July 27, 2025 • 63 mins
Hugo Toovey is a bloke who’s been through more than most of us could ever imagine and somehow still keeps moving forward.
An army man, two-time cancer survivor, and the founder of 25StayAlive (a movement urging young people to get checked before it’s too late), Hugo opens up about what life really looks like behind the scenes.
We get a glimpse into his world as a dad to 16-month-old Teddy while juggling surgeries, hospital visits, and all the quiet battles most people never see.
Hugo talks about what it’s like trying to start a family when nothing goes to plan, why early detection matters, and how fatherhood has shifted his perspective on, well… everything.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ash. Today's guest is Hugo tuv Now. He is a
bloke who's been through so much, more than most more
than most of us could imagine, and somehow he still
keeps pushing on.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
He's an army man, a two time cancer survivor, and
the founder of twenty five Stay Alive, which is a
movement getting young people to actually check themselves before it's
too late.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It's hard to wrap your head around what life would
be like for Hugo. He's a dad to a sixteen
month old, but he's also juggling surgeries, hospital visits, and
all the emotional weight that comes with battling cancer for
a second time.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
But in this chat, Hugo gives us a glimpse into
that world. He tells us what it's really like trying
to start a family when nothing goes to plan, the
quiet battles you don't see, and how becoming a dad
to little Teddy has changed everything for you.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Now, a little word of warning, this is a pretty
emotional chat. As you can imagine. There are a few
tears from my celloph and also from Hugo, so we
get some tissues ready. But it's a beautiful chat. So
I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Welcome back to three voting dads.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
I'm Mattie, Jay, I'm Ash, and I'm here and this.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Is a podcast all about parenting. I almost forgot then
we've had a week off. I was like, where do
we go from here? This is the podcast all about parenting.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
It is the good, it is the bad and the relatable.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
And you go, Ash and I rarely, if ever give advice.
We're not allowed. We're not about legal reasons we can't,
but loophole. There is no pressure on yourself to give
advice or you can not.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Yeah, we're pretty chill, no pressure, We're pretty chill.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
And we do like to start with our guests by
asking them one really simple question. Do you remember the
most trouble you got in as a kid?
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Yeah, I think I do. And I've got a twin brother,
Max and identical non identical, and I reckon it was
probably when we were fighting my brothers.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Do how old we were.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
I think we would have probably been about around like tennish,
like proper trouble. And this was a proper fight that
got out of hand, okay, and where you know, pushing
up against the walls, and then pushed him up against
the who was stronger. He probably was, which was a shade.
So are you taller now? I am got him? Yeah,
(02:36):
so much taller.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
It's a lot to admit that.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
No, for sure, I always hated it. And then all
of a sudden, like I'm talking year twelve, like bo
shot up. It was now like a head taller at him.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
So yeah, I would have been an athlete too.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
He played first, so that was my excuse. But this
got out of hand, this fight and pushed him out
against the window and it cracked and smashed, and you know,
we've had a couple of those fights. But I just
remember that, you know, the dad coming home furious, like
they're probably the biggest ones. There's twin brothers when you've
got a big punch ons. I just remember those, multiple
of those memories that just stand out from where you've
(03:13):
really got in.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Trouble, young testosterone.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Do you remember when the window cracked? Who was kind
of saying was at fault? Because it was like you
were antagonizing me?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
And you know, yeah, I think I was very much
on the it was Max's fault, get on the defense.
I think I was.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
He sounds like a nightmare.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
By the way, he always took it too far. Funny.
If he listens to this, he would just be sad,
that's bullshit, you guys. Too far. Probably the one that
actually just took things a little.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Who was the more authoritarian, your mum or your dad?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Mum? The dad was the one where it's like, you know,
he didn't have to do anything, just like the classic
you know, unbuckling the belts, one of those, but he
never did anything, but it was just you.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
He just had to go to them.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
You hear the buckle of the belt. I'm just sprinting to.
It was always just a classic. Mum would be like,
wait till Dad gets hot, and you're like, oh ship,
I really don't. Oh yeah, So that was kind of
how it was. But we still like, I don't know,
we got smacked and got the bloody in the mouth
or whatever in the mouth we're talking. If we swore
it was a hot mustard, it's just like, what's it called? Yeah,
(04:31):
So then Mum got done. That was probably the worst.
If we like, we're like, notice like if we were
deliberately swearing and we've been told okay, that's it, And
I think it was actually the hot mustard that would
come out mustard mustard, and it's just that the English
mustard is. I swear maybe being the army for for
fifteen years, but I swear so much and I'm like,
clearly it didn't work.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, I threatened my kids with soldo toast. Now that'll
really tear your mouth.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
We were trying to figure out whether the fact that
you joined the army was off the back of you
being quite naughty, or if you had a family of
people who were in the army. Which one was it?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
It was lack of direction, I think so the first one.
The first it's funny I had no family history of army,
but it was I did not want to do it, basically,
and I think my dad was worried I was going
to do the old gap year that turns into ten
years of gap years and just not really doing anything.
(05:32):
So the idea of joining the officer passway and you
get paid to study in Dad thought, geez, that would
be pretty good. You know, shave his head and that's
literally they weren't shaved head and discipline. It's like what
you see in the movies, marching all that sort of stuff.
So I think it was good for me because I
probably was a bit lack motivation, didn't have that real
life plan like my twin brother Max had. So I
(05:54):
think it was a great thing for me. And I'm
glad I did join up, to be honest, because did.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
You like it at the start? Were you thinking what
I did?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Actually now I thought I did. I liked the idea
of just getting out of home, getting thrown at the
deep end. I don't know. I just I was at
that stage in my life where I liked that doing
something different. But none of my other friends were doing.
They were just doing the safe you know, live with
them and dad, go to UNI, change degrees, all that
sort of stuff. Was for me. It was moved to
Canberra to live Jordan Army And was it an apprenticeship
(06:24):
you took on or it was like it's four years
of officer training or and then in the first three
you get a Bachelor of Business or engineering or si as.
I chose business. So you get paide of Studdy, which
is pretty good. You know, you get pretty fit, you
make good mates, you do some cool stuff in the army.
And I thought if I last two years, that'd be great.
Fifteen years later, granted as we'll talk about the fact,
(06:47):
you know, they've looked after me. It's helped a bit
just staying in longer. But at the start, I thought
this would be a bit of fun. Joined up for
a couple of years and see how I go.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And then how old were you?
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Eighteen?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeow, it's young, Hay, Like I I look at eighteen
year olds now as a thirty four and a half
year old man, and I'm.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Like, you're a child.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So then when you're in primary school and stuff, and
you saw an eighteen year old fucking look at the
size of this guy, a big man.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
The year twelve when you were yeah, eight nine ten
like men.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah, now I'm looking down, I'm like, what are you six?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
When I dropped Maley off at school, I'm wondering if
the kids look at me like I'm a geriatric.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Yeah, I'm like, here comes old Manny Jay.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You're you're in your twenties. Probably the last thing you're
thinking about is cancer. But what led to the moment
where you were first diagnosed with testicular cancer?
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Yeah, it's interesting you said family history of being the army.
You've never had a family history of cancer either, so wow,
when when you're younger and you people listening to this
have probably had, you know, whether it's parents or family
members or grandparents who have had cancer, you can't have
a bit of an understanding of what it is. You know,
chemo max, your hair fall out, you know, you look unwell,
(07:57):
all that sort of stuff. For me, I had none
of that, So I didn't have any idea of what
cancer was other than what you'd see on the movies.
And for me, I thought, I assumed that you had
to be really unwell because you had cancer. That makes sense, right,
And for me, I was final six months of four
years of military training, and I was probably the fittest
I'd been in my whole life, even fitter than I've
(08:20):
ever been. Like that was kind of the pinnacle of
I was twenty one. You know, peak fitness, healthy, you're
in your prime. I was going on on weekends. You know,
you've got all your mates, you're within camber, You're like, jeez,
six months time where Bloody graduated? How was this like?
Young lieutenants? And that was, I guess always made it
pretty hard. And that's when I just noticed that little
bloody frozen piece size a lump on my right.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
Nap.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Knew it was there. It was like this hard lump
that you know after the shower you have a feel
around and you just notice it and you go, hang on,
is that that's not normal?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Can I ask?
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It's like separate to your testicle or part of the testicle.
So like if you feel your testicles, you know, we
can do a little faun familiar or I feel around.
It's one of my favorite things to do. So you
shouldn't be noticing any hard lumps basically, Yeah, that's you
know if you do notice that and you're listening to
(09:14):
this well good signing your doctor. I knew it was there,
but because it didn't hurt, and because I was healthy
and feeling good, I didn't think much of it. And
I remember literally going on like doctor, google lump on
right testicle, and I'd see the lead. Yeah, I saw
things like cancer, but I've also see things like benine system.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Oh that's what it is.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
It always comes up with cancer. Whatever you put into Google.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Doctor, I've got a sore ear.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
It's like you laugh about the fact. They're like, oh,
this headache is going to be a true I got.
So when you saw cancer, you well.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
It's funny instead of going like geez, I better after doctor.
That made I kind of thought like, exactly like this,
I wouldn't be that yeah, yeah, because I feel feel healthy,
especially at twenty one and you're twenty one. I thought
cancers when you turn fifty, like when you're older. But
it wasn't. And this went on for months and months
and months, and just every time I got out of
the shower, because that's when you know, the fellas that
are hanging uice a while and you have it have
(10:07):
a real good feel, that's when they recommend it. And
I was just noticed every time, and I just still
put it off. And then it wasn't until I spoke
to my old man just one random morning, and I
hadn't told anyone of that stage. And as I said, Dad,
like it was kind of awkward thinking about when you
last spoke to your dad about your testicles. You probably
you probably haven't, right, that's something you do even though
you both got them, all glopes have them, but you
(10:29):
don't just think about saying like, Dad, can you have
a look at my testicle? Like it's a bit weird
On the phone, I was a bit awkward about it,
and he said, first thing he said was how long
has it been there? And I'm like, I don't know,
like at least six months, probably more. And he said,
if you go on to the doctor. I said no,
and then he's just like, why not. Don't be a bloody,
bloody idiot. Your god, And it was almost that was
(10:49):
the first time I'm like, hey, why do I go
after a doctor? And it was like that's the push
I needed, hearing your old man say, man, don't be
a dickhead, go to a doctor. And You're like, okay,
that makes sense. It's wandered off to the doctor and
basically had an ultrasound later that afternoon. Yeah, found out
it was it was testicular cancer.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
How long between you going to the doctor and having
that ultrasound and then then giving you a result.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Later that day?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (11:15):
To be honest, when they were doing the ultrasound, I
can never tell you the person doing it because they're
not the doctor. Yeah, but they do so much of it.
Even when she was doing it and I could see
on this screen and she's going over the lamp and
it's this black, big lump thing on the screen. I
could see her reader and I knew that I'm lying
there twenty on you old bloat like, so is that cool?
Like what does it all right? And she's like, oh,
(11:37):
the doctor talked to you about it. I could just see.
So even then I thought all shit, hang on, But
then they got the results and things like cancer that
obviously moved pretty quickly, and then they how.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Do they deliver the news? Is it just ripping off
a band aid and pretty direct?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Yeah, pretty much. So I went to the They got
me a meeting with the specialist and then he basically
just came out and said, mate, you've you've got test
particular cancer, but we don't know how aggressive it is
or you know, if it spread, then you have to
have a CT scam, which I then had to follow
up that literally that day as well. Got the result
(12:10):
for that the next day, and that was when I
found out the cancer had spread, which that was, I
guess the frustrating part of it, because you think the
ignorance of a young twenty one year old bloke me
just putting that off meant the cancer had time to spread.
And I knew that the next couple of years would
be a lot more significant as far as surgeries and
chemo and treatment, Whereas if I had just gone in
(12:31):
straight away and thought, oh, this isn't right, this shouldn't
be here. They would have removed the testicle, contained it
and said happy days.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And I would have lived a But I also want
to say, because that is a valid point, but there's
a lot of guys out there who wouldn't have gone
to the doctor until it was way too late.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Yeah, well, answer, I'm strong who became famous for not
so good reasons before all that. He did have testicular cancer.
He spreads because it spreads upwards. He spread to his Wow.
He in his book talks about he would literally spread
all through his lungs. He was coughing blood, his ball
got so big he couldn't even sit on his bike seats,
and he just dozed up on painkillers and it literally
(13:11):
spread to his brain and he didn't it took that
long as a professional athlete, because he didn't want to
impact his riding before he got got finally got checked
and they said, mate, like this is so fast spread,
like you're not going to make this. And he ended
up getting through it. But like that's just I think
it's that classic. I think blokes in general, a lot,
especially the older guys, but I find blokes in general
(13:31):
they don't. That's the fear of the unknown. I just
don't want to know. So it's kind of like I'm
going to brush it under the carpet and just hope
it just disappears because I'm just a bit I just
don't want anything bad to have.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Yeah, that happened with my dad last year and ended
up having a triple bypass.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Remember he just refused to admit that something was wrong,
and it could have been so minor, like a loss
of breath, like for you, a small a lump on
your testicle or a lump on your breast or something.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
And that's I think one positive from the experience and
the work I do now, as we'll talk about what
happened next, but is now, I'm just so passionate and
pretty strong with my mates and people I talked to
to go get checked, don't put things off, like it's
pretty simple messaging. But I get quite vocal about it now,
whether it's you know, my father in law recently with
one of those bow screening kits that he wasn't taking,
(14:17):
or if it's a made who keeps telling me about
these symptoms and I go you on to the doctor
or not yet, Like, mate, go to the bloody doctor.
It's made me just really passionate about that, and I think,
you know, I've had some really feel good stories since,
which is you know, saved lives. That's the way out.
Like if it wasn't for going through this, I wouldn't
have saved those about lives.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So it's such a great impact on other people.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Yeah, and that gives me to this day and I've
got another big up coming up.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
It always gives me a bit of that, yeah, bit
of that boost motivation.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So you're diagnosed with testicular cancer. What's the next step?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yeah, basically he said, mate, we've got to remove the
testicle you've I then had the CT scan found out
it spread. Is like then we've got to talk about
chemond surgeries and stuff like that. You know, that's the
next twelve months of your life's going to be just
click off, click pause, forget about your your army career.
For now you're going through you're going through going through
cancer treatment. But for before all that, he you know,
(15:11):
I was in Cameerra, twenty one year old bloke, a
lot to take in, right, didn't have my parents with
me just sitting in this quite a big office and
he just throwing this all at you, and you're like,
what the hell is going on? Just like digest so
he said, but before we go into that, he's like,
we got to have this surgery to remove the testicle
the next few days. Booked you in, but an important
(15:32):
question do you want a fake testicle? And I vividly
remember that. Sorry, I always remember this, and that's like,
as a young twenty one year old bloke, you've just
had told cancer spread through your body, and he goes, mate,
do you want a fake testicle? So here, I wasn't
thinking about the chemo, the you know, am I going
to live any of this? It's the hey on, do
I get a fake testicle on it? It's like all
(15:53):
that was going through my head and then I kind
of thought, I don't know, like is that the go like,
you know, what's the norm?
Speaker 5 (15:59):
Here? Get choice and what it looks.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
And he said, look, you're young twenty one. I was
single at the time, so he's a lot of young
guys find that. It just makes him feel a bit
more normal. You're in the chaining rooms, You're not this
weird loan range that that's hanging down.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I'm big on cemetery.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Yeah, I think exactly, So, you know, I think it
was up to me.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I think i'd have to go one.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Ash thought, why do I think it's wooden?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Well, I think ask the same question pre kids and
pre wife, and you're younger, would you get one? Is
an interesting one because.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I don't think I know you wouldn't and there's no
because I think I would whip it out a lot.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
I think if if I.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Don't know, yeah, you're you're a bit of al you
want to show, but you like you want an eyepatch
if you like.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, when I got to a sex toy, I went
to a gay bar and I had my nuts out
the whole nights.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
You have your Uni ball hanging free, and you think
that'll and I think that'd be hilarious. Yeah, so this
is why you need to then hear this part of
the story then, because a fake one can be just
as funny. And I said, I said, yep, let's do it.
Let's go go with the fake one. And he said great,
And I thought that was it. You know, I thought
they just do everything then and he goes no worries,
(17:16):
He goes to his desk and brings out this like
briefcase and he flips it open and he goes, right now, which.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
One do you want?
Speaker 4 (17:23):
And then yeah, about five machine. It's like shopping for
a catalog of fake nuts. And there's like five different
molds of fake testicles. And I'm sitting here and he's
oppositely the stair at it with a smile, and I'm
going through. I've got like two trelog This one had
a real nice bouncy texture. This is a silicon basis
feels good. That's a popular choice. It's important from the States.
(17:47):
And I'm like, really that, Yeah, it's really good. You
can tell you like proud of you've got fine, fine taste.
Will take one of those. So I locked in that one,
and I thought, okay, that's a bit weird. You have
one that lights up? Do you have one with like
edges on it? There?
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Yeah, he's got this scooter at the moment the wheels.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
I want one of those ones, which I wonder now
if they do, that'd be interesting. And then he said,
what size do you want? Huge? And I said the
biggest one he's got. It was quite small, to be honest,
but no, he I said, like you said, MADDI, you
like match it up bit of symmetries, and yeah, okay,
that makes sense. We'll get the medium sized happy days.
You know, I didn't think much of that, and then
(18:27):
I thought it was quite a weird process, right, And
then at the time I was a bit vulnerable, and
I just thought that's interesting. And I woke up and
I've got this weird fake nut down there, and he
came along and he goes and just walks here. I've
got my pants down, my dad's here, and he just
goes and gives it a big squeeze, and naturally I
couldn't really feel or it didn't hurt. But every bloke
goes like, but it didn't hurt. He's like, oh shit,
(18:51):
did that hurt. I'm like, no, but it should. He's good, Okay,
that's fine. You know. One second, it's all good, it
all went well. But now it's funny. Over the years,
it's this part of me and I've now got this
bit of an infamous drunken party.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
What is it go on?
Speaker 4 (19:08):
And it's it's called real or fake. I'm sure, I'm
sure you shoul put one and two together. And now
they explain the rules they love real fakes, so you
can't notice the difference from just visual. So often you
know it promotes good conversations. Now I get mates building
up a tally in how many times they guess the
real one on the fake one.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So what you do.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
You're going to turn around and you bring one out
real or fake and they go, no, that's definitely the
real one. And the way now I determine if it's not,
you get your iPhone light and you put your light
up against it. This is like beacon of light. It's
like this, I'll show you after this. It's like, so
you turn the lights off and it's just the big
lights now, and it's just it's what started out is
(19:51):
something that that's quite embarrassed about. I'm now proud of it.
And so many mates just love the fake nut.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I thought you were going to say that you get
people to feel them. No, it used to be a flip.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
So it used to be like I'd got this and
I'd be like, yeah, you're not going to fit your
full one, and I'd fit the fake one, like, oh bugger,
I said it was a real one. So it was
like people feel it, they're interested in it. It's like
this silicon based a weird little thing like it's It's
an interesting one because, like I said at the start,
I was so embarrassed to even tell my dad that
I had this nut on my testicle, whereas now like
I just love talking about testicles. I talk, I get
(20:25):
it out, you know. I've had mates who like have said, mate,
I've got this weird little vein thing down there, and
they've gone to doctors. I've had a friend of a
friend who was diagnosed with testicular cancer, but you got
it early. I've had multiple people around me that reach
out online saying I've heard you're real off fake, you're
got careful that you're not just walking on the street.
And I was like, hey, you go. Yeah, But it's
(20:47):
a weird feeling now that I've just I'm proud of
this part of me, you know, And it's what was
initially a really awkward thing that resulted from very unfortunate
circumstances has evolved and there's something I'm proud of. It's
creating conversations, it's saving lives, and it's important that you
have a bit of fun with it and you have
some humor with it, because otherwise blokes don't talk about
(21:09):
this stuff. By opening up, by playing real or fake,
by getting the lantern out. By having these chats, you
get these guys now who feel comfortable talking about their
body and changes and is this normal? Should this be
hanging this way?
Speaker 5 (21:21):
My nuts?
Speaker 4 (21:22):
This big is out. You know, it's important stuff, and
I think November do a great job with sim removes it.
And that's what I try and do with, you know,
whether it's a presentation of footy club or chatting to
someone who I can tell is you know, be uncomfortable
they want to tell me something. If you add a
bit of humor in, and you guys obviously do it
so well on this podcast. You can have the serious chats,
but then you throw some humor in, it makes people
(21:43):
just feel a bit more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
There's no better icebreaker than the lantern produces, Like, oh god,
I'm trying to understand the emotional whiplash that you've gone through,
because you know, we could easily sit here and talk
about your testicular cancer for the whole episode, but I'm
(22:09):
going to ruin the story here. You get through it,
you're in remission, you hit with cancer a second time,
and in such a short period when you're almost celebrating
one second the fact that you've beaten testicular cancer, to
then dealing with a second diagnosis. What is that like
from an emotional perspective.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Yeah, that and then that was really tough. The five
years went by and I had the chemo, that surgeries,
I went on surveillance, the three months check ups turned
into six months to twelve months, and you're kind of
ticking off the little milestones and my life resumed and
I got physically fit and I was healthy again, you know,
click resume of my army career. We got posted to
Brisbane and then I guess the icing on the cake
(22:49):
and for those who have experienced cancer is the five
year mark. So I remember getting the five year all
clear scan, which is a significant milestone. You literally, yeah,
you see your pologist who's been such a big part
of your life for like five years, you see him
for the last time and you kind of say like
thanks dark, like I'll probably never see you again, and
it's quite a significant time.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Do you remember the first emotion that popped up when
you were told you accounts freeter five years?
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Yeah, I think it was just that real happy moment.
It was like a sense of freedom that I had
an experienced in my adult life. And I remember I
was with amb and my wife in Brisbane and we
cracked open our favorite champagne and we just had this
celebration of just like we can now put that behind us,
and that like the anxiety and the fear of the
what if you know, what if it relapses, what if
(23:35):
it comes back? You know, once you hit that mark,
it's almost like you're the chance of relapse. It won't happen,
You're in complete remission. I just remember that, just that
real happy feeling like you can get on with Yeah,
you can kind of now don't live with the anxiety
of the unknowns. And it was it was quite significant
at that stage in our life. We were living in
a different city. You know, I got lined up for
(23:58):
deployment overseas, and.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
You were married at that point where I know we
went married.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
We'd been together for a number of years, but she
had kind of experienced a big part of that, and
she was just I was really happy that I was,
you know, no longer causing her you know, I guess, yeah,
the burden of when she is to go through it too,
And it was just a nice moment in my life,
and I just felt, Yeah, for the first time of
adult life, I felt that real sense of relief, the
(24:23):
weight off your shoulders, happiness, freedom.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
But when did that change?
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Well, and that's yeah, it was Unfortunately that was short lived,
and a couple of months went by, and like I said,
I got lined up for deployment overseas, which I'd always
wanted to do. You know, we were kind of living
a great life at that stage, and then all of
a sudden my bows started playing up. And I've always
had a bit of a dodgy gut, you know, like
a bit of ibs as a kid growing up. You know,
(24:49):
that wasn't uncommon. But for this was worse than my normal.
And I always say, my normal is different to yours,
ash difference to yours, Maddie, and it's important to recognize
what our normal is. And this went on for a
couple of weeks, and it was the urgent see like, oh,
go to the bathroom, like that just kind of came
on that that's not normal. It was the you know,
the diarrhea, the abdominal sort of pain. I just thought,
is it something I'm eating? This isn't right. This went
(25:10):
on for a couple of weeks, two months after I'd
just been given the five year all clip, full set scan,
no signs of cancer, your happy days. And then I
remember saying to Am, but like, no, I'm going to
head off to the doctor, which is something I didn't
do as a twenty five year old bloke. And went
off to the doctor and with my history my symptoms,
he recommended I had a colonoscopy. If either of you
(25:32):
lads had a no, we should definitely do that. Colonoscopies
are like they typically looked at when people are a
bit older, but like the younger people now if they've
got some issues with their gut. A lot of people
have Klonoskoy because it's the best way to put a
camera up your barm. You have a fifteen minute pound
app and you can have a look at what's going
on inside. And I had had a feel as a kid,
so I knew what it was about a bit of
a bower cleanse. It just completely pleased you out. I
(25:53):
remember literally waking up feeling a bit out of it.
You're having a little turkey sanger tasting great, you know,
you know, still dozed up from the anesthetic. And Terry,
my gasterontrologist, came over and he had this kind of
bit of a sort of somber look and he's like, mate,
he showed me a print out of the report and
he's like, you've got a couple of nasty polyps, which
for your age is not necessarily common. But I burnt
(26:15):
them off, sent them off for a bipsy. But let's
see you in two weeks. We'll discuss next steps on
why your bows are playing it. And then literally the
next day, I was your momy uniform, typing away at
my desk and I got a call from Terry's receptionist
and she she said, she go, Terry needs to see
the results are back. And I'm like, yeah, I'm beauty
se him in two weeks and she's like, no, no,
he needs to see you this afternoon. And you know,
(26:36):
when you're just in life, were you get those moments
where you have that sick feeling in your stomach, whether
it's I don't know your kids are well, or you're
waiting for something, like you just feel sick. I couldn't
have a sleep of water, and I just knew something
wasn't right. When you've got a specialist wanting to see you,
and I, you know, Amber, my wife's a nurse and
she just finished a shift at the hospital. Went to
the appointment together, and I was kind of cracking a
(26:57):
few jokes, like pretending I was fine, but I was
so scared because I just knew it wasn't going to
be good news. And then he called us into his
office and that's when he just he just said. He
turned his computer screen around and said, Amber, hug, I'm
sorry to say. You know, you've got bow cancer. And
it was completely different. A lot of people ask if
it was part of testicula, if it relapsed, it was
(27:18):
an entirely new cancer. So my testicular cancer was well
and truly in the past two months, after being on
top of the world, experiencing that happiness and freedom, we
just found ourselves back in the doctor's rooms being told
that I had Bower cancer. And I remember sort of
taking that in and I was it was almost a
bit of shock, and Amber had her knee on my
(27:38):
hand on my knee, and she was very silent, and
I just thought, here would go again. And he said
to me that it's an aggressive type of Bower cancer.
We got to act quick, I've already booked you in
for surgery. But he said, the only silverligning is the
testicular cancer saved your life. And it's the moment I'll
always remember, is that the fact that if it wasn't
(27:58):
for sicular cancer, learning the importance of early detection, that
little frozen pe sized lump, the cancer spreading through my body.
There is no way fast forward five years as a
young twenty six year old bloke. There is no way
I would have gone off to a doctor with my
bows playing up. But I was still living a pretty
normalish life and there is no way I would have
had that colonosk could be being in those ruins being
(28:20):
told I had had bow cancer. But I got it
early enough that it gave me a fighting chance, and
that's something that I guess I'm grateful for sitting here.
Bow cancer now kills more young Australians age twenty five
to forty four than any other cancer. It's now impacting
young people. They're putting lots of links to the diet
last style, but a lot of people get diagnosed when
(28:43):
they're stage four, and when bow cancer spreads beyond the
bow and you're stage four, survived five year survival rates
around that ten percent.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
What stage were you at when?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
So?
Speaker 4 (28:52):
I was early stage. It had just kind of started
going beyond the bow. But because I had this aggressive type,
it can sometimes be hard to treat. And that was
the issue that I've had, and to this day I
still have I'm cancer free, but as a result of
all the major surgeries, and I've had about ten or
so open abdominal surgeries, and I don't have a large bow,
(29:13):
I don't have a colon or a rectum. I missing
part of my small bower. I had a bag for
about six months. I've now got an internal jpouch where
they literally stretched down your small bower, create an internal pouch,
stitch you onto the anus area, and for a while
act to learn how to get the toilet again in
continents wearing adult diapers, and then you kind of you
learn to adjust and adapt. And then I went from
going twenty times a day to ten times. I got
(29:35):
under ten. Was doing pretty well, but unfortunately this sort
of last six to twelve months, I've really been struggling.
The pouch is not functioning. It's it's and they have
to go back now to a bag, and it's a
tough one because I'm cancer free, but to get to
that point, they've had to take pretty drastic measures. And
it's like the collateral damage from something like cancer isn't
(29:56):
often spoken about. So I often tell people like, you know,
I'm cancer free, and they go, that's amazing, which it is, yeah,
But then the quality of life I have and I
was just in hospital literally two days ago and had
a surgery last week. And the burden now that has
on Amber and our son, and it's something that we
constantly have been experiencing really since twenty thirteen to now.
(30:18):
So it's been twelve years, which is a long time
where I've had patches of good health, but for the
most part, it's been significant challenges. You get through it,
but it's tiring.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
When you are battling cancer. Maybe if you think about
when you got your diagnosis early on, what's it like
from an emotional perspective where it's almost like you just
finished this marathon. You get to the finish line, you
can celebrate, and then the moment you kind of have
a champagne in hand, you get to tap on the
shoulder and it's like you've got to run this marathon again.
(30:52):
Like when you're battling it second time. Is it pretty
consistent and that your mentality is just like, we're going
to beat this cancer. I can do this. And how
often does it then switch to being this is too hard,
I can't do this.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah, it's a really good point. And I think those
earlier years with Tessieler cancer, I was very much fatun
bullet proof. I'm a young lad. I'll be completely fine.
I think it's not till you get a bit older
and understand a bit more about life, in particular since
being a dad, and you realize there's more important things
than just you. That's really changed my outlook on my
(31:30):
current health challenges, and it's been mentally been quite difficult,
where you know, you're now not just burdening your wife,
You've now got a son that you want to be
there for. And then there's so many times that I
can't be there for him because I'm unwell, I'm in hospital,
or I'm facetiming him, or I'm really unwell, you know.
And I've had lots of mental health challenges and you
try and pick yourself up, but it's really hard sometimes
(31:51):
to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I want to just step back a little bit about
your wife and your son going through I mean, a
second stint of cancer after what you've already been through.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Where's your mind at was starting a family?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
It's a good point. So when I went before I
had chemo, even back when I was twenty one, they
are single kids were so far from my you know,
my thought process of having a family. But my cologist
said I needed to get frozen sperm because they sometimes
chemo and these these treatments can make you infertile. So
I remember, like literally back then, before I even had
(32:28):
a partner, I'm going in, you know, getting the frozen sperm,
putting that away. And I've had that ever since. With
the I guess the thought of I might need it
one day, and then I guess years later. You know,
I meet Amber. We've been together for now over ten years,
and when we had Teddy, our son who's now sixteen
(32:48):
months old. You know, we're at that stage in our
life of wanting to have a family, and we thought,
like a lot of naive you know, dads to be
think that you just happen like that. And I think
I thought, you know, a lot of my mates around
me who were having kids, you're here. I made as
soon as she used Buddy ovulating, it just happened. My
bloody and hell made that the first time we didn't
(33:09):
use a condom, we felt she felt pregnant. So I
thought that's how it was going to happen. Unfortunately, as
you know, you guys know, it doesn't often happen like that.
So for us, it took us a while. And so
the six months will go by and you'd get each
damas you know, the pregnancy test and he's all excited
and I'm can't saving it, you know, put them on
the bean and Sam's that's just try and not think
about it. Easier said than done. And then we were
(33:30):
told by many specialists and doctors just they said, look,
there's a chance that you might not be able to
conceive naturally, but you've got your frozen sperm. And almost
a year went by and we're going to go down
that passway to use the frozen sperm. And it was
one random warning where we weren't even trying to conceive
(33:51):
on the whole ovulation day. Let's go, you know, we
kind of put that behind us and we're heading back
to Adelaide and Ambe was heading back for her best
friend's hens and she thought, you know what, it's going
to be a big weekend. I'm just going to like, okay, yep,
do another pregnancy test. You get just so still. And
I'm upstairs getting ready or whatever. And it's like five
in the morning before I went to the airport. I
came downstairs and there was the pregnancy test in the
(34:11):
kitchen and I went to literally go put in the
bin and it had the line there, and I was like, man,
what's this line mean? Happen to be there? And then
she kind of ran out and she's like, I think
I'm pregnant. And we're just like holy shit, Like we
just weren't expecting it. Were mentally prepared for the IVF
pathway and going down that side of things, and here
it was were like is this right? And we're both
(34:33):
so like so upside with this big smile. Got to
the airport, she got the digital one that says pregnant,
and like, we couldn't contain ourselves. And fortunately, you know,
things went well, and you know, the weeks and months
progressed and then you know, we we've now got a
beautiful sun, which is which is amazing. And I was
actually just saying pre chat for pre podcast that there's
(34:56):
a chance with this big surgery off got coming up
to get the per and in stone and have to
go quite deep to my prostate area, and there's a
decent chance that they can get a few of the
prostrate nerves and it will make me infertile, which essentially
means you have dry orgasms, retrogate ejaculations, nothing comes out, essentially,
and you can't there's nothing they can do. It's just
(35:17):
a risk. And then so he my surgeon only recently
said so if you were thinking of wanting another one,
he said, like, I recommend that you, you know, you
try because you know things could happen. And then we
also know we've got the frozen spermers back up. And
unfortunately I haven't actually said and said, we haven't told
(35:39):
anyone this, but I know you guys, you've been very
open about it. We am. We did full pregnant recently
and it was just like how good this this is
meant to be the timeline. She was so happy and
she's been through a lot, but then she had a
miscarriage last week, which is not great, which when you're
going through this with the surgery coming up, yeah, quite quite.
(36:02):
Yet she was really emotional and I really felt for
her because he was like finding a bit of good
news for her. And now I feel like we've got
the pressure now going to the surgery that you you know,
she might not conceive before then, and I've seen how
much it's impacted her, and she's really going through so much.
And then you throw that on there, and you know,
(36:23):
we've tried to be upbeat with it, but you know,
once you go through those shitty days and you know,
being beating yourself up about it, ultimately our son, who's
healthy and he's amazing, he just gives us that that
boost and it's really helped Amber. And I really feel
for those people. And it's I know you've both spoken
(36:43):
about it, but I feel for those people who go
through that where they don't have a kid as like
a you know, the fallback of just that like comfort,
that safety blanket. We had that, but it just added
this extra layer.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Of like it's like a sledgeheet. It does.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Yeah, so that yeah, all the time, it was perfect
and you're finally getting like some good news because we've
just had so much bad news over the years, and
it's almost like we deserve that. And then you know,
unfortunately Ship then had this miscarriage and it.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Was just like again, it's just like bloody hell, like
really it's not it's not fair, like what you guys
have had to go through as a family, Like it's
unbelievable and it's more than like what I think I'll
ever have to deal with my lifetime. I'm just it's
(37:30):
it pisses me off that you have to you have
to go through all that.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Yeah, and it I do don't get me right, do
you have days where you really do get down the
dumps and you do get like I'm a pretty positive guy,
but you do get those times of even last week,
I'm back in hospital for a week and you know,
even now I've got this like drain in because I've
had this infection and that drained will be in like
four weeks, and I kind of had that anxiety again
(37:54):
of like shit, I'm back here next month for this
major major surgery.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Can I ask that? And with Teddy, obviously you want
to try and like you said, be upbeat and be
like no, I'm going to beat this. This is not
going to get me.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
But they're like, at what time do you start planning
about not being around for Teddy. Yeah, it's it's a
tough one. Things definitely change when you're a parent. Yeah,
actually thinking about this last night, I give him a bath.
(38:35):
There's a first time I've actually really thought about this,
and I haven't with Amber yet. But giving him a
bath wasn't I and he was just really happy and
smiling at me. And he doesn't know what's going on.
And then going into this major surgery, I think, ship,
how you know things don't work out or my health
(38:56):
doesn't go to plan the next six months, plus how's
AMBA going to raise him? And how I'm not going
to be.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
There for him.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
And it was the first time I had these thoughts
last night. It's a really tough one. But the thing
is he doesn't know what's going on, and I think
in a way that makes it easier because he doesn't
know that Dad's sick or dad's not feeling well. He
just wants Dad to give him a bath and read
him a book. And I think that joy is a
good distraction. But it's something that until very recently, I
(39:23):
haven't really thought about. And it's not till you have
a kid, your whole everything changes. Perspective, there's more to
life than you and for me it just I guess
in a way, it gives me the ultimate motivation to
get through it, to be there for him to recover
as best as I can. You know, even the decision
of having this big series is a major decision. But
(39:45):
I thought, you know what, I'm bloody good at changing
his nappies. I see a change another one. You know,
one thing that doesn't where you're worrying me is poo.
So you know, I thought, you know what, it's just
a bit of a life adjustment. It's another major surgery. Yes,
there are other unknowns. I've got such a small bow
now that there's only so much bow you can live with.
So there's always those risks if I keep having bow
obstructions or keep going back here and they have to
(40:06):
take more about there will come a time where it's
like jezuz, you can only live with so much bow.
So they're things that I just have to constantly think about.
And being the father's been the greatest thing I've ever experienced,
and he does so much for me at such a
young age, and he's so small, but he gives me
a boost that I can never get from anything else.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
There's something kids can give you that you can't get
from anything else exactly. And it's crazy to think that
at some point over the whether it's the little while
that he's been alive, that you've had to have those
thoughts of this kid could potentially grow up without me.
And I think about that with my son, and I'm like,
I couldn't imagine Oscar having to go through this life
(40:47):
without me. So it's incredible that you can put, you know,
bring yourself here and sit with us and spread such
a positive message about early detection and everything like that.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
So I just wanted to commend you.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
No, Look, I told you I was a crier. No,
I knew it would get me too, And look, that's okay.
You know I used to apologize like the natural thing.
When I used to cry, when during talks and when
I'm often talk about Teddy or what amb has done
for me, that'd be the real triggers. I used to
get quite emotional, and you know, the default was sorry.
(41:22):
But then I now kind of just embrace that I
never apologized for crime because it's obviously it means so
much to me, and I think it's important that guys
realize it's okay to have a cry and be vulnerable
and you know, give your dad a hug, give you
made a hug. And that's the sort of the role
model I want to be for Teddy. And I think
that's the other part of it, is the fact that
you know, whether it's you know, twelve months, five years,
(41:44):
ten years, fifty years, however long I've got left on
this this in this world, I want him to grow up,
you know, knowing these things. And I really want to
instill that in him, even though he's so young. These
are the messages in the world that I want him
to gra up in and so it kind of gives
me that real drive to do more of that. Yeah,
and yeah, he's the greatest gift. And I think without him,
(42:08):
you know, I'd been a lot worse place mentally, even
when I'm in hospital going through difficult time and you're
facetiming him and I know that he's there with my
wife Amber, but also you know, he's almost like her
little guardian angel. And she often said, like pre Teddy,
those times I'd be stuck in hospital or really ut well,
she was often by herself. And it's really difficult because
(42:32):
the carers or the loved ones that go through this.
You know, they still go to hospital, she looks after me,
you know, she's there and trying to boost my spirits.
But then when they leave, you know, they're still living
their life. You know they can't just that they're not
living in that little bubble like I am. And I
often say it can be a lot harder for those
cares and those support people because she's it's emotional for her,
(42:55):
and she would stay often, and she would leave hospital
see me in such a bad way, and she would
burst into tears. She then has to go home, has
to clean the house and you know, now cooked dinner
for our son, and then she's then got work and
you know she has to do all of that whilst
then caring for me, and then not having the support
from me when I'm not there. So's she probably probably
doesn't get the recognition or the you know, like the
(43:17):
holy shit, you do so much like she deserves. And
there are a few people that probably realize how much
she actually does. You know, a lot of her friends
or you know, even family probably don't really understand what
it's like for her to have to be in the
position she's in. Looking after me, being there for me,
recently having a miscarriage, herself, going through some really difficult
(43:38):
emotional times, herself being an amazing mum to Teddy, and
then trying to then live her life like it's a lot,
but it's something that I'm so grateful for, And I
just hope, you know, I say it to her, but
I just hope she knows how much I'm proud of her.
Speaker 5 (43:54):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
What's it like when you do have those moments where
you're in and you're like, I just want to be home.
I want to be with Annie, but I want to
be with Teddy and children are amazing. But at the
same time, you can have a situation where one second
it's pure bliss and you love it and there's no
better feeling than the love you get from being with
(44:16):
your child, But then at the same time, an hour later,
it can be the total end of the spectrum because
they're tired, they're grumpy, they're hungry. So then how do
you deal with the emotion of the moments where you're
trying to be a parent and you're getting frustrated, But
then you have the guilt of thinking, well, I shouldn't
be frustrated because I've got to make the most of it,
(44:36):
of every single second that I spend with my son.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Yeah, it's it's such a good point. I have those
moments and exactly what you've said where you're like, I
shouldn't be letting this get to me, but I am.
And I think any dad or parent has that, let
alone going through significant health challenges. But there are times
where like especially if I don't have the energy or
I'm not feeling that well and goes like Teddy, just
(44:58):
give me a bit of space, and you just kind
of then you kind of get it, like sho, I
shouldn't really be feeling that, and you kind of beat
yourself up.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
About the guilt from many frustrations as it eats you up.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
You do you feel that sense of guilt like I
don't want to bloody play with you right now, mate,
Like I'm just not feeling great. Can you just bloody
piss off and go understanding? And like that, that of
course happens, like it's you know, I'd be lying if
I said, you know, you know every second I have
with him the best bah blah, because it's just not true.
And I think it's important to talk about that that
(45:31):
even going through all this, you know, there are times
where you kind of you just need space from him.
He's just going to that age now of just being
that terror and he's quite an active, young, young lad,
and sometimes I just need a bit of that space
to say, mate, like I can't deal with this right now.
But that's okay too. I think it's early days with
(45:51):
the guilt. I probably didn't talk openly enough about it,
whereas now I'll talk openly to Amber and say, like, Amber,
I can't deal with this right now. I'm just I'm
not feeling well. Or if he comes into the hospital
like he's done recently. It's funny from when he was younger,
he would come in, he would line the bed with me.
He was the best. He was a little chiller. Then
nurses would come in.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Isn't he just a perfect little thing?
Speaker 4 (46:12):
He would just like me, crawling around and he could
be in there all day. Now he's like got a
five minute window basically like the other. The other that
last week, he goes into the toilet and the bathroom
he's quit the emergency buzzer in the hospital and the
nurse runs in, like, is everything okay? I'm yeah, I
look over and ten that sort of stuff now where
(46:36):
it's just like he comes in and it's that first
five minutes, ten minutes, whatever it is, it's so good
to see him and it's like it's the best thing ever.
And like when he opens the hospital and he sees
his dad in there, he sees big smile and he
runs in. Then he knows exactly who I am, and
you know, he walks down the hospital aisles and it's
really cute. But then after that period it gets a
little bit like you got to take him home. Yeah,
(46:58):
they run out, But even that's something we've identified for
this big up coming up. You know, Amber's mum is
going to be staying with us for a bit and
supporting Amber and supporting Teddy, which is amazing for me.
But it's the sort of thing. You know, they'll come in,
Teddy will have his five minutes running around terror yep,
give down a little cuddle, and then Amber's mum will
sort of take him home and then it just means
(47:20):
that Amber can then spend a couple of hours with me,
you know, without the worrying about Teddy, and she can
actually just be with me, which is so important for
her and then knowing that Amber's mum's then looking after him.
So we've kind of have to think about those things,
you know, all our foundly living live in Adelaide, so
we're just it'll be like a tag team rotation of
people just coming out and helping helping Amber out. And
(47:41):
it's it's true, they're not really there for me. It's
they're there for Amber and they're for Teddy, which then
makes me feel better.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
It's unbelievable hearing what other people have to go through,
and your story is so important for me as a
bit of a wake up call to just how lucky
I have it. Like this morning, for example, Laura was
out the door really early, and I was trying to
get both kids ready for daycaaren first day of school,
and it was tricky and I was getting frustrated. And
then at the same time, I'm sitting here as I
(48:08):
hear your story, going holy fuck. You know, it really
does put into perspective the minor inconveniences that I have
to deal with it in the morning with my kids,
there's nothing compared to what you're currently going through.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
It's a great point to reflect on. If people are
listening to this is that you're allowed to have those
times of I'm not enjoying this. This is a lot
like That's that's really healthy to have that, but it
is also a great opportunity to have those times where
you can reflect on it and if you can if
you can see that in the moment and go, you
(48:40):
know what, yes, this is a lot, but geez, I'm
pretty lucky that both my kids are healthy or my
health is pretty good. And that perspective piece is really important.
It's not to say you can't have those bad days,
but sometimes just sitting there and I still even have that,
you know, we just spoke about the what is I
wasn't here? You know, I've connected with these amazing people
(49:02):
who have had the really tragic stories and guys I
was kind of close with who have passed away from
things like cancer, and these single mums having it to
go through this, And that's what I often now think about.
When I can be present to Teddy and I can
bar him and play with him, and you know, whether
it's you're packing your kid's lunches for daycare or school,
(49:25):
I now start to appreciate those moments so much more.
And if I hadn't gone to what I've gone through,
I'm sure I wouldn't be appreciating those little things as
much as I do, Like the bark last night, the
reading the book, those little special moments which a lot
of dads, a lot of parents probably take for granted.
Speaker 5 (49:43):
Yeah, feeling that one look.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
Like I said, I'm not always you know, super positive
and like happy all the time, but they are moments,
those little gifts of when I'm healthy enough that I
can be with Teddy and be in that And if
I think about it, that's the real gift, because like often,
if you don't think about it, then you won't do it.
But if it comes into my mind to go, Jesus
(50:09):
is so nice that I'm here with him now, not
in hospital, you know what, I'm going to give be
another ten minutes. I'm going to read next a little
book and just enjoy that little special moment. And it's
such a small moment that can be such a boost
my mental health. And I think you don't have to
go through these significant health challenges to still have that
thought process. You know, you can have those moments so
when you feel yourself getting a little bit agitated or frustrated,
(50:31):
to just have that step back and go, you know what,
this is just part of it, and how bloody lucky
I am to have this little terror there because I
love him so much. And if we start thinking that
way more, I think it will make those moments a
little bit easier and they're still going to be there.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
Yeah, But it's funny.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
I like, yeah, I have the same obviously, the same thing,
like frustration for the little things, and you go, you're
at that moment, you're really just you can't see the
perspective in the moment because you're so caught up in
the frustration. But I know for me, like with days
that are really really bad, the thing that you know,
(51:07):
the kids that which bring on the frustration sometimes if
I will lay down and do books with them at
the end of the night and actually on a bad day,
it actually completely changes the whole day for me. And
I subconsciously do that because I'm like, I'm not feeling
my one hundred percent today mentally, I'm not all here.
Speaker 5 (51:23):
I'm feeling bit down in the dumbs.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
But like we said, there's something that they can give
you that nothing else can give you, even though they'll
put you in that really.
Speaker 5 (51:32):
Bad mood anyway, it's such a weird relationship.
Speaker 4 (51:35):
Do you notice yourself, you know, not feeling like that
every time, but do you notice that, like that, that
shift in how you're feeling, where you've kind of just
you know, sitting down with that book and you just
have this calmness or this It just almost everything else
that's happened before that moment, it's all gone.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
So I'll know I'm I'll know I've really had a
bad day mentally when I'll lay down on one of
their beds and they're both next to me, and I'll
have the book out, and then all of a sudden,
then I'll feel that perspective and go, Okay, well I
have this and some people don't. Yes, they've pissed me
off all day, but there's no one else who's going
to sit with me right now, and I could I
(52:12):
could tell them how exactly how I'm feeling, and they're
just going to give me a cuddle for it, And
that changes everything.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
When you pick up a book, oscars like, oh, Dad's
at a shockup.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
It's a really short book. I'm here for your but
that that is mindfulness, right, Like I think people sometimes
over complicate things and I don't do enough for my
mental health or you know, I don't bloody do anything
for my mindfulness, and don't bloody meditate or do hot yoga.
But even those moments of reflection in yourself and being
(52:47):
in that present moment and just not thinking about the
other things that's happened before then, or thinking too far
into what's going to happen tomorrow, you're in that present
moment like that is mindfulness. And that is a really
great thing that often people don't even know doing it
and they go, that's a really great tool to have.
But I think people people do that sort of stuff
and they just think like, oh, it's just.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
What I do.
Speaker 4 (53:08):
But that's a really important thing to do more of
than if you're in a situation where you find yourself
starting a spiral, if you're thinking of you know, well,
we've just gone through a miscarriage, I've got this upcoming
treatment which is really high risk, and you know, I
can't spend time with Teddy like I want to.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
If you are spiraling, how do you put yourself out
of the dumps?
Speaker 4 (53:29):
Yeah, and this it takes it takes a bit of practice,
Like it it takes time to get to a stage
where you can actually firstly acknowledge that it's happening. That's
that's the key. If you could acknowledge it's happening, You've
then got that choice in that moment to do something.
It's when you can't really notice it happening and it
just gets worse, worse than its spirals. So for me,
I've got a lot better at noticing when I can
(53:49):
feel the mood. I can feel the anger, the y
me this sucks, the frustration, and I can really feel
that coming the two things I do. Now I'm more
open with Amber about it. I used to just kind
of keep it to myself. Would go for our morning walk,
so we get the coffee, and like, I'd just be
in this just not a really pleasant mood, and I'd
often use my anger and what I was feeling. I'd
often take it out, you know, on her in ways
(54:12):
of where it was just me just being a bit
you know, I guess angry and short and just frustrated.
You know. It was never anything you know, physical or
anything like that. It was more just the that the
how I was my mood. And now I'm a lot
better at saying Amber, I'm just feeling this. I don't
know why. I'm just feeling this this vent, this built
(54:32):
up frustration with everything. I'm just over it all. I
don't want to have this surgery. I'm just And then
it's just even just talking to her about it does
so much. It's a simple thing like that. So now
I just talk to her, communicate and our big one
for us is trying to start the day off with
something that's really simple that can just distract me a
little bit. And for us, it's going for that morning
(54:53):
walk and just keeping the routine. Because even when you're
going through I've had a really bad night, I've got
up ten times throughout the night, a lot of pain.
You know, an analysis, You're sure you're up for a walk,
and I said, yeah, absolutely. We take our dogs. We
take Teddy in his little trick or his little Pram,
and we get little baby China, and the Bristol knows
your coffee order and she smiles at Teddy, and you
go to the park and you throw the ball around
(55:15):
for the dogs. In that fifteen minute little period, I've
just kind of escaped for a bit. It's just made
me feel a little bit better, a bit more calm.
And I get home and I'm just that little bit
better mood than I was before we went for that walk.
And it's such a simple thing, but for us that
really helps.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
It really is, And it's annoying because it's the things
you take for granted, you know, and it really it's
just like what keeps you going, going for a walk
and getting a coffee with my family?
Speaker 5 (55:42):
What's so minor.
Speaker 4 (55:43):
It has such a big impact, But it's not until
you go through. Like I said, I've recently been in
hospital about to go and again when you're there for
quite a long time. The things that I love most
in hospital is like the hot, hot shower for example,
Like majority of people that you guys have a shower
this morning and just stand there and just like enjoy
every second of that shower and just thought, this is
(56:04):
the best shower in the world. And you took an
extra five minutes in there because you're liking it so much,
and it's all you could think about was that shower.
Probably not like sometimes we do have those mornings and
it's a bit cold, and you do think for the
most part, we just kind of you have the shower,
you think about something in the shower that's annoying. You,
you get out, you have a shave or whatever, and
kids are doing something and you just let those little
moments just we have lots of little moments about the day.
(56:25):
They just escape us. But it's not until you're in
hospital and you're in a lot of discomfort, and the
one thing I look forward to in that morning where
I'm just sitting in the chair having that shower and
this like the warmth goes on me and I just
escape for that little period and I feel I'm paying free,
I'm warm, and often ambers like go on hard you've
been in there for a while. It's like I just
(56:53):
want more of that. But like it's like they're things
that everyone does daily, they take for granted, but it's
not often until you go through something or something's taken
away from you where you start to appreciate things more.
So for me, it's like, how can I still have that,
you know, that same level of thinking, that mindset when
I'm not in hospital, And I can start doing that
when I'm home and just doing more of those little
things because you do enough of them and they start
(57:15):
to add up and you realize, like, holy shit, this morning,
I had that beautiful shower. I did get the coffee
at the brist I was able to go for that
walk and didn't have too much discomfort or pain. Like already,
there are things most people rush through or they don't
really enjoy that, But rushing right through all that, you
rush remember any of it. So next time tomorrow morning,
I will when you're having a shower, feeling your balls,
(57:38):
any lumps or bumps, maybe while you're in there, just
having that reual that five minutes to yourself and going
how nice is this hot shower and you see the
steam go up and it's really nice, and just enjoying that.
Try that tomorrow and just see.
Speaker 5 (57:50):
That until it's the knock at the door.
Speaker 4 (57:53):
That's amazing.
Speaker 5 (57:54):
What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (57:55):
I know that so many people listening as well, off
the back of this conversation really going to appreciate the
really find a simple things in life for.
Speaker 5 (58:02):
Sure which they would have overlooked.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
And one question that we end on, Hugo, is one
that I'm going to throw at you right now, when
Teddy is all grown up and he's no longer living
at home, what would be the one thing that you
you want him to remember about the house that he
grew up in. I love that question.
Speaker 4 (58:20):
I want him to always look back at the house
that he grew up in and being where we are
now with just that love in the household and the
happiness and the laughter and that you know, playing with
his dogs or you know that the memories that we're
making now that seem pretty trivial. I want him to
look back at those times is you know, really enjoyable
(58:43):
times for him. And I want him to grow up
in that. You know, even now if I'm not there
for periods of time, to just wake up each day
and have a smile on his face and lots of
laughter and giggles, and we try to give that to him.
The dogs give that to him. But you know, there's
nothing better when you can just see him in such
a happy me And I want him to always remember that. Yes,
there are times in this stage of his life that
(59:04):
he probably can't remember, but there might be times that
he does remember. They're not so good, parts of Dad
not being there or Dad's in hospital, and you know,
instead of looking at as a negative, actually really focusing
for him looking back on a really memorable time for him. So, yeah,
the happiness, the laughter, That's what I want him to
always look.
Speaker 5 (59:21):
Back on HUGO.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I want to say thank you for coming on and
being brave and everything you do for mental health, being
an advocate, getting people to talk about it, getting people
to think about their health as.
Speaker 5 (59:33):
More than just mah.
Speaker 4 (59:35):
You know.
Speaker 5 (59:35):
So I want to thank you for spending some time
with us and making that cry. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (59:42):
I love what you do. It's such an important podcast
because you know, you have that humor. You know, you
have a really great way of communicating the things that
often we don't talk about as parents. And for me
being a little part of this, you know, hopefully people
listening can take something away from it. So I appreciate
you guys giving me the opportunity, especially with a lot
(01:00:03):
going on at the moment. It's even this chat's given
me a bit of a boost to think, how good
is that. You know, I was in hospital last week,
I'm sitting here chatting to you two guys, you know,
opening up, being vulnerable, having a bit of a laugh.
It means a lot to me too, So thanks lads,
you go.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
I mean every word when I say you are an
incredible human And I can't tell you how much I
appreciate your time this morning. I love chatting with you.
Your surgery coming up is when?
Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
So I'm not sure when this party will be released,
but nineteenth of August, in four weeks today from the recording,
is that the big op. So I don't know when
this will come out. I might be in hospital, but yeah,
I've got four weeks now to just try and get
myself in a pretty pretty good place.
Speaker 5 (01:00:43):
You'll wake up at matt Night were there with the mic.
Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
We're thinking of you and we'll definitely keep it a
listeners updated post surgery. So thanks again.
Speaker 6 (01:00:53):
Thanks what a man, Matthew, What a man, and what
a chat and.
Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
The great charity as well. Twenty five stay Alive dot
com is the website. Their mission is to make health
checks from twenty five a normal part of life through prevention,
early detection, and action.
Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
If you want to get involved or donate, we'll leave
the link in our show notes of the episode.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
There's some great undies that you can buy on the
website and a few hoodies as well. You might see
us wearing the hoodies. They're not yet available, but as
soon as they are we'll let you guys know.
Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review, subscribe,
join us. On social media, we're at Matt.
Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Two Doting Dads. There is a Facebook group, there is
an Instagram account, and there is also TikTok. Well said, hey,
there is there is the chance. Not right now, not
next week, but maybe the week after.
Speaker 5 (01:01:48):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Yes, Jess is.
Speaker 5 (01:01:49):
Looking at me going for God's sake, boys, let's let's
do it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Let's get it together doing long form video on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
We're working on it. It's not able just yet, but
it will be.
Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
We're working tirelessly.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
That just relentless.
Speaker 5 (01:02:06):
I know we are relentlessly working, just doing nothing. Can
you please keep the game?
Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
Okay, bye bye.
Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
Speaker 5 (01:02:27):
We pay our respects to their elders past and present
and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander
people's today
Ash. Today's guest is Hugo tuv Now. He is a
bloke who's been through so much, more than most more
than most of us could imagine, and somehow he still
keeps pushing on.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
He's an army man, a two time cancer survivor, and
the founder of twenty five Stay Alive, which is a
movement getting young people to actually check themselves before it's
too late.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It's hard to wrap your head around what life would
be like for Hugo. He's a dad to a sixteen
month old, but he's also juggling surgeries, hospital visits, and
all the emotional weight that comes with battling cancer for
a second time.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
But in this chat, Hugo gives us a glimpse into
that world. He tells us what it's really like trying
to start a family when nothing goes to plan, the
quiet battles you don't see, and how becoming a dad
to little Teddy has changed everything for you.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Now, a little word of warning, this is a pretty
emotional chat. As you can imagine. There are a few
tears from my celloph and also from Hugo, so we
get some tissues ready. But it's a beautiful chat. So
I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Welcome back to three voting dads.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
I'm Mattie, Jay, I'm Ash, and I'm here and this.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Is a podcast all about parenting. I almost forgot then
we've had a week off. I was like, where do
we go from here? This is the podcast all about parenting.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
It is the good, it is the bad and the relatable.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
And you go, Ash and I rarely, if ever give advice.
We're not allowed. We're not about legal reasons we can't,
but loophole. There is no pressure on yourself to give
advice or you can not.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Yeah, we're pretty chill, no pressure, We're pretty chill.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
And we do like to start with our guests by
asking them one really simple question. Do you remember the
most trouble you got in as a kid?
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Yeah, I think I do. And I've got a twin brother,
Max and identical non identical, and I reckon it was
probably when we were fighting my brothers.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Do how old we were.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
I think we would have probably been about around like tennish,
like proper trouble. And this was a proper fight that
got out of hand, okay, and where you know, pushing
up against the walls, and then pushed him up against
the who was stronger. He probably was, which was a shade.
So are you taller now? I am got him? Yeah,
(02:36):
so much taller.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
It's a lot to admit that.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
No, for sure, I always hated it. And then all
of a sudden, like I'm talking year twelve, like bo
shot up. It was now like a head taller at him.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
So yeah, I would have been an athlete too.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
He played first, so that was my excuse. But this
got out of hand, this fight and pushed him out
against the window and it cracked and smashed, and you know,
we've had a couple of those fights. But I just
remember that, you know, the dad coming home furious, like
they're probably the biggest ones. There's twin brothers when you've
got a big punch ons. I just remember those, multiple
of those memories that just stand out from where you've
(03:13):
really got in.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Trouble, young testosterone.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Do you remember when the window cracked? Who was kind
of saying was at fault? Because it was like you
were antagonizing me?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
And you know, yeah, I think I was very much
on the it was Max's fault, get on the defense.
I think I was.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
He sounds like a nightmare.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
By the way, he always took it too far. Funny.
If he listens to this, he would just be sad,
that's bullshit, you guys. Too far. Probably the one that
actually just took things a little.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Who was the more authoritarian, your mum or your dad?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Mum? The dad was the one where it's like, you know,
he didn't have to do anything, just like the classic
you know, unbuckling the belts, one of those, but he
never did anything, but it was just you.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
He just had to go to them.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
You hear the buckle of the belt. I'm just sprinting to.
It was always just a classic. Mum would be like,
wait till Dad gets hot, and you're like, oh ship,
I really don't. Oh yeah, So that was kind of
how it was. But we still like, I don't know,
we got smacked and got the bloody in the mouth
or whatever in the mouth we're talking. If we swore
it was a hot mustard, it's just like, what's it called? Yeah,
(04:31):
So then Mum got done. That was probably the worst.
If we like, we're like, notice like if we were
deliberately swearing and we've been told okay, that's it, And
I think it was actually the hot mustard that would
come out mustard mustard, and it's just that the English
mustard is. I swear maybe being the army for for
fifteen years, but I swear so much and I'm like,
clearly it didn't work.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, I threatened my kids with soldo toast. Now that'll
really tear your mouth.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
We were trying to figure out whether the fact that
you joined the army was off the back of you
being quite naughty, or if you had a family of
people who were in the army. Which one was it?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
It was lack of direction, I think so the first one.
The first it's funny I had no family history of army,
but it was I did not want to do it, basically,
and I think my dad was worried I was going
to do the old gap year that turns into ten
years of gap years and just not really doing anything.
(05:32):
So the idea of joining the officer passway and you
get paid to study in Dad thought, geez, that would
be pretty good. You know, shave his head and that's
literally they weren't shaved head and discipline. It's like what
you see in the movies, marching all that sort of stuff.
So I think it was good for me because I
probably was a bit lack motivation, didn't have that real
life plan like my twin brother Max had. So I
(05:54):
think it was a great thing for me. And I'm
glad I did join up, to be honest, because did.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
You like it at the start? Were you thinking what
I did?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Actually now I thought I did. I liked the idea
of just getting out of home, getting thrown at the
deep end. I don't know. I just I was at
that stage in my life where I liked that doing
something different. But none of my other friends were doing.
They were just doing the safe you know, live with
them and dad, go to UNI, change degrees, all that
sort of stuff. Was for me. It was moved to
Canberra to live Jordan Army And was it an apprenticeship
(06:24):
you took on or it was like it's four years
of officer training or and then in the first three
you get a Bachelor of Business or engineering or si as.
I chose business. So you get paide of Studdy, which
is pretty good. You know, you get pretty fit, you
make good mates, you do some cool stuff in the army.
And I thought if I last two years, that'd be great.
Fifteen years later, granted as we'll talk about the fact,
(06:47):
you know, they've looked after me. It's helped a bit
just staying in longer. But at the start, I thought
this would be a bit of fun. Joined up for
a couple of years and see how I go.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And then how old were you?
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Eighteen?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeow, it's young, Hay, Like I I look at eighteen
year olds now as a thirty four and a half
year old man, and I'm.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Like, you're a child.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So then when you're in primary school and stuff, and
you saw an eighteen year old fucking look at the
size of this guy, a big man.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
The year twelve when you were yeah, eight nine ten
like men.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah, now I'm looking down, I'm like, what are you six?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
When I dropped Maley off at school, I'm wondering if
the kids look at me like I'm a geriatric.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Yeah, I'm like, here comes old Manny Jay.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You're you're in your twenties. Probably the last thing you're
thinking about is cancer. But what led to the moment
where you were first diagnosed with testicular cancer?
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Yeah, it's interesting you said family history of being the army.
You've never had a family history of cancer either, so wow,
when when you're younger and you people listening to this
have probably had, you know, whether it's parents or family
members or grandparents who have had cancer, you can't have
a bit of an understanding of what it is. You know,
chemo max, your hair fall out, you know, you look unwell,
(07:57):
all that sort of stuff. For me, I had none
of that, So I didn't have any idea of what
cancer was other than what you'd see on the movies.
And for me, I thought, I assumed that you had
to be really unwell because you had cancer. That makes sense, right,
And for me, I was final six months of four
years of military training, and I was probably the fittest
I'd been in my whole life, even fitter than I've
(08:20):
ever been. Like that was kind of the pinnacle of
I was twenty one. You know, peak fitness, healthy, you're
in your prime. I was going on on weekends. You know,
you've got all your mates, you're within camber, You're like, jeez,
six months time where Bloody graduated? How was this like?
Young lieutenants? And that was, I guess always made it
pretty hard. And that's when I just noticed that little
bloody frozen piece size a lump on my right.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
Nap.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Knew it was there. It was like this hard lump
that you know after the shower you have a feel
around and you just notice it and you go, hang on,
is that that's not normal?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Can I ask?
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It's like separate to your testicle or part of the testicle.
So like if you feel your testicles, you know, we
can do a little faun familiar or I feel around.
It's one of my favorite things to do. So you
shouldn't be noticing any hard lumps basically, Yeah, that's you
know if you do notice that and you're listening to
(09:14):
this well good signing your doctor. I knew it was there,
but because it didn't hurt, and because I was healthy
and feeling good, I didn't think much of it. And
I remember literally going on like doctor, google lump on
right testicle, and I'd see the lead. Yeah, I saw
things like cancer, but I've also see things like benine system.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Oh that's what it is.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
It always comes up with cancer. Whatever you put into Google.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Doctor, I've got a sore ear.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
It's like you laugh about the fact. They're like, oh,
this headache is going to be a true I got.
So when you saw cancer, you well.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
It's funny instead of going like geez, I better after doctor.
That made I kind of thought like, exactly like this,
I wouldn't be that yeah, yeah, because I feel feel healthy,
especially at twenty one and you're twenty one. I thought
cancers when you turn fifty, like when you're older. But
it wasn't. And this went on for months and months
and months, and just every time I got out of
the shower, because that's when you know, the fellas that
are hanging uice a while and you have it have
(10:07):
a real good feel, that's when they recommend it. And
I was just noticed every time, and I just still
put it off. And then it wasn't until I spoke
to my old man just one random morning, and I
hadn't told anyone of that stage. And as I said, Dad,
like it was kind of awkward thinking about when you
last spoke to your dad about your testicles. You probably
you probably haven't, right, that's something you do even though
you both got them, all glopes have them, but you
(10:29):
don't just think about saying like, Dad, can you have
a look at my testicle? Like it's a bit weird
On the phone, I was a bit awkward about it,
and he said, first thing he said was how long
has it been there? And I'm like, I don't know,
like at least six months, probably more. And he said,
if you go on to the doctor. I said no,
and then he's just like, why not. Don't be a bloody,
bloody idiot. Your god, And it was almost that was
(10:49):
the first time I'm like, hey, why do I go
after a doctor? And it was like that's the push
I needed, hearing your old man say, man, don't be
a dickhead, go to a doctor. And You're like, okay,
that makes sense. It's wandered off to the doctor and
basically had an ultrasound later that afternoon. Yeah, found out
it was it was testicular cancer.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
How long between you going to the doctor and having
that ultrasound and then then giving you a result.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Later that day?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (11:15):
To be honest, when they were doing the ultrasound, I
can never tell you the person doing it because they're
not the doctor. Yeah, but they do so much of it.
Even when she was doing it and I could see
on this screen and she's going over the lamp and
it's this black, big lump thing on the screen. I
could see her reader and I knew that I'm lying
there twenty on you old bloat like, so is that cool?
Like what does it all right? And she's like, oh,
(11:37):
the doctor talked to you about it. I could just see.
So even then I thought all shit, hang on, But
then they got the results and things like cancer that
obviously moved pretty quickly, and then they how.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Do they deliver the news? Is it just ripping off
a band aid and pretty direct?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Yeah, pretty much. So I went to the They got
me a meeting with the specialist and then he basically
just came out and said, mate, you've you've got test
particular cancer, but we don't know how aggressive it is
or you know, if it spread, then you have to
have a CT scam, which I then had to follow
up that literally that day as well. Got the result
(12:10):
for that the next day, and that was when I
found out the cancer had spread, which that was, I
guess the frustrating part of it, because you think the
ignorance of a young twenty one year old bloke me
just putting that off meant the cancer had time to spread.
And I knew that the next couple of years would
be a lot more significant as far as surgeries and
chemo and treatment, Whereas if I had just gone in
(12:31):
straight away and thought, oh, this isn't right, this shouldn't
be here. They would have removed the testicle, contained it
and said happy days.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And I would have lived a But I also want
to say, because that is a valid point, but there's
a lot of guys out there who wouldn't have gone
to the doctor until it was way too late.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Yeah, well, answer, I'm strong who became famous for not
so good reasons before all that. He did have testicular cancer.
He spreads because it spreads upwards. He spread to his Wow.
He in his book talks about he would literally spread
all through his lungs. He was coughing blood, his ball
got so big he couldn't even sit on his bike seats,
and he just dozed up on painkillers and it literally
(13:11):
spread to his brain and he didn't it took that
long as a professional athlete, because he didn't want to
impact his riding before he got got finally got checked
and they said, mate, like this is so fast spread,
like you're not going to make this. And he ended
up getting through it. But like that's just I think
it's that classic. I think blokes in general, a lot,
especially the older guys, but I find blokes in general
(13:31):
they don't. That's the fear of the unknown. I just
don't want to know. So it's kind of like I'm
going to brush it under the carpet and just hope
it just disappears because I'm just a bit I just
don't want anything bad to have.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Yeah, that happened with my dad last year and ended
up having a triple bypass.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Remember he just refused to admit that something was wrong,
and it could have been so minor, like a loss
of breath, like for you, a small a lump on
your testicle or a lump on your breast or something.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
And that's I think one positive from the experience and
the work I do now, as we'll talk about what
happened next, but is now, I'm just so passionate and
pretty strong with my mates and people I talked to
to go get checked, don't put things off, like it's
pretty simple messaging. But I get quite vocal about it now,
whether it's you know, my father in law recently with
one of those bow screening kits that he wasn't taking,
(14:17):
or if it's a made who keeps telling me about
these symptoms and I go you on to the doctor
or not yet, Like, mate, go to the bloody doctor.
It's made me just really passionate about that, and I think,
you know, I've had some really feel good stories since,
which is you know, saved lives. That's the way out.
Like if it wasn't for going through this, I wouldn't
have saved those about lives.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So it's such a great impact on other people.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Yeah, and that gives me to this day and I've
got another big up coming up.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
It always gives me a bit of that, yeah, bit
of that boost motivation.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So you're diagnosed with testicular cancer. What's the next step?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yeah, basically he said, mate, we've got to remove the
testicle you've I then had the CT scan found out
it spread. Is like then we've got to talk about
chemond surgeries and stuff like that. You know, that's the
next twelve months of your life's going to be just
click off, click pause, forget about your your army career.
For now you're going through you're going through going through
cancer treatment. But for before all that, he you know,
(15:11):
I was in Cameerra, twenty one year old bloke, a
lot to take in, right, didn't have my parents with
me just sitting in this quite a big office and
he just throwing this all at you, and you're like,
what the hell is going on? Just like digest so
he said, but before we go into that, he's like,
we got to have this surgery to remove the testicle
the next few days. Booked you in, but an important
(15:32):
question do you want a fake testicle? And I vividly
remember that. Sorry, I always remember this, and that's like,
as a young twenty one year old bloke, you've just
had told cancer spread through your body, and he goes, mate,
do you want a fake testicle? So here, I wasn't
thinking about the chemo, the you know, am I going
to live any of this? It's the hey on, do
I get a fake testicle on it? It's like all
(15:53):
that was going through my head and then I kind
of thought, I don't know, like is that the go like,
you know, what's the norm?
Speaker 5 (15:59):
Here? Get choice and what it looks.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
And he said, look, you're young twenty one. I was
single at the time, so he's a lot of young
guys find that. It just makes him feel a bit
more normal. You're in the chaining rooms, You're not this
weird loan range that that's hanging down.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I'm big on cemetery.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Yeah, I think exactly, So, you know, I think it
was up to me.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I think i'd have to go one.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Ash thought, why do I think it's wooden?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Well, I think ask the same question pre kids and
pre wife, and you're younger, would you get one? Is
an interesting one because.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I don't think I know you wouldn't and there's no
because I think I would whip it out a lot.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
I think if if I.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Don't know, yeah, you're you're a bit of al you
want to show, but you like you want an eyepatch
if you like.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, when I got to a sex toy, I went
to a gay bar and I had my nuts out
the whole nights.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
You have your Uni ball hanging free, and you think
that'll and I think that'd be hilarious. Yeah, so this
is why you need to then hear this part of
the story then, because a fake one can be just
as funny. And I said, I said, yep, let's do it.
Let's go go with the fake one. And he said great,
And I thought that was it. You know, I thought
they just do everything then and he goes no worries,
(17:16):
He goes to his desk and brings out this like
briefcase and he flips it open and he goes, right now, which.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
One do you want?
Speaker 4 (17:23):
And then yeah, about five machine. It's like shopping for
a catalog of fake nuts. And there's like five different
molds of fake testicles. And I'm sitting here and he's
oppositely the stair at it with a smile, and I'm
going through. I've got like two trelog This one had
a real nice bouncy texture. This is a silicon basis
feels good. That's a popular choice. It's important from the States.
(17:47):
And I'm like, really that, Yeah, it's really good. You
can tell you like proud of you've got fine, fine taste.
Will take one of those. So I locked in that one,
and I thought, okay, that's a bit weird. You have
one that lights up? Do you have one with like
edges on it? There?
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Yeah, he's got this scooter at the moment the wheels.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
I want one of those ones, which I wonder now
if they do, that'd be interesting. And then he said,
what size do you want? Huge? And I said the
biggest one he's got. It was quite small, to be honest,
but no, he I said, like you said, MADDI, you
like match it up bit of symmetries, and yeah, okay,
that makes sense. We'll get the medium sized happy days.
You know, I didn't think much of that, and then
(18:27):
I thought it was quite a weird process, right, And
then at the time I was a bit vulnerable, and
I just thought that's interesting. And I woke up and
I've got this weird fake nut down there, and he
came along and he goes and just walks here. I've
got my pants down, my dad's here, and he just
goes and gives it a big squeeze, and naturally I
couldn't really feel or it didn't hurt. But every bloke
goes like, but it didn't hurt. He's like, oh shit,
(18:51):
did that hurt. I'm like, no, but it should. He's good, Okay,
that's fine. You know. One second, it's all good, it
all went well. But now it's funny. Over the years,
it's this part of me and I've now got this
bit of an infamous drunken party.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
What is it go on?
Speaker 4 (19:08):
And it's it's called real or fake. I'm sure, I'm
sure you shoul put one and two together. And now
they explain the rules they love real fakes, so you
can't notice the difference from just visual. So often you
know it promotes good conversations. Now I get mates building
up a tally in how many times they guess the
real one on the fake one.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So what you do.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
You're going to turn around and you bring one out
real or fake and they go, no, that's definitely the
real one. And the way now I determine if it's not,
you get your iPhone light and you put your light
up against it. This is like beacon of light. It's
like this, I'll show you after this. It's like, so
you turn the lights off and it's just the big
lights now, and it's just it's what started out is
(19:51):
something that that's quite embarrassed about. I'm now proud of it.
And so many mates just love the fake nut.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I thought you were going to say that you get
people to feel them. No, it used to be a flip.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
So it used to be like I'd got this and
I'd be like, yeah, you're not going to fit your
full one, and I'd fit the fake one, like, oh bugger,
I said it was a real one. So it was
like people feel it, they're interested in it. It's like
this silicon based a weird little thing like it's It's
an interesting one because, like I said at the start,
I was so embarrassed to even tell my dad that
I had this nut on my testicle, whereas now like
I just love talking about testicles. I talk, I get
(20:25):
it out, you know. I've had mates who like have said, mate,
I've got this weird little vein thing down there, and
they've gone to doctors. I've had a friend of a
friend who was diagnosed with testicular cancer, but you got
it early. I've had multiple people around me that reach
out online saying I've heard you're real off fake, you're
got careful that you're not just walking on the street.
And I was like, hey, you go. Yeah, But it's
(20:47):
a weird feeling now that I've just I'm proud of
this part of me, you know, And it's what was
initially a really awkward thing that resulted from very unfortunate
circumstances has evolved and there's something I'm proud of. It's
creating conversations, it's saving lives, and it's important that you
have a bit of fun with it and you have
some humor with it, because otherwise blokes don't talk about
(21:09):
this stuff. By opening up, by playing real or fake,
by getting the lantern out. By having these chats, you
get these guys now who feel comfortable talking about their
body and changes and is this normal? Should this be
hanging this way?
Speaker 5 (21:21):
My nuts?
Speaker 4 (21:22):
This big is out. You know, it's important stuff, and
I think November do a great job with sim removes it.
And that's what I try and do with, you know,
whether it's a presentation of footy club or chatting to
someone who I can tell is you know, be uncomfortable
they want to tell me something. If you add a
bit of humor in, and you guys obviously do it
so well on this podcast. You can have the serious chats,
but then you throw some humor in, it makes people
(21:43):
just feel a bit more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
There's no better icebreaker than the lantern produces, Like, oh god,
I'm trying to understand the emotional whiplash that you've gone through,
because you know, we could easily sit here and talk
about your testicular cancer for the whole episode, but I'm
(22:09):
going to ruin the story here. You get through it,
you're in remission, you hit with cancer a second time,
and in such a short period when you're almost celebrating
one second the fact that you've beaten testicular cancer, to
then dealing with a second diagnosis. What is that like
from an emotional perspective.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Yeah, that and then that was really tough. The five
years went by and I had the chemo, that surgeries,
I went on surveillance, the three months check ups turned
into six months to twelve months, and you're kind of
ticking off the little milestones and my life resumed and
I got physically fit and I was healthy again, you know,
click resume of my army career. We got posted to
Brisbane and then I guess the icing on the cake
(22:49):
and for those who have experienced cancer is the five
year mark. So I remember getting the five year all
clear scan, which is a significant milestone. You literally, yeah,
you see your pologist who's been such a big part
of your life for like five years, you see him
for the last time and you kind of say like
thanks dark, like I'll probably never see you again, and
it's quite a significant time.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Do you remember the first emotion that popped up when
you were told you accounts freeter five years?
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Yeah, I think it was just that real happy moment.
It was like a sense of freedom that I had
an experienced in my adult life. And I remember I
was with amb and my wife in Brisbane and we
cracked open our favorite champagne and we just had this
celebration of just like we can now put that behind us,
and that like the anxiety and the fear of the
what if you know, what if it relapses, what if
(23:35):
it comes back? You know, once you hit that mark,
it's almost like you're the chance of relapse. It won't happen,
You're in complete remission. I just remember that, just that
real happy feeling like you can get on with Yeah,
you can kind of now don't live with the anxiety
of the unknowns. And it was it was quite significant
at that stage in our life. We were living in
a different city. You know, I got lined up for
(23:58):
deployment overseas, and.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
You were married at that point where I know we
went married.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
We'd been together for a number of years, but she
had kind of experienced a big part of that, and
she was just I was really happy that I was,
you know, no longer causing her you know, I guess, yeah,
the burden of when she is to go through it too,
And it was just a nice moment in my life,
and I just felt, Yeah, for the first time of
adult life, I felt that real sense of relief, the
(24:23):
weight off your shoulders, happiness, freedom.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
But when did that change?
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Well, and that's yeah, it was Unfortunately that was short lived,
and a couple of months went by, and like I said,
I got lined up for deployment overseas, which I'd always
wanted to do. You know, we were kind of living
a great life at that stage, and then all of
a sudden my bows started playing up. And I've always
had a bit of a dodgy gut, you know, like
a bit of ibs as a kid growing up. You know,
(24:49):
that wasn't uncommon. But for this was worse than my normal.
And I always say, my normal is different to yours,
ash difference to yours, Maddie, and it's important to recognize
what our normal is. And this went on for a
couple of weeks, and it was the urgent see like, oh,
go to the bathroom, like that just kind of came
on that that's not normal. It was the you know,
the diarrhea, the abdominal sort of pain. I just thought,
is it something I'm eating? This isn't right. This went
(25:10):
on for a couple of weeks, two months after I'd
just been given the five year all clip, full set scan,
no signs of cancer, your happy days. And then I
remember saying to Am, but like, no, I'm going to
head off to the doctor, which is something I didn't
do as a twenty five year old bloke. And went
off to the doctor and with my history my symptoms,
he recommended I had a colonoscopy. If either of you
(25:32):
lads had a no, we should definitely do that. Colonoscopies
are like they typically looked at when people are a
bit older, but like the younger people now if they've
got some issues with their gut. A lot of people
have Klonoskoy because it's the best way to put a
camera up your barm. You have a fifteen minute pound
app and you can have a look at what's going
on inside. And I had had a feel as a kid,
so I knew what it was about a bit of
a bower cleanse. It just completely pleased you out. I
(25:53):
remember literally waking up feeling a bit out of it.
You're having a little turkey sanger tasting great, you know,
you know, still dozed up from the anesthetic. And Terry,
my gasterontrologist, came over and he had this kind of
bit of a sort of somber look and he's like, mate,
he showed me a print out of the report and
he's like, you've got a couple of nasty polyps, which
for your age is not necessarily common. But I burnt
(26:15):
them off, sent them off for a bipsy. But let's
see you in two weeks. We'll discuss next steps on
why your bows are playing it. And then literally the
next day, I was your momy uniform, typing away at
my desk and I got a call from Terry's receptionist
and she she said, she go, Terry needs to see
the results are back. And I'm like, yeah, I'm beauty
se him in two weeks and she's like, no, no,
he needs to see you this afternoon. And you know,
(26:36):
when you're just in life, were you get those moments
where you have that sick feeling in your stomach, whether
it's I don't know your kids are well, or you're
waiting for something, like you just feel sick. I couldn't
have a sleep of water, and I just knew something
wasn't right. When you've got a specialist wanting to see you,
and I, you know, Amber, my wife's a nurse and
she just finished a shift at the hospital. Went to
the appointment together, and I was kind of cracking a
(26:57):
few jokes, like pretending I was fine, but I was
so scared because I just knew it wasn't going to
be good news. And then he called us into his
office and that's when he just he just said. He
turned his computer screen around and said, Amber, hug, I'm
sorry to say. You know, you've got bow cancer. And
it was completely different. A lot of people ask if
it was part of testicula, if it relapsed, it was
(27:18):
an entirely new cancer. So my testicular cancer was well
and truly in the past two months, after being on
top of the world, experiencing that happiness and freedom, we
just found ourselves back in the doctor's rooms being told
that I had Bower cancer. And I remember sort of
taking that in and I was it was almost a
bit of shock, and Amber had her knee on my
(27:38):
hand on my knee, and she was very silent, and
I just thought, here would go again. And he said
to me that it's an aggressive type of Bower cancer.
We got to act quick, I've already booked you in
for surgery. But he said, the only silverligning is the
testicular cancer saved your life. And it's the moment I'll
always remember, is that the fact that if it wasn't
(27:58):
for sicular cancer, learning the importance of early detection, that
little frozen pe sized lump, the cancer spreading through my body.
There is no way fast forward five years as a
young twenty six year old bloke. There is no way
I would have gone off to a doctor with my
bows playing up. But I was still living a pretty
normalish life and there is no way I would have
had that colonosk could be being in those ruins being
(28:20):
told I had had bow cancer. But I got it
early enough that it gave me a fighting chance, and
that's something that I guess I'm grateful for sitting here.
Bow cancer now kills more young Australians age twenty five
to forty four than any other cancer. It's now impacting
young people. They're putting lots of links to the diet
last style, but a lot of people get diagnosed when
(28:43):
they're stage four, and when bow cancer spreads beyond the
bow and you're stage four, survived five year survival rates
around that ten percent.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
What stage were you at when?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
So?
Speaker 4 (28:52):
I was early stage. It had just kind of started
going beyond the bow. But because I had this aggressive type,
it can sometimes be hard to treat. And that was
the issue that I've had, and to this day I
still have I'm cancer free, but as a result of
all the major surgeries, and I've had about ten or
so open abdominal surgeries, and I don't have a large bow,
(29:13):
I don't have a colon or a rectum. I missing
part of my small bower. I had a bag for
about six months. I've now got an internal jpouch where
they literally stretched down your small bower, create an internal pouch,
stitch you onto the anus area, and for a while
act to learn how to get the toilet again in
continents wearing adult diapers, and then you kind of you
learn to adjust and adapt. And then I went from
going twenty times a day to ten times. I got
(29:35):
under ten. Was doing pretty well, but unfortunately this sort
of last six to twelve months, I've really been struggling.
The pouch is not functioning. It's it's and they have
to go back now to a bag, and it's a
tough one because I'm cancer free, but to get to
that point, they've had to take pretty drastic measures. And
it's like the collateral damage from something like cancer isn't
(29:56):
often spoken about. So I often tell people like, you know,
I'm cancer free, and they go, that's amazing, which it is, yeah,
But then the quality of life I have and I
was just in hospital literally two days ago and had
a surgery last week. And the burden now that has
on Amber and our son, and it's something that we
constantly have been experiencing really since twenty thirteen to now.
(30:18):
So it's been twelve years, which is a long time
where I've had patches of good health, but for the
most part, it's been significant challenges. You get through it,
but it's tiring.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
When you are battling cancer. Maybe if you think about
when you got your diagnosis early on, what's it like
from an emotional perspective where it's almost like you just
finished this marathon. You get to the finish line, you
can celebrate, and then the moment you kind of have
a champagne in hand, you get to tap on the
shoulder and it's like you've got to run this marathon again.
(30:52):
Like when you're battling it second time. Is it pretty
consistent and that your mentality is just like, we're going
to beat this cancer. I can do this. And how
often does it then switch to being this is too hard,
I can't do this.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah, it's a really good point. And I think those
earlier years with Tessieler cancer, I was very much fatun
bullet proof. I'm a young lad. I'll be completely fine.
I think it's not till you get a bit older
and understand a bit more about life, in particular since
being a dad, and you realize there's more important things
than just you. That's really changed my outlook on my
(31:30):
current health challenges, and it's been mentally been quite difficult,
where you know, you're now not just burdening your wife,
You've now got a son that you want to be
there for. And then there's so many times that I
can't be there for him because I'm unwell, I'm in hospital,
or I'm facetiming him, or I'm really unwell, you know.
And I've had lots of mental health challenges and you
try and pick yourself up, but it's really hard sometimes
(31:51):
to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I want to just step back a little bit about
your wife and your son going through I mean, a
second stint of cancer after what you've already been through.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Where's your mind at was starting a family?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
It's a good point. So when I went before I
had chemo, even back when I was twenty one, they
are single kids were so far from my you know,
my thought process of having a family. But my cologist
said I needed to get frozen sperm because they sometimes
chemo and these these treatments can make you infertile. So
I remember, like literally back then, before I even had
(32:28):
a partner, I'm going in, you know, getting the frozen sperm,
putting that away. And I've had that ever since. With
the I guess the thought of I might need it
one day, and then I guess years later. You know,
I meet Amber. We've been together for now over ten years,
and when we had Teddy, our son who's now sixteen
(32:48):
months old. You know, we're at that stage in our
life of wanting to have a family, and we thought,
like a lot of naive you know, dads to be
think that you just happen like that. And I think
I thought, you know, a lot of my mates around
me who were having kids, you're here. I made as
soon as she used Buddy ovulating, it just happened. My
bloody and hell made that the first time we didn't
(33:09):
use a condom, we felt she felt pregnant. So I
thought that's how it was going to happen. Unfortunately, as
you know, you guys know, it doesn't often happen like that.
So for us, it took us a while. And so
the six months will go by and you'd get each
damas you know, the pregnancy test and he's all excited
and I'm can't saving it, you know, put them on
the bean and Sam's that's just try and not think
about it. Easier said than done. And then we were
(33:30):
told by many specialists and doctors just they said, look,
there's a chance that you might not be able to
conceive naturally, but you've got your frozen sperm. And almost
a year went by and we're going to go down
that passway to use the frozen sperm. And it was
one random warning where we weren't even trying to conceive
(33:51):
on the whole ovulation day. Let's go, you know, we
kind of put that behind us and we're heading back
to Adelaide and Ambe was heading back for her best
friend's hens and she thought, you know what, it's going
to be a big weekend. I'm just going to like, okay, yep,
do another pregnancy test. You get just so still. And
I'm upstairs getting ready or whatever. And it's like five
in the morning before I went to the airport. I
came downstairs and there was the pregnancy test in the
(34:11):
kitchen and I went to literally go put in the
bin and it had the line there, and I was like, man,
what's this line mean? Happen to be there? And then
she kind of ran out and she's like, I think
I'm pregnant. And we're just like holy shit, Like we
just weren't expecting it. Were mentally prepared for the IVF
pathway and going down that side of things, and here
it was were like is this right? And we're both
(34:33):
so like so upside with this big smile. Got to
the airport, she got the digital one that says pregnant,
and like, we couldn't contain ourselves. And fortunately, you know,
things went well, and you know, the weeks and months
progressed and then you know, we we've now got a
beautiful sun, which is which is amazing. And I was
actually just saying pre chat for pre podcast that there's
(34:56):
a chance with this big surgery off got coming up
to get the per and in stone and have to
go quite deep to my prostate area, and there's a
decent chance that they can get a few of the
prostrate nerves and it will make me infertile, which essentially
means you have dry orgasms, retrogate ejaculations, nothing comes out, essentially,
and you can't there's nothing they can do. It's just
(35:17):
a risk. And then so he my surgeon only recently
said so if you were thinking of wanting another one,
he said, like, I recommend that you, you know, you
try because you know things could happen. And then we
also know we've got the frozen spermers back up. And
unfortunately I haven't actually said and said, we haven't told
(35:39):
anyone this, but I know you guys, you've been very
open about it. We am. We did full pregnant recently
and it was just like how good this this is
meant to be the timeline. She was so happy and
she's been through a lot, but then she had a
miscarriage last week, which is not great, which when you're
going through this with the surgery coming up, yeah, quite quite.
(36:02):
Yet she was really emotional and I really felt for
her because he was like finding a bit of good
news for her. And now I feel like we've got
the pressure now going to the surgery that you you know,
she might not conceive before then, and I've seen how
much it's impacted her, and she's really going through so much.
And then you throw that on there, and you know,
(36:23):
we've tried to be upbeat with it, but you know,
once you go through those shitty days and you know,
being beating yourself up about it, ultimately our son, who's
healthy and he's amazing, he just gives us that that
boost and it's really helped Amber. And I really feel
for those people. And it's I know you've both spoken
(36:43):
about it, but I feel for those people who go
through that where they don't have a kid as like
a you know, the fallback of just that like comfort,
that safety blanket. We had that, but it just added
this extra layer.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Of like it's like a sledgeheet. It does.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Yeah, so that yeah, all the time, it was perfect
and you're finally getting like some good news because we've
just had so much bad news over the years, and
it's almost like we deserve that. And then you know,
unfortunately Ship then had this miscarriage and it.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Was just like again, it's just like bloody hell, like
really it's not it's not fair, like what you guys
have had to go through as a family, Like it's
unbelievable and it's more than like what I think I'll
ever have to deal with my lifetime. I'm just it's
(37:30):
it pisses me off that you have to you have
to go through all that.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Yeah, and it I do don't get me right, do
you have days where you really do get down the
dumps and you do get like I'm a pretty positive guy,
but you do get those times of even last week,
I'm back in hospital for a week and you know,
even now I've got this like drain in because I've
had this infection and that drained will be in like
four weeks, and I kind of had that anxiety again
(37:54):
of like shit, I'm back here next month for this
major major surgery.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Can I ask that? And with Teddy, obviously you want
to try and like you said, be upbeat and be
like no, I'm going to beat this. This is not
going to get me.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
But they're like, at what time do you start planning
about not being around for Teddy. Yeah, it's it's a
tough one. Things definitely change when you're a parent. Yeah,
actually thinking about this last night, I give him a bath.
(38:35):
There's a first time I've actually really thought about this,
and I haven't with Amber yet. But giving him a
bath wasn't I and he was just really happy and
smiling at me. And he doesn't know what's going on.
And then going into this major surgery, I think, ship,
how you know things don't work out or my health
(38:56):
doesn't go to plan the next six months, plus how's
AMBA going to raise him? And how I'm not going
to be.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
There for him.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
And it was the first time I had these thoughts
last night. It's a really tough one. But the thing
is he doesn't know what's going on, and I think
in a way that makes it easier because he doesn't
know that Dad's sick or dad's not feeling well. He
just wants Dad to give him a bath and read
him a book. And I think that joy is a
good distraction. But it's something that until very recently, I
(39:23):
haven't really thought about. And it's not till you have
a kid, your whole everything changes. Perspective, there's more to
life than you and for me it just I guess
in a way, it gives me the ultimate motivation to
get through it, to be there for him to recover
as best as I can. You know, even the decision
of having this big series is a major decision. But
(39:45):
I thought, you know what, I'm bloody good at changing
his nappies. I see a change another one. You know,
one thing that doesn't where you're worrying me is poo.
So you know, I thought, you know what, it's just
a bit of a life adjustment. It's another major surgery. Yes,
there are other unknowns. I've got such a small bow
now that there's only so much bow you can live with.
So there's always those risks if I keep having bow
obstructions or keep going back here and they have to
(40:06):
take more about there will come a time where it's
like jezuz, you can only live with so much bow.
So they're things that I just have to constantly think about.
And being the father's been the greatest thing I've ever experienced,
and he does so much for me at such a
young age, and he's so small, but he gives me
a boost that I can never get from anything else.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
There's something kids can give you that you can't get
from anything else exactly. And it's crazy to think that
at some point over the whether it's the little while
that he's been alive, that you've had to have those
thoughts of this kid could potentially grow up without me.
And I think about that with my son, and I'm like,
I couldn't imagine Oscar having to go through this life
(40:47):
without me. So it's incredible that you can put, you know,
bring yourself here and sit with us and spread such
a positive message about early detection and everything like that.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
So I just wanted to commend you.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
No, Look, I told you I was a crier. No,
I knew it would get me too, And look, that's okay.
You know I used to apologize like the natural thing.
When I used to cry, when during talks and when
I'm often talk about Teddy or what amb has done
for me, that'd be the real triggers. I used to
get quite emotional, and you know, the default was sorry.
(41:22):
But then I now kind of just embrace that I
never apologized for crime because it's obviously it means so
much to me, and I think it's important that guys
realize it's okay to have a cry and be vulnerable
and you know, give your dad a hug, give you
made a hug. And that's the sort of the role
model I want to be for Teddy. And I think
that's the other part of it, is the fact that
you know, whether it's you know, twelve months, five years,
(41:44):
ten years, fifty years, however long I've got left on
this this in this world, I want him to grow up,
you know, knowing these things. And I really want to
instill that in him, even though he's so young. These
are the messages in the world that I want him
to gra up in and so it kind of gives
me that real drive to do more of that. Yeah,
and yeah, he's the greatest gift. And I think without him,
(42:08):
you know, I'd been a lot worse place mentally, even
when I'm in hospital going through difficult time and you're
facetiming him and I know that he's there with my
wife Amber, but also you know, he's almost like her
little guardian angel. And she often said, like pre Teddy,
those times I'd be stuck in hospital or really ut well,
she was often by herself. And it's really difficult because
(42:32):
the carers or the loved ones that go through this.
You know, they still go to hospital, she looks after me,
you know, she's there and trying to boost my spirits.
But then when they leave, you know, they're still living
their life. You know they can't just that they're not
living in that little bubble like I am. And I
often say it can be a lot harder for those
cares and those support people because she's it's emotional for her,
(42:55):
and she would stay often, and she would leave hospital
see me in such a bad way, and she would
burst into tears. She then has to go home, has
to clean the house and you know, now cooked dinner
for our son, and then she's then got work and
you know she has to do all of that whilst
then caring for me, and then not having the support
from me when I'm not there. So's she probably probably
doesn't get the recognition or the you know, like the
(43:17):
holy shit, you do so much like she deserves. And
there are a few people that probably realize how much
she actually does. You know, a lot of her friends
or you know, even family probably don't really understand what
it's like for her to have to be in the
position she's in. Looking after me, being there for me,
recently having a miscarriage, herself, going through some really difficult
(43:38):
emotional times, herself being an amazing mum to Teddy, and
then trying to then live her life like it's a lot,
but it's something that I'm so grateful for, And I
just hope, you know, I say it to her, but
I just hope she knows how much I'm proud of her.
Speaker 5 (43:54):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
What's it like when you do have those moments where
you're in and you're like, I just want to be home.
I want to be with Annie, but I want to
be with Teddy and children are amazing. But at the
same time, you can have a situation where one second
it's pure bliss and you love it and there's no
better feeling than the love you get from being with
(44:16):
your child, But then at the same time, an hour later,
it can be the total end of the spectrum because
they're tired, they're grumpy, they're hungry. So then how do
you deal with the emotion of the moments where you're
trying to be a parent and you're getting frustrated, But
then you have the guilt of thinking, well, I shouldn't
be frustrated because I've got to make the most of it,
(44:36):
of every single second that I spend with my son.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Yeah, it's it's such a good point. I have those
moments and exactly what you've said where you're like, I
shouldn't be letting this get to me, but I am.
And I think any dad or parent has that, let
alone going through significant health challenges. But there are times
where like especially if I don't have the energy or
I'm not feeling that well and goes like Teddy, just
(44:58):
give me a bit of space, and you just kind
of then you kind of get it, like sho, I
shouldn't really be feeling that, and you kind of beat
yourself up.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
About the guilt from many frustrations as it eats you up.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
You do you feel that sense of guilt like I
don't want to bloody play with you right now, mate,
Like I'm just not feeling great. Can you just bloody
piss off and go understanding? And like that, that of
course happens, like it's you know, I'd be lying if
I said, you know, you know every second I have
with him the best bah blah, because it's just not true.
And I think it's important to talk about that that
(45:31):
even going through all this, you know, there are times
where you kind of you just need space from him.
He's just going to that age now of just being
that terror and he's quite an active, young, young lad,
and sometimes I just need a bit of that space
to say, mate, like I can't deal with this right now.
But that's okay too. I think it's early days with
(45:51):
the guilt. I probably didn't talk openly enough about it,
whereas now I'll talk openly to Amber and say, like, Amber,
I can't deal with this right now. I'm just I'm
not feeling well. Or if he comes into the hospital
like he's done recently. It's funny from when he was younger,
he would come in, he would line the bed with me.
He was the best. He was a little chiller. Then
nurses would come in.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Isn't he just a perfect little thing?
Speaker 4 (46:12):
He would just like me, crawling around and he could
be in there all day. Now he's like got a
five minute window basically like the other. The other that
last week, he goes into the toilet and the bathroom
he's quit the emergency buzzer in the hospital and the
nurse runs in, like, is everything okay? I'm yeah, I
look over and ten that sort of stuff now where
(46:36):
it's just like he comes in and it's that first
five minutes, ten minutes, whatever it is, it's so good
to see him and it's like it's the best thing ever.
And like when he opens the hospital and he sees
his dad in there, he sees big smile and he
runs in. Then he knows exactly who I am, and
you know, he walks down the hospital aisles and it's
really cute. But then after that period it gets a
little bit like you got to take him home. Yeah,
(46:58):
they run out, But even that's something we've identified for
this big up coming up. You know, Amber's mum is
going to be staying with us for a bit and
supporting Amber and supporting Teddy, which is amazing for me.
But it's the sort of thing. You know, they'll come in,
Teddy will have his five minutes running around terror yep,
give down a little cuddle, and then Amber's mum will
sort of take him home and then it just means
(47:20):
that Amber can then spend a couple of hours with me,
you know, without the worrying about Teddy, and she can
actually just be with me, which is so important for
her and then knowing that Amber's mum's then looking after him.
So we've kind of have to think about those things,
you know, all our foundly living live in Adelaide, so
we're just it'll be like a tag team rotation of
people just coming out and helping helping Amber out. And
(47:41):
it's it's true, they're not really there for me. It's
they're there for Amber and they're for Teddy, which then
makes me feel better.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
It's unbelievable hearing what other people have to go through,
and your story is so important for me as a
bit of a wake up call to just how lucky
I have it. Like this morning, for example, Laura was
out the door really early, and I was trying to
get both kids ready for daycaaren first day of school,
and it was tricky and I was getting frustrated. And
then at the same time, I'm sitting here as I
(48:08):
hear your story, going holy fuck. You know, it really
does put into perspective the minor inconveniences that I have
to deal with it in the morning with my kids,
there's nothing compared to what you're currently going through.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
It's a great point to reflect on. If people are
listening to this is that you're allowed to have those
times of I'm not enjoying this. This is a lot
like That's that's really healthy to have that, but it
is also a great opportunity to have those times where
you can reflect on it and if you can if
you can see that in the moment and go, you
(48:40):
know what, yes, this is a lot, but geez, I'm
pretty lucky that both my kids are healthy or my
health is pretty good. And that perspective piece is really important.
It's not to say you can't have those bad days,
but sometimes just sitting there and I still even have that,
you know, we just spoke about the what is I
wasn't here? You know, I've connected with these amazing people
(49:02):
who have had the really tragic stories and guys I
was kind of close with who have passed away from
things like cancer, and these single mums having it to
go through this, And that's what I often now think about.
When I can be present to Teddy and I can
bar him and play with him, and you know, whether
it's you're packing your kid's lunches for daycare or school,
(49:25):
I now start to appreciate those moments so much more.
And if I hadn't gone to what I've gone through,
I'm sure I wouldn't be appreciating those little things as
much as I do, Like the bark last night, the
reading the book, those little special moments which a lot
of dads, a lot of parents probably take for granted.
Speaker 5 (49:43):
Yeah, feeling that one look.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
Like I said, I'm not always you know, super positive
and like happy all the time, but they are moments,
those little gifts of when I'm healthy enough that I
can be with Teddy and be in that And if
I think about it, that's the real gift, because like often,
if you don't think about it, then you won't do it.
But if it comes into my mind to go, Jesus
(50:09):
is so nice that I'm here with him now, not
in hospital, you know what, I'm going to give be
another ten minutes. I'm going to read next a little
book and just enjoy that little special moment. And it's
such a small moment that can be such a boost
my mental health. And I think you don't have to
go through these significant health challenges to still have that
thought process. You know, you can have those moments so
when you feel yourself getting a little bit agitated or frustrated,
(50:31):
to just have that step back and go, you know what,
this is just part of it, and how bloody lucky
I am to have this little terror there because I
love him so much. And if we start thinking that
way more, I think it will make those moments a
little bit easier and they're still going to be there.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
Yeah, But it's funny.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
I like, yeah, I have the same obviously, the same thing,
like frustration for the little things, and you go, you're
at that moment, you're really just you can't see the
perspective in the moment because you're so caught up in
the frustration. But I know for me, like with days
that are really really bad, the thing that you know,
(51:07):
the kids that which bring on the frustration sometimes if
I will lay down and do books with them at
the end of the night and actually on a bad day,
it actually completely changes the whole day for me. And
I subconsciously do that because I'm like, I'm not feeling
my one hundred percent today mentally, I'm not all here.
Speaker 5 (51:23):
I'm feeling bit down in the dumbs.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
But like we said, there's something that they can give
you that nothing else can give you, even though they'll
put you in that really.
Speaker 5 (51:32):
Bad mood anyway, it's such a weird relationship.
Speaker 4 (51:35):
Do you notice yourself, you know, not feeling like that
every time, but do you notice that, like that, that
shift in how you're feeling, where you've kind of just
you know, sitting down with that book and you just
have this calmness or this It just almost everything else
that's happened before that moment, it's all gone.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
So I'll know I'm I'll know I've really had a
bad day mentally when I'll lay down on one of
their beds and they're both next to me, and I'll
have the book out, and then all of a sudden,
then I'll feel that perspective and go, Okay, well I
have this and some people don't. Yes, they've pissed me
off all day, but there's no one else who's going
to sit with me right now, and I could I
(52:12):
could tell them how exactly how I'm feeling, and they're
just going to give me a cuddle for it, And
that changes everything.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
When you pick up a book, oscars like, oh, Dad's
at a shockup.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
It's a really short book. I'm here for your but
that that is mindfulness, right, Like I think people sometimes
over complicate things and I don't do enough for my
mental health or you know, I don't bloody do anything
for my mindfulness, and don't bloody meditate or do hot yoga.
But even those moments of reflection in yourself and being
(52:47):
in that present moment and just not thinking about the
other things that's happened before then, or thinking too far
into what's going to happen tomorrow, you're in that present
moment like that is mindfulness. And that is a really
great thing that often people don't even know doing it
and they go, that's a really great tool to have.
But I think people people do that sort of stuff
and they just think like, oh, it's just.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
What I do.
Speaker 4 (53:08):
But that's a really important thing to do more of
than if you're in a situation where you find yourself
starting a spiral, if you're thinking of you know, well,
we've just gone through a miscarriage, I've got this upcoming
treatment which is really high risk, and you know, I
can't spend time with Teddy like I want to.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
If you are spiraling, how do you put yourself out
of the dumps?
Speaker 4 (53:29):
Yeah, and this it takes it takes a bit of practice,
Like it it takes time to get to a stage
where you can actually firstly acknowledge that it's happening. That's
that's the key. If you could acknowledge it's happening, You've
then got that choice in that moment to do something.
It's when you can't really notice it happening and it
just gets worse, worse than its spirals. So for me,
I've got a lot better at noticing when I can
(53:49):
feel the mood. I can feel the anger, the y
me this sucks, the frustration, and I can really feel
that coming the two things I do. Now I'm more
open with Amber about it. I used to just kind
of keep it to myself. Would go for our morning walk,
so we get the coffee, and like, I'd just be
in this just not a really pleasant mood, and I'd
often use my anger and what I was feeling. I'd
often take it out, you know, on her in ways
(54:12):
of where it was just me just being a bit
you know, I guess angry and short and just frustrated.
You know. It was never anything you know, physical or
anything like that. It was more just the that the
how I was my mood. And now I'm a lot
better at saying Amber, I'm just feeling this. I don't
know why. I'm just feeling this this vent, this built
(54:32):
up frustration with everything. I'm just over it all. I
don't want to have this surgery. I'm just And then
it's just even just talking to her about it does
so much. It's a simple thing like that. So now
I just talk to her, communicate and our big one
for us is trying to start the day off with
something that's really simple that can just distract me a
little bit. And for us, it's going for that morning
(54:53):
walk and just keeping the routine. Because even when you're
going through I've had a really bad night, I've got
up ten times throughout the night, a lot of pain.
You know, an analysis, You're sure you're up for a walk,
and I said, yeah, absolutely. We take our dogs. We
take Teddy in his little trick or his little Pram,
and we get little baby China, and the Bristol knows
your coffee order and she smiles at Teddy, and you
go to the park and you throw the ball around
(55:15):
for the dogs. In that fifteen minute little period, I've
just kind of escaped for a bit. It's just made
me feel a little bit better, a bit more calm.
And I get home and I'm just that little bit
better mood than I was before we went for that walk.
And it's such a simple thing, but for us that
really helps.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
It really is, And it's annoying because it's the things
you take for granted, you know, and it really it's
just like what keeps you going, going for a walk
and getting a coffee with my family?
Speaker 5 (55:42):
What's so minor.
Speaker 4 (55:43):
It has such a big impact, But it's not until
you go through. Like I said, I've recently been in
hospital about to go and again when you're there for
quite a long time. The things that I love most
in hospital is like the hot, hot shower for example,
Like majority of people that you guys have a shower
this morning and just stand there and just like enjoy
every second of that shower and just thought, this is
(56:04):
the best shower in the world. And you took an
extra five minutes in there because you're liking it so much,
and it's all you could think about was that shower.
Probably not like sometimes we do have those mornings and
it's a bit cold, and you do think for the
most part, we just kind of you have the shower,
you think about something in the shower that's annoying. You,
you get out, you have a shave or whatever, and
kids are doing something and you just let those little
moments just we have lots of little moments about the day.
(56:25):
They just escape us. But it's not until you're in
hospital and you're in a lot of discomfort, and the
one thing I look forward to in that morning where
I'm just sitting in the chair having that shower and
this like the warmth goes on me and I just
escape for that little period and I feel I'm paying free,
I'm warm, and often ambers like go on hard you've
been in there for a while. It's like I just
(56:53):
want more of that. But like it's like they're things
that everyone does daily, they take for granted, but it's
not often until you go through something or something's taken
away from you where you start to appreciate things more.
So for me, it's like, how can I still have that,
you know, that same level of thinking, that mindset when
I'm not in hospital, And I can start doing that
when I'm home and just doing more of those little
things because you do enough of them and they start
(57:15):
to add up and you realize, like, holy shit, this morning,
I had that beautiful shower. I did get the coffee
at the brist I was able to go for that
walk and didn't have too much discomfort or pain. Like already,
there are things most people rush through or they don't
really enjoy that, But rushing right through all that, you
rush remember any of it. So next time tomorrow morning,
I will when you're having a shower, feeling your balls,
(57:38):
any lumps or bumps, maybe while you're in there, just
having that reual that five minutes to yourself and going
how nice is this hot shower and you see the
steam go up and it's really nice, and just enjoying that.
Try that tomorrow and just see.
Speaker 5 (57:50):
That until it's the knock at the door.
Speaker 4 (57:53):
That's amazing.
Speaker 5 (57:54):
What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (57:55):
I know that so many people listening as well, off
the back of this conversation really going to appreciate the
really find a simple things in life for.
Speaker 5 (58:02):
Sure which they would have overlooked.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
And one question that we end on, Hugo, is one
that I'm going to throw at you right now, when
Teddy is all grown up and he's no longer living
at home, what would be the one thing that you
you want him to remember about the house that he
grew up in. I love that question.
Speaker 4 (58:20):
I want him to always look back at the house
that he grew up in and being where we are
now with just that love in the household and the
happiness and the laughter and that you know, playing with
his dogs or you know that the memories that we're
making now that seem pretty trivial. I want him to
look back at those times is you know, really enjoyable
(58:43):
times for him. And I want him to grow up
in that. You know, even now if I'm not there
for periods of time, to just wake up each day
and have a smile on his face and lots of
laughter and giggles, and we try to give that to him.
The dogs give that to him. But you know, there's
nothing better when you can just see him in such
a happy me And I want him to always remember that. Yes,
there are times in this stage of his life that
(59:04):
he probably can't remember, but there might be times that
he does remember. They're not so good, parts of Dad
not being there or Dad's in hospital, and you know,
instead of looking at as a negative, actually really focusing
for him looking back on a really memorable time for him. So, yeah,
the happiness, the laughter, That's what I want him to
always look.
Speaker 5 (59:21):
Back on HUGO.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I want to say thank you for coming on and
being brave and everything you do for mental health, being
an advocate, getting people to talk about it, getting people
to think about their health as.
Speaker 5 (59:33):
More than just mah.
Speaker 4 (59:35):
You know.
Speaker 5 (59:35):
So I want to thank you for spending some time
with us and making that cry. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (59:42):
I love what you do. It's such an important podcast
because you know, you have that humor. You know, you
have a really great way of communicating the things that
often we don't talk about as parents. And for me
being a little part of this, you know, hopefully people
listening can take something away from it. So I appreciate
you guys giving me the opportunity, especially with a lot
(01:00:03):
going on at the moment. It's even this chat's given
me a bit of a boost to think, how good
is that. You know, I was in hospital last week,
I'm sitting here chatting to you two guys, you know,
opening up, being vulnerable, having a bit of a laugh.
It means a lot to me too, So thanks lads,
you go.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
I mean every word when I say you are an
incredible human And I can't tell you how much I
appreciate your time this morning. I love chatting with you.
Your surgery coming up is when?
Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
So I'm not sure when this party will be released,
but nineteenth of August, in four weeks today from the recording,
is that the big op. So I don't know when
this will come out. I might be in hospital, but yeah,
I've got four weeks now to just try and get
myself in a pretty pretty good place.
Speaker 5 (01:00:43):
You'll wake up at matt Night were there with the mic.
Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
We're thinking of you and we'll definitely keep it a
listeners updated post surgery. So thanks again.
Speaker 6 (01:00:53):
Thanks what a man, Matthew, What a man, and what
a chat and.
Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
The great charity as well. Twenty five stay Alive dot
com is the website. Their mission is to make health
checks from twenty five a normal part of life through prevention,
early detection, and action.
Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
If you want to get involved or donate, we'll leave
the link in our show notes of the episode.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
There's some great undies that you can buy on the
website and a few hoodies as well. You might see
us wearing the hoodies. They're not yet available, but as
soon as they are we'll let you guys know.
Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review, subscribe,
join us. On social media, we're at Matt.
Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Two Doting Dads. There is a Facebook group, there is
an Instagram account, and there is also TikTok. Well said, hey,
there is there is the chance. Not right now, not
next week, but maybe the week after.
Speaker 5 (01:01:48):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Yes, Jess is.
Speaker 5 (01:01:49):
Looking at me going for God's sake, boys, let's let's
do it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Let's get it together doing long form video on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
We're working on it. It's not able just yet, but
it will be.
Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
We're working tirelessly.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
That just relentless.
Speaker 5 (01:02:06):
I know we are relentlessly working, just doing nothing. Can
you please keep the game?
Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
Okay, bye bye.
Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
Speaker 5 (01:02:27):
We pay our respects to their elders past and present
and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander
people's today
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