February 9, 2025 • 56 mins
Gus Worland has devoted his life to saving lives and being a solid dad and husband.
After losing a mentor and father figure to suicide, Gus co-founded Gotcha 4 Life, an organisation committed to reducing the male suicide rate to zero.
Gus shares the moment he found out his own dad was gay, advice for dads with young kids and how to keep your friendships alive as a dad. Plus, with 30 years of marriage under his belt, Gus shares how he and his wife first met.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ash. One question we like to ask our guests on
the podcast is their proposal story.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Yes, and Gus has quite a unique one.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I think this would be my favorite of all the
proposal stories we've had. This is number one.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
You're only seeing movies usually where people ask someone to
marry them on the first date.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
What a maniac? What an idiot? Seem to have paid off,
but didn't expect the best story to come from Oh Gussie.
Now you might know Gus from his work as a
sports commentator. He was also working at Triple M until
he decided to hang up the headphones after a massive
sixteen years and put all his energy into Gotcha for Life.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Got through such a great organization that emerged from such
devastating circumstances.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, Gus lost his mentor and basically a father figure
who died as a result of suicide. This ultimately led
to him building an organization that is dedicated to getting
the male suicide rate down to zero. So if you
or anyone you know is struggling, you can call Lifeline
on thirteen eleven fourteen. Further info will be available in
the show notes. Gus is married to VICKI.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I have three kids and he's an advocate for opening
up discussions around really important issues amongst men.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
He also gives us a bit of advice on how
to stay happily married after what is it like thirty years?
Thirty years?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
It was actually his thirtieth anniversary when we did this chat,
which was awesome because he'd spent time with us and
not as well.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Anyway, here is the conversation. Enjoy, Welcome back to three
doting dads. I am Addie, Jay, I'm Ash and I'm
(01:42):
Gus warn And this is a podcast all about parenting.
It is the good, it is the bad and the relatable.
And Gussie, we can I call you Gussie of course, Gussie.
We don't give any advice here, Ash and I occasionally
we will if you'd like to give advice. You can
give advice if it's not advice, but it's stories that
shouldn't be taken as advice. Perfect. We like to just
(02:04):
pre warn everybody.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Yeah, I think I'm probably more of a preacher than
I expect myself to be or want to be.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
But that comes with, you know.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Maturity and being fifty six a couple of days ago,
and you know, I'm sort of I could be your
father easily.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Happy birthday, by the way, me, yeah, forty six.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
No, I'm just thirty fourty four. I'm thirty seven. And
that's part of the reason why we were excited to
talk to you, because we always mentioned as a hierarchy
of parents, and when we speak to someone who's got
children younger than us, we then preached down to that.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Speak to someone, Oh I remember when that was happening.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
You're much wiser because you're far higher on the hierarchy
of parenthood.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Maybe I'm not one hundred percent sure about that, but
I reckon that definitely is to go though in terms
of like, you know, you look around and you think, oh, well,
I've been here and done that, and I find myself
saying over and over again, oh, take in every moment, yeah,
je it goes quickly.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
And I'm like, before even we're guilty of that.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
At the park, someone's the newborn and I'm like, oh.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Before you know, it becomes part of your small dog,
and you're just like, ah, it goes fast, doesn't it.
As soon as someone's like, yeah, he's just turned one,
you're like, and just to keep the conversation, you're like,
oh my god, that wents so fa, and ever we're thinking, no,
it fucking didn't so.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Long. Wait to be over. Now that I've got three
kids away from home.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
So Abby's twenty one, she's in Canada, Jack and Ella
have been in England for four and three years.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I find myself going, gee, it goes fast.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
I remember when my and then one of the children,
and then I tell them about, well you're doing now,
just as if they're passed through it.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
But they happen.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
One is like hello or something like that, and I'll
just get into that and that gives me two three minutes,
few stories.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Oh why England. Oh, then my wife and I can
go forever. After that point, I have no doubt.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Before we chat about your kids, I'm going to test
your memory here, Gus. We always like to start off
and see what I guess were like when they were
much younger. I'm talking about you know, teenage years even earlier,
if you can recall that far back. Yeah, what were
you like as a young man?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
I was a chubby happy, lots of mates around me,
lots of sport. Put me in a box and I
was happy. As soon as I was sort of a
little bit outside of that box.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I was no good. So I went to a school
that was a boaters and blazer and loved it.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
My brother, two years a enemy, couldn't wait to leave,
went to America to finish off his schooling.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I was just a happy, happy little kid who just.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Loved to eat and loved sugar and loved like soft
drinks and stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
And remind me of someone else on this podcast who's
a little similar, cut from the same class.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
This guy.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Yeah, I mean you and I are very similar from
what I've known from the time we spent together. All
was up for a laugh, always seeing the funny side
of things. But I think it comes with an authentic
sort of good heart as well, you know, which is
I like to think that too. I was always told, oh,
you wear your heart on your sleeve.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
I was the one that cried. I was the one
that gave people hugs and stuff. And I told girls
after a date and a half that I love them
and I'd be perfect on you know, some sort of
you know, showed like that on TV. I don't know
if there's one available.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
We're very happily married, but the Golden Bachelor is casting
at the moment.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
I did say that to my wife she's a lucky
lady thirty years today. Yes, congratulations, And we're talking about
that too, because she sent me a photo of her
and her wedding dress this morning.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
She said it to the family WhatsApp because our kids
are very proud of us.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Did she send it in the family watch to remind
you that today's the day?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It was to day? But I think she just wanted to.
I don't know. It was a nice memory for her.
And she looks fantastic.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
In fact, you know, she's slimmer than she was all
those years ago, and I think you know, she's been
working hard on herself. So I think that was a
really nice little moment. And our kids just dropped straight
into how long is it again? And Mum, you look
wonderful and.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
All that stuff. So it was just a nice sort
of start of the start of the day, and I
started the day for us.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
We had talked about you wearing your heart on your sleeve.
Where does that come from? Do you think? Is that
because I know that you've spoken about your dad leaving
when you were quite young?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Is that because you spent a lot of time then
with your mum?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
I think so, And also other mates mums as well.
So Dad left officially when I was ten, but he
was sort of out of there probably around I was
about two. And I found out when I was eighteen
that he actually left Mum for a male who is
still with now. His name's Ian, who's an absolute bloody champion.
But I didn't know that at the time. So Mum
(06:59):
and Dad got really well. And then one day I
came home from school. I remember it so well.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
There was boxes at the door, but there was nothing
in them. I thought, that's weird.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
D And then as I sort of you know, got
out of my school gear and you know, I started
mucking around with my brother, the boxes started to be
filled with stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And then Dad was putting him in his car, and
I thought that was all weird.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Was it tense between you Mum and Dad in that moment?
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Or Mum was getting along with everything she normally did,
baking a cake and making this dinner, and I just
thought it was weird.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Maybe there was a clear out or something in my head.
But I've always lived in a bubble.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
I've always lived in a bubble where I've never really
totally understood what's going on at any time, And that
was a perfect example of that.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And then Mum and Dad sat down and said, we've
got something to tell you.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
You know, Dad's not going to be living here full
time and whatever, and I literally and I love my
food I was spoken about already. I threw him a
plate I remember so well because I hadn't started yet,
three cutlets, mashed potato and veggies, and I'm remember I.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Getting a good, good meal, a good meal, and I
smashed the china up against the thing.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
And then I ran down to my mate's place and
I worked out later that mum rang said he must
be down there, and the mum got that message from mum,
this is what's happened, and she said, I look after
him until he calms down. And I stayed there a
couple of nights. Eventually went back. Dad had left and
it was just Mum, me and my brother. And Mum
was a very loving person, so maybe it was to
(08:26):
do with that, but I think it was my personality
from a young kid as well.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You must have been angry.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Do you remember what your emotion was then?
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Like? Definitely anger and just like it was probably the
first time that I remember where I absolutely didn't understand
and was confused and all that stuff, and I think
at twelve years of age, you're probably like that.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Anyway.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Yeah, I was trying to work stuff out. And then
I went to school the next day and spoke to
my mates, and a few of them sort of said, oh,
I think my mum and dad will be the same,
or my mum and dad live in separate rooms, or
they have the same room but two single beds. Now
it's from a double to a single. And I was like, oh,
I thought everyone's life was sort of perfect. Yeah, And
(09:05):
that was my first thing. And I spoke to my
brother about it. My brother's much less emotional than me.
He just goes, mate, that's just the way it is.
And then about Dad, because I got really upset about Dad,
the fact that everyone else seemed to know and I
didn't know, why couldn't you trust me with this information?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Anyway?
Speaker 4 (09:21):
When I found out, first thing I did is had
to go home wring my brother because there was no
mobile phones. He was living in Chippendale. We were in Pimble,
so it was about an hour's drive and I said,
get your ass over here. How long have you known
about Dad? And he went, yep, on my way and
he came over and he had known since he was fourteen,
so he pretty much knew from the time Dad left,
(09:42):
and I just didn't understand why. And when I asked
them why, they said, well, your life was going so well,
like we didn't want to throw this curve ball that
you do.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Everyone was you were happy.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Do you think when you look back, do you like
I can appreciate why they were wanting to protect me.
Do you think the best thing was how it played out?
Or do you think no, I should have been told,
like it's such an important message and to be told
last that has worse effect than whether I was told upfront.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Well, the other thing totally. I'll answer that in a second.
I wasn't told by anyone in my family. So if
some of your listeners may know or have heard. A
bloke called John Newcomb who was a famous tennis player,
so he was like my second dad lived in the
same street, and Nuke actually took me out for dinner
to tell me on behalf of all the friends that
(10:30):
were all that knew, and we're wondering why I didn't know,
and we sat down. I remember so again another good
meal was because the spring rolls of the dim seems
like arrived on a plate and he goes by the way,
By the way, Dad's gay, and I was thinking, okay,
there's a joke in here, like an Irish man of
Scott's walk into a bar, like.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
What is this? And he goes, did you know?
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And I'm like, wow, hold on for a second, is
this what? And he goes, well everyone no, and was
wondering why you weren't talking about it?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So now I know you don't know?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
So how old at this point?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
So I was nineteen, So I done my gap year,
came back and was my first job doing marketing for
the new South Wales Open Tennis at White City, just
down the road here. And you took me out for
dinner because I've done a good job. That was the
what he'd said. And as I said, the demmis in
the springings r and before it could get my buddy
(11:26):
gob into one, he told me about Dad. So obviously
I was teared up. I was upset. There was a
lot of emotion there. I then went back home, rang
my brother, spoke to mom. Mum was furious that NU
could said anything. Yeah bad because that was her role.
And I was like, you've had eighteen years to say.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It, So that happened.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
She goes, I was dressed about it.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Next week, your Dad's go, yeah, that was on the
agenda for next week. We'll chat about it anyway.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
The next morning, I remember not getting a lot of
sleep that night, but the next morn hearing the doorbell
go and Nuke was there. And Nuke then said, I'm
really sorry if I overstepped, and they went through that
discussion as two adults would, and then Nuke offered to
send me to America, which is where my dad was,
so I could have that conversation face to face.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Back in the day. He was like, Nuke had to
deal with Kanas.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
So he had tickets literally sitting in his top desk
and you can fill them in on where you wanted
to go, Like, so has he only left now? It's like, oh,
on the computer, but he so that afternoon I flew
to LA and then LA to Vegas where Dad was.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
What was that conversation like with your dad?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
So I took two days to bring it up, so
you didn't know while you were there, he said why
are you here? Definitely when he saw me, and I said,
I knew, you know, sprung this trip on me.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Because I did a good.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Job with the tennis and blah blah blah and no worries. Meanwhile,
my brother's rung my dad and said he's coming over.
He's coming in hot So this is a story. So
my dad's waiting for me to tell the story. I'm
to gutlass to tell the story. And then eventually, after
a couple of days, we're around the pool and I said, Dad, actually,
the reason I'm here is.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
This and the longest discussion my father and I've ever had.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
It win for hours, and I remember it being really sunny,
and by the time we finished, I had my tower
around me by the pool, like it can get quite
cold in the desert at night anyway, and then we
went out and had the most fantastic night. And Ian,
whose dad's partner still now, as I said, he was
there and I just gave him the biggest harga and
I said, mate, like, this is nothing on you. I
(13:32):
just need to work this stuff out myself. But you're
You're like an uncle to me. I love you like
another dad.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Did you did you know Ian at all prior to this?
It was the first time you met him on that room.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
He's always been dad's business partner Averted Commas, so he's
always been Ian and Dad Neine have lived together but
separate rooms. And I'm like, oh, that's just like my mates.
When I grow up, I'm going to live with my mates.
So that's this is this bubble I was talking about.
I remember going to Whale but each once we had
a place down there and my girlfriend and I, Jackie,
just came up from the beach and Dad always said
(14:02):
ring before you come to the house, right, And one
of these days I was like, bug of that. I'm
just going to go up, jump in the pool. It's
freshen up for the drive home. Well I turned up
and it was like it was like the village people
y M c A Or rolled into one. The music
was going, they had the hooch on the go. There
was like thirty blokes all in speedo's.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Dad's got a lot of mates.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Even then, I'm not going, oh my dad might be gay.
I'm going that's a whole lot of mates and that's
really cool. Yeah, And to dad.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Then come out and we have a chat and have
a swim and you say gooday to everyone, and then
I leave and they're like, well that that's obviously going
to and that made Jackie, my partner at the time,
talk to my mates and say, well, I don't think
he has a clue because like he's literally literally walked
into Mardi Gras on a float and hasn't and hasn't
worked it out.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
What was it like when when your dad left? My
mum and dad split when I was about twelve as well,
And for me it left a really big void that
I wanted to feel for that father figure.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
What was it like for you? I definitely wanted at field.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
I found it with Nuke and I found it with
Angus Roberts, who was my mentor, who took his own life.
That started got your for life for me. So two
very big personalities. Plus there's parts of my mate's dads
that I went, oh, I love that. That's really good.
So I would be one of the kids sometimes talking
to the parents when the kids were outside having a laugh.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Not for long, but I would not just be straight
in and out and fun and pulls. I would be interested.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
So there was a few fathers like Jacko's father Chris Jackman,
who was an absolute bloody. He's a tyrant at times,
very religious and stuff, very different to me, but I
would learn some discipline things from him, some hard work.
Don't keep giving yourself treats. You know, I'm a great
one of do something good treat.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
I went to the gym last night, came home in
an ice cream.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I was like, yeah, you could have easily just had
the ice cream.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I could have, but I felt like I needed his
don't encourage him, encourage me, get a little something something.
How did you meet Angus?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
So Angus was my cousin's boyfriend, then my cousin's husband,
and I loved him so much. When I did Year
twelve like a work experience, I worked for him at
Trinity Prep School.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
He's a PE teacher. And then four or five years later,
when I'd finished.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
School, I was goofing around and my wife was teaching
at PLC Pimble as a PE teacher to Posh School
up on the North Shore, and Angus came up behind
me and sort of put his arm around me and said,
time for you to, you know, start doing some stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I was like, what, life's good and he's like, mate,
time for you to, you know, put your head down
and find something that you're going to do.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
A bit old school but I probably needed it.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
And then he got me a job working at Tashiba
selling laptop computers, which was when laptops were ten grand
apiece and only the bosses had them. Perfect time. Eight
years later I finished off after working at Tsheba in
a few different countries.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
We gave the computer.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Away as long as you bought the dongle for BT
Telecom or whatever it was. It was all about that,
not the actual hardware. So I went through really at
the start, all the way to what is very normal
now is a laptop. And he taught me everything. He
was bloody fantastic and I never worked a day at
Tsheba after.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
He died, not one day, No one day. It was like,
it's just it was just a I couldn't do it.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
I went to to Sheba, Australia to try to find
a note because I was in England when he took
his own life. So I went back to Shea and
I walked into his office and I looked everywhere to
see that just made no sense to me that he
would do that, but never found it.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
And then I've never known anything at to Sheba since.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
How do you digest that type of grief? Finding someone
who played such a pivotal role in your life is
now gone really badly.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
The first maybe five years, I should just get drunk
on the anniversary, shout at him, call him names.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I used to go to the.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Spot, my spot, what I cause, our spot, and just
be so angry and sad. And then I learned some
stuff and I was brave enough. I supposed to talk
about it on The Grill Team, which was a very
blokey show. We'd never show vulnerability. We always just told
jokes and gave away tickets and talked sport. And I
asked Maddie John's and MG one morning if I could
(18:28):
talk about my friend, and I said, we've been doing
the show for six years. I reckon, our listeners are loyal,
they're ready for this, and we went, okay, let's see
here we go. And so I told the story of
Angus took his own life on the day that his
third and final child finished their hsc Oh my god,
so what should have been a celebration and it had
been such a tough time. And then how many people
(18:49):
were at the funeral? Thousands? Literally, they loved him, and
no one had a clue, And the end of the
break you know what it's like in radio three or
four minutes go to a song, and every line at
Triple M was buzzing and just needed to be picked up.
And people were going, I want to tell my story,
so that we gave them permission.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
To talk about something.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
So I drove home to Eleanora and said to my wife,
just on the small little team at the grill team,
we had ninety minutes of phone calls back to back.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
We didn't play another song, not another news report, not
another traffic report. All morning.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
We just went literally one person after another, going this
is what happened to me, This is what happened to me,
This is what happened to me.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I realized how many people are worrying alone.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
So I was able to get some money from the
ABC and do the Man Up program, and then from
Man Up came Gotcha for Life, And every day I
now talk about my friend.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
When was this? How long ago?
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Twenty sixteen was when I spoke about it. Twenty sixteen,
I did Man Up. Twenty seventeen we started Gotcha, So
we're eight years into Gotcha now.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
It doesn't sound like a long time, eight years, but
like almost a decade ago. It was honestly never spoken
about all.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
We've been a part of that changing of the guard
and you guys were a part of that too. And
there's some other cool people like you guys that can
show a young person that you can be good looking
with tats but still talk with being authentic and real
and be it. You can still be a knock about,
you can still love a beer and you can have
a cry. You can tell the mate you love them.
(20:21):
You can just find the guts to actually talk, which
is what we've been told to man up and shut up.
It's actually man up and speak up, you know. And
it's not just males either. We lose seven blokes a day,
two women a day, but every eight minutes someone attempts
and most of those are women. So we've got to
get to the point where we put a line in
the sand in this country and say I don't want
(20:42):
to live in Australia like that. And we're getting there,
but it takes time and it's going to be generational.
You guys, with your children will definitely be different to
how your dad was with you, and it would be
better in terms of us being more human and less
puffing your chest out and I think one of.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
The questions that a lot of people have definitely spoken
about the topic, and we often get this is someone
who maybe thinks that they may need to speak to
a friend who's not doing well. How do you approach
that conversation? You know, r uok day is one that
has a lot of momentum, but at the same time,
it's how do you get from the surface level to
actually getting deeper into understanding how someone's coping mentally?
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Eat practice? You know, you can't do it one day
like I do heaps of work for Auoka. I love
it and their tagline is a conversation can save a life, absolutely,
but how do you have the conversation?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
That's the problem.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Like people like us who are communicators might be a
bit easier, but I still find it hard to go
away from banter into a proper discussion with a friend.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
That I love well.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
I had one this morning with the mate, and I'm
just like, I'm thinking about it, I'm thinking about it,
I'm breathing heavily, and eventually I went, mate, this, I've
got to talk to you about something that's really awkward.
And as soon as I said that, he knew it
wasn't going to be talking about if other Risks is
going to make the top eight next year or stuff
we normally talk about all the cricket that's just just
played an adelaide, so that all that sort of stuff happening.
(22:05):
You've got to practice having conversations of gravity, and the
only way you do that is by starting, and people go,
I don't know how to do it, Bumble and fumble
your way through. Send them a text, send them an email,
write them a letter. You don't need to have the
face to face tears running down the eyes combat, because
that's bloody hard. But to say to someone I need
to talk to you about something that's quite sensitive, or
I want to have an adult conversation, whatever you want
(22:27):
to talk about, get it out there in a way
that's easy for your technology. I mean, we've literally got
our phones attached to us, so we all know how
to send a text.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
So do that, but start it. There's too many people
not having conversations they should be having.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I think as much easier not to start it. That
makes sense, So oh you know, mum, maybe I'll start
a conversation next time. I found that, like with some
of my friends, if I sort of if I'm telling
them a story about something's happening with me, usually that
they'll find something that relates and then that's how the
conversation will begin. Usually so daunting to have a conversation
with someone on a different level.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
That you're not used to having.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
You're sort of usually at this surface level of like
Bandspan's bands as the boys when we're comfortable, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
You're all right. I mean a listen straight and it is.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
It is Award Jokers anyway like that. That's where we're comfy.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, it's a gear change that is a lot harder
to get into.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I've got to build a safe place, Mattie.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
So you can't be chatting away band to Panda banda,
watching the game, having a few beers at a local
partment and go by the way, oh, I need to
tell you something. Pick your moment. Yeah, you've got to
be safe. And they look around and gore, we what's
happened here?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
What?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Well?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I thought we were just fucking around all of a sudden.
It's like, at the end of that conversation you say, hey,
can we have a coffee this week? It's something I
really want to talk to you. About and you're absolutely
right about showing some vulnerability yourself. And as soon as
you say some vulnerability, people go, I know exactly what
you mean. Actually, I wouldn't mind talking to you about that.
You've built the safety for them to have that conversation.
(23:54):
So I keep talking about and I'm working on a
keynote at the moment about leading with vulnerables.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
How do you lead with vulnerability rather than walk away.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
From it, which is what certainly your parents have been
taught and maybe some of you guys too in your thirties,
certainly fifty six, I'm like, oh, vulnerability or I don't
want to show that weakness. Nah, that's actually not a weakness,
it's a strength.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Is that we had the idea for the boys don't cry.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Yeah, so basically boys don't cry, and then we'd slash
through the NT so it's boys do cry. I just
love kids, and I loved being a dad when the
kids were particularly small, like sort of at many many
sort of kids three four, five, six, Yeah, pretty much
where our mental And I also realized, after eight years
(24:45):
of doing gotcha, we've just started a primary school's program.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
So anyone listening.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Here that have kids at primary school, and you want
your primary school to be a mentally fit primary school
and have that stamp at the front. Get involved because
it won't cost the school anything. It's a fully funded
program where we want to get the kids, the parents,
and the teachers and all the staff mentally fit. I
start having those discussions like, you know, if you have
(25:10):
your five veggies and your fruits and stuff that'll make
you better, Well, what are the exercises for the emotional muscle?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And that is more important than anything.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
And we are basically told by people that are emotional muscle,
especially boys, it's turned off at a rudy young age
and it can be just falling in the playground and
one of the older kids calling you a name and
you go, oh, that's obviously not behave you were allowed
to do, and we just turn it off. And blokes
are in their thirties, forties and fifties now trying to
turn it back on again.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Gussie, I feel like you're very modest, so I'm going
to give you a compliment. I'm sure you're not going
to want to take it, but it's really incredible to
see the work that you're doing and you're like, fuck,
if only do are more Gusses in this world, but
your dedication to such an amazing cause is awesome. So
well done.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Thank you, Maddie.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I appreciate that. If you said that to my wife,
who who is equally in this whole thing, she's English, right,
she deflect stuff. I will accept that because it is
bloody hard work, soak it up and it's nice to
hear that from you. But like you celebrate for a
New York minute, I don't know if you guys know
what a New York minute is, but it's basically the
(26:15):
time that the traffic lights go from red to green
and the first honk of the horn, right, So that's
a real short amount of time. Like we've had the
last two years, a slight decrease in suicide, like forty
three people, and you think, oh forty three people in
three thousand, say hey, forty three people, and families and
communities and clubs haven't been affected this year, and then
(26:36):
we were last year. So we're going to celebrate that,
But then we realize that it's the number one way
to die if you're a young Australian male or female
fifteen to forty four is suicide.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
So we're not accepting it, but we're saying we're on
the right track.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
You were talking about Vicki and we had to stop
you before we record it actually because you're talking about
how you and Vicki Matt Yeah, and we were like, wow,
this is good, this is good, this is good. What
was his name, Roger Roger.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
We not talk about Roger.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
So what happened was I went on a gap year
to England nineteen eighty seven, and I had a girlfriend
and I loved this girl, been with her all the
way through like year eleven and twelve, and she was
going to France to do she'd done four unit French
school and she wanted to go and live in France
because that's a proper.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Way of learning rather than through a book.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
And by the time I saw her at the Easter break,
I'd broken up with her because I knew I was
in love with this other girl. But this other girl
had this boy called Roger who was her boyfriend, and
her name was Vicky.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Roger. Actually, Roger's a really nice.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
As I'm saying that, I'm like, he's probably like.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Roger's fund of the podcast to be listening in.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
And anyway, they went out and had been going out
for years, right, so I just sort of, you know,
it's fair enough. And then Vix came out to Australia
and he came out with her, so it's a bit annoying.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
And then they broke up on their bigs like six
week trip through you know, I want you going home,
see you mate, So I did that and then Vix
and I.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Nothing ever happened, but it just stuck in my mind
and all my friends said, look, it's obvious that what's
going on here and blah blah blah. So three years later,
three years so I wrote her once a week for
three years, like aerograms, which is.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
You look, it's basically a smoke signal. Well, I saw
a sky ride other day and I was like, old school, Well,
this is.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Really old school. So it's a bit of paper you
got from the post office.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Post officer and you're right on it, and then it
folds into an envelope and then that gets sent by the.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Stamp on the stand, the STA stamp get the fut
and I used to send those and Vix.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Has still got them. In fact, they're in our garage.
I saw them the other day.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
So I send one a week every week and she'd
send maybe one every couple of months, right, So she
was very much sort of like that that's in Australia.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I was definitely like, let's the equivalent of double text message? Yeah, yeah,
more than like maybe eight and I did that with
my wife, So I'm with you, we'll play.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
So eventually I went to England and asked her to
marry me the night that I first saw her, the
first night I saw her.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
So it was it was like it was a letter
a letter relationship up until that point, just all letters.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
That's right after after knowing each other for two years.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Hang on a second, I've just got I've got to
pull you up on something. I always thought, who are
these people out there who are asking someone to marry
them without at least like testing the waters their maniacs?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You're that person, I'm that person, but Vicki is not
because she told me to fuck off.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Okay, so smart.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
So all this big build up, fly a Heathrow gets
the bloody trained to Bath and then the badger line
Bucks from Bath to Wells walked into the public at
at lunchtime. She's on a UNI break, so she's working
the bar to pay off her UNI loan and I
walked straight up to her, chatting Da Da Da, and
she goes, I'm working till three, then we'll go into
(30:38):
town and whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
And then that night she's back working again.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
So I just sat and of course I knew people
because I've been at that school, so I knew some people.
So got drunk as a skunk, and then we said,
all right, we're going to go to this nightclub in
Shepton Mallet. Don't ever go to Shephar Mallet if you've
give them the opportunity. And about three in the morning,
you know, of course I've got through jet lag. I
was buzzing again and said the reason I'm here is
(31:01):
because I want to marry you, and she was just
like fuck off. And the next morning I heard her
on the phone or her mum's saying, Guss is here.
He asked me to marry him, And then there was
a big silence, which I imagine her mum's going, what.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
A fucking idiot. I always told you that guy, he's
got a good heart, but he's fucking.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Is he the one that every week?
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, that's talker guy.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
What about Roger?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
But you're thinking about Roger?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Yeah, But there was another guy at YUNI, which I
found out later was hovering and anyway, so Vix was sensible.
She goes, well, hey, I've always it's obvious that we've
always had, you know, a little spark. So I'll tell
the bloke at UNI that we're not going to start
and let's have a crack you and I and I
went that sounds good.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
So she went back to Plymouth.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
I drove down every Wednesday in the fruit van from
the pub, and we basically spent about a month or
so before She then said to me one night, I
actually do want to marry you, like I actually I've
been in love with you for all that time and
I just needed to have a little bit of like,
you know, just some sort of like a kiss, so
(32:12):
she went. So then we said a long engagement. She
had two years left at UNI, so when we have
two years in her first year as a teacher, so
that's three year engagement. That's a good you know, If
we're still mates after that, then let's go. If not,
well say well it's it is what it is. And
as I said, today is thirty years.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Wow, that's a beautiful story.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
That's a good story.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, we met at a pub once and then then
we got.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Married and it was like fuck you literally walked up
and said, I'll just marry you.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, and she told me to fuck off. Yes, pretty much.
Great conversation become more and more similar.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Asy your brother is a screenwriter.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, yes, I don't know. That's a good point, Like
come on, come on, Steve, sure that to me?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Screams like Matt and I would like a cameo in
that movie The Bar.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
You could play me, like back in the day.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
You must have been really handsome. You have to lose
the We're very keen to talk about life with teenage
kids because Ash and I are trying to figure out
what we have in store for ourselves. But before we
do that, what was it like that transition to becoming
a dad. Was it something that you hit the ground
(33:30):
and running.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
No, definitely not. I was so excited.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
So Vix and I had eight pregnancies for our three kids,
so we lost twins sort of midway through.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Teen weeks, We've told people. So that was really difficult,
and then we couldn't get pregnant for a little while.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
I didn't know that and it's and it's really you
don't talk about it until someone mentions it, and then
you go, actually me too, or yeah, you know, vulnerability
happens a lot, and then you feel like you've got
permission to talk about it. That's the great thing about
what I'm doing got your life is we need to
give guys per mission to talk.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
About Because Woodsy said the same thing, your close friend
Woodsy Yeah, because he went through a couple of miscarriages
too in the and felt like he couldn't talk about
it in the change room. And then when he did
talk about it, some of the other players came out
and said, we lost one too, and it's crazy that
mentioning it.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
People.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Then everything up.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
You've given me the net, You give me the net,
the permission and all exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
So when I remember Victory.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
I was, I was drinking like Chinese potions and all
this stuff. And then if she had I'd come home
to the fertility yeah, to whatever, you know, and I
went and did.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
She was poisoning you.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
In an Eastern medicine way, which is play on.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
And so basically we then eventually won't go through that
story too much, but we got pregnant and then Jack
arrived and the excitement was incredible, you know, healthy baby boy,
absolute champion, huge, massive melon. Everyone loved him. He was
just this little nugget who he just smile at everyone.
(35:06):
He used to eat and just be happy. But I
found it hard to find my place. I would come home,
I was all excited, and as soon as I sort
of picked him up, he was like my man.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
He was sort of going towards mum. So it took
me a little while.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
And I believe me talking about being vulnerable, I wasn't
vulnerable with my mates. I would say everything was awesome,
because that's what I meant to say, But actually what
I was thinking was is what's my place here? What's
my Vix got her role, she's nailing it, and I'm
just this big bullfeed that doesn't seem to know what
he's doing. Until Vix came up with the idea of
like when you get home, you do the bath, you
(35:44):
do the shower, you do the dry in, put the
cream on the just make him all snuggled and then
bring him down for me for his last feed before
he goes to bed.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I had something to do, you know, and I got
good at it, you know, And I created a space
for us to have fun.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
And I remember being in a bath and Jack just
sitting on my chest and he just felt for the
first time, I felt he wants to be with me.
And then there's some times I went, it's taken in
the shower now and see if the shower goes on
his you know, the water going down his face, and
he'd go.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
But he liked it, and I'd take him out of
it and back in and he'd giggle.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
And then I found this nice comfy towel and brought
ten of them to make sure that we always had
one not in the wash, and I would just wipe
him down and blah blah blah and get him ready
and then bring him down to Vix and I was like,
forty five minutes.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Ah, it was the best.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
And now if you ask my kids, they would all
say that there's no doubt they absolutely adore We adore
each other, you know, there's no way around that. And
they can tell us stuff that probably a lot of
kids don't tell their parents, and Vix and I are
super proud of that. How do you get there by
(36:56):
being authentic and real and not blowing smoke up their ass?
And a lot of parents muck it up through the
times when the kids are a bit rebellious and stuff.
They are so much their own parents that they end
up talking nonsense to their kids because their kids are
growing up in a world that is so different to
the world that mum and dad grew up in. So
(37:16):
just take a moment and listen and ask the question,
this is how I feel? You tell me how you feel, rather.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Than what are you doing? You're a disgrace. I told
you not to do this.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
You're ground and all this this, this is what happened
twenty thirty years ago.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So you've got to learn what world the kids are
in now. And parents aren't great listeners as in general.
I worry like I for me, like we were saying,
our kids is still quite young. You've got how old
you're youngest?
Speaker 5 (37:44):
Now?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Twenty one? Wow, she's just arrived in Whistler, doing you
know a season?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
You know our little one where empty nest is last Tuesday,
last Thursday?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah, wow, good week in see I see teenage and
I've got a boy, my elder and I'm worried because
I see all these teenagers now down the shops and
they're dickheads.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
And I was a dickhead, and it's like, how did
you were you a dickhead? Really? Yeah you were? Okay?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, I was the typical teenager where I got arrested,
I did dumb ship.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
I know if that's typical, bro is it okay? Anyway?
Teenager where I would burn a house down and still like,
you know what.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
That was my thing.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
The question I'm getting to is when you had your
eldest is a boy too, like through that teenage hood? Like,
do you have any any advice for me? And Matt sure, Like,
I'm the only thing I worry about.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I don't know why. Well a lot to not be
a dickhead.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yeah yeah, Well telling him that you're a dickhead is
a really good start. Okay, you know that's easy, but
at the time, that's right. Say, hey, you're a part
of me. This is what I didn't start. I want
you to learn from from me. This is some of
the stuff that i't doesn't mean you can't have fun
and push the boundaries, but hey, learn it from me.
(39:08):
Blah blah blah. And that's a really good way to start.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
You.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Leading with vulnerability with him is really cool. I remember
I have not always nailed it, believe me. And having
someone like Vicky who's the school teacher smart completely is
brilliant for me, So I'm the fun side.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
She's a bit more of the serious and whatever. So
we got a good combo.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
But I remember Jack coming home from bally Boys, which
is you drive past Bally Boys, it looks like Shawshank Redemption.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
It does.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
But the school was absolutely brilliant for Jack, and it's
still continually brilliant. Got a great head master and everything
worked out well. But I just had these preconceived ideas
of high schools. My son should go to a private school,
and all the beers right, So we go. One day,
Jack comes home and he's got these little markings on
his hand, and there was seventeen of them. I said,
one of those markings goes I wrote down every time
(39:56):
someone called me a name today.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
So he's having a really bad day. And then he
got in his head about it, so he said, I'm
going to mark it down when they call me a
Dickey oly sh. It's terrible to hear that as a dad.
So I'm just like, I mean, you'll never go to
that school again. They're bullying you, and blah blah blah.
And I was on radio at the time. I had
to do a piece on the triple in Themorrow Morning
bag and that teacher and that, you know, or just
going nuts.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
Right by the time my wife got home, I got
him into the local Saint Augustin's, which was the local
sort of poshi school on the beaches, and that was that.
And I hadn't asked Jack what he really wanted. I
just got ahead of did it because that's what I did,
because I fixed stuff. I'm a fixer. Yeah, and then
Vis came home and said, slow down, let's ask Jack
(40:39):
what he wants. An hour later, she's ringing the school
saying he is coming back. You're not going to that school.
Jack's happy again, and it's all good. And then she
went to the school with Jack the next morning, explained
it went through, it all worked out, that kid's a dickhead,
brought that kid in, his parents came in, didn't realize
that kid was a dickhead.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Everyone sort of worked it all out, and eventually that
kid got expelled. Thank God for Vicky.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
I say that all the time. I literally say that
all the time.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
And there's times where she goes to me, Ah, you know,
sometimes I feel like I don't know my spot because
mum's in particular.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
And your your partners will go through this.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
You've definitely got a role and then all of a
sudden that role changes and it takes a while to
work it out.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
And Vix has definitely had that.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
But now she realizes that, you know, every time she
opens her mouth faced, kids are listening and they're getting
information in there, like she's awesome. And she works at
Gotcha too now, so she's she's teaching a whole lot
of kids about mental fitness and young girls speaking, you know,
with being authentic and real.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
I think it's also yeah, important you mentioned there to
listen to what your kid wants because at that age,
like five year olds, we've got now sometimes if someone
said to me, listening to what your kid wants, they'll
be he's like, I want to monster truck. But if
it's a fifteen year old, sixteen year old, they can articulate,
well they and well a ten or eleven year old
and he's marked down that someone's called your name.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
And he also had the guts to tell you.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
He could have been like, asked nothing, that's all.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Yeah, we could have just rubbed that off with yeah,
he actually came up, and I remember it so well
because I was doing Brecky Radio, so I used to
have like little like midday little sleep because I was.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
That sod all the time. And then I and then
he came up and he just lay on Vicky's side
of the bed. I remember it so well, and I said, oh,
what are those markings? Mate? What's that? What's that about?
Speaker 4 (42:27):
And he told me and he was quite didn't show
a lot of emotion, and he cried and that's when
I lost it.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
And then with an hour visits ordered it all out again.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
It's another one of those learning things for me, plus
doing the Man Up program. We actually took the cameras
into Jack School and we had like twenty kids sitting
there and I was watching it on the little monitor
in another room, and I watched twenty kids that I've
known since under six soccer all being emotional within fifteen
or twenty minutes, like literally just a little graze and
(42:56):
it was happening. And I realized realized these boys are
just little time bonds and they don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
How to talk about it. Suppressed so much, suppressed it
all the time, press it down.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
I remember as a teenager and I wasn't having a
really good something just wasn't. I was sick a few
times in a row and my friends were out doing something,
and I remember like I got to the point my
mum was like, why don't you go? And I just
and I for some reason, I just broke down and
I felt like I'd suppressed so much emotion that eventually
I when as soon as someone scratched the surface.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I was like fuck, like yeah, and it was mum, right,
So you felt Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I felt safe.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
But like if like you were saying, like they switch
off their you know.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Their emotional muscle, yeah, like, because that's that's going to
protect them, right. So I'm that type of boy, you know,
if I climb trees and I do stuff.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
And I'm the star and the sports team, and I
don't take school too seriously because that's sort of frowned
upon if that's what I'm meant to be, and in fact,
it's complete nonsense. And that doesn't mean that we burst
into tears every five minutes or have big, deeper, meaningfuls
all the time. But to be able to have that
skill is incredible, and that's what we're trying to build
at the moment.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Climb trees and cry.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah you can.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Essentially you can.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Be crying because you might go, oh shit, this is
really scary. But I'm going to have a crack and
do it.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Like we stop kids doing so much now that perhaps
we got up to you know, whether you you know
in prison or not.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
I've got a question. I don't know if this is
going to make sense. So you're gonna have to bear
with me for a second.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Sure, when I.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Think about my role as a parent with my girls,
I kind of think that I have a responsibility to
try and steer them in a certain direction, help them
along the way, and try and introduce to them what
their passion would be. Maybe they're going to be an
amazing painter, amazing singer. But what if they never find
that passion? What if they never cross paths with what
(44:48):
their interests are? And I struggle with knowing or trying
to find that balance of like allowing them to find
their own path and then trying to steer them in
a direction where they can get a taste with certain things.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Let go, Let go, I reckon.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
The greatest thing you can do is let your kids
go and do what they want to do and make
mistakes and so forth. So from our point of view,
we had Ella who just went I'm going back to England,
you know, and she she didn't really know what she
wanted to do. She ended up in a modeling agency
and she looks after the boys on the modeling agencies select.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Models, good chiven right. She was just told just don't
kiss any of the boys, you know.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
But these boys, and you know they're a bit hopeless,
you know they need to be. You know, here's your
cab charge, here's your flight. I'm not going unless Ella go.
So Ella gets on the flone, gets them to the hotel,
gets them to the shoot or whatever it might be,
and she's found her feet. But she had no idea,
no idea, went to England, just thought I want to
have a crack. Abby took ages. She left secondary school
(45:46):
at the end of year nine. She did year ten
at Tafe and then she went to a boy and
girls school co ed school year eleven and twelve and
just went to another level. Found friends, boys don't accept
girls being dicks.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
So it all mellowed when.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
She goes, I'm going to leave school year nine.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Well, she came back from school. I was sitting on
the sofa and she was in tears. Come off the bus,
I said, what's going on? She goes, this is what
I'm in the day that da I said, get your
school uniform off and get everything that's got that badge
and put it into a big bag, like one of
those big black bags you'd use for gardening. I said,
put your laptop, your powerpoints, your power cords, the whole bit,
(46:25):
anything to do with that school. Whack it in a bag.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
And she did. She came out. I said, let's go.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
So we drove back up to the school and I
was like Santa with it over my shoulder, remember it
so well. I parked in the head my head mistress
the spot because I couldn't be bothered driving.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
It was right where I wanted to be, so I thought,
I'm driving in there. I got out.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
She said, I said, come with me. I went, plucked
the whole load of shit on her on the reception
of the school and said, my daughter will never come
back here again. Do not send me a bill. And
I walked out and Abby was there and she was like,
gave a little nod and we drove back. By the
time we got back, the head mississ had rung and
I actually thought straight away I parked in a spot,
(47:02):
so she was pissed off, but actually she was real
She was fanning him and she goes, what's the story, Gus,
and I said, well, this is what happened.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
She goes, no worry, she understood. Yeah. Abby found it
hard to find the right balance.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
She was sporty and also one of the good looking girls,
so she just never found her right spot. And then she,
like I said, finished off year ten. I remember this bay.
It actually looked a bit like you with the tats
and allies and stuff, with handsome you sort of boy
next door, handsome with a dart with a dark driving.
(47:37):
I used to to I used to love it dropping
her off from Taith because he was like twenty three
doing his apprenticeship on something, and I was like, what
is going on? But it's like, just let her lead her,
let her just feel safe when she's with us, and
anyway she's bumbling and fumbled and found a way. Now
she's happy as she's ever been in Canada. She's worked
(47:58):
herrass off, she's got saving, she's gone great. So my
suggestion always is to be there for support and when
you're asked a question, answer the question.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Stuff.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
But basically, just make every time they ring you or
think of you, they think of you as a safe
place that they can talk to you about absolutely anything.
Don't be the dad that when they ring you, because
they'll do it. There's problem, it's going to be issues,
whatever it might be, and they don't feel they can
ring you because you're going to be upset with them.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
That would be my suggestion. It's worked for us.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
So I remember putting a hole in the wall when
I was like eight, and I remember I would always
go to mum and go, fuck, this is this is
the situation. How do we solve this? And she would
be disappointed. But I always remember a zero fear going
to my mum with the problem. She's upstairs listening probably
right now, mum. So I think that's like the best
advice is you. You don't want them to try and
(48:52):
do things behind your back like that. It would be
just you know, if my kids were ever in that
situation where they didn't feel they could come to me, God,
it would break my heart.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
What happened in your if that happens, what happens, what's
happened in your life with your daughters that have made
them think that they can't come to you.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
You know what I mean. That that's that's that's the
path you're about to go on. So don't be that
guy that puts obstacles in the way to stop that.
You want that not to ever happen.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
So to be the type of that doesn't mean you
can be walked over all the time, doesn't mean you
haven't got your boundaries.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
But at the end of the day, they want to
love you. You're you're you're their father. They've got teachers
to teach other stuff. You'll teach them the basics. Of
course you Lola kind of hates me.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
It's a real Yeah, it's a real fine line between
I don't know, it's kind of like a bit of
like it's like.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
A really good leadership trait that people will follow.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
You, but then also be honest with you, you know
what I mean, and like we you know, you do
fall into what your parents to do, because.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
That's all you've really been, You've really been taught. We
need to change. Yeah, for sure, it's bloody heart.
Speaker 4 (49:54):
It's buddy hard being a male and a female. It's
buddy hard being a boy and a girl. It's really
really hard if you you're not quite sure where you are,
and if you've got the DNA and you've got all
this practice stuff, you need to actually stop and go.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (50:07):
You know, people say, oh, I'm starting to sound like
my mum and dad. Well that's what we're doing, because
that's what's ada. You've really got to stop doing that.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
You definitely outdated, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Oh, because this world's a very different place to the
world that your mum and dad grew up. Insertainly what.
Speaker 4 (50:23):
Sort of the next generation above you? Even just those
mobile phones is enough to make a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Do you stop worrying now that they've flown the nest?
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Never stop worrying?
Speaker 4 (50:33):
Like you know, vit Vic Steel gets the phone calls
and stuff like there was a breakup amongst one of
them the other day, a bit too raw to talk
about it. Which one, But you know, it's just disappointing.
You don't want your kids to be sad. But you know,
mid twenties, you know, early twenties, this is a time
to experiment, right, And I have a bit of a
crack or whatever, so I always I suppose I feel
(50:56):
now that my three kids can come to Vix or
I and between the two two of us, we can
work that stuff out. Like I'm big on building the village, right,
So I had the kids Godfather's. They said, oh, one
of the kids rang them the other day and asked
me that, And I'm like, that's so awesome. Some dads
would go, why are you talking to me? You've got
to take all that ego out and go, I've built
(51:16):
this village of people that they feel comfy around.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
I'm glad they're using them, you know, I'm glad they're
having fun with them.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
We always end on the question of what do you
want your kids to remember the one thing after they've
flown the nest and now that you're in that position
right now where your house is empty, If there was
one thing you would like them to remember and talk
about when they think of yourself and Vicky, what would
it be?
Speaker 2 (51:39):
I think with me, I would love them to say
that Dad was kind. Yeah, Dad was kind. You know.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
I think that would be the coolest compliment anyone could
give me, Like, just it's just a nice, big, kind,
big cuddly bear time. You know, Ella sentis, I haven't
got my phone right here now, but she sent me
a I think the Spotify bringing out like a year
the rap at the moment, and and she had this
(52:08):
song and she goes, I have that song because you
gave me that song. And I don't even know the name.
It's like a techno he sort of but it's like
a you can't help it sort of if I put
her on here for twenty seconds, it would all be
sort of like joined ourselves.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Very happy about the glow sticks.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
And she goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, and she just said,
that reminds me of you, dad. So that was a
really lovely king.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
And I just came off radio after sixteen years, and
I had a little tributes they put in, you know,
as part of packages and stuff, and you know, Abby
came on first, then Jack, Danella and Vix and the
four of them. I was just absolutely lost at like
just what unexpected. I didn't know that happened. And to
get my son to do anything like that was amazing.
(52:51):
And you could tell that he was sort of doing
it on the way on the tube, you know, to
work in London, but it was just the.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Fact what he said, and I'm just like, oh, we've
done good, Yeah, we've done good. But that doesn't mean it.
Speaker 4 (53:03):
There's plenty of times we've gone, oh my god, I
don't know if this is going to work out. But
the stuff I've learned doing got your full life really
helped because I just I wasn't such a helicopter pairent.
After that, I really gave them there there's space to
be able to go off and do what they need
to do.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
We say we don't give advice, but I am spun
just soaking up. You're a great man, great dad.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
She'd be incredibly proud.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
I am incredibly proud, and you guys have done so well.
You're both good mates having a crack. I love it.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
I can't stand them, lots and.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Lots of liens like I've never haven't met your partner,
but I've met your partner, Maddie, and she's obviously fantastic
and doing her own thing too. It's not easy, you know,
being in the spotlight like you guys are and bringing
up kids and stuff. So the first real thing I'd
say is just give yourself a bit of a break,
you know.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
And food for next year. But it's like we need
to throw away perfect. That's the best advice that anyone
because just we're.
Speaker 4 (54:06):
Throwing away perfect and we can look perfect on socials
and all that sort of stuff, but at the end
of the day, what happens here, you know, just between
the four walls and a family. If you're kind and
you're having a crack and you're trying to do the
right thing, that's enough, you know, Like it's bloody, bloody hard.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
So one thing we can do so easily, and they
give us no bloody proper manuals exactly, you know.
Speaker 4 (54:26):
And every kid's different too, like something that for your
son that I might have done a jack may not work,
and with your daughters you might go, well, I tried
that and that didn't work, because they were all little,
beautiful little things, individual things. And I used to say
to Vicks if she went out and I was looking
after the kids, as long as they're breathing when you
get home, you should be happy with me, Like she
(54:46):
said to me once, no bad food, no stupid decisions.
She was going away for a three day trip anyway,
So we rang her from the pizza hut. We then
rang her from the dog kennel, and then the third
thing is we were having an ice cream with the
dog in the back of the.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Gap and I said, don't tell me what to do, Gussie,
You've got an anniversary to get to. Yes, huge, congrats
once again for the next thirty years. Thanks Maddie of
Happy Perfect. I'm sure there was never a dull moment.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Never a dull moment hasn't been perfect.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
Well done, and thanks so much for the chat.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
Thanks man, Thanks and just quickly thank you for sixteen
years on the air in our ears. Congratulations and wish
you the best of luck with gotcha yeah and the
future of that.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
I can't wait to see. Thanks mate, what happens?
Speaker 1 (55:32):
And thanks again for coming on.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
It's a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Thanks boys, Matt.
Speaker 3 (55:38):
It's been a while since we've had a dad that
is just a few steps ahead of us.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Makes me nervous. Youngest twenty two. That feels like an
absolute lifetime away that my little my kids are going to.
Speaker 5 (55:49):
Be that old.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review,
a little five star subscribe even you know the drill?
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (55:56):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (55:57):
If you thought about subscribing, you've never done it up
until now. Take the plunge. Yes, you will be cherry.
You won't regret it. And if you do shut up.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
We also have social media Two Doting Dads on Instagram
and TikTok, and we have a Facebook group that is
bustling what.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Don't we have? What don't we are we got at all?
If there's something missing that we should get. Also tell
us we will listen to you guys, whatever you want.
We're here. We're open to your feedback, as long as
it's not too constructive.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Let's not overpromise.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
Yes, but until next time, we'll see then see it.
Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
Speaker 3 (56:42):
We pay our respects to their elders past and present
and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander
people's today. This episode was recorded on Gadagle Land
Ash. One question we like to ask our guests on
the podcast is their proposal story.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Yes, and Gus has quite a unique one.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I think this would be my favorite of all the
proposal stories we've had. This is number one.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
You're only seeing movies usually where people ask someone to
marry them on the first date.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
What a maniac? What an idiot? Seem to have paid off,
but didn't expect the best story to come from Oh Gussie.
Now you might know Gus from his work as a
sports commentator. He was also working at Triple M until
he decided to hang up the headphones after a massive
sixteen years and put all his energy into Gotcha for Life.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Got through such a great organization that emerged from such
devastating circumstances.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, Gus lost his mentor and basically a father figure
who died as a result of suicide. This ultimately led
to him building an organization that is dedicated to getting
the male suicide rate down to zero. So if you
or anyone you know is struggling, you can call Lifeline
on thirteen eleven fourteen. Further info will be available in
the show notes. Gus is married to VICKI.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I have three kids and he's an advocate for opening
up discussions around really important issues amongst men.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
He also gives us a bit of advice on how
to stay happily married after what is it like thirty years?
Thirty years?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
It was actually his thirtieth anniversary when we did this chat,
which was awesome because he'd spent time with us and
not as well.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Anyway, here is the conversation. Enjoy, Welcome back to three
doting dads. I am Addie, Jay, I'm Ash and I'm
(01:42):
Gus warn And this is a podcast all about parenting.
It is the good, it is the bad and the relatable.
And Gussie, we can I call you Gussie of course, Gussie.
We don't give any advice here, Ash and I occasionally
we will if you'd like to give advice. You can
give advice if it's not advice, but it's stories that
shouldn't be taken as advice. Perfect. We like to just
(02:04):
pre warn everybody.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Yeah, I think I'm probably more of a preacher than
I expect myself to be or want to be.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
But that comes with, you know.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Maturity and being fifty six a couple of days ago,
and you know, I'm sort of I could be your
father easily.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Happy birthday, by the way, me, yeah, forty six.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
No, I'm just thirty fourty four. I'm thirty seven. And
that's part of the reason why we were excited to
talk to you, because we always mentioned as a hierarchy
of parents, and when we speak to someone who's got
children younger than us, we then preached down to that.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Speak to someone, Oh I remember when that was happening.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
You're much wiser because you're far higher on the hierarchy
of parenthood.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Maybe I'm not one hundred percent sure about that, but
I reckon that definitely is to go though in terms
of like, you know, you look around and you think, oh, well,
I've been here and done that, and I find myself
saying over and over again, oh, take in every moment, yeah,
je it goes quickly.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
And I'm like, before even we're guilty of that.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
At the park, someone's the newborn and I'm like, oh.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Before you know, it becomes part of your small dog,
and you're just like, ah, it goes fast, doesn't it.
As soon as someone's like, yeah, he's just turned one,
you're like, and just to keep the conversation, you're like,
oh my god, that wents so fa, and ever we're thinking, no,
it fucking didn't so.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Long. Wait to be over. Now that I've got three
kids away from home.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
So Abby's twenty one, she's in Canada, Jack and Ella
have been in England for four and three years.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I find myself going, gee, it goes fast.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
I remember when my and then one of the children,
and then I tell them about, well you're doing now,
just as if they're passed through it.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
But they happen.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
One is like hello or something like that, and I'll
just get into that and that gives me two three minutes,
few stories.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Oh why England. Oh, then my wife and I can
go forever. After that point, I have no doubt.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Before we chat about your kids, I'm going to test
your memory here, Gus. We always like to start off
and see what I guess were like when they were
much younger. I'm talking about you know, teenage years even earlier,
if you can recall that far back. Yeah, what were
you like as a young man?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
I was a chubby happy, lots of mates around me,
lots of sport. Put me in a box and I
was happy. As soon as I was sort of a
little bit outside of that box.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I was no good. So I went to a school
that was a boaters and blazer and loved it.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
My brother, two years a enemy, couldn't wait to leave,
went to America to finish off his schooling.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I was just a happy, happy little kid who just.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Loved to eat and loved sugar and loved like soft
drinks and stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
And remind me of someone else on this podcast who's
a little similar, cut from the same class.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
This guy.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Yeah, I mean you and I are very similar from
what I've known from the time we spent together. All
was up for a laugh, always seeing the funny side
of things. But I think it comes with an authentic
sort of good heart as well, you know, which is
I like to think that too. I was always told, oh,
you wear your heart on your sleeve.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
I was the one that cried. I was the one
that gave people hugs and stuff. And I told girls
after a date and a half that I love them
and I'd be perfect on you know, some sort of
you know, showed like that on TV. I don't know
if there's one available.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
We're very happily married, but the Golden Bachelor is casting
at the moment.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
I did say that to my wife she's a lucky
lady thirty years today. Yes, congratulations, And we're talking about
that too, because she sent me a photo of her
and her wedding dress this morning.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
She said it to the family WhatsApp because our kids
are very proud of us.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Did she send it in the family watch to remind
you that today's the day?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
It was to day? But I think she just wanted to.
I don't know. It was a nice memory for her.
And she looks fantastic.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
In fact, you know, she's slimmer than she was all
those years ago, and I think you know, she's been
working hard on herself. So I think that was a
really nice little moment. And our kids just dropped straight
into how long is it again? And Mum, you look
wonderful and.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
All that stuff. So it was just a nice sort
of start of the start of the day, and I
started the day for us.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
We had talked about you wearing your heart on your sleeve.
Where does that come from? Do you think? Is that
because I know that you've spoken about your dad leaving
when you were quite young?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Is that because you spent a lot of time then
with your mum?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
I think so, And also other mates mums as well.
So Dad left officially when I was ten, but he
was sort of out of there probably around I was
about two. And I found out when I was eighteen
that he actually left Mum for a male who is
still with now. His name's Ian, who's an absolute bloody champion.
But I didn't know that at the time. So Mum
(06:59):
and Dad got really well. And then one day I
came home from school. I remember it so well.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
There was boxes at the door, but there was nothing
in them. I thought, that's weird.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
D And then as I sort of you know, got
out of my school gear and you know, I started
mucking around with my brother, the boxes started to be
filled with stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And then Dad was putting him in his car, and
I thought that was all weird.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Was it tense between you Mum and Dad in that moment?
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Or Mum was getting along with everything she normally did,
baking a cake and making this dinner, and I just
thought it was weird.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Maybe there was a clear out or something in my head.
But I've always lived in a bubble.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
I've always lived in a bubble where I've never really
totally understood what's going on at any time, And that
was a perfect example of that.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And then Mum and Dad sat down and said, we've
got something to tell you.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
You know, Dad's not going to be living here full
time and whatever, and I literally and I love my
food I was spoken about already. I threw him a
plate I remember so well because I hadn't started yet,
three cutlets, mashed potato and veggies, and I'm remember I.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Getting a good, good meal, a good meal, and I
smashed the china up against the thing.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
And then I ran down to my mate's place and
I worked out later that mum rang said he must
be down there, and the mum got that message from mum,
this is what's happened, and she said, I look after
him until he calms down. And I stayed there a
couple of nights. Eventually went back. Dad had left and
it was just Mum, me and my brother. And Mum
was a very loving person, so maybe it was to
(08:26):
do with that, but I think it was my personality
from a young kid as well.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You must have been angry.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Do you remember what your emotion was then?
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Like? Definitely anger and just like it was probably the
first time that I remember where I absolutely didn't understand
and was confused and all that stuff, and I think
at twelve years of age, you're probably like that.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Anyway.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Yeah, I was trying to work stuff out. And then
I went to school the next day and spoke to
my mates, and a few of them sort of said, oh,
I think my mum and dad will be the same,
or my mum and dad live in separate rooms, or
they have the same room but two single beds. Now
it's from a double to a single. And I was like, oh,
I thought everyone's life was sort of perfect. Yeah, And
(09:05):
that was my first thing. And I spoke to my
brother about it. My brother's much less emotional than me.
He just goes, mate, that's just the way it is.
And then about Dad, because I got really upset about Dad,
the fact that everyone else seemed to know and I
didn't know, why couldn't you trust me with this information?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Anyway?
Speaker 4 (09:21):
When I found out, first thing I did is had
to go home wring my brother because there was no
mobile phones. He was living in Chippendale. We were in Pimble,
so it was about an hour's drive and I said,
get your ass over here. How long have you known
about Dad? And he went, yep, on my way and
he came over and he had known since he was fourteen,
so he pretty much knew from the time Dad left,
(09:42):
and I just didn't understand why. And when I asked
them why, they said, well, your life was going so well,
like we didn't want to throw this curve ball that
you do.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Everyone was you were happy.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Do you think when you look back, do you like
I can appreciate why they were wanting to protect me.
Do you think the best thing was how it played out?
Or do you think no, I should have been told,
like it's such an important message and to be told
last that has worse effect than whether I was told upfront.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Well, the other thing totally. I'll answer that in a second.
I wasn't told by anyone in my family. So if
some of your listeners may know or have heard. A
bloke called John Newcomb who was a famous tennis player,
so he was like my second dad lived in the
same street, and Nuke actually took me out for dinner
to tell me on behalf of all the friends that
(10:30):
were all that knew, and we're wondering why I didn't know,
and we sat down. I remember so again another good
meal was because the spring rolls of the dim seems
like arrived on a plate and he goes by the way,
By the way, Dad's gay, and I was thinking, okay,
there's a joke in here, like an Irish man of
Scott's walk into a bar, like.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
What is this? And he goes, did you know?
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And I'm like, wow, hold on for a second, is
this what? And he goes, well everyone no, and was
wondering why you weren't talking about it?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So now I know you don't know?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
So how old at this point?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
So I was nineteen, So I done my gap year,
came back and was my first job doing marketing for
the new South Wales Open Tennis at White City, just
down the road here. And you took me out for
dinner because I've done a good job. That was the
what he'd said. And as I said, the demmis in
the springings r and before it could get my buddy
(11:26):
gob into one, he told me about Dad. So obviously
I was teared up. I was upset. There was a
lot of emotion there. I then went back home, rang
my brother, spoke to mom. Mum was furious that NU
could said anything. Yeah bad because that was her role.
And I was like, you've had eighteen years to say.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It, So that happened.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
She goes, I was dressed about it.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Next week, your Dad's go, yeah, that was on the
agenda for next week. We'll chat about it anyway.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
The next morning, I remember not getting a lot of
sleep that night, but the next morn hearing the doorbell
go and Nuke was there. And Nuke then said, I'm
really sorry if I overstepped, and they went through that
discussion as two adults would, and then Nuke offered to
send me to America, which is where my dad was,
so I could have that conversation face to face.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Back in the day. He was like, Nuke had to
deal with Kanas.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
So he had tickets literally sitting in his top desk
and you can fill them in on where you wanted
to go, Like, so has he only left now? It's like, oh,
on the computer, but he so that afternoon I flew
to LA and then LA to Vegas where Dad was.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
What was that conversation like with your dad?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
So I took two days to bring it up, so
you didn't know while you were there, he said why
are you here? Definitely when he saw me, and I said,
I knew, you know, sprung this trip on me.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Because I did a good.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Job with the tennis and blah blah blah and no worries. Meanwhile,
my brother's rung my dad and said he's coming over.
He's coming in hot So this is a story. So
my dad's waiting for me to tell the story. I'm
to gutlass to tell the story. And then eventually, after
a couple of days, we're around the pool and I said, Dad, actually,
the reason I'm here is.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
This and the longest discussion my father and I've ever had.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
It win for hours, and I remember it being really sunny,
and by the time we finished, I had my tower
around me by the pool, like it can get quite
cold in the desert at night anyway, and then we
went out and had the most fantastic night. And Ian,
whose dad's partner still now, as I said, he was
there and I just gave him the biggest harga and
I said, mate, like, this is nothing on you. I
(13:32):
just need to work this stuff out myself. But you're
You're like an uncle to me. I love you like
another dad.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Did you did you know Ian at all prior to this?
It was the first time you met him on that room.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
He's always been dad's business partner Averted Commas, so he's
always been Ian and Dad Neine have lived together but
separate rooms. And I'm like, oh, that's just like my mates.
When I grow up, I'm going to live with my mates.
So that's this is this bubble I was talking about.
I remember going to Whale but each once we had
a place down there and my girlfriend and I, Jackie,
just came up from the beach and Dad always said
(14:02):
ring before you come to the house, right, And one
of these days I was like, bug of that. I'm
just going to go up, jump in the pool. It's
freshen up for the drive home. Well I turned up
and it was like it was like the village people
y M c A Or rolled into one. The music
was going, they had the hooch on the go. There
was like thirty blokes all in speedo's.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Dad's got a lot of mates.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Even then, I'm not going, oh my dad might be gay.
I'm going that's a whole lot of mates and that's
really cool. Yeah, And to dad.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Then come out and we have a chat and have
a swim and you say gooday to everyone, and then
I leave and they're like, well that that's obviously going
to and that made Jackie, my partner at the time,
talk to my mates and say, well, I don't think
he has a clue because like he's literally literally walked
into Mardi Gras on a float and hasn't and hasn't
worked it out.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
What was it like when when your dad left? My
mum and dad split when I was about twelve as well,
And for me it left a really big void that
I wanted to feel for that father figure.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
What was it like for you? I definitely wanted at field.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
I found it with Nuke and I found it with
Angus Roberts, who was my mentor, who took his own life.
That started got your for life for me. So two
very big personalities. Plus there's parts of my mate's dads
that I went, oh, I love that. That's really good.
So I would be one of the kids sometimes talking
to the parents when the kids were outside having a laugh.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Not for long, but I would not just be straight
in and out and fun and pulls. I would be interested.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
So there was a few fathers like Jacko's father Chris Jackman,
who was an absolute bloody. He's a tyrant at times,
very religious and stuff, very different to me, but I
would learn some discipline things from him, some hard work.
Don't keep giving yourself treats. You know, I'm a great
one of do something good treat.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
I went to the gym last night, came home in
an ice cream.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I was like, yeah, you could have easily just had
the ice cream.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I could have, but I felt like I needed his
don't encourage him, encourage me, get a little something something.
How did you meet Angus?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
So Angus was my cousin's boyfriend, then my cousin's husband,
and I loved him so much. When I did Year
twelve like a work experience, I worked for him at
Trinity Prep School.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
He's a PE teacher. And then four or five years later,
when I'd finished.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
School, I was goofing around and my wife was teaching
at PLC Pimble as a PE teacher to Posh School
up on the North Shore, and Angus came up behind
me and sort of put his arm around me and said,
time for you to, you know, start doing some stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I was like, what, life's good and he's like, mate,
time for you to, you know, put your head down
and find something that you're going to do.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
A bit old school but I probably needed it.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
And then he got me a job working at Tashiba
selling laptop computers, which was when laptops were ten grand
apiece and only the bosses had them. Perfect time. Eight
years later I finished off after working at Tsheba in
a few different countries.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
We gave the computer.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Away as long as you bought the dongle for BT
Telecom or whatever it was. It was all about that,
not the actual hardware. So I went through really at
the start, all the way to what is very normal
now is a laptop. And he taught me everything. He
was bloody fantastic and I never worked a day at
Tsheba after.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
He died, not one day, No one day. It was like,
it's just it was just a I couldn't do it.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
I went to to Sheba, Australia to try to find
a note because I was in England when he took
his own life. So I went back to Shea and
I walked into his office and I looked everywhere to
see that just made no sense to me that he
would do that, but never found it.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
And then I've never known anything at to Sheba since.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
How do you digest that type of grief? Finding someone
who played such a pivotal role in your life is
now gone really badly.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
The first maybe five years, I should just get drunk
on the anniversary, shout at him, call him names.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I used to go to the.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Spot, my spot, what I cause, our spot, and just
be so angry and sad. And then I learned some
stuff and I was brave enough. I supposed to talk
about it on The Grill Team, which was a very
blokey show. We'd never show vulnerability. We always just told
jokes and gave away tickets and talked sport. And I
asked Maddie John's and MG one morning if I could
(18:28):
talk about my friend, and I said, we've been doing
the show for six years. I reckon, our listeners are loyal,
they're ready for this, and we went, okay, let's see
here we go. And so I told the story of
Angus took his own life on the day that his
third and final child finished their hsc Oh my god,
so what should have been a celebration and it had
been such a tough time. And then how many people
(18:49):
were at the funeral? Thousands? Literally, they loved him, and
no one had a clue, And the end of the
break you know what it's like in radio three or
four minutes go to a song, and every line at
Triple M was buzzing and just needed to be picked up.
And people were going, I want to tell my story,
so that we gave them permission.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
To talk about something.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
So I drove home to Eleanora and said to my wife,
just on the small little team at the grill team,
we had ninety minutes of phone calls back to back.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
We didn't play another song, not another news report, not
another traffic report. All morning.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
We just went literally one person after another, going this
is what happened to me, This is what happened to me,
This is what happened to me.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I realized how many people are worrying alone.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
So I was able to get some money from the
ABC and do the Man Up program, and then from
Man Up came Gotcha for Life, And every day I
now talk about my friend.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
When was this? How long ago?
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Twenty sixteen was when I spoke about it. Twenty sixteen,
I did Man Up. Twenty seventeen we started Gotcha, So
we're eight years into Gotcha now.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
It doesn't sound like a long time, eight years, but
like almost a decade ago. It was honestly never spoken
about all.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
We've been a part of that changing of the guard
and you guys were a part of that too. And
there's some other cool people like you guys that can
show a young person that you can be good looking
with tats but still talk with being authentic and real
and be it. You can still be a knock about,
you can still love a beer and you can have
a cry. You can tell the mate you love them.
(20:21):
You can just find the guts to actually talk, which
is what we've been told to man up and shut up.
It's actually man up and speak up, you know. And
it's not just males either. We lose seven blokes a day,
two women a day, but every eight minutes someone attempts
and most of those are women. So we've got to
get to the point where we put a line in
the sand in this country and say I don't want
(20:42):
to live in Australia like that. And we're getting there,
but it takes time and it's going to be generational.
You guys, with your children will definitely be different to
how your dad was with you, and it would be
better in terms of us being more human and less
puffing your chest out and I think one of.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
The questions that a lot of people have definitely spoken
about the topic, and we often get this is someone
who maybe thinks that they may need to speak to
a friend who's not doing well. How do you approach
that conversation? You know, r uok day is one that
has a lot of momentum, but at the same time,
it's how do you get from the surface level to
actually getting deeper into understanding how someone's coping mentally?
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Eat practice? You know, you can't do it one day
like I do heaps of work for Auoka. I love
it and their tagline is a conversation can save a life, absolutely,
but how do you have the conversation?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
That's the problem.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Like people like us who are communicators might be a
bit easier, but I still find it hard to go
away from banter into a proper discussion with a friend.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
That I love well.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
I had one this morning with the mate, and I'm
just like, I'm thinking about it, I'm thinking about it,
I'm breathing heavily, and eventually I went, mate, this, I've
got to talk to you about something that's really awkward.
And as soon as I said that, he knew it
wasn't going to be talking about if other Risks is
going to make the top eight next year or stuff
we normally talk about all the cricket that's just just
played an adelaide, so that all that sort of stuff happening.
(22:05):
You've got to practice having conversations of gravity, and the
only way you do that is by starting, and people go,
I don't know how to do it, Bumble and fumble
your way through. Send them a text, send them an email,
write them a letter. You don't need to have the
face to face tears running down the eyes combat, because
that's bloody hard. But to say to someone I need
to talk to you about something that's quite sensitive, or
I want to have an adult conversation, whatever you want
(22:27):
to talk about, get it out there in a way
that's easy for your technology. I mean, we've literally got
our phones attached to us, so we all know how
to send a text.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
So do that, but start it. There's too many people
not having conversations they should be having.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I think as much easier not to start it. That
makes sense, So oh you know, mum, maybe I'll start
a conversation next time. I found that, like with some
of my friends, if I sort of if I'm telling
them a story about something's happening with me, usually that
they'll find something that relates and then that's how the
conversation will begin. Usually so daunting to have a conversation
with someone on a different level.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
That you're not used to having.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
You're sort of usually at this surface level of like
Bandspan's bands as the boys when we're comfortable, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
You're all right. I mean a listen straight and it is.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
It is Award Jokers anyway like that. That's where we're comfy.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, it's a gear change that is a lot harder
to get into.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I've got to build a safe place, Mattie.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
So you can't be chatting away band to Panda banda,
watching the game, having a few beers at a local
partment and go by the way, oh, I need to
tell you something. Pick your moment. Yeah, you've got to
be safe. And they look around and gore, we what's
happened here?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
What?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Well?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I thought we were just fucking around all of a sudden.
It's like, at the end of that conversation you say, hey,
can we have a coffee this week? It's something I
really want to talk to you. About and you're absolutely
right about showing some vulnerability yourself. And as soon as
you say some vulnerability, people go, I know exactly what
you mean. Actually, I wouldn't mind talking to you about that.
You've built the safety for them to have that conversation.
(23:54):
So I keep talking about and I'm working on a
keynote at the moment about leading with vulnerables.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
How do you lead with vulnerability rather than walk away.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
From it, which is what certainly your parents have been
taught and maybe some of you guys too in your thirties,
certainly fifty six, I'm like, oh, vulnerability or I don't
want to show that weakness. Nah, that's actually not a weakness,
it's a strength.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Is that we had the idea for the boys don't cry.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Yeah, so basically boys don't cry, and then we'd slash
through the NT so it's boys do cry. I just
love kids, and I loved being a dad when the
kids were particularly small, like sort of at many many
sort of kids three four, five, six, Yeah, pretty much
where our mental And I also realized, after eight years
(24:45):
of doing gotcha, we've just started a primary school's program.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
So anyone listening.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Here that have kids at primary school, and you want
your primary school to be a mentally fit primary school
and have that stamp at the front. Get involved because
it won't cost the school anything. It's a fully funded
program where we want to get the kids, the parents,
and the teachers and all the staff mentally fit. I
start having those discussions like, you know, if you have
(25:10):
your five veggies and your fruits and stuff that'll make
you better, Well, what are the exercises for the emotional muscle?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And that is more important than anything.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
And we are basically told by people that are emotional muscle,
especially boys, it's turned off at a rudy young age
and it can be just falling in the playground and
one of the older kids calling you a name and
you go, oh, that's obviously not behave you were allowed
to do, and we just turn it off. And blokes
are in their thirties, forties and fifties now trying to
turn it back on again.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Gussie, I feel like you're very modest, so I'm going
to give you a compliment. I'm sure you're not going
to want to take it, but it's really incredible to
see the work that you're doing and you're like, fuck,
if only do are more Gusses in this world, but
your dedication to such an amazing cause is awesome. So
well done.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Thank you, Maddie.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I appreciate that. If you said that to my wife,
who who is equally in this whole thing, she's English, right,
she deflect stuff. I will accept that because it is
bloody hard work, soak it up and it's nice to
hear that from you. But like you celebrate for a
New York minute, I don't know if you guys know
what a New York minute is, but it's basically the
(26:15):
time that the traffic lights go from red to green
and the first honk of the horn, right, So that's
a real short amount of time. Like we've had the
last two years, a slight decrease in suicide, like forty
three people, and you think, oh forty three people in
three thousand, say hey, forty three people, and families and
communities and clubs haven't been affected this year, and then
(26:36):
we were last year. So we're going to celebrate that,
But then we realize that it's the number one way
to die if you're a young Australian male or female
fifteen to forty four is suicide.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
So we're not accepting it, but we're saying we're on
the right track.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
You were talking about Vicki and we had to stop
you before we record it actually because you're talking about
how you and Vicki Matt Yeah, and we were like, wow,
this is good, this is good, this is good. What
was his name, Roger Roger.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
We not talk about Roger.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
So what happened was I went on a gap year
to England nineteen eighty seven, and I had a girlfriend
and I loved this girl, been with her all the
way through like year eleven and twelve, and she was
going to France to do she'd done four unit French
school and she wanted to go and live in France
because that's a proper.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Way of learning rather than through a book.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
And by the time I saw her at the Easter break,
I'd broken up with her because I knew I was
in love with this other girl. But this other girl
had this boy called Roger who was her boyfriend, and
her name was Vicky.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Roger. Actually, Roger's a really nice.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
As I'm saying that, I'm like, he's probably like.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Roger's fund of the podcast to be listening in.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
And anyway, they went out and had been going out
for years, right, so I just sort of, you know,
it's fair enough. And then Vix came out to Australia
and he came out with her, so it's a bit annoying.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
And then they broke up on their bigs like six
week trip through you know, I want you going home,
see you mate, So I did that and then Vix
and I.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Nothing ever happened, but it just stuck in my mind
and all my friends said, look, it's obvious that what's
going on here and blah blah blah. So three years later,
three years so I wrote her once a week for
three years, like aerograms, which is.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
You look, it's basically a smoke signal. Well, I saw
a sky ride other day and I was like, old school, Well,
this is.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Really old school. So it's a bit of paper you
got from the post office.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Post officer and you're right on it, and then it
folds into an envelope and then that gets sent by the.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Stamp on the stand, the STA stamp get the fut
and I used to send those and Vix.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Has still got them. In fact, they're in our garage.
I saw them the other day.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
So I send one a week every week and she'd
send maybe one every couple of months, right, So she
was very much sort of like that that's in Australia.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I was definitely like, let's the equivalent of double text message? Yeah, yeah,
more than like maybe eight and I did that with
my wife, So I'm with you, we'll play.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
So eventually I went to England and asked her to
marry me the night that I first saw her, the
first night I saw her.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
So it was it was like it was a letter
a letter relationship up until that point, just all letters.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
That's right after after knowing each other for two years.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Hang on a second, I've just got I've got to
pull you up on something. I always thought, who are
these people out there who are asking someone to marry
them without at least like testing the waters their maniacs?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You're that person, I'm that person, but Vicki is not
because she told me to fuck off.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Okay, so smart.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
So all this big build up, fly a Heathrow gets
the bloody trained to Bath and then the badger line
Bucks from Bath to Wells walked into the public at
at lunchtime. She's on a UNI break, so she's working
the bar to pay off her UNI loan and I
walked straight up to her, chatting Da Da Da, and
she goes, I'm working till three, then we'll go into
(30:38):
town and whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
And then that night she's back working again.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
So I just sat and of course I knew people
because I've been at that school, so I knew some people.
So got drunk as a skunk, and then we said,
all right, we're going to go to this nightclub in
Shepton Mallet. Don't ever go to Shephar Mallet if you've
give them the opportunity. And about three in the morning,
you know, of course I've got through jet lag. I
was buzzing again and said the reason I'm here is
(31:01):
because I want to marry you, and she was just
like fuck off. And the next morning I heard her
on the phone or her mum's saying, Guss is here.
He asked me to marry him, And then there was
a big silence, which I imagine her mum's going, what.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
A fucking idiot. I always told you that guy, he's
got a good heart, but he's fucking.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Is he the one that every week?
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, that's talker guy.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
What about Roger?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
But you're thinking about Roger?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Yeah, But there was another guy at YUNI, which I
found out later was hovering and anyway, so Vix was sensible.
She goes, well, hey, I've always it's obvious that we've
always had, you know, a little spark. So I'll tell
the bloke at UNI that we're not going to start
and let's have a crack you and I and I
went that sounds good.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
So she went back to Plymouth.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
I drove down every Wednesday in the fruit van from
the pub, and we basically spent about a month or
so before She then said to me one night, I
actually do want to marry you, like I actually I've
been in love with you for all that time and
I just needed to have a little bit of like,
you know, just some sort of like a kiss, so
(32:12):
she went. So then we said a long engagement. She
had two years left at UNI, so when we have
two years in her first year as a teacher, so
that's three year engagement. That's a good you know, If
we're still mates after that, then let's go. If not,
well say well it's it is what it is. And
as I said, today is thirty years.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Wow, that's a beautiful story.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
That's a good story.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, we met at a pub once and then then
we got.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Married and it was like fuck you literally walked up
and said, I'll just marry you.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, and she told me to fuck off. Yes, pretty much.
Great conversation become more and more similar.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Asy your brother is a screenwriter.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, yes, I don't know. That's a good point, Like
come on, come on, Steve, sure that to me?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Screams like Matt and I would like a cameo in
that movie The Bar.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
You could play me, like back in the day.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
You must have been really handsome. You have to lose
the We're very keen to talk about life with teenage
kids because Ash and I are trying to figure out
what we have in store for ourselves. But before we
do that, what was it like that transition to becoming
a dad. Was it something that you hit the ground
(33:30):
and running.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
No, definitely not. I was so excited.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
So Vix and I had eight pregnancies for our three kids,
so we lost twins sort of midway through.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Teen weeks, We've told people. So that was really difficult,
and then we couldn't get pregnant for a little while.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
I didn't know that and it's and it's really you
don't talk about it until someone mentions it, and then
you go, actually me too, or yeah, you know, vulnerability
happens a lot, and then you feel like you've got
permission to talk about it. That's the great thing about
what I'm doing got your life is we need to
give guys per mission to talk.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
About Because Woodsy said the same thing, your close friend
Woodsy Yeah, because he went through a couple of miscarriages
too in the and felt like he couldn't talk about
it in the change room. And then when he did
talk about it, some of the other players came out
and said, we lost one too, and it's crazy that
mentioning it.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
People.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Then everything up.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
You've given me the net, You give me the net,
the permission and all exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
So when I remember Victory.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
I was, I was drinking like Chinese potions and all
this stuff. And then if she had I'd come home
to the fertility yeah, to whatever, you know, and I
went and did.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
She was poisoning you.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
In an Eastern medicine way, which is play on.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
And so basically we then eventually won't go through that
story too much, but we got pregnant and then Jack
arrived and the excitement was incredible, you know, healthy baby boy,
absolute champion, huge, massive melon. Everyone loved him. He was
just this little nugget who he just smile at everyone.
(35:06):
He used to eat and just be happy. But I
found it hard to find my place. I would come home,
I was all excited, and as soon as I sort
of picked him up, he was like my man.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
He was sort of going towards mum. So it took
me a little while.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
And I believe me talking about being vulnerable, I wasn't
vulnerable with my mates. I would say everything was awesome,
because that's what I meant to say, But actually what
I was thinking was is what's my place here? What's
my Vix got her role, she's nailing it, and I'm
just this big bullfeed that doesn't seem to know what
he's doing. Until Vix came up with the idea of
like when you get home, you do the bath, you
(35:44):
do the shower, you do the dry in, put the
cream on the just make him all snuggled and then
bring him down for me for his last feed before
he goes to bed.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I had something to do, you know, and I got
good at it, you know, And I created a space
for us to have fun.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
And I remember being in a bath and Jack just
sitting on my chest and he just felt for the
first time, I felt he wants to be with me.
And then there's some times I went, it's taken in
the shower now and see if the shower goes on
his you know, the water going down his face, and
he'd go.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
But he liked it, and I'd take him out of
it and back in and he'd giggle.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
And then I found this nice comfy towel and brought
ten of them to make sure that we always had
one not in the wash, and I would just wipe
him down and blah blah blah and get him ready
and then bring him down to Vix and I was like,
forty five minutes.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Ah, it was the best.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
And now if you ask my kids, they would all
say that there's no doubt they absolutely adore We adore
each other, you know, there's no way around that. And
they can tell us stuff that probably a lot of
kids don't tell their parents, and Vix and I are
super proud of that. How do you get there by
(36:56):
being authentic and real and not blowing smoke up their ass?
And a lot of parents muck it up through the
times when the kids are a bit rebellious and stuff.
They are so much their own parents that they end
up talking nonsense to their kids because their kids are
growing up in a world that is so different to
the world that mum and dad grew up in. So
(37:16):
just take a moment and listen and ask the question,
this is how I feel? You tell me how you feel, rather.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Than what are you doing? You're a disgrace. I told
you not to do this.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
You're ground and all this this, this is what happened
twenty thirty years ago.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So you've got to learn what world the kids are
in now. And parents aren't great listeners as in general.
I worry like I for me, like we were saying,
our kids is still quite young. You've got how old
you're youngest?
Speaker 5 (37:44):
Now?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Twenty one? Wow, she's just arrived in Whistler, doing you
know a season?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
You know our little one where empty nest is last Tuesday,
last Thursday?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah, wow, good week in see I see teenage and
I've got a boy, my elder and I'm worried because
I see all these teenagers now down the shops and
they're dickheads.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
And I was a dickhead, and it's like, how did
you were you a dickhead? Really? Yeah you were? Okay?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, I was the typical teenager where I got arrested,
I did dumb ship.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
I know if that's typical, bro is it okay? Anyway?
Teenager where I would burn a house down and still like,
you know what.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
That was my thing.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
The question I'm getting to is when you had your
eldest is a boy too, like through that teenage hood? Like,
do you have any any advice for me? And Matt sure, Like,
I'm the only thing I worry about.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I don't know why. Well a lot to not be
a dickhead.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yeah yeah, Well telling him that you're a dickhead is
a really good start. Okay, you know that's easy, but
at the time, that's right. Say, hey, you're a part
of me. This is what I didn't start. I want
you to learn from from me. This is some of
the stuff that i't doesn't mean you can't have fun
and push the boundaries, but hey, learn it from me.
(39:08):
Blah blah blah. And that's a really good way to start.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
You.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Leading with vulnerability with him is really cool. I remember
I have not always nailed it, believe me. And having
someone like Vicky who's the school teacher smart completely is
brilliant for me, So I'm the fun side.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
She's a bit more of the serious and whatever. So
we got a good combo.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
But I remember Jack coming home from bally Boys, which
is you drive past Bally Boys, it looks like Shawshank Redemption.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
It does.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
But the school was absolutely brilliant for Jack, and it's
still continually brilliant. Got a great head master and everything
worked out well. But I just had these preconceived ideas
of high schools. My son should go to a private school,
and all the beers right, So we go. One day,
Jack comes home and he's got these little markings on
his hand, and there was seventeen of them. I said,
one of those markings goes I wrote down every time
(39:56):
someone called me a name today.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
So he's having a really bad day. And then he
got in his head about it, so he said, I'm
going to mark it down when they call me a
Dickey oly sh. It's terrible to hear that as a dad.
So I'm just like, I mean, you'll never go to
that school again. They're bullying you, and blah blah blah.
And I was on radio at the time. I had
to do a piece on the triple in Themorrow Morning
bag and that teacher and that, you know, or just
going nuts.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
Right by the time my wife got home, I got
him into the local Saint Augustin's, which was the local
sort of poshi school on the beaches, and that was that.
And I hadn't asked Jack what he really wanted. I
just got ahead of did it because that's what I did,
because I fixed stuff. I'm a fixer. Yeah, and then
Vis came home and said, slow down, let's ask Jack
(40:39):
what he wants. An hour later, she's ringing the school
saying he is coming back. You're not going to that school.
Jack's happy again, and it's all good. And then she
went to the school with Jack the next morning, explained
it went through, it all worked out, that kid's a dickhead,
brought that kid in, his parents came in, didn't realize
that kid was a dickhead.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Everyone sort of worked it all out, and eventually that
kid got expelled. Thank God for Vicky.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
I say that all the time. I literally say that
all the time.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
And there's times where she goes to me, Ah, you know,
sometimes I feel like I don't know my spot because
mum's in particular.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
And your your partners will go through this.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
You've definitely got a role and then all of a
sudden that role changes and it takes a while to
work it out.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
And Vix has definitely had that.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
But now she realizes that, you know, every time she
opens her mouth faced, kids are listening and they're getting
information in there, like she's awesome. And she works at
Gotcha too now, so she's she's teaching a whole lot
of kids about mental fitness and young girls speaking, you know,
with being authentic and real.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
I think it's also yeah, important you mentioned there to
listen to what your kid wants because at that age,
like five year olds, we've got now sometimes if someone
said to me, listening to what your kid wants, they'll
be he's like, I want to monster truck. But if
it's a fifteen year old, sixteen year old, they can articulate,
well they and well a ten or eleven year old
and he's marked down that someone's called your name.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
And he also had the guts to tell you.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
He could have been like, asked nothing, that's all.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Yeah, we could have just rubbed that off with yeah,
he actually came up, and I remember it so well
because I was doing Brecky Radio, so I used to
have like little like midday little sleep because I was.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
That sod all the time. And then I and then
he came up and he just lay on Vicky's side
of the bed. I remember it so well, and I said, oh,
what are those markings? Mate? What's that? What's that about?
Speaker 4 (42:27):
And he told me and he was quite didn't show
a lot of emotion, and he cried and that's when
I lost it.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
And then with an hour visits ordered it all out again.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
It's another one of those learning things for me, plus
doing the Man Up program. We actually took the cameras
into Jack School and we had like twenty kids sitting
there and I was watching it on the little monitor
in another room, and I watched twenty kids that I've
known since under six soccer all being emotional within fifteen
or twenty minutes, like literally just a little graze and
(42:56):
it was happening. And I realized realized these boys are
just little time bonds and they don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
How to talk about it. Suppressed so much, suppressed it
all the time, press it down.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
I remember as a teenager and I wasn't having a
really good something just wasn't. I was sick a few
times in a row and my friends were out doing something,
and I remember like I got to the point my
mum was like, why don't you go? And I just
and I for some reason, I just broke down and
I felt like I'd suppressed so much emotion that eventually
I when as soon as someone scratched the surface.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I was like fuck, like yeah, and it was mum, right,
So you felt Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I felt safe.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
But like if like you were saying, like they switch
off their you know.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Their emotional muscle, yeah, like, because that's that's going to
protect them, right. So I'm that type of boy, you know,
if I climb trees and I do stuff.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
And I'm the star and the sports team, and I
don't take school too seriously because that's sort of frowned
upon if that's what I'm meant to be, and in fact,
it's complete nonsense. And that doesn't mean that we burst
into tears every five minutes or have big, deeper, meaningfuls
all the time. But to be able to have that
skill is incredible, and that's what we're trying to build
at the moment.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Climb trees and cry.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah you can.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Essentially you can.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Be crying because you might go, oh shit, this is
really scary. But I'm going to have a crack and
do it.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Like we stop kids doing so much now that perhaps
we got up to you know, whether you you know
in prison or not.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
I've got a question. I don't know if this is
going to make sense. So you're gonna have to bear
with me for a second.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Sure, when I.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Think about my role as a parent with my girls,
I kind of think that I have a responsibility to
try and steer them in a certain direction, help them
along the way, and try and introduce to them what
their passion would be. Maybe they're going to be an
amazing painter, amazing singer. But what if they never find
that passion? What if they never cross paths with what
(44:48):
their interests are? And I struggle with knowing or trying
to find that balance of like allowing them to find
their own path and then trying to steer them in
a direction where they can get a taste with certain things.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Let go, Let go, I reckon.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
The greatest thing you can do is let your kids
go and do what they want to do and make
mistakes and so forth. So from our point of view,
we had Ella who just went I'm going back to England,
you know, and she she didn't really know what she
wanted to do. She ended up in a modeling agency
and she looks after the boys on the modeling agencies select.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Models, good chiven right. She was just told just don't
kiss any of the boys, you know.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
But these boys, and you know they're a bit hopeless,
you know they need to be. You know, here's your
cab charge, here's your flight. I'm not going unless Ella go.
So Ella gets on the flone, gets them to the hotel,
gets them to the shoot or whatever it might be,
and she's found her feet. But she had no idea,
no idea, went to England, just thought I want to
have a crack. Abby took ages. She left secondary school
(45:46):
at the end of year nine. She did year ten
at Tafe and then she went to a boy and
girls school co ed school year eleven and twelve and
just went to another level. Found friends, boys don't accept
girls being dicks.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
So it all mellowed when.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
She goes, I'm going to leave school year nine.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Well, she came back from school. I was sitting on
the sofa and she was in tears. Come off the bus,
I said, what's going on? She goes, this is what
I'm in the day that da I said, get your
school uniform off and get everything that's got that badge
and put it into a big bag, like one of
those big black bags you'd use for gardening. I said,
put your laptop, your powerpoints, your power cords, the whole bit,
(46:25):
anything to do with that school. Whack it in a bag.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
And she did. She came out. I said, let's go.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
So we drove back up to the school and I
was like Santa with it over my shoulder, remember it
so well. I parked in the head my head mistress
the spot because I couldn't be bothered driving.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
It was right where I wanted to be, so I thought,
I'm driving in there. I got out.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
She said, I said, come with me. I went, plucked
the whole load of shit on her on the reception
of the school and said, my daughter will never come
back here again. Do not send me a bill. And
I walked out and Abby was there and she was like,
gave a little nod and we drove back. By the
time we got back, the head mississ had rung and
I actually thought straight away I parked in a spot,
(47:02):
so she was pissed off, but actually she was real
She was fanning him and she goes, what's the story, Gus,
and I said, well, this is what happened.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
She goes, no worry, she understood. Yeah. Abby found it
hard to find the right balance.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
She was sporty and also one of the good looking girls,
so she just never found her right spot. And then she,
like I said, finished off year ten. I remember this bay.
It actually looked a bit like you with the tats
and allies and stuff, with handsome you sort of boy
next door, handsome with a dart with a dark driving.
(47:37):
I used to to I used to love it dropping
her off from Taith because he was like twenty three
doing his apprenticeship on something, and I was like, what
is going on? But it's like, just let her lead her,
let her just feel safe when she's with us, and
anyway she's bumbling and fumbled and found a way. Now
she's happy as she's ever been in Canada. She's worked
(47:58):
herrass off, she's got saving, she's gone great. So my
suggestion always is to be there for support and when
you're asked a question, answer the question.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Stuff.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
But basically, just make every time they ring you or
think of you, they think of you as a safe
place that they can talk to you about absolutely anything.
Don't be the dad that when they ring you, because
they'll do it. There's problem, it's going to be issues,
whatever it might be, and they don't feel they can
ring you because you're going to be upset with them.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
That would be my suggestion. It's worked for us.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
So I remember putting a hole in the wall when
I was like eight, and I remember I would always
go to mum and go, fuck, this is this is
the situation. How do we solve this? And she would
be disappointed. But I always remember a zero fear going
to my mum with the problem. She's upstairs listening probably
right now, mum. So I think that's like the best
advice is you. You don't want them to try and
(48:52):
do things behind your back like that. It would be
just you know, if my kids were ever in that
situation where they didn't feel they could come to me, God,
it would break my heart.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
What happened in your if that happens, what happens, what's
happened in your life with your daughters that have made
them think that they can't come to you.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
You know what I mean. That that's that's that's the
path you're about to go on. So don't be that
guy that puts obstacles in the way to stop that.
You want that not to ever happen.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
So to be the type of that doesn't mean you
can be walked over all the time, doesn't mean you
haven't got your boundaries.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
But at the end of the day, they want to
love you. You're you're you're their father. They've got teachers
to teach other stuff. You'll teach them the basics. Of
course you Lola kind of hates me.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
It's a real Yeah, it's a real fine line between
I don't know, it's kind of like a bit of
like it's like.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
A really good leadership trait that people will follow.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
You, but then also be honest with you, you know
what I mean, and like we you know, you do
fall into what your parents to do, because.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
That's all you've really been, You've really been taught. We
need to change. Yeah, for sure, it's bloody heart.
Speaker 4 (49:54):
It's buddy hard being a male and a female. It's
buddy hard being a boy and a girl. It's really
really hard if you you're not quite sure where you are,
and if you've got the DNA and you've got all
this practice stuff, you need to actually stop and go.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (50:07):
You know, people say, oh, I'm starting to sound like
my mum and dad. Well that's what we're doing, because
that's what's ada. You've really got to stop doing that.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
You definitely outdated, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Oh, because this world's a very different place to the
world that your mum and dad grew up. Insertainly what.
Speaker 4 (50:23):
Sort of the next generation above you? Even just those
mobile phones is enough to make a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Do you stop worrying now that they've flown the nest?
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Never stop worrying?
Speaker 4 (50:33):
Like you know, vit Vic Steel gets the phone calls
and stuff like there was a breakup amongst one of
them the other day, a bit too raw to talk
about it. Which one, But you know, it's just disappointing.
You don't want your kids to be sad. But you know,
mid twenties, you know, early twenties, this is a time
to experiment, right, And I have a bit of a
crack or whatever, so I always I suppose I feel
(50:56):
now that my three kids can come to Vix or
I and between the two two of us, we can
work that stuff out. Like I'm big on building the village, right,
So I had the kids Godfather's. They said, oh, one
of the kids rang them the other day and asked
me that, And I'm like, that's so awesome. Some dads
would go, why are you talking to me? You've got
to take all that ego out and go, I've built
(51:16):
this village of people that they feel comfy around.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
I'm glad they're using them, you know, I'm glad they're
having fun with them.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
We always end on the question of what do you
want your kids to remember the one thing after they've
flown the nest and now that you're in that position
right now where your house is empty, If there was
one thing you would like them to remember and talk
about when they think of yourself and Vicky, what would
it be?
Speaker 2 (51:39):
I think with me, I would love them to say
that Dad was kind. Yeah, Dad was kind. You know.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
I think that would be the coolest compliment anyone could
give me, Like, just it's just a nice, big, kind,
big cuddly bear time. You know, Ella sentis, I haven't
got my phone right here now, but she sent me
a I think the Spotify bringing out like a year
the rap at the moment, and and she had this
(52:08):
song and she goes, I have that song because you
gave me that song. And I don't even know the name.
It's like a techno he sort of but it's like
a you can't help it sort of if I put
her on here for twenty seconds, it would all be
sort of like joined ourselves.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Very happy about the glow sticks.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
And she goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, and she just said,
that reminds me of you, dad. So that was a
really lovely king.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
And I just came off radio after sixteen years, and
I had a little tributes they put in, you know,
as part of packages and stuff, and you know, Abby
came on first, then Jack, Danella and Vix and the
four of them. I was just absolutely lost at like
just what unexpected. I didn't know that happened. And to
get my son to do anything like that was amazing.
(52:51):
And you could tell that he was sort of doing
it on the way on the tube, you know, to
work in London, but it was just the.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Fact what he said, and I'm just like, oh, we've
done good, Yeah, we've done good. But that doesn't mean it.
Speaker 4 (53:03):
There's plenty of times we've gone, oh my god, I
don't know if this is going to work out. But
the stuff I've learned doing got your full life really
helped because I just I wasn't such a helicopter pairent.
After that, I really gave them there there's space to
be able to go off and do what they need
to do.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
We say we don't give advice, but I am spun
just soaking up. You're a great man, great dad.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
She'd be incredibly proud.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
I am incredibly proud, and you guys have done so well.
You're both good mates having a crack. I love it.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
I can't stand them, lots and.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Lots of liens like I've never haven't met your partner,
but I've met your partner, Maddie, and she's obviously fantastic
and doing her own thing too. It's not easy, you know,
being in the spotlight like you guys are and bringing
up kids and stuff. So the first real thing I'd
say is just give yourself a bit of a break,
you know.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
And food for next year. But it's like we need
to throw away perfect. That's the best advice that anyone
because just we're.
Speaker 4 (54:06):
Throwing away perfect and we can look perfect on socials
and all that sort of stuff, but at the end
of the day, what happens here, you know, just between
the four walls and a family. If you're kind and
you're having a crack and you're trying to do the
right thing, that's enough, you know, Like it's bloody, bloody hard.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
So one thing we can do so easily, and they
give us no bloody proper manuals exactly, you know.
Speaker 4 (54:26):
And every kid's different too, like something that for your
son that I might have done a jack may not work,
and with your daughters you might go, well, I tried
that and that didn't work, because they were all little,
beautiful little things, individual things. And I used to say
to Vicks if she went out and I was looking
after the kids, as long as they're breathing when you
get home, you should be happy with me, Like she
(54:46):
said to me once, no bad food, no stupid decisions.
She was going away for a three day trip anyway,
So we rang her from the pizza hut. We then
rang her from the dog kennel, and then the third
thing is we were having an ice cream with the
dog in the back of the.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Gap and I said, don't tell me what to do, Gussie,
You've got an anniversary to get to. Yes, huge, congrats
once again for the next thirty years. Thanks Maddie of
Happy Perfect. I'm sure there was never a dull moment.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Never a dull moment hasn't been perfect.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
Well done, and thanks so much for the chat.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
Thanks man, Thanks and just quickly thank you for sixteen
years on the air in our ears. Congratulations and wish
you the best of luck with gotcha yeah and the
future of that.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
I can't wait to see. Thanks mate, what happens?
Speaker 1 (55:32):
And thanks again for coming on.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
It's a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Thanks boys, Matt.
Speaker 3 (55:38):
It's been a while since we've had a dad that
is just a few steps ahead of us.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Makes me nervous. Youngest twenty two. That feels like an
absolute lifetime away that my little my kids are going to.
Speaker 5 (55:49):
Be that old.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review,
a little five star subscribe even you know the drill?
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (55:56):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (55:57):
If you thought about subscribing, you've never done it up
until now. Take the plunge. Yes, you will be cherry.
You won't regret it. And if you do shut up.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
We also have social media Two Doting Dads on Instagram
and TikTok, and we have a Facebook group that is
bustling what.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Don't we have? What don't we are we got at all?
If there's something missing that we should get. Also tell
us we will listen to you guys, whatever you want.
We're here. We're open to your feedback, as long as
it's not too constructive.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Let's not overpromise.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
Yes, but until next time, we'll see then see it.
Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
Speaker 3 (56:42):
We pay our respects to their elders past and present
and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander
people's today. This episode was recorded on Gadagle Land
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