September 24, 2025 • 29 mins
Veteran Indianapolis newsman Jim Shella recently sat down with Indiana Senate President, Pro Tempore Rod Bray. One of the questions Shella asked Bray was about Republican plans to redraw congressional districts across the state. Bray wanted no part of the question and refused to provide an answer with any specifics. Which has our Statehouse Happenings crew questioning why the redistricting question rages on if even party leadership doesn't want any part of it? Rob Kendall and Jim Merritt explore on Statehouse Happenings.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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zero three Statehouse Happenings also wants to thank our fine
friends at Freedom Foods Indiana. Farmer Ryan Schleman and the
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and vegetables right to people's doors for years and Freedom
Foods Indiana is a big supporter of State House Happenings.
Now Freedom Foods Indiana has some big things coming. We
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near future. Right now, though, we just want to say
thanks to our friends at Freedom Foods Indiana for supporting
State House Happenings. Rob Kendall, Jim Merritt, The program of
(01:31):
State House Happening is your weekly look at what's going
on with Indiana politics and government. Before we begin the
award winning program, let's meet the well.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
The panelist, this Greag Abduel is an attorney and he's
in court.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
That's what he swear said he was. We don't know
if he actually was. Jim Merritt joins us on the
program today. You know it for thirty years in the
Indiana Senate. Jim Merritt, Hello, Robert, and we'll start with
the well. The topic that it's it's the song that
never ends. It goes on and on. My friends, it's reading.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It is, and it's taken a while, hasn't it.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
There's no way they can out the straight face say
this is good public policy based on how long it's
even taken them to get to we're going to do this.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Well, my brotherre and my former brethren in the legislature,
you'd hope that they were talking to people at church
and at the gym and at the grocery store about this.
And right now it looks like because it wasn't called immediately,
that being a special session of the India and General Assembly,
sounds like it looks like it feels like they don't.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Have the votes. Yeah, you've got. You can speak better
to this obviously than I can because you were there
for thirty years. How many special sessions did you have?
Do you remember?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I didn't keep count, but numerous rumorus yes, And in fact,
in the early nineties it was almost something on a
budget session that was going to happen because the state
was not in good school shape. Number one and two,
we had Evan By with a split legislature as a
(03:08):
Democrat Republican and we were dealing with gaming. We were
dealing with the river boats. We were gaming with a
wounded budget and and uh and we Republicans did not
want to raise taxes, and so there was a big fight.
And through the years there have been big fights about
about budgeting and but never about well, I take that back,
(03:32):
you know, as recall as you recall, we had an
anti abortion special session several years ago. So I was
after you though, yes, it was after me and uh,
and so we have had special sessions that focused on
something other than money.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, So when you guys would go into those special sessions,
and obviously it's a different ballgame now because because it's
all one party, I would assume you didn't know where
you were going to go with that, right.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Well, yes we did. We usually in the early nineties nineties,
April twenty ninth would come and we didn't have a budget,
and we would schedule it two weeks out of vans
and then you'd get a bill copy that was going
to go to committee and it'd say House Bill ten
(04:19):
oh one SS, which would be special session. And so
it would be kind of a continuation of the budget
session besides the abortion or the right to live session
in August of several years ago. We've never really had
(04:40):
a situation in the last thirty or forty years my regulation,
recognition and recollection that kind of hung around and and
it usually was that a governor was certain would call
the special session and it it would be done transparency.
(05:03):
A bill would be filed, it would be hurt in committee,
it would sit on the debt, it would do all
have all the rules of transparency, the exact opposite. Now, yes, yes,
there's there's a lot of hanging around and and uh
and and it just it strikes you that the governor
hasn't made a decision on it because it is his decision.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Well, so okay, so this brings me to the why.
And Braun came out I think it was last week
and basically stooged on himself and kind of admitted, we're
only doing this because we don't want to make Trump mad.
And that's like, and by mad, he alluded to somehow
there'd be some repercussion if they didn't do exactly what
(05:45):
Trump wanted him to do. And I looked at that
and I was like, you are the reddest of red states,
at least in terms of elected officials, not in policy,
but elected officials. Your Trump's former vice president came out
of Indiana. What what would he do? What would he do? Tess?
I mean, it just seems like a ridiculous reason to
say we're going to do this massive policy change because
(06:07):
we're scared of some guy in Washington, DC who's going
to do what.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
You know, it's interesting through the years, and this is
not something that's new. The strings attached to federal funding,
federal helping with a project is age old. But with
President Trump, it's more pronounced, it's more emphasized, and more open.
Is very much open. And also with we've never had
(06:33):
a president with this kind of personality that that is
willing to make a statement with terminating project or having
some sort of transportation project canceled. The federal government is
awesome in its power.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Wait, wait, if we don't have a special session, we
might lose the blue line. That'd be awesome, that'd be great.
What you're telling me, Jim, Well, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I don't know exactly what the federal government uh has
hanging over our heads, as as as state government. But
the governor knows and uh and and it's a big
decision for him and uh, and as well as you've
got to call it when you call it, you've got
to have the votes. And right now, right now, it's
(07:21):
in the balance because each caucus, the House of Representatives
and the and the Senate, both supermajorities, have had their caucuses,
and seemingly people are making their point when legislators are
going to the grocery store and all the places that
they have in their communities and and making their point
(07:42):
that this is not necessary.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Okay. So that brings me to Braun is not the
only person who doesn't appear to really want this. The
leadership of the House, and Senate Rod Bray, the protim
of the Senate, Todd Houston, the Speaker of the House,
they don't appear to want it either because when they
when the Vice President came what's been a couple of
months ago, now, yeah, and they walked out of that meeting,
(08:04):
those two guys looked like they had seen probably what
Scrooge looked like when he was visited by the three ghosts, right.
I mean, they looked like they didn't want any part
of this. And so this brings me to a column
written by Jim Scheller. You remember Jim Sheller, right.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
You ever get grilled by Jim Seller.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Oh, I've had my phil Yeah. He he was a
stout member of the of the of the Indiana State
media circle, if you will. And uh but he was
always very straight and very fair you.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Uh so. Jim Seller was a probably best known as
being a report for WISH TV yes for years.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Yes do you.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
We don't really have this anymore, the big person media
personalities in the State House.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
We really don't. We really don't. As I've said on
this program many times, we have a new media where
where it's it's Indiana Capitol Chronicle. Uh you and WWC
and you know, Hambert Nigel can be political and abdual
and and uh there are others that we're not there.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
We're not there ever, you're not.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
There anymore, and and so it's it is a different type.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
We just talked about it.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's outside the state House. That's where the
media is these days.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah do you do you? Uhay? I don't know. I'm
a sucker for nostalgia, but I kind of missed the
idea of Hey, there were larger than life guys walking
around that State House and their job was to hold
was to hold you guys accountable.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Indianapolis News had a calmnist by the name of Ed Zigner,
and Ed's son, actually, David is on the Indiana Utility
Regulatory Commission.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And we need to do a better job.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Ed Zigner actually was so renowned that he addressed the
legislature late in the session or no, I think it
was early in the session. And and everybody look forward
to hearing that.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
They let some guy in the media get up there
in the Yes, I love that. How do I get that?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, And it's a shame that they didn't film them
back then. But uh, a long time has gone by
where Gordon Ingleheart with Louisville Courier Journal and uh and
and all the different personalities in the in the core
of media people. Uh, it just isn't happening anymore.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Okay, So anyway, Jim Shellon now has a column for
the ib J, the Indiana Business Journal, right.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
The Indianapolis Business Journal, right, And once in a while,
maybe once or once a month, they have a section
called Forefront, and they invite people to to offer their
points of view and it's kind of an op ed
and uh, this this particular article, uh that Jim Scheller
(10:58):
wrote was about an interview that he that he had
with with prison pro temporary Rod Bray.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Okay, this is fascinating, so he you know, it's a
long piece, and he talks about how he was on
a podcast with Bray. Leaders in Legends is the name
of the podcast? You ever been on the Leaders in Legends?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
I have not, Robert Vane and it's a very good podcast,
and he has wonderful guests.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
At one so I was on with him, and at
one point I think he said I was the most
downloaded episode, or here's the top of the most downloaded episode.
Not because I'm by. He's interviewed people far more famous
than me. I'm sure, just the most controversial. But we
love Robert. He's great. And so Shelle is talking about
this interview that he did with Rod Bray, the pro
tim of the Senate, and they had insisted Bray's people, hey,
(11:50):
no questions about redistricting.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well not only that, but in the inter if you
if you read the Forefront article, he cleared the decks
before he told them that I can't let this go by,
and they talked to the Senate spokesman that was working
with Robert on this interview, and so there was knowledge
(12:14):
prior to the interview, if I'm recalling the article correctly.
And so it wasn't it wasn't a gotcha moment. No, No,
Jim doesn't do that.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
No, I don't think it any shape, form or fashion.
It was gotcha because look, you're the elected head of
the Senate, and the idea that you're not going to
answer a question about immense public importance and public policy.
It's not like he was asking him, you know, whether
or not he was what he was doing on Friday night.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
You know, let me give some contexts this whole situation
about Jim Shall as well. I was running for reelection
in two thousand and six, and I had an opponent
that was going door to door in just all the time,
and so I agreed to a debate, and I asked
Jim to be the monitor of the debate. And back then,
we had this issue about retired legislators being able to
(13:04):
buy health insurance through the state system, and no one
liked that. They felt like the retired legislators left the
Left government that they had to go out and find
their own healthcare. Well, that was a big issue back then,
and and Bob Garton, who was the protemd of the
Senate eventually lost a primary challenge to that. And and
(13:26):
so this is the general election. Bob had lost the primary.
It was a hot issue. And and I I Jim said,
Jim Shall has said, well, if I monitor this, I'm
going to ask you that question. And so uh he
cleared the decks with this, and and I answered it,
uh and as well as so he cleared the decks
here and uh and and and I feel I feel
(13:49):
for my brethren, my fellow leaders with with this issue
of redistricting. Uh, that is going on right now, that
being Todd Houston and Rod Bray.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
So Shelle again in this IBJ piece, you know, talking
about interviewing Rod Bray for this this Leaders and Legends podcast, said,
you know, he'd established that Bray was a part of
that group in Washington. He met with Vance, he met
with Trump, which good job on Sheella. Somebody had said
maybe was Adam Rin over at at Importantville. Politico had
(14:22):
said that was the first public acknowledgement that even though
everybody knew that it happened, then was the first public
acknowledgment of of Bray meeting with Trump. And so after
he has talked to him about that. He then asked
him the following question. I'll just read this. This is
fascinating to me. Me, me being Shella. Do you have
(14:46):
a position on redistricting? Bray? We have heard the ask
and we are considering it.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Me.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Do you know when a decision will be made? Bray?
We've heard the ask and we are considering it. Shella
then goes on to say his body language was more telling.
He recoiled like when he wanted to curl up in
a ball, like he wanted to curl up in a ball.
It was clear that he would repeat his cant answer
to any follow up question, So I moved on. That
is what a great get by Jim Scheller, and it
(15:15):
gives you an insight into what actually bad public policy.
This is about how the Republicans know it, about how
the leadership knows it and they really don't want any
part of it.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Well, you and I both agree that this is bad policy,
This is bad timing. And I think what we're seeing here.
And it's been reported that someone ask in a public domain,
in a public meeting, asked the speaker what he thought,
and he reportedly said, you'll have to ask the governor,
(15:48):
which is more appropriate. I feel for Senator Bray in
this regard because he is number one legislators are being
asked about this out in out in Indiana, number one.
Number two, the governor hasn't which is his responsibility, hasn't
called a special session or said that he would not.
(16:08):
And three they've had two you know, they've had caucuses.
And and uh, right now, the leaders of the General
Assembly are are smashed. They're they're they're getting it from
both sides. And uh and and I wish that Sarah
Bray had had a better answer. Uh. And And obviously, uh,
(16:31):
Todd Houston cut it off at the knees with that
reported response. And and I wish that my friend Sarah
Bray had answered it a little more succinctly. Uh and
and a little more rehearsed.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
But uh, that is a telling blow that they're in
the middle right now.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Why do you think they are unwilling to just say
enough is enough? Clearly there's not support for this. We
don't want to waste any more time on it. There's
no gain for us in terms of the General Assembly.
We're only gonna probably lose seats if we try to do.
This doesn't mean we're even gonna get the seats anyway,
And we're done here. Goodbye, Thank you, mister governor for
(17:10):
your time. Audios like they could stop it whenever they want.
Why don't they do that?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Remember Dean Smith who was the bast coach basketball coach
in North Carolina. Uh, he had what they called this
is before the shot clock. Uh, he had what it
was called four corners. They're playing the four corners right
now in the legislature, meaning they are are spending the time.
They're not wasting the time, but they're playing that. They're
(17:37):
playing the clock and they're trying to play the clock out.
And and what I would imagine is there Uh they
they have a organization day, which is which is two
weeks after the first Tuesday in in uh in November,
and and so uh they're they're really right now because
they don't have consensus, because the governor hasn't made the decision.
(17:59):
And remember this is the legislature that had to experience
Governor Holcomb's seventy executive orders during COVID, where he was
he was calling all the shots and and and you
know this governor has had his share of executive orders,
but not as focused in on something like COVID. And
(18:22):
so what this legislature is doing is they're either playing
out the clock or they're they're giving their members adequate
time to go out and have confabs with their constituents.
And so they don't have they do not have any
kind of any kind of recognition of a game plan
(18:44):
because I'm sure they're waiting on the governor.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
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zero three. Seatou's Happenings also wants to thank our fine
friends at Freedom Foods Indiana. Farmer Ryan Schliman and the
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folks at Freedom Foods Indiana have been delivering fresh fruits
and vegetables right to people's doors for years, and Freedom
Foods Indiana is a big supporter of State House Happenings. Now,
Freedom Foods Indiana has some big things coming. We can't
wait to tell you all about it in the near future.
Right now, though, we just want to say thanks to
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(20:16):
Rob Kendall, Jim Merritt, the program of State House Happenings
your weekly look at what's going on with Indiana politics
and government. Talking about this redistricting in this article, Jim
Scheller wrote in the IBJ about his conversation with Rod Bray,
the pro tem of the Senate, but he won't even
offer his own opinion on it, Like what's the harm
in saying, hey, look, I'm not for this, but I
(20:38):
understand there are some people who are. You know, I
support the conversation. I mean, like, what why I mean
when I look at someone who is one of the
arguably two or three most powerful people in our state,
Rod Bray, the pro tem of the Senate, and he
gives some mealy mouthed answer like that, tell me where
you're at on it, just because you know you're against it? Maybe, hey,
(21:01):
you know, overwhelming I'm hearing the rest of our people
are for it. So I'm gonna allow that to go
forward and then we'll see where they're Like, why are
they so afraid to even say where they're at on it?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Well? Well, Sam Bray has had a has had a time.
He he's got a caucus that is much different than
when I was there. Uh, it's there. There are a
lot of personalities. You've got, you got you have rivalries
inside the caucus. You've got all this upset You're you're
trying to herd the cats and and UH, I would
(21:34):
imagine sarir Bray if he had that interview to do
over again and we've all been there, he would say
something completely different. This is this is a gentleman who
has been to the White House, UH with with the
Speaker and with member many members of his caucus, sat
in the Oval office. UH, talk to the right Vice President,
(21:55):
came to Indiana, talked to him. They've had extreme pressure
placed on them from people in Washington for one seat,
for one congressional seat. And one thing that we haven't
that we haven't recalled yet is that this legislature in
twenty twenty one drew up congressional seats and seats for
(22:18):
their for themselves for the House of Represents the Indiana
sent that no one sued on. They were very proud
of these congressional seats and so they believe that those
congressional seats stand the test of time. And so that
is another pressure that there there. They have congressional districts
(22:39):
that are they're very proud of that make a lot
of sense on both sides of the aisle.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Okay, we've got about five minutes left in the show,
so I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about this
has happened. After we had recorded State House happenings Last
week on our Kendall and Casey program weekdays nine to
noon on WIBC, we had Aaron Sheridan on. She's a
former senior advisor to the Governor of the Lieutenant governor
rather Micah Beck with and she described in great detail
(23:04):
that she is at least one of the people who
has claimed to have seen the artificial intelligence pornography. We
don't know if there are more, but she is a
person who claims to have seen the artificial intelligence pornography
in Lieutenant Governor's office. And I thought it was a
(23:24):
fascinating interview because she said many things. She described it
in detail, how she saw it, what was going on,
et cetera. But she said two things that were very interesting.
One she claimed the guys who were sharing it, who
she says, are the guys who were cited in the
Tom Lobianco piece that kicked this whole thing off. Said
the Lieutenant governor knew about the video. And she said,
you reported it to Micah Beck with Chief of Staff
(23:48):
Sherry Ellis, and nothing was done about it. You heard
the interview, sau.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Well, well, first of all, when Jimmy Carter came to
the presidency, he brought everybody from Georgia with him and
what they called the Georgia mafia. Uh and and as
a staff and and you can see how that turned out.
He he he worked very hard. We all know that,
we know he was a nuclear scientist, but his administration
(24:12):
was so unprepared and so bad that he was a
one term president. And you know, you can talk about
the economy, you can talk about everything, but his staff
work was terrible and and and and it goes the
same with being governor. You and being lieutenant governor, you
are your staff and and there is a certain technique,
(24:35):
there's a certain elegance, there's a certain way of having
people around you that are professional, that that understand the
the importance of your office and it and when Aaron
and Aaron said, Aaron Sheridan said in the interview that
it seemed like a frat house atmosphere, it just struck
(24:56):
It strikes me that it's just a very unserious staff.
And I believe everything that Aaron says. She's a quality individual,
and why would she say something different, And so that
those interviews were I knew I'd heard, and I knew
what was going in on, but but Aaron coming across
on the airwaves on your show kind of confirmed to
(25:18):
me that it's just a very very unserious situation. And
you know, it's it's a circus atmosphere in the Lieutenant
Governor's office.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Why does nobody do anything? The legislature does They don't. Look.
I get he's elected, he being Mica beck With is elected,
so he's got his own protections, et cetera. But the
governor like goes out of his way not to say anything.
The legislature, the General Assembly, they don't say anything. Everybody
knows what this guy is. And it's not just the
alleged actions, it's the blatant dishonesty. How many lies have
(25:51):
we caught this guy in. We just caught him on
a on a more related to this, to this topic
about where he tried to claim he didn't know who
wrote the piece on Woe Woe and then he clearly
said on Hammer and Nigel, which are right. New he'd
spent a whole day with La Bianco by the time
this piece had come out. So why does anybody do anything?
About minute and a half left.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Well, I think, I think first of all, I think,
but the only person that could really have some sort
of impact on this would be the Attorney General, who
would threaten a serious study of this. The the the
legislature isn't going to do anything about it because they
really don't have any type police or enforcement. Uh.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
They might be able to have opinions on everything, they
haven't got no opinion on this.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Well, I'm certain they have opinions and and uh uh.
Some of the goofaws that have come from the Indiana
Senate Caucus about how the lieutenant governor presided this last session.
They they've they've opined, they've had meetings with him, but
there's really no enforcements. And so the enforcement is really
(26:57):
the the the convey in twenty twenty eight, should they
run for re election and it should the delegates want
to renominate the lieutenant governor. That is really what they're
pointing towards as to the enforcement of it, because they
just don't want to make a decision on this.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Well, one thing I'm going to do is renominate you
to be.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Back with us next week. Looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Jim Merritt, You're the best. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
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Speaker 2 (27:49):
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one two four four three three zero zero three. State
House Happenings also wants to thank our fine friends at
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right to people's doors for years and Freedom Foods Indiana
is a big supporter of State House Happenings. Now, Freedom
Foods Indiana has some big things coming. We can't wait
to tell you all about it in the near future.
Right now, though, we just want to say thanks to
our friends at Freedom Foods Indiana for supporting State House Happenings.
(28:51):
Rob Kendall Jim Merritt. The program at State House Happening
is your weekly look at what's going on with Indiana
politics and government. You can find Jim on Twitter at
Jim Underscore Merit at Jim Underscore Merit and Jim also
has a podcast. It's called Merit in the Morning Merit
in the Morning and you can find it by searching
for it on YouTube as well as Facebook. Me I'm
(29:11):
on Twitter at Robim Kendall at Robim Kendall and you
can hear me weekdays nine until noon weekdays nine until
noon the Kendall and Casey Show on ninety three point
one WIBC, And as always, we want to thank each
of you for tuning into State House Happenings each week.
We couldn't do it without you. Thank you as well
(29:32):
to our fabulous sponsors, daymar Services, the Honeysuckle Hill Bistro
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thanks for listening each week. That's gonna do a process
this week for Jim Merritt. I'm Rob Kendall. You've been
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Speaker 2 (00:24):
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(01:08):
folks at Freedom Foods Indiana have been delivering fresh fruits
and vegetables right to people's doors for years and Freedom
Foods Indiana is a big supporter of State House Happenings.
Now Freedom Foods Indiana has some big things coming. We
can't wait to tell you all about it in the
near future. Right now, though, we just want to say
thanks to our friends at Freedom Foods Indiana for supporting
State House Happenings. Rob Kendall, Jim Merritt, The program of
(01:31):
State House Happening is your weekly look at what's going
on with Indiana politics and government. Before we begin the
award winning program, let's meet the well.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
The panelist, this Greag Abduel is an attorney and he's
in court.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
That's what he swear said he was. We don't know
if he actually was. Jim Merritt joins us on the
program today. You know it for thirty years in the
Indiana Senate. Jim Merritt, Hello, Robert, and we'll start with
the well. The topic that it's it's the song that
never ends. It goes on and on. My friends, it's reading.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It is, and it's taken a while, hasn't it.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
There's no way they can out the straight face say
this is good public policy based on how long it's
even taken them to get to we're going to do this.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Well, my brotherre and my former brethren in the legislature,
you'd hope that they were talking to people at church
and at the gym and at the grocery store about this.
And right now it looks like because it wasn't called immediately,
that being a special session of the India and General Assembly,
sounds like it looks like it feels like they don't.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Have the votes. Yeah, you've got. You can speak better
to this obviously than I can because you were there
for thirty years. How many special sessions did you have?
Do you remember?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I didn't keep count, but numerous rumorus yes, And in fact,
in the early nineties it was almost something on a
budget session that was going to happen because the state
was not in good school shape. Number one and two,
we had Evan By with a split legislature as a
(03:08):
Democrat Republican and we were dealing with gaming. We were
dealing with the river boats. We were gaming with a
wounded budget and and uh and we Republicans did not
want to raise taxes, and so there was a big fight.
And through the years there have been big fights about
about budgeting and but never about well, I take that back,
(03:32):
you know, as recall as you recall, we had an
anti abortion special session several years ago. So I was
after you though, yes, it was after me and uh,
and so we have had special sessions that focused on
something other than money.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, So when you guys would go into those special sessions,
and obviously it's a different ballgame now because because it's
all one party, I would assume you didn't know where
you were going to go with that, right.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Well, yes we did. We usually in the early nineties nineties,
April twenty ninth would come and we didn't have a budget,
and we would schedule it two weeks out of vans
and then you'd get a bill copy that was going
to go to committee and it'd say House Bill ten
(04:19):
oh one SS, which would be special session. And so
it would be kind of a continuation of the budget
session besides the abortion or the right to live session
in August of several years ago. We've never really had
(04:40):
a situation in the last thirty or forty years my regulation,
recognition and recollection that kind of hung around and and
it usually was that a governor was certain would call
the special session and it it would be done transparency.
(05:03):
A bill would be filed, it would be hurt in committee,
it would sit on the debt, it would do all
have all the rules of transparency, the exact opposite. Now, yes, yes,
there's there's a lot of hanging around and and uh
and and it just it strikes you that the governor
hasn't made a decision on it because it is his decision.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Well, so okay, so this brings me to the why.
And Braun came out I think it was last week
and basically stooged on himself and kind of admitted, we're
only doing this because we don't want to make Trump mad.
And that's like, and by mad, he alluded to somehow
there'd be some repercussion if they didn't do exactly what
(05:45):
Trump wanted him to do. And I looked at that
and I was like, you are the reddest of red states,
at least in terms of elected officials, not in policy,
but elected officials. Your Trump's former vice president came out
of Indiana. What what would he do? What would he do? Tess?
I mean, it just seems like a ridiculous reason to
say we're going to do this massive policy change because
(06:07):
we're scared of some guy in Washington, DC who's going
to do what.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
You know, it's interesting through the years, and this is
not something that's new. The strings attached to federal funding,
federal helping with a project is age old. But with
President Trump, it's more pronounced, it's more emphasized, and more open.
Is very much open. And also with we've never had
(06:33):
a president with this kind of personality that that is
willing to make a statement with terminating project or having
some sort of transportation project canceled. The federal government is
awesome in its power.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Wait, wait, if we don't have a special session, we
might lose the blue line. That'd be awesome, that'd be great.
What you're telling me, Jim, Well, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I don't know exactly what the federal government uh has
hanging over our heads, as as as state government. But
the governor knows and uh and and it's a big
decision for him and uh, and as well as you've
got to call it when you call it, you've got
to have the votes. And right now, right now, it's
(07:21):
in the balance because each caucus, the House of Representatives
and the and the Senate, both supermajorities, have had their caucuses,
and seemingly people are making their point when legislators are
going to the grocery store and all the places that
they have in their communities and and making their point
(07:42):
that this is not necessary.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Okay. So that brings me to Braun is not the
only person who doesn't appear to really want this. The
leadership of the House, and Senate Rod Bray, the protim
of the Senate, Todd Houston, the Speaker of the House,
they don't appear to want it either because when they
when the Vice President came what's been a couple of
months ago, now, yeah, and they walked out of that meeting,
(08:04):
those two guys looked like they had seen probably what
Scrooge looked like when he was visited by the three ghosts, right.
I mean, they looked like they didn't want any part
of this. And so this brings me to a column
written by Jim Scheller. You remember Jim Sheller, right.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
You ever get grilled by Jim Seller.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Oh, I've had my phil Yeah. He he was a
stout member of the of the of the Indiana State
media circle, if you will. And uh but he was
always very straight and very fair you.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Uh so. Jim Seller was a probably best known as
being a report for WISH TV yes for years.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Yes do you.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
We don't really have this anymore, the big person media
personalities in the State House.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
We really don't. We really don't. As I've said on
this program many times, we have a new media where
where it's it's Indiana Capitol Chronicle. Uh you and WWC
and you know, Hambert Nigel can be political and abdual
and and uh there are others that we're not there.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
We're not there ever, you're not.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
There anymore, and and so it's it is a different type.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
We just talked about it.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's outside the state House. That's where the
media is these days.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah do you do you? Uhay? I don't know. I'm
a sucker for nostalgia, but I kind of missed the
idea of Hey, there were larger than life guys walking
around that State House and their job was to hold
was to hold you guys accountable.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Indianapolis News had a calmnist by the name of Ed Zigner,
and Ed's son, actually, David is on the Indiana Utility
Regulatory Commission.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And we need to do a better job.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Ed Zigner actually was so renowned that he addressed the
legislature late in the session or no, I think it
was early in the session. And and everybody look forward
to hearing that.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
They let some guy in the media get up there
in the Yes, I love that. How do I get that?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, And it's a shame that they didn't film them
back then. But uh, a long time has gone by
where Gordon Ingleheart with Louisville Courier Journal and uh and
and all the different personalities in the in the core
of media people. Uh, it just isn't happening anymore.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Okay, So anyway, Jim Shellon now has a column for
the ib J, the Indiana Business Journal, right.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
The Indianapolis Business Journal, right, And once in a while,
maybe once or once a month, they have a section
called Forefront, and they invite people to to offer their
points of view and it's kind of an op ed
and uh, this this particular article, uh that Jim Scheller
(10:58):
wrote was about an interview that he that he had
with with prison pro temporary Rod Bray.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Okay, this is fascinating, so he you know, it's a
long piece, and he talks about how he was on
a podcast with Bray. Leaders in Legends is the name
of the podcast? You ever been on the Leaders in Legends?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
I have not, Robert Vane and it's a very good podcast,
and he has wonderful guests.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
At one so I was on with him, and at
one point I think he said I was the most
downloaded episode, or here's the top of the most downloaded episode.
Not because I'm by. He's interviewed people far more famous
than me. I'm sure, just the most controversial. But we
love Robert. He's great. And so Shelle is talking about
this interview that he did with Rod Bray, the pro
tim of the Senate, and they had insisted Bray's people, hey,
(11:50):
no questions about redistricting.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well not only that, but in the inter if you
if you read the Forefront article, he cleared the decks
before he told them that I can't let this go by,
and they talked to the Senate spokesman that was working
with Robert on this interview, and so there was knowledge
(12:14):
prior to the interview, if I'm recalling the article correctly.
And so it wasn't it wasn't a gotcha moment. No, No,
Jim doesn't do that.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
No, I don't think it any shape, form or fashion.
It was gotcha because look, you're the elected head of
the Senate, and the idea that you're not going to
answer a question about immense public importance and public policy.
It's not like he was asking him, you know, whether
or not he was what he was doing on Friday night.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
You know, let me give some contexts this whole situation
about Jim Shall as well. I was running for reelection
in two thousand and six, and I had an opponent
that was going door to door in just all the time,
and so I agreed to a debate, and I asked
Jim to be the monitor of the debate. And back then,
we had this issue about retired legislators being able to
(13:04):
buy health insurance through the state system, and no one
liked that. They felt like the retired legislators left the
Left government that they had to go out and find
their own healthcare. Well, that was a big issue back then,
and and Bob Garton, who was the protemd of the
Senate eventually lost a primary challenge to that. And and
(13:26):
so this is the general election. Bob had lost the primary.
It was a hot issue. And and I I Jim said,
Jim Shall has said, well, if I monitor this, I'm
going to ask you that question. And so uh he
cleared the decks with this, and and I answered it,
uh and as well as so he cleared the decks
here and uh and and and I feel I feel
(13:49):
for my brethren, my fellow leaders with with this issue
of redistricting. Uh, that is going on right now, that
being Todd Houston and Rod Bray.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
So Shelle again in this IBJ piece, you know, talking
about interviewing Rod Bray for this this Leaders and Legends podcast, said,
you know, he'd established that Bray was a part of
that group in Washington. He met with Vance, he met
with Trump, which good job on Sheella. Somebody had said
maybe was Adam Rin over at at Importantville. Politico had
(14:22):
said that was the first public acknowledgement that even though
everybody knew that it happened, then was the first public
acknowledgment of of Bray meeting with Trump. And so after
he has talked to him about that. He then asked
him the following question. I'll just read this. This is
fascinating to me. Me, me being Shella. Do you have
(14:46):
a position on redistricting? Bray? We have heard the ask
and we are considering it.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Me.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Do you know when a decision will be made? Bray?
We've heard the ask and we are considering it. Shella
then goes on to say his body language was more telling.
He recoiled like when he wanted to curl up in
a ball, like he wanted to curl up in a ball.
It was clear that he would repeat his cant answer
to any follow up question, So I moved on. That
is what a great get by Jim Scheller, and it
(15:15):
gives you an insight into what actually bad public policy.
This is about how the Republicans know it, about how
the leadership knows it and they really don't want any
part of it.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Well, you and I both agree that this is bad policy,
This is bad timing. And I think what we're seeing here.
And it's been reported that someone ask in a public domain,
in a public meeting, asked the speaker what he thought,
and he reportedly said, you'll have to ask the governor,
(15:48):
which is more appropriate. I feel for Senator Bray in
this regard because he is number one legislators are being
asked about this out in out in Indiana, number one.
Number two, the governor hasn't which is his responsibility, hasn't
called a special session or said that he would not.
(16:08):
And three they've had two you know, they've had caucuses.
And and uh, right now, the leaders of the General
Assembly are are smashed. They're they're they're getting it from
both sides. And uh and and I wish that Sarah
Bray had had a better answer. Uh. And And obviously, uh,
(16:31):
Todd Houston cut it off at the knees with that
reported response. And and I wish that my friend Sarah
Bray had answered it a little more succinctly. Uh and
and a little more rehearsed.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
But uh, that is a telling blow that they're in
the middle right now.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Why do you think they are unwilling to just say
enough is enough? Clearly there's not support for this. We
don't want to waste any more time on it. There's
no gain for us in terms of the General Assembly.
We're only gonna probably lose seats if we try to do.
This doesn't mean we're even gonna get the seats anyway,
And we're done here. Goodbye, Thank you, mister governor for
(17:10):
your time. Audios like they could stop it whenever they want.
Why don't they do that?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Remember Dean Smith who was the bast coach basketball coach
in North Carolina. Uh, he had what they called this
is before the shot clock. Uh, he had what it
was called four corners. They're playing the four corners right
now in the legislature, meaning they are are spending the time.
They're not wasting the time, but they're playing that. They're
(17:37):
playing the clock and they're trying to play the clock out.
And and what I would imagine is there Uh they
they have a organization day, which is which is two
weeks after the first Tuesday in in uh in November,
and and so uh they're they're really right now because
they don't have consensus, because the governor hasn't made the decision.
(17:59):
And remember this is the legislature that had to experience
Governor Holcomb's seventy executive orders during COVID, where he was
he was calling all the shots and and and you
know this governor has had his share of executive orders,
but not as focused in on something like COVID. And
(18:22):
so what this legislature is doing is they're either playing
out the clock or they're they're giving their members adequate
time to go out and have confabs with their constituents.
And so they don't have they do not have any
kind of any kind of recognition of a game plan
(18:44):
because I'm sure they're waiting on the governor.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
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friends at Freedom Foods Indiana. Farmer Ryan Schliman and the
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folks at Freedom Foods Indiana have been delivering fresh fruits
and vegetables right to people's doors for years, and Freedom
Foods Indiana is a big supporter of State House Happenings. Now,
Freedom Foods Indiana has some big things coming. We can't
wait to tell you all about it in the near future.
Right now, though, we just want to say thanks to
our friends at Freedom Foods Indiana for supporting State House Happenings.
(20:16):
Rob Kendall, Jim Merritt, the program of State House Happenings
your weekly look at what's going on with Indiana politics
and government. Talking about this redistricting in this article, Jim
Scheller wrote in the IBJ about his conversation with Rod Bray,
the pro tem of the Senate, but he won't even
offer his own opinion on it, Like what's the harm
in saying, hey, look, I'm not for this, but I
(20:38):
understand there are some people who are. You know, I
support the conversation. I mean, like, what why I mean
when I look at someone who is one of the
arguably two or three most powerful people in our state,
Rod Bray, the pro tem of the Senate, and he
gives some mealy mouthed answer like that, tell me where
you're at on it, just because you know you're against it? Maybe, hey,
(21:01):
you know, overwhelming I'm hearing the rest of our people
are for it. So I'm gonna allow that to go
forward and then we'll see where they're Like, why are
they so afraid to even say where they're at on it?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Well? Well, Sam Bray has had a has had a time.
He he's got a caucus that is much different than
when I was there. Uh, it's there. There are a
lot of personalities. You've got, you got you have rivalries
inside the caucus. You've got all this upset You're you're
trying to herd the cats and and UH, I would
(21:34):
imagine sarir Bray if he had that interview to do
over again and we've all been there, he would say
something completely different. This is this is a gentleman who
has been to the White House, UH with with the
Speaker and with member many members of his caucus, sat
in the Oval office. UH, talk to the right Vice President,
(21:55):
came to Indiana, talked to him. They've had extreme pressure
placed on them from people in Washington for one seat,
for one congressional seat. And one thing that we haven't
that we haven't recalled yet is that this legislature in
twenty twenty one drew up congressional seats and seats for
(22:18):
their for themselves for the House of Represents the Indiana
sent that no one sued on. They were very proud
of these congressional seats and so they believe that those
congressional seats stand the test of time. And so that
is another pressure that there there. They have congressional districts
(22:39):
that are they're very proud of that make a lot
of sense on both sides of the aisle.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Okay, we've got about five minutes left in the show,
so I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about this
has happened. After we had recorded State House happenings Last
week on our Kendall and Casey program weekdays nine to
noon on WIBC, we had Aaron Sheridan on. She's a
former senior advisor to the Governor of the Lieutenant governor
rather Micah Beck with and she described in great detail
(23:04):
that she is at least one of the people who
has claimed to have seen the artificial intelligence pornography. We
don't know if there are more, but she is a
person who claims to have seen the artificial intelligence pornography
in Lieutenant Governor's office. And I thought it was a
(23:24):
fascinating interview because she said many things. She described it
in detail, how she saw it, what was going on,
et cetera. But she said two things that were very interesting.
One she claimed the guys who were sharing it, who
she says, are the guys who were cited in the
Tom Lobianco piece that kicked this whole thing off. Said
the Lieutenant governor knew about the video. And she said,
you reported it to Micah Beck with Chief of Staff
(23:48):
Sherry Ellis, and nothing was done about it. You heard
the interview, sau.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Well, well, first of all, when Jimmy Carter came to
the presidency, he brought everybody from Georgia with him and
what they called the Georgia mafia. Uh and and as
a staff and and you can see how that turned out.
He he he worked very hard. We all know that,
we know he was a nuclear scientist, but his administration
(24:12):
was so unprepared and so bad that he was a
one term president. And you know, you can talk about
the economy, you can talk about everything, but his staff
work was terrible and and and and it goes the
same with being governor. You and being lieutenant governor, you
are your staff and and there is a certain technique,
(24:35):
there's a certain elegance, there's a certain way of having
people around you that are professional, that that understand the
the importance of your office and it and when Aaron
and Aaron said, Aaron Sheridan said in the interview that
it seemed like a frat house atmosphere, it just struck
(24:56):
It strikes me that it's just a very unserious staff.
And I believe everything that Aaron says. She's a quality individual,
and why would she say something different, And so that
those interviews were I knew I'd heard, and I knew
what was going in on, but but Aaron coming across
on the airwaves on your show kind of confirmed to
(25:18):
me that it's just a very very unserious situation. And
you know, it's it's a circus atmosphere in the Lieutenant
Governor's office.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Why does nobody do anything? The legislature does They don't. Look.
I get he's elected, he being Mica beck With is elected,
so he's got his own protections, et cetera. But the
governor like goes out of his way not to say anything.
The legislature, the General Assembly, they don't say anything. Everybody
knows what this guy is. And it's not just the
alleged actions, it's the blatant dishonesty. How many lies have
(25:51):
we caught this guy in. We just caught him on
a on a more related to this, to this topic
about where he tried to claim he didn't know who
wrote the piece on Woe Woe and then he clearly
said on Hammer and Nigel, which are right. New he'd
spent a whole day with La Bianco by the time
this piece had come out. So why does anybody do anything?
About minute and a half left.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Well, I think, I think first of all, I think,
but the only person that could really have some sort
of impact on this would be the Attorney General, who
would threaten a serious study of this. The the the
legislature isn't going to do anything about it because they
really don't have any type police or enforcement. Uh.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
They might be able to have opinions on everything, they
haven't got no opinion on this.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Well, I'm certain they have opinions and and uh uh.
Some of the goofaws that have come from the Indiana
Senate Caucus about how the lieutenant governor presided this last session.
They they've they've opined, they've had meetings with him, but
there's really no enforcements. And so the enforcement is really
(26:57):
the the the convey in twenty twenty eight, should they
run for re election and it should the delegates want
to renominate the lieutenant governor. That is really what they're
pointing towards as to the enforcement of it, because they
just don't want to make a decision on this.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Well, one thing I'm going to do is renominate you
to be.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Back with us next week. Looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Jim Merritt, You're the best. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I'm doctor Jim Dalton, President and CEO of Daymar. Daymar
is a critical resource for thousands of people in Central Indiana,
and it takes people like you to give them hope.
With over thirteen hundred employees and hundreds of volunteers, Daymar
is always looking for people to come aboard. Whether it's
a career or simply donating your time. There's a place
for you here at Daymar. Learn more about our mission
(27:48):
at daymark dot org.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
At the Honeysuckle Hill be strone Cottage located off I
seventy and Beautiful Brazil, less than an hour from downtown Indianapolis,
their specialty is Hoo's your comfort food like Grandma used
to make, and just like Grandma's house, their goal is
for you to leave more at peace than when you
came in. The Honeysuckle Hill bestro In Cottage feature some
of the best made from scratch food in the state,
(28:09):
and their chicken and pork is raised right here in Indiana.
The Honeysuckle Hill bestro In Cottage is open five to
eight Friday and Saturday and Sunday, featuring their incredible breakfast
buffet from eleven to two for more information call eight
one two four four three three zero zero three. State
House Happenings also wants to thank our fine friends at
Freedom Foods Indiana. Farmer Ryan Schliman and the folks at
(28:31):
Freedom Foods Indiana have been delivering fresh fruits and vegetables
right to people's doors for years and Freedom Foods Indiana
is a big supporter of State House Happenings. Now, Freedom
Foods Indiana has some big things coming. We can't wait
to tell you all about it in the near future.
Right now, though, we just want to say thanks to
our friends at Freedom Foods Indiana for supporting State House Happenings.
(28:51):
Rob Kendall Jim Merritt. The program at State House Happening
is your weekly look at what's going on with Indiana
politics and government. You can find Jim on Twitter at
Jim Underscore Merit at Jim Underscore Merit and Jim also
has a podcast. It's called Merit in the Morning Merit
in the Morning and you can find it by searching
for it on YouTube as well as Facebook. Me I'm
(29:11):
on Twitter at Robim Kendall at Robim Kendall and you
can hear me weekdays nine until noon weekdays nine until
noon the Kendall and Casey Show on ninety three point
one WIBC, And as always, we want to thank each
of you for tuning into State House Happenings each week.
We couldn't do it without you. Thank you as well
(29:32):
to our fabulous sponsors, daymar Services, the Honeysuckle Hill Bistro
and Freedom Foods Indiana. And like we said, without you,
there is no US. So from the bottom of our hearts,
thanks for listening each week. That's gonna do a process
this week for Jim Merritt. I'm Rob Kendall. You've been
listening to State House Happenings.
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