February 14, 2025 • 31 mins
Marco Panichi, fitness coach of two-time Australian Open champion Jannik Sinner, speaks with Daniela Hantuchova from The Real DNA Podcast about the secrets of the world No.1's elite physical conditioning, and how the demands on the modern player have changed the methodology of fitness coaching.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Well, Marco, thank you so much for your time, because
these days you are one of the busiest people in
the house taking.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Care obviously of the number one in the world.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Jan Nick Sinner, So thank you so much for coming
here to our podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
My big pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You know, I have prepared a lot of questions, but
I have a feeling this is going to be going
so off road and off script. And it's funny for
me because it's the first time you actually see me working.
We never yes, I've seen all your work that you've
done all these years, but never never the other way around.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
So exactly I was expecting actually with the racket, to
see you with the racket and jumping like you were
used to do it before.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You know, we're getting also time times are changing anyways,
just just quickly on the tournament. What is one of
the biggest challenges from the physical side.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Well, you know, I would change a little bit of
the schedule and planning of the of the tour. Let's
say we arrive actually now here in Australia and my player,
for example, he played the Davis Cup finals, so which
means we had a really short short time considering also
he needs to he needed to rest a little bit,
(01:20):
of course. And so before, for example, we had almost
between six eight weeks of precision, do you remember this,
So we had time to you know, to work a lot,
to make a little you say, a large spectrum of
everything and this maybe can help you to recover well,
(01:41):
to make you say, an improvement I mean of some
qualities or whatever it is. And now basically we have
three weeks.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
What do you do.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
No, that's why it's very important, I mean, as you
as you know, as you know that for sure, and
the team is always traveling now much much more than before.
And the new professional figures are part of the team
which is now constantly all the team. Every player has
also over them provisio or stay opath and all these people.
That because we need to try to fix it really
(02:17):
and to change some things in really short time. So
in order to do this, and because the schedule is
very busy all the year, we need to try to
find out two or three let's say weeks during the year,
or more than one or two weeks in order to
(02:39):
come back and train in again before the next two
mench So it's very important how to plan the in
the beginning of the years. Then of course, it depends
if your player are we need more or less, So
this make huge difference. Let's say it's more important now
to see and know very very well your player more
(03:00):
than the you know how to say, how to make
some work, specific work that can be absolutely very quick
in quick quick way to get digested by your player
in order to perform maybe I mean two days and
three days. You know, before we had a little bit
more time to schedule a normal work. Now it's more
(03:23):
reactive everything, so you have to be very you know,
you have to know very very well your player and
how we react on some input that you give to him.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So basically now the reason why the players are traveling.
But let's say with bigger teams is that you actually
do most of the work on the road.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Absolutely absolutely, this is the big change in that we had.
I mean me personally, I mean and thirty years more
than thirty years. Yeah, So if I remember what I
was doing, you know, I was the programmation, let's say,
the planning. Back then, I mean it was just you know,
we go to play and then come back and stay
(04:03):
one place, one base, even though if we keep traveling,
we had time to stay somewhere to practice a little
bit more. Now, I mean I would say that I'm
pretty likely that my player are winning a little bit
more So, the time is very short and you need
all these people around you doctor most of the time.
Also because I mean, we need to always calibrate. For example,
(04:24):
I don't know, supplementation of the players. But then it's
got sciences is much more helping us, much much more.
You know, when we are together, we were working together.
I mean, I don't know, I'm thinking about some No,
(04:46):
I mean we could now for example, we we can
absolutely check, for example, the internal a lot of the player.
We have so many tools that help us, so we
know exactly exactly how the player is reacting, you know,
in what we are doing. So the external lot is
(05:09):
easy because it's the job that we are putting on him.
But the internal load, which depending for example, from an
emotional state, depending from so many things, that's very important
to understand how much they are stressed, for example, So
you can calibrate the external lot based on the internal lot,
and this may all be more easy to make less
(05:30):
mistake from us.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
For example, So would you say, because one of the
things I did want to discuss quite a bit. Is
how much the training has changed since you first joined
the thirty years or more than thirty years ago to
what you do now. So would you say one of
one of the biggest differences is that now you have
the tools to.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Exactly measure and get the feedback on.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Everything you do. Yeah, for example, author right variability?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
For example, I didn't even get that.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Okay, in order don't get too much into it, maybe
be bored. But then I thought I.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Was kind of up to dated with the business. You
know how much I love training and the nutritions.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But obviously not.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, I mean we have now some tools that are
able to exactly calculate the distance of every bit of
the heart. So country how much we think the bit
are not the same in the same time. For example,
if you have sixty bit perminos, doesn't mean it doesn't
mean that every second you have a bit. Sometimes it
(06:31):
will be more than one second, sometimes it will be
less and actually more. That is this variability more our
system is saying the I don't know. For example, so
we have we have the sympathetic system, but a sympathetic system,
I'm talking about nervous system that we know that when
they are working well together, we are rest and we
(06:53):
can activate in a good way. So we are repairing tissue.
We are ready to fight. Okay, So this is, for example,
one of the parameters that the art right ability can check.
So so many things that help us. You know, before
there was in Italy we say okiomet which means the
meters of the highs, which how much you can see
(07:15):
how your player is tired or not. Now we have
also data that helps us a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Well, it's something I always wanted to ask you and
I never did you kind of thanks to Thanks to you,
the tennis changes big time as far as where the
fitness goes, the training goes. Because of your expertise and
your knowledge, where do you go for your resource? Because
you're the one making players better, making them motivated, But
(07:40):
where do you get the motivation from?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And where do.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You I mean I mean simple like when you were playing.
I mean it's the passion that you want to make
you less mistake. You want to perform your player better possible.
So you need to be always a little bit curious.
Let's say, experimentally everything and see what can be useful
for your player, for players in general, for your playings,
(08:04):
in particular, you know, so there are so many things
that help us. Actually, I take advantage of this, tookit
that we have to get to apologize with you because
when we were working together so basically, I didn't have
this possibility to work maybe a little bit more deeply
with you. How Daniella was was let's say, Buddy wise
(08:26):
ready something like that, you know. I mean, again, all
these signs help us a lot.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I was actually going to ask you with everything. You know, now,
let's say it was what two thousand and six, two
thousand and seven that we work together, what would you
have done different?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Also many things that really yeah, sure, I mean that's
again because you you know I always say that we
as me as a fitness coach or tennis coach or
whatever it is, and we need to just throw the
suit on top of the player, you know. I mean
that's very important. I mean, every player is different. I'm
not talking about leverage or I'm talking about also emotionally
(09:08):
all these things. So more we know the player more,
we can yeah, suit the perfect suit for for the player.
You know that that's the goal for for for let's say,
all the sports basically, So this is and the more informasure,
you can get through all these things again. More you
(09:33):
you are targeting what you're doing, you are not losing
maybe time, you're you're the possibility to make your player,
for example, to avoid all the injury possible. Now, for example,
I mean, I'm thinking about this fascia. Maybe you heard
about that. So it's this tissue that is all inside
our body, you know, of course, yeah, that's it. So
(09:55):
before when I was studying, when I was working the
first year, I mean, fascia was a kind of an
envelope around the muscle and around the tissue. We didn't
know what what actually was. Now with the new signs,
for example, we saw that the fashion is very is
one of the probably the most important thing that allowed
the body to move smoothly perfectly, you know. So because
(10:16):
it's kind of a net that is all around our body,
all around our bones, muscle, tendons and everything. Plus is
full of this let's say, little transistor that can send
absolutely every second information to our brain. So and more
you are able to use this fashion, and now it's
(10:38):
possible to train this fashion. We know how to train
the fashion. More the movement is clear, more accuracy, you know,
and more the bodies moving.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Well, so you're saying we actually can train instead of
the muscles the fascia.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yes, absolutely, yes, absolutely, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
So pretty much we would have done everything differently.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
No, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I think it's like this with everything. The more you know,
the more you try to come up with new exercises.
But there are always the bread and butter ones, right
for sure. So what is for you, like the golden
one that you have to make sure all your players
do I think I know the answer.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
But is it the squad?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Well, yes for someone, yes, for some other not for
example my last two players, for example, I didn't use
the squad that much really for example. Yeah, then you know,
depends women, men, depends what kind of player you are,
how much is your body type? You know, there are
so many things to consider when you do something like that.
Tennis is requiring certain you know, effort, physiological effort, require
(11:50):
a lot of coordination in there and intramuscular. So the
goal that we that anyway we need to let's say
per it is what can help players to play tennis
and no soccer or basketball. So that's that's the main
goal me personally. As soon I see which kind of
(12:14):
player I'm working with, I try to address what is
at limned. The last two players again that work they
were They are pretty similar as a body type. So
I'm extremely flexible, extremely elastic, let's say, oriented, fascia oriented,
I would, I would underline. And so what we are
(12:36):
doing is particularly to try to increase Okay, the strength,
that's perfect, but how you use the strength, how you
are able to connect all the segments of the body
with the good connection, with good timing, with good coordination,
in order to be very accuracy, and you can last
(12:58):
longer because you are spending very few energy because you're
moving perfectly. Let's say, so all the balance, all the
exercise that actually so we were doing, are all part
of this big cake to do in order to perform
a court.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Let's just not forget to mention that the last two
players we are talking about, it's Novaki, So just quickly
on on them, especially being to Novak for so many years,
and let's say, I think you agree one of the
greatest athletes in the history of not only tennis, but in.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Sports in general.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Is there something obviously you had so much to give
to him. Is there something you actually learned from him?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Absolutely? But I learned from everybody. I mean, of course
from absolutely. That's that's guaranteed, particularly with Nova coming, is
his mentality towards the work coming this this big guy,
not only him, but I have the lack of to do,
you know, to have the possibility to leave a little
(14:03):
bit of this big four and now this new upcoming
great player like you or Leanaw whatever it is. And
the common let's say, point of all of you, it's
how whatever you do can help you as a tennis player.
You know that that was actually and you keep learning
(14:27):
me as a part of the stuff. You keep learning
from you. How everything is related, I mean, how you
are you I don't know. Also something very far from tennis.
I mean if it was reading a book, whatever he
was reading, he could bring it on court. So you
(14:48):
always find the connection between whatever he's doing to the court,
what can improve him as a person, as an athlete,
as a whatever I mean father for example, I mean
can be related on court. So we always say that
athlete is connected with the persons of body. Mind is
working and one unit it is always working together. So
(15:13):
that's your common point.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Would you say stubbornness as well?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Absolutely, I mean obsession, but I want to just be
clear when I say stubborn and obsession, I mean the
functional stubborn and functional obsession in what you do brings
you in another level for sure, So not the one
that goes to the pathology, of course, So that's very important.
But then somebody can call passion, somebody can call it
(15:40):
you know, whatever it is, but love what you do.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Where do you draw that line though, between being stubborn
in a way that it helps you as an athlete
and to a point where you actually let it go
and be open and receive the feedback from the team.
Was it Was it easy, let's say, with Novak, to
kind of receive your information and what you were trying
to Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I think the line, the borderline between yeah, functional, non functional,
stubborn or whatever it is, is the fact that you
anyway are open to listen. Okay, you want to arrive
to the point, but you are ready to give and
receive feedback. So to give a receive feedback is kind
(16:23):
of an art because I mean, there are so many
ways you can communicate a feedback or receive a feedback
that can change completely the meaning of what you're saying.
And that's also is another I think plus that as
as a team we need to master a little bit.
I mean the communication, the effective communication, you know, have
(16:46):
to be sometimes you need to be straight. Sometimes you
can arrive and you to understand to send some message
to the player that you don't feel are you say,
for example, that's happened to me most of the time,
and what player you're working with, of course, But sometimes
I don't say, look what you're doing is not right.
I could say, because this could be taken by the
(17:09):
player like no, I'm trying to do it. Why you
say that it's not right. I can say, look what
you're doing or how you are behaving make me feel
that this is something like that, so they cannot questioning
how I'm feeling, you know. So it's something just not
because I want to be right or wrong, but I
want to create the real communication and efficiency communication, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And I think sometimes I think of a different cultural
background that maybe be underestimated. Sometimes to a player from
let's say Eastern Europe, maybe you can be much more straightforward,
where to someone from another country you have to kind
of find a way how to go about it. And
I believe it's always kind of a working process to
(17:56):
always see where the where the limits are and how
to them and how.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
To accept right and also a difference age when you grow.
You know there is also a change in the communication.
You know, so many factors that can but of course
there are some little knowledge tools you can call whatever
you want, but you had to habitally if you want to,
(18:21):
because I mean communication in the hand it's very important
more than jump heat or something like that at a
certain level.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Of course, would you say you had to approach female
athletes differently than than guys.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
No, I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say there's difference
between men and women. There is different between persons, whatever
they are, men or women. You know, the background, like
you said that, the character that they have, this determinate
what kind of person you are. So we have the
dew we need to understand we have in front of us.
(19:01):
Because if the main goal is to be able to
trust meth some things to be useful for the player,
we need to know also how to tell them. Because
you can be the best coach in the world and
the best player in the world. You are not fitting
together for some reason.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
You know, one question that I think so many of.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
My group will appreciate to know a little bit more,
whether it's Lindsay Won Andrekovich, who I just finished playing
doubles with.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
How do you train a retired athlete?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Because I think that is not an easy thing to
do because obviously we come to the gym already with
some kind of experience, expectations, And how do you find
the balance between not pushing us too much, obviously because
everybodies have been through a lot, but also not giving
us like a forty five minute yoga session and thinking
that's going to be okay. I think it's one of
(19:53):
the most tricky jobs to have.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Well, I would say that guys listen regardless regarding what
we were saying before we were saying before. I mean,
the fascia is one of the most let's say, tricky
part of our body. Because if you don't keep moving
on the on the right way between this layer of
(20:19):
fashion that is kind of college and collage and let's
say this this fluid that if you are able to
keep this fluid very no sticky, you know, but very
very smooth, the movement is smooth, which means you are
not creating some resistance in some part of your body,
but all the body is moving fluently. Let's say, so
(20:41):
for our age, which is my age for fortum plus,
it's very important to keep moving in the right way,
be careful what you're doing. Of course, don't do crazy
stuff like jumping with you know, from the trampolina. But
I mean do a lot of exercise of mobility and
strength with just keeping in mind to using this kind
(21:04):
of you know, keeping moving the body all together. So
I mean isolation exercise for example, could be good for
some time, but not the main goal for people that
so for summer, yeah, it's okay for the for the
to keep judges tests a little bit more more, let's
say into the limit. But I would say three dimensional
(21:28):
movement for example, that that make the body work on
these three different planes that we have, which is frontal,
you know, digital, you know this plane, you know. Okay,
let's say make it easy. I mean it's just moving
all the body with some resistance with bands with with
(21:50):
weights of course, I mean weights have to be proportional
of your sure your state of shape.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Let's say I was going to say you were going
to question my age, but I know you're twenty three
and so basically mobility with a little bit of strength,
but not to static. Yes, but okay, and some explosivity involved,
because that's well news, it's going downhill.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Everything is connected. If you're if you're used to, if
you are able to use your body with the perfect
connection on the segment as a chain, the responsifity is
going to be Yeah, the specifity is going to be there.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
All right.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
As far as nutritions.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Go, well that's another big, big jump forward.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
We did absolutely yeah, because as players we are so
used to, you know, having to always have enough fuel
and all of this. But then I see more with
the guys, I would say that, you know, then it's
time to kind of accept that, Okay, we are not
burning as much, we are not five hours anymore training.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So I think that's listen. I mean again, also, now
science helps a lot, because I mean, for example, now
it's very common to do genetic and epigenetic test that
is going to be exactly who you are, what you
need and actually can be also can detect also possibly
(23:24):
I don't want to say sickness or something like this,
but for example, I don't know, possibly diabetic type two
in twenty years for example. So you can start to
work right now for that which is not that one
other pertent, sure that you're going to have this one.
But your DNA, you know, all the modification NA through
the epigenetic can be arrived in that point there your
(23:47):
body in the next twenty years. So also there the
nutrition the supplementation now is totally it can be totally.
Are you say in are you saying? I mean you
can you can check again all these things according exactly
on your topology your DNA, and this of course is
(24:09):
helping a lot so the anti AH. Basically you know
when you when we are talking about the antihe, we
know that some product can trigger some part of your
body and can of course putting down more than inflammation
for example that you have due to the stress the life,
normal life, do the no movement or some other you know,
(24:30):
some other things. So this can bring completely down the inflammation.
That could be great advantage for the longevity, for the
for everything.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
So to sum it up, basically, what I invest in
my body now, I'm going to be hopefully grateful in
four years.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yes, I'm sure absolutely, life or style, you know, but
I mean these things you know that that's the common
sense says something like this. But we can go target.
Now that's even no more much better.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Lastly, because we are going really down and specific, and
I feel like we could sit here for hours discussing this.
As far as recovery, what has changed, Let's say, from
I mean already eyes bud and creat therapy was like,
well we are killing it. I mean we are on
top of things.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Well yeah, yeah yeah, also there I mean nutritions again,
nutrition for sure, absolutely, but can recovery can be absolutely
be addressed by nutrition? And you know, there are so
many things that now we can discuss if they are
allowed or not allowed. For example, when you talk about
(25:38):
aberberty chamber, I mean I'm not here making conversion to
eberberdy chamber, but are all things that can help ourselves
to put it down. Information for example, which is the
eldorado of the youtheness you know, and the healthy well
whatever it is. And there are so many things now
(25:59):
that can help you. I mean, is.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Pants that yeah, I was going to ask you about that,
that makes really no.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Absolutely yes, absolutely yes, because I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
But then there are also the old good classics like
still go on the big after right after the.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Match and stretching.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I never forget when you were telling me that when
you first started to stretch your players three years ago,
that was already like ballets was big.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
As I told you, they kicked me out from one
tournament in Romania back to the ninety No, eighteen.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Ninety which was the first year you started.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Oh to think about that eighty four, wow, eighty four.
The time was satellite, no future satellite, So you had
to spend one month somewhere. If you luck you play
the Master final Master, I give you two or three points.
But if you don't get to the to the final Master,
you basin you lose three weeks?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Does it help?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And I do believe pig time as you know that
you're background is in track and field, because let's not
forget that you were one of the.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well mean talents of a long time.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
I was, I mean, I was really average. No, well,
I would say that.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Because you guys, track and field that's the ultimate athleticism.
You don't have tools that help you. Yeah, So I
always feel like that's a huge, huge.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I think that track and field give me the mentality
a little bit to keep investigating. Be curious what could
help you know as a in terms of new work planning,
you know, new study that. Remember when we started to
do biometric jumps until it was and I was eighteen nineteen,
(27:46):
so I try on my skin. It looks like, wow,
this this methodology comes from Mars. You know this a
drop jump. There was this famous Russian professor that was
at the time, was at the top of the top.
We got this book at the time like it was like,
you know, coming from heaven really so it was funny.
(28:10):
I think this track and field can help you. So
you stay with that kind of mentality, you know, to
always the goal is try to improve what I need
to do, what I had to apply and you know,
investigate a lot. What is the new research that can
help you.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Started on the tour with the players eighty four, what
has been the highlight of your career?
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Well, now, I don't want to sounds to normal, but
I would say that all my players was unbelievable journey
with all of them, all of them. I don't think
I never learned or I never had pleasure to work
with someone, but all of them, compared with the other
(28:55):
side now of the microphone, was a huge privilege for
me to keep learning to share. Basically now I'm sixty
almost sixty one, and I don't have kids, but I
consider all my players. Before they were my brother's system.
Now they are my my son and daughter. Soon they're
(29:15):
going to be a nephew and his. But it was
a really great journey. Keep doing keep I mean, I
still loved what I'm doing. So that's probably the best gift.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
That's an answer.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Who was the most stubborn one?
Speaker 3 (29:39):
No, let me say something like that. No, no, no, no, no, no, absolutely,
I mean all of you was, of course, I mean
a person, wonderful person anyway, But of course when you
deal with the pressure and everything sometimes can be tough.
I understand. So that's the way again, the team has
to be kind of mattras, you know, something that absorbs
(30:02):
a little bit, the high pick and the lower pick.
So to to make sure that your play is in
this operative calm of the zone you can call a rosa,
you can call it what you want. That that's the
area that they can perform. You know. Then, of course,
so many factors that can the best work ethic tough
(30:27):
to say, but I would say not because you are here,
you Novak, You're unique for sure. As a as a dedication,
let's say, as a dedication to the work. Absolutely, yes,
but also the other I don't want to sound but
but yeah, but you know this tree that I said,
(30:51):
not because I mean I want to please you because
you are here, but I think that thanks to you,
I learned a lot about the headache work heading. I
mean absolutely, and yeah, sometimes we you we need to
just you know, like the horse, just hold you a
little bit more because it could beg in the side
of the moon. But no, no, that's that's that's what's fantastic.
(31:17):
H
Well, Marco, thank you so much for your time, because
these days you are one of the busiest people in
the house taking.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Care obviously of the number one in the world.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Jan Nick Sinner, So thank you so much for coming
here to our podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
My big pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You know, I have prepared a lot of questions, but
I have a feeling this is going to be going
so off road and off script. And it's funny for
me because it's the first time you actually see me working.
We never yes, I've seen all your work that you've
done all these years, but never never the other way around.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
So exactly I was expecting actually with the racket, to
see you with the racket and jumping like you were
used to do it before.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You know, we're getting also time times are changing anyways,
just just quickly on the tournament. What is one of
the biggest challenges from the physical side.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Well, you know, I would change a little bit of
the schedule and planning of the of the tour. Let's
say we arrive actually now here in Australia and my player,
for example, he played the Davis Cup finals, so which
means we had a really short short time considering also
he needs to he needed to rest a little bit,
(01:20):
of course. And so before, for example, we had almost
between six eight weeks of precision, do you remember this,
So we had time to you know, to work a lot,
to make a little you say, a large spectrum of
everything and this maybe can help you to recover well,
(01:41):
to make you say, an improvement I mean of some
qualities or whatever it is. And now basically we have
three weeks.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
What do you do.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
No, that's why it's very important, I mean, as you
as you know, as you know that for sure, and
the team is always traveling now much much more than before.
And the new professional figures are part of the team
which is now constantly all the team. Every player has
also over them provisio or stay opath and all these people.
That because we need to try to fix it really
(02:17):
and to change some things in really short time. So
in order to do this, and because the schedule is
very busy all the year, we need to try to
find out two or three let's say weeks during the year,
or more than one or two weeks in order to
(02:39):
come back and train in again before the next two
mench So it's very important how to plan the in
the beginning of the years. Then of course, it depends
if your player are we need more or less, So
this make huge difference. Let's say it's more important now
to see and know very very well your player more
(03:00):
than the you know how to say, how to make
some work, specific work that can be absolutely very quick
in quick quick way to get digested by your player
in order to perform maybe I mean two days and
three days. You know, before we had a little bit
more time to schedule a normal work. Now it's more
(03:23):
reactive everything, so you have to be very you know,
you have to know very very well your player and
how we react on some input that you give to him.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So basically now the reason why the players are traveling.
But let's say with bigger teams is that you actually
do most of the work on the road.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Absolutely absolutely, this is the big change in that we had.
I mean me personally, I mean and thirty years more
than thirty years. Yeah, So if I remember what I
was doing, you know, I was the programmation, let's say,
the planning. Back then, I mean it was just you know,
we go to play and then come back and stay
(04:03):
one place, one base, even though if we keep traveling,
we had time to stay somewhere to practice a little
bit more. Now, I mean I would say that I'm
pretty likely that my player are winning a little bit
more So, the time is very short and you need
all these people around you doctor most of the time.
Also because I mean, we need to always calibrate. For example,
(04:24):
I don't know, supplementation of the players. But then it's
got sciences is much more helping us, much much more.
You know, when we are together, we were working together.
I mean, I don't know, I'm thinking about some No,
(04:46):
I mean we could now for example, we we can
absolutely check, for example, the internal a lot of the player.
We have so many tools that help us, so we
know exactly exactly how the player is reacting, you know,
in what we are doing. So the external lot is
(05:09):
easy because it's the job that we are putting on him.
But the internal load, which depending for example, from an
emotional state, depending from so many things, that's very important
to understand how much they are stressed, for example, So
you can calibrate the external lot based on the internal lot,
and this may all be more easy to make less
(05:30):
mistake from us.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
For example, So would you say, because one of the
things I did want to discuss quite a bit. Is
how much the training has changed since you first joined
the thirty years or more than thirty years ago to
what you do now. So would you say one of
one of the biggest differences is that now you have
the tools to.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Exactly measure and get the feedback on.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Everything you do. Yeah, for example, author right variability?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
For example, I didn't even get that.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Okay, in order don't get too much into it, maybe
be bored. But then I thought I.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Was kind of up to dated with the business. You
know how much I love training and the nutritions.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But obviously not.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, I mean we have now some tools that are
able to exactly calculate the distance of every bit of
the heart. So country how much we think the bit
are not the same in the same time. For example,
if you have sixty bit perminos, doesn't mean it doesn't
mean that every second you have a bit. Sometimes it
(06:31):
will be more than one second, sometimes it will be
less and actually more. That is this variability more our
system is saying the I don't know. For example, so
we have we have the sympathetic system, but a sympathetic system,
I'm talking about nervous system that we know that when
they are working well together, we are rest and we
(06:53):
can activate in a good way. So we are repairing tissue.
We are ready to fight. Okay, So this is, for example,
one of the parameters that the art right ability can check.
So so many things that help us. You know, before
there was in Italy we say okiomet which means the
meters of the highs, which how much you can see
(07:15):
how your player is tired or not. Now we have
also data that helps us a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Well, it's something I always wanted to ask you and
I never did you kind of thanks to Thanks to you,
the tennis changes big time as far as where the
fitness goes, the training goes. Because of your expertise and
your knowledge, where do you go for your resource? Because
you're the one making players better, making them motivated, But
(07:40):
where do you get the motivation from?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And where do.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You I mean I mean simple like when you were playing.
I mean it's the passion that you want to make
you less mistake. You want to perform your player better possible.
So you need to be always a little bit curious.
Let's say, experimentally everything and see what can be useful
for your player, for players in general, for your playings,
(08:04):
in particular, you know, so there are so many things
that help us. Actually, I take advantage of this, tookit
that we have to get to apologize with you because
when we were working together so basically, I didn't have
this possibility to work maybe a little bit more deeply
with you. How Daniella was was let's say, Buddy wise
(08:26):
ready something like that, you know. I mean, again, all
these signs help us a lot.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I was actually going to ask you with everything. You know, now,
let's say it was what two thousand and six, two
thousand and seven that we work together, what would you
have done different?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Also many things that really yeah, sure, I mean that's
again because you you know I always say that we
as me as a fitness coach or tennis coach or
whatever it is, and we need to just throw the
suit on top of the player, you know. I mean
that's very important. I mean, every player is different. I'm
not talking about leverage or I'm talking about also emotionally
(09:08):
all these things. So more we know the player more,
we can yeah, suit the perfect suit for for the player.
You know that that's the goal for for for let's say,
all the sports basically, So this is and the more informasure,
you can get through all these things again. More you
(09:33):
you are targeting what you're doing, you are not losing
maybe time, you're you're the possibility to make your player,
for example, to avoid all the injury possible. Now, for example,
I mean, I'm thinking about this fascia. Maybe you heard
about that. So it's this tissue that is all inside
our body, you know, of course, yeah, that's it. So
(09:55):
before when I was studying, when I was working the
first year, I mean, fascia was a kind of an
envelope around the muscle and around the tissue. We didn't
know what what actually was. Now with the new signs,
for example, we saw that the fashion is very is
one of the probably the most important thing that allowed
the body to move smoothly perfectly, you know. So because
(10:16):
it's kind of a net that is all around our body,
all around our bones, muscle, tendons and everything. Plus is
full of this let's say, little transistor that can send
absolutely every second information to our brain. So and more
you are able to use this fashion, and now it's
(10:38):
possible to train this fashion. We know how to train
the fashion. More the movement is clear, more accuracy, you know,
and more the bodies moving.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Well, so you're saying we actually can train instead of
the muscles the fascia.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yes, absolutely, yes, absolutely, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
So pretty much we would have done everything differently.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
No, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I think it's like this with everything. The more you know,
the more you try to come up with new exercises.
But there are always the bread and butter ones, right
for sure. So what is for you, like the golden
one that you have to make sure all your players
do I think I know the answer.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
But is it the squad?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Well, yes for someone, yes, for some other not for
example my last two players, for example, I didn't use
the squad that much really for example. Yeah, then you know,
depends women, men, depends what kind of player you are,
how much is your body type? You know, there are
so many things to consider when you do something like that.
Tennis is requiring certain you know, effort, physiological effort, require
(11:50):
a lot of coordination in there and intramuscular. So the
goal that we that anyway we need to let's say
per it is what can help players to play tennis
and no soccer or basketball. So that's that's the main
goal me personally. As soon I see which kind of
(12:14):
player I'm working with, I try to address what is
at limned. The last two players again that work they
were They are pretty similar as a body type. So
I'm extremely flexible, extremely elastic, let's say, oriented, fascia oriented,
I would, I would underline. And so what we are
(12:36):
doing is particularly to try to increase Okay, the strength,
that's perfect, but how you use the strength, how you
are able to connect all the segments of the body
with the good connection, with good timing, with good coordination,
in order to be very accuracy, and you can last
(12:58):
longer because you are spending very few energy because you're
moving perfectly. Let's say, so all the balance, all the
exercise that actually so we were doing, are all part
of this big cake to do in order to perform
a court.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Let's just not forget to mention that the last two
players we are talking about, it's Novaki, So just quickly
on on them, especially being to Novak for so many years,
and let's say, I think you agree one of the
greatest athletes in the history of not only tennis, but in.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Sports in general.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Is there something obviously you had so much to give
to him. Is there something you actually learned from him?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Absolutely? But I learned from everybody. I mean, of course
from absolutely. That's that's guaranteed, particularly with Nova coming, is
his mentality towards the work coming this this big guy,
not only him, but I have the lack of to do,
you know, to have the possibility to leave a little
(14:03):
bit of this big four and now this new upcoming
great player like you or Leanaw whatever it is. And
the common let's say, point of all of you, it's
how whatever you do can help you as a tennis player.
You know that that was actually and you keep learning
(14:27):
me as a part of the stuff. You keep learning
from you. How everything is related, I mean, how you
are you I don't know. Also something very far from tennis.
I mean if it was reading a book, whatever he
was reading, he could bring it on court. So you
(14:48):
always find the connection between whatever he's doing to the court,
what can improve him as a person, as an athlete,
as a whatever I mean father for example, I mean
can be related on court. So we always say that
athlete is connected with the persons of body. Mind is
working and one unit it is always working together. So
(15:13):
that's your common point.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Would you say stubbornness as well?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Absolutely, I mean obsession, but I want to just be
clear when I say stubborn and obsession, I mean the
functional stubborn and functional obsession in what you do brings
you in another level for sure, So not the one
that goes to the pathology, of course, So that's very important.
But then somebody can call passion, somebody can call it
(15:40):
you know, whatever it is, but love what you do.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Where do you draw that line though, between being stubborn
in a way that it helps you as an athlete
and to a point where you actually let it go
and be open and receive the feedback from the team.
Was it Was it easy, let's say, with Novak, to
kind of receive your information and what you were trying
to Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I think the line, the borderline between yeah, functional, non functional,
stubborn or whatever it is, is the fact that you
anyway are open to listen. Okay, you want to arrive
to the point, but you are ready to give and
receive feedback. So to give a receive feedback is kind
(16:23):
of an art because I mean, there are so many
ways you can communicate a feedback or receive a feedback
that can change completely the meaning of what you're saying.
And that's also is another I think plus that as
as a team we need to master a little bit.
I mean the communication, the effective communication, you know, have
(16:46):
to be sometimes you need to be straight. Sometimes you
can arrive and you to understand to send some message
to the player that you don't feel are you say,
for example, that's happened to me most of the time,
and what player you're working with, of course, But sometimes
I don't say, look what you're doing is not right.
I could say, because this could be taken by the
(17:09):
player like no, I'm trying to do it. Why you
say that it's not right. I can say, look what
you're doing or how you are behaving make me feel
that this is something like that, so they cannot questioning
how I'm feeling, you know. So it's something just not
because I want to be right or wrong, but I
want to create the real communication and efficiency communication, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And I think sometimes I think of a different cultural
background that maybe be underestimated. Sometimes to a player from
let's say Eastern Europe, maybe you can be much more straightforward,
where to someone from another country you have to kind
of find a way how to go about it. And
I believe it's always kind of a working process to
(17:56):
always see where the where the limits are and how
to them and how.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
To accept right and also a difference age when you grow.
You know there is also a change in the communication.
You know, so many factors that can but of course
there are some little knowledge tools you can call whatever
you want, but you had to habitally if you want to,
(18:21):
because I mean communication in the hand it's very important
more than jump heat or something like that at a
certain level.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Of course, would you say you had to approach female
athletes differently than than guys.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
No, I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say there's difference
between men and women. There is different between persons, whatever
they are, men or women. You know, the background, like
you said that, the character that they have, this determinate
what kind of person you are. So we have the
dew we need to understand we have in front of us.
(19:01):
Because if the main goal is to be able to
trust meth some things to be useful for the player,
we need to know also how to tell them. Because
you can be the best coach in the world and
the best player in the world. You are not fitting
together for some reason.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
You know, one question that I think so many of.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
My group will appreciate to know a little bit more,
whether it's Lindsay Won Andrekovich, who I just finished playing
doubles with.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
How do you train a retired athlete?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Because I think that is not an easy thing to
do because obviously we come to the gym already with
some kind of experience, expectations, And how do you find
the balance between not pushing us too much, obviously because
everybodies have been through a lot, but also not giving
us like a forty five minute yoga session and thinking
that's going to be okay. I think it's one of
(19:53):
the most tricky jobs to have.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Well, I would say that guys listen regardless regarding what
we were saying before we were saying before. I mean,
the fascia is one of the most let's say, tricky
part of our body. Because if you don't keep moving
on the on the right way between this layer of
(20:19):
fashion that is kind of college and collage and let's
say this this fluid that if you are able to
keep this fluid very no sticky, you know, but very
very smooth, the movement is smooth, which means you are
not creating some resistance in some part of your body,
but all the body is moving fluently. Let's say, so
(20:41):
for our age, which is my age for fortum plus,
it's very important to keep moving in the right way,
be careful what you're doing. Of course, don't do crazy
stuff like jumping with you know, from the trampolina. But
I mean do a lot of exercise of mobility and
strength with just keeping in mind to using this kind
(21:04):
of you know, keeping moving the body all together. So
I mean isolation exercise for example, could be good for
some time, but not the main goal for people that
so for summer, yeah, it's okay for the for the
to keep judges tests a little bit more more, let's
say into the limit. But I would say three dimensional
(21:28):
movement for example, that that make the body work on
these three different planes that we have, which is frontal,
you know, digital, you know this plane, you know. Okay,
let's say make it easy. I mean it's just moving
all the body with some resistance with bands with with
(21:50):
weights of course, I mean weights have to be proportional
of your sure your state of shape.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Let's say I was going to say you were going
to question my age, but I know you're twenty three
and so basically mobility with a little bit of strength,
but not to static. Yes, but okay, and some explosivity involved,
because that's well news, it's going downhill.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Everything is connected. If you're if you're used to, if
you are able to use your body with the perfect
connection on the segment as a chain, the responsifity is
going to be Yeah, the specifity is going to be there.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
All right.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
As far as nutritions.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Go, well that's another big, big jump forward.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
We did absolutely yeah, because as players we are so
used to, you know, having to always have enough fuel
and all of this. But then I see more with
the guys, I would say that, you know, then it's
time to kind of accept that, Okay, we are not
burning as much, we are not five hours anymore training.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So I think that's listen. I mean again, also, now
science helps a lot, because I mean, for example, now
it's very common to do genetic and epigenetic test that
is going to be exactly who you are, what you
need and actually can be also can detect also possibly
(23:24):
I don't want to say sickness or something like this,
but for example, I don't know, possibly diabetic type two
in twenty years for example. So you can start to
work right now for that which is not that one
other pertent, sure that you're going to have this one.
But your DNA, you know, all the modification NA through
the epigenetic can be arrived in that point there your
(23:47):
body in the next twenty years. So also there the
nutrition the supplementation now is totally it can be totally.
Are you say in are you saying? I mean you
can you can check again all these things according exactly
on your topology your DNA, and this of course is
(24:09):
helping a lot so the anti AH. Basically you know
when you when we are talking about the antihe, we
know that some product can trigger some part of your
body and can of course putting down more than inflammation
for example that you have due to the stress the life,
normal life, do the no movement or some other you know,
(24:30):
some other things. So this can bring completely down the inflammation.
That could be great advantage for the longevity, for the
for everything.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
So to sum it up, basically, what I invest in
my body now, I'm going to be hopefully grateful in
four years.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yes, I'm sure absolutely, life or style, you know, but
I mean these things you know that that's the common
sense says something like this. But we can go target.
Now that's even no more much better.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Lastly, because we are going really down and specific, and
I feel like we could sit here for hours discussing this.
As far as recovery, what has changed, Let's say, from
I mean already eyes bud and creat therapy was like,
well we are killing it. I mean we are on
top of things.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Well yeah, yeah yeah, also there I mean nutritions again,
nutrition for sure, absolutely, but can recovery can be absolutely
be addressed by nutrition? And you know, there are so
many things that now we can discuss if they are
allowed or not allowed. For example, when you talk about
(25:38):
aberberty chamber, I mean I'm not here making conversion to
eberberdy chamber, but are all things that can help ourselves
to put it down. Information for example, which is the
eldorado of the youtheness you know, and the healthy well
whatever it is. And there are so many things now
(25:59):
that can help you. I mean, is.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Pants that yeah, I was going to ask you about that,
that makes really no.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Absolutely yes, absolutely yes, because I mean.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
But then there are also the old good classics like
still go on the big after right after the.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Match and stretching.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I never forget when you were telling me that when
you first started to stretch your players three years ago,
that was already like ballets was big.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
As I told you, they kicked me out from one
tournament in Romania back to the ninety No, eighteen.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Ninety which was the first year you started.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Oh to think about that eighty four, wow, eighty four.
The time was satellite, no future satellite, So you had
to spend one month somewhere. If you luck you play
the Master final Master, I give you two or three points.
But if you don't get to the to the final Master,
you basin you lose three weeks?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Does it help?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And I do believe pig time as you know that
you're background is in track and field, because let's not
forget that you were one of the.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well mean talents of a long time.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
I was, I mean, I was really average. No, well,
I would say that.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Because you guys, track and field that's the ultimate athleticism.
You don't have tools that help you. Yeah, So I
always feel like that's a huge, huge.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I think that track and field give me the mentality
a little bit to keep investigating. Be curious what could
help you know as a in terms of new work planning,
you know, new study that. Remember when we started to
do biometric jumps until it was and I was eighteen nineteen,
(27:46):
so I try on my skin. It looks like, wow,
this this methodology comes from Mars. You know this a
drop jump. There was this famous Russian professor that was
at the time, was at the top of the top.
We got this book at the time like it was like,
you know, coming from heaven really so it was funny.
(28:10):
I think this track and field can help you. So
you stay with that kind of mentality, you know, to
always the goal is try to improve what I need
to do, what I had to apply and you know,
investigate a lot. What is the new research that can
help you.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Started on the tour with the players eighty four, what
has been the highlight of your career?
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Well, now, I don't want to sounds to normal, but
I would say that all my players was unbelievable journey
with all of them, all of them. I don't think
I never learned or I never had pleasure to work
with someone, but all of them, compared with the other
(28:55):
side now of the microphone, was a huge privilege for
me to keep learning to share. Basically now I'm sixty
almost sixty one, and I don't have kids, but I
consider all my players. Before they were my brother's system.
Now they are my my son and daughter. Soon they're
(29:15):
going to be a nephew and his. But it was
a really great journey. Keep doing keep I mean, I
still loved what I'm doing. So that's probably the best gift.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
That's an answer.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Who was the most stubborn one?
Speaker 3 (29:39):
No, let me say something like that. No, no, no, no, no, no, absolutely,
I mean all of you was, of course, I mean
a person, wonderful person anyway, But of course when you
deal with the pressure and everything sometimes can be tough.
I understand. So that's the way again, the team has
to be kind of mattras, you know, something that absorbs
(30:02):
a little bit, the high pick and the lower pick.
So to to make sure that your play is in
this operative calm of the zone you can call a rosa,
you can call it what you want. That that's the
area that they can perform. You know. Then, of course,
so many factors that can the best work ethic tough
(30:27):
to say, but I would say not because you are here,
you Novak, You're unique for sure. As a as a dedication,
let's say, as a dedication to the work. Absolutely, yes,
but also the other I don't want to sound but
but yeah, but you know this tree that I said,
(30:51):
not because I mean I want to please you because
you are here, but I think that thanks to you,
I learned a lot about the headache work heading. I
mean absolutely, and yeah, sometimes we you we need to
just you know, like the horse, just hold you a
little bit more because it could beg in the side
of the moon. But no, no, that's that's that's what's fantastic.
(31:17):
H
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