December 1, 2024 • 22 mins
It's been almost a year since John Millman retired from professional tennis at AO 2024, drawing the curtains on an impressive 15-year playing career. The former world No.33 sits down with Todd Woodbridge to discuss his enjoyment of rediscovering a stable lifestyle and reconnecting with family and friends — two things he seldom experienced during his decade-and-a-half on the tour. Yet the Queenslander also reveals how the rhythm of international travel was baked into his DNA, which he has since countered by keeping himself busy with a return to study. Millman also shares his career highlights, including his famous 2018 win over Roger Federer to reach the US Open last eight, and his pride at representing Australia —particularly his Davis Cup debut against Belgium in 2017 and as Aussie No.1 during the team’s win over Brazil in 2020.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the sit Down. I'm viv Christine,
Managing editor of Australian Tennis Magazine, and.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm matrolopartiforozopen dot Com and Viv. Why are we sitting
down this week with John Milman.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Well, it's been almost a year since John Milman played
his last professional match at AO twenty twenty four. Always
a big favorite with the fans and with the media
as well. Everyone always loves to hear what he's been
up to and we wanted to check in on his
year in retirement.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
So Australian doubles great Todd Woodbridge actually did this interview
with John and Todd's one of our colleagues now, so
let's hear what they had to chat about.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
It's a pleasure to be able to welcome John Milman.
Tell us how are things going in retirement?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Thanks for having me. Things a big different. It's definitely
a change of pace. I've up here in Brisbane and
it's been nice. It's been really nice to get off
the road, reacquaint yourself with friends and family. As you know,
Todd mife as a professional tennis blower, especially in Australian
one travel up to ten and a half months a year,
and towards the end of your career, you do look
(01:05):
forward to having a bit more stability and being back
home and having that stability up here in Brisbane has
been perfect.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Once you get it, though, are you comfortable with it?
Because the transition is difficult.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
It's super difficult.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
I remember when I was finishing up and the one
thing I was going to look forward to is to
get out of that structure and to get out of
those that monotony of the routines, you know, going to
the courts, warming up, doing your your rehab, your prehab,
hitting and rinse and repeat day after day after day
for year after year after year.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
So I really thought that.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I would love to escape that structure. But I found
out pretty quickly that that structure is something that's part
of my DNA now.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
So it is a difficult little process.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
It's really about finding yourself and I really used the
time to like I did my tennis career, to really
give myself up with as many tools as possible. I'm
back doing a little bit of study in the hope
that it'll help that transition process and I can offer,
you know, hopefully some different skills and expertise outside of
(02:12):
the tennis court.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Let's talk a little bit about at the start of
your tennis career, obviously a Brisbane boy, and how did
it come about that you got yourself into tennis. My
understanding is that it was a lot to do with
your parents and family.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah, it was it ed Mum and dad. Originally they
weren't your traditional tennis families. They didn't grow up playing themselves,
but my sisters did.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
My old man he played in the National Soccer League
back in the day.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Towards the end of his football green he was a
school teacher too, But towards the end of his football
career when he was playing in one of the local
Queensland clubs, part of his contract was to build a
tennis court in our backyard. We had a bit of
akery Joe rim Shelton, so I had that in the
backyard as a really young bid, and I had this
old ball machine that I'd kind of all down the
(03:00):
heel and the bush and hook that up and you'd
see me down there playing for hours on end. I
often joked that I probably peaked as a four year
old because I was the youngest four year old at
the local tennis club, last tennis center to play fixtures there,
and I honestly think that I was probably the best
four year old in the world. So unfortunately for me,
(03:22):
my career peaked as a four year old went downhill
from there. But I had such a good time and
my earliest memories were getting out on the court, whether
that be with the sisters or mates, but especially by myself.
And later on in my career I actually found out
that that was probably a skillet itself to be able
to spend hours on the court without your parents or
(03:44):
your coaches or your mates around. I really could amuse
myself by hitting tennis balls up against the wall, up
against the ball machine, or hitting serves.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So for the best four year old in the world,
it's not an easy journey. As we all know, there's
a roller coaster that's about to happen in your career.
And as you get through juniors and you're coming along
through where was the moment where you started to think,
I can actually make a career out of this. And
I don't know if there was a moment for you
(04:13):
in time when you've got to maybe some futures and
you're playing its and you're out there, when did you go, Yes,
I can make money and I can have a great career.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Well that the making money part that took a long time.
Speaker 6 (04:28):
You've got a little story about that. I'd love to hear.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
It, to think if I could make some money. But
it was always something that I wanted to do. Having't parents'
school so yeah, having parents as school teachers, there was
always an emphasis on John, you have to go to school.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
So I did all my schooling.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
So it's a slightly different journey to a fair few
of my pdios, even some of my Australian piers who
did the distance education and ended up doing that whole
junior world circuit without playing junior Wimbledon's and your Junior
US Opens. But I took a different path, and probably
a little bit was that to do with my parents
not really understanding the tennis environment. They didn't realize how
(05:09):
many players played across the world and how good you
had to be, so I was probably a bit of
a disadvantage early on, but definitely in the back of
my mind when I finished high school, I wanted to
give it a crack. But on the other hand, I
didn't want my parents to go and have to re
mortgage their house. They were providers for our family. They
were five jobs between them to send myself and my
(05:30):
sisters to private school.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
So the one thing I was.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Really aware of was the fact that they've made so
many sacrifices. Me chasing and dreaming was going to be
on my back and my shoulders. So about eighteen years old,
I'd just finished school and I packed up my bags
and like many other aspiring tennis players, you go to
Europe because that's where all the tournaments are.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
My first tournament, one of my first tournaments.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I should say, was in life le I remember catching
about six different planes to get there. As you know Todd,
you're trying to find the cheapest ticket and that means
a lot of stopovers and a lot of different airline carriers.
I find out that Malia is actually at the top
of Africa, so that added another flight to the journey,
and I was playing there and back then. These are
ten thousand dollar futures, so this is the lowest of
(06:21):
the low but you have to play them. If you're unraked,
you have to play that to get those valuable ranking points.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
And I got.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Through qualifying, had to win four matches just to get
through qualifying your up against these Spaniards and these Europeans
that have their coach there. And I lost first round,
but I was pretty chucked. This is when I was
going to pick up my first professional prize money check
in a rock up, you know, shoulders back, feeling pretty
good about myself to prize money office, and the check
(06:49):
was to eighty euros. And I realized then and there,
todd that that eighty euros was not going to cover
too many of the expenses. But it was a dream
of mine. It was a dream of mine to really
give it a crack. Obviously, so many moments where you're
going to have those those moments of self doubt, and
that happens. Tennis is brutal. Everyone loses every single week
(07:10):
except for one person. But bit by beard I improved.
There was adversity along the way with injuries that eventually
I managed to make a career of it and got
to do what I loved and what got to do
what I wanted to always do as a kid growing up,
which was to play on the biggest stage, on the
biggest courts in the world.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
We're talking about that you've gone from, you know, the
top of Africa, battling it out in difficult circumstances, and
then you talk about the top courts in the world.
For me, that moment for you was the US Open.
And there's one player that pops up in your.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
Well.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
For me, your memory is Roger Federer. Now, I had
Pete Samprass back in my day and I got a
win over him, and you know when he finished, he
was the goat in your career. Roger was the goat
and you get a win over him. Extraordinary, really when
you look back on it, to beat him on Arthur
(08:11):
Ash Stadium at the US Open.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Tell us about that experience.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And then I want another couple of questions, if I may,
about Roger to you.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, I mean, I mean I never envisaged after that
match that I'd be talking about Roger so much. But
I can understand it right because he transcended our sport
the way he went about it. His elegance is artist
artistry on the court and the way he handled himself
off the court. He speaks about six different languages. He's
just a really class individual. I'd played him a few
(08:42):
times before, but obviously you're about to blame him in
the round of sixteen on Arthur Ash, which is the
biggest stadium that we have in men's and women's tennis.
I think it holds about twenty six thousand people. It
is absolutely huge. In fact, when you're warming up there,
I remember hitting with Andy it might have been at
that on them earlier on. And one of the things
(09:02):
you do at arthur Ash the roofs open, is you
grab a ball at the end of the session you
try to hit it out of the stadium. And I
don't know one person that's managed to do so. It
is like it is just such a big stadium. So
you're warming up before the TV screens are on, and
you know there's Ana con giving your zero chance and
(09:23):
all the pundits and rightly so. I mean, Roger was,
as you've touched on, one of the greatest evors to
do it. So yeah, look, it's just really interesting you
go out there. And the one thing against Roger was
that I wasn't going to play his reputation.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
I was lucky enough to play multiple times before and instead.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Of playing you know his name, well, I wanted to
play the man and I was very aware of that.
Another thing that you would know, Todd is when you're
at Arthur ash or even in the States in general.
At New York, the crowd is a very very unique one.
They're not necessarily engaged in the match. If the match
(10:02):
isn't giving them a reason to be engaged. They're they're
having a bit of a good time. They're drinking, they're
taking their selfies, they're making sure they've got the Instagram
posts up and running, and they're not really engaged in
the match. And it was about after I've won the
second so I was down a set in five three
and Roger was playing some pretty good tenets. I managed
to turn the tables in that second set, and towards
(10:25):
the end of the third set, I remember changing the
ends and all of a sudden, the crowds started to
really hush, and that constant chatter that you heard kind
of disappeared, and they started playing every single point with
you or against you, most of the time against me.
Roger Federer had the home support even in Australia when
(10:46):
I was up against him.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
He had the home support wherever he went.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
But I really recognized that moment and I started to
believe that if the crowd thinks there might be a
bit of an upset. I should be believing there could
be a bit of an upset, and as the match
wore on, I kind of got stronger physically.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
It's hot there.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
It was a really hot summer in the States that year,
and people don't know the Flushing Meadow is actually built
in swamplands, so it creates this really humid environment if
the conditions are right for that, which is not too
dissimilar to Australia. To Brisbane, I should say, where the
summer you get those really afternoon storms with all that humidity,
(11:28):
so custom made for myself. I thought Roger was starting
to struggle physically, and as the match went on, I
went stronger and stronger.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
And the stars aligned. Unfortunately for me.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
After the match, you know, you go and look at
the drawer and you've got Novak Djokovic in the quarter finals,
so it didn't get any easier for me.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
But it was a thrill.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
It really doesn't matter to have that victory on that
court in a slam. Not many players were able to
do it, and you almost pulled it off once again
at the Australian Open. You were so close in a
fifth set battle there. The other question I had for
you is that your game style? You know, gritty, determined baseliner.
At times there seemed like an invisible line that you
didn't want to cross to come forward to the net.
(12:09):
You know, I had to commentate a lot on your matches.
I get in, John, get in please.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
But didn't have the skill set that was the problem.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
But you knew your strengths and your mentality and your
fitness and your backed all of that.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
But how is it that Federer.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Could be any player in the world, but you gave
him trouble? What gave him trouble in playing your style?
Speaker 6 (12:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (12:32):
I think a few things.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I think first and foremost, having had experiences in the
past playing against him and having some success really helped me.
Brisbane inter National twenty fifteen. I was up a set
and a break there, came really close to knocking him
off there. And I think that illusion of Roger Better,
or that illusion of one of these superstars, you kind
(12:55):
of start to really believe in yourself that you know,
this guy is amazing, but I can beat him, you know,
if he has a slightly off day and I'm really on,
I can. I think these players can win so many
matches on reputation alike. So I think that that really helped.
But also I think Roger really sets up his game
(13:16):
stob with that back end slice. I think he's got
a great back end slice, and a lot of players
will drop that one a little bit short or can't
quite penetrate and cut sideline off that slice. And as
soon as you go a little bit central with him,
he's so quick to get around and use his fourhands
and really start opening you up. And that opens up
so much landscape for him.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
All of a sudden. He can use his am girls,
he can get in, he can use his hands at
the net.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
We know how good of a bollier he was, So
I think that I never really struggled with that. My
two handed back end was always quite solid. I felt
as if I used a lot of left hand on
my two handed back end, which meant I could get
underneath the slice and really kind of cut sideline off
that shot, which I think he's not really used to it,
and he was used to to play as more going
(14:05):
middle corridor against him and out of that fourhand wing.
This sounds a bit silly and maybe I'm completely wrong,
but I felt as if that Roger, because of the
array of weaponry that he had and how graceful he
made the game look.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
And even when you.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Practice with him, he'll go one or two and then
he'll try to do like a little back spinning drop shot,
or a little short sly or some like slap fourhand
cross court winner. He wants to try different things. And
I felt as if if I could repeat these patterns
and with quality, because you have to have it with quality.
(14:44):
I felt as if you could almost ball Roger, and
eventually he tried to do something that wasn't quite on.
And I know that sounds silly, and I might talk
to Roger or Severn and I might be completely off
the mark, but at least that's what I felt, and
I think that that's really yeah, And I think that's
a really really good thing to have that clarity when
you're out there. And I think when you can start
(15:06):
seeing these little vulnerabilities, even if it might not be
the case, but if you think that they exist, it
actually goes a long way to going on beating him. Obviously,
I had another chance at the Australian Open, and it's
only in my retirement Todd that I can sit back there.
I was up eight four in that fifth set tiebreaker,
and I don't think you ever want to let.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Any negative thoughts go into your mind.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
You have to get over lost a quickly in tennis,
and I think you have to get over loss as
quickly in life, and you know, rub yourself off and
go again.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
So I managed to convince myself that I didn't do
really anything wrong.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
It was Roger Betterer that pulled it out after being
eight four down and myself helve eight four up. But
I can probably look back that now and go, look,
I've probably choked that one away. And it's taken me
since retirement that I can do that and admit those
little vulnerabilities within myself.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Well, I still think an incredible effort.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
We've got about five minutes left, so we need to
talk about representing Australia Davis Cup, wearing the green and gold,
and that first moment that you get selected in a
Davis Cup team.
Speaker 6 (16:09):
What was that like for you?
Speaker 5 (16:11):
The best feeling ever?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
As you could tell Todd, I've not normally lost for words,
but I was that time. It was a semifinals match
in the old format that I know you and I
both love, even when it's an away tie like that
it's perhaps even better because you're going into this hostile
environment and that.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
You ever play in your career and you remember, you
remember them because of that, even the losses, but the
victories are better from my experience.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
And we're going into Brussels in the semifinals. It's an
indoor stadium court and it's on the heaviest, slowest dirt
that you've ever played, So for most Australians that does
not suit.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
But on the Wednesday before the.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Tie starts on Friday, Layton and Jason kind of pulled
me into the back room and I'm here thinking I
probably missed out again, maybe even though I was playing
some pretty good tennis, and Layton told me, John, we
want you to play day one against GoF On and
like I said Todd, I was lost for words and
I was incredibly proud. I also think that playing for
(17:16):
your country is your greatest opportunity to represent the people
back home that put you in that position, to get
you out onto that court. Tennis is often seen as
an individual sport, but there's so many wiles that are
turning behind the scenes to give you that chance and
to give you that moment, whether that's with the Federation,
(17:39):
or whether that's with your private coach or your.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Friends and family who have picked you up when you've
fallen down.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
And I felt as if that when I got to
play in the Green and go, this is my chance
to represent them. So I was incredibly proud. I love
David Scuff. I just love being with the boys. I
love being with the team. I love picking Tody Roach's brain.
I think that there should be stadiums named after Roachie
he is and it has been a storeward in men's
(18:05):
and women's tennis, but particularly later on in his career
in men's tennis for the Australian lads, having him on
the sideline, having him at dinner, I mean I would
fly today down to Sydney to just talk to him
for five minutes and hear his stories and hear his
advice in life in general.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
I loved it.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
And having Late on the sidelines too. Actually on the
court sometimes it's intimidating because you want to do so
much for your captain and you know how great of
a player he was. I mean I grew up watching
Late and to be able to share the court with
him in his team is incredibly special, and you know
I just love it. And you can see that with
(18:44):
the boys right now. You can see how much they
enjoy getting together as teams. Why we've had so much
success more recently because they love being in that environment.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
They love playing for the country.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
Favorite match that you can recall for whatever reason.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
That's a funny one because everyone probably jumps to to,
you know, the Roger.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Federer one, but Cup in that moment, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Davis, I know David's Cup definitely.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Actually in Adelaide, we had a couple of injuries, so
Alex demn.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Or couldn't play.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
He was coming back from from an ab tear and
so I was the number one Australian player at the time,
so I got to lead the team and I managed
to win. We're up against Brazil and I managed to
win my first one after I should have lost. I
think I think Diego Sea both bil served for it.
(19:41):
I managed to and he was playing some great Tennessee
he just won of his first tour event. I managed
to turn that one around unfortunately, and Tom I played incredible.
We lost the doubles so after in my mind I
thought we were going to win that doubles match. Admittedly,
and it's really hard then in the space of ten
minutes to kind of pick yourself up and go, Okay,
(20:03):
it's time to go. Let's win this for the country.
And I managed to play against a very good friend
of mine and I got up seven six in the
third set against Iago and Monteiro, and it was just
such an awesome feeling to be given that responsibility from
(20:24):
Layton and Roachi. The fact that they backed you and
believed in you to lead the team and to be
able to do so seven to six in that deciding
match was really really special and something that I remember
for a long time.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
At the drive, well done, And finally, to wrap things up,
I want to say to you, congratulations on a fantastic career.
I know that you are going to go on and
do many good things. I know you're studying business and
various things at the moment, but our sport isn't going
to lose you. Excellent in the commentary box, excellent in
selling our sport to the world, and I know you're
(21:00):
going to be at the forefront of actually being a
part of the generation that helps the next one or
two come along. So congratulations, enjoy retirement. I know it's
not that easy in the first year or two.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
No, thanks for having me. And you know, tennis is
such a great community. I with Utat. I was at
the Tennis Queensland Awards night and gave me such a
thrill and it was such an honor to be with
that community. It's been a very big part of my
life and hopefully a very big part of my life
moving forward to I love the community and thanks for
(21:33):
making tennis tier.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
So it was great to hear how John obviously thrived
in an individual sport but always considered it a team effort.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, and what a great talker. I think he even
alluded to that in the chat. You know, I've never
lost for words, or he said something like that in
the interview. And I always love with tennis players when
they've had time and space to kind of reflect on
big career moments, when they talk about it with some
distance and years between them. So yeah, when he relived
that win over Federer and how he got nearly very
close again at AO, and some of his great memories
(22:06):
from playing Davis Cup, Like, he did have a phenomenal
career and it's an absolute testament to him because he
dealt with so many injury problems, so it was wonderful
to see what he ultimately achieved.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah, he's a very insightful speaker, I would say so.
I do hope that we hear lots of him over
the Australian summer.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Absolutely, we'll be back again next Monday when we sit
down with another guest on the sit Down. But in
the meantime, you can listen to John Bree and the
team this Thursday on the AO Show.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Weekly details for how to contact us are in the
show notes and please subscribe, rate and review.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
See you next week, Matt, see it then, Viv
Hello and welcome to the sit Down. I'm viv Christine,
Managing editor of Australian Tennis Magazine, and.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm matrolopartiforozopen dot Com and Viv. Why are we sitting
down this week with John Milman.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Well, it's been almost a year since John Milman played
his last professional match at AO twenty twenty four. Always
a big favorite with the fans and with the media
as well. Everyone always loves to hear what he's been
up to and we wanted to check in on his
year in retirement.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
So Australian doubles great Todd Woodbridge actually did this interview
with John and Todd's one of our colleagues now, so
let's hear what they had to chat about.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
It's a pleasure to be able to welcome John Milman.
Tell us how are things going in retirement?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Thanks for having me. Things a big different. It's definitely
a change of pace. I've up here in Brisbane and
it's been nice. It's been really nice to get off
the road, reacquaint yourself with friends and family. As you know,
Todd mife as a professional tennis blower, especially in Australian
one travel up to ten and a half months a year,
and towards the end of your career, you do look
(01:05):
forward to having a bit more stability and being back
home and having that stability up here in Brisbane has
been perfect.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Once you get it, though, are you comfortable with it?
Because the transition is difficult.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
It's super difficult.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
I remember when I was finishing up and the one
thing I was going to look forward to is to
get out of that structure and to get out of
those that monotony of the routines, you know, going to
the courts, warming up, doing your your rehab, your prehab,
hitting and rinse and repeat day after day after day
for year after year after year.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
So I really thought that.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I would love to escape that structure. But I found
out pretty quickly that that structure is something that's part
of my DNA now.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
So it is a difficult little process.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
It's really about finding yourself and I really used the
time to like I did my tennis career, to really
give myself up with as many tools as possible. I'm
back doing a little bit of study in the hope
that it'll help that transition process and I can offer,
you know, hopefully some different skills and expertise outside of
(02:12):
the tennis court.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Let's talk a little bit about at the start of
your tennis career, obviously a Brisbane boy, and how did
it come about that you got yourself into tennis. My
understanding is that it was a lot to do with
your parents and family.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah, it was it ed Mum and dad. Originally they
weren't your traditional tennis families. They didn't grow up playing themselves,
but my sisters did.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
My old man he played in the National Soccer League
back in the day.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Towards the end of his football green he was a
school teacher too, But towards the end of his football
career when he was playing in one of the local
Queensland clubs, part of his contract was to build a
tennis court in our backyard. We had a bit of
akery Joe rim Shelton, so I had that in the
backyard as a really young bid, and I had this
old ball machine that I'd kind of all down the
(03:00):
heel and the bush and hook that up and you'd
see me down there playing for hours on end. I
often joked that I probably peaked as a four year
old because I was the youngest four year old at
the local tennis club, last tennis center to play fixtures there,
and I honestly think that I was probably the best
four year old in the world. So unfortunately for me,
(03:22):
my career peaked as a four year old went downhill
from there. But I had such a good time and
my earliest memories were getting out on the court, whether
that be with the sisters or mates, but especially by myself.
And later on in my career I actually found out
that that was probably a skillet itself to be able
to spend hours on the court without your parents or
(03:44):
your coaches or your mates around. I really could amuse
myself by hitting tennis balls up against the wall, up
against the ball machine, or hitting serves.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So for the best four year old in the world,
it's not an easy journey. As we all know, there's
a roller coaster that's about to happen in your career.
And as you get through juniors and you're coming along
through where was the moment where you started to think,
I can actually make a career out of this. And
I don't know if there was a moment for you
(04:13):
in time when you've got to maybe some futures and
you're playing its and you're out there, when did you go, Yes,
I can make money and I can have a great career.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Well that the making money part that took a long time.
Speaker 6 (04:28):
You've got a little story about that. I'd love to hear.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
It, to think if I could make some money. But
it was always something that I wanted to do. Having't parents'
school so yeah, having parents as school teachers, there was
always an emphasis on John, you have to go to school.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
So I did all my schooling.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
So it's a slightly different journey to a fair few
of my pdios, even some of my Australian piers who
did the distance education and ended up doing that whole
junior world circuit without playing junior Wimbledon's and your Junior
US Opens. But I took a different path, and probably
a little bit was that to do with my parents
not really understanding the tennis environment. They didn't realize how
(05:09):
many players played across the world and how good you
had to be, so I was probably a bit of
a disadvantage early on, but definitely in the back of
my mind when I finished high school, I wanted to
give it a crack. But on the other hand, I
didn't want my parents to go and have to re
mortgage their house. They were providers for our family. They
were five jobs between them to send myself and my
(05:30):
sisters to private school.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
So the one thing I was.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Really aware of was the fact that they've made so
many sacrifices. Me chasing and dreaming was going to be
on my back and my shoulders. So about eighteen years old,
I'd just finished school and I packed up my bags
and like many other aspiring tennis players, you go to
Europe because that's where all the tournaments are.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
My first tournament, one of my first tournaments.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I should say, was in life le I remember catching
about six different planes to get there. As you know Todd,
you're trying to find the cheapest ticket and that means
a lot of stopovers and a lot of different airline carriers.
I find out that Malia is actually at the top
of Africa, so that added another flight to the journey,
and I was playing there and back then. These are
ten thousand dollar futures, so this is the lowest of
(06:21):
the low but you have to play them. If you're unraked,
you have to play that to get those valuable ranking points.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
And I got.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Through qualifying, had to win four matches just to get
through qualifying your up against these Spaniards and these Europeans
that have their coach there. And I lost first round,
but I was pretty chucked. This is when I was
going to pick up my first professional prize money check
in a rock up, you know, shoulders back, feeling pretty
good about myself to prize money office, and the check
(06:49):
was to eighty euros. And I realized then and there,
todd that that eighty euros was not going to cover
too many of the expenses. But it was a dream
of mine. It was a dream of mine to really
give it a crack. Obviously, so many moments where you're
going to have those those moments of self doubt, and
that happens. Tennis is brutal. Everyone loses every single week
(07:10):
except for one person. But bit by beard I improved.
There was adversity along the way with injuries that eventually
I managed to make a career of it and got
to do what I loved and what got to do
what I wanted to always do as a kid growing up,
which was to play on the biggest stage, on the
biggest courts in the world.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
We're talking about that you've gone from, you know, the
top of Africa, battling it out in difficult circumstances, and
then you talk about the top courts in the world.
For me, that moment for you was the US Open.
And there's one player that pops up in your.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
Well.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
For me, your memory is Roger Federer. Now, I had
Pete Samprass back in my day and I got a
win over him, and you know when he finished, he
was the goat in your career. Roger was the goat
and you get a win over him. Extraordinary, really when
you look back on it, to beat him on Arthur
(08:11):
Ash Stadium at the US Open.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Tell us about that experience.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And then I want another couple of questions, if I may,
about Roger to you.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, I mean, I mean I never envisaged after that
match that I'd be talking about Roger so much. But
I can understand it right because he transcended our sport
the way he went about it. His elegance is artist
artistry on the court and the way he handled himself
off the court. He speaks about six different languages. He's
just a really class individual. I'd played him a few
(08:42):
times before, but obviously you're about to blame him in
the round of sixteen on Arthur Ash, which is the
biggest stadium that we have in men's and women's tennis.
I think it holds about twenty six thousand people. It
is absolutely huge. In fact, when you're warming up there,
I remember hitting with Andy it might have been at
that on them earlier on. And one of the things
(09:02):
you do at arthur Ash the roofs open, is you
grab a ball at the end of the session you
try to hit it out of the stadium. And I
don't know one person that's managed to do so. It
is like it is just such a big stadium. So
you're warming up before the TV screens are on, and
you know there's Ana con giving your zero chance and
(09:23):
all the pundits and rightly so. I mean, Roger was,
as you've touched on, one of the greatest evors to
do it. So yeah, look, it's just really interesting you
go out there. And the one thing against Roger was
that I wasn't going to play his reputation.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
I was lucky enough to play multiple times before and instead.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Of playing you know his name, well, I wanted to
play the man and I was very aware of that.
Another thing that you would know, Todd is when you're
at Arthur ash or even in the States in general.
At New York, the crowd is a very very unique one.
They're not necessarily engaged in the match. If the match
(10:02):
isn't giving them a reason to be engaged. They're they're
having a bit of a good time. They're drinking, they're
taking their selfies, they're making sure they've got the Instagram
posts up and running, and they're not really engaged in
the match. And it was about after I've won the
second so I was down a set in five three
and Roger was playing some pretty good tenets. I managed
to turn the tables in that second set, and towards
(10:25):
the end of the third set, I remember changing the
ends and all of a sudden, the crowds started to
really hush, and that constant chatter that you heard kind
of disappeared, and they started playing every single point with
you or against you, most of the time against me.
Roger Federer had the home support even in Australia when
(10:46):
I was up against him.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
He had the home support wherever he went.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
But I really recognized that moment and I started to
believe that if the crowd thinks there might be a
bit of an upset. I should be believing there could
be a bit of an upset, and as the match
wore on, I kind of got stronger physically.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
It's hot there.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
It was a really hot summer in the States that year,
and people don't know the Flushing Meadow is actually built
in swamplands, so it creates this really humid environment if
the conditions are right for that, which is not too
dissimilar to Australia. To Brisbane, I should say, where the
summer you get those really afternoon storms with all that humidity,
(11:28):
so custom made for myself. I thought Roger was starting
to struggle physically, and as the match went on, I
went stronger and stronger.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
And the stars aligned. Unfortunately for me.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
After the match, you know, you go and look at
the drawer and you've got Novak Djokovic in the quarter finals,
so it didn't get any easier for me.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
But it was a thrill.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
It really doesn't matter to have that victory on that
court in a slam. Not many players were able to
do it, and you almost pulled it off once again
at the Australian Open. You were so close in a
fifth set battle there. The other question I had for
you is that your game style? You know, gritty, determined baseliner.
At times there seemed like an invisible line that you
didn't want to cross to come forward to the net.
(12:09):
You know, I had to commentate a lot on your matches.
I get in, John, get in please.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
But didn't have the skill set that was the problem.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
But you knew your strengths and your mentality and your
fitness and your backed all of that.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
But how is it that Federer.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Could be any player in the world, but you gave
him trouble? What gave him trouble in playing your style?
Speaker 6 (12:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (12:32):
I think a few things.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I think first and foremost, having had experiences in the
past playing against him and having some success really helped me.
Brisbane inter National twenty fifteen. I was up a set
and a break there, came really close to knocking him
off there. And I think that illusion of Roger Better,
or that illusion of one of these superstars, you kind
(12:55):
of start to really believe in yourself that you know,
this guy is amazing, but I can beat him, you know,
if he has a slightly off day and I'm really on,
I can. I think these players can win so many
matches on reputation alike. So I think that that really helped.
But also I think Roger really sets up his game
(13:16):
stob with that back end slice. I think he's got
a great back end slice, and a lot of players
will drop that one a little bit short or can't
quite penetrate and cut sideline off that slice. And as
soon as you go a little bit central with him,
he's so quick to get around and use his fourhands
and really start opening you up. And that opens up
so much landscape for him.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
All of a sudden. He can use his am girls,
he can get in, he can use his hands at
the net.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
We know how good of a bollier he was, So
I think that I never really struggled with that. My
two handed back end was always quite solid. I felt
as if I used a lot of left hand on
my two handed back end, which meant I could get
underneath the slice and really kind of cut sideline off
that shot, which I think he's not really used to it,
and he was used to to play as more going
(14:05):
middle corridor against him and out of that fourhand wing.
This sounds a bit silly and maybe I'm completely wrong,
but I felt as if that Roger, because of the
array of weaponry that he had and how graceful he
made the game look.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
And even when you.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Practice with him, he'll go one or two and then
he'll try to do like a little back spinning drop shot,
or a little short sly or some like slap fourhand
cross court winner. He wants to try different things. And
I felt as if if I could repeat these patterns
and with quality, because you have to have it with quality.
(14:44):
I felt as if you could almost ball Roger, and
eventually he tried to do something that wasn't quite on.
And I know that sounds silly, and I might talk
to Roger or Severn and I might be completely off
the mark, but at least that's what I felt, and
I think that that's really yeah, And I think that's
a really really good thing to have that clarity when
you're out there. And I think when you can start
(15:06):
seeing these little vulnerabilities, even if it might not be
the case, but if you think that they exist, it
actually goes a long way to going on beating him. Obviously,
I had another chance at the Australian Open, and it's
only in my retirement Todd that I can sit back there.
I was up eight four in that fifth set tiebreaker,
and I don't think you ever want to let.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Any negative thoughts go into your mind.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
You have to get over lost a quickly in tennis,
and I think you have to get over loss as
quickly in life, and you know, rub yourself off and
go again.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
So I managed to convince myself that I didn't do
really anything wrong.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
It was Roger Betterer that pulled it out after being
eight four down and myself helve eight four up. But
I can probably look back that now and go, look,
I've probably choked that one away. And it's taken me
since retirement that I can do that and admit those
little vulnerabilities within myself.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
Well, I still think an incredible effort.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
We've got about five minutes left, so we need to
talk about representing Australia Davis Cup, wearing the green and gold,
and that first moment that you get selected in a
Davis Cup team.
Speaker 6 (16:09):
What was that like for you?
Speaker 5 (16:11):
The best feeling ever?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
As you could tell Todd, I've not normally lost for words,
but I was that time. It was a semifinals match
in the old format that I know you and I
both love, even when it's an away tie like that
it's perhaps even better because you're going into this hostile
environment and that.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
You ever play in your career and you remember, you
remember them because of that, even the losses, but the
victories are better from my experience.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
And we're going into Brussels in the semifinals. It's an
indoor stadium court and it's on the heaviest, slowest dirt
that you've ever played, So for most Australians that does
not suit.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
But on the Wednesday before the.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Tie starts on Friday, Layton and Jason kind of pulled
me into the back room and I'm here thinking I
probably missed out again, maybe even though I was playing
some pretty good tennis, and Layton told me, John, we
want you to play day one against GoF On and
like I said Todd, I was lost for words and
I was incredibly proud. I also think that playing for
(17:16):
your country is your greatest opportunity to represent the people
back home that put you in that position, to get
you out onto that court. Tennis is often seen as
an individual sport, but there's so many wiles that are
turning behind the scenes to give you that chance and
to give you that moment, whether that's with the Federation,
(17:39):
or whether that's with your private coach or your.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Friends and family who have picked you up when you've
fallen down.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
And I felt as if that when I got to
play in the Green and go, this is my chance
to represent them. So I was incredibly proud. I love
David Scuff. I just love being with the boys. I
love being with the team. I love picking Tody Roach's brain.
I think that there should be stadiums named after Roachie
he is and it has been a storeward in men's
(18:05):
and women's tennis, but particularly later on in his career
in men's tennis for the Australian lads, having him on
the sideline, having him at dinner, I mean I would
fly today down to Sydney to just talk to him
for five minutes and hear his stories and hear his
advice in life in general.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
I loved it.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
And having Late on the sidelines too. Actually on the
court sometimes it's intimidating because you want to do so
much for your captain and you know how great of
a player he was. I mean I grew up watching
Late and to be able to share the court with
him in his team is incredibly special, and you know
I just love it. And you can see that with
(18:44):
the boys right now. You can see how much they
enjoy getting together as teams. Why we've had so much
success more recently because they love being in that environment.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
They love playing for the country.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
Favorite match that you can recall for whatever reason.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
That's a funny one because everyone probably jumps to to,
you know, the Roger.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Federer one, but Cup in that moment, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Davis, I know David's Cup definitely.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Actually in Adelaide, we had a couple of injuries, so
Alex demn.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Or couldn't play.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
He was coming back from from an ab tear and
so I was the number one Australian player at the time,
so I got to lead the team and I managed
to win. We're up against Brazil and I managed to
win my first one after I should have lost. I
think I think Diego Sea both bil served for it.
(19:41):
I managed to and he was playing some great Tennessee
he just won of his first tour event. I managed
to turn that one around unfortunately, and Tom I played incredible.
We lost the doubles so after in my mind I
thought we were going to win that doubles match. Admittedly,
and it's really hard then in the space of ten
minutes to kind of pick yourself up and go, Okay,
(20:03):
it's time to go. Let's win this for the country.
And I managed to play against a very good friend
of mine and I got up seven six in the
third set against Iago and Monteiro, and it was just
such an awesome feeling to be given that responsibility from
(20:24):
Layton and Roachi. The fact that they backed you and
believed in you to lead the team and to be
able to do so seven to six in that deciding
match was really really special and something that I remember
for a long time.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
At the drive, well done, And finally, to wrap things up,
I want to say to you, congratulations on a fantastic career.
I know that you are going to go on and
do many good things. I know you're studying business and
various things at the moment, but our sport isn't going
to lose you. Excellent in the commentary box, excellent in
selling our sport to the world, and I know you're
(21:00):
going to be at the forefront of actually being a
part of the generation that helps the next one or
two come along. So congratulations, enjoy retirement. I know it's
not that easy in the first year or two.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
No, thanks for having me. And you know, tennis is
such a great community. I with Utat. I was at
the Tennis Queensland Awards night and gave me such a
thrill and it was such an honor to be with
that community. It's been a very big part of my
life and hopefully a very big part of my life
moving forward to I love the community and thanks for
(21:33):
making tennis tier.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
So it was great to hear how John obviously thrived
in an individual sport but always considered it a team effort.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, and what a great talker. I think he even
alluded to that in the chat. You know, I've never
lost for words, or he said something like that in
the interview. And I always love with tennis players when
they've had time and space to kind of reflect on
big career moments, when they talk about it with some
distance and years between them. So yeah, when he relived
that win over Federer and how he got nearly very
close again at AO, and some of his great memories
(22:06):
from playing Davis Cup, Like, he did have a phenomenal
career and it's an absolute testament to him because he
dealt with so many injury problems, so it was wonderful
to see what he ultimately achieved.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah, he's a very insightful speaker, I would say so.
I do hope that we hear lots of him over
the Australian summer.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Absolutely, we'll be back again next Monday when we sit
down with another guest on the sit Down. But in
the meantime, you can listen to John Bree and the
team this Thursday on the AO Show.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Weekly details for how to contact us are in the
show notes and please subscribe, rate and review.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
See you next week, Matt, see it then, Viv
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