Beth & Wayne [Part 2 of 2]: Can They Find A New Way Forward?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters this podcast was recorded on. This podcast has been
produced with the strongest regard for the wellbeing of our participants,
all of whom have chosen to share their biggest relationship
struggles in the hopes of helping other people. All participants
have been provided with resources and opportunities for ongoing support.

(00:38):
Welcome back to This is Why we fight, real people,
real problems, real therapy.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
My name is Sarah Bays.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'm a clinical psychotherapist with over a decade of training
working with individuals, couples, and families. This is part two
of my sessions with Beth and Wayne, who are trying
to learn how to communicate more openly and honestly with
each other after Beth's ADHD diagnosis and Wayne's ongoing chronic pain,
which have had an impact on their relationship. The homework

(01:07):
I assigned for them was for Wayne to observe what
frustration feels like in his body to help him build
his awareness of his emotions, and for him to practice
bringing up small issues right then and there to build
his tolerance for raising problems. I asked Beth to watch
out for moments where she gets the urge to step
in and overfunction and to reflect on what's driving it.

(01:29):
If you haven't listened to the first session yet, go
back and start there.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Let's jump back in.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Here's Beth and Wayne. Wayne and Beth. It's lovely to
see you guys again.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Sarah, thank you for having us.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, so I'm really keen to hear what's happened over
the last week since I saw you in terms of
obviously this homework to check in on, but there could
also be other things you've noticed, observed thoughts that came up.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
After last session.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Sometimes things kind of pop up as we process later on. So, yeah,
whoever wants to kind of start with Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:05):
I think we were kind of talking about this on
our way over that we haven't had that much time together.

Speaker 6 (02:14):
This week, so that's been a little bit challenging.

Speaker 5 (02:18):
Yeah, we've had like really busy work weeks, both of us,
just with different things. So as far as actually having
the time to identify these things, that's probably been our
biggest challenge.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:31):
I think we've been very mindful though, like whenever sort
of something does come up, we've sort of stopped and
had to chat about it, which has been good. But yeah,
I feel like you've probably had more homework than I did.
I think for me, the only thing I found really
funny was that I was intentionally trying to take that

(02:52):
step back and not sort of, you know, control everything.
I found though that that in turn meant that I
got to the end of this week and I've realized
I've actually there's things have not been actioned that need
to be actioned. Ah, and so it was a bit
of a catch twenty two. That's been a little bit. Yeah,

(03:15):
it's been a bit tricky to figure out, like what
what to take a step back from and what to
you know, what's urgent, what actually has to happen, and
what is maybe just a nice to have. I think
maybe that's sort of what I was struggling to identify.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Is there a missing link then between because the point
of view stepping back or not overfunctioning for Wayne is
so that Wayne does the thing. Yeah, so is there
something missing there where I've stepped back, But whether I've
communicated that to Wayne or not, so it does Wayne
know that he's you know that You're like, well, I

(03:52):
usually do this, but I'm actually not going to be
doing that, or I.

Speaker 5 (03:56):
Think I think, yeah, I think we've communicated pretty well.
I think, yeah, maybe I sort of overcorrected, like I
think he knew what he's responsibility was. I think I
probably just, yeah, over corrected episode slightly. I can think
of one example, like we've just got a we've got
a form that we have to submit and there's a

(04:17):
multi step process and I was responsible for a certain
portion of it, and then Wayne is responsible for the
follow up. And I think in him sort of really
taking on his role and making sure that you know,
he set up all the things he needed to do
from like a logistics perspective, which typically I would probably

(04:38):
have more of a role in. I then sort of
almost forgot about.

Speaker 6 (04:44):
My part that I needed to play.

Speaker 5 (04:47):
And now it's gotten to the point where and because
he organized something that I would usually do, I think
because that step was missing for me in my brain,
I was like, Oh. Then it got to the end
of the week and we had a conversation and Wayne said, hey,
have you done this thing?

Speaker 2 (05:05):
I was like, oh, okay, it's not that it's not
that you've stepped back and Wayne hasn't stepped forward it's
that Wayne stepped forward, you've stepped maybe two steps back. Yeah,
and there's now like you're part of things that wasn't
getting done.

Speaker 5 (05:19):
I also think the way that because I know, particularly
with the ADHD, that I can be very forgetful and
I can sort of have a bit of time blindness,
I tend to do things in a very regimented, structured
pattern to make it make sense so that I will
remember things. And I think because there was a part

(05:41):
of that process that changed and was handed over to
someone else, my brain just went, Okay, it's done, I've
done yeah, and just checked out. So I guess that's
the only thing that I sort of had feedback on
from that.

Speaker 6 (05:54):
Wayne very happily stepped.

Speaker 5 (05:56):
Into whatever needed to be done, and I mean, to
be fair, he usually does.

Speaker 6 (06:02):
I think it.

Speaker 5 (06:03):
Was more like you were probably more conscious of just
getting the stuff done that you needed to do. But yeah,
I think it was funny because I lost a part
of the process and then my brain lost that connection.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah to the end goal. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
So okay, and this is that really typical sort of
all or nothing. I'm either doing it all or I
am doing none of us, yes, which is yeah, very
difficult to kind of get to that middle ground where
how do I create a whole new process where I
do my parts of this job, but then I know
where I stop and allow Wayne to do that I
don't have to overfunction or like kind of take over

(06:43):
the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah. So this would be like a good sort of practice,
makes perfect kind of thing, isn't it. But it's interesting
where you know, step one is we do the overcorrect
that's very common.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
So yeah, doing this now I do the complete opposite
of that, and then that doesn't work well, and then
we slowly find our way back to the middle of like, Okay,
this is the spot of what I'm actually trying to
aim for.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, so it could be interesting to keep I would
be keep doing that process, and yes, it might mean
a few more times of like oh I've forgotten to
do so, but there'll be I guess your brain is
going to be working out a new way of creating
a system.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah. That isn't all or nothing, Yeah, which I think
I know.

Speaker 5 (07:23):
I'm like I struggle with I struggle with the like
I either have to have complete control or nothing otherwise
I find it really difficult to keep on top of things,
so I think, but I know that's not necessarily a
healthy thing to do. I think, I just, yeah, that's
definitely something I need to work on, is yeah, trying

(07:44):
to sort of find a healthy middle ground that also
gives way in.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
The opportunity to be a.

Speaker 5 (07:52):
Part of a process, because it's not even that he
doesn't want to help or do things. It's more that
I can be quiet.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
You've taken over. Yeah, you're doing it all.

Speaker 5 (08:02):
Yeah, and I am effective when I do that as well.
Like it does work, but it's not necessarily always the best.

Speaker 7 (08:10):
I was just going to chime in and say that
your effectiveness, your track record, and the way that you've
just worked, and we will play a role in our families, right,
Like there are some who are better at some things
than other things. And in our wider family, bet as
that person that when she's got it, it's you know,
dog with a bone. When she's got that bone, it's

(08:31):
when everyone around her knows it's going to be done.
The job's going to get done, and it's going to
get done well, but not just well. It's not going
to take three four weeks or preclude like a protracted
amount of time. It's going to get done efficiently, effectively,
and everyone has that assurance so that when you cut
and paste that formula again and again and again for

(08:52):
the majority of your life, you do find yourself into it,
you know, in that role, whether or not that that's
what you want, you know, or whether or not that
reaches a level of burnout, or whether it makes you
feel any more anxious than it needs to. That's I
guess we'll probably trying to delve into. But but no,

(09:16):
I mean, certainly for this this time that we've had
since seeing you last, what I've noticed about birth is that, Yeah,
I think she's really effectively tried to.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
The opposite of overfunctions.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Well well, and we don't want her to un Yeah,
but maybe.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Even step step back.

Speaker 7 (09:35):
Step back, Yeah, which has been great, But it's certainly different.

Speaker 4 (09:40):
To like, yeah, I guess the normal role.

Speaker 7 (09:43):
That we find ourselves having in our family, in our
dynamic but also our wider family as well.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, And that's interesting you talking about that, because there
is a ripple effect. When any of us change our
usual default behavior or our usual default reactions, there is
this kind of ripple effect on the rest of the family,
and it can be your immediate or the wider.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Family, depending on how entrenched your role is. So that
does make sense, and sometimes it does mean that other.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
People have to shift a little bit as well, Like
that ripple effect means that everybody has to kind of recalibrate.
We'll hang on, if Beth's not always doing the thing
she always does, then I can't keep doing the thing
that I always do. I have to do something a
little different. Yeah, and sometimes that causes a little bit
of like ruffling or feathers. Like, not everybody will be
happy with that if there's people that rely on or

(10:30):
expect or will benefit from whatever role we were.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Playing for so long. So yeah, that is interesting. But
I guess the main.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Thing is really if we're talking about reducing some of
that load on you, Beth, and even just in your household,
but maybe the wider family, but reducing that load so
that the overwhelming the emotional regulation stuff will also reduce,
because I think that was where we also talked about

(11:00):
that disconnect with how you know, you can get quite
emotional about things and Wayne is not emotional about things,
and we're trying to close that gap a little bit,
and part of that for you will be lessening the
overwhelm and the load so that we're more regulated. That's
part of the emotional regulation piece.

Speaker 5 (11:19):
Yeah, and I think it is, like it's a bit
of a it's an interesting time for us at the moment,
Like you know, we're gearing up to go away, so
you know, work's been extra hectic leading up to that,
and then yeah, all the logistics that come with that
and yeah, yeah, so it's it's been an interesting sort
of week as well to trial something like this when

(11:43):
we've got so much going on. But yeah, definitely something
to sort of revisit and yeah, try and find it
more of a happy middle.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (11:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
And in terms of Wayne, if we just flick over
to you for the homework bits and pieces, what, yeah,
what did you notice?

Speaker 1 (12:02):
What did you see happen or not happen?

Speaker 7 (12:04):
Yeah, Well, you'll be pleased to know that over this
week I thought about you a lot in the sense
that I was very mindful. I was you know, your
words from what I needed to do and think about
this week were very prevalent in my head.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
So I did a lot of thinking.

Speaker 7 (12:26):
I found myself in moments a lot more and I
certainly found myself thinking about thinking about what I'm thinking about.
So it was this really there's a little thing semptioned
and sort of situation. But I think I found one
of the one of the pieces of I guess homework

(12:47):
that you gave was how do I feel frustration, you know,
when I'm in that moment and to sit in it
and to I guess.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
Talk about it.

Speaker 7 (12:59):
I found that in this short period of time we've
had away from you, there wasn't a high level of frustration.
There wasn't this one peak point, yeah that I had,
which at the outset, I must say, is probably a credit,
you know, like our workings, it's complementary, I think, to

(13:19):
our our set up.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Our marriage relationship. Which then made me think about in
the past.

Speaker 7 (13:28):
So because I didn't have a direct example of a
peak frustration point in this time period, So what did
I have in the past that had sort of caused
a bit of a you know spark? And I think
I thought, I thought back and I remembered that my
I asked a question like, why couldn't this have been

(13:50):
done differently? You know, if I did get frustrated, if
Beth did something, and you know, the spark blows off
in your head and you go ah, Like why didn't
Beth just ask me or if this was going to
be you.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
Know, removed or purged or moved.

Speaker 7 (14:09):
From one spot to the other or I don't know,
like you know, if a decision, let's call it X
decision was made.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Let's make it put attend. But let's just say, like
be through something in the bin that she should up or.

Speaker 6 (14:19):
Something like that, like excellent.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
I'm like, is that one that feels like I'm picking.

Speaker 6 (14:25):
Up a vibe?

Speaker 1 (14:26):
There's something about being put in the bin? Shouldn't know?

Speaker 4 (14:30):
The food in the bin is a is a great example.

Speaker 7 (14:34):
It has happened before, and we all have differing levels
of when something goes off, you know, so to speak,
and I in the past something like that has occurred,
and that very first thought is, well, what didn't Why
wasn't this question asked to me?

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Like Ohwayne, did you want this? Or you're going to
eat this?

Speaker 7 (14:57):
Thinking of doing anything with a blah blah blah, And
then I think about it. But then my next very
next thought is that, well it's in the bin, what
am I going to do about it? So I remember,
I find myself going to that next thought really quickly,
very quickly.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
You don't station.

Speaker 7 (15:17):
No, I don't because you know, and I think I
alluded to this before, is that it's spilt milk, it's.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
And it's such a small thing. Now.

Speaker 7 (15:26):
The kicker to this, I guess is that if that
small thing keeps happening and happening and happening and happening again,
then it.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
Becomes a big thing.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
And in the past, then when it does.

Speaker 7 (15:37):
Reach a point, you know where I guess your frustration
level is not just ten, fifteen, forty fifty and it's like, ah,
it's now at one hundred percent, plants and that, and
at that point.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
We have we've had these, you know, probably heated discussions.

Speaker 7 (15:54):
Yeah, and I think and I think at the end
of it, we both find ourselves in a really good spot.
It took, it may have taken how I've longed to
discuss it, and we probably discussed eighteen other different topics
in our in our marriage. But I think the time
spent then when we do have those big discussions let's
call them, is really worthwhile because we get somewhere, we

(16:18):
make some headway, and you know, either I say something
like you know, sorry, Beth, like this, there's no way
I should have been as frustrated. It's just X y Z,
it's not a big deal, and or you know, in
the past Beth has sort of gone like, you know, sorry, babe,
Like it could have been easy enough to just say, hey, babe,

(16:39):
I'm checking this out. It's definitely done. You know, it's
a science experiment by this stage sort of thing. And
then it avoids it diffuses we don't need to get
into that space. And I don't know whether you think
any differently on this if I just think.

Speaker 5 (16:55):
It's interesting that in your mind you've gotten to like
a resolution stage of that, but you've identified that you
don't sit in it.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yeah, yes, And I.

Speaker 5 (17:09):
Think I think that sometimes means that either you're really frustrated,
maybe unnecessarily so, because you've sat in it for like
as well, you haven't satten it. You've let the little
things accumulate over a period of time, or in your
mind you go, oh, it's in the bin, it's no
big deal, and then you don't have the conversation.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
And it's like I just shut the or I push
it deep.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
Yeah, you make the decision that it's not going to
be a conversation, and therefore it festers.

Speaker 7 (17:39):
And I think the only times I do that is
when say, for example, there's a bit more significance to it.
Now this might sound weird, but you know, if you
have labored to make something, for example, you've cooked it,
and you know I don't I don't like Beth is
the most amazing, quickest, most efficient, you know cook.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
So I do like to cook.

Speaker 7 (18:02):
But my cooking I would describe it as experimental in
the sense that I'm like, what's in the bridge today,
Let's make the most about it. It's a mindfulness project.
But yeah, so when I do cook, yeah, it can
be lengthy and it's a labor of what I think
is a labor of love. And then I like to

(18:23):
serve it up and look, it's gone different ways in
the past. But then yeah, to see that then possibly
if that is the thing to be chucked out, for example,
it's like, well, you know, I put in all this
effort and there's a bit more significance added to it,
or if it was this great meal that we bought,

(18:43):
because then the significance is there's there's a value, there's
like a money monetary value to it. So I think
then there's those layers on top, you know, to anyone
playing at home sort of thing, like my my background
is a migrant background, so there's always that layer too.
I never came, we never came, Our family never came
here with much at all.

Speaker 4 (19:05):
We had to.

Speaker 7 (19:06):
Build and and scrape. And you didn't waste what was
put on your plate. You ate everything that was in there.
You still had a healthy enough relationship with food because
you didn't really have much in the first place, but.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
You just didn't waste.

Speaker 7 (19:22):
And I think that thing of being resourceful with what
you've got, making things last, making money unfortunately doesn't grow.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
On the frees.

Speaker 7 (19:30):
And yeah, so I think there's all of these layers
that attach. So yes, someone objectively might see something just
going in the bin and that's that.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
But part it's interesting how you internalize it as like, oh, well,
it's just something in the bin. So you know, part
of you minimizes your value that's been challenged, because we're
talking here about a value around or a principle or
a value around not wasting, you know, being careful with
our resources and you know, not taking not techniques for granted.

(20:03):
So when you see things that's say in your sception.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Being thrown in the bin carelessly.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Or thoughtlessly or unneedingly, you know, without needing to be
that challenges your value of we don't waste, And I
think I.

Speaker 5 (20:19):
Challenge your values significantly. There's quite a few things, because
it also then sort of stems into you know, we
don't just put clothes in a Vinnie's bag willy nilly.
You know. Wayne will literally, you know, wear something until

(20:40):
it dies. He finds it very hard to justify purchasing
things for himself, and then the things that he does
have he takes very good care of.

Speaker 6 (20:52):
And I.

Speaker 5 (20:54):
Not that I'm careless, but I think it would come
across that way sometimes because I struggle to have the
same relationship with possessions that Wayne does. I just don't
view it in the same way. And also, yeah, we
just had a really different upbringing.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
Child different backgrounds.

Speaker 5 (21:14):
Yeah, I mean, for a lot of things, Wayne and
I have very similar values and opinions, but we had
a very very different childhood. And I think, yeah, I
think I do challenge those really important things in your mind.
And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think
it's just but those are probably the things that frustrate

(21:37):
you the most that when I look at it objectively,
I go, oh, it's not really that big of a deal,
you know, like that food was very clearly off, or
that food was you know, it had been sitting in
the fridge for a period of time that I would
team for it to not be safe to eat, or.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
Yeah, well another great example.

Speaker 7 (21:59):
You know, the more we talk about this this last
session as well, is that the more you raise or
you asked this question, the more I think about it.
Is Another thing is like a classic one I think
we've had a giggle about before, is but leaving a
room and leaving.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
A light on.

Speaker 7 (22:14):
Yah, yeah, yeah, I think this probably hits in there
with more.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
Yeah, I'm not alone, but you're not. But you know
my background.

Speaker 7 (22:25):
You know, I was born in Bombay in India, and
although so so Hindus, Hindus have a festival called Davali.
And I hope I'm saying that right because of a
lot of my friends and families say that I'm the widest.

Speaker 4 (22:40):
Indian ever seen. But Davali essentially is a festival of lights.

Speaker 5 (22:48):
Right.

Speaker 7 (22:49):
So sometimes sometimes you know, I may have been out
of the house and then I come back, weather it's
from work or from wherever, and there are just lights
of plenty all the light. Yeah, so I'm like, wow,
it's Davali around here. It's it's and it's a bit
of humour. And I know with Beth it's not malicious.

(23:12):
She doesn't. She as much as I. We don't want
our electricity bill going up.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
I know I know that.

Speaker 7 (23:19):
So I say it as a joke hopefully, and I
hope you see it. I think you do as well.
It breaks the tension, and for me it actually probably
rewires my brain more than anything else. I don't know
if you are aware of this or not, but for me,
it kind of goes well when it's not Again, it's not.

Speaker 4 (23:39):
A big deal.

Speaker 7 (23:40):
Probably a couple of dollars extra on the electricity bill.
It's not a big deal.

Speaker 6 (23:43):
But it's okay if it frustrates you.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
Look, I know I'm hearing you do this like full
circle thing where you're like, oh, this is kind of annoying,
but it's okay because of X y Z reason Like
it's yeah, and.

Speaker 7 (23:55):
I think maybe that's what that's what we're getting at
and what we're finding out more and more. But yeah,
you know, in that circumstance, if I was to come home,
I go, oh, this is that, and then I just
go and turn the lights off, and that, to me,
is the chapter closed.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, And then I want to check with Beth.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
I'm going to see a little smile on her face,
which tells me she's not so sure that chapter gets.

Speaker 5 (24:15):
Closed, because there is very much ongoing.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
After this short break.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
I'm going to discover more about Wayne's personal background and
how that's influenced his approach to challenging times.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Don't go away.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Beth was saying, she observes you seeming frustrated when you're
unaware of being frustrated, and then she kind of tries
to pick at you about it, like what's wrong or what,
and you're like nothing, nothing, nothing, and then eventually there
is something, so I'm not and this is Yeah, it's interesting,
and I'm sure sometimes the chapter is really closed, Like

(25:03):
I'm sure not every single thing is left festering for you,
But there obviously are some things that you may deem
as chapter closed that aren't.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
That I think is what best thought starts noticing.

Speaker 6 (25:15):
Yeah, And I think.

Speaker 5 (25:18):
Wayne is the kind of person where those kind of
things do like they stick in his brain.

Speaker 6 (25:24):
And I think sometimes the problem.

Speaker 5 (25:27):
Is it will it will then be used in an
argument in future, and.

Speaker 6 (25:32):
I that's what really.

Speaker 5 (25:34):
Gets me because I feel like, and no, I don't
expect you, you know, every time I do something that
you deem as careless, I wouldn't expect you to talk
to me about it every time. But I think there
are some things that frustrate you more than others, and
you struggle to even identify that in the first place,

(25:57):
let alone to place a value on you know, is
this worth talking about and so. But I also think
he just struggles to identify how.

Speaker 6 (26:06):
He actually feels about it.

Speaker 5 (26:08):
Yeah, And I think, very nicely, it's actually clouded by
the fact that he genuinely cares so much about me
and he doesn't want to hurt my feelings, he doesn't
want to upset me his I think there is like
an underlying fear of rejection or something along those lines

(26:31):
that I'm just gonna hate him if.

Speaker 6 (26:34):
It escalates into this big argument.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
And I think we spoke about you know, I sort
of probably underestimated Wayne's need for reassurance from me. But yeah,
I think there are a lot of times where you
are actually struggling to identify how that issue makes you feel,
and instead of figuring that out you sort of go, oh, well,
I'm just gonna you know, case closed, move on. There's

(26:58):
other things for me to put my attention into, which
there always is. We live a very busy life, you know,
we've got a small child. Yeah, there's you know, and
that also is a big factor as well. I think
in having conversations is we're very mindful of how we
behave in front of our son and the conversations we
have and the language that we use, so we might

(27:21):
be escalating and then both of us sort of go like,
we've got to we've this has to be We've got
a could opinion this, and we've got to talk about
another time. And then sometimes yeah, you do say does
it get talked about it? And yeah, sometimes you don't
because you just get so caught up in whatever else
is going on.

Speaker 7 (27:40):
And it's one of the challenges, you know, having a
little little body running around you, and you want to
do you want to be good role models and you
want to do the right thing.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
And yeah, so I mean, and I think this is
sort of a little bit part of what the homework
was last time. But to sort of add on to
it a bit would be trying to pay attention to
the things that do frustrate you, no matter how little
they are, and starting by naming them and talking about them,
even when they are potentially like really minimal and not

(28:11):
that important, and like as in an experiment to get
you used to being able to raise things that are
really not that big of a deal, because I know
you also mentioned the accident that you had that years
ago that helped, well, not helped, but that has put
things into perspective for you, and so sometimes almost nothing
really seems that level unless it's life or death, so

(28:34):
you can minimize things a lot. So we're trying to
do the opposite of that, where it's like every little
thing matters, every little annoying thing is worth raising. So
we're over correcting you to get you to swing back
into the middle because you're sort of on the end
of nothing really matters unless it's life and death.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
We want to get you to I'm winging about everything.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's where we want you because it's not natural for you,
but that will help bring you to more of a
middle ground of Okay, I can identify things that annoy me,
and I can healthily decide which ones I actually want
to do something about. But first we kind of need
you to do something about any annoyance that you noticed.
And we do this with the understanding that Beth is

(29:19):
aware of this and isn't just like why is he
criticizing me all the time?

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Or you know, why is this happening?

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, because it will be uncomfortable and feel unnatural and
silly as well. Yeah, this is an exercise and an experiment,
and not to be the end goal, but rather to
help you more with your awareness and comfortability in raising things.

Speaker 7 (29:42):
Yeah, I think it's good to go in with that
sort of a lens because there is so much my
new shir to it in a world that is so
big and for us, with so many other bigger challenges
and problems. And in saying all of that, the other
thing I did think of, you know, having these moments

(30:03):
during this last time since we saw you last, is.

Speaker 4 (30:07):
I have this thing.

Speaker 7 (30:10):
And my dad probably it probably comes from my dad,
who has this most amazing work ethic, and you know,
we've recently worked out I think he's pretty much worked
for the last fifty years basically.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
You know.

Speaker 7 (30:24):
And we're not talking a death job. We're talking manual
like laborious, hands on sort of work, wakes up at five,
comes back home past five, you know, and then it
comes home and cooks, because that's just how great of
a duty is. And so yeah, so I've had him

(30:46):
as a really great role model as well, and that
work ethic has just been passed down that I find
myself just find that I put myself last. So I
don't really do any quote unquote self help. Myself help
well being activity probably comes under the umbrella off cleaning.

Speaker 4 (31:08):
Yeah, cleaning.

Speaker 7 (31:10):
I was going to say, think, yeah, so cleaning is
my thing. You know, I love a clean household, and
you married, me married, and God said, here's your challenge.
But but no, be Beth is not.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
You're not unclean.

Speaker 7 (31:32):
I think we've just worked out that we both have
differing levels of how.

Speaker 4 (31:37):
We do things.

Speaker 7 (31:39):
But going back to like putting myself last, I would
just I like to be the last one up. I
like to make sure that you know the houses reset.
I get that, I think from my mum who liked
to do that as well. And then yeah, and it's
by the time it gets to okay, now I get
to sit on the couch and do something, it's like, oh,
hang on, it's actually like bedtime. I actually now need

(32:01):
to maybe spend that time in bed like with Beth
and that quality time, which then comes back to this
other layer of time management, which I think we sort
of touched on a little bit.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think we wanted we flag that is, let's go
into that.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (32:18):
So so that is a whole and I've given you
probably lots there in the last two minutes.

Speaker 4 (32:23):
But yeah, I put myself last.

Speaker 7 (32:25):
We have much grander challenges and I want to try
and do the best thing by Beth a little one,
all the people around us, and then myself.

Speaker 4 (32:36):
That's how I say it.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah, And what's interesting is that if you're not doing
the best for yourself, then can I do it automatically?

Speaker 4 (32:43):
Can't do you know? It's kind of like it's like
it's like first eight, isn't it.

Speaker 6 (32:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:47):
I've had a lot of conversations with Wayne about it
as well, because I think automatically, like when we had
our son My that was sort of the catalyst for
me figuring out what was going on with me, you know,
getting the ADHD diagnosis and multi will other diagnoses after
that as well. I think I realized at a certain

(33:11):
point that I couldn't be the best mum or the
best wife, or any of those things if I didn't
work on myself and figure out what was going on,
and I had to intentionally make time because it doesn't
come naturally. Like, especially as a parent, your default setting

(33:32):
is to do everything you possibly can to make sure
your child is happy and thriving, and then you think
about yourself, and then you've got a relationship to think
about and all of these other things. So it's natural
and I do it too, to put yourself at the
bottom of that list. But I've had a lot of

(33:52):
conversations with weighing around the fact that, yeah, it's actually
so detrimental to our son, to our relationship if he
doesn't start to find ways to carve out time for him.
And I've said to you, like, I am so happy
to you know, have our sun for periods of time,

(34:15):
like all all of the things that he needs to
do in order to facilitate those things happening.

Speaker 6 (34:22):
I think you just really are struggling.

Speaker 5 (34:24):
Still too, even consider.

Speaker 6 (34:29):
The idea of putting yourself first.

Speaker 5 (34:34):
Yes, like I think even the thought of going like
I can think about you know, Wayne's got a function
that he's going to tonight and even that it was
like a phone called text message, this whole process being
like are you sure you're okay?

Speaker 6 (34:55):
Do you want me?

Speaker 5 (34:56):
You know, like I feel bad because it's a weak
night and all of these things, and I was like, fine,
it's fine, Like it's really fine.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
You're like please go, yeah, do something nice for yourself.

Speaker 5 (35:07):
It's fine.

Speaker 6 (35:09):
And so it's not.

Speaker 5 (35:10):
And I know, I know it's not that Wayne thinks
I'm not capable or anything like that. It's purely that
he feels guilty that he's not putting his time into
us all the time. But actually, particularly since our son
has been born, you haven't done a lot for yourself

(35:31):
at all.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
And if we look.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
At this, this came up last time around the avoidance
of bringing things up with Beth because the idea that
it might ruin the day, and then we kind of
got to actually, it ruins your day more than it
ruins Beth's day in terms of if there's a bit
of a conflict or an issue, then the rumination and

(36:01):
overthinking happens, and that's unpleasant.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
And a lot of that is actually you.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Usually self deprecating, so usually about yourself or what I
need to do. Differently, how do I be better, you know,
whether there's any guilt around the conflict and having happened.
So this is sort of on that similar vein where
it's that doing something for myself feels like I'm doing
something wrong or I'm not being the best.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Dad, husband, whatever.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah, like there's this kind of like overthinking and over
responsibility for the people that I care about.

Speaker 7 (36:38):
Yeah, I think that's really well put. That's that's pretty
much it. I think I just want to make sure
that I'm present.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
Yeah, I think that is huge being present.

Speaker 7 (36:50):
Yeah, And you know, I mentioned the word present, and
it goes back to again my migrant experience and my
dad had to work overseas and my mum gave up
her job to raise my older sister and myself and
my dad worked overseas to basically provide put food on

(37:15):
the table, and so there's a lot that there is.
There is that sort of layer as well, in the
sense that that's.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Just what I want. We are.

Speaker 7 (37:27):
I'm grateful and we're lucky enough to be in this
position now, you know, here where I can be present.
I don't have to do what my dad had to do,
and I can be around and I just want to
be around for him, and I see that mirror image,
you know, Dad's son. I'm the dad and now I

(37:48):
have a son, so I want to just really make
sure that I'm there.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
And that probably goes too much. You know, I'll probably
do that too.

Speaker 7 (37:56):
Much, and I'm probably going to start to get emotional
about it now, which I didn't expect to. But it
comes out of love. Yeah, you know, I just love
the little dude, and I love Beth and possibly don't.
I'm not doing enough for myself, and I think that's

(38:17):
really important. Sorry, but I think it's really important because
if if I'm not around, then well not around, or
even if I'm not healthy, then how can I do
all of those things that I love? And I think
maybe it's just figuring that out.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
And if you know, the theme I think today really
has been over correction, right, because there's a lot of
us do this. We have a certain experience as a
child with our own parents. We see certain dynamics and
patterns go on there, whether it's between our mum and
dad or between our parent and us, and then when

(38:54):
we become a parent, we are very aware of what
we do and don't want to be repeating so there'll
be great things that we experience that we're like, that
was amazing. I want to be that type of parent
with my kid, or I want to make sure my
kid has those experiences.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
And then there'll be.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Things that we missed or there was a lack or
actively negative experiences that we go I don't want my
child to feel that or to experience that. And sometimes
because of the emotion that you talk about there, the
love for your child, it can intensify that.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
And we can kind of overcorrect.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
So potentially there's been an overcorrection of you know, dad
wasn't around, or Dad had to be away working and
wasn't as present as I needed him, So I must
be so present for my son when it would be
okay for your son for you to go to a
function or do something with friends here and there, or

(39:51):
you know, yeah you're around. You are already more present
because you are living and working in the same city,
state house, you know, yeah, like you.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Were the home.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah, so you're already creating a different dynamic there.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
But then the intensity of like, but it's not enough.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
That's that's what we're trying to just wind you back
a little bit from the over correction.

Speaker 6 (40:20):
Yeah, yeah, And I mean it's the you know, anyone
in our.

Speaker 5 (40:25):
Lives would speak about how great Wayne is as a
dad and how conscious he is, and you know, all
of those things. I think it's, yeah, you you need
to know how well you are showing up in that
space that I think, yeah, you need to give yourself

(40:47):
permission to just do some some fun things here and there.

Speaker 7 (40:53):
And I mean, you've got it's not the first time
you were saying that. You've said that many many times
in the past. And I probably just need to need
to maybe like not let go a little bit, but
just realize a little bit.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
But he was in he was so young as well,
and I think he's a bit older now as well,
So it just provides that little bit more.

Speaker 6 (41:16):
You know, like.

Speaker 5 (41:18):
Yeah, yeah, and he's not. Yeah, I also don't need
as much you know, back up from you as I
did when we had a newborn baby. You know, like
it's just it's a change in dynamic and it will
continue to change as well as he gets older. But
I think, yeah, the opportunity is there now for you

(41:42):
to sort of have those experienced experiences and do things
for yourself without feeling guilt. I also think we probably
have more of a support network now than we ever have,
So that also hopefully provides a little bit of comfort
to you knowing that, you know, if I did need

(42:03):
help with anything, or if we need to ask someone
for help, they're there.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
So I'm hearing Sarah and Beth a week long golf trip.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
With the boys every night, never never home.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
This has been great, thanks so much.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
So there's going to be the overcorrection the other way.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Wayne is no longer here.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, but see there's no fear of that happening because
you're so far on one end. We're just trying to
bump you up into the into the.

Speaker 5 (42:39):
Middle middle ground.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yeah. And something I was thinking about in terms of
like there's a bit of that also.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Perfectionism stuff kind of wound.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
In there, and I know we did flag last time.
We want to talk a bit about the time management
and I feel like this is all going to be relevant,
Like it's all interwoven into it right around the how
Wayne goes managing his time. Can I start with Beth
in terms of like do you notice this as an issue?
How does this issue?

Speaker 1 (43:10):
If you do?

Speaker 2 (43:11):
If you do.

Speaker 6 (43:15):
Talk about time.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Because Wayne brought it up but I want to hear
first from you of like, do you know what he's
referencing and.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
How do you observe it doesn't impact you.

Speaker 5 (43:24):
Yeah, so Wayne is the most relaxed person, albeit probably
more on the surface because we.

Speaker 6 (43:33):
Know there's a going on in your brain.

Speaker 5 (43:37):
But yeah, he is very relaxed when it comes to time,
and he has a very different perception of the value.

Speaker 6 (43:47):
That he places on time. I think for me because.

Speaker 5 (43:53):
I I had a parent who struggled with time management,
and then I also with the ADHD, have a lot
of time blindness and I have, as I've sort of
gone through life, had to really try and figure out
ways to manage that. I again probably have overcorrected because

(44:18):
I didn't know what was going on with me until
very recently. My overcorrection was I always have to be.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
On time or early.

Speaker 5 (44:29):
I place a huge.

Speaker 6 (44:31):
Value on time as well.

Speaker 5 (44:32):
It means a lot to me, and I get very frustrated.

Speaker 6 (44:36):
If someone doesn't value my time.

Speaker 5 (44:38):
So if people are late or they cancel last minute
stuff like that.

Speaker 6 (44:41):
I really don't like that.

Speaker 5 (44:43):
It just bothers me because I think I have to
put so much effort in, like so much brain power
goes into you know, Okay, well, if I have to
be at this place at this time, then I have
to leave it this time because I have to give
myself an extra fifteen minutes in case I forget something
or whatever.

Speaker 4 (44:59):
You know.

Speaker 5 (45:00):
It's it's a whole drawn out process in my mind.
So when someone doesn't understand that, not that I should
expect them to, but doesn't place the same value on
my time that I place on theirs, it really frustrates me.
And so a lot of our sort of arguments around,

(45:23):
like when we sort of first started dating, particularly, were
about this.

Speaker 6 (45:30):
Because Wayne just doesn't.

Speaker 5 (45:32):
Value time in the same way that I do. He like,
he was notorious amongst his friend group and family for
always being late, never doing anything on time, never being
on time, Like people would just expect him to show
up at like an hour later, you know, And that
was just the the expectation of Wayne, like no one.

Speaker 6 (45:57):
Initially when we first started.

Speaker 5 (45:59):
To date, it would be fashionably And even when I've
tried to sort of sit down with Wayne and go, okay,
so how does this.

Speaker 6 (46:06):
Work in your mind?

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Like what what are you thinking?

Speaker 5 (46:10):
And I think it's just that he constantly underestimates how
long something is going to take for him. He likes
to do things in a very routined way, and he
can't he can't start his day or he can't you
do something unless he's done it the right way. Whereas

(46:31):
for me, it's like I will forego xyzeding my routine
to make sure that I'm at that place on time. Yeah,
whereas he's like, no, I'm not compromising. I'm doing everything I.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Need to do. There's no adapting to look.

Speaker 5 (46:47):
To be fair, there has been a lot in the
span of our relationship.

Speaker 6 (46:53):
I will definitely give him that credit because.

Speaker 5 (46:56):
We were so polar opposite on this and it really
was a conflict point for us.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (47:01):
Yeah, I think you still struggle too, Yeah, to understand
or estimate how long something is going to take for you,
and you still struggle to compromise on things, you know,
like even even this morning, getting out the door, I
have to give him additional time frames, yeah, to account

(47:23):
for the fact that we won't actually get out the
door on time.

Speaker 6 (47:27):
So like we got out the door.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Be another overfunctioning thing, right, this would be a great thing.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
It's my biggest overfunction Okay, let's look at it. Let's
we've got to fix this.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yeah, okay, let's go to Wayne now, because you were
the one actually, which I think is great, who identified
this in yourself and we're like, this is something I
want to talk about.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
Yeah, So tell me.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
On your end what happens on your side of things.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
Well, it's not new the first.

Speaker 7 (47:57):
You know, I have early memories of my sister, who
is similar to Beth in the sense that time is
really important. Yeah, being on time, not being late to things.
And that actually goes back to my papa, who's you know,
my grandfather, who had this saying that he'd much rather
be an hour earlyer than a minute late. Yeah, And

(48:19):
somehow that didn't land on me like that. I don't
know where yeah arrow missed. But my sister would you know,
initially when I was we were teenagers, sort of early
twenties whatnot, would either if it's like a catch up,
it would just be like why are you constantly late?
Like why do you not understand?

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
This is a point of friction between you and your sisters.

Speaker 7 (48:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know when I talk
about my mom, dad, my sister, like, you know, there's
a we're a very close family.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
I love the way that we are.

Speaker 7 (48:52):
We're very tight, very tight with my sister as well,
and so her feedback was really valuable to me. You know,
there was a lot, there is a lot of love
for her, and so her feedback was really valuable.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
And then I could.

Speaker 7 (49:05):
Find myself trying, just never succeeding, just like I would try,
and then maybe once i'd be really good. I'd be like,
see I got here at exactly six o one, and
she'd be like, well, still not six o'clock. But in
my mind, I'm like, wells six o one, this is
like it's a sixty seconds, you know what. So and
then you know, it came came along Beth, and the

(49:26):
similar sort of patterns repeated itself with me certainly, and
I was like, oh my gosh, like this is happening
all over again. But look, to be fair, I'm cognizant
of the fact that it's a really important thing for Beth.
Beth values time, and I'm I have that level of insight,

(49:48):
I have that level of insight that I'm not good
at it. And I think I really found a term
recently that describes me perfectly, which is I'm a time optimist. Now,
I don't know if a lot of people have either
heard this or use it for themselves or you or
I don't know, but I found it. I was reading
something and it said time optimism, and basically where you're

(50:11):
just always like, oh, yeah, of course I can make
it in that time frame.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
How much time do we need to leave? Twenty minutes?
No worries. I'll still do all the things in my
routine that.

Speaker 7 (50:20):
I'm not necessarily compulsive about, but I like to do
it because that sets me right, sets me up for
the day, or sets me up for.

Speaker 4 (50:26):
This leaving blah blah blah. And I'm like, yeah, I
can still make it. How long does it? How long
do we have to leave? Twenty minutes? Now is how
long does that take you to do? Thirty minutes?

Speaker 7 (50:34):
Great, it'll work. I'll make it work. And then it's
a long old it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Almost delusion, could we say in terms of.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
That's harsh, Sarah?

Speaker 7 (50:41):
But yes, no, But I mean I try and then
condense it, and then I think, I don't know what
happens after that, and then maybe the apologies happen after that,
and I say I'm so sorry I'm late, and then
I don't know. I don't know where that reflection piece
happens after. But I think, look, I don't know. I

(51:03):
think i'd try and be better. And I don't think
i'm you know, you mean in an hour late. I
don't think, as you said, I've changed.

Speaker 6 (51:10):
That is a genuine like I'm not over exaggerating.

Speaker 5 (51:12):
That was your general rule for like a social event
when we first started dating.

Speaker 7 (51:19):
Was, I mean, how many people out there do actually
want to turn up to a party that starts at
one o'clock? At one o'clock, I don't know, But you're.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Married to one. Yeah, okay, but there's something that happens.
So there's two things.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
One could be the value is different around times, similar
to where the value might be different around leaving lights
on or throwing food in the bin and right, So
in this way, Beth has a stronger value around being
prompted on time than you do. But it doesn't sound
like you don't value it all. So, but do you

(51:56):
get anxious if you're running late? So if you have
a meeting and not just a friend catch up, even
if it's a work, let's make it a work deadline.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Even Coach's laughing.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
Already, even if it was. I remember UNI days.

Speaker 7 (52:12):
I think I think I adhered to the due dates. Okay,
it doesn't necessarily mean that.

Speaker 6 (52:16):
Down to the minute.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
Yeah I did leave things late.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Do you get do you get well?

Speaker 2 (52:22):
You know, are you stressed at eleven fifty nine when
you're trying to get it?

Speaker 4 (52:24):
I work my best under pressure.

Speaker 6 (52:26):
Yeah, I you know.

Speaker 7 (52:29):
There are these optimal arousal situations for me where you know,
as my not day job by IMC weddings and I
do like corporate events, so I'm behind a microphone. The
biggest one that I remember doing was in a in
an arena that I think had about twenty or twenty

(52:52):
thousand people, and it was the welcoming of two prime ministers,
you know from not little you know. It was Australia
and India, Yeah, joining together. And here I was one
of the people on the microphone as an MC trying
to get these twenty also thousand people revd up for
this climactic moment of the meeting of two lit and

(53:13):
I thought that there was nothing better in the world.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
There was no anxiety. It was like optimal, this is
the moment, this is great.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
It's not pressure.

Speaker 7 (53:22):
You Yeah, I really like it, and it's not built
for everyone. But you know, going back to your question,
is that in that last time period, am I anxious?

Speaker 5 (53:31):
No?

Speaker 7 (53:32):
Like I actually like every something oozes out of my
you know, like when I'm typing something, the keyboards on fire,
like everything's that's where the ideas get generated.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
So if we make this a work thing at work, well, yeah,
does the time thing extend to work? Like do you
do you manage your time okay at work or meet
deadlines at work?

Speaker 7 (53:54):
Or if my boss is listening, absolutely I do, of course.
But look, I mean even in the you know, the
team that I'm managing at the moment, I think we
have a really healthy two ways street sort of work
relationship time wise, where and I think there is in
a work setting. I think, yes, you do your for

(54:16):
the big things that's unavoidable stuff. You're there, you're there
a couple of minutes before, and I do I have
Bets on my shoulder, you know, BET's voice on my
shoulder in my head, sitting there going it. Yes, it
takes you one minute to walk down the stairs, but
don't give yourself one minute to walk down the stairs.
Give yourself five minutes to walk down the stairs and.

Speaker 4 (54:36):
Plan for the contingencies.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yeah, so you do apply certain strategies to try to.

Speaker 7 (54:42):
Ensure that you and I think of people, you know,
like my sister and now my Bet and now Beth
for example, who in my head. It's a fight if
you're in my head Sarah and Beth or anyone you know,
like it's a fight, because my default is.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
You'll be right mate, you'll make it down there at ten.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Ten.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
Oh wie, it's okay.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Now that's a really strong writing all start.

Speaker 4 (55:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's my formula.

Speaker 7 (55:05):
And then I've got actually forty other people will be
in this room for this meeting. It's not going to
be a good look turning up late. Make sure you're
there on time. Be early, that's what is the right
thing to do. Leave at nine fifty four. Then it's
like a bi minute thing as well, even nine fifty four,
and then you'll make it down there at nine to

(55:26):
fifty five. And even if you do see someone on
the stairwall, you can say, get a you know, help
them out if they need carry something, and then still
make it there at ten and find a seat and
everything will be sweet.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Yeah, but we know so, and I guess this is
a thing.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
We know that that's not true, that that's not actually
like that the time there isn't enough time to do
all of that.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
Yeah, yes, there is, yeah, time optimiz Yeah.

Speaker 5 (55:52):
Even like he'll be working from home and yeah he'll
he'll make himself a coffee and I'll see him sign
onto a meeting like either a minute late or bang
on it. It's almost like he has to he has
to wait until that time, whereas like I'm known at
work for being the one that starts the meeting. Yeah, yes,

(56:14):
so like it gets to the time and I'm like,
we have to start the meeting.

Speaker 6 (56:17):
It's the time, you know, like it.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
So, how does this work between the two of you?
Because I guess because we could look at this as yes,
there's obviously there's that time optimism problem going on.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Here with Wayne.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
It does affect you more so in your relationships with
others who find that difficult. But it seems to create
this overfunction underfunction thing. So and that I think in
terms of the couple work.

Speaker 6 (56:43):
Is really yeah, how.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
We could do something, what we could do around that?
Because there's something there where Beth, I guess your anxiety
about being on time and not being late would drive
you to be probably like following up with Wayne come on.

Speaker 6 (57:01):
Which I hate.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
I hate too, yeah. Yeah, And not your nagging. I
hate when I feel like I'm nagging you.

Speaker 6 (57:11):
It's not nice to be nat which you know it's
this theater.

Speaker 5 (57:14):
Even this morning, yes, I put our son in the car,
and I had everything ready to go for daycare.

Speaker 6 (57:22):
Everything was ready.

Speaker 5 (57:25):
I had woken up, got myself ready, done, breakfast, done
all these things, and then you made the breakfast.

Speaker 6 (57:33):
That's fine. I fared to the breakfast.

Speaker 5 (57:37):
Okay, I'm not not acknowledging yourself.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
I'm not.

Speaker 8 (57:40):
I'm not saying anything, but but that is all that's
almost become my technique now, is that like I get
everyone and everything out of the house so.

Speaker 5 (57:51):
That it's an indication like you are the last one here,
you need to get out. But even this morning, I
had to go in and say we need to leave.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
Okay.

Speaker 7 (58:01):
So that's so, if I may interject at this point,
I love the way that you've seen that because that
is like the focus, like this is our goal. Yeah,
this is the way I'm going to kick the ball
into the net. That's basically how you've seen it. Right,
it goes from A to B. I've just opened up
those blinders to see everything peripherally in the sense that

(58:23):
everything that sandwiches that you've seen the cream in the
oreo and I'm looking at the two brown bits at
the oder, you know, and which is I woke like,
you know, waking up in the morning, making sure that
the dishwasher is unstacked, that the blinds were opened up
to let the light into the house, that the breakfast
was made, so that whilst Beth got herself ready and

(58:44):
our son was waking up to the world, things would
be sorted to the point that Bets then swoops in,
does that seamlessly? I then go out get myself readied,
and then yes, Beth, it is a strong point again
strength and weaknesses. Beth takes him out, whacks him in,
and then the other end of the oreo. To finish

(59:05):
this off is the security aspect of the house. So
making sure that you know, back door, front doors are locked,
the I don't know, shutters are down. You know, our
four legged child, our dog is is fed with he's
not you know, not anxious, but you know we've said
goodbye to and we love him.

Speaker 4 (59:25):
And like other little.

Speaker 7 (59:27):
Things are set right with the world, like things out
the front in the driveway, right, it was mid night
last night, the bin's been taken.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Yet would happened?

Speaker 2 (59:37):
And this is this is when we're talking about adapting.
If we're running late, can the bin be left out?

Speaker 6 (59:42):
No?

Speaker 4 (59:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (59:44):
No, well no, ideally it's closed so the rain doesn't go.

Speaker 6 (59:49):
Wayne could not.

Speaker 4 (59:50):
Be ridiculous.

Speaker 6 (59:53):
Sitting No, no, no.

Speaker 5 (59:56):
And if I was home, I think if there was
time and home, he would then be on his way
out calling saying, hey, can you bring the bins in?

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
Well yeah, And I think.

Speaker 7 (01:00:06):
That's an adapt Like I've left sometimes going I don't
have enough time.

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
I don't have these two minutes with the binnie and
close the gate blah blah blah.

Speaker 7 (01:00:13):
Yeah, I'll do the two plus one. I'll drive two birds,
one stone. I'll drive and give Beth a call. She's
working from home today and so that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
That doesn't look pleased to be receiving that call. She's like,
can we just leave the bin out today?

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
I don't know, just like thanks baby, And it's almost
like a thing in.

Speaker 6 (01:00:31):
My mind which I don't tell you, but I'm sure
you know.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
What happens is that like it'll be a solid half
a day. Oh yeah, it will sit there and then
and then I'll do it in my own time.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
It would not be a lie. And you know you
should know everyone.

Speaker 7 (01:00:45):
Sometimes I'll drive back and the bins absolutely and I'll
be like, oh, well, you're just not a priority.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
But also the first thing.

Speaker 7 (01:00:53):
I go is, oh, you've had a busy day, you
didn't have enough time to do it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
Your meetings were crazy, and it's the bins. It's not
the biggest deal in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Yeah, And then we're back to that potential issue where.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Things get frustrated. No, no, like the it's a little frustrated.

Speaker 6 (01:01:11):
I mean you're like, oh, why haven't the bins been brought?

Speaker 7 (01:01:14):
And that's maybe the first question. But then very quickly
I think of what I what I said, just.

Speaker 5 (01:01:21):
Don't like I I know logically, because I know you
very well.

Speaker 6 (01:01:27):
By now that.

Speaker 5 (01:01:29):
You know, I think in my head and I go, oh,
I didn't get I didn't bring the binge in ways
about to get home, he's gonna say that I haven't
brought the vinchin like it's in my brain.

Speaker 6 (01:01:39):
But also when you don't raise.

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
It, it's again it actually does then flow back into
that thing of me not realizing how important that particular
thing is.

Speaker 7 (01:01:51):
And I can see as we talk about it that
that is a vital turned to take it the roundabout
instead of me then just continue around the round about
it and go, you know what, there are much bigger
things in life, because.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
That's you know, that's what. That's how I see a
resolution to it.

Speaker 7 (01:02:07):
But really, maybe taking that first exit on the roundabout
actually actually your analogy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Yeah, however it makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
In your pame.

Speaker 7 (01:02:16):
It's a wild place if he but yeah, maybe taking
that path then actually does allow me to come back
around that roundabout, but it resolves something that has been festering.
Used whatever word, yeah, use.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
The practice for right now is that I'm going to
want you to be like, oh, I'm a bit annoyed
that the bin wasn't put in today.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Like that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
It doesn't have to become my ten minute conversation. It's
just you starting to say it out loud, yeah, and
then decide to say anything or not say anything or what.
It's not even to get her to apologize, it's nothing.
It's actually to get you to start just naming and
noticing the things that are frustrating to me. And I'm
going to just say it out loud, not like you
need to be punished for this, but I'm just saying
out loud, it's a bit annoying that I came back

(01:02:58):
and I noticed you still hadn't put the bin out.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
And I think also that will desensitize me as well,
because I think at the moment, because because he.

Speaker 6 (01:03:07):
So rarely gives.

Speaker 5 (01:03:09):
Me feedback when he does, either A he's super frustrated
so it's like really highly emotional or I'm like, WHOA, yeah,
never mentioned this before, this has never come up, and
you're clearly very upset by this. Why haven't you brought
this up before? And then that that pushes it into
this way bigger place.

Speaker 6 (01:03:31):
That it doesn't necessarily need to be.

Speaker 7 (01:03:33):
There is also an aspect of this is it this
is we're looking at in a full page with the
drawing of a tree and roots in the sense that
like we're talking about what I what I've perceived to
be about two to five percent of our of our relationship,
ninety five percent of it is actually like there's a

(01:03:56):
lot of foundation work that we've done which is really
really struck, really really amazing. I mean, we don't come
here to talk about the ground. That's a different session.
But yeah, like I think this is just a very
I think a small aspect. And again maybe that's my

(01:04:17):
mind going.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
I was going to say, why did you say that
just thing?

Speaker 7 (01:04:19):
Yeah, because I think I'm pushing it off.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:04:23):
I don't know whether I'm avoiding it, but I think
it's this great, big lens that it's like.

Speaker 6 (01:04:29):
Which is lovely.

Speaker 5 (01:04:30):
It's so nice that you see the world that way,
and I appreciate it because we are very different, Like
you always have this back round thing of nothing is
ever really that big, whereas I am so emotionally driven
that even a small thing means a lot to me,

(01:04:50):
Like I don't necessarily place value on something based on
life or death or you know, significant consequences for me.

Speaker 6 (01:05:00):
It's like, this has really upset me, so I'm going
to talk about it. Yeah, And it doesn't matter what
it is.

Speaker 5 (01:05:07):
So I think it's also just identifying as well that
it may not feel like a huge thing for you,
but A it will probably fester, and B I want
to know about it because if it was, if the
roles were reversed.

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
I would say something I think that's really important.

Speaker 7 (01:05:24):
Yeah, the way that you said it there, because I
would hate it the other way around.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
I would flatly dislike it the other way.

Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
And you don't like it if you would like it
if I didn't talk to you about it. But that's
a constant with you, is that you don't Yeah, you
don't want to talk to me about it.

Speaker 7 (01:05:39):
Best ask me this question actually during the week, when
when was the last time.

Speaker 4 (01:05:44):
You remember being anxious?

Speaker 7 (01:05:46):
M And I don't know if you remember the answer,
but our son is now three three in a bit,
and it was probably when Beth was giving birth.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
Yeah, was the last time I remember being Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
And so I would say to you that you were
anxious every day.

Speaker 6 (01:06:08):
I just don't think you know how to identify it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
After this short break, I'll be helping Wayne to understand
how anxiety might actually be impacting him and his relationship
with Beth in ways he hasn't been aware of. Be
right back, when we talk about some of the symptoms

(01:06:34):
of you know, the overthinking, there's an anxious strife behind that.
So when I say anxious, and sometimes I think people
we all have different understandings of the word anxiety or
worry or stress or all of those type of words.
But I'm not talking about that you're having panic attacks
or that you're like physically distressed. But there is a

(01:06:55):
anxious strive behind overthinking, behind perfectionism, you know, all of
those type of behaviors, and even the sort of like
conflict avoidance and going into that part positivity thing without
really giving light to anything negative or not conducive to
like a sort of happy, optimistic outlook. All of that

(01:07:17):
would indicate that there is an anxious process happening under
the surface.

Speaker 5 (01:07:25):
Whereas I think I am just a lot better because
I genuinely because I have been in therapy and I've
gotten very good at identifying when I feel a certain
way and just talking about it. I tell you all
the time, Hey, this particular thing makes me feel quite.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Anxious or bear feel a bit anxiety would just be
closer to the surface.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
So whether it's more visible or she's more aware of it,
but it is more.

Speaker 5 (01:07:57):
And more physiologically, like I feel it in like heart palpitations,
and you know, I get yeah, I can fuel the
anxiety in my body. I don't think you necessarily feel
it in that way.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Yeah, And I think that was Part of the homework
around the frustration was like, what do I notice.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
What it feels like in my body?

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
And I know you were saying that this week, there
wasn't any sort of big thing to kind of give
you an opportunity to feel that, and whether you can
do it retrospectively like some people can, but it might
be hard if you're not as connected to your somatic
experience of emotions. But you could apply that homework to
any emotion, you know, sadness, anxiety, anger, fear, what, any.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Of that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
So there is use in trying to connect a bit
more to how do I know I'm anxious at the moment?
We probably can just identify it as like, ah, am
I overthinking? That indicates that I might be anxious. Am
I avoiding bringing up something that's frustrating me? That might
indicate that I'm anxious something. Am I getting really stuck

(01:09:06):
on something being perfect? That would indicate there's an anxious
strife going on here. So we can look at it
in your behaviors. And then once you start noticing the behavior,
then it's like, Okay, well, what's my body feeling like
right now?

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
You know? Am I all hunched? Up intense?

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Am I like tapping something? Am I feeling like really harsh?

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Am I clammy? Just starting to go what's my body doing?

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
Is my physiological Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:09:31):
And it does manifest in for you like that tension
you have. Like every every messeuse or physio that's ever
touched your back, it's said to you that you have
nots all through your back, Like it does a big.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Indicator of something.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Yeah, it does, like bad posture or anything like that.
When we store anxiety. I mean there is a tenseness
that can happen with that that we can you know,
people can live their whole lives without realizing that they
tense particular muscles and whole it's like holding yeah at
tension point humanity.

Speaker 5 (01:10:08):
Yeah, And like I think, yeah, you don't necessarily feel
it to the point where it is disrupting your life
or your day or you feel.

Speaker 6 (01:10:20):
Like, you know, you cannot function because of it.

Speaker 5 (01:10:24):
But I think even the other day when he was
asking me about anxiety and he was like, what what
is a panic attack?

Speaker 6 (01:10:29):
Like what does that feel like?

Speaker 5 (01:10:30):
And you know, sort of talking to him about the
physiological symptoms of anxiety because yeah, I don't I don't
know whether it really manifests in like you know, a
racing heartbeat or stuff like that.

Speaker 6 (01:10:44):
For you. I mean you've often.

Speaker 5 (01:10:46):
Spoken about how when you're prepping for an event or
something like that that you get a cold sweat, like even.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
That that's even looking at that as adrenaline, right, And
adrenaline is essentially.

Speaker 6 (01:10:56):
Love, the feeling of adrenaline.

Speaker 5 (01:10:58):
And I think I think because of that, anxiety is
not necessarily a negative. You maybe perceive and anxiety as
a negative thing, but that feeling of adrenaline, that's that's
a level of anxiety, you.

Speaker 7 (01:11:14):
Know, like yeah, yeah, I think it has turned into
a positive thing. And to be very like brutally honest
with you, I still remember, you know, I was seven
and a half and we were at an airport. It
was the first time we were we landed in this country.
It was the middle of winter. Cop this like go on,
go out into this new country and here's your mirgrant experience.

Speaker 4 (01:11:38):
Deal with that. Yeah, And do you know my.

Speaker 7 (01:11:41):
Parents, who of course were probably feeling ten times one
hundred times there's.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
Like is this the right thing? Are we doing the
right thing? Like what do we do next?

Speaker 7 (01:11:50):
It's not like what an ank that there's no bigger moment.
Probably there are, but you know, for us, that was
our big moment. And then from there you just had
to to craft and build.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
And adapt and adapt and make it work.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
Make it work. So there was no.

Speaker 7 (01:12:11):
Like, in my mind since that timeframe, there was just
no other way. You just either keep going or you
fall off the wagon. So yeah, everything else and I
think that was not there. So in those anxious moments,
you just.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
Go okay, like get back like, get back right.

Speaker 7 (01:12:28):
Again, you know, get this ship gone straight again, and
align yourself with I don't know what others are doing,
or this is how it's meant to be done, figure
it out, you know. So yeah, I had to then
change the mentality on those things. And I think that's
why I go, well, oh this has worked for me
in the past, copy paste this is how I go

(01:12:50):
into the future.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
And sometimes that blueprint, Yeah, the blueprint that you create
as a kid of how to adapt and cope and
manage life situations does help you survive and is actually
really what gets you through. And then we often notice
as adults that sometimes parts of that blue print, or
sometimes a whole blueprint isn't really useful anymore, or it
is useful in some ways but it causes issues in others,

(01:13:13):
or it needs some tweaking.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
And I think that's just what we're looking at here.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Your blueprint doesn't need to be thrown in the bin,
but there needs little tweaks.

Speaker 4 (01:13:20):
Tweaks right and.

Speaker 7 (01:13:21):
Totally yeah, And I think this the level of insight
gained even by just putting things out on the table
here has been Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:13:28):
And we are actually this is a point where Wayne
and I are really similar, which is that we have
never been in Neither of us are the kind of
person that goes, oh, this is too hard, I.

Speaker 6 (01:13:40):
Just give up.

Speaker 5 (01:13:41):
Yeah, So if anything, we will both push ourselves to.

Speaker 6 (01:13:45):
The point of like literally falling.

Speaker 5 (01:13:47):
Apart if it means that we have gotten through whatever
it is. So we're both very determined, and I mean,
I think the downfall of that, though, is that we
both do burn out, Like we both get to a
point where we're just really having a hard time.

Speaker 6 (01:14:07):
So I think.

Speaker 5 (01:14:09):
I think it's a great thing that we can both
sort of relate to each other in that. And also
I think we would both struggle if we had someone
in our life.

Speaker 4 (01:14:19):
We do.

Speaker 5 (01:14:19):
We do struggle when we have people in our life
where you know, we struggle to understand the whole it
was too hard, so I just didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:14:27):
Do it or.

Speaker 5 (01:14:29):
I just gave up, because I think both of us
are very much That's not like a judgment thing at all.
It's just that both of our brains are very much
tuned to just.

Speaker 6 (01:14:41):
Like you've just got to keep going.

Speaker 7 (01:14:42):
You got to keep going, and the positive things that's
come out of it. I think, you know, from the
lessons learn for you and lesson anyway for me, if
the lessons learn and how I can apply that to
different facets in my life, aspects in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
Look, I mean, I think the two of you and
this this is speaking to that is that the two
of you have a lot of individual strengths and a
lot of strengths as a couple that really make this
actually a great environment for the two of you to
tweak your blueprints in little ways, because often it's hard
to make much individual or couple progress if there isn't

(01:15:19):
enough of that solid support understanding between the two of you,
which you do have. So this is like the perfect
foundation for some of these things that yes aren't breaking
your relationship, but are causing tension or stress or or
you know, just things that kind of make day to
day life more frustrating or overwhelming at different times or.

Speaker 5 (01:15:39):
Could potentially turn into down the tree snowball.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Yeah, and the fact that you've got that solid foundation
and you haven't left it twenty years where you now
resent each other or you know, the problems of snowboard
and become bigger, I think is such a testament to
the two of you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
Thank yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:15:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:15:57):
And you know, with Beth, I just there is that
great love for her and just wanting her to do well.
And I will always be your biggest you know, supportant,
and I just I don't want anything, particularly me, to
affect that balance if things are tracking well or if
we're tracking well.

Speaker 4 (01:16:17):
So again that's it's like, don't.

Speaker 7 (01:16:19):
Put the spanner in the works, mate, Like, think that
things are going good. There's no need to be annoyed
about blah blah blah. But I totally get them saying
Sarah in the sense.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
That but that does cause then in the world, and.

Speaker 7 (01:16:30):
It's okay and probably better to be like, oh babe,
I'm actually really annoyed. Well, you know how, I don't
know how it's going to come across.

Speaker 5 (01:16:37):
I also think that there's there is also just that
asterix of I. I was not in a place where
this was possible for a period of time in our relationship,
so you also are now having to get used to
like a newish me, you know. I think, yeah, before

(01:17:03):
I got my diagnosis and like in between that time
where you know, I was sort of newly postpartum, and
then when it got diagnosis, that was a period of
like what nine months of months you know, where lots happened.

Speaker 6 (01:17:19):
You could not have given me feedback. I would like it.

Speaker 5 (01:17:23):
Things were quite fragile and you did have to work
on walk on eggshells. And I can see that in hindsight.
I definitely could not even look at it in the moment,
But I think that probably is a bit of a
like alarm bell in your head sometimes as well, where
you go. I don't know if I should talk about this,

(01:17:43):
because I don't, like, I'm scared of because because at
the time, if he had given me feedback, I mean
even I remember even just talking about, you know, what
we were going to do with regards to sleep for
our son, and just even that being enough to sort
of make me get super emotional. If Wayne was saying

(01:18:05):
suggesting something that I just couldn't hand and emotionally like, yeah,
it was the smallest things that I found really difficult.

Speaker 6 (01:18:13):
So I understand.

Speaker 5 (01:18:14):
I understand where it comes from because naturally you struggle
with it, and then also having that piled on top.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
So this is you saying, I give you permission to
do this experiment. Yeah, and to sort of wrap things
up a little bit, I do want to quickly touch
back on the time management overfunction under function thing, because
I think this will be another opportunity for you Bet
to go, Okay, how do I stop doing that? But

(01:18:43):
not pull the full rug out from the table. And
now like no one gets to work, no one gets
to to day care, no one gets to anywhere, right,
but there is something there where the overfunctioning around time
needs to be passed back onto Wayne. And if that
means that Wayne has the stuff of some consequences, as
in like yeah, not something not happening that needed to

(01:19:05):
or you know, missing something, or that is part of
this clumsy process of trying to get to that middle ground.
But maybe for you it's like, Okay, I would start
observing over the next few days to week of what
are all the things I do that that manage Wayne's
time issue. And I think you'll need to announce the things.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
That you're not going to do anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:19:32):
Would communication? Right?

Speaker 7 (01:19:34):
Communication is the proxy of how I don't I see it,
is how I don't face the quote unquote consequences because
we'll just communicate it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
But so I think that's if you're going, hey, I'm
not going to do this in the mornings anymore, or
I'm not going to do that, or you know, I'm
not going to remind you, I'm not going to follow
you up blah blah blah blah, And then I think
what you'll start noticing Whene is like okay, And I
don't know whether the job for you is like the
tasks that you do a lot, Like you know, we
all do pretty much the same stuff every day on

(01:20:06):
repeat in terms of of like go here, go there,
eat lunch, go to work, blah blah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
What if you timed them.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
And didn't You're not rushing it, just you're just a
timing the usual tasks that you do. I have you
have because have you told him?

Speaker 5 (01:20:22):
I know because Wayne, Wayne would say to me, you've
timed as an experiment because he would say to me,
it's going to take me fifteen minutes to have a shower.

Speaker 4 (01:20:32):
Where is this data?

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
And that's what I want.

Speaker 5 (01:20:35):
And we've had these conversations because and I'd be like,
it doesn't take you fifteen minutes to have a shower,
because before there's the during, and then there's the after
and it's like a whole routine and then the hair
and that, you know, because there's a thing. I was like,
that's at least thirty minutes, like at least and so
I remember that he was going.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Again, you were overfunctioning, and I want Wayne. I want
Wayne to be timing himself your time everything you feel
you need to time. I want you timing yourself, and
I want you storing the data and then you're going
to see how and don't be rushing to try to
time yourself and then like do as normal, and then
I want you to go, okay, so when something comes up,

(01:21:17):
do I have time for that? I'd be looking at
the data of like, well, I still have to eat
lunch and that normally takes me twenty minutes, so I'm
not going to be able to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
Like I want you to think that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:26):
That would genuinely be good.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
I like data.

Speaker 4 (01:21:30):
I like numbers. Yeah, I like black and white.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
And it might be surprising, you know, And I think
it will start making you have to check with something
before you just do the time optimism thing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
Yeah, that will work well.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
Actually, no, my data tells me that today is not
going to.

Speaker 7 (01:21:44):
Seven and a half minute. But yeah, if I may,
I think that I can't see myself timing myself because
I'll be thinking about it, you know. So I think
I think we probably need to have a conversation Beth
about about maybe you doing it, like.

Speaker 5 (01:22:03):
Just putting the time around and just then giving you
the data.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
Yeah, just for all the initial things, but there might
be some things that best not there for like it
could have been timing yourself doing things at work.

Speaker 6 (01:22:13):
Or most two wings, most.

Speaker 5 (01:22:15):
Of the things that take the most amount of time
are the home things. Okay, yeah, I don't think like
particularly with just the structure of your work now, I
think it's less of a thing. But also as it
pertains to our relationship, ye, the things that come up
the most of the things that happen in like a

(01:22:37):
home environment or when we're together.

Speaker 4 (01:22:39):
This could be really eye opening because you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
Need to be storing, you've got to have the data
and handy to you in your in.

Speaker 4 (01:22:46):
Your notes of the fridge wherever.

Speaker 7 (01:22:48):
Yeah, but I can see Beth saying I need you
to do X, and I can see her then going,
why are you cleaning the fridge?

Speaker 4 (01:22:58):
That is not what I asked? How did you end
up cleaning the pantry? And that? You know, Like my.

Speaker 5 (01:23:01):
Favorite one is we will have an event the next
day and he'll go, oh, I need to.

Speaker 6 (01:23:07):
Cut my hair.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
I'm like, there's no time for that. Way we can't.

Speaker 7 (01:23:13):
Well, it doesn't take me long. I cut my own hair.
That's why it's just saying yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:23:17):
Yeah, so that is that's one that wee can times
is a process as well.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
All Right, guys, let's.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
Let's wrap it up here when we're going to get
into the whole nother kind of one made.

Speaker 1 (01:23:27):
But yeah, look, I appreciate both of.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
You being so open and honest and like willing to
do this experiment with me and grain Storm.

Speaker 7 (01:23:36):
Yeah, thanks for the thanks for the questions, the directed
pointed questions.

Speaker 4 (01:23:41):
I think let's let us in this on this path.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
So thank you, thanks, Thanks Allen.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
All Right, we'll leave it there, Beth and Wayne are
a great example of a couple who didn't wait for
a major crisis to seek couple's therapy, and I think
that's such an important thing to share with you. They

(01:24:06):
really sum up one of the major reasons I wanted
to do this podcast to highlight the importance of working
on your relationship early on, even if it's healthy and loving.
It really is an active service to the relationship to
nip things in the bud. A lot of times people
think that they have to wait for the house to
be on fire before they ask for help. But if

(01:24:27):
you get some assistance at the first sign of smoke,
you might be able to stop it in its tracks
before it can do lasting damage. I feel really hopeful
that Beth and Wayne are going to be okay. They
have a strong foundation for their relationship, and I think
that the skills they've learned in these two sessions will
serve them well. This is Why We Fight was created

(01:24:51):
by Naima Brown and Eliza Solman Nilson. The executive producer
is Naima Brown. Our studio engineer is Lou Hill. Sound
design and music by Tom Lyon, editing and sound design
by Jacob Brown. Additional production support from Leah Porgus and
Coco Levine. Our casting producer was Lisa Storer. If this

(01:25:13):
conversation has brought up any hard feelings, or if you
just feel like you need a bit of help, there
are links in our show notes to resources available to
you right now, as well as how to.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
Connect with my practice motivated minds.

Speaker 2 (01:25:25):
If you'd like to apply to be on the next
season of This Is Why We Fight, there's a link
for the application in our show notes too.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
Thanks for listening.

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