July 6, 2025 • 20 mins
Ever since American president Donald Trump declared a ceasefire between Israel and Iran, on June 24, we’ve been bombarded by hot takes from leaders on all sides. Trump says the entire world is safer, and the United States has triumphed over Iran.
Iran’s supreme leader, the Ayatollah Khamenei, says Iran delivered the United States a "severe slap".
But what do Israeli civilians, who are caught in the middle of it all, make of it?
Today, foreign affairs national security correspondent Matthew Knott, reports from the middle east, on what Israelis are thinking now about the fate of the hostages, a looming ceasefire with Gaza, and whether a Nobel Peace Prize could be the key to peace in the middle east.
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S1 (00:02):
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Monday,
July 7th. Ever since American President Donald Trump declared a
cease fire between Israel and Iran on June 24th, we've
been bombarded by hot takes from leaders. Trump says the
(00:24):
entire world is safer now and the United States has
triumphed over Iran. Iran's supreme leader, the Ayatollah Khamenei, says
Iran delivered the United States a severe slap. But what
do Israeli civilians who are caught in the middle of
it all make of it? Today, Foreign affairs and national
security correspondent Matthew Knott reports from the Middle East on
(00:46):
what Israelis are thinking now about the fate of the hostages,
a looming ceasefire with Gaza and whether a Nobel Peace
Prize could be the key to peace in the Middle East.
So Matt, we are so lucky to have you on
the podcast. Reporting there from on the ground in the
(01:06):
Middle East. And I really want to know what the
mood is like there. Now as we record this just
a few days before it airs, because when you landed
on June 24th, you were in Tel Aviv, you were
running back and forth to a bomb shelter. This was
right after Donald Trump had announced the cease fire between
Israel and Iran. So what do things feel like there now?
S2 (01:26):
Yeah, it was a remarkable time to arrive back in
the Middle East. This been our third reporting trip to
the region since the October 7th, 2023 attacks, and each
time is different. But after the the ceasefire, things snapped
back incredibly quickly to normal and essentially normal life resumed
(01:51):
in terms of the way people were going about their lives.
I wouldn't say overwhelming celebration in terms of, uh, partying
in the streets. I will talk about this. The war
with Iran is definitely seen as a major strategic victory
for Israel and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But what everyone
(02:13):
said is there's still a fatigue with, uh, the war
in Gaza. Uh, the fact they're still Israeli hostages in Gaza,
the fact Israeli soldiers are still dying in Gaza, um,
that definitely blunted some of the celebrations about the ceasefire
with Iran.
S1 (02:31):
Well, we're definitely going to get to Gaza, but let's
just talk about the ceasefire with Iran, because you have
spoken to Israelis across the country. You've been in many
different cities. You are heading towards Jerusalem today. You've been
in Beersheba, Tel Aviv and other places. So tell me,
what are you hearing? Because I know you spoke to
one man in Beersheba. He told you he regrets that
Israel has agreed to a ceasefire with Iran, right?
S2 (02:51):
Yes. This was on the day the ceasefire was announced.
It was a very tense and confusing moment because while
Donald Trump was announcing a ceasefire, uh, bombs were still
raining down on Tel Aviv. Uh, but there were mixed
opinions about the ceasefire in Israel. Uh, around the point of, uh, Israel.
(03:17):
And most Israelis see Iran very much as the key
threat that they face. Um, and this has been discussed
there for decades that Iran is a big country, you know,
around 90 million people with a very powerful military funding,
proxy groups around the region. You know, many Israelis see
(03:38):
many of their problems and many of the threats they
face leading back to Iran. And also constant sorts of
discussion over decades has been the idea that Iran cannot
be allowed to develop a nuclear weapon. The fact that
Netanyahu convinced Trump to intervene and to drop bombs on
(04:01):
Iran's nuclear facilities was seen as an amazing achievement because
no other US president had been willing to do that. Uh, but, uh,
many Israelis wanted, as they would say, the job to
be finished. Uh, they wanted, uh, Israel and the United
States to push further, to absolutely ensure that Iran couldn't
(04:25):
develop a nuclear weapon to keep degrading their military. And
some even wanted the war to go on to, uh,
regime change, essentially, that, uh, Israel and Iran should keep
fighting at a moment when Iran and the regime there
was at its weakest to keep fighting and to try
and impose or create the conditions for a new regime
(04:49):
in Iran that they think would perhaps be friendlier to Israel.
So we found that there, like with the gentleman you
were speaking to there who said he had mixed emotions,
he said he didn't want to see Israelis dying anymore
in missile strikes from Iran. But he felt a sense
of regret that the Islamic regime was still in place
in Iran.
S3 (05:10):
And then I think you interviewed.
S1 (05:11):
Someone who really put the human face on the toll
that these strikes between Israel and Iran have taken. You
spoke to this man, Raja Khatib, who has suffered a
devastating loss and really sort of paints another picture, I guess,
of what's happening here. So can you tell us about
his story and whether perhaps his suffering has been exacerbated
by the fact that he is an Arab-Israeli rather than
(05:32):
a Jewish Israeli?
S2 (05:34):
Yeah, and this is a fascinating part of Israel that
doesn't often come across, I think, in the coverage. Uh,
so we drove up to a town called a Tamra
in the north of Israel, uh, which is, uh, almost entirely, uh,
Arab-Israeli and Palestinian-Israeli, depending on, uh, the terminology uh, you use,
(05:57):
these are mostly, um, Arabic speaking, uh, people whose descendants are, uh,
Palestinian who go back before the creation of the State
of Israel but are citizens of the State of Israel.
And so a rocket landed there early in the conflict
with Iran, directly on the house of the Khatib family. Uh,
(06:21):
this was a very a fortified house. This was one
of the wealthiest families in the town, very successful legal practitioners.
This house had, um, bomb shelters, safe rooms, unlike many
other houses in the area. Um, but that still didn't save, um, Mr.
Khatib's wife and two of his daughters and his sister
(06:45):
in law, who, uh, died in the missile strike when
we visited. It was several days after, but there were
still streams of mourners coming in to pay their respects
to him, and he was still absolutely devastated, as you
can imagine. And he was saying that essentially other people
(07:07):
in this country are talking about this war as a
major strategic victory. But it's my family who's had to
pay the price for this. He was very skeptical about
the motives for the war and also what it would
lead to. Now, he was speaking off his own bat
about his desire to see a two state solution with
(07:30):
the Palestinians. But mostly we were talking in human terms
about him saying that, uh, he still hears his late
wife's voice in his head telling him he has to
keep going on and keep living because one one of
his daughters did survive Five. The strike.
S3 (07:46):
And something I was really.
S1 (07:48):
Struck by in your piece was that not only has
Khatib been devastated by the loss of members of his family,
but that some of his fellow citizens actually cheered on
the attack that killed his wife and daughters. So tell
me about that.
S2 (07:59):
Yes. And this was something that caused a discussion and
anger at the highest levels of Israeli politics and society,
that a video went viral in Israel showing Israeli citizens
in a nearby town celebrating the rockets raining down on Tamra,
(08:21):
chanting anti Arab songs and saying May the village burn.
And the fact that Israelis would be celebrating the deaths
of their fellow citizens was deeply disturbing. And Raja Khatib
and the other residents of town have seen this video.
(08:43):
It was very upsetting to them. He wants anyone involved
with it to be prosecuted. What people in a town
like Tamra would say is if we posted something like
this about Jewish Israelis, we would be locked up and
we'd be in big trouble. Why doesn't it go the
other way? Many people say they don't think this speaks
for the majority in any way. Are Jewish Israelis. And
(09:08):
it was condemned by the president of Israel, condemned by Netanyahu.
But it does point to divisions that are there within
within Israeli society.
S1 (09:23):
We'll be right back. Let's talk about Gaza. Just last week,
we heard reports that the Israeli military killed at least
74 people in Gaza as an airstrike hit a seaside
cafe in Gaza City. It was crowded with women and children.
So does this change the way Israelis are thinking about
(09:46):
this war?
S2 (09:47):
I must say, in most of the Israeli media and
public discussion are the civilian deaths in Gaza is still
a very, very small part of the conversation and the focus. Uh,
some are more progressive. Sites like Haaretz will cover it
and will write about it. But speaking to Israelis, that
(10:10):
is definitely not where the focus is, even though most
around 70% want the war to end. They're absolutely fatigued
with the war and being at war. But that's not
so much because of, uh, Palestinian deaths in Gaza, although
many people will say that's that's sad. Uh, the focus
(10:31):
there's a lot of focus still on the hostages. The
remaining 50 hostages who are in Gaza are in the city,
like Tel Aviv, are posters everywhere. Neon lights on buildings
are the bring them home banners. Um, that's a huge
driving force in Israeli society. The idea of getting back
(10:54):
as many, uh, living hostages in particular from Gaza and
ending Israel's been at war since October 7th. Pervasive, uh,
fatigue with that. And also, uh, Israeli soldiers dying in Gaza.
You know, the numbers are nothing like the civilians and
number of Palestinians who are dying. But the day the
(11:14):
ceasefire was announced, uh, seven Israeli soldiers died in an
attack in Gaza. And that was a big news story
in Israel. That was something people were bringing up unprompted.
When I would ask them about the ceasefire, they said, oh,
I'm happy that there's a ceasefire with Iran, and we've
had a big success there as we see it. But
(11:35):
how can we feel happy when seven Israeli soldiers died
at the same time in Gaza.
S1 (11:41):
Well, let's talk about the hostages that are still being
held by Hamas in Gaza, because obviously this is an
ongoing source of extreme anguish for Israelis. So how are
Israelis feeling about Benjamin Netanyahu's ability or not, to get
the hostages out? Because I believe there's 50 remaining hostages,
I think maybe half of whom are expected to be alive.
S2 (12:02):
What we've found in speaking to people say, involved with
the hostage families who are desperate for a ceasefire, they're
putting much more emphasis on Trump and the Trump administration
rather than Netanyahu and his government, which is kind of
fascinating to me that you have former Israeli politicians, ambassadors
(12:25):
who are helping this hostage families group. They think the
best way to end the war and to get a
deal is through the white House and through Trump, and
that Trump will tell Netanyahu, essentially, it's time to stop
the war, and I'm not going to support you anymore
if you do. So that's seen as the most fertile
(12:47):
ground for those in Israel trying to stop the war.
It's been a big discussion about that. Netanyahu's been putting
off the end of the war as long as possible
for political considerations. He's facing fraud charges in the courts
right now. There's a lot of news still about that. His, uh, coalition,
his far right coalition has constantly talked that that could
(13:10):
fall apart and ministers threatening to quit if the war ends.
So that's seen as not a productive area for the hostages,
whereas it's seen that Trump can be decisive, that he
does want to end wars, that he does want to
win a Nobel Peace Prize. That's a big discussion here
in Israel. So, uh, you speak to people who say
(13:30):
we're really hoping for Trump to intervene and end the war.
S1 (13:34):
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is set to meet with
Donald Trump this week in Washington. Presumably, the main focus
is going to be a new ceasefire agreement in Gaza.
So I guess tell us how Israelis are feeling about that.
I mean, are they thinking this is it? This is
absolutely it. Even though this has been long and dragged out,
and Netanyahu hasn't, of course, been successfully reined in by
(13:58):
previous American presidents when it comes to doing what he
wants in the Middle East.
S2 (14:02):
Yeah, it's obviously in flux. And we've seen so many
discussions of a ceasefire come and then go, and there
have been agreements and then they fall apart at the
last minute. So it's always in doubt. Um, but in
the Israeli media and analysts here, um, as soon as
the ceasefire with Iran, um, was announced, it was clear
(14:26):
that this was leading. The next step was to end
the Gaza War. I think it might take a bit
longer to work out exactly when conversations were held, but
there was very well informed reporting from journalists and outlets
close to Netanyahu that this was essentially a stage deal,
that Trump will intervene and bomb Iran. The war there
(14:50):
will end, then move on to end the war in Gaza,
get the hostages back, then seek other, uh, peace treaties
under the Abraham Accords with other surrounding nations in the
Middle East, that this is all going together. And that's
where Trump wants this to go. And Netanyahu is such
(15:11):
a fascinating relationship because there are ups and downs, and
it's a big discussion about who's influencing who and who
has the most power. You know, it's seen as Netanyahu
essentially force Trump's hand and lure him into a fight
with Iran that he didn't seem to want. Trump was
very keen for negotiations with Iran. But then a few
(15:31):
days later, he was bombing them. And so did Netanyahu.
Play Trump incredibly well there. But then we saw very
critical language of from Trump that you would never see
from another US president about Israel and saying, Israel and
Iran don't know what the f we're doing.
S4 (15:52):
I'm not happy with Iran either, but I'm really unhappy
if Israel is going out this morning because of one
rocket that didn't land that was shot, perhaps by mistake,
that didn't land. I'm not happy about that. You know
what we have? We basically have two countries that have
been fighting so long and so hard that they don't
(16:13):
know what the fuck they're doing. Do you understand that?
S2 (16:17):
Really stressing that he wanted Israel to stop demanding that
Israel not break the cease fire so he can be
decisive there? So that's where this is going. but there
is an argument. People are trying to stress the rational
argument for Netanyahu as well, that he achieved a strategic
(16:37):
victory with Iran. If he gets back, as many as
possible are living hostages, it won't be enough because many
have died there. But he can say, I brought many
of our people back home, that he could try and
claim credit for that. And how, yeah, how willing Trump
(16:58):
is to force his hand to stay focused on this issue.
There's many other things going on. He's been trying to
end the war in Ukraine as well. But yeah, a
lot of it revolves around Donald Trump and around even
a city like Tel Aviv. You see big signs, big
billboards saying, thank you, President Trump. Uh, we really appreciate you.
(17:19):
Thank you for intervening. So it was certainly a different
mood there than than you encounter in Australia in terms
of how most people feel about the US president.
S1 (17:29):
It's interesting. And you mentioned before there's a lot of
chatter in Israel about Donald Trump wanting this Nobel Peace Prize.
That's so interesting to me. So are they thinking that
that is sort of part of his calculation as to
whether he forces Netanyahu to sign a ceasefire with Gaza?
S2 (17:43):
Yeah, that's a big part of the discussion. At the
protests that came back, people would probably have seen vision
of big weekly protests that happen in Tel Aviv for
the hostages. And now they're stating explicitly they want the
war to end. We saw signs there saying that, you know, Trump,
you'll win a Nobel Peace Prize if you end this war.
S5 (18:08):
Go for it, Trump. Thanks for having us. Thanks for
being next to us. And I'm so glad it was earlier.
S6 (18:17):
I think the entire world has to thank Israel for
being willing to absorb the consequences and taking care of
the work that everyone has been fighting with for the
last 20 to 30 years.
S2 (18:30):
So that's how people are seeing this, and they think
that's one of the keys to ending it.
S1 (18:36):
Sorry, my jaw is dropped because doesn't that seem I mean,
does that surprise you? Because I'm a bit shocked. You know,
like these are people's lives that we're talking about and
it's sort of like it could be something as congratulatory
as a gong from Sweden that, you know, that sways
this totally.
S2 (18:51):
But yes, I think people have seen that. They're trying
to figure out any strategy they can to get the
hostages back to find the most effective arguments. Some that
might seem persuasive aren't working with the leaders who are
in power. So they think that's the best strategy. And
(19:11):
the families of the hostages who are still there say
they will do whatever it takes to get their loved
ones back.
S1 (19:19):
Wow. Well, Matt, we are so lucky to have you
there on the ground speaking to us. So thank you
so much for your time.
S2 (19:26):
No worries at all.
S1 (19:38):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself
and Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom
McKendrick is our head of audio. To listen to our
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(20:00):
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inbox every morning. Links are in the show. Notes. I'm
Samantha Selinger Morris. Thanks for listening.
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Monday,
July 7th. Ever since American President Donald Trump declared a
cease fire between Israel and Iran on June 24th, we've
been bombarded by hot takes from leaders. Trump says the
(00:24):
entire world is safer now and the United States has
triumphed over Iran. Iran's supreme leader, the Ayatollah Khamenei, says
Iran delivered the United States a severe slap. But what
do Israeli civilians who are caught in the middle of
it all make of it? Today, Foreign affairs and national
security correspondent Matthew Knott reports from the Middle East on
(00:46):
what Israelis are thinking now about the fate of the hostages,
a looming ceasefire with Gaza and whether a Nobel Peace
Prize could be the key to peace in the Middle East.
So Matt, we are so lucky to have you on
the podcast. Reporting there from on the ground in the
(01:06):
Middle East. And I really want to know what the
mood is like there. Now as we record this just
a few days before it airs, because when you landed
on June 24th, you were in Tel Aviv, you were
running back and forth to a bomb shelter. This was
right after Donald Trump had announced the cease fire between
Israel and Iran. So what do things feel like there now?
S2 (01:26):
Yeah, it was a remarkable time to arrive back in
the Middle East. This been our third reporting trip to
the region since the October 7th, 2023 attacks, and each
time is different. But after the the ceasefire, things snapped
back incredibly quickly to normal and essentially normal life resumed
(01:51):
in terms of the way people were going about their lives.
I wouldn't say overwhelming celebration in terms of, uh, partying
in the streets. I will talk about this. The war
with Iran is definitely seen as a major strategic victory
for Israel and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But what everyone
(02:13):
said is there's still a fatigue with, uh, the war
in Gaza. Uh, the fact they're still Israeli hostages in Gaza,
the fact Israeli soldiers are still dying in Gaza, um,
that definitely blunted some of the celebrations about the ceasefire
with Iran.
S1 (02:31):
Well, we're definitely going to get to Gaza, but let's
just talk about the ceasefire with Iran, because you have
spoken to Israelis across the country. You've been in many
different cities. You are heading towards Jerusalem today. You've been
in Beersheba, Tel Aviv and other places. So tell me,
what are you hearing? Because I know you spoke to
one man in Beersheba. He told you he regrets that
Israel has agreed to a ceasefire with Iran, right?
S2 (02:51):
Yes. This was on the day the ceasefire was announced.
It was a very tense and confusing moment because while
Donald Trump was announcing a ceasefire, uh, bombs were still
raining down on Tel Aviv. Uh, but there were mixed
opinions about the ceasefire in Israel. Uh, around the point of, uh, Israel.
(03:17):
And most Israelis see Iran very much as the key
threat that they face. Um, and this has been discussed
there for decades that Iran is a big country, you know,
around 90 million people with a very powerful military funding,
proxy groups around the region. You know, many Israelis see
(03:38):
many of their problems and many of the threats they
face leading back to Iran. And also constant sorts of
discussion over decades has been the idea that Iran cannot
be allowed to develop a nuclear weapon. The fact that
Netanyahu convinced Trump to intervene and to drop bombs on
(04:01):
Iran's nuclear facilities was seen as an amazing achievement because
no other US president had been willing to do that. Uh, but, uh,
many Israelis wanted, as they would say, the job to
be finished. Uh, they wanted, uh, Israel and the United
States to push further, to absolutely ensure that Iran couldn't
(04:25):
develop a nuclear weapon to keep degrading their military. And
some even wanted the war to go on to, uh,
regime change, essentially, that, uh, Israel and Iran should keep
fighting at a moment when Iran and the regime there
was at its weakest to keep fighting and to try
and impose or create the conditions for a new regime
(04:49):
in Iran that they think would perhaps be friendlier to Israel.
So we found that there, like with the gentleman you
were speaking to there who said he had mixed emotions,
he said he didn't want to see Israelis dying anymore
in missile strikes from Iran. But he felt a sense
of regret that the Islamic regime was still in place
in Iran.
S3 (05:10):
And then I think you interviewed.
S1 (05:11):
Someone who really put the human face on the toll
that these strikes between Israel and Iran have taken. You
spoke to this man, Raja Khatib, who has suffered a
devastating loss and really sort of paints another picture, I guess,
of what's happening here. So can you tell us about
his story and whether perhaps his suffering has been exacerbated
by the fact that he is an Arab-Israeli rather than
(05:32):
a Jewish Israeli?
S2 (05:34):
Yeah, and this is a fascinating part of Israel that
doesn't often come across, I think, in the coverage. Uh,
so we drove up to a town called a Tamra
in the north of Israel, uh, which is, uh, almost entirely, uh,
Arab-Israeli and Palestinian-Israeli, depending on, uh, the terminology uh, you use,
(05:57):
these are mostly, um, Arabic speaking, uh, people whose descendants are, uh,
Palestinian who go back before the creation of the State
of Israel but are citizens of the State of Israel.
And so a rocket landed there early in the conflict
with Iran, directly on the house of the Khatib family. Uh,
(06:21):
this was a very a fortified house. This was one
of the wealthiest families in the town, very successful legal practitioners.
This house had, um, bomb shelters, safe rooms, unlike many
other houses in the area. Um, but that still didn't save, um, Mr.
Khatib's wife and two of his daughters and his sister
(06:45):
in law, who, uh, died in the missile strike when
we visited. It was several days after, but there were
still streams of mourners coming in to pay their respects
to him, and he was still absolutely devastated, as you
can imagine. And he was saying that essentially other people
(07:07):
in this country are talking about this war as a
major strategic victory. But it's my family who's had to
pay the price for this. He was very skeptical about
the motives for the war and also what it would
lead to. Now, he was speaking off his own bat
about his desire to see a two state solution with
(07:30):
the Palestinians. But mostly we were talking in human terms
about him saying that, uh, he still hears his late
wife's voice in his head telling him he has to
keep going on and keep living because one one of
his daughters did survive Five. The strike.
S3 (07:46):
And something I was really.
S1 (07:48):
Struck by in your piece was that not only has
Khatib been devastated by the loss of members of his family,
but that some of his fellow citizens actually cheered on
the attack that killed his wife and daughters. So tell
me about that.
S2 (07:59):
Yes. And this was something that caused a discussion and
anger at the highest levels of Israeli politics and society,
that a video went viral in Israel showing Israeli citizens
in a nearby town celebrating the rockets raining down on Tamra,
(08:21):
chanting anti Arab songs and saying May the village burn.
And the fact that Israelis would be celebrating the deaths
of their fellow citizens was deeply disturbing. And Raja Khatib
and the other residents of town have seen this video.
(08:43):
It was very upsetting to them. He wants anyone involved
with it to be prosecuted. What people in a town
like Tamra would say is if we posted something like
this about Jewish Israelis, we would be locked up and
we'd be in big trouble. Why doesn't it go the
other way? Many people say they don't think this speaks
for the majority in any way. Are Jewish Israelis. And
(09:08):
it was condemned by the president of Israel, condemned by Netanyahu.
But it does point to divisions that are there within
within Israeli society.
S1 (09:23):
We'll be right back. Let's talk about Gaza. Just last week,
we heard reports that the Israeli military killed at least
74 people in Gaza as an airstrike hit a seaside
cafe in Gaza City. It was crowded with women and children.
So does this change the way Israelis are thinking about
(09:46):
this war?
S2 (09:47):
I must say, in most of the Israeli media and
public discussion are the civilian deaths in Gaza is still
a very, very small part of the conversation and the focus. Uh,
some are more progressive. Sites like Haaretz will cover it
and will write about it. But speaking to Israelis, that
(10:10):
is definitely not where the focus is, even though most
around 70% want the war to end. They're absolutely fatigued
with the war and being at war. But that's not
so much because of, uh, Palestinian deaths in Gaza, although
many people will say that's that's sad. Uh, the focus
(10:31):
there's a lot of focus still on the hostages. The
remaining 50 hostages who are in Gaza are in the city,
like Tel Aviv, are posters everywhere. Neon lights on buildings
are the bring them home banners. Um, that's a huge
driving force in Israeli society. The idea of getting back
(10:54):
as many, uh, living hostages in particular from Gaza and
ending Israel's been at war since October 7th. Pervasive, uh,
fatigue with that. And also, uh, Israeli soldiers dying in Gaza.
You know, the numbers are nothing like the civilians and
number of Palestinians who are dying. But the day the
(11:14):
ceasefire was announced, uh, seven Israeli soldiers died in an
attack in Gaza. And that was a big news story
in Israel. That was something people were bringing up unprompted.
When I would ask them about the ceasefire, they said, oh,
I'm happy that there's a ceasefire with Iran, and we've
had a big success there as we see it. But
(11:35):
how can we feel happy when seven Israeli soldiers died
at the same time in Gaza.
S1 (11:41):
Well, let's talk about the hostages that are still being
held by Hamas in Gaza, because obviously this is an
ongoing source of extreme anguish for Israelis. So how are
Israelis feeling about Benjamin Netanyahu's ability or not, to get
the hostages out? Because I believe there's 50 remaining hostages,
I think maybe half of whom are expected to be alive.
S2 (12:02):
What we've found in speaking to people say, involved with
the hostage families who are desperate for a ceasefire, they're
putting much more emphasis on Trump and the Trump administration
rather than Netanyahu and his government, which is kind of
fascinating to me that you have former Israeli politicians, ambassadors
(12:25):
who are helping this hostage families group. They think the
best way to end the war and to get a
deal is through the white House and through Trump, and
that Trump will tell Netanyahu, essentially, it's time to stop
the war, and I'm not going to support you anymore
if you do. So that's seen as the most fertile
(12:47):
ground for those in Israel trying to stop the war.
It's been a big discussion about that. Netanyahu's been putting
off the end of the war as long as possible
for political considerations. He's facing fraud charges in the courts
right now. There's a lot of news still about that. His, uh, coalition,
his far right coalition has constantly talked that that could
(13:10):
fall apart and ministers threatening to quit if the war ends.
So that's seen as not a productive area for the hostages,
whereas it's seen that Trump can be decisive, that he
does want to end wars, that he does want to
win a Nobel Peace Prize. That's a big discussion here
in Israel. So, uh, you speak to people who say
(13:30):
we're really hoping for Trump to intervene and end the war.
S1 (13:34):
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is set to meet with
Donald Trump this week in Washington. Presumably, the main focus
is going to be a new ceasefire agreement in Gaza.
So I guess tell us how Israelis are feeling about that.
I mean, are they thinking this is it? This is
absolutely it. Even though this has been long and dragged out,
and Netanyahu hasn't, of course, been successfully reined in by
(13:58):
previous American presidents when it comes to doing what he
wants in the Middle East.
S2 (14:02):
Yeah, it's obviously in flux. And we've seen so many
discussions of a ceasefire come and then go, and there
have been agreements and then they fall apart at the
last minute. So it's always in doubt. Um, but in
the Israeli media and analysts here, um, as soon as
the ceasefire with Iran, um, was announced, it was clear
(14:26):
that this was leading. The next step was to end
the Gaza War. I think it might take a bit
longer to work out exactly when conversations were held, but
there was very well informed reporting from journalists and outlets
close to Netanyahu that this was essentially a stage deal,
that Trump will intervene and bomb Iran. The war there
(14:50):
will end, then move on to end the war in Gaza,
get the hostages back, then seek other, uh, peace treaties
under the Abraham Accords with other surrounding nations in the
Middle East, that this is all going together. And that's
where Trump wants this to go. And Netanyahu is such
(15:11):
a fascinating relationship because there are ups and downs, and
it's a big discussion about who's influencing who and who
has the most power. You know, it's seen as Netanyahu
essentially force Trump's hand and lure him into a fight
with Iran that he didn't seem to want. Trump was
very keen for negotiations with Iran. But then a few
(15:31):
days later, he was bombing them. And so did Netanyahu.
Play Trump incredibly well there. But then we saw very
critical language of from Trump that you would never see
from another US president about Israel and saying, Israel and
Iran don't know what the f we're doing.
S4 (15:52):
I'm not happy with Iran either, but I'm really unhappy
if Israel is going out this morning because of one
rocket that didn't land that was shot, perhaps by mistake,
that didn't land. I'm not happy about that. You know
what we have? We basically have two countries that have
been fighting so long and so hard that they don't
(16:13):
know what the fuck they're doing. Do you understand that?
S2 (16:17):
Really stressing that he wanted Israel to stop demanding that
Israel not break the cease fire so he can be
decisive there? So that's where this is going. but there
is an argument. People are trying to stress the rational
argument for Netanyahu as well, that he achieved a strategic
(16:37):
victory with Iran. If he gets back, as many as
possible are living hostages, it won't be enough because many
have died there. But he can say, I brought many
of our people back home, that he could try and
claim credit for that. And how, yeah, how willing Trump
(16:58):
is to force his hand to stay focused on this issue.
There's many other things going on. He's been trying to
end the war in Ukraine as well. But yeah, a
lot of it revolves around Donald Trump and around even
a city like Tel Aviv. You see big signs, big
billboards saying, thank you, President Trump. Uh, we really appreciate you.
(17:19):
Thank you for intervening. So it was certainly a different
mood there than than you encounter in Australia in terms
of how most people feel about the US president.
S1 (17:29):
It's interesting. And you mentioned before there's a lot of
chatter in Israel about Donald Trump wanting this Nobel Peace Prize.
That's so interesting to me. So are they thinking that
that is sort of part of his calculation as to
whether he forces Netanyahu to sign a ceasefire with Gaza?
S2 (17:43):
Yeah, that's a big part of the discussion. At the
protests that came back, people would probably have seen vision
of big weekly protests that happen in Tel Aviv for
the hostages. And now they're stating explicitly they want the
war to end. We saw signs there saying that, you know, Trump,
you'll win a Nobel Peace Prize if you end this war.
S5 (18:08):
Go for it, Trump. Thanks for having us. Thanks for
being next to us. And I'm so glad it was earlier.
S6 (18:17):
I think the entire world has to thank Israel for
being willing to absorb the consequences and taking care of
the work that everyone has been fighting with for the
last 20 to 30 years.
S2 (18:30):
So that's how people are seeing this, and they think
that's one of the keys to ending it.
S1 (18:36):
Sorry, my jaw is dropped because doesn't that seem I mean,
does that surprise you? Because I'm a bit shocked. You know,
like these are people's lives that we're talking about and
it's sort of like it could be something as congratulatory
as a gong from Sweden that, you know, that sways
this totally.
S2 (18:51):
But yes, I think people have seen that. They're trying
to figure out any strategy they can to get the
hostages back to find the most effective arguments. Some that
might seem persuasive aren't working with the leaders who are
in power. So they think that's the best strategy. And
(19:11):
the families of the hostages who are still there say
they will do whatever it takes to get their loved
ones back.
S1 (19:19):
Wow. Well, Matt, we are so lucky to have you
there on the ground speaking to us. So thank you
so much for your time.
S2 (19:26):
No worries at all.
S1 (19:38):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself
and Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom
McKendrick is our head of audio. To listen to our
episodes as soon as they drop, follow the Morning Edition
on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our
newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism,
(20:00):
visit The Age or smh.com.au. Subscribe and to stay up
to date. Sign up to our Morningedition newsletter to receive
a summary of the day's most important news in your
inbox every morning. Links are in the show. Notes. I'm
Samantha Selinger Morris. Thanks for listening.
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