August 13, 2025 • 13 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So it's been Governor Mike Broun for what is it
almost eight months?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Is it exactly eight months? How do we think it's gone.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I mean there's a lot of clamor, there's a lot
of talk, but what is the now was settled into
the job, what's the goal?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
What is it that we're after in the state of Indiana.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Tony Katz at ninety three WIBC, Good morning, Good to
be with you. Governor Mike Brown joins us right now,
served in that General Assembly, former US Senator and now governor.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We take a look.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
At these past months, getting used to the job, knowing
where the office is, knowing where they keep the stapler.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Things like that.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
You said leaving the Senate was about not being able
to get anything done in eight months. Do you feel
that you've been able to get more things done as governor?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Eight Tony, good to be on the show.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
And when I said getting anything done, we got more
done as a freshman Senate office than almost any first
termer there and outperformed some of the ones you have
to wheel out of there after two to three decades.
But you weren't doing large agenda items because that got
caught up in the ideology of needing sixty senators to
(01:20):
agree to it. So in choosing to one to run
for governor, I'm a big believer in term limits at
the federal level. Onen't going to do it more than
two terms. And we've gotten a lot done here in
a sharp time. In these seven months plus, we streamlined
state government. There was a lot of slop in fact
(01:40):
in the agencies we asked to reduce your costs.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You couldn't get used to the COVID.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Borrowing and spending spree, and we're getting better performance out
of state government. I've got eight entrepreneurial individuals leading the
policy cabinet silos. Legislatively, we jumped in that in motion
and did a lot in education, health care and things
that really count. The big issue beyond I think getting
(02:11):
off to a great start, is how do you deal
with the challenges that kind of pop up and even
within your own governing party, having to deal with things
that become distractions to what I think has been a
great team. We've gotten a lot done, and most legislators
would agree with everything I just said, too.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Well, I will be the one to tell you that
certainly you can create a list of things that were done.
Not everybody in Indiana you know this, agrees. They don't
agree property taxes were well done. Certainly as a cigar guy,
covering a shortfall with attacks on cigar stores and cigars
in general is.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
A serious issue.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
The tax should be on lawyers and kail sir, not
on cigars. It was a real abuse by the Reportublicans.
But one of the things that we look at in
the idea of growth is the idea of business growth.
And there's been a tremendous amount of talk regarding data
centers and data centers coming to Indiana.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
And we see now the power the.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Electricity issues that come with these data centers, never mind
the question of what kind of jobs are are we
talking about? New Jersey residents have seen a power bills
triple because of well regulation here. These data centers say
so much power. We're also seeing increases in these costs.
(03:35):
Is Indiana a place for these data centers to come?
Are we actively trying to attract them to be here?
Speaker 4 (03:43):
They want to come to Indiana because of the business
climate in general?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Do we want to do.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
That's a great question, and to me, it's very analogous
to it's in the energy category. They are voracious. They
use one big data center can use up to five
percent of what we currently produce, and there's not hardly
any new generation coming online due to how difficult that is.
(04:09):
And when they came on the scene along with chip factories,
it spiked that and they use a lot of water
to boot, where one of fifteen states has probably got
enough water to do it. But it's very analogous to
wind and solar. You saw where that really did well
for a short period of time until it started getting
involved with local rule versus property owners' ability to do
(04:35):
what they want. Then a desire to do a state
template to make it easy for more wind and solar.
That's kind of found it's water level. Data centers are
worse because they use electricity and it takes four to
five years even to stand up a natural gas facility.
I'm trying to lead on small modular reactors for more
(04:59):
general I usual to do yes, and we've got we're
at the leading edge of it because Purdue is the
place that's spent the most time on and it's the
same process that powers our aircraft carriers in submarines very safe.
It eliminates almost all the concerns in terms of safety,
and the whole nuclear industry has run with a stellar
(05:22):
record Posts Three Mile Island and so forth. Very familiar
with it because we discussed it a lot in the Senate.
That doesn't mean we need to have them all. And
unless they're going to pay for most of the generation
they're going to need, it's going to take away from
others in terms of households and business growth.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So we've got to tread carefully. The school is still
out on it.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I think we're going to need it because AI is
going to be in demand. That's a geopolitical issue and
here we just need to make sure we don't do
something that hampers normal growth and.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Get it right. So I'm going to be careful.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
There a lot of people want to come to Indiana
to do them because we've got a good business climate.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Talking to Governor Mike Brown, Governor of Indiana, and I
would agree. I am a fan of nuclear power and
I have been for some time. And if we want
to be a place that has nuclear power and therefore
can provide power to these data centers, I want to ensure.
I want to know from you that we're not giving
away the farm to get the data center.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
If we've got the power.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And we've got the land, and we've got the people,
you're lucky to be here.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I don't think we need to be.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Engaging in giveaways for the data center, which leads us
to what is it that we're trying to attract. You
made changes to the IEDC. You changed that composition, really
changing the outlook. This seems to be much more small
business focused, much more Indiana focused, and not focused on there.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
There's nobody in biotech, nobody in AI.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You just brought that up, Nobody in these major growth industries,
in technological industries that right now is part of the IEDC.
It doesn't seem to be where you're going to attract business.
Do you view the IEDC as a vehicle to attract
business to Indiana?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Definitely.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
It's just that the focus is going to be to
where we see the benefits across the state. And as
I've used the term fertilize the field of entrepreneurs in
main street. That doesn't mean we're going to disregard some
of the best larger companies industries that want to come here,
but we're going to scrutinize it carefully and that's why
(07:35):
we reconstituted the full IEDC board with people with that
general perspective, and I embraced an audit, you know, to
see what has been going on so that we get
legitimacy back into the IEDC and make sure like elevate Ventures,
which is a wonderful purpose of trying to provide capital
(07:58):
to startups and lead as businesses, but it's got to
be done to where we can see what's going on.
We've got to make sure we're not spending too much
money to do that, so you take a total look
at it, and this means we'll do the best of
what we think needs to be done so that we're
not overlooking some of the larger opportunities.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
But I want to make it to where.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Main street and small businesses have their doors knocked on
in terms of what can we.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Do to help them.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I'm not opposed to knocking on the doors of main Street,
but I'm giving you if you have not heard this,
the IDC makeup makes it look like we're not interested
in attracting big stuff and engage in big ideas. The
idea of building main Street has value, not to the
(08:47):
idea that we're going to forsake larger scale projects that
bring larger scale opportunity, and that's what your id DC
picks look like you're doing.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I want to make it clear that's wrong extrapolation and
they're not mutually exclusive. We're going to do both. In
building a business over thirty seven years, you can never
get locked into either this or that. You had to
look at it broadly, and here we got forty nine
other competitors states that want to kind of do the
same thing. I feel well equipped to know the difference
(09:21):
between how we address main street how we address larger entities,
and we're going to do well at both. I'd say
that is a kind of an extrapolation that doesn't make sense.
And I'm telling you officially, we're going after the best
of both. We're going to broaden it out and I've
got a crew there in the IEDC. We're going to
(09:42):
get the audit under our belt and make sure that
whatever we do is done with full transparency going forward
and accountability. And I feel good about that as well.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Talking to Governor Mike Broun, the governor of Indiana before
I let you go, sir, as we all know, the
nonsen is the stuff that buries you. It sinks you.
You've seen it enough to know it.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
To be true.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
You have a Secretary of State, Diego Morales, that takes
hit after hit for travel and maybe how he is
representing or misrepresenting himself to other nations. You have this
story regarding the Lieutenant Governor Micah beckw with and some
video which nobody has proven to me exists. And I
am not calling the man guilty at all until I
(10:27):
see proof of it, and I do not know if
I trust the source that says that the video exists.
What you have, however, are these distractions Your argument has
been and you made this argument to my counterpart timer
Nigel just yesterday that if it was in your office,
you would get to the bottom of it. Sir, with
(10:48):
all due respect to the Governor of Indiana, leadership means leading.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Have you told either one of these.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Offices to get their heads out of their butts and
stop this nonsense, answer the questions and stop making your
life difficult.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Meeting with Micah Beck was here later this morning because
that's probably reached the level of and I agree with you,
we don't know the facts underlying it. Definitely side shows
and distractions making headlines for the wrong reasons, been out
there for a long time saying it.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Hopefully.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
It reminds me of high school students that get out
of line and you've got to bring them back in
sooner or later, even if you're giving them latitude. They
are their own separate offices, each having its own accountability.
But yes, sooner or later there's an accumulation to where
you'll have to weigh in and make sure that it's
(11:44):
either fixed and you focus on the good things that
we've been doing as a state government. And if not,
it's going to be to your detriment when you come
back into the political arena and you're going to be
chalking up a lot of debts and not credits. And yes,
the pressure from my office Leader of the State will
(12:04):
be increasingly so to get back on track, get rid
of the side shows and distractions.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Will there be any pressure on the second day of
State's office to show full transparency regarding flights to foreign
countries and conversations had with those countries that as well.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
When I've been clear, unequivocating on transparency and accountability, and
when you've got companion offices that seem to not be
embracing it. Yes, that'll be a message coming out of
this office. Clear it up, show us quit heighten behind something.
If you think that there's nothing there, prove it, and
(12:42):
there'll be more emphasis coming from the office because neither
office has seemed to self correct. It's getting to the
point where it is too much of a distraction. And
like I say, I'm meeting with the Lieutenant Governor here
in about an.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Hour or so, you'll see more of that. It's a
shame you have.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
To weigh in on it, especially when you look at
all that we've accomplished in nearly eight months.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Governor Mike Brown, I appreciate you coming on. We will
have more of these conversations. Mike bron the Governor of Indiana.
So it's been Governor Mike Broun for what is it
almost eight months?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Is it exactly eight months? How do we think it's gone.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I mean there's a lot of clamor, there's a lot
of talk, but what is the now was settled into
the job, what's the goal?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
What is it that we're after in the state of Indiana.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Tony Katz at ninety three WIBC, Good morning, Good to
be with you. Governor Mike Brown joins us right now,
served in that General Assembly, former US Senator and now governor.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We take a look.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
At these past months, getting used to the job, knowing
where the office is, knowing where they keep the stapler.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Things like that.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
You said leaving the Senate was about not being able
to get anything done in eight months. Do you feel
that you've been able to get more things done as governor?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Eight Tony, good to be on the show.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
And when I said getting anything done, we got more
done as a freshman Senate office than almost any first
termer there and outperformed some of the ones you have
to wheel out of there after two to three decades.
But you weren't doing large agenda items because that got
caught up in the ideology of needing sixty senators to
(01:20):
agree to it. So in choosing to one to run
for governor, I'm a big believer in term limits at
the federal level. Onen't going to do it more than
two terms. And we've gotten a lot done here in
a sharp time. In these seven months plus, we streamlined
state government. There was a lot of slop in fact
(01:40):
in the agencies we asked to reduce your costs.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You couldn't get used to the COVID.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Borrowing and spending spree, and we're getting better performance out
of state government. I've got eight entrepreneurial individuals leading the
policy cabinet silos. Legislatively, we jumped in that in motion
and did a lot in education, health care and things
that really count. The big issue beyond I think getting
(02:11):
off to a great start, is how do you deal
with the challenges that kind of pop up and even
within your own governing party, having to deal with things
that become distractions to what I think has been a
great team. We've gotten a lot done, and most legislators
would agree with everything I just said, too.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Well, I will be the one to tell you that
certainly you can create a list of things that were done.
Not everybody in Indiana you know this, agrees. They don't
agree property taxes were well done. Certainly as a cigar guy,
covering a shortfall with attacks on cigar stores and cigars
in general is.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
A serious issue.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
The tax should be on lawyers and kail sir, not
on cigars. It was a real abuse by the Reportublicans.
But one of the things that we look at in
the idea of growth is the idea of business growth.
And there's been a tremendous amount of talk regarding data
centers and data centers coming to Indiana.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
And we see now the power the.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Electricity issues that come with these data centers, never mind
the question of what kind of jobs are are we
talking about? New Jersey residents have seen a power bills
triple because of well regulation here. These data centers say
so much power. We're also seeing increases in these costs.
(03:35):
Is Indiana a place for these data centers to come?
Are we actively trying to attract them to be here?
Speaker 4 (03:43):
They want to come to Indiana because of the business
climate in general?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Do we want to do.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
That's a great question, and to me, it's very analogous
to it's in the energy category. They are voracious. They
use one big data center can use up to five
percent of what we currently produce, and there's not hardly
any new generation coming online due to how difficult that is.
(04:09):
And when they came on the scene along with chip factories,
it spiked that and they use a lot of water
to boot, where one of fifteen states has probably got
enough water to do it. But it's very analogous to
wind and solar. You saw where that really did well
for a short period of time until it started getting
involved with local rule versus property owners' ability to do
(04:35):
what they want. Then a desire to do a state
template to make it easy for more wind and solar.
That's kind of found it's water level. Data centers are
worse because they use electricity and it takes four to
five years even to stand up a natural gas facility.
I'm trying to lead on small modular reactors for more
(04:59):
general I usual to do yes, and we've got we're
at the leading edge of it because Purdue is the
place that's spent the most time on and it's the
same process that powers our aircraft carriers in submarines very safe.
It eliminates almost all the concerns in terms of safety,
and the whole nuclear industry has run with a stellar
(05:22):
record Posts Three Mile Island and so forth. Very familiar
with it because we discussed it a lot in the Senate.
That doesn't mean we need to have them all. And
unless they're going to pay for most of the generation
they're going to need, it's going to take away from
others in terms of households and business growth.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So we've got to tread carefully. The school is still
out on it.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I think we're going to need it because AI is
going to be in demand. That's a geopolitical issue and
here we just need to make sure we don't do
something that hampers normal growth and.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Get it right. So I'm going to be careful.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
There a lot of people want to come to Indiana
to do them because we've got a good business climate.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Talking to Governor Mike Brown, Governor of Indiana, and I
would agree. I am a fan of nuclear power and
I have been for some time. And if we want
to be a place that has nuclear power and therefore
can provide power to these data centers, I want to ensure.
I want to know from you that we're not giving
away the farm to get the data center.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
If we've got the power.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And we've got the land, and we've got the people,
you're lucky to be here.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I don't think we need to be.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Engaging in giveaways for the data center, which leads us
to what is it that we're trying to attract. You
made changes to the IEDC. You changed that composition, really
changing the outlook. This seems to be much more small
business focused, much more Indiana focused, and not focused on there.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
There's nobody in biotech, nobody in AI.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You just brought that up, Nobody in these major growth industries,
in technological industries that right now is part of the IEDC.
It doesn't seem to be where you're going to attract business.
Do you view the IEDC as a vehicle to attract
business to Indiana?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Definitely.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
It's just that the focus is going to be to
where we see the benefits across the state. And as
I've used the term fertilize the field of entrepreneurs in
main street. That doesn't mean we're going to disregard some
of the best larger companies industries that want to come here,
but we're going to scrutinize it carefully and that's why
(07:35):
we reconstituted the full IEDC board with people with that
general perspective, and I embraced an audit, you know, to
see what has been going on so that we get
legitimacy back into the IEDC and make sure like elevate Ventures,
which is a wonderful purpose of trying to provide capital
(07:58):
to startups and lead as businesses, but it's got to
be done to where we can see what's going on.
We've got to make sure we're not spending too much
money to do that, so you take a total look
at it, and this means we'll do the best of
what we think needs to be done so that we're
not overlooking some of the larger opportunities.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
But I want to make it to where.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Main street and small businesses have their doors knocked on
in terms of what can we.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Do to help them.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I'm not opposed to knocking on the doors of main Street,
but I'm giving you if you have not heard this,
the IDC makeup makes it look like we're not interested
in attracting big stuff and engage in big ideas. The
idea of building main Street has value, not to the
(08:47):
idea that we're going to forsake larger scale projects that
bring larger scale opportunity, and that's what your id DC
picks look like you're doing.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I want to make it clear that's wrong extrapolation and
they're not mutually exclusive. We're going to do both. In
building a business over thirty seven years, you can never
get locked into either this or that. You had to
look at it broadly, and here we got forty nine
other competitors states that want to kind of do the
same thing. I feel well equipped to know the difference
(09:21):
between how we address main street how we address larger entities,
and we're going to do well at both. I'd say
that is a kind of an extrapolation that doesn't make sense.
And I'm telling you officially, we're going after the best
of both. We're going to broaden it out and I've
got a crew there in the IEDC. We're going to
(09:42):
get the audit under our belt and make sure that
whatever we do is done with full transparency going forward
and accountability. And I feel good about that as well.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Talking to Governor Mike Broun, the governor of Indiana before
I let you go, sir, as we all know, the
nonsen is the stuff that buries you. It sinks you.
You've seen it enough to know it.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
To be true.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
You have a Secretary of State, Diego Morales, that takes
hit after hit for travel and maybe how he is
representing or misrepresenting himself to other nations. You have this
story regarding the Lieutenant Governor Micah beckw with and some
video which nobody has proven to me exists. And I
am not calling the man guilty at all until I
(10:27):
see proof of it, and I do not know if
I trust the source that says that the video exists.
What you have, however, are these distractions Your argument has
been and you made this argument to my counterpart timer
Nigel just yesterday that if it was in your office,
you would get to the bottom of it. Sir, with
(10:48):
all due respect to the Governor of Indiana, leadership means leading.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Have you told either one of these.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Offices to get their heads out of their butts and
stop this nonsense, answer the questions and stop making your
life difficult.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Meeting with Micah Beck was here later this morning because
that's probably reached the level of and I agree with you,
we don't know the facts underlying it. Definitely side shows
and distractions making headlines for the wrong reasons, been out
there for a long time saying it.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Hopefully.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
It reminds me of high school students that get out
of line and you've got to bring them back in
sooner or later, even if you're giving them latitude. They
are their own separate offices, each having its own accountability.
But yes, sooner or later there's an accumulation to where
you'll have to weigh in and make sure that it's
(11:44):
either fixed and you focus on the good things that
we've been doing as a state government. And if not,
it's going to be to your detriment when you come
back into the political arena and you're going to be
chalking up a lot of debts and not credits. And yes,
the pressure from my office Leader of the State will
(12:04):
be increasingly so to get back on track, get rid
of the side shows and distractions.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Will there be any pressure on the second day of
State's office to show full transparency regarding flights to foreign
countries and conversations had with those countries that as well.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
When I've been clear, unequivocating on transparency and accountability, and
when you've got companion offices that seem to not be
embracing it. Yes, that'll be a message coming out of
this office. Clear it up, show us quit heighten behind something.
If you think that there's nothing there, prove it, and
(12:42):
there'll be more emphasis coming from the office because neither
office has seemed to self correct. It's getting to the
point where it is too much of a distraction. And
like I say, I'm meeting with the Lieutenant Governor here
in about an.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Hour or so, you'll see more of that. It's a
shame you have.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
To weigh in on it, especially when you look at
all that we've accomplished in nearly eight months.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Governor Mike Brown, I appreciate you coming on. We will
have more of these conversations. Mike bron the Governor of Indiana.
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