November 24, 2024 • 24 mins
The Australian Open holds a special place in Donna Kelso's heart; it was where she officiated her last match as a chair umpire — the women's final of AO 1998. The Sydneysider has since held an ongoing role as a WTA supervisor, which sees her travel the world and visit incredible locations as the tour traverses the globe. It's the continuation of a long-running connection to tennis for Kelso, who picked up the sport as a child after winning a racquet in a colouring competition, and who progressed to calling lines as a teenager at the NSW Open. She sat down with Viv and Matt to discuss her tennis journey, her trailblazing role as a female gold-badge chair umpire, her best on-court moments as a tennis official, and her famous shoe collection.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Sitdown.
I'm Matt Prolopa, writer for oz open dot com and.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm viv Christine, managing editor of us Join In Tennis Magazine.
And Matt, why are we sitting down this week with
Donna Kelso?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Well, if we bumped into Donna at the United Cup draw.
So she's a WTA supervisor and she was home for
a rare week a miiddle of her global travels in Sydney,
and we just asked her as she'd like to appear
on the podcast because she's been in tennis for a
very very long time and we figured she'd have a
great story to tell. And so yeah, she joined us
on the episode and it was really interesting.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Donna Calso, thank you for joining us today on the
sit Down. It's great to have you with us. We
catch you, i think in a rare week at home
in Sydney.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You're absolutely correct, Thank you so much for the invitation. Then, yes,
happy to share some of my journey with you.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Speaking of that journey, your love of tennis started in
a really interesting way. I understand you want to racket
in a competition. Tell us a little bit more about
your start in tennis what you loved about at the
mist that's right, as.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
You correctly alluded to, I want a coloring in competition
age eight, first prize was a tennis racket, so probably
better have some tennis lessons to put that racket to
good use. And it was fun. It was a good
way to meet people. Obviously to be a little bit active,
so into the local tennis school where I grew up
(01:30):
in the Saint George area in Sydney, and it was
a fun way to spend time on the weekends after school,
et cetera. And that's how my love of tennis began.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Basically, it's the start of an amazing journey in tennis really,
which has taken you into a career in umpiring and officiating.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
What inspired you to take that path? I think growing
up playing local junior branch comp or local tournaments, the
culture was that in addition to playing, you would also
umpire each other's matches. Similarly, the tennis school I went to,
which was owned by Bill Gilmore who was a very
(02:11):
highly prominent referee. When it rained, instead of tennis lessons
being canceled, we would go and sit in the shed
and we would learn the rules of tennis, and something
that I think was ingrained in us from a very
young age that we would learn about the sport, learn
about the history and obviously the rules of the competition.
(02:33):
So I found it quite fascinating. And Bill Gilmore, being
the referee for the New South Welles Open, which was
then held at White City, would recruit a lot of
the ball persons and a lot of the line umpires
from his tennis schools. So I tried out age fourteen
as a ball girl, was highly unsuccessful, but my best
friend was it was probably a little bit too young
(02:57):
to go down the officiating pathway. So two years later,
age sixteen, went to a three hour long run on
Pire training session at White City and the following week
we were calling lines of the New South I was Open,
so that who Yeah, it was a fun way to
spend a couple of weeks during the school holiday. So
(03:18):
still it's still in year eleven back then, and we
had a really good social network, a really good social group.
We would drive into White City together.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
And we would leave early so we would get a
parking spot and we would be able to get on
the first match because we got paid per match in
those days, so the earlier you got there, you could
maybe squeeze four matches in a day instead of three,
and at seven dollars per match.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
From memory, that made a bit of a difference. Was
that quite daunting?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I mean you were very young, and it's quite a
you know, that comes with a lot of responsibility that job.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
It does absolutely. I think you'll find though that many
of us did start at that age, some who continued
on to have quite lengthy tennis officiating careers. Coincidentally, Wayne McEwen,
straight open referee, was at that very same line umpire
training session back in nineteen eighty two and we actually
(04:17):
used to play tennis against each other even before then.
So yeah, so fairly productive, you know, through our line
up training session. And some of those other officials went
on to travel internationally to become you know, chair umpires,
but obviously some stopped after they've finished high school or
when they finished UNI or found full time jobs. But
(04:40):
it was fun, it was social, I mean, obviously a
great way to see tennis up close and personal, and yeah,
we developed a really cool group. Yes, I think starting
at a younger age, you maybe don't overthink a lot
of things that you might if you were a little
bit older, so we probably didn't recognize the enormity of
(05:04):
it at the time. But there were also many of
us who did start at that very very young age
sixteen seventeen eighteen, as did a lot of other countries.
You know, you'll find that they're officials started at a
younger age, but sometimes it just takes a little longer
to go along the pathway to become more prominent.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Did you ever get hit by a ball as a
lines person, like down the centeration?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yes, I did. I always think that.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
The person that's doing the center tee when someone's serving,
I just think, God, duck for cover.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I hated doing seed to serve at the Sydney Indoor,
the Entertainment Center calling center serve, and I just despise
it so much because I was in fear of a
ball coming and hitting me that I think I sort
of ducked, closed my eyes and the ball bounced off
my forehead after I don't know, I don't even know
if I called it in or out, but anyway, that's
(05:58):
kind of saved myself more and anything.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So alongside all the skills that you need for a
line officiating career reflexes.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, absolutely, some gymnastics, so you obviously graduated away from
lines and ended up becoming a gold Badge umpire in
the chair in the nineteen nineties, and you told us
that there was some incredible milestones in your career. You
officiated the Atlanta Olympics gold medal match between Davenport and
Sanchez for Carrio. You did five Australian Open finals. I
(06:28):
remember the US Open finally ninety seven between Hingus and
Venus two teenagers. That was kind of my era growing up.
I remember watching that on TV. And also Monica sellers
come back in ninety ninety five in Canada. That must
have been particularly special given what had happened to her.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Absolutely, and you know, yes, the Grand Slam finals are amazing.
You know, they were all very different, but I think
for me, Monica Sellis's comeback match after what happened to
her was just so meaningful. And to begin the privilege
of umpiring the match when she was to walk back
(07:05):
onto a tennis court for the first time after the
horrific incident that she suffered, Nobody knew how she was
going to play, how she was going to react. Obviously,
the crowd was just in an there was just this
raw when she came down the stets onto the court
and you could feel the goosebumps and it was probably
(07:27):
just one of the most special moments I can remember
having the privilege of being part of on a tennis court.
She subsequently won that match, won the next match, and
actually went on to win the tournament I can remember correctly.
She beat Anka Huber in the final, So she beat
some really high profile players, highly ranked players at the time.
(07:52):
So first tournament back and I umpired the final as
well that week, And yeah, I think, you know, on
a personal level, on a human level, that's the match
that sticks out for me more so than anything else.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, a nice full circle to do her first match
in her last match at the tournament as well.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
That's pretty special here, absolutely very very special.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
And five AO finals that's amazing. Obviously we're very interested
in that because we're an AO podcast. So I think
was your last one Hingus and Martinez in ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
It was that was my last ever match in the
chair as an umpire.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Wow, And another also incredible story to watch Hingus's rise.
I mean, she had such a fantastic time here at
the AO. Did you do her ninety seven final as well.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Oh you're testing me now, I think I did. Okay,
I think I did. I did out of the I
did five out of six years.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
At that stage I also unpied Martina Hingis's first ever
professional match, which is in Zurich when she was fourteen,
and I can remember then there were so many players, coaches,
tournament staff, tour stuff. Everybody wanted to come out and see,
you know, what this female was all about. And obviously
(09:08):
she went on she won that match and impaired a
lot of her matches, a lot of her finals throughout
her career.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So at the time that was pretty significant that you
were a gold bad Jumphie, because you were only one
of two women who were at that level at that time,
and you've told us that kind of maybe you didn't
recognize the significance of that at the time, but now
that you think about it, that actually was a really
big deal.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
It was, and I think coming into officiating, obviously there
were a handful of high profile female role models in
tennis officiating, but there were certainly a lot more males
compared to females. It was tough and especially breaking through
to umpiring men's matches. As a female, there were really
(09:52):
really not that many of us, so it was it
was tough to break through. We found it very different
being females ampiring men's matches compared to women's matches, and sometimes,
funnily enough, some of the tougher male players, maybe sort
(10:12):
of lower ranked or challenger players responded differently and may
I say even possibly better behaved when there were females
in the chair, which is always quite interesting. And when
I look back now, I'm very very proud of that achievement,
you know, hopefully forging the way for female officials and
(10:35):
giving upcoming female officials somebody to look up to. One
of my passions now is you know, mentoring and helping
other officials, because I know when I came through, I
had some outstanding women. Georgina Clark, who was a former
longtime WTA supervisor and a cheir umpire prior to that.
(10:56):
Also Pat Walker, who was from New South Wales who
was originally a chair umpire and then she was the
chief umpire at the time when we all started officiating.
She was very much an advocate of giving young officials
an opportunity and giving other females opportunities. In one of
my roles at WTA tournaments, I have the wonderful job
(11:19):
of fulfilling ticket requests. So about twenty years ago, I
was doing the ticketing for Indian Wells and we had
a request from our then COO for some of his family,
which included a young twelve year old girl by the
name of Madison Shoemaker. Anyway, so I met Scott and
(11:41):
Mary and the parents and Maddie and her brother, and
apparently after we'd been chatting for a bit, she turned
around to a paris and said, I want to be
like her. So she remembers my walkie talkie and my
credentially anything. Anyway, she went on to play collegiate tennis,
went on to become an intern with the WTA and
has held a number of roles within the WTA rankings, coordinator,
(12:04):
tour operations. Last weekend she passed her Silver Badge referee
school and is now a WTA supervisor. Oh wow, that's
probably my most prolific story, especially somebody so young to
see a female role model in the sport that she loves.
And she took her twenty years, but she's achieved her dream.
(12:29):
And I could not be more proud. It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Congratulations. Is it that diversity or is there something else
that makes it so special that has kept you in
the role for so long, because clearly it has been
really rewarding.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
It's the opportunity I think for me now, particularly the
longer I'm involved, to feel as though you're helping to
make a difference. Because all of the players who are
competing now on the WTA Tour I've known since they
started their journey on the tour, and when players first
come to play a tur or level, I think one
(13:02):
of the biggest responsibilities we have is educating them on
the rules, on the procedures, you know, feeling that it's
it's a safe space to walk into the w TA office,
that we're not scary. Yes, sometimes we have to make
tough decisions or decisions that individual players don't necessarily agree with,
particularly around scheduling. However, we need to fulfill a lot
(13:30):
of different requests, particularly in scheduling between the players, the
tournament's international broadcast, domestic broadcast, et cetera. And also look
to to schedule with parity and looking at the overall tournament. Yeah,
but again, forming, you know, meaningful working relationships with players,
(13:56):
coaches and their their players, support teams and feeling like
you're you're helping, you share their you witness their their
joys and their celebrations. You're there also at times when
you know they have disappointments, whether it's through loss or injury,
but just to be able to feel like we're helping.
(14:17):
Similarly with the tournaments, because we service the tournaments as well,
part of our responsibility is to share best practices. If
we see something that a tournament does really well that
we think another tournament you could learn from, then we're
coming forth with suggestions. We're you know, we're writing lengthy
(14:38):
reports at the end of the tournament with player feedback,
stuff feedback. So, yeah, every day is different, every week
is different. We start off with a template that we follow,
so we know, you know, every tournament has a certain
daw size, a certain schedule, timings that you adhere to,
whether it be the signings, the stuff out of play,
(15:01):
start of different sessions, and then you know culminates with
the finals at the end of the week. So you
sort of go on this bit of a rollercoaster journey,
particularly at the Slams too, being there you know, three
three and a half weeks. For me, there's that incredible
buzz and excitement day one, main draw of a Grand
(15:22):
Slam that it never gets old. But I also still
love the travel, going to new places. Oftentimes we'll go
back to the same places year after year after year,
which is something that for many tournaments they love having
the continuity of the same supervisor. But also if I'm
(15:43):
going back to the same tournament, I know who to
go to to get things done. I know who's responsible
for you know, the locker rooms, the transport, the accreditation,
et cetera. Who to go to with a specific issue,
and you know, we almost pick come part of the
tournament team for that week. Do you have.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Favorite places to travel or favorite tournaments?
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I certainly do. My favorite place is to travel Paris
and New York, great cities. Don't ask me to choose
between the two because that's almost impossible. In terms of
favorite tournaments and destinations as well on the tour. Do
you buy an Indian Wells? Two of my favorite spots
(16:28):
Indian Wells. If you've ever been there, you know the
desert a couple of hours from La surrounded by snow
capped mountains and palm trees, and there's just this feeling
of serenity out there, and I think that transcends into
the tournament itself. D Youbai just I love the city.
I love the yeah, phenomenal level of service. Anywhere you
(16:52):
go the hotel is on site, so no transport needed
to get to work, just walk past the duck pond
in the morning. So I mean every tournament. I went
back to Rome this year for the first time in
twenty one years, so it was great to see how
that had hadn't changed in some aspects and some areas
(17:16):
that had not changed at all. So yeah, I love
the variety. And for me also there's that finite start
and finish of a tournament, so when you do conclude
the event, it's like, you know, hopefully, job well done,
move on to the next one. Although in saying that,
(17:38):
I'm already in preparation mode. I'm currently working on Brisbane, AO,
Dubai and Indian Worlds for next year.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
And then in January, well next month I'll start working.
I'm going back to Berlin for the first time in
more than twenty years, so excited to go there. Already
started some discussions around Roland Garros. Yeah, so it's continuous,
amazing advice.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Now you are famous for your shoe collection. Can we
talk about your shoes please?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Of course you can. There's something that started quite a
while bag. I'm one of these people you know, either post,
you know, post something fun, post something nice, or don't
post anything at all. And I do have a love
of shoes, so I would often take a photo of
my shoes after i'd unpacked them lined up in the
(18:29):
hotel room. And for example, these are the successful shoes
that have been, you know, chosen for the twenty twenty
five Australian Open or something silly like that. So then
that sort of take it off and I'll get to
tournaments sometimes and friends will say to me, where's your
shoe photo? I haven't seen your shoe photo online yet.
(18:50):
Or I've seen other friends, often male, who might post
a photo of their you know, three pairs of shoes
that they're looking to the tournament when I've got about twelve.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
I am trying to be a bit more cognizant of
what I'm packing and you know, trying to scale down
a little bit, but it doesn't always happen. I like
being if I'm at a tournament for two weeks or
three weeks. I like to have options learnly. Yeah, plast
drive cleaning is very expensive.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So also your your shoe fans would be very disappointed.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, they don't want to be seeing the shoe collection
whittling down.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I I'm one of those fans. It's funny. And again,
you know, we sometimes you just need to have a
sense of humor about different things. And you know, we're
not saving lives, but we we sometimes are doing things
that are very very serious, and we certainly take our
role serious. But if you can have a little bit
(19:49):
of fun along the way, then you know, then why not.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
What makes the cut on finals day? Like is there
is there the shoe that's like the special occasion shoe
or the big match shoe. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
It depends what surface.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Oh, of course, yes.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So for example, when working at Wimbledon as a Grand
Slam supervisor, I would always show my shoes to the
head groundsmen to make sure that they were suitable, and
that became a little bit of a joke between us
as well, like are these you know, are these shoes
okay to wear on center court? And because you obviously
you don't want to use to Letto's and put divots
(20:24):
in the court if you have to run on the court.
But yeah, there's there's qualifying shoes as main draw shoes,
as final stay shoes. There you know, black tie gala shoes,
not where we go to many of them. But yeah,
people are noticing that there's a lot more ballet flats
and sneakers coming into the collection compared two years ago.
(20:48):
But that's you know, that's the fashion though, isn't it
so exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
You said in terms of what you do day to day,
sometimes you get to watch a bit of tennis. We've
actually seen you on TV a courtside it some incredible
matches when you do get that little bit of time
to watch tennis, And because you've been in the sport
for so long, you must have seen some incredible matches
and moments and highlights. And I just we're just wondering
what have stuck with you?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Oh my goodness, if I had to think when Pat
Rafter won his first US Open, oh yeah, which was
again nineteen ninety seven, I was able to watch that
as a spectator because I knew that I had, you know,
I'd unpied the Ladies final which is before that, I've
(21:32):
been to a couple of Davis Cup ties where I've
had no involvement working and been able to watch and not.
I wouldn't say, you know, I don't overly support because
we're just in the habit of not clapping and not
showing emotion.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
But yeah, similar, yes, I.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Would say I'm clapping on the inside, so you know,
but it's very very rare that you get an opportunity
to watch and through the eyes of a spectator.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
We remember pats yours open wing. Well, I remember that
even being late for school, Mum, let us stay until
the ended clinch match point. Then it's like right in
the car I got to go to school that Yeah,
we were allowed to watch that. It was amazing, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Well, it's been an incredible career that you have constructed, Donna.
You must be well, you should be so so proud
of everything that you've achieved in tennis. And I imagine
it's one that you would recommend to other people.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I would certainly recommend a career in tennis, whether it's
you know, as an official, as a supervisor, or in
any other aspect. And I think what we've see too
is that there are so many more and varied roles
in working in tennis, you know, than there were if
you even if you go back, you know, ten twenty years,
(22:49):
there are so many new roles for anybody who loves
the sport and particularly who loves to travel and meet people.
And yeah, highly highly recommended.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Well, lots of great takeaways from that interview. One of
them for me is I will never feel guilty about
overpacking again.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, we need to take it from the best in
the business. And yeah, I think it's an outfit for
every occasion. I like Donna's advice.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You can never have too many pairs of shoes. But also,
Donna has featured in so many memorable moments for the sport,
especially in recent women's tennis history. So wasn't it amazing
to hear some of her stories of those experiences.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, it's so great that she's been a great role
model and inspiration to people. But one thing I loved
hearing was that just it felt fitting that her final
match in the chair as a gold bad jumpire was
at her home Grand Slam, in a Grand Slam final.
It's kind of like the pinnacle of umpiring, So that
was lovely.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
It is the pinnacle of umpiring, and I guess particularly
special because I think many Australians have been inspired by
Donna's path and I think many women as well.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah for sure. Well, we'll be back again next week
with another episode of The Sea Down, but in the meantime,
you can listen to John and Brie and the team
this Thursday on the Aoshow Weekly.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Details for how to contact us are in the show notes,
and please subscribe, rate and review. See you next week, Matt,
See you en vib
Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Sitdown.
I'm Matt Prolopa, writer for oz open dot com and.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm viv Christine, managing editor of us Join In Tennis Magazine.
And Matt, why are we sitting down this week with
Donna Kelso?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Well, if we bumped into Donna at the United Cup draw.
So she's a WTA supervisor and she was home for
a rare week a miiddle of her global travels in Sydney,
and we just asked her as she'd like to appear
on the podcast because she's been in tennis for a
very very long time and we figured she'd have a
great story to tell. And so yeah, she joined us
on the episode and it was really interesting.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Donna Calso, thank you for joining us today on the
sit Down. It's great to have you with us. We
catch you, i think in a rare week at home
in Sydney.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You're absolutely correct, Thank you so much for the invitation. Then, yes,
happy to share some of my journey with you.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Speaking of that journey, your love of tennis started in
a really interesting way. I understand you want to racket
in a competition. Tell us a little bit more about
your start in tennis what you loved about at the
mist that's right, as.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
You correctly alluded to, I want a coloring in competition
age eight, first prize was a tennis racket, so probably
better have some tennis lessons to put that racket to
good use. And it was fun. It was a good
way to meet people. Obviously to be a little bit active,
so into the local tennis school where I grew up
(01:30):
in the Saint George area in Sydney, and it was
a fun way to spend time on the weekends after school,
et cetera. And that's how my love of tennis began.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Basically, it's the start of an amazing journey in tennis really,
which has taken you into a career in umpiring and officiating.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
What inspired you to take that path? I think growing
up playing local junior branch comp or local tournaments, the
culture was that in addition to playing, you would also
umpire each other's matches. Similarly, the tennis school I went to,
which was owned by Bill Gilmore who was a very
(02:11):
highly prominent referee. When it rained, instead of tennis lessons
being canceled, we would go and sit in the shed
and we would learn the rules of tennis, and something
that I think was ingrained in us from a very
young age that we would learn about the sport, learn
about the history and obviously the rules of the competition.
(02:33):
So I found it quite fascinating. And Bill Gilmore, being
the referee for the New South Welles Open, which was
then held at White City, would recruit a lot of
the ball persons and a lot of the line umpires
from his tennis schools. So I tried out age fourteen
as a ball girl, was highly unsuccessful, but my best
friend was it was probably a little bit too young
(02:57):
to go down the officiating pathway. So two years later,
age sixteen, went to a three hour long run on
Pire training session at White City and the following week
we were calling lines of the New South I was Open,
so that who Yeah, it was a fun way to
spend a couple of weeks during the school holiday. So
(03:18):
still it's still in year eleven back then, and we
had a really good social network, a really good social group.
We would drive into White City together.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
And we would leave early so we would get a
parking spot and we would be able to get on
the first match because we got paid per match in
those days, so the earlier you got there, you could
maybe squeeze four matches in a day instead of three,
and at seven dollars per match.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
From memory, that made a bit of a difference. Was
that quite daunting?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I mean you were very young, and it's quite a
you know, that comes with a lot of responsibility that job.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
It does absolutely. I think you'll find though that many
of us did start at that age, some who continued
on to have quite lengthy tennis officiating careers. Coincidentally, Wayne McEwen,
straight open referee, was at that very same line umpire
training session back in nineteen eighty two and we actually
(04:17):
used to play tennis against each other even before then.
So yeah, so fairly productive, you know, through our line
up training session. And some of those other officials went
on to travel internationally to become you know, chair umpires,
but obviously some stopped after they've finished high school or
when they finished UNI or found full time jobs. But
(04:40):
it was fun, it was social, I mean, obviously a
great way to see tennis up close and personal, and yeah,
we developed a really cool group. Yes, I think starting
at a younger age, you maybe don't overthink a lot
of things that you might if you were a little
bit older, so we probably didn't recognize the enormity of
(05:04):
it at the time. But there were also many of
us who did start at that very very young age
sixteen seventeen eighteen, as did a lot of other countries.
You know, you'll find that they're officials started at a
younger age, but sometimes it just takes a little longer
to go along the pathway to become more prominent.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Did you ever get hit by a ball as a
lines person, like down the centeration?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yes, I did. I always think that.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
The person that's doing the center tee when someone's serving,
I just think, God, duck for cover.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I hated doing seed to serve at the Sydney Indoor,
the Entertainment Center calling center serve, and I just despise
it so much because I was in fear of a
ball coming and hitting me that I think I sort
of ducked, closed my eyes and the ball bounced off
my forehead after I don't know, I don't even know
if I called it in or out, but anyway, that's
(05:58):
kind of saved myself more and anything.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So alongside all the skills that you need for a
line officiating career reflexes.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, absolutely, some gymnastics, so you obviously graduated away from
lines and ended up becoming a gold Badge umpire in
the chair in the nineteen nineties, and you told us
that there was some incredible milestones in your career. You
officiated the Atlanta Olympics gold medal match between Davenport and
Sanchez for Carrio. You did five Australian Open finals. I
(06:28):
remember the US Open finally ninety seven between Hingus and
Venus two teenagers. That was kind of my era growing up.
I remember watching that on TV. And also Monica sellers
come back in ninety ninety five in Canada. That must
have been particularly special given what had happened to her.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Absolutely, and you know, yes, the Grand Slam finals are amazing.
You know, they were all very different, but I think
for me, Monica Sellis's comeback match after what happened to
her was just so meaningful. And to begin the privilege
of umpiring the match when she was to walk back
(07:05):
onto a tennis court for the first time after the
horrific incident that she suffered, Nobody knew how she was
going to play, how she was going to react. Obviously,
the crowd was just in an there was just this
raw when she came down the stets onto the court
and you could feel the goosebumps and it was probably
(07:27):
just one of the most special moments I can remember
having the privilege of being part of on a tennis court.
She subsequently won that match, won the next match, and
actually went on to win the tournament I can remember correctly.
She beat Anka Huber in the final, So she beat
some really high profile players, highly ranked players at the time.
(07:52):
So first tournament back and I umpired the final as
well that week, And yeah, I think, you know, on
a personal level, on a human level, that's the match
that sticks out for me more so than anything else.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, a nice full circle to do her first match
in her last match at the tournament as well.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
That's pretty special here, absolutely very very special.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
And five AO finals that's amazing. Obviously we're very interested
in that because we're an AO podcast. So I think
was your last one Hingus and Martinez in ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
It was that was my last ever match in the
chair as an umpire.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Wow, And another also incredible story to watch Hingus's rise.
I mean, she had such a fantastic time here at
the AO. Did you do her ninety seven final as well.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Oh you're testing me now, I think I did. Okay,
I think I did. I did out of the I
did five out of six years.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
At that stage I also unpied Martina Hingis's first ever
professional match, which is in Zurich when she was fourteen,
and I can remember then there were so many players, coaches,
tournament staff, tour stuff. Everybody wanted to come out and see,
you know, what this female was all about. And obviously
(09:08):
she went on she won that match and impaired a
lot of her matches, a lot of her finals throughout
her career.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So at the time that was pretty significant that you
were a gold bad Jumphie, because you were only one
of two women who were at that level at that time,
and you've told us that kind of maybe you didn't
recognize the significance of that at the time, but now
that you think about it, that actually was a really
big deal.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
It was, and I think coming into officiating, obviously there
were a handful of high profile female role models in
tennis officiating, but there were certainly a lot more males
compared to females. It was tough and especially breaking through
to umpiring men's matches. As a female, there were really
(09:52):
really not that many of us, so it was it
was tough to break through. We found it very different
being females ampiring men's matches compared to women's matches, and sometimes,
funnily enough, some of the tougher male players, maybe sort
(10:12):
of lower ranked or challenger players responded differently and may
I say even possibly better behaved when there were females
in the chair, which is always quite interesting. And when
I look back now, I'm very very proud of that achievement,
you know, hopefully forging the way for female officials and
(10:35):
giving upcoming female officials somebody to look up to. One
of my passions now is you know, mentoring and helping
other officials, because I know when I came through, I
had some outstanding women. Georgina Clark, who was a former
longtime WTA supervisor and a cheir umpire prior to that.
(10:56):
Also Pat Walker, who was from New South Wales who
was originally a chair umpire and then she was the
chief umpire at the time when we all started officiating.
She was very much an advocate of giving young officials
an opportunity and giving other females opportunities. In one of
my roles at WTA tournaments, I have the wonderful job
(11:19):
of fulfilling ticket requests. So about twenty years ago, I
was doing the ticketing for Indian Wells and we had
a request from our then COO for some of his family,
which included a young twelve year old girl by the
name of Madison Shoemaker. Anyway, so I met Scott and
(11:41):
Mary and the parents and Maddie and her brother, and
apparently after we'd been chatting for a bit, she turned
around to a paris and said, I want to be
like her. So she remembers my walkie talkie and my
credentially anything. Anyway, she went on to play collegiate tennis,
went on to become an intern with the WTA and
has held a number of roles within the WTA rankings, coordinator,
(12:04):
tour operations. Last weekend she passed her Silver Badge referee
school and is now a WTA supervisor. Oh wow, that's
probably my most prolific story, especially somebody so young to
see a female role model in the sport that she loves.
And she took her twenty years, but she's achieved her dream.
(12:29):
And I could not be more proud. It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Congratulations. Is it that diversity or is there something else
that makes it so special that has kept you in
the role for so long, because clearly it has been
really rewarding.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
It's the opportunity I think for me now, particularly the
longer I'm involved, to feel as though you're helping to
make a difference. Because all of the players who are
competing now on the WTA Tour I've known since they
started their journey on the tour, and when players first
come to play a tur or level, I think one
(13:02):
of the biggest responsibilities we have is educating them on
the rules, on the procedures, you know, feeling that it's
it's a safe space to walk into the w TA office,
that we're not scary. Yes, sometimes we have to make
tough decisions or decisions that individual players don't necessarily agree with,
particularly around scheduling. However, we need to fulfill a lot
(13:30):
of different requests, particularly in scheduling between the players, the
tournament's international broadcast, domestic broadcast, et cetera. And also look
to to schedule with parity and looking at the overall tournament. Yeah,
but again, forming, you know, meaningful working relationships with players,
(13:56):
coaches and their their players, support teams and feeling like
you're you're helping, you share their you witness their their
joys and their celebrations. You're there also at times when
you know they have disappointments, whether it's through loss or injury,
but just to be able to feel like we're helping.
(14:17):
Similarly with the tournaments, because we service the tournaments as well,
part of our responsibility is to share best practices. If
we see something that a tournament does really well that
we think another tournament you could learn from, then we're
coming forth with suggestions. We're you know, we're writing lengthy
(14:38):
reports at the end of the tournament with player feedback,
stuff feedback. So, yeah, every day is different, every week
is different. We start off with a template that we follow,
so we know, you know, every tournament has a certain
daw size, a certain schedule, timings that you adhere to,
whether it be the signings, the stuff out of play,
(15:01):
start of different sessions, and then you know culminates with
the finals at the end of the week. So you
sort of go on this bit of a rollercoaster journey,
particularly at the Slams too, being there you know, three
three and a half weeks. For me, there's that incredible
buzz and excitement day one, main draw of a Grand
(15:22):
Slam that it never gets old. But I also still
love the travel, going to new places. Oftentimes we'll go
back to the same places year after year after year,
which is something that for many tournaments they love having
the continuity of the same supervisor. But also if I'm
(15:43):
going back to the same tournament, I know who to
go to to get things done. I know who's responsible
for you know, the locker rooms, the transport, the accreditation,
et cetera. Who to go to with a specific issue,
and you know, we almost pick come part of the
tournament team for that week. Do you have.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Favorite places to travel or favorite tournaments?
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I certainly do. My favorite place is to travel Paris
and New York, great cities. Don't ask me to choose
between the two because that's almost impossible. In terms of
favorite tournaments and destinations as well on the tour. Do
you buy an Indian Wells? Two of my favorite spots
(16:28):
Indian Wells. If you've ever been there, you know the
desert a couple of hours from La surrounded by snow
capped mountains and palm trees, and there's just this feeling
of serenity out there, and I think that transcends into
the tournament itself. D Youbai just I love the city.
I love the yeah, phenomenal level of service. Anywhere you
(16:52):
go the hotel is on site, so no transport needed
to get to work, just walk past the duck pond
in the morning. So I mean every tournament. I went
back to Rome this year for the first time in
twenty one years, so it was great to see how
that had hadn't changed in some aspects and some areas
(17:16):
that had not changed at all. So yeah, I love
the variety. And for me also there's that finite start
and finish of a tournament, so when you do conclude
the event, it's like, you know, hopefully, job well done,
move on to the next one. Although in saying that,
(17:38):
I'm already in preparation mode. I'm currently working on Brisbane, AO,
Dubai and Indian Worlds for next year.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
And then in January, well next month I'll start working.
I'm going back to Berlin for the first time in
more than twenty years, so excited to go there. Already
started some discussions around Roland Garros. Yeah, so it's continuous,
amazing advice.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Now you are famous for your shoe collection. Can we
talk about your shoes please?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Of course you can. There's something that started quite a
while bag. I'm one of these people you know, either post,
you know, post something fun, post something nice, or don't
post anything at all. And I do have a love
of shoes, so I would often take a photo of
my shoes after i'd unpacked them lined up in the
(18:29):
hotel room. And for example, these are the successful shoes
that have been, you know, chosen for the twenty twenty
five Australian Open or something silly like that. So then
that sort of take it off and I'll get to
tournaments sometimes and friends will say to me, where's your
shoe photo? I haven't seen your shoe photo online yet.
(18:50):
Or I've seen other friends, often male, who might post
a photo of their you know, three pairs of shoes
that they're looking to the tournament when I've got about twelve.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
I am trying to be a bit more cognizant of
what I'm packing and you know, trying to scale down
a little bit, but it doesn't always happen. I like
being if I'm at a tournament for two weeks or
three weeks. I like to have options learnly. Yeah, plast
drive cleaning is very expensive.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So also your your shoe fans would be very disappointed.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, they don't want to be seeing the shoe collection
whittling down.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I I'm one of those fans. It's funny. And again,
you know, we sometimes you just need to have a
sense of humor about different things. And you know, we're
not saving lives, but we we sometimes are doing things
that are very very serious, and we certainly take our
role serious. But if you can have a little bit
(19:49):
of fun along the way, then you know, then why not.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
What makes the cut on finals day? Like is there
is there the shoe that's like the special occasion shoe
or the big match shoe. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
It depends what surface.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Oh, of course, yes.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So for example, when working at Wimbledon as a Grand
Slam supervisor, I would always show my shoes to the
head groundsmen to make sure that they were suitable, and
that became a little bit of a joke between us
as well, like are these you know, are these shoes
okay to wear on center court? And because you obviously
you don't want to use to Letto's and put divots
(20:24):
in the court if you have to run on the court.
But yeah, there's there's qualifying shoes as main draw shoes,
as final stay shoes. There you know, black tie gala shoes,
not where we go to many of them. But yeah,
people are noticing that there's a lot more ballet flats
and sneakers coming into the collection compared two years ago.
(20:48):
But that's you know, that's the fashion though, isn't it
so exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
You said in terms of what you do day to day,
sometimes you get to watch a bit of tennis. We've
actually seen you on TV a courtside it some incredible
matches when you do get that little bit of time
to watch tennis, And because you've been in the sport
for so long, you must have seen some incredible matches
and moments and highlights. And I just we're just wondering
what have stuck with you?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Oh my goodness, if I had to think when Pat
Rafter won his first US Open, oh yeah, which was
again nineteen ninety seven, I was able to watch that
as a spectator because I knew that I had, you know,
I'd unpied the Ladies final which is before that, I've
(21:32):
been to a couple of Davis Cup ties where I've
had no involvement working and been able to watch and not.
I wouldn't say, you know, I don't overly support because
we're just in the habit of not clapping and not
showing emotion.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
But yeah, similar, yes, I.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Would say I'm clapping on the inside, so you know,
but it's very very rare that you get an opportunity
to watch and through the eyes of a spectator.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
We remember pats yours open wing. Well, I remember that
even being late for school, Mum, let us stay until
the ended clinch match point. Then it's like right in
the car I got to go to school that Yeah,
we were allowed to watch that. It was amazing, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Well, it's been an incredible career that you have constructed, Donna.
You must be well, you should be so so proud
of everything that you've achieved in tennis. And I imagine
it's one that you would recommend to other people.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I would certainly recommend a career in tennis, whether it's
you know, as an official, as a supervisor, or in
any other aspect. And I think what we've see too
is that there are so many more and varied roles
in working in tennis, you know, than there were if
you even if you go back, you know, ten twenty years,
(22:49):
there are so many new roles for anybody who loves
the sport and particularly who loves to travel and meet people.
And yeah, highly highly recommended.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Well, lots of great takeaways from that interview. One of
them for me is I will never feel guilty about
overpacking again.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, we need to take it from the best in
the business. And yeah, I think it's an outfit for
every occasion. I like Donna's advice.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You can never have too many pairs of shoes. But also,
Donna has featured in so many memorable moments for the sport,
especially in recent women's tennis history. So wasn't it amazing
to hear some of her stories of those experiences.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, it's so great that she's been a great role
model and inspiration to people. But one thing I loved
hearing was that just it felt fitting that her final
match in the chair as a gold bad jumpire was
at her home Grand Slam, in a Grand Slam final.
It's kind of like the pinnacle of umpiring, So that
was lovely.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
It is the pinnacle of umpiring, and I guess particularly
special because I think many Australians have been inspired by
Donna's path and I think many women as well.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah for sure. Well, we'll be back again next week
with another episode of The Sea Down, but in the meantime,
you can listen to John and Brie and the team
this Thursday on the Aoshow Weekly.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Details for how to contact us are in the show notes,
and please subscribe, rate and review. See you next week, Matt,
See you en vib
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