May 18, 2025 • 15 mins
It is one of life’s agonising scenarios; your puppy gets hit by a car. Or your cat develops a tumour.
Of course, you want the best care. But what if you’re being quoted $10,000? Or more? And why do prices vary so much from vet to vet?
Today, senior reporter Henrietta Cook and national science reporter Liam Mannix on why veterinary bills have skyrocketed over the last few years. And the people who have to sell their furniture, or struggle to make rent, in order to care for their beloved pets.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:02):
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Cylinder Morris. It's Monday,
May 19th. It's one of life's agonising scenarios. Your puppy
gets hit by a car or your cat develops a tumor.
(00:22):
Of course you want the best care. But what if
you're quoted $10,000 or more? And why are prices varying
so much from vet to vet? Today, senior reporter Henrietta
Cook and national science reporter Liam Mannix on why veterinary
bills have skyrocketed over the last few years, and the
(00:42):
people who are now having to sell their furniture or
struggle to make rent in order to care for their pets. So,
Liam and Henrietta, I am so excited to have you on.
You both have cats. I've got one too. And I think,
you know, just as I do, that pets are the
(01:03):
best people in the house. Now, first, Henrietta, I'm going
to go to you because I think it's official. Your
cat has the best name in the world. This is
Margaret Scratcher. So is she called Margaret Scratcher because, like
her namesake, she's a badass.
S2 (01:17):
She is a bit, um, and she scratches a bit
and hisses and doesn't really like humans. Um, but she
likes my husband. And, yeah, she's definitely the feistiest person
in the house. She's quite scared of my two young kids,
so it doesn't spend a lot of time in the
house anymore. But she is a very important part of
our family and we love her very much. Maggie or
(01:39):
Margaret Scratcher hates the vet, and they told us that
we're not to bring her back unless we, um, give
her a sedative. So we we unfortunately don't go there
very often.
S1 (01:50):
Okay, well, that brings me to my next question, which
is that the two of you have just written that
some people are now paying absolutely astonishing amounts of money
to see the vet. So tell us, how much are
we talking about here, Liam? I might go to you first.
S3 (02:04):
Yeah, sure. So we wanted to look at the skyrocketing
costs of vets because. So we got data from Petua,
which is the nation's largest pet insurer, and they think
that the average cost of healthcare over a pet's lifetime
is about $30,000, which is a huge amount of money.
(02:25):
I think they were saying 1 in 10 pets, it
can rise to $100,000. And the statistic that really jumped
out to me was vet inflation. So this is a
rise in the cost of vet services. And we're tracking
that at up 34% since 2020, which is well above inflation.
S1 (02:46):
Okay. That is pretty shocking. Now Henrietta, I want to
go to you because you both have spoken with numerous
pet owners who really all have shocking stories, like forking
out their entire savings to cover medical costs. So can
you share some of those stories?
S2 (03:01):
Yeah, we spoke to a few pet owners who have
had to basically dig into their savings, um, sell furniture,
take out loans just in order to pay their vet bills. One.
Poor man, um, he had an accident where a child
fell on his puppy, and the puppy broke its leg. He, um,
(03:22):
had no option but to seek the help of a
charity that helps pet owners pay for these sorts of bills.
He was initially quoted $10,000 to fix the the dog's leg. Um,
and he was also quoted a smaller fee to amputate it. Um,
I also spoke to another woman who has set up
(03:42):
a crowdfunding campaign just so that she can pay her bills, um,
to treat a urinary blockage in her cat. Um, this
poor woman, um, is now struggling to pay the rent,
and she's Choose, listing all the furniture in her house
on Facebook Marketplace.
S1 (03:59):
And Liam, I want to go to you because these
costs are rising. So tell us why? Because I mean,
these these are massive figures you're talking about.
S3 (04:07):
As with most things, Sam, what we're seeing here is
a confluence of different structural factors. So first of all,
we've got the basic idea that vet care has never
been better. Our animals today get better care than they
have ever had. And that care has improved quite dramatically
in the last 20 years. But that also costs money.
You know, we've got the entry of machines and procedures
(04:30):
that were once reserved for humans, like CT scanners, MRI scanners,
even anticancer vaccines that are now moving from human medicine
into animal medicine. We've also got this sense, this growing
sense that animals are part of the family. People are
really willing to spend a lot more money on their
pet's care now. And part of that is bolstered by
(04:51):
rising rates of pet insurance, which we know encourages consumers
to spend more on their vets. But there are other
things that we hear a bit less about that we
found were really contributing here. First is that this is
an industry that is rapidly transforming. Vets for a very
long time have been underpaid relative to what other people
(05:14):
with similar university degrees might experience. The average wage in
vets is about $70,000, and that's really jumping up now
because the workforce is experiencing chronic shortages and people bought
a lot of pets in the pandemic. Sam. So suddenly
there's a big spike in demand that's pushing up wages,
(05:35):
and those costs are flowing through to vet owners. Then
on top of that, there's growing corporatization. So a number
of groups funded by venture capital have moved into the
veterinary industry, started acquiring practices. And we think that that
is contributing to some increases in costs. And then the
(05:55):
last one that I really want to hit on, and
this is what got Henrietta and I really interested, is
we think that there may be a level of overtreatment
and overdiagnosis within the industry. And that's a word that
really pricks up hen in my ear, where some health
and science journalists and we've done a lot of reporting
on this problem in human healthcare, where there are big
(06:16):
steps being taken to stamp it out. And it would
seem that this is a problem for animals as well now.
S1 (06:21):
And so, Henrietta, let's go to you. Let's talk about,
I guess, the new procedures, you know, the sophisticated treatments
that we've now got for pets. Because I think you
had it quoted in your story that, for instance, specialists
are sometimes charging $1500 to $7000 to repair a ruptured ACL,
but there are actually surgical options that are not nearly
(06:42):
as expensive. Is that right?
S2 (06:44):
Yeah, that's right there. Seems like there's a really large
discrepancy in terms of the cost of treatments between providers
Often there's tests that are perhaps not necessary that are ordered.
There's also increasingly sophisticated procedures that are being performed on
animals chemotherapy, for instance. We also came across a case
(07:06):
of a Great Dane that was, um, kept alive with ventilators,
who had pneumonia, and that cost the pet insurer $80,000,
which was their highest ever claim.
S3 (07:18):
Part of what drives this, Sam, is the unusual structure
of the vet market. We know that consumers don't tend
to price shop between different vets. It's much like with
a doctor you go to the doctor, you say, I
need this done and they do it for you. The
same thing happens with vets. You take your sick dog
(07:39):
to the vet. The vet says this is how much
the medicine costs and you pay. So there's not a
lot of price competition between different vets. And that tends
to lead to a lot of price discrepancies for the
same operation at different practices.
S1 (07:57):
We'll be right back. Okay, so, Henrietta, I want to
go to you and ask you about the corporatization of
the vet industry, because that, I think is also a
key here. I know Liam mentioned it just before in
terms of why costs have risen so much. So can
you tell us about that, I guess, how much vets
(08:19):
have become corporatized?
S2 (08:21):
Yeah. In Australia we have about 15 to 20% of
clinics owned by these big corporate companies. There's I think,
555 vets across the country. Um, we have been told
by people that that is pushing up the price of
veterinary care for owners, and that is often because they
(08:41):
have KPIs that their vets have to meet in order
to bring in more money. It's not just like a
vet that's owned by an individual owner who may not
mind if they don't make a huge profit that year.
These companies are beholden to shareholders and have to turn
around big profits. That sometimes means upselling treatments and scans
(09:02):
and things that you may not necessarily need.
S3 (09:05):
However, it's important to also say that Green Cross. They're
one of the sort of biggest corporates in this sector
have told us that there's no KPIs and that there's
no commission that's linked to remuneration for their vets in
terms of how many interventions they perform, and that they
have full clinical autonomy to give the right care to
the animal that's in front of them.
S1 (09:27):
And it makes me wonder, you know, is there any
regulator in this industry, any oversight, because it seems to
be sort of open slather in terms of, you know,
what can be charged if there's such discrepancies sometimes for
one procedure between one clinic and another, is there any oversight?
S2 (09:42):
Yeah. So each state has a veterinary board and they
basically oversee, I guess, the practice of vets in that state,
but they're mainly looking at, I think, sort of ethical practice. Uh,
the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, they basically told us
that businesses are free to independently set their own prices. Um,
(10:06):
but they also pointed out it's illegal for businesses to
make false or misleading claims about prices. So I guess
they're kind of your two levels of regulation here.
S1 (10:16):
And so I guess just to wrap up, Liam and Henrietta,
is there anything, I guess, that you'd recommend for owners to,
to help with this problem? I mean, obviously you've spoken
about people who have drained their life savings to care
for their loved pets. Is it sort of charities like
the pet medical crisis that I think one of the
people you spoke to went to, or is it something else?
S3 (10:36):
Pet insurance is obviously one potential way of defraying some
of these costs. Um, I also think we need to
be somewhat philosophical about these costs. What we're talking about
here in many cases, is we're paying more for better
quality care for our pets. And as we transform the
way that we think about them, then it kind of
makes a bit of sense that we would want to
(10:58):
spend more to prolong their life. I think that the
overcharging issue that we've identified is real, but I also
think a lot of this is just down to people
wanting to care better for their pets.
S2 (11:08):
I would probably recommend shopping around for prices and seeking
a second opinion if you have been quoted an exorbitant
price for treatment. And one of the things quite a
few people raised was payment plans, and that vets should
be doing more to help people who cannot necessarily afford
these huge upfront costs.
S3 (11:29):
We're touching on an interesting ethical dilemma here, though, Sam,
that a lot of pet owners and a lot of
vets are really encountering before, it was reasonably common to
economically euthanize an animal where you got to the point
where you simply made the call. My companion animals. Life
is not worth this very large treatment cost. We're now
(11:50):
moving to the point where that is much less common,
but we've almost got this reverse ethical problem coming out
the other direction, where animals are being offered treatments that
can extend their life but may compromise the quality of
their life. Some vets have concerns about some of the
heroic chemotherapies that we undertake these days because they say, well,
(12:12):
you know how good a quality life is this dog
having while it is being treated for cancer? I think
that's a really interesting dilemma for people to grapple with.
S1 (12:22):
I think it's a really interesting dilemma, and it makes
me want to ask, do you think many vets are
really happy to have those difficult conversations with pet owners?
Because we see that in human care, right? I know
I've read features again and again where doctors who are
treating human patients find it difficult to have those conversations
and to sort of ask those questions. Is this something
(12:42):
you actually want? Do you actually want this end of life.
Care to prolong your life when your life might be
incredibly painful? Let's just say so. I don't know if
you two have spoken to vets about whether, yeah, they're
forthcoming about having those kinds of conversations.
S2 (12:57):
Yeah, I imagine it's one of the most difficult parts
of being a vet. One vet I spoke to said
that about 40% of his customers cannot afford the the
treatment that he recommends. He then has to discuss sort
of second or third line treatment and I guess detail, um,
(13:18):
the pitfalls of that treatment. Um, they're pretty uncomfortable conversations
to have. Uh, in some cases, uh, the vet and
the family might reach a decision that, um, ending the
pet's life is, is the best way forward. And, um, yeah,
it might also be worthwhile mentioning vets have quite high
(13:38):
rates of, um, of sort of mental health issues. And
I think a lot of that comes down to having
these quite uncomfortable conversations with pet owners and wanting to
do the best for these animals.
S1 (13:50):
Gosh, that's tragic, and I hadn't actually heard that before. Liam,
is that something you've heard before? Are you surprised to
hear that?
S3 (13:57):
I was surprised when I initially heard it, but when
you speak to vets and then think about what they
have to go through, you can see why it's pretty
mentally challenging. These are people who typically go into this
profession because they love animals, and they are, on a
daily basis, being asked to euthanize an animal or not
(14:20):
provide the best quality of care for an animal for
financial reasons. You can understand why that's that's pretty traumatic
and pretty heartbreaking.
S1 (14:29):
I have to admit, it really does put another lens on.
I think, you know, the bills that people get, it
really sort of does provide a much more holistic view,
doesn't it, about what's going on, one that I hadn't
had before. So thank you so much Liam and Henrietta,
for your time.
S4 (14:44):
Thanks for having us.
S2 (14:45):
Thanks for having us, Sam.
S1 (14:53):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Josh
Towers and Julia Carcasole, with technical assistance by Cormac Lally.
Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered
(15:14):
by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit The Age
or smh.com.au. Subscribe and to stay up to date. Sign
up to our Morningedition newsletter to receive a summary of
the day's most important news in your inbox every morning.
Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris.
Thanks for listening.
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Cylinder Morris. It's Monday,
May 19th. It's one of life's agonising scenarios. Your puppy
gets hit by a car or your cat develops a tumor.
(00:22):
Of course you want the best care. But what if
you're quoted $10,000 or more? And why are prices varying
so much from vet to vet? Today, senior reporter Henrietta
Cook and national science reporter Liam Mannix on why veterinary
bills have skyrocketed over the last few years, and the
(00:42):
people who are now having to sell their furniture or
struggle to make rent in order to care for their pets. So,
Liam and Henrietta, I am so excited to have you on.
You both have cats. I've got one too. And I think,
you know, just as I do, that pets are the
(01:03):
best people in the house. Now, first, Henrietta, I'm going
to go to you because I think it's official. Your
cat has the best name in the world. This is
Margaret Scratcher. So is she called Margaret Scratcher because, like
her namesake, she's a badass.
S2 (01:17):
She is a bit, um, and she scratches a bit
and hisses and doesn't really like humans. Um, but she
likes my husband. And, yeah, she's definitely the feistiest person
in the house. She's quite scared of my two young kids,
so it doesn't spend a lot of time in the
house anymore. But she is a very important part of
our family and we love her very much. Maggie or
(01:39):
Margaret Scratcher hates the vet, and they told us that
we're not to bring her back unless we, um, give
her a sedative. So we we unfortunately don't go there
very often.
S1 (01:50):
Okay, well, that brings me to my next question, which
is that the two of you have just written that
some people are now paying absolutely astonishing amounts of money
to see the vet. So tell us, how much are
we talking about here, Liam? I might go to you first.
S3 (02:04):
Yeah, sure. So we wanted to look at the skyrocketing
costs of vets because. So we got data from Petua,
which is the nation's largest pet insurer, and they think
that the average cost of healthcare over a pet's lifetime
is about $30,000, which is a huge amount of money.
(02:25):
I think they were saying 1 in 10 pets, it
can rise to $100,000. And the statistic that really jumped
out to me was vet inflation. So this is a
rise in the cost of vet services. And we're tracking
that at up 34% since 2020, which is well above inflation.
S1 (02:46):
Okay. That is pretty shocking. Now Henrietta, I want to
go to you because you both have spoken with numerous
pet owners who really all have shocking stories, like forking
out their entire savings to cover medical costs. So can
you share some of those stories?
S2 (03:01):
Yeah, we spoke to a few pet owners who have
had to basically dig into their savings, um, sell furniture,
take out loans just in order to pay their vet bills. One.
Poor man, um, he had an accident where a child
fell on his puppy, and the puppy broke its leg. He, um,
(03:22):
had no option but to seek the help of a
charity that helps pet owners pay for these sorts of bills.
He was initially quoted $10,000 to fix the the dog's leg. Um,
and he was also quoted a smaller fee to amputate it. Um,
I also spoke to another woman who has set up
(03:42):
a crowdfunding campaign just so that she can pay her bills, um,
to treat a urinary blockage in her cat. Um, this
poor woman, um, is now struggling to pay the rent,
and she's Choose, listing all the furniture in her house
on Facebook Marketplace.
S1 (03:59):
And Liam, I want to go to you because these
costs are rising. So tell us why? Because I mean,
these these are massive figures you're talking about.
S3 (04:07):
As with most things, Sam, what we're seeing here is
a confluence of different structural factors. So first of all,
we've got the basic idea that vet care has never
been better. Our animals today get better care than they
have ever had. And that care has improved quite dramatically
in the last 20 years. But that also costs money.
You know, we've got the entry of machines and procedures
(04:30):
that were once reserved for humans, like CT scanners, MRI scanners,
even anticancer vaccines that are now moving from human medicine
into animal medicine. We've also got this sense, this growing
sense that animals are part of the family. People are
really willing to spend a lot more money on their
pet's care now. And part of that is bolstered by
(04:51):
rising rates of pet insurance, which we know encourages consumers
to spend more on their vets. But there are other
things that we hear a bit less about that we
found were really contributing here. First is that this is
an industry that is rapidly transforming. Vets for a very
long time have been underpaid relative to what other people
(05:14):
with similar university degrees might experience. The average wage in
vets is about $70,000, and that's really jumping up now
because the workforce is experiencing chronic shortages and people bought
a lot of pets in the pandemic. Sam. So suddenly
there's a big spike in demand that's pushing up wages,
(05:35):
and those costs are flowing through to vet owners. Then
on top of that, there's growing corporatization. So a number
of groups funded by venture capital have moved into the
veterinary industry, started acquiring practices. And we think that that
is contributing to some increases in costs. And then the
(05:55):
last one that I really want to hit on, and
this is what got Henrietta and I really interested, is
we think that there may be a level of overtreatment
and overdiagnosis within the industry. And that's a word that
really pricks up hen in my ear, where some health
and science journalists and we've done a lot of reporting
on this problem in human healthcare, where there are big
(06:16):
steps being taken to stamp it out. And it would
seem that this is a problem for animals as well now.
S1 (06:21):
And so, Henrietta, let's go to you. Let's talk about,
I guess, the new procedures, you know, the sophisticated treatments
that we've now got for pets. Because I think you
had it quoted in your story that, for instance, specialists
are sometimes charging $1500 to $7000 to repair a ruptured ACL,
but there are actually surgical options that are not nearly
(06:42):
as expensive. Is that right?
S2 (06:44):
Yeah, that's right there. Seems like there's a really large
discrepancy in terms of the cost of treatments between providers
Often there's tests that are perhaps not necessary that are ordered.
There's also increasingly sophisticated procedures that are being performed on
animals chemotherapy, for instance. We also came across a case
(07:06):
of a Great Dane that was, um, kept alive with ventilators,
who had pneumonia, and that cost the pet insurer $80,000,
which was their highest ever claim.
S3 (07:18):
Part of what drives this, Sam, is the unusual structure
of the vet market. We know that consumers don't tend
to price shop between different vets. It's much like with
a doctor you go to the doctor, you say, I
need this done and they do it for you. The
same thing happens with vets. You take your sick dog
(07:39):
to the vet. The vet says this is how much
the medicine costs and you pay. So there's not a
lot of price competition between different vets. And that tends
to lead to a lot of price discrepancies for the
same operation at different practices.
S1 (07:57):
We'll be right back. Okay, so, Henrietta, I want to
go to you and ask you about the corporatization of
the vet industry, because that, I think is also a
key here. I know Liam mentioned it just before in
terms of why costs have risen so much. So can
you tell us about that, I guess, how much vets
(08:19):
have become corporatized?
S2 (08:21):
Yeah. In Australia we have about 15 to 20% of
clinics owned by these big corporate companies. There's I think,
555 vets across the country. Um, we have been told
by people that that is pushing up the price of
veterinary care for owners, and that is often because they
(08:41):
have KPIs that their vets have to meet in order
to bring in more money. It's not just like a
vet that's owned by an individual owner who may not
mind if they don't make a huge profit that year.
These companies are beholden to shareholders and have to turn
around big profits. That sometimes means upselling treatments and scans
(09:02):
and things that you may not necessarily need.
S3 (09:05):
However, it's important to also say that Green Cross. They're
one of the sort of biggest corporates in this sector
have told us that there's no KPIs and that there's
no commission that's linked to remuneration for their vets in
terms of how many interventions they perform, and that they
have full clinical autonomy to give the right care to
the animal that's in front of them.
S1 (09:27):
And it makes me wonder, you know, is there any
regulator in this industry, any oversight, because it seems to
be sort of open slather in terms of, you know,
what can be charged if there's such discrepancies sometimes for
one procedure between one clinic and another, is there any oversight?
S2 (09:42):
Yeah. So each state has a veterinary board and they
basically oversee, I guess, the practice of vets in that state,
but they're mainly looking at, I think, sort of ethical practice. Uh,
the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, they basically told us
that businesses are free to independently set their own prices. Um,
(10:06):
but they also pointed out it's illegal for businesses to
make false or misleading claims about prices. So I guess
they're kind of your two levels of regulation here.
S1 (10:16):
And so I guess just to wrap up, Liam and Henrietta,
is there anything, I guess, that you'd recommend for owners to,
to help with this problem? I mean, obviously you've spoken
about people who have drained their life savings to care
for their loved pets. Is it sort of charities like
the pet medical crisis that I think one of the
people you spoke to went to, or is it something else?
S3 (10:36):
Pet insurance is obviously one potential way of defraying some
of these costs. Um, I also think we need to
be somewhat philosophical about these costs. What we're talking about
here in many cases, is we're paying more for better
quality care for our pets. And as we transform the
way that we think about them, then it kind of
makes a bit of sense that we would want to
(10:58):
spend more to prolong their life. I think that the
overcharging issue that we've identified is real, but I also
think a lot of this is just down to people
wanting to care better for their pets.
S2 (11:08):
I would probably recommend shopping around for prices and seeking
a second opinion if you have been quoted an exorbitant
price for treatment. And one of the things quite a
few people raised was payment plans, and that vets should
be doing more to help people who cannot necessarily afford
these huge upfront costs.
S3 (11:29):
We're touching on an interesting ethical dilemma here, though, Sam,
that a lot of pet owners and a lot of
vets are really encountering before, it was reasonably common to
economically euthanize an animal where you got to the point
where you simply made the call. My companion animals. Life
is not worth this very large treatment cost. We're now
(11:50):
moving to the point where that is much less common,
but we've almost got this reverse ethical problem coming out
the other direction, where animals are being offered treatments that
can extend their life but may compromise the quality of
their life. Some vets have concerns about some of the
heroic chemotherapies that we undertake these days because they say, well,
(12:12):
you know how good a quality life is this dog
having while it is being treated for cancer? I think
that's a really interesting dilemma for people to grapple with.
S1 (12:22):
I think it's a really interesting dilemma, and it makes
me want to ask, do you think many vets are
really happy to have those difficult conversations with pet owners?
Because we see that in human care, right? I know
I've read features again and again where doctors who are
treating human patients find it difficult to have those conversations
and to sort of ask those questions. Is this something
(12:42):
you actually want? Do you actually want this end of life.
Care to prolong your life when your life might be
incredibly painful? Let's just say so. I don't know if
you two have spoken to vets about whether, yeah, they're
forthcoming about having those kinds of conversations.
S2 (12:57):
Yeah, I imagine it's one of the most difficult parts
of being a vet. One vet I spoke to said
that about 40% of his customers cannot afford the the
treatment that he recommends. He then has to discuss sort
of second or third line treatment and I guess detail, um,
(13:18):
the pitfalls of that treatment. Um, they're pretty uncomfortable conversations
to have. Uh, in some cases, uh, the vet and
the family might reach a decision that, um, ending the
pet's life is, is the best way forward. And, um, yeah,
it might also be worthwhile mentioning vets have quite high
(13:38):
rates of, um, of sort of mental health issues. And
I think a lot of that comes down to having
these quite uncomfortable conversations with pet owners and wanting to
do the best for these animals.
S1 (13:50):
Gosh, that's tragic, and I hadn't actually heard that before. Liam,
is that something you've heard before? Are you surprised to
hear that?
S3 (13:57):
I was surprised when I initially heard it, but when
you speak to vets and then think about what they
have to go through, you can see why it's pretty
mentally challenging. These are people who typically go into this
profession because they love animals, and they are, on a
daily basis, being asked to euthanize an animal or not
(14:20):
provide the best quality of care for an animal for
financial reasons. You can understand why that's that's pretty traumatic
and pretty heartbreaking.
S1 (14:29):
I have to admit, it really does put another lens on.
I think, you know, the bills that people get, it
really sort of does provide a much more holistic view,
doesn't it, about what's going on, one that I hadn't
had before. So thank you so much Liam and Henrietta,
for your time.
S4 (14:44):
Thanks for having us.
S2 (14:45):
Thanks for having us, Sam.
S1 (14:53):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Josh
Towers and Julia Carcasole, with technical assistance by Cormac Lally.
Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered
(15:14):
by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit The Age
or smh.com.au. Subscribe and to stay up to date. Sign
up to our Morningedition newsletter to receive a summary of
the day's most important news in your inbox every morning.
Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris.
Thanks for listening.
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