November 25, 2025 • 16 mins
Donald Trump has long tried to stamp American institutions - and the daily life of his country’s citizens - with his ultra-conservative ideology, openly waging war on diversity, transgender rights and women, among other targets.
But now he wants American diplomats in Canberra to report back to him about the way we live.
Today, North America correspondent Michael Koziol on why Trump wants detailed information about the crime that takes place on our shores.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:01):
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Salinger Morris. It's Wednesday,
November 26th. Donald Trump has long tried to stamp American
institutions and the daily life of his country's citizens, with
his ultra conservative ideology openly waging war on women, diversity
(00:27):
and transgender rights, among other targets. But now he wants
American diplomats in Canberra to report back to him about
the way we live today. North America correspondent Michael Koziol
on why Trump wants detailed information about the crime that
takes place on our shores. Okay, Michael, you have just
(00:55):
broken the news that Trump's administration has instructed its diplomats
at its embassy in Canberra to collect data on crimes
and human rights abuses committed by migrants to Australia. So
what information does he want?
S2 (01:09):
So the embassy in Australia has been instructed to collect data.
And it's look, I think it's a little bit unclear
as to exactly how they're going to collect this data because,
you know, a lot of the countries that they have
included on this cable are Western countries don't necessarily break
down crime by, you know, the person's background or migration status.
(01:32):
But what the embassies have been instructed to do is
to collect that kind of data. So what the US
is calling crime or human rights abuses committed by migrants
or relating to migrants, and to report that data back
to the US State Department for use in the department's
annual report on human rights abuses around the world.
S1 (01:54):
Okay, so first off, one question I've got is what
other countries received this cable besides us?
S2 (02:00):
So it basically seems to be Western countries, I think.
I think you would have to say it is primarily
aimed at Europe. So a number of European countries, the
US embassies in those countries received this cable. And then
on top of that, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. The
State Department did say that, you know, it could be
expanded at a later date. But at this point, the
(02:21):
directive seems to be towards Western countries and US allies
in Europe that the US administration sees as being victim
to excessive migration.
S1 (02:32):
Okay. And the senior State Department official that you spoke
to about this said that the US government is concerned
that the migration of people from, quote, radically different cultures
to ours can lead to political unrest and that that
can lead to economic instability. So first off, let's just
deal with the radically different cultures to ours. So is
this perhaps tinged with racism? How did you interpret that
(02:55):
I guess?
S2 (02:56):
Yeah. Look, I mean, I think it was interesting that
now that the senior official at the State Department didn't
mention this in terms of Australia, but he did say
in terms of migrants to Europe that, you know, he
was quite blatant about saying that a lot of the
crimes that are committed there are being committed by people
(03:17):
who subscribe to radical Islam. So the Trump administration is
quite clear about where it's coming from. And it probably
doesn't care whether you or other people out there think
that that's prejudiced or not. In terms of Australia, look, yes,
they did say to me that, you know, we want
to warn and caution our friends in Australia that if
(03:38):
you go down this path of mass migration, that these
sort of things await. So I think it was clear
that they viewed the situation in Australia as, you know,
less severe than in Europe, but that they held the
same kind of concerns about the type of people coming
in to Australia from different cultures, as he said, and
that they are worried about that. They also I thought
(03:59):
it was interesting. Mentioned that they are watching the housing
situation in Australia and believe that that is connected to
the migration issue, which I know is something that a
lot of the people who are worried about housing back
in Australia do mention. You know, there are a lot
of people who think that the migration level is too
high and is adding to pressure on the housing market.
They have an ally in the Trump administration, which, you know,
(04:20):
they said to me that they're looking at the same thing.
They also made the same observation about Ireland and believe
that it's contributing to a housing crisis there. So look,
there's yeah, there's a there's a range of concerns, um,
that our friends here in Washington have whether we, you know,
think it's a good thing or not. And, you know,
they in their view, they're looking out for us.
S1 (04:40):
Okay. Well, this is what I wanted to ask you to.
We're going to get into how this might play out
domestically for us in just a little bit. But like
you said, the person has told you the senior State
Department official, you know, we just want to caution Australia.
We love the Australian people. But presumably this isn't just
the US warning us out of the goodness of their
own hearts. So what is in it for the United States? Like,
(05:01):
how will Australia cracking down on migration help them?
S2 (05:04):
Yeah. Look, I mean, I think you have seen that
this administration has a worldview that is deliberately anti-globalist. Some have,
you know, described it as nationalist or isolationist or whatever
you want to call it. But there is a strong
view throughout the administration that mass migration, particularly into Western countries,
(05:25):
is just bad for the West. And, you know, this
person that I was speaking to today quite clearly said
that they believe mass migration undermines Western civilization. The administration
views it as essentially a contagion that undermines Western values,
undermines Western societies and cultures wherever it takes place. You know,
I'll stress that's the view of the administration. And we
(05:48):
saw that set out pretty clearly early on. Um, from
JD Vance, the vice president, when he went to Munich
for the well known Munich Security Conference in February. It's
a big occasion on the world stage, and he really
shocked the Europeans with this kind of barnstorming speech.
S3 (06:05):
The threat that I worry the most about vis a
vis Europe is not Russia, it's not China, it's not
any other external actor. And what I worry about is
the threat from within.
S2 (06:17):
Now we're all doing it wrong. Essentially, they were allowing
in too many migrants from too many different sorts of
places and cultures. They were turning their back on democracy.
They were shunning conservative voters who didn't agree with this
kind of migration policy.
S3 (06:33):
I believe there is nothing more urgent than mass migration. Today,
almost 1 in 5 people living in this country moved
here from abroad. That is, of course, an all time high.
It's a similar number, by the way, in the United States,
also an all time high.
S2 (06:50):
Then we saw Donald Trump do it all again at
the United Nations when he said that, uh, you're all
running out of control immigration programs and, you know, you're, uh,
undermining your own economy with your, you know, environmental laws
and climate change policies and, you know, your countries are
all going to hell.
S4 (07:09):
It's time to end the failed experiment of open borders.
You have to end it now. I can tell you
I'm really good at this stuff. Your countries are going
to hell.
S2 (07:23):
Again? I think Trump was directing most of his rhetoric
towards US friends in Europe, but it's clear that they
have the same view about, yes, other US allies, the UK,
Canada and Australia, because, you know, we've been included on
this cable. And so I think, yeah, look, you know,
to put it broadly, um, the administration has a strong, uh,
(07:45):
and holistic view that this kind of migration program undermines
Western civilization, you know, all around the world, including then
the US, although it should be noted that, you know,
the US runs a pretty big immigration program. Now, we
know that Donald Trump has come down very, very hard
on illegal immigration. But the US is an immigrant society
(08:08):
and in fact prides itself, for the most part, on
being a place that people from all around the world,
Western or non-Western, want to come to. And indeed, in
recent weeks, Donald Trump has kind of been singing the
praises of at least skilled migration from lots of different,
you know, Western and non-Western countries, saying, we need these
people to come in to help build the, you know,
(08:28):
battery plants and chip making facilities and factories of the future. So,
you know, look like many of these things, they kind
of have a bit of a bob each way. But look,
I think it's clear that this administration has a program
and a world outlook that it wants to prosecute, not
just within the borders of the US, but everywhere.
S1 (08:51):
We'll be right back.
S5 (08:55):
I guess just how unusual.
S1 (08:57):
Of an intrusion. Is this into our domestic politics from
another country? Like, is this unheard of, another country, you know,
instructing its diplomats on our soil to collect information about,
you know, our people for their own purposes?
S2 (09:13):
Look, I think I wouldn't call it that unusual because,
you know, the US, unlike other countries, does run this, uh,
sort of annual report that it issues, which is, you know, in, in,
in years past has been quite, um, eagerly sort of
anticipated and, and, uh, downloaded and, and explored, uh, it
(09:34):
has this quite robust, um, annual report that it does
on human rights abuses and the state of human rights
around the world. Um, now, uh, and so part of,
you know, the job of US embassies all around the
world is to kind of monitor those countries. I mean,
you know, we would be kidding ourselves if we didn't
think that, uh, uh, diplomats in, in the US embassy
(09:56):
in Canberra were taking notes about what was happening in Australia.
I mean, that is kind of the point of having
an embassy. But, um, what's different about this, I guess,
is the direction that they're going in in terms of, um, uh,
what they're reporting back on for the purposes of this
human rights report. And the administration has been quite clear
that it wants to shift the focus of that, uh,
(10:18):
human rights report, uh, away from, you know, uh, what
it would say, uh, politically correct, um, kind of pursuits, uh,
into the things that it thinks are important, such as, uh,
you know, freedom of speech, uh, such as, uh, making
sure that, you know, voters on the conservative voters or,
(10:39):
you know, uh, are not labelled as extremists or shut down, um,
or prevented from speaking and participating in democracy. Uh, those
are the sorts of things that the Trump administration has
said it wants to prioritize when it looks at human rights.
They've also said just by the by that they're going
to be looking at, uh, things such as, you know,
whether a country provides government funding towards abortion services and
(11:01):
whether it provides funding for, uh, gender transition surgery for minors.
We know that's something this administration is dead set against. Uh,
and so you can bet your bottom dollar that that
will be reported on when the next human rights report
is issued.
S1 (11:17):
And perhaps in a strident way, because we know that
this senior State Department official, you know, on a briefing
call to news media about the subject matter you've just
said said that the Trump administration was not afraid to
call out its allies, quote, just as much as we're
willing to call out our enemies. So what do you
think was meant by that particular tone? I mean, that
really sounds like a warning, like you're on notice.
S2 (11:40):
Yeah, I think so. And I mean, look, who knows
what consequences there are ultimately for that down the track.
I mean, uh, you know, maybe it just ends up
as a few lines, uh, in on page 600 of
a report that, uh, very few people read. But we
know that this administration has a tendency to raise concerns
that it has directly. And in fact, there's reporting out
(12:02):
just today, uh, that the Australian Financial Review, our friends
over there reported that, uh, the ambassador here, Kevin Rudd,
has been contacted by um, uh, very senior, uh, people
in the State Department and at the trade office raising
concerns about, uh, the new local content laws, uh, that
(12:22):
Australia is going to introduce, um, to sort of require
streaming services like Netflix to produce more local content. We
know that this administration doesn't like that. We know that
it doesn't like, uh, and that the tech companies don't
like the social media ban for children under 16. Uh,
so this is a government that is very happy to
raise those concerns directly, indirectly in reports, uh, in phone calls,
(12:47):
in meetings. Uh, and so, yeah, look, we should expect
if there's something that they really don't like about what's
going on in Australia for that to be raised.
S1 (12:55):
But with regards to this cable that's been sent to governments,
including ours, that their diplomats are going to be collecting
this data. Like, does this signal something further like, is
this the Trump administration putting Australia on notice that if
we don't rein in our migrant intake, we will no
longer be in its good graces, will be punished? Something
like that.
S2 (13:15):
Look, I mean, I wouldn't want to go that far.
I think, as I said, if I was to summarise
the nature of the call that I was on today again,
obviously they have grave concerns about the situation in Europe.
I think they do have some concerns about what they're
seeing in Australia. Um, but it didn't seem like it
was as acute. I mean, uh, you know, there are
(13:38):
there's certainly, uh, some issues to do with migrant related
crime in the UK and in other parts of Europe, um,
that are much more acute than Australia, where, you know, we,
for the most part, have run a fairly successful multicultural
policy and immigration policy for many decades. So I think,
you know, the US administration is vaguely aware of that. Nonetheless,
(13:59):
they do have these kind of overriding principles that they
subscribe to. And, you know, I mean, whether that would
at some point result in punishment, um, I don't know. Uh,
but as I say, there's certainly more than happy to
raise their concerns.
S6 (14:16):
And so what has our.
S1 (14:17):
Government said in response? And if there has been no
official response yet, are you hearing any murmurs as to
how this message has been received?
S2 (14:25):
I have not. What we were told is that the
governments were not told about this cable in advance, but
that the US embassies had been instructed to make contact
with the governments about it. Whether the US embassy in
Canberra has made contact with the Australian government yet, I'm
just waiting to hear.
S6 (14:43):
And so just to wrap up, Michael.
S1 (14:44):
You know, obviously the issue of overseas migration here is
a heated and sensitive political issue. You know, labor and
the opposition have been competing for a while over, you know,
how much each would reduce the number of migrants into
the country. And this is, of course, after the numbers
of overseas migrants really spiked after Covid lifted. You've written
that opposition leader Sussan Ley is working on her own
(15:07):
policy to perhaps significantly cut the intake of migrants here.
So do you think that this intrusion from the US
might that further inflame the debate here or further fray
our social fabric?
S2 (15:19):
Embassies collect data and report back home all the time.
We do the same thing. I'm sure some people may
find it a little bit kind of intrusive. The idea
that migrants to Australia, who've, you know, come here lawfully,
you know, would sort of attract particular attention from the
US government, particularly with some of the things that the
(15:40):
Trump administration says about migrants and mass migration. I'm sure
some people would be a little bit uncomfortable with that.
But I think that the debate in Australia probably is
more directed by things that are going on domestically than,
Then you know what a foreign country has to say
about us.
S1 (16:03):
Well, thank you so much, Michael, for your time.
S2 (16:05):
No problem at all.
S1 (16:14):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself
and Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom
McKendrick is our head of audio. To listen to our
episodes as soon as they drop, follow the Morning Edition
on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our
newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism,
(16:35):
visit the page or smh.com.au. And to stay up to date,
sign up to our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a
summary of the day's most important news in your inbox
every morning. Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger, Morris,
thanks for listening.
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Salinger Morris. It's Wednesday,
November 26th. Donald Trump has long tried to stamp American
institutions and the daily life of his country's citizens, with
his ultra conservative ideology openly waging war on women, diversity
(00:27):
and transgender rights, among other targets. But now he wants
American diplomats in Canberra to report back to him about
the way we live today. North America correspondent Michael Koziol
on why Trump wants detailed information about the crime that
takes place on our shores. Okay, Michael, you have just
(00:55):
broken the news that Trump's administration has instructed its diplomats
at its embassy in Canberra to collect data on crimes
and human rights abuses committed by migrants to Australia. So
what information does he want?
S2 (01:09):
So the embassy in Australia has been instructed to collect data.
And it's look, I think it's a little bit unclear
as to exactly how they're going to collect this data because,
you know, a lot of the countries that they have
included on this cable are Western countries don't necessarily break
down crime by, you know, the person's background or migration status.
(01:32):
But what the embassies have been instructed to do is
to collect that kind of data. So what the US
is calling crime or human rights abuses committed by migrants
or relating to migrants, and to report that data back
to the US State Department for use in the department's
annual report on human rights abuses around the world.
S1 (01:54):
Okay, so first off, one question I've got is what
other countries received this cable besides us?
S2 (02:00):
So it basically seems to be Western countries, I think.
I think you would have to say it is primarily
aimed at Europe. So a number of European countries, the
US embassies in those countries received this cable. And then
on top of that, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. The
State Department did say that, you know, it could be
expanded at a later date. But at this point, the
(02:21):
directive seems to be towards Western countries and US allies
in Europe that the US administration sees as being victim
to excessive migration.
S1 (02:32):
Okay. And the senior State Department official that you spoke
to about this said that the US government is concerned
that the migration of people from, quote, radically different cultures
to ours can lead to political unrest and that that
can lead to economic instability. So first off, let's just
deal with the radically different cultures to ours. So is
this perhaps tinged with racism? How did you interpret that
(02:55):
I guess?
S2 (02:56):
Yeah. Look, I mean, I think it was interesting that
now that the senior official at the State Department didn't
mention this in terms of Australia, but he did say
in terms of migrants to Europe that, you know, he
was quite blatant about saying that a lot of the
crimes that are committed there are being committed by people
(03:17):
who subscribe to radical Islam. So the Trump administration is
quite clear about where it's coming from. And it probably
doesn't care whether you or other people out there think
that that's prejudiced or not. In terms of Australia, look, yes,
they did say to me that, you know, we want
to warn and caution our friends in Australia that if
(03:38):
you go down this path of mass migration, that these
sort of things await. So I think it was clear
that they viewed the situation in Australia as, you know,
less severe than in Europe, but that they held the
same kind of concerns about the type of people coming
in to Australia from different cultures, as he said, and
that they are worried about that. They also I thought
(03:59):
it was interesting. Mentioned that they are watching the housing
situation in Australia and believe that that is connected to
the migration issue, which I know is something that a
lot of the people who are worried about housing back
in Australia do mention. You know, there are a lot
of people who think that the migration level is too
high and is adding to pressure on the housing market.
They have an ally in the Trump administration, which, you know,
(04:20):
they said to me that they're looking at the same thing.
They also made the same observation about Ireland and believe
that it's contributing to a housing crisis there. So look,
there's yeah, there's a there's a range of concerns, um,
that our friends here in Washington have whether we, you know,
think it's a good thing or not. And, you know,
they in their view, they're looking out for us.
S1 (04:40):
Okay. Well, this is what I wanted to ask you to.
We're going to get into how this might play out
domestically for us in just a little bit. But like
you said, the person has told you the senior State
Department official, you know, we just want to caution Australia.
We love the Australian people. But presumably this isn't just
the US warning us out of the goodness of their
own hearts. So what is in it for the United States? Like,
(05:01):
how will Australia cracking down on migration help them?
S2 (05:04):
Yeah. Look, I mean, I think you have seen that
this administration has a worldview that is deliberately anti-globalist. Some have,
you know, described it as nationalist or isolationist or whatever
you want to call it. But there is a strong
view throughout the administration that mass migration, particularly into Western countries,
(05:25):
is just bad for the West. And, you know, this
person that I was speaking to today quite clearly said
that they believe mass migration undermines Western civilization. The administration
views it as essentially a contagion that undermines Western values,
undermines Western societies and cultures wherever it takes place. You know,
I'll stress that's the view of the administration. And we
(05:48):
saw that set out pretty clearly early on. Um, from
JD Vance, the vice president, when he went to Munich
for the well known Munich Security Conference in February. It's
a big occasion on the world stage, and he really
shocked the Europeans with this kind of barnstorming speech.
S3 (06:05):
The threat that I worry the most about vis a
vis Europe is not Russia, it's not China, it's not
any other external actor. And what I worry about is
the threat from within.
S2 (06:17):
Now we're all doing it wrong. Essentially, they were allowing
in too many migrants from too many different sorts of
places and cultures. They were turning their back on democracy.
They were shunning conservative voters who didn't agree with this
kind of migration policy.
S3 (06:33):
I believe there is nothing more urgent than mass migration. Today,
almost 1 in 5 people living in this country moved
here from abroad. That is, of course, an all time high.
It's a similar number, by the way, in the United States,
also an all time high.
S2 (06:50):
Then we saw Donald Trump do it all again at
the United Nations when he said that, uh, you're all
running out of control immigration programs and, you know, you're, uh,
undermining your own economy with your, you know, environmental laws
and climate change policies and, you know, your countries are
all going to hell.
S4 (07:09):
It's time to end the failed experiment of open borders.
You have to end it now. I can tell you
I'm really good at this stuff. Your countries are going
to hell.
S2 (07:23):
Again? I think Trump was directing most of his rhetoric
towards US friends in Europe, but it's clear that they
have the same view about, yes, other US allies, the UK,
Canada and Australia, because, you know, we've been included on
this cable. And so I think, yeah, look, you know,
to put it broadly, um, the administration has a strong, uh,
(07:45):
and holistic view that this kind of migration program undermines
Western civilization, you know, all around the world, including then
the US, although it should be noted that, you know,
the US runs a pretty big immigration program. Now, we
know that Donald Trump has come down very, very hard
on illegal immigration. But the US is an immigrant society
(08:08):
and in fact prides itself, for the most part, on
being a place that people from all around the world,
Western or non-Western, want to come to. And indeed, in
recent weeks, Donald Trump has kind of been singing the
praises of at least skilled migration from lots of different,
you know, Western and non-Western countries, saying, we need these
people to come in to help build the, you know,
(08:28):
battery plants and chip making facilities and factories of the future. So,
you know, look like many of these things, they kind
of have a bit of a bob each way. But look,
I think it's clear that this administration has a program
and a world outlook that it wants to prosecute, not
just within the borders of the US, but everywhere.
S1 (08:51):
We'll be right back.
S5 (08:55):
I guess just how unusual.
S1 (08:57):
Of an intrusion. Is this into our domestic politics from
another country? Like, is this unheard of, another country, you know,
instructing its diplomats on our soil to collect information about,
you know, our people for their own purposes?
S2 (09:13):
Look, I think I wouldn't call it that unusual because,
you know, the US, unlike other countries, does run this, uh,
sort of annual report that it issues, which is, you know, in, in,
in years past has been quite, um, eagerly sort of
anticipated and, and, uh, downloaded and, and explored, uh, it
(09:34):
has this quite robust, um, annual report that it does
on human rights abuses and the state of human rights
around the world. Um, now, uh, and so part of,
you know, the job of US embassies all around the
world is to kind of monitor those countries. I mean,
you know, we would be kidding ourselves if we didn't
think that, uh, uh, diplomats in, in the US embassy
(09:56):
in Canberra were taking notes about what was happening in Australia.
I mean, that is kind of the point of having
an embassy. But, um, what's different about this, I guess,
is the direction that they're going in in terms of, um, uh,
what they're reporting back on for the purposes of this
human rights report. And the administration has been quite clear
that it wants to shift the focus of that, uh,
(10:18):
human rights report, uh, away from, you know, uh, what
it would say, uh, politically correct, um, kind of pursuits, uh,
into the things that it thinks are important, such as, uh,
you know, freedom of speech, uh, such as, uh, making
sure that, you know, voters on the conservative voters or,
(10:39):
you know, uh, are not labelled as extremists or shut down, um,
or prevented from speaking and participating in democracy. Uh, those
are the sorts of things that the Trump administration has
said it wants to prioritize when it looks at human rights.
They've also said just by the by that they're going
to be looking at, uh, things such as, you know,
whether a country provides government funding towards abortion services and
(11:01):
whether it provides funding for, uh, gender transition surgery for minors.
We know that's something this administration is dead set against. Uh,
and so you can bet your bottom dollar that that
will be reported on when the next human rights report
is issued.
S1 (11:17):
And perhaps in a strident way, because we know that
this senior State Department official, you know, on a briefing
call to news media about the subject matter you've just
said said that the Trump administration was not afraid to
call out its allies, quote, just as much as we're
willing to call out our enemies. So what do you
think was meant by that particular tone? I mean, that
really sounds like a warning, like you're on notice.
S2 (11:40):
Yeah, I think so. And I mean, look, who knows
what consequences there are ultimately for that down the track.
I mean, uh, you know, maybe it just ends up
as a few lines, uh, in on page 600 of
a report that, uh, very few people read. But we
know that this administration has a tendency to raise concerns
that it has directly. And in fact, there's reporting out
(12:02):
just today, uh, that the Australian Financial Review, our friends
over there reported that, uh, the ambassador here, Kevin Rudd,
has been contacted by um, uh, very senior, uh, people
in the State Department and at the trade office raising
concerns about, uh, the new local content laws, uh, that
(12:22):
Australia is going to introduce, um, to sort of require
streaming services like Netflix to produce more local content. We
know that this administration doesn't like that. We know that
it doesn't like, uh, and that the tech companies don't
like the social media ban for children under 16. Uh,
so this is a government that is very happy to
raise those concerns directly, indirectly in reports, uh, in phone calls,
(12:47):
in meetings. Uh, and so, yeah, look, we should expect
if there's something that they really don't like about what's
going on in Australia for that to be raised.
S1 (12:55):
But with regards to this cable that's been sent to governments,
including ours, that their diplomats are going to be collecting
this data. Like, does this signal something further like, is
this the Trump administration putting Australia on notice that if
we don't rein in our migrant intake, we will no
longer be in its good graces, will be punished? Something
like that.
S2 (13:15):
Look, I mean, I wouldn't want to go that far.
I think, as I said, if I was to summarise
the nature of the call that I was on today again,
obviously they have grave concerns about the situation in Europe.
I think they do have some concerns about what they're
seeing in Australia. Um, but it didn't seem like it
was as acute. I mean, uh, you know, there are
(13:38):
there's certainly, uh, some issues to do with migrant related
crime in the UK and in other parts of Europe, um,
that are much more acute than Australia, where, you know, we,
for the most part, have run a fairly successful multicultural
policy and immigration policy for many decades. So I think,
you know, the US administration is vaguely aware of that. Nonetheless,
(13:59):
they do have these kind of overriding principles that they
subscribe to. And, you know, I mean, whether that would
at some point result in punishment, um, I don't know. Uh,
but as I say, there's certainly more than happy to
raise their concerns.
S6 (14:16):
And so what has our.
S1 (14:17):
Government said in response? And if there has been no
official response yet, are you hearing any murmurs as to
how this message has been received?
S2 (14:25):
I have not. What we were told is that the
governments were not told about this cable in advance, but
that the US embassies had been instructed to make contact
with the governments about it. Whether the US embassy in
Canberra has made contact with the Australian government yet, I'm
just waiting to hear.
S6 (14:43):
And so just to wrap up, Michael.
S1 (14:44):
You know, obviously the issue of overseas migration here is
a heated and sensitive political issue. You know, labor and
the opposition have been competing for a while over, you know,
how much each would reduce the number of migrants into
the country. And this is, of course, after the numbers
of overseas migrants really spiked after Covid lifted. You've written
that opposition leader Sussan Ley is working on her own
(15:07):
policy to perhaps significantly cut the intake of migrants here.
So do you think that this intrusion from the US
might that further inflame the debate here or further fray
our social fabric?
S2 (15:19):
Embassies collect data and report back home all the time.
We do the same thing. I'm sure some people may
find it a little bit kind of intrusive. The idea
that migrants to Australia, who've, you know, come here lawfully,
you know, would sort of attract particular attention from the
US government, particularly with some of the things that the
(15:40):
Trump administration says about migrants and mass migration. I'm sure
some people would be a little bit uncomfortable with that.
But I think that the debate in Australia probably is
more directed by things that are going on domestically than,
Then you know what a foreign country has to say
about us.
S1 (16:03):
Well, thank you so much, Michael, for your time.
S2 (16:05):
No problem at all.
S1 (16:14):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself
and Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom
McKendrick is our head of audio. To listen to our
episodes as soon as they drop, follow the Morning Edition
on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our
newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism,
(16:35):
visit the page or smh.com.au. And to stay up to date,
sign up to our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a
summary of the day's most important news in your inbox
every morning. Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger, Morris,
thanks for listening.
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