Wednesday Oct 22nd

An hour long discussion of the news of the day.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Tim Power Show on your VOCM.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
The views and opinions of this program, or not necessarily
those of this station.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Here's Tim. Hello everybody, Wednesday, October twenty second. Great to
be with you today. We have a ton of things
to talk about and we've got a great show lined
up today. We even have the Auditor General of Canada
on to talk about something I'm sure. I'm sure a
lot of our listeners can relate to the service challenges

(00:31):
you sometimes experience when you deal with the Canada Revenue Agency.
You want to hear that conversation because it's fascinating. The
Auditor General released her one of her series of reports yesterday,
and she also looked at the Canadian Armed Forces when
she and I spoke earlier today. She's talked a lot

(00:53):
about the report on the Canada Revenue Agency, where if
the people answering the phone in the Canada Revenue Agency
we're working for any other entity, they probably wouldn't last
very long because the stats are wild. Eighteen percent of
calls answered completely, eight million calls deflected. I think I

(01:17):
have that right. Seventeen percent of the time you got
all the answers you wanted to personal tax questions fifty
odd percent. You got a right on business questions anyway,
you want to hear that, hear that conversation. Nearly two
hundred million dollars spent for a platform to manage that

(01:42):
call volume and other calls across two departments, and she's
launching another inquiry into all of that. But we'll have
Karen Hogan is her name. She will join us a
little later, but I want to talk about a few
other things before I get into the rest of the
show and talk to our first guest. We have now
been given some information by the team of the new Premier,

(02:04):
Designant Tony Wakem. As you heard Richard say in the news,
announced some members of his transition team. They are all
people I think familiar to many of us in business,
in political circles. There are all people who have long
and successful histories in government and understand the publics of

(02:29):
the private of the civil service as well. What I
found fascinating in the statement is the term weeks. It
seems like, and maybe this is not a bad approach
at all, that the Premier designate and his team are
going to take their time transitioning. That isn't a bad
thing either. If that is the case, it's only been

(02:49):
one week. Federal transitions sometimes take two to three weeks.
Provincials seem to be faster, but when you're taking over
from a government that's been in power for ten years,
probably takes a while to figure out all of the
key basic elements that you need to be up on
before you assume power yourself. But weeks was the term

(03:12):
used by the Premier Designate's office in the statement they released.
We'll see what that means, and we'll continue to watch
that story as we go forward. I see the Premier
designate according to some social media so I was out
at an event with Paul Brandt last night, showcasing some
important local social issues. So that is where we are there.

(03:36):
And we've still not heard much on John Hogan's future again,
which is not surprising. He should also take his time.
Election can be a grinding thing, and in a case
of still Premier Hogan, he won a leadership and he
also ran an election in the same year. That's a
lot to do. Speaking of leaders apparently the Prime Minister's

(04:00):
going to speak to us tonight through an audience at
seven thirty pm Eastern nine o'clock in Newfoundland eight thirty
in Labrador. I don't know where it will be broadcast.
I'm sure across the news channels anyway. Prime Minister is
giving what his office describing as a prime time address.
I don't know if we'll get any budget previews or not.

(04:21):
The story coming out of Ottawa is that sometimes they
overstate the importance of a particular event. But he's speaking
to a group of young people and it's supposed to
be about generational investments, as is the norm this time
of year, as we come to with a minority parliament
and come towards a budget on November fourth. Federally, the

(04:46):
speculation about will there or won't there be an election.
It was kind of high yesterday that there would be.
But I think I've talked about this subject over four
thousand times and I'm not sure we're headed into a
federal election. I don't think we are in the next
number of weeks when the budget votes start to happen,
because it's really in nobody's interest that it happened. Prime

(05:07):
Minister's also meeting with Pierre Polyev in advance of the
budget today. I think they're meeting in about two hours.
He's met with Don Davies, the interim leader of the NDP.
He's met with I Francois Blanchet, the head of the block.
So they're doing all of their meetings and trying to
work together. One assumes or ticking boxes, you pick your

(05:28):
poison to see what the path forward looks like for
all of us. So we'll watch that. We'll watch that
address tonight. What else do I have for you? Oh yes,
I don't know if we talked about it yesterday, but
gold mail reporting that there could be could be some

(05:49):
deals with the United States done in November. Prime Minister
didn't bat that down yesterday, but there you have it.
No updates on the dot and Jay's big kickoff on
Friday night. There's still tons of excitement about all of that.
We will continue to monitor. So what's on today's show, Well,

(06:11):
about a moment or two, I'm going to talk to
Jordan Brown, the new mayor of lab City, about what's
going on with Wabash Airport. You know, yesterday we had
Philip Earl, the Liberal MP from Labrador on talking about
resolutions being sought for Wabish Airport to get it reopened.
Apparently it did open this morning. We'll talk to Jordan

(06:34):
about that and his new role as mayor of lab City.
We'll also then talk to the Auditor General of Canada,
Karen Hogan, about her audit of the CIRA, and touch
a little bit on her audit of the Canadian Armed Forces,
including housing and recruitment. We'll get a reaction to that
conversation with Karen Hogan from General Tom Lawson. He's the

(06:55):
retired general who was the Chief of the Defense Staff.
At about four at four forty, we're going to talk
about something I think is pretty cool, a social acquisition
through the SITA program done by the Community Sector Council.
Two Whales, an important community hub and tourism business import

(07:16):
Rexton has been purchased through the Community Sector Council and
a couple of others. We'll talk about that at Worker
Owner Cooperative and our buddy and host of the vosm's
morning show. One of the hosts, Russell Bauers, has got
a story on the new healthcare hub. All that coming up,

(07:36):
but let's start with Jordan Brown. Jordan, are the planes
flying at wabush now?

Speaker 3 (07:43):
From my understanding of Rasenias and it looks like that
we've managed to come and I guess bring down the
certification or the number allowing for commercial aircraft or commercial
airlines to fly in with a proper risk assessment, to
get back to business as normal.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, this has been a Look. You and I have
talked a lot of airport issues over the years. We've
talked a lot about water bombers. In your previous capacity
as MH you rely on Wablish Airport as the mayor
of Labrador City. There's no airport in lab City. If
people are going to fly to see you and your community,
they got to go into Wablish Airport. How frustrating have

(08:25):
the last couple of days been to have it shut
down then reopened and now you know uncertain as to
what the path forward may be? Or are you certain
as to what the path forward may be?

Speaker 3 (08:37):
It's a little bit more clear today. A lot of
it has to do is as they transition.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
To having.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
The airport, as they get that, if they sort of.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Well you're breaking up a little bit, Jordan. You need
to go to a better place there, can you hear me?

Speaker 5 (08:58):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (08:58):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yes, I sorry?

Speaker 5 (08:59):
With that labor or sell service, I guess.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
As the finest that's all right. Apparently there's going to
be relief that in the federal budget. Anyway, you keep.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Going, Jeordan, all right, better hopefully, but anyway, so as we,
I guess, go through the growing pains of reintegrating the
fire services at the airport, the certifications change, and as
that happens, there's more responsibility. And so what happened was
the timelines were met. Someone change the certification of the airport,

(09:30):
and then it just created this chain reaction of commercial
airlines not able to land at the airport. And so
what they're going to do is, I guess go back
a bit and slow roll it, Andy and and bring
and give the firefighting team more time to get fully
up to what they need to be, so the certification
can properly change and we can go to actually have
an air crash rescue again.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, which you need to have. It's absolutely if we're
going to run an airport, I need to ask, sorry,
go ahead, what we're gonna say?

Speaker 3 (09:59):
I say, I said, and absolutely because air traffic in
this region has increased steadily, and as things, you know,
progress in the region, it's expected to continue to.

Speaker 5 (10:10):
Move up forward.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
So this is something that has to happen. But because
of a lot of you know, northern growing pains and
things that happened in North were You know, it's going
to be a little bit longer than what we would like.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
As the new mayor of lab City, one of your jobs,
of course is to speak as you did in the
past neural As and MHA about what's important to lab City. Obviously,
the mining industry is important to lab City. The airport's
part of that. Another part of that was of course
supposed to be an MoU that went through and saw

(10:43):
potentially new specific power lines coming into your area to
make sure your industry could be powered up. How concerned
are you now about the MoU given the change of
government and what that might mean to lab City.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
You know, it's something we do need power, There's no
doubt about it. We have plans as a as a
community and what we want to do for our residents.
You know, business has their plans, the mining industry has
their plans, and so this is where we have to
have a conversation with this new government on what's our plan,
what what's your plan for us on making sure that
we receive the electricity that we need in the timeline

(11:23):
that we needed. And so you know, we have to
have this conversation, uh with bring your elect wakem and
make sure that you know that we will receive what
we need when we need it. And this is a
key part of our region. I you know, as a community,
we we need housing, we need businesses. You know, we

(11:44):
have business development needs. So we want to make sure
that you know, our needs are communicated to the new
government to make sure that we can do these things.
You know, I want the community, my community grow. I'm
very optimistic for the future. I have a fantastic account
with me. These are some great individuals I got the
I've known and I get to work with now. And

(12:05):
so we want to make sure that we were able
to do this and we want to make sure that
we can do the things that we all dream of doing.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
You know, have you had an opportunity yet to talk
to the newly elected m h A who is going
to be in the on the conservative side of the house.
Have they had that chance yet?

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Jordan, Yeah, we're you know, they're they're getting in the
justice their role. Well, we have plans to meet with them.

Speaker 5 (12:27):
With it soon.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Okay, last one for you, how is the new role going?

Speaker 6 (12:33):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (12:33):
You? You you stepped out of one politics and then
do another. How are the early days? I guess it's
been what two three weeks? You've been mayor of lab City.
How's it going.

Speaker 5 (12:44):
It's it's great.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
You know, it's a it's a different role, but you know,
it feels familiar and it's great that, you know, I
I I'm great to have a fantastic council. You know,
I have, you know, the wonderful people loved West. It's
even you know, greater that you know, you know, this
is the community I grew up in. This is my hometown,
you know, so it was fantastic to be you know,

(13:04):
represented provincially, but it's also just as fantastic to to
to represent my community.

Speaker 5 (13:10):
That I live in.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
I love.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
This is my home, It's always been my home. So
you know, I'm very optimistic, and like I said, I
have a fantastic council with me. You know, you know,
I may be biased, but you know I think I
have the greatest municipality that there ever was. But that's
just me because this is my home. But you know,
I'm enjoying it and I and I'm also you know,
like I'm very optimistic for our future place and I'm

(13:33):
just going to give a plug. You know that West
is a great place to live, work, play. You know,
there's a great opportunity up here for people.

Speaker 5 (13:39):
So you know that's it.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
You know, I'm this is this is it. You know,
this is the branding. Now I'm just going to keep
saying lab City, lab City, lab City.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
You move from lab West to lab City, all right,
Jordan Lways appreciate chatting with you. Thanks for the update
on the airport and what might be of power distribution
into lab City. Appreciate the time.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Thank you so much at any time at Jim Neils.
You know, I love being the Leavel course model every
now and then.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
You know, take my friend, you still got the job,
all right. When we come my friend, take care. That
is the mayor of Labrador City, our friend, Jordan Brown,
when we come back. The Auditor General of Canada Karen
Hogan on some of the things she's found that aren't
working so well at the Canada Revenue Agency back with
the Auditor General in a moment. Yesterday, the Auditor General

(14:28):
released reports on the quality of service at the Canada
Revenue Agency and on the Canadian Armed Forces efforts to
improve recruitment and housing for troops as it related to
the CREA audit findings. The Auditor's Office plays calls to
the CRA their contact centers over a period of four
months this year, asking general questions. They found that CRA

(14:52):
call centers provided accurate responses to questions about individual taxes
only seventeen percent end of the time between February and
May twenty twenty five. In June, the CIRA provided quality
advice to just five percent of callers. Taxpayers waited an
average of thirty one minutes to reach a CIRA representative

(15:15):
by phone, that is more than double the service standards
set out by the agency. The Auditor General's report found
CRA staff were more concerned about hearing to schedules for
shifts and breaks than with accuracy and completeness of information
they provided to callers. The Auditor also found that taxpayers
were more likely to get accurate answers from the cira's

(15:37):
AI chatbot than from human agents. Concerning the Military Audit
FUNDI findings. On housing, the Auditor General looked at living
conditions in three Canadian forces Basis Esquimo and British Columbia,
Gagetown in New Brunswick and Trenton in Ontario. The report
found aging living quarters are often in serious states of

(15:59):
disrepair and deteriorating walls, a lack of drinking water, and
malfunctioning sewage systems. The audit also says the Canadian Forces
Housing Agency does not have enough residential units for what
the military needs, posing a challenge as the Canadian Armed
Forces look to add more than six thousand new members

(16:20):
by April twenty twenty nine. On recruitment, the CFA does
not have either sufficient numbers or sufficient basic training capacity.
Earlier today, I spoke to the Auditor General. Karen Hogan
is the Auditor General of Canada. She joins us today,
Miss Hogan, I think you have confirmed with the Audit

(16:43):
you have done, particularly on the Canada Revenue Agency, what
many Canadians know if they've called the agency, that there
are significant challenges. You highlight in your report. Only eighteen
percent of calls answered, eight point six million calls deflected,
and perhaps the most grating thing for Canadians, responses to

(17:06):
questions of individuals only seventeen percent of the time were accurate.
Tell us about how you got this information and how
it relates to other information. The Auditor General's offices acquired
on CIRA.

Speaker 6 (17:21):
Before absolutely so. We first audited the quality of the
service at the Canada Revenue Agency contact centers back in
twenty seventeen, and so this was a follow up to
see if they had made any improvements. And what we
found was that callers to the agency's contact centers often
faced long wait times. As you said, in twenty twenty

(17:42):
four to twenty five, only eighteen percent of the calls
met their service standard of fifteen minutes. In fact, people
waited twice as long this year than they waited last
year in order to get to an agent. Now, to
assess the accuracy of those responses, we actually called the
contact center and we were able to conclude that when

(18:03):
you were calling about an individual general tax question, they
were accurate only seventeen percent of the time, but if
you were calling about business taxes or about benefits, that
jump to over fifty percent of the time. So it
just shows you that there's a long way to go
to making sure that agents have the right tools to
help improve the service that they provide to callers.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
And unlike other organizations that many of us call to
get invation from, they don't say CRI doesn't tell you
about how much time you have to wait. They don't
provide real time updates, do they.

Speaker 6 (18:37):
Well, actually, something new from the twenty seventeen added is
the new telephone system does provide you with information on
where you sit in the weight line, so in the queue,
but it doesn't provide updates afterwards. And in fact, we
tested what was posted on their website as potential wait
times and what they told you on the telephone, and
we found that we often waited longer than that. So

(19:00):
it doesn't give you real time updates, which means that
people can't decide if they want to sit on hold
or if they want to choose a self service option
or hang up and try again later.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, you do have to wonder with yesterday's story about
two hundred and eighty five thousand people calling for Blue
Jays tickets, what's more infuriating getting in that Blue Jays
line or calling the CIRA and not getting served after
sixty minutes? Tell us about why from the information you gleaned,
there is a problem providing the right answer and the

(19:32):
volume isn't managed as well as it could be.

Speaker 6 (19:36):
Well, we don't have all the answers, I'm sure there's
lots of reasons that contribute to this, and obviously the
number of agents has an impact on timeliness and quality
of service. But what we did find is that some
of the tools that they're using aren't helping them be
more efficient. So the average call with an agent takes
about seventeen minutes, but an individual will spend almost thirty

(19:58):
percent of that on hold as an agent searches for
answers to questions. So there's an opportunity to leverage technology
there to improve efficiencies. But I think more important is
that less than ten percent of an agent's performance evaluation
is geared to look at the accuracy and completeness of
the responses, and in my view, that just doesn't encourage

(20:19):
a strong commitment to quality service. When you're focused more
on adherence to schedule and call.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Volume, Yeah, that is not something that's going to help
the caller if the person answering the call isn't as
focused on their issue as they are particular schedule. The
other thing that stood out for me that hasn't got
a lot of mainstream reporting is the agreement which IBM
that you talk about in there. I've signed in twenty

(20:46):
fifteen for fifty million dollars to provide a phone platform
for the Tax Agency and two other departments. By twenty
nineteen balloon to one hundred and ninety million, and now
it looks like two hundred and fourteen million through twenty
twenty seven. What can you tell us about that, Well.

Speaker 6 (21:02):
This is a unique way to contract for telephone services
and Shared Services Canada had a competitive process in IBM
one that in order to provide contact center services for
these three departments. It was Shared Services Canada, Employment and
Social Development Canada, and the Canada Revenue Agency. And I

(21:23):
can think everyone can imagine that back in twenty fifteen,
no one could predict the pandemic and that there would
be so many support payments and that there would be
such a surge in calls to the Canada Revenue Jay
Agency as a result of that. So I think some
of that increase is attributable to that, and we can
all understand that. But when it comes to the rest,
this is where I had some concerns. I saw many

(21:44):
invoices that were just not scrutinized properly, that neither the
Canada Revenue Agency nor Shared Services Canada were making sure
that the charges were accurate, and there was enough red
flags that I will be starting another audit to look
at the management of this contract to help inform the
new one that will start in twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Important to do so, obviously, let's move on to the
audit you did on housing and recruitment among the Canadian
Armed Forces. You looked at living conditions three major Canadian bases,
the Squimal, Gauge Town and Trenton, and you found the
living quarters are often in serious states of repair disrepair.
What can you tell us about this?

Speaker 6 (22:24):
Yeah, so we wanted to look at how the Armed
Forces was doing at recruiting new members, but then importantly
to help retain them, how they were managing their housing.
And we found that they were not managing housing in
a way that would meet their needs but also not
meet the needs of Canadian Armed Forces and their members.
So you're right. We visited three bases and what we

(22:46):
found there is that thirty two out of thirty five
of the buildings on the base were in need of
at least one high priority repair. Only five percent of
those were done by the end of our audit. And
what I mean priority repair, I'm talking about things like
making sure the water in the building is safe to use,
so it's possible whether the toilets were functioning properly. In

(23:09):
some cases there was exterior walls, so structural issues that
needed repairs. And those are the kind of living conditions
you and I wouldn't want us to live in, and
I don't think the kind of living conditions we would
expect our Canadian Armed Forces members to live in.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Got about a minute and a half, but I want
to focus on this one because there's a lot of
good coverage yesterday of what you found as it relates
to recruitment challenges. But maybe Auditor General I sit on
too many audit committees, but this one just leaped out
for me. The audit also found the forces planning for
housing unit is based in requirements set in twenty nineteen
using local housing market data from twenty eleven, with targets

(23:46):
for soldiers as of twenty twenty four, just for the
average person. Why is that so problematic for planning?

Speaker 6 (23:53):
Well, very problematic when you're using outdated information to plan
for the future. Though that information doesn't even consider the
fact that the Canadian Armedforces would like to recruit even
more member than they set out in twenty nineteen. When
you don't have up to date information, or you're not
even updating it on a regular basis, chances are you

(24:15):
won't have enough funding or enough resources to meet the
needs that you'll need in the future. And when it
comes to recruiting, it does take time to find people,
and if you're trying to build houses, there's a long
lead time to build those, so you do need to
plan ahead with more accurate.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Information, so vital, particularly as we are doing a lot
of planning and investment in the Canadian Armed Forces. Karen Hogan,
Auditor General of Canada, thank you for joining us today.

Speaker 6 (24:44):
Thanks for the invitation that was of.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Course, Karen Hogan. Now I've got a traffic update for you.
There has been a traffic accident on the TCCH in
the area of Briggis Junction. RCMP have closed the TCCH westbound,
but traffic eastbound is now getting through. There is a
detour through Avondale for westbound traffic which will re establish

(25:07):
the TCH via the Conception Bay Highway and Roaches Line.
Several police cars and ambulances are on the scene. Stay
with us for more updates when we come back. General
Tom Lawson reacts to those audits from the Auditor General
here on the.

Speaker 7 (25:22):
Tim Power Show, National Defense did not have enough living
spaces at the right locations, including quarters that meant its
own standard for living space per person. We also found
that some buildings were in poor condition, lacking basic amenities
such as safe drinking water or working toilets.

Speaker 8 (25:44):
I really really want to thank the Auditor General for
pointing out the areas where we can make continuous improvement,
and we're doing that. We're finding new ways to be
more creative and more speedy. For example, just last week
we purchased a thirty seven apartment building in a Squimalt
p see, something that the department had not done before.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
First voice you heard was Karen Hogan, the Auditor General.
The second Minister of National Defense David McGuinty. The third
is mine to talk to us about this really pleased
to be joined by retired General Tom Lass and former
Chief of the Defense Staff the Canadian Armed Forces, General Lawson.
Any of this surprise you.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
No, not at all. Tim. You know it's always important
when the Auditor General takes her teams and sends them
out to look at really important things like this. But
if I was still in uniform or reading these reports,
I'd say to tell me something, we don't know. We're
seized with these things, and there are clear explanations of

(26:42):
how we got ourselves into these holes, and it's a
little less clear of how quickly we can get back
out of them.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
I mean, I harken back to one of your predecessors,
General Hillier, who I know and who you know, and that,
of course was the period where we're supposed to come
out of the Decade of Darkness, and that is in
mister Martin's government time. So over twenty years ago. Has
there been unhousing Has there been anything substantive that's changed

(27:13):
in that twenty year period between the so called decade
of Darkness ending and where we find ourselves now.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
No, clearly not, and the Auditor General's team found that.
Let me just say something about what the Chief of
Defense and our leadership team do with the funding that
the armed forces are given. When it gets as low
as it has gotten, not only since when you're twenty two,
but even years after that. It dropped during my period
almost as low as one percent of the gross domestic product.

(27:44):
It's back up to about one point three on its
way up to two and then maybe someday even three
and a half that's what's being advertised. But back when
it's that low, you take the money and you put
it towards readiness, getting soldiers ready to do what they
need to do, and equipment and things like housing. Well,
you know, you let it stand and it becomes breakdown maintenance.

(28:07):
But now you know, with the investment that's being advertised,
they can really deal with these things.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, and I think it's an important point you just
made before we move to the future. I mean, you
and others who served in their role have rightly argued
about we need bullets, we need you know, treads for
our tanks. If we're going to send men and women
into combat zones, they need to be able to defend themselves.
So housing falls behind and all of that. How quickly

(28:38):
then general loss and I mean the government is talking
about getting up to nine billion, I believe this year.
How quickly before this filters down into things like housing
and recruitment.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, it's already starting to tim but it'll take a while.
You know, the Canadian Forces housing authorready was doing the
best they could with what they were given, which was
very very little. And now with the money flowing into
the military, they can do not only those that list
of things, very important things that you just laid out,

(29:11):
but also focus on other things, which is quality of
life for soldiers, sailors, and airmen and women, and that
will include upgrading housing for married people and barracks for
single But you know, one more point that that dates
back to when Rick Hillier was around. We were moving
away from military housing. In those years. We were trying

(29:34):
to encourage people in uniform to buy on the economy,
to rent on the economy, to build equity that would
help them later on and kind of move out of
older military housing. And that worked pretty well until Canada's
housing market went nuclear and you know where we see
it today, and then it became very difficult to balance

(29:55):
a soldier's pay with the cost of accommodation. So, you know,
moving back into this area of military housing is something
we've been out of for quite a few years. We've
got to get back into it.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Recruitment. I know, again, every CDs has worked on this
with the limited resources that you rightly point out you
had at the time. Because the Canadian Forces are still
the Canadian Forces, we require them so often one out
of every thirteen Canadians who applied online to join the
Armed forces was successfully recruited. What what do you think

(30:29):
is going on there? It's hard to imagine that there
was only one good recruit. What what might you glean
from that data point?

Speaker 5 (30:37):
Right?

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Well, you know, first of all, I would say that,
you know, it starts to show that there's a lot
of interest, you know, if you take the upside, a
lot of interest out there and what a military career
might look like. But you know, when the economy's good,
you know, these careers, although they look exciting, they also
look tough and they are a little bit you know,

(30:59):
I had a forty year career and they're great careers,
but they require you to maintain a level of fitness
and be away from the family sometimes. And if there
are a lot of easier careers out there that pay
at least as much and maybe more, well, you know,
with the economy doing as well as has been doing
ever since the pandemic recovery, maybe you take those jobs.

(31:21):
I think what the Canadian Armed Forces has been doing
ever since. When Bill Blair mentioned a couple of years
ago that we've been in a death spiral and military recruitment.
They've been seized with this and trying lots of things,
but there are no quick fixes, no magic fixes. A
whole bunch of things have been put in place, and
the Ouitor General even says in her report, we recognize

(31:44):
that you have put a lot of things in place,
and we haven't had chance to look at those. But
you know what would really make the big change is
the thing we don't want to happen, and that is
some sort of a minor or even major recession in
which a lot of jobs disappear and and then a
career in the military looks like a really good option.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
As you know, I come from a part of the
world new from London, Labrador, where military careers have long
been lauded and sort of sought after, not just because
of the steady income they provide, but because they are
seen as important roles, much like your forty years of service.
People value what you did and they value what they

(32:26):
were doing. Look that these recruiting numbers nineteen thy seven
hundred between twenty twenty two and twenty twenty five, but
recruited only around fifteen thousand recently. How I mean, if
you're offering advice to the government with some of the
things you've put out there, How do they get these
numbers up?

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, well, they're doing I'll tell you some of the
things that they've done that I think were creative. And
I have to admit that when I was chief at
Defense ten years ago, I didn't have this problem. We
were in a nine flow between intake and out and
we were pretty balanced off. You know, there's no doubt
about it. The pandemic. That pandemic put us in this deficit.

(33:06):
But I think that some of the things they've done.
You know, all the stuff for recruiting is now online.
You used to have to travel to the recruiting center
and speak to big, burly, scary sergeants, and now you
can do a lot of that stuff online. They've been
very creative with putting people on sort of probationary periods
where they can do their basic training even while their

(33:28):
security clearances are underway and tim it can take so
long to do these security clearances because it's very, very important.
We don't want people with malicious intent getting into our
most secret military areas, but we don't mind training them
up for the first year or two while that very
important process takes place, you know, things like that, and

(33:49):
things like the military upping to pay for recruits and
lower ranks by up to twenty percent. Now these things
will all add up to more successful recruit and and
of course if if there is some sort of minor recession,
you know, this will almost be solved.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Got thirty seconds, hard thirty seconds on this one. General
Basic Training with government CF does apparently have the capacity
right now. Lots of debates over the past about do
you need to train change training standards in the thirty
seconds I can give you, what do you say.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
I think we've got better be very very careful about that.
Certainly change how you how you're training people to match
you know, how it's received by the latest generations. Absolutely,
but physical fitness remains a key part of military service
and and the uh, you know, the high levels that

(34:46):
we require of our technicians have to remain high.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
All right, great to talk to you as always, General Lawson,
thank you for your time today, right, Jim. Thanks all right.
Moving to another important initiative, something being done by the
community sector of Newfoundland and the Labrador they're announcing that
they are through the social acquisition through the CEDAR program
of two Whales coffee shop acquired by Table and Cooperative

(35:14):
to talk to us about that. We're joined by Andre
LeBlanc and Lindsay Hines from Social from Social Ventures at
the Community Sector Council. Start with you, Andre, what is
the CEDAR program and how was it used here.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
Hither? Thanks for having us on. So the Social Enterprise
through Acquisition program we do two things. First, we connect
with small business owners in rural Ufland, Labrador that are
looking to have an exit maybe you know, to sell
their business and move on to the next part of
their journey. And we connect them with community organizations, so

(35:54):
folks like nonprofits, volunteer groups and help the community organizations
acquire a business so that they can have a source
of revenue and become more sustainable for their mission. And
also help our rural communities by avoiding a business closure
that can affect essential services.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
And I love this story here, Lindsay. This two Whales
that was an important is an important community? How been
tourism business import Rexton? And we're seeing something we talk
about a lot but don't often bring to fruition. It's
been bought by a worker owned cooperative. Tell us about
that and why that presents hope for Two Whales.

Speaker 9 (36:37):
Sure so, well, thanks to our partner. Are they Missionlane
and Laborator Federation or cooperatives? Are they actually help these
folks create the cooperative in order to purchase the business.
So what's really important is these folks who are part
of the co op, most of them have been working
at Two Whales First quite some time, since they were teenagers.
And as the business is looking to be sold, it's

(36:59):
because a family. We actually were out in Port Rexston
last night for a celebration and the heartwarming stories of
these folks really focusing on keeping this business within the
group of people have been working there for a really
long time and sustaining the community of Port Rexton has been,
you know, so important. Families have been involved, community members

(37:20):
have been involved, and so they developed that cooperative in
order to keep that business in with the employees.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah, and I love the name table a cooperative fits
that eight owners and there you have it, Audrey. For
people who are listening and maybe are like David Ellison
and Sue asked with who were retiring and we're putting
their business up for sale, what are the sort of
requirements for access to the seeder program.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
Yeah, a great question, And first of all, shout up
to David and Sue, two great business owners that built
a great business and really stewarded the transition. They've done
really great work. So for folks that are considering succession planning,
a great first step is just to start thinking about
what it could look like for a transition. You know,
there's a lot of things involved. Folks might have in mind.

(38:11):
Who a good uh you know person to transition a
business to the ideal buyer in mind would be. We're
happy to kind of move folks through that process. So
with the Seed of Program, succession planning is a big focus.
So if anyone is interested in something like that, they
can find us at our website uh C, s C

(38:32):
NL dot ca A. We're a very one on one
focus program. You know, we help folks get to readiness
and we're also a bit of a matchmaker, So we
connect business owners that are looking for sale to uh
you know, a buyer that would have an idea to
move a business through it's next stage with a community lens.
And so one way I like to think about it

(38:54):
is that we help business owners that are looking for
sale connect with a set of buyers that they wouldn't
normally interact with. So it's a great good.

Speaker 5 (39:02):
There, Lindsay.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Last question for you, is a program like this one
SEDA the future providing huge future opportunity for rural Newfoundland
where there are businesses like David and Sues that probably
are going to come to a place where they want
to want to sell and have the opportunity to make
some money off of it and have the community keep
what they have.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (39:25):
I think really from a Community Sector Council perspective, for
rural communities to continue to thrive and survive, we really
need to look at innovative solutions. So the THETA program
is really that, and we have a bunch of other
programs within the Community Sector Council and we react to
the needs of the community. So I think that these
innovative ways of doing things are community led and that's

(39:49):
really what we're going to see moving forward.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
Well, I was glad this story came my way today.
I think it's awesome. Involved in some small businesses myself.
Not that I need the program yet, guys, but I
I love seeing what you're doing. Andre, Lindsay, thanks for
the time.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Today, Thank you, Thanks so much all right when.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
We come back, We've got a report from Russell Bauers
and the new healthcare hub. Back with that in a moment.

Speaker 5 (40:13):
The Tim Power Show.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Join the conversation weekday afternoons at four pm on your VOCM.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
A new healthcare hub opened yesterday in Saint John's. The
facility is located at the former Costco building on Stefanger Drive.
Patients can head there for a range of out patients services.
The goal is to create a central place for some
appointments and also to ease traffic and congestion at the
city's major hospitals. Doctor Greg Brown, former Rugby teammate and

(40:40):
friend of mine, is the clinical lead for healthcare Infrastructure
with nl Services. He spoke to vio Sam's Russell Bauers.

Speaker 10 (40:48):
With something like this, and particularly where it's located, there
is probably a burning question that people will want to
know before they go to this new health hub. Will
there continue to be free parking?

Speaker 5 (41:00):
Yes, absolutely so. Yeah, there's one major improvement that everyone
will see right away, patients and staff. It's going to
be the prayerking situation.

Speaker 10 (41:11):
Yes, I know, that's probably a win for you right
out of the gate. So for a new health hub,
like this. I know things are going to be rolling
out over the next little while, but what's initially available
at this new facility.

Speaker 5 (41:25):
Yep, so kind of with our first phase of openings.
We have a variety of specialist clinics, so medical and
surgical specialties and subspecialties. We have some diagnostic imaging, so
cardiac diagnostic imaging as well as X ray and ultrasounds

(41:47):
soon to come, and within the next few weeks lab
Collection expanded diagnostic imaging services and a few other specialist
clinics as well.

Speaker 10 (42:00):
I guess over the next what four five, six months,
will start to see things that you would have gone
to the health sciences for or for Saint Clair's. That
stuff will start to reposition over to Steffanger.

Speaker 5 (42:12):
Yeah, I mean it's starting now and the pro there'll
be more and more of over the next couple of
months as we expand our services there.

Speaker 10 (42:20):
I want to ask just a little bit about mobility.
I mean, most people in the city will have cars
or some way to get out to this facility, but
for anyone who relies on the bus it might not
be as amenable for their services. What was the thinking
behind putting this particular facility at Stefanger. I know you
had an empty building waiting there to be occupied. Was

(42:43):
that the main reason why some of these things are
moving to Steffanger, So I mean.

Speaker 5 (42:49):
That that was a consideration, but there was a number
of considerations, so accessibility, you know, being on city bus routes,
or even gauge with the city about this as to
whether that's optimal or whether it can be optimized further.
But it also it had there's a certain size that
was required. Okay, we're in over eighty thousand square feet.

(43:13):
We needed a facility that was going to be available
within a within a couple of years. Okay, we couldn't
wait ten years for this thing. And it needed to
be accessible to both the health sciences and Saint Claire's
as well, because you have to remember that a lot
of our staff are our medical staff particularly, might actually

(43:36):
have to attend services at one of those one of
those facilities as well. And just to give you an example,
I'm the vascular surgeon. I was up to on Thursday
and got called to an emergency at Saint Claire's Thursday afternoon.
So the facility had to be accessible to the health
sciences in Saint Claire's.

Speaker 10 (43:56):
I know urgent care is also going to be part
of the plan for this location, so a couple things.
Would that mean that some ambulances, depending on what you've got,
will take you to this new facility. Or if you
think you've got to go to emergency instead of going
to one of the hospitals, you'd go to this place.
How will the public sort that out?

Speaker 5 (44:18):
Yeah? I think for the most part, if you are
in a situation where an ambulance is required, you're going
to be brought to an emergency department as opposed to
the urgent care center, okay or the ambulatory clinic. Okay,
The opposite is not true and out. In fact, yesterday
morning we had our first experience where a patient got
into trouble there and was evacuated to one of the

(44:42):
hospitals via ambulance. So these are things that happen, and
we have a contingency in place for that and it
worked out very well.

Speaker 10 (44:53):
Now, I was talking about this here on the radio,
so people are aware of it. I had a bit
of a health issue last month, but I've got do
a follow up with my specialist, and he was saying
that he's not sure yet if I'm going to be
going back to his clinic at the Health Sciences Center,
or if I'll be going to this new facility on
Sefanger depends on when he actually moves in. So how

(45:15):
much will people who will need to be in contact
with a healthcare specialist to make sure that they're going
to the right place if they've got follow up appointments
in the next few months.

Speaker 5 (45:27):
Yep. So what I would suggest people do is read
their clinic, you know, the notification that came in the mails,
very very carefully, or if they've been notified by telephone,
listen very carefully and make note very carefully where your
appointment is because it may well not be in the
place that you usually have appointments as this changes and

(45:49):
rolls out. Certainly the notifications that we've been sending out
for the past couple of months, if the new appointment
was scheduled at the hub, then that would be indicated
on the nullification that people got.

Speaker 10 (46:01):
Just one other quick thing I want to ask you about,
doctor Brown. I know there's a new facility being built
on tops of road near Black Marsh, and as best
you can do you have a sense of when that
will be open to the public or when it will
be able to accept people who need medical care.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
Yep, so that's the second urgent care center. So we
have East End, West End and that that should open
before the end of the year.

Speaker 10 (46:28):
And will either of these facilities get names, because I mean,
we all know HSC or the Health Science the Center,
we all know Saint Clair's. Will these names be given
something distinctive so that people will know where they're going
or have a better sense of where they're going.

Speaker 5 (46:43):
Yeah, So the Advitary Health Hub, the Costco building is
being called the Unity Health Center. Okay, now that's that's
by the owners of the facilities somewhere the nl Health
Services and Inventory Hub at the University Unity Health Center.
At the moment, you know, the urgent care center at

(47:05):
the end of black Marsh Road would be the West
End Urgent Care Center. I don't know if I don't
think there's plans to have additional naming on it, but
that alone should should should help people, you know, in
terms of where to go. And again, the urgent care

(47:26):
centers are dropping, you know, on schedule services, so people
need to be aware that they're there, but nothing will
be coming in the mail to just say to go
to this particular center of that particular center under our
current plans.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
And that was our Russell Bauers talking to doctor Greg Brown.
Thank you for listening today, Thank you to Claude, Thank
you to Dave Williams. Back tomorrow with more of the
Tim Power Show.