February 23, 2025 • 45 mins
Megan Schutt is an Australian fast bowler who is mum to little Rylee.
Schutt and her wife Jess became parents through the process of reciprocal IVF, where Megan's egg is fertilised using donor sperm and implanted into Jess's womb.
Despite falling pregnant quickly, Jess' pregnancy was high-risk and led to Rylee's premature birth at only 24 weeks during the height of COVID-19.
Megan shares how her family navigated the sperm donation process, Jess' high-risk pregnancy and how they took care of Rylee after her premature birth.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ash. We've got a very exciting guest on today. Meghan
Shoot is an Australian fast bowler who was also mum
to little Riley.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Shooter as they call her around here. And her wife
Jess became parents through the process of reciprocal IVF, where
Meghan's egg is fertilized using donor sperm and implanted into Jess's.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Whom now Despite falling pregnant quickly, Jess's pregnancy was considered
high risk and led to Riley's premature birth that only
twenty four weeks during the height of COVID.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Meghan shares how her and her family navigated the sperm
donation process, jess as high risk pregnancy, and how they
took care of Riley after her premature birth.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Let's get into it. Welcome back to two doting dads
and one doting mum. I'm Mattie, j.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm Ash and I'm Meg Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I thought you're going to go with a shooter.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, nickname Shooter.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Does anyone ever call you McGavin a lot?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, people get really creative with the nicknames and McGavin
is common, but shooter generally sticks because it's the easiest
one to say.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I like Shooter.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I like Shooter too solid.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
We'll go with that.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
But this is a podcast all about parenting. It is
the good, it is the bad, and the relatable and
now Shooter. We don't give any advice at all. So
if ever there was a question in the back of
your mind, do these guys expect anything that remotely comes
close to advice, We don't, and nor did the listeners.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
But if you've got anything, we'll take it.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I mean, an unsolicited pairing advice is my favorite, So
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Now, we always start off with our guests when they
were a youngster. Were you someone who was well behaved?
Did you require a lot of discipline?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Discipline's a strong word. I probably wasn't overly well behaved.
I'm one of three and I'm the perfect middle child.
But did get up to a bit of mischief, and
I like to say that cricket probably kept me from
straying down a further line. But we grew up pretty
pretty poor, So I was a bit of a thief
back in the day. Not gonna lie, had a pretty
good five things A discount like that was that was, yeah,
(02:07):
pretty common for me.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Do you remember that the first thing is stole.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
No, but like Kmart was regularly hit for all kinds of.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
That's me. Now I've just I've just found crime and
I really like it. O. Yeah, yeah, I'm the best, because.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
The best used to be if the beeper like went
off as I was walking out and just acting really
casual about it, and I was like, am I a
good buyer?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah? You just question it?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
But everyone claims on his kids.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh, it's actually really clever going you out for every
time we leave, came out whatever I can feel in
the bag. I had more of a food stealer. Oh
yeah it does. It does cost a living, true, But
we did start on clothes.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Do you remember do you remember the most trouble you
got into? Was there one thing in particular that sticks out?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I was pretty good at not getting caught, To be honest,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
There's until now.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I've been in trouble. Now if my parents are listening
to this, But now, we were generally pretty good, and
to be fair, it was a pretty good they, so
we never we never got busted for anything. But I
don't know, just when you have too much time on
your hands and not a whole lot to do, it's
kind of you just make a little bit of trouble,
but not anymore. I'm pretty good now.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And were your parents were they strict or were they
turned a blind eye to it?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
What free flowing? And it's probably me trying to test
the boundaries to trying to get their retention. But my
dad was great because he was just crazy. I was like,
if I woke up and I was like, I don't
want to go to school today, it'd be like, all right,
don't so I wouldn't end It's good. It gave me
like the choice, and so half the time like because
it wouldn't take much to test it, I wouldn't really
test it, and I go to school most of the time.
(03:48):
But yeah, and my mum was also pretty casual, like
very casual house just in general, which was good and bad.
But my sister, probably my oldest sister, probably got more
of the district pairing, and then as we went down
we get less more of what the kids did.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I've noticed that as a parent, there's the more children
you have, the more you're like, ah, that'd be fun,
I'll figure it out home.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I said, I've only got two, and even the second,
I'm yeah, the third one would be like, if I
had a third one, I'd be like, who.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Who is raise yourself?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And you've got an older sister and a younger brother. Yeah, yeah,
are you close?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Close enough? We're all pretty low maintenance, and that's great
because I'm a terrible replier on text. But three very
different humans. Me and my brother are pretty similar. And
then my sister is her own kind of world, but
not involved in the sporting world whatsoever, so it doesn't
quite understand a few times She's text to catch up
for coffee when I'm in Sri Lanka or something, so
doesn't quite understand the sporting lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
I guess who was it that induced you to cricket?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Then the boys at school? I was like, always a
bit twitchy, always had a lot of energy, and so
just kind of focused it on sport. And all my
best friends were born, and one day, just filling in
for the local boys club, that happened to be a
scout there for girls cricket, Like it was just fate
that he happened.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
To be there.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And how old are you at this time?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Eleven? So it was a even a late bloomer to it.
I didn't even really like cricket till I was probably
like fifteen or sixteen and started to understand the nu
answers of it, I guess. But yeah, just played every
kind of sport under the sun, I guess, and fell
into cricket.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
How did cricket become number one?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Then? For you?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Probably the challenge of it. It's a stupid sport and
like like well said, you failed more times than you
succeed and like it humbles you very very quickly. And
I guess I enjoyed that challenge of it, and also
being the only really girl that played it. At my score,
it was a bit of id run on spit spiders
my true motivation, so just trying to prove people wrong,
(05:49):
I guess, and be first and be good at something
and be better than the boys. So I yes, stuck
with cricket and then made some good friendships that are
still my best friends today.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Are you talking about out particular types of friendships because
we love a bit of a work romance here on
the podcast.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yes, your wife, yeah, yeah, she's not a cricketer, thank goodness,
but you kind of met through yeah, I think, Yeah,
how she doesn't play cricket because that would just be
too much Cricket in the house. She was working for
Cricket Australia at the time. Was up at the National
Cricket Center where we trained for Australian camps, and she's
working behind the desk. She was the facility's officer. But
(06:28):
I just caught a receptionist to kiss her off. But
I basically like.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
She's the manager of first impressions.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, and I was like, I'm going to try and
woo the receptions here and wow, I did so. I mean,
I think we're almost ten years together now, so that
was a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
What was you like your wooing mood? Did you bring
like dessert or chocolate.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Or I'm just naturally pretty charming?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Now we always said that.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Walking in here, I felt it coffee was a pretty
easy one to like start off with. And as athlete,
we drink far too much coffee, so on camps we'd
probably go for four or five a day and I
just either bring them back or invite her out for them,
and slowly, with time just wonder over. So I honestly
didn't take very long. But she was working with Kroug
(07:16):
Australia for a long time.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Actually, do you have to keep that secret at all
at any point where where I used to work. I
remember there was an office relationship and it was not
that it wasn't allowed, but they're just like, oh, maybe
it might not seem professional of people.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Just disclose it with hr Yeah, did you guys?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Did you guys?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Go?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
We'll give it a couple of months to see if
this is going to be something rock solid and then
we can announce it to people.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Nah. I'm not subtle at all, And so even if
there was, like even if we should have hidden it,
we didn't. I think because she's not really involved in
high performance or anything coaching, it didn't feel like I
didn't even give it a second or thought. To be
honest with we probably should have hit it for a
little while. But yeah, that was never going to be
(07:59):
a thing. And I'm like very open and honest about everything.
So I think had someone even asked when I was
trying to hid it, I just tell them anyway, love
each other, weird coffee speak, we love each other.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And you you're from South Australia, right, and Jess is
from hambur originally, So how did that work? You were
just there on camp right?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah, she moved to Brisbane. She was at teen and
had been working at Crete Australia for a long time,
and we were going out for camps very regularly. This
is back when we weren't fully professional in terms of contracts,
and so we'd go up for camps pretty regularly just
to mainly get her ass kicked because they could. And
so we'd visit Brisbane because they're the only place with
(08:40):
turf wickets all year round, and spent a bit of
time up there, so I actually had quite a lot
of time to work on Jess. So yeah, and at
what point did you and just start talking about starting
a family. I don't want to be typical lesbian, but
probably pretty early, like you want.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
To put these I don't noticed about.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
You guys, wouldn't I forget your crowd. We've moved pretty
quick now. I don't know. As I said, I'm pretty
open and honest. So like I grew up not really
caring about having kids, I had no desire to do so,
but it wasn't against it. And whereas Jess was like
the most nurturing, caring, motherly person you've ever been in life,
and so like early days, it was pretty much we'll
have kids and if we don't went not together, and
(09:24):
it was like okay, And with time that changed, and
I guess like for me, it was like meeting the
right person to feel like I wanted to have kids.
And once I was with Jess, I realized that I
did want kids. So that was clearly a person thing,
but pretty early because obviously in a lesbian relationship you're
gonna have to go through quite a process to achieve that.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So that's where we don't have a lot of experience. Yeah,
and we'd love to be informed. Okay, so when you
do mate the call, yes we want to start a family,
where do you find sperm? Well in this room recently
(10:05):
had aversect me. Well, I said recently a couple of
years ago.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I'm a proud owner with a two thousand and two
vsecto me.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
It's it's different at every state and it's different at
every fertility place as well. So for us, we went
through Reprimed, which is a South Australian company, and that
was the first place we happened to go to and
the guy there happened to love cricket, be a part
of cricket, and I was just like, this is fate.
We're going to use this place.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Do you mean the guy that the sperm.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Said, So yeah, we went there and had really good
feels about it, and they said, look, I reprimented. You
have two options, and that's you ear Ago with local
South Australian sperm, or we're connected with California cry Bank
in America and being from Adelaide, everyone knows everyone, and
I don't really want to turn the corner and be
like that guy has the features that my daughter has.
(11:03):
And so we kind of thought Adelaide's probably a bit
too close to home. And it was only like ten
donors anyways, and Adelaide at the time, and they.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Probably went, and so we went being serious or not
in terms of ten donors.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
No, it was there was eleven. To be precise, there
was eleven donors, not much and also like it was
super different to California Crybank with limited details, no photos.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
They all had the same last name though.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
The same height was weird, and so yeah, we decided
to go with an American sperm and then it was just
a different world of it became a catalog, so it
was you literally sign it up to a subscription which
recommend pays for thank goodness, and you put in the
features you want and Bob drunkle and you just go
through it. And there is certain genetic testing that they've
got to have done to be available for Australia, but.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Like a filter, yeah, lowest time, high price, all the
same price.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
So they met at a diplomatic at least. But it
was mind blowing because it was a catalog and you
just shift through what you wanted and like we would
have had going from ten or eleven donors in Adelaide
to thousands of donors in America, so we kinda and
how we wanted to do it was so we did
reciprocal IVF, so Raley's my egg and we got donor
(12:25):
sperm and my wife Jess carried and so we wanted
features that were similar to Jess, and so we're trying
to choose like dirty blonde, hazel eyes, and like going
through that, it actually was quite quite a few of them.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
So how do you get it down to like ten?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
That was a hard part.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, I can't. It's like it's nice to have all
the options, yeah, but then it's kind of like I'm
looking with choice.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah, yeah, Well we're both in decisive humans that actually
did take. It was a long process, like I'm talking
about it, like this happened really quick. This was over,
of course, probably twelve months, and there were a few
donors that we wanted that were sold. So in America,
obviously you're paid to do it and it just goes
really quickly. So all they're like, good looking blokes are
going pretty quick, and so we'd put in and by
the time that time difference the email would get there,
(13:08):
they get back and be like really sorry, they're not
available or they haven't topped up, and you're like, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I must be disheartening for those guys. It's like, do
you need more than ten years?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
And I thought that same thing, because then you don't
want to be too polite in your life and just
to people because they haven't had any vials taken. But
it does tell you. So it's a max of twenty
families and they might say they've had eighteen out of
their twenty families done and then they're cut and so
you'd kind of know once that have been chosen more
(13:39):
than the others. So it does get a little bit sad.
But there was a few about I think our top
three because they'd done genetic testing, and so would we
we both like carried similar things, and so reprimand would
come back and say, like, there's a one in thirty
chance they might have this, so we'd l like you
to choose someone else. So there was our top probably
two or three. We didn't get through not being an sperm,
(14:00):
or they'd been cut off with their families, or the
next couple clash for something that I carried. So we
ended up choosing this guy and went with him. And
then I just remember like six Rileys about six months
old and eyes were still blistering blue, and I was like,
they're not changing. I was like, we chose like a
Hazel guy. I'm Hazel, you know. And then we realized
(14:21):
we've been thinking about the wrong donor for like the
last nine months, and we just like lost it laughing wise.
I was like, holy shit, we've been pepturing.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Sixty five.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
What his numbers right, So it's like zero, one, nine five,
and you're like, oh crap. We were thinking of this one.
And so we went on the profile and it was
like six months of thinking like Riley's eyes are going
to change, you know, And I was like oh, And
it was so funny. But also not and it was
(14:53):
it was the weirdest thing ever. And we ended up
choosing just by like health and stuff like similar features,
but health history was impeccable. So I was like, I'm
not sure how much this guy's lying, but he's pretty
much perfect and his famous perfect. So but it was
a world of information and like we could hear his
voice was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
What do they say? What's what's the pre recorded message?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
They will have like a sit down with the nurse
over there and they just have a casual conversation and
you don't have to listen to their voice, but we
chose to.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I thought it was like Tinder, you old grimy and
they got their little voice. They could sing a song
to you or something. You know. Have you seen that
so like on a prof on a dating profile, it's
got like you can leave a voice message. She was like, hey, baby,
welcome to Marhasure. It was just something like it's like, hey,
my eyes are really blue.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Do you remember that any any phrases in particular that
stood out.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
No, he had no phrases. He just sounded a bit
typically American, you know how they're just naturally that little
bit arrogant and.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Just like where's the camera, they take a photo.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
They're really prepped in what they're saying. And he tried
to sound really smart, which I think, like judging by
what he told us, he was educated with he was art,
but like he just seemed very confident in what he
was doing. And it was a bit outgoing. But I
guess that's all Americans. So we didn't listen to everyone's
voice that we were trying to choose, just because it
got a bit weird.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
But is there anyone he listened to and go?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
There was a couple that we listened to and I
don't know if it's a vibe or you don't like
their voice, which is a really mean thing. If there
was a big twang, probably would have. But it was
just an overwhelming amount of information and like it was
just so different to the South Australian process obviously if
(16:35):
we went through them. So we ended up going with that.
And they call it super Sperm because it's extremely successful apparently,
so that just tots the American lifestyle even more.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I guess, Wow, super sperm and your decision to use
your eggs with Jess, is that something that's quite common?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Not, it's probably becoming more common. It was a way
of like, I guess, as two mums, you feel a
bit like scared that you might not have the bond
with the child if you're not genetically related. And we thought,
if we were in the position to be able to
afford to do IVF, then we might as well do
reciprocal And.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Does it complicate things at all?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Well, in the end, they think that we might have
had Riley prematurely because of that with two foreign bodies.
I guess, with it being a foreign egg and foreign sperm,
but I was like, all sperm as foreign, so the one.
But yeah, they We've had friends that have gone through
reciprocal and had absolutely zero issues. So I just think
they don't really know why we had a premie and
(17:33):
just chuck the blame on that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
But can we talk about the premiere a little bit.
Obviously Jess is carrying. At what stage do you think
something is not right? I don't know, for a lack
of a better term.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Something red flags. Basically, it was at the twenty week mark,
which was quite small, but both Jess and I would
like small babies, so we weren't really concerned. And they're
like We're just going to monitor things a little bit more.
And then at the time twenty four week scan, which
we weren't supposed to have, but our obstetrician was like,
I just consent something, and so we had an extra
scan and she hadn't grown at all, and that all
(18:10):
the alarm bells went off.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
And they when was the last scan prior to that,
prior to the twenty week yeah, or so was it
twenty and then twenty four four weeks?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
No weeks no, basically zero and she went from being
in like the fiftieth percentile to the fifth.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
The next scan was under one percent for everything, and
all your red flags went up and they were like, look,
she's she's not getting the nutrients that we'd like her too.
You're going to have to be monitored. We could take
her out any day from now. So from the twenty
four week mark they told us to pack our bags
for the hospital and just be prepped to go in
any day. And at this point she was estimated like
three hundred and eighty grams or something like that, so
(18:48):
they were kind of also, you know, have some conversation
about she might not.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Make it, and I'm going to sound really stupid here,
But what's the ideal weight that you want to be hitting.
If she's only three hundred and eighty, oh at that.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Point, you want over at six hundred at least.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Holy shit.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
It was all like yeah, all the markers though, so
not just wait, Like everything was down and they said,
any day that we can scrape from twenty four weeks
is great, and we ended up almost getting to twenty
nine weeks, so we're pretty lucky in that regard.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But were you still playing at this point or do
you have time off?
Speaker 3 (19:21):
I was training. I don't think we had any tours,
but I was supposed to go on a tour against
India and didn't end up going on that because I
knew we were going to potentially have Riley in that time.
Like they said, there's basically zero chances you're getting into
thirty weeks, and they were right, so I kind of
knew plans were going to have to change a little bit.
But Jess was in and out of hospital in that time. Like,
(19:42):
we had so many scans like dopplers and grows scans
and everything in between, so it was just they were amazing,
Like we had an amazing obstetrician and great people to
go through. But this is also during COVID, so oh yeah,
so many extra loopholes to go through, and just a
lot of sass from some of them nurses and stuff
about you know, you're choosing to have a baby during
(20:03):
COVID time, so you can't really complain about this. So
that I'm a pretty aggressive human when I want to be,
and so there was a lot of times that we
also didn't call me back.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, I didn't speak this to drag on for as
long as it had so shut up.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, I was like, we're all out, and it's like, oh,
we're going to go back in.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I think the worst time was like when we were
actually in hospital and you had limited visitors and it
was only parents that were allowed, and so half the
time like just would go in earlier and I'd go
to training and come in later. And I'd go to
go in, They're like, no, the mum's already in, and
I'm like, I'm the other mum and they're like and
they like wouldn't believe me. They'd think that I'm trying
to sneak in and this kid, and so I'd have
(20:39):
to either go around to the other entrance and try
and get up the other way, go in a different
wing and do this. There was a few times that
they were like literally refusing to let me in because
they didn't believe that she had two mums. They thought
I was just someone else China.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
That's so narrow minded, Like especially in the year like
year was it twenty one, twenty one? I'm like, at
least don't just be like no, like scan the system.
I really want to visit this baby.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I'm just so really want to go into a ward
where I'm confronted with lots of small children.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, so did they do they know what the issue
was why Riley stopped growing.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I think Adventus called or something. It was the percenter
basically Biblical corps was at the bottom of the percenter
rather than the center of it, and so just wasn't
getting the flow of nutrients that she needed. And they
kept a close eye on that with lots of scans
and stuff. When we got steroids into jests and we
got admitted to hospital a couple of times with like
(21:34):
a D cell and a heart rate basically in Riley's
heart rate, and so they monitored her and a few
we had it once we got admitted and they were like,
you know, you'll stay in here till she's born. So
we're like wrapping her heads around that. And then two
days later like see you later. Actually she's all right,
and so we go home and then I reckon like
four days after that, we're back in hospital and they're like, okay,
for real, now you will stay.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Until what was that whiplash like of like it's going
to happen. No, it's not. It's going to happen now
it's not.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I mean, it took more of a toll than what
I thought what it did. I'm like, a I'm my dad,
like just hide emotions and think that everything is going
well and try and be the tough parent, the tough one.
And so Jess is quite an emotional human and a
bit more regulated probably, so I just pretend everything was
okay and would just be the calm one in the situation,
be like, well, just go with the flow is what
(22:19):
it is. We can't control it, which is also the truth.
But it was heavy with just trying to wrap our
heads around how we're going to live our lives, with
knowing we're going to have a premie, but not how
early or how healthy. And that was kind of the
hardest part, was like not even the in and out
of hospital, just like home life, like how were we going
to look after our fur children and work and friends
(22:41):
and everything else in between. Yeah, we're pretty lucky that
we had great nurses in there and a great obstetrician,
because I think, yeah, had they been lackluster, it would
have been really hard.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
So twenty eight weeks, how long does Bob have to
stay in hospital for?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
You're pretty much told till gestations, so like forty weeks.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Is the the normal long time, but.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Like if they have problems and they could be in
there obviously longer. And I mean, we were so lucky.
So so it's twenty eight weeks, six days it was.
I got a call. Our opposition came in the morning,
was like, everything's fine, go off, do your training whatever,
And so I finished training, hopped back in the car,
and I was going back to the hospital anyways, and
I get a call from Jess and she's like she
didn't say anything other than they're doing it right now.
(23:23):
And I was like what, and she's like, yeah, there
was an acceleration and a heart rate. They've decided everything
is not okay, and they're taking her out right now.
So I like raced back to the hospital, which is
luckily just across the road from Adelaide Oval, perfectly located,
and yeah, that's it. Like two hours later, bank Riley
was out and she was great, Like she let out
a little cry, which is not what's saying we expected
(23:45):
at twenty eight weeks, and was healthy, like her lungs
were great, and so she never needed to be an
a ventilator or oxygen.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Do they do a C section then or yep?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
And I looked up at the wrong time over she
shouldn't have done.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
But also, you know, it's not a pretty side.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
It was more confronting than what I thought. I was like, yeah,
I can see blood and gore, like I watched these
shows all the time, I'll be fine and then but
seeing it as Jess was so much less than what
I thought. So I had to hide trying not to
pass out.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
But you did better than some of us.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I didn't even get to that point before I passed out.
I only got to the epidural and I passed out.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I was parking the car and he passed out.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
My wife gave but my wife gave two c sections,
but the second one is one I fainted and she
gave birth. I was still on the ground. I was
like looking up, like you did, just stay there? So yeah,
it did better than me. But it's not pretty, is it.
I didn't even get to that bit when that happened.
I was already laying down, so it was.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Good, good, well, won't hurt and you're in the right place.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Was like, what are you looking after him for? Yeah,
it's pretty brutal.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
What's it like in that period than when is born?
But you have to go home empty handed.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, that's the hardest part. That when I struggled a
bit more with them, I thought I wouldn't. And it's
just such a trust in the process, in the people,
and you know that everyone who works at the hospital
was there to help people, and you just obviously have
nurses you like more than the others. But yeah, saying
goodbye of a nighttime was really really hard. And for
(25:25):
the first night because since she was so PREMI we
couldn't go to a private hospital. It had to be
public and so like I wasn't supposed to say the
night but the nurses pretended that they didn't know I
was there. And I slept on these cushions on the floor,
And so for the first couple of nights were okay
because Jess was still in recovering from the C section,
so I got to be in there a little more
than what others would have.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
It's really strange, isn't it. When you're like, it's the
miracle of life, but then in the blink of an eye,
you're like, sleeping on two cushions on the floor.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
This is what's happening.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
It was even weirder to watch like people be churned
out in less than twenty four hour, like to see
women that have gone in there at the same time
we did and be leaving in like twelve hours after
giving birth. Here's a human take it home. And you're like,
like that was more scary, Like, in some ways, I'm
kind of grateful that we got time at a hospital
to learn how to care for a baby. Like we
got so much nursing experience that other parents don't get
(26:17):
because they just shoved out with their children so quick.
So it was trying to be like grateful for the
extru experience that we got, because that was the more
confronting thing, is like, once we do take Riley home.
That's it. There's no nurse around the corner to tell
us what that cry means or you know what we
should be doing.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So how long was it before you got to take it? Right?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
She ended up taking home at what she would have
been thirty six weeks, So we got four weeks ahead
of schedule, which was bloody awesome. And she went home
on the NED program, which is basically like she's still
being fed through a nasal tube, but we could do
that at home. So obviously pass a few things to
tick that off. But yeah, we got home four weeks
ahead of what we thought. And then obviously we met
(26:56):
some families that were in there that were well past
their forty weeks, Like there was some implications lung terun
developed or so that some families have been in there
for six months, you know, and so we're like, holy
how we've really got a good end of the stick here.
And you took her home early, and she pretty much
once she hit two point four kilos, we could take
her home. So it was kind of just the waiting
(27:16):
game because again we got really lucky with she was
healthy and they called her an organized banana. I remember
just specifically that was like what they were her? After
like two days, I was like, what a weird thing
to say. So that always just come from I don't know.
He was a weird fellaw otologist. He was a wonderful man.
I love cricket and would like explain everything in cricket terms.
(27:38):
I'd be sitting down.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And beautiful cover drap, Well that's it.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
He's like, okay, you know, he's like, we're out the
power play now. He's like, the sweepers are out, and
he's like, we're just we're milk and the sweepers. We're
just hitting ones. He's like, it's boring cricket. It's the
waiting game. He's like, but you know, we're just ticking away,
getting the right sit there, and I'm like that's perfect.
And we'd leave and Jess and be like what the fuck?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, I have no.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Idea what he just said. And I'm like, okay, she's
doing well, all right, just to take out of that,
she's doing well. So he was. But yeah, early days
he caught her organized banana. I was like, what a
strange thing to call her. And then that just like
kind of stuck, and she knew what she was doing
and was just like he didn't take but he was
like he would like kind of wake her if he
wanted her attention, Like the first rule is to not
wake the baby, right, So I'm like, why you're waking
(28:26):
my baby? But he was wonderful, and yeah, she was
really good. Like we were only had a couple of
days that we kind of went backwards while we're in there,
So our actual experience in the hospital was smooth as
well as smooth as it could possibly get. But it
was just trying to juggle that with training was a
bit annoying, but still a decent position. I guess.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Going back and forth in the hospital and being in
that situation for any family, I can't I can't imagine
the toll it takes on you when you do finally
get home. How did you cope when you were home,
you were a family, you're back with, you have dogs, cats,
or you're all back together. How did you handle it?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Overwhelming? I reckon. We got maybe two hours of sleep
each night for the first like month. It was insane.
Riley's still a terrible sleeper, So that's great that one
didn't wear out. But yeah, we have a dog and
a cat, and those two just absolutely blanked Raley, like
didn't care about her existence whatsoever. So that was kind
of great because we were sad. We're like hoping they
would really bond, but they just didn't give a shit yet.
(29:24):
But it was mainly like scary because, like, as I said,
we're on our own now. We don't have a nurse
to just call up. Like we were probably over protective
because of her start to life, and like taking her
out for a walk, we'll probably you know, wait for
the perfect conditions rather than just going, no, we all
need to be outdoors, like we've been trapped inside, and
just we were probably a bit too sensitive to things,
and we were super rigid with following every rule ever
(29:48):
told about to be around newborns. And then obviously we
covid around like if anyone sneezed or something, we're like,
oh my god, we need to get out of here.
And it was just like it was a weird time,
but it was also really cool because we're finally home
in our own space. I didn't have really too much
cricket until Big Bash started, so I was home a lot,
(30:08):
and being able to adjust a home life was really nice.
It was just a little bit different than what we'd expected.
And again, if we have a second child, I think
we'd be a bit more laxed with that one.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I read somewhere and tell me if this is not
something you've spoken about openly before, but Jess went through
postnatal depression. Yeah, when did you realize that that was
something that you guys were going to start tackling.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Ah, we probably didn't address it as early as we
should have. I mean, the signs were there, but as
I said, I'm probably not the best with handling my
own emotions.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So when you say the signs for people out there
who may have no idea, what do you now know
in hindsight what those signs were?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Probably not connecting with Riley as much as like a
mother would, and then she would get the guilts about
not connecting with Riley, and so it was kind of
the double fold there. That was the main one, and
just being unhappy big a lot of the time and
not appreciating the small moments, I guess, And we'd have
our moments of joy, don't get me wrong, but I
guess the overall feel was probably sadness. And Riley was
(31:11):
a really tough baby, like she didn't sleep, witching, hour
was absolute hell, and you just get that anxiety would
come in like five minutes till six. You just bang
on and you just knew it was coming in the
last about an hour and a half months on end,
and you're like, this is horrible. And I think we
blamed a lot of it on Riley being hard rather
than realizing that it was actually more of a mental
side for Jess. So, I mean, I'm pretty good at
(31:33):
like keeping things light hearted and we're just try and
make things fun and probably brushed it off a little bit.
I guess when Jess was like, I'm not feeling well
and finally addressed it.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
It's tough when there's no sleep too, for any parent
an your parents like that early stage, like you just
the phrase witching hour makes my hand stand on end.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
And I'm like, oh makes me anxious.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Now, yeah, it's probably really hard to I mean, now
you look back and see the signs, but in the moment,
you're just too tired.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
You're just trying to function. You're just trying to get
by and look after that human and we probably like
didn't talk about our feelings a lot because we're just
too focused on Riley. And you do you forget about
your relationship and that takes time to I guess, become
the center of attention, I guess, and it never really
truly goes back to the same. But I think we
weren't probably communicating at all because we're just in, you know,
(32:23):
function mode of just tick off a box and try
and keep Riley safe and healthy. And then we're getting
by life. And then because things probably weren't getting better
with Riley for a long time, it was probably dragged
on a bit longer, and then we're like, we probably
need to address some things.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Did you did you seek help, like like together, Like
was there anything you did that really helped you sort
of overcome that?
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Jess started seeing a psych. I probably should have in hindsight. Again,
I just I would feel I would feelter everything into
sport and just take my mind off it by thanks
for training or just find a way to weasel sports
the way out of it, and eventually had my own
little mental break down, I guess, and finally started seeing
a psych. But Jess was good and eventually saw a
psych and that helped her immediately of just feeling like
(33:07):
you're a part of something and knowing you're not alone
and so many people feel like this that was the
most reassuring thing because every mother on social media obviously
mainly post the good stuff parents.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
The way you described the beginning early stages of Riley's life,
it's to a t it was with Lola.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Second, like it was just you could like identical.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
It was crazy and people probably think all they do
think in that moment, I must be the only one
dealing with this when like when someone like yourself or
like we've had other people open up about it, you
know on the podcast where they go, oh, hang on
a minute, other people are dealing with the same thing.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
So well, we all need to talk about the bad
times more. And I guess that's the relatable part good
plugin for you. But like, yeah, we all just post
obviously the happy photos and stuff that happened, all the
funny shot themselves photos.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
You know everything, we all laugh.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
But like the hard times of like Jess not getting
too much free time to just go get a coffee
by herself, or wanting to play her own music in
the car versus you know something for Riley, and like
the little things that I would take for granted with
my sport and being able to go away because I
would get the guilts of being away from Riley.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, what was your schedule like when you had to
start playing again.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Pretty much just went back to being away a lot,
like we're on a bad year. We're away, like physically
out of home, like six months of the year. And
then you think of trainings in between our own camps
for Australia, in between State Staff, Big Bash, everything that
comes into play. You're on the road a hell of
a lot. And so I tried to transition slowly back
in with Big Bash and not go to the first
(34:41):
couple away games that we had, but after that there
was kind of no control. Like at the end of
the day, you've got to go back to your job,
I guess, and that was hard. So I'd have the
guilts of like leaving Riley, leaving Jess with Riley, knowing
how anxious Raley was, and we're so blessed to have
Jess's parents down with us. But I'd come back and
then I'd kind of get angry just for not understanding
my gilts, knowing she's got a completely different lifestyle and
(35:03):
her like my things that I was guilty about, which
was being away, you know, being your own free time
is exactly what she needed, and so it probably took
a while for her to communicate what she needed to
feel better and for me to actually push for that
and go like, no, I'll take Riley for the next
two hours. If you just want to go sit on
the grass in the park down the road, you go
do it. And we probably took too long to get
(35:24):
to that of Jess actually saying this is what I need?
Can you can you help me? Versus I probably should
have been asking as well, like what do you need
to feel better for yourself? And we eventually got there.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
But it's easy at this point to look back and
it's so obvious. Sometimes I used to call it getting eggy,
and if I got too eggy, you just means I
was getting a bit shitty. And Laura would say, you
just need to go for a walk, like just go
for a walk for twenty minutes, or just go for
like a like half an hour run. Just get out
there and something as simple as that is what you need.
But in the moment, you don't think it's going to
(35:55):
make much.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
A different regulate as well as hope, which is like
being the blessing of having a is realizing that we
do not regulate as adults the way that we think
we do. So like it's been like that was a
huge learning curve. I even realizing what I need, like
what feels my bucket outside of cricket. I didn't really
realize what that was until Riley kind of came around
and just started playing soccer again, and so that kind
(36:16):
of was like an escape for her at least a
few nights a week and for games and stuff like that.
So it was like we slowly filled that cut back up,
but that took far longer than probably what it should
have if we just probably communicated a bit better. But
it was a learning curve for all of us in
realizing we probably didn't communicate as well as what we
thought we did pre Riley anyway, So it's been a
relationship curve as well.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Is this psych responsible for this or is this you
guys figuring it out over time?
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I think a bit of both. I think her psych
was great for her deep dark thoughts that I've not
even really asked her about, because that's for her to
share if she wants to. But I've got my own
sych that I see as well, And I think the
combo of us coming home and sharing bits and pieces
about like what we learned in that and then molding
it together was the big learning curve and going why
(37:03):
weren't we doing this beforehand? For one, but two also
just listening to each other more like and I mean
we all speak about love languages and we joke about,
you know, people matching because of them, but really actually
making sure that you are ticking those boxes off, because
I think the simple things of the love language is
really important when you've got another little human.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
To focus on. Yeah, it's really good at giving you
the tools for that because you might you might personally
be like, Okay, well I know what I need and
Jess might know what she needs, but how do we
communicate that properly? So and it's done properly so that
we can resolve a problem or feel each other's cup
or get back to the love language that you talk about.
(37:41):
So they're really good at giving tools. Yeah, it takes
a lot of time, though, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Do you think that you will ever carry I'm a
fifty to fifty I'm like, I was probably more inclined
to carry pre rightly, but now knowing everything that can
go wrong in apprecation.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
That's exactly how I feel, and like everyone will be like, yeah,
you're an ath, Like you might just not want to
ruin your body. I don't give a shit about that.
I don't care about ruining my body, like I'll fix
it back up. But like it's the fact that I'm
now educated on what can go wrong at any stage
through out of pregnancy. It's like when people get to,
you know, the fourteen week mark and then they post
about you know, they finally reveal like I'm out of danger.
I'll tell people I'm pregnant now, like you're never out
(38:18):
of danger, and like that freaks me the shit out.
And now that we've had that bad experience, and generally
when you have a premier, you're probably going to have
another premiere, is what you're told. And so it's kind
of like a scared the shit out of me. Like
I would say, I'm less likely to carry now that
we've we've had Riley, and if we ever decide on that,
like I'm happy to do it, I'll just be scared
(38:39):
the whole time.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
If you do it again, do you use the same
sperm that you use the first time?
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, so you got to make sure you buy in
bulk a bit of a costco shop. It was just
expensive as hell. So we're just lucky it was it
is you do buy and like you, I don't know
how long it's going to take.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
That.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
So our process was different with I got a heap
of eggs out, it was great, ragged about it. We've
got a heap of embryos, and then we got Riley
first go. So we're like, holy shit, this process is easy,
you know. And so there's technically eight embryos frozen eight minie.
Riley's still you know, waiting to come. But it's like
trying to have enough sperm. So like if he hasn't
(39:23):
topped up, and so we've now got I think two
vials left of sperm and that would be enough to
so we've just recently got Jess's eggs out and waste waste,
I shouldn't they waste used a vial and so he
hasn't topped up, and it's like, well he might never
and so he hasn't completely cut off his line, but
he hasn't topped up, which is a weird.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Thing to say.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Oh my god, it's just five more minutes. And so
you've got to kind of plan because you don't know
how long it's going to take, and so we just went, okay,
we'll buy five vials ship them over and yeah, so
he hasn't topped up. And then you've got to have
the convos of you know, if we used it all up,
would we use another We just go back to the
embryos that we have stored, knowing that we'll probably have
a premie baby again, and then how does it work
(40:07):
with my job having Riley and Jess be at the
hospital with a premi and so it just brings you
more conversations. But yeah, we'd look to use the same sperm.
Admittedly there's probably like one or two cycles of that left,
and after that it would just be a discussion of
what we want to do and if he's topped up,
but it doesn't look like he will.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
So when you said that in the clinic that you
went to in Adelaide, there's only eleven different men who
had given samples. Is it as simple as more men
need to donate or are is there red tape that's
stopping people from donating.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
It's a process in Australia, so obviously in America you
get paid, so there's incentive for people to do it.
But at the same time, apparently they go through sych
sessions to make sure they're not just, you know, abusing
the system. I don't quite believe that they're probably just
abusing system, but in Australia you do got to go
through sych sessions so that you're not the way she worded,
I remember the nurse was like, well, we don't want
(40:56):
a guy coming in being like I think I'm genetically superior.
I want to give like my genes rather than just
a genuine guy going. I want to help families who
are struggling to conceive.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
So wean out the psychopaths.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
The world with my own semen.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
But if it's a good looking lad, then you might
as well, that's a great dictator. But yeah, it was.
There is quite a few barriers. And again it's it's
different in every state and the regulation is different. And
I mean that Netflix Stocker came about that guy in
Sweden or wherever who had ended up fathering like a
thousand different kids because the regulations weren't the same in
(41:33):
every country and he thought he was superior. And so
it's like there's there's a lot of hoops you got
to jump through in Australia, but it is not enough
men donate. We're trying to push up numbers through some promos,
but it's a bit of a weird thing to advocate
for in some ways. He's a cut for everyone, cut
for everyone. If you donate, great, But someone.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Was listening and they're thinking, I like the idea of
enabling a family to start, and if I can help
in that process, great. Do they just reach out and
google the nearest clinic.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I'm assuming that would be the case. As I said,
it's different at every single clinic, so I'm sure there'd
be different processes to go through, but I think it'd
be as easy as googling and finding a local clinic
and calling them up and seeing where you start from there.
Because I imagine that you know, most blokes that are doing
it for free are doing it for the right causes,
So you'd like to think that there's a lot of
(42:24):
men out there that could do it.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Sorry, Ash not, you come on, I said, good, I've
done my thing.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
I've got kids. Shoot. I think parenting is incredible, it's amazing.
I love it. Wouldn't change your for ending in the world,
But at the same time, there's so many moments that
are so fucking hard and you're just in the depths
of trying to survive, and it's so nice to hear
someone talk about it so openly in the way that
(42:54):
you have.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
So thank you anytime. I mean, as I said, we
need to talk about these things more open harder than
what people do. But I could chat about parenting for
three different hours.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
So good a pleasure, Thanks much, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Well, thank god, Matthew. We wished her good luck in
the Ashes series because it seems to work.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Can we say credit for that? I'm taking I mean
we did wish a good luck Boca wincidents Australia then
wins the Ashes.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I mean, I have so little I need this.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
We should invoice them for that. Did we just become
coaches of the Australian Cricket.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Assistant coaches Captain coach, We're going to play.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Good luck for the rest of your career, Shooter. Oh,
we'll invoice for that as well.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
If you did enjoy that episode, please leave us a review,
five stars or a couple of nice words for us.
All for me, we'll pass on just a few.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Just I'm out of the jungle. You know I need it.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
You need it now, I need it.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
You know I've been been malnourished with a lack of comments,
and I would appreciate something. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Everyone jump into Matt and send him something nice.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
No, no, no, it has to be public. It has
to be public. If it's if it's private, doesn't count
when people when people message me and say, hey, the
podcast is great, I'm like, shut up and write that
on a pub Shut up and shut up and write
that on a pub.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
No wonder, you're not getting any good comments.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Shut up and write that on a public platform.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
You can also find us on social Let.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Me get up and write that on a public platform. Yeah,
just edit that one up. Let's good at it.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Also, you can do us on social media again. Man,
you've been out of the game for farts, Instagram, Facebook, whatever,
Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
We pay our respects to their elders past and present
and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and tourist at
older people's today
Ash. We've got a very exciting guest on today. Meghan
Shoot is an Australian fast bowler who was also mum
to little Riley.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Shooter as they call her around here. And her wife
Jess became parents through the process of reciprocal IVF, where
Meghan's egg is fertilized using donor sperm and implanted into Jess's.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Whom now Despite falling pregnant quickly, Jess's pregnancy was considered
high risk and led to Riley's premature birth that only
twenty four weeks during the height of COVID.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Meghan shares how her and her family navigated the sperm
donation process, jess as high risk pregnancy, and how they
took care of Riley after her premature birth.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Let's get into it. Welcome back to two doting dads
and one doting mum. I'm Mattie, j.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm Ash and I'm Meg Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I thought you're going to go with a shooter.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, nickname Shooter.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Does anyone ever call you McGavin a lot?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, people get really creative with the nicknames and McGavin
is common, but shooter generally sticks because it's the easiest
one to say.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I like Shooter.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I like Shooter too solid.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
We'll go with that.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
But this is a podcast all about parenting. It is
the good, it is the bad, and the relatable and
now Shooter. We don't give any advice at all. So
if ever there was a question in the back of
your mind, do these guys expect anything that remotely comes
close to advice, We don't, and nor did the listeners.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
But if you've got anything, we'll take it.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I mean, an unsolicited pairing advice is my favorite, So
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Now, we always start off with our guests when they
were a youngster. Were you someone who was well behaved?
Did you require a lot of discipline?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Discipline's a strong word. I probably wasn't overly well behaved.
I'm one of three and I'm the perfect middle child.
But did get up to a bit of mischief, and
I like to say that cricket probably kept me from
straying down a further line. But we grew up pretty
pretty poor, So I was a bit of a thief
back in the day. Not gonna lie, had a pretty
good five things A discount like that was that was, yeah,
(02:07):
pretty common for me.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Do you remember that the first thing is stole.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
No, but like Kmart was regularly hit for all kinds of.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
That's me. Now I've just I've just found crime and
I really like it. O. Yeah, yeah, I'm the best, because.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
The best used to be if the beeper like went
off as I was walking out and just acting really
casual about it, and I was like, am I a
good buyer?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah? You just question it?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
But everyone claims on his kids.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh, it's actually really clever going you out for every
time we leave, came out whatever I can feel in
the bag. I had more of a food stealer. Oh
yeah it does. It does cost a living, true, But
we did start on clothes.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Do you remember do you remember the most trouble you
got into? Was there one thing in particular that sticks out?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I was pretty good at not getting caught, To be honest,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
There's until now.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I've been in trouble. Now if my parents are listening
to this, But now, we were generally pretty good, and
to be fair, it was a pretty good they, so
we never we never got busted for anything. But I
don't know, just when you have too much time on
your hands and not a whole lot to do, it's
kind of you just make a little bit of trouble,
but not anymore. I'm pretty good now.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And were your parents were they strict or were they
turned a blind eye to it?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
What free flowing? And it's probably me trying to test
the boundaries to trying to get their retention. But my
dad was great because he was just crazy. I was like,
if I woke up and I was like, I don't
want to go to school today, it'd be like, all right,
don't so I wouldn't end It's good. It gave me
like the choice, and so half the time like because
it wouldn't take much to test it, I wouldn't really
test it, and I go to school most of the time.
(03:48):
But yeah, and my mum was also pretty casual, like
very casual house just in general, which was good and bad.
But my sister, probably my oldest sister, probably got more
of the district pairing, and then as we went down
we get less more of what the kids did.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I've noticed that as a parent, there's the more children
you have, the more you're like, ah, that'd be fun,
I'll figure it out home.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I said, I've only got two, and even the second,
I'm yeah, the third one would be like, if I
had a third one, I'd be like, who.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Who is raise yourself?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And you've got an older sister and a younger brother. Yeah, yeah,
are you close?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Close enough? We're all pretty low maintenance, and that's great
because I'm a terrible replier on text. But three very
different humans. Me and my brother are pretty similar. And
then my sister is her own kind of world, but
not involved in the sporting world whatsoever, so it doesn't
quite understand a few times She's text to catch up
for coffee when I'm in Sri Lanka or something, so
doesn't quite understand the sporting lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
I guess who was it that induced you to cricket?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Then the boys at school? I was like, always a
bit twitchy, always had a lot of energy, and so
just kind of focused it on sport. And all my
best friends were born, and one day, just filling in
for the local boys club, that happened to be a
scout there for girls cricket, Like it was just fate
that he happened.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
To be there.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And how old are you at this time?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Eleven? So it was a even a late bloomer to it.
I didn't even really like cricket till I was probably
like fifteen or sixteen and started to understand the nu
answers of it, I guess. But yeah, just played every
kind of sport under the sun, I guess, and fell
into cricket.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
How did cricket become number one?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Then? For you?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Probably the challenge of it. It's a stupid sport and
like like well said, you failed more times than you
succeed and like it humbles you very very quickly. And
I guess I enjoyed that challenge of it, and also
being the only really girl that played it. At my score,
it was a bit of id run on spit spiders
my true motivation, so just trying to prove people wrong,
(05:49):
I guess, and be first and be good at something
and be better than the boys. So I yes, stuck
with cricket and then made some good friendships that are
still my best friends today.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Are you talking about out particular types of friendships because
we love a bit of a work romance here on
the podcast.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yes, your wife, yeah, yeah, she's not a cricketer, thank goodness,
but you kind of met through yeah, I think, Yeah,
how she doesn't play cricket because that would just be
too much Cricket in the house. She was working for
Cricket Australia at the time. Was up at the National
Cricket Center where we trained for Australian camps, and she's
working behind the desk. She was the facility's officer. But
(06:28):
I just caught a receptionist to kiss her off. But
I basically like.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
She's the manager of first impressions.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, and I was like, I'm going to try and
woo the receptions here and wow, I did so. I mean,
I think we're almost ten years together now, so that
was a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
What was you like your wooing mood? Did you bring
like dessert or chocolate.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Or I'm just naturally pretty charming?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Now we always said that.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Walking in here, I felt it coffee was a pretty
easy one to like start off with. And as athlete,
we drink far too much coffee, so on camps we'd
probably go for four or five a day and I
just either bring them back or invite her out for them,
and slowly, with time just wonder over. So I honestly
didn't take very long. But she was working with Kroug
(07:16):
Australia for a long time.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Actually, do you have to keep that secret at all
at any point where where I used to work. I
remember there was an office relationship and it was not
that it wasn't allowed, but they're just like, oh, maybe
it might not seem professional of people.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Just disclose it with hr Yeah, did you guys?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Did you guys?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Go?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
We'll give it a couple of months to see if
this is going to be something rock solid and then
we can announce it to people.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Nah. I'm not subtle at all, And so even if
there was, like even if we should have hidden it,
we didn't. I think because she's not really involved in
high performance or anything coaching, it didn't feel like I
didn't even give it a second or thought. To be
honest with we probably should have hit it for a
little while. But yeah, that was never going to be
(07:59):
a thing. And I'm like very open and honest about everything.
So I think had someone even asked when I was
trying to hid it, I just tell them anyway, love
each other, weird coffee speak, we love each other.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And you you're from South Australia, right, and Jess is
from hambur originally, So how did that work? You were
just there on camp right?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah, she moved to Brisbane. She was at teen and
had been working at Crete Australia for a long time,
and we were going out for camps very regularly. This
is back when we weren't fully professional in terms of contracts,
and so we'd go up for camps pretty regularly just
to mainly get her ass kicked because they could. And
so we'd visit Brisbane because they're the only place with
(08:40):
turf wickets all year round, and spent a bit of
time up there, so I actually had quite a lot
of time to work on Jess. So yeah, and at
what point did you and just start talking about starting
a family. I don't want to be typical lesbian, but
probably pretty early, like you want.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
To put these I don't noticed about.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
You guys, wouldn't I forget your crowd. We've moved pretty
quick now. I don't know. As I said, I'm pretty
open and honest. So like I grew up not really
caring about having kids, I had no desire to do so,
but it wasn't against it. And whereas Jess was like
the most nurturing, caring, motherly person you've ever been in life,
and so like early days, it was pretty much we'll
have kids and if we don't went not together, and
(09:24):
it was like okay, And with time that changed, and
I guess like for me, it was like meeting the
right person to feel like I wanted to have kids.
And once I was with Jess, I realized that I
did want kids. So that was clearly a person thing,
but pretty early because obviously in a lesbian relationship you're
gonna have to go through quite a process to achieve that.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So that's where we don't have a lot of experience. Yeah,
and we'd love to be informed. Okay, so when you
do mate the call, yes we want to start a family,
where do you find sperm? Well in this room recently
(10:05):
had aversect me. Well, I said recently a couple of
years ago.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I'm a proud owner with a two thousand and two
vsecto me.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
It's it's different at every state and it's different at
every fertility place as well. So for us, we went
through Reprimed, which is a South Australian company, and that
was the first place we happened to go to and
the guy there happened to love cricket, be a part
of cricket, and I was just like, this is fate.
We're going to use this place.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Do you mean the guy that the sperm.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Said, So yeah, we went there and had really good
feels about it, and they said, look, I reprimented. You
have two options, and that's you ear Ago with local
South Australian sperm, or we're connected with California cry Bank
in America and being from Adelaide, everyone knows everyone, and
I don't really want to turn the corner and be
like that guy has the features that my daughter has.
(11:03):
And so we kind of thought Adelaide's probably a bit
too close to home. And it was only like ten
donors anyways, and Adelaide at the time, and they.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Probably went, and so we went being serious or not
in terms of ten donors.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
No, it was there was eleven. To be precise, there
was eleven donors, not much and also like it was
super different to California Crybank with limited details, no photos.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
They all had the same last name though.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
The same height was weird, and so yeah, we decided
to go with an American sperm and then it was just
a different world of it became a catalog, so it
was you literally sign it up to a subscription which
recommend pays for thank goodness, and you put in the
features you want and Bob drunkle and you just go
through it. And there is certain genetic testing that they've
got to have done to be available for Australia, but.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Like a filter, yeah, lowest time, high price, all the
same price.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
So they met at a diplomatic at least. But it
was mind blowing because it was a catalog and you
just shift through what you wanted and like we would
have had going from ten or eleven donors in Adelaide
to thousands of donors in America, so we kinda and
how we wanted to do it was so we did
reciprocal IVF, so Raley's my egg and we got donor
(12:25):
sperm and my wife Jess carried and so we wanted
features that were similar to Jess, and so we're trying
to choose like dirty blonde, hazel eyes, and like going
through that, it actually was quite quite a few of them.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
So how do you get it down to like ten?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
That was a hard part.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, I can't. It's like it's nice to have all
the options, yeah, but then it's kind of like I'm
looking with choice.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah, yeah, Well we're both in decisive humans that actually
did take. It was a long process, like I'm talking
about it, like this happened really quick. This was over,
of course, probably twelve months, and there were a few
donors that we wanted that were sold. So in America,
obviously you're paid to do it and it just goes
really quickly. So all they're like, good looking blokes are
going pretty quick, and so we'd put in and by
the time that time difference the email would get there,
(13:08):
they get back and be like really sorry, they're not
available or they haven't topped up, and you're like, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I must be disheartening for those guys. It's like, do
you need more than ten years?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
And I thought that same thing, because then you don't
want to be too polite in your life and just
to people because they haven't had any vials taken. But
it does tell you. So it's a max of twenty
families and they might say they've had eighteen out of
their twenty families done and then they're cut and so
you'd kind of know once that have been chosen more
(13:39):
than the others. So it does get a little bit sad.
But there was a few about I think our top
three because they'd done genetic testing, and so would we
we both like carried similar things, and so reprimand would
come back and say, like, there's a one in thirty
chance they might have this, so we'd l like you
to choose someone else. So there was our top probably
two or three. We didn't get through not being an sperm,
(14:00):
or they'd been cut off with their families, or the
next couple clash for something that I carried. So we
ended up choosing this guy and went with him. And
then I just remember like six Rileys about six months
old and eyes were still blistering blue, and I was like,
they're not changing. I was like, we chose like a
Hazel guy. I'm Hazel, you know. And then we realized
(14:21):
we've been thinking about the wrong donor for like the
last nine months, and we just like lost it laughing wise.
I was like, holy shit, we've been pepturing.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Sixty five.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
What his numbers right, So it's like zero, one, nine five,
and you're like, oh crap. We were thinking of this one.
And so we went on the profile and it was
like six months of thinking like Riley's eyes are going
to change, you know, And I was like oh, And
it was so funny. But also not and it was
(14:53):
it was the weirdest thing ever. And we ended up
choosing just by like health and stuff like similar features,
but health history was impeccable. So I was like, I'm
not sure how much this guy's lying, but he's pretty
much perfect and his famous perfect. So but it was
a world of information and like we could hear his
voice was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
What do they say? What's what's the pre recorded message?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
They will have like a sit down with the nurse
over there and they just have a casual conversation and
you don't have to listen to their voice, but we
chose to.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I thought it was like Tinder, you old grimy and
they got their little voice. They could sing a song
to you or something. You know. Have you seen that
so like on a prof on a dating profile, it's
got like you can leave a voice message. She was like, hey, baby,
welcome to Marhasure. It was just something like it's like, hey,
my eyes are really blue.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Do you remember that any any phrases in particular that
stood out.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
No, he had no phrases. He just sounded a bit
typically American, you know how they're just naturally that little
bit arrogant and.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Just like where's the camera, they take a photo.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
They're really prepped in what they're saying. And he tried
to sound really smart, which I think, like judging by
what he told us, he was educated with he was art,
but like he just seemed very confident in what he
was doing. And it was a bit outgoing. But I
guess that's all Americans. So we didn't listen to everyone's
voice that we were trying to choose, just because it
got a bit weird.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
But is there anyone he listened to and go?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
There was a couple that we listened to and I
don't know if it's a vibe or you don't like
their voice, which is a really mean thing. If there
was a big twang, probably would have. But it was
just an overwhelming amount of information and like it was
just so different to the South Australian process obviously if
(16:35):
we went through them. So we ended up going with that.
And they call it super Sperm because it's extremely successful apparently,
so that just tots the American lifestyle even more.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I guess, Wow, super sperm and your decision to use
your eggs with Jess, is that something that's quite common?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Not, it's probably becoming more common. It was a way
of like, I guess, as two mums, you feel a
bit like scared that you might not have the bond
with the child if you're not genetically related. And we thought,
if we were in the position to be able to
afford to do IVF, then we might as well do
reciprocal And.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Does it complicate things at all?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Well, in the end, they think that we might have
had Riley prematurely because of that with two foreign bodies.
I guess, with it being a foreign egg and foreign sperm,
but I was like, all sperm as foreign, so the one.
But yeah, they We've had friends that have gone through
reciprocal and had absolutely zero issues. So I just think
they don't really know why we had a premie and
(17:33):
just chuck the blame on that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
But can we talk about the premiere a little bit.
Obviously Jess is carrying. At what stage do you think
something is not right? I don't know, for a lack
of a better term.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Something red flags. Basically, it was at the twenty week mark,
which was quite small, but both Jess and I would
like small babies, so we weren't really concerned. And they're
like We're just going to monitor things a little bit more.
And then at the time twenty four week scan, which
we weren't supposed to have, but our obstetrician was like,
I just consent something, and so we had an extra
scan and she hadn't grown at all, and that all
(18:10):
the alarm bells went off.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
And they when was the last scan prior to that,
prior to the twenty week yeah, or so was it
twenty and then twenty four four weeks?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
No weeks no, basically zero and she went from being
in like the fiftieth percentile to the fifth.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
The next scan was under one percent for everything, and
all your red flags went up and they were like, look,
she's she's not getting the nutrients that we'd like her too.
You're going to have to be monitored. We could take
her out any day from now. So from the twenty
four week mark they told us to pack our bags
for the hospital and just be prepped to go in
any day. And at this point she was estimated like
three hundred and eighty grams or something like that, so
(18:48):
they were kind of also, you know, have some conversation
about she might not.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Make it, and I'm going to sound really stupid here,
But what's the ideal weight that you want to be hitting.
If she's only three hundred and eighty, oh at that.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Point, you want over at six hundred at least.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Holy shit.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
It was all like yeah, all the markers though, so
not just wait, Like everything was down and they said,
any day that we can scrape from twenty four weeks
is great, and we ended up almost getting to twenty
nine weeks, so we're pretty lucky in that regard.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But were you still playing at this point or do
you have time off?
Speaker 3 (19:21):
I was training. I don't think we had any tours,
but I was supposed to go on a tour against
India and didn't end up going on that because I
knew we were going to potentially have Riley in that time.
Like they said, there's basically zero chances you're getting into
thirty weeks, and they were right, so I kind of
knew plans were going to have to change a little bit.
But Jess was in and out of hospital in that time. Like,
(19:42):
we had so many scans like dopplers and grows scans
and everything in between, so it was just they were amazing,
Like we had an amazing obstetrician and great people to
go through. But this is also during COVID, so oh yeah,
so many extra loopholes to go through, and just a
lot of sass from some of them nurses and stuff
about you know, you're choosing to have a baby during
(20:03):
COVID time, so you can't really complain about this. So
that I'm a pretty aggressive human when I want to be,
and so there was a lot of times that we
also didn't call me back.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, I didn't speak this to drag on for as
long as it had so shut up.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, I was like, we're all out, and it's like, oh,
we're going to go back in.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I think the worst time was like when we were
actually in hospital and you had limited visitors and it
was only parents that were allowed, and so half the
time like just would go in earlier and I'd go
to training and come in later. And I'd go to
go in, They're like, no, the mum's already in, and
I'm like, I'm the other mum and they're like and
they like wouldn't believe me. They'd think that I'm trying
to sneak in and this kid, and so I'd have
(20:39):
to either go around to the other entrance and try
and get up the other way, go in a different
wing and do this. There was a few times that
they were like literally refusing to let me in because
they didn't believe that she had two mums. They thought
I was just someone else China.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
That's so narrow minded, Like especially in the year like
year was it twenty one, twenty one? I'm like, at
least don't just be like no, like scan the system.
I really want to visit this baby.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I'm just so really want to go into a ward
where I'm confronted with lots of small children.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, so did they do they know what the issue
was why Riley stopped growing.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I think Adventus called or something. It was the percenter
basically Biblical corps was at the bottom of the percenter
rather than the center of it, and so just wasn't
getting the flow of nutrients that she needed. And they
kept a close eye on that with lots of scans
and stuff. When we got steroids into jests and we
got admitted to hospital a couple of times with like
(21:34):
a D cell and a heart rate basically in Riley's
heart rate, and so they monitored her and a few
we had it once we got admitted and they were like,
you know, you'll stay in here till she's born. So
we're like wrapping her heads around that. And then two
days later like see you later. Actually she's all right,
and so we go home and then I reckon like
four days after that, we're back in hospital and they're like, okay,
for real, now you will stay.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Until what was that whiplash like of like it's going
to happen. No, it's not. It's going to happen now
it's not.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I mean, it took more of a toll than what
I thought what it did. I'm like, a I'm my dad,
like just hide emotions and think that everything is going
well and try and be the tough parent, the tough one.
And so Jess is quite an emotional human and a
bit more regulated probably, so I just pretend everything was
okay and would just be the calm one in the situation,
be like, well, just go with the flow is what
(22:19):
it is. We can't control it, which is also the truth.
But it was heavy with just trying to wrap our
heads around how we're going to live our lives, with
knowing we're going to have a premie, but not how
early or how healthy. And that was kind of the
hardest part, was like not even the in and out
of hospital, just like home life, like how were we going
to look after our fur children and work and friends
(22:41):
and everything else in between. Yeah, we're pretty lucky that
we had great nurses in there and a great obstetrician,
because I think, yeah, had they been lackluster, it would
have been really hard.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
So twenty eight weeks, how long does Bob have to
stay in hospital for?
Speaker 3 (22:55):
You're pretty much told till gestations, so like forty weeks.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Is the the normal long time, but.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Like if they have problems and they could be in
there obviously longer. And I mean, we were so lucky.
So so it's twenty eight weeks, six days it was.
I got a call. Our opposition came in the morning,
was like, everything's fine, go off, do your training whatever,
And so I finished training, hopped back in the car,
and I was going back to the hospital anyways, and
I get a call from Jess and she's like she
didn't say anything other than they're doing it right now.
(23:23):
And I was like what, and she's like, yeah, there
was an acceleration and a heart rate. They've decided everything
is not okay, and they're taking her out right now.
So I like raced back to the hospital, which is
luckily just across the road from Adelaide Oval, perfectly located,
and yeah, that's it. Like two hours later, bank Riley
was out and she was great, Like she let out
a little cry, which is not what's saying we expected
(23:45):
at twenty eight weeks, and was healthy, like her lungs
were great, and so she never needed to be an
a ventilator or oxygen.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Do they do a C section then or yep?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
And I looked up at the wrong time over she
shouldn't have done.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
But also, you know, it's not a pretty side.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
It was more confronting than what I thought. I was like, yeah,
I can see blood and gore, like I watched these
shows all the time, I'll be fine and then but
seeing it as Jess was so much less than what
I thought. So I had to hide trying not to
pass out.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
But you did better than some of us.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I didn't even get to that point before I passed out.
I only got to the epidural and I passed out.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I was parking the car and he passed out.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
My wife gave but my wife gave two c sections,
but the second one is one I fainted and she
gave birth. I was still on the ground. I was
like looking up, like you did, just stay there? So yeah,
it did better than me. But it's not pretty, is it.
I didn't even get to that bit when that happened.
I was already laying down, so it was.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Good, good, well, won't hurt and you're in the right place.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Was like, what are you looking after him for? Yeah,
it's pretty brutal.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
What's it like in that period than when is born?
But you have to go home empty handed.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, that's the hardest part. That when I struggled a
bit more with them, I thought I wouldn't. And it's
just such a trust in the process, in the people,
and you know that everyone who works at the hospital
was there to help people, and you just obviously have
nurses you like more than the others. But yeah, saying
goodbye of a nighttime was really really hard. And for
(25:25):
the first night because since she was so PREMI we
couldn't go to a private hospital. It had to be
public and so like I wasn't supposed to say the
night but the nurses pretended that they didn't know I
was there. And I slept on these cushions on the floor,
And so for the first couple of nights were okay
because Jess was still in recovering from the C section,
so I got to be in there a little more
than what others would have.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
It's really strange, isn't it. When you're like, it's the
miracle of life, but then in the blink of an eye,
you're like, sleeping on two cushions on the floor.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
This is what's happening.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
It was even weirder to watch like people be churned
out in less than twenty four hour, like to see
women that have gone in there at the same time
we did and be leaving in like twelve hours after
giving birth. Here's a human take it home. And you're like,
like that was more scary, Like, in some ways, I'm
kind of grateful that we got time at a hospital
to learn how to care for a baby. Like we
got so much nursing experience that other parents don't get
(26:17):
because they just shoved out with their children so quick.
So it was trying to be like grateful for the
extru experience that we got, because that was the more
confronting thing, is like, once we do take Riley home.
That's it. There's no nurse around the corner to tell
us what that cry means or you know what we
should be doing.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So how long was it before you got to take it? Right?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
She ended up taking home at what she would have
been thirty six weeks, So we got four weeks ahead
of schedule, which was bloody awesome. And she went home
on the NED program, which is basically like she's still
being fed through a nasal tube, but we could do
that at home. So obviously pass a few things to
tick that off. But yeah, we got home four weeks
ahead of what we thought. And then obviously we met
(26:56):
some families that were in there that were well past
their forty weeks, Like there was some implications lung terun
developed or so that some families have been in there
for six months, you know, and so we're like, holy
how we've really got a good end of the stick here.
And you took her home early, and she pretty much
once she hit two point four kilos, we could take
her home. So it was kind of just the waiting
(27:16):
game because again we got really lucky with she was
healthy and they called her an organized banana. I remember
just specifically that was like what they were her? After
like two days, I was like, what a weird thing
to say. So that always just come from I don't know.
He was a weird fellaw otologist. He was a wonderful man.
I love cricket and would like explain everything in cricket terms.
(27:38):
I'd be sitting down.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And beautiful cover drap, Well that's it.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
He's like, okay, you know, he's like, we're out the
power play now. He's like, the sweepers are out, and
he's like, we're just we're milk and the sweepers. We're
just hitting ones. He's like, it's boring cricket. It's the
waiting game. He's like, but you know, we're just ticking away,
getting the right sit there, and I'm like that's perfect.
And we'd leave and Jess and be like what the fuck?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, I have no.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Idea what he just said. And I'm like, okay, she's
doing well, all right, just to take out of that,
she's doing well. So he was. But yeah, early days
he caught her organized banana. I was like, what a
strange thing to call her. And then that just like
kind of stuck, and she knew what she was doing
and was just like he didn't take but he was
like he would like kind of wake her if he
wanted her attention, Like the first rule is to not
wake the baby, right, So I'm like, why you're waking
(28:26):
my baby? But he was wonderful, and yeah, she was
really good. Like we were only had a couple of
days that we kind of went backwards while we're in there,
So our actual experience in the hospital was smooth as
well as smooth as it could possibly get. But it
was just trying to juggle that with training was a
bit annoying, but still a decent position. I guess.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Going back and forth in the hospital and being in
that situation for any family, I can't I can't imagine
the toll it takes on you when you do finally
get home. How did you cope when you were home,
you were a family, you're back with, you have dogs, cats,
or you're all back together. How did you handle it?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Overwhelming? I reckon. We got maybe two hours of sleep
each night for the first like month. It was insane.
Riley's still a terrible sleeper, So that's great that one
didn't wear out. But yeah, we have a dog and
a cat, and those two just absolutely blanked Raley, like
didn't care about her existence whatsoever. So that was kind
of great because we were sad. We're like hoping they
would really bond, but they just didn't give a shit yet.
(29:24):
But it was mainly like scary because, like, as I said,
we're on our own now. We don't have a nurse
to just call up. Like we were probably over protective
because of her start to life, and like taking her
out for a walk, we'll probably you know, wait for
the perfect conditions rather than just going, no, we all
need to be outdoors, like we've been trapped inside, and
just we were probably a bit too sensitive to things,
and we were super rigid with following every rule ever
(29:48):
told about to be around newborns. And then obviously we
covid around like if anyone sneezed or something, we're like,
oh my god, we need to get out of here.
And it was just like it was a weird time,
but it was also really cool because we're finally home
in our own space. I didn't have really too much
cricket until Big Bash started, so I was home a lot,
(30:08):
and being able to adjust a home life was really nice.
It was just a little bit different than what we'd expected.
And again, if we have a second child, I think
we'd be a bit more laxed with that one.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I read somewhere and tell me if this is not
something you've spoken about openly before, but Jess went through
postnatal depression. Yeah, when did you realize that that was
something that you guys were going to start tackling.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Ah, we probably didn't address it as early as we
should have. I mean, the signs were there, but as
I said, I'm probably not the best with handling my
own emotions.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So when you say the signs for people out there
who may have no idea, what do you now know
in hindsight what those signs were?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Probably not connecting with Riley as much as like a
mother would, and then she would get the guilts about
not connecting with Riley, and so it was kind of
the double fold there. That was the main one, and
just being unhappy big a lot of the time and
not appreciating the small moments, I guess, And we'd have
our moments of joy, don't get me wrong, but I
guess the overall feel was probably sadness. And Riley was
(31:11):
a really tough baby, like she didn't sleep, witching, hour
was absolute hell, and you just get that anxiety would
come in like five minutes till six. You just bang
on and you just knew it was coming in the
last about an hour and a half months on end,
and you're like, this is horrible. And I think we
blamed a lot of it on Riley being hard rather
than realizing that it was actually more of a mental
side for Jess. So, I mean, I'm pretty good at
(31:33):
like keeping things light hearted and we're just try and
make things fun and probably brushed it off a little bit.
I guess when Jess was like, I'm not feeling well
and finally addressed it.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
It's tough when there's no sleep too, for any parent
an your parents like that early stage, like you just
the phrase witching hour makes my hand stand on end.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
And I'm like, oh makes me anxious.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Now, yeah, it's probably really hard to I mean, now
you look back and see the signs, but in the moment,
you're just too tired.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
You're just trying to function. You're just trying to get
by and look after that human and we probably like
didn't talk about our feelings a lot because we're just
too focused on Riley. And you do you forget about
your relationship and that takes time to I guess, become
the center of attention, I guess, and it never really
truly goes back to the same. But I think we
weren't probably communicating at all because we're just in, you know,
(32:23):
function mode of just tick off a box and try
and keep Riley safe and healthy. And then we're getting
by life. And then because things probably weren't getting better
with Riley for a long time, it was probably dragged
on a bit longer, and then we're like, we probably
need to address some things.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Did you did you seek help, like like together, Like
was there anything you did that really helped you sort
of overcome that?
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Jess started seeing a psych. I probably should have in hindsight. Again,
I just I would feel I would feelter everything into
sport and just take my mind off it by thanks
for training or just find a way to weasel sports
the way out of it, and eventually had my own
little mental break down, I guess, and finally started seeing
a psych. But Jess was good and eventually saw a
psych and that helped her immediately of just feeling like
(33:07):
you're a part of something and knowing you're not alone
and so many people feel like this that was the
most reassuring thing because every mother on social media obviously
mainly post the good stuff parents.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
The way you described the beginning early stages of Riley's life,
it's to a t it was with Lola.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Second, like it was just you could like identical.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
It was crazy and people probably think all they do
think in that moment, I must be the only one
dealing with this when like when someone like yourself or
like we've had other people open up about it, you
know on the podcast where they go, oh, hang on
a minute, other people are dealing with the same thing.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
So well, we all need to talk about the bad
times more. And I guess that's the relatable part good
plugin for you. But like, yeah, we all just post
obviously the happy photos and stuff that happened, all the
funny shot themselves photos.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
You know everything, we all laugh.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
But like the hard times of like Jess not getting
too much free time to just go get a coffee
by herself, or wanting to play her own music in
the car versus you know something for Riley, and like
the little things that I would take for granted with
my sport and being able to go away because I
would get the guilts of being away from Riley.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, what was your schedule like when you had to
start playing again.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Pretty much just went back to being away a lot,
like we're on a bad year. We're away, like physically
out of home, like six months of the year. And
then you think of trainings in between our own camps
for Australia, in between State Staff, Big Bash, everything that
comes into play. You're on the road a hell of
a lot. And so I tried to transition slowly back
in with Big Bash and not go to the first
(34:41):
couple away games that we had, but after that there
was kind of no control. Like at the end of
the day, you've got to go back to your job,
I guess, and that was hard. So I'd have the
guilts of like leaving Riley, leaving Jess with Riley, knowing
how anxious Raley was, and we're so blessed to have
Jess's parents down with us. But I'd come back and
then I'd kind of get angry just for not understanding
my gilts, knowing she's got a completely different lifestyle and
(35:03):
her like my things that I was guilty about, which
was being away, you know, being your own free time
is exactly what she needed, and so it probably took
a while for her to communicate what she needed to
feel better and for me to actually push for that
and go like, no, I'll take Riley for the next
two hours. If you just want to go sit on
the grass in the park down the road, you go
do it. And we probably took too long to get
(35:24):
to that of Jess actually saying this is what I need?
Can you can you help me? Versus I probably should
have been asking as well, like what do you need
to feel better for yourself? And we eventually got there.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
But it's easy at this point to look back and
it's so obvious. Sometimes I used to call it getting eggy,
and if I got too eggy, you just means I
was getting a bit shitty. And Laura would say, you
just need to go for a walk, like just go
for a walk for twenty minutes, or just go for
like a like half an hour run. Just get out
there and something as simple as that is what you need.
But in the moment, you don't think it's going to
(35:55):
make much.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
A different regulate as well as hope, which is like
being the blessing of having a is realizing that we
do not regulate as adults the way that we think
we do. So like it's been like that was a
huge learning curve. I even realizing what I need, like
what feels my bucket outside of cricket. I didn't really
realize what that was until Riley kind of came around
and just started playing soccer again, and so that kind
(36:16):
of was like an escape for her at least a
few nights a week and for games and stuff like that.
So it was like we slowly filled that cut back up,
but that took far longer than probably what it should
have if we just probably communicated a bit better. But
it was a learning curve for all of us in
realizing we probably didn't communicate as well as what we
thought we did pre Riley anyway, So it's been a
relationship curve as well.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Is this psych responsible for this or is this you
guys figuring it out over time?
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I think a bit of both. I think her psych
was great for her deep dark thoughts that I've not
even really asked her about, because that's for her to
share if she wants to. But I've got my own
sych that I see as well, And I think the
combo of us coming home and sharing bits and pieces
about like what we learned in that and then molding
it together was the big learning curve and going why
(37:03):
weren't we doing this beforehand? For one, but two also
just listening to each other more like and I mean
we all speak about love languages and we joke about,
you know, people matching because of them, but really actually
making sure that you are ticking those boxes off, because
I think the simple things of the love language is
really important when you've got another little human.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
To focus on. Yeah, it's really good at giving you
the tools for that because you might you might personally
be like, Okay, well I know what I need and
Jess might know what she needs, but how do we
communicate that properly? So and it's done properly so that
we can resolve a problem or feel each other's cup
or get back to the love language that you talk about.
(37:41):
So they're really good at giving tools. Yeah, it takes
a lot of time, though, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Do you think that you will ever carry I'm a
fifty to fifty I'm like, I was probably more inclined
to carry pre rightly, but now knowing everything that can
go wrong in apprecation.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
That's exactly how I feel, and like everyone will be like, yeah,
you're an ath, Like you might just not want to
ruin your body. I don't give a shit about that.
I don't care about ruining my body, like I'll fix
it back up. But like it's the fact that I'm
now educated on what can go wrong at any stage
through out of pregnancy. It's like when people get to,
you know, the fourteen week mark and then they post
about you know, they finally reveal like I'm out of danger.
I'll tell people I'm pregnant now, like you're never out
(38:18):
of danger, and like that freaks me the shit out.
And now that we've had that bad experience, and generally
when you have a premier, you're probably going to have
another premiere, is what you're told. And so it's kind
of like a scared the shit out of me. Like
I would say, I'm less likely to carry now that
we've we've had Riley, and if we ever decide on that,
like I'm happy to do it, I'll just be scared
(38:39):
the whole time.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
If you do it again, do you use the same
sperm that you use the first time?
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, so you got to make sure you buy in
bulk a bit of a costco shop. It was just
expensive as hell. So we're just lucky it was it
is you do buy and like you, I don't know
how long it's going to take.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
That.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
So our process was different with I got a heap
of eggs out, it was great, ragged about it. We've
got a heap of embryos, and then we got Riley
first go. So we're like, holy shit, this process is easy,
you know. And so there's technically eight embryos frozen eight minie.
Riley's still you know, waiting to come. But it's like
trying to have enough sperm. So like if he hasn't
(39:23):
topped up, and so we've now got I think two
vials left of sperm and that would be enough to
so we've just recently got Jess's eggs out and waste waste,
I shouldn't they waste used a vial and so he
hasn't topped up, and it's like, well he might never
and so he hasn't completely cut off his line, but
he hasn't topped up, which is a weird.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Thing to say.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Oh my god, it's just five more minutes. And so
you've got to kind of plan because you don't know
how long it's going to take, and so we just went, okay,
we'll buy five vials ship them over and yeah, so
he hasn't topped up. And then you've got to have
the convos of you know, if we used it all up,
would we use another We just go back to the
embryos that we have stored, knowing that we'll probably have
a premie baby again, and then how does it work
(40:07):
with my job having Riley and Jess be at the
hospital with a premi and so it just brings you
more conversations. But yeah, we'd look to use the same sperm.
Admittedly there's probably like one or two cycles of that left,
and after that it would just be a discussion of
what we want to do and if he's topped up,
but it doesn't look like he will.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
So when you said that in the clinic that you
went to in Adelaide, there's only eleven different men who
had given samples. Is it as simple as more men
need to donate or are is there red tape that's
stopping people from donating.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
It's a process in Australia, so obviously in America you
get paid, so there's incentive for people to do it.
But at the same time, apparently they go through sych
sessions to make sure they're not just, you know, abusing
the system. I don't quite believe that they're probably just
abusing system, but in Australia you do got to go
through sych sessions so that you're not the way she worded,
I remember the nurse was like, well, we don't want
(40:56):
a guy coming in being like I think I'm genetically superior.
I want to give like my genes rather than just
a genuine guy going. I want to help families who
are struggling to conceive.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
So wean out the psychopaths.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
The world with my own semen.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
But if it's a good looking lad, then you might
as well, that's a great dictator. But yeah, it was.
There is quite a few barriers. And again it's it's
different in every state and the regulation is different. And
I mean that Netflix Stocker came about that guy in
Sweden or wherever who had ended up fathering like a
thousand different kids because the regulations weren't the same in
(41:33):
every country and he thought he was superior. And so
it's like there's there's a lot of hoops you got
to jump through in Australia, but it is not enough
men donate. We're trying to push up numbers through some promos,
but it's a bit of a weird thing to advocate
for in some ways. He's a cut for everyone, cut
for everyone. If you donate, great, But someone.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Was listening and they're thinking, I like the idea of
enabling a family to start, and if I can help
in that process, great. Do they just reach out and
google the nearest clinic.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I'm assuming that would be the case. As I said,
it's different at every single clinic, so I'm sure there'd
be different processes to go through, but I think it'd
be as easy as googling and finding a local clinic
and calling them up and seeing where you start from there.
Because I imagine that you know, most blokes that are doing
it for free are doing it for the right causes,
So you'd like to think that there's a lot of
(42:24):
men out there that could do it.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Sorry, Ash not, you come on, I said, good, I've
done my thing.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
I've got kids. Shoot. I think parenting is incredible, it's amazing.
I love it. Wouldn't change your for ending in the world,
But at the same time, there's so many moments that
are so fucking hard and you're just in the depths
of trying to survive, and it's so nice to hear
someone talk about it so openly in the way that
(42:54):
you have.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
So thank you anytime. I mean, as I said, we
need to talk about these things more open harder than
what people do. But I could chat about parenting for
three different hours.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
So good a pleasure, Thanks much, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Well, thank god, Matthew. We wished her good luck in
the Ashes series because it seems to work.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Can we say credit for that? I'm taking I mean
we did wish a good luck Boca wincidents Australia then
wins the Ashes.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I mean, I have so little I need this.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
We should invoice them for that. Did we just become
coaches of the Australian Cricket.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Assistant coaches Captain coach, We're going to play.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Good luck for the rest of your career, Shooter. Oh,
we'll invoice for that as well.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
If you did enjoy that episode, please leave us a review,
five stars or a couple of nice words for us.
All for me, we'll pass on just a few.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Just I'm out of the jungle. You know I need it.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
You need it now, I need it.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
You know I've been been malnourished with a lack of comments,
and I would appreciate something. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Everyone jump into Matt and send him something nice.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
No, no, no, it has to be public. It has
to be public. If it's if it's private, doesn't count
when people when people message me and say, hey, the
podcast is great, I'm like, shut up and write that
on a pub Shut up and shut up and write
that on a pub.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
No wonder, you're not getting any good comments.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Shut up and write that on a public platform.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
You can also find us on social Let.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Me get up and write that on a public platform. Yeah,
just edit that one up. Let's good at it.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Also, you can do us on social media again. Man,
you've been out of the game for farts, Instagram, Facebook, whatever,
Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
We pay our respects to their elders past and present
and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and tourist at
older people's today
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com