Former NFL Tight End and NFL Draft Analyst Logan Paulsen breaks down what his process is in evaluating over 400 prospects a year. He discusses how to balance college game production, physical measurements, All-Star Bowl performances and intangibles to find the best value in the draft. Then, he gives the essential traits at every position that you can look for when watching film at home. Plus, a quick review of the Commanders extremely productive 2024 Draft class, what made Adam Peters and Dan Quinns process so successful, and how that can project to this years potential Draft selections.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On today's episode of Ticket to the Draft podcast, we
got draft talk. We're back, baby, and you know we're
not getting ahead of ourselves. Mana's gotta go to the super Bowl.
But we are talking draft. We're talking how to evaluate prospects,
super high level things you can look for at.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Home right trust your eyes.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
We're talking NFL threshold, why those are important, and maybe
most importantly, we get into the weeds on every single
position and here's one or two things you can look
for that are essential. It all starts right now. Welcome
into the Ticket to Draft Podcast. I'm Logan Paulson here
with just a guy Jason and guys.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
We are here. We're back. We're here to talk draft.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
However, we're going to kind of like chill out today
specifically because we're still playing competitive football.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
The commanders are right, Ja.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah, we're in there.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, we're in it. Jordan Daniels, where it is.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
We're making a push for the playoffs, probably super Bowl.
But just know we want to kind of touch base
with you, guys. Make sure you understood that we're still
going to go to the Senior Bowl, We're still going
to the Combine. We're still going to give you all
of our kind of top flight insight on the draft.
We're gonna get the heavy hitters on here, Trevor Sikama,
Field Yates, some big boy kind of draft analysts on
here talk about their process.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
That's all coming.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
But again, we figured we're going to start the off
season when the Commanders start the off season, which hopefully
is after the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, we just wanted to get an episode out just
let you guys know that we are coming back again
this year. We put out like close to thirty podcasts
last year. Going through everything through this draft process, I
love it. I became a huge fan of the process,
really started grinding logan. You taught me so much and
maybe appreciate football so much more. It doesn't hurt that
(01:36):
I'm lucky enough to be in an organization or a
part of an organization that has Adam Peters when and
Jaden Daniels coming through. So seeing like what the rookie
class has done and watching their process and learning from
just watching right, Like, I don't have any inside information whatsoever.
(01:56):
I'm just watching what they're doing and it's it's crazy cool.
I'm like, I want to learn how to do that.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, No, I think that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
And I think it's it's funny like when the free
agency process has been so successful, when the draft process
has been so successful, you want to kind of kind
of distill and pick things from that and say, this
is why at work, this is things that we expect
the team to do moving forward. And it's always fun.
The more in depth each year that we get with
the draft, the more you learn about the process, the
more you learn about, hey, I may be missed on
(02:25):
this evaluation, or this is why this team missed on
this evaluation, talking with people, having conversations, and so it's
really just a fun time of year because it's a
time for every team in the NFL to get better
and hopefully if they're handling the process appropriately, everyone's getting better.
But every year someone screws something up, someone takes a
you know, like a little bit of a swing out
of fastball, and they miss it and onto the next
(02:46):
year and they kind of have to live with those decisions,
and some of them have long standing ramifications.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And it's just self scouting, right, that's kind of what
you're talking about. Like, for me, that's what I loved
this off season of this podcast is going back looking
at how I scouted things like Okay, what did I miss?
Why did I miss it? Can I is that an exception?
Is that a rule? And just trying to learn so
I can get better at this process. And I want
to say that like we had a we were very
(03:12):
lucky in that we had a lot of fans follow
this podcast, which was really humbling and awesome. I think
it's a lot because of you, because you're so incredibly
smart and talented. I have nothing to do with it.
I'm just a guy. It's all Logan, and I just
want people to know, like you need to like and
subscribe this podcast because Logan is going to I mean,
(03:34):
you get in the weeds more than I think, personally
more than anybody else. I listened to all the draft podcasts.
Maybe the PFF guys are right there because they they
get really into it with the stats. But having a
former ten year veteran of the NFL talk about what
it's like to be in the NFL, how you can
see maybe those traits, whether they're physical, they're mental, they're technical.
(03:57):
I think you have a step above almost in anybody
else out there, and you if you want draft content,
you need to put Logan balls in on whatever podcast
he's won. I recommend this one, but you need to
put him in your weekly cue.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Oh that's very nice for you.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And again, like it's cool to have a job where
I get to do with this stuff and talk talk
football and talk draft and talk about my passions and
so yeah, I think we should probably dig in a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
The first thing we want to talk about is what
can we expect from the Washington Commanders. And I think
this is a really good one because last year we
kind of saw this road map, this model of kind
of saying, hey, you know, we're going to draft good
football players, but who are captains? Team leaders? Good players
in college have these leadership qualities, are self starters, And
(04:45):
I think all of those things are extremely important and
I expect to see a lot of those things transfer
over again. However, it's interesting to watch teams that have
been part of long term building processes they still have
those underlying tenants, you know, like the self starters, the
the team captains. I think those are threads you'll see throughout.
But I kind of wonder this year if they'll take
a take some shots maybe in late rounds on guys
(05:08):
with traits, like every once in a while you see.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
The Philadelphia Eagles do this.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Last year, for example, they drafted Johnny Wilson, who is
this you know, six seven, two hundred and forty pound
wide receiver, you know, maybe not the best receiver, but
has these tremendous traits. They still have their kind of model,
but occasionally they'll take a flyer on someone who's exceptionally
talented in a later round just to kind of give
it a shot and see if it works out. I
wonder if you see some of that this year coming
(05:33):
into the Yark because again, you've kind of established the
foundation with all with this first class, with this first
free agency group, and I wonder if that's something we'll
see moving forward.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Do you how quickly do you think that teams are
able to do that to like take swing from the
heels in a sense, like a baseball term, just really
go for the grand slam when like you use the analogy,
last year, we're just trying to hit singles, ye, right,
because that's what AH not a rebuild, but a recalibrate
(06:03):
organization does. Just let's just get on base. We're a
little bit and then we can start taking these big
swings because we have a core in nucleus here that
we believe in.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, And I think it's it's kind of it's managing that.
So I think last year, everyone, every one of the
decisions felt like we're getting on base, We're getting a
connection with the athlete, we're getting connection with the organization.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We're having people who are, you know, good football players.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And I think the thing that sticks out to me
is when I talk to people at the combine, when
I talk to people are the Senior Bowl Scout specifically,
they're like, you want five sure things.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Quote unquote, guys you feel really good about.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
They fit the measurables, they their production is really good,
they're good citizens, they're good people. And then you can
take three guys that are maybe a little bit more risky.
And that was the person I talked to was from
like an established organization. I'm not going to reference the organization,
but they were from a established group that the staff
had been there for a long time, the coach had
been there for a long time. And I think, so
you're always going to want that foundational, like like get
(07:01):
on base type of guy, but every once in a while,
you can take one where you're like, I don't see
exactly what this is, but I see the athlete, I
see the upside, I see the work ethic, and I
see he's misused or miscast in college. I'm going to
take a swing at this, and I think he's going
to be something really special. I think a great example
of that is like yeah ya Dabi for example, for
Tampa Bay, Like I remember doing his evaluation. He was
(07:22):
playing this three four defensive end. He couldn't rush the
pass or he's playing basically defensive tackle, and then somebody
got it in my ear that he was going to
maybe project a defensive end and you start thinking about
it like that, You're like, oh my gosh, if that
hits with his size, his speed, his power that he
plays with, that could be a big, a huge, explosive
draft pick for them. And so there's a little bit
(07:44):
of projection there, kind of probably more than you'd be
comfortable with and like a normal like get on base
type of pick. And if you look at it, this
last year, he was like a top four pass rusher
in the NFL in terms of pressure rate. So that's
one where example, you take a guy in the third
round there's a little bit more risk associated with it
in terms of his developmental arc, but it works out
in a big way for that organization.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
So something that you're talking about there that I think
is interesting and you don't have to be a fan
of the Commanders listening to this podcast and get something
out of it, because I think a lot of good
organizations do this, And you reference it in the sense
of like, we're not just taking sometimes a guy that's
like everybody says, is good at football in college, right
like we're we're looking we're looking at a specific skill set,
(08:22):
how can it translate or a mentality and what I uh.
That's one of the things that the Commanders did a
lot of last year in the last draft that hit
for them is they were looking for a mentality. And
when you do that, sometimes you're not drafting for need.
You draft this is where the best player available comes in,
because an organization will sit there and they'll say, Okay,
(08:43):
maybe this guy has a little more talent, like college
stats were there he stood out, but maybe he doesn't
have these intangibles quote unquote that fit within what we
want of an organization, and so we'd rather take a
guy with this mentality and one or two traits that
we think will translate and mold them into something different
(09:05):
than they were in college.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, I think that's exactly right, because again, you want
you want the foundation, and that's something really hard is
like there's players, like there's certain schools that have the reputation,
Alabama being one of them of having kids that are
they're they're kind of constantly chaperone, they're kind of forced
to go to the workouts, they're forced to go to practice,
there's someone that goes to class with them, and they're
not great self starters because of the in the environment
(09:29):
that Nick Saban has developed and cultivated there. And Nick
Saban's talked about that too, right, But there are guys
like to your point, that are like, Hey, I'm going
to get an extra lift in, I'm going to be
early to practice, I'm going to stay late so i
can get my work done. And those are guys you
really want to make sure you're betting on right because
when you draft the player like that, with those kind
of intangibles, the leadership qualities, the work ethic, they're going
(09:51):
to continue to get better and ultimately, like the thing
that's so hard about the draft and why everyone says
it's a crapshoot and I'm not breaking any like revolutionary
ground here. For example, is that even though you get
an athlete who's very, very skilled, the game from college
to the NFL is different. And we talked about that
on last year's show, And so how do I get
a guy that's going to develop continue to grow in
(10:13):
this environment? And it's those intangibles that really make that go.
And I think you see that with guys like Mike Sanderstill,
Joshan Newton, like watched their developmental arc Jaden Daniels over
the course of the year. They'd never stayed the same,
they got better each and every week. We saw Mike
sand Rossel get beat on this type of route, the
next week he covers it up. Jade Daniels gets beat
by this type of coverage. And that's again, the coaches
(10:34):
are doing a great job supporting that athlete, but they
have to have something kind of internally that motivates them
to get better. And I think that's that's where like
we're doing talent evaluational like on large part on our end,
but they're doing scouting. And the scouting is the thing
that's the different thing there because it's what type of
person is he? What type of pro is he going
(10:55):
to be? And that's where you really and one of
the things that was so impressed last ye about Adam
Peter is he did that I felt like so incredibly
well finding a guy like Brandon Coleman who is kind
of this guard tweetyer player, but looked at the measurables,
looked at the athlete, talked to his coaches, and you're like,
oh man, this guy could maybe be a starting left
tackle the NFL. And so those are like that's where
(11:17):
the magic sauce is made, is finding those kind of
magic intangibles.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah. Absolutely, And it's a combination. Ultimately, when you put
your quote unquote big board together at the end, who
goes up at the top, Well, you want them to
hit the intangibles. You want them to hit the evalue
the ev ows that you do of just watching them,
like the technical how they move, how their ball control,
whatever that is. And then you want them to hit
(11:42):
the things of like the combine stuff right the forty time,
the bench press, like all these things is like you
combine them all up, mix them all together. Do you
have the perfect creative Matt and create a player in.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
There, absolutely, And I think that's something that is always
so fun and it's so fun when you're watching, Like
I consume a lot of draft content when I'm getting
ready to do this show, and it's so funny to
see how a good Senior Bowl or good Combine gets
changes the narrative about.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
A player because of these.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Like pre existing metrics that kind of support positional success.
So that's something that's always fun to kind of keep
an eye on, and something we're going to keep an
eye on for sure over the course of the show.
You know, we're gonna go to the Combine, gonna be
the Senior Bowl, so we'll we have a front row
seat to all that stuff, which is always a lot
of fun and and give you the talent evaluation and
how they fit in these certain boxes. But again, if
(12:33):
you're if you're really into the draft stuff, the best
draft nerds I know are always able to find out
little details about the player, right, Oh, the player X
is Oh he goes and does soup kitchens on the weekend,
and he does all this with his free time and
a good guy and study's extra and you know has
dinners at his house, brings the whole old line over
whatever it is, and all that stuff is the is,
the is, the is the finishing on the sauce that
(12:55):
really says this guy's going to make the jump to
the next level.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, and they put that in like the reality of
here in Washington. To me, what I remember of those
two things that as I did evaluation process as we went,
we didn't know was that Jaden there was talk he
shows up he's a first one at LSU, right, he's
the first one there. And then the VR training that
(13:18):
they said he would do all the time using a
VR headset and to learn defenses and work through that,
like just taking his preparation to another level. And like
we don't when you're at the combine, when you're at
the Senior Bowl, you don't see those things. You can
only hear those things from the janitor at Melis or
whatever when you talk to them. And so what I
(13:39):
want to ask you, though, is let's move into the
evaluation part of this, because this is the time where
people are really starting to get into evaluating prospects, especially
fans of other teams. Not to watch the commanders. Right now,
we're focused on the playoffs. But other teams, their fans
are looking at the draft. They've already moved ahead. So
let's talk about ways that they can evaluate players. And
(14:02):
we're going to do that by me asking you how
do you evaluate players? Because you're the expert here, so
give me your high level thoughts. When you're watching a player,
when you're watching a prospect, what are you looking at? First?
The very first thing, The.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Very first thing.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I have a column in my spreadsheet, which you know
that just simply says like yes or no, and it's
a very binary thing. But it's like, can this person
from a movement technical standpoint play at the NFL level?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And that becomes somewhat.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Suggestive, you know, as you go through the process, and
it's suggestive based on my opinion. But basically, like when
you're watching a guy. So I was watching the left
tackle from Michigan, for example, and he's on nobody's radar
right now, no one's talking about him. But I'm, you know,
watching the running backs from Michigan, and I'm like, oh,
who's this left tackle? So I'm kind of going through
his clips and I'm like, he's big, he's got a
good anchor, he's got strong hands, he's got good feet,
(14:53):
and so to me, even though no one's talking about him,
he's a senior, he's a grad senior.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
It's like he's a yes, right.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And then there's other guys on the list, Like there's
a tackle from Rutgers, for example, who's big fella, and
he's got a lot of hype around him, but when
you watch him, he.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Just doesn't move quite right.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
He can't set the bowl, he can't set his anchor
very well. And you're like, that's a no, because that's
a technical issue and an anatomical issue. Because of his
length length and his torso length. They say he's never
going to be able to play at the next level.
And you take another example of the right tackle for
Minnesota for example, and he is technically perfect, it's.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Excellent to watch.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
He anders, sounds, had an anchor and says that to
drive his feet, sink on contact, all these different things.
But then you see a move in space and you're like,
I don't know if he's athletic enough to be anything
more than kind of a rotational backup. So that column
is my first jumping off point.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
And you're saying, like you're talking about some technical things,
but you're saying you just you're not dissecting it technically,
you're able to call it out because you've done this, yeah,
for so long. But something just looks on.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's just off, like the movement skills aren't right. They
can't set a bull or like a receiver, they just
look like that's a big thing that shows up. Maybe
the number one thing in this column is just a
lack of athleticism or a general stiffness that you just
got to be aware of that. And when you're looking
when you're talking about athleticism, stiffness, all these they're kind
(16:16):
of subjective, but you know, there's certain receivers where you
watch them get out of break and they kind of
get stuck at the top and it's because they're too
stiff in the hips. Their ankles don't bend the right way,
and they get a pass broken up and you're like,
that could be a fatal flaw at the next level.
Or you get a big wide out they're six ' four,
they're two twenty, and they can't quite run, so then
you say no as a receiver, but maybe yes, it's
(16:37):
a tight end or something like that. And I think
that's where that column is and that's just the super
high level stuff, right, And it does help when you're
kind of distilling all this information. Like our goal, like
last year we watched I want to say, two hundred
and twenty five guys. This year, the goal is to
watch three hundred guys. And so when you're going through
three hundred athletes, you need to get your list down.
I think you hear about some teams going into the
(16:57):
draft with a draft list of fifty athletes. It's fifty
guys that they are targeting in the draft. That's essentially
what I'm doing with that metric is like, yes, this
guy can do it, No, this guy can't do it.
And as the process goes, that does change for me.
But usually that I find that that first kind of
knee jerk reaction is very It kind of sets the tone, right,
(17:18):
and it's kind of like and oftentimes I go back
and I check that yes, no, and I'm like, man,
I was right about this six months ago, and I
kind of talked myself out of it because of something
else than I read.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, absolutely, So what's the next step then?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, So that's like kind of like a general movement assessment.
And then there's also like an element of this next
column in there, and this one's maybe more important is
the compete toughness category, right, because what that does for
me is it kind of informs.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Like, hey, this athlete. It shows a.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Willingness, a want to, a grit and usually not always,
but usually that player is successful at the NFL level
because it shows a passion and a hunger and a
want to. And so what I'm talking about a great example,
I've used this every year done the show, is like
a receiver on a crack block.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
A receiver gets in there, he's going to crack the safety.
It's a big physical play. A lot of receivers they
kind of take creative angles, they kind of dodge out
of it. But when you see a dude put his
mouthpiece in, getting a tight split and crack that guy,
crack that safety on a block, tough, really physical play.
I'm like that receiver. I don't know anything about him,
but I know that he loves football because that's something
(18:24):
that the position does not want to do. They don't
like that, and he's doing it at a really high level.
And you look at receivers that have been successful that
I'm not kidding Amina Saint Brown. That was something that
I had in his avout was a yes on the
toughness Jamison Williams because we're talking about Detroit, Like I
remember watching He's a skinny, kind of frail guy. He
played gunner on kick on punt, he was cracking on
(18:45):
run plays, he's blocking on screens. Those things are like, man,
that's the type of athlete, the competitor that I want.
And I think that toughness, that competitiveness again, it informs
some of the scouting stuff that we don't get and
that's why it's such an important metric.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
So what are some things where like a general fan
can just trust their eyes on they can look at
it and they can say, Okay, I can see that
this guy is doing this.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I think it depends on how much football you've watched,
Like we were talking about this the other day, and
for me, if you've watched a lot of ball, there
are certain times you're like that doesn't look right. There's
something wrong, and what is what's wrong about it?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I can't really put my finger on it, but trust
that initial gut reaction. So for example, like when you're
watching Will Campbell, like everything technically he's the tackle from LSU.
Everything technically looks great, like he's in good position, he
moves well. You're like, okay, this is all good. But
then you watch a couple of pass pro reps. You're like,
why is this hard for him? And the thing that
jumps out to me is like, hey, there's maybe a
(19:40):
lack of length. There's maybe an issue with his ability
to play tackle at the next level. Like trust those
little moments where you're like, the foot speed's off, the
hand placement's off, and that usually informs that yes, no, right,
Just make a little note to yourself and say, hey,
this is what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
We're okay with that.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And some of those things you may not like average
you won't be able to, like, won't be able to
technically see what it is, but just trust your eyes
and the evaluation.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, trust your eyes.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
And again, you depends on how much much football you watch, Like,
I know you've watched a ton of football, and so
there's certain things that you.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
See where a receiver catches.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
A ball and it doesn't look quite right, like why
is he fighting the ball so much? Like what's going
on there? Make a note of that. Trust that because
again like are they a natural hands catcher, And you
can get into technico he's tracking the ball wrong or
a thumb should be up or his body positions like whatever.
But if it looks weird, usually that's a pretty good
indicator that they're not a great catcher of the fall. Now,
there are exceptions like Terry McCormick Coorin kind of catches
(20:35):
the ball awkwardly. But then that's where you go to
like an underlying metric and say, oh, actually it's not
problematic for him because it never drops the ball, you
know what I'm saying. So, like there are things like
that where you got to kind of there are exceptions,
but trust that initial first take I find.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
So then why does the combine matter so much?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Right?
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Because they're not playing football right and they're throwing routes
on air and so all these things. When the combine
is a big, big, big moment in the draft process
forty times arm length, right bench press. If you're able
to evaluate a player like you said and just trust
your eyes and be able to say, okay, something doesn't
look great, how can they then go to the combine
(21:14):
and go, Okay, we're moving you up. Even if there's
something a little bit off what's happening there.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So for example, like I think a really good example
of this from a couple of years ago was Peter Skorronsky.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
When you watch Peter Skoronski, like, there's something about his body,
how it bends, how he sinks, and you're like, he's
a good football player. But everyone's saying, are you going
to play tackle? Are you going to play guard? Are
you going to play center?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Like? What are you going to do in this space?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And then when you get to the combat and you
got thirty two inch arms, like, it makes me really
skeptical that you're going to be able to play a
tackle to the next level, Like, it just makes me
skeptical because the threshold there is usually thirty four inches
for arm length, right, And why is that? Because defensive
ends are bigger, they're taller, they're longer. Their minimum thresholds
about thirty four inches, And you want your offensive tackle
to be able to reach out and to the defensive
(22:00):
player before they can touch you. And it just helps
you sink a bawl. In pass protection, it helps you
kind of negotiate hand fighting, it helps you recover more.
Imagine if I had, you know, like Dwan Jones, for example,
from my house state a couple years. I got thirty
six in charms. I've seen him in the NFL miss
a punch, refit his hand because he's got an extra
six inches of work here that the guy has.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
To throw his move.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
He can pull his hand back and then punch again
because of that extra distance he's provided. You see it
in MMA fights all the time.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, it's like a boxer.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
It's one hundred percent right. So it is a it's
a huge variable.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
For offensive lineman. And then Peter Scrans's going to be
a good pro, right, but he's going to be good
prot guard. So if I if I'm a team making
an investment in a tackle, which will tend to be
harder to find, I'm going to look for somebody who
kind of has more of those measurement qualities I'm looking for.
I think, you know, we talked about Brandon Coleman like
that was a great fine last year because I kind
of had him as a guard. But then when you
look at the measurements, you're like, man, athletically, this is
(22:55):
a profile that fits a tackle. He's got thirty five
inch arms, he's six y four, he's three twenty, he
runs a four to nine, he's got a ten yard
split that's top ten percent in the NFL. And so
if I'm going to take a shot on a guy
in a third round, I'm going to take that shot
because he can go to tackle. If he fails at tackle,
because he's got all these measurements, he easily transitions to guard.
(23:15):
And I think that's something where that's why those measurements
are so important. That receivers are another great example. There's
a receiver you might love, right, He's like a nice
shifty slot receiver. He's winning with explosiveness and speed, and
then he goes to the combine and he jumps twenty
eight inches and you're like, that's not very explosive. He
has a nine foot broad that's not very explosive. He
runs a four seven forty. All of a sudden, all
(23:36):
those explosive measurements you saw on film, you have to
call in a question. You have to be like, is
it worth taking a risk on a guy who's not
actually that explosive and fast, who's winning with explosion in speed?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
And I think that because there's so many college players, Yeah,
so many teams, so many conferences that maybe this guy
looks really explosives on Shilm, but it's because it's all
real to everything that's going on around him. Right, Maybe
the competition's not as high. He's not playing against potential
NFL talent. You don't tend to see this with teams
(24:09):
like LSU, Alabama, like all the because all these guys
are going to the NFL, not all of them, but
this is NFL talent that's on the field. So you
get a good idea that like, Okay, well they can
make the transition up. You expect them to do certain
things at the combine, whereas somebody like say Quinnon Mitchell
last year from a smaller school comes out and it's like, okay,
(24:30):
he dominated his competition in college. Come to the Combine
and the Senior Bowl. Go one on one with lad McConkie. Right,
go to the combine. Show us what your measurements are
so we don't think that our eyes are being tricked
on us because we're watching everybody move slower. So when
you're the when you're the fastest guy on a slow team,
(24:52):
we want to know are you the fastest guy on
a fast team?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Correct, And I think it's just it just kind of
gives you, like a it just gives you a better
understanding of the athlete and the player and what they
can and can't do.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And I know, those those thresholds.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Everyone says, oh, like there's exceptions, right, But there's a
reason there are exceptions. It's because most of the people
fall into these bikes. Like, if you were to go
around NFL, arm length for tackles is a really interesting
one because it's almost across the board like thirty three
and a half inches and up, Like, you're never going
to find a tackle with thirty two inches, Like it's
just too hard with the athleticism and speed of the
(25:25):
of the ed dressers in the NFL. Like, so if
you get a guy that you really like an evaluation,
but he's got thirty two inch arms, You're like, what
is what is the likelihood that, even though he's a
great athlete, that he's going to be super successful as
a pass protector in the NFL? Probably not great, you know,
So I got to kind of factor that in. Now,
there's other factors, like let's say he's got tremendous foot
speed or tremendous size or tremendous, you know, balance and anchor,
(25:45):
like those are things where we get more technical on
the evaluation and you say, okay, I'm comfortable with that,
but oftentimes like I'm not. You know, it just depends.
It depends on the guy for sure, and maybe.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
You're comfortable with that in a later round. So, right,
that's where you start assigning the ground grades, because your
first round talents generally fit check all these all these boxes,
generally most of them. Where you're taking, like you said,
you're taking swings at fastballs in the later rounds, you're
betting on something like Okay, yeah he doesn't have this,
(26:16):
but he has the toughness, he has to compete and
he has he said, the foot speed. So we're okay
with and we're taking that shot in the fourth round.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
And we have a plan for him, right, we have
a plan for like his his trajectory in the organization.
We can try and tackle, move to guard, maybe you
can play center, right, all those things, and maybe we
prefer him as a swing interior player. And that's there's
value there too. And so that's the other thing too
that I'm trying to incorporate into my draft grades this year.
Is like, even though I don't see this guy could
ever be like a starting caliber player, Like, there's tremendous
value to like Cornelius Lucas, right, a swing tackle that
(26:47):
can play both sides and you don't really lose a
like there's not a big drop off. So there's also
that like Cornelius Lucas when you look at his evaluation,
long arms, big guy developed a lot in the NFL,
but the foot speed is a little bit lacking. But
for his role perfect right, it fits exactly what you want.
He knows both spots, he covers you up in in
a really nice way. So there's that element too. It's
like what level of player do you expect this person
(27:09):
to be? And for the top flight guys, the first
second round guys in the NFL draft, like they should
have certain qualities of this, certain of these physical traits
that you're like, Okay, good lock, and that's why they're there.
That's one of the reasons why they're there. In conjunction
with the film they've put out.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, so let's get a little bit into the weeds list. Okay,
I'm going to go through position groups and I want
you to give me one or two things that are
a little more technical, a little more detailed, that I
want you to kind of teach me about and be like,
all right, when you watch, for example, let's start with
the O line. Since we're talking about when you watch o'lignman,
I want you to look at this. Here's a technical
thing that you can look look at that not a
(27:46):
lot of people pick up, but it's going to be
a good evaluator to how they're going to be at
the next level.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, so this is going to sound really, really nerdy.
So number one thing for offensive line is foot speeds, slash,
just general athleticism.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
That's number one thing.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And that sounds crazy, But how do you track a
linebacker at the second level? How do you get out
on a screen? How do you pull? How do you
cut off a backside three technique? Those kind of dynamic,
explosive movements for the offensive line. I really value those
because they show an athletic ceiling. So like Josh Shimmons
for Ohio State, I've only watched half of a game
that he's played in, but he is so tremendously athletic
(28:20):
that I'm like, he's like, he might be my best
tackle in the class like even though he's coming off
an injury, because of the athletic movement skills. That is
like maybe the number one thing, because you want your
Perna Suol, you want your Trent Williams, you want your
you know, Tristan Worfs. They have to have to essential
to have those movement skills, right, would.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
You say then that the O line, you're less concerned
with their technical abilities, more concerned with their raw traits
because just God only made so many guys like that.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
That is a that is a huge element.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
But the next element of it is so this first
thing and the second second thing are like one A,
one B. So the second thing for me is core
like mid section strength, so like hips adductor's strength. So
when someone collisions you, what does your body do? Like
there are certain guys you watch them and they just
kind of crumple or their legs get out from under them,
(29:10):
or they get elevated out of that spot. And there's
other guys where their ribcage states attached to their pelvis,
they lock in and they're just an excellent there's an
excellent play strength there. So both of those things come together, right,
So when you're looking at Tristan Wurf's he is that
to a t he moves well, he's locked in his
mid sex and super tag. You try to bull him,
there's never like a disassociation between his hips and his
(29:31):
upper body. It's always locked in. Trent Williams, same thing
in a school, same thing. So those two things are
the offensive line. If I see both of those things,
I'm like, there, you are a special, special athlete at
the position. And I'm like that, even if you're technically
not playing very well, I'm going to take a shot
on you. So like, for example, let's take Evan Neil.
(29:54):
He had a terrible disconnection of his chest and his
hips right. You bull them and he'd kind of lose
it or he'd fall on the ground a lot. Bad
foot speed, bad connection.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
The guy who plays in Carolina now they're left tackle.
I forget his name, but he had bad foot speed right.
And so those are things for elite left tackles that
I and right tackles that I'm like, these are the
two things that I have to see.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Now.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
You can sometimes compensate with arm lane for whatever, but
those are the things that if I don't see those
right away, I'm kind of like, eh, Like, I don't
know where you're gonna fit. Swing guy, rotational guy, maybe
a three year starter at some point in a pinch.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
But that's what I'm looking at.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Let's jump to the other side of the ball and
do defensive tackles and then spin off with edges because
you're a little bit different when you're trying to evaluate.
So when you're looking at a d tackle, let's start
there first. What do you want to see?
Speaker 1 (30:43):
So this is going to sound crazy, but I'm looking
for athletes, and it's a different type of athlete than
the offensive lineman.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Right. I want a guy who's really linearly explosive. Right.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
You watch Mason Graham this year from Michigan. Man, he
can pop you. He's got great hand usage, He's explosive
from the hips. He can and take a base instead
of double team. He can raise and lower his pads
really well, and that's something I think is really valuable.
Like his running mate, I forget number seventy eight, the
defensive tackle that plays next to him, And as we go,
I'll get better with the names as we get into
the draft stuff more. He plays really high, kind of
(31:15):
gets pushed off the spot. He's a good player, but
he doesn't have those elite traits the the explosion the
hip the hip and the sink of the hips. So
those are two things with the tackles. And then I'm
going to add this other one in hand usage. Right,
do they use their hands well? Because those guys I
find that when they can use their hands can overcome
some of those athletic deficiencies.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
So give me an example of good hand usage. So technique.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, So, like for example, when you're looking for something
like and you're and let's say a guy's getting a
double team, right, his ability to take and put his
hands directly on the best play of the guard, extend
his elbows and sink his hips and stalemate the guard
like that with length to then shed that block and
make the tackle.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That's exactly what you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
That's like, if you you see that a couple of times,
you see that consistency, you see that reaction, you're going
to be pretty good. Like Jason last year had a
lot of those right hands flash boom, we're going to
pursue of the football, sink ki, all those types of
things were on the table. And again that vertical penetration
that explosiveness from that defensive tackle. Now, edge is a
(32:20):
totally different ball of wax to me. You're looking for athlete, athlete, athlete,
athlete and production, like that's what you're looking for. And
there's certain positions that have a really high correlation here.
If you test well at the combine and you had
ten saxon college, you're probably going to be pretty good
in the NFL, Like, you're probably gonna be pretty.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
What happens and we had this last year, I'm not
going to say exactly who you have someone that tests
off the charts, but no production.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
That's something that always makes me a little bit nervous, right,
I think you look at there's been a couple of
guys that have hit from this, like Gray up in
Green Bay is that his name? The number fifty two
in Green Bay was like this. There's been people that
have done this over the course of the NFL, and
they do find a way after like three or four
years to hit, right, So there is a little bit
of a own way, there's a little bit of precedent.
(33:08):
Is it worth taking a shot on? Yes, but you
have to understand that it's a developmental window. When you
see the guy who's like a lot too. Last year, right,
he tested fine and he was crazy productive in college,
Like he will be fine. I think he had seven
sacks this year. Like that was kind of right where
I thought he'd be. I thought, maybe you get to ten.
But there's a little bit of variance in sacks production.
(33:29):
But that's exactly what you thought from him, right, Jared
Versus is a great example. Right, I was a little
bit worried about the athlete, but the production was so
good his entire time at Florida State. And you're like,
I should have weighed that more, probably based on his
athletic profile, which is great at the combine. So with
that position, to me, it's one of the easier positions
because it's like athlete production, check check, you're gonna be fine, right, all.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Right, let's stay on the defensive side here and go
to linebacker. Probably you said last year at several times
the hardest one for you to evaluate in some In
some ways.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
It's really hard because it's multi factorial. Right, you need
to have a physicality, you need to have an intelligence.
It's kind of like quarterback of the defense. I know
that's like probably a stereotypic answer, but It's like quarterback
for the defense, right. You have to know run fits,
you have to get guys lined up, you have to
show an intelligence, and you have to do a lot
of stuff. And so for me, the number one that's
gonna sound crazy, The number one thing for linebackers.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Is coverage skills.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
You have to be able to cover because the way
the NFL game is going, because that implies movement skills. Right,
So if I can match up with the tight end
and cover them and man and man situations, I'm gonna
be on the field more. And you look at the
guys who've been the best the last couple of years.
Your Fred Warner's, your Luke Keikley's, your Levante David's, they
all have that coverage instinct. Now if you see that instinct,
(34:48):
that coverage ability apply to a physicality also, oh man,
you got yourself one, right.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
And again, you kind of.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Hope that because of those two traits, they have that
kind of killer instinct that wishing to play the position
of middle linebacker at the NFL level.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
But that's a hard one for me because I don't know.
I haven't sat in a meeting with them, I haven't
talked with them. I don't know they're but like I
love when I see a linebacker that I like that
has covered a tight end. He's fit a full back
or he's fit a guard, and all of a sudden,
you see you getting empty. The offense does and he
makes an empty check because I'm like, oh, this guy's
locked in. Not every college linebacker does that, but when
(35:24):
you see that, that's kind of like, Oh, that's a
big that's a big plus for me.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
What about defensive bats, Oh.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
My gosh, defensive backs, it's hard, man, this is this.
Linebackers are the hardest, but defensive backs, in my opinion,
have the most variance because they're so scheme dependent. So
that was one of the things about Quinny and Mitchell
that was tough because like at Toledo, like he didn't
do a lot of like man coverage, a lot of
zone and so when I see a cornerback, I want
to see him basically play man coverage, like that's what
(35:51):
I want to do. And it helps if you had
zone instincts, but I need to see you kind of run, react,
anticipate route concepts because it shows that you can do
some stuff in z oonne I think a good example
that was Sauce Gardner, like they had a man and
man situations versus Alabama, Right, and you're like, Okay, this
is good, this is good.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
And the other thing.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
About corners, I need to see them tackle. I need
to see them be playman coverage and be physical as
all outdoors. And people are like, why are they're corners?
That is the position in the NFL where you have
to tackle. Every run is being forced to you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, you've said that multiple times. You've been in offenses
where they say, yeah, our job is to get the
running back on your dB.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
And you know Fred and Fred Smoot and I differ
in this. He's like, I want to see him cover
their coverage players, but I've seen so many guys fail
because they don't have that dog, that dog and him
to come up and make a tackle. And so for me,
it's man coverage and can you make a tackle in
the run game?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Yeah, absolutely, it's It's definitely the hardest one. But this
is also why the process, like the Combine's great, right,
This is why the Senior Bowl and the Shrine Bowl
are good, right, because you get a player like quin Yon,
who last year was a standout at the senior role
because everybody wanted to see him against better competition and
out of that zone. And when he was, he shined.
(37:10):
Right then it's like, okay, that checks the box that
I couldn't see on film, couldn't see in that evaluation.
Now I got it here all right. So DB's have
to cover the wide receivers, and it seems like there
is always a ton of good wide receivers coming out
every year. So what are you looking for to differentiate
a top round the first round, second round wide receiver
(37:32):
and the guys who want to take flyers on maybe
later rounds.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Flyers later are size speed guys for me, like take
those guys later. If you're a like Slad McConkie, to me,
is maybe perfect. Like last year, I remember turning on
the film with Georgia and being like you will be
a great NFL pro Like that was the first Like
I watched five of his targets and was like, you
got it? And so what is that it? It is
understanding of defensive leverages. How to get to a base
(38:01):
like double stick or release break that DB's leverage like
get to where you're not supposed to be in the
defensive coverage, work your stems right, vertical stem, angled stem
to you to set up your route to create space
for yourself, and not everyone understands it. Not everyone gets it.
And when you see that, it's like it's like big
flashing lights. You're like, yes, this is it, this is
(38:24):
the one, and it's the reason you see you know,
like DK metcalf kind of struggle like at times because
he doesn't have that route running nuance. He's just horsepower
and there's a time and place for that, right, But
there's a reason there's like one Dk Metcalf right, and
there's a bunch of guys like you know, Malik Neighbors
or Lad McConkey or these guys that have these tremendous
route running nuance to their game. And so to me,
(38:47):
if you can run fast and you have that ability
like I am your best friend as a as a guy,
and obviously catching the football, if you fight the football,
I'm going to really watch a lot of film on
you because I want to make sure you can catch
the ball.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah. I was actually going to say that a big one.
Don't underestimate it, guy catches the ball. The other one
I would say is like watch the routes where they
don't get the ball or not. Is he running hard?
Is he trying to work to get the other guy open?
Is it like if it's a run play, is he
running up to try and block? Like that's going to
tell you how much they're going to That's the one too.
(39:23):
That's good competitiveness. How you talked to earlier, that's really
going to play into it. Yeah, I think, all right,
let's speed through these here. Running backs.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, running backs are interesting to me because it's hard,
like because they're usually the best football player like in
high school and so they're the best one of the
better football players in college meeting. They can block, they
can tackle. So for me, it's like I want to
see the highway speed. Stuff's speed specifically for running back
and then toughness and so what is toughness expressed?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
As it's like do I pick up a blitz? Like?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
How do I finish runs? Like how do I run
short yardage? Do I step out of bounds when I
don't have to? Or do I finish and punish the defender?
Another one for me in running backs, it's big is
just vision, Like I was watching a running back, the
running back from.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Michigan or Edwards.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
And if the hole wasn't there, the run wasn't there
for him, then you watch a couple other guys and
you're like, oh, there's a little crease here. I can
put his foot in the ground and kind of sneak
through here. Oh it's not blocked. Well, he's going to
get skinny, cram his head in there. We've got a
three yard gain on something that should have been a
tackle for one, Right, how do you maximize the blocking surface?
And so highway speed is obviously a big deal, right,
(40:28):
Dereck Henry's your sake one Barcleay's Christian McCaffrey to a
certain extent, right, But the vision and the toughness for
a back, vision and toughness.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah, And man, I was going to say the same thing,
logan to bounce off of that. Like one of the
things I try and look at is does the running
back bounce too early?
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Right?
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Is there a hole opening up? Just be a little
patient or just hit this hole hard and you got
a four yard run instead of I'm trying to bounce
out and now everybody's conversion on me. It's a two
yard loss because I just don't want to hit that
hole right now, right, Like I just don't want to
dive in there. So yeah, that goes right along with it,
all right, this is your favorite. You were a tight
(41:05):
end for ten years in the NFL. What are you
looking for from a tight end in college? And there
are some good ones.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
This one's frustrating for me because it's changed a lot
since I started doing this, and so now it's like
it's athletes, it's measurables, like this is a defensive line
type of position, and so like I had a conversation
with somebody at the Combat a couple of years ago
about the last twenty starting tight ends. So this was
over a course, like a fifteen year period. All were
(41:31):
like greens basically, which means they hit height, weight, speed,
arm length metric all greens, right, And there's only been
two starting players who have not met that metric who
started over the last fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
I was one of them. I started a couple of
games here right.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Look at you.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, So there for that position. If you do not
hit the measurables, big red flag right away, right, because
what do you do? What's your role? And I think
there's a couple things here, right, You're looking for two
different types of players. You're looking for that you know Lovelnd,
that travel Kelsey guy and catch football be a mismatch weapon.
That's one skill set. You're also looking for a guy
that can block in line like a John Bates, and
(42:06):
both those things have value both teams need. Most teams
in the NFL need both of those players. Obviously, the
offensive line type guy, the John Baits type guy, is
going to be bigger, heavier. You need to see a
tremendous amount of technical proficiency and a tremendous amount of
grit just toughness.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Do you see a combination of those often in tight
end anymore where they're gonna block and they're gonna get
open like how a Kelsey would or are teams out
just going you know what I want? I want one
that's more of a blocker, one that's more of a
route runner.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, I would say, yeah, you're see a little and
obviously you got to do both, like I think zach Ertz,
to his credit this year, has done a great job
of kind of embracing the blocking role a little bit.
So with like Loveland, for example, he's like six ' five,
I want to say he's like two forty three. It's
not a big guy, but he's tough, like he'll throw
his face in there, he'll block a defensive end. You
don't want that matchup all the time, but he's tough
enough to get that done.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
He's physical enough to get that guy done. And then
you got a guy like Warren from pen Sake. What's
his first name is a ty Warn Tyler Warren Tyler Warren. Yeah,
who can kind of do both. He's a little stiff
in the hips and with tight ends. This is something
that I have talked to probably fifteen tight end coach
in the NFL. If you see stiffness in the hips
or ankles, huge red flag, huge red flag for red
coach for tight end coaches because they think it's indicative
(43:20):
of injury. Now, that could be like an old wives tale,
but for me, it's athlete measurables, right, college production? And
then their role in your team, right, are you a blocker?
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Are you a pass catcher? Because what are we going
to do?
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Yeah? All right? The last one, most important one.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I was cussed because I saw this on here.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Quarterback look for quarterback to be fair, commanders were not
in the market quarterback. But but I will say this,
every team needs depth at quarterback, and so I wouldn't
be surprised if any team drafts a quarterback at some
point or another. Now, this doesn't mean they'll be a
(43:59):
starter for that, but almost every team, and quarterbacks are
so expensive now, they're like, if you can get a
backup quarterback when a rookie deal, that's advantageous for you.
So my point, I guess is like, we're commanders. We
clearly have Jade and Daniels. We are not in the
market for a quarterback. But it's still important to look
at these guys, especially in the later round. So what
are you looking for?
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah, this one is tough because my I've grown up
a lot in this category. So I kind of want
to say like twelve things, but I'm trying to keep
it to two. One is a consistency, right, A consistency
with your footwork, a consistency with your arm mechanics. And
everyone says, well, now, like Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson,
they're making all these off schedule throws, but when you
watch them, there's a consistency with their lower body mechanics
(44:41):
and their upper body mechanics, even when they're vacating the pocket,
there's a consistency there, right, And that consistency means that
I can it leads, It tends to lead to accuracy, right,
and good ball placement down the field. That and then
what kind of student are you? You have to be
a great star student of the game. You have to
constantly be learning. You have to constantly be the first one.
(45:03):
And you have that when I hear of that about
a quarterback, and most schools will kind of just volunteer
that like kind of you know, because they want them
to get drafted.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
But that thing is huge. And then the other element.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Is how do you process stuff? How do you process
the defense? Because it's not always a stagnant picture, and
especially in the NFL, because the hashes are tighter, defenses
can decide stuff longer. The windows are smaller, right, because
you don't have this big vacant hash to the left
of the field. I'm always like, how do you process information,
consistency of mechanics, consistency of play, just in general, and
(45:37):
then student and this, and we could I could have
a list of twenty things that I'm looking at here,
but those are probably a push those to the top.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Yeah. I mean with quarterback, I feel like you're constantly
looking for like, uh, like a hypocrite in a way.
And what I mean by that is you want someone
that's a huge nerd, giant nerd, loves to study, loves
everything about football, can't get enough of football, but also
has that dog in him. He's going to go out,
(46:07):
he's going to take kids, he's going to step in
the throads, he's going to compete, and he's going to
put the team on his back, like emotionally sometimes and
like you need both of those.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Did you come up with that right now? Yeah? Right now?
That was great? Yeah, because that's exactly what you're looking for.
You're looking for.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
You're looking for a paradox, right, You're looking for that's
better than a charismatic, dynamic leader who's also a nerd,
who's also can relate to everybody on the team, but
it is also a little bit of above everybody unicorns.
It's a weird, it's a weird position to evaluate, and
it's that one yes and no. For me, there's a
lot of no's, a lot of no's, and when you
(46:40):
find a yes, you're like, oh, oh oh, this is exciting.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
This is what is this? What's happ Yeah?
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Fred says a lot of things, but one of the
things that I do like that he says often is
there are nine billion people in the world and we
can't find thirty two of them to play quarterback at
a high level. And he's right about it. It's the
unicorn that you have to fin and I guess what, We
got one here and watch.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Dude, how fun has this been? Time?
Speaker 3 (47:03):
It's been amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
It's been fun talking on this show, take it to
the draft last year and going through so much film
of him and all these other guys, and to see
all of those questions get answered and to see all
of those things we loved about him be even better here.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
It was just it's just been.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
A tremendous journey and really cool to watch from last
year's episodes all that stuff, and to be here making
a push in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
It's so exciting. And yeah, so we're not going to
come back until we win the Super Bowl. I think
so like this is our last episode until then. But
if we happen to not make it, which I think
probability is low that we don't make the super Bowl.
Now with Jade and Daniels on it and the Super Bowl.
KP's currently wearing. But if we were to come back
(47:47):
before the super Bowl, the Senior Bowl is a week
before that. We will be in Mobile, Alabama. We will
do a podcast every day after every practice of the
Senior Bowl. Same thing. Once we get to the Combine,
we'll break down the combine and all that, and then
we'll have Draft Night for you to and we'll do something,
if not weekly, regular in between those things too, leading
(48:08):
you all the way up to their draft. So if
you're a fan of the Commanders, man, just enjoy it.
Oh my gosh, soak it in. I've been a fan
for so long of this team and it feels amazing.
And if you're not, you'll still get great content in
this podcast, I promise you. As we move forward, we'll
even talk about the top quarterbacks at some point, for like,
obviously we have nothing to do with them, but they're hot,
(48:30):
as we'll talk about them. Maybe they go to a
divisional ride, right, so you'll get Logan's evaluations when these
guys moving forward, Like I said, we're gonna get guys
like Field Yates, Trevor Sika, m'connor, Rodgers, Matthew Berry we
had on last year as well. Like, we will get
these guys again. I've already reached out, some of them
have already said yes, and I know the other guys will.
(48:51):
We see them all the time at these events. So yeah,
please like, subscribe, turn on net notuification. We'll be back
after the host an a Lombardi Trophy in DC.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Pretty sick. Mm hmmm mm hmm
On today's episode of Ticket to the Draft podcast, we
got draft talk. We're back, baby, and you know we're
not getting ahead of ourselves. Mana's gotta go to the super Bowl.
But we are talking draft. We're talking how to evaluate prospects,
super high level things you can look for at.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Home right trust your eyes.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
We're talking NFL threshold, why those are important, and maybe
most importantly, we get into the weeds on every single
position and here's one or two things you can look
for that are essential. It all starts right now. Welcome
into the Ticket to Draft Podcast. I'm Logan Paulson here
with just a guy Jason and guys.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
We are here. We're back. We're here to talk draft.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
However, we're going to kind of like chill out today
specifically because we're still playing competitive football.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
The commanders are right, Ja.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah, we're in there.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, we're in it. Jordan Daniels, where it is.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
We're making a push for the playoffs, probably super Bowl.
But just know we want to kind of touch base
with you, guys. Make sure you understood that we're still
going to go to the Senior Bowl, We're still going
to the Combine. We're still going to give you all
of our kind of top flight insight on the draft.
We're gonna get the heavy hitters on here, Trevor Sikama,
Field Yates, some big boy kind of draft analysts on
here talk about their process.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
That's all coming.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
But again, we figured we're going to start the off
season when the Commanders start the off season, which hopefully
is after the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, we just wanted to get an episode out just
let you guys know that we are coming back again
this year. We put out like close to thirty podcasts
last year. Going through everything through this draft process, I
love it. I became a huge fan of the process,
really started grinding logan. You taught me so much and
maybe appreciate football so much more. It doesn't hurt that
(01:36):
I'm lucky enough to be in an organization or a
part of an organization that has Adam Peters when and
Jaden Daniels coming through. So seeing like what the rookie
class has done and watching their process and learning from
just watching right, Like, I don't have any inside information whatsoever.
(01:56):
I'm just watching what they're doing and it's it's crazy cool.
I'm like, I want to learn how to do that.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, No, I think that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
And I think it's it's funny like when the free
agency process has been so successful, when the draft process
has been so successful, you want to kind of kind
of distill and pick things from that and say, this
is why at work, this is things that we expect
the team to do moving forward. And it's always fun.
The more in depth each year that we get with
the draft, the more you learn about the process, the
more you learn about, hey, I may be missed on
(02:25):
this evaluation, or this is why this team missed on
this evaluation, talking with people, having conversations, and so it's
really just a fun time of year because it's a
time for every team in the NFL to get better
and hopefully if they're handling the process appropriately, everyone's getting better.
But every year someone screws something up, someone takes a
you know, like a little bit of a swing out
of fastball, and they miss it and onto the next
(02:46):
year and they kind of have to live with those decisions,
and some of them have long standing ramifications.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And it's just self scouting, right, that's kind of what
you're talking about. Like, for me, that's what I loved
this off season of this podcast is going back looking
at how I scouted things like Okay, what did I miss?
Why did I miss it? Can I is that an exception?
Is that a rule? And just trying to learn so
I can get better at this process. And I want
to say that like we had a we were very
(03:12):
lucky in that we had a lot of fans follow
this podcast, which was really humbling and awesome. I think
it's a lot because of you, because you're so incredibly
smart and talented. I have nothing to do with it.
I'm just a guy. It's all Logan, and I just
want people to know, like you need to like and
subscribe this podcast because Logan is going to I mean,
(03:34):
you get in the weeds more than I think, personally
more than anybody else. I listened to all the draft podcasts.
Maybe the PFF guys are right there because they they
get really into it with the stats. But having a
former ten year veteran of the NFL talk about what
it's like to be in the NFL, how you can
see maybe those traits, whether they're physical, they're mental, they're technical.
(03:57):
I think you have a step above almost in anybody
else out there, and you if you want draft content,
you need to put Logan balls in on whatever podcast
he's won. I recommend this one, but you need to
put him in your weekly cue.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Oh that's very nice for you.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And again, like it's cool to have a job where
I get to do with this stuff and talk talk
football and talk draft and talk about my passions and
so yeah, I think we should probably dig in a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
The first thing we want to talk about is what
can we expect from the Washington Commanders. And I think
this is a really good one because last year we
kind of saw this road map, this model of kind
of saying, hey, you know, we're going to draft good
football players, but who are captains? Team leaders? Good players
in college have these leadership qualities, are self starters, And
(04:45):
I think all of those things are extremely important and
I expect to see a lot of those things transfer
over again. However, it's interesting to watch teams that have
been part of long term building processes they still have
those underlying tenants, you know, like the self starters, the
the team captains. I think those are threads you'll see throughout.
But I kind of wonder this year if they'll take
a take some shots maybe in late rounds on guys
(05:08):
with traits, like every once in a while you see.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
The Philadelphia Eagles do this.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Last year, for example, they drafted Johnny Wilson, who is
this you know, six seven, two hundred and forty pound
wide receiver, you know, maybe not the best receiver, but
has these tremendous traits. They still have their kind of model,
but occasionally they'll take a flyer on someone who's exceptionally
talented in a later round just to kind of give
it a shot and see if it works out. I
wonder if you see some of that this year coming
(05:33):
into the Yark because again, you've kind of established the
foundation with all with this first class, with this first
free agency group, and I wonder if that's something we'll
see moving forward.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Do you how quickly do you think that teams are
able to do that to like take swing from the
heels in a sense, like a baseball term, just really
go for the grand slam when like you use the analogy,
last year, we're just trying to hit singles, ye, right,
because that's what AH not a rebuild, but a recalibrate
(06:03):
organization does. Just let's just get on base. We're a
little bit and then we can start taking these big
swings because we have a core in nucleus here that
we believe in.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, And I think it's it's kind of it's managing that.
So I think last year, everyone, every one of the
decisions felt like we're getting on base, We're getting a
connection with the athlete, we're getting connection with the organization.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We're having people who are, you know, good football players.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And I think the thing that sticks out to me
is when I talk to people at the combine, when
I talk to people are the Senior Bowl Scout specifically,
they're like, you want five sure things.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Quote unquote, guys you feel really good about.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
They fit the measurables, they their production is really good,
they're good citizens, they're good people. And then you can
take three guys that are maybe a little bit more risky.
And that was the person I talked to was from
like an established organization. I'm not going to reference the organization,
but they were from a established group that the staff
had been there for a long time, the coach had
been there for a long time. And I think, so
you're always going to want that foundational, like like get
(07:01):
on base type of guy, but every once in a while,
you can take one where you're like, I don't see
exactly what this is, but I see the athlete, I
see the upside, I see the work ethic, and I
see he's misused or miscast in college. I'm going to
take a swing at this, and I think he's going
to be something really special. I think a great example
of that is like yeah ya Dabi for example, for
Tampa Bay, Like I remember doing his evaluation. He was
(07:22):
playing this three four defensive end. He couldn't rush the
pass or he's playing basically defensive tackle, and then somebody
got it in my ear that he was going to
maybe project a defensive end and you start thinking about
it like that, You're like, oh my gosh, if that
hits with his size, his speed, his power that he
plays with, that could be a big, a huge, explosive
draft pick for them. And so there's a little bit
(07:44):
of projection there, kind of probably more than you'd be
comfortable with and like a normal like get on base
type of pick. And if you look at it, this
last year, he was like a top four pass rusher
in the NFL in terms of pressure rate. So that's
one where example, you take a guy in the third
round there's a little bit more risk associated with it
in terms of his developmental arc, but it works out
in a big way for that organization.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
So something that you're talking about there that I think
is interesting and you don't have to be a fan
of the Commanders listening to this podcast and get something
out of it, because I think a lot of good
organizations do this, And you reference it in the sense
of like, we're not just taking sometimes a guy that's
like everybody says, is good at football in college, right
like we're we're looking we're looking at a specific skill set,
(08:22):
how can it translate or a mentality and what I uh.
That's one of the things that the Commanders did a
lot of last year in the last draft that hit
for them is they were looking for a mentality. And
when you do that, sometimes you're not drafting for need.
You draft this is where the best player available comes in,
because an organization will sit there and they'll say, Okay,
(08:43):
maybe this guy has a little more talent, like college
stats were there he stood out, but maybe he doesn't
have these intangibles quote unquote that fit within what we
want of an organization, and so we'd rather take a
guy with this mentality and one or two traits that
we think will translate and mold them into something different
(09:05):
than they were in college.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, I think that's exactly right, because again, you want
you want the foundation, and that's something really hard is
like there's players, like there's certain schools that have the reputation,
Alabama being one of them of having kids that are
they're they're kind of constantly chaperone, they're kind of forced
to go to the workouts, they're forced to go to practice,
there's someone that goes to class with them, and they're
not great self starters because of the in the environment
(09:29):
that Nick Saban has developed and cultivated there. And Nick
Saban's talked about that too, right, But there are guys
like to your point, that are like, Hey, I'm going
to get an extra lift in, I'm going to be
early to practice, I'm going to stay late so i
can get my work done. And those are guys you
really want to make sure you're betting on right because
when you draft the player like that, with those kind
of intangibles, the leadership qualities, the work ethic, they're going
(09:51):
to continue to get better and ultimately, like the thing
that's so hard about the draft and why everyone says
it's a crapshoot and I'm not breaking any like revolutionary
ground here. For example, is that even though you get
an athlete who's very, very skilled, the game from college
to the NFL is different. And we talked about that
on last year's show, And so how do I get
a guy that's going to develop continue to grow in
(10:13):
this environment? And it's those intangibles that really make that go.
And I think you see that with guys like Mike Sanderstill,
Joshan Newton, like watched their developmental arc Jaden Daniels over
the course of the year. They'd never stayed the same,
they got better each and every week. We saw Mike
sand Rossel get beat on this type of route, the
next week he covers it up. Jade Daniels gets beat
by this type of coverage. And that's again, the coaches
(10:34):
are doing a great job supporting that athlete, but they
have to have something kind of internally that motivates them
to get better. And I think that's that's where like
we're doing talent evaluational like on large part on our end,
but they're doing scouting. And the scouting is the thing
that's the different thing there because it's what type of
person is he? What type of pro is he going
(10:55):
to be? And that's where you really and one of
the things that was so impressed last ye about Adam
Peter is he did that I felt like so incredibly
well finding a guy like Brandon Coleman who is kind
of this guard tweetyer player, but looked at the measurables,
looked at the athlete, talked to his coaches, and you're like,
oh man, this guy could maybe be a starting left
tackle the NFL. And so those are like that's where
(11:17):
the magic sauce is made, is finding those kind of
magic intangibles.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah. Absolutely, And it's a combination. Ultimately, when you put
your quote unquote big board together at the end, who
goes up at the top, Well, you want them to
hit the intangibles. You want them to hit the evalue
the ev ows that you do of just watching them,
like the technical how they move, how their ball control,
whatever that is. And then you want them to hit
(11:42):
the things of like the combine stuff right the forty time,
the bench press, like all these things is like you
combine them all up, mix them all together. Do you
have the perfect creative Matt and create a player in.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
There, absolutely, And I think that's something that is always
so fun and it's so fun when you're watching, Like
I consume a lot of draft content when I'm getting
ready to do this show, and it's so funny to
see how a good Senior Bowl or good Combine gets
changes the narrative about.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
A player because of these.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Like pre existing metrics that kind of support positional success.
So that's something that's always fun to kind of keep
an eye on, and something we're going to keep an
eye on for sure over the course of the show.
You know, we're gonna go to the Combine, gonna be
the Senior Bowl, so we'll we have a front row
seat to all that stuff, which is always a lot
of fun and and give you the talent evaluation and
how they fit in these certain boxes. But again, if
(12:33):
you're if you're really into the draft stuff, the best
draft nerds I know are always able to find out
little details about the player, right, Oh, the player X
is Oh he goes and does soup kitchens on the weekend,
and he does all this with his free time and
a good guy and study's extra and you know has
dinners at his house, brings the whole old line over
whatever it is, and all that stuff is the is,
the is, the is the finishing on the sauce that
(12:55):
really says this guy's going to make the jump to
the next level.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, and they put that in like the reality of
here in Washington. To me, what I remember of those
two things that as I did evaluation process as we went,
we didn't know was that Jaden there was talk he
shows up he's a first one at LSU, right, he's
the first one there. And then the VR training that
(13:18):
they said he would do all the time using a
VR headset and to learn defenses and work through that,
like just taking his preparation to another level. And like
we don't when you're at the combine, when you're at
the Senior Bowl, you don't see those things. You can
only hear those things from the janitor at Melis or
whatever when you talk to them. And so what I
(13:39):
want to ask you, though, is let's move into the
evaluation part of this, because this is the time where
people are really starting to get into evaluating prospects, especially
fans of other teams. Not to watch the commanders. Right now,
we're focused on the playoffs. But other teams, their fans
are looking at the draft. They've already moved ahead. So
let's talk about ways that they can evaluate players. And
(14:02):
we're going to do that by me asking you how
do you evaluate players? Because you're the expert here, so
give me your high level thoughts. When you're watching a player,
when you're watching a prospect, what are you looking at? First?
The very first thing, The.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Very first thing.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I have a column in my spreadsheet, which you know
that just simply says like yes or no, and it's
a very binary thing. But it's like, can this person
from a movement technical standpoint play at the NFL level?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And that becomes somewhat.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Suggestive, you know, as you go through the process, and
it's suggestive based on my opinion. But basically, like when
you're watching a guy. So I was watching the left
tackle from Michigan, for example, and he's on nobody's radar
right now, no one's talking about him. But I'm, you know,
watching the running backs from Michigan, and I'm like, oh,
who's this left tackle? So I'm kind of going through
his clips and I'm like, he's big, he's got a
good anchor, he's got strong hands, he's got good feet,
(14:53):
and so to me, even though no one's talking about him,
he's a senior, he's a grad senior.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
It's like he's a yes, right.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And then there's other guys on the list, Like there's
a tackle from Rutgers, for example, who's big fella, and
he's got a lot of hype around him, but when
you watch him, he.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Just doesn't move quite right.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
He can't set the bowl, he can't set his anchor
very well. And you're like, that's a no, because that's
a technical issue and an anatomical issue. Because of his
length length and his torso length. They say he's never
going to be able to play at the next level.
And you take another example of the right tackle for
Minnesota for example, and he is technically perfect, it's.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Excellent to watch.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
He anders, sounds, had an anchor and says that to
drive his feet, sink on contact, all these different things.
But then you see a move in space and you're like,
I don't know if he's athletic enough to be anything
more than kind of a rotational backup. So that column
is my first jumping off point.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
And you're saying, like you're talking about some technical things,
but you're saying you just you're not dissecting it technically,
you're able to call it out because you've done this, yeah,
for so long. But something just looks on.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's just off, like the movement skills aren't right. They
can't set a bull or like a receiver, they just
look like that's a big thing that shows up. Maybe
the number one thing in this column is just a
lack of athleticism or a general stiffness that you just
got to be aware of that. And when you're looking
when you're talking about athleticism, stiffness, all these they're kind
(16:16):
of subjective, but you know, there's certain receivers where you
watch them get out of break and they kind of
get stuck at the top and it's because they're too
stiff in the hips. Their ankles don't bend the right way,
and they get a pass broken up and you're like,
that could be a fatal flaw at the next level.
Or you get a big wide out they're six ' four,
they're two twenty, and they can't quite run, so then
you say no as a receiver, but maybe yes, it's
(16:37):
a tight end or something like that. And I think
that's where that column is and that's just the super
high level stuff, right, And it does help when you're
kind of distilling all this information. Like our goal, like
last year we watched I want to say, two hundred
and twenty five guys. This year, the goal is to
watch three hundred guys. And so when you're going through
three hundred athletes, you need to get your list down.
I think you hear about some teams going into the
(16:57):
draft with a draft list of fifty athletes. It's fifty
guys that they are targeting in the draft. That's essentially
what I'm doing with that metric is like, yes, this
guy can do it, No, this guy can't do it.
And as the process goes, that does change for me.
But usually that I find that that first kind of
knee jerk reaction is very It kind of sets the tone, right,
(17:18):
and it's kind of like and oftentimes I go back
and I check that yes, no, and I'm like, man,
I was right about this six months ago, and I
kind of talked myself out of it because of something
else than I read.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, absolutely, So what's the next step then?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, So that's like kind of like a general movement assessment.
And then there's also like an element of this next
column in there, and this one's maybe more important is
the compete toughness category, right, because what that does for
me is it kind of informs.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Like, hey, this athlete. It shows a.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Willingness, a want to, a grit and usually not always,
but usually that player is successful at the NFL level
because it shows a passion and a hunger and a
want to. And so what I'm talking about a great example,
I've used this every year done the show, is like
a receiver on a crack block.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
A receiver gets in there, he's going to crack the safety.
It's a big physical play. A lot of receivers they
kind of take creative angles, they kind of dodge out
of it. But when you see a dude put his
mouthpiece in, getting a tight split and crack that guy,
crack that safety on a block, tough, really physical play.
I'm like that receiver. I don't know anything about him,
but I know that he loves football because that's something
(18:24):
that the position does not want to do. They don't
like that, and he's doing it at a really high level.
And you look at receivers that have been successful that
I'm not kidding Amina Saint Brown. That was something that
I had in his avout was a yes on the
toughness Jamison Williams because we're talking about Detroit, Like I
remember watching He's a skinny, kind of frail guy. He
played gunner on kick on punt, he was cracking on
(18:45):
run plays, he's blocking on screens. Those things are like, man,
that's the type of athlete, the competitor that I want.
And I think that toughness, that competitiveness again, it informs
some of the scouting stuff that we don't get and
that's why it's such an important metric.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
So what are some things where like a general fan
can just trust their eyes on they can look at
it and they can say, Okay, I can see that
this guy is doing this.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I think it depends on how much football you've watched,
Like we were talking about this the other day, and
for me, if you've watched a lot of ball, there
are certain times you're like that doesn't look right. There's
something wrong, and what is what's wrong about it?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I can't really put my finger on it, but trust
that initial gut reaction. So for example, like when you're
watching Will Campbell, like everything technically he's the tackle from LSU.
Everything technically looks great, like he's in good position, he
moves well. You're like, okay, this is all good. But
then you watch a couple of pass pro reps. You're like,
why is this hard for him? And the thing that
jumps out to me is like, hey, there's maybe a
(19:40):
lack of length. There's maybe an issue with his ability
to play tackle at the next level. Like trust those
little moments where you're like, the foot speed's off, the
hand placement's off, and that usually informs that yes, no, right,
Just make a little note to yourself and say, hey,
this is what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
We're okay with that.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And some of those things you may not like average
you won't be able to, like, won't be able to
technically see what it is, but just trust your eyes
and the evaluation.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, trust your eyes.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
And again, you depends on how much much football you watch, Like,
I know you've watched a ton of football, and so
there's certain things that you.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
See where a receiver catches.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
A ball and it doesn't look quite right, like why
is he fighting the ball so much? Like what's going
on there? Make a note of that. Trust that because
again like are they a natural hands catcher, And you
can get into technico he's tracking the ball wrong or
a thumb should be up or his body positions like whatever.
But if it looks weird, usually that's a pretty good
indicator that they're not a great catcher of the fall. Now,
there are exceptions like Terry McCormick Coorin kind of catches
(20:35):
the ball awkwardly. But then that's where you go to
like an underlying metric and say, oh, actually it's not
problematic for him because it never drops the ball, you
know what I'm saying. So, like there are things like
that where you got to kind of there are exceptions,
but trust that initial first take I find.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
So then why does the combine matter so much?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Right?
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Because they're not playing football right and they're throwing routes
on air and so all these things. When the combine
is a big, big, big moment in the draft process
forty times arm length, right bench press. If you're able
to evaluate a player like you said and just trust
your eyes and be able to say, okay, something doesn't
look great, how can they then go to the combine
(21:14):
and go, Okay, we're moving you up. Even if there's
something a little bit off what's happening there.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So for example, like I think a really good example
of this from a couple of years ago was Peter Skorronsky.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
When you watch Peter Skoronski, like, there's something about his body,
how it bends, how he sinks, and you're like, he's
a good football player. But everyone's saying, are you going
to play tackle? Are you going to play guard? Are
you going to play center?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Like? What are you going to do in this space?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And then when you get to the combat and you
got thirty two inch arms, like, it makes me really
skeptical that you're going to be able to play a
tackle to the next level, Like, it just makes me
skeptical because the threshold there is usually thirty four inches
for arm length, right, And why is that? Because defensive
ends are bigger, they're taller, they're longer. Their minimum thresholds
about thirty four inches, And you want your offensive tackle
to be able to reach out and to the defensive
(22:00):
player before they can touch you. And it just helps
you sink a bawl. In pass protection, it helps you
kind of negotiate hand fighting, it helps you recover more.
Imagine if I had, you know, like Dwan Jones, for example,
from my house state a couple years. I got thirty
six in charms. I've seen him in the NFL miss
a punch, refit his hand because he's got an extra
six inches of work here that the guy has.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
To throw his move.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
He can pull his hand back and then punch again
because of that extra distance he's provided. You see it
in MMA fights all the time.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, it's like a boxer.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
It's one hundred percent right. So it is a it's
a huge variable.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
For offensive lineman. And then Peter Scrans's going to be
a good pro, right, but he's going to be good
prot guard. So if I if I'm a team making
an investment in a tackle, which will tend to be
harder to find, I'm going to look for somebody who
kind of has more of those measurement qualities I'm looking for.
I think, you know, we talked about Brandon Coleman like
that was a great fine last year because I kind
of had him as a guard. But then when you
look at the measurements, you're like, man, athletically, this is
(22:55):
a profile that fits a tackle. He's got thirty five
inch arms, he's six y four, he's three twenty, he
runs a four to nine, he's got a ten yard
split that's top ten percent in the NFL. And so
if I'm going to take a shot on a guy
in a third round, I'm going to take that shot
because he can go to tackle. If he fails at tackle,
because he's got all these measurements, he easily transitions to guard.
(23:15):
And I think that's something where that's why those measurements
are so important. That receivers are another great example. There's
a receiver you might love, right, He's like a nice
shifty slot receiver. He's winning with explosiveness and speed, and
then he goes to the combine and he jumps twenty
eight inches and you're like, that's not very explosive. He
has a nine foot broad that's not very explosive. He
runs a four seven forty. All of a sudden, all
(23:36):
those explosive measurements you saw on film, you have to
call in a question. You have to be like, is
it worth taking a risk on a guy who's not
actually that explosive and fast, who's winning with explosion in speed?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
And I think that because there's so many college players, Yeah,
so many teams, so many conferences that maybe this guy
looks really explosives on Shilm, but it's because it's all
real to everything that's going on around him. Right, Maybe
the competition's not as high. He's not playing against potential
NFL talent. You don't tend to see this with teams
(24:09):
like LSU, Alabama, like all the because all these guys
are going to the NFL, not all of them, but
this is NFL talent that's on the field. So you
get a good idea that like, Okay, well they can
make the transition up. You expect them to do certain
things at the combine, whereas somebody like say Quinnon Mitchell
last year from a smaller school comes out and it's like, okay,
(24:30):
he dominated his competition in college. Come to the Combine
and the Senior Bowl. Go one on one with lad McConkie. Right,
go to the combine. Show us what your measurements are
so we don't think that our eyes are being tricked
on us because we're watching everybody move slower. So when
you're the when you're the fastest guy on a slow team,
(24:52):
we want to know are you the fastest guy on
a fast team?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Correct, And I think it's just it just kind of
gives you, like a it just gives you a better
understanding of the athlete and the player and what they
can and can't do.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And I know, those those thresholds.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Everyone says, oh, like there's exceptions, right, But there's a
reason there are exceptions. It's because most of the people
fall into these bikes. Like, if you were to go
around NFL, arm length for tackles is a really interesting
one because it's almost across the board like thirty three
and a half inches and up, Like, you're never going
to find a tackle with thirty two inches, Like it's
just too hard with the athleticism and speed of the
(25:25):
of the ed dressers in the NFL. Like, so if
you get a guy that you really like an evaluation,
but he's got thirty two inch arms, You're like, what
is what is the likelihood that, even though he's a
great athlete, that he's going to be super successful as
a pass protector in the NFL? Probably not great, you know,
So I got to kind of factor that in. Now,
there's other factors, like let's say he's got tremendous foot
speed or tremendous size or tremendous, you know, balance and anchor,
(25:45):
like those are things where we get more technical on
the evaluation and you say, okay, I'm comfortable with that,
but oftentimes like I'm not. You know, it just depends.
It depends on the guy for sure, and maybe.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
You're comfortable with that in a later round. So, right,
that's where you start assigning the ground grades, because your
first round talents generally fit check all these all these boxes,
generally most of them. Where you're taking, like you said,
you're taking swings at fastballs in the later rounds, you're
betting on something like Okay, yeah he doesn't have this,
(26:16):
but he has the toughness, he has to compete and
he has he said, the foot speed. So we're okay
with and we're taking that shot in the fourth round.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
And we have a plan for him, right, we have
a plan for like his his trajectory in the organization.
We can try and tackle, move to guard, maybe you
can play center, right, all those things, and maybe we
prefer him as a swing interior player. And that's there's
value there too. And so that's the other thing too
that I'm trying to incorporate into my draft grades this year.
Is like, even though I don't see this guy could
ever be like a starting caliber player, Like, there's tremendous
value to like Cornelius Lucas, right, a swing tackle that
(26:47):
can play both sides and you don't really lose a
like there's not a big drop off. So there's also
that like Cornelius Lucas when you look at his evaluation,
long arms, big guy developed a lot in the NFL,
but the foot speed is a little bit lacking. But
for his role perfect right, it fits exactly what you want.
He knows both spots, he covers you up in in
a really nice way. So there's that element too. It's
like what level of player do you expect this person
(27:09):
to be? And for the top flight guys, the first
second round guys in the NFL draft, like they should
have certain qualities of this, certain of these physical traits
that you're like, Okay, good lock, and that's why they're there.
That's one of the reasons why they're there. In conjunction
with the film they've put out.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, so let's get a little bit into the weeds list. Okay,
I'm going to go through position groups and I want
you to give me one or two things that are
a little more technical, a little more detailed, that I
want you to kind of teach me about and be like,
all right, when you watch, for example, let's start with
the O line. Since we're talking about when you watch o'lignman,
I want you to look at this. Here's a technical
thing that you can look look at that not a
(27:46):
lot of people pick up, but it's going to be
a good evaluator to how they're going to be at
the next level.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, so this is going to sound really, really nerdy.
So number one thing for offensive line is foot speeds, slash,
just general athleticism.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
That's number one thing.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And that sounds crazy, But how do you track a
linebacker at the second level? How do you get out
on a screen? How do you pull? How do you
cut off a backside three technique? Those kind of dynamic,
explosive movements for the offensive line. I really value those
because they show an athletic ceiling. So like Josh Shimmons
for Ohio State, I've only watched half of a game
that he's played in, but he is so tremendously athletic
(28:20):
that I'm like, he's like, he might be my best
tackle in the class like even though he's coming off
an injury, because of the athletic movement skills. That is
like maybe the number one thing, because you want your
Perna Suol, you want your Trent Williams, you want your
you know, Tristan Worfs. They have to have to essential
to have those movement skills, right, would.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
You say then that the O line, you're less concerned
with their technical abilities, more concerned with their raw traits
because just God only made so many guys like that.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
That is a that is a huge element.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
But the next element of it is so this first
thing and the second second thing are like one A,
one B. So the second thing for me is core
like mid section strength, so like hips adductor's strength. So
when someone collisions you, what does your body do? Like
there are certain guys you watch them and they just
kind of crumple or their legs get out from under them,
(29:10):
or they get elevated out of that spot. And there's
other guys where their ribcage states attached to their pelvis,
they lock in and they're just an excellent there's an
excellent play strength there. So both of those things come together, right,
So when you're looking at Tristan Wurf's he is that
to a t he moves well, he's locked in his
mid sex and super tag. You try to bull him,
there's never like a disassociation between his hips and his
(29:31):
upper body. It's always locked in. Trent Williams, same thing
in a school, same thing. So those two things are
the offensive line. If I see both of those things,
I'm like, there, you are a special, special athlete at
the position. And I'm like that, even if you're technically
not playing very well, I'm going to take a shot
on you. So like, for example, let's take Evan Neil.
(29:54):
He had a terrible disconnection of his chest and his
hips right. You bull them and he'd kind of lose
it or he'd fall on the ground a lot. Bad
foot speed, bad connection.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
The guy who plays in Carolina now they're left tackle.
I forget his name, but he had bad foot speed right.
And so those are things for elite left tackles that
I and right tackles that I'm like, these are the
two things that I have to see.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Now.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
You can sometimes compensate with arm lane for whatever, but
those are the things that if I don't see those
right away, I'm kind of like, eh, Like, I don't
know where you're gonna fit. Swing guy, rotational guy, maybe
a three year starter at some point in a pinch.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
But that's what I'm looking at.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Let's jump to the other side of the ball and
do defensive tackles and then spin off with edges because
you're a little bit different when you're trying to evaluate.
So when you're looking at a d tackle, let's start
there first. What do you want to see?
Speaker 1 (30:43):
So this is going to sound crazy, but I'm looking
for athletes, and it's a different type of athlete than
the offensive lineman.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Right. I want a guy who's really linearly explosive. Right.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
You watch Mason Graham this year from Michigan. Man, he
can pop you. He's got great hand usage, He's explosive
from the hips. He can and take a base instead
of double team. He can raise and lower his pads
really well, and that's something I think is really valuable.
Like his running mate, I forget number seventy eight, the
defensive tackle that plays next to him, And as we go,
I'll get better with the names as we get into
the draft stuff more. He plays really high, kind of
(31:15):
gets pushed off the spot. He's a good player, but
he doesn't have those elite traits the the explosion the
hip the hip and the sink of the hips. So
those are two things with the tackles. And then I'm
going to add this other one in hand usage. Right,
do they use their hands well? Because those guys I
find that when they can use their hands can overcome
some of those athletic deficiencies.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
So give me an example of good hand usage. So technique.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, So, like for example, when you're looking for something
like and you're and let's say a guy's getting a
double team, right, his ability to take and put his
hands directly on the best play of the guard, extend
his elbows and sink his hips and stalemate the guard
like that with length to then shed that block and
make the tackle.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That's exactly what you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
That's like, if you you see that a couple of times,
you see that consistency, you see that reaction, you're going
to be pretty good. Like Jason last year had a
lot of those right hands flash boom, we're going to
pursue of the football, sink ki, all those types of
things were on the table. And again that vertical penetration
that explosiveness from that defensive tackle. Now, edge is a
(32:20):
totally different ball of wax to me. You're looking for athlete, athlete, athlete,
athlete and production, like that's what you're looking for. And
there's certain positions that have a really high correlation here.
If you test well at the combine and you had
ten saxon college, you're probably going to be pretty good
in the NFL, Like, you're probably gonna be pretty.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
What happens and we had this last year, I'm not
going to say exactly who you have someone that tests
off the charts, but no production.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
That's something that always makes me a little bit nervous, right,
I think you look at there's been a couple of
guys that have hit from this, like Gray up in
Green Bay is that his name? The number fifty two
in Green Bay was like this. There's been people that
have done this over the course of the NFL, and
they do find a way after like three or four
years to hit, right, So there is a little bit
of a own way, there's a little bit of precedent.
(33:08):
Is it worth taking a shot on? Yes, but you
have to understand that it's a developmental window. When you
see the guy who's like a lot too. Last year, right,
he tested fine and he was crazy productive in college,
Like he will be fine. I think he had seven
sacks this year. Like that was kind of right where
I thought he'd be. I thought, maybe you get to ten.
But there's a little bit of variance in sacks production.
(33:29):
But that's exactly what you thought from him, right, Jared
Versus is a great example. Right, I was a little
bit worried about the athlete, but the production was so
good his entire time at Florida State. And you're like,
I should have weighed that more, probably based on his
athletic profile, which is great at the combine. So with
that position, to me, it's one of the easier positions
because it's like athlete production, check check, you're gonna be fine, right, all.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Right, let's stay on the defensive side here and go
to linebacker. Probably you said last year at several times
the hardest one for you to evaluate in some In
some ways.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
It's really hard because it's multi factorial. Right, you need
to have a physicality, you need to have an intelligence.
It's kind of like quarterback of the defense. I know
that's like probably a stereotypic answer, but It's like quarterback
for the defense, right. You have to know run fits,
you have to get guys lined up, you have to
show an intelligence, and you have to do a lot
of stuff. And so for me, the number one that's
gonna sound crazy, The number one thing for linebackers.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Is coverage skills.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
You have to be able to cover because the way
the NFL game is going, because that implies movement skills. Right,
So if I can match up with the tight end
and cover them and man and man situations, I'm gonna
be on the field more. And you look at the
guys who've been the best the last couple of years.
Your Fred Warner's, your Luke Keikley's, your Levante David's, they
all have that coverage instinct. Now if you see that instinct,
(34:48):
that coverage ability apply to a physicality also, oh man,
you got yourself one, right.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
And again, you kind of.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Hope that because of those two traits, they have that
kind of killer instinct that wishing to play the position
of middle linebacker at the NFL level.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
But that's a hard one for me because I don't know.
I haven't sat in a meeting with them, I haven't
talked with them. I don't know they're but like I
love when I see a linebacker that I like that
has covered a tight end. He's fit a full back
or he's fit a guard, and all of a sudden,
you see you getting empty. The offense does and he
makes an empty check because I'm like, oh, this guy's
locked in. Not every college linebacker does that, but when
(35:24):
you see that, that's kind of like, Oh, that's a
big that's a big plus for me.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
What about defensive bats, Oh.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
My gosh, defensive backs, it's hard, man, this is this.
Linebackers are the hardest, but defensive backs, in my opinion,
have the most variance because they're so scheme dependent. So
that was one of the things about Quinny and Mitchell
that was tough because like at Toledo, like he didn't
do a lot of like man coverage, a lot of
zone and so when I see a cornerback, I want
to see him basically play man coverage, like that's what
(35:51):
I want to do. And it helps if you had
zone instincts, but I need to see you kind of run, react,
anticipate route concepts because it shows that you can do
some stuff in z oonne I think a good example
that was Sauce Gardner, like they had a man and
man situations versus Alabama, Right, and you're like, Okay, this
is good, this is good.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
And the other thing.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
About corners, I need to see them tackle. I need
to see them be playman coverage and be physical as
all outdoors. And people are like, why are they're corners?
That is the position in the NFL where you have
to tackle. Every run is being forced to you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, you've said that multiple times. You've been in offenses
where they say, yeah, our job is to get the
running back on your dB.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
And you know Fred and Fred Smoot and I differ
in this. He's like, I want to see him cover
their coverage players, but I've seen so many guys fail
because they don't have that dog, that dog and him
to come up and make a tackle. And so for me,
it's man coverage and can you make a tackle in
the run game?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Yeah, absolutely, it's It's definitely the hardest one. But this
is also why the process, like the Combine's great, right,
This is why the Senior Bowl and the Shrine Bowl
are good, right, because you get a player like quin Yon,
who last year was a standout at the senior role
because everybody wanted to see him against better competition and
out of that zone. And when he was, he shined.
(37:10):
Right then it's like, okay, that checks the box that
I couldn't see on film, couldn't see in that evaluation.
Now I got it here all right. So DB's have
to cover the wide receivers, and it seems like there
is always a ton of good wide receivers coming out
every year. So what are you looking for to differentiate
a top round the first round, second round wide receiver
(37:32):
and the guys who want to take flyers on maybe
later rounds.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Flyers later are size speed guys for me, like take
those guys later. If you're a like Slad McConkie, to me,
is maybe perfect. Like last year, I remember turning on
the film with Georgia and being like you will be
a great NFL pro Like that was the first Like
I watched five of his targets and was like, you
got it? And so what is that it? It is
understanding of defensive leverages. How to get to a base
(38:01):
like double stick or release break that DB's leverage like
get to where you're not supposed to be in the
defensive coverage, work your stems right, vertical stem, angled stem
to you to set up your route to create space
for yourself, and not everyone understands it. Not everyone gets it.
And when you see that, it's like it's like big
flashing lights. You're like, yes, this is it, this is
(38:24):
the one, and it's the reason you see you know,
like DK metcalf kind of struggle like at times because
he doesn't have that route running nuance. He's just horsepower
and there's a time and place for that, right, But
there's a reason there's like one Dk Metcalf right, and
there's a bunch of guys like you know, Malik Neighbors
or Lad McConkey or these guys that have these tremendous
route running nuance to their game. And so to me,
(38:47):
if you can run fast and you have that ability
like I am your best friend as a as a guy,
and obviously catching the football, if you fight the football,
I'm going to really watch a lot of film on
you because I want to make sure you can catch
the ball.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah. I was actually going to say that a big one.
Don't underestimate it, guy catches the ball. The other one
I would say is like watch the routes where they
don't get the ball or not. Is he running hard?
Is he trying to work to get the other guy open?
Is it like if it's a run play, is he
running up to try and block? Like that's going to
tell you how much they're going to That's the one too.
(39:23):
That's good competitiveness. How you talked to earlier, that's really
going to play into it. Yeah, I think, all right,
let's speed through these here. Running backs.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, running backs are interesting to me because it's hard,
like because they're usually the best football player like in
high school and so they're the best one of the
better football players in college meeting. They can block, they
can tackle. So for me, it's like I want to
see the highway speed. Stuff's speed specifically for running back
and then toughness and so what is toughness expressed?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
As it's like do I pick up a blitz? Like?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
How do I finish runs? Like how do I run
short yardage? Do I step out of bounds when I
don't have to? Or do I finish and punish the defender?
Another one for me in running backs, it's big is
just vision, Like I was watching a running back, the
running back from.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Michigan or Edwards.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
And if the hole wasn't there, the run wasn't there
for him, then you watch a couple other guys and
you're like, oh, there's a little crease here. I can
put his foot in the ground and kind of sneak
through here. Oh it's not blocked. Well, he's going to
get skinny, cram his head in there. We've got a
three yard gain on something that should have been a
tackle for one, Right, how do you maximize the blocking surface?
And so highway speed is obviously a big deal, right,
(40:28):
Dereck Henry's your sake one Barcleay's Christian McCaffrey to a
certain extent, right, But the vision and the toughness for
a back, vision and toughness.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah, And man, I was going to say the same thing,
logan to bounce off of that. Like one of the
things I try and look at is does the running
back bounce too early?
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Right?
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Is there a hole opening up? Just be a little
patient or just hit this hole hard and you got
a four yard run instead of I'm trying to bounce
out and now everybody's conversion on me. It's a two
yard loss because I just don't want to hit that
hole right now, right, Like I just don't want to
dive in there. So yeah, that goes right along with it,
all right, this is your favorite. You were a tight
(41:05):
end for ten years in the NFL. What are you
looking for from a tight end in college? And there
are some good ones.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
This one's frustrating for me because it's changed a lot
since I started doing this, and so now it's like
it's athletes, it's measurables, like this is a defensive line
type of position, and so like I had a conversation
with somebody at the Combat a couple of years ago
about the last twenty starting tight ends. So this was
over a course, like a fifteen year period. All were
(41:31):
like greens basically, which means they hit height, weight, speed,
arm length metric all greens, right, And there's only been
two starting players who have not met that metric who
started over the last fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
I was one of them. I started a couple of
games here right.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Look at you.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, So there for that position. If you do not
hit the measurables, big red flag right away, right, because
what do you do? What's your role? And I think
there's a couple things here, right, You're looking for two
different types of players. You're looking for that you know Lovelnd,
that travel Kelsey guy and catch football be a mismatch weapon.
That's one skill set. You're also looking for a guy
that can block in line like a John Bates, and
(42:06):
both those things have value both teams need. Most teams
in the NFL need both of those players. Obviously, the
offensive line type guy, the John Baits type guy, is
going to be bigger, heavier. You need to see a
tremendous amount of technical proficiency and a tremendous amount of
grit just toughness.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Do you see a combination of those often in tight
end anymore where they're gonna block and they're gonna get
open like how a Kelsey would or are teams out
just going you know what I want? I want one
that's more of a blocker, one that's more of a
route runner.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, I would say, yeah, you're see a little and
obviously you got to do both, like I think zach Ertz,
to his credit this year, has done a great job
of kind of embracing the blocking role a little bit.
So with like Loveland, for example, he's like six ' five,
I want to say he's like two forty three. It's
not a big guy, but he's tough, like he'll throw
his face in there, he'll block a defensive end. You
don't want that matchup all the time, but he's tough
enough to get that done.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
He's physical enough to get that guy done. And then
you got a guy like Warren from pen Sake. What's
his first name is a ty Warn Tyler Warren Tyler Warren. Yeah,
who can kind of do both. He's a little stiff
in the hips and with tight ends. This is something
that I have talked to probably fifteen tight end coach
in the NFL. If you see stiffness in the hips
or ankles, huge red flag, huge red flag for red
coach for tight end coaches because they think it's indicative
(43:20):
of injury. Now, that could be like an old wives tale,
but for me, it's athlete measurables, right, college production? And
then their role in your team, right, are you a blocker?
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Are you a pass catcher? Because what are we going
to do?
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Yeah? All right? The last one, most important one.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I was cussed because I saw this on here.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Quarterback look for quarterback to be fair, commanders were not
in the market quarterback. But but I will say this,
every team needs depth at quarterback, and so I wouldn't
be surprised if any team drafts a quarterback at some
point or another. Now, this doesn't mean they'll be a
(43:59):
starter for that, but almost every team, and quarterbacks are
so expensive now, they're like, if you can get a
backup quarterback when a rookie deal, that's advantageous for you.
So my point, I guess is like, we're commanders. We
clearly have Jade and Daniels. We are not in the
market for a quarterback. But it's still important to look
at these guys, especially in the later round. So what
are you looking for?
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah, this one is tough because my I've grown up
a lot in this category. So I kind of want
to say like twelve things, but I'm trying to keep
it to two. One is a consistency, right, A consistency
with your footwork, a consistency with your arm mechanics. And
everyone says, well, now, like Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson,
they're making all these off schedule throws, but when you
watch them, there's a consistency with their lower body mechanics
(44:41):
and their upper body mechanics, even when they're vacating the pocket,
there's a consistency there, right, And that consistency means that
I can it leads, It tends to lead to accuracy, right,
and good ball placement down the field. That and then
what kind of student are you? You have to be
a great star student of the game. You have to
constantly be learning. You have to constantly be the first one.
(45:03):
And you have that when I hear of that about
a quarterback, and most schools will kind of just volunteer
that like kind of you know, because they want them
to get drafted.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
But that thing is huge. And then the other element.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Is how do you process stuff? How do you process
the defense? Because it's not always a stagnant picture, and
especially in the NFL, because the hashes are tighter, defenses
can decide stuff longer. The windows are smaller, right, because
you don't have this big vacant hash to the left
of the field. I'm always like, how do you process information,
consistency of mechanics, consistency of play, just in general, and
(45:37):
then student and this, and we could I could have
a list of twenty things that I'm looking at here,
but those are probably a push those to the top.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Yeah. I mean with quarterback, I feel like you're constantly
looking for like, uh, like a hypocrite in a way.
And what I mean by that is you want someone
that's a huge nerd, giant nerd, loves to study, loves
everything about football, can't get enough of football, but also
has that dog in him. He's going to go out,
(46:07):
he's going to take kids, he's going to step in
the throads, he's going to compete, and he's going to
put the team on his back, like emotionally sometimes and
like you need both of those.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Did you come up with that right now? Yeah? Right now?
That was great? Yeah, because that's exactly what you're looking for.
You're looking for.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
You're looking for a paradox, right, You're looking for that's
better than a charismatic, dynamic leader who's also a nerd,
who's also can relate to everybody on the team, but
it is also a little bit of above everybody unicorns.
It's a weird, it's a weird position to evaluate, and
it's that one yes and no. For me, there's a
lot of no's, a lot of no's, and when you
(46:40):
find a yes, you're like, oh, oh oh, this is exciting.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
This is what is this? What's happ Yeah?
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Fred says a lot of things, but one of the
things that I do like that he says often is
there are nine billion people in the world and we
can't find thirty two of them to play quarterback at
a high level. And he's right about it. It's the
unicorn that you have to fin and I guess what, We
got one here and watch.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Dude, how fun has this been? Time?
Speaker 3 (47:03):
It's been amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
It's been fun talking on this show, take it to
the draft last year and going through so much film
of him and all these other guys, and to see
all of those questions get answered and to see all
of those things we loved about him be even better here.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
It was just it's just been.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
A tremendous journey and really cool to watch from last
year's episodes all that stuff, and to be here making
a push in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
It's so exciting. And yeah, so we're not going to
come back until we win the Super Bowl. I think
so like this is our last episode until then. But
if we happen to not make it, which I think
probability is low that we don't make the super Bowl.
Now with Jade and Daniels on it and the Super Bowl.
KP's currently wearing. But if we were to come back
(47:47):
before the super Bowl, the Senior Bowl is a week
before that. We will be in Mobile, Alabama. We will
do a podcast every day after every practice of the
Senior Bowl. Same thing. Once we get to the Combine,
we'll break down the combine and all that, and then
we'll have Draft Night for you to and we'll do something,
if not weekly, regular in between those things too, leading
(48:08):
you all the way up to their draft. So if
you're a fan of the Commanders, man, just enjoy it.
Oh my gosh, soak it in. I've been a fan
for so long of this team and it feels amazing.
And if you're not, you'll still get great content in
this podcast, I promise you. As we move forward, we'll
even talk about the top quarterbacks at some point, for like,
obviously we have nothing to do with them, but they're hot,
(48:30):
as we'll talk about them. Maybe they go to a
divisional ride, right, so you'll get Logan's evaluations when these
guys moving forward, Like I said, we're gonna get guys
like Field Yates, Trevor Sika, m'connor, Rodgers, Matthew Berry we
had on last year as well. Like, we will get
these guys again. I've already reached out, some of them
have already said yes, and I know the other guys will.
(48:51):
We see them all the time at these events. So yeah,
please like, subscribe, turn on net notuification. We'll be back
after the host an a Lombardi Trophy in DC.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Pretty sick. Mm hmmm mm hmm
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