May 22, 2025 • 16 mins
It was high drama this week with the Nationals telling the Liberals they wanted a political divorce.
But by Thursday, the separation – like a marriage on the rocks – was placed on hold while further conversations took place.
So what happened? And what’s going to be better for both parties, and the political health of the nation?
To discuss the drama in this special early episode of Inside Politics, chief political commentator James Massola, and political correspondent Natassia Chrysanthos join host Jacqueline Maley.
Subscribe to The Age & SMH: https://subscribe.smh.com.au/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:01):
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is inside politics. I'm Jacqueline Maley, it's Thursday, May 22nd.
It was high drama this week, with the nationals telling
the liberals that they wanted a political divorce, a possible
split in the coalition, which has existed in some form
or another since 1923, was sparked by nationals leader David
(00:23):
Littleproud insisting on certain policies, notably an ongoing commitment to
nuclear power, which Liberal leader Sussan Ley felt she could
not agree to. But by Thursday afternoon the separation, like
a marriage on the rocks, was placed on hold while
further conversations took place. So what happened and what's going
to be better for both parties and indeed for the
(00:44):
political health of the nation? Here to discuss all this drama,
we have our freshly minted chief political commentator, James Massola,
and also freshly minted, our political correspondent Natassia Chrysanthos. Welcome
to you both. James, tell us how these dramatic events
came about. We know that nationals leader David Littleproud drove
to Albury on Wednesday last week to negotiate the coalition
(01:05):
agreement with the new Liberal leader, Sussan Ley, who was
with her dying mother. What did Littleproud want? What were
his demands?
S2 (01:13):
Look, the starting point for the demands, jacki, was four
things he wanted the coalition or the nationals, one of
the coalition, to remain committed to nuclear power, to remain
committed to laws that could potentially force supermarkets to sell
some of their outlets if they were found to be,
you know, engaged in anti-competitive conduct, um, you know, sought
(01:37):
to divest, um, they wanted a $20 billion regional future fund, uh,
which they'd taken to the last election to be kept
in place. And they wanted basically updated provisions for the
universal service obligation that, uh, telecoms providers are obligated to provide,
which means, you know, decent reception essentially for your mobile
(01:59):
phone in the bush, Decent mail service, those sorts of things.
S1 (02:03):
And they also were asking for basically no cabinet solidarity
that they wouldn't have to be bound by cabinet solidarity
with the liberals. Right?
S2 (02:11):
Yeah. Which look, quite frankly, is an extraordinary request and
unprecedented request and one that, you know, no leader could
ever agree to. But yes, that was the final thing.
It's something that David Littleproud didn't mention at all during
his sort of, you know, the big press conference announcing
the split, but which the liberals have been very keen
to say, well, hang on, there was this other thing
(02:32):
and it's kind of a non-negotiable.
S1 (02:33):
So they're basically saying we demand these four key policies, which,
to be fair, are nationalist policies that they're obviously they've
developed and they stand by. But we also want the
right to speak out against any other policies within the
coalition that we don't agree with.
S2 (02:48):
Yeah. And, you know, to my exact point like that
would be unprecedented, Jack. You don't get the luxury of
doing that. You have the argument in the cabinet room
or the shadow Cabinet Room. This is how politics has
worked for, you know, You know, 130, whatever it is,
years you have the arguments in the room, you settle
the position, you come out and you present a united front.
So for the Nats and the libs to be sort
(03:09):
of if, if it were to have been approved for
them to be coming out saying, well, we take a
different position on this, it would be without precedent.
S1 (03:17):
Yeah. It was almost like a sort of a demand
that there was no way that Susan Lee was ever
going to be able to take it up to us.
How did Lee respond to those demands? So there in
Albury and Susan Lee, we should say, is having the
worst week of her life or one of the worst
weeks of her life, because she's nursing her mother through
her last days of her life and then having to
arrange a funeral. So all of this is happening in
tandem with that, um, Littleproud comes to her with these demands.
(03:40):
What does she say?
S3 (03:41):
She says no. In short, um, and that's for a
kind of two main reasons. On the cabinet solidarity point.
As James just mentioned, it's untenable to have shadow ministers
who disagree with the position of the party. Um, so
that was never going to work. And then on the
policy points. So these were coalition policies going into the election.
(04:03):
The National's argument were these are the policies we promised
voters who elected us. We owe it to them. But
Lee came out on her first day as leader and
said no policies adopted, no policies abandoned. We are going
to start from scratch on everything. And she made that
as an undertaking to her party room, and she made
that as an undertaking to the Australian people. Um, and so,
(04:26):
you know, you can see both of their interests coming
through here. Um, the nationals have fought hard for these policies.
They said, we want to go forward and build on them.
We don't have to want to have to relitigate all
of those things. That's a reasonable point from their perspective.
S1 (04:39):
I mean, in defence of the Nat's position, I suppose
they're saying that they want to keep faith with the
voters that have just elected them on the back of
these policies. But the liberals have a divergent sort of interest,
which is we just got roundly sort of executed at
the polls because of our policies. So we obviously need
to rebuild and remake those policies to keep faith with
our voters.
S3 (04:59):
Yeah, and that was the point that Zoe McKenzie, um,
a Liberal moderate MP made this week, which is, I think,
why a few liberals are saying, you know, this is
kind of the way it is those policies let the
nationals keep all of their seats. And those policies potentially
contributed to the loss of dozens of Liberal seats. So
they've got very different interests here.
S1 (05:19):
Therein lies the entire sort of dilemma. Lee, after this,
she said no to those demands. The Nats had a
party room meeting and they decided they were not going
to back down. Lee put a counter offer, I think,
in the following days, and said she just wanted to
sort the frontbench out first and, you know, her shadow ministry.
And then the Nats had another meeting, I think, on
Tuesday morning. And that was when they decided to formally
(05:39):
break with the liberals. But how much notice, James, did
David Littleproud give uh, give Sussan Ley before he announced
it publicly.
S2 (05:47):
It was about 45 minutes. Um, yeah. They met Tuesday
morning at around 1015, 1030. I just happened to be
walking around the corridors of Parliament and saw Littleproud walking
into Lee's office. Um, we know it was from what
Susan said, a 30 minute meeting, pretty quick and fairly
pro forma. And then he walked out and said, right,
you know, 45 minutes notice.
S4 (06:07):
Our party room has got to a position where we
will not be reentering a coalition agreement with the Liberal
Party after this election.
S2 (06:16):
So she convened Sussan Ley an emergency meeting of the
Liberal Party party room to let them know what had happened.
S5 (06:23):
And while I have enormous respect for David and his team,
it is disappointing that the National Party has decided today
to leave the coalition. But the most important thing I
want to say is this the nationals door remains open
and our door remains open, and we look forward with
(06:43):
optimism to rejoining at some point in the future.
S2 (06:47):
If we could just dial back one step here, Jackie.
I want to make a couple of points. Susan Lee's
been the leader of the Liberal Party for. I think
it's nine days now. This happened on the seventh day.
Her mum had died three days earlier. She was in Albury,
you know, beginning to make the arrangements for, um, for
a funeral. Um, she had said very clearly and very publicly,
(07:08):
we are going to take our time and digest this
election result because, you know, as Tarr said, it was
a thumping.
S5 (07:14):
Can I firstly thank David Littleproud for driving down the
Hume Highway to meet me in my office in my
home town so that I could spend my mum's final
days close to her.
S2 (07:26):
The Liberal Party hadn't even had a chance to meet
to consider the National Party's demands. Those four main demands,
all four of them, are probably likely to have been
supported by the Liberal Party.
S1 (07:37):
The policies?
S2 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yes. The policies. Yeah. But it
was a timing thing. The Nats wanted it immediately. It was, um,
you know, in my view, uh confected demands. I mean,
it's not like, um, the liberals suddenly going to completely
change what they believe and say, no, we're not going
to do any of this stuff that we've believed in until,
you know, six weeks ago or whenever the election was.
It's a confected set of reasons to leave. I think
(08:01):
the real reason why the Nats have left is because
of net zero. Now they deny that.
S1 (08:05):
And just remind listeners that the coalition remains formally committed
to net zero emissions by 2050. But obviously, we know
that the nationals have been very keen to abandon that
arrangement and want the liberals to do so, too. So
that's sort of been a key tension point in the
climate wars over the last ten years, you could say.
Let's turn to what happened on Thursday afternoon. Now, it's
(08:28):
hard to keep up, actually, with what seems to be
like a toxic marriage, where one minute there's a breakup,
the next minute there's a make up, just like the
Katy Perry song. Tell us what's happened on Thursday afternoon.
S3 (08:38):
So, quite remarkably, 48 hours after David Littleproud said the
nationals would be leaving the coalition for the first time
in 38 years, that is no longer definitely the case.
So Littleproud on Thursday gave a sudden press conference in
the corridors of parliament.
S6 (08:55):
All good.
S4 (08:57):
Thank you. We've, uh you're right.
S3 (09:00):
In which he said that the breakup was basically a
break and they were on pause.
S4 (09:05):
In a mature and sensible way. And I'm proud of
the fact that our guys are prepared to to accept
that in being sent home today, despite the fact that
I was about to announce to you all this afternoon,
our shadow spokesman, because I think this is a far
more important.
S3 (09:22):
Littleproud and Lee had planned, uh, on Thursday afternoon to
reveal their respective shadow cabinets. So they're the spokespeople that
talk about things like Treasury and Foreign Affairs and whatnot.
And they were going to go it alone, but they
had both decided to call that off while they tried
to broker some kind of agreement. And basically where we
(09:43):
got to was that this these sticking points around the
four policies that the nationals wanted, they would give the
liberals time to at least have a conversation about those
before pulling the plug.
S7 (09:56):
Or getting back together.
S4 (09:57):
After. Hold on, hold on. I'm sorry.
S8 (09:58):
So you're getting back together?
S4 (09:59):
No. This will allow time for a process for Susan
Lee to call her party room together to discuss those
four policy areas.
S3 (10:09):
Quite interestingly, this all played out over the ABC. Um,
because on Wednesday night, you had national Senator Bridget McKenzie
go on Sarah Ferguson's 730 program and say the only
thing we care about is the four policies. Um, Sarah
Ferguson asked her, well, what about Susan Lee's claim about
this shadow cabinet confidentiality point? McKenzie said, that's not a
(10:32):
problem for us. Someone in Lee's office was watching and
quite displeased by that version of events, so they texted
in to the ABC. Um, and so by the end
of the program, Sarah Ferguson's there saying, you know, Lee's
contacted us to dispute this basically, and says they've got
in writing that the Knights did want this shadow cabinet
confidentiality exemption.
S9 (10:50):
Now, as that interview played, we've just received a note
from Susan Lee's office saying it is not correct to
suggest that Shadow Cabinet solidarity was not a sticking point
and they that is Susan Lee's office have that in writing.
S3 (11:04):
So everyone went to bed on Wednesday night and then
lo and behold, Thursday morning David Littleproud is again on
the ABC. He's asked what's the go basically. And he says, no,
Susan didn't agree to this shadow cabinet confidentiality thing. And
that's perfectly reasonable. That's fine with us. We just want
our four policies. And so apparently Lee's office heard this
(11:26):
and they were like la di da great. Come back in,
let's talk about it. And as simply as that, um,
the the backtrack was done.
S2 (11:36):
It's great to see the national broadcaster playing such an
important role in the lives of our conservative parties. Indeed,
they often criticise aunty, but yeah.
S1 (11:46):
I know they're actually mediating. It's mediating this dispute between
the two conservative parties. Um, I mean, I keep sort
of coming back to this metaphor of the toxic marriage
which everybody is going for, but it feels like that
felt like gaslighting to me. what David Littleproud did. Um, anyway, James,
is it possible to predict where this is going to go?
S2 (12:05):
Yeah. I mean, I thought the whole way through that, um,
they'll get back together at some point, but not, you know,
given what we've heard from Susan Lee and what have you,
not in this term or only towards the end of
this term. I mean, I've straight after this, uh, you know,
recordings done. Jack, I've got to go to my physio
and get this whiplash treated. It's, um, it's just the
(12:26):
events of the last couple of days are quite extraordinary.
And look, um, put aside what David Littleproud and Bridget
McKenzie are saying. You know, put aside the posturing. This
is a win for Sussan Ley. And she was right
to say shadow cabinet confidentiality must be maintained. I mean
she she didn't give ground. That's the right thing to do.
(12:47):
Now we're seeing a back down. And, you know, quite
frankly a very embarrassing backdown for the nationals and for me, Jacqui,
the question then becomes, uh, one about David Littleproud's Judgment
and the judgment of the leadership team in the nets.
What were they doing if they get back together two
days after this breakup or whatever you want to call it?
(13:07):
It's it's it's ludicrous. Frankly, I don't have another word
for it. So yes, they can get back together, but
can he stay?
S3 (13:14):
And realistically, they're not going to get those four demands
set in stone by the time that a shadow cabinet
needs to be named in July when Parliament returns. So
he said that on Thursday. He said, you know, ideally
we walk back into Parliament with our shadow cabinet. So
you have, you know, you know, who's who in the
zoo when you sit in your first Question time.
S1 (13:31):
Was he saying, just to clarify, sorry to interrupt. Was
he saying that they want a coalition shadow cabinet.
S3 (13:38):
Ideally a coalition shadow cabinet back together. They want that
ideally by July 22nd. So they look they look like
they know what they're doing. And then, you know, the
nuts don't have to go sit with the teals and
the greens. They can sit on their coalition side. But
there is no way that the liberals form their energy
policy and decide what they're doing on that by the
(14:00):
22nd of July. And similarly, they've committed to a root
and branch review of all their policies. Um, that's probably
going to take half a year. So either way, I
think the nationals are coming back probably knowing that baking
in for policies into all four policies, into a coalition
agreement within the next six weeks is probably not going
(14:21):
to happen.
S2 (14:22):
But it's not without precedent either. Look, it's important to
make this point for the listeners here. Some coalition agreements
do have specific policy demands written into them. 2016 When
Malcolm Turnbull just snuck back into government, there was a
protracted negotiation then over what the nationals wanted. And, you know,
Malcolm Turnbull did give some ground. There were some policies,
(14:42):
as I understand it written in, but on other occasions
it's just a sort of bare bones agreement. This is
how many, um, you know, shadow cabinet or cabinet spots.
We're entitled. This is how many you get. We'll work
together and that's it basically. Then they work it out
on a piecemeal basis.
S1 (14:58):
It's not always an ironclad prenup. It's more of a
kind of broad brushstrokes, agreement in a lot of cases.
S2 (15:03):
Precisely.
S1 (15:04):
Listen, guys, this is fascinating. It's going to keep playing out.
So we're going to come back to you whenever we
need to. Probably next week to get the next installment.
And who knows where this crazy ride will end. So
thanks very much.
S2 (15:15):
Thanks very much, Jack.
S3 (15:16):
Thanks.
S1 (15:18):
Today's episode was produced by Tammy Mills with technical assistance
from Debbie Harrington and Belen Sanchez. Tom McKendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
as they drop, follow Inside Politics on Apple, Spotify or
anywhere else you listen to your podcasts. To stay up
to date with all of our political coverage and exclusives,
(15:38):
visit The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald websites to
support our journalism. Subscribe to us by visiting The Age
or smh.com.au. I'm Jacqueline Maley. Thank you for listening.
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is inside politics. I'm Jacqueline Maley, it's Thursday, May 22nd.
It was high drama this week, with the nationals telling
the liberals that they wanted a political divorce, a possible
split in the coalition, which has existed in some form
or another since 1923, was sparked by nationals leader David
(00:23):
Littleproud insisting on certain policies, notably an ongoing commitment to
nuclear power, which Liberal leader Sussan Ley felt she could
not agree to. But by Thursday afternoon the separation, like
a marriage on the rocks, was placed on hold while
further conversations took place. So what happened and what's going
to be better for both parties and indeed for the
(00:44):
political health of the nation? Here to discuss all this drama,
we have our freshly minted chief political commentator, James Massola,
and also freshly minted, our political correspondent Natassia Chrysanthos. Welcome
to you both. James, tell us how these dramatic events
came about. We know that nationals leader David Littleproud drove
to Albury on Wednesday last week to negotiate the coalition
(01:05):
agreement with the new Liberal leader, Sussan Ley, who was
with her dying mother. What did Littleproud want? What were
his demands?
S2 (01:13):
Look, the starting point for the demands, jacki, was four
things he wanted the coalition or the nationals, one of
the coalition, to remain committed to nuclear power, to remain
committed to laws that could potentially force supermarkets to sell
some of their outlets if they were found to be,
you know, engaged in anti-competitive conduct, um, you know, sought
(01:37):
to divest, um, they wanted a $20 billion regional future fund, uh,
which they'd taken to the last election to be kept
in place. And they wanted basically updated provisions for the
universal service obligation that, uh, telecoms providers are obligated to provide,
which means, you know, decent reception essentially for your mobile
(01:59):
phone in the bush, Decent mail service, those sorts of things.
S1 (02:03):
And they also were asking for basically no cabinet solidarity
that they wouldn't have to be bound by cabinet solidarity
with the liberals. Right?
S2 (02:11):
Yeah. Which look, quite frankly, is an extraordinary request and
unprecedented request and one that, you know, no leader could
ever agree to. But yes, that was the final thing.
It's something that David Littleproud didn't mention at all during
his sort of, you know, the big press conference announcing
the split, but which the liberals have been very keen
to say, well, hang on, there was this other thing
(02:32):
and it's kind of a non-negotiable.
S1 (02:33):
So they're basically saying we demand these four key policies, which,
to be fair, are nationalist policies that they're obviously they've
developed and they stand by. But we also want the
right to speak out against any other policies within the
coalition that we don't agree with.
S2 (02:48):
Yeah. And, you know, to my exact point like that
would be unprecedented, Jack. You don't get the luxury of
doing that. You have the argument in the cabinet room
or the shadow Cabinet Room. This is how politics has
worked for, you know, You know, 130, whatever it is,
years you have the arguments in the room, you settle
the position, you come out and you present a united front.
So for the Nats and the libs to be sort
(03:09):
of if, if it were to have been approved for
them to be coming out saying, well, we take a
different position on this, it would be without precedent.
S1 (03:17):
Yeah. It was almost like a sort of a demand
that there was no way that Susan Lee was ever
going to be able to take it up to us.
How did Lee respond to those demands? So there in
Albury and Susan Lee, we should say, is having the
worst week of her life or one of the worst
weeks of her life, because she's nursing her mother through
her last days of her life and then having to
arrange a funeral. So all of this is happening in
tandem with that, um, Littleproud comes to her with these demands.
(03:40):
What does she say?
S3 (03:41):
She says no. In short, um, and that's for a
kind of two main reasons. On the cabinet solidarity point.
As James just mentioned, it's untenable to have shadow ministers
who disagree with the position of the party. Um, so
that was never going to work. And then on the
policy points. So these were coalition policies going into the election.
(04:03):
The National's argument were these are the policies we promised
voters who elected us. We owe it to them. But
Lee came out on her first day as leader and
said no policies adopted, no policies abandoned. We are going
to start from scratch on everything. And she made that
as an undertaking to her party room, and she made
that as an undertaking to the Australian people. Um, and so,
(04:26):
you know, you can see both of their interests coming
through here. Um, the nationals have fought hard for these policies.
They said, we want to go forward and build on them.
We don't have to want to have to relitigate all
of those things. That's a reasonable point from their perspective.
S1 (04:39):
I mean, in defence of the Nat's position, I suppose
they're saying that they want to keep faith with the
voters that have just elected them on the back of
these policies. But the liberals have a divergent sort of interest,
which is we just got roundly sort of executed at
the polls because of our policies. So we obviously need
to rebuild and remake those policies to keep faith with
our voters.
S3 (04:59):
Yeah, and that was the point that Zoe McKenzie, um,
a Liberal moderate MP made this week, which is, I think,
why a few liberals are saying, you know, this is
kind of the way it is those policies let the
nationals keep all of their seats. And those policies potentially
contributed to the loss of dozens of Liberal seats. So
they've got very different interests here.
S1 (05:19):
Therein lies the entire sort of dilemma. Lee, after this,
she said no to those demands. The Nats had a
party room meeting and they decided they were not going
to back down. Lee put a counter offer, I think,
in the following days, and said she just wanted to
sort the frontbench out first and, you know, her shadow ministry.
And then the Nats had another meeting, I think, on
Tuesday morning. And that was when they decided to formally
(05:39):
break with the liberals. But how much notice, James, did
David Littleproud give uh, give Sussan Ley before he announced
it publicly.
S2 (05:47):
It was about 45 minutes. Um, yeah. They met Tuesday
morning at around 1015, 1030. I just happened to be
walking around the corridors of Parliament and saw Littleproud walking
into Lee's office. Um, we know it was from what
Susan said, a 30 minute meeting, pretty quick and fairly
pro forma. And then he walked out and said, right,
you know, 45 minutes notice.
S4 (06:07):
Our party room has got to a position where we
will not be reentering a coalition agreement with the Liberal
Party after this election.
S2 (06:16):
So she convened Sussan Ley an emergency meeting of the
Liberal Party party room to let them know what had happened.
S5 (06:23):
And while I have enormous respect for David and his team,
it is disappointing that the National Party has decided today
to leave the coalition. But the most important thing I
want to say is this the nationals door remains open
and our door remains open, and we look forward with
(06:43):
optimism to rejoining at some point in the future.
S2 (06:47):
If we could just dial back one step here, Jackie.
I want to make a couple of points. Susan Lee's
been the leader of the Liberal Party for. I think
it's nine days now. This happened on the seventh day.
Her mum had died three days earlier. She was in Albury,
you know, beginning to make the arrangements for, um, for
a funeral. Um, she had said very clearly and very publicly,
(07:08):
we are going to take our time and digest this
election result because, you know, as Tarr said, it was
a thumping.
S5 (07:14):
Can I firstly thank David Littleproud for driving down the
Hume Highway to meet me in my office in my
home town so that I could spend my mum's final
days close to her.
S2 (07:26):
The Liberal Party hadn't even had a chance to meet
to consider the National Party's demands. Those four main demands,
all four of them, are probably likely to have been
supported by the Liberal Party.
S1 (07:37):
The policies?
S2 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yes. The policies. Yeah. But it
was a timing thing. The Nats wanted it immediately. It was, um,
you know, in my view, uh confected demands. I mean,
it's not like, um, the liberals suddenly going to completely
change what they believe and say, no, we're not going
to do any of this stuff that we've believed in until,
you know, six weeks ago or whenever the election was.
It's a confected set of reasons to leave. I think
(08:01):
the real reason why the Nats have left is because
of net zero. Now they deny that.
S1 (08:05):
And just remind listeners that the coalition remains formally committed
to net zero emissions by 2050. But obviously, we know
that the nationals have been very keen to abandon that
arrangement and want the liberals to do so, too. So
that's sort of been a key tension point in the
climate wars over the last ten years, you could say.
Let's turn to what happened on Thursday afternoon. Now, it's
(08:28):
hard to keep up, actually, with what seems to be
like a toxic marriage, where one minute there's a breakup,
the next minute there's a make up, just like the
Katy Perry song. Tell us what's happened on Thursday afternoon.
S3 (08:38):
So, quite remarkably, 48 hours after David Littleproud said the
nationals would be leaving the coalition for the first time
in 38 years, that is no longer definitely the case.
So Littleproud on Thursday gave a sudden press conference in
the corridors of parliament.
S6 (08:55):
All good.
S4 (08:57):
Thank you. We've, uh you're right.
S3 (09:00):
In which he said that the breakup was basically a
break and they were on pause.
S4 (09:05):
In a mature and sensible way. And I'm proud of
the fact that our guys are prepared to to accept
that in being sent home today, despite the fact that
I was about to announce to you all this afternoon,
our shadow spokesman, because I think this is a far
more important.
S3 (09:22):
Littleproud and Lee had planned, uh, on Thursday afternoon to
reveal their respective shadow cabinets. So they're the spokespeople that
talk about things like Treasury and Foreign Affairs and whatnot.
And they were going to go it alone, but they
had both decided to call that off while they tried
to broker some kind of agreement. And basically where we
(09:43):
got to was that this these sticking points around the
four policies that the nationals wanted, they would give the
liberals time to at least have a conversation about those
before pulling the plug.
S7 (09:56):
Or getting back together.
S4 (09:57):
After. Hold on, hold on. I'm sorry.
S8 (09:58):
So you're getting back together?
S4 (09:59):
No. This will allow time for a process for Susan
Lee to call her party room together to discuss those
four policy areas.
S3 (10:09):
Quite interestingly, this all played out over the ABC. Um,
because on Wednesday night, you had national Senator Bridget McKenzie
go on Sarah Ferguson's 730 program and say the only
thing we care about is the four policies. Um, Sarah
Ferguson asked her, well, what about Susan Lee's claim about
this shadow cabinet confidentiality point? McKenzie said, that's not a
(10:32):
problem for us. Someone in Lee's office was watching and
quite displeased by that version of events, so they texted
in to the ABC. Um, and so by the end
of the program, Sarah Ferguson's there saying, you know, Lee's
contacted us to dispute this basically, and says they've got
in writing that the Knights did want this shadow cabinet
confidentiality exemption.
S9 (10:50):
Now, as that interview played, we've just received a note
from Susan Lee's office saying it is not correct to
suggest that Shadow Cabinet solidarity was not a sticking point
and they that is Susan Lee's office have that in writing.
S3 (11:04):
So everyone went to bed on Wednesday night and then
lo and behold, Thursday morning David Littleproud is again on
the ABC. He's asked what's the go basically. And he says, no,
Susan didn't agree to this shadow cabinet confidentiality thing. And
that's perfectly reasonable. That's fine with us. We just want
our four policies. And so apparently Lee's office heard this
(11:26):
and they were like la di da great. Come back in,
let's talk about it. And as simply as that, um,
the the backtrack was done.
S2 (11:36):
It's great to see the national broadcaster playing such an
important role in the lives of our conservative parties. Indeed,
they often criticise aunty, but yeah.
S1 (11:46):
I know they're actually mediating. It's mediating this dispute between
the two conservative parties. Um, I mean, I keep sort
of coming back to this metaphor of the toxic marriage
which everybody is going for, but it feels like that
felt like gaslighting to me. what David Littleproud did. Um, anyway, James,
is it possible to predict where this is going to go?
S2 (12:05):
Yeah. I mean, I thought the whole way through that, um,
they'll get back together at some point, but not, you know,
given what we've heard from Susan Lee and what have you,
not in this term or only towards the end of
this term. I mean, I've straight after this, uh, you know,
recordings done. Jack, I've got to go to my physio
and get this whiplash treated. It's, um, it's just the
(12:26):
events of the last couple of days are quite extraordinary.
And look, um, put aside what David Littleproud and Bridget
McKenzie are saying. You know, put aside the posturing. This
is a win for Sussan Ley. And she was right
to say shadow cabinet confidentiality must be maintained. I mean
she she didn't give ground. That's the right thing to do.
(12:47):
Now we're seeing a back down. And, you know, quite
frankly a very embarrassing backdown for the nationals and for me, Jacqui,
the question then becomes, uh, one about David Littleproud's Judgment
and the judgment of the leadership team in the nets.
What were they doing if they get back together two
days after this breakup or whatever you want to call it?
(13:07):
It's it's it's ludicrous. Frankly, I don't have another word
for it. So yes, they can get back together, but
can he stay?
S3 (13:14):
And realistically, they're not going to get those four demands
set in stone by the time that a shadow cabinet
needs to be named in July when Parliament returns. So
he said that on Thursday. He said, you know, ideally
we walk back into Parliament with our shadow cabinet. So
you have, you know, you know, who's who in the
zoo when you sit in your first Question time.
S1 (13:31):
Was he saying, just to clarify, sorry to interrupt. Was
he saying that they want a coalition shadow cabinet.
S3 (13:38):
Ideally a coalition shadow cabinet back together. They want that
ideally by July 22nd. So they look they look like
they know what they're doing. And then, you know, the
nuts don't have to go sit with the teals and
the greens. They can sit on their coalition side. But
there is no way that the liberals form their energy
policy and decide what they're doing on that by the
(14:00):
22nd of July. And similarly, they've committed to a root
and branch review of all their policies. Um, that's probably
going to take half a year. So either way, I
think the nationals are coming back probably knowing that baking
in for policies into all four policies, into a coalition
agreement within the next six weeks is probably not going
(14:21):
to happen.
S2 (14:22):
But it's not without precedent either. Look, it's important to
make this point for the listeners here. Some coalition agreements
do have specific policy demands written into them. 2016 When
Malcolm Turnbull just snuck back into government, there was a
protracted negotiation then over what the nationals wanted. And, you know,
Malcolm Turnbull did give some ground. There were some policies,
(14:42):
as I understand it written in, but on other occasions
it's just a sort of bare bones agreement. This is
how many, um, you know, shadow cabinet or cabinet spots.
We're entitled. This is how many you get. We'll work
together and that's it basically. Then they work it out
on a piecemeal basis.
S1 (14:58):
It's not always an ironclad prenup. It's more of a
kind of broad brushstrokes, agreement in a lot of cases.
S2 (15:03):
Precisely.
S1 (15:04):
Listen, guys, this is fascinating. It's going to keep playing out.
So we're going to come back to you whenever we
need to. Probably next week to get the next installment.
And who knows where this crazy ride will end. So
thanks very much.
S2 (15:15):
Thanks very much, Jack.
S3 (15:16):
Thanks.
S1 (15:18):
Today's episode was produced by Tammy Mills with technical assistance
from Debbie Harrington and Belen Sanchez. Tom McKendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
as they drop, follow Inside Politics on Apple, Spotify or
anywhere else you listen to your podcasts. To stay up
to date with all of our political coverage and exclusives,
(15:38):
visit The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald websites to
support our journalism. Subscribe to us by visiting The Age
or smh.com.au. I'm Jacqueline Maley. Thank you for listening.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.