May 6, 2024 • 26 mins
Wim Fissette is on tour with Naomi Osaka again following the birth of her daughter Shai and subsequent return to the court. The Belgian coach believes the four-time Grand Slam champion and former world No.1 can reach even greater heights, and has room to grow on clay. Fissette joins Matt and Viv from Madrid to discuss her potential, and his passion for coaching over a 15-year career that has featured stints with other top-ranked major champions Kim Clijsters, Simona Halep, Victoria Azarenka, and Angelique Kerber.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the Sitdown. I'm Viv Christy from
Australian Tennis magazine and great to be joined by Matt
Trolope of oz open dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hey Matt, Hi, Viv, how are you doing.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm great, Thank you Great to be joining you again.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, it's always good. Another episode of the sit Down
this week and we got the chance to chat to
one of the game's most esteemed coaches. Tell us what's
in store for listeners today.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
We were lucky enough to talk to Wim Faset, who,
as you say, is a superstar of the coaching world.
He's coached the likes of Kim Kleister's, Victoria Azarenka, Simona
Hallop and Angelie Kerber and we caught up with Whim.
He talked about his current role, of course as coach
to Naomi Osaka, as well as other aspects of the game.
(00:44):
So let's hear what he has to say. Wim, thanks
for joining us on the sit Down. It's great to
have you here. I know it's very early on your
side of the world. We thought we'd start with talking
about your relationship with Naomi Osaka this year and what
you make of her comeback season so far.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Well, super happy. I was super happy to join Know
Me again in October. It's it's a really fun project
where the first part was already really great. We work
together from from nineteen until the end of or the
summer of twenty twenty two, so we had we had
(01:26):
good success, but still I felt there was a lot
more to achieve. Definitely, if you if we just look
at her, I think the potential to be a lot
better than she's ever been. I felt that that was
very clear. And to have this this check a second chance, yeah,
it made me really happy. But obviously see it was
(01:47):
a start from zero again after giving birth and actually
just starting a few months later, and that was definitely
very very challenging. And yeah, her first match was was
only six months after giving birth. That that was like
super early. But yeah, we we felt we all felt
(02:10):
she was she was ready to make a comeback. She
was already in a in a very good physical state,
and she was just very impatient to get to get
going again. And we are now a few months a
few months later, I think as a team we see
we're actually very happy with the progress with her development.
(02:32):
We see a big improvements like week by week physically,
also on the court, I think she's she's really doing
better and better, like day by day. Obviously we haven't
had like the big success we were we were hoping for,
but we all believe that that is just a matter
(02:55):
of time. So we're we're just going to keep working
as we have been doing and we really feel that, yeah,
we're going to have a big success this year.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
What's been the highlight of your first four months back
on tour together.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I think I mean, first of all, the best match
she played was the Switolina match in Miami. I think
there kind of everything came back together. That was definitely
also the way we wanted to play, and yeah, it
was really fun to watch her play, Like you know,
we saw already in practice how good she can play,
(03:33):
but they're kind of everything came together. So really pleased
with that. But just the journey itself is like is
like a highlight. So just to know where she started
in October and like where she is now, the way
she looks, I mean, she's physically stronger than she wasn't
in twenty two, even in twenty one, I think when
(03:55):
she won she won the Australian Open, So I think
the journey itself is for me the highlight.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
As you mentioned earlier, you did work with Naomi several
years ago. What have you noticed is different this time around?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
She is now, first of all, a super professional player
who is taking care of like every detail. I really
feel that she has the mindset now that this is
her chance to make the best out of herself and
to show the people are true potential and also for
(04:34):
her to find her true potential how good She wants
to know how good she possibly can be, and she's
willing to work super hard for that. And yeah, it's
it's a player who right now who's really very curious
about like lots of things how she can improve in
(04:59):
different ways and kind of exploring a lot of things
she's doing, Let's say current nutrition changed a lot, She's
doing a lot of yoga and different movement kind of training,
and yeah, just through different ways of training, exploring where
(05:21):
she can improve.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's really interesting to hear talk about this whim because
I think one thing we also saw that was a
little different from Naomi was the fact she entered the
two fifty level tournament in Ruan in France, which is
a level of tournament. She doesn't tend to play that often.
We both work with Todd Woodbridge and chatted to him
about this, and he thought that this was a really
good thing that she did, that was incredibly important to
her career. And I wonder what the thinking was for
(05:45):
Naomi to enter a tournament like that, because of course
she can get wild cards anywhere, like she could have
played the still Card tournament the same week. So we're
just wondering what was going on there in terms of
that scheduling change for her.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, well, first of all, when she came back and
in October when she started training again, one of her
clear goals in this next chapter in careers to do
better on the clay and on grass, and obviously for that,
we need to spend as much time as possible on
on on that surface, on those surfaces. And you know,
(06:18):
she also made the decision that she wanted to play
the Villagering Cup. She wanted to play, she wants to
play the Olympics, so really busy schedule, and we, yeah,
we still decided to play a tournament the week after
after the Villagini Cup did what she played in Japan,
(06:38):
and then, yeah, we thought it was a good idea
too to go to Roan where you she might have
maybe a little bit more chance to play more matches
that unfortunately didn't work out. But you know, like just
looking back, I think it was it was not easy
just going to Japan for the bill the Chinking Cup,
(07:01):
playing on hard, going to Ruan, have like a day
of preparation back on bag on clay, and it was
just it was just a difficult transition. But you know, like, yeah,
she was very clear that she wanted to play a
tournament on clay before we go to Madrid, and she
wants to spend as much as time as possible on
(07:21):
the clay, and we thought it was a good choice
and I think it wasn't the bad It wasn't a
bad choice, but at the end, with all the traveling,
it was a little bit more difficult than we thought.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And Mantini Trevison, she's obviously very very good on clay,
it's a tough draw. More generally, how are you and
how is Naomi feeling about her game on clay and
what do you think that she does well on this surface?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You know, it's it's a surface where she definitely can
play well, but she needs to spend time and she
needs to play matches. It's it's it's not the surface
where she's automatically feeling super confident like she's on the heart. Therefore,
I mean, she just hasn't played enough on that surface
(08:03):
the last three four years and also hasn't had the
success on that surface to be very confident. But at
the end, she she also grew up on the green
clay in Florida where she played a lot of hours.
So she's she's not she's not uncomfortable in her movement
(08:24):
and right now we see that she's she's playing a
high level on practice on where we play points. It's
it was a little bit more difficult, but I think
you know, she's a she's a super athlete, and that
that helps her on the clay. She has she has
the power two yeah too, to still be playing very
(08:47):
aggressive tennis on the clay and to to accelerate when
the ball has has no pace. She's she's always been
kind of a patient player. I mean, she's an aggressive player,
always has been a player that has been building more
of the rallies just instead of just going for the
winner on the first shot. So she has a good
(09:09):
kick surf on the second serf. So I think there's
a lot of parts in her game that we fit
really well on the clay. But it's it's definitely, yeah,
a work in progress for the next for the next weeks,
but also for the next years, you know, like her
comeback is planned for the next seven eight years. So
(09:33):
the more we can spend time on the clay, the
more we can learn and hopefully also have the success
that will only help her, like for the Olympic Games
this year, but also like for the next year. So
we're we see it as a big as a big
learning or I also feel that her game will just
(09:55):
develop more bye bye by playing on the clay. I
think her game will will develop in a way that
it will also help her on the hard courts better.
So I'm very excited about this part of the season.
And for sure, it's going to be very challenging because
(10:16):
you're going to play players like Travis Son who's just
like really good on clay, and they're just so comfortable
and they know exactly what to play on which ball.
But you know, it's we like challenges and we know,
like we know her potential. I've seen her play good
tennis on clay and I'm confident she'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Just listening to you talk about her, it sounds like
that you're very excited with where she can go and
what more she can achieve. That you feel like there's
more to do. But I was wondering, where do you
take a player who's already won four Grand Slam titles,
has already been world number one, She's been the highest
paid female athlete in the world. She's kind of already
scaled the heights. What do you think is next for her?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Where can she go next? For her, it's just become
a better player and become a better athlete. I mean
it sounds, yeah, it sounds maybe weird that I say that,
but yeah, she has won her four Grand slams and
she played amazing tennis. But like coaching her, I feel
there's there's a lot more to do, and there's a
lot just looking at her. You know, of course, they're
(11:20):
they're really good players out there, like IgA and like Sablanca,
Rebecquina Coco, like, I mean, there are a lot of
good players out there, But just we look at her
data and we want to, let's say, have much better
data of her than we had in twenty two and
twenty one. That's our goal to see like how good
(11:41):
can she possibly be? And then I do feel that
if she if she keeps making steps forward, that that's
the result is going to be that she's going to
win more Grand Slam or that's I mean, that's at
least the goal, and that's where we as a team
really believe in. But the most importan and it's just
focus on her and yeah, showing her true potential.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
We recently caught up with Brad Gilbert and he told
us that whether a coach is working with a player
on the ATP Tour or the WTA Tour, the coach
the focus is on simply helping that player get better,
but others say there's a different approach to working with
players on different tours.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
What's your view, Well, I don't have the real ATP
experience doing my since I came on the tour in
two thousand and nine, I have been only coaching at WIT.
I do feel like I agree more with Brad where
I feel like tennis is tennis and as a coach,
(12:48):
what do you do? You try to develop your player
and you know, like women and men, they're both playing tennis.
You know, like and technically it's kind of the same sport.
And then of course you try to analyze your opponents
and find the right strategy, so that's that's also kind
of the same. So I I don't think there's a
(13:12):
there's a really big difference, you know. I think just yeah,
coaching women, you know that it's it's let's say sometimes
it could be a little bit more emotional, and it's
it's it's how to it's it's also very important how
(13:32):
to prepare the player before before the matches, Like I
always felt that in my fifteen years on the tour.
That's like putting them or bring them to the court
with the right expectations, like what challenge is to expect
and just to be ready for everything. So they're they're
kind of let's say emotionally like very stable and and yeah,
(13:57):
just just to to be ready for for all the
challenges that day. I think that's just maybe a little
bit more important than women's doone. As I would say, we.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Both came to know you in two thousand and nine
on the WTA tour when you were a coach to
KYM classes. She was making her comeback as a mother.
Are there specific requirements in coaching a player who is
also a.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Mom, I mean the coaching, the coaching is coaching. You know,
you tried to make your player a champion, that's a
ultimate goal, but obviously have you need understanding that that
it's probably a little bit different than coaching a twenty
year old like just traveling by herself. Right, So I
(14:41):
do feel now with Naomi, not much has changed. She
always had a good structure in her training and also
at the tournaments where we start early in the morning,
around eight or nine the latest, and then we just
do all the work together until around two or three,
and that's kind of how we've done it in the
(15:01):
past and kind of how we do it now, and
then she has she has the rest of the day
for her daughter, and you know, it's it's it's obviously
very important that the player has that's like, that's a
good structure. But with home it was that guy in
the past, and kind of with with Kim, we we
did it more or less the same training early in
(15:23):
the morning and the afternoon more off for the for
the family.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So hearing how you talk about coaching and preparing players,
one thing that you have a lot of experience doing
is coaching against Serena Williams. I just finished reading Ben
Rothenberg's book about Naomi Osaka, and there was a part
in it where he spoke to you about your success
coaching players to victories against her. I think he've worked
with six different players who have beaten Serena, which I
(15:48):
think actually might be a record for a coach. So
I wondered if you were maybe able to share with
us now that she's retired, what is the secret to
beating Serena?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
You know, that's honestly, it's a great that are super
proud of that. You know, Serena, I mean obviously the
best player all time, the best female player all time,
so much respect for her. But yeah, I mean first
step was always making the player believe that there is
(16:20):
a chance to win. I think Serena definitely won a
lot of matches before the match started and making I
think making the player aware of like what was going
to happen even before the match would start. You know, say,
she likes to be a little bit late before the
(16:42):
start of the match, so she she she likes to
make you wait. There are a couple of other like
things she would she would do before the match to
really show her presence, and you know, I think just
going on the court and like being there for the
for the toss and seeing seeing readA on the other
side is not easy to to stay calm like. So
(17:07):
it's it's it's super important. That was the first step
to be really like okay, knowing understanding what's going to happen,
and then be fully prepared for that. And then yeah, tactically,
of course, I've beaten Serena with I think, yeah, six
different players, so all these players had kind of different
different weapons are and different strengths and weaknesses, so it's
(17:30):
always a little bit the yeah, a little bit personal.
But there were I mean, if I if I would
say like three things. It was obviously that she was
struggling a bit with with a low slide where she
has to move in the court and really getting under
(17:50):
the ball. That was like the match lost to let's
say Vinci. That was that was very clear that she
that she was struggling with that balls at her body
like from the return and also from a defense position.
If you would let's say play the defense cross that
would be a lot more comfortable than if you were
(18:10):
able to play it like long at her at her
body that she has to like get more distance to
the ball, and I do feel in tight situations just
the fall and was letting her down just a little
bit more than then the back end. Like those I
think those three were, yeah, were very important. And just mentally,
(18:33):
she was winning so many matches so easy that like
if you would just stay mentally like believing that there
was always kind of a window where she was like
going down a bit bitter level and that was I
felt that was always the moment that, yeah, that you
(18:54):
needed to be ready for. And because she wont so
many that's just easily. She was also not too comfortable
when it would go to a five all or a
six all level because it was like she was not
experiencing that a lot. So yeah, I mean I would
say a lot of like all these things a little
bit together. But I think on the other hand, most
(19:19):
important you had to hope that she wasn't having like
her very very best day because at her best, like
you could have the best tactics doing those but I
don't know, ten years she was she was unbeatable, like
that's that's clear. She was far better than than all
(19:39):
the rest of the game. Whim.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You've had an amazing coaching career where you've coached multiple
players to Grand Slam titles or finals. Do you have
a sort of look back on tennis history and think
I would have loved to have coached that particular player.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
When I when I started my career in two dozen nine,
my dream is actually to coach or I thought the
highest possible I could achieve was to coach Maria Sharpova.
I think, yeah, she was, Yeah, she was such an
interesting player. She was also like an unbelievable good player.
(20:19):
But yeah, I felt like I would have been super
excited to coach her and to make her, like, yeah,
tried to make her a better player, and like especially
the last yeah five six years of her career. I
think that would have been like super interesting project for myself,
and I think I could have been a val valuable
(20:41):
coach for her. But yeah, that's you know, she had
other great she had really great coaches during her career,
and she always had like the best people around her.
And but yeah, like that was definitely a player that
I would have loved to coach.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Here, Yeah, as tennis fans, I think we would have
loved to have seen that too. So on a personal level,
how do you balance your family life with your life
as a traveling coach.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I think I have a very understanding family. I think
that that's the first one. But my children kind of
grew up like they were born in the time that
I was doing this, so so I think my oldest son,
who's now eight, it was like two or three years
ago where he actually asked me the question, like, hey,
(21:27):
my friend says his dad is home every night, so
he kind of thought that, like when dad goes to work,
it's normal that he's gone for like three or four
weeks and then he's home maybe a week or two.
So for them, it's kind of normal. They haven't experienced
anything else, and I think that's that's helping us. I
(21:49):
think some some coaches decide to stay home when when
the kids are very very young, and I think that
makes it a little bit more different a girl. Then
let's say suddenly the kids are three and four years
old and then suddenly the father starts traveling like four
or five weeks in a row. I think that's like
a big shock for the family. So we yeah, like
(22:12):
we we we we have done it since since the
kids are born we're luckily my wife is at home,
so she she can take care of the kids and
bring them to school, pick them up, bring them to
the hobbies, bringing to the tennis, the football. So the kids,
(22:32):
let's say, they're they're having they're having a wonderful time
even when I'm when I'm when I'm gone, when I'm traveling,
And every year we tried to do at least one
trip together, and like recently we did the Indian Wells
Miami trip, which they have done already a few times,
and they're they're super happy to be there and have
some have some sunshine after the cold winter in Belgium.
(22:55):
The most important spend spend time together and do lots
of fun activity together.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It's been really clear from talking to you today just
how passionate you are about coaching. That's really come through
in this chat. And I just wondered that, since you've
done this for fifteen years and started back in two
thousand and nine, what is it that you must love
about coaching and walk tim motivated to continue? Like do
you think it might be something you could still be
doing in another fifteen years from now?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah? And when I started, it was obviously not clear
like how my career would go, and also if I
would get a lot of chances to coach like good
players on the tour. So I don't think I imagined
in two thousand and nine that I was going to
be here in twenty twenty four and coaching someone like
(23:42):
Naomi Osaka, and I never dreamed about that. But I think,
like you said, everything starts with passion. And since the
first time I picked up a tennis recket, tennis has
always been, yeah, my biggest passion. I still loved to
play every time, Like now me thinks it's very funny,
but every time I get like she's still warming up
(24:05):
and I get like five minutes to hit the ball,
and I'm I'm like the happiest person in the world.
And no, I think also like just my personality, I
love to I love to I love to give, And
I think the coaching role is like the the perfect
role for me. Where I am I'm in the background,
like trying to to help as much as possible and
(24:27):
with my with my knowledge, but also with my passion
and give the give the energy to the player and
let her feel the passion as well. And yeah, just
also with with the ambition I have to, yeah, to
win Grand Slams and to to make the player the
(24:48):
number one in the world if possible. But yeah, that's
I think that's the whole package. Yeah, fits me really well.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Thank you so much, Wim. It's been great to talk
to you, and good luck for the weeks and the
months ahead.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Thank you very much, both of you.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
So, Matt's some absolute nuggets there from Whim, and I
loved hearing in particular that the player he would have
loved to have coached was Maria Sharapova.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, I thought that was really interesting, and yeah, it
was just absolutely fascinating to know because we'd spoken about
his success coaching players against Serena, but on the flip side,
Sharapova notoriously struggled against Serena and I think lost their
last nineteen matches in a row. So, you know, would
if Wim had have been working with Maria, would he
have helped her make a dent in that head to
(25:35):
head I don't know, and that's something we'll never know,
but fascinating to contemplate.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, absolutely, And what we do know is we'll be
back next week with another episode of the sit Down,
and in the meantime, you can listen to John and
the team on the AO Show weekly this Thursday, and.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
For details on how to contact us, you'll find them
in the show notes. And in the meantime, please subscribe,
rate and review Good to see if you next week.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Look forward to it, Matt oh mm hmm.
Hello and welcome to the Sitdown. I'm Viv Christy from
Australian Tennis magazine and great to be joined by Matt
Trolope of oz open dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hey Matt, Hi, Viv, how are you doing.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm great, Thank you Great to be joining you again.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, it's always good. Another episode of the sit Down
this week and we got the chance to chat to
one of the game's most esteemed coaches. Tell us what's
in store for listeners today.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
We were lucky enough to talk to Wim Faset, who,
as you say, is a superstar of the coaching world.
He's coached the likes of Kim Kleister's, Victoria Azarenka, Simona
Hallop and Angelie Kerber and we caught up with Whim.
He talked about his current role, of course as coach
to Naomi Osaka, as well as other aspects of the game.
(00:44):
So let's hear what he has to say. Wim, thanks
for joining us on the sit Down. It's great to
have you here. I know it's very early on your
side of the world. We thought we'd start with talking
about your relationship with Naomi Osaka this year and what
you make of her comeback season so far.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Well, super happy. I was super happy to join Know
Me again in October. It's it's a really fun project
where the first part was already really great. We work
together from from nineteen until the end of or the
summer of twenty twenty two, so we had we had
(01:26):
good success, but still I felt there was a lot
more to achieve. Definitely, if you if we just look
at her, I think the potential to be a lot
better than she's ever been. I felt that that was
very clear. And to have this this check a second chance, yeah,
it made me really happy. But obviously see it was
(01:47):
a start from zero again after giving birth and actually
just starting a few months later, and that was definitely
very very challenging. And yeah, her first match was was
only six months after giving birth. That that was like
super early. But yeah, we we felt we all felt
(02:10):
she was she was ready to make a comeback. She
was already in a in a very good physical state,
and she was just very impatient to get to get
going again. And we are now a few months a
few months later, I think as a team we see
we're actually very happy with the progress with her development.
(02:32):
We see a big improvements like week by week physically,
also on the court, I think she's she's really doing
better and better, like day by day. Obviously we haven't
had like the big success we were we were hoping for,
but we all believe that that is just a matter
(02:55):
of time. So we're we're just going to keep working
as we have been doing and we really feel that, yeah,
we're going to have a big success this year.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
What's been the highlight of your first four months back
on tour together.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I think I mean, first of all, the best match
she played was the Switolina match in Miami. I think
there kind of everything came back together. That was definitely
also the way we wanted to play, and yeah, it
was really fun to watch her play, Like you know,
we saw already in practice how good she can play,
(03:33):
but they're kind of everything came together. So really pleased
with that. But just the journey itself is like is
like a highlight. So just to know where she started
in October and like where she is now, the way
she looks, I mean, she's physically stronger than she wasn't
in twenty two, even in twenty one, I think when
(03:55):
she won she won the Australian Open, So I think
the journey itself is for me the highlight.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
As you mentioned earlier, you did work with Naomi several
years ago. What have you noticed is different this time around?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
She is now, first of all, a super professional player
who is taking care of like every detail. I really
feel that she has the mindset now that this is
her chance to make the best out of herself and
to show the people are true potential and also for
(04:34):
her to find her true potential how good She wants
to know how good she possibly can be, and she's
willing to work super hard for that. And yeah, it's
it's a player who right now who's really very curious
about like lots of things how she can improve in
(04:59):
different ways and kind of exploring a lot of things
she's doing, Let's say current nutrition changed a lot, She's
doing a lot of yoga and different movement kind of training,
and yeah, just through different ways of training, exploring where
(05:21):
she can improve.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's really interesting to hear talk about this whim because
I think one thing we also saw that was a
little different from Naomi was the fact she entered the
two fifty level tournament in Ruan in France, which is
a level of tournament. She doesn't tend to play that often.
We both work with Todd Woodbridge and chatted to him
about this, and he thought that this was a really
good thing that she did, that was incredibly important to
her career. And I wonder what the thinking was for
(05:45):
Naomi to enter a tournament like that, because of course
she can get wild cards anywhere, like she could have
played the still Card tournament the same week. So we're
just wondering what was going on there in terms of
that scheduling change for her.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, well, first of all, when she came back and
in October when she started training again, one of her
clear goals in this next chapter in careers to do
better on the clay and on grass, and obviously for that,
we need to spend as much time as possible on
on on that surface, on those surfaces. And you know,
(06:18):
she also made the decision that she wanted to play
the Villagering Cup. She wanted to play, she wants to
play the Olympics, so really busy schedule, and we, yeah,
we still decided to play a tournament the week after
after the Villagini Cup did what she played in Japan,
(06:38):
and then, yeah, we thought it was a good idea
too to go to Roan where you she might have
maybe a little bit more chance to play more matches
that unfortunately didn't work out. But you know, like just
looking back, I think it was it was not easy
just going to Japan for the bill the Chinking Cup,
(07:01):
playing on hard, going to Ruan, have like a day
of preparation back on bag on clay, and it was
just it was just a difficult transition. But you know, like, yeah,
she was very clear that she wanted to play a
tournament on clay before we go to Madrid, and she
wants to spend as much as time as possible on
(07:21):
the clay, and we thought it was a good choice
and I think it wasn't the bad It wasn't a
bad choice, but at the end, with all the traveling,
it was a little bit more difficult than we thought.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And Mantini Trevison, she's obviously very very good on clay,
it's a tough draw. More generally, how are you and
how is Naomi feeling about her game on clay and
what do you think that she does well on this surface?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You know, it's it's a surface where she definitely can
play well, but she needs to spend time and she
needs to play matches. It's it's it's not the surface
where she's automatically feeling super confident like she's on the heart. Therefore,
I mean, she just hasn't played enough on that surface
(08:03):
the last three four years and also hasn't had the
success on that surface to be very confident. But at
the end, she she also grew up on the green
clay in Florida where she played a lot of hours.
So she's she's not she's not uncomfortable in her movement
(08:24):
and right now we see that she's she's playing a
high level on practice on where we play points. It's
it was a little bit more difficult, but I think
you know, she's a she's a super athlete, and that
that helps her on the clay. She has she has
the power two yeah too, to still be playing very
(08:47):
aggressive tennis on the clay and to to accelerate when
the ball has has no pace. She's she's always been
kind of a patient player. I mean, she's an aggressive player,
always has been a player that has been building more
of the rallies just instead of just going for the
winner on the first shot. So she has a good
(09:09):
kick surf on the second serf. So I think there's
a lot of parts in her game that we fit
really well on the clay. But it's it's definitely, yeah,
a work in progress for the next for the next weeks,
but also for the next years, you know, like her
comeback is planned for the next seven eight years. So
(09:33):
the more we can spend time on the clay, the
more we can learn and hopefully also have the success
that will only help her, like for the Olympic Games
this year, but also like for the next year. So
we're we see it as a big as a big
learning or I also feel that her game will just
(09:55):
develop more bye bye by playing on the clay. I
think her game will will develop in a way that
it will also help her on the hard courts better.
So I'm very excited about this part of the season.
And for sure, it's going to be very challenging because
(10:16):
you're going to play players like Travis Son who's just
like really good on clay, and they're just so comfortable
and they know exactly what to play on which ball.
But you know, it's we like challenges and we know,
like we know her potential. I've seen her play good
tennis on clay and I'm confident she'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Just listening to you talk about her, it sounds like
that you're very excited with where she can go and
what more she can achieve. That you feel like there's
more to do. But I was wondering, where do you
take a player who's already won four Grand Slam titles,
has already been world number one, She's been the highest
paid female athlete in the world. She's kind of already
scaled the heights. What do you think is next for her?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Where can she go next? For her, it's just become
a better player and become a better athlete. I mean
it sounds, yeah, it sounds maybe weird that I say that,
but yeah, she has won her four Grand slams and
she played amazing tennis. But like coaching her, I feel
there's there's a lot more to do, and there's a
lot just looking at her. You know, of course, they're
(11:20):
they're really good players out there, like IgA and like Sablanca,
Rebecquina Coco, like, I mean, there are a lot of
good players out there, But just we look at her
data and we want to, let's say, have much better
data of her than we had in twenty two and
twenty one. That's our goal to see like how good
(11:41):
can she possibly be? And then I do feel that
if she if she keeps making steps forward, that that's
the result is going to be that she's going to
win more Grand Slam or that's I mean, that's at
least the goal, and that's where we as a team
really believe in. But the most importan and it's just
focus on her and yeah, showing her true potential.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
We recently caught up with Brad Gilbert and he told
us that whether a coach is working with a player
on the ATP Tour or the WTA Tour, the coach
the focus is on simply helping that player get better,
but others say there's a different approach to working with
players on different tours.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
What's your view, Well, I don't have the real ATP
experience doing my since I came on the tour in
two thousand and nine, I have been only coaching at WIT.
I do feel like I agree more with Brad where
I feel like tennis is tennis and as a coach,
(12:48):
what do you do? You try to develop your player
and you know, like women and men, they're both playing tennis.
You know, like and technically it's kind of the same sport.
And then of course you try to analyze your opponents
and find the right strategy, so that's that's also kind
of the same. So I I don't think there's a
(13:12):
there's a really big difference, you know. I think just yeah,
coaching women, you know that it's it's let's say sometimes
it could be a little bit more emotional, and it's
it's it's how to it's it's also very important how
(13:32):
to prepare the player before before the matches, Like I
always felt that in my fifteen years on the tour.
That's like putting them or bring them to the court
with the right expectations, like what challenge is to expect
and just to be ready for everything. So they're they're
kind of let's say emotionally like very stable and and yeah,
(13:57):
just just to to be ready for for all the
challenges that day. I think that's just maybe a little
bit more important than women's doone. As I would say, we.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Both came to know you in two thousand and nine
on the WTA tour when you were a coach to
KYM classes. She was making her comeback as a mother.
Are there specific requirements in coaching a player who is
also a.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Mom, I mean the coaching, the coaching is coaching. You know,
you tried to make your player a champion, that's a
ultimate goal, but obviously have you need understanding that that
it's probably a little bit different than coaching a twenty
year old like just traveling by herself. Right, So I
(14:41):
do feel now with Naomi, not much has changed. She
always had a good structure in her training and also
at the tournaments where we start early in the morning,
around eight or nine the latest, and then we just
do all the work together until around two or three,
and that's kind of how we've done it in the
(15:01):
past and kind of how we do it now, and
then she has she has the rest of the day
for her daughter, and you know, it's it's it's obviously
very important that the player has that's like, that's a
good structure. But with home it was that guy in
the past, and kind of with with Kim, we we
did it more or less the same training early in
(15:23):
the morning and the afternoon more off for the for
the family.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So hearing how you talk about coaching and preparing players,
one thing that you have a lot of experience doing
is coaching against Serena Williams. I just finished reading Ben
Rothenberg's book about Naomi Osaka, and there was a part
in it where he spoke to you about your success
coaching players to victories against her. I think he've worked
with six different players who have beaten Serena, which I
(15:48):
think actually might be a record for a coach. So
I wondered if you were maybe able to share with
us now that she's retired, what is the secret to
beating Serena?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
You know, that's honestly, it's a great that are super
proud of that. You know, Serena, I mean obviously the
best player all time, the best female player all time,
so much respect for her. But yeah, I mean first
step was always making the player believe that there is
(16:20):
a chance to win. I think Serena definitely won a
lot of matches before the match started and making I
think making the player aware of like what was going
to happen even before the match would start. You know, say,
she likes to be a little bit late before the
(16:42):
start of the match, so she she she likes to
make you wait. There are a couple of other like
things she would she would do before the match to
really show her presence, and you know, I think just
going on the court and like being there for the
for the toss and seeing seeing readA on the other
side is not easy to to stay calm like. So
(17:07):
it's it's it's super important. That was the first step
to be really like okay, knowing understanding what's going to happen,
and then be fully prepared for that. And then yeah, tactically,
of course, I've beaten Serena with I think, yeah, six
different players, so all these players had kind of different
different weapons are and different strengths and weaknesses, so it's
(17:30):
always a little bit the yeah, a little bit personal.
But there were I mean, if I if I would
say like three things. It was obviously that she was
struggling a bit with with a low slide where she
has to move in the court and really getting under
(17:50):
the ball. That was like the match lost to let's
say Vinci. That was that was very clear that she
that she was struggling with that balls at her body
like from the return and also from a defense position.
If you would let's say play the defense cross that
would be a lot more comfortable than if you were
(18:10):
able to play it like long at her at her
body that she has to like get more distance to
the ball, and I do feel in tight situations just
the fall and was letting her down just a little
bit more than then the back end. Like those I
think those three were, yeah, were very important. And just mentally,
(18:33):
she was winning so many matches so easy that like
if you would just stay mentally like believing that there
was always kind of a window where she was like
going down a bit bitter level and that was I
felt that was always the moment that, yeah, that you
(18:54):
needed to be ready for. And because she wont so
many that's just easily. She was also not too comfortable
when it would go to a five all or a
six all level because it was like she was not
experiencing that a lot. So yeah, I mean I would
say a lot of like all these things a little
bit together. But I think on the other hand, most
(19:19):
important you had to hope that she wasn't having like
her very very best day because at her best, like
you could have the best tactics doing those but I
don't know, ten years she was she was unbeatable, like
that's that's clear. She was far better than than all
(19:39):
the rest of the game. Whim.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You've had an amazing coaching career where you've coached multiple
players to Grand Slam titles or finals. Do you have
a sort of look back on tennis history and think
I would have loved to have coached that particular player.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
When I when I started my career in two dozen nine,
my dream is actually to coach or I thought the
highest possible I could achieve was to coach Maria Sharpova.
I think, yeah, she was, Yeah, she was such an
interesting player. She was also like an unbelievable good player.
(20:19):
But yeah, I felt like I would have been super
excited to coach her and to make her, like, yeah,
tried to make her a better player, and like especially
the last yeah five six years of her career. I
think that would have been like super interesting project for myself,
and I think I could have been a val valuable
(20:41):
coach for her. But yeah, that's you know, she had
other great she had really great coaches during her career,
and she always had like the best people around her.
And but yeah, like that was definitely a player that
I would have loved to coach.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Here, Yeah, as tennis fans, I think we would have
loved to have seen that too. So on a personal level,
how do you balance your family life with your life
as a traveling coach.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I think I have a very understanding family. I think
that that's the first one. But my children kind of
grew up like they were born in the time that
I was doing this, so so I think my oldest son,
who's now eight, it was like two or three years
ago where he actually asked me the question, like, hey,
(21:27):
my friend says his dad is home every night, so
he kind of thought that, like when dad goes to work,
it's normal that he's gone for like three or four
weeks and then he's home maybe a week or two.
So for them, it's kind of normal. They haven't experienced
anything else, and I think that's that's helping us. I
(21:49):
think some some coaches decide to stay home when when
the kids are very very young, and I think that
makes it a little bit more different a girl. Then
let's say suddenly the kids are three and four years
old and then suddenly the father starts traveling like four
or five weeks in a row. I think that's like
a big shock for the family. So we yeah, like
(22:12):
we we we we have done it since since the
kids are born we're luckily my wife is at home,
so she she can take care of the kids and
bring them to school, pick them up, bring them to
the hobbies, bringing to the tennis, the football. So the kids,
(22:32):
let's say, they're they're having they're having a wonderful time
even when I'm when I'm when I'm gone, when I'm traveling,
And every year we tried to do at least one
trip together, and like recently we did the Indian Wells
Miami trip, which they have done already a few times,
and they're they're super happy to be there and have
some have some sunshine after the cold winter in Belgium.
(22:55):
The most important spend spend time together and do lots
of fun activity together.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It's been really clear from talking to you today just
how passionate you are about coaching. That's really come through
in this chat. And I just wondered that, since you've
done this for fifteen years and started back in two
thousand and nine, what is it that you must love
about coaching and walk tim motivated to continue? Like do
you think it might be something you could still be
doing in another fifteen years from now?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah? And when I started, it was obviously not clear
like how my career would go, and also if I
would get a lot of chances to coach like good
players on the tour. So I don't think I imagined
in two thousand and nine that I was going to
be here in twenty twenty four and coaching someone like
(23:42):
Naomi Osaka, and I never dreamed about that. But I think,
like you said, everything starts with passion. And since the
first time I picked up a tennis recket, tennis has
always been, yeah, my biggest passion. I still loved to
play every time, Like now me thinks it's very funny,
but every time I get like she's still warming up
(24:05):
and I get like five minutes to hit the ball,
and I'm I'm like the happiest person in the world.
And no, I think also like just my personality, I
love to I love to I love to give, And
I think the coaching role is like the the perfect
role for me. Where I am I'm in the background,
like trying to to help as much as possible and
(24:27):
with my with my knowledge, but also with my passion
and give the give the energy to the player and
let her feel the passion as well. And yeah, just
also with with the ambition I have to, yeah, to
win Grand Slams and to to make the player the
(24:48):
number one in the world if possible. But yeah, that's
I think that's the whole package. Yeah, fits me really well.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Thank you so much, Wim. It's been great to talk
to you, and good luck for the weeks and the
months ahead.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Thank you very much, both of you.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
So, Matt's some absolute nuggets there from Whim, and I
loved hearing in particular that the player he would have
loved to have coached was Maria Sharapova.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, I thought that was really interesting, and yeah, it
was just absolutely fascinating to know because we'd spoken about
his success coaching players against Serena, but on the flip side,
Sharapova notoriously struggled against Serena and I think lost their
last nineteen matches in a row. So, you know, would
if Wim had have been working with Maria, would he
have helped her make a dent in that head to
(25:35):
head I don't know, and that's something we'll never know,
but fascinating to contemplate.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, absolutely, And what we do know is we'll be
back next week with another episode of the sit Down,
and in the meantime, you can listen to John and
the team on the AO Show weekly this Thursday, and.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
For details on how to contact us, you'll find them
in the show notes. And in the meantime, please subscribe,
rate and review Good to see if you next week.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Look forward to it, Matt oh mm hmm.
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