December 13, 2025 • 32 mins
Former Deputy Assistant to the Secretary of Defense and U.S. Army combat helicopter pilot Amber Smith joins Joe Pags for a blunt, inside look at what nearly broke America’s military.
Smith worked inside the Pentagon and is the author of Unfit to Fight. In this conversation, she explains how ideological mandates replaced merit, how military standards were quietly lowered, and why leadership failures put national security at risk.
Joe and Amber discuss:
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How “woke” ideology spread inside the military
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Why recruitment and retention collapsed
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How standards were lowered instead of enforced
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Why unit cohesion and trust were damaged
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What must change to restore a true fighting force
This is a serious, eye-opening conversation about military readiness, leadership, and the future of America’s armed forces — from someone who was on the inside.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When there's been a massive sea change, and how the
(00:02):
military is handled, how the military works. So we're seeing
recruitment through the roof now since President Trump has been back,
and since the Secretary of War Pete Hegseth has been
at the helm. But before that it was awfully woke.
How do we know, Well, we found out a lot
of information during the Biden administration. And also this young
lady speaking out, Amber Smith, former deputy Assistant to the
Secretary of Defense Iraq and Afghan Army combat helicopter pilot.
(00:26):
Honored to have you on and also an author of
a book called Unfit to Fied, Amber, How are you
good to see it?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It's great to see you, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Really glad to have you on. It was no more
than a year ago, no less than a year ago,
i should say, where we had the Secretary of Defense disappeared,
the second in charge didn't know what was going on.
We had drag shows on army bases. We had people
who were joining the Army and the Navy, the Air Force,
Marines just to get transgender surgery. It was a woke time,
wasn't it. I mean awfully woke.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
It was a woke time. It was a mess, and
it was incredibly dangerous to our military and to our
national security as a whole. To have leadership not only
sort of be okay with this, it was an endorsement
from the Joe Biden administration. The leadership that we saw
under Secretary Austin really put the Pentagon in a downward spiral.
(01:20):
And thankfully, as you mentioned, since President Trump has come
back into office and we've seen a complete leadership shift
from you know, focusing on those wogue policies to turning
back to a Department of War that is going to
focus on Winnie, and we are already seeing the policies
(01:41):
change to ensure that happens.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It's Amber Smith. Go get our book. It's called Unfit
to Fight. How woke policies are destroying our military.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
This is out now, right, it is out now. It
came out last summer.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, go and get it. Go find out exactly what
she's talking about. It was probably way worse than we,
as the American public saw. But I always ask this
very rudimentary question when I have somebody new on that
I don't know very well. I know it was woke.
I know the policies were disgusting. I know that that
it was purposeful. It wasn't just by accident, and the
simple question is always this, why what did they gain?
(02:14):
Why do this?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well? I think it was an ideology push. It was
something that we saw start in the Obama administration sort
of quietly under the radar, and I think that it
wasn't just the Department of Defense at the time. You
look at it across you know, Department of Education, You
look at it across the health in the health and
(02:39):
medical industry, some of the woke changes that were happening
in there, and I think that for I think the
American people kind of focused in on those different industries
and sort of thought that the military, uh wouldn't be
as affected by some of these woke policies. You know,
people often of the war fighter, you know, enlisting from
(03:02):
Red States, patriotic Americans that aren't going to buy into
this woke nonsense that we saw being pushed down their throats.
But instead it was started to be taught to cadets
at West Point, at the Air Force Academy, to those young,
new impressionable leaders who were then going to come into
the military as second lieutenants and lead with that woke mindset,
(03:28):
and we saw that with this cultural shift that was
really pushing this, and so it started sort of as
this silent push in the Obama administration, and there were
some policies that were public that, you know, we saw
with the change of women being allowed to serve in
(03:48):
combat positions, with the transgender policies that came out of
the Obama administration that the Trump administration then tried to
sort of neutralize when they got into office, and then
obviously went into full swing once Biden took office.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's Amber Smith, former Deputy Assistant to the Secretary of Defense,
or book is called Unfit to Fight. How woke policies
are destroying our military. My wife and I are watching
the show called Special Forces and other Celebrity. Special Forces
is not as tough as the original series out of
the UK. I'm not sure if you watch that, but
it really does show that it really doesn't matter what
your gender is if you can do the job. That's
(04:27):
not the way we were doing it for four years
under Biden, right, I mean, they were enticing people to
come in who weren't strong enough, who weren't willing enough,
who weren't fit enough. People who were coming in because
they wanted to get the train surgery or to have
the drag shows or whatever. I would believe, and I
want you to answer, I'm not entering for you, but
I would think that you and I agree that if
a woman can do the physical, strenuous exercise and carry
(04:52):
the equipment and be in the front lines with a man,
that's perfectly fine as long as you can do that,
as long as it's not for a diversity push, right.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, And it should be based on merit, bottom line merit,
you know, equal standards. You're there because you're the best
person for the job. You pass every test male female,
if you're the best person for the job. But unfortunately
we saw with what with how Biden tried to implement
this policy that it wasn't as black and white as that.
(05:24):
If you read in my book, I have an entire
chapter on this, and if President Obama laid out or
along with Secretary Ash Carter, they laid out seven sort
of steps to this policy that commanders across the military
were supposed to follow. And if you read those seven
(05:47):
seven categories, you would be like, oh, this makes sense,
This absolutely sounds good on paper. This is going to
be implemented the right way. The problem was culturally, people
had already started to buy into this wokeness. So you
had commanders in the military being like well, and like
(06:08):
you mentioned, even in special forces or special operations different
units inside of there saying, well, I want to be
the first commander to have a female in this very
specialized special operations unit, so I can put that as
a bullet point for when I go to get promoted.
It looks like it makes me stand out as the
(06:29):
first commander to have a female do that. So you
saw that type of behavior from leaders in the military.
You saw some leaders wanting to ensure that a female
had a battle buddy. So instead of just one, say
one was there based on merit, then we wanted to
make sure that, you know, she wasn't there by herself,
(06:49):
and for safety reasons, she needed to have another female there.
But maybe there wasn't another female good enough, So we
had to now just sort of been the rules a
little bit. We saw the Secretary of the Army, you know,
Congress tried to say that the physical fitness test needed
to be gender neutral and age neutral, and so the
(07:10):
Army instituted this new physical fitness standard, and they found
that women could not in alarming numbers could like most
women could not meet these physical standards. And so what
did they do. Instead of being like, Okay, well maybe
we need to reevaluate who's here, right, instead, the Secretary
(07:34):
of the Army said, this is gonna hurt recruitment for
women and retention for women. So instead of enforcing the standard,
we're now going to lower the standard. And that's exactly
what they did. So those types of policy decisions and
the leaders that we had at the time were absolutely
horrible to the military and especially you know, we heard
(07:55):
about the recruitment crisis that was going on under the
Biden administration, but what wasn't talked about as much was
the retention crisis was getting those stellar leaders inside the
military to stick around and stay. They were done with
the policies. And I can't tell you how many good
(08:17):
patriotic American leaders in the military that were like, I'm done,
I'm out. I don't want to take battalion command, I
don't want to take this leadership position that's being offered
to me that I thought I was working my whole
career towards. And so instead they decided to go back
into the civilian world. So it is I am very
(08:38):
happy with what I'm seeing in terms of these policies
being turned around out of the Department of War. It's
absolutely refreshing to see after all of my research that
I've done, both for my book and then personal experience
from working in the earring at the Pentagon. So the
ship is turning back in the right direction, thankfully, and
(09:00):
I'm glad to see that this is changing, especially for
our national security.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
It's Amber Smith, former Deputy Assistant to the Secretary of Defense,
also a helicopter pilot. For God Sex, take me having
a helicopter sometime, Amber, that'd be amazing. Her book is
called Unfit to Fight. How woke policies are destroying our military.
You know, there's so much there that you just said,
and I just want to put this out there, and
I say it consistently because it's true. Men are in
general stronger than women. Men are in general able to
(09:27):
carry heavier things than women can. Are there women out
there that can do it, absolutely, But as you said,
they have to be able to meet the meritorious standard.
They have to be able to I think Pete Hegseth
said it recently. He said, we're going to go back
to the male standard, which is thus standard. And if
you can do it, then you can do it. And
I mentioned this all the time. I work out a
lot of six, one, two forty. I can outlift almost
(09:49):
every woman on the planet. Now, are there some that
are weightlifters and so on that could probably? Probably, But
when it comes to the physical aspect. Plus, I'm going
to die younger than my wife will. I mean, it's
just that's the way the averages go. So why can't
we notice that, realize that. And when you get a
woman that can pass, and as you said, there are
some that do, why would you give her somebody inferior
next to her that will cause her death or cause
(10:11):
her capture when you want people of the same standard,
let's just close her eyes to gender. The fact that
the public was into this woke garbage didn't make us
better war fighters because we were adding more trains or
women or whatever the category was. At what point? At
what point was it when the president wanted guess I'm
answering my own question. At what point did we wake
(10:33):
up and say, holy crap, we will not win a war?
If we keep doing it this way. Was it the
inauguration of Trump again, of anything that I just said
about men versus women. I mean, that's that's common sense,
isn't it. That's nature.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
No, it's common sense, but it's it actually, like to
take it a step further, it's more than just sort
of the failures when it comes to luring physical standard.
What it also comes with is having you know, not
equal standards, basically like what we've seen where we had
(11:10):
a gender standard versus a mission standard. A mission standard
very important. That's what you were just talking about with
the Secretary of War. When you have a gender standard,
it hurts morale and it damages trust between a team
because when you have some people on a team or
in a unit because they were the best person for
(11:32):
the job and they worked hard, they did what they
needed to do, and they got selected for a position,
then you have a you know, say, a handful of
other people who are there, but they had to do
different push up standards, different two mile run standards. They
had to whatever the difference may be. So they're there,
(11:52):
and so the people who met the standard are saying, well,
I had to work really hard to get here, and
you're here because you're a different gendered and we have
to meet a certain quota, even though they're not allowed
to call them quotas. That's the loophole. They call them
targets instead of quotas to stay legal. So anyway, that
(12:13):
now you have this divide right within a unit where
you're supposed to have unit cohesion, where you work together
and blend as a team. And then, like I said,
that trust, you want to make sure that you can
trust your teammates to be there to pull you out
of a helicopter that crashed, of a vehicle that rolled
over of you know, when the pressure is on and
the bullets are flying, that everybody physically can do the
(12:37):
same thing, and you can have that trust right there.
So that's the thing we'll admit further.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
When you walk in, if there's standards, You're right, I'm
sorry for interrupting me. You've really got my brain work
in here. When you walk in. If I walk into
to the platoon, the battalion, the barracks, whatever, and I
see you there, I don't want to think to myself,
is she one that checked the box? I want to
think to myself, she's going to kick some ass here,
And that's what you're.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Talking exactly, exactly, And that's why I say whenever I
get talks about females in combat and females in the military.
As someone who was in the military for over seven
and a half years in a very male dominant environment,
a helicopter that still had very few female pilots flying it,
(13:23):
you know women want to be there. It makes women's
lives easier when they are there because of merit, because
they don't want people walking into that room and saying,
is she here because she's a female, or is she
here because she's the best person for the job and
also happens to be female. And that's what happens when
(13:46):
you have those separate standards and women have to end
up working you know, double what they would if those
standards were the same.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
It is Ambersmith. Go get her book. It's called Unfit
to Fight. How woke policy are destroying our military? So
for those four years you walked in, you didn't know,
you had no idea. I also know that in your
book you talk about how failure somehow got you promoted
during that period of time. How did that work?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Well, I believe you're referring to me talking about senior
military generals and admirals, and a culture that was sort
of created where it was called failing up. So instead
of especially we saw it with the COVID vaccine commanders
not wanting to do their own research and just sort
(14:35):
of falling in line because everyone was terrified, instead of
standing on principle and understanding and order. And so you
saw a lot of military leaderships just learning to sort
of shut up and go along with some of these
woke policies that they knew were likely hurting the military.
(14:58):
But sadly, it was a culture where if they wanted
to get promoted, they knew that they either needed to
get in line with these policies and sort of be
the enforcers of this uh, or they would be forced out.
And sadly, that was a culture that created and it
(15:19):
it also became a culture of the untouchables once you
got to a certain level that was much more political,
probably an O six and above, a colonel and above,
and then into the general officer corps. It was a
political job and the military should not be political at
(15:39):
any level. UH. And so just as what we saw
with General Millie and him, you know, stepping outside his
right and left limits, including thinking that it was his
responsibility to call his Chinese counterpart and let him know.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
That's shocking.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
He would warn him of any sort of strike that
was going to happen, which is just absolutely insane to
me that that was not looked into further. Well, here
the senior military yes officer operating that way. It was
(16:26):
just absolutely insane to me.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Part Marshall could be treason, could be seditioned, all that stuff.
It should have been on the table when he did that.
That blew my mind that we knew that we did
not have the military we thought we had. Hopefully we're
on the way back. It's amber Smith get her book,
it's called Unfit to Fight. She's also at amber Smith
USA over on X. Let me ask you about about
how long it took to get it? So woke eight
(16:47):
years under Obama, four years under Biden, so it was
really Obama on steroids as Biden was licking ice cream.
How long is it going to take to fix it?
It's not fixed yet. I think heg Seth is saying
and doing the right things. I think that President Trump
is saying and doing the right things. But you can't
snap your fingers and undo all that was that was done.
How do you fix it? How long do you think
it'll take?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, you hit the nail on the head is that
it's not only just a policy problem. We've seen some
of that policy with executive orders change you know, quickly
on paper. So you have the policy problem, which is
a much quicker fix, and then you have the cultural problem, which,
as you mentioned, is going to take time. So, yes,
(17:29):
it took years for this ideology to infiltrate the military.
It's going to take as long, if not twice as
long to correct it because it's systemic within the military
culture at this point, Like I said, they had generations
of young military leaders being told and being taught that
(17:52):
this is normal, this is the way this is. If
you read in my book, some of the examples are
just insane that taxpayer dollars were used to teach West
Point cadets and Air Force cadets some of the craziest
things that you have heard about. And so that part
(18:14):
is going to take some time. It's it's you know,
hopefully we have another Republican administration that can continue on
after President Trump to continue to fix some of these
problems because it is not going to be a quick fix.
It's going to be incredibly hard. And the Pentagon is
(18:34):
the biggest bureaucracy that we have, the Department of Wars
the biggest bureaucracy that we have. And so it's not
just changing a military culture, it's working with all of
the careers that know that the careers meaning the gs,
civilians that have a career working at the Pentagon and
aren't politicals, they're not just there for the administration that
(18:55):
know that they can wait out some of these policies.
So that's a problem as well. So they're doing a
good job though they're trying to fix some of this
twelve years. It's going to be an uphill battle.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
But well, let me ask you this. I think I
know the answer, and I'm pretty sure I do, but
I want I want you to give me you know,
a better answer than I know in my head. How
big a role does morale play and turning this entire
thing around. I'm guessing the morale was in the dumps
when they were pushing all this trends and woke and
just strange diversity and DEI garbage. I'm guessing morale plays
(19:32):
a huge role. How big a deal is it in
the military in getting back to what the mission originally was,
which is being great war fighters.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Well, that's like, that's a multi front problem. So you have,
like you said, the diversity, the DEI, the woke problems
that were being shoved down everybody's throat, and they're like
most war fighters are like, I'm a patriotic American who
loves my country and I want to be here to
serve and you know, ensure that the world's a better
(20:03):
place for our children. And then they have all of
this crap being shoved down their throats and they're like it.
After a while, that starts to seriously damage morale. Then
you have the standards, the standards things that we talked about,
where that's damaging as well because it's like, why am
I working so hard to be here when you guys
(20:24):
are just there's this double standard that exists. Of course,
that's going to damage morale as well. And then something
that was happening early on in the Obama administration, probably
even a little bit towards the end of the Bush administration,
was allowing lawyers to fight our wars for us and
(20:46):
really tying the hands of the war fighter out on
the battlefield, so to the point where they were having
people were concerned for their own safety and when the
bullets are flying the like, it is unfair to the warfighter.
It's setting them up for failure when they have to
hesitate because they're scared of their own legal system. If
(21:09):
they are going to have you know, eyes turned on them,
that suddenly they're the bad guy. And sadly, we saw
that happen a lot. You know, of course, there's u
CMJ that soldiers have to follow, and the majority of
them do in combat, good soldiers that do their job.
(21:32):
But you talk to anybody that served in the later
part of the post nine to eleven wars, they felt it.
They felt that the lawyer's side of things breathing down
their neck every time they went out. And I think
that was just such a disservice to do to our
service members for them to feel that their leadership would
(21:53):
not have their back when something rough happened in combat. Which,
by the way, let me remind everyone, it's combat. It's
not a black and white world. It's crazy things happen,
it's intense, and there's a gazillion things happening at once,
and so I'm over the Monday morning quarterbacks when it
(22:13):
comes to combat, which we're seeing today with Washington, DC
going after leadership at the Department of War right now.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I want to get into that in earnest in a second,
it's Amber Smith. Go get our book called Unfit to Fight.
How woke policies are destroying our military came out this
past summer. When you were speaking. All I can think
of was the rules of engagement in Afghanistan, which we're discussing. Basically,
we were a police force. Shouldn't have been. We're war fighters.
We should be winning war. It's not policing an area.
And also we had targets on our backs. If I
(22:44):
recalled during Obama, literally the rules of engagement were you
could not go after the bad guys anymore. You had
to have somebody attack you first and then maybe you
can go and get them afterwards if you got the
okay from somebody at scentcom or something. Am I right
in that what you were saying was referring almost directly
to that, in that we had no intention of winning
the Afghanistan war. We just didn't. We were just there
(23:04):
in force. People were being maimed and killed on our side,
and we were not allowed to prosecute the war? Am
I right about that?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
You are correct? And it was infuriating because the American
soldiers should always know that they that their leaders are
going to give them the best training, equipment and resources
to be able to go out in a combat environment
and accomplish their mission. And just off of the things
that you mentioned with the ROE and the restrictions that
(23:35):
they were under, it was like, why are we sending
troops outside the wire if you're setting them up for
failure and they're not allowed to do their job. You're
putting them in harm's way, Yes, for no reason, and
that to me is awful to do.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
To Amber, why do you think why do you think
we stayed there so long? Was it just about making
money for the outside corporations and so on? I don't
want to get into conspiracy theories, but there was no
reason to continue Afghanistan for that long if we had
no intention of winning.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
It's the war machine. Once you start, you can't stop.
And I think that if the military should always be
given a clear and concise mission and in any state,
this is what it looks like to win, right, So
we could have absolutely gone in and accomplished the mission
(24:27):
and done what we needed to do. But then once
Obama came in and it was that mission became somewhat
ambiguous and people were like, well, what are we doing here?
After Osama bin Laden was killed, people are like, okay,
what is the you know, thirty thousand foot mission here?
(24:48):
And you talk to a lot of soldiers they didn't
know anymore, and that creates a little bit of doubt.
That's also not good for the warfighter in a combat zone,
Like you want the warfighter to know why they're there,
why it's important that they're there, and what they are
contributing to winning the war. And sadly it drug on
(25:08):
for so long with poor leadership that they couldn't answer
that question anymore.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
We literally could we could have question years, right, could.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
We could have? Because after.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Let go?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, after after been Laden was killed, nobody could answer
that question anymore. And you had generals going on Capitol
Hill who were testifying, you know, giving this like rose
tinted glasses version of Afghanistan and what they were accomplishing
and who they were training. In all actuality, none of
(25:45):
it was real. We were wasting billions of dollars and
you know, into the trillions when when you include Iraq
and Afghanistan and then the the VA taking care of
veterans in the aftermath, and it's like what to show
for it? You know, we left billions of dollars of
(26:05):
equipment behind when we left, and you know, the Taliban
is in power. So if there's a reason to use
our military, yeah, then that's important. That's the job of
the military. But I do think that the military has
to have a clear and concise mission, and leadership owes
(26:26):
that to them, and they should be given the opportunity
to go seek out in this destroy the enemy that
their mission is, that their mission involves, and that wasn't
happening towards the end of Afghanistan.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
It's all very sick. It's Amber Smith. Go follow her
at Ambersmith USA over on x Unfit to Fight is
the name of the book. I've been remiss to not
to not at least get a few minutes with you
on this, And thanks for all the time. Today we
are blowing up people who are in speed boats loaded
to the brim with cocaine. We're blowing them up as
they head north to drop all that stuff up on
(27:05):
our shores and Democrats are taking the side of the
drug runners as somebody who's got this extensive military history,
as somebody who wants to know what the mission is.
And I think the mission in that one is let's
stop the bad guys that are bringing drugs to America.
Is there any question in your mind that this is
not a war crime, as the Democrats are suggesting, by
killing bad guys bringing drugs to our shores.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
It's such a distraction, I think Washington. I think the Washington,
DC Democrats have finally found someone that they hate more
than the President, and that's now the Secretary of War,
so they're going after him with everything they can. When
the President from the get go has said that stopping
drugs from coming into this country and annually killing hundreds
(27:47):
of thousands of Americans is one of his top priorities,
so it should come as no surprise that he is
using He designated these groups as terror organizations and he's
now going after them. It is completely legal, and it
is keeping drugs that are killing Americans off of our streets.
I think it's disgusting that the Democrats are siding with
(28:12):
drug cartels and these drug conners over American lives.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
They literally because I guess they bombed a boat once
and then two guys survived it. They literally said we
should have gone down via the Geneva Convention, offered them
safe harbor or some other crap. And then they're saying
these are men with families and so on. The real
story was the guy survived it, got back on the boat,
and we're calling another boat to come and help them
(28:39):
continue the mission, and we stopped the mission. I mean, Imbra,
why are we having this discussion? Not you and me,
I love this, but why are we having this discussion
in Washington in Congress where we literally are watching people,
as you said, and as I've said, taking the side
of drug cartels over the Department of War. How did
we get here? I mean, it sounds like an awfully
philosophical question, but there had to have been a path
(29:01):
to where these people feel safe saying the drug dealer
is the good guy, or a Brego Garcia who's an
MS thirteen guy, he's the good guy somehow, Or the
people in Washington, DC who are carjacking, they're the good
guys and the National Guards shouldn't be there. Do you
have any thoughts on how we got here as a nation.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Well, I think it's really sad that the Democrats would
play politics with American lives. They, like I said earlier,
they have such significant trumpt arrangement syndrome that they can't
even appreciate something he does when he is saving American
(29:39):
lives in the tens and thousands. We're not just talking
about like one or two here. They say that every
time they blow up one of those drug boats, it
saves twenty five thousand American lives. Why is that a problem.
It's what The President's number one job when he is
in office is to text the American people, and that's
(30:01):
exactly what he's doing, and he's using the resources that
he has available to him to ensure that happens. America
is a better place and a safer place when we
don't have drugs in this system. And whether it's they're
coming across the southern border or they're coming in on
these speedboats, the delivery doesn't matter. They're still bringing drugs
(30:26):
in and it still needs to stop.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Last question for you, Amber, and thanks for all the
time today. Go follow her at Amber Smith USA Unfit
to Fight. How woke policies are destroying our military is
the name of the book. Are you fearful about how
many terrorists may have come across the border during Biden?
Is it in the hundreds, is it in the thousands?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
What do you think about that it's in the thousands.
And it is absolutely terrifying to know that there are
known terrorists in the thousands just sitting here in America
waiting for the right time. And if there's one thing
(31:04):
that we know and should have learned from nine to
eleven is that they can be patient when they need
to be and they have every intent of attacking America
from the inside. And so I hope that you know
every resource that we have right now is being used
(31:25):
to track these terrorists down that are already here and
planning and waiting to attack Americans.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I'm with you, Amber, It's a warning that everybody needs
to hear. For sure. Go get the book called Unfit
to Fight, How woke policies are destroying our military? It
is Amber Smith. Go follow her at Ambersmith USA. Thanks
a million for all you've done, Thanks for your sacrifice
of the country, and please come on the show again.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Thanks for having me. Absolutely appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
You very welcome. We're back after this. Actually, this is
it for this episode of Unshaken and Afraid with Joe
Pegs another one to drop very soon.
When there's been a massive sea change, and how the
(00:02):
military is handled, how the military works. So we're seeing
recruitment through the roof now since President Trump has been back,
and since the Secretary of War Pete Hegseth has been
at the helm. But before that it was awfully woke.
How do we know, Well, we found out a lot
of information during the Biden administration. And also this young
lady speaking out, Amber Smith, former deputy Assistant to the
Secretary of Defense Iraq and Afghan Army combat helicopter pilot.
(00:26):
Honored to have you on and also an author of
a book called Unfit to Fied, Amber, How are you
good to see it?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It's great to see you, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Really glad to have you on. It was no more
than a year ago, no less than a year ago,
i should say, where we had the Secretary of Defense disappeared,
the second in charge didn't know what was going on.
We had drag shows on army bases. We had people
who were joining the Army and the Navy, the Air Force,
Marines just to get transgender surgery. It was a woke time,
wasn't it. I mean awfully woke.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
It was a woke time. It was a mess, and
it was incredibly dangerous to our military and to our
national security as a whole. To have leadership not only
sort of be okay with this, it was an endorsement
from the Joe Biden administration. The leadership that we saw
under Secretary Austin really put the Pentagon in a downward spiral.
(01:20):
And thankfully, as you mentioned, since President Trump has come
back into office and we've seen a complete leadership shift
from you know, focusing on those wogue policies to turning
back to a Department of War that is going to
focus on Winnie, and we are already seeing the policies
(01:41):
change to ensure that happens.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It's Amber Smith. Go get our book. It's called Unfit
to Fight. How woke policies are destroying our military.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
This is out now, right, it is out now. It
came out last summer.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, go and get it. Go find out exactly what
she's talking about. It was probably way worse than we,
as the American public saw. But I always ask this
very rudimentary question when I have somebody new on that
I don't know very well. I know it was woke.
I know the policies were disgusting. I know that that
it was purposeful. It wasn't just by accident, and the
simple question is always this, why what did they gain?
(02:14):
Why do this?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well? I think it was an ideology push. It was
something that we saw start in the Obama administration sort
of quietly under the radar, and I think that it
wasn't just the Department of Defense at the time. You
look at it across you know, Department of Education, You
look at it across the health in the health and
(02:39):
medical industry, some of the woke changes that were happening
in there, and I think that for I think the
American people kind of focused in on those different industries
and sort of thought that the military, uh wouldn't be
as affected by some of these woke policies. You know,
people often of the war fighter, you know, enlisting from
(03:02):
Red States, patriotic Americans that aren't going to buy into
this woke nonsense that we saw being pushed down their throats.
But instead it was started to be taught to cadets
at West Point, at the Air Force Academy, to those young,
new impressionable leaders who were then going to come into
the military as second lieutenants and lead with that woke mindset,
(03:28):
and we saw that with this cultural shift that was
really pushing this, and so it started sort of as
this silent push in the Obama administration, and there were
some policies that were public that, you know, we saw
with the change of women being allowed to serve in
(03:48):
combat positions, with the transgender policies that came out of
the Obama administration that the Trump administration then tried to
sort of neutralize when they got into office, and then
obviously went into full swing once Biden took office.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's Amber Smith, former Deputy Assistant to the Secretary of Defense,
or book is called Unfit to Fight. How woke policies
are destroying our military. My wife and I are watching
the show called Special Forces and other Celebrity. Special Forces
is not as tough as the original series out of
the UK. I'm not sure if you watch that, but
it really does show that it really doesn't matter what
your gender is if you can do the job. That's
(04:27):
not the way we were doing it for four years
under Biden, right, I mean, they were enticing people to
come in who weren't strong enough, who weren't willing enough,
who weren't fit enough. People who were coming in because
they wanted to get the train surgery or to have
the drag shows or whatever. I would believe, and I
want you to answer, I'm not entering for you, but
I would think that you and I agree that if
a woman can do the physical, strenuous exercise and carry
(04:52):
the equipment and be in the front lines with a man,
that's perfectly fine as long as you can do that,
as long as it's not for a diversity push, right.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, And it should be based on merit, bottom line merit,
you know, equal standards. You're there because you're the best
person for the job. You pass every test male female,
if you're the best person for the job. But unfortunately
we saw with what with how Biden tried to implement
this policy that it wasn't as black and white as that.
(05:24):
If you read in my book, I have an entire
chapter on this, and if President Obama laid out or
along with Secretary Ash Carter, they laid out seven sort
of steps to this policy that commanders across the military
were supposed to follow. And if you read those seven
(05:47):
seven categories, you would be like, oh, this makes sense,
This absolutely sounds good on paper. This is going to
be implemented the right way. The problem was culturally, people
had already started to buy into this wokeness. So you
had commanders in the military being like well, and like
(06:08):
you mentioned, even in special forces or special operations different
units inside of there saying, well, I want to be
the first commander to have a female in this very
specialized special operations unit, so I can put that as
a bullet point for when I go to get promoted.
It looks like it makes me stand out as the
(06:29):
first commander to have a female do that. So you
saw that type of behavior from leaders in the military.
You saw some leaders wanting to ensure that a female
had a battle buddy. So instead of just one, say
one was there based on merit, then we wanted to
make sure that, you know, she wasn't there by herself,
(06:49):
and for safety reasons, she needed to have another female there.
But maybe there wasn't another female good enough, So we
had to now just sort of been the rules a
little bit. We saw the Secretary of the Army, you know,
Congress tried to say that the physical fitness test needed
to be gender neutral and age neutral, and so the
(07:10):
Army instituted this new physical fitness standard, and they found
that women could not in alarming numbers could like most
women could not meet these physical standards. And so what
did they do. Instead of being like, Okay, well maybe
we need to reevaluate who's here, right, instead, the Secretary
(07:34):
of the Army said, this is gonna hurt recruitment for
women and retention for women. So instead of enforcing the standard,
we're now going to lower the standard. And that's exactly
what they did. So those types of policy decisions and
the leaders that we had at the time were absolutely
horrible to the military and especially you know, we heard
(07:55):
about the recruitment crisis that was going on under the
Biden administration, but what wasn't talked about as much was
the retention crisis was getting those stellar leaders inside the
military to stick around and stay. They were done with
the policies. And I can't tell you how many good
(08:17):
patriotic American leaders in the military that were like, I'm done,
I'm out. I don't want to take battalion command, I
don't want to take this leadership position that's being offered
to me that I thought I was working my whole
career towards. And so instead they decided to go back
into the civilian world. So it is I am very
(08:38):
happy with what I'm seeing in terms of these policies
being turned around out of the Department of War. It's
absolutely refreshing to see after all of my research that
I've done, both for my book and then personal experience
from working in the earring at the Pentagon. So the
ship is turning back in the right direction, thankfully, and
(09:00):
I'm glad to see that this is changing, especially for
our national security.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
It's Amber Smith, former Deputy Assistant to the Secretary of Defense,
also a helicopter pilot. For God Sex, take me having
a helicopter sometime, Amber, that'd be amazing. Her book is
called Unfit to Fight. How woke policies are destroying our military.
You know, there's so much there that you just said,
and I just want to put this out there, and
I say it consistently because it's true. Men are in
general stronger than women. Men are in general able to
(09:27):
carry heavier things than women can. Are there women out
there that can do it, absolutely, But as you said,
they have to be able to meet the meritorious standard.
They have to be able to I think Pete Hegseth
said it recently. He said, we're going to go back
to the male standard, which is thus standard. And if
you can do it, then you can do it. And
I mentioned this all the time. I work out a
lot of six, one, two forty. I can outlift almost
(09:49):
every woman on the planet. Now, are there some that
are weightlifters and so on that could probably? Probably, But
when it comes to the physical aspect. Plus, I'm going
to die younger than my wife will. I mean, it's
just that's the way the averages go. So why can't
we notice that, realize that. And when you get a
woman that can pass, and as you said, there are
some that do, why would you give her somebody inferior
next to her that will cause her death or cause
(10:11):
her capture when you want people of the same standard,
let's just close her eyes to gender. The fact that
the public was into this woke garbage didn't make us
better war fighters because we were adding more trains or
women or whatever the category was. At what point? At
what point was it when the president wanted guess I'm
answering my own question. At what point did we wake
(10:33):
up and say, holy crap, we will not win a war?
If we keep doing it this way. Was it the
inauguration of Trump again, of anything that I just said
about men versus women. I mean, that's that's common sense,
isn't it. That's nature.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
No, it's common sense, but it's it actually, like to
take it a step further, it's more than just sort
of the failures when it comes to luring physical standard.
What it also comes with is having you know, not
equal standards, basically like what we've seen where we had
(11:10):
a gender standard versus a mission standard. A mission standard
very important. That's what you were just talking about with
the Secretary of War. When you have a gender standard,
it hurts morale and it damages trust between a team
because when you have some people on a team or
in a unit because they were the best person for
(11:32):
the job and they worked hard, they did what they
needed to do, and they got selected for a position,
then you have a you know, say, a handful of
other people who are there, but they had to do
different push up standards, different two mile run standards. They
had to whatever the difference may be. So they're there,
(11:52):
and so the people who met the standard are saying, well,
I had to work really hard to get here, and
you're here because you're a different gendered and we have
to meet a certain quota, even though they're not allowed
to call them quotas. That's the loophole. They call them
targets instead of quotas to stay legal. So anyway, that
(12:13):
now you have this divide right within a unit where
you're supposed to have unit cohesion, where you work together
and blend as a team. And then, like I said,
that trust, you want to make sure that you can
trust your teammates to be there to pull you out
of a helicopter that crashed, of a vehicle that rolled
over of you know, when the pressure is on and
the bullets are flying, that everybody physically can do the
(12:37):
same thing, and you can have that trust right there.
So that's the thing we'll admit further.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
When you walk in, if there's standards, You're right, I'm
sorry for interrupting me. You've really got my brain work
in here. When you walk in. If I walk into
to the platoon, the battalion, the barracks, whatever, and I
see you there, I don't want to think to myself,
is she one that checked the box? I want to
think to myself, she's going to kick some ass here,
And that's what you're.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Talking exactly, exactly, And that's why I say whenever I
get talks about females in combat and females in the military.
As someone who was in the military for over seven
and a half years in a very male dominant environment,
a helicopter that still had very few female pilots flying it,
(13:23):
you know women want to be there. It makes women's
lives easier when they are there because of merit, because
they don't want people walking into that room and saying,
is she here because she's a female, or is she
here because she's the best person for the job and
also happens to be female. And that's what happens when
(13:46):
you have those separate standards and women have to end
up working you know, double what they would if those
standards were the same.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
It is Ambersmith. Go get her book. It's called Unfit
to Fight. How woke policy are destroying our military? So
for those four years you walked in, you didn't know,
you had no idea. I also know that in your
book you talk about how failure somehow got you promoted
during that period of time. How did that work?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Well, I believe you're referring to me talking about senior
military generals and admirals, and a culture that was sort
of created where it was called failing up. So instead
of especially we saw it with the COVID vaccine commanders
not wanting to do their own research and just sort
(14:35):
of falling in line because everyone was terrified, instead of
standing on principle and understanding and order. And so you
saw a lot of military leaderships just learning to sort
of shut up and go along with some of these
woke policies that they knew were likely hurting the military.
(14:58):
But sadly, it was a culture where if they wanted
to get promoted, they knew that they either needed to
get in line with these policies and sort of be
the enforcers of this uh, or they would be forced out.
And sadly, that was a culture that created and it
(15:19):
it also became a culture of the untouchables once you
got to a certain level that was much more political,
probably an O six and above, a colonel and above,
and then into the general officer corps. It was a
political job and the military should not be political at
(15:39):
any level. UH. And so just as what we saw
with General Millie and him, you know, stepping outside his
right and left limits, including thinking that it was his
responsibility to call his Chinese counterpart and let him know.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
That's shocking.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
He would warn him of any sort of strike that
was going to happen, which is just absolutely insane to
me that that was not looked into further. Well, here
the senior military yes officer operating that way. It was
(16:26):
just absolutely insane to me.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Part Marshall could be treason, could be seditioned, all that stuff.
It should have been on the table when he did that.
That blew my mind that we knew that we did
not have the military we thought we had. Hopefully we're
on the way back. It's amber Smith get her book,
it's called Unfit to Fight. She's also at amber Smith
USA over on X. Let me ask you about about
how long it took to get it? So woke eight
(16:47):
years under Obama, four years under Biden, so it was
really Obama on steroids as Biden was licking ice cream.
How long is it going to take to fix it?
It's not fixed yet. I think heg Seth is saying
and doing the right things. I think that President Trump
is saying and doing the right things. But you can't
snap your fingers and undo all that was that was done.
How do you fix it? How long do you think
it'll take?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, you hit the nail on the head is that
it's not only just a policy problem. We've seen some
of that policy with executive orders change you know, quickly
on paper. So you have the policy problem, which is
a much quicker fix, and then you have the cultural problem, which,
as you mentioned, is going to take time. So, yes,
(17:29):
it took years for this ideology to infiltrate the military.
It's going to take as long, if not twice as
long to correct it because it's systemic within the military
culture at this point, Like I said, they had generations
of young military leaders being told and being taught that
(17:52):
this is normal, this is the way this is. If
you read in my book, some of the examples are
just insane that taxpayer dollars were used to teach West
Point cadets and Air Force cadets some of the craziest
things that you have heard about. And so that part
(18:14):
is going to take some time. It's it's you know,
hopefully we have another Republican administration that can continue on
after President Trump to continue to fix some of these
problems because it is not going to be a quick fix.
It's going to be incredibly hard. And the Pentagon is
(18:34):
the biggest bureaucracy that we have, the Department of Wars
the biggest bureaucracy that we have. And so it's not
just changing a military culture, it's working with all of
the careers that know that the careers meaning the gs,
civilians that have a career working at the Pentagon and
aren't politicals, they're not just there for the administration that
(18:55):
know that they can wait out some of these policies.
So that's a problem as well. So they're doing a
good job though they're trying to fix some of this
twelve years. It's going to be an uphill battle.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
But well, let me ask you this. I think I
know the answer, and I'm pretty sure I do, but
I want I want you to give me you know,
a better answer than I know in my head. How
big a role does morale play and turning this entire
thing around. I'm guessing the morale was in the dumps
when they were pushing all this trends and woke and
just strange diversity and DEI garbage. I'm guessing morale plays
(19:32):
a huge role. How big a deal is it in
the military in getting back to what the mission originally was,
which is being great war fighters.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Well, that's like, that's a multi front problem. So you have,
like you said, the diversity, the DEI, the woke problems
that were being shoved down everybody's throat, and they're like
most war fighters are like, I'm a patriotic American who
loves my country and I want to be here to
serve and you know, ensure that the world's a better
(20:03):
place for our children. And then they have all of
this crap being shoved down their throats and they're like it.
After a while, that starts to seriously damage morale. Then
you have the standards, the standards things that we talked about,
where that's damaging as well because it's like, why am
I working so hard to be here when you guys
(20:24):
are just there's this double standard that exists. Of course,
that's going to damage morale as well. And then something
that was happening early on in the Obama administration, probably
even a little bit towards the end of the Bush administration,
was allowing lawyers to fight our wars for us and
(20:46):
really tying the hands of the war fighter out on
the battlefield, so to the point where they were having
people were concerned for their own safety and when the
bullets are flying the like, it is unfair to the warfighter.
It's setting them up for failure when they have to
hesitate because they're scared of their own legal system. If
(21:09):
they are going to have you know, eyes turned on them,
that suddenly they're the bad guy. And sadly, we saw
that happen a lot. You know, of course, there's u
CMJ that soldiers have to follow, and the majority of
them do in combat, good soldiers that do their job.
(21:32):
But you talk to anybody that served in the later
part of the post nine to eleven wars, they felt it.
They felt that the lawyer's side of things breathing down
their neck every time they went out. And I think
that was just such a disservice to do to our
service members for them to feel that their leadership would
(21:53):
not have their back when something rough happened in combat. Which,
by the way, let me remind everyone, it's combat. It's
not a black and white world. It's crazy things happen,
it's intense, and there's a gazillion things happening at once,
and so I'm over the Monday morning quarterbacks when it
(22:13):
comes to combat, which we're seeing today with Washington, DC
going after leadership at the Department of War right now.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I want to get into that in earnest in a second,
it's Amber Smith. Go get our book called Unfit to Fight.
How woke policies are destroying our military came out this
past summer. When you were speaking. All I can think
of was the rules of engagement in Afghanistan, which we're discussing. Basically,
we were a police force. Shouldn't have been. We're war fighters.
We should be winning war. It's not policing an area.
And also we had targets on our backs. If I
(22:44):
recalled during Obama, literally the rules of engagement were you
could not go after the bad guys anymore. You had
to have somebody attack you first and then maybe you
can go and get them afterwards if you got the
okay from somebody at scentcom or something. Am I right
in that what you were saying was referring almost directly
to that, in that we had no intention of winning
the Afghanistan war. We just didn't. We were just there
(23:04):
in force. People were being maimed and killed on our side,
and we were not allowed to prosecute the war? Am
I right about that?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
You are correct? And it was infuriating because the American
soldiers should always know that they that their leaders are
going to give them the best training, equipment and resources
to be able to go out in a combat environment
and accomplish their mission. And just off of the things
that you mentioned with the ROE and the restrictions that
(23:35):
they were under, it was like, why are we sending
troops outside the wire if you're setting them up for
failure and they're not allowed to do their job. You're
putting them in harm's way, Yes, for no reason, and
that to me is awful to do.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
To Amber, why do you think why do you think
we stayed there so long? Was it just about making
money for the outside corporations and so on? I don't
want to get into conspiracy theories, but there was no
reason to continue Afghanistan for that long if we had
no intention of winning.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
It's the war machine. Once you start, you can't stop.
And I think that if the military should always be
given a clear and concise mission and in any state,
this is what it looks like to win, right, So
we could have absolutely gone in and accomplished the mission
(24:27):
and done what we needed to do. But then once
Obama came in and it was that mission became somewhat
ambiguous and people were like, well, what are we doing here?
After Osama bin Laden was killed, people are like, okay,
what is the you know, thirty thousand foot mission here?
(24:48):
And you talk to a lot of soldiers they didn't
know anymore, and that creates a little bit of doubt.
That's also not good for the warfighter in a combat zone,
Like you want the warfighter to know why they're there,
why it's important that they're there, and what they are
contributing to winning the war. And sadly it drug on
(25:08):
for so long with poor leadership that they couldn't answer
that question anymore.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
We literally could we could have question years, right, could.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
We could have? Because after.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Let go?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, after after been Laden was killed, nobody could answer
that question anymore. And you had generals going on Capitol
Hill who were testifying, you know, giving this like rose
tinted glasses version of Afghanistan and what they were accomplishing
and who they were training. In all actuality, none of
(25:45):
it was real. We were wasting billions of dollars and
you know, into the trillions when when you include Iraq
and Afghanistan and then the the VA taking care of
veterans in the aftermath, and it's like what to show
for it? You know, we left billions of dollars of
(26:05):
equipment behind when we left, and you know, the Taliban
is in power. So if there's a reason to use
our military, yeah, then that's important. That's the job of
the military. But I do think that the military has
to have a clear and concise mission, and leadership owes
(26:26):
that to them, and they should be given the opportunity
to go seek out in this destroy the enemy that
their mission is, that their mission involves, and that wasn't
happening towards the end of Afghanistan.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
It's all very sick. It's Amber Smith. Go follow her
at Ambersmith USA over on x Unfit to Fight is
the name of the book. I've been remiss to not
to not at least get a few minutes with you
on this, And thanks for all the time. Today we
are blowing up people who are in speed boats loaded
to the brim with cocaine. We're blowing them up as
they head north to drop all that stuff up on
(27:05):
our shores and Democrats are taking the side of the
drug runners as somebody who's got this extensive military history,
as somebody who wants to know what the mission is.
And I think the mission in that one is let's
stop the bad guys that are bringing drugs to America.
Is there any question in your mind that this is
not a war crime, as the Democrats are suggesting, by
killing bad guys bringing drugs to our shores.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
It's such a distraction, I think Washington. I think the Washington,
DC Democrats have finally found someone that they hate more
than the President, and that's now the Secretary of War,
so they're going after him with everything they can. When
the President from the get go has said that stopping
drugs from coming into this country and annually killing hundreds
(27:47):
of thousands of Americans is one of his top priorities,
so it should come as no surprise that he is
using He designated these groups as terror organizations and he's
now going after them. It is completely legal, and it
is keeping drugs that are killing Americans off of our streets.
I think it's disgusting that the Democrats are siding with
(28:12):
drug cartels and these drug conners over American lives.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
They literally because I guess they bombed a boat once
and then two guys survived it. They literally said we
should have gone down via the Geneva Convention, offered them
safe harbor or some other crap. And then they're saying
these are men with families and so on. The real
story was the guy survived it, got back on the boat,
and we're calling another boat to come and help them
(28:39):
continue the mission, and we stopped the mission. I mean, Imbra,
why are we having this discussion? Not you and me,
I love this, but why are we having this discussion
in Washington in Congress where we literally are watching people,
as you said, and as I've said, taking the side
of drug cartels over the Department of War. How did
we get here? I mean, it sounds like an awfully
philosophical question, but there had to have been a path
(29:01):
to where these people feel safe saying the drug dealer
is the good guy, or a Brego Garcia who's an
MS thirteen guy, he's the good guy somehow, Or the
people in Washington, DC who are carjacking, they're the good
guys and the National Guards shouldn't be there. Do you
have any thoughts on how we got here as a nation.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Well, I think it's really sad that the Democrats would
play politics with American lives. They, like I said earlier,
they have such significant trumpt arrangement syndrome that they can't
even appreciate something he does when he is saving American
(29:39):
lives in the tens and thousands. We're not just talking
about like one or two here. They say that every
time they blow up one of those drug boats, it
saves twenty five thousand American lives. Why is that a problem.
It's what The President's number one job when he is
in office is to text the American people, and that's
(30:01):
exactly what he's doing, and he's using the resources that
he has available to him to ensure that happens. America
is a better place and a safer place when we
don't have drugs in this system. And whether it's they're
coming across the southern border or they're coming in on
these speedboats, the delivery doesn't matter. They're still bringing drugs
(30:26):
in and it still needs to stop.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Last question for you, Amber, and thanks for all the
time today. Go follow her at Amber Smith USA Unfit
to Fight. How woke policies are destroying our military is
the name of the book. Are you fearful about how
many terrorists may have come across the border during Biden?
Is it in the hundreds, is it in the thousands?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
What do you think about that it's in the thousands.
And it is absolutely terrifying to know that there are
known terrorists in the thousands just sitting here in America
waiting for the right time. And if there's one thing
(31:04):
that we know and should have learned from nine to
eleven is that they can be patient when they need
to be and they have every intent of attacking America
from the inside. And so I hope that you know
every resource that we have right now is being used
(31:25):
to track these terrorists down that are already here and
planning and waiting to attack Americans.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I'm with you, Amber, It's a warning that everybody needs
to hear. For sure. Go get the book called Unfit
to Fight, How woke policies are destroying our military? It
is Amber Smith. Go follow her at Ambersmith USA. Thanks
a million for all you've done, Thanks for your sacrifice
of the country, and please come on the show again.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Thanks for having me. Absolutely appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
You very welcome. We're back after this. Actually, this is
it for this episode of Unshaken and Afraid with Joe
Pegs another one to drop very soon.
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