August 12, 2025 • 16 mins
It was a scene straight out of the Donald Trump playbook: a rambling press conference where he spoke about oceanfront property in Ukraine, his upcoming meeting with Russian president Vladimir Putin in Russia – though he’s actually meeting him in Alaska. And then, as if on cue, his claim that, Washington DC has been “overtaken by violent gangs and bloodthirsty criminals”.
Today, North America correspondent Michael Koziol, on Trump’s historic move to take over the police force in the nation’s capital, and send in the national guard. Michael explains what this all means, whether it’s legal, and his view from the streets of Washington DC.
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S1 (00:01):
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Wednesday,
August 13th. It was a scene straight out of the
Donald Trump playbook. A rambling press conference where he spoke
about oceanfront property in Ukraine, his upcoming meeting with Russian
(00:22):
President Vladimir Putin in Russia, though he's actually meeting him
in Alaska. And then, as if on cue, his claim
that Washington, D.C., has been overtaken by violent gangs and
bloodthirsty criminals. Today, North America correspondent Michael Koziol on Trump's
historic move to take over the police force in the
nation's capital and send in the National Guard. What this
(00:46):
all means, whether it's legal and what it feels like
now on the streets of Washington, D.C.. So, Michael, let's
just start with the basics. We know that Trump has
declared a crime emergency, and he's deploying hundreds of National
Guard members to the streets of Washington. So tell us,
(01:06):
you know the basics. Who is he putting on the
ground and why?
S2 (01:10):
So he's decided to deploy the National Guard, which is
a branch of the US military, sort of answers to
both the feds and the states. Um, so in a
normal US state, the state governor sort of controls what
the National Guard does, and they sort of usually called
in to help with national disasters or, you know, incidents
(01:30):
of serious civil unrest. Now, in the case of DC, um,
which is not a state, the federal government and indeed
the president has control over what the National Guard does
so he can send them in.
S3 (01:45):
This is Liberation Day in DC, and we're going to
take our capital back. We're taking it back.
S2 (01:51):
And he can also, it turns out, seize control of
the Washington DC police under the Home Rule Act of
1973 is allowed to, uh, take control of DC safe
place for up to 30.
S3 (02:05):
Days in Washington today is higher than that of Bogota, Colombia,
Mexico City. Some of the places that you hear about
as being the worst places on Earth. Much higher. This
is much higher.
S2 (02:18):
So that's what he's announced. Those two things taking over
the cops and sending in the National Guard. And yes,
this is in response to what the president and his
team have decried as a crime emergency, which is obviously
heavily contested.
S1 (02:38):
Well, I definitely am so happy to be speaking to
you right now, because not only are we speaking to
you on Tuesday morning, Australian time, when this is really
kicking off where you are in Washington, D.C., but you've
been living there for seven months. And Trump, we know,
has justified this move by saying that the nation's capital
has been overrun by, quote, violent gangs.
S3 (02:57):
Violent gangs and bloodthirsty criminals, roving mobs of wild youth,
drugged out maniacs and homeless people.
S1 (03:05):
So tell us. I mean, is this an accurate depiction
of what's happening in Washington, D.C.? Because we know that
city officials have countered this by saying, well, actually, crime
generally is at a 30 year low here.
S2 (03:16):
Yeah. And look, I think on these things, it's better
to go by the data rather than anecdote. And so
it's true that crime is currently coming down.
S4 (03:27):
I'm Muriel Bowser. I'm the mayor of Washington, D.C.. This year,
crime isn't just down from 2023. Uh, it's also down
from 2019, before the pandemic. And we're at a 30
year violent crime low.
S2 (03:47):
Now, part of that is to do with the fact
that there was a legitimate crime spike and spike in
violent crime in Washington, D.C., uh, just at the tail
end of Covid.
S4 (03:58):
I believe that the president's view of D.C. is shaped
by his Covid era experience during his first term.
S2 (04:08):
And the mayor, you know, conceded that this was not
a great time. Those were things like armed robberies and carjackings.
But also, you know, that there had been a concerted
effort on the city's behalf to get the crime rate down.
And that's happened. So to say that all of a
sudden there's now an emergency, uh, is clearly not borne
out on the evidence. Um, now, having said that, Washington, D.C.,
(04:32):
compared to, I mean, compared to an Australian city, is
a more dangerous city. It's a like a lot of
big US cities. Um, it struggles with crime that, you know, and,
you know, we know that the US is often different
in this regard. They have guns. People use them. Just
earlier this year, you know, um, those two Israeli embassy staffers, uh,
(04:55):
were shot on the street. Now, in that case, that
was someone who had come here, um, to Washington, DC
to undertake that crime.
S5 (05:02):
A man detained and handcuffed by event security was heard
chanting free, free Palestine.
S2 (05:07):
But it's not fair to say, as the president has,
that there's this sudden emergency happening that kind of justifies
a federal intervention. Um, you know, by all means, if
you want to intervene as the federal government, fine. I
guess they're doing it here in D.C. because they can.
As opposed to other cities around the US where there's
a state government in control.
S1 (05:29):
And so, I guess, what sort of backlash have we
seen so far? And have any prominent Democrats put up
a fight?
S2 (05:35):
Yeah. Look, um, D.C. is close to the hearts of
a lot of Democrats, people who work in government, even
if they don't live here. Um, so, you know, we've
seen prominent Democrats like Hakeem Jeffries, the leader of the
Democrats in the House of Representatives, um, speak out against this.
Nancy Pelosi, uh, has spoken out against this. A lot
of them are making the point that, you know, Donald
(05:55):
Trump on law and order in D.C. has very little
credibility because of those January 6th riots, uh, from 2021,
which he really helped foster, uh, and encourage until, you know,
he belatedly decided on this has gone too far and
we need to rein them in. So a lot of
Democrats are very angry about what he's done today and
(06:17):
a lot of just, you know, ordinary people very upset.
You know, you know, there are a couple of hundred
people who gathered down on 16th Street today.
S6 (06:25):
Now we say no.
S7 (06:30):
We say no.
S2 (06:34):
Home rule, as they call it, is a very big
thing here in D.C.. There's a lot of anger, um,
about the federal government generally and not specific to Donald Trump.
I mean, people may not realize D.C. doesn't have any
representation in Congress, or at least not any voting representation.
It has a non-voting delegate in the House of Representatives, which,
(06:56):
you know, is sort of pointless, really. And, you know,
if you walk around D.C., you'll see almost every car
has a number plate that says no taxation without representation.
It's a long running gripe here in the District of Columbia. Uh,
and so then to have the government come in and say,
we're going to take over your police force and we're
going to send in the troops. Is, you know, is
is really pushing the buttons of a lot of people
(07:18):
here in D.C.. And also, you've got to remember, this
is a very, very democratic city, something like 93, 94%
of people who live in D.C. vote Democrat. So Donald
Trump doing this is bound to get people upset.
S1 (07:32):
Well, let's get into this, because one basic question that
I have and I imagine many listeners would have too,
is is this legal? Because we know that the mayor
of Washington, D.C., has called it unsettling, right, but seems
to have conceded that it's lawful. Meanwhile, the attorney general
of D.C. called Trump's declaration of an emergency and calling
in the National Guard unlawful. So what's going on here?
S2 (07:54):
Well, look like so many things that Donald Trump does.
We may find out in court. Um, if this is tested. But, look,
I've been speaking to an historian at, uh, one of
the nearby universities, uh, who has written a book about
the history of D.C.. And he was pretty clear. He,
you know, he's dead against what Trump is doing, but
he says Trump does have the right to do it.
You know, this is not a state. This is the
(08:16):
District of Columbia which Congress has authority for. Congress has
the legal authority for the seat of government. Now, it's
delegated that authority in for most things to the D.C. Council. Nonetheless,
the president retains the right to do things such as
take over the D.C. police for up to 30 days. Um, now,
after that, he'll have to seek permission from Congress. We
(08:38):
know Congress has been rather reluctant to stand up to
Donald Trump, um, even on things that it disagrees with.
So he may very well get that approval if he
seeks it. But, uh, look, you know, if the D.C.
attorney general has a legal argument to prosecute, we'll find out.
But for the time being, my understanding is that this
is something that Donald Trump largely has the right to do.
S1 (08:58):
Okay. And I do want to actually play devil's advocate
for a minute, because your latest piece took me down
a rabbit hole and I was looking at, well, what
other cities have called in the National Guard. You know,
are they always Republicans or who does this? And of course,
I found out that New York's Democratic governor called in
the National Guard just last year to fight subway crime.
So what's the difference?
S2 (09:17):
To be fair, the National Guard has been sent into D.C.
on many occasions over the years. The key difference with
some other locations is that in those states, for example,
the one that you gave in New York, the governor
of that state called in their National Guard, which answers
to them. You know, the sort of unprecedented thing in
this case is that Donald Trump is doing it without
(09:39):
the cooperation of the D.C. government, without the cooperation of
Muriel Bowser, the mayor, or the government that is in
control of D.C.. It was the same in California a
couple of months ago during those protests against Donald Trump's
immigration raids, where he sent in the National Guard against
the wishes of California Governor Gavin Newsom.
S8 (10:01):
Lawyers for President Trump and California Governor Gavin Newsom are
clashing in court. The start of a trial with national implications.
The state is suing the Trump administration, saying that they
unlawfully federalized thousands of National Guard troops to quell anti-U.S.
Ice protests back in June. Right now.
S2 (10:17):
What we're seeing here is really a new thing on.
S8 (10:19):
The.
S2 (10:20):
Precedent. The custom is that a governor will call in
the National Guard or request that the feds send in
the National Guard, and then they'll do so. In this case,
it's being done against their wishes and explicitly against their wishes.
S1 (10:36):
We'll be right back. So, Michael, as we've discussed, there
have been many reactions to Trump's deployment of the National
Guard in Washington, D.C., but it's got to be said
amongst the more critical are those who see this as
a move towards authoritarianism. We know the US program director
of Human Rights Watch said, quote, that as we've seen
(10:59):
around the world, the military takeover of local law enforcement
is a harbinger of authoritarianism. Does this at all reflect
what you're feeling on the ground, like, are people thinking
this is a really bad sign of things to come?
S9 (11:12):
You know, I think people.
S2 (11:12):
Are very nervous about about this. And you saw it
in California as well. Uh, you saw, uh, people really
react badly to that all the way from Governor Gavin
Newsom down that, you know, this is our territory, and
we don't want your, uh, federal troops being sent in. Uh, and,
you know, look, they're it's an intimidating presence. Um, these
(11:34):
are people in khaki army uniform, uh, carrying guns, walking
down the streets. And this is a small city, right?
It's a compact city. So you will see these people, uh,
out and about where the world leaders are going to
stand up and make a big deal out of this.
I don't know, we may have to see what happens
when these troops, you know, do arrive, uh, on the street.
And if there are clashes or, you know, if things
(11:56):
get hairy. But, yeah, there's there's certainly apprehension, uh, about
what this might mean. Uh, and, you know, definitely a
lot of cynicism about what this is really all about.
I have my suspicions that a lot of this is
kind of just for show. I mean, you know, there
are limits to what the National Guard or especially the
(12:16):
active military can do in terms of actual law enforcement.
So we saw in California their role was really to
assist the local police there and to basically beef up
the presence of law enforcement. For the most part, it
was local police still performing the arrests. And, you know,
because when you have members of the military in military
(12:36):
uniform arresting citizens, that is a whole new can of
worms and something that is for the most part, not allowed. So,
you know, whether this actually changes law enforcement or not,
I don't know. I think for the most part, it's
about a show of force.
S1 (12:50):
Well, I mean, this really does bring us to a
crucial question, which is really, why is he doing this?
I know, I know why he has said he's doing it.
He's justified by saying, you know, the streets are being
overrun by bloodthirsty criminals. Statistics would suggest otherwise. So is
this just to distract from the Jeffrey Epstein case which
has been dogging him? Well, what is this about, do
(13:12):
you think?
S2 (13:13):
Look, I mean, you could read that into it. I mean,
I'm always reluctant to ascribe specific motives like that, but
I think a broader way of looking at that point
is that this is ground. This is territory on which
Donald Trump and his administration feel like they're kind of
on a political winner, broadly speaking. I mean, being tough
(13:34):
on immigration has been a success for Donald Trump for
the most part. There's there are some indications that, you know,
people are questioning that lately. But, you know, compared to
something like the tariffs, which and, you know, his economic management,
which people have been a bit more skeptical about the
tough on immigration stance, shutting the border, uh, you know,
(13:55):
stopping the illegal immigrants coming over the border that has
been a source of strength. So that kind of tough
on crime, tough on migration, you know, you sending in
the police, sending in the National Guard that I think,
broadly speaking, Donald Trump sees as a winner. The Republicans
see it as a winner for them. And you know,
you saw him make that argument. He linked it to
(14:16):
his success on the border. He said, you know, all
that success we had closing the border, we're going to
have that in D.C. and it's not going to take
very long. So you can kind of see the thread
that they're drawing there. And now whether that's because they're feeling,
you know, vulnerable on Epstein or politically weak on other matters,
I don't know. I don't want necessarily want to ascribe
that motive, but I think they just say this is
(14:38):
something that they can do that people in other parts
of the country will approve of. He's threatened to do
it in other cities. Um, he sort of said, you know,
maybe we need to do this in Chicago was one
of the cities that Donald Trump mentioned. And, you know, again,
it comes back to what you were saying earlier. This
is something that authoritarian governments tend to gravitate towards. And,
(15:00):
you know, they view it as something that's part of
their wheelhouse and that they need to do. I mean,
we have these debates back home as well, right? Lenient
bail conditions. And there are plenty of people who adamantly
believe that those sorts of things need to be tightened up, um,
that we need to be tougher on youth criminals. And
as we said right at the beginning, even though the
stats are going down, this is a city that has
(15:23):
historically had a crime problem, and it could certainly be
a lot lower.
S1 (15:28):
Well, Michael, we're so lucky that you are there on
the ground reporting on this for us. So thank you
so much for your time.
S10 (15:34):
Thank you.
S1 (15:42):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Julia Karkazis.
Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered
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(16:07):
Subscribe and to stay up to date, sign up to
our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary of the
day's most important news in your inbox every morning. Links
are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. Thanks
for listening.
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Wednesday,
August 13th. It was a scene straight out of the
Donald Trump playbook. A rambling press conference where he spoke
about oceanfront property in Ukraine, his upcoming meeting with Russian
(00:22):
President Vladimir Putin in Russia, though he's actually meeting him
in Alaska. And then, as if on cue, his claim
that Washington, D.C., has been overtaken by violent gangs and
bloodthirsty criminals. Today, North America correspondent Michael Koziol on Trump's
historic move to take over the police force in the
nation's capital and send in the National Guard. What this
(00:46):
all means, whether it's legal and what it feels like
now on the streets of Washington, D.C.. So, Michael, let's
just start with the basics. We know that Trump has
declared a crime emergency, and he's deploying hundreds of National
Guard members to the streets of Washington. So tell us,
(01:06):
you know the basics. Who is he putting on the
ground and why?
S2 (01:10):
So he's decided to deploy the National Guard, which is
a branch of the US military, sort of answers to
both the feds and the states. Um, so in a
normal US state, the state governor sort of controls what
the National Guard does, and they sort of usually called
in to help with national disasters or, you know, incidents
(01:30):
of serious civil unrest. Now, in the case of DC, um,
which is not a state, the federal government and indeed
the president has control over what the National Guard does
so he can send them in.
S3 (01:45):
This is Liberation Day in DC, and we're going to
take our capital back. We're taking it back.
S2 (01:51):
And he can also, it turns out, seize control of
the Washington DC police under the Home Rule Act of
1973 is allowed to, uh, take control of DC safe
place for up to 30.
S3 (02:05):
Days in Washington today is higher than that of Bogota, Colombia,
Mexico City. Some of the places that you hear about
as being the worst places on Earth. Much higher. This
is much higher.
S2 (02:18):
So that's what he's announced. Those two things taking over
the cops and sending in the National Guard. And yes,
this is in response to what the president and his
team have decried as a crime emergency, which is obviously
heavily contested.
S1 (02:38):
Well, I definitely am so happy to be speaking to
you right now, because not only are we speaking to
you on Tuesday morning, Australian time, when this is really
kicking off where you are in Washington, D.C., but you've
been living there for seven months. And Trump, we know,
has justified this move by saying that the nation's capital
has been overrun by, quote, violent gangs.
S3 (02:57):
Violent gangs and bloodthirsty criminals, roving mobs of wild youth,
drugged out maniacs and homeless people.
S1 (03:05):
So tell us. I mean, is this an accurate depiction
of what's happening in Washington, D.C.? Because we know that
city officials have countered this by saying, well, actually, crime
generally is at a 30 year low here.
S2 (03:16):
Yeah. And look, I think on these things, it's better
to go by the data rather than anecdote. And so
it's true that crime is currently coming down.
S4 (03:27):
I'm Muriel Bowser. I'm the mayor of Washington, D.C.. This year,
crime isn't just down from 2023. Uh, it's also down
from 2019, before the pandemic. And we're at a 30
year violent crime low.
S2 (03:47):
Now, part of that is to do with the fact
that there was a legitimate crime spike and spike in
violent crime in Washington, D.C., uh, just at the tail
end of Covid.
S4 (03:58):
I believe that the president's view of D.C. is shaped
by his Covid era experience during his first term.
S2 (04:08):
And the mayor, you know, conceded that this was not
a great time. Those were things like armed robberies and carjackings.
But also, you know, that there had been a concerted
effort on the city's behalf to get the crime rate down.
And that's happened. So to say that all of a
sudden there's now an emergency, uh, is clearly not borne
out on the evidence. Um, now, having said that, Washington, D.C.,
(04:32):
compared to, I mean, compared to an Australian city, is
a more dangerous city. It's a like a lot of
big US cities. Um, it struggles with crime that, you know, and,
you know, we know that the US is often different
in this regard. They have guns. People use them. Just
earlier this year, you know, um, those two Israeli embassy staffers, uh,
(04:55):
were shot on the street. Now, in that case, that
was someone who had come here, um, to Washington, DC
to undertake that crime.
S5 (05:02):
A man detained and handcuffed by event security was heard
chanting free, free Palestine.
S2 (05:07):
But it's not fair to say, as the president has,
that there's this sudden emergency happening that kind of justifies
a federal intervention. Um, you know, by all means, if
you want to intervene as the federal government, fine. I
guess they're doing it here in D.C. because they can.
As opposed to other cities around the US where there's
a state government in control.
S1 (05:29):
And so, I guess, what sort of backlash have we
seen so far? And have any prominent Democrats put up
a fight?
S2 (05:35):
Yeah. Look, um, D.C. is close to the hearts of
a lot of Democrats, people who work in government, even
if they don't live here. Um, so, you know, we've
seen prominent Democrats like Hakeem Jeffries, the leader of the
Democrats in the House of Representatives, um, speak out against this.
Nancy Pelosi, uh, has spoken out against this. A lot
of them are making the point that, you know, Donald
(05:55):
Trump on law and order in D.C. has very little
credibility because of those January 6th riots, uh, from 2021,
which he really helped foster, uh, and encourage until, you know,
he belatedly decided on this has gone too far and
we need to rein them in. So a lot of
Democrats are very angry about what he's done today and
(06:17):
a lot of just, you know, ordinary people very upset.
You know, you know, there are a couple of hundred
people who gathered down on 16th Street today.
S6 (06:25):
Now we say no.
S7 (06:30):
We say no.
S2 (06:34):
Home rule, as they call it, is a very big
thing here in D.C.. There's a lot of anger, um,
about the federal government generally and not specific to Donald Trump.
I mean, people may not realize D.C. doesn't have any
representation in Congress, or at least not any voting representation.
It has a non-voting delegate in the House of Representatives, which,
(06:56):
you know, is sort of pointless, really. And, you know,
if you walk around D.C., you'll see almost every car
has a number plate that says no taxation without representation.
It's a long running gripe here in the District of Columbia. Uh,
and so then to have the government come in and say,
we're going to take over your police force and we're
going to send in the troops. Is, you know, is
is really pushing the buttons of a lot of people
(07:18):
here in D.C.. And also, you've got to remember, this
is a very, very democratic city, something like 93, 94%
of people who live in D.C. vote Democrat. So Donald
Trump doing this is bound to get people upset.
S1 (07:32):
Well, let's get into this, because one basic question that
I have and I imagine many listeners would have too,
is is this legal? Because we know that the mayor
of Washington, D.C., has called it unsettling, right, but seems
to have conceded that it's lawful. Meanwhile, the attorney general
of D.C. called Trump's declaration of an emergency and calling
in the National Guard unlawful. So what's going on here?
S2 (07:54):
Well, look like so many things that Donald Trump does.
We may find out in court. Um, if this is tested. But, look,
I've been speaking to an historian at, uh, one of
the nearby universities, uh, who has written a book about
the history of D.C.. And he was pretty clear. He,
you know, he's dead against what Trump is doing, but
he says Trump does have the right to do it.
You know, this is not a state. This is the
(08:16):
District of Columbia which Congress has authority for. Congress has
the legal authority for the seat of government. Now, it's
delegated that authority in for most things to the D.C. Council. Nonetheless,
the president retains the right to do things such as
take over the D.C. police for up to 30 days. Um, now,
after that, he'll have to seek permission from Congress. We
(08:38):
know Congress has been rather reluctant to stand up to
Donald Trump, um, even on things that it disagrees with.
So he may very well get that approval if he
seeks it. But, uh, look, you know, if the D.C.
attorney general has a legal argument to prosecute, we'll find out.
But for the time being, my understanding is that this
is something that Donald Trump largely has the right to do.
S1 (08:58):
Okay. And I do want to actually play devil's advocate
for a minute, because your latest piece took me down
a rabbit hole and I was looking at, well, what
other cities have called in the National Guard. You know,
are they always Republicans or who does this? And of course,
I found out that New York's Democratic governor called in
the National Guard just last year to fight subway crime.
So what's the difference?
S2 (09:17):
To be fair, the National Guard has been sent into D.C.
on many occasions over the years. The key difference with
some other locations is that in those states, for example,
the one that you gave in New York, the governor
of that state called in their National Guard, which answers
to them. You know, the sort of unprecedented thing in
this case is that Donald Trump is doing it without
(09:39):
the cooperation of the D.C. government, without the cooperation of
Muriel Bowser, the mayor, or the government that is in
control of D.C.. It was the same in California a
couple of months ago during those protests against Donald Trump's
immigration raids, where he sent in the National Guard against
the wishes of California Governor Gavin Newsom.
S8 (10:01):
Lawyers for President Trump and California Governor Gavin Newsom are
clashing in court. The start of a trial with national implications.
The state is suing the Trump administration, saying that they
unlawfully federalized thousands of National Guard troops to quell anti-U.S.
Ice protests back in June. Right now.
S2 (10:17):
What we're seeing here is really a new thing on.
S8 (10:19):
The.
S2 (10:20):
Precedent. The custom is that a governor will call in
the National Guard or request that the feds send in
the National Guard, and then they'll do so. In this case,
it's being done against their wishes and explicitly against their wishes.
S1 (10:36):
We'll be right back. So, Michael, as we've discussed, there
have been many reactions to Trump's deployment of the National
Guard in Washington, D.C., but it's got to be said
amongst the more critical are those who see this as
a move towards authoritarianism. We know the US program director
of Human Rights Watch said, quote, that as we've seen
(10:59):
around the world, the military takeover of local law enforcement
is a harbinger of authoritarianism. Does this at all reflect
what you're feeling on the ground, like, are people thinking
this is a really bad sign of things to come?
S9 (11:12):
You know, I think people.
S2 (11:12):
Are very nervous about about this. And you saw it
in California as well. Uh, you saw, uh, people really
react badly to that all the way from Governor Gavin
Newsom down that, you know, this is our territory, and
we don't want your, uh, federal troops being sent in. Uh, and,
you know, look, they're it's an intimidating presence. Um, these
(11:34):
are people in khaki army uniform, uh, carrying guns, walking
down the streets. And this is a small city, right?
It's a compact city. So you will see these people, uh,
out and about where the world leaders are going to
stand up and make a big deal out of this.
I don't know, we may have to see what happens
when these troops, you know, do arrive, uh, on the street.
And if there are clashes or, you know, if things
(11:56):
get hairy. But, yeah, there's there's certainly apprehension, uh, about
what this might mean. Uh, and, you know, definitely a
lot of cynicism about what this is really all about.
I have my suspicions that a lot of this is
kind of just for show. I mean, you know, there
are limits to what the National Guard or especially the
(12:16):
active military can do in terms of actual law enforcement.
So we saw in California their role was really to
assist the local police there and to basically beef up
the presence of law enforcement. For the most part, it
was local police still performing the arrests. And, you know,
because when you have members of the military in military
(12:36):
uniform arresting citizens, that is a whole new can of
worms and something that is for the most part, not allowed. So,
you know, whether this actually changes law enforcement or not,
I don't know. I think for the most part, it's
about a show of force.
S1 (12:50):
Well, I mean, this really does bring us to a
crucial question, which is really, why is he doing this?
I know, I know why he has said he's doing it.
He's justified by saying, you know, the streets are being
overrun by bloodthirsty criminals. Statistics would suggest otherwise. So is
this just to distract from the Jeffrey Epstein case which
has been dogging him? Well, what is this about, do
(13:12):
you think?
S2 (13:13):
Look, I mean, you could read that into it. I mean,
I'm always reluctant to ascribe specific motives like that, but
I think a broader way of looking at that point
is that this is ground. This is territory on which
Donald Trump and his administration feel like they're kind of
on a political winner, broadly speaking. I mean, being tough
(13:34):
on immigration has been a success for Donald Trump for
the most part. There's there are some indications that, you know,
people are questioning that lately. But, you know, compared to
something like the tariffs, which and, you know, his economic management,
which people have been a bit more skeptical about the
tough on immigration stance, shutting the border, uh, you know,
(13:55):
stopping the illegal immigrants coming over the border that has
been a source of strength. So that kind of tough
on crime, tough on migration, you know, you sending in
the police, sending in the National Guard that I think,
broadly speaking, Donald Trump sees as a winner. The Republicans
see it as a winner for them. And you know,
you saw him make that argument. He linked it to
(14:16):
his success on the border. He said, you know, all
that success we had closing the border, we're going to
have that in D.C. and it's not going to take
very long. So you can kind of see the thread
that they're drawing there. And now whether that's because they're feeling,
you know, vulnerable on Epstein or politically weak on other matters,
I don't know. I don't want necessarily want to ascribe
that motive, but I think they just say this is
(14:38):
something that they can do that people in other parts
of the country will approve of. He's threatened to do
it in other cities. Um, he sort of said, you know,
maybe we need to do this in Chicago was one
of the cities that Donald Trump mentioned. And, you know, again,
it comes back to what you were saying earlier. This
is something that authoritarian governments tend to gravitate towards. And,
(15:00):
you know, they view it as something that's part of
their wheelhouse and that they need to do. I mean,
we have these debates back home as well, right? Lenient
bail conditions. And there are plenty of people who adamantly
believe that those sorts of things need to be tightened up, um,
that we need to be tougher on youth criminals. And
as we said right at the beginning, even though the
stats are going down, this is a city that has
(15:23):
historically had a crime problem, and it could certainly be
a lot lower.
S1 (15:28):
Well, Michael, we're so lucky that you are there on
the ground reporting on this for us. So thank you
so much for your time.
S10 (15:34):
Thank you.
S1 (15:42):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Julia Karkazis.
Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered
by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit the page or.
(16:07):
Subscribe and to stay up to date, sign up to
our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary of the
day's most important news in your inbox every morning. Links
are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. Thanks
for listening.
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