November 18, 2025 • 19 mins
There can be no mistaking it – it is that time of year known as the killing season. Because, as of this morning, there are two state political leaders who’ve lost their jobs. One whose job is rumoured to be on the chopping block. And all this, as rumours swirl that federal Opposition Leader Sussan Ley, might not last through to the new year. Today, state political editors Chip Le Grand and Alexandra Smith, on why all this turmoil, now. And what it means for you.
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S1 (00:01):
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Seelinger Morris. There
can be no mistaking it. It is that time of
year known as The Killing Season because as of this morning,
there are two state political leaders who've lost their jobs
(00:24):
one whose job is rumoured to be on the chopping block.
And all of this as rumors swirl that federal opposition
leader Sussan Ley might not last through to the new year. Today,
state political editors Chip Le Grand and Alexander Smith on
why all of this turmoil now and what it means
for you. Welcome back to the podcast, Alexandra and Chip.
S2 (00:52):
Hey, Samantha.
S3 (00:53):
Thanks, Sam.
S1 (00:53):
Okay, so first off, as we record this on Tuesday morning,
it's really been a big day in Australian politics. So
perhaps one of you can start off by telling us
briefly what The Killing Season is, who's gone down today,
and whether you've actually ever seen so many leadership spills
or imminent spills in such a short period.
S4 (01:12):
Well, I mean, in Victoria, I mean, it means that
for the second time within 11 months, we have a
new leader of the coalition and the Liberal Party leader.
So today, a couple of hours ago, Jess Wilson, who's
only been in Parliament for two years, she has taken
over the leadership of the Victorian Liberal Party from Brad Batten,
(01:34):
who in turn took it over from John Pesutto just
two days after Christmas.
S5 (01:39):
The breaking news this is out of Victoria. Liberal party
leader Brad Batten has been voted out. Following here is
Jess Wilson in Victoria. She is the new Liberal leader.
S4 (01:50):
So it is chopping and changing here. We've had I
think it's now six times the Victorian Liberal leaders have
been replaced since they were last in government, so it
is certainly a habitual recurrence in the life of Liberal Party.
S3 (02:05):
In New South Wales. We're not quite at a new
Liberal leader yet, although it is imminent this week.
S6 (02:11):
A potential Liberal spill involving Mark Speakman, the leader there.
Whether that happens today.
S3 (02:16):
And this is the last sitting week of the year
in New South Wales, traditionally the killing season, there is
a lot of talk at the moment that he won't
survive the week.
S1 (02:29):
Okay, well let's step through what has led to these
massive changes, what they mean and why we should really care.
Let's start with Victoria Chipp. Can you just tell us
about who the new Liberal leader in your state is?
Tell us about Jess Wilson and yeah, how big of
a deal this is that all of a sudden she's
the new leader.
S4 (02:48):
So the thing with Jess Wilson, it's really a generational change.
So she's a millennial. She's she's 35 years old. She's
born into politics. Her father, Ron Wilson, was a was
an MP in the in the state parliament.
S7 (03:01):
This morning the Liberal party room elected me as parliamentary
leader unopposed, and I congratulate the team behind.
S4 (03:08):
Jess cut her teeth as an advisor to to Josh
Frydenberg when he was treasurer. Um, she's worked in policy positions, um,
with the Business Council of Australia and also the IPA.
She's a moderate, but economically she's, uh, she's quite dry,
quite conservative.
S7 (03:25):
I have clear priorities. One, to get the budget back
into control so we can invest in things that matter. Two,
to end the crime crisis. Three, to make sure that
Victorians can get access to the healthcare that they need
and deserve. And four, to give every Victorian the best
opportunity to own their own home in this state. They
(03:48):
are my priorities. They are my.
S4 (03:50):
And the interesting thing that's happened here is that you've
got a, a, um, a smaller liberal from Q who's
been put into the leadership at the behest of a
group of very conservative MPs who've turned on the bloke
that they supported less than a year ago for the leadership?
So it's a bit of a cross factional mash up here.
And so quite an unusual ingredients.
S1 (04:10):
And is it a shock appointment though, because I believe
former Victorian premier Jeff Kennett has described her as a
very nice, young, educated lady but said that, you know,
three years in Parliament is not nearly enough time to
become a party leader. So what's led to this cross
factional weirdness, really?
S4 (04:29):
So you've got to take it back to October 10th.
That's when the former leader, Brad Batten, reshuffled his frontbench,
and in doing so, he ticked off a whole bunch
of people who didn't get what they wanted in the
New Deal. And these are people that supported his leadership
last time round.
S8 (04:49):
He's come out here and say, as a very proud
member of the Victorian Liberal Party, I stand continuously proud
in the role that I've done and the things that
I've done for the community. The Victorian Liberal Party now
has a very clear path.
S4 (05:02):
And the extent of the the unhappiness of that created
within the party then shifted the numbers. So you had
a situation from that point, and this has been the
this has been the situation for now, about five weeks,
that there was majority support within the party room for
someone else, which is obviously an inherently unstable position. So
(05:24):
everyone sort of understood that from that point, there was
going to be a leadership and really one of the
last people to be convinced of the need to have
one right now was Jess Wilson. So there's been a
lot of people in her ear trying to convince her
that it's her time, uh, to lead the party. And
that's happen now.
S1 (05:43):
Okay, so I've got to say, as a layperson listening
to this, that sounds just inherently unstable, that the person
that's been chosen to lead what you called before recording
to be a very unstable party room to lead this party.
They've had three Liberal leaders in Victoria and only 11 months.
So I guess, what are her chances of posing a
(06:03):
real threat at the next state election, which I think
is in November next year? And what did she say
this morning in her victory speech about what her ambitions are?
S4 (06:12):
Well, the most significant thing she said this morning was, well,
the first thing that came out of her mouth when
she walked out of the party room was to talk
about the importance of getting the conversation back on the budget. Now,
this is this is important because in Victoria, our our
net debt is about $200 billion. The the budget is
in is in cash deficit. And it's really starting to
(06:36):
bite now in terms of the services that the government
can afford to to run. The decisions they're having to make,
the compromises they're having to make. And and so one
of the criticisms of Brad Batten, the previous leader, was
that he had this myopic focus on crime. Crime is
a real problem here. The crime rate is as at
record levels, but crime was really the only thing that
(06:58):
Brad Batten has spoken about for the last six months.
And there was a lot of people in the Liberal Party,
in the party room and outside, who were very frustrated
that he had become a bit of a one trick pony.
And so there was an expectation now that Jess Wilson
is going to try to broaden out the conversation to
to take it back to the budget, to take it
back and to start talking about the services that are
(07:20):
being cut and compromised, and to remind people in Victoria
of all the things that are going wrong under an
11 year labor administration.
S1 (07:29):
Just as the last question on Jess Wilson, Chip, you
have covered state politics in Victoria for quite a long time.
What hopes do you think she has of actually turning
this party around, given how little experience she has, and
that she seems to have inherited a party where a
lot of people are frustrated with what their positions are?
S4 (07:48):
Well, look, it's a huge task. And one thing that
one of her parliamentary colleagues said today was that, you know,
Jess Wilson is the future of the party. The question
is whether that future is now. So whether she's really
ready to to run this now, obviously, Jeff Kennett says
is is doubtful of that. He's just not convinced that
she's been there long enough. Um, and it's not just her. Like,
(08:09):
you've got Jess Wilson, Sam Groth, who's a deputy. They're both, um,
in their first terms of Parliament. This is a really
big ask to to expect people to come in from
outside like this, win the trust of their colleagues and
be able to bring together a political operation which, frankly,
has been a shambles now for a really long time.
It's not just what goes on in, in the Parliament.
(08:30):
It's what goes on at an organizational level, at administrative level,
within the Liberal Party in Victoria, there are all sorts
of problems with the liberals as a political outfit, as
a brand, as an organisation. One person can't fix all that.
So it really is a monstrous task that she has
in front of her.
S1 (08:51):
I mean, am I cynical in hearing this and thinking
that this might be a poisoned chalice? I mean, we
know that Jess Wilson's the first woman to lead the
Victorian Liberal Party since the state division was founded 71
years ago. So it kind of sounds like a mirroring
of Susan Lee taking over the coalition after its disastrous
federal election result. You know, people sort of thought, okay, well,
(09:11):
now they're putting a woman in. She's just doomed to fail.
S4 (09:14):
Well, it's you know, it's a great tradition in Australian
politics that after the blokes spend sufficient time mucking something up,
they give a woman a go. And so you can.
And you and you can say that that's happened here in,
in Victoria, but also because of the, because of the
nature of so many challenges, so many challenges, the leaders
we have, I mean, they really are running out of
people now to be leader. So it gets to a
(09:37):
point where someone they sound half coherent, they look okay
in camera. It's like, wow, they're really leadership potential because
because they burnt through so many. I mean, we are
the stocks are getting very low in terms of leadership
potential within the Victorian Liberal Party.
S1 (09:52):
Okay, Chip, that is so disappointing. So I'm just going
to let that sink in before we turn to Alex
and New South Wales. We'll be right back. Alex, what
is behind the reporting that Liberal leader Mark Speakman might
lose his job in an imminent coup?
S3 (10:12):
Well, there's been a lot of unhappiness within the Liberal
Party for quite a while now within the parliamentary party,
because the problem they face is an election is looming
like it is in Victoria March 2027. But the liberals
have not shifted their primary vote. In fact, they've gone
backwards since the last election. And what that means is
(10:33):
not only are they no closer to winning government, but
they may well lose seats, which will just put them
further behind in opposition for longer. Now, I think it's
a very different situation in New South Wales to Victoria.
It is not a party room that is hugely divided.
It's not dysfunctional, but the reality is the feeling amongst MPs.
(10:53):
Of course, these are MPs who want to make sure
they keep their job at the election. The feeling amongst
MPs is that, as with Mark Speakman as leader, they're
not going forward, they're not landing blows on the men's
Labour government, they're not getting any runs on the board
and until you achieve that, you're not going to a
hold your seats, let alone B pick up seats, which
(11:15):
you need to do obviously to form government. So it's
been a slow burn in New South Wales rather than,
you know, a coup that has emerged from nowhere and
a little like in Victoria. The most likely replacement to
Mark Speakman is a female Kellie Sloane, and she has
also been very reluctant to do the job. Many people
(11:37):
have said that she would be a great leader and
I think she's had leadership aspirations. She's only been in
Parliament for two and a bit years, but I think
she was very aware that if she took the job
too early, she could end her kind of political leadership
career pretty quickly. She has been reluctant to take on
the job, but from what I understand, she's now been
(11:58):
talked into it. She now realizes that if there's a vacancy,
she needs to put her hand up. That's not to
say she's ready to roll Mark Speakman and be responsible
for the for getting rid of him, but if the
vacancy arises, she's prepared to step up and do that
job now.
S1 (12:14):
God, another person being talked into a role that, you know,
perhaps no sane person would want to do in the
first place given the pressure and the stress of it.
So I guess just tell us what might happen to
Mark Speakman if what some people are thinking might be
an imminent coup, if it doesn't come off? I mean,
how damaging is this going to be to him, even
if he does stay in the position?
S3 (12:34):
Well, it's really damaging. It's damaging no matter what happens
from this point, if there is an attempted coup when
it fails and that MP, whoever it may be, the
most likely person to to sort of do that would
be an MP called Alastair Henskens who is the member
for Warringah in northern Sydney. But if he even if
he launched a coup against Mark Speakman and it's unsuccessful,
(12:57):
that doesn't mean Mark Speakman survives. It just destabilizes him further.
And already all the talk today is around whether Mark
Speakman will survive. So coup or no coup, he's really
in an untenable position. And because this is the last
sitting week of the year, MPs will go back to
their electorates. They won't be meeting again. And of course,
(13:19):
this is why, you know, we dub it The Killing Season,
but that's why it's really gathering traction this week. They
met this morning. No leadership challenge there. But that doesn't
mean it's gone away for the week.
S1 (13:30):
Okay. And that's not even getting into all of the
change in New South Wales, because added to all this
is the fact that the nationals have just lost their leader.
So Alex, was this a surprise and is it important?
S3 (13:42):
It was a surprise, although there had long been talks
that within the National Party room there was unhappiness with
Dugald Saunders leadership. But nobody saw it coming this quickly.
So what happened was yesterday morning he put out a
statement to his fellow National MPs saying he would be
standing down effective immediately. Within about two minutes, that same
(14:04):
statement went out to media. So it took everybody by surprise.
And I think his MPs were stunned that he didn't
tell them. In a party room meeting today when they
all gathered for Parliament. He didn't do any of the
customary kind of press conference that leaders do when they
stand down. He just went. And already now, in New
South Wales, the National Party has elected a new leader,
Gurmukh Singh, who is from Coffs Harbour. He was always
(14:27):
seen as the likely next leader and that has happened.
It's not hugely significant in the sense that I don't
think you can link the national leadership to anything that's
going on with the liberals. You certainly can't also link
it to anything going on with net zero discussions, because
that's not really how it's playing out in New South Wales. Nonetheless,
(14:50):
there was a very interesting little line in Dugald Saunders
resignation statement where he said he wanted to give the
new leader time to get ready for the next election. Now,
of course, that's what the lots of liberals are saying
about Mark Speakman. If they leave it too late to
change leaders and a new person will just not have
the time to get ready for March 2027. So although
(15:13):
they're not linked, it certainly creates heightened tension within the
coalition here in New South Wales because the reality is,
by the end of the week, there could be two
new coalition leaders.
S1 (15:24):
Just to wrap up, Chip and Alex, is all of
this political change at the same time. And of course,
we haven't even touched on the fact that Susan Lee,
just 13 days ago, she gave a statement saying, I
think that she was completely confident that she'll remain at
the helm of the Liberal Party through the end of
the year. And that, of course, gave a lot of
people the feeling like, oh my God, it might be
(15:45):
the exact opposite. You know, she's she's doomed to be
felled before the end of the year. So is this
all just happenstance or are there sort of underlying political,
cultural or economic trends or others that, you know, have
brought all of these leaders down or nearly down?
S4 (16:00):
Well, I think that certainly from the Victorian, it's reflective
of a of a bigger narrative in politics and in
the Liberal Party particularly, and this who the party represents
and what they stand for. So Brad Batten was unusual
in that he represents a, a growth suburb. His home
electorate is is on the edges. He grew up in
(16:22):
a new housing estate. Um, he identifies very closely with
the mortgage pressures of people living in the outer suburbs
and the concerns they have around transport and crime and
these sort of things. Jess Wilson is much more your
classic liberal leader from central casting, putting aside the fact
that she's a woman. And that's very different for the
Liberal Party, but in terms of inner city, highly educated,
(16:46):
has grown up sort of imbued in the party and
its philosophies, has had all the kind of the benefits
of those political connections. So it's really that wrestle between
the traditional supporter base of the of the Liberal Party,
within established settlers within inner Melbourne and the voters on the,
on the outer suburbs, and to what extent they have
(17:07):
to change their policies and shape their policies to appeal
to these different constituencies. And so I think in some ways,
the the balance between these two types of leaders is
reflective of that bigger philosophical question of what what are
we in this for?
S3 (17:21):
I think it's different in New South Wales. I think
the New South Wales Liberal Party, as in the the
parliamentary party, knows who it is much more than its
federal counterparts. And by the sounds of it, its Victorian counterparts,
they're largely united on most issues. You know, there are
points of contention, as there always will be, but it's
(17:43):
not a deeply divided party room with constant backstabbing. The
reality is, I think that here in New South Wales,
we are still in minority government, only just. And I
think the liberals lost last time. Only very closely. And
I think they really believe that there is still a
chance to return back into government. The problem is though,
(18:04):
they're not making ground and that gets harder and harder.
And so leadership tension here is more around why aren't
we seeing gains? Why aren't we actually landing punches rather
than being an ideological divide between people within the party room?
So it's a very different situation nonetheless. It lands in
the same position, doesn't it? Where MPs get panicked, they
(18:25):
get nervous heading into the long summer break, and they
just want to know that they've got the best leader
and giving them the best chance ahead of the election.
S1 (18:34):
Well, interesting times indeed. So thank you so much Alex
and Chip for your time.
S3 (18:39):
Thanks, Sam.
S4 (18:40):
Thanks, Sam. Catch you in the next bill.
S1 (18:51):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Julia Carcasole.
Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
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(19:13):
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Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris,
thanks for listening.
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Seelinger Morris. There
can be no mistaking it. It is that time of
year known as The Killing Season because as of this morning,
there are two state political leaders who've lost their jobs
(00:24):
one whose job is rumoured to be on the chopping block.
And all of this as rumors swirl that federal opposition
leader Sussan Ley might not last through to the new year. Today,
state political editors Chip Le Grand and Alexander Smith on
why all of this turmoil now and what it means
for you. Welcome back to the podcast, Alexandra and Chip.
S2 (00:52):
Hey, Samantha.
S3 (00:53):
Thanks, Sam.
S1 (00:53):
Okay, so first off, as we record this on Tuesday morning,
it's really been a big day in Australian politics. So
perhaps one of you can start off by telling us
briefly what The Killing Season is, who's gone down today,
and whether you've actually ever seen so many leadership spills
or imminent spills in such a short period.
S4 (01:12):
Well, I mean, in Victoria, I mean, it means that
for the second time within 11 months, we have a
new leader of the coalition and the Liberal Party leader.
So today, a couple of hours ago, Jess Wilson, who's
only been in Parliament for two years, she has taken
over the leadership of the Victorian Liberal Party from Brad Batten,
(01:34):
who in turn took it over from John Pesutto just
two days after Christmas.
S5 (01:39):
The breaking news this is out of Victoria. Liberal party
leader Brad Batten has been voted out. Following here is
Jess Wilson in Victoria. She is the new Liberal leader.
S4 (01:50):
So it is chopping and changing here. We've had I
think it's now six times the Victorian Liberal leaders have
been replaced since they were last in government, so it
is certainly a habitual recurrence in the life of Liberal Party.
S3 (02:05):
In New South Wales. We're not quite at a new
Liberal leader yet, although it is imminent this week.
S6 (02:11):
A potential Liberal spill involving Mark Speakman, the leader there.
Whether that happens today.
S3 (02:16):
And this is the last sitting week of the year
in New South Wales, traditionally the killing season, there is
a lot of talk at the moment that he won't
survive the week.
S1 (02:29):
Okay, well let's step through what has led to these
massive changes, what they mean and why we should really care.
Let's start with Victoria Chipp. Can you just tell us
about who the new Liberal leader in your state is?
Tell us about Jess Wilson and yeah, how big of
a deal this is that all of a sudden she's
the new leader.
S4 (02:48):
So the thing with Jess Wilson, it's really a generational change.
So she's a millennial. She's she's 35 years old. She's
born into politics. Her father, Ron Wilson, was a was
an MP in the in the state parliament.
S7 (03:01):
This morning the Liberal party room elected me as parliamentary
leader unopposed, and I congratulate the team behind.
S4 (03:08):
Jess cut her teeth as an advisor to to Josh
Frydenberg when he was treasurer. Um, she's worked in policy positions, um,
with the Business Council of Australia and also the IPA.
She's a moderate, but economically she's, uh, she's quite dry,
quite conservative.
S7 (03:25):
I have clear priorities. One, to get the budget back
into control so we can invest in things that matter. Two,
to end the crime crisis. Three, to make sure that
Victorians can get access to the healthcare that they need
and deserve. And four, to give every Victorian the best
opportunity to own their own home in this state. They
(03:48):
are my priorities. They are my.
S4 (03:50):
And the interesting thing that's happened here is that you've
got a, a, um, a smaller liberal from Q who's
been put into the leadership at the behest of a
group of very conservative MPs who've turned on the bloke
that they supported less than a year ago for the leadership?
So it's a bit of a cross factional mash up here.
And so quite an unusual ingredients.
S1 (04:10):
And is it a shock appointment though, because I believe
former Victorian premier Jeff Kennett has described her as a
very nice, young, educated lady but said that, you know,
three years in Parliament is not nearly enough time to
become a party leader. So what's led to this cross
factional weirdness, really?
S4 (04:29):
So you've got to take it back to October 10th.
That's when the former leader, Brad Batten, reshuffled his frontbench,
and in doing so, he ticked off a whole bunch
of people who didn't get what they wanted in the
New Deal. And these are people that supported his leadership
last time round.
S8 (04:49):
He's come out here and say, as a very proud
member of the Victorian Liberal Party, I stand continuously proud
in the role that I've done and the things that
I've done for the community. The Victorian Liberal Party now
has a very clear path.
S4 (05:02):
And the extent of the the unhappiness of that created
within the party then shifted the numbers. So you had
a situation from that point, and this has been the
this has been the situation for now, about five weeks,
that there was majority support within the party room for
someone else, which is obviously an inherently unstable position. So
(05:24):
everyone sort of understood that from that point, there was
going to be a leadership and really one of the
last people to be convinced of the need to have
one right now was Jess Wilson. So there's been a
lot of people in her ear trying to convince her
that it's her time, uh, to lead the party. And
that's happen now.
S1 (05:43):
Okay, so I've got to say, as a layperson listening
to this, that sounds just inherently unstable, that the person
that's been chosen to lead what you called before recording
to be a very unstable party room to lead this party.
They've had three Liberal leaders in Victoria and only 11 months.
So I guess, what are her chances of posing a
(06:03):
real threat at the next state election, which I think
is in November next year? And what did she say
this morning in her victory speech about what her ambitions are?
S4 (06:12):
Well, the most significant thing she said this morning was, well,
the first thing that came out of her mouth when
she walked out of the party room was to talk
about the importance of getting the conversation back on the budget. Now,
this is this is important because in Victoria, our our
net debt is about $200 billion. The the budget is
in is in cash deficit. And it's really starting to
(06:36):
bite now in terms of the services that the government
can afford to to run. The decisions they're having to make,
the compromises they're having to make. And and so one
of the criticisms of Brad Batten, the previous leader, was
that he had this myopic focus on crime. Crime is
a real problem here. The crime rate is as at
record levels, but crime was really the only thing that
(06:58):
Brad Batten has spoken about for the last six months.
And there was a lot of people in the Liberal Party,
in the party room and outside, who were very frustrated
that he had become a bit of a one trick pony.
And so there was an expectation now that Jess Wilson
is going to try to broaden out the conversation to
to take it back to the budget, to take it
back and to start talking about the services that are
(07:20):
being cut and compromised, and to remind people in Victoria
of all the things that are going wrong under an
11 year labor administration.
S1 (07:29):
Just as the last question on Jess Wilson, Chip, you
have covered state politics in Victoria for quite a long time.
What hopes do you think she has of actually turning
this party around, given how little experience she has, and
that she seems to have inherited a party where a
lot of people are frustrated with what their positions are?
S4 (07:48):
Well, look, it's a huge task. And one thing that
one of her parliamentary colleagues said today was that, you know,
Jess Wilson is the future of the party. The question
is whether that future is now. So whether she's really
ready to to run this now, obviously, Jeff Kennett says
is is doubtful of that. He's just not convinced that
she's been there long enough. Um, and it's not just her. Like,
(08:09):
you've got Jess Wilson, Sam Groth, who's a deputy. They're both, um,
in their first terms of Parliament. This is a really
big ask to to expect people to come in from
outside like this, win the trust of their colleagues and
be able to bring together a political operation which, frankly,
has been a shambles now for a really long time.
It's not just what goes on in, in the Parliament.
(08:30):
It's what goes on at an organizational level, at administrative level,
within the Liberal Party in Victoria, there are all sorts
of problems with the liberals as a political outfit, as
a brand, as an organisation. One person can't fix all that.
So it really is a monstrous task that she has
in front of her.
S1 (08:51):
I mean, am I cynical in hearing this and thinking
that this might be a poisoned chalice? I mean, we
know that Jess Wilson's the first woman to lead the
Victorian Liberal Party since the state division was founded 71
years ago. So it kind of sounds like a mirroring
of Susan Lee taking over the coalition after its disastrous
federal election result. You know, people sort of thought, okay, well,
(09:11):
now they're putting a woman in. She's just doomed to fail.
S4 (09:14):
Well, it's you know, it's a great tradition in Australian
politics that after the blokes spend sufficient time mucking something up,
they give a woman a go. And so you can.
And you and you can say that that's happened here in,
in Victoria, but also because of the, because of the
nature of so many challenges, so many challenges, the leaders
we have, I mean, they really are running out of
people now to be leader. So it gets to a
(09:37):
point where someone they sound half coherent, they look okay
in camera. It's like, wow, they're really leadership potential because
because they burnt through so many. I mean, we are
the stocks are getting very low in terms of leadership
potential within the Victorian Liberal Party.
S1 (09:52):
Okay, Chip, that is so disappointing. So I'm just going
to let that sink in before we turn to Alex
and New South Wales. We'll be right back. Alex, what
is behind the reporting that Liberal leader Mark Speakman might
lose his job in an imminent coup?
S3 (10:12):
Well, there's been a lot of unhappiness within the Liberal
Party for quite a while now within the parliamentary party,
because the problem they face is an election is looming
like it is in Victoria March 2027. But the liberals
have not shifted their primary vote. In fact, they've gone
backwards since the last election. And what that means is
(10:33):
not only are they no closer to winning government, but
they may well lose seats, which will just put them
further behind in opposition for longer. Now, I think it's
a very different situation in New South Wales to Victoria.
It is not a party room that is hugely divided.
It's not dysfunctional, but the reality is the feeling amongst MPs.
(10:53):
Of course, these are MPs who want to make sure
they keep their job at the election. The feeling amongst
MPs is that, as with Mark Speakman as leader, they're
not going forward, they're not landing blows on the men's
Labour government, they're not getting any runs on the board
and until you achieve that, you're not going to a
hold your seats, let alone B pick up seats, which
(11:15):
you need to do obviously to form government. So it's
been a slow burn in New South Wales rather than,
you know, a coup that has emerged from nowhere and
a little like in Victoria. The most likely replacement to
Mark Speakman is a female Kellie Sloane, and she has
also been very reluctant to do the job. Many people
(11:37):
have said that she would be a great leader and
I think she's had leadership aspirations. She's only been in
Parliament for two and a bit years, but I think
she was very aware that if she took the job
too early, she could end her kind of political leadership
career pretty quickly. She has been reluctant to take on
the job, but from what I understand, she's now been
(11:58):
talked into it. She now realizes that if there's a vacancy,
she needs to put her hand up. That's not to
say she's ready to roll Mark Speakman and be responsible
for the for getting rid of him, but if the
vacancy arises, she's prepared to step up and do that
job now.
S1 (12:14):
God, another person being talked into a role that, you know,
perhaps no sane person would want to do in the
first place given the pressure and the stress of it.
So I guess just tell us what might happen to
Mark Speakman if what some people are thinking might be
an imminent coup, if it doesn't come off? I mean,
how damaging is this going to be to him, even
if he does stay in the position?
S3 (12:34):
Well, it's really damaging. It's damaging no matter what happens
from this point, if there is an attempted coup when
it fails and that MP, whoever it may be, the
most likely person to to sort of do that would
be an MP called Alastair Henskens who is the member
for Warringah in northern Sydney. But if he even if
he launched a coup against Mark Speakman and it's unsuccessful,
(12:57):
that doesn't mean Mark Speakman survives. It just destabilizes him further.
And already all the talk today is around whether Mark
Speakman will survive. So coup or no coup, he's really
in an untenable position. And because this is the last
sitting week of the year, MPs will go back to
their electorates. They won't be meeting again. And of course,
(13:19):
this is why, you know, we dub it The Killing Season,
but that's why it's really gathering traction this week. They
met this morning. No leadership challenge there. But that doesn't
mean it's gone away for the week.
S1 (13:30):
Okay. And that's not even getting into all of the
change in New South Wales, because added to all this
is the fact that the nationals have just lost their leader.
So Alex, was this a surprise and is it important?
S3 (13:42):
It was a surprise, although there had long been talks
that within the National Party room there was unhappiness with
Dugald Saunders leadership. But nobody saw it coming this quickly.
So what happened was yesterday morning he put out a
statement to his fellow National MPs saying he would be
standing down effective immediately. Within about two minutes, that same
(14:04):
statement went out to media. So it took everybody by surprise.
And I think his MPs were stunned that he didn't
tell them. In a party room meeting today when they
all gathered for Parliament. He didn't do any of the
customary kind of press conference that leaders do when they
stand down. He just went. And already now, in New
South Wales, the National Party has elected a new leader,
Gurmukh Singh, who is from Coffs Harbour. He was always
(14:27):
seen as the likely next leader and that has happened.
It's not hugely significant in the sense that I don't
think you can link the national leadership to anything that's
going on with the liberals. You certainly can't also link
it to anything going on with net zero discussions, because
that's not really how it's playing out in New South Wales. Nonetheless,
(14:50):
there was a very interesting little line in Dugald Saunders
resignation statement where he said he wanted to give the
new leader time to get ready for the next election. Now,
of course, that's what the lots of liberals are saying
about Mark Speakman. If they leave it too late to
change leaders and a new person will just not have
the time to get ready for March 2027. So although
(15:13):
they're not linked, it certainly creates heightened tension within the
coalition here in New South Wales because the reality is,
by the end of the week, there could be two
new coalition leaders.
S1 (15:24):
Just to wrap up, Chip and Alex, is all of
this political change at the same time. And of course,
we haven't even touched on the fact that Susan Lee,
just 13 days ago, she gave a statement saying, I
think that she was completely confident that she'll remain at
the helm of the Liberal Party through the end of
the year. And that, of course, gave a lot of
people the feeling like, oh my God, it might be
(15:45):
the exact opposite. You know, she's she's doomed to be
felled before the end of the year. So is this
all just happenstance or are there sort of underlying political,
cultural or economic trends or others that, you know, have
brought all of these leaders down or nearly down?
S4 (16:00):
Well, I think that certainly from the Victorian, it's reflective
of a of a bigger narrative in politics and in
the Liberal Party particularly, and this who the party represents
and what they stand for. So Brad Batten was unusual
in that he represents a, a growth suburb. His home
electorate is is on the edges. He grew up in
(16:22):
a new housing estate. Um, he identifies very closely with
the mortgage pressures of people living in the outer suburbs
and the concerns they have around transport and crime and
these sort of things. Jess Wilson is much more your
classic liberal leader from central casting, putting aside the fact
that she's a woman. And that's very different for the
Liberal Party, but in terms of inner city, highly educated,
(16:46):
has grown up sort of imbued in the party and
its philosophies, has had all the kind of the benefits
of those political connections. So it's really that wrestle between
the traditional supporter base of the of the Liberal Party,
within established settlers within inner Melbourne and the voters on the,
on the outer suburbs, and to what extent they have
(17:07):
to change their policies and shape their policies to appeal
to these different constituencies. And so I think in some ways,
the the balance between these two types of leaders is
reflective of that bigger philosophical question of what what are
we in this for?
S3 (17:21):
I think it's different in New South Wales. I think
the New South Wales Liberal Party, as in the the
parliamentary party, knows who it is much more than its
federal counterparts. And by the sounds of it, its Victorian counterparts,
they're largely united on most issues. You know, there are
points of contention, as there always will be, but it's
(17:43):
not a deeply divided party room with constant backstabbing. The
reality is, I think that here in New South Wales,
we are still in minority government, only just. And I
think the liberals lost last time. Only very closely. And
I think they really believe that there is still a
chance to return back into government. The problem is though,
(18:04):
they're not making ground and that gets harder and harder.
And so leadership tension here is more around why aren't
we seeing gains? Why aren't we actually landing punches rather
than being an ideological divide between people within the party room?
So it's a very different situation nonetheless. It lands in
the same position, doesn't it? Where MPs get panicked, they
(18:25):
get nervous heading into the long summer break, and they
just want to know that they've got the best leader
and giving them the best chance ahead of the election.
S1 (18:34):
Well, interesting times indeed. So thank you so much Alex
and Chip for your time.
S3 (18:39):
Thanks, Sam.
S4 (18:40):
Thanks, Sam. Catch you in the next bill.
S1 (18:51):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Julia Carcasole.
Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered
by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit the page
(19:13):
or smh.com.au. Subscribe. And to stay up to date, sign
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Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris,
thanks for listening.
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