Emma & Sam [Part 2 of 2]: Do They Have A Future Together?

Long-term partners, Sam & Emma, are working on reconnection, clarifying their priorities, and trying to find alignment about what’s next for them after their kids move out of home. 

Emma was tasked with reflecting on her needs moving forward, and to share them with Sam in this session. Sam was asked to write down tangible actions he could take to prioritise his relationship with Emma. Will these exercises bring them closer together? Or will it reveal their different visions for the future? 

Listen to Part One of Emma & Sam here.

Resources (Australia-only)

• 1800RESPECT: The national domestic, family, and sexual violence counselling, information, and support service.
• Beyond Blue: For support with anxiety, depression, and suicide prevention.
• Lifeline Australia: For 24/7 crisis support and suicide prevention services.
• Motivated Minds: Learn more about host Sarah Bays’ practice.
• Relationships Australia: A leading provider of relationship support services for individuals, families, and communities.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters this podcast was recorded on. This podcast has been
produced with the strongest regard for the wellbeing of our participants,
all of whom have chosen to share their biggest relationship
struggles in the hopes of helping other people. All participants
have been provided with resources and opportunities for ongoing support.

(00:37):
Welcome back to This is why we fight, real people,
real problems, real therapy. My name is Sarah Bays. I'm
a clinical psychotherapist with over a decade of training working
with individuals, couples, and families. This is part two of
my sessions with Sam and Emma, who are working on reconnection,

(00:58):
clarifying their priorities, and trying to find alignment about what's
next for them in their long term relationship after their
kids move out of home. The homework I assigned for
them was for Emma to reflect on her needs in
this relationship moving forwards and to list them to share
this session. I asked Sam to write down tangible action

(01:18):
points of how he can prioritize his relationship with Emma
and write a list of wise to keep him on
track when his default behavior of minimizing the impact of
choosing other commitments over the relationship rears its head. If
you haven't listened to the first session yet, go back
and start there. Let's jump back in. He's Sam and Emma.

(01:40):
All right, guys, that's really good to see you again.
I'm keen to hear how things went in the week.
If we start with Sam around how was it just
trying to do their exercise? So before we actually go
into because we'd asked you to have her think about
some action points of like what can I actually implement
that will mean that I'm prioritizing my relationship, And I

(02:02):
think the other one was kind of getting your whys together?
You know, why is this important? Why am I doing this?
But even in just sitting down and doing the exercise,
I think I'd like to know, like was it difficult?
Did you find there are like barriers even mentally to
kind of get over or like you know, whether it's
reluctance or frustration or actually you know, it was really
easy and I came up with some good things. What

(02:24):
was the experience of it, Like, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Didn't find it easy, but it wasn't I also didn't
find it difficult. I think it sort of flowed when
I went from the tangible actions to the whys.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
I found the whys.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Easy because they were directly related to the tangibles, right, Yes,
And then I suppose then I understood the purpose of
the exercise and it was good because it wasn't just
about us, It was about the barriers that impact us.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
And I actually did these wiles at work, so, which
is obviously a big barrier.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
In terms of our relationships.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
So I was it was good in terms of knowing
to prioritize us and the impact that has on us
as a couple. And then on the flip side, understand
the impact that the barriers of work and other factors
outside of our relationship, and how it's really important to

(03:28):
prioritize us first and then put the others in the
background and things will still get done.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
Yeah, I suppose that's what I found easy.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
And even those it's doing it at work meant well,
I can do some of these things at work. I
can still prioritize our relationship even though I'm at work, yes,
you know, And even we.

Speaker 4 (03:49):
Caught up for lunches today and beautiful.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yeah, I think we've probably had a week where we well,
I know I have been more conscious and waking up
and going, don't put all the twenty five things and
then to get done at work in your head first.
Put Emma in your head first, and then work the
other things around it. And that works like it's yeah,

(04:15):
I suppose that's a new way of thinking for me,
and some of my actions are related to that too,
where like my first action was just that we go
for a morning walk three times a week because it's
us time great and enables us to do what we're
doing now and sit down and talk together about all
the things that are.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Going on in our lives.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
And that's not just together, it's the separate things that
are going on in our lives.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
And I think then we sit down and we come home,
we have a coffee, and we.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Like, just that process is going to be a really
good contributor to putting Emma at the forefront of my
thinking and then working everything else around it.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
And then like on the flip side of that.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
I've put to get home before five at least twice
a week. Again, so just starting the day is probably
easier because we started the day together, but then getting
to the other end of the day prioritizing Emma and
going Okay, I'm out of here, I'm shutting the computer,

(05:21):
I'm turning the phone off, and we're going to just
come home and prioritize whatever it is we do. Like
I've sort of added into there that we sort of
go for one midweek dinner or just to not just
come home and it's the same all the time. So
I suppose a theme in my tangibles was to create those.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
Routines, but not make them to routine.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
So do the routine differently, you know, Like I've got
the morning walk three times a week.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
We might do something else on the other two and
then some of my other things.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
We're like to have a like a group or group
team project for us each month to work on it
together on our times off, like and it might be
panting the house, it might be you know, it could
be different things, but having something that we're both invested
in together where we're like, no, that's our priority.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
I'm not going to play golf, I'm not going to
catch up with the boys. Whatever it is.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
We've got this project to do, and we gave ourselves
a month and we're going to get it done.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
So you know, we are in the process of football
and so we.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
Emma's in the process of punning the house, and it's like, no,
I'm going to jump in on that because it enables
us to do something together, to sit back and actually go, hey,
we did that together.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, that's a really great one.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
That was I like the per month idea because it
just you know, it might not be the paper the
whole house in a month, but I'm not let's get
that room done in a month and just we have
a like at an end point as well. So for
me that's important because it's like, well, like you with
your homework, I'll.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
Do it the last minute. We've got three months.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
To do this, but it's like, you know, like a
month of these four weekends and we've had to weekends
we've been away or whatever it is, We've got to
get this done.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
So just having that real focus of a goal.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, that's a really fantastic one. Honestly, that one I'm
very impressed by. I think having something to work on
together is great. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, I think because it is in the background and
we've probably had some conversations just work around that. In
terms of prioritizing the house over work and other things
that are gone on.

Speaker 4 (07:33):
In our life.

Speaker 5 (07:34):
But it's about saying, okay, well, it's got to be
a balance. We've got to do home stuff and together stuff.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
As well as And that's why this is good timing,
because we are coming to our I suppose off season
where we do get our weekends back and how sad
days back, and it's easy just to fall into that, right, well,
let's go and do what we did last year, and
in those weekends off like I've really sort.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
Of gone, right, well, okay, you know you're currently painting.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Let's get let's do let's put the house in the
parts and do a month and.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
That might only take a weekend.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
I've got in here, like go for a lunch on
a Saturday Sunday or a weekend together a month as well,
so even in that month, it's not just well we've
got to get the room painted, well, we've also got
to spend one of those weekends either away or.

Speaker 4 (08:26):
Go out for lunch or whatever.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
So it's like I've got it's almost like I'm trying
to fill the four weekends with almost but there's only
one weekend where i can go and do what I
want to do, and it if it's a goal for
what you know what I mean, Like, so I suppose
I've broken that month into four works and gone, well,
if I give three of those to us, yeah, and
it doesn't have to be through. But I suppose it's

(08:49):
better to go bigger than smaller.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
And then if you give me an extra one I want.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
And I was like, oh, no, we've gone too far
in the other direction.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
But that's my way of thinking. That's the easy mode
of plan in my head.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
And if it makes sense.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
I can't do that this weekend, I'm not. It's back up.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
I can say that though, like Emma speaking theres, I
hate that but does have is not a.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Person that's like, I'm not someone who goes you talk to.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
No, you're not. I'm not saying it that way.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
I'm just saying I'm someone who needs to go. These
are the things I have to get done in this
block of time, and that means I have to say
no to that opportunity that arises that draws away from.

Speaker 4 (09:37):
Us, because I'm very good at going.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah sometimes, And the other thing I had was like
develop a hobby or a recreation activity that we can
do together.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
So we've sort of explored pickleball a little bit.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
And just even if it's not one, it's like, let's
go and hit the golf ball this weekend.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
It's gone.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, So just do something that we do together that's fun.
We like sport, we like those things. So just using
that as an opportunity to connect as well, that's fun.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Like I've come from quite a competitive sporting.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Background and I need to let go of that little
bit and use recreation sport in a fun way and
not being so reliant on competition and being judged and.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Like coming first or second or not second. That that's
not that's not acceptable.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
No, is not okay.

Speaker 4 (10:30):
But that's yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
The other things I say, the walk the home before
five two times a week, a project, a lunch or
a week and away together a month and then like
a midweek dinner, drink out per fortnoe. That could just
be a walk at a picnic, but it's not going
bloody that dinner. But yeah, and then just yeah, coming

(10:51):
up with in that again, if the old month old year,
just let's go and do pick a ball this Sunday
or racquetball or whatever it is, both volleyball, or something
that we just do that's not a walk.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
Because we walk quite a bit.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
That's stiff for any nature that there is a little
bit competitiveness, but it's not Yeah, relationships, I'm somewhat but
it's fun.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
It's fun, It'll be fun.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
And it's interesting to see for you, Emma, where there
is a little bit of discomfort where you know, in
in seeing and hearing Sam prioritize you and the relationship,
there's a little bit of like, oh, but it's okay
that you can also have your own life and you
can also enjoy your stuff, which is interesting to watch
because he's I see Sam really stepping up and going, okay,

(11:41):
I haven't been prioritizing the relationship. I need to change
how I think. I need to change how I put
things in place so that I can and I know
it's what you want. But there's a little yeah, discomfort, well.

Speaker 5 (11:56):
Shock, No, I think like when Sam's always known since
I've many I'm pretty independent. Yeah, and it stems from
background and being on my own for a while with
the kids before I met him, when I separated the
first time, and I got really used to doing my

(12:21):
own things and creating this space for myself that was
you know, at home, and then you know, the few friends.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
That I've got and even just like.

Speaker 5 (12:33):
Doing things with the kids, and so I have been
craving doing more with Sam because you know, as our
lives evolving, like we've talked about it, and the kids
you've got.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Their own thing. You know.

Speaker 5 (12:47):
Sam's been really good at carving out like, Okay, great,
well I've got to fill my weekends with this, and
I obviously haven't been as good with filling my time.
So I have been like, great, can we also do
some things together, And hearing him talk about it, I'm
you know, I'm really excited for it. But at the
same time, I don't know of four weekends.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Like, yeah, no, I love I'm not.

Speaker 5 (13:14):
I'm not trying to be negative at all, because I do.
I appreciate that, Like it's nice to look forward to
things together.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
It's a little bit of us utopia about it. Yeah,
And I.

Speaker 5 (13:25):
Think that's someone that is that likes doing like I'll
take myself to the movies.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
I'm okay with it. I like that.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah, I like that's the schedules more. Just that made
it easier for me, Yeah, to write down.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
So yeah, and I think it makes sense if we
know that Sam's tendency is to not prioritize the relationship
as much as he should. If I think if he
aims for like what he has done now, because inevitably
life things will happen. It will be a meete's birthday,
it'll be X y Z, something really important. Well, you know,

(14:02):
life things will come up. So if the goal is
is the way where Sam said it now, I think
that that's perfect because you will probably notice that there'll
be small things that will get in the way that
can't be worked around, and that will be fine. So
you'll probably find that it will feel quite even out
and nice. But you know, when there's not much going on,
Sam has that relationship as the priority. And yes he's

(14:25):
got one weekend out of four with the boys, or
you know, whatever he wants to do by himself, doesn't matter,
but it will inevitably probably work out to feel a
bit more even.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
I imagine that's probably we've taken small steps, and probably
small steps hasn't worked, so like we need to do this,
go the other way, make it fairly heavily invested in,
and then if it's scale back a little bit because
of what life throws at us, and it'll feel better

(14:54):
than what it did in the small steps approach.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
So that's probably.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
Just that just helps me prioritize to have it, yeah,
more heavier than lighter. Like it's easy to well, i've
only got one weekend, it's sort this out. I'll do this,
but but I've got a plan. This I got and
I'm not a great plan so it's it allows me
to do that, to go right heading into this week.

(15:20):
We we've got to get that project done or we
haven't done, and that's tivty. Get this week. I'll sort
it out sort of thing. If it gets called off,
that's okay. But even in that, I think the effort
side of things.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Is that's the important.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
Like, now go and organize that we played beach volleyball
and it range for three days, but it's not it's
you know, well, I could have looked at a heading
on what's going to run. I won't buy the organizing.
That's probably healthy way out, but I'm just well, that's
probably what yeah, we need to do, so do you no?

Speaker 2 (16:02):
No, no? And I also look at it sounds like no,
I don't want to answer this one.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
You think like I get like, I know you well enough.

Speaker 5 (16:13):
You need to have things planned, don't you, like, as
you know, I know you say you're not a great planner,
and partly that's true, but you know, we both have
that tendency. But do you think that it's easier for
the weekends if we do have things scheduled, Because when
it comes to it, because you have been you're in

(16:36):
an environment where you have so many months of like
everything scheduled for you for work, that when it comes
to like a free for all weekends, it's harder. And
so you like, that's where we tend to fall into
this trap of like not doing things together.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, if it's planned Monday that we're doing this on Saturday, Sunday,
we'll be going away whatever it is, then it takes
out all.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
The variables of the world.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
Whereas if it isn't planned and we decide on Friday,
Oh but I've already organized.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
See yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
So for me, I need to work into the week
to go we're doing this on the weekend.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
Yeah, So when the phone.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Call comes or the invitation comes or whatever it is,
it's like, Okay, I've got this one. You know what
I'm like, and I do get a lot of that,
all right, No, I'd love to.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
But I can't look And if it's something that you're like, oh, yeah,
I've organized something with Emma, but you know it's it's
best mate's birthday and it really is something that I
feel I should attend. That can be a discussion between
the two of you, know what I mean, Like, it's
not that now I'm like, oh, no, I have to
miss out on all these things, Like surely they'll be flexible,
but I agree you want something structured and put in place,

(17:56):
and then if flexibility is needed, discussions can be had
and it can be you know, worked out between the
two of you.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, I understand. I'd rather come on Monday saying hey, listen,
this has come up. What I reveget Now, let's but
can we'll go next week in let's do that together. Yeah, yeah,
rather that than it gets towards the end and it's like, oh,
did you know about that?

Speaker 4 (18:17):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Like, yes, yeah, what's say Emma, what was the face
of what's happening? When we come back, I'm going to
try to understand what Emma's body language and facial expression
is trying to communicate stay with us. What's Emma's say, Emma,

(18:50):
what was the face of what's happening.

Speaker 5 (18:52):
I sometimes get the feeling that Sam will not be
completely transparent about things that come up, and it'll be
sort of like, I don't know if you're afraid to
tell me because like I'll lose it or something, because.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, it's like I'm non committed on the other things.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, I think we're meant
to be going, you know.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
What I mean. Whereas I need to just come home
Monday and hey, my friend said, look, do you want
to do this on the weekend.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
I'd love to. We put off that. Yeah, no worries.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
But I'll leave that conversation Friday where it's like almost
she can't say.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
No because that's right.

Speaker 5 (19:28):
So he'll leave the really last moment, and then I'll
feel like the worst person.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
In the world that behavior.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah. Yeah, And you'll sort of fib a little bit
and be like, oh, I just found out about it,
you know.

Speaker 5 (19:43):
But then I'll find out through your conversations because you know,
we have the same friends.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
And I'll be like, oh, okay, you've known about that.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
This schedule exists, like I know I'm about it.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
But is it because you're afraid I'm going to like
and be like, this is crap.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
I'm just torn between what I what should I do?
So would be decided you can go to priortize us
and go and the conversation Monday is Piz.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
Listen and now we have this plan, but this has
come up. What are you reckon? It's an AUSS decision,
not a MA.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
And some of those you might make yourself, Sam and
like you may not even include. And if you sort
of get an invitation, you're like, oh, and then you think,
you know, you know what, we never haven't spent that
much time together, or you know, she's had a tough week.
I think even though it's Blah Blah's birthday or whatever,
I'm gonna say not. Some of them you may do yourself.
The other ones I think it's just chatting to her

(20:39):
of like, hey, I do think I should attend this thing?
Can we move ourt thing to another day? Or are
you're right? Emma might be like, yeah, I actually I'm
happy to go do my own thing. I want to
go to the movies, I want to do whatever.

Speaker 5 (20:50):
You know, Yeah, I think what I'm thinking now is
like that those sort of things have come up quite
a few times. And what's happened is it's not the
we're not doing things together, it's the feeling like you.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
You haven't talked to me about it.

Speaker 5 (21:07):
You learn about it, and I feel a little bit like, oh, well,
I must be like a really hard person or person
because you can't talk to.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Me about these things.

Speaker 5 (21:16):
And then I kind of then I probably spiral a
bit and know, well, you know, like what else do
you feel like?

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Why don't you talk to me about this stuff?

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Probably just with like if I look at my whys
and what we're talking.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
About now, like the curly things of why I want
to do these things is to learn to communicate with
em and better to spend time to just like chilling
out together and prioritizing Camma, and then also like some
of the stuff like to better develop our teamwork, like
to work together more on things that are out have

(21:51):
their comfort zone. But then I feel like that will
help my sporting background. When you work in a team,
that makes it really easy to have to go conversations
together because you've been through certain adversities on the sporting field.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
And you've got to communicate as a team, right like
you paralleling.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
That with us if we do some of those things
are out of our comfort zone, and then those difficult
conversations will that I find difficult become easier because we've
done those things together.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
So and I said, like to be.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Able to be better at doing those recreational things together
because that's me coming back from my competitive nature and
in some respects you're going more towards that competitive nature
because that's out of.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
Your competition as well.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
So and then other thing else it is to break
the citle of the week, like to get out of
the routine that we're currently in and to add some
spontaneity to what we do. But it's also within a
routine that we're now trying to create. So initially it'll
feel spontaneous, Oh we're going to do this, so we're
going to do this, but that I suppose spontaneouy will

(22:56):
come through the variety of things that we do, but
it'll be a bit of a routine. And the routine
theme is that we you know, we prioritize each.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
Other more often.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
And let's go to maybe some of the potential pitfalls
right of the plan. You know, which I think Emma,
you sort of started with there with yeah, sort of
what we know about Sam and previous behave. So let's
say there's this habit of in the past, yeah, not
being forthcoming about something else. That's that's that's on, and

(23:28):
you know, what will you do Sam if something like
that happens and there is something coming up and you're like,
I really want to go, but I shouldn't, but it
is something I feel. You know, if that happens, how
are you going to because your default will be just
don't say anything until it's last minute, and then she'll
kind of have to say yes, you know. See that's

(23:48):
the default.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
I think having like these sort of pillars in the
background of we're going to do those things every week together,
we're now able to have that give a conversation easier
on Monday morning walk where it's hey, listen, i've got
this coming up this point. I know when meant to,
but let's have to think about like what do we

(24:10):
want to do, so.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
All those moments in the week.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, yeah, I think those moments in the week where
we've become you know, we become we spent prioritize time
for each other it'll make the conversations easier to have.
Like it's it's almost those some of those situations therefore
that like.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, you almost can't avoid it.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
You can't avoid it, particularly somewhere where we do talk.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
So it's an easy one to you know, almost say, right,
what's coming up this week?

Speaker 4 (24:37):
Well, we've got a couple decisions to make around whatever
it is.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
So yeah, that's part of that schedule to some degree.

Speaker 5 (24:44):
And I do think that if we have those you know,
few touch points during the week which we can tend
to not have any and yet we we're busy, so
for big chunks of the year, we just you know,
we sort of can't do anything during the week. You
have very long hours, you can get stuck there until.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Very late at night at your work.

Speaker 5 (25:09):
And so then I think, what, from my perspective, what
then happens is when it comes to the weekend and
there's sort of this concept of maybe it's just my
concept that we're going to be doing things together or something, and.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Then you're like, oh, but by the way, I'm going
to go do this.

Speaker 5 (25:27):
That's when I can tend to go, oh, okay, so
not prioritize, like I'm not Pronia.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
But I do agree.

Speaker 5 (25:35):
I think Sam that like just having it like not
you don't have to do everything together every day, but
like you're having a couple of things well you know,
like like you said, that's great, Like I walk in
that those sort of things would be great because then
if it does come to the weekend and there is stuff, yeah,
it's it doesn't for me. I don't think then I'd

(25:55):
feel like, oh, well, I'm not I'm not. Yeah, I'm
just like so far down the rung of other things
that come up that because all week you've had other things,
you know, And I.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Sort of feel like that the energy investing in us
will create.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
More energy for us.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, you know, I.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
Mean like if there's time and effort going into right,
let like we're getting out of bed, we're going for
this walk where you know, I am coming home.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
Early this afternoon. You know, I'm just going to make
sure I shut up the books at five.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Like that, that will create opportunities for us to have
those conversations and do more things together, and it'll give
us time.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
Where potentially it's like it could be coming home early
and stay work.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
You know, that would be But yeah, like little things
like that where you're like, look, I come home early
from work and you're like, hey, I've got A and
C to do. Well, sweet, I'm going to go and
pay nine. I was a fight, but because we've we're
putting the time and effort in, Whereas at the moment
it's like, oh, I'd love to go and play nine
because it's a sunny afternoon, but I.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Haven't got the time in with them at Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
So having that there, the time I'm putting in will
probably buy time to do our own thing as well.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Absolutely I can go play nine Homes with you.

Speaker 4 (27:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (27:21):
Absolutely, I'm not very good at it, but and your
competitive and I just like hit.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
The ball, but you know, we might start the driving right.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
So my other suspicion of what could be a pitfall
or just be difficult is the two nights being home
or leaving work by five o'clock. Because I think you
have referenced that it is hard for you at times
to say no and to and to put in those
boundaries at work and sort of like I'm not here
or I'm not accessible or I'm done for the day. Yeah,

(27:56):
have you sort of had to think about what will
happen Yeah, how will you kind of be firm with
those boundaries because I'm sure people are quite used to
you being accessible, and yeah, it'll be a change for
the people to adjust to.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
There's a few things I can do at work that
will enable me not to have to be relied upon
for some of the things I have to stay back.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
For, so delegating my outsourcing.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah, absolutely, I just gotta let that go.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
And yeah, again it's probably to make it most effective.
That early week chat where it's like, you know, what
I'm going to come.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
Home this week?

Speaker 3 (28:36):
Are a b because you know there's times when you're
not able to leave work at five either. Yeah, so
it's yeah, like we can prioritize together what those days
are because yeah, like then we get the best use
out of them as for us. So yeah, there's certainly

(28:59):
I can put things in place that can enable me
to do that at least twice a week. And that's
what I've got twice a week. I think the realities
I could probably do it.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
Three, but I'll put two there to start it, and
then I think it's well those things implayers and probably
feel comfortable with it. I think I can do it more.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, Wow, I think it's good to start in a
place that feels realistic. And I think with all of this,
it's all going to be an experiment. Right, this is
the original plan. We're going to start working to this plan.
If there's something that isn't working, we chat. We change it.
If it's not working for Emma, if it's not working
for Sam, if it's just impractical, or it's actually more

(29:39):
annoying than helpful. Like this is all just you know,
to be reviewed. It's not set in stone, but we
do want to stick to it. While everyone's happy with it.
We stick to it, and then if there's things that
aren't working, we change.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (29:52):
I think that's important too, that we like we talk
about the things that aren't working and are working, Yeah,
because I feel like sometimes we.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Maybe slog it things a bit and then we're not
really great. Had this actually isn't working for me?

Speaker 2 (30:10):
So how does it feel, Emma to hear what Sam's
come up with?

Speaker 1 (30:14):
No, I think, like I said, he started to touch
on things last night together.

Speaker 4 (30:23):
No, I.

Speaker 5 (30:25):
It felt really nice that he moll the nice that
he had taken on that kind of challenge I guess
or the homework and said, right, what am I going
to do and not not make it a.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Flippant thing, but actually sit and think about it and
think about ways. And I think all of those things
that he talked about are things. They're not like they're
achievable for us as in a relationship.

Speaker 5 (30:49):
Too, they're not they're not so far like extreme, because
I don't think that.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
I know, I didn't go.

Speaker 5 (30:56):
Into this process thinking we've got to just completely change
our whole relationship.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Because that's not what it is.

Speaker 5 (31:01):
We have a we have a really great basis for
a relationship, but we've got a little lost, as most
people do along the way because we're busy, and you know,
Sam's taken on a different job, and then I've taken
on a different job, and you know, and somewhere along
the line, all these things that we did in the

(31:21):
beginning have sort of not become a priority.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
So it's really nice to hear like things.

Speaker 5 (31:28):
And you know, I'm not a I'm not an overly
gestural person.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
I don't know if that's but you know, I'm not
someone that needs big things.

Speaker 5 (31:37):
You know, I don't need romantic trips away every weekend
and all that.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
I don't I don't like all that stuff.

Speaker 5 (31:46):
I just prefer simple things. So, yeah, going for a
walk or you know, saying I've booked ciner forress, do
you want to duck down the street and go and
have it, you know, after work, or just little things
like that that then it does make me feel that
it is this is a priority rather than an afterthought
from because we're so so wrapped up and work and

(32:09):
like and the worksite is his friend's side as well,
so like it's all enclculated, so it's it becomes everything
which you're you know, Sam's really lucky to have. But
you know, it's a massive amount of blokes all together
and they're all you know, and that becomes very hard

(32:30):
to break into. Yeah, for me to feel like, Okay,
I get that you have this great work that's like
a whole bunch of blokes and you all love hanging
out and it's really good, and but.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah, I do want to share some of that time.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
Yeah, And so yeah, just little those those things, I mean,
they sound great, I.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
And probably very similar to a lot of things that
I put down that I want out of the relationship,
which is really good.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, And we will pop to that in a moment.
I guess my last question around this is do you
because I know that at times it has felt yeah,
like you you questioned last session whether Sam enjoys spending
time with you or wants to and where does that
like hearing him seeing how you know, the thought he

(33:24):
put into it and what he came up with and
how he's delivered it to you, does that feel it's
been addressed a little bit? The question in you?

Speaker 5 (33:32):
Yeah, well I was interested to hear I guess how
forced it was, Like, you know, sometimes when people will
talk about wanting to spend time with you, they'll make
up things that are so ridiculous that it's.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Like really because like you're not going to stee.

Speaker 5 (33:50):
Land on the weekend, but you know the practicality of
it all of you know, just going for a walk
or yes, you know again we can go up to dinner,
but just even being like, oh, I'm putting your dinner tonight.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Like and we've talked about that a bit this week
as well.

Speaker 5 (34:05):
Like it's those little things, but making the time together
priority is, you know, is what I've been sort of
chasing in the relationship and hearing the things that he
talks about, like the ways that we can do it

(34:26):
you know, just and having the goal at the house,
which you know is great that he that I'm really
appreciate SAMs acknowledge that because that is something that has
been there that I know is not Sam's ultimate comfort
zone to.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Be, you know, doing up this house.

Speaker 5 (34:42):
But we you know, we have this house that we've
owned for a few years and it really needs to
get done. And so you know, just being able to
make that a priority that we both do it together,
even if it's just it is only a few times
a month.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, I think because in my workplace, work with a
bunch of young trades, in.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
The back of my mind, I don't worry about it.
We'll just get them to do it once.

Speaker 5 (35:09):
They're never doing it once the but it's like being
married to about five it's and none of them do any.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Of the work.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Working together to achieve something is probably what I've got
out of it, where it's like, no, you're not just
going to be able to get the guys to fix
that and paint that.

Speaker 5 (35:26):
And I think for me, those things because they're our priority.
Like to me, I see that as our priority because
it's our thing, Like this is our house. It's important,
it's where we you know, have the kids. It's where
we have we spend a lot of time. And it's

(35:47):
nice to hear Sam make eat a priority as well,
like because it is also a way of us spending
time together.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Although I know for you it's probably more of.

Speaker 5 (35:56):
A chore, and I'm not saying for me it's the
best thing ever, but it's it's something we have to
do so rather than these things like you know, so
work comes first, and then mates and then you know,
everything kind of below that gets pushed so far down sometimes. Yeah,

(36:16):
that I you know, that's where we've sort of that's
why we've sort of landed here, and that is because
I feel like nothing else is a priority outside of that.
So to hear Sam talk about making those things priority
is like, that's all I kind of wanted to go
into this about.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Is just that acknowledgement that to go forward, to be.

Speaker 5 (36:35):
Able to have a life going forward, there has to
be things outside of that that are a priority.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, which I think is what Sam or what I
heard from Sam there in the beginning around really changing
is mindset of you know that I think about the
relationship first and then I fit everything else around it.
And I think that that is, you know, when it
really comes down to it, our work can be important,
but if someone got sick, or if something happened, or
you know, like the family is always going to be

(37:03):
number one. And I do think that often we can
get really caught up in work or projects or friends
and other things, and we don't want to wait until
something terrible happens in order to go I really should
have spent more time with this person, or you know,
like and I think that, Yeah, when you put things
into perspective, I think it's okay to put the relationship

(37:24):
first and then everything else around it. And that doesn't
mean that Sam doesn't get his own time with friends
or on his own or he doesn't get to care
about his work and put effort and energy in, but
it does mean that he will not do it at
the expense of the relationship.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah. Yeah, and vice vers sor in some sense that.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
I want a love for you to be honest about
the things that you want to do, and if that means.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Taking you away from us, that's okay. So you've got
to have that balance. But I also don't want to feel.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
Like I'm being a nagging or you know, I don't
to have to put but like you're not if you
want to do those things, I want you to be
able to feel comfortable to be like I.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Really want to do.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
And that will be part of the of the experiment,
you know, seeing how it goes. Do you notice that
Sam isn't asking to do anything and you know, and
seems a bit resentful about or something, And then you
could bring that up and be like, hey, babe, you
haven't you haven't said any you haven't seen your mates
for a month, like well, you know, and then you
might be like, oh, yeah, no, I think I've I
think I've felt a bit reluctant to or you know,

(38:35):
like you would just bring that up. So it's just
trying to find the middle ground of what this looks
like for us now when we are prioritizing the relationship.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
The rest of my session with Sam and Emma after
this short break, should we go to you Emma and
and I think you said your homework responses were very

(39:11):
similar in line with it sounds like what Sam came
up with, But essentially your homework was to reflect on
what your needs actually are quite specifically in a relationship,
like what do you need?

Speaker 5 (39:23):
Yeah, and I found this easy and hard at the
same time. I think I found it hard because when
you're thinking about what you need, it's in a relationship,
it's still two people, like, it's not just me, and
I think I've never been in this relationship to change
who Sam is. Like, I don't think you go into
it going, oh, well, you know, I like you, but

(39:46):
you need.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
To do exactly what I want to do.

Speaker 5 (39:48):
So when you're thinking about what you need for me,
it's like, well, it has to be both ways, like
it has to Sam has to want those things or
I have to feel like they're important to you as well.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, and maybe that was the tough part, because I
do I believe. I think I said in the home
to try and think of your needs without considering Sam.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah, and I.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Did that for a reason because I knew it would
feel uncomfortable. And I guess and there are different types
of needs, so there are needs that are non negotiable, right,
So it's kind of like, you know, it doesn't matter
if Sam doesn't like it. This is what I need
in a relationship, and if you can't meet that, then
I guess no one is forcing him, but it would
indicate that potentially the relationship can't continue, right, Yeah, So

(40:34):
there are some needs that actually my partner doesn't need
to agree or it's just that, well, this might indicate
this relationship isn't compatible. And then there are other needs
that are very important and if my partner can't meet them,
we need to come to a compromise or an agreement.
And then there are other needs that you know, I
would like met, but you know what, that's not the

(40:54):
type of person they are, or it's just not going
to you know, And can I get that need met elsewhere?
Or am I okay to sacrifice it?

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah? I definitely didn't get to come up with ten.
That's sure.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
That came up with that's fine.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Seven.

Speaker 5 (41:09):
So for me, probably my number one priority is security,
Which is it You might be a bit strange, but
I guess for me, I know that not everything is forever.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
You know always that the reality.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
Of life is having been through separation before that it's
not everything's not guaranteed that you're going to last forever
that you're going. But I think the security part comes
from just knowing that if things aren't right, that things
aren't the way you want it, sam that you're you

(41:41):
can address that like that you can bring that up,
which sometimes I kind of feel like doesn't happen because.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
You know it will cause an argument or like.

Speaker 5 (41:56):
Or that you you know, and I'm not great at
probably pushing you for that because I'm afraid of that
as well.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
I don't know, So I'm not saying that things you
know we're going to end or but what.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
I'm saying is just having that security and relationship is
really important, that feeling like everything's just not going to
fall out from underneath me really quickly. And there has
been times within this relationship where I have felt that
that's a very real possibility, and I think that's come

(42:27):
from us not communicating with each other. So yeah, so
for me, that is the party. Like I said, it's
not everything is forever.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
I know that, and I really want this to be forever.

Speaker 5 (42:40):
But it's trusting in that that if there isn't things
that are right, that we communicate a bit better about
those things. And then I guess that's My second thing
was communication, which Sam and I have talked about before,
that I could be too pushy with a with communication,
like this.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Is my issue, what do you think?

Speaker 5 (43:02):
And Sam has explained before that you take time to
process that and go away and come back.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
But sometimes that doesn't happen, as.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
In the coming back doesn't happen coming back path.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
And so.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
I guess it's for me. I'd love to find a
way forward with this, Like, you know, how can we
be more open with each other?

Speaker 5 (43:28):
How can we how can I feel like if there
is things that aren't need to be addressed within the relationship,
you're going to bring them up or you're going to
address them, or you know, is it just going to
be that I'm going to.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Keep pushing them or I'm going to keep bringing them
up and then you know, they will just.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
Fix themselves or you know, because I think we've been
doing a bit of that, and that's that whole like,
and that's sort of why we're here.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Right because we're.

Speaker 5 (44:02):
We're not We're kind of letting things just sit and
not addressing them, and I've got to schedule.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
I don't I talked about this last time. I don't
bring them up or I don't I don't voice them
a lot because I feel that.

Speaker 5 (44:17):
Probably there's no point, like it's just for that maybe
I well, no, I do get the feeling that I'm
being a bit. I don't know, whinch is not the
right word, but you know, just get over it, Emma.
You're you know, you're not so being a winder about it.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Just move on with it. Kind of is how I
feel sometimes, And I think.

Speaker 5 (44:38):
That's because you know, Sam has been really good at saying,
I'm not great at communicating.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
We know this, it's the.

Speaker 5 (44:45):
Way you've always been. But for me, it is, you know,
it's a really important thing. And it even goes back
to like feeling that you trust me enough.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
To talk to me about things.

Speaker 5 (45:01):
You know, so when we talk about things that pop
up for you and I find out really last moment,
like there'll be a situation with maybe something with your kids,
and I won't find out about it, and you'll be like, oh, yeah,
I'm just going to I'm just going to go and
do this. And I think you have known about that
for a really long time, but it's like you've been
too afraid to talk to me about it.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
And that makes me feel then.

Speaker 5 (45:24):
That I'm being Oh, I must be a terrible person
because you cannot talk to.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Me about it.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
So if I can jump in here, because they're a
couple of things, so there's an assumption being made, and
I think it's important to check that between the two
of you. So it's almost like doing that reflection, but
you're doing their Emma, where it's like Sam when you Yeah,
when you When I find out things that are important
that you've seemed to have known for a while and
you haven't told me, I feel like you don't trust me,

(45:52):
or I feel that you are not letting me into
your certain parts of your life or whatever it might be, right,
And then I start thinking that I'm that you're scared
of me, or that I must be a terrible person
that I'm hard to talk to, And then checking that
with him, is that why you don't tell me? Because
I'm going to guess that that's not the reason why,
because you're internalizing it and making it something wrong with

(46:14):
you is why he's not telling you because of something
wrong about yourself, Whereas I'm going to guess that the
reason he's not telling you is something to do with
his own self and not to do with you at all.
But I'll check that with Sam. You know, Sam, what
is it about when you don't tell Emma things? Is
it because you are afraid of her or her reaction
or she's difficult to talk to.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Nah, it's the two things familiar. I sort of like
to keep some things. It's like, I'll do with this myself.
It's not for a fear of telling her or anything
like that. It's just me probably thinking you've got your
own stuff that you're dealing with your kids. I don't

(46:56):
need to throw any more at you with it.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
But I know that.

Speaker 5 (47:01):
And that's kind of what I've put down here, is
that the communication partner, it makes me feel like I'm not.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Iportant enough to share or talk with like that.

Speaker 5 (47:09):
I am, Yes, I'm partner b to some extent because
I'm not the you know, ex wife, but I'm so
I'm not important enough to share the information about that
involves like a massive part of your life.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
And you know that that really, like that probably hurts
more than anything. And I get where you're coming from.
You're just saying, well, I'll just fix it and I
don't want to burden you with it.

Speaker 5 (47:42):
But where I'm coming from, it's doing the opposite sort
of and it's making me feel like this relationship is
just not as important as the first one, because yes,
we don't have kids together, but we live in the
same house, and we co raised to some extent, and
we we share like lots of aspects of our lives.

(48:06):
But you've got this other part that you don't communicate
with me about. And then I think, well, I'm not
important enough for you to communicate with And then that's
when it comes into this whole security piece with me
about feeling like, well, any moment now, everything could.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Just disappear really quickly, because there's parts of.

Speaker 5 (48:27):
You that you keep completely secret, and sometimes I find
out about them.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Like through the kids. You know, Oh, okay, so you went.

Speaker 6 (48:36):
And did that or you were talking about that, but
I don't know anything about that, And I get, like
I said, I get that your headspace is like I'm
trying to keep that separate so that I.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Can not put that on you, But it doesn't feel
like that for me.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
Yeah, I suppose the reality is when you do repartner
and you've both got kids others, there's always that party
on both sides. And I suppose I'm not as reliant
on knowing all that from your side of things, because

(49:19):
I let you deal in process with that stuff yourself,
and if there's stuff you do need my help with
or tell me and I'm probably in the same boat
in that I try and deal with some of the
stuff on my own because I don't want to burden.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
You with it and in hearing how it actually lands,
so your intention is not to burden how it lands.
Is that Emma feels unimportant or sort of left out
of big parts of your life.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
The reality is my daughter has a pretty close relationship
with Emma and probably at times will tell you things
that she doesn't tell me, which is great.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
I love that I do. I think that's really important
for her.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
So yeah, and I would prefer my daughter to do that.
Then it come from me, if you know what I mean, Like,
if she's comfortable in that space for that to happen,
I sort of don't want to make that decision. That's
her decision to make and go right, if you're comfortable

(50:26):
talk cod it's unreal like, yeah, I suppose that's that's
where Ken Burt times for.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
Me where yeah?

Speaker 2 (50:33):
And what about the times when it's not about your
daughter or just other things like do you I guess
is sort of like is there anything are you willing
or open to trying to bring Emma into the fold
A little bit of some stuff that you normally would
have viewed as burdening, but now it's actually, oh, this
is how I include her.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
I think knowing that it has that impact on her
means I'll definitely be less likely to go. I'll just
let her know and if you know, it does impact her, like,
she'd move on from it, and it's probably more a
positive than it is a negative, rather than holding on
to it and then finding out later and it being

(51:15):
like that impacting on a trust or security.

Speaker 4 (51:19):
And because I haven't communicated it, I.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Think in previous for a while I've felt for it
has been that it's.

Speaker 5 (51:32):
Been the very last moment I find out about a
lot of things that happen.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
With Sam in terms.

Speaker 5 (51:39):
Of kids or ex wife or even like things with
friends and that. So I haven't reacted great, And I
know that reaction at times is like, well, I'm annoyed
about that, but it's also I'm annoyed that I'm finding
out about it last, you know. So that says to me,

(52:00):
I'm the least important person to you because I'm finding
out in twenty other people know about it.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Well, so what are you asking? I guess, because I
even in this homework, I guess it's you trying to
be specific about your needs and maybe so is it
asking Sam.

Speaker 5 (52:19):
Yeah, I intend to make the priority to inform me
of things you know, and I know I will have
to learn to be better at the reaction at times
about things like I'm not always pleased, But I think
more than anything, it's about not feeling like I'm the

(52:41):
last person in the room to know everything that's going
on with you and understanding making you understand that you're
not telling me these things and me finding out some
of a lot of these things through a third party.
That the security it impacts the security that I feel

(53:02):
in a relationship because it makes me feel that.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
This isn't important. I'm not important.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
Enough a person in your life to talk to about
it because for me, I went in. I would like
to think that we're so far down the track in
the relationship now that we are. It's all nothing, you know,
like there's nothing we don't know about each other. There's
nothing that we can't try and fix if we need to.
And that's why we're here doing this, you know, like

(53:30):
we're trying to make sure that we can not get
ourselves in a situation that we were in, you know,
with the first marriage that this is going to you know,
we want to make this work. Well, that's what I'm
coming from.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
And so.

Speaker 5 (53:44):
The big thing for me is the security of that
of not knowing that this relationship will just fall out
from underneath me because.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
You know, you're not being honest.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
And upfront and communicating with me those things that you know,
I feel are important because they're part of you, and
they're things that are happening in your world and things
you know, want to give examples, but things that are
really important to Sam. And then I think that is
something I should have known, should be involved with, or

(54:15):
should just even have heard.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (54:17):
And you know, I can go down to you know,
your work sometimes and guys would be like, oh, you know,
Sam did this and we talked about this, and I'll.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Go, I had no idea about that.

Speaker 5 (54:30):
And that's because he hasn't taken the time to talk
to me about it or tell me about it, or.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
And also maybe because you guys hadn't been having enough
of that quality time. You know. I'm hoping that those
touch moments in the week, yeah, will also be an
opportunity to share a bit more about what's going on
in each other's worlds and that that sort of stuff.
So I wonder if that will And maybe that's the
question to Sam of like, is that something that you

(54:57):
can share a bit more just about what's going on
and you know, with your previous partner or your kids
or you know, whatever is happening. I want to know
about it, even if it's annoying to year or what
you know, I would just want to be across what's happening.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
Yeah, I think those touch points are really important in
that process.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Yeah, I do think so too. I think that will
build up a bit more of a.

Speaker 5 (55:21):
Opportunity to talk about things, yeah, because we probably haven't
had that.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
And so to.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Address the one other point that you had there, Emma,
the worry that Sam won't raise issues or things that
that are bothering him or do the whole sweep under
the carpet. And my suggestion to a lot of couples
is to be doing a weekly check in and that
is a conversation that doesn't have to be particularly long,
but it does need to be intentional around do we

(55:53):
have any grievances, Do we have any things that have
been an issue or annoying this week within the relationship,
or even outside the relationship, it's impacting me. So it's
impacting how I show up in the relationship. And look,
it's usually only three or four questions long, but I
would suggest having a bit of a reflection of how
have I felt in the relationship this week? You know,

(56:13):
am I connected? Am I disconnected? Have we been arguing?
Has it been easy and fun? Have we not had
much time together? You know, just a few sort of
reflective questions around that, and then is there something that
I need to raise with my partner that you know,
maybe I didn't appreciate, or I would like us to
try and do a bit differently next time, or something
that's not working. And some weeks there might be nothing

(56:36):
great cool, and other weeks you might have a list
of stuff your partner's done that's pissed you off. You know,
I don't know. And then I would also try and
incorporate something positive in there. So something I've appreciated from
my partner this week, or something I really I've noticed
and I've enjoyed watching, or you made me feel really
good when this happened. Yeah, So just like three or

(56:58):
four points of check in once a week, and that
gives you the opportunity to raise anything.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
I think we have a to that or haven't we book?
Sometimes we get so life that we trail off on
that quick don't.

Speaker 5 (57:15):
Yeah yeah, yeah absolutely, but that is a good I
think we do need to do.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
We could probably do that when we do a walk,
we could be like, right, well they're walking, and this
is what we do.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
And if it's just a one like once a week thing,
and you do it like you said in that routine
where it's like, Okay, on our Monday walks, that's when
we do it, or on our Sunday drink or whatever,
that's when we do it. But it's while you're doing
something enjoyable and it's not like, oh, here we go,
here's the time to raise everything that that person has
done that's pissed me off this week. It's actually it's

(57:50):
not about making an argument, but it is about saying,
how do we together tackle the things that maybe each
of us aren't too happy with. It might be going
out in relationship.

Speaker 5 (58:03):
So my next thing was a desire for life, which
I think is you know, ties in with what you
were talking about. So just doing things together more this
you know we've raised really.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
We've been really lucky. We've raised really good kids, and we.

Speaker 5 (58:21):
Have had good careers or have good careers, and we
have a great house.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
But it's you know, just I guess for me, it's
important to know that the partner.

Speaker 5 (58:32):
Is someone who wants to continue life and have that
kind of passion for it, not being like, Okay, we're
fifty and we need to kind of just rain things
back in and do nothing, which I know that Sam's
not like, there's nothing in me that would think that,
because intimacy for me is not just touch, it's it's language,

(58:52):
it's conversation, it's you know, those things. And so you know,
as we go further on in the relationship, not closing
that part down, not continuing to talk about our and
see and things like that, it's you know, that's.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
What I find is really important that talking about it's
not taking me for granted.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Well, let's we can even flip that not being taken
for granted means feeling appreciated, considered prioritized. Yeah, you can
just put it that way.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
That's where that comes to.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
You know, I think a couple of those points that's
probably what for me.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
I'm not yet I don't understand that because you haven't prioritized.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
Emma.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Look, that's why these things have come up, because you know,
the just book it scenario. So I'm thinking about but
I haven't prioritized. I've only thought about it and then
it hasn't happened. It's sort of like an anty point
that's for you. So we're not doing that. So yeah,
and the taking for granted, same deal, Like you know,
there's lots that we do and that you do and

(01:00:02):
it's almost not unrewarded, but it's you know, it's just
i'll do this, but just prioritize me.

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
A little more, and I really don't mind doing it
at all.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Oh that I couldn't have said that better. That's really
basically what I what I have put down, and that
is that I don't mind doing.

Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
The kids, staff and the housework and helping it work,
your work, and I enjoy those things, but I don't
want to be seen as it like there can be
times with our relationship that it just becomes like, well, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Just you, you have to do all that. So you know, I.

Speaker 5 (01:00:42):
Wrote down that like just even asking sometimes if there
is things to be done, rather than just expecting.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
That oh, well, you do usually do that, So that's
you just do that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:52):
And so the last thing I had as a priority
for the rest ship is to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Make something special, not all things. So I'm not someone.

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
Who you know, we've never done that, like I don't
need to celebrate anniversaries and you know every.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Time we first time met, and but.

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
You know, things are important, and I think it reflect
on that from the weekend. And that is because making
things like our birthday special and Christmas now and those
sort of things, because as the kids are slowly leaving,
they for me are ways to be able to celebrate

(01:01:30):
what we have together. And I think maybe you know,
when I met you, we were a bit different in
the sense that I have always heavily celebrated you know,
those things because it's it is tradition within my side.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Of the family that those are big deals.

Speaker 5 (01:01:49):
They're probably not as big from Sam's point of view.
So that's a little bit of me like saying this
is a priority for me, But I think it is
because it was the way I was raised, and I
like that the kids, you know, and even Sam's kids
have sort of got on board with some of the

(01:02:10):
traditions that we have. And so just that's just me personally,
that is something that I think is important that we
get to to celebrate these special things like birthdays and
Christmas and Eastern and because you know, it's a way
of also reflecting for me about all the years and
how far.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
We've come and you know, and all being back together too.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Yeah. And so do you want Sam to be more
of a part of like create, whether it's organizing, planning,
just being a part of the celebration in terms of
like prioritizing that it happens and that we do something
and we get together and we think of what we
want to do for it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:56):
Yeah, I think so. I do you did that this weekend?
It was my birthday last weekend and Sam.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
To organize something and beautiful.

Speaker 5 (01:03:07):
And I think that's what triggered me to think about that,
as well as just thinking how much that changed so
much for me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
And how important that was just to have. It's probably
the one of the first times that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:25):
You've sort of done the birthday celebration thing that And
I do think that comes from your background to do.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
That, But for me, that's I think it incorporated everyone
that was, Okay, we got your mum's living down.

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
Here now and we had everyone here. Yeah, so yeah,
like it was.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
And again it's been we've gone to have a birthday dinners,
or we might have had the kids here for a cake,
but then because we had extended family here, but.

Speaker 5 (01:03:54):
You you've been out of do that and organize that
and plan that was just like it meant something more
to me because you had prioritized that as being an
important thing something yeah, just something that I really enjoyed.
So anyway, yes, so that's for me when I guess
when reflected on the important things relationship and not.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
You know, I didn't really.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
Have specifics like you did, which was like we'd have
to book these holidays and do this each month, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
But they were I feel like they were quite clear
though around just generally what I what what makes me
feel happy and fulfilled, loved, cared for in a relationship
and do you I mean, for Sam, it's important I
think to maybe be able to keep that list. Maybe

(01:04:45):
he can keep that list somewhere, and that's sort of
like a you know, am I am? I making sure
that I'm sort of and of course Sam, if you
have any needs that aren't being met, that weekly check
in absolutely the weekly check in is when you can
be raising that with you know, you can write your
own list, or you can just chat with her as
they pop up. So it's not one way, but I

(01:05:05):
guess it's the per this exercise was. I think Emma
was struggling to kind of put her needs out there
without feeling guilty or feeling like she was forcing you
to do things. And so but yeah, I think it'd
be great if you kept that list.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
I would be intrigued as to what yours are as well.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Well, that can be there we go. Emma's now setting
homework as well.

Speaker 5 (01:05:28):
And you know, when I was writing them, when I
was reflecting on it, I was thinking, it is really hard.
I said that at the beginning, like it's really hard
because you aren't just you in a relationship, you know,
you are two people. Yeah, so I could say, hey,
I you know, I want to throw a party every
Tuesday night, but that would be unrealistic. That's not that's

(01:05:50):
not a thing that we could do together or you'd
want to do together.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
So I was thinking about the things throughout.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
It that what's really important to me?

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Yeah, yeah, but also what is really important to us
is what from my point of view, But i'd love
to know your point of view. You know, what's your
point of view.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
About what's important.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
Yeah, that's I think that's.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
Going from Monday morning chat.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
And I think that like, obviously your questioning for our
homework was identifying, you know, me putting concrete, tangible things.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
In place, mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Then obviously service what you picked up as potentially being
amas needs.

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
Yeah, which I then have to hearing both sides.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
A lot of my tangibles are ways of servicing.

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
Yeah, yeah, some of those needs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Which is very positive. It means that you guys are
on the same you guys are on the same page.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
Yeah, we'll probably good.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
It's a positive for you too in terms of you
been able to draw out the right questioning to get
the right information from us that sort of tends to
get to the root of the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Emma and Sam made some really good progress across these
two sessions. I think it's clear that both of them
took the homework really seriously, and I could see they
put a lot of thought and effort into really trying
to work through some of the things that hadn't been
helping their feeling of disconnect in the relationship. I really
enjoyed seeing that both of their responses to the homework

(01:07:41):
were actually quite aligned, showing that they're both on the
same page and do want the same things out of
a relationship. There were just some tweaks and things that
needed to be done differently in order for them to
achieve a fulfilling and happy relationship dynamic. I think one
of the basics that I really would prescribe to almost
I mean, I would say to any couple is to

(01:08:03):
do a weekly check in. And it's something that seems
so obvious, and yet it's so easy for life to
get busy and things to happen, and for us not
to make the time to do that check in with
our partner. But a weekly check in can be the
thing that makes such a difference. It gives you an
opportunity to communicate about things that are important. It gives

(01:08:26):
you the opportunity to communicate about also positive things that
you know we might think or feel, but we just
you know, as we're rushing out the door, we don't
mention to our partner that it made our day that they,
you know, put the coffee mug out for us and
had it ready when we were in a rush to
get to work and it's those little things that I
think we miss on communicating and if we don't have

(01:08:46):
an intentional time set aside to give that positive feedback
and reinforcement, but also to bring up the little grievances,
and I think without that, a lot of things get
swept under the rug and go unsaid and build up
into potential niggling problems. My biggest takeaway from Emma and
Sam is really that integral part of communication which couples

(01:09:12):
forget about making time for can make such a big difference.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
After that session, I feel a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:09:28):
Yes, I feel a lot more relaxed than I did
going into the first time. I feel like the process
over the week we're thinking about the homework and being
a bit more reflective on things helped me go into
this week feeling a little less anxious about things, and

(01:09:49):
I think coming out the other side, it's felt really
nice getting everything, you know, said that I wanted to say,
and I honestly feel like I've finished that session saying
everything I wanted to say, like almost to extemp where
I was like, I don't actually don't know if I
anything left to say to it, you know, or anything
more to express, which has been really nice. So I

(01:10:12):
think coming out from this session, I feel that I'm
being able to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
The things I wanted to talk about, because it probably.

Speaker 5 (01:10:20):
Was a point, you know, when I started this process
that I thought, maybe I'm doing this because I'm trying
to say, well, I don't want to do this anymore,
because I don't think I'm fighting for anything, because I
think that I'm you know, what's the point of fighting
for it because we're not really on the same page,
we don't want the same things, or we're living kind

(01:10:41):
of very separate lives. So it's been very nice to
hear him be reflected today about no, these are things
I want from place, because I do want this. I
do want to keep going down the path together.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
After that session, I feel like we're sort of tracking
towards the right outcomes for us as a relationship. I
feel like it is a really therapeutic and almost cleansing
process to get on and be have information sort of
drawn out of you that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
You might not talk about in.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
Your relationship or with anyone, and it gives you a
real clarity of mind wise.

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
To think clearly about the things.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
That are a priority, and you know, both personally and
your own personal health and journey and then you know,
combining that with the thoughts and processes with your partner
as well to make that relationship stronger and more positive too.

Speaker 4 (01:11:52):
So you know, I think anytime you get an opportunity.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
To work with and I would say someone is skilled
and sort of insightful as Sarah, it only enhances your Yeah,
I would say physical and mental health, because you are
getting things off your chest and any mind that sometimes
you don't even know that are there, but when you

(01:12:16):
spoak them out. And then also you realize the impact
you're having on someone else with your actions and behaviors.
It makes you aware that you have to work at
a relationship and that takes effort and time, and you
have to sometimes get rid of all the other things
that exist in your will to prioritize you know, that

(01:12:38):
person that you love and the relationship that you love.
And there's certainly more beneficial at this phase than when
you've gone to that irreparable phase.

Speaker 4 (01:12:48):
And yeah, maybe there's probably not.

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
A therapist in the world that can get you through that. Yeah,
I think prevention is better than you're.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
This is why We Fight was created by Nama Brown
and Eliza Sorman Nilson. The executive producer is Nama Brown.
Our studio engineer is Lou Hill. Sound design and music
by Tom Lyon, editing and sound design by Jacob Brown.
Additional production support from Leah Porgus and Coco Levine. Our

(01:13:18):
casting producer was Lisa Storer. If this conversation has brought
up any hard feelings, or if you just feel like
you need a bit of help, there are links in
our show notes to resources available to you right now,
as well as how to connect with my practice motivated minds.
If you'd like to apply to beyond the next season
of This Is Why We Fight, there's a link to
the application in our show notes too. I'm Sarah Bays.

(01:13:41):
Thanks for listening.