EP 2 | Dyson Heppell | Essendon Bombers Football Legend - The Performance Circus

Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:00):
I took over the role of skipper when I was 24,
and for me at the time, it was like I
had to be the voice. I had to be the
one that was, you know, dominating games and being the
influence and looking after everyone. And just like, I feel
like I spread myself too thin everywhere. The wolf is
not the leader of the pack. He doesn't walk out

(00:21):
in front. The true leader stands behind all the way
at the back and he watches the pace of the pack.

S2 (00:27):
You've been given the opportunity, you know, to lead your
wolf pack. That's that's something that's super special. And not
everyone gets to do witnessing job.

S1 (00:35):
And the way he held himself throughout that saga, and
just being the front man of it all and all
he cared about was just protecting, protecting his teammates. And
he took the brunt of everything.

S2 (00:45):
That's what makes us elite, because we're a little bit nuts.

S3 (00:50):
Mitch Creek, that call for champion. This is the performance circus.

S1 (01:02):
Welcome back to the Performance Circus with Mitch Creek and
the one and only Bec Cole. Now, today we are
going to continue on sorting through the clutter of elite behaviors, mindset,
and lifestyle. And we're gonna handle it a bit, Cole
and introduce who we're speaking to today.

S2 (01:16):
He has played 235 games for Essendon Football Club. He's
been part of the leadership group since he was 20
and skipper for six years. And now I'm gonna hand
ball over to Dyson Heppell.

S1 (01:31):
We go. Welcome. Lovely I love it. Thanks gang. Fresh
off a Bali trip to look at him ten. And
glowing little glow.

S2 (01:38):
And just to start you off hot off the press
thanks to champion. We couldn't do this episode without them today.
Have a have a look at your pizza slice. It's
it's pretty pretty cool.

S1 (01:48):
There's no pineapple on it. There's no pineapple. Pineapple on pizza. No.
If you run on pineapple on pizza, you're getting booted
off his podcast fruits.

S2 (01:57):
That's nice. Donut champion tea for you. That's great.

S1 (02:00):
That's the crew champion. Good work. That's great. So we'll
be rocking.

S2 (02:03):
Then we'll dice. What we want to get in with
you today. We really want to talk about leadership. You've
been I guess you started that journey really early in
your career, which is really impressive. Um, crikey. You and
I are also captains of our basketball teams. And I
think the first question I really want to start you

(02:23):
off is, is were you born a leader or is
this something that you grew into because it's not a
natural thing for everyone?

S1 (02:30):
Yeah. No, it's a great shout. I think growing up, um,
from a young age, I was always quite vocal, so
quite confident in myself. Um, but I think, I think
you and I may have actually been the skippers of
the under 12, say, Bible team. We didn't find a
photo of that. We do. Guaranteed. So both of it,
all of us go way back, actually, which is unreal.

(02:51):
And it's been amazing to follow the journeys of of
the three of us as we've been going. And um,
but I think coming back like, yeah, leadership was it
was probably more natural. I think growing up, um, as
a kid always just, you know, having a crack at
whatever it may be. And, um, I was always one
that was just trying to encourage everyone else around me
just to get the best out of themselves, I guess. And, uh. Yeah.

(03:14):
And then, you know, as I went along, you, you
learn to develop new skills, you learn to, to know
how to push and prod and who to cuddle and
things like that. So it's been quite a journey. But, um,
you know, I do love the growth aspect of leadership. Yeah.
I think like, we grew up country boys. We. You're
laying out, boy, I'm back from the country of Horsham. Beck.

(03:37):
Was Becks one of the more metro gals up in
the burbs? Yeah. She's, uh, she's one of the ones
we didn't really want to talk to too much, but, hey,
we had, uh, like, under 16 national champs. Vic country
together is where we first met. And you're a bit
of a two prong athlete. At the time, you were
a gun. At footy, you're a gun at basketball. You're
a little shooting point guard. You did a bit of everything.

(03:59):
And I guess there's a lot of basketball's that transition
into footy really, really naturally. But then you don't see
the progression from AFL into basketball. But you definitely made
the jump. Clearly now as a captain, as a an
All Australian in AFL, you've been very dominant for a
long time now. But do you feel that there's a
transitional statement that multi-sport athletes are those that are better

(04:22):
suited for the games that we do play? Like I
have always done multiple things. You've always played multiple sports.
The guys that will grow up and just play footy,
I feel like aren't as dominant as some of the
guys that come into the league and have been basketballers
or have been, you know, other multi-sport athletes. Do you
kind of see that as well? Yeah, absolutely. And you know,
guys that have played prior to me. So look at

(04:43):
like Scott Pendlebury, Jarryd Radford, guys like this that um,
just have that vision and awareness which is comes from
a basketball background. Um, but there's certainly a hell of
a lot of crossover, even just the, you know, the
ability to, you know, in tight spaces, things like that. And,
and being able to work through those type of situations
and um, yeah, I reckon the, the basketball had a

(05:04):
major part to play in, I guess my progression as
a footballer. Definitely. Um, but yeah, I think, you know, by,
I reckon we, we met way earlier than that. We
used to like have some great tussles with the Horsham
Hornets back in the day. We had it. You guys
absolutely hated you had 50 on us in one of
the games. And I remember it was the easiest 50

(05:24):
I've ever seen coming from me, who literally couldn't fall
out of a boat and hit water in the ocean
when I shot. So I dropped 50. But also we
got done because you had a stacked team, you had
a filthy team. I remember just crying. I was a
I was actually a horror sport when I was like,
just yeah, I saw loser real sore loser when I
was young. But anyway, yeah, I did drop 50 on

(05:45):
you did, did I just, I that was the the
first 50 ball I ever had. And it's the last
one I've actually ever had against our team. But we
had a gun squad, gun squad. A lot of guys
have played AFL. Even now. We got Jake Lloyd. Yeah. Um,
Danny Kennedy was even on a team we had on
the on the podcast. Michael O'Callaghan, big maker Riley Riley
McFarlane had a team. We had an absolute squad. Sean

(06:08):
Bruce was yeah. You know there's there's quite a talented
list there.

S2 (06:11):
But you have a good celebrity basketball matchup team. I
think that's a lot of country boys coming in. It's
a good.

S1 (06:18):
Thing you weren't the man then. No I wasn't until
like 16 and he was a bang. Yeah.

S2 (06:24):
He just looked like he did a million chin ups today.
I remember going to the A's and I was like,
why are you so shredded? We're all, I just hit puberty.

S1 (06:35):
That is true.

S2 (06:35):
Nuts. Do you think there's a difference between being a
leader of a basketball team? Can be compared to being
a leader of a football team? Because for me, we're
a bit smaller. There's, you know, maybe 10 to 15 people. Well,
in the women's league we have maybe three coaches if
you're lucky. Whereas I feel like with football it's almost

(06:57):
like a high school, like there's so many people involved.

S1 (07:01):
Yeah, that's a good shout. It'd be interesting to like
feed off you guys on this one, because you do
see that ego dynamic of basketball, um, and the big
personalities and whatever. And no doubt they're there in footy.
But for mine, I guess I probably didn't play to
like little country boys. We were cruising in under sixteens,
but more so the elite level when there is like,

(07:22):
you know, there's there's a gun, there's a couple of
like key guns where it'd be a, you know, tough
dynamic to, to navigate at times. Oh just on footy
I think you need a, you need a leadership group
to be able to create a culture and foster a
really healthy environment for guys to thrive in. Um, whereas
because you do have so many people and you know,
they're at the elite level, it ranges from 18 to

(07:45):
35 or whatever. So it's um, so many different personalities. And,
you know, I'm not going to suit my leadership style
is not going to suit everyone. So you do need
a team around you to be able to navigate that. Yeah.
I think it's hard because what you touch on basketball
is pretty simple because you've probably got three groups. You've
probably got the the mature veterans that have been around

(08:07):
a lot longer and understand the game. They understand the
leadership qualities that you kind of, you know, put forth
every single day. And a lot of it's just lead
by example. Don't say too much. And as you said,
you cuddled the right people. You're aggressive and firm with
others you're understanding and a little quieter on the side.
But then in footy there's like probably 15 groups and
then there's guys that aren't playing up and down lists

(08:29):
and you've got to walk into the room and kind
of have that voice over everyone to an extent. And
I've always attributed leaderships to wolves, and I love the
the saying of, you know, the wolf is not the
leader of the pack. He doesn't walk out in front.
The true leader stands behind all the way at the back,
and he watches the pace of the pack. He watches

(08:50):
how you know the the strongest and the the bravest
are at the front. Then it's the sick and the
elderly and they set the pace. Then it's the core group,
then it's the warriors. And then right at the back,
there's the fucking the leader that everyone thinks is them.
That's how I've always looked at leadership is it's not
about being at the front. It's just doing the right thing,
making sure everyone's going the same direction. But with 45 blokes,

(09:13):
some are 18 walking into a couple hundred thousand bucks,
some guys are on $1 million. It's just like, Holy shit,
how am I going to try and get this bunch
of hooligans? Essentially, because we're all pretty rough around the
neck with like, obviously I remember us growing up. You
think about the camps you went to and you know,
you've got your sleeping bag on the floor of the
stadium and they're like, you know, lights out at night

(09:33):
and everyone's walking around, boys on one court, girls and
the other court guys and girls are sneaking around everywhere.
You were the ringleader. Always. Shut up. Every part of it.
I did not, I did not say that story. You
guys don't say you were the wolf that was charging, man.
That's biting legs. Yeah, but that's kind of how it feels.
Is like you're trying to keep people into some kind

(09:55):
of alignment of. This is the greater good. This is
the goal we have. But how do we keep everyone
on point? And I think that's a thing I want
you to touch on, is in a big group of people,
when there are so many people that are straying from
the pack, almost. How do you kind of navigate, I guess,
the whole ecosystem, because it's not just you, it's the
coaches and everyone else. But in a large group like that.

(10:16):
How do you feel your leadership traits have developed, I guess,
over the years, to help maintain that steady direction of,
I guess, the greater good? Yeah. I love your analogy,
I reckon. Yeah, I'm stealing that one. The Wolf. Um,
I think that has been one of the biggest growth
journeys for me. He's like, I took over the the
role of skipper when I was 24, I think 23, 24.

(10:38):
And for me at the time, it was like I
had to be the voice, I had to be the
one that was, you know, dominating games and being the
influence and looking after everyone. And just like, I feel
like I spread myself too thin everywhere, you know? And
I felt like I was being my authentic self at
the time, but I found it just ended up draining
my energy. And in the end it was okay, I needed.

(11:01):
Take care of me first to be able to lead
the best I possibly can. And that was to that
point of like, take a bit of a back seat,
let everyone else be the voice, be the be the end.
If I need to step in, then you can. And
it's like I found it a really interesting journey. The
more that I sort of just navigated and watched. And
if guys, if you I notice guys more that I

(11:23):
wouldn't have before, you know I would be like, okay,
I've got a good read on, uh, this person where
you might be a bit down, you can go and
just have a good conversation with them. And do they
need a pep up or whatever it may be. And
I found like, my relationships got a hell of a
lot stronger when I just took a bit of a
foot off the throttle a bit and just observed and then, um,
was able to have a much stronger impact, I feel,

(11:46):
and felt more relaxed and more authentic, my own leadership.
And just like in the end, it was like I
was just enjoying my footy more and just let things flow. And, um,
you know, if the group needed a rev at any stage,
I would. It wasn't just like just, you know, a
time where it was just I just had to do
it and say everything. So yeah, it was quite a
quite a good learning journey over the six years of skipper. Yeah.

S2 (12:07):
Being 24 I think that is so young to lead
a team in general. But at 20 you're part of
the leadership group, which is massive. Is there one captain
you had especially I want to ask about like James,
how did you learn a lot from him. And I
guess like what things did he possess that you were
maybe like, oh, I know, maybe that's not in my toolbox,

(12:29):
but I want to add that in because I think
that would be great for, you know, when it's my
turn to serve.

S1 (12:34):
Yeah, for sure. I think it was hurt his first
year as coach, uh, which is my first year as
a player, um, barrack for us. And growing up idolised Herdy.
So it was just an amazing experience for me coming in.
And he was just a massive influence on my career
in terms of not waiting to be a leader, not
waiting to, you know, you wait your time and then

(12:55):
you grow and then you. He was just like from
the get go, he's like, mate, you just go and
set your mark on whatever you want. Your career to
be and wherever you want to steer this club. And
so he's backing and support was just enormous for me,
just to just to go for it. And, um, you know,
at times it was like we had guys at the
club in that period that were of the old school
mentality of like, you know, earn your respect first that,

(13:18):
you know, you can't talk up until, yeah, what do
you know? You've been here for three weeks and you're
talking up in front of everyone, things like that in
the entire early part of my career, until I took
over the reins from him. And the things I learned
from him, from him was his genuine care that he
had for his teammates was just phenomenal. Like he would
he would know, you know, the the, the head space,

(13:39):
the even, even. He could watch you run and just
be like, you seem a bit lethargic or whatever. He
just had such a good read on the group. Um,
and Jobe just had played a big part in terms of,
you know, setting up training, what the weekly loads look like,
all of this kind of stuff that you sort of
I wasn't privy to at the time until you I
became part of the leadership group and, and you just

(14:00):
see the influence that he had on the broader club
as well was, um, was really impressive. So I had
big boots to fill after that. It's impressive just to
hear that there's so many leadership styles. There's there's so
many different characters we have to kind of portray ourselves
to be. But then you go home and then when
you've run around in front of 100,000 screaming Dons fans, like,

(14:24):
what does Dyson do to switch off? Like, I know,
you know, you've got family, you've got your dog. I
know seeing it all over social media, but what is
what is the the quiet time because there's this mews.
It's like a quiet that you get in a car
after you've probably had like someone who's in a really
awkward argument. I always tell people this, it's a really

(14:45):
awkward argument. In your car, they get out of the
car and it's dead silent. You imagine that? That's what
it feels like for me when I finish a game,
when there's 12,000 in a little arena screaming, going crazy.
Everyone's asking, pulling at you in a million different ways.
I want this, I want that. But then you go
home and there's that mews and it's like, what do
I do now? Yeah. Like, what do you do to

(15:06):
kind of get away from the craziness that we've kind
of submerged ourselves into? Yeah, sure. It's, um, you know,
Don's fans are just incredible. Like when, when we're up
and about, there's nothing better. But also on the other spectrum,
when you're not open about, you get absolutely fit. So
look and and it is quite addictive that rush of
the crowd and the, you know and and the best

(15:27):
part that I love is that I can make someone's day,
you know, like you get that feeling of like you
give your boots to a kid after a game or
just even signing autographs before the game and chewing the
fat with the crowd. And, um, it is just an
amazing feeling to put a smile on, particularly kids faces. Um,
and so you sort of encapsulating that bubble during the

(15:50):
game and after the game and, and then as you say,
you get home and the whether it's a, you know, the,
the sickening feeling of getting smashed or the elation of
a huge win sharing. With your teammates. You are just
riding on these emotions. And, um, I think, you know,
for mine, it's taken me a while, but I'm quite
good now, being able to just get home and sort

(16:10):
of putting a cut in that game and then just
being able to relax for the afternoon or whatever it
may be. And that's, as you say, spending time with Kate, um,
my fiancé and they. Yeah. Maggie. Uh, and it took
us 13 years as long as we got, um, good on. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
And then. Yeah, as you said, I spent a couple

(16:32):
of golden retrievers. Love spending time with the dogs. We're
close to the beach so often I'll go down and
just have a dip in the beach and sort of
rinse off and then and wind down from the game,
and I'll find the quicker you can clutter and just
declutter your thoughts and get them out and, um, and
relax as much as you can. Your body recovers quicker. Yeah.
To process things, you know, have better conversations and then

(16:52):
your week just rolls on and flows from there. So
do you think that when you said just then I
kind of picked up on it, but you felt like
you go to the beach and you just like, rinse yourself?
Like that's kind of shedding the person who you've portrayed
yourself to be to everybody. Because Dyson Heppell isn't Dyson
Heppell the footballer. Yeah. And I know with our previous
guest in Danny Kinley, like we both work with him

(17:14):
very closely. But getting rid of that. Yes. That that
shell of who you've kind of portrayed yourself to be
to the world, to the 100,000, to the win, the loss,
the whatever, the critics. Because you get home, the social media,
there's everything and it's great. Sometimes it's phenomenal. It's good. Like,
how good's this last great? Yeah. You get home and
then you sit there and it's pretty quiet. Kate might
be making some food, or she might be, you know,

(17:36):
sitting there getting some popcorn for a movie and you're like, fuck,
that's crazy. Yeah. You have to get rid of that,
that little fake person, because that's not who you are.
That is exactly right. And that has been a process
as well of not wrapping my whole identity up in Dyson.
The footballer, you know, it's it's something that I do,
but it's not who I am at my deepest core. And, um,

(17:58):
and I truly feel like I'm at a point now
where I've, I've really I'm believing that, you know, like
I've always said, like people say, don't you know, you're
not just a footballer, you know, but it's like footy
was everything I was. That was my life. I was obsessed.
And then now it's at a point where I'm at
the light of part of my career. I've had all
these experiences. I've had hundreds of teammates, six different coaches,

(18:19):
all that's just a massive experience, but more for me.
It's just like doing the internal work that has allowed
me to free myself from that. You know, the the
real identity of the footballer. So I'm able to just,
you know, navigate whatever that may be, um, as best
I can, whether it's, you know, social media getting slandered
or press conferences when you've lost six games straight or

(18:42):
whatever that is, like, you can you can handle that now,
you know, they're fun. I've been on those lines and
they're not they're not very fun. They are fun because
you kind of have to take the piss of yourself
a little bit. Yes. Yeah. Be like, yeah, I fucking
suck right now. I get that you lost six on
the trot. Yeah, I know how good is that. Right.
And we should try and make it seven. Yeah. And
credit to you too, mate. Like you do handle those
situations unbelievably well. And like I reckon from, you know,

(19:05):
whenever from young kids to your development as a leader
and as a person has just been phenomenal to watch.
So um, yeah, I'll throw I'll throw that in there.
Oh thanks, mate. Quick plug. Quick plug. That's all I'll take.
I'll give you that 20 bucks after. I'll pay for
your parking. Yeah, but no it's sick. It's it's like
it's been really cool to come on this journey together. And,
you know, you were you were a young lady yourself and, um. Yeah,

(19:26):
it's been it's been really interesting just to, I guess,
track our journeys and, um, yeah, like, as we've spoken
along the lines, you just learn so much as you go. Yeah.

S2 (19:35):
It is nuts how it does take so long or
towards the end of your career to actually realize, hey,
I'm more than just an athlete. Like, I honestly might
probably happen like 2 or 3 years ago, but I
don't think it was like fully accepted. That's the word
I love to use because I might say it and
I might really believe it. Yes. And then you're in
a really shitty period and you're like, yep, definitely don't like, no,

(19:59):
I don't 100% believe that, do I? And I feel
like I've gotten to that stage finally. Yeah, just like
you have. Um, but do you just find. Now that
you've accepted it. Like you said, you have more of
yourself to give. Maybe. Are you more vulnerable to your teammates? Uh, yeah.
And do you think that you can actually get back
more from them than you could maybe when you were 24?

S1 (20:21):
No doubt. No doubt. Back. Yeah. It's like I don't know,
I think it also I reckon at the back end
of last year I handed over the captaincy as well. And,
and I was so ready for that. Like I'd feel
like my time was done as a skipper. There was
a new coach coming in, Zach Merrett had he does
a pair of work to work on himself and he
was just blossoming into this leader. And what I didn't

(20:43):
realize though, like at the time, the amount, the weight
off the shoulders, when I actually announced that I was
handing over the reins and, and just felt this real,
just lightness and freedom and and then from there it
was like, oh, how much fun can I just have
with my footy? And then to that point it was like,
all right, if I'm in just in this really healthy
frame of mind and just like being able to just

(21:05):
let negative emotions flow through me, all that kind of stuff,
my body was healthy, I was enjoying myself, and it
was like I felt like, um, guys would warm to
me a hell of a lot more. So it was
this really interesting transition period where I nearly think I
handed over the reins as a skipper and nearly became
a better leader off the back of that, just from
just like the pure, just relaxing and whatever, just being myself.

(21:28):
But I feel like all the bank of work that
I'd done over the years would sort of just come
to the fore. And, um, and then you're interesting, a
really healthy space to, to be able to lead.

S2 (21:36):
And as an elite athlete, it has its highs of
highs and its lows of goddamn lows. Um, you've had
a very, like, big journey of being in the leadership
group in the captaincy when you had this supplement saga
that that's that's AFL is so huge in this country.
I just feel like I couldn't even imagine having to

(21:58):
go through what a, what a club could or what
people want to, you know, say to you emails, letters
on Instagram. But for you, I don't really want to
talk about that. I want to talk about how did
you feel like you had to lead this team after that?
And I guess, how did you get the group together?
How did you get the coaches and the staff to
be like, we are a unit, forget the outside. We've

(22:21):
we've served our time. Um, we're not bad people. Yeah,
everyone makes mistakes. But talk about maybe a little bit
through that journey of, damn, this whole thing just happened.
That's a huge load. Yeah. What now? How do we
how do we go about that? Yeah.

S1 (22:38):
Guaranteed. It was just like. It's funny now. Like, I
look back, I have no ill feelings. I have no
regrets or whatever it is towards that time period. But, um,
you know, going through that, that phase was that was
a real eye opener to be like, okay, I really
have to do the work here. Not to wrap myself
up in the identity of the football, like is that
could just bring me undone completely. So, um, that was

(23:00):
a massive growth period for me. Um, you know, when
when all that began, I was 19, obviously, I was
really young. And then it wasn't until I was 22,
maybe we or three that we ended up having the
year off. Um, and then, you know, it was just
a whirlwind of emotions that just was this huge pool
of chaos at times. Um, but for me, I reckon

(23:21):
I grew a lot through that period because for mine,
it was more I was more worried about my teammates.
You know, I had guys that that literally ended their careers,
that was there, that were done after that. And that's,
you know, I just felt enormous just sadness for, for
a lot of my teammates. And um, and then, you know,
looking at it coming back into the pre-season, I was

(23:42):
just in more of a space of gratitude for footy.
You know, I was like, I just love this game.
I missed it so much not being able to play,
not being able to go to the club. I couldn't
even train at proper grounds. We'll have you know, it
was it was a bizarre little backyard literally for trees.
Just come on. Here's the girls. Look at that. No. Yeah.
And it was you know, it took me time to

(24:03):
get to that period. But it was like, man, I
just like I was just buzzing when we got back
to the club and I'd taken over the reins as
a skipper. Jared Ruff head. Uh, grew up with his
family in that in lane gaffer. He'd taken over the
capsized Hawthorn and we played each other round one Friday
night in front of like 95,000. And I was like,
this is the best feeling I've ever had. You know,

(24:24):
running out, leading the team and just the experience of
that was just incredible. And, you know, just when you're
in flow, I just hit this game. I probably played
the best game in my life. I'll kick. I don't
think I've ever kicked a snag yet. So I'm 50
and I was just I was drunk about 60 some nights,
some super goals. I don't know what was happening. It's
funny because you.

S2 (24:41):
Had a year of good bloody rest. Let's.

S1 (24:45):
Put the feet up for a year, and all of
a sudden he's kicking torch in the center, you know,
mid-career breather and falling off again. But it was like, yeah,
look navigating that period back was like I think that
it helped me in really good stead that I could
get to that space of just gratitude and love for
the game again. Um, would have been tough if I
just had held on to a lot of resentment and,

(25:06):
you know, anger towards the club. Yeah, I felt whatever
it may be. And, uh. But no, not that wasn't
the case. And, you know, I just had a lot
of fun throughout that year and that's continued on. Yeah,
I think one of the cool things was my off season.
I was in Adelaide at the time, and my off
season was actually coming over to Melbourne and play for
not awarding. Yeah. And during that space of time, I

(25:28):
actually worked out with the bombers for a couple of months,
and I remember that was kind of the year it broke.
And I remember thinking like at the time I was
kind of struggling in basketball. I went through a really
good junior program under 19 worlds, like a world MVP.
And then you come into a program like a program
where there's grown ass men who are centers shooting threes,

(25:50):
doing all the shit you can't do, and then the
guards are just running posture every single day, and then
everyone's kind of making you look silly. You're not getting
the minutes. And I was like, maybe I want to
play footy. I grew up playing footy. I love footy
to death. And I remember having that conversation and thinking
this could be a real go. Like I actually really
enjoyed it. And I remember doing the time trials and
then I remember like, that's fucking why I don't like footy.

(26:12):
I was so like on the edge. And then they're like, okay,
you need a three time trial. I was like, fuck,
three guys. I was like, righto, like, yeah. So the
midfielders are doing like, I think it was three fifteens
or something like that. And then the forwards and the
ruckman were doing like I think it was 345. Yeah,
still pretty. And I remember my first K was like
for ten years. Like I'm saying I'm only going downhill

(26:34):
from like okay, so I don't have the conditioning for AFL,
but I actually remember the time of just speaking to
the crew that were there and the management they were in,
and they were like, hey, how have you enjoyed it?
I was like, I've loved it. And you had a
court at your facility as well, and you guys were
all down there and working out. I remember being in
the locker room and looking around, I saw your locker

(26:55):
and your boots in there. I was going to steal
them and put them somewhere else, but I didn't. But
I just remember the feeling of like, I visualize myself
in that space and then thinking like, this could be
home one day. Yeah. Was there ever a point during
your journey that you thought, imagine if I went and
just stayed with basketball? Yeah. Have you ever thought of that?

(27:17):
It's probably a question you've never been asked, but I
feel like a lot of basketballers have the opportunity to
blend back in to footy because it's a lot more natural,
confined spaces, like you said, but the other way around,
have you ever thought, you know what? I'd love to.
I've given it a great crack. I've done a lot
of great, you know, all Australian, you know, best and fairest.
I've been a captain, a skipper. I've gone through some

(27:38):
of the worst times in the AFL. But now, could
I ever see myself playing another sport? Right. That's. Could
you ever do that? You reckon I like, I love
basketball still, I love it. And we've, we've got a
court there at the club and it's awesome to be
able to just shoot around and whatever. But mate I
think I think for me it's like I'll go to the,
you know, I was a weapon when I was 12
and then got to the age of about 60, and

(28:00):
that's when you started just flying. And my, you know,
my wheels fell off the wagon at that age. So
it was a pretty clear cut direction for me to
go down the footy path. But um, then like, I'll
get a buzz. Still like watching watching you play, watching
the NBA, all of that follow that with a passion.
So it's like, man, no doubt if I had the dream,
I'd go and play in the NBA. An enormous kid

(28:21):
over there. That'd be nice. But but yeah, look the
same time. Yeah. Just being able to be drafted, playing
footy for the club I grew up barracking for is uh,
is pretty special. Do you think if they had an
all star game, AFL's top ten, you know ex basketballers
now AFL players, you gave them six months of training.

(28:43):
You brought them over to play against an ML side
right now I imagine. How do you reckon you would
fare and who would you have in your starting five
over the past decade? That's not bad because you've got
some talented guys. Penders yourself, man, I don't even know
if I don't think I'd make it. I wouldn't make
the fight. You're the skipper, so you've got to pick

(29:04):
yourself on point guard. Me? Yeah, as you say, you have.
Not nearly for sure. Not nearly. Because out of nowhere
do you ever watch that? I think we have to
overlay this and that. Nnewi at a Perth Wildcats game.
They said, hey mate, do you want to do a dunk?
And they gave him the ball at half time and
he walked up in I think jeans and he did
it between the legs. Dunk I swear to God it's

(29:27):
the wildest thing I've ever seen. You've got a YouTube. Yes.
We're going to find it and put it over the top.
I remember seeing this and thinking, what the what the hell?
That's insane. So you've got yourself newly married? We'd have,
I reckon Matty D be there for sure. He was
a weapon. And then Penders. Rafi. Who else can we
reel off then? Oh, what about, like, Hugh Greenwood? Huey. Yeah, Huey.

(29:50):
Got it.

S2 (29:51):
Classic. All I remember from I is Hughie. Classic skipper.
If he was ever on the bench and we just
take the piss, will I? So intense. Loved it. But
just like the clap of following creaky down the floor.
If you did a good thing. Love it.

S1 (30:05):
Love, love, Hughie. That's a big that's a big shout
out right there. Yeah. Absolute. I know that's a great squad,
but with a bit of training here. We came down
this pre-season actually, and we're working at it. I said,
hey mate, you want to come for a round round?
We're going to play some like three on three, four
and four. And he's like, yeah, sweet. He came down
and I tell you what, he was the best player
to play with. Pick and roll. Still throwing dimes making shots.

(30:27):
And he's like what's going on here? I was like, man,
we might be at a point guard at some point.
You need to sign up, mate. He's he still had it.
I'll tell you what though. I'd like to think that
we could give you half a run for your money,
but I do not think so. But to cut that
much training, that's a fair. You got a fair effort? Yeah. No,
I don't think we'd get anywhere near that. But I

(30:47):
don't mind it that it'd be good fun.

S2 (30:50):
Um, I have an interesting question. If you. I always
like to, you know, if I, if I died and
people are at my funeral.

S1 (30:56):
Okay.

S2 (30:57):
Like, what would they say about me? Like, because I
would love to be like, I was a great friend.
I was a, you know, I was loyal. I was,
you know, brightened up their day, whatever it was. Yeah.
Let's say we're at your funeral, but we're talking about
your leadership. And like, I think this is also maybe
hard because it's like, hey, I'm proud of myself. Like,
what have I done? That's, you know, really well, sure, sure.

(31:19):
What do you think people would be saying about you
and your leadership and like, what you've given them over
the years?

S1 (31:27):
Yeah, yeah. Great question. I think like I would like
to say that I've been a really caring leader, really
caring teammate. And I feel like the energy that I
bring to the group, I think I foster a really
healthy environment for guys to be themselves completely, um, and
feel a real sense of belonging as well within the group. And, um, yeah,

(31:48):
I'd say that and. Yeah. And just it and it's, it's,
you know, I feel like it's not all about me.
I leant on guys to help with my leadership and
spread the load and, um, yeah, I feel I feel
like that'd be nice if I said a couple of
those things. But yeah, for me, it was just trying
to bring really good energy to the group. And just

(32:10):
like that was when I, when I took the role over,
it was like, all right, anyone who plays under my
leadership is just like, can feel completely at home, feel
like they can be themselves. And I feel like that
sort of fosters an environment where they can just get
the best growth out of themselves that they possibly can.
So that's what I'm still trying to do, I guess.

S2 (32:28):
I think I've loved listening to you speak, because even
from early on, you were saying when I was 12
and you just wanted to look after your teammate is
the first thing that came out of your mouth. And
I think that's something that's super. I feel like I'm
learning a bit now, like just talking to you and
this is great, but your your team is first and
you're more worried about them rather than you. And I

(32:49):
think that speaks volumes of you in top like status
and like that.

S1 (32:54):
But I sort of it was a funny period. Like
you go through your journey and of course you want
to be the best that you possibly can be. And
early in my career was like, oh, I just want
to get in the team. I want to play every week.
And it was it was a meat focus. And then
it was like, right, I want to be the best.
I want to be in. If I want to be
an all Australian, it's like, all right. But then how
fulfilling is that? You know, and you get to that

(33:16):
level and you're like, nah, stuff. It's like it got
to a point where it was like, I'm just going
to give as much as I can to developing my teammates,
just being a bloody good teammate. And then I found
I got so much more back, you know, and just
felt so much joy. And, and I'm a lot more
prouder of those moments than I am of any of
the achievements or the accolades or whatever it may be.

S2 (33:38):
And I think you want to leave a legacy. This
is how I say 100% say this with you, and
Phoenix Creek is like, you want to leave the basketball
or football space better than you left it. But say
you and I, we both started Flyers and Phoenix from
from when it started to to now. And it's like,
I want everyone to remember how we made this club

(33:59):
so special. And I wanted to I want to leave
it better than when we first found it and the
generations to come. It's like it's smooth sailing and they're
not having to go through the grit or the tough
times or, you know, keep, keep on rolling. The good
times of what made it special. Yeah. Do you do
you find that cranky?

S1 (34:17):
I think that as you were saying that it reminded
me of a I remember going back to my Myspace, literally,
I this is really strange, but I remember thinking, like,
I'll go to Myspace to remember how stupid that was,
like your top friends was argued about.

S2 (34:32):
If you change it to Top Friend, you were cut off.
I always my background was always like Calvin Klein or
like dating models. Who who did I think I was phenomenal.

S1 (34:42):
But I'll actually I go back and I remember I
wrote a quote and it was just like just trying
to leave a path others would deem worthy to walk.
And I wrote it and I I've never I've never
seen it be written anywhere else. I wrote it thinking
probably at the time this was sound cool. And then
I got older and I was like, fuck, that made sense.

S2 (35:02):
Train market, train market.

S1 (35:04):
I just want to leave a path that deemed worthy
for others to walk. Yeah, that's a loot. So it's about.
I guess making making our own ways is one thing,
but actually getting through it in one piece is another,
and we get thrown so much stuff, it's hard to
kind of deflect everything and absorb the good all the time,
because sometimes in the midst of absorbing the good, you

(35:25):
absorb a little bad. And it's like, I've got to
deal with this now and find a way to navigate it.
But being at a franchise, starting from the ground up,
building it, you want to leave and then people go,
that's not how we do it. When this person was here,
this is the standard. Yeah. Every day this is the standard. Yeah.
And that's the that's the thing I hang my hat

(35:45):
on the most. And I reflect back to that little mantra.
I said it, it's just like if someone looks at
my progression and my development and my career and say
it's not about the accolades, because we all know that
once you set a goal and you actually achieve it,
that fulfillment ecstasy lasts about 30 minutes. And then after
that 30 minutes, you're in the muse again and you're like, fuck,

(36:08):
what now? Like, there's got to be something else. And
you realize that life's about kind of trying new things,
sampling new things and enjoying new things, and along the way,
navigating what was actually important along the way. Because you go,
that's really important. This bottle of water is so important.
And then you get there and you're like, oh, that's
actually not that important. Yes. And it was this thing
over here. Then you go to that and then the
next thing and then you're 31, 32 years old and

(36:29):
you're like, fuck, I'm about to retire. Like, now you're
starting to figure out now you're getting that enlightenment. And
that's where for me, it's about that path of, okay,
would someone else in my shoes, when they start to
transition into this part of their life and career, would
they kind of follow a little bit of that path
and then say, I'm going to make it my own
and figure out my own way? Yeah, I think that's

(36:49):
that's the that's the, the, the success secret for me
isn't about winning every game. It's about having the moments
that others now go, I'm inspired to do this and
it changes. They're kind of like life's navigation. Yeah, I
think you've done an incredible job of that. And I
think the way you've gone into developing yourself and I

(37:10):
know I've had a lot of conversations with Danny, and
he's spoken extremely highly of you, and I've always spoken
very highly of you, vice versa. But I think right
now you're in a place and you can talk on
this a little bit because we spoke about this last episode.
The vibrational frequency in which you operate now is completely different.
And when people talk about our vibration and energy, they go, ooh, yeah,

(37:32):
that's stupid. Well it's not, it's actually probably the most
like important aspect of my life. And I know it's
definitely the most important aspect of your life. And it's
becoming that of every single person in a high operating field,
wherever it is for sure. So can you speak about
that and how you've gotten there, what that means to

(37:54):
be on a higher frequency, to be on a higher
vibrational pattern. Yeah, yeah, really interesting mate. And it's um,
you know, I've loved the work with DK as well.
It's been it's been awesome. And I think, you know,
for mine it was just a, just an exploration period
of like, how good can life get you know, how
good can this be? How good can my days be?
You know, and because you certainly have these periods where

(38:16):
it's just like you get stuck in a, an emotion
or a thought or something that just brings you down
and you follow that rabbit hole and you create this
story in your mind that you just cannot escape, you know?
And I've had periods like that for sure, where it
just drags on for weeks and you end up in
this sluggish, lethargic, angry, just bitter sort of space. And

(38:37):
the energy that you're in is mirrored directly back to you.
So what I've certainly found is like, okay, if I
can have processes and routines and things in place to
keep myself at a really high level and just, you know,
and for me, it's like it just comes back to
that vibrational frequency if, if I'm having fun, if my

(38:58):
relationships are strong, if I'm eating good food, if I'm,
you know, putting my myself in a really healthy frame
of mind and body, then as I said, that reflects
back to you as well. So you're having deeper conversations.
You're connecting better, you're far more present, which is probably
more so. What it all comes down to as well
is just being super locked into what you're whatever you're

(39:19):
doing right now. And, um, yeah, it's been it's been
really cool. I've found like, you know, moments where something
would have made me up a bit and eat away
at me of being able to, uh, become aware of that,
accept that feeling, thought, emotion, whatever it may be, and
just let it pass on by and you sort of go, oh, well,
that was no issue. And and problems that were a

(39:41):
problem in the past are no longer much of a problem.
And I've just found like it's played a massive part
in terms of, um, you know, my footy development and
not getting so stuck in mistakes and errors and, and even,
you know, fans slandering whatever it may be. So, um, yeah,
I'm still on this journey of like, just figuring things
out and having a crackpot. Um, yeah, it's been pretty

(40:03):
cool because we never really figure it out. We don't
even get close. People go, oh, you've got it all
sorted out. I got no fucking clue. This is the
biggest misconception in the world. The age of ascent. They idolize.
We idolize people that go through the same shit we're
going through. Yeah. On a larger level, who may not
be able to. Yeah. We stand it or accept it

(40:24):
or move through it, but they just pretend like they
do and you're like, ah, once you really get to
the bottom of it, you're like, we actually don't really
know what's going on. But if we start to learn ourselves,
we focus on ourselves and we put ourselves in a
great space, as you said, well, then we can start
to heal. You know, whatever's going on and whatever comes
to you, you're not absorbing that bad. You're going, oh,

(40:45):
you know what? You're actually silly. Get out of here. Scram! Yeah,
and it feels really silly for me to do it
at times, but I literally would be like, a thought
will come in and I'm like, what are you doing
in here? And I watch it go away. And I
literally like I do it as a physical thing, like
it's it's really kind of funny. Some people will look
at me in the car or wherever and I'll be like, no,

(41:07):
you're not coming, right? I love that love weird shit.
And it's it's my cue to be like, I'm not
going to let this thought consume any part of energy.
That's not going to serve me for the greater good. Yeah.
And and it's interesting because that part that attaches to
the thought is the ego. And the ego has got
us to a position where we're playing this elite sport,
and it's now at a position where you're trying to

(41:29):
remove the energy of the ego and become your pure self.
You know, it's just it's quite an interesting journey. So yeah, yeah.

S2 (41:36):
You've obviously gone through an immense amount of experiences and the,
the growth. I feel like we've spoken about your, you know,
leadership journey for maybe teenage kids who are their leaders currently,
or maybe that they're in their early 20s and they're
in the leadership group and you know that their time
is about to come. Is there maybe a few words

(41:58):
of advice, words of wisdom that you think kids out
there could really benefit from? Yeah.

S1 (42:05):
Look, I think for me, even now, it still comes
back to the joy and tapping into the the feeling
of how you felt when you were a kid just
running around playing the game you love. You know, it's
really trying to to still harness that energy of like,
just that pure elation of going to training with your
mates and kicking the footy in the backyard and trying

(42:26):
to take hangers on your brother and things like that.
Like I'm just like, all right, just keep keep remembering
what the game is and how much fun you have
playing the game. And don't get so caught up in
the emotion of it all and the pressure and the
the atmosphere and things like that. So for mine. And
so I just have as much fun as you possibly
can and, and the rest flows off that, you know, um, and. Yeah,

(42:49):
and the rest of it is like the things that
we have been talking about, I feel like the more
you give, the more you receive. So get around your teammates,
be and be an unbelievable teammate. Um, and nothing it
also nothing just beats hard work as well. And that's
part of the fun too. There's no better feeling than
knowing that you have put in the work and you
start seeing results, you know? Yeah.

S2 (43:10):
And you can go to sleep at night. You can
rest your head easy knowing whatever happens. Yeah, I know
I was a good person. Yeah, I worked my ass off. Yeah.
And at the end of the day, whatever happens is
going to happen. But you can rest easy knowing you've
done a BC and you've given yourself 100%, no doubt.

S1 (43:26):
And that's your deathbed point. Like I, you know, I
feel like we can finish our careers and finish our
lives at the end and just go, I gave that
a bloody good crack. Whether it's a flag or not
might not get anywhere near it, but I know I
gave it a damn good nudge and tried my absolute
best to to bring myself and my teammates and the

(43:47):
club to that type of level.

S2 (43:48):
I don't know if I'm just tired from that week
road trip I had, but I feel like I'm getting
emotional because like, we're all old and getting towards the
end of our careers and I'm like, ah, I know
I was talking about acceptance before, but how I drew
that's true.

S1 (44:02):
True, everything hurts now, like all the time. I finish
the game yesterday and I got home. I got an
ice bath and I was like, far out. I'm sore. Yeah,
my hands are aching. I was like a carpal tunnel.
Like I am on my mum playing the piano for
too long. Like, what's going on? Oh, it's a classic.
But even that man like you, it's fun, it's fun,
it's fun work you just put into your body and

(44:24):
trying to stay healthy and your mental resolve and resilience.
It's just like you get to the end. You just like, man.

S2 (44:29):
But I think that's what makes us elite, because we're
a little bit nuts. Like, you got to be.

S1 (44:34):
You got to be good.

S2 (44:35):
Yeah, you absolutely love it. But I think it is
just going back through your journey. And guess what we've done?
It is so special. Like, I feel we've woken up
every day being able to do something that we love.
And you've been given the opportunity, you know, to lead
your wolfpack. That's that's something that's super special and not
everyone gets to do. I understand it's all relative. It

(44:56):
might be different in a different situation or the person
next to you, but, um, I think it's so special
what we've been able to achieve. And I think you
should be so proud of what you've been able to
do through, you know, your career and all those. Given
over the captaincy. Like you said, I don't think leadership
is a one man show. It takes a team like
it is. It is everyone, like coming together and serving

(45:20):
someone next to you. Because like you said, leadership is
all different. People respond to people differently and even though
you've given that over, you're still a leader. You roll
out of bed, you know, and that's just who you are. True.

S1 (45:32):
Yeah. No doubt. And that's it. It's just like, yeah, yeah,
it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun.
And it is just it's so rewarding seeing other guys
flourish in their leadership and that as well. So yeah,
it's been fun guys. Good work.

S4 (45:45):
It's been good indeed. Thank Skip. There you go Skip.

S1 (45:48):
Get on him. Oh good. Now this next little part
is brought to you by champion. This is our champion quote.
This is the. Which of these two champion quotes best
describes your view on leadership. So the first one is
a good leader takes a little more of the blame
and a little less of the credit. The second one
is leadership is not about being light. It is about

(46:10):
being respected even when making tough decisions. Mhm. Yeah. Like
and both. But I think the first one definitely resonates
more with me in my style of leadership. Yeah. Do
you think that at some point in time in your
career that that shifted, and when do you reckon that shifted?
Because as you spoke about before, like I want to
play and win a championship. That's what everyone wants to do.

(46:31):
You want to win a flag like I'm a Bombers supporter.
My my dad and my sister. Ah, we always go
on the boys I love. You know more cross Becky
in the in the in the square. That was the
best mark of the century. Fletch. Just punch and like
deflating balls from the fullback to the full forward. Almost. Yeah.
So I grew up in an Essendon supporter. And I
know that's something that you want more than anything in

(46:54):
this world. Yeah. But at some point in your career
it's shifted. Is that still one of the biggest things
that you would love? I know you want to take
it off, but if you don't get it. Yeah. Do
you feel like who you've become is enough to finish
the game? There would be absolutely no part of me.
And I can only say this until of the last
couple of years, probably since doing a lot of work

(47:16):
into just, you know, what we've been talking about. But
no doubt you play footy because you want to win flags. Absolutely.
But at the same time, there's no part of me
that would if I was to finish my career, there'd
be no hole left in me or no sick feeling.
If I didn't, you know, it'd be no doubt, the
best experience ever. Yeah. Unbelievable. But the parade. Imagine that

(47:37):
I'd be in the front. I'll be a I'll be
strapped to the front of the float going bananas.

S4 (47:41):
I would see you.

S2 (47:42):
For two weeks.

S1 (47:43):
Awesome beer on my head at the front. I'd be.
I'd lose it, dad. It'd be right next to me
sister as well. It'd be grass midget. But yeah, as
you say, there'll be nothing. No part of me that
would feel an inch of sadness or whatever towards that,
but absolutely would be incredible. But the point in my
career that shifted around, you know, taking more of the blame, um,

(48:03):
was probably witnessing Jobe in the way he held himself
throughout that saga and just being the front man of
it all, and all he cared about was just protecting,
protecting his teammates. And he took the brunt of everything.
And it was just, uh, an enormous show of of leadership,
of care, of empathy for his teammates and the people
that are close to him and people around him. So

(48:25):
that was just a big, just light bulb moment for me.
That's like, I got goosebumps, like when you said that
because I remember situations that I've been in and other
people have been in where they take every ounce of
the blame and you're looking at them and you're like,
this is so fucking cruel. Yeah, how the hell is
this guy coming in with a brave face every day?
Because they might be in the car. And I spoke

(48:46):
about this with back in another time, but it's like
there's days where you're in the car and you're blowing
your eyes out and you're upset and you've got to
come in and you've got to be the leader. You've
got to be the skipper, the one everyone you know,
you walk in and like, I think how we all
sit is different to other people. Like I tend to
I sit like this and I'm like, I feel like
an idiot. I got to pop my chest up a
little bit. You sit there, I feel you lat spread

(49:07):
ready for a.

S2 (49:08):
I'm not gonna lie, I'm always upright with my legs
out too.

S4 (49:11):
I know that's saying that. That's it.

S1 (49:14):
But I think that's the that's the part of leadership
that people don't always see is it's the tough times
where you walk in and you have the unwavering ability
to be your genuine self for the benefit of your team,
because that's the most important part. Yeah. Guaranteed, man. That's just. Yeah.
You just talking about that moment where you're pulling up
to the club media in the car park, following the

(49:36):
following you to the door, door stopping you for questions.
And you know, you I don't want to be that
wanker that bars them off because I know they're going
to ask the next bloke that comes in. So I'll
make sure I'm the one to answer every question that
they want and they can get on their way. And
it's like sometimes just fronting up to those scenes with
literally no tears in your eyes. We just like, fuck. Well,

(49:57):
here we go again. And he's bunkered down in the
car and righto, let's fucking go. And you get out
there and it's like a heavyweight match. Come on boys.
Yeah I remember going on AFL 361 after my 200th
and we got smoked by the Swans, and I knew
I was going into a bit of a, you know,
an absolute heated environment. I remember sitting in the car
and I just smacked like Eminem. Just like fucking pump

(50:21):
the tunes.

S4 (50:21):
Let's go. You Eminem. Yeah. It was knees.

S1 (50:27):
Weak arms.

S4 (50:27):
Yeah, yeah. Just before you better go in and get
absolutely blasted by that. Yeah.

S2 (50:33):
Mum's spaghetti all over.

S4 (50:36):
Oh yeah.

S1 (50:37):
Classy. And it's just like, yeah, you're right, you do.
And at times you got to be you of course
vulnerable in front of the boys at times. But more
often than not you got to put on a brave
face and just be that light for the guys to
feed off. And they're always looking to you to see
the dynamic and the energy of the group. So. Yeah.

S2 (50:55):
Well, Dyce, uh, thank you for being our ray of
sunshine today and your your true authentic self. Um, I
think having this chat about, you know, being a skipper
and what you've been. Who has been really eye opening
for me. I've really enjoyed it. So I want to
thank you so much for coming on our episode today. Obviously,
we want to thank champion. Without you, this episode won't

(51:16):
be possible, so make sure you guys like subscribe, share
it on your Instagram, whatever you want to do. And um, yeah,
download the performance circus with Mitch Creek and Cole.

S4 (51:27):
Thanks, guys.

S1 (51:28):
Thanks to Lost your legend. Good on you guys. Proud
of you both years and love what you're doing. Thanks
for having me on. Good stuff.

S4 (51:33):
Stuff.

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EP 2 | Dyson Heppell | Essendon Bombers Football Legend

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP 2 | Dyson Heppell | Essendon Bombers Football Legend