December 18, 2025 • 32 mins
Islamic extremists opened fire on Jews celebrating Hanukkah on one of Australia’s most famous beaches.
Podcast host and commentator Erin Molan was less than a kilometer away — on her balcony with her child — when she heard the gunshots.
In this powerful conversation, Erin explains why this attack was not a surprise, how warnings about rising Islamic extremism were ignored, and why government failure allowed targeted violence against the Jewish community to escalate.
We discuss:
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The Hanukkah terror attack in Australia
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Why Jews were deliberately targeted
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Erin’s firsthand account of hearing the gunshots
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ISIS ideology and extremist threats
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Government inaction and leadership failure
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Why blaming gun laws misses the real issue
This is not a headline recap.
It’s a firsthand warning — and a conversation that needed to happen.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Islamic extremist open fire on Jews celebrating Hanakah on a
very famous beach in Australia. My guest today heard the
gunshots from her balcony with her child less than a
kilometer away. She says this attack was not a surprise
and that government failures made it inevitable. This is Aaron Mullan.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's been hard. It's been hard for the entire community.
I think it was already hard for the Jewish community
here in Australia, of which I'm not a part of.
I just am someone with a bit of common sense
and sensible enough to realize they deserve the same protection
that everyone in our society, and since October seven, this
country has really failed them in so many different ways.
(00:40):
But it's disconcerting. I think for a lot of people
there was a build up, so they weren't surprised, which
is an awful thing to say, particularly given we live
in a country with such tight gun laws. We haven't
had a mass shooting in decades. Because we had an
awful incident in Port Arthur and Tasmania and the Prime
Minister at the time, John Howard, came down really strongly
on so we just don't see this kind of thing here. So,
(01:02):
first of all, the mass shooting is it's something that's
not even on the radar for most Australians. Secondly, it
was targeted at a religious group, a bunch of Jews
celebrating you know, the festival of Light Harnka. And Thirdly,
it was Islamic extremists who you know, in the name
of Isis Islamic State are shooting people like animals on
(01:23):
our most famous beach in Australia. And you know, there's
a lot of anger. I think, you know, grief and
shock turns into anger. And again that word shock is
just is a constant, but not surprise. And I think
that's the really key part here. There are those of
us who have begged, begged the government to take this
threat seriously, who have watched it unfold, who have been
(01:45):
a part of the avalanche of domestic threats and harassment,
and you know, synagogue bombings, Joe the opera house, chanting
gas the Jews. Where are the Jews marching over the
Harbor Bridge, flying the Isis flag, the talib flag, the
Hesbula flag, harassing kids on their way to Jewish schools.
It's been this build up and we haven't had one
(02:06):
person in leadership do anything tangible that has said this
is not what goes on in our country, not on
my watch. And now we find ourselves here and we've
got innocent lives that have been taken fifteen ten year
old girl shot dead. Having to listen to her parents
talk about their pain has just been harrowing. And you know,
then I watch our Prime minister who's decided that gun
(02:27):
laws is the issue, like, come on, yes, this bloke
should not have been given a gun. His son was
investigated for isis he wasn't a resident, He should not
have been given a gun. He wasn't a citizen. But sorry,
gun laws ain't the issue we face here. And if
you're trying to frame this as now the new battleground
gun laws, we're going to lose thousands more people.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
It's Aaron Mullan joining us. It's a Thursday morning in Australia.
I appreciate you getting up for us as it's Wednesday
afternoon here in the States. I want to go back
to a few things that you just covering. You just
covered an awful and I know that you're a little
bit under the weather, but you sound and you look great,
but you've been doing so much well, I doubt that
you've got much sleep. And I get that. Let's go
back to what I saw you say as soon as
(03:11):
it happened, that you literally heard the gunshots. I mean,
this isn't you saying, Oh, it happened down the road.
You walked out and you've got a young daughter and
you guys heard something going on. Did you think it
was fireworks? I mean, because again, growing up in Australia,
you probably don't get the guns and the guns sounds
like we get here in the States oftentimes. What did
(03:32):
you think it was?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
It's a really good point. So my daughter and I
were on the balcony. We live less than a kilometer
away from the site, and we started to hear the bangs.
And initially you do think fireworks, but there was something
different about this noise. And I guess I don't hear
guns in real life a lot, if ever. But my
daughter's father is a policeman. I've been in this field
(03:56):
for a fair while now I recognize gun sounds for
covering this kind of thing a lot. I grabbed her
and we went inside. I turned on the TV and
within minutes started to see these images come through in
particularly on social media. I actually rang her dad straight
away and my first words to him was, is it
aimed at Jews? We live in a very Jewish area.
(04:16):
That it's my biggest fear, just because I've been a
very public face in this battle, you know, against the
Islamic extremism, against anti Semitism on behalf of the Jewish community.
And the first thing I said to him, and he
said yes, and you know, you just yeah. I feel
like I travel a lot overseas, Joe. As you know,
I go to America a lot. I go to the
(04:38):
Middle East a lot. I go to Canada a lot,
and there's always a lot of security around me when
I travel to those places. But at home, even though
there were all these awful things, that still had this
this safe kind of feeling. I felt like I would
go and do my work and then come home. And
it was, you know, particularly my area, the eastern suburbs
of Sydney, that was somewhere I always felt safe. If
(05:00):
there are areas in Sydney I would not go anymore.
I might have once gone, I now would not go.
Given the stance that I've taken and the work that
I do, but to have it happen right here in
our own backyard, which is what terror does, right. It's
meant to make you just feel feel fear where you're
meant to feel safe. And that's the experience of the
entire Jewish community here. I've spoken to so many people
who were there, who were shielding children who weren't theirs,
(05:23):
parents who couldn't find their children, just that panic. And
you know, I used to use this reference point when
I talk to people about hostages and say, imagine being
in a supermarket. You lose your kid for a second,
and you die inside that level of fearing. There's nothing
else like it. It's just this, And so I would
say to people, imagine if your child was in a
tunnel with hostages, and now I'm imagine your child with
(05:45):
gunshots going out and you can't find your child. There
were parents just scrambling, screaming because kids were playing. It
was a big park, there was a festival, so you know,
parents stand off to the side, kids are playing in
the middle. All of a sudden, these two cowards from
a height so just pointing and shooting and aiming at children.
I mean, I can't even imagine that that level of
(06:07):
fear and panic and how you then recover from that
if you're one of the lucky ones to survive it.
A lot of people didn't well eron.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I gotta say the word coward is one I was
going to use. I'm glad that you went there. How
else can you explain people shooting up a music festival
on October seventh? How how else can you explain people
shooting up a Hankka celebration just the other day in Australia.
They are cowards. And by the way, I watched the
entire video, not of people dying, because I didn't I
(06:36):
don't have that in me. But I watched them on
the bridge with their bolt action rifles that they're obviously
allowed to have in Australia. I thought that Australia banned
all rifles, and I'm like, oh, how did these guys
get them? And just they looked like they were military
trained and they were just firing shot after shot after
shot at defenseless people. I don't know if you if
(06:57):
your daughter's father carries a gun or not. I don't
know the situation in Australia, but I do know this
here in Texas, where I live. They would not have
been able to do it for eleven minutes. They would
have been dead way before eleven minutes, and not by
the end of a gun of a cop necessarily. I've
got five guns are in fifteen feet from where I'm
talking to you. Their mine. I'm allowed to have them.
(07:19):
Somebody were to attack my studio, and trust me, they'd
like to, They're not going to get very far. Why
wasn't anybody able to stop the attack within eleven freaking minutes.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, it's a great question, and it's one that a
lot of Australians are asking as well. So the police
have handguns. Hunting guns are allowed, so you can get licenses.
So these guys had hunting guns. And again I make
the point when someone's son is investigated five years ago
for links to Islamic state post that this bloke was
(07:53):
given six guns. I just can't. So that is an issue, absolutely,
But you're right. The other issue is nobody else had
a gun to try and protect these kids and to
try and protect people. And you know, this is an
age old debate. Police will wait for an investigation to
come through, but a lot of people have been very critical.
I also know a lot of people who are in
the police force who are saying, no, they did their
(08:15):
best with what they had and they were brave. So
it's a really it's a tough thing to kind of
come down hard on until we see the entire picture
the two cowards. As you mentioned, when I first saw
those images, Joe, and I'd put the TV on mute
when i'd come inside because I didn't want my little
girl to kind of hear the commentary. She's now at
an age where she can kind of understand and grasp it.
(08:35):
And I assumed, not even for a second did I
think they were the gunment. I thought they were police
who would come in or like undercut or something. Do
you know why, because as you said, they looked so calm,
and they looked so good, and they looked like they
were so in control and they knew what they were doing.
When I use the word good like good good gunment like,
(08:57):
as in they were experiencing they were how they look
to me, I just was seeing and I assumed they
were they were looking down to attack the gunman that
you know that the terrorists. And then it was only
after a while I went, oh, Lord, and realizing this
is in real time, as in the situation is not over.
This is in real time. They're still going. How are
(09:17):
they still going? How has no one taking them out?
They're still going? And then you know, afterwards you find
out they went to the Philippines just recently last month,
so you know, which is a terrorist hot spot. They
go there to train them. So and the other issue, Joe,
that you know you see in some situations when there's
a civilian or someone who's doing a shooting or committing
(09:39):
a crime, and they look nervous and they're fearful and
they're scared, and you know, this is a new thing
for them. With them, they don't and this is issue.
This is why you can't not call it out for
what it is, which is Islamic extremism. For them, you know,
they're cowards, absolutely. They were cowering behind a concrete wall.
As you know, kids were running and being shot. When
they felt under threat, they cower, but they weren't afraid
(10:01):
of dying. They only were protecting themselves to try and
keep going for as long as possible to kill as
many people. This is what this Islamic extremism terrorism does.
They don't fear consequences. So they're tenfold more terrifying and
more dangerous than any other type. And again I said
that they just looked calm, They didn't look panicked.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
They didn't and they were highly trained, as you said,
they weren't panic because, as you said, they wanted to
kill as many as they could because they thought that
was the right thing to do. That's how much.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And they die.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
This Islamic extreme is garbage. And they went and got
their seventy two virgins. By the way, they're running in
hell now or the one who died? Did they both died?
Did just the one day?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
No? Only one. One's just okay, So.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
He's in hell. They're no virgins waiting for him. So
and by the way, it's Erin Mullin, m l an
go follow her everywhere Erin Underscore Mollin over on YouTube
and unbelievable channel that she does. Let me ask about
the setup to the event that happened that day, obviously
a celebration the start of Hanukkah. Did everybody know this
was going to happen, because I understand thousand people or
(11:03):
more were there. Did the whole community know this was
going to happen? Was as widely advertised, and if so,
as a follow up, why the hell you know didn't
And again, I don't want to call your police out.
I'll just call the government out, who seems to be
backward to me in many ways in Australia. Did they
do even the smallest thing to bring some protection knowing
(11:24):
Jews are in the in the cross heirs right now.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It's a great question. And look at and again I say,
every single person who is in a role of authority,
or if it is your job, if your police, if
your government, if you're you know, in the department, there
will be an investigation and if you have not done
your job for whatever reason, then you absolutely must be
held to account. So you know, in fact, a lot
of people are getting in, you know, being shamed for
(11:49):
asking questions. That's our job. We're meant to ask questions.
So you're absolutely right. And when the investigation occurs and
we look at everything, I have no doubt there will
be failings. Of course failings. There's fifteen people dead. And
regarding this event, you know, I was invited to it,
so I knew that it was on. But like a
lot of things in this community, you have to keep
(12:10):
it quiet. You have to keep it private. I'm speaking,
I was speaking at the equivalent event and I still am.
It's still on on Sunday for the end of Hunniker.
I'm the guest speaker, and it was a bit meant
to be a big event outside in the city. They're
now doing a lot of things to change that and
to kind of but again, you know, you can't say
where it is, you can't say what time it is,
you can't do this. You know, it's all like that
(12:30):
is insanity in Australia that we even have to live
that way. So look, a lot of people in the
community would have known that it is on, and there's
a lot of It's so interesting in this kind of
WhatsApp group space where I'm part of a lot of
different groups or vast majority of them in the Jewish space,
and often things are shared from groups that are people
(12:51):
who wish to harm yous and they get this information
and they share it in their WhatsApp groups, so it
always leaks out. So people would have known absolutely, And look,
they always do things at Bondai. I've been to three
Jewish events at that exact spot over the last say
ten months. I've been to a friend's sons bar Mitzvah
at the building next door. I take my child to
that park often. It's renowned for you know, it's an
(13:15):
area where a lot of Jewish people live and a
lot of Jewish people would go to celebrate things like
Hahneka for those of.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Us who don't know. And Aaron, thanks for spelling all
that out. It's Aaron molland by the way, m or
La n for those who don't know. And I don't know.
I've never been to Australia. Explain Bondai Beach. It sounds beautiful.
Of course, a horrific event happened there, but it sounds
like one of those places you'd like to visit, you know,
in your lifetime. Just tell me the geography of it,
the tobography of it. Just what is Bondai Beach If
(13:43):
I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So it's I mean, it's bucket list, it's you know,
you look at the different places in Australia that are
renowned that they use in tourism ads, et cetera, et cetera.
The harbor Bridge Opera House, Bondai Beach is always the
beach and it's it's iconic and it's full of tourists.
It's full of people from all over the world. It's
full of locals, it's full of Jews, it's full of Muslims,
it's full of Hindus, it's full of Christians. It's a
(14:06):
melting pot because it is such a tourist hot spot.
It's in the east of Sydney, and the space specifically
for people to understand. So most of your listeners and
viewers would have seen the two men up on that bridge,
and I'll explain the kind of area around there. So
there's a car park behind that bridge connects the kind
of the walkway behind the car park and it takes
(14:30):
you over a car park to get to this kind
of grassy knoll that is just before the beach. So
directly straight across from that bridge where they were standing,
there's a big children's park. On the right, there's a
building that's used for a lot of Jewish events. On
the left is a big flat grass space. There's about
a meter drop and you're basically on the sand of
Bondai and that's the beach there. So these cowards, when
(14:51):
you think about the position they were in, I mean,
no one had a chance, you know, no one had
a chance where they were positioned. It was almost like
you in a cage. You No, it's just just horrific.
But it's it's renowned for joy and happiness, an Australia Day.
It's a massive, big day that you often see Australian
flags there upon thy beach. People are proud of it.
(15:12):
It's something that the people travel all over the world
to come and see. It's there's bars, there's restaurants, there's shops.
It's and again a melting pot. It's a it's a
highly popular tourist destination that now has been stained and
will be stained for I don't know for how long.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's so it's so horrible what happened. I appreciate you
telling me about the beach. I didn't know much about it.
I think a lot of people here saying Bondi Beach.
To be honest with you, because a Pam Bond here
Attorney General. It's Aaron Molin Go to erin Underscore molin
over on YouTube. Go follow her on Excess World. Do
all of that. She's a little into the weather right now.
I've been talking for the for the past four days straight. No,
no need to apologize. Let me ask you about how
(15:49):
how pervasive things like this are in Australian. Here's what
I mean. Here in the States, as you know, for
four straight years the Biden administration. It wasn't Biden because
he was he was eating ice cream and using autopen,
but the people who were running that administration for four
years opened our borders. We've got tens, potentially tens of
thousands of terrorists within our borders right now. They just
stop some event that was playing for New Year's even
(16:12):
Los Angeles Pro Palestine group allegedly behind that we had
a guy who was sort of an Afghani ally of
ours shot two National Guards members in the face. One
died in Washington, d C. The day before Thanksgiving. It's
pervasive here. There are enclaves of people who are Islamists
in this country that would like to see Western civilization
(16:33):
go away. What is it like in Australia.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I want to ask you whether or not you think Canada,
the UK and France have been particularly sympathetic to the
plight of the Jews, Western civilization Israel And the answer
is no, absolutely not been. They have taken less than
a handful, if that, of people from Gaza and they
(16:58):
are the worst when it comes to this issue, the
weakest leaders and the worst Australia. Joe has taken over
three thousand. This is just a recent example from Gaza
since October seven, a terrorist state where they voted in hamas.
They are raised to hate and to kill. Make that
(17:21):
make sense. France under Macron, No, the UK under Starmer, No,
Canada under Kearney. Even those leaders who are as weak
as Spinach, I kn't even think they are, just they
are horrific, didn't take in three thousand from Gaza. So
(17:43):
that's just one example. We have been the beneficiaries in
Australia of incredible immigration over the years. We've got, you know,
Greek Australians, Italian Australians, Chinese Australians, Indian Australian who have
come into this country and contributed immensely. They've embraced our
way of life. Yes, they've kept parts of their culture
that are special and their own religions which we love
(18:04):
freedom to do all of that. But they haven't come
here trying to destroy us. They haven't come here trying
to force their beliefs upon us. And they haven't come
here Joe trying to kill us. That to me, is
a good person to bring into your country. Some of
the people we now have in this country that have
been allowed to just absorb this hateful propaganda, who have
watched other people in this nation attack Jews for two years,
(18:27):
who have not been punished and not been held to account.
This ideology is spreading. We've got groups here, We've got more,
some preachers who celebrated October seven. We had people celebrating
it on the steps of the Opera House. Did one
of them pay a price? No, So we have pockets
of people in this country who want to kill us,
who haven't come here and said, this is a great
(18:47):
opportunity for me to raise my kids in the most
incredible country in the world. They've come here and thought,
I want to destroy what this is. And we've had
leadership who has allowed people to come into this country
who wanted to destroy us. Now the number one job
of any government, and I say the same thing about Israel.
It's not even it's not your duty to defend your people.
That's ridiculous. It is. It is your job. It is
(19:10):
your entire point of existence. It's not your right like
you have to This is the thing This is why
we put people in power, like, yes, all the other
stuff can come secondary, sort the economy, blah blah. Keep
us safe, that's it. Don't let people in who are
gonna kill us. Erin.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
It's the first job. I'm sure you've heard about what's
happening in Chicago, what's happening in Minneapolis. In the States,
I mean, those people don't think they have to protect
the people in their cities, those governors that don't think
they have to protect the people in their states. It
doesn't Again, Biden for four years didn't think you had
to protect the American people. But here's the question. France
(19:47):
is backward on immigration, but they were smart enough. Same
thing with Canada, same thing with Italy is dumb on immigration.
I think they've done a better job with not taking
as many gosins as you guys have. So so let
me ask you this, what was the sales job? What
was the sales pitched by your leadership? We need three
thousand people in our country that have nothing but hate
(20:09):
for Judeo Christian values and for Western civilization. What did
they say?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Joe, Joe, Joe, Now you've made a rookie era, as
if they asked as if as if they sought our approval.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I'm sorry, yeah, I'm on so.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
They did it.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well, let me stop here because you make me go
to the next point. Because you're right, it was a
rookie question, maybe rhetorical, give me a little credit.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
But having said that, because it's such a legitimate question to.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
What's going on in the UK. No, you're right. By
the way those watching listening, there's a bit of a delay.
We're not really talking over each other. It takes a
second to get to get to Australia. In the UK,
they pretty much said to the to the residents of
the UK also, But now they've taken it to the
step that if you complain about those shutting down London
Bridge by doing the prayer, you get arrested if you
(21:03):
posted on Facebook or x Are we there in Australia too?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Can Eric?
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Can you do what you do without fear of persecution
or not?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Look, I can from that perspective absolutely, I get you know, persecution,
not from government in regards to being arrested. We're not
in the UK yet, but I mean, give us time, Joe,
give us time. I look at what's happening over there
and it's it is insanity and the absolute hypocrisy of
it too. You know, you can come into the UK
(21:37):
if you like, despite the fact that you have celebrated
October seven online and you have said you want to
kill Jews, but god forbid, you're someone who was born
there and you say, I don't want that person who
wants to kill us to come into the country. Go penitentiary,
ten years, you're gone. I mean, it's not even exaggerating. Yeah, yeah, like,
(21:57):
but this is the issue, and this is this is
why people are terrified to fight back and people you know,
you've got on one side, You've got the Islamic extremists
and Joe as you know, because you're in this space too,
and you fight against this as well. That's a somewhat
terrifying prospect being on their radar. Then you've got to
also worry about the people who are charged with keeping
you safe, saying, oh no, you might have hurt someone's
(22:20):
feelings who wants to kill us when you said, when
you say that you don't want Islamic extremists in Australia,
that might have hurt their feelings. And we just can't
afford that because we are an open welcoming nation. I mean,
come on, like it would be parody if someone came
to you, Joe and said, I want to do this
short story or this movie or this series. And this
(22:41):
is what's going to happen. There's going to be a
country and they're going to say we're going to let
all these people who have terrorist ideology into the country.
The people already in the country are going to say, no, no,
we don't want them here because we want to live
and we want to protect our kids. And then the
government says, how dare you you racist bigots? Go to jail.
You'd say, oh, it's just not believable enough. It's a
bit silly.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
It could it couldn't be proved. Well, you're you're right.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Wait, they'd say, no, one believe it.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
It is. It is Aaron Mullin. Go and follow her
m l A and is her last name, first name Erin.
It's Aaron underscore Molin on socials. Go follow her on YouTube.
She's doing very very well on YouTube. Let me let
let me throw this out there people in this country
because of what happened in Washington, d C. Because of
what's going on in in l A. And thwarting that
that that want to be attacked. People here are saying
(23:28):
out loud, get them out. We didn't vet anybody from Afghanistan.
We didn't vet anybody. God forbid that somebody's here from Gaza.
I don't think they are. Maybe they are, I don't
think so. Uh, but we we aren't vetting anybody for
four years. Now suddenly we're seeing people dying in the
streets because of a strange belief to our land. We
are saying, get them out. Are the people rising up
(23:49):
in Australia saying find these people and get them out,
please say that they.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Are absolutely look not in the kind of numbers that
I would I would prefer, but I think it's I mean,
what risk are you willing to take? And I made
this point off the back of Trump's action, you know,
after one of your latest shootings and involving the Afghanistani.
And I made the point. You know, my dad was
over there fighting. There were incredible people in that country
(24:15):
who helped the Allied forces, who were translators, who were fixers,
who risked their lives to help. And my heart breaks
that we can't help all of them. But that's just
a reality. This suicidal empathy will kill us and Australians,
I think, are the same. Again. We are a welcoming nation.
We love people from all over the world coming to
(24:36):
our country. We need people to come. We're a small country.
But I think Australians are now starting to realize that
actually there's a price you pay if your desire for
empathy and your desire from a government perspective to get
lots of taxes in, and your desire to look like
you're good, decent people somehow becomes a greater pull and
(24:57):
a greater force than your desire to keep people safe.
And that's where we've suddenly landed. I think here in
Australia again, it's not about being racist. Not wanting people
to come in and kill you is not racist. It's
not figurted, it's not Islamophobic, it's none of those things.
It's just sensible. It's common sense. It's survival instinct. Were
human beings. We are wired. The terrorists aren't, clearly, but
(25:20):
we are wired to survive and to fight for survival.
And I just wish that that, you know, urging people
was stronger, and I feel like it will be now.
So yes, we're already saying to people, we've got to
get these people out. You know, in the UAE, in
parts of the Middle East, in Arab nations, you can't
even say a terrorist organization's name. You can't. You can't
(25:43):
hold up a banner or a flag, or you are arrested,
if not worse, they have zero tolerance because they know
who these people are and they know what they're capable of.
Yet here in Australia, why do we think we know better?
In Western nations, we're like, oh, no, freedom of speech. No,
you're waving a terrorist flag, chanting death to Jews. Well,
look you got what you wanted now and you're still
(26:04):
in this country.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
What's interesting Eron is is the freedom of speech argument
is a bad one. And here's why it's a bad one.
And we believe in free speech more here in the
United States, I think than anywhere else on earth. It's
a bad argument because my retort is always this, in
nineteen forty three, if a bunch of Germans showed up
on our shore and decided to put on the SS
uniforms and march down Main Street, USA, would we have
(26:28):
allowed it. That's free speech, freedom to assemble, freedom to
bring redress, of course not. It's an enemy force. It's
an enemy force that is literally saying we want to
kill you and your way of life. That's what these
people are doing. When they're flying Palestinian flags or or
Hamas flags, or ISIS flags or is the Islamic State flaw,
(26:50):
whatever the hell it happens to be, the Muslim Brotherhood flags,
they are saying we are here to kill you. That
isn't free speech. That is an attack, is what it.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Is, exactly. And you look at the mandate of any
of these organizations, at their I mean, it's not even
like they're subtle. If they were really clever and hiding
their intentions, we could all wake up the other day
and say, you know what, there's nothing we could have
done because we had no idea they felt this way.
We have no idea that someone inspired by Islamic State
would want to kill us, or somebody funded by the
(27:21):
Muslim Brotherhood would want to kill us. Well, you know what, Joe,
they write it down, they preach it, They told us
a million times over. They have told us what they want.
It is to destroy us, to kill us, to replace us,
and ignorance, Yes, exactly. And then we go, oh, my gosh,
(27:42):
what the hell. No, they're telling us. They're telling and
they're telling us how go in, go in, do it peacefully,
immerse yourself, schools, universities, social media. You know, it's not
it's not that we've suddenly just gone, oh my gosh,
what's going on? We know, but for some reason we're
arrogant enough to think it won't happen to us, or
(28:03):
they're not really serious.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Well, they are serious, They are well, and they keep
on proving it to us, and we keep on saying, oh,
I don't know. You know, you mentioned something earlier that
Australian government said, Hey, maybe it'll help the tax base,
and hey, it'll show that we're really good people. I
don't think the first part is even is even in there.
I think it's all trying to prove to somebody that
we don't have to prove anything to that we're nice people.
Of course we're nice people. We live in civilized societies.
(28:25):
Western civilization is the best that has ever existed, and
they hate it because they don't have the power and
control to force whatever weird belief they have upon us.
So I think it's probably the second. We see a
lot of that in the United States. It's Aaron Mullen. Aaron,
You've given me so much time. I want to finish
with this. If you don't mind, you've got to come
back more often and stop stopped talking me.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Never I know.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Let me, let me, let me ask you this. You're
not Jewish. I'm not Jewish. I'm a Christian person.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I think you're a Christian I am, Katherine.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Why do you fight so hard for Israel? Why are
you okay but being called as I mean? Why is
it that you put yourself in the front and center
to defend these people who's religion you are not a
part of?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Joe, do you know what the best example of why is? No,
tell me what happened on Sunday. Yes, what happened on
Sunday is the best example of my why. And not
just because I'm a human being who cares deeply about
human beings from all different backgrounds, culture's religions. That could
(29:30):
have been me there with my daughter. That they don't
care who they kill, and I knew from day dot
that this kind of evil was not just trying to
destroy the Jews. So yes, I would stand with any
minority group of people who are being attacked by terrorists.
But my stance is also a selfish one, because I
am smart enough to understand that when they drive a
car into a Christmas market in Brussels, they ain't checking
(29:53):
if you're wearing a cross or a star, whether you're Hindu,
whether you're Muslim. They don't care. They want to destroy
us all. So I could see straight away that this
kind of evil ideology was coming for us all. They
might start with the Jews, they might derive more joy
from killing the Jews, but they are happy to wipe
us all out, and that's part of their plan. So
(30:14):
you've got to stand with the side of good versus evil,
and Joe if my country can't look at what happened
on Sunday, because I looked at October seven, and I
knew straight away which side I was on. It was
not complex, and it's not the side of guards and
children versus Israel. They're on the side of Israel. The
guards and children. In my mind, they're innocent children born.
The enemy to them and to Israel is the same.
(30:36):
It is Islamic extremism. I knew straight away the side
of good versus evil. If Australians can't look at what
happened on Sunday, and if the Western world can't look
at that and say which group do I align with more?
A group of innocent people celebrating their faith, peacefully trying
to protect each other, people jumping on top of other people,
giving their lives for others. Or two cowards on a bridge,
(30:59):
male adults with shotguns with rifles shooting people off like animals.
If you can't determine which side more alignce with your values,
then screw you. You don't belong in any Western country.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
It's my why as well eron. I think that's why
we hit it off so well and why we get
along so well. I'll finish with this something you know,
but I'll say for the audience's sake as well. On
nine to eleven A lot of Muslims died that day
in those buildings. It didn't matter that there were Jews, Muslims, Christians, atheists,
none of that mattered. Hindu Buddhists, it didn't matter. What
mattered was they wanted mass casualties to scare us into submission.
(31:34):
Something you want allowed to happen to you, something I
want allowed to happen to me. And by the way,
when they kill Muslims, they say it's okay. They're going
to go straight to the right hand of Allah. It's
okay if they die during our mission, which of course
is nuts. As you said, it's not sane to allow
this to happen and not raise your voice and say something.
You've got a major voice, not only in Australia, but
you're globally. You're growing every single day. Thank you for
(31:55):
being out in front of this, and thank you so
much for your friendship and for coming on today.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
You are a legend, and I know that your audience
loves you already. But if I can just say, I've
met so many people in this industry over twenty years
in media, you are one of the most genuine, passionate,
best broadcasters I've encountered, and the most supportive of other broadcasters.
And let me tell your audience that is rare. That
is extremely rare. So you should value this bloke that
(32:20):
you get to listen to every day. They're very lucky
to have you as am I as ore. We thank you, Joe.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Honored so much erin thank you so much. I can
say exactly the same. Your way, people like you could
easily blow somebody like me off and the fact that
you're mutually supportive not only of me, but of other
broadcasters as well. It just means that you are so
secure in what it is that you're doing and you
want more people to do it the right way as well.
Erin thanks a million, make rest your voice for a
second of your kennel and come back on against you.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Okay, I'd love to.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You're amazing, all right. That's it for Unshaken and Not
Afraid with Joe PAGs this time, back with another one
very soon. Make sure make sure you subscribe right here.
Islamic extremist open fire on Jews celebrating Hanakah on a
very famous beach in Australia. My guest today heard the
gunshots from her balcony with her child less than a
kilometer away. She says this attack was not a surprise
and that government failures made it inevitable. This is Aaron Mullan.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's been hard. It's been hard for the entire community.
I think it was already hard for the Jewish community
here in Australia, of which I'm not a part of.
I just am someone with a bit of common sense
and sensible enough to realize they deserve the same protection
that everyone in our society, and since October seven, this
country has really failed them in so many different ways.
(00:40):
But it's disconcerting. I think for a lot of people
there was a build up, so they weren't surprised, which
is an awful thing to say, particularly given we live
in a country with such tight gun laws. We haven't
had a mass shooting in decades. Because we had an
awful incident in Port Arthur and Tasmania and the Prime
Minister at the time, John Howard, came down really strongly
on so we just don't see this kind of thing here. So,
(01:02):
first of all, the mass shooting is it's something that's
not even on the radar for most Australians. Secondly, it
was targeted at a religious group, a bunch of Jews
celebrating you know, the festival of Light Harnka. And Thirdly,
it was Islamic extremists who you know, in the name
of Isis Islamic State are shooting people like animals on
(01:23):
our most famous beach in Australia. And you know, there's
a lot of anger. I think, you know, grief and
shock turns into anger. And again that word shock is
just is a constant, but not surprise. And I think
that's the really key part here. There are those of
us who have begged, begged the government to take this
threat seriously, who have watched it unfold, who have been
(01:45):
a part of the avalanche of domestic threats and harassment,
and you know, synagogue bombings, Joe the opera house, chanting
gas the Jews. Where are the Jews marching over the
Harbor Bridge, flying the Isis flag, the talib flag, the
Hesbula flag, harassing kids on their way to Jewish schools.
It's been this build up and we haven't had one
(02:06):
person in leadership do anything tangible that has said this
is not what goes on in our country, not on
my watch. And now we find ourselves here and we've
got innocent lives that have been taken fifteen ten year
old girl shot dead. Having to listen to her parents
talk about their pain has just been harrowing. And you know,
then I watch our Prime minister who's decided that gun
(02:27):
laws is the issue, like, come on, yes, this bloke
should not have been given a gun. His son was
investigated for isis he wasn't a resident, He should not
have been given a gun. He wasn't a citizen. But sorry,
gun laws ain't the issue we face here. And if
you're trying to frame this as now the new battleground
gun laws, we're going to lose thousands more people.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
It's Aaron Mullan joining us. It's a Thursday morning in Australia.
I appreciate you getting up for us as it's Wednesday
afternoon here in the States. I want to go back
to a few things that you just covering. You just
covered an awful and I know that you're a little
bit under the weather, but you sound and you look great,
but you've been doing so much well, I doubt that
you've got much sleep. And I get that. Let's go
back to what I saw you say as soon as
(03:11):
it happened, that you literally heard the gunshots. I mean,
this isn't you saying, Oh, it happened down the road.
You walked out and you've got a young daughter and
you guys heard something going on. Did you think it
was fireworks? I mean, because again, growing up in Australia,
you probably don't get the guns and the guns sounds
like we get here in the States oftentimes. What did
(03:32):
you think it was?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
It's a really good point. So my daughter and I
were on the balcony. We live less than a kilometer
away from the site, and we started to hear the bangs.
And initially you do think fireworks, but there was something
different about this noise. And I guess I don't hear
guns in real life a lot, if ever. But my
daughter's father is a policeman. I've been in this field
(03:56):
for a fair while now I recognize gun sounds for
covering this kind of thing a lot. I grabbed her
and we went inside. I turned on the TV and
within minutes started to see these images come through in
particularly on social media. I actually rang her dad straight
away and my first words to him was, is it
aimed at Jews? We live in a very Jewish area.
(04:16):
That it's my biggest fear, just because I've been a
very public face in this battle, you know, against the
Islamic extremism, against anti Semitism on behalf of the Jewish community.
And the first thing I said to him, and he
said yes, and you know, you just yeah. I feel
like I travel a lot overseas, Joe. As you know,
I go to America a lot. I go to the
(04:38):
Middle East a lot. I go to Canada a lot,
and there's always a lot of security around me when
I travel to those places. But at home, even though
there were all these awful things, that still had this
this safe kind of feeling. I felt like I would
go and do my work and then come home. And
it was, you know, particularly my area, the eastern suburbs
of Sydney, that was somewhere I always felt safe. If
(05:00):
there are areas in Sydney I would not go anymore.
I might have once gone, I now would not go.
Given the stance that I've taken and the work that
I do, but to have it happen right here in
our own backyard, which is what terror does, right. It's
meant to make you just feel feel fear where you're
meant to feel safe. And that's the experience of the
entire Jewish community here. I've spoken to so many people
who were there, who were shielding children who weren't theirs,
(05:23):
parents who couldn't find their children, just that panic. And
you know, I used to use this reference point when
I talk to people about hostages and say, imagine being
in a supermarket. You lose your kid for a second,
and you die inside that level of fearing. There's nothing
else like it. It's just this, And so I would
say to people, imagine if your child was in a
tunnel with hostages, and now I'm imagine your child with
(05:45):
gunshots going out and you can't find your child. There
were parents just scrambling, screaming because kids were playing. It
was a big park, there was a festival, so you know,
parents stand off to the side, kids are playing in
the middle. All of a sudden, these two cowards from
a height so just pointing and shooting and aiming at children.
I mean, I can't even imagine that that level of
(06:07):
fear and panic and how you then recover from that
if you're one of the lucky ones to survive it.
A lot of people didn't well eron.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I gotta say the word coward is one I was
going to use. I'm glad that you went there. How
else can you explain people shooting up a music festival
on October seventh? How how else can you explain people
shooting up a Hankka celebration just the other day in Australia.
They are cowards. And by the way, I watched the
entire video, not of people dying, because I didn't I
(06:36):
don't have that in me. But I watched them on
the bridge with their bolt action rifles that they're obviously
allowed to have in Australia. I thought that Australia banned
all rifles, and I'm like, oh, how did these guys
get them? And just they looked like they were military
trained and they were just firing shot after shot after
shot at defenseless people. I don't know if you if
(06:57):
your daughter's father carries a gun or not. I don't
know the situation in Australia, but I do know this
here in Texas, where I live. They would not have
been able to do it for eleven minutes. They would
have been dead way before eleven minutes, and not by
the end of a gun of a cop necessarily. I've
got five guns are in fifteen feet from where I'm
talking to you. Their mine. I'm allowed to have them.
(07:19):
Somebody were to attack my studio, and trust me, they'd
like to, They're not going to get very far. Why
wasn't anybody able to stop the attack within eleven freaking minutes.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, it's a great question, and it's one that a
lot of Australians are asking as well. So the police
have handguns. Hunting guns are allowed, so you can get licenses.
So these guys had hunting guns. And again I make
the point when someone's son is investigated five years ago
for links to Islamic state post that this bloke was
(07:53):
given six guns. I just can't. So that is an issue, absolutely,
But you're right. The other issue is nobody else had
a gun to try and protect these kids and to
try and protect people. And you know, this is an
age old debate. Police will wait for an investigation to
come through, but a lot of people have been very critical.
I also know a lot of people who are in
the police force who are saying, no, they did their
(08:15):
best with what they had and they were brave. So
it's a really it's a tough thing to kind of
come down hard on until we see the entire picture
the two cowards. As you mentioned, when I first saw
those images, Joe, and I'd put the TV on mute
when i'd come inside because I didn't want my little
girl to kind of hear the commentary. She's now at
an age where she can kind of understand and grasp it.
(08:35):
And I assumed, not even for a second did I
think they were the gunment. I thought they were police
who would come in or like undercut or something. Do
you know why, because as you said, they looked so calm,
and they looked so good, and they looked like they
were so in control and they knew what they were doing.
When I use the word good like good good gunment like,
(08:57):
as in they were experiencing they were how they look
to me, I just was seeing and I assumed they
were they were looking down to attack the gunman that
you know that the terrorists. And then it was only
after a while I went, oh, Lord, and realizing this
is in real time, as in the situation is not over.
This is in real time. They're still going. How are
(09:17):
they still going? How has no one taking them out?
They're still going? And then you know, afterwards you find
out they went to the Philippines just recently last month,
so you know, which is a terrorist hot spot. They
go there to train them. So and the other issue, Joe,
that you know you see in some situations when there's
a civilian or someone who's doing a shooting or committing
(09:39):
a crime, and they look nervous and they're fearful and
they're scared, and you know, this is a new thing
for them. With them, they don't and this is issue.
This is why you can't not call it out for
what it is, which is Islamic extremism. For them, you know,
they're cowards, absolutely. They were cowering behind a concrete wall.
As you know, kids were running and being shot. When
they felt under threat, they cower, but they weren't afraid
(10:01):
of dying. They only were protecting themselves to try and
keep going for as long as possible to kill as
many people. This is what this Islamic extremism terrorism does.
They don't fear consequences. So they're tenfold more terrifying and
more dangerous than any other type. And again I said
that they just looked calm, They didn't look panicked.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
They didn't and they were highly trained, as you said,
they weren't panic because, as you said, they wanted to
kill as many as they could because they thought that
was the right thing to do. That's how much.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And they die.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
This Islamic extreme is garbage. And they went and got
their seventy two virgins. By the way, they're running in
hell now or the one who died? Did they both died?
Did just the one day?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
No? Only one. One's just okay, So.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
He's in hell. They're no virgins waiting for him. So
and by the way, it's Erin Mullin, m l an
go follow her everywhere Erin Underscore Mollin over on YouTube
and unbelievable channel that she does. Let me ask about
the setup to the event that happened that day, obviously
a celebration the start of Hanukkah. Did everybody know this
was going to happen, because I understand thousand people or
(11:03):
more were there. Did the whole community know this was
going to happen? Was as widely advertised, and if so,
as a follow up, why the hell you know didn't
And again, I don't want to call your police out.
I'll just call the government out, who seems to be
backward to me in many ways in Australia. Did they
do even the smallest thing to bring some protection knowing
(11:24):
Jews are in the in the cross heirs right now.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It's a great question. And look at and again I say,
every single person who is in a role of authority,
or if it is your job, if your police, if
your government, if you're you know, in the department, there
will be an investigation and if you have not done
your job for whatever reason, then you absolutely must be
held to account. So you know, in fact, a lot
of people are getting in, you know, being shamed for
(11:49):
asking questions. That's our job. We're meant to ask questions.
So you're absolutely right. And when the investigation occurs and
we look at everything, I have no doubt there will
be failings. Of course failings. There's fifteen people dead. And
regarding this event, you know, I was invited to it,
so I knew that it was on. But like a
lot of things in this community, you have to keep
(12:10):
it quiet. You have to keep it private. I'm speaking,
I was speaking at the equivalent event and I still am.
It's still on on Sunday for the end of Hunniker.
I'm the guest speaker, and it was a bit meant
to be a big event outside in the city. They're
now doing a lot of things to change that and
to kind of but again, you know, you can't say
where it is, you can't say what time it is,
you can't do this. You know, it's all like that
(12:30):
is insanity in Australia that we even have to live
that way. So look, a lot of people in the
community would have known that it is on, and there's
a lot of It's so interesting in this kind of
WhatsApp group space where I'm part of a lot of
different groups or vast majority of them in the Jewish space,
and often things are shared from groups that are people
(12:51):
who wish to harm yous and they get this information
and they share it in their WhatsApp groups, so it
always leaks out. So people would have known absolutely, And look,
they always do things at Bondai. I've been to three
Jewish events at that exact spot over the last say
ten months. I've been to a friend's sons bar Mitzvah
at the building next door. I take my child to
that park often. It's renowned for you know, it's an
(13:15):
area where a lot of Jewish people live and a
lot of Jewish people would go to celebrate things like
Hahneka for those of.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Us who don't know. And Aaron, thanks for spelling all
that out. It's Aaron molland by the way, m or
La n for those who don't know. And I don't know.
I've never been to Australia. Explain Bondai Beach. It sounds beautiful.
Of course, a horrific event happened there, but it sounds
like one of those places you'd like to visit, you know,
in your lifetime. Just tell me the geography of it,
the tobography of it. Just what is Bondai Beach If
(13:43):
I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So it's I mean, it's bucket list, it's you know,
you look at the different places in Australia that are
renowned that they use in tourism ads, et cetera, et cetera.
The harbor Bridge Opera House, Bondai Beach is always the
beach and it's it's iconic and it's full of tourists.
It's full of people from all over the world. It's
full of locals, it's full of Jews, it's full of Muslims,
it's full of Hindus, it's full of Christians. It's a
(14:06):
melting pot because it is such a tourist hot spot.
It's in the east of Sydney, and the space specifically
for people to understand. So most of your listeners and
viewers would have seen the two men up on that bridge,
and I'll explain the kind of area around there. So
there's a car park behind that bridge connects the kind
of the walkway behind the car park and it takes
(14:30):
you over a car park to get to this kind
of grassy knoll that is just before the beach. So
directly straight across from that bridge where they were standing,
there's a big children's park. On the right, there's a
building that's used for a lot of Jewish events. On
the left is a big flat grass space. There's about
a meter drop and you're basically on the sand of
Bondai and that's the beach there. So these cowards, when
(14:51):
you think about the position they were in, I mean,
no one had a chance, you know, no one had
a chance where they were positioned. It was almost like
you in a cage. You No, it's just just horrific.
But it's it's renowned for joy and happiness, an Australia Day.
It's a massive, big day that you often see Australian
flags there upon thy beach. People are proud of it.
(15:12):
It's something that the people travel all over the world
to come and see. It's there's bars, there's restaurants, there's shops.
It's and again a melting pot. It's a it's a
highly popular tourist destination that now has been stained and
will be stained for I don't know for how long.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's so it's so horrible what happened. I appreciate you
telling me about the beach. I didn't know much about it.
I think a lot of people here saying Bondi Beach.
To be honest with you, because a Pam Bond here
Attorney General. It's Aaron Molin Go to erin Underscore molin
over on YouTube. Go follow her on Excess World. Do
all of that. She's a little into the weather right now.
I've been talking for the for the past four days straight. No,
no need to apologize. Let me ask you about how
(15:49):
how pervasive things like this are in Australian. Here's what
I mean. Here in the States, as you know, for
four straight years the Biden administration. It wasn't Biden because
he was he was eating ice cream and using autopen,
but the people who were running that administration for four
years opened our borders. We've got tens, potentially tens of
thousands of terrorists within our borders right now. They just
stop some event that was playing for New Year's even
(16:12):
Los Angeles Pro Palestine group allegedly behind that we had
a guy who was sort of an Afghani ally of
ours shot two National Guards members in the face. One
died in Washington, d C. The day before Thanksgiving. It's
pervasive here. There are enclaves of people who are Islamists
in this country that would like to see Western civilization
(16:33):
go away. What is it like in Australia.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I want to ask you whether or not you think Canada,
the UK and France have been particularly sympathetic to the
plight of the Jews, Western civilization Israel And the answer
is no, absolutely not been. They have taken less than
a handful, if that, of people from Gaza and they
(16:58):
are the worst when it comes to this issue, the
weakest leaders and the worst Australia. Joe has taken over
three thousand. This is just a recent example from Gaza
since October seven, a terrorist state where they voted in hamas.
They are raised to hate and to kill. Make that
(17:21):
make sense. France under Macron, No, the UK under Starmer, No,
Canada under Kearney. Even those leaders who are as weak
as Spinach, I kn't even think they are, just they
are horrific, didn't take in three thousand from Gaza. So
(17:43):
that's just one example. We have been the beneficiaries in
Australia of incredible immigration over the years. We've got, you know,
Greek Australians, Italian Australians, Chinese Australians, Indian Australian who have
come into this country and contributed immensely. They've embraced our
way of life. Yes, they've kept parts of their culture
that are special and their own religions which we love
(18:04):
freedom to do all of that. But they haven't come
here trying to destroy us. They haven't come here trying
to force their beliefs upon us. And they haven't come
here Joe trying to kill us. That to me, is
a good person to bring into your country. Some of
the people we now have in this country that have
been allowed to just absorb this hateful propaganda, who have
watched other people in this nation attack Jews for two years,
(18:27):
who have not been punished and not been held to account.
This ideology is spreading. We've got groups here, We've got more,
some preachers who celebrated October seven. We had people celebrating
it on the steps of the Opera House. Did one
of them pay a price? No, So we have pockets
of people in this country who want to kill us,
who haven't come here and said, this is a great
(18:47):
opportunity for me to raise my kids in the most
incredible country in the world. They've come here and thought,
I want to destroy what this is. And we've had
leadership who has allowed people to come into this country
who wanted to destroy us. Now the number one job
of any government, and I say the same thing about Israel.
It's not even it's not your duty to defend your people.
That's ridiculous. It is. It is your job. It is
(19:10):
your entire point of existence. It's not your right like
you have to This is the thing This is why
we put people in power, like, yes, all the other
stuff can come secondary, sort the economy, blah blah. Keep
us safe, that's it. Don't let people in who are
gonna kill us. Erin.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
It's the first job. I'm sure you've heard about what's
happening in Chicago, what's happening in Minneapolis. In the States,
I mean, those people don't think they have to protect
the people in their cities, those governors that don't think
they have to protect the people in their states. It
doesn't Again, Biden for four years didn't think you had
to protect the American people. But here's the question. France
(19:47):
is backward on immigration, but they were smart enough. Same
thing with Canada, same thing with Italy is dumb on immigration.
I think they've done a better job with not taking
as many gosins as you guys have. So so let
me ask you this, what was the sales job? What
was the sales pitched by your leadership? We need three
thousand people in our country that have nothing but hate
(20:09):
for Judeo Christian values and for Western civilization. What did
they say?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Joe, Joe, Joe, Now you've made a rookie era, as
if they asked as if as if they sought our approval.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
I'm sorry, yeah, I'm on so.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
They did it.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well, let me stop here because you make me go
to the next point. Because you're right, it was a
rookie question, maybe rhetorical, give me a little credit.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
But having said that, because it's such a legitimate question to.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
What's going on in the UK. No, you're right. By
the way those watching listening, there's a bit of a delay.
We're not really talking over each other. It takes a
second to get to get to Australia. In the UK,
they pretty much said to the to the residents of
the UK also, But now they've taken it to the
step that if you complain about those shutting down London
Bridge by doing the prayer, you get arrested if you
(21:03):
posted on Facebook or x Are we there in Australia too?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Can Eric?
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Can you do what you do without fear of persecution
or not?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Look, I can from that perspective absolutely, I get you know, persecution,
not from government in regards to being arrested. We're not
in the UK yet, but I mean, give us time, Joe,
give us time. I look at what's happening over there
and it's it is insanity and the absolute hypocrisy of
it too. You know, you can come into the UK
(21:37):
if you like, despite the fact that you have celebrated
October seven online and you have said you want to
kill Jews, but god forbid, you're someone who was born
there and you say, I don't want that person who
wants to kill us to come into the country. Go penitentiary,
ten years, you're gone. I mean, it's not even exaggerating. Yeah, yeah, like,
(21:57):
but this is the issue, and this is this is
why people are terrified to fight back and people you know,
you've got on one side, You've got the Islamic extremists
and Joe as you know, because you're in this space too,
and you fight against this as well. That's a somewhat
terrifying prospect being on their radar. Then you've got to
also worry about the people who are charged with keeping
you safe, saying, oh no, you might have hurt someone's
(22:20):
feelings who wants to kill us when you said, when
you say that you don't want Islamic extremists in Australia,
that might have hurt their feelings. And we just can't
afford that because we are an open welcoming nation. I mean,
come on, like it would be parody if someone came
to you, Joe and said, I want to do this
short story or this movie or this series. And this
(22:41):
is what's going to happen. There's going to be a
country and they're going to say we're going to let
all these people who have terrorist ideology into the country.
The people already in the country are going to say, no, no,
we don't want them here because we want to live
and we want to protect our kids. And then the
government says, how dare you you racist bigots? Go to jail.
You'd say, oh, it's just not believable enough. It's a
bit silly.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
It could it couldn't be proved. Well, you're you're right.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Wait, they'd say, no, one believe it.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
It is. It is Aaron Mullin. Go and follow her
m l A and is her last name, first name Erin.
It's Aaron underscore Molin on socials. Go follow her on YouTube.
She's doing very very well on YouTube. Let me let
let me throw this out there people in this country
because of what happened in Washington, d C. Because of
what's going on in in l A. And thwarting that
that that want to be attacked. People here are saying
(23:28):
out loud, get them out. We didn't vet anybody from Afghanistan.
We didn't vet anybody. God forbid that somebody's here from Gaza.
I don't think they are. Maybe they are, I don't
think so. Uh, but we we aren't vetting anybody for
four years. Now suddenly we're seeing people dying in the
streets because of a strange belief to our land. We
are saying, get them out. Are the people rising up
(23:49):
in Australia saying find these people and get them out,
please say that they.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Are absolutely look not in the kind of numbers that
I would I would prefer, but I think it's I mean,
what risk are you willing to take? And I made
this point off the back of Trump's action, you know,
after one of your latest shootings and involving the Afghanistani.
And I made the point. You know, my dad was
over there fighting. There were incredible people in that country
(24:15):
who helped the Allied forces, who were translators, who were fixers,
who risked their lives to help. And my heart breaks
that we can't help all of them. But that's just
a reality. This suicidal empathy will kill us and Australians,
I think, are the same. Again. We are a welcoming nation.
We love people from all over the world coming to
(24:36):
our country. We need people to come. We're a small country.
But I think Australians are now starting to realize that
actually there's a price you pay if your desire for
empathy and your desire from a government perspective to get
lots of taxes in, and your desire to look like
you're good, decent people somehow becomes a greater pull and
(24:57):
a greater force than your desire to keep people safe.
And that's where we've suddenly landed. I think here in
Australia again, it's not about being racist. Not wanting people
to come in and kill you is not racist. It's
not figurted, it's not Islamophobic, it's none of those things.
It's just sensible. It's common sense. It's survival instinct. Were
human beings. We are wired. The terrorists aren't, clearly, but
(25:20):
we are wired to survive and to fight for survival.
And I just wish that that, you know, urging people
was stronger, and I feel like it will be now.
So yes, we're already saying to people, we've got to
get these people out. You know, in the UAE, in
parts of the Middle East, in Arab nations, you can't
even say a terrorist organization's name. You can't. You can't
(25:43):
hold up a banner or a flag, or you are arrested,
if not worse, they have zero tolerance because they know
who these people are and they know what they're capable of.
Yet here in Australia, why do we think we know better?
In Western nations, we're like, oh, no, freedom of speech. No,
you're waving a terrorist flag, chanting death to Jews. Well,
look you got what you wanted now and you're still
(26:04):
in this country.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
What's interesting Eron is is the freedom of speech argument
is a bad one. And here's why it's a bad one.
And we believe in free speech more here in the
United States, I think than anywhere else on earth. It's
a bad argument because my retort is always this, in
nineteen forty three, if a bunch of Germans showed up
on our shore and decided to put on the SS
uniforms and march down Main Street, USA, would we have
(26:28):
allowed it. That's free speech, freedom to assemble, freedom to
bring redress, of course not. It's an enemy force. It's
an enemy force that is literally saying we want to
kill you and your way of life. That's what these
people are doing. When they're flying Palestinian flags or or
Hamas flags, or ISIS flags or is the Islamic State flaw,
(26:50):
whatever the hell it happens to be, the Muslim Brotherhood flags,
they are saying we are here to kill you. That
isn't free speech. That is an attack, is what it.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Is, exactly. And you look at the mandate of any
of these organizations, at their I mean, it's not even
like they're subtle. If they were really clever and hiding
their intentions, we could all wake up the other day
and say, you know what, there's nothing we could have
done because we had no idea they felt this way.
We have no idea that someone inspired by Islamic State
would want to kill us, or somebody funded by the
(27:21):
Muslim Brotherhood would want to kill us. Well, you know what, Joe,
they write it down, they preach it, They told us
a million times over. They have told us what they want.
It is to destroy us, to kill us, to replace us,
and ignorance, Yes, exactly. And then we go, oh, my gosh,
(27:42):
what the hell. No, they're telling us. They're telling and
they're telling us how go in, go in, do it peacefully,
immerse yourself, schools, universities, social media. You know, it's not
it's not that we've suddenly just gone, oh my gosh,
what's going on? We know, but for some reason we're
arrogant enough to think it won't happen to us, or
(28:03):
they're not really serious.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Well, they are serious, They are well, and they keep
on proving it to us, and we keep on saying, oh,
I don't know. You know, you mentioned something earlier that
Australian government said, Hey, maybe it'll help the tax base,
and hey, it'll show that we're really good people. I
don't think the first part is even is even in there.
I think it's all trying to prove to somebody that
we don't have to prove anything to that we're nice people.
Of course we're nice people. We live in civilized societies.
(28:25):
Western civilization is the best that has ever existed, and
they hate it because they don't have the power and
control to force whatever weird belief they have upon us.
So I think it's probably the second. We see a
lot of that in the United States. It's Aaron Mullen. Aaron,
You've given me so much time. I want to finish
with this. If you don't mind, you've got to come
back more often and stop stopped talking me.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Never I know.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Let me, let me, let me ask you this. You're
not Jewish. I'm not Jewish. I'm a Christian person.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I think you're a Christian I am, Katherine.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Why do you fight so hard for Israel? Why are
you okay but being called as I mean? Why is
it that you put yourself in the front and center
to defend these people who's religion you are not a
part of?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Joe, do you know what the best example of why is? No,
tell me what happened on Sunday. Yes, what happened on
Sunday is the best example of my why. And not
just because I'm a human being who cares deeply about
human beings from all different backgrounds, culture's religions. That could
(29:30):
have been me there with my daughter. That they don't
care who they kill, and I knew from day dot
that this kind of evil was not just trying to
destroy the Jews. So yes, I would stand with any
minority group of people who are being attacked by terrorists.
But my stance is also a selfish one, because I
am smart enough to understand that when they drive a
car into a Christmas market in Brussels, they ain't checking
(29:53):
if you're wearing a cross or a star, whether you're Hindu,
whether you're Muslim. They don't care. They want to destroy
us all. So I could see straight away that this
kind of evil ideology was coming for us all. They
might start with the Jews, they might derive more joy
from killing the Jews, but they are happy to wipe
us all out, and that's part of their plan. So
(30:14):
you've got to stand with the side of good versus evil,
and Joe if my country can't look at what happened
on Sunday, because I looked at October seven, and I
knew straight away which side I was on. It was
not complex, and it's not the side of guards and
children versus Israel. They're on the side of Israel. The
guards and children. In my mind, they're innocent children born.
The enemy to them and to Israel is the same.
(30:36):
It is Islamic extremism. I knew straight away the side
of good versus evil. If Australians can't look at what
happened on Sunday, and if the Western world can't look
at that and say which group do I align with more?
A group of innocent people celebrating their faith, peacefully trying
to protect each other, people jumping on top of other people,
giving their lives for others. Or two cowards on a bridge,
(30:59):
male adults with shotguns with rifles shooting people off like animals.
If you can't determine which side more alignce with your values,
then screw you. You don't belong in any Western country.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
It's my why as well eron. I think that's why
we hit it off so well and why we get
along so well. I'll finish with this something you know,
but I'll say for the audience's sake as well. On
nine to eleven A lot of Muslims died that day
in those buildings. It didn't matter that there were Jews, Muslims, Christians, atheists,
none of that mattered. Hindu Buddhists, it didn't matter. What
mattered was they wanted mass casualties to scare us into submission.
(31:34):
Something you want allowed to happen to you, something I
want allowed to happen to me. And by the way,
when they kill Muslims, they say it's okay. They're going
to go straight to the right hand of Allah. It's
okay if they die during our mission, which of course
is nuts. As you said, it's not sane to allow
this to happen and not raise your voice and say something.
You've got a major voice, not only in Australia, but
you're globally. You're growing every single day. Thank you for
(31:55):
being out in front of this, and thank you so
much for your friendship and for coming on today.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
You are a legend, and I know that your audience
loves you already. But if I can just say, I've
met so many people in this industry over twenty years
in media, you are one of the most genuine, passionate,
best broadcasters I've encountered, and the most supportive of other broadcasters.
And let me tell your audience that is rare. That
is extremely rare. So you should value this bloke that
(32:20):
you get to listen to every day. They're very lucky
to have you as am I as ore. We thank you, Joe.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Honored so much erin thank you so much. I can
say exactly the same. Your way, people like you could
easily blow somebody like me off and the fact that
you're mutually supportive not only of me, but of other
broadcasters as well. It just means that you are so
secure in what it is that you're doing and you
want more people to do it the right way as well.
Erin thanks a million, make rest your voice for a
second of your kennel and come back on against you.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Okay, I'd love to.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You're amazing, all right. That's it for Unshaken and Not
Afraid with Joe PAGs this time, back with another one
very soon. Make sure make sure you subscribe right here.
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