Logan Paulsen and JAG Jason are at Day One of the 2025 NFL Combine and they are talking Defensive Linemen. They debate the importance of measurements and performance at the Combine vs Pro Day. Next, they look at the top prospects in this class and if their draft stock when up or down today. Finally, they look into who deserves a raised eyebrow and needs to be given a deeper look into their film.
Hosts: Logan Paulsen, JAG Jason
Producer: Jason Johnson
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On today's episode of Ticket of the Draft podcast, we
are live from Indianapolis. We're doing the Combine and it's
defensive ends, defensive tackles today. The freakiest dudes you're ever
gonna see. Big movers, heavy guys, fast guys, guys that
can jump out the gym. They're all here. We talk
about who their dudes were, the guys that we expect
to go top twenty. Did they disappoint I don't think so.
(00:20):
And then guys that bade us raise an eyebrow. Hey,
we got to go back and watch them film in
a bad way and in a good way. It all
starts right now. We were committed to a good draft podcast.
I'm Logan Paulson here with Justin Guy, Jason and Jason.
We are at the Combine Indianapolis. We just spent how
(00:42):
many hours we spent three four hours watching drills, kind
of getting the full combine experience, which is one of
the things that is crazy when I look back on
how much time we actually spent in the stadium watching drills.
But it's also one of the things. One of the
reasons we're here and one of the reasons we're psychopaths
about the draft.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah. I mean, this is a thing that we keep
doing over and over again. So I guess it's the
definition of insanity for us. But you know what, we
just love football, and uh, I love this process. The
Combine's a lot of fun. The city is great and
the stadium's beautiful. Like, they do a really good job here,
so like I never feel like, oh my gosh, I
need to get out of here right like, and by
(01:19):
the way, we've been there for five hours.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Said you said two or three or three or five, it's.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Been five and so we watched a lot of defensive
line today and which is a really fun group. And uh, logan,
but tell me, like about the I don't want to
say the importance of the combine. A lot of people
know what the importance is. Tell me, like, what is
the purpose of the combine when you're scouting?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, so I think when you're scouting obviously, Like we've
talked about this a bunch of times on the Command
Center podcasts on I think probably this podcast last year.
But you know, the reason you come to the combine
is for the meetings. Obviously we are not privy to
those meetings. The next thing would be medical. We are
not privy to medical right, So those are the kind
of the two main ones that that I think teams
are here for. They want to get to know the guys.
(02:04):
You know. Dan Quinn talked about finding commanders as opposed
to finding players, and I think.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, good players here, but there's not a lot of
commanders and that's who we're looking for.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, So I think like that's that's where that that
interaction happens in those meetings. I will say, the reason
that we are here is to kind of get every
bit of information that we possibly can, right, and that's
what ultimately the combine is. Right. It's basically like if
you see a guy who you think is explosive and fast,
do they test explosive and fast? You know, like James
Pierce Junior is a great example of that today. You know,
(02:34):
he runs the four four seven, four four eight, whatever
it is. He's got a good vertical jump, got a
good broad jump. He weighs in nice, he looks great
in the field where he moves around the way he
expect So there's no surprises. What you saw in the
film is what you saw in the field, and that's
exactly what you're hoping to do. Is racially say this
is what I think the guy is. Is there anything
in this drill work that would give me pause, question
(02:54):
or concern about that stuff? So that's really what I
use this for. And obviously there's some guys that surprise,
some guys that disappoint, and then that's when you kind
of got to go back and say, I got to
reevaluate whatever's going on here.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Right, Yeah, like you said, some guys can surprise too.
It's like when you were talking about James Pearce, it's like,
oh my gosh, he's explosive. It's validating everything on the film.
But then at the same time, you can watch another
guy and I think, like Jack Sawyer from a state
for you, you were just mentioning there man, and you
were like, man, I need to go back and rewatch
because I'm seeing things here that I didn't see in
film or maybe I miss And that's like the positive
(03:27):
that comes from the combine, right.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, absolutely, And so you know Jack saw didn't run,
he didn't run Afford, he didn't jump, he didn't do
any really anything other than the measurements in the field work.
But like when you see him move around, you kind
of get what people are talking about he's like a
natural athlete. He tracks the football well. When they do
ball drills, like that's a kind of the end of
the defensive line drills. They do some defensive end drill.
Excuse me, is they do some kind of spot drops
(03:51):
to kind of stimulate what they would be doing at
the NFL level. And he tracks the football well, he's
got nice fluid hips. You're like, oh, well, maybe I
didn't give him enough credit. But to that same point,
like we're talking about our measurement earlier, and like that's
something that was really surprising in a negative way for him.
So you yeah, I think it was. It was thirty
one and three quarters or inches. So like usually you're
(04:11):
looking for defensive linemen with thirty three as a minimum threshold.
And we had a really cool demonstration today, you know,
of a of a product that's here in where are we, Indianapolis,
And they were showing like kind of thresholds for arm
length for positions. And you know, there's a reason that
you know, teams have a threshold of thirty three inches
for defensive linemen because those guys tend to play in
(04:34):
the NFL longer. And like this is this graph kind
of showed that out. So when you see something like that,
you're like, he's gonna have a hard time dealing with
the length and athleticism of NFL tackles. So can he
be as effective as he was in college? So even
though he's a decent athlete, decent mover, it's kind of like,
that's something else you got to look at, and that
that arm length is something that to me shows up
on film, and so it does validate what I'm saying,
(04:54):
But I also want to make sure that I go
back and look and say, hey, you know, maybe these
athletic traits translate to a different type of system where
he's he's dropping more, he's in space a little bit more.
Maybe he could be kind of a space playing end
in a way, and that would fit his skill set
a little bit better. But that's something that again it
makes me go, hey, if you go back and give
him a little bit more benefit of the doubt there, Yeah,
(05:16):
And I.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Wouldn't be producer of me if I just said, man,
we love football so much, we got right into it,
but let's pump the brakes for one second and let
people know what we're going to do on this show.
What we're going to do on the show is we're
going to talk about the defensive line that we watched
today immediately after the combine. We walked over from the stadium,
sat down here, so it's fresh in our minds. What
we're going to do is we're going to tell you,
like some guys that like these are just they're the
(05:37):
cream of the crop. They're the dogs that are there.
They're the dudes like everything that happened here supports the film.
They're gonna be top picks. And we'll talk about one
guy real quick, I'm going to put you on the
spot for that wasn't here. And then we're going to
talk about guys that are like what we saw here
is either going to raise their stock or kind of
raise an eyebrow for you, like, ah, something here doesn't
(05:59):
line up with what I saw, And we're going to
just kind of talk through those things. So we already
kind of did that with Jack Sawyer, right, like the
little eyebrow raise, Like things I'm seeing here don't line
up a film. That's why we go back and reevaluate.
That's why we got so much time between Senior Bowl
and then here and then the draft. But I want
to start out with the dogs, the guys, the top
ones that we know are going to go high, and
(06:21):
the biggest one is up Duel Carter on our Top
ten Defensive Edge podcast, he was your number one and
he's not here or he wanted to be here. He
mentioned at one point that he wanted to participate, but
then was like, ah, I'm not going to because of
my shoulder. I played hurt with it at the end
of the year. I'd like it to get back, better,
back and better. My film speaks for itself. And then
(06:44):
there's information that a medical comes out that he's got
something with his foot, not one hundred percent sure what
it is. Maybe it needs surgery, maybe we don't know.
We're all speculating here. But now he's not doing anything.
He's kind of disappeared that what do you think, like
when something like that sneaks up and an event like
the combine for a guy like him, does does he
(07:07):
drop now?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I don't think so. I mean, I think I think
it's definitely a talking point, right, I think, you know,
he came here to do the medical, he came here
to do the interviews, and we talked about why the
medical is so important. The foot thing comes up in
the medical you know what I mean there, and so
I think, like that's he was here, and I think
he'll he's going to be healthy enough to do his
PRODA And I think as long as he's able to
do something where he moves around for teams, I think
(07:31):
everything's going to be totally fine because everything else besides
the foot seems like.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
It's copas coming up too, So he'll be fine there.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah, And so I think that that's where. Yeah, I
think that's going to be a lot of news. Right,
But again this is it's important when you hear stuff
like that to keep the combine in its proper place
in the evaluation process. Right. So, like people are going
to say, oh, that's going to drop him, But he's
got tremendous film, the best film maybe in the entire class.
He might be the number one player him or Travis
Hunter in this draft, depending on who you talk to, right,
(07:59):
And so he is a special, special football player. And him,
you know, having a slight medical red flag and it's
not even a red flag. He has an injury that
needs to get resolved. He's gonna get it fixed. It's
gonna be fine, it's not a detrimental injury. Yeah, it's
say it's honestly the same thing Jishn Newton had last year, right,
and so they've been able to identify it ahead of time,
and so he's gonna be able to get the surgery
(08:20):
or not surgery, do whatever he needs to do to
make sure he's ready to go for the season. So
I don't think it's going to freak anybody out. And
he sounds like he's taking care of it. So I again,
remember what this is for, right, this is for kind
of your It's to accent things you already know or
make you question things already know. And so we knew
about the shoulder. The foot thing is a little bit
of a surprise, but it's not like a long term
(08:41):
deleterious thing. I think it's gonna be totally fine for
Abdual Carter. But to kind of piggyback off that point,
you know, Mason Graham doesn't really do anything today, no running,
no jumping. He does measure in a little bit smaller
than everybody thought. He's six', two he's two ninety. Five
he was listed at three twenty in. College he's got
thirty two inch, arms, Right he's he.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Could be slimming down for like a forty time with
a pro day or.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So but that's a lot of weight to slim, down,
RIGHT i.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Mean but, Fighters, Look i'm just Being devil's at the
fighters do.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Right there's walking around weight and then there's fighting, weight
and those are two different, things and they can be
twenty pounds thirty pounds.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Different, yeah BUT i think when we saw him do
his interview today and he's standing next to the, reporter
he doesn't he doesn't look like that big. Frame you, know.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
He doesn't stand out when you just look at him
with that, group.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
AND i will say his, film he stands out on. Film, yeah,
Right but it. Does it does change the perspective on
the film when you see a guy who's got suboptimal arm,
length he's got suboptimal body, weight he's got you, know
he doesn't do any running or jumping. Events so it.
Does that does to me calling to a question a
little bit more of the film because you're, like, OH
i thought he was three twenty moving around like, that
and now he's two ninety. Five the movement skills make more.
(09:47):
Sense can he kind of play with that same strength
at THE nfl, ever where he's playing against, bigger, stronger faster,
guys AND i think he. CAN i Love Mason. GRAHAM
i think his film's.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Excellent gon do you don't think he's gonna drop or.
ANYTHING i think he. Might here may be a team
that's like, eh SO i think.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
He goes from like a surefire top five to probably
a sure fire top. Ten you, KNOW i think some
team says and.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The combine really do that doesn't have that much.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Weight it's more it just brings up a, question, Right
it just brings up a. Question and the question here
was LIKE i thought this guy was three hundred and twenty,
pounds he's. Not he's three ninety. Five he's got short,
arms and when you look at the history of defensive
lineman with short arms at that body, weight the success
is not, immediate, Right it's not the same impact. Stuff,
now he's a special football. Player came and started as
(10:31):
a freshman At, michigan like he started for the last three.
Years he's been physically dominant against the best, teams the
best best teams in college. Football, so, like his resume is,
awesome but it does just add a little bit of a.
QUESTION i do think there are teams that will take
him off their board because of the arm leng. Thing,
right there's a reason teams have minimal, threshold minimum. Threshold
it's like there's a Reason jacksonville drafted A walker Over,
(10:53):
hutchinson right Because hutcherson had thirty two inch arms and
it didn't meet their minimum arm threshold for an edge
rusher in THE. Nfl so that is. Something, now that's
a silly, thing, RIGHT i think it's, silly like if
the guy can, play he can. Play but teams do
have those minimal minimum thresholds for a.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Reason, Yeah SO i wanted to ask you about. THAT
i want to poke at, that a little poke at
it BECAUSE i kind of feel, like and this is
just this is not based on. Anything this is just
kind of an observation as just a. Guy is THAT
i feel like THE nfl right now is kind of
bucking trends in a way when it comes to example
quarterback and the size of a, Quarterback like look At
(11:28):
Bryce young and look at Like Dylan gabriel who's in,
now like wide, receiver look At Tank dell and look
At Tes. Johnson that's going to be a team is
going to draft a guy who is in a very
low percentile. Height, wait and it used to be, well
you can't do, this he can't do, that he can't do,
this And Bryce young struggled to, start but he ended
the year pretty. Well and, like so my point is is,
(11:51):
like maybe there's other factors that can go in to
where it's, Like, okay he's five, eleven but maybe you
can still play quarterback because he's so talented. Here and it's,
LIKE i guess there are exceptions to the. Rule i'm
not saying that rules are getting thrown out the, window
But i'm saying that more teams are willing to take
a chance on the.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
EXCEPTION i think that's one hundred percent. Right BUT i
think it's important to remember we talked about this all the.
Time the draft is about mitigating, risk and so some
teams are not okay with the risk associated with, outliers
especially big. Outliers And i'm not saying, that you, Know
Mason graham's an, outlier but he's, shifted like the bucket
that he's in has. Shifted he was, this he was
(12:32):
six y, four he was three, twenty and everyone assumed
with that heighten that, weight he would have at least
thirty three inch. Arms now he's six two AND i
think six two and a, half he's two ninety. Five
he's shrunk significantly and he's got on the shortest side of.
Arms so, again he's a tremendous football. PLAYER i think
he's gonna be fine THE. NFL i don't have any
problems drafting, him BUT i would be willing to best Where,
(12:53):
yes now all of a, sudden now there's a little
bit more risk associated with the, pick and there's other
picks that are less risky because of because they fit
those traditional. Molds and, again this not an indictment of
him as a football. Player his film is, awesome but
remember there is a little bit of a projection to
the next, level and when you don't have some of
these ideal, sizes especially on the offensive, line it really
(13:13):
shows up with offensive defensive. Lineman LIKE i think there
WAS i think The athletic did a study recently where they, said,
like who are the starting offensive tackles with arm length
shorter than thirty three? Inches AND i think they could
only come up with five guys in the last five.
Years so, like there's a reason that that those are
metrics and they're a.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Thing they're, okay, Sorry i'm just devil's avage.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Confirmation, YEAH i think.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That but also like if teams are like if they
have this set in their, mind like if it's universal
across THE nfl in a way where like our threshold
is thirty four, inches then we're just not drafting as
many thirty four guys with less than thirty four, Inches
so that aggregate is not even in. There but that's
not everybody, is, okay so tell me.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
How but that's not true. THOUGH i think a good
example that's here In, washington, right we Draft Sam, cosby
WHO i thought was a very athletic offensive lineman in.
College he had the number ONE ris score for offensive
lineman his year coming out Raw athletics scorer AS ras
and they let him play. Tackle they played right tackle
for a couple like a year right When ron first
drafted him, here AND i think you could see his
(14:15):
limitations from a length standpoint very early. On obviously tremendous,
footwork tremendous, balance but the length kind of ate him
up and then he him in a guard and he's.
Fine so, people, yeah he's a.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Fantastic, yeah better than.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Fine people still draft offensive lineman with thirty two in.
Charms it's just it's like a natural selection process on
the offensive. Line there's other positions where this is not as, important,
right but it does tend to weed those guys out
of those. Positions Alex kappa is one of the best
guards in THE. Nfl he started his career at tackle
for The New England patriots and eventually he just weeds
down and becomes the guard because that's where the more
(14:49):
natural fit. Is he's still a good offensive, lineman he's
still valuable to your. Team it's just that length variable
for tackle is incredibly. Significant so that's why for, tackle
for defensive, linemen those length, measurements because you're dealing with
these big, bodies these big. Athletes it's. Significant so not always.
Right so like The Tes johnson, THING i think it's
a really interesting, conversation which we'll talk about probably more with.
(15:12):
RECEIVERS i think you can find a role for, Him.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah thank. You we'll definitely talk about him On.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Saturday, yeah BUT i think you can find roles for
guys like. That, Yeah because it's becoming a space. Game
so the, length the, size the physicality is slightly less
of you can mitigate. It, yes you can mitigate it
with offensive, line especially with how much you're throwing the. Football,
now it's very hard to.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Mitigate so then we talked about offensive. Line but let's
move back to. Defense and like one of the reasons
that these guys are, dogs they're that dude's at the
top and the combine supports. That, here like one of
those guys With Shamar, stewart The edge From TEXAS a AND.
M because he looks fantastic on film and then he
measures well here he's. Explosive well here everything he didn't do,
(15:51):
drills but everything's lining up. Right so that's where it's, like,
okay so he's fitting into all these thresholds we have
and he looks.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Good, Yes so so the thing with him is THAT
i would say his film does not always support the
athlete that he measured.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
At.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
RIGHT i think that's the thing With, Samar like you,
know you know, me like look at, Me, Jason LIKE
i Love Shamar, Stewart, Right I'm i'm his number one.
Fan but he only had one and a half sacks last, Year,
right he only had one and a half sacks the
year prior to. That in twenty twenty, Three so.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
CAN i throw something out here if you're gonna watch him.
Again one of the REASONS i think he had only
one and a half sacks is because he looks like
He's i'm trying to think of like an analogy for.
It it's like my dog WHEN i have a treat
AND i throw it up in the air and she,
like there's you can see it in her. Mind she
(16:40):
loses her mind for a. Second it's, like oh my,
gosh there's a, truck and like her coordination just. Goes
AND i feel like that's kind of what he. Is
he is such a wild. Man he gets there so
fast and he gets so excited that like his technique
just somewhat. Goes he had so many near, sacks so,
many and it's one of those things where like if
(17:01):
he can just if a coach can just grab him
and be, like hey, man let this slow down for
you when you get. THERE i think it's that one
and a half could easily have been seven or eight
because he had a lot that were right. There.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, NO i totally, agree, Man AND i think that's
the thing about, im like twenty one years. Old it's
the thing he's. Young he's like he's the classic like defensive,
line what do we talk about defensive, lineman production and.
Athleticism if you're a freak, athlete we can make it,
work especially if you're a pretty good run defender in.
College and he's a great he's a monster and he
plays hard as all. Outdoors so, yeah when he, RUNS
i think it was a four, four five or six.
(17:36):
Something i've got it on my little handy dandy thing over.
Here i'll look it up in a. Second but the
thing is is, that like he's got the, Armlength he's
got thirty four and one eighth inch. Arms he weighed
in it to sixty, seven he's six.' five he's got
everything you. Possibly want. He had the broad jump was.
Tremendous today vertical jump was. Forty, inches, like.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah his broad jump was the Same As exavior worthy.
Last year so a guy that's he was what one eighties?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Something, like no he was one.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Sixty seven, oh yeah, you're right, much smaller. Much smaller
he's at the. Inner act but if he's able to,
jump that And then schamar comes in here at the
size that he is, sixty six what did he.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Weigh in here to sixty seven to, sixty.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Seven like a little smaller than what he was listed,
in college but probably slimming down to run, this forty
but like to be able to jump That With xavier worthy, is,
explosive explosive.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And so he did everything you want him to. Do
today so he's he's, the, dude right he's a he's a.
Physical freak he does everything, you WANT and, i think
like that's why he'll probably go, TOP fifteen i, would.
ASSUME right i think someone sees that and says that's
too good to, pass up especially given his film is
not the production's, not there, but again the, work ethic
the dog mentality is. Totally THERE so i think like
HE'S he's i think there's a lot of people That
(18:49):
say Land and jackson won the, combine TODAY and I
think Land and jackson had a. Great Day But shamar stewart,
to me was the one that kind, of, said hey
because he didn't run.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
The, Drills yees stewart didn't run, the drill So and. Jackson,
Did YEAH and i think that. That's why and by,
the way we're Talking about jackson Who's.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
From, Arkansas yeah Land and Jackson, from arkansas and he
had a tremendous. Day too he came in a little
bit lighter than he was At The. Shrine bowl HE
was i think he was six five and three quarters
and he was two hundred and sixty seven, pounds also
but had a forty and a half, inch vertical had
a ten to nine, broad jump which is a little
shorter than some mars but and he ran a four six.
(19:26):
Eight forty so like for a guy that's kind of, this, big,
hulking bruising hard nose edge shetting, defensive end those are
tremendous explosive measurements AND so i think to see, him
again he's a little. BIT stiff i think that shows
up in the, drill work but he doesn't bother me
because THAT'S what i knew he was as, an, Athlete
right but to see him, move around to see, the
physicality see, the, leadership like he had a, tremendous day
(19:46):
and so, to Me he's Him and schamar are like
two of my favorite players in, this draft right because they,
play hard, they're big, physical guys and so like they
came OUT and I think shamar did EXACTLY what i
expect him to do And landed jackson kind of exceeded expectations,
quite honestly BECAUSE he i didn't think he was that,
explosive basically and so to see him have that level
of twitch and movement was.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Incredibly impressive he also Looks like James, BOND villain i
says it sometimes every time he, Pops up, i'm like
he looks like he just wants on. To die so
another guy that KIND of i want to bring Up Is.
Mike green because he didn't. PARTICIPATE here i think that's.
A choice i don't know that there's any injury or anything,
(20:28):
like THAT so i think it's a choice right as
Far AS i'm. I know so why do you think
he chose not to? Do it do you think that helps?
Or hurts because all the other top end Guys, except
carter who said he would have if it wasn't for.
His injuries do you think that's a wise choice to
just let's.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Just talk through it. Real Quick so carter didn't, Do It,
abdill carter the two guys from my house state didn't
run their forties or do any. Explosive, measurements obviously say
did The Field jack sawy did the field work for
my house date defensive end number. Thirty Three tom malau
did not, you know he didn't do, Anything here, so
again like there are guys that didn't do a whole lot.
(21:04):
Of Stuff, kenneth grant the defensive Tackle, for michigan also didn't.
Test here he measured and all that kind. Of Stuff
So mike green kind of followed that. Same MODEL and
i think now with the way the, combine's going if
you're not going to run, fast here don't run like
your agent's so locked in with, your trainer they know
exactly what you're. Gonna run if you're not going to run,
fast here and you have an opportunity to run at
(21:25):
your prode, save it run at YOUR prote i am a.
Little bit it's a little bit concerning. With, him again
his film, is awesome but it's against lower, level competition
so you're always kind, of like how does? This translate and, he,
says oh look at the dominant reps he had At The.
Senior bowl and we've talked about this before in, the
show like he had one dominant rep but a lot
(21:45):
of other reps that were just kind of if you
didn't know That Was, mike green you wouldn't be hyping, it,
up right AND so I think i need to see
a little bit more of that high athletic upside. From
him AND so i was really hoping he'd come, in
shouody run, four five seven and, take us take us,
spikes off walk in the. Locker room all questions, are answered, jump.
(22:06):
High whatever but he's not gonna, do that and so
he might be not happy with. His training they're, gonna
wait they'll do it At the. Marshall protate but it
does kind, of say like, for me And again i'm just,
One person like That's something i'm gonna be watching very
closely as we get closer to the draft because if
you are not your build as a top flight, pass
rusher if you're not a top flight, pass rusher like
your explosive measurements are, not good your forty is. Not
(22:29):
good and, BY forty i mean like your ten yards
split is not is not a good ten. Yard split
so it's not one five.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
To five why does ten yard split matter for?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
An edgeraction it MATTERS because i think it shows kind
of that horizontal propulsion that's required for, getting Sacks Like
dan quinn talked about in this pressure the, other day
the local scrum that he did With like Jpe And
sam fortyer basically, SAYING like i want the guy that
can beat you to. The spot those guys With Like
chop robinson, Last, year, like yeah not the most refined,
pass rusher but he's got this.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Trump crossis ten. Yards.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Split, yeah ever yeah for a guy over two hundred and, fifty,
Pounds right and so he can beat you to. The
spot and that's always going to stress the. Offensive, line
mean even if you're not that. Technically sound so, with him,
You Know, mike green he's very technically sound as a,
pass rusher but you still need that ability to stress
these guys that are these, left tackles these right tackles
that are, six six they got thirty four inch arms
and they move like. Basketball players like you just need.
(23:18):
That ability and so when You See shamar stewart, do
it when You see Land and jackson, do it these
guys that were kind of lesser athletes, quote unquote like
their answering the bell from a physicality and. Mentality Standpoint
but i'm Not Saying mike. Green won't, but again you
know his arms are thirty two inches a little on the.
Short side that's, not fatal but these are all things where,
you're like show me that you belong here from an,
(23:38):
athletic standpoint, And again. I'm disappointed he's got to do
what's right, for HIM and i think. DEFINITELY does i
think this is what's right. For Him but i'm Going
to i'm paying attention and we're going to talk. About
it when he runs, A forty we're going to talk
about it on.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
This, show yeah it's almost like the less he starts
to do because. He didn't he stopped After The. Senior
bowl he's not doing much At, The kammain so it's
it's almost like he and it's almost like he's he's kind, of, like,
OH okay i got this allure around me, right now
So like i'm not going to mess. With THAT like
i have a positive vibe, going ON so i don't
(24:12):
want to do anything to screw. THAT up a part
of me, is like that's. Really smart that's a really smart.
Business decision your agent's telling you to. Write thing another part,
of me and maybe this IS because i just want
the content RIGHT and i want to. Watch it another
part of me, is like, all right, what's, Wrong man
like where's your competitive drive and? Competitive needture but, THEN
again i don't want to mess with this, guy's.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
MONEY right i think that's the other thing, is, Like
Uh malik williams did not run, a, forty right and
he's THE guy i want's talk. About him is the
high freak upside that's going to break into the, top
fifteen maybe top ten as. A player like those are.
Big decisions so it wasn't just him that wasn't, Doing
IT but i do think there's more questions about him
because the level. Of competition so that's Something that i'm
(24:53):
just kind of trying to pay. Attention to, and again
where there's a lot of guys that didn't, do IT
and i think that's totally fine coming off a long,
football season it might not be. Totally healthy you just
Talked about I'd do carter with, The shoulder like it's
not a criticism, of him but it just does raise
a question because the level of competition that he played
Against at Marshall whe, YOU'RE like i want that data point, for,
Something right but, THEN again i go Back To. DRAKE
(25:13):
london i know we're talking about, Receivers Now drake lundon
never ran a forty, coming OUT and i, WAS like
i need to see him run. A, forty yeah but
he's been FINE, the nfl like because he's just a good.
Football player so this might be just, you KNOW my
nfl traditionalism TELLING me i need to see SOMETHING that
i don't need. To see the film's, good enough for sure.
IT is i can't shake it from the back of.
My mind there is.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Something about the keep, them guessing or like if you don't,
see it then you don't know that, It's bad like
you can always just like you KNOW what, i mean
it's not confirming, something's bad Not That drake london would
have had a. Bad forty people can sometimes say, oh
well like a lot, of media a lot of PODCASTS
that i, listened to, they'll, say, oh well he needs
to come out and he needs to run this. Time
(25:52):
right and then, it's, like Well if i'm not going to,
do that and you've already set this arbitrary approach mark
for no reason like that, YOU created i, Didn't create
no one created you created it, The media, so like
WHY would i do that? To myself? The issue AND
so I Get mike green. WITH that i think the
Thing With mike green that's a little interesting is that
there's a lot. Of those, for me there's.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
A lot of like, you're saying the level, of competition
It's The, senior blie.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
It's just a bunch of yeah after only one, big
play and like it's just it's just a lot of,
those boxes not. Just one it's not just, a forty
it's not, Just this it's not just that Like a
tovandre sweat, last year right At The, senior bowl he didn't,
weigh in and it, was like how big is? This
dude and a part of it, Was, Like hey i'm going,
(26:39):
To play i'm, Gonna hustle I'm gonna i'm gonna do
everything but give you, my weight keep you guys, Guessing
right and there was something about THAT that i kind
of liked because it's Like just i'm going to check off.
Every box so if this is the only box you,
care about.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Then fine and then he did win the combine gave.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Himself Time So mike green, has time he has. Pro
day there's a lot of time between now and. The
DRAFT and I Like mike green. A LOT remember i
calmed Them The Bruce, LAE like i think this dude.
Is awesome i'm. Just curious i'm really curious. About HIM
and i really wanted to see him today go uh
not up against but, you know in the same line
and watch. Him go it is Too Especially James pierce
(27:21):
Junior the Edge, from tennessee because, to me they play
kind of the same in the same kind, of.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Bill they play kind of, The same they got the
same kind, of, juice seemingly, YOU know I Think mike
green is a, much better more diverse, pass, rusher yes
if that. Makes sense And then pierce is kind of
the guy that again has this great vertical juice and
we saw, that, today right he had a really solid,
vertical jump great. Broad jump he ran the four four
(27:45):
Seven forty like that's exactly just, checking, boxes right just
checking checking, the box checking. The boxes like everything that
he did today you saw, on film and so that
that's what you're. Expect him you see him do the
drops and you see him on, the hoop and it's
super smooth, and effortless and that's the kind of athlete
you Want to So when I'M a Gm and i'm
trying to, Mitigate risk, i'm, Like okay like he is
the athlete that we saw, on FILM and i think
(28:06):
that that's kind of what we're asking for and then
another guy, you know talking about To Defend mike green
here that's not doing anything Today Is jalen Walker. From,
georgia yeah he's supposed to be a top five pick
on some. People's boards he measured at six, to one
he waited in it to forty three and his arms
were thirty. One inches and so for a guy that
is moonlighting again is an off ball linebacker and an, Edge,
(28:26):
rusher like does that change your perspective of him a?
Little bit it does? For, me, Yeah absolutely so like
these are, the same it's the Same As.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Mike green it Feels like i'm Picking On.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Mike green, but yeah but you're you're calling out a,
point HERE and i just think it's good to kind
of point out some of these other guys that didn't.
Do anything, and again like, for Me Like malik walker
WAS one i was really wanted to see RUN because
i wanted to see him go toe to Toe With
shamar stewart because they're they're kind of buildings, the same big.
Freaky guys but if you're not going to be big
and freaky with, low production then what are we actually?
(28:56):
Doing here so those are just some guys that these
are always the kind of interesting storyline that. Come, out
again we always go back to. The film that's the.
Main thing but now there's just a little bit of
like a. Question mark, you know It doesn't we're not
moving guys drastically because, of THIS but i want to
go back and rewatch him stuff, and say maybe he's
not as ATHLETIC as, i thought or why you Know what.
I'm saying it just just forces. A reevaluation one of the.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Cool THINGS that i Liked About james pierce today and
you mentioned it, to me is that he was wearing
orange shoes and, you said, you know if an agent
smart and maybe his agent did this is says if
you have something that you excel at and you can
kind of like make yourself seen and, pinpoint that like
if your, footbook's great if you're a freaky athlete, or
something wear some bright shoes like, stand out have a
(29:37):
certain stype of type of, hair cut right.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Because they kind of give you. A uniform but if
you can kind of like it's funny, in line you'll
be watching kind of. Guy go, you know there's twenty
five guys that'll go guy, go guy and, you're, like
oh it's the dude with the. Blue, gloves oh it's
the guy with the. Pink shoes oh it's the guy
with the afro or the long hair or the ponytail
or whatever. It is and so you just kind of.
Recognize them and if you're doing, good stuff that recognition.
Is AMPLE and i think, that's like, for example, uh
(30:02):
OH the DJ from ucla wore blue, gloves, today right
he wore, blue gloves AND so i, was like there
he is, in LINE and i know it's.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
You, know exactly and, he's like look. At me that's what.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
It is it's a look.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
At me i'm going to wear. The UNIFORM but i
have so much confidence HERE that i want everyone to
Know when i'm going and Watch what i'm.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
About there and his energy, Is tremendous like he's getting
up there and he's talking smack to the defensive. Line
coach he's running the hoop drill and he's, Like saying,
i'm ready you're, not ready and, you know and it's
cool to see that kind. Of energy and again he's
and the thing about him is like we wanted to see.
That energy we wanted to see the kind of the
the physicality that he brought the emotion that. He brought
he brought it and then he didn't run a, Fordy,
(30:39):
either right he didn't. Do it he jumps like he
looked a little stiff in some of the, field work
but like that's how he looks. In college but this
is why he's not a top. Ten, pick yes that's a,
Great right like is some of it.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Not that he didn't, do them it's that some of,
these negatives but. The positives today he, Was like i'm
going to show, you here HERE'S what I can i have.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
For YOU and i think that that is again LIKE
we i, like him he's one of my favorite players in,
the draft but understanding like where he's going to go
potentially and then his role on, your, Team RIGHT like
i think that's the other thing is like he's going
to be, to Me He's frankie luvu like almost one.
To one like he's, incredibly emotional he's. Incredibly passionate he's
reckless as a player a little, Bit right he's got,
(31:17):
tremendous physicality it's a tremendous confidence and he can rush for.
Multiple spots that doesn't change seeing him run a tight. Hoop,
drill chris he was tied At The. Senior bowl he's
tied on the FILM, at ucla so he's exactly who,
he was and it was great to see him bring
that leadership here. Today too SO.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
And, i, HONESTLY logan i thought that here he moved
a little BETTER than i expected. Him, to honestly like,
you're right like when you look back. At him one
of the funniest things about him is that FOR at
ucla for a long time he was an inside linebacker
and then they, were, like oh we're going to make
you a pass rusher for last six games of this
season and he just. Soared off so like he's technically
(31:54):
a little raw and he moves a little bit like
that linebacker, and ASK but i thought he move moved
a little better compared to seeing all these guys GO
than i expected. HIM to i expect him to be
really raw. AND stiff i thought. HE moved i thought he.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
MOVED on, i, mean well he, played linebackers so like
some of like the drop drills. And stuff he's got background,
in that you KNOW what. I mean but he the tightness.
Is there and again that's not a knock. On him
that's just who he is as an athlete as long
as you understand that and you're okay, with It and
i'm perfectly fine. With it because the other stuff, he
does like let's let's knocket out of.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
THE park i think that's Why he i'm gonna guess
that he's going to be a second, round guy, maybe
first depending on how. HE knows i think he's going
to be in about that area that the commanders are
going to. BE picked I think i.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Hope he gets he takes a little bit of a
slide and right there when the commanders have that PICK
from i forget who it is at the top of
THE third i hope he's sitting there and we just
take him in with open arms and say this is.
OUR guy i think that's. A, possibility yeah we're Gonna
do we're gonna do big.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Boards That maybe i'm wrong there and he starts DROPPING
when i put my big, board TOGETHER but i THINK
he i think HE'S gonna i. Don't know it's just
A feeling. I have, I, think o your team see what.
WE see i think that there are a lot of
teams IN the nfl that also love, the motor love
to drive like the person right Like How dan quinn, was,
saying like we're looking for commanders or a lot of
(33:09):
coaches that look for that type of attitude and. Play
style and when you say he's like a one to
One To, frankie luvu like that means a.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Lot to a lot of play it's a.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Good point so they're willing to like KIND of i
don't want to, say reach but they're willing to like
forget some things that they normally. Would get, that, guy
yea that type, of guy that type.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Of, dog also before we, MOVE on i just wanted
To mention donovan AS a Rocku From. Boston college and
then just because he's very Similar, to, oladejo right he's,
you know he's, six' two he's, two forty three he's
got forty thirty, four inch arms so really like just
measures well YOU know. What i mean but didn't run,
a forty today but in the drill work flashed, as
an athlete and so one of The things that i'm
concerned about with him is that he doesn't have this top,
(33:49):
end closing speed but, the athletes, there So like, If
i'm him i'm gonna hold that card close. To my
chest but it's different to me because he's going to
be an end of the first kind of early. Second
round pick but it's Different than the. MI green thing
i just keep looking at these names of guys didn't
run because people go over picking. On my green but
like a lot of, guys didn't run but they are
not going to be a top, fifteen. PICK potentially right
(34:09):
i think. That's the thing they get you, a little
bit a. Little, bit concerned.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah and let's go into our, last piece here and
that's guys at like little eyebrow raise like it's. A
good thing i needed to rewatch the, swilm, or like
well something here DOESN'T match WHAT i think i saw.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
ON film, this i mean there was a bunch. Of
guys today i'll start with the defensive, tackles JUST because,
like i thought this group was. Just really impressive, and
the guy the number one guy for, me, THAT was,
LIKE i mean i was just flat out Impressed With
was Jamiir. Caldwell from oregon he's sixty two, and three
quarters he's three hundred and thirty four pounds and he
just has these for a man that wide just incredibly
(34:47):
silky smooth hips man just hips you can rush the
past or he's bursty off. Line of scrimmage he ran
a four to, Nine eight today so just really just
a tremendous athlete, just Showed out really and It's Him
and Af, collins from texas another big body guy that showed.
The athletic upside so when you're seeing these big dudes move,
so Incredibly well and i'm gonna throw more, guy in
(35:08):
There And it's Taike Williams. From ohio state we were
talking about. Him a ton he's just got this incredibly,
thick lower half, these thick calves he, can change direction he's.
Got great burst he didn't, run a forty but like in,
the drill work wow did he pop as a guy
that is that run stopping kind of body type but
is explosive and twitchy and like all of those guys
like really, Like You know Yaya black from iowa was
(35:32):
another guy that really, Stood out too like just in terms,
of movement skills you don't see guys this big move
with this. Kind of dexterity and it was a different
kind of defensive TACKLE group than i was expecting because
usually you're looking for the guys that are a little
bit undersized that are crazy bursty the. Pass rush upside
but here we got a bunch of guys, THAT were
like i, CAN play nosegard i can. Play three technique
and so those guys in, THAT first, group i mean we're.
(35:55):
Just INCREDIBLY impressive and i got To talk about omar as,
An Undersized Guy omar Norman lot from tennessee and in
the movement drills. Just so dexterous you, see the explosion
you see the guy the arm, length was there and
for him to come out after Having A great senior
bowl and, doing it Here Especially, with walter nolan The
(36:15):
guy from missisippi is kind of the number one three
technique in this class not, doing anything today not measuring,
or he measured but, he didn't run jump or do
any of. The other testing for him to kind of
Come In And omar norman lot and do the, testing
and look the movement skills were so. Great like that
you know everyone talks about defensive tackle. BEING very deep
i just was like my job was almost. On the
floor like with every guy that went just from a size,
(36:37):
movement skills standpoint like usually you watch, the wave drill
the first drill, of the day and like that. Guy's
too stiff that guy can't get. Out OF cuts and i,
JUST was like i DON'T know if i could say
that about anybody. In that group and so to leave
that with that kind of understanding of and there's a,
couple guys obviously three, or four guys but the majority
of them just crushing the movement stuff today at the
(37:00):
size and weights that they are. Was incredibly impressive.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Let me ask you about an edge that you pointed
out to me today that, you, were like whoa and
that's the Other EDGE from TEXAS A and. M nick. Squirt.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Oh yeah, man so again didn't, run a forty didn't
do any kind of explosive, measurement testing today but he
got on the field and so he was an interesting
guy because in twenty Twenty three at purdue he has
eleven sacks. Tons of PRESSURE LOOKS dominant TEXTA. A and
m looks a, little bit sluggish not. Quite as explosive
(37:32):
still an. Effective football player, love the motor, love the intensity.
Love the drive and he got out there and just had, incredibly,
sweet feet, man sweet feet and just hustle and. Drive
to finish he did weigh in at, two fifty seven
which is MUCH lighter than i. Would have. EXPECTED for
him i think he played it close to two eighty
or two Eighty THREE at TEXAS a and m so
obviously cut quite a, bit of weight, but looks great
(37:53):
looks more like He. Did AT perdue and i think
that whoever gave that, advice was, like hey man don't
need to. Be that big probably the right. Move FOR
him and i just it was one of those things, where,
it's like obviously this athlete from twenty twenty three, is
still there the competitor. Is STILL there and i really
enjoyed watching.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Work out today who else stood out? To you today
gave you? A, little eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah just so the defensive tackle group obviously did their
thing and. REALLY showed Out I, mentioned donovan azerak who
already just really the movement skills were. Off the charts
i've always Been Impressed with Jared Ivy. From old, miss he's,
big he's long, he's you know he's like this kind
of three, four and, hybrid you KNOW like where i
(38:36):
can play IN a FOUR i or i can play in.
A wide nine probably gonna play more of a six TECHNIQUE.
In the nfl but he did DROPS today and i
was like to see him move around like. A basketball
player i knew he was, a good athlete but it's
nice to get a little bit of confirmation biased in some.
Of those situations we Already Talked About, james PEARCE junior
like i wanted him to come out. And run well
(38:57):
he came out and. Ran Incredibly well David Walker. From,
central arkansas like he's, six foot flat he's two hundred and,
sixty seven pounds he's, got short arms thirty one and three,
quarter inch arms but he's like considered, a power player
like a power edge that plays. With tremendous MOTOR and
today i was impressed with his ability to drop and
(39:17):
move and kind of get his feet and change direction
because at, that body weight, WITH that height i wasn't
sure how. That, would look. Again interesting prospect i'm not
saying he's going to be a first round, pick or
anything but a guy that coming from, a small school
playing with the motor and the physicality plays with IS
someone that i would keep, an eye, on you know maybe.
In later rounds the guy that can do some, damage. For, sure,
(39:38):
excusually so yeah that guy really stuck. Out to, me
and yeah defensive ends a little bit less spicy in
terms of movement Drills And stuff nick scourtney already talked,
about BECAUSE yeah he i mean he blew me out, of,
the water Really And then shamar stewart obviously the, testing
was great but tweaked his looked. Like he's groin he
had a bunch of ice on his leg after the.
(40:00):
First wave Drill so if I'm him and, I'm his,
agent i'm like if, there's any question. Don't do anymore
but those are some guys that really stuck.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Out to, Me all right so who's the last person
that you want to like sign, off with here like
the last taste? In your mouth like maybe it's a
guy that like we haven't, talked about yet or, is
just like, you know what he had, a good day
he deserves a.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Call, OUT here yeah i mean we've kind of talked
about THE guys that i want to talk about from the,
defensive Line group but i'm going to go back to
the defensive tackle Group and just jamari CALLEDWELL man like
i think he's going to be a. First ROUND pick
and i wasn't on that. TRAIN Until TODAY i mean
i saw Him At. THE senior bowl, i was like i'
he'll be a. Second round guy but he's a difference
maker on the, defensive line man a difference maker in,
(40:44):
a way, THAT quite frankly i. Was not expecting and
to see a guy with those that kind of body
composition move with the dexterity that he moved with. Was
INCREDIBLY impressive and i also got to call Out His
teammate Derek. Harmon from oregon, he measured well thirty, four
inch arms thirty four and a, half in charms he's
three hundred, and fourteen pounds he's six four and a
half and to watch him, move and bend, and you
(41:08):
know they had a clip of him up there on
the jumbo tron today Comparing Him, To chris jones and
obviously that's a lofty, composition or comparison, but the, length
the bend the kind of flexibility like he's three hundred
and fourteen pounds dropping into coverage looking like it's. Effortless
for him and. SO he, was i mean he's high.
(41:29):
On everyone's board i'm surprised people aren't talking. About him
more but had a, really great, workout measured. Well ran
well both Those guys from morgan did. A great JOB and,
so I think if i'm going to, leave you know
leave the audience with a good taste. In their mouth
it's Talking about those oregon defensive tackles and just those
guys needs to get, Some. MORE love loogan i had a.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Great time Today These are defensive line some of my favorite,
guys to watch just because they're so big and freaky
and some OF it's the i, mentioned this before it's
kind of like The bast. And robin's group you have
guys that are big and huge that shouldn't move the way.
They do that you have guys that are a little,
smaller than others but they're, so powerful still and like
you get in anything from like A Absolute like king
(42:13):
kong esque monks are just big and strong, to bristle
like you get that wide variety of guys and watching
them all go together the combine was a. Ton, of
fun also the other thing is it's one thing to WATCH.
IT on tv i love being here and seeing it
because you really get an idea of how. Fast they
are you also get a really good ivy idea about
how big some of. These guys are like for me
(42:35):
who's an, average sized person you're you're. A huge person
but for me who's an. Average SIZED person whenever, i
see Them even when i'm forty yards, Away from, them
i'm like, oh MY gosh and i can't.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Move like that and you see him walking in, the
hallways too when you.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Walk by him these.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Guys, are massive yeah and. It's it's impressive it's a.
Lot of fun it's a. Lot of fun and we
mentioned only a handful of defensive lineman here, defensive tackles
SPECIFICALLY but there's, i don't know probably five or six
more guys we. Could, talk about like it's a really
DYNAMIC group and i can't wait to. Do defensive tackles
we're doing that next week maybe. After, the combine yeah
kind of breaking. Down some film, so.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
All right so what what? Group goes tomorrow do WE
have the i.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
THINK we have i think you were telling, me.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Tight ends receivers, it's, not receivers receivers go RUNNING.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Backs or tbs it's tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
And tight, ends so yeah THE we'll do dbs on
tight ends tomorrow will come live from THE. Combine. And
dbs man we, need bread SMOOTH at, least i do
but it's going to. Be tight ends that's your. Bread
and daughter that's.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Why bread butter i'm excited to. Watch those guys and
it's a really dynamic tight end. Class this year a lot,
of really special, really special athletes hopefully all we haven't
got word on who's working out. And who's not but
and then the DB's is fun this year because, there's,
some tall long fast kind of freaks that are going
to put up some really. Awesome TIMES tomorrow but i
think the more important variable is going to be watching
them in the in, the drill, work you know because,
(43:59):
there's you know guys who've only been playing corner. For
a year they're, converted wide, receivers you know. They're converted
safeties so seeing that group is going to be a.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Lot, of Fun yeah. Thanks wigan dude.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
That's it man it's been a. Lot of fun can't wait.
Do it tomorrow
On today's episode of Ticket of the Draft podcast, we
are live from Indianapolis. We're doing the Combine and it's
defensive ends, defensive tackles today. The freakiest dudes you're ever
gonna see. Big movers, heavy guys, fast guys, guys that
can jump out the gym. They're all here. We talk
about who their dudes were, the guys that we expect
to go top twenty. Did they disappoint I don't think so.
(00:20):
And then guys that bade us raise an eyebrow. Hey,
we got to go back and watch them film in
a bad way and in a good way. It all
starts right now. We were committed to a good draft podcast.
I'm Logan Paulson here with Justin Guy, Jason and Jason.
We are at the Combine Indianapolis. We just spent how
(00:42):
many hours we spent three four hours watching drills, kind
of getting the full combine experience, which is one of
the things that is crazy when I look back on
how much time we actually spent in the stadium watching drills.
But it's also one of the things. One of the
reasons we're here and one of the reasons we're psychopaths
about the draft.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah. I mean, this is a thing that we keep
doing over and over again. So I guess it's the
definition of insanity for us. But you know what, we
just love football, and uh, I love this process. The
Combine's a lot of fun. The city is great and
the stadium's beautiful. Like, they do a really good job here,
so like I never feel like, oh my gosh, I
need to get out of here right like, and by
(01:19):
the way, we've been there for five hours.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Said you said two or three or three or five, it's.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Been five and so we watched a lot of defensive
line today and which is a really fun group. And uh, logan,
but tell me, like about the I don't want to
say the importance of the combine. A lot of people
know what the importance is. Tell me, like, what is
the purpose of the combine when you're scouting?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, so I think when you're scouting obviously, Like we've
talked about this a bunch of times on the Command
Center podcasts on I think probably this podcast last year.
But you know, the reason you come to the combine
is for the meetings. Obviously we are not privy to
those meetings. The next thing would be medical. We are
not privy to medical right, So those are the kind
of the two main ones that that I think teams
are here for. They want to get to know the guys.
(02:04):
You know. Dan Quinn talked about finding commanders as opposed
to finding players, and I think.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, good players here, but there's not a lot of
commanders and that's who we're looking for.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, So I think like that's that's where that that
interaction happens in those meetings. I will say, the reason
that we are here is to kind of get every
bit of information that we possibly can, right, and that's
what ultimately the combine is. Right. It's basically like if
you see a guy who you think is explosive and fast,
do they test explosive and fast? You know, like James
Pierce Junior is a great example of that today. You know,
(02:34):
he runs the four four seven, four four eight, whatever
it is. He's got a good vertical jump, got a
good broad jump. He weighs in nice, he looks great
in the field where he moves around the way he
expect So there's no surprises. What you saw in the
film is what you saw in the field, and that's
exactly what you're hoping to do. Is racially say this
is what I think the guy is. Is there anything
in this drill work that would give me pause, question
(02:54):
or concern about that stuff? So that's really what I
use this for. And obviously there's some guys that surprise,
some guys that disappoint, and then that's when you kind
of got to go back and say, I got to
reevaluate whatever's going on here.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Right, Yeah, like you said, some guys can surprise too.
It's like when you were talking about James Pearce, it's like,
oh my gosh, he's explosive. It's validating everything on the film.
But then at the same time, you can watch another
guy and I think, like Jack Sawyer from a state
for you, you were just mentioning there man, and you
were like, man, I need to go back and rewatch
because I'm seeing things here that I didn't see in
film or maybe I miss And that's like the positive
(03:27):
that comes from the combine, right.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, absolutely, And so you know Jack saw didn't run,
he didn't run Afford, he didn't jump, he didn't do
any really anything other than the measurements in the field work.
But like when you see him move around, you kind
of get what people are talking about he's like a
natural athlete. He tracks the football well. When they do
ball drills, like that's a kind of the end of
the defensive line drills. They do some defensive end drill.
Excuse me, is they do some kind of spot drops
(03:51):
to kind of stimulate what they would be doing at
the NFL level. And he tracks the football well, he's
got nice fluid hips. You're like, oh, well, maybe I
didn't give him enough credit. But to that same point,
like we're talking about our measurement earlier, and like that's
something that was really surprising in a negative way for him.
So you yeah, I think it was. It was thirty
one and three quarters or inches. So like usually you're
(04:11):
looking for defensive linemen with thirty three as a minimum threshold.
And we had a really cool demonstration today, you know,
of a of a product that's here in where are we, Indianapolis,
And they were showing like kind of thresholds for arm
length for positions. And you know, there's a reason that
you know, teams have a threshold of thirty three inches
for defensive linemen because those guys tend to play in
(04:34):
the NFL longer. And like this is this graph kind
of showed that out. So when you see something like that,
you're like, he's gonna have a hard time dealing with
the length and athleticism of NFL tackles. So can he
be as effective as he was in college? So even
though he's a decent athlete, decent mover, it's kind of like,
that's something else you got to look at, and that
that arm length is something that to me shows up
on film, and so it does validate what I'm saying,
(04:54):
But I also want to make sure that I go
back and look and say, hey, you know, maybe these
athletic traits translate to a different type of system where
he's he's dropping more, he's in space a little bit more.
Maybe he could be kind of a space playing end
in a way, and that would fit his skill set
a little bit better. But that's something that again it
makes me go, hey, if you go back and give
him a little bit more benefit of the doubt there, Yeah,
(05:16):
And I.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Wouldn't be producer of me if I just said, man,
we love football so much, we got right into it,
but let's pump the brakes for one second and let
people know what we're going to do on this show.
What we're going to do on the show is we're
going to talk about the defensive line that we watched
today immediately after the combine. We walked over from the stadium,
sat down here, so it's fresh in our minds. What
we're going to do is we're going to tell you,
like some guys that like these are just they're the
(05:37):
cream of the crop. They're the dogs that are there.
They're the dudes like everything that happened here supports the film.
They're gonna be top picks. And we'll talk about one
guy real quick, I'm going to put you on the
spot for that wasn't here. And then we're going to
talk about guys that are like what we saw here
is either going to raise their stock or kind of
raise an eyebrow for you, like, ah, something here doesn't
(05:59):
line up with what I saw, And we're going to
just kind of talk through those things. So we already
kind of did that with Jack Sawyer, right, like the
little eyebrow raise, Like things I'm seeing here don't line
up a film. That's why we go back and reevaluate.
That's why we got so much time between Senior Bowl
and then here and then the draft. But I want
to start out with the dogs, the guys, the top
ones that we know are going to go high, and
(06:21):
the biggest one is up Duel Carter on our Top
ten Defensive Edge podcast, he was your number one and
he's not here or he wanted to be here. He
mentioned at one point that he wanted to participate, but
then was like, ah, I'm not going to because of
my shoulder. I played hurt with it at the end
of the year. I'd like it to get back, better,
back and better. My film speaks for itself. And then
(06:44):
there's information that a medical comes out that he's got
something with his foot, not one hundred percent sure what
it is. Maybe it needs surgery, maybe we don't know.
We're all speculating here. But now he's not doing anything.
He's kind of disappeared that what do you think, like
when something like that sneaks up and an event like
the combine for a guy like him, does does he
(07:07):
drop now?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I don't think so. I mean, I think I think
it's definitely a talking point, right, I think, you know,
he came here to do the medical, he came here
to do the interviews, and we talked about why the
medical is so important. The foot thing comes up in
the medical you know what I mean there, and so
I think, like that's he was here, and I think
he'll he's going to be healthy enough to do his
PRODA And I think as long as he's able to
do something where he moves around for teams, I think
(07:31):
everything's going to be totally fine because everything else besides
the foot seems like.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
It's copas coming up too, So he'll be fine there.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah, And so I think that that's where. Yeah, I
think that's going to be a lot of news. Right,
But again this is it's important when you hear stuff
like that to keep the combine in its proper place
in the evaluation process. Right. So, like people are going
to say, oh, that's going to drop him, But he's
got tremendous film, the best film maybe in the entire class.
He might be the number one player him or Travis
Hunter in this draft, depending on who you talk to, right,
(07:59):
And so he is a special, special football player. And him,
you know, having a slight medical red flag and it's
not even a red flag. He has an injury that
needs to get resolved. He's gonna get it fixed. It's
gonna be fine, it's not a detrimental injury. Yeah, it's
say it's honestly the same thing Jishn Newton had last year, right,
and so they've been able to identify it ahead of time,
and so he's gonna be able to get the surgery
(08:20):
or not surgery, do whatever he needs to do to
make sure he's ready to go for the season. So
I don't think it's going to freak anybody out. And
he sounds like he's taking care of it. So I again,
remember what this is for, right, this is for kind
of your It's to accent things you already know or
make you question things already know. And so we knew
about the shoulder. The foot thing is a little bit
of a surprise, but it's not like a long term
(08:41):
deleterious thing. I think it's gonna be totally fine for
Abdual Carter. But to kind of piggyback off that point,
you know, Mason Graham doesn't really do anything today, no running,
no jumping. He does measure in a little bit smaller
than everybody thought. He's six', two he's two ninety. Five
he was listed at three twenty in. College he's got
thirty two inch, arms, Right he's he.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Could be slimming down for like a forty time with
a pro day or.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So but that's a lot of weight to slim, down,
RIGHT i.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Mean but, Fighters, Look i'm just Being devil's at the
fighters do.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Right there's walking around weight and then there's fighting, weight
and those are two different, things and they can be
twenty pounds thirty pounds.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Different, yeah BUT i think when we saw him do
his interview today and he's standing next to the, reporter
he doesn't he doesn't look like that big. Frame you, know.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
He doesn't stand out when you just look at him
with that, group.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
AND i will say his, film he stands out on. Film, yeah,
Right but it. Does it does change the perspective on
the film when you see a guy who's got suboptimal arm,
length he's got suboptimal body, weight he's got you, know
he doesn't do any running or jumping. Events so it.
Does that does to me calling to a question a
little bit more of the film because you're, like, OH
i thought he was three twenty moving around like, that
and now he's two ninety. Five the movement skills make more.
(09:47):
Sense can he kind of play with that same strength
at THE nfl, ever where he's playing against, bigger, stronger faster,
guys AND i think he. CAN i Love Mason. GRAHAM
i think his film's.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Excellent gon do you don't think he's gonna drop or.
ANYTHING i think he. Might here may be a team
that's like, eh SO i think.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
He goes from like a surefire top five to probably
a sure fire top. Ten you, KNOW i think some
team says and.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The combine really do that doesn't have that much.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Weight it's more it just brings up a, question, Right
it just brings up a. Question and the question here
was LIKE i thought this guy was three hundred and twenty,
pounds he's. Not he's three ninety. Five he's got short,
arms and when you look at the history of defensive
lineman with short arms at that body, weight the success
is not, immediate, Right it's not the same impact. Stuff,
now he's a special football. Player came and started as
(10:31):
a freshman At, michigan like he started for the last three.
Years he's been physically dominant against the best, teams the
best best teams in college. Football, so, like his resume is,
awesome but it does just add a little bit of a.
QUESTION i do think there are teams that will take
him off their board because of the arm leng. Thing,
right there's a reason teams have minimal, threshold minimum. Threshold
it's like there's a Reason jacksonville drafted A walker Over,
(10:53):
hutchinson right Because hutcherson had thirty two inch arms and
it didn't meet their minimum arm threshold for an edge
rusher in THE. Nfl so that is. Something, now that's
a silly, thing, RIGHT i think it's, silly like if
the guy can, play he can. Play but teams do
have those minimal minimum thresholds for a.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Reason, Yeah SO i wanted to ask you about. THAT
i want to poke at, that a little poke at
it BECAUSE i kind of feel, like and this is
just this is not based on. Anything this is just
kind of an observation as just a. Guy is THAT
i feel like THE nfl right now is kind of
bucking trends in a way when it comes to example
quarterback and the size of a, Quarterback like look At
(11:28):
Bryce young and look at Like Dylan gabriel who's in,
now like wide, receiver look At Tank dell and look
At Tes. Johnson that's going to be a team is
going to draft a guy who is in a very
low percentile. Height, wait and it used to be, well
you can't do, this he can't do, that he can't do,
this And Bryce young struggled to, start but he ended
the year pretty. Well and, like so my point is is,
(11:51):
like maybe there's other factors that can go in to
where it's, Like, okay he's five, eleven but maybe you
can still play quarterback because he's so talented. Here and it's,
LIKE i guess there are exceptions to the. Rule i'm
not saying that rules are getting thrown out the, window
But i'm saying that more teams are willing to take
a chance on the.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
EXCEPTION i think that's one hundred percent. Right BUT i
think it's important to remember we talked about this all the.
Time the draft is about mitigating, risk and so some
teams are not okay with the risk associated with, outliers
especially big. Outliers And i'm not saying, that you, Know
Mason graham's an, outlier but he's, shifted like the bucket
that he's in has. Shifted he was, this he was
(12:32):
six y, four he was three, twenty and everyone assumed
with that heighten that, weight he would have at least
thirty three inch. Arms now he's six two AND i
think six two and a, half he's two ninety. Five
he's shrunk significantly and he's got on the shortest side of.
Arms so, again he's a tremendous football. PLAYER i think
he's gonna be fine THE. NFL i don't have any
problems drafting, him BUT i would be willing to best Where,
(12:53):
yes now all of a, sudden now there's a little
bit more risk associated with the, pick and there's other
picks that are less risky because of because they fit
those traditional. Molds and, again this not an indictment of
him as a football. Player his film is, awesome but
remember there is a little bit of a projection to
the next, level and when you don't have some of
these ideal, sizes especially on the offensive, line it really
(13:13):
shows up with offensive defensive. Lineman LIKE i think there
WAS i think The athletic did a study recently where they, said,
like who are the starting offensive tackles with arm length
shorter than thirty three? Inches AND i think they could
only come up with five guys in the last five.
Years so, like there's a reason that that those are
metrics and they're a.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Thing they're, okay, Sorry i'm just devil's avage.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Confirmation, YEAH i think.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That but also like if teams are like if they
have this set in their, mind like if it's universal
across THE nfl in a way where like our threshold
is thirty four, inches then we're just not drafting as
many thirty four guys with less than thirty four, Inches
so that aggregate is not even in. There but that's
not everybody, is, okay so tell me.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
How but that's not true. THOUGH i think a good
example that's here In, washington, right we Draft Sam, cosby
WHO i thought was a very athletic offensive lineman in.
College he had the number ONE ris score for offensive
lineman his year coming out Raw athletics scorer AS ras
and they let him play. Tackle they played right tackle
for a couple like a year right When ron first
drafted him, here AND i think you could see his
(14:15):
limitations from a length standpoint very early. On obviously tremendous,
footwork tremendous, balance but the length kind of ate him
up and then he him in a guard and he's.
Fine so, people, yeah he's a.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Fantastic, yeah better than.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Fine people still draft offensive lineman with thirty two in.
Charms it's just it's like a natural selection process on
the offensive. Line there's other positions where this is not as, important,
right but it does tend to weed those guys out
of those. Positions Alex kappa is one of the best
guards in THE. Nfl he started his career at tackle
for The New England patriots and eventually he just weeds
down and becomes the guard because that's where the more
(14:49):
natural fit. Is he's still a good offensive, lineman he's
still valuable to your. Team it's just that length variable
for tackle is incredibly. Significant so that's why for, tackle
for defensive, linemen those length, measurements because you're dealing with
these big, bodies these big. Athletes it's. Significant so not always.
Right so like The Tes johnson, THING i think it's
a really interesting, conversation which we'll talk about probably more with.
(15:12):
RECEIVERS i think you can find a role for, Him.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah thank. You we'll definitely talk about him On.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Saturday, yeah BUT i think you can find roles for
guys like. That, Yeah because it's becoming a space. Game
so the, length the, size the physicality is slightly less
of you can mitigate. It, yes you can mitigate it
with offensive, line especially with how much you're throwing the. Football,
now it's very hard to.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Mitigate so then we talked about offensive. Line but let's
move back to. Defense and like one of the reasons
that these guys are, dogs they're that dude's at the
top and the combine supports. That, here like one of
those guys With Shamar, stewart The edge From TEXAS a AND.
M because he looks fantastic on film and then he
measures well here he's. Explosive well here everything he didn't do,
(15:51):
drills but everything's lining up. Right so that's where it's, like,
okay so he's fitting into all these thresholds we have
and he looks.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Good, Yes so so the thing with him is THAT
i would say his film does not always support the
athlete that he measured.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
At.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
RIGHT i think that's the thing With, Samar like you,
know you know, me like look at, Me, Jason LIKE
i Love Shamar, Stewart, Right I'm i'm his number one.
Fan but he only had one and a half sacks last, Year,
right he only had one and a half sacks the
year prior to. That in twenty twenty, Three so.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
CAN i throw something out here if you're gonna watch him.
Again one of the REASONS i think he had only
one and a half sacks is because he looks like
He's i'm trying to think of like an analogy for.
It it's like my dog WHEN i have a treat
AND i throw it up in the air and she,
like there's you can see it in her. Mind she
(16:40):
loses her mind for a. Second it's, like oh my,
gosh there's a, truck and like her coordination just. Goes
AND i feel like that's kind of what he. Is
he is such a wild. Man he gets there so
fast and he gets so excited that like his technique
just somewhat. Goes he had so many near, sacks so,
many and it's one of those things where like if
(17:01):
he can just if a coach can just grab him
and be, like hey, man let this slow down for
you when you get. THERE i think it's that one
and a half could easily have been seven or eight
because he had a lot that were right. There.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, NO i totally, agree, Man AND i think that's
the thing about, im like twenty one years. Old it's
the thing he's. Young he's like he's the classic like defensive,
line what do we talk about defensive, lineman production and.
Athleticism if you're a freak, athlete we can make it,
work especially if you're a pretty good run defender in.
College and he's a great he's a monster and he
plays hard as all. Outdoors so, yeah when he, RUNS
i think it was a four, four five or six.
(17:36):
Something i've got it on my little handy dandy thing over.
Here i'll look it up in a. Second but the
thing is is, that like he's got the, Armlength he's
got thirty four and one eighth inch. Arms he weighed
in it to sixty, seven he's six.' five he's got
everything you. Possibly want. He had the broad jump was.
Tremendous today vertical jump was. Forty, inches, like.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah his broad jump was the Same As exavior worthy.
Last year so a guy that's he was what one eighties?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Something, like no he was one.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Sixty seven, oh yeah, you're right, much smaller. Much smaller
he's at the. Inner act but if he's able to,
jump that And then schamar comes in here at the
size that he is, sixty six what did he.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Weigh in here to sixty seven to, sixty.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Seven like a little smaller than what he was listed,
in college but probably slimming down to run, this forty
but like to be able to jump That With xavier worthy, is,
explosive explosive.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And so he did everything you want him to. Do
today so he's he's, the, dude right he's a he's a.
Physical freak he does everything, you WANT and, i think
like that's why he'll probably go, TOP fifteen i, would.
ASSUME right i think someone sees that and says that's
too good to, pass up especially given his film is
not the production's, not there, but again the, work ethic
the dog mentality is. Totally THERE so i think like
HE'S he's i think there's a lot of people That
(18:49):
say Land and jackson won the, combine TODAY and I
think Land and jackson had a. Great Day But shamar stewart,
to me was the one that kind, of, said hey
because he didn't run.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
The, Drills yees stewart didn't run, the drill So and. Jackson,
Did YEAH and i think that. That's why and by,
the way we're Talking about jackson Who's.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
From, Arkansas yeah Land and Jackson, from arkansas and he
had a tremendous. Day too he came in a little
bit lighter than he was At The. Shrine bowl HE
was i think he was six five and three quarters
and he was two hundred and sixty seven, pounds also
but had a forty and a half, inch vertical had
a ten to nine, broad jump which is a little
shorter than some mars but and he ran a four six.
(19:26):
Eight forty so like for a guy that's kind of, this, big,
hulking bruising hard nose edge shetting, defensive end those are
tremendous explosive measurements AND so i think to see, him
again he's a little. BIT stiff i think that shows
up in the, drill work but he doesn't bother me
because THAT'S what i knew he was as, an, Athlete
right but to see him, move around to see, the
physicality see, the, leadership like he had a, tremendous day
(19:46):
and so, to Me he's Him and schamar are like
two of my favorite players in, this draft right because they,
play hard, they're big, physical guys and so like they
came OUT and I think shamar did EXACTLY what i
expect him to do And landed jackson kind of exceeded expectations,
quite honestly BECAUSE he i didn't think he was that,
explosive basically and so to see him have that level
of twitch and movement was.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Incredibly impressive he also Looks like James, BOND villain i
says it sometimes every time he, Pops up, i'm like
he looks like he just wants on. To die so
another guy that KIND of i want to bring Up Is.
Mike green because he didn't. PARTICIPATE here i think that's.
A choice i don't know that there's any injury or anything,
(20:28):
like THAT so i think it's a choice right as
Far AS i'm. I know so why do you think
he chose not to? Do it do you think that helps?
Or hurts because all the other top end Guys, except
carter who said he would have if it wasn't for.
His injuries do you think that's a wise choice to
just let's.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Just talk through it. Real Quick so carter didn't, Do It,
abdill carter the two guys from my house state didn't
run their forties or do any. Explosive, measurements obviously say
did The Field jack sawy did the field work for
my house date defensive end number. Thirty Three tom malau
did not, you know he didn't do, Anything here, so
again like there are guys that didn't do a whole lot.
(21:04):
Of Stuff, kenneth grant the defensive Tackle, for michigan also didn't.
Test here he measured and all that kind. Of Stuff
So mike green kind of followed that. Same MODEL and
i think now with the way the, combine's going if
you're not going to run, fast here don't run like
your agent's so locked in with, your trainer they know
exactly what you're. Gonna run if you're not going to run,
fast here and you have an opportunity to run at
(21:25):
your prode, save it run at YOUR prote i am a.
Little bit it's a little bit concerning. With, him again
his film, is awesome but it's against lower, level competition
so you're always kind, of like how does? This translate and, he,
says oh look at the dominant reps he had At The.
Senior bowl and we've talked about this before in, the
show like he had one dominant rep but a lot
(21:45):
of other reps that were just kind of if you
didn't know That Was, mike green you wouldn't be hyping, it,
up right AND so I think i need to see
a little bit more of that high athletic upside. From
him AND so i was really hoping he'd come, in
shouody run, four five seven and, take us take us,
spikes off walk in the. Locker room all questions, are answered, jump.
(22:06):
High whatever but he's not gonna, do that and so
he might be not happy with. His training they're, gonna
wait they'll do it At the. Marshall protate but it
does kind, of say like, for me And again i'm just,
One person like That's something i'm gonna be watching very
closely as we get closer to the draft because if
you are not your build as a top flight, pass
rusher if you're not a top flight, pass rusher like
your explosive measurements are, not good your forty is. Not
(22:29):
good and, BY forty i mean like your ten yards
split is not is not a good ten. Yard split
so it's not one five.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
To five why does ten yard split matter for?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
An edgeraction it MATTERS because i think it shows kind
of that horizontal propulsion that's required for, getting Sacks Like
dan quinn talked about in this pressure the, other day
the local scrum that he did With like Jpe And
sam fortyer basically, SAYING like i want the guy that
can beat you to. The spot those guys With Like
chop robinson, Last, year, like yeah not the most refined,
pass rusher but he's got this.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Trump crossis ten. Yards.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Split, yeah ever yeah for a guy over two hundred and, fifty,
Pounds right and so he can beat you to. The
spot and that's always going to stress the. Offensive, line
mean even if you're not that. Technically sound so, with him,
You Know, mike green he's very technically sound as a,
pass rusher but you still need that ability to stress
these guys that are these, left tackles these right tackles
that are, six six they got thirty four inch arms
and they move like. Basketball players like you just need.
(23:18):
That ability and so when You See shamar stewart, do
it when You see Land and jackson, do it these
guys that were kind of lesser athletes, quote unquote like
their answering the bell from a physicality and. Mentality Standpoint
but i'm Not Saying mike. Green won't, but again you
know his arms are thirty two inches a little on the.
Short side that's, not fatal but these are all things where,
you're like show me that you belong here from an,
(23:38):
athletic standpoint, And again. I'm disappointed he's got to do
what's right, for HIM and i think. DEFINITELY does i
think this is what's right. For Him but i'm Going
to i'm paying attention and we're going to talk. About
it when he runs, A forty we're going to talk
about it on.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
This, show yeah it's almost like the less he starts
to do because. He didn't he stopped After The. Senior
bowl he's not doing much At, The kammain so it's
it's almost like he and it's almost like he's he's kind, of, like,
OH okay i got this allure around me, right now
So like i'm not going to mess. With THAT like
i have a positive vibe, going ON so i don't
(24:12):
want to do anything to screw. THAT up a part
of me, is like that's. Really smart that's a really smart.
Business decision your agent's telling you to. Write thing another part,
of me and maybe this IS because i just want
the content RIGHT and i want to. Watch it another
part of me, is like, all right, what's, Wrong man
like where's your competitive drive and? Competitive needture but, THEN
again i don't want to mess with this, guy's.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
MONEY right i think that's the other thing, is, Like
Uh malik williams did not run, a, forty right and
he's THE guy i want's talk. About him is the
high freak upside that's going to break into the, top
fifteen maybe top ten as. A player like those are.
Big decisions so it wasn't just him that wasn't, Doing
IT but i do think there's more questions about him
because the level. Of competition so that's Something that i'm
(24:53):
just kind of trying to pay. Attention to, and again
where there's a lot of guys that didn't, do IT
and i think that's totally fine coming off a long,
football season it might not be. Totally healthy you just
Talked about I'd do carter with, The shoulder like it's
not a criticism, of him but it just does raise
a question because the level of competition that he played
Against at Marshall whe, YOU'RE like i want that data point, for,
Something right but, THEN again i go Back To. DRAKE
(25:13):
london i know we're talking about, Receivers Now drake lundon
never ran a forty, coming OUT and i, WAS like
i need to see him run. A, forty yeah but
he's been FINE, the nfl like because he's just a good.
Football player so this might be just, you KNOW my
nfl traditionalism TELLING me i need to see SOMETHING that
i don't need. To see the film's, good enough for sure.
IT is i can't shake it from the back of.
My mind there is.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Something about the keep, them guessing or like if you don't,
see it then you don't know that, It's bad like
you can always just like you KNOW what, i mean
it's not confirming, something's bad Not That drake london would
have had a. Bad forty people can sometimes say, oh
well like a lot, of media a lot of PODCASTS
that i, listened to, they'll, say, oh well he needs
to come out and he needs to run this. Time
(25:52):
right and then, it's, like Well if i'm not going to,
do that and you've already set this arbitrary approach mark
for no reason like that, YOU created i, Didn't create
no one created you created it, The media, so like
WHY would i do that? To myself? The issue AND
so I Get mike green. WITH that i think the
Thing With mike green that's a little interesting is that
there's a lot. Of those, for me there's.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
A lot of like, you're saying the level, of competition
It's The, senior blie.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
It's just a bunch of yeah after only one, big
play and like it's just it's just a lot of,
those boxes not. Just one it's not just, a forty
it's not, Just this it's not just that Like a
tovandre sweat, last year right At The, senior bowl he didn't,
weigh in and it, was like how big is? This
dude and a part of it, Was, Like hey i'm going,
(26:39):
To play i'm, Gonna hustle I'm gonna i'm gonna do
everything but give you, my weight keep you guys, Guessing
right and there was something about THAT that i kind
of liked because it's Like just i'm going to check off.
Every box so if this is the only box you,
care about.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Then fine and then he did win the combine gave.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Himself Time So mike green, has time he has. Pro
day there's a lot of time between now and. The
DRAFT and I Like mike green. A LOT remember i
calmed Them The Bruce, LAE like i think this dude.
Is awesome i'm. Just curious i'm really curious. About HIM
and i really wanted to see him today go uh
not up against but, you know in the same line
and watch. Him go it is Too Especially James pierce
(27:21):
Junior the Edge, from tennessee because, to me they play
kind of the same in the same kind, of.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Bill they play kind of, The same they got the
same kind, of, juice seemingly, YOU know I Think mike
green is a, much better more diverse, pass, rusher yes
if that. Makes sense And then pierce is kind of
the guy that again has this great vertical juice and
we saw, that, today right he had a really solid,
vertical jump great. Broad jump he ran the four four
(27:45):
Seven forty like that's exactly just, checking, boxes right just
checking checking, the box checking. The boxes like everything that
he did today you saw, on film and so that
that's what you're. Expect him you see him do the
drops and you see him on, the hoop and it's
super smooth, and effortless and that's the kind of athlete
you Want to So when I'M a Gm and i'm
trying to, Mitigate risk, i'm, Like okay like he is
the athlete that we saw, on FILM and i think
(28:06):
that that's kind of what we're asking for and then
another guy, you know talking about To Defend mike green
here that's not doing anything Today Is jalen Walker. From,
georgia yeah he's supposed to be a top five pick
on some. People's boards he measured at six, to one
he waited in it to forty three and his arms
were thirty. One inches and so for a guy that
is moonlighting again is an off ball linebacker and an, Edge,
(28:26):
rusher like does that change your perspective of him a?
Little bit it does? For, me, Yeah absolutely so like
these are, the same it's the Same As.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Mike green it Feels like i'm Picking On.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Mike green, but yeah but you're you're calling out a,
point HERE and i just think it's good to kind
of point out some of these other guys that didn't.
Do anything, and again like, for Me Like malik walker
WAS one i was really wanted to see RUN because
i wanted to see him go toe to Toe With
shamar stewart because they're they're kind of buildings, the same big.
Freaky guys but if you're not going to be big
and freaky with, low production then what are we actually?
(28:56):
Doing here so those are just some guys that these
are always the kind of interesting storyline that. Come, out
again we always go back to. The film that's the.
Main thing but now there's just a little bit of
like a. Question mark, you know It doesn't we're not
moving guys drastically because, of THIS but i want to
go back and rewatch him stuff, and say maybe he's
not as ATHLETIC as, i thought or why you Know what.
I'm saying it just just forces. A reevaluation one of the.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Cool THINGS that i Liked About james pierce today and
you mentioned it, to me is that he was wearing
orange shoes and, you said, you know if an agent
smart and maybe his agent did this is says if
you have something that you excel at and you can
kind of like make yourself seen and, pinpoint that like
if your, footbook's great if you're a freaky athlete, or
something wear some bright shoes like, stand out have a
(29:37):
certain stype of type of, hair cut right.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Because they kind of give you. A uniform but if
you can kind of like it's funny, in line you'll
be watching kind of. Guy go, you know there's twenty
five guys that'll go guy, go guy and, you're, like
oh it's the dude with the. Blue, gloves oh it's
the guy with the. Pink shoes oh it's the guy
with the afro or the long hair or the ponytail
or whatever. It is and so you just kind of.
Recognize them and if you're doing, good stuff that recognition.
Is AMPLE and i think, that's like, for example, uh
(30:02):
OH the DJ from ucla wore blue, gloves, today right
he wore, blue gloves AND so i, was like there
he is, in LINE and i know it's.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
You, know exactly and, he's like look. At me that's what.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
It is it's a look.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
At me i'm going to wear. The UNIFORM but i
have so much confidence HERE that i want everyone to
Know when i'm going and Watch what i'm.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
About there and his energy, Is tremendous like he's getting
up there and he's talking smack to the defensive. Line
coach he's running the hoop drill and he's, Like saying,
i'm ready you're, not ready and, you know and it's
cool to see that kind. Of energy and again he's
and the thing about him is like we wanted to see.
That energy we wanted to see the kind of the
the physicality that he brought the emotion that. He brought
he brought it and then he didn't run a, Fordy,
(30:39):
either right he didn't. Do it he jumps like he
looked a little stiff in some of the, field work
but like that's how he looks. In college but this
is why he's not a top. Ten, pick yes that's a,
Great right like is some of it.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Not that he didn't, do them it's that some of,
these negatives but. The positives today he, Was like i'm
going to show, you here HERE'S what I can i have.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
For YOU and i think that that is again LIKE
we i, like him he's one of my favorite players in,
the draft but understanding like where he's going to go
potentially and then his role on, your, Team RIGHT like
i think that's the other thing is like he's going
to be, to Me He's frankie luvu like almost one.
To one like he's, incredibly emotional he's. Incredibly passionate he's
reckless as a player a little, Bit right he's got,
(31:17):
tremendous physicality it's a tremendous confidence and he can rush for.
Multiple spots that doesn't change seeing him run a tight. Hoop,
drill chris he was tied At The. Senior bowl he's
tied on the FILM, at ucla so he's exactly who,
he was and it was great to see him bring
that leadership here. Today too SO.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
And, i, HONESTLY logan i thought that here he moved
a little BETTER than i expected. Him, to honestly like,
you're right like when you look back. At him one
of the funniest things about him is that FOR at
ucla for a long time he was an inside linebacker
and then they, were, like oh we're going to make
you a pass rusher for last six games of this
season and he just. Soared off so like he's technically
(31:54):
a little raw and he moves a little bit like
that linebacker, and ASK but i thought he move moved
a little better compared to seeing all these guys GO
than i expected. HIM to i expect him to be
really raw. AND stiff i thought. HE moved i thought he.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
MOVED on, i, mean well he, played linebackers so like
some of like the drop drills. And stuff he's got background,
in that you KNOW what. I mean but he the tightness.
Is there and again that's not a knock. On him
that's just who he is as an athlete as long
as you understand that and you're okay, with It and
i'm perfectly fine. With it because the other stuff, he
does like let's let's knocket out of.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
THE park i think that's Why he i'm gonna guess
that he's going to be a second, round guy, maybe
first depending on how. HE knows i think he's going
to be in about that area that the commanders are
going to. BE picked I think i.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Hope he gets he takes a little bit of a
slide and right there when the commanders have that PICK
from i forget who it is at the top of
THE third i hope he's sitting there and we just
take him in with open arms and say this is.
OUR guy i think that's. A, possibility yeah we're Gonna
do we're gonna do big.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Boards That maybe i'm wrong there and he starts DROPPING
when i put my big, board TOGETHER but i THINK
he i think HE'S gonna i. Don't know it's just
A feeling. I have, I, think o your team see what.
WE see i think that there are a lot of
teams IN the nfl that also love, the motor love
to drive like the person right Like How dan quinn, was,
saying like we're looking for commanders or a lot of
(33:09):
coaches that look for that type of attitude and. Play
style and when you say he's like a one to
One To, frankie luvu like that means a.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Lot to a lot of play it's a.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Good point so they're willing to like KIND of i
don't want to, say reach but they're willing to like
forget some things that they normally. Would get, that, guy
yea that type, of guy that type.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Of, dog also before we, MOVE on i just wanted
To mention donovan AS a Rocku From. Boston college and
then just because he's very Similar, to, oladejo right he's,
you know he's, six' two he's, two forty three he's
got forty thirty, four inch arms so really like just
measures well YOU know. What i mean but didn't run,
a forty today but in the drill work flashed, as
an athlete and so one of The things that i'm
concerned about with him is that he doesn't have this top,
(33:49):
end closing speed but, the athletes, there So like, If
i'm him i'm gonna hold that card close. To my
chest but it's different to me because he's going to
be an end of the first kind of early. Second
round pick but it's Different than the. MI green thing
i just keep looking at these names of guys didn't
run because people go over picking. On my green but
like a lot of, guys didn't run but they are
not going to be a top, fifteen. PICK potentially right
(34:09):
i think. That's the thing they get you, a little
bit a. Little, bit concerned.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah and let's go into our, last piece here and
that's guys at like little eyebrow raise like it's. A
good thing i needed to rewatch the, swilm, or like
well something here DOESN'T match WHAT i think i saw.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
ON film, this i mean there was a bunch. Of
guys today i'll start with the defensive, tackles JUST because,
like i thought this group was. Just really impressive, and
the guy the number one guy for, me, THAT was,
LIKE i mean i was just flat out Impressed With
was Jamiir. Caldwell from oregon he's sixty two, and three
quarters he's three hundred and thirty four pounds and he
just has these for a man that wide just incredibly
(34:47):
silky smooth hips man just hips you can rush the
past or he's bursty off. Line of scrimmage he ran
a four to, Nine eight today so just really just
a tremendous athlete, just Showed out really and It's Him
and Af, collins from texas another big body guy that showed.
The athletic upside so when you're seeing these big dudes move,
so Incredibly well and i'm gonna throw more, guy in
(35:08):
There And it's Taike Williams. From ohio state we were
talking about. Him a ton he's just got this incredibly,
thick lower half, these thick calves he, can change direction he's.
Got great burst he didn't, run a forty but like in,
the drill work wow did he pop as a guy
that is that run stopping kind of body type but
is explosive and twitchy and like all of those guys
like really, Like You know Yaya black from iowa was
(35:32):
another guy that really, Stood out too like just in terms,
of movement skills you don't see guys this big move
with this. Kind of dexterity and it was a different
kind of defensive TACKLE group than i was expecting because
usually you're looking for the guys that are a little
bit undersized that are crazy bursty the. Pass rush upside
but here we got a bunch of guys, THAT were
like i, CAN play nosegard i can. Play three technique
and so those guys in, THAT first, group i mean we're.
(35:55):
Just INCREDIBLY impressive and i got To talk about omar as,
An Undersized Guy omar Norman lot from tennessee and in
the movement drills. Just so dexterous you, see the explosion
you see the guy the arm, length was there and
for him to come out after Having A great senior
bowl and, doing it Here Especially, with walter nolan The
(36:15):
guy from missisippi is kind of the number one three
technique in this class not, doing anything today not measuring,
or he measured but, he didn't run jump or do
any of. The other testing for him to kind of
Come In And omar norman lot and do the, testing
and look the movement skills were so. Great like that
you know everyone talks about defensive tackle. BEING very deep
i just was like my job was almost. On the
floor like with every guy that went just from a size,
(36:37):
movement skills standpoint like usually you watch, the wave drill
the first drill, of the day and like that. Guy's
too stiff that guy can't get. Out OF cuts and i,
JUST was like i DON'T know if i could say
that about anybody. In that group and so to leave
that with that kind of understanding of and there's a,
couple guys obviously three, or four guys but the majority
of them just crushing the movement stuff today at the
(37:00):
size and weights that they are. Was incredibly impressive.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Let me ask you about an edge that you pointed
out to me today that, you, were like whoa and
that's the Other EDGE from TEXAS A and. M nick. Squirt.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Oh yeah, man so again didn't, run a forty didn't
do any kind of explosive, measurement testing today but he
got on the field and so he was an interesting
guy because in twenty Twenty three at purdue he has
eleven sacks. Tons of PRESSURE LOOKS dominant TEXTA. A and
m looks a, little bit sluggish not. Quite as explosive
(37:32):
still an. Effective football player, love the motor, love the intensity.
Love the drive and he got out there and just had, incredibly,
sweet feet, man sweet feet and just hustle and. Drive
to finish he did weigh in at, two fifty seven
which is MUCH lighter than i. Would have. EXPECTED for
him i think he played it close to two eighty
or two Eighty THREE at TEXAS a and m so
obviously cut quite a, bit of weight, but looks great
(37:53):
looks more like He. Did AT perdue and i think
that whoever gave that, advice was, like hey man don't
need to. Be that big probably the right. Move FOR
him and i just it was one of those things, where,
it's like obviously this athlete from twenty twenty three, is
still there the competitor. Is STILL there and i really
enjoyed watching.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Work out today who else stood out? To you today
gave you? A, little eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah just so the defensive tackle group obviously did their
thing and. REALLY showed Out I, mentioned donovan azerak who
already just really the movement skills were. Off the charts
i've always Been Impressed with Jared Ivy. From old, miss he's,
big he's long, he's you know he's like this kind
of three, four and, hybrid you KNOW like where i
(38:36):
can play IN a FOUR i or i can play in.
A wide nine probably gonna play more of a six TECHNIQUE.
In the nfl but he did DROPS today and i
was like to see him move around like. A basketball
player i knew he was, a good athlete but it's
nice to get a little bit of confirmation biased in some.
Of those situations we Already Talked About, james PEARCE junior
like i wanted him to come out. And run well
(38:57):
he came out and. Ran Incredibly well David Walker. From,
central arkansas like he's, six foot flat he's two hundred and,
sixty seven pounds he's, got short arms thirty one and three,
quarter inch arms but he's like considered, a power player
like a power edge that plays. With tremendous MOTOR and
today i was impressed with his ability to drop and
(39:17):
move and kind of get his feet and change direction
because at, that body weight, WITH that height i wasn't
sure how. That, would look. Again interesting prospect i'm not
saying he's going to be a first round, pick or
anything but a guy that coming from, a small school
playing with the motor and the physicality plays with IS
someone that i would keep, an eye, on you know maybe.
In later rounds the guy that can do some, damage. For, sure,
(39:38):
excusually so yeah that guy really stuck. Out to, me
and yeah defensive ends a little bit less spicy in
terms of movement Drills And stuff nick scourtney already talked,
about BECAUSE yeah he i mean he blew me out, of,
the water Really And then shamar stewart obviously the, testing
was great but tweaked his looked. Like he's groin he
had a bunch of ice on his leg after the.
(40:00):
First wave Drill so if I'm him and, I'm his,
agent i'm like if, there's any question. Don't do anymore
but those are some guys that really stuck.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Out to, Me all right so who's the last person
that you want to like sign, off with here like
the last taste? In your mouth like maybe it's a
guy that like we haven't, talked about yet or, is
just like, you know what he had, a good day
he deserves a.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Call, OUT here yeah i mean we've kind of talked
about THE guys that i want to talk about from the,
defensive Line group but i'm going to go back to
the defensive tackle Group and just jamari CALLEDWELL man like
i think he's going to be a. First ROUND pick
and i wasn't on that. TRAIN Until TODAY i mean
i saw Him At. THE senior bowl, i was like i'
he'll be a. Second round guy but he's a difference
maker on the, defensive line man a difference maker in,
(40:44):
a way, THAT quite frankly i. Was not expecting and
to see a guy with those that kind of body
composition move with the dexterity that he moved with. Was
INCREDIBLY impressive and i also got to call Out His
teammate Derek. Harmon from oregon, he measured well thirty, four
inch arms thirty four and a, half in charms he's
three hundred, and fourteen pounds he's six four and a
half and to watch him, move and bend, and you
(41:08):
know they had a clip of him up there on
the jumbo tron today Comparing Him, To chris jones and
obviously that's a lofty, composition or comparison, but the, length
the bend the kind of flexibility like he's three hundred
and fourteen pounds dropping into coverage looking like it's. Effortless
for him and. SO he, was i mean he's high.
(41:29):
On everyone's board i'm surprised people aren't talking. About him
more but had a, really great, workout measured. Well ran
well both Those guys from morgan did. A great JOB and,
so I think if i'm going to, leave you know
leave the audience with a good taste. In their mouth
it's Talking about those oregon defensive tackles and just those
guys needs to get, Some. MORE love loogan i had a.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Great time Today These are defensive line some of my favorite,
guys to watch just because they're so big and freaky
and some OF it's the i, mentioned this before it's
kind of like The bast. And robin's group you have
guys that are big and huge that shouldn't move the way.
They do that you have guys that are a little,
smaller than others but they're, so powerful still and like
you get in anything from like A Absolute like king
(42:13):
kong esque monks are just big and strong, to bristle
like you get that wide variety of guys and watching
them all go together the combine was a. Ton, of
fun also the other thing is it's one thing to WATCH.
IT on tv i love being here and seeing it
because you really get an idea of how. Fast they
are you also get a really good ivy idea about
how big some of. These guys are like for me
(42:35):
who's an, average sized person you're you're. A huge person
but for me who's an. Average SIZED person whenever, i
see Them even when i'm forty yards, Away from, them
i'm like, oh MY gosh and i can't.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Move like that and you see him walking in, the
hallways too when you.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Walk by him these.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Guys, are massive yeah and. It's it's impressive it's a.
Lot of fun it's a. Lot of fun and we
mentioned only a handful of defensive lineman here, defensive tackles
SPECIFICALLY but there's, i don't know probably five or six
more guys we. Could, talk about like it's a really
DYNAMIC group and i can't wait to. Do defensive tackles
we're doing that next week maybe. After, the combine yeah
kind of breaking. Down some film, so.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
All right so what what? Group goes tomorrow do WE
have the i.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
THINK we have i think you were telling, me.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Tight ends receivers, it's, not receivers receivers go RUNNING.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Backs or tbs it's tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
And tight, ends so yeah THE we'll do dbs on
tight ends tomorrow will come live from THE. Combine. And
dbs man we, need bread SMOOTH at, least i do
but it's going to. Be tight ends that's your. Bread
and daughter that's.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Why bread butter i'm excited to. Watch those guys and
it's a really dynamic tight end. Class this year a lot,
of really special, really special athletes hopefully all we haven't
got word on who's working out. And who's not but
and then the DB's is fun this year because, there's,
some tall long fast kind of freaks that are going
to put up some really. Awesome TIMES tomorrow but i
think the more important variable is going to be watching
them in the in, the drill, work you know because,
(43:59):
there's you know guys who've only been playing corner. For
a year they're, converted wide, receivers you know. They're converted
safeties so seeing that group is going to be a.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Lot, of Fun yeah. Thanks wigan dude.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
That's it man it's been a. Lot of fun can't wait.
Do it tomorrow
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