then deciding you don't want to eat the cake.
You're going to go for some ice cream or something instead.
To use a slightly tortured analogy, It's strange to see
(17:07):
all these people leaving after such a big election victory
on the one hand, but on the other. Look, a
lot of people are pretty burnt out. It's a grueling, grueling,
high pressure period they've been through. And, you know, you
get a better payout if you leave right after the
election as a staffer. And for a lot of them
who come in as these fresh faced true believers, after
doing your time in the the kind of pressure cooker
(17:27):
of politics you can move on and double your salary
working in government relations and lobbying. So, you know, there
are all kinds of reasons why people are leaving elections.
Bring around refresh, not just in terms of who is
sitting on the benches in Parliament, but who is working
behind the scenes. It's it's really often a young person's job.
I mean, you don't see too many people over the
age of 35 doing it because it is often quite
(17:49):
thankless and fast paced and high pressure. So there is
always like a lot of churn. Um, but, you know,
when experience departs, when it moves on, um, everyone's got
to find a way to rebuild. And I think with
Labour in such a kind of strong assailant position, there
will be no shortage of young, fresh faced true believers
(18:09):
ready to jump on the train.
S1 (18:11):
So are we essentially saying a generation of staffers hit
middle age, have perhaps children and a mortgage, want to
seek out a more stable life and better working hours?
Or is this reflective of some kind of unusual level
of dysfunction or personality clashes or anything like that within
the government?
S10 (18:31):
Yeah, I think it's probably premature to to paint this
as a sort of labour in crisis, internal turmoil kind
of thing. I mean, there's a long history of Labour
having internal crises while in government, but I think this
one internally has been relatively stable. Um, that that is
across government and within offices. I mean, there are always
sort of tensions, there are always personality clashes. That is
(18:52):
just a sort of stark reality of the job, especially
somewhere as high pressure and as tense and as adversarial
as federal politics. That's always going to happen. But I
think it it is premature to say that this is
a source or a cause of tension. That said, people
have put to me that there has been maybe a
slightly unusually high level of turnover in the Prime Minister's office,
(19:13):
but but really it yeah, it, it's sort of a
multitude of factors all kind of coming home to roost
at the same time really, I would say.
S1 (19:23):
Kishore, thank you very much for joining the podcast.
S10 (19:25):
My pleasure.
S1 (19:28):
Today's episode was produced by Tammy Mills with technical assistance
from Debbie Harrington and Chee Wong. To listen to our
episodes as soon as they drop, follow Inside Politics on Apple, Spotify,
or anywhere else you listen to your podcasts. To stay
up to date with all the politics, news and exclusives,
visit The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald websites. To
(19:48):
support our journalism, subscribe to us by visiting The Age or.
I'm Nick Bonyhady. Thanks for listening.
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is inside politics. I'm Nick Bonyhady, acting federal editor,
and I'm filling in for Jacqueline Maley. It's Friday, July 18th. Well,
here we are. A new term of Parliament begins next
week in earnest. There'll be fresh faces and maybe some
fresh ideas. So will the government use its massive majority
(00:24):
to press ahead with major reforms in housing or tax?
And how will opposition leader Sussan Ley and her team
rebuild their battered party from the devastating election defeat that
they suffered in May? But before we get to that,
the news this week has been dominated by Prime Minister
Anthony Albanese's trip to China, which has been full of
stage managed warmth. He's been treated to a concert in
(00:46):
the Great Hall, with covers of Australian classics from Paul
Kelly to Midnight Oil, and got close to a panda.
But with our very own Paul Cicala travelling with the
Prime Minister, we'll have a couple of special guests. First up,
Nine's political editor, Charles Croucher and later CBD columnist Kishore
Napier Rahman. Welcome. Thanks. Now, Charles, it feels like half
(01:08):
the press gallery is in China this week. There's been banquets, handshakes,
a trip to the Great Wall just now, some cuddly
pandas and an unfortunate run in with some security personnel.
What's it been like for the journalists on the ground
in China?
S2 (01:23):
Well, look, the one thing they've had this trip, which
is probably in contrast to the rest of the prime
ministerial trips we get, is a bit of time in
six days on the ground. I think it's roughly six days. Um,
is an awfully long time for an international trip. I
can't remember the last time the Prime Minister spent that
long in one country without having to jump around or
move around. I think might have been the Queen's funeral,
(01:44):
so there would have been a better understanding from the
reporters over there of what's going on. Um, you're stretching
out a trip that didn't have the importance that perhaps
the last two trips to China have had because the
relationship was so soured. So to have things back on track,
it's it's a nice freedom to actually explore some of
the issues because there are lots. Yeah, we saw the
(02:05):
the run in with the security guard. I think that's
a pretty good reflection of maybe the lighter side of
life over there.
S3 (02:09):
Behind me, the local authorities, they are surrounding the Australian
press after we filmed our initial piece to cameras there
saying that we can't leave the area. And they're also
asking if they can take our camera.
S2 (02:19):
Because I'm sure if it was a Chinese reporter doing
reporting at the same place without permission, the response would
be very different. And, um, it's a good reminder of that.
You know, this is a still a regime that, um,
has some pretty contrasting values to Australia and even America's
when it comes to the freedom of the press. But
(02:40):
on the same note, the fact these trips are going
on is a good sign for the relationship because it
needed to start back up again.
S1 (02:46):
And Anthony Albanese seems to have had a fantastic time there.
Duchess by some of his favourite music playing in the
Great Hall.
S4 (02:54):
Uh, played, uh, a different version of, uh, Paul Kelly's
to her door of Midnight Oil's power and the passion.
S1 (03:03):
That's quite a contrast to the reception that the Morrison
government got after. It was quite assertive about China's foreign
policy and about the origins of the coronavirus. What's really
been the tone of this?
S2 (03:17):
Well, it's different. I mean, it is clearly a different
relationship than the one that the Morrison government had. Now,
whether that is because the person at the chop changed
or time got in the way. Who knows? And we
won't know. But President XI, I think, called it a
setback the way he sort of described the Morrison government
(03:37):
and their relationship during that time.
S5 (03:39):
Good to see you.
S6 (03:40):
Inside the Great Hall of the people, a prime minister
and a president of two countries. Briefly. Foes. Now friends.
S7 (03:49):
The China-Australia relationship has rose from the setback and turned around.
S2 (03:54):
So having that change in power here in Canberra allowed
the reset, I think probably. Well, China thought it was
really putting the thumb on Australia when it came to
some of those tariffs. While it's affected individual industries, they
were able to find other markets largely. I know the
wine guys are still doing it pretty tough. Um, but
it sort of stress test Australia when it comes to
(04:15):
our ability to cope with tariffs, which is coming in
handy now. There are still obvious issues in the relationship
on the defense side and some of the things in
the Indo-Pacific. But for trade, at least, it's getting back
on the right foot and hopefully building up that market again,
not just for those industries that were affected. You know,
the crayfish, beef, certainly wine, but but for the other
(04:38):
industries as well, because at the time when we might
need new markets and so might China.
S1 (04:44):
So the trade relationship has stabilised. The bonhomie of the
trip was on full display in all those ways we
talked about, but there's been no really significant trade deals
out of this trip. There's been some memoranda signed an
opposition Susan Lee and her colleagues have been accusing the
(05:05):
Prime minister of being a bit self-indulgent and not walking
away with tangible outcomes.
S8 (05:10):
He didn't get the assurances that he should about the
unacceptable nature of the circumnavigation of Australia by the Chinese
Communist Party's navy warships in February.
S1 (05:25):
What do you make of that criticism?
S2 (05:27):
Well, I think the argument will be he's walking away
with jobs, and that's the argument the Prime Minister will make.
And a benefit would be to the Prime Minister, but
certainly not to the rest of the country, is we
had the unemployment numbers come in this week, and they
were much higher, sort of 4.3% seasonally adjusted. So that
means that we need to find the jobs, you know,
full time positions are falling. So stabilizing that relationship. I
(05:49):
think this is something the Albanese government realised they're on
a winner with this one. When it comes to Pacific
and getting China back on track, everyone sees it. And
while I think most Australians would look at some of
the actions of China, particularly the PLA, in the waters
to our north and around Australia. They realise that we
can sell them lobsters and wine and, um, iron ore.
(06:12):
It's not going to change the approach that China has
to the region. So let's sell it to them, take
the money and fund our defence, and also open that
line of communication, which might be the way of changing
the way China approaches the region and the world. At
least you've got the line of communication there. So, eh,
you can influence maybe you know, that's probably the optimistic view.
(06:33):
But worst case scenario, if something does go wrong, you
can have that line of communication that can prevent, um, miscalculation,
a misstep by someone on the Chinese front from turning
into a war.
S1 (06:45):
You're talking about the PLA. That's the People's Liberation Army
and their vessels that circumnavigated Australia and conducted live firing
exercises with very little notice between here and New Zealand,
one of many points of tension in the relationship. Do
you think we'll ever go beyond this language of Stabilization
into a warmer partnership? Or is this really as far
(07:07):
as we're likely to travel?
S2 (07:08):
Well, certainly the the approach from China has been they
want to see it further. And this was more generous
in language than I think they've been since, probably Malcolm
Turnbull or even Tony Abbott, when the relationship was really
singing in that free trade agreement was signed up. There
is still the obvious, um, impediment, which is America, right?
(07:29):
Which I'm sure you know, everyone's spoken about here and elsewhere,
that if things continue to get more and more tense
between America and China, well, then Australia's more and more
forced to pick a side. And that won't be China.
So the fact that Australia hasn't been forced to pick
a side, despite the best efforts of some in the
(07:49):
white House this week.
S9 (07:51):
Tempo of the visit was disrupted by news from DC,
the Financial Times reporting top Pentagon official Elbridge Colby has
been pushing Australia and Japan to say whether they'd assist
the US if it went to war with China over Taiwan.
S2 (08:06):
Australia's managed to, as much as it can, not wade
into that conflict at the moment and try and walk
both sides. How long you can do it? We don't know,
but as long as we can, I think Australia will.
And even even Susan Lee and Angus Taylor recognised that
and said that this week.
S1 (08:24):
Albaneses trip to China wrapped up on Thursday. He's back
in Australia today, Friday and straight back into Parliament next week.
What does he face in that sitting period? The coalition
are trying to rebuild from an absolute walloping at the
last election. Labor's got a remarkably large agenda. Can we
(08:44):
expect to see them be more optimistic in that first
sitting week?
S2 (08:49):
Yeah, I would assume so. And I would assume there
is a stability, um, that this government has that no
government's really had since probably John Howard. Now, um, I
was doing a talk with some, um, year five kids
doing government studies the other day. And one of them asked,
you know, what's been the one bit of policy we've got, right?
(09:10):
And I was sort of trying to think of something
good for them. And it was really hard. And I
realized that for their whole life they've had this instability. Right?
We had Rudd, but Rudd came in with all this
hope and promise. Um, and then was hit with the GFC.
And then Julia Gillard, then Julia Gillard always had to
look over her shoulder at Kevin Rudd. And then in
comes Tony Abbott. And again he had Malcolm Turnbull. Malcolm
(09:32):
Turnbull had Tony Abbott. And then he goes Scott Morrison
comes in. It was what the Betoota advocate called the
night watchman. So he was just there for a short time.
Then he wins the surprise election. All of a sudden
there's a mandate but there's also Covid. And so that
robs him of that opportunity. Anthony Albanese takes over. It's
a slim majority. He's got inflation. Uh, he got hit
with cost of living and the voice. And so now,
(09:53):
for the first time in those kids lives, and for
a lot of people, there is a stability that would
allow a government to plan, maybe not three years in events,
but six years in advance, which is certainly the way
they're talking, and some of the departmental staff are talking
as well. So if Labour can't take this opportunity, they're
never going to have an opportunity. Mhm. Um and never
(10:13):
take one. This is the moment for them. And unlike
almost all of his predecessors this century, Anthony Albanese isn't
looking over his shoulder at who's plotting and who's thinking
about rolling him because they've all lived through the Rudd-gillard-rudd
years and how tough that's been. He's not worried about
a by election or a state election. There is a
freedom there. Now, whether they take advantage, we don't know.
(10:36):
But this is the opportunity for anyone to do that.
S1 (10:39):
And in that first sitting week, we're looking at potentially
legislation on improving safety standards in the childcare industry, cutting
hex and maybe building towards the roundtable on productivity that
the treasurer is focusing on. What's the opposition going to
be doing after their massive battering loss?
S2 (10:59):
Well, that's the big question, right? What does that look
like and what does how does the opposition go about opposing. Um,
Anthony Albanese was pretty successful, as it turns out. I
guess the election would say was successful. You know, um,
when it comes to brandishing Peter Dutton for his negativity
and that idea of the coalition that's gone now, um,
what Sussan Ley does as opposition leader, where she picks
(11:22):
and the issue she chooses to push back on will
be interesting. The election is probably glossed over. The fact
there is still a cost of living struggle in Australia
and people are still doing it. Tough real wages on
the way up. Um, inflation is down, but still, we're
still catching up from a long time of hurt, um,
in the last few years. So that would still be
(11:43):
the main issue as it was before the election. It
should still be now. As for beyond that, you know,
that's for the opposition to decide. It's a greatly diminished opposition.
You have to work out what the tactics are, what
the the character of the Liberal Party is. They're doing
a review and listening tours, a couple of reviews internally
to figure that out. And if you can't figure that
(12:04):
out amongst your own party room, it's hard to figure
it out in the parliament. So it's going to rely
a lot of people almost playing it by ear, and
that can be risky. Or it can be the pressure
test that's needed to to find out what this group
of liberals, and therefore the Liberal Party more broadly, might
stand for.
S1 (12:22):
Charles, thank you very much for coming on the podcast.
Thanks for having me. I believe it's potentially also happy birthday.
S2 (12:27):
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Nice way to spend it.
S1 (12:33):
Now I want to bring in Kishore Napier Rahman who
heads these mastheads daily column CBD, covering all inside information
on people in power in the country. Kishore, welcome to
the podcast.
S10 (12:44):
G'day, Nick. Great to be here.
S1 (12:46):
You're not in the Canberra bubble, so as a bit
of an outsider looking in, are you excited about Parliament restarting?
Is that a great source for your column?
S10 (12:55):
Look, I might not be in the Canberra bubble, but
a big part of my daily life is to try
to make the Canberra bubble and to make all the
things that happen in the corridors of power exciting for
the average reader. So something I'm really looking out for is, well,
we've got a big, big change in Parliament. You've got
a new class of fresh faced MPs coming in. Um,
(13:16):
and something I'm interested in is not only figuring out
who the new kind of rising stars in federal politics are,
but but who are the new kind of mavericks coming
onto the political scene? I mean, say what you will
about their politics, but people like Barnaby Joyce and Bob
Katter are kind of getting on. They're not going to
be around forever. So who we're going to be the
new kind of colourful, um, slightly, uh, juicy faces who
(13:39):
are going to be landing on the political scene. What
are they going to look like? What are they going
to act like? Where is the, uh, colour and excitement
going to come from in Canberra?
S1 (13:48):
I'd hate to dob anyone the next Barnaby Joyce or
Bob Katter because they're such irreplaceable figures. But if you
had to nominate some people who will bring a bit
of colour or movement to Parliament, who would that be?
S10 (13:59):
Yeah, look, Bob and Barnaby are. They don't make them
like that anymore. And, uh, for better or for worse,
they're both two of a kind. Um, people that are
will be worth keeping an eye on. I mean, Charlotte
Walker has become Australia's youngest ever senator. Um, elected as
a labor senator for South Australia at the ripe old
age of 21. Um, and, you know, federal politics in
(14:20):
Australia is very rarely a game that, uh, young people
are well represented in. So it'll be fascinating to see a,
a Zuma in parliament, a 21 year old in parliament
and how she fares. That could be really interesting. Um,
on the labor side, you've got figures like Sam Ray
and Daniel Merlino moving into the kind of ministry or
the outer ministry, I think, who have both been touted
(14:40):
as party rising stars who have broken in, um, they're
kind of considered the real future crop of leadership material
on the labor side. So it'll be interesting to see
how some of those new figures fare as well. But
beyond that, I'm also really intrigued as to what happens, uh,
to the Liberal Party. Now, I've been reporting a lot
on the kind of internal divisions within that party over
(15:02):
the last three years, and it will be fascinating to
see how it operates under Susan Lee's leadership now. Um,
Lee obviously became Liberal leader by about, like four votes.
Two of them. One is Giselle Kapp. Tyrion, who, barring
some kind of courtroom voodoo, is not going to be
an MP. And the other is Holly Hughes, whose term
in Parliament is finished up and she was replaced by
someone loyal to Lee's rival, Angus Taylor. So how does
(15:25):
Susan keep together a party room that's full of bruised
egos and miserable ghosts, and chart a path forward to
the Liberal Party? Does she even stick around to the
next election? She's been surprising people who've underestimated her for
a long time, so it'll be fascinating to see how
the opposition kind of picks up after that.
S1 (15:42):
As well as those big players in their own right.
You've been doing very persistent coverage of the Svengalis who
run politicians offices and their media behind the scenes, and
in particular in the Prime Minister's office. Can you tell
us about some of the notable moves that you've been
tracking over the last few weeks and months?
S10 (16:03):
Look, a politician is only as good as their backroom operators,
and in the period after an election, as is so
often the case, there's been a big, big turnover in
terms of a lot of those backroom operators moving on
for greener pastures. And that's been particularly true, in fact,
in the office of the Prime minister. So Catherine Murphy,
a very senior figure in the Prime Minister's office, who
(16:26):
was obviously familiar to people as the political editor of
the Guardian Australia, well known and respected journalist, often on insiders,
joined Albaneses office as a press secretary last year, departed
shortly after the election. There have been a few other
quite senior departures from Albaneses office, but also across the ministry,
Penny Wong's chief of staff and head of media. Moving on.
(16:46):
So a lot of people kind of leaving after the election. Now,
in some ways you might think, well, you've worked so
hard to win this election campaign. It's like making a
putting all this time and effort into making a delicious
cake and then deciding you don't want to eat the cake.
You're going to go for some ice cream or something instead.
To use a slightly tortured analogy, It's strange to see
(17:07):
all these people leaving after such a big election victory
on the one hand, but on the other. Look, a
lot of people are pretty burnt out. It's a grueling, grueling,
high pressure period they've been through. And, you know, you
get a better payout if you leave right after the
election as a staffer. And for a lot of them
who come in as these fresh faced true believers, after
doing your time in the the kind of pressure cooker
(17:27):
of politics you can move on and double your salary
working in government relations and lobbying. So, you know, there
are all kinds of reasons why people are leaving elections.
Bring around refresh, not just in terms of who is
sitting on the benches in Parliament, but who is working
behind the scenes. It's it's really often a young person's job.
I mean, you don't see too many people over the
age of 35 doing it because it is often quite
(17:49):
thankless and fast paced and high pressure. So there is
always like a lot of churn. Um, but, you know,
when experience departs, when it moves on, um, everyone's got
to find a way to rebuild. And I think with
Labour in such a kind of strong assailant position, there
will be no shortage of young, fresh faced true believers
(18:09):
ready to jump on the train.
S1 (18:11):
So are we essentially saying a generation of staffers hit
middle age, have perhaps children and a mortgage, want to
seek out a more stable life and better working hours?
Or is this reflective of some kind of unusual level
of dysfunction or personality clashes or anything like that within
the government?
S10 (18:31):
Yeah, I think it's probably premature to to paint this
as a sort of labour in crisis, internal turmoil kind
of thing. I mean, there's a long history of Labour
having internal crises while in government, but I think this
one internally has been relatively stable. Um, that that is
across government and within offices. I mean, there are always
sort of tensions, there are always personality clashes. That is
(18:52):
just a sort of stark reality of the job, especially
somewhere as high pressure and as tense and as adversarial
as federal politics. That's always going to happen. But I
think it it is premature to say that this is
a source or a cause of tension. That said, people
have put to me that there has been maybe a
slightly unusually high level of turnover in the Prime Minister's office,
(19:13):
but but really it yeah, it, it's sort of a
multitude of factors all kind of coming home to roost
at the same time really, I would say.
S1 (19:23):
Kishore, thank you very much for joining the podcast.
S10 (19:25):
My pleasure.
S1 (19:28):
Today's episode was produced by Tammy Mills with technical assistance
from Debbie Harrington and Chee Wong. To listen to our
episodes as soon as they drop, follow Inside Politics on Apple, Spotify,
or anywhere else you listen to your podcasts. To stay
up to date with all the politics, news and exclusives,
visit The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald websites. To
(19:48):
support our journalism, subscribe to us by visiting The Age or.
I'm Nick Bonyhady. Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com