June 9, 2024 • 30 mins
As the tours pivot from clay to grass, former Queen's Club tournament director Stephen Farrow sits down with Matt and Viv to reveal how he entered the tennis industry and rose to oversee one of the world's most historic events. Now living in Australia in his role as tournament director of the innovative United Cup, the British native recalls some of his most memorable moments across his career in tennis, and envisages an exciting future for the sport.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the sit Down.
I'm Matrolope, a writer for oz open dot com, and.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm viv Christy, Australian tennis magazine managing editor, and Matt.
As attention turns from clay to grass, we caught up
with Stephen Farrow. Tell us more about that interview.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
So, Stephen is a former tournament director of the Queen's
Club Championships and is now tournament director of the United Cup.
So it was really interesting hearing his experiences going from
such a traditional, historic event like Queen's to a new
innovative event on the calendar in the United Cup, and
as well we got to talk to him about tennis
in the UK, tennis on grass and some of his
highlights working in that space.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Perhaps you could.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Start by taking us back to your very first start
in tennis.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Yeah, so, I qualified as a lawyer many many years
ago and went to work for the Lawn Tennis Association
in the UK, so obviously the governing body of tennis
over there, and became very heavily involved in the event's
side of the business. The LTA runs primarily in terms
of professional events, all the pre Wimbledon tournaments we have
some well they have some sort of role on Wimbledon
(01:07):
as well. It's primarily about those events and just over
time ended up getting more and more involved and was
very close with Chris Kermod who was the tournament director
of Queens for many years went on to run the ATP.
When he moved on to run the ATP, I was
asked to take over at Queens and then over time
that expanded to the rest of the LTA's tournaments as well.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
The grass court season is a very unique time of
the year. What, in your opinion, sets grass court tennis apart.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
For me, it's the sense of heritage and history and
the romance and visually it looks so different and if
you look at the places where it's played back in
the UK, and also there's some great events now in
Germany and Holland and Spain as well. Often they take
place in clubs, Wimbledon obviously being the biggest one of all,
(01:56):
Queens being another one, and there is just that that
sort of that sense of history which I think grass
court tennis really brings. And it's where tennis started as well.
You look at the I mean the tennis Australia was
previously Lawn Tenni Association of Australia i TF was the
International Lawn Tennis Federation, and so there is that sense
(02:16):
of connection with the roots of tennis which sort of
sets it apart. And also in terms of what it's
like to experience and watch as well, it's it's quick,
it's a bit more unpredictable, and it's a very short
and intense season as well, which I think means that
it's there's probably even more of a focus on it
as a result, and with Wimbledon as the pinnacle as well,
(02:37):
it's a it's an amazing time with the tennis calendar.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And I'm assuming that you've had a chance to actually
play on grass yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I have.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
I mean, what I found since I've been in Australia,
which is really interesting, is that there are so many
grass courts here. And I've spent quite a lot of
time in Perth through the United Cup, and I'm blown
away by the number of grass courts that you have
in Western Australia. It's like everywhere you go you've got
clubs for fifteen, sixteen, eighteen grass courts. I was at
King's Park quite recently in Perth and it's unbelievable venue
(03:06):
there and there's so many so grasscourt tennis, if anything,
in Australia is stronger than it is back home. I
think on a recreational level there are less and less
clubs who are able to sustain grass courts. Obviously, the
weather's not as good as it is here, so that
grass court season is so much shorter. But in terms
of me personally, I mean growing up, yeah, we had
grass courts at my university which used to play on.
(03:28):
I mean the problem there was that we had a
lot of molehills and foxes and things like that to
deal with, so it wasn't quite the manicured lawns that
we enjoy at Queen's Club or Wimbledon.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Amazing who have been some of your favorite players to
watch competing on grass?
Speaker 4 (03:43):
I think growing up, I mean you grow up in
the UK and it's all about Wimbledon. So I think
when I was really getting into watching and enjoying tennis,
Queens and Wimbledon would be on the BBC and sometimes
Eastbourne and so you'd watch those events and it was
such an annual ritual to enjoy to enjoy those events
when they came round.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So I so I suppose for me, I mean, it was.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
A period of relative lack of success for British players,
and I remember when Jeremy Bates got to the fourth
round of Wimbledon twice I think ninety two and ninety four.
It was an absolutely massive deal, which in retrospect with
what came next with Tim Herman, with Andy and obviously
Emma Radacane with the US Open, but talking about the
grass court events with what came next to it sort
(04:26):
of somehow feels slightly ridiculous now, but at the time
that was such a big deal. But I always loved
stephie Graff as well. I used to love watching her
at Wimbledon. Obviously she had a lot of success Martina
and Alvarattelova and then and then obviously as I got older.
I mean, Tim Herman was obviously such a superstar back
home and is a is a player who again because
(04:46):
of the success that Andy then had in terms of
Grand Slam success, people often don't really reflect on what
a great player he was as well and how important
he was for British tennis, and those semi finals that
he lost at Wimbledon were were huge occasions and crushingly
disappointing obviously two thousand and one when Ivanisovitch beat him
(05:07):
on his way to beating Pat Rafter as well, which
I'm sure was disappointing here in Australia as well, but
that was crushingly disappointing for us back home.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah we remember that year.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well, yeah, that was the Monday Final, the People's Final.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
So Stephen Hearing, how you got into tennis as like
on the legal side with the LTA. Were you a
tennis fan and you saw an opportunity to get into
tennis and work in an industry you loved or kind
of how what was that entry point?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
I wanted to work in sport and the opportunity came
up to go and work at the LTA. But what
I would say is that I was always a tennis fan,
but I wouldn't say I was a tennis super fan.
So I would watch Wimbledon and i'd watch Queens on
the TV. I would watch the Grand Slams if they
were on free to air television, and you'd vaguely know
who'd won. But really it was primarily about those summer,
(05:53):
those UK summer events, and that was really my entry
through into tennis. But you know, the more you get
immerse in the world, the more to of your passion
and your interest grows. And you know, I think that's
definitely been the case. I've become more and more of
a tennis fan as I've got more and more involved
in it.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And that sounds like they're coincided with your time as
tournament director at Queens, which, if we've got the dates right,
we're twenty fourteen to twenty twenty. What was some of
the best memories you have of that time?
Speaker 4 (06:18):
All right, it's huge privilege to be involved in that tournament.
That club that I talked before about the sense of
history of the grasscourt season. I mean that club was
built in eighteen eighty six, open in eighteen eighty seven.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
It's named after Queen Victoria.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
You go to the grounds of the Queen's Club and
that sense of history is everywhere you look. I mean,
not least the pictures of the former members that are
up on the wall, which are some incredibly illustrious figures
throughout history, and then the tennis itself. So many great
players have won that title and it has such a
(06:52):
special place in the hearts of tennis fans. So to
have any sort of association with that event is a
real privilege and to have had the opportunity to lead
that event for a reasonable period of time was a
real honor and it was it was a real family
feel to that event as well, so there are lots
and lots of people who'd worked on it for years.
Our referee Jimmy Moore is Australian. He's passed now but
(07:15):
he was the referee a Queens for forty two years.
You know, we have with the guys who build the site.
When there's a guy called John Hester who's from the
north of Scotland who has come down for the last
thirty years in a caravan. He lives in this caravan
in the car park at Queen's Club while the site's
being built for six weeks every summer. We had the
same ball teachers doing the ball girls. The same people
(07:38):
have done it for sort of thirty or forty years
as well. So that sort of that family feel and
that sense of history is sort of everywhere you look
at that tournament and it really is a beautiful site,
the center court at Queens it's so iconic and we
were so proud of the experience that we could offer
everyone who came and most of all the players were
very much player focused and I think that's one of
(08:00):
the things which I find here at Tennis Australia as well.
And Craig will say about everything to do with the
Australian Open and all the events we do about putting
players first, and that was definitely our approach as well.
And I think as a result of that, the players
also pick up on that family feel and they're seeing
the same faces every year, and the bonds that you
then build with the players and their teams which keeps
them coming back year after year. It just means that
(08:21):
that event really matters and probably matters even more as
a result, which is really special to be a part of.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, definitely, here's so many stories like that in tennis,
of like the person that's been returning into the same
role for like thirty years, forty years. That happens a
lot here too. Last question about your time as tournament director.
What is a day in the life of a tournament
director or when it's tournament time during Queens just.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
A bit of everything really. I mean same here as well.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
You are dealing with players, you're dealing with broadcast, you've
got media commitments, you're dealing with sponsors. What I always
found at Queen's, which I've tried to sort of take
into the work I've done here around United Cup and
some of the other events, is Chris kerm had always
said to me that when you're the tournament director of Queens,
you're basically the host of the party. So you really
just need to go around and keep people's spirits up,
(09:09):
and you know, you find yourself clicking into this mode
where you know you're just going around and smiling and
chatting and shaking hands with people, and it can be
quite challenging at a tennis event, particularly when it comes
on a grass court tennis event, when you get the
rain and you know you've got a lot of impatient.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Players who are desperate to get out on court. You've
got a lot of.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Players who are nervous about the surface because the perception
is always that it's slippy. We don't have the floodlights,
so we can't play late, and so there's always some
issues like that you're sort of managing. But really, for me,
I always felt like I sort of enjoyed the challenges
that were then presented by that sort of situation.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
But from a tournament.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Director perspective, it's a bit of everything, and it's you know,
it's twenty four seven throughout that period where you're delivering
the event, but it's extremely rewarding and for me it
gave an opportunity really to be to have us a
very close few on some seeing these amazing athletes going
out there and delivering high quality tennis.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And certainly in my time at Queen's.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
We obviously had Andy Murray at the peak of his game,
which was just such a gift. I mean, to have
the most popular sports person in the UK play your sport.
He won it twice while I was tournament directe was
twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
He wont it for a record fifth time.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I mean, it just elevates everything, like the interest, the awareness.
We would have four million people watching it live on BBC.
If Andy didn't play, the audience would be lucky to
be a quarter of that. So really he really took
it to the next level.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
But we also it also, I.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Mean there were also some other amazing moments, and for
me it was always some of the less high profile
moments were the ones which I always found quite inspirational.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I remember Jeremy Shardy for years.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Used to say that Queens was his favorite tournament and
he'd never want to match there, and there were and
then he finally did and to see what that meant
to him. I remember back in twenty fifteen, we funnily enough,
through I built quite a lot of connections with a
lot of the Australian players. Obviously got such a massive
history at Queen's Club, and we gave Tinaski cocken Archis
(11:16):
a wildcard, gave him a wild card in twenty fifteen
and his grandmother was seriously ill, so he'd come back
to Australia and then he flew out and I think
he arrived at Queens on maybe it was the Saturday,
and he was playing on the Monday.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And then he went out and won.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
That match and it was actually it was incredibly moving
to see that and what it meant to him. He
then lost in the second round. Then he went through
injury hell for the next two years. Gave him another
wild card two years later and he came back and
beat Millos Ryanich in the first round and that was
amazing because so you know, you sort of feel there
as a tournament director, you've given someone the opportunity, and
(11:50):
you see what it means to them, so privileged to
have that opportunity to do that and to engage with
these players. And then the best example of all was
twenty nineteen, which ended up being my final year because
of COVID, when Felly Lopez had a wild card in
both singles and doubles and won both. And you know,
(12:11):
like the hair stands up when I talk about it,
because I feel like I know it's I know it's
only Queen's. I know it's an eight P five hundred.
I know it's not a Grand Slam, but as a
sporting achievement for him, aged thirty seven to win both titles,
and he was playing with Andy, I mean, which was
amazing enough that Andy won, but the fact that he
think I think the last twenty four hours of the tournament,
(12:33):
he was on court for eight of those twenty four hours.
At one point he was scheduled for four consecutive matches
on center court because he had because we had rain delays,
we were playing late. I mean, there were so many
opportunities there where you thought, oh, he's going to pull out,
or he's going to lose this one. This is ridiculous
and he just kept going and he was so tired
on that final day. He wasn't sitting down at the
change of ends and at the age of thirty seven.
(12:54):
And the wild cud that we gave Felly was because
you know, it's his last year and he's been people
love him here. He's a former champion. You know it's
going to lose first round, but it's a nice thing
to do, and for him to go through and win
was just extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Absolutely. So you know, you have these great experiences with
players as the tournament director. Are those relationships that you
have sustained with some of those players?
Speaker 4 (13:17):
Yeah, with some of them, I mean it's I still
find here. I mean I've been here for like, what
is it like nearly three years or two and a
half three years now. I still think some of the
players do a bit of a double take as to
what's the guy from Queen's doing here? But yeah, absolutely,
and I think some of those guys who were very
closely associated with Queen's, the likes of Grigor, I mean
(13:39):
Stanva Ringk used to come every year as well. I
mean he'd only got to the semi final once. Marion
Chilich as well, one of our champions has great history
with the event, and Felly as well.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I'm still in.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Touch with as long as as well as a lot
of the British players, and I think it's nice to
see how much those guys appreciate what we were trying
to do for them, and again like how special winning
that title was for them, that you still have that
type of relationship many years later.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Are there any moments or situations that stand out as
particularly challenging when you look back?
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Yeah, I mean I think I'd go back to what
I said before, when it's when the weather turns bad
and you know, you are going around trying to keep
people's spirits up, and you know, I've been in a
situation with some very high profile players who I won't name,
telling me that I'm just going to go, I just
fell up with this and we're not going to play today,
but I'm going to go it's going to rain all day,
(14:33):
and you're there thinking, well, actually, it particlarly known the
British summer weather. It could turn nice in an instant
and if you go and we restart play, you're going
to be defaulted, and what's that going to look like?
So I mean I've literally sat in the car with
a player begging them not to leave the site. And
I won't say who it was, but I mean it
was anyway, it was fine, It will worked out. But
(14:55):
those moments are quite challenging, and win the ups and
downs of the ornament as well. When you get players
who blame their defeat on the surface, it can get
quite challenging. You know, I've dealt with that a few times.
You just have to hear people out and be honest
and straight with them. Yeah, and we also, you know,
we've also had we've had some real characters play the
tournament as well, where where you have the ups under
(15:17):
downs with them. You know, some of them Australian but
you know we we again, you know we For me,
it's always about putting on the best show you possibly can.
So you want to see that personality. And you know,
Nick Kiros is one of my favorite favorite tennis players.
He was when he was at his best at Queen's
it was magnificent. You know, we had our ups and
(15:37):
downs a little bit sometimes, but I think for him
he was I mean, he's a massive asset to the
sport and he's a massive asset to our event, and
people wanted to watch him play, and he produced some
sensational tennis.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
But yeah, we had our moments.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You said earlier, you described it as like being the
host of the party. So Nick would be a great
person to have at any party.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I meant absolutely right, absolutely right, and always for me,
always so great to deal with, honestly throughout the event,
incredibly professional and when he actually when he actually delivered
his best tennis on court, I think it was the year.
Was it the year I think when Chilich beat Jokovic
in the final and Nick was playing outstanding tennis and
he lost narrowly in the semi final. I think it
(16:17):
was that year and he was his tennis was really
at such a high level, and it's it's well, hopefully
he can come back and get somewhere near that level.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Again.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
You mentioned Felly Lopez before, who won obviously two titles
at Queens. Why is it that some players do you
think have such great results on grass?
Speaker 4 (16:36):
I think historically you would say, if you've got a
good serve, if you've got a fast serve, and you
can nail that serve and volley style, which Felly certainly does,
and grig Or does as well, then that's going to help,
and I think Lly has and he's also left hander
as well, which I guess gives him another advantage. It's
it's managing that transition from clay to grass is also critical,
(16:59):
and you know you do get those players less so
recent more more recent years because the grass courts have
slowed over the years, but you know historically that that
switch from play to grass is so hard, and I
think you do get some players who often those players
who have gone further at ronand Graris then do struggle
a bit more with the transition. Someone like Felly would
get on the grass a lot, probably a bit sooner,
(17:21):
which would help him. But primarily, primarily it's if you
can get that serve volley game going, which which Felly
did even in the game it is today with the
courts at the speed they are today, then you've got
a You've got a great chance. And that was really
what Felly was able to do at Queens both times
he won, same with Grigor Millos Ryanich when he got
to the final of Queens and then Wimbledon in the
same year, which again was really special when you get
(17:43):
a player winning both in the same year as Alcaraz did.
More recently, you know, with the year that Ryanich got
to the final of Wimbledon, got to the final of Queens,
he was playing unbelievable sir volley tennis. I mean, he
was super fit. He had mce and Roe in his
box and that was thrilling to watch as well. So
I think it's it's that that's that's critical. Funnily enough,
(18:03):
actually we had during my time there, we had a
celebration of our four time champions, because that was the
record at the time. Layton was another one. Leyton was there,
We flew Roy Emerson over, we had mace and Roe there,
we had Becker there and Andy won his fifth that year,
so he became the record holder. And I was talking
to Roy Emerson about what it was like playing at
Queen's back in the day, and and all the Australian
(18:25):
players used to come play at Queens. But one of
the main reasons they used to spend so much time
there was because they would play indoor on the on
the on the wood indoors at Queens, which isn't there anymore.
Because it was so quick that it meant that by
the time they got to Wimbledon. Their sort of reactions
were at such a stage that it gave them an advantage.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
And he was talking to.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Me about he'd be there with Labor and all the
greats of that time. And that's primarily what so even
though they were out there playing on the grass at Queens,
they actually saw the best preparation for Wimbledon being played
on the on the indoor surface.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
In order to get ready for Wimbledon. We need to
do that. Bring Wood back about this, I think that
would be good.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
I love hearing these stories about the Aussie legends.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, I mean Roy Emerson what a legend. It was.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Really it was a privilege to have him at our event.
And like I said at the time, he was the
record champion. Of course, I'm sure Rod Labor would have
won more. He won two titles at Queens. I think
he would have won a lot more if he hadn't
turned professional, as did with his grands.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Titles as well. But Roy was a real legend of
Queen's Club.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I mean I used to talk to Jimmy Moore and
as well as with Roy when he was over a
lot about those legendary figures and what they used to
do when they used to come over. You know, they'd
spend months driving around the south of France playing in
all the clay court tournaments, and then they'd go over.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
To the UK.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
And of course back then when they were playing, when
there was no tour or anything formal tour, there were
big grass court events all over the country. You know,
they'd go over to Ireland and they play in Dublin,
they'd go to Sheffield, there were all these tournaments in
London and there was a there was a big history
of tournaments which now there's obviously very few in comparison.
But yeah, I mean that history and that association of
(20:00):
the Australian players with the tournaments in the UK so
is so strong and you can tell that it means
a lot. It means a lot to those players, and
you know it was it was also I mean later
here it's obviously another one I mentioned before who I
got to know initially through Queens and again is someone
who was a fantastic champion and was obviously hugely successful
on the grass.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I guess moving on then to your role now, which
is almost like the opposite as a tournament director. You've
gone from being TD of a very traditional historic event
to the United Cup, which is a new event on
the calendar and has a lot of innovation about it.
So what's that adjustment been like for you.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
It's been very exciting to be involved in an event
like the United Cup from the from the beginning as well.
So I think to be able to be involved with
the launch of this amazing new World Cup of Tennis,
bringing together the women and the men, it's it's an amazing
thing to be a part of. I mean, I would
actually say though, is that whilst and I think what
Tennis Australia has in its DNA through the Australian Open
(20:56):
and through the United Cup is this sense of innovation
and moving the sport forward. And one of the reasons
why when I was not working for this organization, you
always looked at Tennis Australian for what must be amazing
to go and work there, because look at what these
guys are doing. I used to watch the Australian Open
on television and you'd see the broadcast angles and go.
It just makes the sport look so really cool and
you can really see the difference there. So I think
(21:17):
great to be come and be part of an organization
which of which innovation is so important, and obviously through
the United Cup, both in terms of bringing the women
and the men together for points and prize money and
for the first time is.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Great and yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
What I would say though, is that so much of
the role is very very similar. Is that whilst there
is a difference in terms of what the product visually
looks like, obviously it's on hard court, it's not grass Scott.
I've argued with Craig about returning the Australian Open to grass.
He's not buying it. But the actually you are still
the host of the party though, so the role is
still about engaging with players. And what I find with
(21:53):
United Cup though, is that whilst players love being part
of it, it's a new event, so you're having to
sell it in It's not like our Queen's Oh no,
I know, Queen's cool. Yeah no, I do do that.
So you know, there's been an element of using our
roles and with andre Sis and the others on the
player side who I work with here, of really going
and saying what this really means and what it's like.
(22:13):
And I think the player experience we've managed to deliver
has been a really positive one in the first couple
of years. I think the event has got a fantastic future.
I think it's a really exciting format. I think it's
great for tennis to see the best male and female
players playing on the same team. And I'm really excited
about the future of it.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
So I'm assuming there are ways that when you're talking
about having to sell it into the players, those things
that you said, is that kind of the selling point?
How you pictured to them, Hey, you should be part
of this event because a basic yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
I mean, this is an opportunity to show a different
side of tennis. But I think that obviously we do
exist before a Grand Slam. So your fundamental question that
you need to answer is how is this going to
help me do my best in Melbourne's And we can't
ignore that. And so the fact that we guarantee at
least two matches where they were during that week, I
think is important from a player preparation perspective. But I
(23:05):
think more and more, particularly this year, I felt that
we really made a significant jump from the first year.
Change in format helped. I think the players can see
that what Australia brings an event like that is big
crowds and passionate crowds.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
You see, we have the Chileans in Sydney and I mean,
whilst there weren't loads of them, the noise that they
made was unbelievable. And there's all those different pockets of
different people from different countries that exist here, which means
that a tournament like that's got a great chance of succeeding.
And again, I feel like the level of the play
and the level of engagement both from the players and
(23:42):
the fans that we saw this year showed that very
quickly we've got an event that clearly really matters, and
so the reputation then just builds from there.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And obviously one of the great things about United Cup
is that mixed gender element to it, so we're seeing
that now next year with Queens, they're bringing tournament to Queens.
Now the women used to play in Queens, I believe,
and didn't for a while and now that's come back.
It's going to be a wto event followed by the
ATP event in twenty twenty five back to back week.
So are you kind of across how that all kind
(24:11):
of came to be and what does that mean for
the tournament when you're doubling it basically.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Funnily enough, I mean, as you said yourself, I mean
the women have a long history at Queen's as well,
so for many years it was a combined event back
in the day, and on the walls of the Queen's
Club where you've got your pictures of Labor and whoever else,
you've also got Margaret Court, and you've got Billy jan
King and you've got Chris Evert. I remember a few
years ago seeing a documentary about the Battle of the
(24:36):
Sexes and they interviewed Billy jan King and she's standing
at Queen's And so these players were used to going
to play at that venue. And the only reason that
the women moved away from Queens was because they went
and set up their own tournament in Eastbourne, which has
been a massively successful tournament for.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Over forty years, the week before the week before Wimbledon.
I think it's really exciting.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
The site at Queen's is too small to a ominate
a combined event, which would be the ideal. Really, we
looked at it during my time there as well, and
you just couldn't really make it work, and so look
to get two weeks of out of the out of
that venue and to give the women the platform to
come and play there is great. So I mean, I'm
all for it, and I think it's good. I think
(25:18):
I think it will be a great success and I
think it also you've still got Eastbourne there as well,
which is a very special event in its own right
and has its own place on the tennis calendar in
the UK as well, which I think is great.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
It's also good to peak your brain about this stuff
because you're a cross at all being a member of
the ADP Tournament Advisory Council.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
So we were That's correct, isn't it. Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, what does that entail because I don't think you've
on the sit down with you talk to somebody on
that council. Yeah, So what happens there and how does
that fold into your current role? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
So on the A t P and the WA side,
you have a player council and you have a tournament
Council who really are meant to represent both represent the
views of the other tournaments or the other players and
the player council side, but also so really to be
a sounding board for the board and the management of
those tours. In terms of what they might want to
be do, the changes they might want to be making,
all the issues that come up. So you know, we
(26:09):
meet four or five times a year, and there's been
some really interesting things that have been going on. I mean,
there's obviously been some changes to the tour with the
increasing size of the masses, events, with all sorts of
other things that have been looked at as part of
the widest strategic plan on the ATP side. So it's
an interesting group to be part of, and it's obviously
an interesting time in tennis right now as well.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, well definitely, I think that's where we're going to
conclude this conversation.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
It is an interesting time.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
As you said, what are you encourage about with the
future direction of tennis.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
I think fundamentally, it's about the talent that you've got
playing the sport, and then it's about how you show
off that talent in the best possible way. So from
a talent perspective, I think it's a really exciting time.
I know that we're moving on from this period where
you've had these absolute legends of sport, let alone tennis.
You know, if you've got Roger Federer coming to your
tournament you're going to sell out from the week, So
(27:00):
we've moved on from that. But the talent that's coming
through on both the men's side and the women's side
of the game, I think is really exciting. I think
it's a responsibility for all of us in tennis, though,
is to tell the story of those players, and I
still don't think we do good enough job all collectively
in order to be able to do that. Because some
of the ability and the level of tennis that we're
seeing on the court now, I think is at the
(27:22):
highest level I've ever seen, and I think we we
we've got a duty to be able to take that
to the maximum possible audience. I think tennis as a
whole can still go some way though, when it comes
to innovation.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I think the.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Tennis Australia's amazing job through the Australian Open, United Cup,
all the events Tennis Australia does in trying to make
tennis look different and engage better with audiences, and I
think I think there's more to come. I think we've
got to do something about the length of matches. I
know that's a really obvious boring point, but ways that
we can speed speed the sport up. I think it's
really important. These matches are getting longer and longer and longer,
(27:59):
and I don't think that's great. I think that there's
a there's ways of being a lot more coordinated in
terms of how tennis as a hole is being promoted.
But I think fundamentally, when you look at the talent
coming through, We've seen al KaAZ embodiment of charisma. We've
had Yanick Sinner here is such a beautiful player to watch,
(28:21):
IGAs Fiontek who just wins and wins and wins. I
mean she's obviously just smashing her way through the Roland
Garras right now. It's been brilliant for us at the
United Cup. I mean, these are great, These are great
talented athletes, great role role models.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
So I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
I've also been involved the last two years as the
tournament director of the AO Juniors event, which has been
really interesting for me because you sort of see that
the conveyor belt coming through as well, and you know
there are some you know Jiao Fonseca, the young Brazilian kid,
I mean he's incredible. I mean he's going to be
really really special who played the juniors a couple of
(28:55):
years ago. There's something There's an amazing crop of British
girls as well coming through as well. Hannah Klugman's one
we mus use another who we saw this year at
the juniors, and obviously Edmondson Jones getting to the final
of the juniors here as well. So I think there's
lots and lots of things to be excited about. But
I think we need to collectively work together to show
the sport in the best line.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
I think we need to continue to do that.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
We need to look at the example of other sports
as well, and those that innovate tend to be the
ones that succeed. And I don't think we should rest
on our laurels. There's a lot of tennis out there
and I think, you know, how we can work together
to make that the most engaging product possible is something
that we need to continue to do and Tennis Australia
really leads the way in doing that.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Well. I loved hearing Steven's reflections on some of the
Ousie legends and hearing about the parallels between Australia and
the UK in terms of grass court tennis. Great interview.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, I really enjoyed hearing all of his thoughts on
that and speaking of Australian tennis players. We're excited to
bring you new episodes of the sit Down in the
coming weeks with Australian tennis players who have thrived on grass,
which is perfect in the run up to Wimbledon. In
the meantime, you can listen to John and the team
on the Aoshow Weekly this Thursday, and as always, remember
to subscribe, rate and review. We'll see you next week, Viv, see.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
You next week.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Map
Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the sit Down.
I'm Matrolope, a writer for oz open dot com, and.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm viv Christy, Australian tennis magazine managing editor, and Matt.
As attention turns from clay to grass, we caught up
with Stephen Farrow. Tell us more about that interview.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
So, Stephen is a former tournament director of the Queen's
Club Championships and is now tournament director of the United Cup.
So it was really interesting hearing his experiences going from
such a traditional, historic event like Queen's to a new
innovative event on the calendar in the United Cup, and
as well we got to talk to him about tennis
in the UK, tennis on grass and some of his
highlights working in that space.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Perhaps you could.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Start by taking us back to your very first start
in tennis.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Yeah, so, I qualified as a lawyer many many years
ago and went to work for the Lawn Tennis Association
in the UK, so obviously the governing body of tennis
over there, and became very heavily involved in the event's
side of the business. The LTA runs primarily in terms
of professional events, all the pre Wimbledon tournaments we have
some well they have some sort of role on Wimbledon
(01:07):
as well. It's primarily about those events and just over
time ended up getting more and more involved and was
very close with Chris Kermod who was the tournament director
of Queens for many years went on to run the ATP.
When he moved on to run the ATP, I was
asked to take over at Queens and then over time
that expanded to the rest of the LTA's tournaments as well.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
The grass court season is a very unique time of
the year. What, in your opinion, sets grass court tennis apart.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
For me, it's the sense of heritage and history and
the romance and visually it looks so different and if
you look at the places where it's played back in
the UK, and also there's some great events now in
Germany and Holland and Spain as well. Often they take
place in clubs, Wimbledon obviously being the biggest one of all,
(01:56):
Queens being another one, and there is just that that
sort of that sense of history which I think grass
court tennis really brings. And it's where tennis started as well.
You look at the I mean the tennis Australia was
previously Lawn Tenni Association of Australia i TF was the
International Lawn Tennis Federation, and so there is that sense
(02:16):
of connection with the roots of tennis which sort of
sets it apart. And also in terms of what it's
like to experience and watch as well, it's it's quick,
it's a bit more unpredictable, and it's a very short
and intense season as well, which I think means that
it's there's probably even more of a focus on it
as a result, and with Wimbledon as the pinnacle as well,
(02:37):
it's a it's an amazing time with the tennis calendar.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And I'm assuming that you've had a chance to actually
play on grass yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I have.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
I mean, what I found since I've been in Australia,
which is really interesting, is that there are so many
grass courts here. And I've spent quite a lot of
time in Perth through the United Cup, and I'm blown
away by the number of grass courts that you have
in Western Australia. It's like everywhere you go you've got
clubs for fifteen, sixteen, eighteen grass courts. I was at
King's Park quite recently in Perth and it's unbelievable venue
(03:06):
there and there's so many so grasscourt tennis, if anything,
in Australia is stronger than it is back home. I
think on a recreational level there are less and less
clubs who are able to sustain grass courts. Obviously, the
weather's not as good as it is here, so that
grass court season is so much shorter. But in terms
of me personally, I mean growing up, yeah, we had
grass courts at my university which used to play on.
(03:28):
I mean the problem there was that we had a
lot of molehills and foxes and things like that to
deal with, so it wasn't quite the manicured lawns that
we enjoy at Queen's Club or Wimbledon.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Amazing who have been some of your favorite players to
watch competing on grass?
Speaker 4 (03:43):
I think growing up, I mean you grow up in
the UK and it's all about Wimbledon. So I think
when I was really getting into watching and enjoying tennis,
Queens and Wimbledon would be on the BBC and sometimes
Eastbourne and so you'd watch those events and it was
such an annual ritual to enjoy to enjoy those events
when they came round.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So I so I suppose for me, I mean, it was.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
A period of relative lack of success for British players,
and I remember when Jeremy Bates got to the fourth
round of Wimbledon twice I think ninety two and ninety four.
It was an absolutely massive deal, which in retrospect with
what came next with Tim Herman, with Andy and obviously
Emma Radacane with the US Open, but talking about the
grass court events with what came next to it sort
(04:26):
of somehow feels slightly ridiculous now, but at the time
that was such a big deal. But I always loved
stephie Graff as well. I used to love watching her
at Wimbledon. Obviously she had a lot of success Martina
and Alvarattelova and then and then obviously as I got older.
I mean, Tim Herman was obviously such a superstar back
home and is a is a player who again because
(04:46):
of the success that Andy then had in terms of
Grand Slam success, people often don't really reflect on what
a great player he was as well and how important
he was for British tennis, and those semi finals that
he lost at Wimbledon were were huge occasions and crushingly
disappointing obviously two thousand and one when Ivanisovitch beat him
(05:07):
on his way to beating Pat Rafter as well, which
I'm sure was disappointing here in Australia as well, but
that was crushingly disappointing for us back home.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah we remember that year.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well, yeah, that was the Monday Final, the People's Final.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
So Stephen Hearing, how you got into tennis as like
on the legal side with the LTA. Were you a
tennis fan and you saw an opportunity to get into
tennis and work in an industry you loved or kind
of how what was that entry point?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
I wanted to work in sport and the opportunity came
up to go and work at the LTA. But what
I would say is that I was always a tennis fan,
but I wouldn't say I was a tennis super fan.
So I would watch Wimbledon and i'd watch Queens on
the TV. I would watch the Grand Slams if they
were on free to air television, and you'd vaguely know
who'd won. But really it was primarily about those summer,
(05:53):
those UK summer events, and that was really my entry
through into tennis. But you know, the more you get
immerse in the world, the more to of your passion
and your interest grows. And you know, I think that's
definitely been the case. I've become more and more of
a tennis fan as I've got more and more involved
in it.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And that sounds like they're coincided with your time as
tournament director at Queens, which, if we've got the dates right,
we're twenty fourteen to twenty twenty. What was some of
the best memories you have of that time?
Speaker 4 (06:18):
All right, it's huge privilege to be involved in that tournament.
That club that I talked before about the sense of
history of the grasscourt season. I mean that club was
built in eighteen eighty six, open in eighteen eighty seven.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
It's named after Queen Victoria.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
You go to the grounds of the Queen's Club and
that sense of history is everywhere you look. I mean,
not least the pictures of the former members that are
up on the wall, which are some incredibly illustrious figures
throughout history, and then the tennis itself. So many great
players have won that title and it has such a
(06:52):
special place in the hearts of tennis fans. So to
have any sort of association with that event is a
real privilege and to have had the opportunity to lead
that event for a reasonable period of time was a
real honor and it was it was a real family
feel to that event as well, so there are lots
and lots of people who'd worked on it for years.
Our referee Jimmy Moore is Australian. He's passed now but
(07:15):
he was the referee a Queens for forty two years.
You know, we have with the guys who build the site.
When there's a guy called John Hester who's from the
north of Scotland who has come down for the last
thirty years in a caravan. He lives in this caravan
in the car park at Queen's Club while the site's
being built for six weeks every summer. We had the
same ball teachers doing the ball girls. The same people
(07:38):
have done it for sort of thirty or forty years
as well. So that sort of that family feel and
that sense of history is sort of everywhere you look
at that tournament and it really is a beautiful site,
the center court at Queens it's so iconic and we
were so proud of the experience that we could offer
everyone who came and most of all the players were
very much player focused and I think that's one of
(08:00):
the things which I find here at Tennis Australia as well.
And Craig will say about everything to do with the
Australian Open and all the events we do about putting
players first, and that was definitely our approach as well.
And I think as a result of that, the players
also pick up on that family feel and they're seeing
the same faces every year, and the bonds that you
then build with the players and their teams which keeps
them coming back year after year. It just means that
(08:21):
that event really matters and probably matters even more as
a result, which is really special to be a part of.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, definitely, here's so many stories like that in tennis,
of like the person that's been returning into the same
role for like thirty years, forty years. That happens a
lot here too. Last question about your time as tournament director.
What is a day in the life of a tournament
director or when it's tournament time during Queens just.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
A bit of everything really. I mean same here as well.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
You are dealing with players, you're dealing with broadcast, you've
got media commitments, you're dealing with sponsors. What I always
found at Queen's, which I've tried to sort of take
into the work I've done here around United Cup and
some of the other events, is Chris kerm had always
said to me that when you're the tournament director of Queens,
you're basically the host of the party. So you really
just need to go around and keep people's spirits up,
(09:09):
and you know, you find yourself clicking into this mode
where you know you're just going around and smiling and
chatting and shaking hands with people, and it can be
quite challenging at a tennis event, particularly when it comes
on a grass court tennis event, when you get the
rain and you know you've got a lot of impatient.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Players who are desperate to get out on court. You've
got a lot of.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Players who are nervous about the surface because the perception
is always that it's slippy. We don't have the floodlights,
so we can't play late, and so there's always some
issues like that you're sort of managing. But really, for me,
I always felt like I sort of enjoyed the challenges
that were then presented by that sort of situation.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
But from a tournament.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Director perspective, it's a bit of everything, and it's you know,
it's twenty four seven throughout that period where you're delivering
the event, but it's extremely rewarding and for me it
gave an opportunity really to be to have us a
very close few on some seeing these amazing athletes going
out there and delivering high quality tennis.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And certainly in my time at Queen's.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
We obviously had Andy Murray at the peak of his game,
which was just such a gift. I mean, to have
the most popular sports person in the UK play your sport.
He won it twice while I was tournament directe was
twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
He wont it for a record fifth time.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I mean, it just elevates everything, like the interest, the awareness.
We would have four million people watching it live on BBC.
If Andy didn't play, the audience would be lucky to
be a quarter of that. So really he really took
it to the next level.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
But we also it also, I.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Mean there were also some other amazing moments, and for
me it was always some of the less high profile
moments were the ones which I always found quite inspirational.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I remember Jeremy Shardy for years.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Used to say that Queens was his favorite tournament and
he'd never want to match there, and there were and
then he finally did and to see what that meant
to him. I remember back in twenty fifteen, we funnily enough,
through I built quite a lot of connections with a
lot of the Australian players. Obviously got such a massive
history at Queen's Club, and we gave Tinaski cocken Archis
(11:16):
a wildcard, gave him a wild card in twenty fifteen
and his grandmother was seriously ill, so he'd come back
to Australia and then he flew out and I think
he arrived at Queens on maybe it was the Saturday,
and he was playing on the Monday.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And then he went out and won.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
That match and it was actually it was incredibly moving
to see that and what it meant to him. He
then lost in the second round. Then he went through
injury hell for the next two years. Gave him another
wild card two years later and he came back and
beat Millos Ryanich in the first round and that was
amazing because so you know, you sort of feel there
as a tournament director, you've given someone the opportunity, and
(11:50):
you see what it means to them, so privileged to
have that opportunity to do that and to engage with
these players. And then the best example of all was
twenty nineteen, which ended up being my final year because
of COVID, when Felly Lopez had a wild card in
both singles and doubles and won both. And you know,
(12:11):
like the hair stands up when I talk about it,
because I feel like I know it's I know it's
only Queen's. I know it's an eight P five hundred.
I know it's not a Grand Slam, but as a
sporting achievement for him, aged thirty seven to win both titles,
and he was playing with Andy, I mean, which was
amazing enough that Andy won, but the fact that he
think I think the last twenty four hours of the tournament,
(12:33):
he was on court for eight of those twenty four hours.
At one point he was scheduled for four consecutive matches
on center court because he had because we had rain delays,
we were playing late. I mean, there were so many
opportunities there where you thought, oh, he's going to pull out,
or he's going to lose this one. This is ridiculous
and he just kept going and he was so tired
on that final day. He wasn't sitting down at the
change of ends and at the age of thirty seven.
(12:54):
And the wild cud that we gave Felly was because
you know, it's his last year and he's been people
love him here. He's a former champion. You know it's
going to lose first round, but it's a nice thing
to do, and for him to go through and win
was just extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Absolutely. So you know, you have these great experiences with
players as the tournament director. Are those relationships that you
have sustained with some of those players?
Speaker 4 (13:17):
Yeah, with some of them, I mean it's I still
find here. I mean I've been here for like, what
is it like nearly three years or two and a
half three years now. I still think some of the
players do a bit of a double take as to
what's the guy from Queen's doing here? But yeah, absolutely,
and I think some of those guys who were very
closely associated with Queen's, the likes of Grigor, I mean
(13:39):
Stanva Ringk used to come every year as well. I
mean he'd only got to the semi final once. Marion
Chilich as well, one of our champions has great history
with the event, and Felly as well.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I'm still in.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Touch with as long as as well as a lot
of the British players, and I think it's nice to
see how much those guys appreciate what we were trying
to do for them, and again like how special winning
that title was for them, that you still have that
type of relationship many years later.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Are there any moments or situations that stand out as
particularly challenging when you look back?
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Yeah, I mean I think I'd go back to what
I said before, when it's when the weather turns bad
and you know, you are going around trying to keep
people's spirits up, and you know, I've been in a
situation with some very high profile players who I won't name,
telling me that I'm just going to go, I just
fell up with this and we're not going to play today,
but I'm going to go it's going to rain all day,
(14:33):
and you're there thinking, well, actually, it particlarly known the
British summer weather. It could turn nice in an instant
and if you go and we restart play, you're going
to be defaulted, and what's that going to look like?
So I mean I've literally sat in the car with
a player begging them not to leave the site. And
I won't say who it was, but I mean it
was anyway, it was fine, It will worked out. But
(14:55):
those moments are quite challenging, and win the ups and
downs of the ornament as well. When you get players
who blame their defeat on the surface, it can get
quite challenging. You know, I've dealt with that a few times.
You just have to hear people out and be honest
and straight with them. Yeah, and we also, you know,
we've also had we've had some real characters play the
tournament as well, where where you have the ups under
(15:17):
downs with them. You know, some of them Australian but
you know we we again, you know we For me,
it's always about putting on the best show you possibly can.
So you want to see that personality. And you know,
Nick Kiros is one of my favorite favorite tennis players.
He was when he was at his best at Queen's
it was magnificent. You know, we had our ups and
(15:37):
downs a little bit sometimes, but I think for him
he was I mean, he's a massive asset to the
sport and he's a massive asset to our event, and
people wanted to watch him play, and he produced some
sensational tennis.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
But yeah, we had our moments.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You said earlier, you described it as like being the
host of the party. So Nick would be a great
person to have at any party.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I meant absolutely right, absolutely right, and always for me,
always so great to deal with, honestly throughout the event,
incredibly professional and when he actually when he actually delivered
his best tennis on court, I think it was the year.
Was it the year I think when Chilich beat Jokovic
in the final and Nick was playing outstanding tennis and
he lost narrowly in the semi final. I think it
(16:17):
was that year and he was his tennis was really
at such a high level, and it's it's well, hopefully
he can come back and get somewhere near that level.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Again.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
You mentioned Felly Lopez before, who won obviously two titles
at Queens. Why is it that some players do you
think have such great results on grass?
Speaker 4 (16:36):
I think historically you would say, if you've got a
good serve, if you've got a fast serve, and you
can nail that serve and volley style, which Felly certainly does,
and grig Or does as well, then that's going to help,
and I think Lly has and he's also left hander
as well, which I guess gives him another advantage. It's
it's managing that transition from clay to grass is also critical,
(16:59):
and you know you do get those players less so
recent more more recent years because the grass courts have
slowed over the years, but you know historically that that
switch from play to grass is so hard, and I
think you do get some players who often those players
who have gone further at ronand Graris then do struggle
a bit more with the transition. Someone like Felly would
get on the grass a lot, probably a bit sooner,
(17:21):
which would help him. But primarily, primarily it's if you
can get that serve volley game going, which which Felly
did even in the game it is today with the
courts at the speed they are today, then you've got
a You've got a great chance. And that was really
what Felly was able to do at Queens both times
he won, same with Grigor Millos Ryanich when he got
to the final of Queens and then Wimbledon in the
same year, which again was really special when you get
(17:43):
a player winning both in the same year as Alcaraz did.
More recently, you know, with the year that Ryanich got
to the final of Wimbledon, got to the final of Queens,
he was playing unbelievable sir volley tennis. I mean, he
was super fit. He had mce and Roe in his
box and that was thrilling to watch as well. So
I think it's it's that that's that's critical. Funnily enough,
(18:03):
actually we had during my time there, we had a
celebration of our four time champions, because that was the
record at the time. Layton was another one. Leyton was there,
We flew Roy Emerson over, we had mace and Roe there,
we had Becker there and Andy won his fifth that year,
so he became the record holder. And I was talking
to Roy Emerson about what it was like playing at
Queen's back in the day, and and all the Australian
(18:25):
players used to come play at Queens. But one of
the main reasons they used to spend so much time
there was because they would play indoor on the on
the on the wood indoors at Queens, which isn't there anymore.
Because it was so quick that it meant that by
the time they got to Wimbledon. Their sort of reactions
were at such a stage that it gave them an advantage.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
And he was talking to.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Me about he'd be there with Labor and all the
greats of that time. And that's primarily what so even
though they were out there playing on the grass at Queens,
they actually saw the best preparation for Wimbledon being played
on the on the indoor surface.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
In order to get ready for Wimbledon. We need to
do that. Bring Wood back about this, I think that
would be good.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
I love hearing these stories about the Aussie legends.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, I mean Roy Emerson what a legend. It was.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Really it was a privilege to have him at our event.
And like I said at the time, he was the
record champion. Of course, I'm sure Rod Labor would have
won more. He won two titles at Queens. I think
he would have won a lot more if he hadn't
turned professional, as did with his grands.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Titles as well. But Roy was a real legend of
Queen's Club.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I mean I used to talk to Jimmy Moore and
as well as with Roy when he was over a
lot about those legendary figures and what they used to
do when they used to come over. You know, they'd
spend months driving around the south of France playing in
all the clay court tournaments, and then they'd go over.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
To the UK.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
And of course back then when they were playing, when
there was no tour or anything formal tour, there were
big grass court events all over the country. You know,
they'd go over to Ireland and they play in Dublin,
they'd go to Sheffield, there were all these tournaments in
London and there was a there was a big history
of tournaments which now there's obviously very few in comparison.
But yeah, I mean that history and that association of
(20:00):
the Australian players with the tournaments in the UK so
is so strong and you can tell that it means
a lot. It means a lot to those players, and
you know it was it was also I mean later
here it's obviously another one I mentioned before who I
got to know initially through Queens and again is someone
who was a fantastic champion and was obviously hugely successful
on the grass.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I guess moving on then to your role now, which
is almost like the opposite as a tournament director. You've
gone from being TD of a very traditional historic event
to the United Cup, which is a new event on
the calendar and has a lot of innovation about it.
So what's that adjustment been like for you.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
It's been very exciting to be involved in an event
like the United Cup from the from the beginning as well.
So I think to be able to be involved with
the launch of this amazing new World Cup of Tennis,
bringing together the women and the men, it's it's an amazing
thing to be a part of. I mean, I would
actually say though, is that whilst and I think what
Tennis Australia has in its DNA through the Australian Open
(20:56):
and through the United Cup is this sense of innovation
and moving the sport forward. And one of the reasons
why when I was not working for this organization, you
always looked at Tennis Australian for what must be amazing
to go and work there, because look at what these
guys are doing. I used to watch the Australian Open
on television and you'd see the broadcast angles and go.
It just makes the sport look so really cool and
you can really see the difference there. So I think
(21:17):
great to be come and be part of an organization
which of which innovation is so important, and obviously through
the United Cup, both in terms of bringing the women
and the men together for points and prize money and
for the first time is.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Great and yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
What I would say though, is that so much of
the role is very very similar. Is that whilst there
is a difference in terms of what the product visually
looks like, obviously it's on hard court, it's not grass Scott.
I've argued with Craig about returning the Australian Open to grass.
He's not buying it. But the actually you are still
the host of the party though, so the role is
still about engaging with players. And what I find with
(21:53):
United Cup though, is that whilst players love being part
of it, it's a new event, so you're having to
sell it in It's not like our Queen's Oh no,
I know, Queen's cool. Yeah no, I do do that.
So you know, there's been an element of using our
roles and with andre Sis and the others on the
player side who I work with here, of really going
and saying what this really means and what it's like.
(22:13):
And I think the player experience we've managed to deliver
has been a really positive one in the first couple
of years. I think the event has got a fantastic future.
I think it's a really exciting format. I think it's
great for tennis to see the best male and female
players playing on the same team. And I'm really excited
about the future of it.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
So I'm assuming there are ways that when you're talking
about having to sell it into the players, those things
that you said, is that kind of the selling point?
How you pictured to them, Hey, you should be part
of this event because a basic yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
I mean, this is an opportunity to show a different
side of tennis. But I think that obviously we do
exist before a Grand Slam. So your fundamental question that
you need to answer is how is this going to
help me do my best in Melbourne's And we can't
ignore that. And so the fact that we guarantee at
least two matches where they were during that week, I
think is important from a player preparation perspective. But I
(23:05):
think more and more, particularly this year, I felt that
we really made a significant jump from the first year.
Change in format helped. I think the players can see
that what Australia brings an event like that is big
crowds and passionate crowds.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
You see, we have the Chileans in Sydney and I mean,
whilst there weren't loads of them, the noise that they
made was unbelievable. And there's all those different pockets of
different people from different countries that exist here, which means
that a tournament like that's got a great chance of succeeding.
And again, I feel like the level of the play
and the level of engagement both from the players and
(23:42):
the fans that we saw this year showed that very
quickly we've got an event that clearly really matters, and
so the reputation then just builds from there.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And obviously one of the great things about United Cup
is that mixed gender element to it, so we're seeing
that now next year with Queens, they're bringing tournament to Queens.
Now the women used to play in Queens, I believe,
and didn't for a while and now that's come back.
It's going to be a wto event followed by the
ATP event in twenty twenty five back to back week.
So are you kind of across how that all kind
(24:11):
of came to be and what does that mean for
the tournament when you're doubling it basically.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Funnily enough, I mean, as you said yourself, I mean
the women have a long history at Queen's as well,
so for many years it was a combined event back
in the day, and on the walls of the Queen's
Club where you've got your pictures of Labor and whoever else,
you've also got Margaret Court, and you've got Billy jan
King and you've got Chris Evert. I remember a few
years ago seeing a documentary about the Battle of the
(24:36):
Sexes and they interviewed Billy jan King and she's standing
at Queen's And so these players were used to going
to play at that venue. And the only reason that
the women moved away from Queens was because they went
and set up their own tournament in Eastbourne, which has
been a massively successful tournament for.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Over forty years, the week before the week before Wimbledon.
I think it's really exciting.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
The site at Queen's is too small to a ominate
a combined event, which would be the ideal. Really, we
looked at it during my time there as well, and
you just couldn't really make it work, and so look
to get two weeks of out of the out of
that venue and to give the women the platform to
come and play there is great. So I mean, I'm
all for it, and I think it's good. I think
(25:18):
I think it will be a great success and I
think it also you've still got Eastbourne there as well,
which is a very special event in its own right
and has its own place on the tennis calendar in
the UK as well, which I think is great.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
It's also good to peak your brain about this stuff
because you're a cross at all being a member of
the ADP Tournament Advisory Council.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
So we were That's correct, isn't it. Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, what does that entail because I don't think you've
on the sit down with you talk to somebody on
that council. Yeah, So what happens there and how does
that fold into your current role? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
So on the A t P and the WA side,
you have a player council and you have a tournament
Council who really are meant to represent both represent the
views of the other tournaments or the other players and
the player council side, but also so really to be
a sounding board for the board and the management of
those tours. In terms of what they might want to
be do, the changes they might want to be making,
all the issues that come up. So you know, we
(26:09):
meet four or five times a year, and there's been
some really interesting things that have been going on. I mean,
there's obviously been some changes to the tour with the
increasing size of the masses, events, with all sorts of
other things that have been looked at as part of
the widest strategic plan on the ATP side. So it's
an interesting group to be part of, and it's obviously
an interesting time in tennis right now as well.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, well definitely, I think that's where we're going to
conclude this conversation.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
It is an interesting time.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
As you said, what are you encourage about with the
future direction of tennis.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
I think fundamentally, it's about the talent that you've got
playing the sport, and then it's about how you show
off that talent in the best possible way. So from
a talent perspective, I think it's a really exciting time.
I know that we're moving on from this period where
you've had these absolute legends of sport, let alone tennis.
You know, if you've got Roger Federer coming to your
tournament you're going to sell out from the week, So
(27:00):
we've moved on from that. But the talent that's coming
through on both the men's side and the women's side
of the game, I think is really exciting. I think
it's a responsibility for all of us in tennis, though,
is to tell the story of those players, and I
still don't think we do good enough job all collectively
in order to be able to do that. Because some
of the ability and the level of tennis that we're
seeing on the court now, I think is at the
(27:22):
highest level I've ever seen, and I think we we
we've got a duty to be able to take that
to the maximum possible audience. I think tennis as a
whole can still go some way though, when it comes
to innovation.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I think the.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Tennis Australia's amazing job through the Australian Open, United Cup,
all the events Tennis Australia does in trying to make
tennis look different and engage better with audiences, and I
think I think there's more to come. I think we've
got to do something about the length of matches. I
know that's a really obvious boring point, but ways that
we can speed speed the sport up. I think it's
really important. These matches are getting longer and longer and longer,
(27:59):
and I don't think that's great. I think that there's
a there's ways of being a lot more coordinated in
terms of how tennis as a hole is being promoted.
But I think fundamentally, when you look at the talent
coming through, We've seen al KaAZ embodiment of charisma. We've
had Yanick Sinner here is such a beautiful player to watch,
(28:21):
IGAs Fiontek who just wins and wins and wins. I
mean she's obviously just smashing her way through the Roland
Garras right now. It's been brilliant for us at the
United Cup. I mean, these are great, These are great
talented athletes, great role role models.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
So I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
I've also been involved the last two years as the
tournament director of the AO Juniors event, which has been
really interesting for me because you sort of see that
the conveyor belt coming through as well, and you know
there are some you know Jiao Fonseca, the young Brazilian kid,
I mean he's incredible. I mean he's going to be
really really special who played the juniors a couple of
(28:55):
years ago. There's something There's an amazing crop of British
girls as well coming through as well. Hannah Klugman's one
we mus use another who we saw this year at
the juniors, and obviously Edmondson Jones getting to the final
of the juniors here as well. So I think there's
lots and lots of things to be excited about. But
I think we need to collectively work together to show
the sport in the best line.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
I think we need to continue to do that.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
We need to look at the example of other sports
as well, and those that innovate tend to be the
ones that succeed. And I don't think we should rest
on our laurels. There's a lot of tennis out there
and I think, you know, how we can work together
to make that the most engaging product possible is something
that we need to continue to do and Tennis Australia
really leads the way in doing that.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Well. I loved hearing Steven's reflections on some of the
Ousie legends and hearing about the parallels between Australia and
the UK in terms of grass court tennis. Great interview.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, I really enjoyed hearing all of his thoughts on
that and speaking of Australian tennis players. We're excited to
bring you new episodes of the sit Down in the
coming weeks with Australian tennis players who have thrived on grass,
which is perfect in the run up to Wimbledon. In
the meantime, you can listen to John and the team
on the Aoshow Weekly this Thursday, and as always, remember
to subscribe, rate and review. We'll see you next week, Viv, see.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
You next week.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
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