NBC Draft Analyst Connor Rogers has a LIVELY conversation with Logan Paulsen over the prospects on Day 2 of the 2025 NFL Combine. It's all about defensive backs and tight ends and what is the best fit for the Commanders in the later rounds.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On today's episode of Tickets to the Draft, we have
Connor Rogers, NBC Draft analysts. Man, he's so good at
his job, and we get in a spirited conversation about
tight ends and defensive backs and preview Day two of
the combine, and then me and just the guy, Jason,
we give you all the details, who ran fast, who
ran slow, who made themselves money to day.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It all starts right now, And welcome to the Ticket
of the Draft podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'm Logan Paulson here with Jessic Guy, Jason and Jason.
Today we have a very special event.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Yeah, we have Connor Rodgers from NBC Sports and PFFS
NFL Stock Exchange.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
And he is such a special guest to have because
he is so locked in with the draft content. He
gets to do interviews with a lot of the prospects
here on Radio Row on the other side of that
curtain over there where everybody's hanging out, and he does
a great job, and so it gives a really awesome
insight into the players. And I think one of the
things that I enjoyed about having him on was it's
a very high level view. Yeah, there's also enough specificity
(01:01):
for the commandager you say, man like, he is so good.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
At what he does. He's so good at his job.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So we're able to talk DB's kind of give a
little preview, not necessarily of what they do today on
the field, but just of the class in general, and
also of tight end, which I thought was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Oh yeah, the tight end conversation is great because you
love tight ends and he's locked in. So the two
of you guys had like I would say, a spirited
conversation about tight ends. Like not much, not like disagreement,
but you guys were like both. It was like a
good tag team in the WWE.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I mean he's and again I'm gonna say this again,
he is a beast.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
His ability to have recall, he's met He's met Tyler Warren,
he's met Colston Loveland, He's met these guys that are
going to be first round draft picks, and so to
have that relationship and understand who they are kind of
in a way that we can't because we've never met them,
it was pretty special.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yeah, So the two of you are going to have
like a little preview of what tonight's combine was, and
then after the Rogers we're going to get back together
after the combined ends, and we're going to talk about, hey,
were you guys right, and get up a little breakdown
what actually happened to combine, like how we do in
every episode.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So here's Connor Rogers.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Okay, so with us, here is Connor Rogers, NBC Sports
Draft analysts. Also you can hear them with Trevor sick
them out on the PFF NFL Stock Exchange. We're super
excited to have you here. Really smart guy. Every time
you you came on last year, learned a lot from you.
I listened to your pod all the time. With Trevor,
I learn a lot. It's fantastic. And actually Logan and
(02:24):
I were talking the other day. We also do the
or at least I do. Volume on TV needs to
be an even numbers or fives, like that's it. It's
gotta be that.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, and my wife thinks I'm crazy.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I think you're crazy too, though it's always one person
in the relationship that's like that psychopath that like starts
trembling if it's on an odd number.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
One of the things that being OCD is really good.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
One of the things I did when buying a new
TV recently was that TV's now don't have numbers. It's
just a bar. And I'm like, this is beautiful because.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Who made that? Somebody?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, all right, So I'm just gonna let you guys go.
So because cornerbacks and tight ends are going, today's kind
of like a little preview, a little imoge booch where
our feels. So one of the things Logan and I
talk about all the time is that cornerback is for
us hard to evaluate. So I wanted you to guys
to get into, like what are the pain points and
evaluation of turnback? And then how do you like make
(03:24):
up for that or what are things and tips and
tricks that we can look.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
For, right?
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Yeah, I mean obviously at its most basic to me,
like it's really nice if you have length, size and
you can open up and run. That's like the most
basic pinpoints. Because guess what everybody in the NFL is bigger,
as Logan is aware of, and faster. The thing I've
been diving into more over the last couple of years though,
and this helps with pff is I really like to
dive into a guy? How much did a guy play
man coverage single man coverage? And how did he look
(03:50):
doing it because, like listen, there's nothing against own coverage,
and obviously that's a big part of the NFL. But
if you can play in single man coverage against a
college receiver, against some of the better college receivers, or
if you have experience doing that, the translation to me
like the it's a higher hit rate at the NFL level.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Like azari A. Thomas in this classrom Florida State.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
He's twenty, right, and the program wasn't good this year,
but he played over three hundred snaps in man coverage
over the last two years. Like, that's a lot of
experience for a guy arms down to the ground, he's
gonna fly. So you just try to get points where
you feel a little more confident about the guy's transition,
you're doing less guessing.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, I think it's I think that's a great point
because it really comes down to, like, in my opinion,
like the movement skills, and you don't get the movement
skills and zone coverage. Obviously there's an instinct element there
that you really like to watch. But I mean that's
one of the reasons you do want to one at
the senior ball right, right, You want to see one
on ones like in the film, right, like because you
get to see how a guy moves, his physicality, how
he tracks the ball when the ball's in the air,
(04:46):
right in those kind of contested situations. So I love
that and it's great at PFF you can probably sort that.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
You can.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Yeah, So when I really tap into a guy, it's
the first thing I do, because you'll hear a lot
of hype about a guy and it's like, Okay, I
don't need to see him playing off and sitting in.
It's great, Like instincts and eyes and anticipation, all those
things matter.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
You don't not watch it.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
But man, you're right, like how a guy moves and
how he matches movements and if he can open up
his hips and all those things, like that's number one
for me at the top.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
And I think the other thing too that I think
gets overlooked with corners so much is their ability to tackle.
Everyone gets so infatuated with their movement skill, which is important,
Like this is an important part of the evaluation. We
want athletes who want tall, long guys like you're talking about.
But to me, if they don't tackle and if they're
not physical like in the NFL, now, like they're the
run defense, the going after them.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Which is great.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
Like I think it's awesome, and I'll tell you right now,
in this class, it's a question with a lot of
these guys. And I like these corners. I like this
size and speed and the movement skills. But you can
start at the top, like and Travis Hunter said it here. Okay,
I'm not breaking news. Like tackling it needs to improve
a little bit. Will Johnson's a bigger guy. I don't
think that's a problem in his game. But even you
go down the list like Azari.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
But I started to interrupt you, But even though he's
a bigger guy, they all have question marks. Like everyone's
wondering how he's gonna run. That's number one. Everyone's got
a bunch of injury. You know, like that you're on
the list, You're like, you know, Morrison's banged up, the
kid from Carolina wherever East Carolina's banged up.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, they're coming off injuries, and so they've got all
of the kind of boxes chests, all of them. But
they all heard he's like huge question marks, which is
a little, uh, a little unnerving.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, it is. There's no, there's no layup.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
I would say, like, there's no layup, like Travis is
the closest to me. But I mean, once again, we
don't even know what he's going to do full time
at the next level.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
I know he thinks he's going.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
To do both. We'll see. Uh.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
That's another thing I wanted to ask you because, like,
I think he's a really good example of of this
other thing that I wanted to bring up with you.
So obviously we mentioned tackling. I think he's relatively physical.
I think he moves well all those things you're talking about,
But I do think there is a lack of, like
eleage technical proficiency, which I've been burned on in the
past with corners where I've seen a.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Guy who's the athlete.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
He's physical, he's like this wild horse you can tell
you loves ball, but they don't have the like the footwork,
the timing down, and people I think underrate the importance
of that. Travis Hunter again is a fun watch. He's
a freak. But that's something I keep coming back to.
It's like, how detrimental is that? And can he learn
to get that done?
Speaker 5 (07:13):
The thing that gives me hope is I watched him
over summer because Trevor and I ranked these guys over
summer and I had him as the eighth best corner
going in the season, and people are like, oh, you know,
and I thought he was a better receiver or polished
because he just there was no technique. He was like,
I'm out there and I'm gonna run with you for days.
And now he's made really big strides. But you turn
on the tip against the BYU this year, like he's
grabbing guys like he's he's falling out of the pays
(07:35):
and like, so I think it's a big issue with
all of them.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Really.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
There's a lot of leit athletes revel You brought up
the guy from ECU, that's like number one thing with him,
but he's he's twenty four, twenty three years old. So
it's like that's like we got to kind of see that,
you know what I mean, elite athlete coming off in
ACL injury. But when is the technique going to come
into play where it's a little bit more cris It's
a huge learning curve too, man, It's huge.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, And I think that's again so interesting. And the
other thing that I find really hard with corners is
like and every element of the college game there's differences
to the NFL game, but I feel like a corner specifically,
and it's one of the reasons, in my opinion, you
don't see a lot of corners drafted super high because
there's a huge it's to me, it feels like a
bigger jump to the NFL level with quarterback play, And again, like,
(08:18):
how do you negotiate that with your evaluation?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Right?
Speaker 5 (08:21):
It's difficult because you think of recent years like Sauce
Gardner and Derek Stingling went really really early, and that
even surprised me that as like got the top twelve,
top ten. I like them a lot, but you got
to if you're an elite athlete with length, size and
you're smart, like you got to talk to these guys
and you brought it up logan and tackling as well,
Like then you're the complete package. But I just guys
(08:41):
like that don't come through very often. I can't name
one in this class right now.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, but even I think Sauce Garter is a great example.
Like I've had a lot of concerns about how ski
agnostic he was going to be, like because he is
this tall, long guy who's pretty good in man coverage, Like,
how's he going to be in a more zone heavy system. Man,
you saw him kind of his his production waned a
little bit this last you know what I mean. And again,
like the corner is so scheme and skill set dependence
(09:06):
seemingly that it's so hard to translate what they're going
to be at the next level.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
We started breaking it down, like our final rankings. It's
not just here's my top ten corners. It's like, here's
the guys I think are gonna play the slot, which
I think is.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
A great It's great by you guys, it's awesome.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
It's just more nuanced with the fans that are like, Okay,
we took a cornerback, but cornerback is about four different
positions right now. Are you his own corner like you said,
are you a man corner? Can you do bolt which
is really hard? Are you a slot guy or are
you an outside guy? Like there's so many different roles,
especially with how they're using tight ends at the NFL
level right now, where not every slot receiver is five
point seven out there anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, And I think and this to kind of piggyback
off of that.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Like we just talked about some of the difficulties evaluating
these outside positions and then you're throwing the nickel in there,
and how they like they're a genuine run fit player
and so like they not only if they have it,
they draw a really tough coverage matchup because you're getting
that guy in the slot that can go inside, outside.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Take you vertical, but you also got to take on
a guard.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
You gotta fit a run and so right just seems
almost see, I don't even know where you would start
with something like that.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
It's it's tough.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Like Cooper Degene last year loved what he could do
because it felt like he can play the slot for
you was this bigger nickel, but he can come downhill
and tackle that was and he's a great special teamer.
And having his former teammates Sebastian Castro here who's listed
with this you know safety, but he played the nickel,
he put the slot for them and you talk to
him and that's part of the game he loves. He
loves coming downhill, being physical, using his instincts. So it's
(10:25):
in all shapes and size of this kind of thing,
and really the unique ones can do more than one role,
so puts a lot of pressure on the coaching staffs
to draft right and put these guys in the right position,
not just hey, we drafted you and now you've got
to do this even though you never did that.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
What's interstally, you mentioned Cooper Degene because last year I
felt like he he'd be perfect for that role because
he like he did he played safety, he played a
lot outside and he was a You saw the physicality right,
the understanding how to take on blocks and fit runs,
and you saw that with the Philadelphia Eagles.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Yeah, I mean it was it was the perfect match
for them, right because they kind of needed a little
bit more uh sandpaper in that secondary is how Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
like some guys where it's like yeah, And they took
Quinnyon too, who will let you know, like when he
makes a play against you. So they got two guys
there that they love the physical aspects of football. Quinnan'll
press you, Cooper will come down and hit you. And
I think it totally revamped the DNA of that back
(11:12):
end of the defense.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So we're gonna talk about tenans here in a second,
But do you have a player in this draft because
there's a couple of guys, a kid from Georgia, kid
from Texas who can play that nickel spot, and you're like, oh,
this is a guy that I really like in that position.
I hate to put you on the spot, but.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
I no, it's okay. I actually like one to transition there.
And it's Jacob Parrish from Kansas State. He's five foot nine,
he's smaller. I think he's also twenty sprinting champion in
high school, so the speed's a lady.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
He played outside at college.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
I just don't think that'll necessarily be what he'll do
at the next level. But he is so sticky man like,
he's in the hip pocket with everybody. If he can
be an adequate tackler in the slot, then that'll be
a really really good spot for him.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
I'll tell you right now.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Johday Baron in Texas, like I know, he played corner
this year.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
He is the one that came to mind for me.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Yeah, jah Day Barron is the like it's like a
Trent McDuffie kind of player. And I know he's brought
He's actually brought him up as someone he likes. Baron's
the if you want to spend a first round pick
on that guy, then you're going to take Baron. But
you know, I don't know how many teams always want
to spend that first round or on that guy.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think that's a great point too, is like the
value of a true nickel, Like I think it should
be kind of talked about, you know, in a more
valuable way because.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Everyone space defense. Yeah, absolutely so why not? Right?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
That's the goal is like you're always trying to like
tell fans like, hey, this isn't just a throwaway or
I look at that with two tight ends on a
roster now, like you look are the Lions. I think
they ran the second most twelve personnel in football. It's
like you gotta have two tight ends. Like you don't
just trot out there anymore and say like, oh, we
got our one tight end. And like the game has
changed a lot and rosters need to be deeper and deeper,
and you don't have eighty first round picks, so you
(12:39):
better learn how to evaluate people for what you want
to do.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
That's a great point. And then you mentioned tight ends,
Let's talk about them. They're doing their thing today. Do
you have a guy in this class that you're really
like juice don that you think could be special.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
I'm excited to see, if healthy, what Elijah Royo could do.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Yeah, man, like it's just what an interesting dude. It
talked to him this week. I mean when he was six,
his family moved at Mexico. He learned football in Spanish. Yeah,
learned football in Spanish. Was the biggest kid on the
field in Mexico's shock and he's like, I was returning kicks,
so I was playing every position. He's like, everything I
learned in football was in Spanish. Six years after that,
they moved to Texas because, I mean, kid was a
(13:14):
little different. Turns into a four star recruit, gets to Miami.
I think it was his second year there. He towards
ACL kind of costs him two years. Everybody kind of
forgets about him. Cam Ward gets there, Elijah's healthy, Elijah
has a monster year, great Senior Bowl.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
He just runs by everyone.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
But you know what it was when he sat down
next to me, I'm like, this guy's a lot bigger
than I thought. He'd got a nice frame, he's wide,
he's white. He's gonna get bigger.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I know.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
He came in two fifty two of the Senior Bowl,
which was a that's a nice number for him. We'll
play even bigger. I mean, you can run like him.
Confidence is there. Arroyo is the guy like I know
where we're going to Warren and Loveland and all these studs.
The Royo is the day two guy that I'm like,
I think it could be a difference maker.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, absolutely. I think the cool thing about this draft
class is there seems to me like a couple guys
who could be difference makers, right, like Harold Fannon Junior.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Like I don't really like how he run, but he.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Just works' and I keep to figure out. I keep
having to leave my bias at the door. Like he's winning.
It might not look great, but it's it's happening.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I know.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
Like all the numbers bros love him, and I'm like,
because I don't consider myself one. I dabble in analytics,
but I'm not a numbers bro. I'm like, I don't know.
It's it's he's a little stiff in some areas. He's
not big. He's going to probably play at two thirty five.
It was like a big slot play the receiver.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
It's a weird vow, but like at the Senior Bowl, though,
Like I was like, I was fully ready to go
in there and be like, he's too stiff to win. Yep,
but he's winning reps.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
So he wins. He finds the ball.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
There's something too, like these tight ends that are their
offense in college. It does translates. I think a Tran
McBride all the time. It was totally different player, but
like when you're featured in your offense as a tight end,
a lot of it carries over to the NFL in
some kind of form of success.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I think Trevic Bride's a really interesting colm because he
ran up four five six coming out. It was an
elite forty times for his size. If Farrell Fan and
Junior does something like.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
That, I know, I just am not confident he will.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I don't think so either, but he keeps surprising me.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
At some point, like when I have to bite the
ball and be like, I've just been wrong for three
months on this guy, like damn it, because I have.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Him behind Warren Lovelin Arroyo and Mason Taylor.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yes, let's talk about Mason Taylor, little bit guy from LSU, right,
because I actually like and it's probably my own bias
I work with Terrence Ferguson from Oregon.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
I like him.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
I think he's a special football player in terms of
how he tracks the football. And this is a lofty
comp but the movement skills in the past game remind
me a lot.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Of like Travis Kelce, like kind of that fluid.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Almost looks like they're like lazy, drunk kind of out there,
but they just find ways to separate stem get open.
Mason Taylor is interesting to me because I love the film.
I worry about the athlete a little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I do too.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
He's not that fast, He's an angry runner with the
ball in his hands.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I think he's so he I'm gonna talk to about
something there in a second. But like he's physical as
all outdoors, no doubt, but you know that only gets
you so far, Like are you a blocking y or
are you a difference maker in an offense?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Or are you a jack of all trades? Master? Not
in college that that doesn't work at the NFL level.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Right.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
He's a weird one for me because when we ranked
him over summer, I was like, I don't like this
guy at all, really, like it doesn't get like didn't
get the juices going, and then this year I'm like, oh,
I kind of see it now, like he's his hands
are a little better as a blocker. I thought he
was violent after the catch. The athleticism is a big
part in it for me. With him, I think Ferguson
I liked. I liked him more over the summer. I
just think there's a tension to detail in everything he does.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
We've talked, We've talked about that, so you know, cut
that out there. We've been talking about it. Get him right.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
It's like nobody cares because they had a lot of
mouths to feed in that offense. But he did the
same thing every year, which in a compliment, like I
mean that as a compliment. It's like, oh cool, he's
a factor in our red zone. We could trust him
to play, I think both on the line and off
the line. And I think he has a lot of
attention to his footwork, where like you don't need to
run a four or five if you know how to
get open.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, you brought up something there that I think is
maybe like, is the number one thing that I think
national draft media ignores the most about the position is
you have to be able to block a little bit right,
you're not a tight end if you don't correct. And
so if you're not a tight end, then you're a
slot receiver. And then think about the body types you're
competing with as a slot receiver. You know, you got
your Xavier Ristrepo or insert your crazy twitchy guy here, right.
(17:05):
So that's the thing that always gets me, is like,
you're not a tight end if you don't put your hint.
You gotta do I'm not saying you got to be
a killer, but you got to do.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Some of it.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And I've seen guys that get drafted as like kind
of that move f piece that never become what they
think they're going to be in the offense because they
can't actually play them. They can't play on the field
because they can't trust him to do tight end type things.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
To a degree, it's we're learning the hard way a little.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Kyle Pitts, Yeah, like Kyle Pitts, and I think a
little bit with Donald could caate a little bit that
one is, yes, yeah, And that was a concern for
me because I didn't think he blocked in college. And
the thing is his effort was there, yeah, yeah, no doubt,
but the balance, the kind of just the baseline. Like
I think about Jordan Reid is a really good example.
Like Jordan Reid was basically a receiver, but if he
had to, he could block a defensive end and it
(17:50):
wasn't always pretty, but he knew like tight elbows, good feet,
good balance, enough to get in the way. Travis Kelce
when he first got in the league, like he was
pretty good in the run game, and then it's it
gives you a floor of like I can play in
these packages and not have to always catch the football.
And it's something that I think we all wait every year.
It's like, let's find that move f and we always
forget about it always.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Is funny.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
When we did the tight end rankings, I knew people
were gonna flip out, so I just got it off
the top. I'm like, I didn't watch Ironde Gadsden from
Syracuse for this, and like, if you're I want to
know what he weighs in at the combine and then
we'll do the tight end rankings again.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
If he's a tight end but you need to play
tight end to.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Be I think that's a really good, like a really
good point because he's a guy that I think is
really interesting because he plays like a big slot outside
receiver type guy, but he looks like he's got enough
length to play in line. But they didn't ask him
to do it a time. So it's I think that's
a really good question because you have to have a floor.
If I'm gonna give you all these cool packages, you
have to be able to do like that's exactly right,
(18:46):
cut off on the back side or something like that.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
If you're just a slot receiver.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Okay, so I'm gonna rank you with you brought up
for Streppo Jalen Nol from Iowa State.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
It's a freak.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Yeah, Like, these guys are awesome. I want them in
my slot.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Even even Higgins from ia Was State might be a spot. Yeah,
it might be a big slot. The next that's the
type of athlete you're competing with. And I'm I love
tight ends. I'm a big tight end guy, but I'm
not going to put you on the field over one
of those players because they have so much more juice.
They can win a man man of situations.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
That's the problem. And then like when you look at
the Georgia Tech kid Hawes.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Love, dude, I love he don't even say one, don't
say one thing about him.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
You right now, I'm pretty jacked.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Right, dude, he's awesome because I want to take him.
I want to draft him as my tight end too
and be like, cool, now I have a sixth offensive lineman.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
S the commanders like John Bates, like, you need a
guy like that. It does so much for your run game,
does so much for your pass protection. He is he
is so committed to that and I love it, man,
I love watching.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
It fall in on it. I think he h this
happened with Tip Ryman last year.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Yes, like no one, no one cared about Tip and
I think he went in the third round and her
was like, oh God, like how did this?
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Like where did this come from? It's gonna happen with Hawes.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
So I have a lot of tight end coaches that
I still talk to in the NFL, and that is
when you talk to them about their lists. The main
difference between the composition of Nationalists is like, if dude
can block, they value him way more because they know
what it does to the floor of your offense. So
I think that's something that again, I think we it's
so fun to talk about the pass catcher, that dynamic guy.
Of course, you know, like Mason Taylor. I'm in on
(20:19):
him because he does stuff in line, you know what
I mean, Like, and he can do stuff in the
past game.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
So and that's why Warren's going to be a top
twelve pick.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
He is a freak, man.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
It's just different.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
He's a freak.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
It's different.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
I want you to talk about him for a second.
I've talked about him a lot.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
He's so fun to watch because it doesn't matter what
you ask him to do. I mean, he played quarterback
in high school, so then Penn State runs him in wildcat.
He looks pretty comfortable doing it. I think he's going
to be a Toush push cheat code at the next level.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
I'm like, oh, okay, so this is the next Toush
push cheat code when I watch him. But I asked
him about this, I'm like, dude, it just looks you
look more excited. He had a blockkinst Illinois two minutes
left in the game. I think it was fourth down.
It was this is game on the line. He blows
the linebacker off the all into the stands, running back scores,
Penn State wins the game. I was like, you look
ten times more excited by that than any other Playoff've
(21:06):
seen from you. And he's he's like, blocking is just
like what kind of gets him going. He's like, yeah,
in outside zone, He's like when I'm on the front side,
He's like, we call it getting the engine started, like
revving the engine, Like that's what kind of gets the
guy going, not the you know, eleven hundred receiving yards
or the He's just he's different like that where he
doesn't care how much he's involved in the box score.
(21:27):
He just wants to be in on every play with
physicality will come for him. I haven't landed one. He
likes shocky a lot.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Really, he and I looked.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
I was like, ah, yeah, I kind of want to
go there.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yeah, he loves shockey.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I was talking to Jason about this. He kind of
reminds me it's probably the size, but like Rob Gronkountkowski,
that kind of like I'm always open. I'm a big body,
And I hate to make that comp.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Because everyone's afraid to do it because.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
He's like one of the best and he's not the
same guy, but they kind of win the same way.
They compete in line, like it could be special, So.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
He could be special, and I think the draftskin are
a that, Like, I just it's annoying because when you
put him in the top ten of a mock, everyone's
like a tight end, like and they just start like
throwing names in your face, and I'm like, do you
realize how multiple this guy allows an offense to be?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
I have a question for you. So I've always kind
of kicked back this idea of like having a guy
that could run like kind of like a toush push package,
but like be your short yardage quarterback, you know what
I mean, kind of like Taysom Hill. And I think,
imagine if he could steal a couple four downs for
you or third like third and two, like because I
can run a little zone read with them or you
know whatever.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
It looks like I don't.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Know, right, Pennce, they did it, Yeah, and nobody had
an answer. Yeah, So why is like And it's not
like why wouldn't work in the NFL?
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I mean, he's what sixty six two sixty dude.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
He's a big man, he's huge, carries it well, moves
well acceleration. I just you feel so good about him
as a player, Like if you if you shut down
the facility after Night one, of the draft in that
guy's come in to your facility to wear a uniform.
You're telling me you don't feel amazing the next day.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Can you talk about that for a second, because I
think everyone also talks about like upside.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
But also I.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Think when you're picking an the top ten, top fifteen,
there's a floor element that you're looking for. And I
feel like, just because I feel like he's got it,
is there anybody else in the draft you're like, this
guy's got that floor.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Oh, that's a good one. This year feels a little
bit harder like last year.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I it is.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
I have to think about this.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
I know we're kind of underwhelmed by his measurements, but
Mason Graham, the tape is the tape, Like he's gonna
come in and you play him at three tech and
you ask him to hold the point of attack. I
think there's more pass rush in him than people realize.
Like he's got pretty good hips at that size. The
size is a little weird here. I thought he'd be
over three hundred pounds, but he's so strong pound for pound.
I like the floor with him. I think Loveland has
(23:35):
a really good floor. He's bigger than I thought like
he We had him come over to the set and
I'm like, damn, he's over sixty five. I think he's
gonna play closer to two sixty than people realize. He
won't play there, but like people think he's two forty.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
How heavy was he?
Speaker 4 (23:48):
I think he was two fifty two?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Here, good for you man? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah with an injury?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Oh is he?
Speaker 5 (23:54):
I think there's a show. I think there's a shoulder.
I want to make sure I'm right about that.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Well, we're not gonna hold you to it, but yeah,
some kind of injury. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
So if it's number body injury and he's healthy and lifting,
is he not.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
To fifty six?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
To fill to realize it was that big? I didn't
either didn't look it on film. You moved so well.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
He's so smart as soon as the play breaks down too.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Who's the Titan for Michigan? By the way? For people?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Yeah, I do this way too much.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
I just think everybody lives in this sick world that
I live in, where they're like, who are these people?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Where they play?
Speaker 4 (24:19):
How do I watch them? It's a really bad habit.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
Trevor yells a not yells at me, but he's like
he's like reminding me all the time, like, hey, some
people have lives.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I get on Logan about it all the time. That's
why he just stated it. I tell him all the time.
You have to say what school we're at because our fans.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
I'm broken. I'm never gonna fix some Sometimes.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I don't know because he's further into the evaluation process
and yeah, so yeah, to tell me where they're coming from. Hey,
can you tell that Logan's passionate about tight ends?
Speaker 4 (24:45):
That's awesome. I love doing this show with you guys.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
It's like, honestly one of my favorites of the entire
year because it's the best tight end commedy get to have.
And we're gonna have too. I think both are going
Top fifteen, by the way, I hope.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
So, yeah, I bring make tight end great again. You
know I can't.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I give into here great for the DC market.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Thanks, I want to cut that.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
I think I came into here like I love him.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Will probably go with the Broncos at twenty and I'm
just I think I'm dead wrong, Like I think the
league just is, Like I think he's a better player
than that. But the whole tight end now, I think
they're both going top fifteen.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
He's a special player, special mover and if he's that big,
like he can do like do more stuff in line
of scrimmage. And dude, it's cool having two guys that
are this talented, you know, and then having the tail
end of the tight end draft be this talented also
is great. So it's gonna be a lot of fun
to watch these guys run today.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I have one more question before you leave.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
We kept you way too.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Long, sterilling.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
If you're the GM of the Commanders, what are you
doing at the late first round? What position do you
think is an area of need? You don't need to
give me a player name, but.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Can I mean, I'd like to see if you could
steal one of the tackles, right like, is one going
to fall?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
That's that's a big question for me too. You have
one that you liked there at twenty nine, you.
Speaker 5 (25:51):
Know what I like, And I know he had the
one better up in the Senior Bowl that goes viral,
which is done. Talked about that a lot, But yeah,
I like Connor le I like Connor Lely. I like
you can't teach that base, the explosiveness in the base,
but you could get him stronger.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Yeah, like I think you can get him stronger. He's
interesting to me.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
I thought the Ohio State tackle Simmons had it all
and that injuries, Like I just don't know right now
with that kind of injury, but I thought the six
games I watched, I was like, this is the best
tackle in the draft of he just kept playing football.
We feel the same way, yeah, I mean just different,
like you're not supposed to move like that at that side.
They're real tackles.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
The question is, yeah, do you think you think he's
going to be there? I mean, I obviously injury dependent,
but like I think one of the two will okay,
because I want to think if you're a Commander's fan,
just to give you some context, like both those guys
are excellent football players, and I.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Think they're really high floor.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Obviously the injury was Simmons is going to be a
big deal, but like high win healthy, very high four players.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
I agree, And you know what those kind of guys like,
they're real tackles. How many commos that we're going to
have the next two months is will Campbell tackle? Is
Banks to tackle from Texas? See I'm getting better at
it as we go.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
On the podcast.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Those guys are real tackles.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, thank you so much for coming on, Connor. I
love this conversation that you guys have, and tight end
is always a fun time for us because of the
logan ten years in the NFL. You don't get there
without knowing what you're telling you about, even I mean.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And a dog in the blocking game. Oh, I know,
I know.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Thank you so much for coming on, Connor. Where can
we find you?
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Yeah, everything on NBC Sports, the NFL on NBC YouTube channel,
all my interviews there, or you could listen to the
NFL Stock Exchange podcasts.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
All right, that's Connor Rogers.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
That was really great conversation with Connor Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Man. He's does such a great job of kind of
keeping track everybody in this draft class. And you know,
now that we've kind of got that high level preview
and now that we've watched those guys you know, on
the field today, I think it's good to kind of
recap what we saw in the drill work today and
kind of just say there's some guys that sit out.
These are some guys that he talked about that I
also thought set out. You know, he's really good at
his jobs, he was able to kind of preview some
of those guys for us.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
We're almost doing like a little bit of selfie vow
here because we just talked about those guys and what
we wanted to see and then we got to see it.
So who stood out then in the CBS for you?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, So I think the first guy, because again we
talked about nickel players, is Jahadae Barron from Texas, and
he stood out because he's his film is excellent. But
he ran a four to three nine at the combine today,
which is something that everyone was really excited about. Five
ten and three quarters one hundred and ninety four pounds,
you know, a little short in the arm length, but
he moved so well and the big knock on him
was speed. So to see him get out there today
(28:14):
and absolutely run fast was great for him. You know,
he's going to kind of play that branch role in
that Detroit defense and so he's going to be kind
of nickel safety hybrid type guy.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
He played outside at Texas.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Maybe a team feels comfortable putting outside now, but I
think his rever him will be on the inside. And
that leads us really nicely into Malachi Starks from Georgia.
I just thought he didn't run a forty today, but
just looked incredibly smooth, got out there and kind of
in the same role. Like you get these two really
high value players that kind of are this safety Nickel combination,
and you see why they have some of the best
(28:48):
film in the class. Like just the movement skills, the instincts,
the ability to change direction, all that stuff I thought
was was extremely high, a high level from both those guys.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah, in the middle of this, I actually texted Fred
Smoot and I was like, hey, Fred, who are the
three guys that you really like here? And he said, well,
obviously I like Travis Hunter, Will Johnson, who didn't do
anything today, which is totally fine. They're gonna do it
at there per day. But then he was said, well Starks, Ya,
Stark stands out to him.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
And Starts is one of the guys I've watched film
of and you know immediately is a guy that again
like talking about what Connor was discussing, the guy that
he's kind of a safety Nickel hybrid but can play
man to man coverage against the receiver, can fit a run,
just a really valuable piece chess piece for defenses and
especially the way people are playing defense. Now, I thought
he really so got so again those guys are kind
(29:34):
of two nickel players. The other guy that he mentioned
specifically is Marquise Single from Kansas State, and I had
never seen him before. But I do this thing where
I'm kind of going through the drills and I try
not to look at the names, and I just write
a check mark next to the name if I thought
it was good, and nothing if I thought it was poor.
And he was a guy that I have seven check
(29:55):
marks in my book next to him, they do about
seven drills.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So really really stuck out.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
And he's a safety kind of hybrid player, but I
thought he really looked ran a great forty.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It was a four to four something like that four
four one.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
So just another guy that really did a great job
kind of again in that safety nickel hybrid kind of role,
did a fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
And what did you think overall about the movement skills?
Was there anybody that stood out? Anybody that was like
a little stiff like we did yesterday in our recap
of the guys, like who raised an eyebrow for you?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Good or bad?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
So I think the first guy I'll talk about two guys.
One is Max Harrison or Harston excuse me, from Kentucky.
And he did a great job today because I think
he was bigger than I thought he'd be. Was five
eleven and a quarter one hundred and eighty three pounds,
thirty one in arms, with the big kind of eye
popping number there was the four two nine. He ran
the fastest forty at the combine thus far. And then
(30:51):
so you say, alway, is he just a fast guy?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
But then you get him, see him out there in
the movement drills, and he's moving probably the best of
the group. So I mean, you expected a guy like
that to come out and do well, but I kind
of I wasn't sure about his body weight. Just for
him to come at one eighty three and run the
way he did, you know, again, not the biggest guy
in the whole world, but about six foot over one
hundred and eighty pounds run that four to two nine.
(31:13):
Just incredibly impressed with him. Another guy that I had
very little read on was a zab Frasier from Utsa
and he's six to two and h three eighths. He's
one hundred and eighty six pounds. He's got thirty two
and seven ancients arms, so thirty three in charms. Big
long corner had a thirty thirty six and a half
inch vertical and also ran a high fourth three. I
(31:36):
think it was a four to three nine four three
eight something like that. So I just guys that stood out.
And then in the drills he'd got a bunch of
check mark marks next to his game name two, so
really impressed. And then another guy just wanted to give
a shout out to real quick was Darren Porter from
Iowa State. You know, he's the biggest corner here. He's
six to two and seven eighths, he's one hundred and
(31:58):
ninety five pounds, he's got thirty three and one eighth
that's arms, and he ran a four three forty. Everyone
knew he's gonna run super fast, but you know, seeing
him in the drills, he's as a touch stiff. But
we saw that at the Cedar Bowl, we saw that
on film. So not nothing crazy, but to see a
man that big, that athletic, you know, I've heard a
lot of comps to him to like Tyreek wooland just
like a guy who's a converted wide receiver. He's a
(32:20):
guy to keep an eye on just and again, I
don't know what he's gonna because the stiffness seems to
be there for him. But to see a number like
that from a guy that size, it's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
What do you think of these guys that you saw
at DB's. Do you think that it's more I don't
want to say pressing, but where do you feel like
the need for the commanders would be. Is it more cornerback,
is it more free safety, strong safety? And then of that,
what guy do you think kind of fits with what
we currently have with Sanders, still with Lattimore and what
(32:51):
we have going on in the backfield.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
So I think there was a bunch of guys that
stood out to me today that were kind of like
maybe these slot kind of mixed guys, you know that
we were like, oh, hey, if Mikey wants to stay outside,
we could bring one of these guys in. We just
talked about Starks, We talked about you know, I forget
the other guy's name.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
We talked about it.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
It's not in my notes at the moment, but you know,
there's the Jabir Muhammad from Oregon is a smaller kind
of slot Nickel.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Type player, right, and he looked great.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
And then the same thing with Jalen Smith from USC
like and I think he could probably play outside, but
these are smaller corners, so I think for me, I
was kind of thinking about the bigger guys like Azure Thomas,
who you talked about raising an eyebrow. I was a
tick disappointed with his movement skills. I loved him at
the Senior Bowl. This film's good in man and man coverage,
but a little stiffer than I thought. So is he
quite as as scheme agnostic as I was hoping. I
(33:42):
don't know, but he's a guy that really stood out
in a in a positive way at the Senior Bowl.
Here it was a little bit more of a you know,
not quite the mover I was hoping for.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
But to me, that's the type of guy.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
That's why I brought up Darren Porter, these taller Zayer Fraser,
these taller, longer athletic guys. Trey Amos is another guy
from Old miss who I think deserves a shout out.
He didn't I don't think he ran a forty. If
he didn't know he did run a forty, it was
four to four. It was four to four on the
dot and look great in the move in the movement drills.
He's a guy that I do think the Washington Commanders
could potentially select at twenty nine. I'll be there at
(34:13):
the end of the first round. But if they don't
pick him, for example, some of those other names I
just mentioned are guys that maybe are there and they're
picking up the bottom of the second So I think
it was a It was a different group than I
was expecting overall. One that is talented, for sure, but
it's the talents different, and you got a bunch of
guys who like last year, I remember thinking, man, this
group moves so well, and I felt like there wasn't
(34:36):
that elite movement skill outside of a couple guys, and
was much easier kind of pinpoint those guys and say, hey,
these guys are are special athletes and but they need
some developmental work. I think was the thing that I
came out of it. I don't know how you felt
about it, Jason, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
I a little bit. I would say that like the
thing again, I've said this before several times, it's really
hard for me.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, to evaluate courts. That's really hard, especially here, like.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
If we're just talking about movement, like Maxwell looked great, right,
very good movement. The kid from Oregon, I'm blinking on
his name.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
You just said it, yeah, Mohammad.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, he looked great. A little small, but he moved
so well. So like we're talking about movement, those guys
moved really well. But then there was also like it's
I don't know how they fit right in schemes because
that's another big one and it's tough for just a
guy like me, is like, Okay, is he really good
at man? Is he really good at zoone? Is he
(35:33):
really good in the nickel? Like how does he fit
within the scheme that we have here with Joe Witt
and Dan Campbell? Like it's really you asked me that question.
Is really hard for me to kind of like answer,
how like that even fits when.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, look at it.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
And I also think it's important. We've watched some of
these guys, but definitely not all of them. And I
you know, I was talking to a scout no A
coach last night and he said, oh, I love coming
into the combine having watched no film of guys because
it's kind of like my jumping off for it. So
I feel like with this group, you know, I have
some takes on some of these guys, but some of
the guys we just talked about. But I'm definitely going
to go back and look at some of these players
(36:06):
that moved really well, like you know, Zariah Thomas, going
to watch more of him, Jalen Smith from USC because
of how he moved today. Darren Porter, I want to
see what that size look like when he's playing football.
Jamiir Muhammad is another one, right, Max Harston, want to
see what his film looks like.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Tire Fraser.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You know, Trey Amos watched those guys Live and the
Living in Color because of how they did here and
then you can kind of compare them to the.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Rest of the class.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
But I also wanted to give two more guys a
shout out, just real quick. Yeah, Nick Annamari from South
Carolina looked like.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
An absolute freak show. Like look like an absolute freak
show today.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I mean, I told you I've had some issues with
this film because I just found out today that I
happened to watch the worst game of his career and
I was like, this guy's not Yeah, this guy's not
as good as I hope, but he looked like an
absolute monster. And then, gosh, there's one more guy that
I wanted to kind of say, did some good work
today if I can find him on my notes here, Oh,
(37:00):
Ryan Lane, the third from the Naval Academy. And again
I'm gonna go watch some Navy football after this. Just
looked the part, just looked the part of a safety
at the NFL level. And I think he's a guy
that I want to see how he plays ball, right
because all the movement stuff was great. Same thing with
Malik Vernon from Iowa State. He's a big guy, a
long guy, moved well in the drill. So you kind
(37:21):
of say, these guys are big, physical looking dudes we
watch more. But obviously nick Emmon Warry wins the day
because he runs four three nine, he's two hundred and
twenty two pounds, he has a forty four inch vertical
it's the third highest vertical for a guy over six
three at the combine. So definitely definitely won the day
in terms of combine athleticism.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
So let's move on to your favorite position, and that's
going to be tight ends. So I want you to
give me a big picture of what this tight end
class looks like and let's start off with some guys
that didn't test today, Tyler Warren being the big one,
Colson Loveland didn't test.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
A couple other guys from Miami.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Elijah Royo, Brian Keith from Utah end test, Luke Lackey.
He did field work but didn't do a forty. Taylor
Mason didn't do a forty. And it was interesting because
you're kind of come into this event and everyone's telling
you how deep the classes, right, the class is so
so deep, there's so many good players. And I do
(38:19):
think that's true. I think Colson Lovelin's a beast. I
think Tyler Warren's a beast. I think Elijah Royo is
a beast. The problem was is, like, then when you
get after that and you see the group without those
guys in it, the rest of the guys running forties,
the rest of the guys running routes, and you're kind
of like, actually, who would you draft to be a
difference maker outside of those three? And that was the
(38:42):
thing that really stuck out to me. Obviously Taylor or Mason. Taylor,
excuse me's getting a lot of hype. I think his
role at the next level is going to be interesting
because he didn't run super fast, doesn't catch the ball
super well. He's a good football player, so don't get
me wrong. If the commander's draft, then might be stoked
because he's tough, he's competitive, all those things, but you know,
is he a true f Like probably not right, And
(39:02):
then you're kind of like, who else are we looking at?
Harold Fannon didn't run as well as I thought he
was going to run to day, he ran a four
to seven. I thought he'd be a four to six,
four to five kind of guy. So can he be
an inline player? And like we were talking about with
Connor today, like you have to do a little bit
of stuff in line, and that's really not Harold Fannon's.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Cup of tea.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
So the list gets really, really short. And then Aronde
Gatzen I thought looked great in the drill and the
field movement stuff, but didn't run a forty So how
fast are you?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Really?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Can you be a true move piece that can win
versus man and man coverage kind of like your Jordan
Reid player, And all of a sudden you're like, well,
if the commanders are picking it too or in the
second round. Who's the guy they would select there? And
to me, it's Terence Ferguson, the guy.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
That yeah, and full disclosure, you did some work get ready.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
And but here's the thing. He was to Bella the
ball and like, even though you may be a little biased,
like fastest forty of the tight ends today was a vertical,
very explosive, very small. I don't think anybody is going
to come away from what we saw in the field
and not say this guy stood out.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, And that's one of the benefits of you know,
being able to work with these young talented guys, Like
is you know you ran a four to six three
and he's over six five, he's over two hundred and
forty pounds, he has a thirty nine and a half
inch vertical like he's a special athlete. And then to
see him move and run routes compared to the other guys,
I thought was was special today. And I'm not saying
this as a way to hype up Terrence, And obviously
(40:27):
I want to hype up because I worked with them.
But the thing is is, like I just named potentially
five guys that'll go ahead of them, right. Two A
goal in the first round, Mason Taylor and Elijah Arroyo, right,
And so I think Elijah Royo is going to go
at the top of the first round. I think Mason
Taylor maybe mid to late, and then Terrence is the guy.
(40:48):
And so if you want a guy who can catch
the football, compete in line. I'm just saying it gets
a little thin after that if you say those other
five guys go ahead, because because I do think that
when you look at Harold fannin junior and produced today
the way he wanted and the reason I point him out,
small school guy at Bowling Green played basically wide receiver,
a version of wide receiver for them, and so you're saying, well,
(41:10):
he's got to be like a big slot at the
next level, be like your Dalton kid Kaid, and he
just didn't run the way that I thought he would run.
And then Gadson, like we just talked about, very very similar,
didn't run at forty today. So I do think while
those guys will probably be third round selections, I think
because of Terrence's production today, he becomes that guy that
you say, hey, if we want a guy to develop
(41:30):
behind zach Ertz, maybe this is the move here for
the Washington Commanders.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Yeah, and he's a weapon from Oregon. I don't know
if we say that. Ye, yeah, from the Oregon Ducks.
And he had forty three receptions this year, five hundred
and ninety yards, three touchdowns, and like that's consistent year
before forty forty two receptions, sorry, six touchdowns. And I
don't want to say his best game because it was
his best gaming yardage, but he showed up in the
last game that Oregon played and that was against Ohio
(41:56):
State ended up being the national champions in the playoffs.
So like he's also is a big game player. Yeah, right,
Like there's a lot to like from him in like
you said, not the first round, like where he might
end up being in. How do you think, like what
do you think the Commanders need with a tight end
with what they've currently got.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, So I think that's the thing that keeps coming
to mind and why guys like Arroyo and Terrence and
some of these other move types of pieces are so
interesting is I just look at what Zach did last
year and how incredibly special he was. Like people I
think are taking for granted how well he played Zach
Eritz played last year. Oh yeah, over seventy catches. His
production on first down, the amount of touchdowns he had,
(42:37):
it's such a big chunk of the offense. And you
see how dynamic you can be when you have a
playmaker like that at the position. And so I think, yeah,
bring Zach back this year. You know, obviously I'm not
telling Adam Peters what to do, but I would assume
that's something that they're definitely kicking the tires on. But
you need to make sure you have someone a young
piece kind of waiting in the wins a wings. And
I'm not saying that's not Ben Sinitt, but when you
look at how Ben Sinnett does stuff and how Zach
(42:59):
does stuff, different players, So one of these players we
just talked about is maybe slightly more similar. A guy
that can win versus man can run a more diverse
route tree. And that's where I'd say, like, that's kind
of what you're looking for, is a someone who can
do what Zach does. Standing up in a two point
gets you gives you enough in the in line, right,
but the two point red zone Manda man winning stuff.
(43:20):
And I think, like I just pointed out, even though
this is kind of reported to be a very deep
tight end class, and there are guys that you want
to be a part of your organization, part of your program.
The difference makers, I think, are guys that'll go for
sure in the first three rounds and they really really
good ones will probably go in the first two.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, this was a lot of fun. Tomorrow's the big day,
I would say. I mean, O line is one of
the bigger for us, but tomorrow's the big day for
the fans. Is wide receivers, it's quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
There'll be a ton of people here.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Yeah, there will be a ton of people year, so
make sure you tune in for after that, we will
break all that down like how we did last year.
Hopefully get some more fireworks. Like breaking the record was
so cool and so much fun. I remember watching Joe
Milton throw the ball like it just crazy stuff. Anthony
richardson that one. Yeah, it was so much fun to watch.
So we'll break it down. It's a lot of fun.
(44:12):
But uh yeah, So thanks to Connor Rogers for joining
the show, Thank you guys for listening, and logan that's it.
On today's episode of Tickets to the Draft, we have
Connor Rogers, NBC Draft analysts. Man, he's so good at
his job, and we get in a spirited conversation about
tight ends and defensive backs and preview Day two of
the combine, and then me and just the guy, Jason,
we give you all the details, who ran fast, who
ran slow, who made themselves money to day.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It all starts right now, And welcome to the Ticket
of the Draft podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'm Logan Paulson here with Jessic Guy, Jason and Jason.
Today we have a very special event.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Yeah, we have Connor Rodgers from NBC Sports and PFFS
NFL Stock Exchange.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
And he is such a special guest to have because
he is so locked in with the draft content. He
gets to do interviews with a lot of the prospects
here on Radio Row on the other side of that
curtain over there where everybody's hanging out, and he does
a great job, and so it gives a really awesome
insight into the players. And I think one of the
things that I enjoyed about having him on was it's
a very high level view. Yeah, there's also enough specificity
(01:01):
for the commandager you say, man like, he is so good.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
At what he does. He's so good at his job.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So we're able to talk DB's kind of give a
little preview, not necessarily of what they do today on
the field, but just of the class in general, and
also of tight end, which I thought was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Oh yeah, the tight end conversation is great because you
love tight ends and he's locked in. So the two
of you guys had like I would say, a spirited
conversation about tight ends. Like not much, not like disagreement,
but you guys were like both. It was like a
good tag team in the WWE.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I mean he's and again I'm gonna say this again,
he is a beast.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
His ability to have recall, he's met He's met Tyler Warren,
he's met Colston Loveland, He's met these guys that are
going to be first round draft picks, and so to
have that relationship and understand who they are kind of
in a way that we can't because we've never met them,
it was pretty special.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yeah, So the two of you are going to have
like a little preview of what tonight's combine was, and
then after the Rogers we're going to get back together
after the combined ends, and we're going to talk about, hey,
were you guys right, and get up a little breakdown
what actually happened to combine, like how we do in
every episode.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So here's Connor Rogers.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Okay, so with us, here is Connor Rogers, NBC Sports
Draft analysts. Also you can hear them with Trevor sick
them out on the PFF NFL Stock Exchange. We're super
excited to have you here. Really smart guy. Every time
you you came on last year, learned a lot from you.
I listened to your pod all the time. With Trevor,
I learn a lot. It's fantastic. And actually Logan and
(02:24):
I were talking the other day. We also do the
or at least I do. Volume on TV needs to
be an even numbers or fives, like that's it. It's
gotta be that.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, and my wife thinks I'm crazy.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I think you're crazy too, though it's always one person
in the relationship that's like that psychopath that like starts
trembling if it's on an odd number.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
One of the things that being OCD is really good.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
One of the things I did when buying a new
TV recently was that TV's now don't have numbers. It's
just a bar. And I'm like, this is beautiful because.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Who made that? Somebody?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, all right, So I'm just gonna let you guys go.
So because cornerbacks and tight ends are going, today's kind
of like a little preview, a little imoge booch where
our feels. So one of the things Logan and I
talk about all the time is that cornerback is for
us hard to evaluate. So I wanted you to guys
to get into, like what are the pain points and
evaluation of turnback? And then how do you like make
(03:24):
up for that or what are things and tips and
tricks that we can look.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
For, right?
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Yeah, I mean obviously at its most basic to me,
like it's really nice if you have length, size and
you can open up and run. That's like the most
basic pinpoints. Because guess what everybody in the NFL is bigger,
as Logan is aware of, and faster. The thing I've
been diving into more over the last couple of years though,
and this helps with pff is I really like to
dive into a guy? How much did a guy play
man coverage single man coverage? And how did he look
(03:50):
doing it because, like listen, there's nothing against own coverage,
and obviously that's a big part of the NFL. But
if you can play in single man coverage against a
college receiver, against some of the better college receivers, or
if you have experience doing that, the translation to me
like the it's a higher hit rate at the NFL level.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Like azari A. Thomas in this classrom Florida State.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
He's twenty, right, and the program wasn't good this year,
but he played over three hundred snaps in man coverage
over the last two years. Like, that's a lot of
experience for a guy arms down to the ground, he's
gonna fly. So you just try to get points where
you feel a little more confident about the guy's transition,
you're doing less guessing.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, I think it's I think that's a great point
because it really comes down to, like, in my opinion,
like the movement skills, and you don't get the movement
skills and zone coverage. Obviously there's an instinct element there
that you really like to watch. But I mean that's
one of the reasons you do want to one at
the senior ball right, right, You want to see one
on ones like in the film, right, like because you
get to see how a guy moves, his physicality, how
he tracks the ball when the ball's in the air,
(04:46):
right in those kind of contested situations. So I love
that and it's great at PFF you can probably sort that.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
You can.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Yeah, So when I really tap into a guy, it's
the first thing I do, because you'll hear a lot
of hype about a guy and it's like, Okay, I
don't need to see him playing off and sitting in.
It's great, Like instincts and eyes and anticipation, all those
things matter.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
You don't not watch it.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
But man, you're right, like how a guy moves and
how he matches movements and if he can open up
his hips and all those things, like that's number one
for me at the top.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
And I think the other thing too that I think
gets overlooked with corners so much is their ability to tackle.
Everyone gets so infatuated with their movement skill, which is important,
Like this is an important part of the evaluation. We
want athletes who want tall, long guys like you're talking about.
But to me, if they don't tackle and if they're
not physical like in the NFL, now, like they're the
run defense, the going after them.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Which is great.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
Like I think it's awesome, and I'll tell you right now,
in this class, it's a question with a lot of
these guys. And I like these corners. I like this
size and speed and the movement skills. But you can
start at the top, like and Travis Hunter said it here. Okay,
I'm not breaking news. Like tackling it needs to improve
a little bit. Will Johnson's a bigger guy. I don't
think that's a problem in his game. But even you
go down the list like Azari.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
But I started to interrupt you, But even though he's
a bigger guy, they all have question marks. Like everyone's
wondering how he's gonna run. That's number one. Everyone's got
a bunch of injury. You know, like that you're on
the list, You're like, you know, Morrison's banged up, the
kid from Carolina wherever East Carolina's banged up.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, they're coming off injuries, and so they've got all
of the kind of boxes chests, all of them. But
they all heard he's like huge question marks, which is
a little, uh, a little unnerving.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, it is. There's no, there's no layup.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
I would say, like, there's no layup, like Travis is
the closest to me. But I mean, once again, we
don't even know what he's going to do full time
at the next level.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
I know he thinks he's going.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
To do both. We'll see. Uh.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
That's another thing I wanted to ask you because, like,
I think he's a really good example of of this
other thing that I wanted to bring up with you.
So obviously we mentioned tackling. I think he's relatively physical.
I think he moves well all those things you're talking about,
But I do think there is a lack of, like
eleage technical proficiency, which I've been burned on in the
past with corners where I've seen a.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Guy who's the athlete.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
He's physical, he's like this wild horse you can tell
you loves ball, but they don't have the like the footwork,
the timing down, and people I think underrate the importance
of that. Travis Hunter again is a fun watch. He's
a freak. But that's something I keep coming back to.
It's like, how detrimental is that? And can he learn
to get that done?
Speaker 5 (07:13):
The thing that gives me hope is I watched him
over summer because Trevor and I ranked these guys over
summer and I had him as the eighth best corner
going in the season, and people are like, oh, you know,
and I thought he was a better receiver or polished
because he just there was no technique. He was like,
I'm out there and I'm gonna run with you for days.
And now he's made really big strides. But you turn
on the tip against the BYU this year, like he's
grabbing guys like he's he's falling out of the pays
(07:35):
and like, so I think it's a big issue with
all of them.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Really.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
There's a lot of leit athletes revel You brought up
the guy from ECU, that's like number one thing with him,
but he's he's twenty four, twenty three years old. So
it's like that's like we got to kind of see that,
you know what I mean, elite athlete coming off in
ACL injury. But when is the technique going to come
into play where it's a little bit more cris It's
a huge learning curve too, man, It's huge.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, And I think that's again so interesting. And the
other thing that I find really hard with corners is
like and every element of the college game there's differences
to the NFL game, but I feel like a corner specifically,
and it's one of the reasons, in my opinion, you
don't see a lot of corners drafted super high because
there's a huge it's to me, it feels like a
bigger jump to the NFL level with quarterback play, And again, like,
(08:18):
how do you negotiate that with your evaluation?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Right?
Speaker 5 (08:21):
It's difficult because you think of recent years like Sauce
Gardner and Derek Stingling went really really early, and that
even surprised me that as like got the top twelve,
top ten. I like them a lot, but you got
to if you're an elite athlete with length, size and
you're smart, like you got to talk to these guys
and you brought it up logan and tackling as well,
Like then you're the complete package. But I just guys
(08:41):
like that don't come through very often. I can't name
one in this class right now.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, but even I think Sauce Garter is a great example.
Like I've had a lot of concerns about how ski
agnostic he was going to be, like because he is
this tall, long guy who's pretty good in man coverage, Like,
how's he going to be in a more zone heavy system. Man,
you saw him kind of his his production waned a
little bit this last you know what I mean. And again,
like the corner is so scheme and skill set dependence
(09:06):
seemingly that it's so hard to translate what they're going
to be at the next level.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
We started breaking it down, like our final rankings. It's
not just here's my top ten corners. It's like, here's
the guys I think are gonna play the slot, which
I think is.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
A great It's great by you guys, it's awesome.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
It's just more nuanced with the fans that are like, Okay,
we took a cornerback, but cornerback is about four different
positions right now. Are you his own corner like you said,
are you a man corner? Can you do bolt which
is really hard? Are you a slot guy or are
you an outside guy? Like there's so many different roles,
especially with how they're using tight ends at the NFL
level right now, where not every slot receiver is five
point seven out there anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, And I think and this to kind of piggyback
off of that.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Like we just talked about some of the difficulties evaluating
these outside positions and then you're throwing the nickel in there,
and how they like they're a genuine run fit player
and so like they not only if they have it,
they draw a really tough coverage matchup because you're getting
that guy in the slot that can go inside, outside.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Take you vertical, but you also got to take on
a guard.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
You gotta fit a run and so right just seems
almost see, I don't even know where you would start
with something like that.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
It's it's tough.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Like Cooper Degene last year loved what he could do
because it felt like he can play the slot for
you was this bigger nickel, but he can come downhill
and tackle that was and he's a great special teamer.
And having his former teammates Sebastian Castro here who's listed
with this you know safety, but he played the nickel,
he put the slot for them and you talk to
him and that's part of the game he loves. He
loves coming downhill, being physical, using his instincts. So it's
(10:25):
in all shapes and size of this kind of thing,
and really the unique ones can do more than one role,
so puts a lot of pressure on the coaching staffs
to draft right and put these guys in the right position,
not just hey, we drafted you and now you've got
to do this even though you never did that.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
What's interstally, you mentioned Cooper Degene because last year I
felt like he he'd be perfect for that role because
he like he did he played safety, he played a
lot outside and he was a You saw the physicality right,
the understanding how to take on blocks and fit runs,
and you saw that with the Philadelphia Eagles.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Yeah, I mean it was it was the perfect match
for them, right because they kind of needed a little
bit more uh sandpaper in that secondary is how Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
like some guys where it's like yeah, And they took
Quinnyon too, who will let you know, like when he
makes a play against you. So they got two guys
there that they love the physical aspects of football. Quinnan'll
press you, Cooper will come down and hit you. And
I think it totally revamped the DNA of that back
(11:12):
end of the defense.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So we're gonna talk about tenans here in a second,
But do you have a player in this draft because
there's a couple of guys, a kid from Georgia, kid
from Texas who can play that nickel spot, and you're like, oh,
this is a guy that I really like in that position.
I hate to put you on the spot, but.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
I no, it's okay. I actually like one to transition there.
And it's Jacob Parrish from Kansas State. He's five foot nine,
he's smaller. I think he's also twenty sprinting champion in
high school, so the speed's a lady.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
He played outside at college.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
I just don't think that'll necessarily be what he'll do
at the next level. But he is so sticky man like,
he's in the hip pocket with everybody. If he can
be an adequate tackler in the slot, then that'll be
a really really good spot for him.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
I'll tell you right now.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Johday Baron in Texas, like I know, he played corner
this year.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
He is the one that came to mind for me.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Yeah, jah Day Barron is the like it's like a
Trent McDuffie kind of player. And I know he's brought
He's actually brought him up as someone he likes. Baron's
the if you want to spend a first round pick
on that guy, then you're going to take Baron. But
you know, I don't know how many teams always want
to spend that first round or on that guy.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think that's a great point too, is like the
value of a true nickel, Like I think it should
be kind of talked about, you know, in a more
valuable way because.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Everyone space defense. Yeah, absolutely so why not? Right?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
That's the goal is like you're always trying to like
tell fans like, hey, this isn't just a throwaway or
I look at that with two tight ends on a
roster now, like you look are the Lions. I think
they ran the second most twelve personnel in football. It's
like you gotta have two tight ends. Like you don't
just trot out there anymore and say like, oh, we
got our one tight end. And like the game has
changed a lot and rosters need to be deeper and deeper,
and you don't have eighty first round picks, so you
(12:39):
better learn how to evaluate people for what you want
to do.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
That's a great point. And then you mentioned tight ends,
Let's talk about them. They're doing their thing today. Do
you have a guy in this class that you're really
like juice don that you think could be special.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
I'm excited to see, if healthy, what Elijah Royo could do.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Yeah, man, like it's just what an interesting dude. It
talked to him this week. I mean when he was six,
his family moved at Mexico. He learned football in Spanish. Yeah,
learned football in Spanish. Was the biggest kid on the
field in Mexico's shock and he's like, I was returning kicks,
so I was playing every position. He's like, everything I
learned in football was in Spanish. Six years after that,
they moved to Texas because, I mean, kid was a
(13:14):
little different. Turns into a four star recruit, gets to Miami.
I think it was his second year there. He towards
ACL kind of costs him two years. Everybody kind of
forgets about him. Cam Ward gets there, Elijah's healthy, Elijah
has a monster year, great Senior Bowl.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
He just runs by everyone.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
But you know what it was when he sat down
next to me, I'm like, this guy's a lot bigger
than I thought. He'd got a nice frame, he's wide,
he's white. He's gonna get bigger.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I know.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
He came in two fifty two of the Senior Bowl,
which was a that's a nice number for him. We'll
play even bigger. I mean, you can run like him.
Confidence is there. Arroyo is the guy like I know
where we're going to Warren and Loveland and all these studs.
The Royo is the day two guy that I'm like,
I think it could be a difference maker.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, absolutely. I think the cool thing about this draft
class is there seems to me like a couple guys
who could be difference makers, right, like Harold Fannon Junior.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Like I don't really like how he run, but he.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Just works' and I keep to figure out. I keep
having to leave my bias at the door. Like he's winning.
It might not look great, but it's it's happening.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I know.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
Like all the numbers bros love him, and I'm like,
because I don't consider myself one. I dabble in analytics,
but I'm not a numbers bro. I'm like, I don't know.
It's it's he's a little stiff in some areas. He's
not big. He's going to probably play at two thirty five.
It was like a big slot play the receiver.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
It's a weird vow, but like at the Senior Bowl, though,
Like I was like, I was fully ready to go
in there and be like, he's too stiff to win. Yep,
but he's winning reps.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
So he wins. He finds the ball.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
There's something too, like these tight ends that are their
offense in college. It does translates. I think a Tran
McBride all the time. It was totally different player, but
like when you're featured in your offense as a tight end,
a lot of it carries over to the NFL in
some kind of form of success.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I think Trevic Bride's a really interesting colm because he
ran up four five six coming out. It was an
elite forty times for his size. If Farrell Fan and
Junior does something like.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
That, I know, I just am not confident he will.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I don't think so either, but he keeps surprising me.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
At some point, like when I have to bite the
ball and be like, I've just been wrong for three
months on this guy, like damn it, because I have.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Him behind Warren Lovelin Arroyo and Mason Taylor.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yes, let's talk about Mason Taylor, little bit guy from LSU, right,
because I actually like and it's probably my own bias
I work with Terrence Ferguson from Oregon.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
I like him.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
I think he's a special football player in terms of
how he tracks the football. And this is a lofty
comp but the movement skills in the past game remind
me a lot.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Of like Travis Kelce, like kind of that fluid.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Almost looks like they're like lazy, drunk kind of out there,
but they just find ways to separate stem get open.
Mason Taylor is interesting to me because I love the film.
I worry about the athlete a little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I do too.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
He's not that fast, He's an angry runner with the
ball in his hands.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I think he's so he I'm gonna talk to about
something there in a second. But like he's physical as
all outdoors, no doubt, but you know that only gets
you so far, Like are you a blocking y or
are you a difference maker in an offense?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Or are you a jack of all trades? Master? Not
in college that that doesn't work at the NFL level.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Right.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
He's a weird one for me because when we ranked
him over summer, I was like, I don't like this
guy at all, really, like it doesn't get like didn't
get the juices going, and then this year I'm like, oh,
I kind of see it now, like he's his hands
are a little better as a blocker. I thought he
was violent after the catch. The athleticism is a big
part in it for me. With him, I think Ferguson
I liked. I liked him more over the summer. I
just think there's a tension to detail in everything he does.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
We've talked, We've talked about that, so you know, cut
that out there. We've been talking about it. Get him right.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
It's like nobody cares because they had a lot of
mouths to feed in that offense. But he did the
same thing every year, which in a compliment, like I
mean that as a compliment. It's like, oh cool, he's
a factor in our red zone. We could trust him
to play, I think both on the line and off
the line. And I think he has a lot of
attention to his footwork, where like you don't need to
run a four or five if you know how to
get open.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, you brought up something there that I think is
maybe like, is the number one thing that I think
national draft media ignores the most about the position is
you have to be able to block a little bit right,
you're not a tight end if you don't correct. And
so if you're not a tight end, then you're a
slot receiver. And then think about the body types you're
competing with as a slot receiver. You know, you got
your Xavier Ristrepo or insert your crazy twitchy guy here, right.
(17:05):
So that's the thing that always gets me, is like,
you're not a tight end if you don't put your hint.
You gotta do I'm not saying you got to be
a killer, but you got to do.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Some of it.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And I've seen guys that get drafted as like kind
of that move f piece that never become what they
think they're going to be in the offense because they
can't actually play them. They can't play on the field
because they can't trust him to do tight end type things.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
To a degree, it's we're learning the hard way a little.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Kyle Pitts, Yeah, like Kyle Pitts, and I think a
little bit with Donald could caate a little bit that
one is, yes, yeah, And that was a concern for
me because I didn't think he blocked in college. And
the thing is his effort was there, yeah, yeah, no doubt,
but the balance, the kind of just the baseline. Like
I think about Jordan Reid is a really good example.
Like Jordan Reid was basically a receiver, but if he
had to, he could block a defensive end and it
(17:50):
wasn't always pretty, but he knew like tight elbows, good feet,
good balance, enough to get in the way. Travis Kelce
when he first got in the league, like he was
pretty good in the run game, and then it's it
gives you a floor of like I can play in
these packages and not have to always catch the football.
And it's something that I think we all wait every year.
It's like, let's find that move f and we always
forget about it always.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Is funny.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
When we did the tight end rankings, I knew people
were gonna flip out, so I just got it off
the top. I'm like, I didn't watch Ironde Gadsden from
Syracuse for this, and like, if you're I want to
know what he weighs in at the combine and then
we'll do the tight end rankings again.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
If he's a tight end but you need to play
tight end to.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Be I think that's a really good, like a really
good point because he's a guy that I think is
really interesting because he plays like a big slot outside
receiver type guy, but he looks like he's got enough
length to play in line. But they didn't ask him
to do it a time. So it's I think that's
a really good question because you have to have a floor.
If I'm gonna give you all these cool packages, you
have to be able to do like that's exactly right,
(18:46):
cut off on the back side or something like that.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
If you're just a slot receiver.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Okay, so I'm gonna rank you with you brought up
for Streppo Jalen Nol from Iowa State.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
It's a freak.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Yeah, Like, these guys are awesome. I want them in
my slot.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Even even Higgins from ia Was State might be a spot. Yeah,
it might be a big slot. The next that's the
type of athlete you're competing with. And I'm I love
tight ends. I'm a big tight end guy, but I'm
not going to put you on the field over one
of those players because they have so much more juice.
They can win a man man of situations.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
That's the problem. And then like when you look at
the Georgia Tech kid Hawes.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Love, dude, I love he don't even say one, don't
say one thing about him.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
You right now, I'm pretty jacked.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Right, dude, he's awesome because I want to take him.
I want to draft him as my tight end too
and be like, cool, now I have a sixth offensive lineman.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
S the commanders like John Bates, like, you need a
guy like that. It does so much for your run game,
does so much for your pass protection. He is he
is so committed to that and I love it, man,
I love watching.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
It fall in on it. I think he h this
happened with Tip Ryman last year.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Yes, like no one, no one cared about Tip and
I think he went in the third round and her
was like, oh God, like how did this?
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Like where did this come from? It's gonna happen with Hawes.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
So I have a lot of tight end coaches that
I still talk to in the NFL, and that is
when you talk to them about their lists. The main
difference between the composition of Nationalists is like, if dude
can block, they value him way more because they know
what it does to the floor of your offense. So
I think that's something that again, I think we it's
so fun to talk about the pass catcher, that dynamic guy.
Of course, you know, like Mason Taylor. I'm in on
(20:19):
him because he does stuff in line, you know what
I mean, Like, and he can do stuff in the
past game.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
So and that's why Warren's going to be a top
twelve pick.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
He is a freak, man.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
It's just different.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
He's a freak.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
It's different.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
I want you to talk about him for a second.
I've talked about him a lot.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
He's so fun to watch because it doesn't matter what
you ask him to do. I mean, he played quarterback
in high school, so then Penn State runs him in wildcat.
He looks pretty comfortable doing it. I think he's going
to be a Toush push cheat code at the next level.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
I'm like, oh, okay, so this is the next Toush
push cheat code when I watch him. But I asked
him about this, I'm like, dude, it just looks you
look more excited. He had a blockkinst Illinois two minutes
left in the game. I think it was fourth down.
It was this is game on the line. He blows
the linebacker off the all into the stands, running back scores,
Penn State wins the game. I was like, you look
ten times more excited by that than any other Playoff've
(21:06):
seen from you. And he's he's like, blocking is just
like what kind of gets him going. He's like, yeah,
in outside zone, He's like when I'm on the front side,
He's like, we call it getting the engine started, like
revving the engine, Like that's what kind of gets the
guy going, not the you know, eleven hundred receiving yards
or the He's just he's different like that where he
doesn't care how much he's involved in the box score.
(21:27):
He just wants to be in on every play with
physicality will come for him. I haven't landed one. He
likes shocky a lot.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Really, he and I looked.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
I was like, ah, yeah, I kind of want to
go there.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yeah, he loves shockey.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
I was talking to Jason about this. He kind of
reminds me it's probably the size, but like Rob Gronkountkowski,
that kind of like I'm always open. I'm a big body,
And I hate to make that comp.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Because everyone's afraid to do it because.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
He's like one of the best and he's not the
same guy, but they kind of win the same way.
They compete in line, like it could be special, So.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
He could be special, and I think the draftskin are
a that, Like, I just it's annoying because when you
put him in the top ten of a mock, everyone's
like a tight end, like and they just start like
throwing names in your face, and I'm like, do you
realize how multiple this guy allows an offense to be?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
I have a question for you. So I've always kind
of kicked back this idea of like having a guy
that could run like kind of like a toush push package,
but like be your short yardage quarterback, you know what
I mean, kind of like Taysom Hill. And I think,
imagine if he could steal a couple four downs for
you or third like third and two, like because I
can run a little zone read with them or you
know whatever.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
It looks like I don't.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Know, right, Pennce, they did it, Yeah, and nobody had
an answer. Yeah, So why is like And it's not
like why wouldn't work in the NFL?
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I mean, he's what sixty six two sixty dude.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
He's a big man, he's huge, carries it well, moves
well acceleration. I just you feel so good about him
as a player, Like if you if you shut down
the facility after Night one, of the draft in that
guy's come in to your facility to wear a uniform.
You're telling me you don't feel amazing the next day.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Can you talk about that for a second, because I
think everyone also talks about like upside.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
But also I.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Think when you're picking an the top ten, top fifteen,
there's a floor element that you're looking for. And I
feel like, just because I feel like he's got it,
is there anybody else in the draft you're like, this
guy's got that floor.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Oh, that's a good one. This year feels a little
bit harder like last year.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I it is.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
I have to think about this.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
I know we're kind of underwhelmed by his measurements, but
Mason Graham, the tape is the tape, Like he's gonna
come in and you play him at three tech and
you ask him to hold the point of attack. I
think there's more pass rush in him than people realize.
Like he's got pretty good hips at that size. The
size is a little weird here. I thought he'd be
over three hundred pounds, but he's so strong pound for pound.
I like the floor with him. I think Loveland has
(23:35):
a really good floor. He's bigger than I thought like
he We had him come over to the set and
I'm like, damn, he's over sixty five. I think he's
gonna play closer to two sixty than people realize. He
won't play there, but like people think he's two forty.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
How heavy was he?
Speaker 4 (23:48):
I think he was two fifty two?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Here, good for you man? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah with an injury?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Oh is he?
Speaker 5 (23:54):
I think there's a show. I think there's a shoulder.
I want to make sure I'm right about that.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Well, we're not gonna hold you to it, but yeah,
some kind of injury. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
So if it's number body injury and he's healthy and lifting,
is he not.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
To fifty six?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
To fill to realize it was that big? I didn't
either didn't look it on film. You moved so well.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
He's so smart as soon as the play breaks down too.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Who's the Titan for Michigan? By the way? For people?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Yeah, I do this way too much.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
I just think everybody lives in this sick world that
I live in, where they're like, who are these people?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Where they play?
Speaker 4 (24:19):
How do I watch them? It's a really bad habit.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
Trevor yells a not yells at me, but he's like
he's like reminding me all the time, like, hey, some
people have lives.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I get on Logan about it all the time. That's
why he just stated it. I tell him all the time.
You have to say what school we're at because our fans.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
I'm broken. I'm never gonna fix some Sometimes.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I don't know because he's further into the evaluation process
and yeah, so yeah, to tell me where they're coming from. Hey,
can you tell that Logan's passionate about tight ends?
Speaker 4 (24:45):
That's awesome. I love doing this show with you guys.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
It's like, honestly one of my favorites of the entire
year because it's the best tight end commedy get to have.
And we're gonna have too. I think both are going
Top fifteen, by the way, I hope.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
So, yeah, I bring make tight end great again. You
know I can't.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I give into here great for the DC market.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Thanks, I want to cut that.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
I think I came into here like I love him.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Will probably go with the Broncos at twenty and I'm
just I think I'm dead wrong, Like I think the
league just is, Like I think he's a better player
than that. But the whole tight end now, I think
they're both going top fifteen.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
He's a special player, special mover and if he's that big,
like he can do like do more stuff in line
of scrimmage. And dude, it's cool having two guys that
are this talented, you know, and then having the tail
end of the tight end draft be this talented also
is great. So it's gonna be a lot of fun
to watch these guys run today.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I have one more question before you leave.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
We kept you way too.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Long, sterilling.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
If you're the GM of the Commanders, what are you
doing at the late first round? What position do you
think is an area of need? You don't need to
give me a player name, but.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Can I mean, I'd like to see if you could
steal one of the tackles, right like, is one going
to fall?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
That's that's a big question for me too. You have
one that you liked there at twenty nine, you.
Speaker 5 (25:51):
Know what I like, And I know he had the
one better up in the Senior Bowl that goes viral,
which is done. Talked about that a lot, But yeah,
I like Connor le I like Connor Lely. I like
you can't teach that base, the explosiveness in the base,
but you could get him stronger.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Yeah, like I think you can get him stronger. He's
interesting to me.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
I thought the Ohio State tackle Simmons had it all
and that injuries, Like I just don't know right now
with that kind of injury, but I thought the six
games I watched, I was like, this is the best
tackle in the draft of he just kept playing football.
We feel the same way, yeah, I mean just different,
like you're not supposed to move like that at that side.
They're real tackles.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
The question is, yeah, do you think you think he's
going to be there? I mean, I obviously injury dependent,
but like I think one of the two will okay,
because I want to think if you're a Commander's fan,
just to give you some context, like both those guys
are excellent football players, and I.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Think they're really high floor.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Obviously the injury was Simmons is going to be a
big deal, but like high win healthy, very high four players.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
I agree, And you know what those kind of guys like,
they're real tackles. How many commos that we're going to
have the next two months is will Campbell tackle? Is
Banks to tackle from Texas? See I'm getting better at
it as we go.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
On the podcast.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Those guys are real tackles.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, thank you so much for coming on, Connor. I
love this conversation that you guys have, and tight end
is always a fun time for us because of the
logan ten years in the NFL. You don't get there
without knowing what you're telling you about, even I mean.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And a dog in the blocking game. Oh, I know,
I know.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Thank you so much for coming on, Connor. Where can
we find you?
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Yeah, everything on NBC Sports, the NFL on NBC YouTube channel,
all my interviews there, or you could listen to the
NFL Stock Exchange podcasts.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
All right, that's Connor Rogers.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
That was really great conversation with Connor Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Man. He's does such a great job of kind of
keeping track everybody in this draft class. And you know,
now that we've kind of got that high level preview
and now that we've watched those guys you know, on
the field today, I think it's good to kind of
recap what we saw in the drill work today and
kind of just say there's some guys that sit out.
These are some guys that he talked about that I
also thought set out. You know, he's really good at
his jobs, he was able to kind of preview some
of those guys for us.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
We're almost doing like a little bit of selfie vow
here because we just talked about those guys and what
we wanted to see and then we got to see it.
So who stood out then in the CBS for you?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, So I think the first guy, because again we
talked about nickel players, is Jahadae Barron from Texas, and
he stood out because he's his film is excellent. But
he ran a four to three nine at the combine today,
which is something that everyone was really excited about. Five
ten and three quarters one hundred and ninety four pounds,
you know, a little short in the arm length, but
he moved so well and the big knock on him
was speed. So to see him get out there today
(28:14):
and absolutely run fast was great for him. You know,
he's going to kind of play that branch role in
that Detroit defense and so he's going to be kind
of nickel safety hybrid type guy.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
He played outside at Texas.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Maybe a team feels comfortable putting outside now, but I
think his rever him will be on the inside. And
that leads us really nicely into Malachi Starks from Georgia.
I just thought he didn't run a forty today, but
just looked incredibly smooth, got out there and kind of
in the same role. Like you get these two really
high value players that kind of are this safety Nickel combination,
and you see why they have some of the best
(28:48):
film in the class. Like just the movement skills, the instincts,
the ability to change direction, all that stuff I thought
was was extremely high, a high level from both those guys.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah, in the middle of this, I actually texted Fred
Smoot and I was like, hey, Fred, who are the
three guys that you really like here? And he said, well,
obviously I like Travis Hunter, Will Johnson, who didn't do
anything today, which is totally fine. They're gonna do it
at there per day. But then he was said, well Starks, Ya,
Stark stands out to him.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
And Starts is one of the guys I've watched film
of and you know immediately is a guy that again
like talking about what Connor was discussing, the guy that
he's kind of a safety Nickel hybrid but can play
man to man coverage against the receiver, can fit a run,
just a really valuable piece chess piece for defenses and
especially the way people are playing defense. Now, I thought
he really so got so again those guys are kind
(29:34):
of two nickel players. The other guy that he mentioned
specifically is Marquise Single from Kansas State, and I had
never seen him before. But I do this thing where
I'm kind of going through the drills and I try
not to look at the names, and I just write
a check mark next to the name if I thought
it was good, and nothing if I thought it was poor.
And he was a guy that I have seven check
(29:55):
marks in my book next to him, they do about
seven drills.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So really really stuck out.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
And he's a safety kind of hybrid player, but I
thought he really looked ran a great forty.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
It was a four to four something like that four
four one.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
So just another guy that really did a great job
kind of again in that safety nickel hybrid kind of role,
did a fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
And what did you think overall about the movement skills?
Was there anybody that stood out? Anybody that was like
a little stiff like we did yesterday in our recap
of the guys, like who raised an eyebrow for you?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Good or bad?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
So I think the first guy I'll talk about two guys.
One is Max Harrison or Harston excuse me, from Kentucky.
And he did a great job today because I think
he was bigger than I thought he'd be. Was five
eleven and a quarter one hundred and eighty three pounds,
thirty one in arms, with the big kind of eye
popping number there was the four two nine. He ran
the fastest forty at the combine thus far. And then
(30:51):
so you say, alway, is he just a fast guy?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Right?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
But then you get him, see him out there in
the movement drills, and he's moving probably the best of
the group. So I mean, you expected a guy like
that to come out and do well, but I kind
of I wasn't sure about his body weight. Just for
him to come at one eighty three and run the
way he did, you know, again, not the biggest guy
in the whole world, but about six foot over one
hundred and eighty pounds run that four to two nine.
(31:13):
Just incredibly impressed with him. Another guy that I had
very little read on was a zab Frasier from Utsa
and he's six to two and h three eighths. He's
one hundred and eighty six pounds. He's got thirty two
and seven ancients arms, so thirty three in charms. Big
long corner had a thirty thirty six and a half
inch vertical and also ran a high fourth three. I
(31:36):
think it was a four to three nine four three
eight something like that. So I just guys that stood out.
And then in the drills he'd got a bunch of
check mark marks next to his game name two, so
really impressed. And then another guy just wanted to give
a shout out to real quick was Darren Porter from
Iowa State. You know, he's the biggest corner here. He's
six to two and seven eighths, he's one hundred and
(31:58):
ninety five pounds, he's got thirty three and one eighth
that's arms, and he ran a four three forty. Everyone
knew he's gonna run super fast, but you know, seeing
him in the drills, he's as a touch stiff. But
we saw that at the Cedar Bowl, we saw that
on film. So not nothing crazy, but to see a
man that big, that athletic, you know, I've heard a
lot of comps to him to like Tyreek wooland just
like a guy who's a converted wide receiver. He's a
(32:20):
guy to keep an eye on just and again, I
don't know what he's gonna because the stiffness seems to
be there for him. But to see a number like
that from a guy that size, it's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
What do you think of these guys that you saw
at DB's. Do you think that it's more I don't
want to say pressing, but where do you feel like
the need for the commanders would be. Is it more cornerback,
is it more free safety, strong safety? And then of that,
what guy do you think kind of fits with what
we currently have with Sanders, still with Lattimore and what
(32:51):
we have going on in the backfield.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
So I think there was a bunch of guys that
stood out to me today that were kind of like
maybe these slot kind of mixed guys, you know that
we were like, oh, hey, if Mikey wants to stay outside,
we could bring one of these guys in. We just
talked about Starks, We talked about you know, I forget
the other guy's name.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
We talked about it.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
It's not in my notes at the moment, but you know,
there's the Jabir Muhammad from Oregon is a smaller kind
of slot Nickel.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Type player, right, and he looked great.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
And then the same thing with Jalen Smith from USC
like and I think he could probably play outside, but
these are smaller corners, so I think for me, I
was kind of thinking about the bigger guys like Azure Thomas,
who you talked about raising an eyebrow. I was a
tick disappointed with his movement skills. I loved him at
the Senior Bowl. This film's good in man and man coverage,
but a little stiffer than I thought. So is he
quite as as scheme agnostic as I was hoping. I
(33:42):
don't know, but he's a guy that really stood out
in a in a positive way at the Senior Bowl.
Here it was a little bit more of a you know,
not quite the mover I was hoping for.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
But to me, that's the type of guy.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
That's why I brought up Darren Porter, these taller Zayer Fraser,
these taller, longer athletic guys. Trey Amos is another guy
from Old miss who I think deserves a shout out.
He didn't I don't think he ran a forty. If
he didn't know he did run a forty, it was
four to four. It was four to four on the
dot and look great in the move in the movement drills.
He's a guy that I do think the Washington Commanders
could potentially select at twenty nine. I'll be there at
(34:13):
the end of the first round. But if they don't
pick him, for example, some of those other names I
just mentioned are guys that maybe are there and they're
picking up the bottom of the second So I think
it was a It was a different group than I
was expecting overall. One that is talented, for sure, but
it's the talents different, and you got a bunch of
guys who like last year, I remember thinking, man, this
group moves so well, and I felt like there wasn't
(34:36):
that elite movement skill outside of a couple guys, and
was much easier kind of pinpoint those guys and say, hey,
these guys are are special athletes and but they need
some developmental work. I think was the thing that I
came out of it. I don't know how you felt
about it, Jason, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
I a little bit. I would say that like the
thing again, I've said this before several times, it's really
hard for me.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, to evaluate courts. That's really hard, especially here, like.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
If we're just talking about movement, like Maxwell looked great, right,
very good movement. The kid from Oregon, I'm blinking on
his name.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
You just said it, yeah, Mohammad.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, he looked great. A little small, but he moved
so well. So like we're talking about movement, those guys
moved really well. But then there was also like it's
I don't know how they fit right in schemes because
that's another big one and it's tough for just a
guy like me, is like, Okay, is he really good
at man? Is he really good at zoone? Is he
(35:33):
really good in the nickel? Like how does he fit
within the scheme that we have here with Joe Witt
and Dan Campbell? Like it's really you asked me that question.
Is really hard for me to kind of like answer,
how like that even fits when.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, look at it.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
And I also think it's important. We've watched some of
these guys, but definitely not all of them. And I
you know, I was talking to a scout no A
coach last night and he said, oh, I love coming
into the combine having watched no film of guys because
it's kind of like my jumping off for it. So
I feel like with this group, you know, I have
some takes on some of these guys, but some of
the guys we just talked about. But I'm definitely going
to go back and look at some of these players
(36:06):
that moved really well, like you know, Zariah Thomas, going
to watch more of him, Jalen Smith from USC because
of how he moved today. Darren Porter, I want to
see what that size look like when he's playing football.
Jamiir Muhammad is another one, right, Max Harston, want to
see what his film looks like.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Tire Fraser.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
You know, Trey Amos watched those guys Live and the
Living in Color because of how they did here and
then you can kind of compare them to the.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Rest of the class.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
But I also wanted to give two more guys a
shout out, just real quick. Yeah, Nick Annamari from South
Carolina looked like.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
An absolute freak show. Like look like an absolute freak
show today.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I mean, I told you I've had some issues with
this film because I just found out today that I
happened to watch the worst game of his career and
I was like, this guy's not Yeah, this guy's not
as good as I hope, but he looked like an
absolute monster. And then, gosh, there's one more guy that
I wanted to kind of say, did some good work
today if I can find him on my notes here, Oh,
(37:00):
Ryan Lane, the third from the Naval Academy. And again
I'm gonna go watch some Navy football after this. Just
looked the part, just looked the part of a safety
at the NFL level. And I think he's a guy
that I want to see how he plays ball, right
because all the movement stuff was great. Same thing with
Malik Vernon from Iowa State. He's a big guy, a
long guy, moved well in the drill. So you kind
(37:21):
of say, these guys are big, physical looking dudes we
watch more. But obviously nick Emmon Warry wins the day
because he runs four three nine, he's two hundred and
twenty two pounds, he has a forty four inch vertical
it's the third highest vertical for a guy over six
three at the combine. So definitely definitely won the day
in terms of combine athleticism.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
So let's move on to your favorite position, and that's
going to be tight ends. So I want you to
give me a big picture of what this tight end
class looks like and let's start off with some guys
that didn't test today, Tyler Warren being the big one,
Colson Loveland didn't test.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
A couple other guys from Miami.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Elijah Royo, Brian Keith from Utah end test, Luke Lackey.
He did field work but didn't do a forty. Taylor
Mason didn't do a forty. And it was interesting because
you're kind of come into this event and everyone's telling
you how deep the classes, right, the class is so
so deep, there's so many good players. And I do
(38:19):
think that's true. I think Colson Lovelin's a beast. I
think Tyler Warren's a beast. I think Elijah Royo is
a beast. The problem was is, like, then when you
get after that and you see the group without those
guys in it, the rest of the guys running forties,
the rest of the guys running routes, and you're kind
of like, actually, who would you draft to be a
difference maker outside of those three? And that was the
(38:42):
thing that really stuck out to me. Obviously Taylor or Mason. Taylor,
excuse me's getting a lot of hype. I think his
role at the next level is going to be interesting
because he didn't run super fast, doesn't catch the ball
super well. He's a good football player, so don't get
me wrong. If the commander's draft, then might be stoked
because he's tough, he's competitive, all those things, but you know,
is he a true f Like probably not right, And
(39:02):
then you're kind of like, who else are we looking at?
Harold Fannon didn't run as well as I thought he
was going to run to day, he ran a four
to seven. I thought he'd be a four to six,
four to five kind of guy. So can he be
an inline player? And like we were talking about with
Connor today, like you have to do a little bit
of stuff in line, and that's really not Harold Fannon's.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Cup of tea.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
So the list gets really, really short. And then Aronde
Gatzen I thought looked great in the drill and the
field movement stuff, but didn't run a forty So how
fast are you?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Really?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Can you be a true move piece that can win
versus man and man coverage kind of like your Jordan
Reid player, And all of a sudden you're like, well,
if the commanders are picking it too or in the
second round. Who's the guy they would select there? And
to me, it's Terence Ferguson, the guy.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
That yeah, and full disclosure, you did some work get ready.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
And but here's the thing. He was to Bella the
ball and like, even though you may be a little biased,
like fastest forty of the tight ends today was a vertical,
very explosive, very small. I don't think anybody is going
to come away from what we saw in the field
and not say this guy stood out.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, And that's one of the benefits of you know,
being able to work with these young talented guys, Like
is you know you ran a four to six three
and he's over six five, he's over two hundred and
forty pounds, he has a thirty nine and a half
inch vertical like he's a special athlete. And then to
see him move and run routes compared to the other guys,
I thought was was special today. And I'm not saying
this as a way to hype up Terrence, And obviously
(40:27):
I want to hype up because I worked with them.
But the thing is is, like I just named potentially
five guys that'll go ahead of them, right. Two A
goal in the first round, Mason Taylor and Elijah Arroyo, right,
And so I think Elijah Royo is going to go
at the top of the first round. I think Mason
Taylor maybe mid to late, and then Terrence is the guy.
(40:48):
And so if you want a guy who can catch
the football, compete in line. I'm just saying it gets
a little thin after that if you say those other
five guys go ahead, because because I do think that
when you look at Harold fannin junior and produced today
the way he wanted and the reason I point him out,
small school guy at Bowling Green played basically wide receiver,
a version of wide receiver for them, and so you're saying, well,
(41:10):
he's got to be like a big slot at the
next level, be like your Dalton kid Kaid, and he
just didn't run the way that I thought he would run.
And then Gadson, like we just talked about, very very similar,
didn't run at forty today. So I do think while
those guys will probably be third round selections, I think
because of Terrence's production today, he becomes that guy that
you say, hey, if we want a guy to develop
(41:30):
behind zach Ertz, maybe this is the move here for
the Washington Commanders.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Yeah, and he's a weapon from Oregon. I don't know
if we say that. Ye, yeah, from the Oregon Ducks.
And he had forty three receptions this year, five hundred
and ninety yards, three touchdowns, and like that's consistent year
before forty forty two receptions, sorry, six touchdowns. And I
don't want to say his best game because it was
his best gaming yardage, but he showed up in the
last game that Oregon played and that was against Ohio
(41:56):
State ended up being the national champions in the playoffs.
So like he's also is a big game player. Yeah, right,
Like there's a lot to like from him in like
you said, not the first round, like where he might
end up being in. How do you think, like what
do you think the Commanders need with a tight end
with what they've currently got.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, So I think that's the thing that keeps coming
to mind and why guys like Arroyo and Terrence and
some of these other move types of pieces are so
interesting is I just look at what Zach did last
year and how incredibly special he was. Like people I
think are taking for granted how well he played Zach
Eritz played last year. Oh yeah, over seventy catches. His
production on first down, the amount of touchdowns he had,
(42:37):
it's such a big chunk of the offense. And you
see how dynamic you can be when you have a
playmaker like that at the position. And so I think, yeah,
bring Zach back this year. You know, obviously I'm not
telling Adam Peters what to do, but I would assume
that's something that they're definitely kicking the tires on. But
you need to make sure you have someone a young
piece kind of waiting in the wins a wings. And
I'm not saying that's not Ben Sinitt, but when you
look at how Ben Sinnett does stuff and how Zach
(42:59):
does stuff, different players, So one of these players we
just talked about is maybe slightly more similar. A guy
that can win versus man can run a more diverse
route tree. And that's where I'd say, like, that's kind
of what you're looking for, is a someone who can
do what Zach does. Standing up in a two point
gets you gives you enough in the in line, right,
but the two point red zone Manda man winning stuff.
(43:20):
And I think, like I just pointed out, even though
this is kind of reported to be a very deep
tight end class, and there are guys that you want
to be a part of your organization, part of your program.
The difference makers, I think, are guys that'll go for
sure in the first three rounds and they really really
good ones will probably go in the first two.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, this was a lot of fun. Tomorrow's the big day,
I would say. I mean, O line is one of
the bigger for us, but tomorrow's the big day for
the fans. Is wide receivers, it's quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
There'll be a ton of people here.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Yeah, there will be a ton of people year, so
make sure you tune in for after that, we will
break all that down like how we did last year.
Hopefully get some more fireworks. Like breaking the record was
so cool and so much fun. I remember watching Joe
Milton throw the ball like it just crazy stuff. Anthony
richardson that one. Yeah, it was so much fun to watch.
So we'll break it down. It's a lot of fun.
(44:12):
But uh yeah, So thanks to Connor Rogers for joining
the show, Thank you guys for listening, and logan that's it.
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