December 16, 2025 • 30 mins
Senator Ron Johnson (R–WI) joins Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags to explain why health insurance costs keep rising — even after years of promises that Obamacare would make care cheaper and more accessible.
Johnson breaks down how government subsidies distorted the insurance market, why premiums and deductibles exploded, and how insurance companies quietly benefited while families paid more. He explains why many policies exist only “on paper,” how incentives were flipped upside down, and what real reform would actually look like.
This is a clear, no-nonsense conversation about how the system works, who it serves, and why Americans continue to lose — regardless of what politicians promised.
🎧 Watch the full video version and more interviews at joepags.com/UUJP
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Who's telling the truth. You're getting two very distinct sides
when it comes to healthcare in the United States of America.
They can't both be right. Somebody's not telling the truth.
If your health insurance premiums keep on going up. This
interview is going to explain exactly why, and it's not
what they're telling you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Straighten it all out and be very direct about it,
very easy to understand. Senator Ron Johnson, Republican the Great
State of Wisconsin joins me to break down how Obamacare
quietly turned health insurance into a cash machine for insurance
companies paid for by you guessed at you. Health insurance
companies didn't complain much in nine and o ten, Remember
why not? Because the government was making us by something
(00:39):
that they sell. And now the ACA subsidies that everybody's
arguing about, the health insurance companies stand to lose a
lot of money. And again, those subsidies aren't helping you,
they're helping the insurance companies. One insurance company's stock rose
over eleven hundred percent since Obamacare. We're going to tell
you exactly who that was. And premiums are up one
hundred and seventy percent. This effects we tirees, families, people
(01:01):
about to hit Medicare age. Is at you, some facing
thirty thousand dollars a year in premiums. Keep it right
here because once you understand the system, you will never
ever look at healthcare the same way again. Flooding around
social media, I see a bunch of people on the left,
especially in Congress, that are posting a bunch of videos
that are Republicans had all this time to fix the
ACA subsidies, and they literally want your premiums to go up,
(01:24):
and they want to take your healthcare away because they
just don't like people, which doesn't make any sense. We've
got Ron Johnson on Juna loves people. It's a US senator,
great state of Wisconsin. Ron, How are you good to
see again?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm doing well, but pretty frustrated by ask how successful
in their allies in the media have been at blaming
Republicans for what is the fault of Obamacare?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Well, Obamacare was pushed on us.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
He lied.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
We know that. He said, if you like your doctor,
keep your doctor, Lie, like your plan, keep your plan.
Lie you're going to save twenty five hundred a year.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Lie.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
In fact, everything has exploded as you and I expected
it would, because when you take over one sixth of
the economy and give it to the government, it's probably
not going to be successful. So how do we do
a better job? Listen, I am all ears, you're a
great business mind. How do we do a better job
of making the American people understand we're in this position
because of the Democrats?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, first of all, you have to go through the
problem solving process. First step is admitting you have a problem.
Democrats aren't. They're just trying to mask over the failure
that Obamacare is. You have to properly define it. So
let's start by properly defining it. People have to understand
that Obamacare primarily impacts the roughly twenty four million people
(02:39):
we can talk about that. It's probably six million of
those are phantom accounts, but we'll just go twenty four
million people change and then single able bodied adults on
Medicaid expansion, the Obamacare expansion of Medicaid Obamacare buy and
large does not impact people on Medicare, Employer's posited Care,
(03:00):
normal Medicaid and VA. Okay, the particularly what we're talking
about now is this enhanced subs It has no impact
on that whatsoever. Now O Bomacare has had impacted all
of those areas because it's led to a dramatic consolidation
within the health care industry. Insurance, hospital associations, PBMs, drug
I mean drug companies getting a huge consolidation. And you
(03:23):
can see where the money's flowing by the increase of
stock prices. United health Care the largest health insurance company.
Their stock has increased seventy seven percent since the passages
of Obamacare. Okay, so you see the money's just flowing
in there. Paces are getting screwed, insurance companies getting richer,
Everybody in that health care industry is getting richer. I
(03:44):
understand there's not one incentive. In fact, every incentive in
our current health care industry is for prices to go up.
Everybody's getting a cut, everybody's making percentage. The best analogy
in that is, if you're a realtort and you may
contemp sent off the sale, you'd much rather sell that
one hundred thousand dollars house for a million bucks, right,
(04:06):
so you can try and talk to the customer into
paying a million dollars for that one hundred thousand dollars house.
That's happening throughout Hell's healthcare. Okay, now, let's talk exactly
about these in hand substies. These were passed by Democrats
solely during the pandemic as a temporary increased in hand
subsidy over normal obombingcare substas. They were scheduled to expire
(04:30):
by Democrats. The put them has had no hand in this.
They sched them to expire at the end of twenty
twenty five. Now, the only people of three hundred and
forty million Americans affected by these in hand subsidies are
the twenty four million. It's really eighteen million, because six
million those are probably phantom. Right, So we'll say roughly
the twenty million people on these changes, we'll go to
(04:53):
eighteen million. Of the eighteen million real people on these changes,
more than sixteen million. They just revert to Obamacare's original subsidies,
which which means instead of a maximum of being expected
to pay eight and a half cent of your salary
if you're at forum set of poverty line, now you
have to pay nine to a half per cent before
a substate kick cent and gud that's variable up and down.
(05:15):
That from zero to four percent of poverty the people
losing substas are above four hundred percent of poverty line.
They were never given a subsidy under normal Obamacare. They
were given a substy by Democrats during the pandemic as
a temporary relief. Okay, one point six billion people. That
that's the people dramatically impacted by the loss of the
(05:39):
hand substies. And honestly, I feel sympathetic with that group
because many of these people during the pandemic were lured
into retirement by that subsidy. Their premiums have skyrocketed because
of Obamacare. Because of the government's interference to the marketplace.
Some of these individuals close close to medicare age. They
(05:59):
don't call right for Medicare. They're literally facing premiums Joe
over thirty thousand dollars a year because of Obamacare. The
normal market would never have premiums that high. This is
all caused by a bombcare, which the result is I
feel sympathetic with that group. You can literally address that
group for a couple of billion dollars a year, not
(06:20):
hundreds of billions. A couple billion dollars. I'm happy to
do that. I'm actually talking to Democrats centers who are
a little more reasonable about this, who in exchange for
taking care of that group would put in strong anti
fraud provisions. The problem is Democrats and their allies and
the media have so twisted this debate again, getting Americans
(06:41):
to believe that because Republicans won't act, everybody's going to
experience increased costs. No, the extent that you are experiencing
increased costs and healthcare and you will be it's because
of Obamacare and the consolidation, the destruction of that individual market.
It's Obamacare causing that. The other thing in Republicans they're
doing as we're just saying, no, we're not willing to
(07:02):
perpetuate the massive fraud. Remember that six million people I'm
talking about the phantom accounts. Yeah, that represents about twenty
to thirty billion dollars of fraud each year. Wow. So,
because because the enhanced SUBSI has created these no premium policies,
you've got about six million fandom policies. Unscrupulous agents have
signed people up without their knowledge. They get the commissioned,
(07:24):
the insurance companies get the premiums and they're no claim.
No claim policies have doubled from about twenty per cent
to forty percent. So insurance companies are making out like bandits.
They're agents, are making commissions signing up people that will
make no claims because they don't even know they have
the insurance. They've pocketed the insurance premium, and the American
(07:45):
taxpayers left holding the bag. And anybody who wants to
just a clean extent show of those hand subsis is
willing to perpetuate that massive fraud. And this is separate
from the Somalian fraud on Medicaid that's crying in.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Minnesota, right, it's Ron Johnson, US Senator, great state of Wisconsin.
I appreciate you spelling it out like you just did.
I want people watching and listening to understand there was
no pushback when Obamacare was being shoved on our throats
in twenty two, thousand and nine and twenty ten. There
was no pushback by the insurance companies. That should have
been a bell going off over our heads. Holy mackerel,
(08:19):
Why isn't the insurance company complaining that the federal governments
taking over medical care? Well, because they all got paid
big time. Like you said, one thousand percent increase in profits.
That's a good thing to shut up about. And this
one the ACA subsidies, that doesn't go to the individual.
It goes to the insurance companies to keep the individual.
And it's the one point six that you're talking about
(08:39):
that will be gravely affected by this. But the insurance
companies are still being quiet. In fact, they're probably lobbying
to keep the two hundred and fifty billion dollars a
year or whatever the hell it happens to be in
these in these enhanced subsidies. Again, great job explaining that
just now. I'm going to put this out everywhere, but
the people watching and listening other shows, I need to
get this out to them as well. They have to
understand and correct me if I'm wrong. These subsidies, as
(09:01):
you said, put in place by the Democrats, sunset the
end of this year by the Democrats. But they enhance
the pockets and the bank accounts of the insurance companies.
They're not individual right.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Correct. Again, it's called a premium task credit, but it
doesn't flow through the taxpayer, goes right to the insurance company.
Right because insurance the insurance company didn't squawk about this
because they realized that the federal government is the easiest
consumer to fleece. Yes, and they've been fleecing them ever
since obama Care was in twenty fourteen. Again they're making
(09:35):
out like Bandits of the top seven insurance carriers that
the lowest increase in stock price is something like four
hundred percent. Okay, it's amazing the Unite Health support the
stock price. Again, investors aren't stupid. They see the money
flowing from the American tax player into the coffers of
the insurance companies and their shareholders. So yeah, they're not
(09:57):
complaining at all. But again, and it's so important to
point out the enhanced subsidies. The vast majority of those
people losing the enhanced substies just referred to Obamacare's original substeas.
If that's not good enough, blame Obama, blame the Democrats.
But again, that whole Rube Goldberg contraption Obamacare, that is
(10:21):
what's caused premiums of skyrocket. It's hard to, you know,
definitive advanswer on this, but one analysis state by state
is premiums have increased on the exchanges on average one
hundred and sixty nine percent since the information implementation of Obamacare.
Inflation's up thirty nine percent, so premiums up four point
three times sirrate of inflation since implementation of Obamacare. That's
(10:46):
because of Obamacare. It's not because anything Republicans did. This
is Democrats Rube Goldberg's scheme. This a miserable failure, and
all Democrats want to do is to throw one hundreds
of billions of dollars to mask what a miserable failure
Obamacare has been. And we're not even talking about, for example,
disabled children being displaced by able bodied adults in terms
(11:09):
of getting things like home health care and other Medicaid services.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Some of that was actually going on adult daycares in Minnesota.
Part of that fraud there, and there is a lot
of fraud. I'm glad that you're going after it, but Ron,
I've got to ask you to be very direct with
those who are watching listening who think they're talking about
raising my premiums. Because everybody now believes their premiums are
going up, You and I in this segment will not
be able to convince them that their premiums aren't going up.
(11:35):
So for those who think something's changing for them on
December thirty first or into January first, what is the replacement?
Because that's always the retort, Okay, well, what do you
Republicans want to do about it? What does Trump want
to do about it? Because now we're hearing fix Obamacare,
when for years we were told we're going to get
rid of Obamacare. So what is the fix for those
who think they're going to be affected? How are you
(11:57):
if you had the red button and you pressed it
and all the Democrats agreed, Ron Johnson, what would that
look like? What's the fix?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
That's what I've been saying since I got elected. We
need to repair the damages down to Biomeacare, transition to
a system that works. What's the root causer problems? The
third party payer system, the fact that nobody pays for
their health care services or their providers. You pay insurance,
you pay your taxes, but nobody, not the doctors, not
(12:24):
the nurses, not the patients, know what anything costs, and
we don't care because you're not paying for it directly.
So the solution is bring consumersm back into healthcare, bring
the benefits of free market competition back into healthcare. And again,
I competed in the private sect for thirty years. Because
I had to compete, my prices were lower, my quality
(12:44):
was higher, my customer service was higher. That's what we
want in health care, that's what the free market provides.
But because we've driven consumers out of there, we're not
getting any of it. Here's an example. Rick Scott had
a great hearing in his aging committee. Had a surgeon
from Oklahoma that set up a cash only surgical center.
(13:05):
It attracted a lot of top flight surgeons. They had
to figure out what they're gonna charge for these things,
because again surgeons didn't know in the passes, just the
bean counters in the back room. So the surgeons got
together set up the surgical center to term their own prices.
You know, here's the supplies we needs, here's much, here's
how long it's gonna take this running. We charge for
my surgeronyes what we can charge for nurses. Their prices
(13:27):
end up being ten percent a tenth of what the
surgeries cost in hospitals. That is the that's the vision
of what we could save if we brought consumers back
into the equation, if we actually made a competitive system.
Now understand all the providers they've been making out like bandits.
They're not gonna like this system. They're not gonna want
(13:48):
to compete right now, they've gotten not a complete monopoly,
but they have all these oligopolies. Kind of wink with
not going yeah, guys again, I'm gonna make much more
a lot more money off of tenth thousand dollars hospital
room or a ten thousand dollars surgery than I am off.
I mean, think, look at your hospital bill. Sometime I
was on a recent radio show. The host had a
(14:10):
friend who had a normal delivery. Normal delivery, it costs
fifty one thousand dollars. Take a look at your hospital bill.
What do they charge you for a hospital room? And
then compare that to what you pay for in a
you know, Hampton suite or the highest, you know, the
(14:32):
five star hotel. It's a fraction of a hospital charge.
Why it's because they get away with it. It's because you,
as a consumer, you're not paying for it. You're not
asking the question. You're not going to doctor's office and
going how much is the fifteen minute is going to cost?
How much is that procedure is going to cost? How
much does that test? You never asked do I really
need that test? I just had that last week? Why
(14:53):
do I need another one? If if we were real consumers,
we'd be asking those questions, but right now we're just sheep.
We're just going in there. Well, got to have another test.
I'm not paying for it. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Does funding h HSAS put me back in charge. I've
got an HSA, but I still don't know what the
what the things cost? I mean, how does that put
the ball back in my quarter or or put the
onus of I want to use you, or I'd rather
use this guy if it's cheaper or whatever. How do
I start paying attention to that other than saying, tell
me how much it costs.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So, because Americans now pretty well are in the habit
of not having to pay for things, you know, HSA's
is the vehicle you need to get them transitioning to
paying for things. But you have to give them start
paying for things. So we've got a transition where the insurance.
By the way, Obamacare policies right now before a bombacare,
those are called cast traffic care plans, and they were
(15:45):
dirt treat cheap. Obamacare offers cast traphic dirt cast trophic plans,
but they're grotesquely expensive. So you go to insurance that's
actually insurance like a car. You don't get first al
of coverage on a car. You pay for the dinks,
you pay for the maintenance right, you pay for the
all changes totally, and you only have insurance case get
(16:06):
an accident. Health insurance ought to be the same way.
So the consumers are actually paying for that doctor visit,
they're paying for those procedures, they're paying for those tests,
doing it out of HSA again because people are saying, well,
can't pay for that yourself, so someos got to fund
their HSA as their employers. By the way, I was
doing that back before I ran for your office. We
were funding hsas to get our employees to pay more
(16:28):
for that to start demanding the price transparency. There been
playing places that have passed laws for price transparency, but
it doesn't make any difference. You can post it on
the wall, but as long as nobody's paying for the
out of their own pocket, they don't care. So you
have to make consumers pay for things out of their
own pocket. Be frugal. Set up those hssays. What you
(16:51):
don't spend during your working years can go to retirement funds.
So HSA's is going to be the transition vehicle.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Well would it makes sense right now. Is there enough
money right now to fund the HSA's for the one
point six million that will be directly affected that you mentioned,
Is that money less than the money spent on the
ACA subsidies.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Well, again, for that one point six million people, they're
just screwed because their close retirement, their premiums are just
grotesquely expensive, I mean over thirty thousand dollars, so funny
hsays for them probably wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.
You just have to figure out how do we subsize
those premiums until we can actually act a full blown
system that again, you're going to have to dismantle Obamacare.
(17:32):
It's such an awful Rube Goldberg design. Yeah, it's it
was set up, Joe, by the way, it was set
up to fail. It was set up to fail so
that we go to a single payer system, which would
be worse than what we've got.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
It is Ron Johnson, US Senator, Great State of Wisconsin.
Let's quickly talk about Minnesota fraud. Fraud in relation to
medicaid is involved in that. Also, let's feed the hungry,
which they never fed anybody allegedly. There were also adult
daycares that you alluded to earlier, we're talking about potentially
I had Liz Collin on recently from Alpha News in Minnesota.
(18:07):
We're talking about potentially five to eight to ten billion
dollars in fraud, and noybody's going wasn't me, wasn't me,
wasn't me? What do we know about that? And I mean,
is there any way that the governor of the state
didn't know that the money coming from the federal government
to assist people in that state to eat and to
get healthcare, that a lot of that money was being stolen?
Is there any way he didn't know?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
First of all, I think we know that the governor
and other Democratic elected officials were complicit in the fraud.
They absolutely looked the other way. Okay. The other thing
that I want to point out is the Somalians. Let's
face it, they're amateurs at this. It might have been
a pretty well honed scheme, but they're new to this country.
We made it so easy for them to commit this
(18:50):
fraud that they're able to do it on a massive scale.
Point being amateurs, and the reason I'm pointing out we
have all these non governmental organizations, we have all these programs,
we have all these states like California, they don't check
eligeabi ability. We make it so easy for people to
commit fraud against federal government programs that I think a
(19:13):
lot of people are And so I think the other
thing we can say quite confidently about Minnesota fraud, it
is just the tip of the iceberg, and and uncovering
this we're just scratching the surface.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
So we once we uncover exactly what happened in Minnesota,
is are we likely to find it in many other states,
like a lot of other states.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
If we look. And that's the problem is it's just
so massive. I mean, you actually need local prosecutors, you
need at you know, local elect officials. But again in
case of Minnesota, you got you got democratic jurisdictions. Their
main goal is to get more people dependent on government.
They're not looking for fraud. They want to sign people up.
They're the ones that aren't enforcing eligibility requirements. So in
(19:54):
certainly in democrat jurisdiction's got a real problem. I think
in Republican jurisdiction you probably have more of a crackdown.
But look at all unfair that's going to be, so
money will just continue to flow out to Democrat jurisdictions,
and again the whole point. For example, we may medicate
a dollar for dollar match by and large, so that
the states had to skin the game the Medicaid expansion
(20:17):
because of Obamacare, that's a one dollar to nine dollars match,
So states had every incentive to sign up people. They
don't care what frauds occurring because they're getting nine bucks
for every dollar they invest in the Medicaid expansion. For
those single body of dots, they're getting nine bucks from
the federal government. That's why they're assessing provider taxes and
(20:37):
provider fees, which just illegalized former fraud. It's a scam.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Ron Who you told me that you told me about
the nine to one before? Who the hell set that up?
Why would we ever do that and take eight dollars
nine dollars from the rest of the country and funnel
it into some blue state that we're not sure where
they're spending it. Why would it be what make it
two to one? Make it one to one? Why is
it nine to one?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Because Obamacare wanted to make more people depending on government
run healthcare. That's why. It's a simple answer. And they
knew once those people were there they knew that states
would start structuring their budgets around the nine to one match.
That's why we couldn't repeal it. I mean, we have
Republican states. There are very few states that didn't do
medicating Spanish. I think less than ten. Okay, so the
(21:23):
vast majority states, including Republican states, Again, why should they
be the schmucks that don't take part of the largest
of the federal government. So you literally have Republican states
as well as Democrat states whose budgets are based on
the nine to one match, who are are assessing six
percent provider fees. Then they throw on top of that
(21:45):
user fees. No, it's sick, Like I say, it's legalized fraud.
But they're all getting away with it, and it's spend
so endemic. It's now their budgets are structured out it.
During the one big beautiful Bill, you know, Rick Scott
had a great on this couldn't pass it, just would
I said, wanted to kick to anybody offtion. We said,
we're not going to register any more people onto that
(22:06):
nine to one match. If your state and you want
to provide Medicaid for able bodied adulls, you're going to
get the same match as we do for a disabled child.
I mean, think how sick that is for an able
bodied childless adult who should be working and getting health care.
From there, we're providing nine dollas for every Dallas State
spends on a single able bodied adult. We spend about
(22:27):
a dollars thirty three for every dollar they spend on
a disabled child. That's a sick notion right there. But
that's current law and we couldn't change it in the
one big beautiful bill.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
US senator from Wisconsin, it's Ron Johnson. Johnson dot Sendate
dot gov. Let me just finish on healthcare. So I
want to get into Jim troop as if we can,
but I just want to finish on healthcare. Of course,
illegal aliens are getting Medicaid. Of course they are. I
know they're not supposed to. I know it's against the
law to do that, but I think you and I
talked about it last time, and I want to actually
make sure that I have it right now. I get
(22:59):
anything wrong, tell me we are sending Medicaid funds from
the federal government to places like California. California is assessing
a tax on healthcare providers. The health care provider pays
the tax. When California gets the Medicaid money in, they
give them a tax refund. Now those healthcare providers are
providing healthcare to illegal aliens, but they're not using direct
(23:22):
Medicaid money. They're using their tax refund money to pay
for Medicare, that medical care for illegal aliens. So now
California can say not one illegal alien gets Medicaid dollars.
But what they're doing is they're paying back the taxes
that they charge the health care provider with the Medicaid dollars.
And the healthcare provider was incentivized then to give health
care to illegals. Did I get it wrong, Well, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
A master shell game money. Again. The main point is
for every Dallas State spends on an able body adult
from because of Obamacare Expanse the Medicaid Spanish and they
get nine dollars as a result, they've instituted provided taxes
provider fees which are not healthcare. But for every dollar
(24:06):
that they assess for that the you know, the hospital
and pays them, they get nine dollars in exchange from
the federal government. So against it's it's it's legalized fraud.
It's sick. It's cost of federal government. How does the
business dollars that we don't have.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Is there any doubt on your mind that some illegal
aliens in California are getting taxpayer paid for healthcare?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I mean, that's no doubt, no doubt in my mind
whatsoever of course they are. Again, let's face in California
is sanctuary state, sanctuary cities because they want all those
illegal immronts coming in for the census, you know, to vote,
you know, just be counted the censors to give them
more members of Congress. But they're gonna let them vote
(24:48):
and and and they're going to provide them all kinds
of benefits basically paid for by Uncle Sam.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
It's Ron Johnson us centered Great State of Wisconsin. I'm
not familiar with. Is it Jim troopis is that his name?
He was prosecuted for more? Former Trump lawyer, former Wisconsin judge.
What happened to this guy? What's going on with it now?
So for representing President Trump in the twenty twenty election.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Case, and there were all kinds of irregularities in Wisconsin
won't go through. I mean, irregularies need to look at
it is a very legitimate lawsuit again, he advised his
client to do what Kennedy did back in nineteen sixty
had an ultimate slave electors. Our Attorney general office said
there's nothing proper about there, and then later on now
(25:34):
our attorney general is has charged him with felony counts
of forgery, like there was a forgery. They've been persecuting him.
He's price spent over a million dollars. What was just
recently revealed they hired a forensic linguistic expert. The judge
overseeing the case they don't believe wrote the report or
wrote wrote the the you know, the verdict or not
(25:58):
the verdict, but the opinion, right, And they went to
that judge with his evidence and he wouldn't even give
them a hearing, which they're now saying is a civil
rights violation because he should have at least had a
hearing let them present the evidence that that judge didn't
write that opinion that really denied that it really would
have dismissed, should have dismissed the case. I mean, this
(26:18):
is a completely bogus case. But it's occurring in Dane County,
you know, an ultraliberal county in Wisconsin. That's where Madison
is and Judge Trupis is just being persecuted. I mean,
the process is the punishment. They just try to destroy
this man. He's an honorable person. He's just a high
integrity individual. Could have Trump's president. Trump, could have found
a better election lawyer. What he did was completely proper.
(26:41):
One of the reason is al Gord didn't have a
chance Supreme Court is he did not have an alternate
slave electors. Right, No, exactly right.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Well, well, Ron, I want to I'm going to make
a couple of points here that are very important for
those watching and listening. You know these things. Constitutionally, we
can absolutely challenge the results of an election. That's stupid
to pretend like we can't. Secondly, how do you somebody
with forgery? When he signed his own name or those
those electors, the alternate slate, they all signed their real names.
They weren't signing fake names. There was a case in
Arizona that I think is either thrown out or close
(27:10):
to being thrown out. Case in Georgia that's just about
out of here. Why's Wisconsin is still playing this game?
There is nothing illegal with me gathering a bunch of names,
putting them in an envelope just in case Mike Pence
would have said, let's check both envelopes that day. What
exactly is the illegality? I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
There is none. This is a grotesque miscarriage justice. But
it's being carried out in the ultraliberal courts with ultraliberal
judges in Dane County, Wisconsin. That's what's happening right here.
Is a travesty. It's a miscarriage of justice. And that's
one of the reason I wrote a letter to the
primary Justice to investigate this.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Now, what do you think they're going to because I
feel as though we're past twenty twenty. I think we're
past twenty twenty where we can actually say there are
some questions that have to be answered about that election.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
You know, the whole premise of Jack Frost or Jacksmith
artic Frost case. Yes, is it anybody involved in these
alms and say the electors do some something criminal. They're
families here. That's why cast is enormous, dragnant. It's all
about crippling the opposition party with publican party. Again, it's
all a gross miscarriage justice. So the just de partment
(28:17):
outrey vel it you use Wisconsin as the test case
to demonstrate exactly how really, just how corrupt the Jacksmith
investigation was. So I hope they get on board here
and fully investigate this.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I'm glad to let us know about it.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Ron.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I was not familiar with the Wisconsin case, been watching
the other cases, but without a doubt this guy didn't
do anything wrong. If it's exactly as you said, and
I trust that it is, it's our us. Senator Ron
Johnson Johnson dot Senate dot gov. Thanks so much for
the great explanations today. Let's do this again soon, Ron,
Thank you. Did you get all that?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Listen?
Speaker 1 (28:48):
It was a whole lot of information. But one thing
I'm sure about is that nobody in the media, even
the legacy media, even the right media, is really explaining
this as in depth as the explanation you used got
from Senator Ron. Jo and right here an unshaken and
un afraid with Joe Peggs again. Those subsidies are not
money in your pocket. You are not being helped out
by them. The insurance company is getting that money. The
(29:10):
insurance companies all want that money to continue, just like
they all wanted to Obamacare to happen. In nine and ten.
Why because the government literally telling people in the United States,
we will find you, or tax you, or cause you
to pay a fee if you don't go and buy
somebody's product. Can you imagine if you made a product,
whatever it happens to be, and the government forced everybody
to buy it, that'd be pretty good for you, right Well,
(29:32):
that's what the insurance companies are afraid of losing. Right now,
You've got to know exactly what's going on. By the way,
if you like this long form stuff, long interviews, really
explanatory interviews, also in depth news stories and more, make
sure that you follow right here. In fact, subscribe to
Unshaken and Unafraid with Joe Pegs. Subscribe to my channel.
You can then subscribe to the actual playlist. We've got
(29:53):
almost eighty interviews now. In fact, this was the eightieth.
I hope you enjoy him. I appreciate you hanging out.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
This is Unshaken and Unafraid with Joe Pegs.
Who's telling the truth. You're getting two very distinct sides
when it comes to healthcare in the United States of America.
They can't both be right. Somebody's not telling the truth.
If your health insurance premiums keep on going up. This
interview is going to explain exactly why, and it's not
what they're telling you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Straighten it all out and be very direct about it,
very easy to understand. Senator Ron Johnson, Republican the Great
State of Wisconsin joins me to break down how Obamacare
quietly turned health insurance into a cash machine for insurance
companies paid for by you guessed at you. Health insurance
companies didn't complain much in nine and o ten, Remember
why not? Because the government was making us by something
(00:39):
that they sell. And now the ACA subsidies that everybody's
arguing about, the health insurance companies stand to lose a
lot of money. And again, those subsidies aren't helping you,
they're helping the insurance companies. One insurance company's stock rose
over eleven hundred percent since Obamacare. We're going to tell
you exactly who that was. And premiums are up one
hundred and seventy percent. This effects we tirees, families, people
(01:01):
about to hit Medicare age. Is at you, some facing
thirty thousand dollars a year in premiums. Keep it right
here because once you understand the system, you will never
ever look at healthcare the same way again. Flooding around
social media, I see a bunch of people on the left,
especially in Congress, that are posting a bunch of videos
that are Republicans had all this time to fix the
ACA subsidies, and they literally want your premiums to go up,
(01:24):
and they want to take your healthcare away because they
just don't like people, which doesn't make any sense. We've
got Ron Johnson on Juna loves people. It's a US senator,
great state of Wisconsin. Ron, How are you good to
see again?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm doing well, but pretty frustrated by ask how successful
in their allies in the media have been at blaming
Republicans for what is the fault of Obamacare?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Well, Obamacare was pushed on us.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
He lied.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
We know that. He said, if you like your doctor,
keep your doctor, Lie, like your plan, keep your plan.
Lie you're going to save twenty five hundred a year.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Lie.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
In fact, everything has exploded as you and I expected
it would, because when you take over one sixth of
the economy and give it to the government, it's probably
not going to be successful. So how do we do
a better job? Listen, I am all ears, you're a
great business mind. How do we do a better job
of making the American people understand we're in this position
because of the Democrats?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, first of all, you have to go through the
problem solving process. First step is admitting you have a problem.
Democrats aren't. They're just trying to mask over the failure
that Obamacare is. You have to properly define it. So
let's start by properly defining it. People have to understand
that Obamacare primarily impacts the roughly twenty four million people
(02:39):
we can talk about that. It's probably six million of
those are phantom accounts, but we'll just go twenty four
million people change and then single able bodied adults on
Medicaid expansion, the Obamacare expansion of Medicaid Obamacare buy and
large does not impact people on Medicare, Employer's posited Care,
(03:00):
normal Medicaid and VA. Okay, the particularly what we're talking
about now is this enhanced subs It has no impact
on that whatsoever. Now O Bomacare has had impacted all
of those areas because it's led to a dramatic consolidation
within the health care industry. Insurance, hospital associations, PBMs, drug
I mean drug companies getting a huge consolidation. And you
(03:23):
can see where the money's flowing by the increase of
stock prices. United health Care the largest health insurance company.
Their stock has increased seventy seven percent since the passages
of Obamacare. Okay, so you see the money's just flowing
in there. Paces are getting screwed, insurance companies getting richer,
Everybody in that health care industry is getting richer. I
(03:44):
understand there's not one incentive. In fact, every incentive in
our current health care industry is for prices to go up.
Everybody's getting a cut, everybody's making percentage. The best analogy
in that is, if you're a realtort and you may
contemp sent off the sale, you'd much rather sell that
one hundred thousand dollars house for a million bucks, right,
(04:06):
so you can try and talk to the customer into
paying a million dollars for that one hundred thousand dollars house.
That's happening throughout Hell's healthcare. Okay, now, let's talk exactly
about these in hand substies. These were passed by Democrats
solely during the pandemic as a temporary increased in hand
subsidy over normal obombingcare substas. They were scheduled to expire
(04:30):
by Democrats. The put them has had no hand in this.
They sched them to expire at the end of twenty
twenty five. Now, the only people of three hundred and
forty million Americans affected by these in hand subsidies are
the twenty four million. It's really eighteen million, because six
million those are probably phantom. Right, So we'll say roughly
the twenty million people on these changes, we'll go to
(04:53):
eighteen million. Of the eighteen million real people on these changes,
more than sixteen million. They just revert to Obamacare's original subsidies,
which which means instead of a maximum of being expected
to pay eight and a half cent of your salary
if you're at forum set of poverty line, now you
have to pay nine to a half per cent before
a substate kick cent and gud that's variable up and down.
(05:15):
That from zero to four percent of poverty the people
losing substas are above four hundred percent of poverty line.
They were never given a subsidy under normal Obamacare. They
were given a substy by Democrats during the pandemic as
a temporary relief. Okay, one point six billion people. That
that's the people dramatically impacted by the loss of the
(05:39):
hand substies. And honestly, I feel sympathetic with that group
because many of these people during the pandemic were lured
into retirement by that subsidy. Their premiums have skyrocketed because
of Obamacare. Because of the government's interference to the marketplace.
Some of these individuals close close to medicare age. They
(05:59):
don't call right for Medicare. They're literally facing premiums Joe
over thirty thousand dollars a year because of Obamacare. The
normal market would never have premiums that high. This is
all caused by a bombcare, which the result is I
feel sympathetic with that group. You can literally address that
group for a couple of billion dollars a year, not
(06:20):
hundreds of billions. A couple billion dollars. I'm happy to
do that. I'm actually talking to Democrats centers who are
a little more reasonable about this, who in exchange for
taking care of that group would put in strong anti
fraud provisions. The problem is Democrats and their allies and
the media have so twisted this debate again, getting Americans
(06:41):
to believe that because Republicans won't act, everybody's going to
experience increased costs. No, the extent that you are experiencing
increased costs and healthcare and you will be it's because
of Obamacare and the consolidation, the destruction of that individual market.
It's Obamacare causing that. The other thing in Republicans they're
doing as we're just saying, no, we're not willing to
(07:02):
perpetuate the massive fraud. Remember that six million people I'm
talking about the phantom accounts. Yeah, that represents about twenty
to thirty billion dollars of fraud each year. Wow. So,
because because the enhanced SUBSI has created these no premium policies,
you've got about six million fandom policies. Unscrupulous agents have
signed people up without their knowledge. They get the commissioned,
(07:24):
the insurance companies get the premiums and they're no claim.
No claim policies have doubled from about twenty per cent
to forty percent. So insurance companies are making out like bandits.
They're agents, are making commissions signing up people that will
make no claims because they don't even know they have
the insurance. They've pocketed the insurance premium, and the American
(07:45):
taxpayers left holding the bag. And anybody who wants to
just a clean extent show of those hand subsis is
willing to perpetuate that massive fraud. And this is separate
from the Somalian fraud on Medicaid that's crying in.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Minnesota, right, it's Ron Johnson, US Senator, great state of Wisconsin.
I appreciate you spelling it out like you just did.
I want people watching and listening to understand there was
no pushback when Obamacare was being shoved on our throats
in twenty two, thousand and nine and twenty ten. There
was no pushback by the insurance companies. That should have
been a bell going off over our heads. Holy mackerel,
(08:19):
Why isn't the insurance company complaining that the federal governments
taking over medical care? Well, because they all got paid
big time. Like you said, one thousand percent increase in profits.
That's a good thing to shut up about. And this
one the ACA subsidies, that doesn't go to the individual.
It goes to the insurance companies to keep the individual.
And it's the one point six that you're talking about
(08:39):
that will be gravely affected by this. But the insurance
companies are still being quiet. In fact, they're probably lobbying
to keep the two hundred and fifty billion dollars a
year or whatever the hell it happens to be in
these in these enhanced subsidies. Again, great job explaining that
just now. I'm going to put this out everywhere, but
the people watching and listening other shows, I need to
get this out to them as well. They have to
understand and correct me if I'm wrong. These subsidies, as
(09:01):
you said, put in place by the Democrats, sunset the
end of this year by the Democrats. But they enhance
the pockets and the bank accounts of the insurance companies.
They're not individual right.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Correct. Again, it's called a premium task credit, but it
doesn't flow through the taxpayer, goes right to the insurance company.
Right because insurance the insurance company didn't squawk about this
because they realized that the federal government is the easiest
consumer to fleece. Yes, and they've been fleecing them ever
since obama Care was in twenty fourteen. Again they're making
(09:35):
out like Bandits of the top seven insurance carriers that
the lowest increase in stock price is something like four
hundred percent. Okay, it's amazing the Unite Health support the
stock price. Again, investors aren't stupid. They see the money
flowing from the American tax player into the coffers of
the insurance companies and their shareholders. So yeah, they're not
(09:57):
complaining at all. But again, and it's so important to
point out the enhanced subsidies. The vast majority of those
people losing the enhanced substies just referred to Obamacare's original substeas.
If that's not good enough, blame Obama, blame the Democrats.
But again, that whole Rube Goldberg contraption Obamacare, that is
(10:21):
what's caused premiums of skyrocket. It's hard to, you know,
definitive advanswer on this, but one analysis state by state
is premiums have increased on the exchanges on average one
hundred and sixty nine percent since the information implementation of Obamacare.
Inflation's up thirty nine percent, so premiums up four point
three times sirrate of inflation since implementation of Obamacare. That's
(10:46):
because of Obamacare. It's not because anything Republicans did. This
is Democrats Rube Goldberg's scheme. This a miserable failure, and
all Democrats want to do is to throw one hundreds
of billions of dollars to mask what a miserable failure
Obamacare has been. And we're not even talking about, for example,
disabled children being displaced by able bodied adults in terms
(11:09):
of getting things like home health care and other Medicaid services.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Some of that was actually going on adult daycares in Minnesota.
Part of that fraud there, and there is a lot
of fraud. I'm glad that you're going after it, but Ron,
I've got to ask you to be very direct with
those who are watching listening who think they're talking about
raising my premiums. Because everybody now believes their premiums are
going up, You and I in this segment will not
be able to convince them that their premiums aren't going up.
(11:35):
So for those who think something's changing for them on
December thirty first or into January first, what is the replacement?
Because that's always the retort, Okay, well, what do you
Republicans want to do about it? What does Trump want
to do about it? Because now we're hearing fix Obamacare,
when for years we were told we're going to get
rid of Obamacare. So what is the fix for those
who think they're going to be affected? How are you
(11:57):
if you had the red button and you pressed it
and all the Democrats agreed, Ron Johnson, what would that
look like? What's the fix?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
That's what I've been saying since I got elected. We
need to repair the damages down to Biomeacare, transition to
a system that works. What's the root causer problems? The
third party payer system, the fact that nobody pays for
their health care services or their providers. You pay insurance,
you pay your taxes, but nobody, not the doctors, not
(12:24):
the nurses, not the patients, know what anything costs, and
we don't care because you're not paying for it directly.
So the solution is bring consumersm back into healthcare, bring
the benefits of free market competition back into healthcare. And again,
I competed in the private sect for thirty years. Because
I had to compete, my prices were lower, my quality
(12:44):
was higher, my customer service was higher. That's what we
want in health care, that's what the free market provides.
But because we've driven consumers out of there, we're not
getting any of it. Here's an example. Rick Scott had
a great hearing in his aging committee. Had a surgeon
from Oklahoma that set up a cash only surgical center.
(13:05):
It attracted a lot of top flight surgeons. They had
to figure out what they're gonna charge for these things,
because again surgeons didn't know in the passes, just the
bean counters in the back room. So the surgeons got
together set up the surgical center to term their own prices.
You know, here's the supplies we needs, here's much, here's
how long it's gonna take this running. We charge for
my surgeronyes what we can charge for nurses. Their prices
(13:27):
end up being ten percent a tenth of what the
surgeries cost in hospitals. That is the that's the vision
of what we could save if we brought consumers back
into the equation, if we actually made a competitive system.
Now understand all the providers they've been making out like bandits.
They're not gonna like this system. They're not gonna want
(13:48):
to compete right now, they've gotten not a complete monopoly,
but they have all these oligopolies. Kind of wink with
not going yeah, guys again, I'm gonna make much more
a lot more money off of tenth thousand dollars hospital
room or a ten thousand dollars surgery than I am off.
I mean, think, look at your hospital bill. Sometime I
was on a recent radio show. The host had a
(14:10):
friend who had a normal delivery. Normal delivery, it costs
fifty one thousand dollars. Take a look at your hospital bill.
What do they charge you for a hospital room? And
then compare that to what you pay for in a
you know, Hampton suite or the highest, you know, the
(14:32):
five star hotel. It's a fraction of a hospital charge.
Why it's because they get away with it. It's because you,
as a consumer, you're not paying for it. You're not
asking the question. You're not going to doctor's office and
going how much is the fifteen minute is going to cost?
How much is that procedure is going to cost? How
much does that test? You never asked do I really
need that test? I just had that last week? Why
(14:53):
do I need another one? If if we were real consumers,
we'd be asking those questions, but right now we're just sheep.
We're just going in there. Well, got to have another test.
I'm not paying for it. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Does funding h HSAS put me back in charge. I've
got an HSA, but I still don't know what the
what the things cost? I mean, how does that put
the ball back in my quarter or or put the
onus of I want to use you, or I'd rather
use this guy if it's cheaper or whatever. How do
I start paying attention to that other than saying, tell
me how much it costs.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So, because Americans now pretty well are in the habit
of not having to pay for things, you know, HSA's
is the vehicle you need to get them transitioning to
paying for things. But you have to give them start
paying for things. So we've got a transition where the insurance.
By the way, Obamacare policies right now before a bombacare,
those are called cast traffic care plans, and they were
(15:45):
dirt treat cheap. Obamacare offers cast traphic dirt cast trophic plans,
but they're grotesquely expensive. So you go to insurance that's
actually insurance like a car. You don't get first al
of coverage on a car. You pay for the dinks,
you pay for the maintenance right, you pay for the
all changes totally, and you only have insurance case get
(16:06):
an accident. Health insurance ought to be the same way.
So the consumers are actually paying for that doctor visit,
they're paying for those procedures, they're paying for those tests,
doing it out of HSA again because people are saying, well,
can't pay for that yourself, so someos got to fund
their HSA as their employers. By the way, I was
doing that back before I ran for your office. We
were funding hsas to get our employees to pay more
(16:28):
for that to start demanding the price transparency. There been
playing places that have passed laws for price transparency, but
it doesn't make any difference. You can post it on
the wall, but as long as nobody's paying for the
out of their own pocket, they don't care. So you
have to make consumers pay for things out of their
own pocket. Be frugal. Set up those hssays. What you
(16:51):
don't spend during your working years can go to retirement funds.
So HSA's is going to be the transition vehicle.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Well would it makes sense right now. Is there enough
money right now to fund the HSA's for the one
point six million that will be directly affected that you mentioned,
Is that money less than the money spent on the
ACA subsidies.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Well, again, for that one point six million people, they're
just screwed because their close retirement, their premiums are just
grotesquely expensive, I mean over thirty thousand dollars, so funny
hsays for them probably wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.
You just have to figure out how do we subsize
those premiums until we can actually act a full blown
system that again, you're going to have to dismantle Obamacare.
(17:32):
It's such an awful Rube Goldberg design. Yeah, it's it
was set up, Joe, by the way, it was set
up to fail. It was set up to fail so
that we go to a single payer system, which would
be worse than what we've got.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
It is Ron Johnson, US Senator, Great State of Wisconsin.
Let's quickly talk about Minnesota fraud. Fraud in relation to
medicaid is involved in that. Also, let's feed the hungry,
which they never fed anybody allegedly. There were also adult
daycares that you alluded to earlier, we're talking about potentially
I had Liz Collin on recently from Alpha News in Minnesota.
(18:07):
We're talking about potentially five to eight to ten billion
dollars in fraud, and noybody's going wasn't me, wasn't me,
wasn't me? What do we know about that? And I mean,
is there any way that the governor of the state
didn't know that the money coming from the federal government
to assist people in that state to eat and to
get healthcare, that a lot of that money was being stolen?
Is there any way he didn't know?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
First of all, I think we know that the governor
and other Democratic elected officials were complicit in the fraud.
They absolutely looked the other way. Okay. The other thing
that I want to point out is the Somalians. Let's
face it, they're amateurs at this. It might have been
a pretty well honed scheme, but they're new to this country.
We made it so easy for them to commit this
(18:50):
fraud that they're able to do it on a massive scale.
Point being amateurs, and the reason I'm pointing out we
have all these non governmental organizations, we have all these programs,
we have all these states like California, they don't check
eligeabi ability. We make it so easy for people to
commit fraud against federal government programs that I think a
(19:13):
lot of people are And so I think the other
thing we can say quite confidently about Minnesota fraud, it
is just the tip of the iceberg, and and uncovering
this we're just scratching the surface.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
So we once we uncover exactly what happened in Minnesota,
is are we likely to find it in many other states,
like a lot of other states.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
If we look. And that's the problem is it's just
so massive. I mean, you actually need local prosecutors, you
need at you know, local elect officials. But again in
case of Minnesota, you got you got democratic jurisdictions. Their
main goal is to get more people dependent on government.
They're not looking for fraud. They want to sign people up.
They're the ones that aren't enforcing eligibility requirements. So in
(19:54):
certainly in democrat jurisdiction's got a real problem. I think
in Republican jurisdiction you probably have more of a crackdown.
But look at all unfair that's going to be, so
money will just continue to flow out to Democrat jurisdictions,
and again the whole point. For example, we may medicate
a dollar for dollar match by and large, so that
the states had to skin the game the Medicaid expansion
(20:17):
because of Obamacare, that's a one dollar to nine dollars match,
So states had every incentive to sign up people. They
don't care what frauds occurring because they're getting nine bucks
for every dollar they invest in the Medicaid expansion. For
those single body of dots, they're getting nine bucks from
the federal government. That's why they're assessing provider taxes and
(20:37):
provider fees, which just illegalized former fraud. It's a scam.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Ron Who you told me that you told me about
the nine to one before? Who the hell set that up?
Why would we ever do that and take eight dollars
nine dollars from the rest of the country and funnel
it into some blue state that we're not sure where
they're spending it. Why would it be what make it
two to one? Make it one to one? Why is
it nine to one?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Because Obamacare wanted to make more people depending on government
run healthcare. That's why. It's a simple answer. And they
knew once those people were there they knew that states
would start structuring their budgets around the nine to one match.
That's why we couldn't repeal it. I mean, we have
Republican states. There are very few states that didn't do
medicating Spanish. I think less than ten. Okay, so the
(21:23):
vast majority states, including Republican states, Again, why should they
be the schmucks that don't take part of the largest
of the federal government. So you literally have Republican states
as well as Democrat states whose budgets are based on
the nine to one match, who are are assessing six
percent provider fees. Then they throw on top of that
(21:45):
user fees. No, it's sick, Like I say, it's legalized fraud.
But they're all getting away with it, and it's spend
so endemic. It's now their budgets are structured out it.
During the one big beautiful Bill, you know, Rick Scott
had a great on this couldn't pass it, just would
I said, wanted to kick to anybody offtion. We said,
we're not going to register any more people onto that
(22:06):
nine to one match. If your state and you want
to provide Medicaid for able bodied adulls, you're going to
get the same match as we do for a disabled child.
I mean, think how sick that is for an able
bodied childless adult who should be working and getting health care.
From there, we're providing nine dollas for every Dallas State
spends on a single able bodied adult. We spend about
(22:27):
a dollars thirty three for every dollar they spend on
a disabled child. That's a sick notion right there. But
that's current law and we couldn't change it in the
one big beautiful bill.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
US senator from Wisconsin, it's Ron Johnson. Johnson dot Sendate
dot gov. Let me just finish on healthcare. So I
want to get into Jim troop as if we can,
but I just want to finish on healthcare. Of course,
illegal aliens are getting Medicaid. Of course they are. I
know they're not supposed to. I know it's against the
law to do that, but I think you and I
talked about it last time, and I want to actually
make sure that I have it right now. I get
(22:59):
anything wrong, tell me we are sending Medicaid funds from
the federal government to places like California. California is assessing
a tax on healthcare providers. The health care provider pays
the tax. When California gets the Medicaid money in, they
give them a tax refund. Now those healthcare providers are
providing healthcare to illegal aliens, but they're not using direct
(23:22):
Medicaid money. They're using their tax refund money to pay
for Medicare, that medical care for illegal aliens. So now
California can say not one illegal alien gets Medicaid dollars.
But what they're doing is they're paying back the taxes
that they charge the health care provider with the Medicaid dollars.
And the healthcare provider was incentivized then to give health
care to illegals. Did I get it wrong, Well, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
A master shell game money. Again. The main point is
for every Dallas State spends on an able body adult
from because of Obamacare Expanse the Medicaid Spanish and they
get nine dollars as a result, they've instituted provided taxes
provider fees which are not healthcare. But for every dollar
(24:06):
that they assess for that the you know, the hospital
and pays them, they get nine dollars in exchange from
the federal government. So against it's it's it's legalized fraud.
It's sick. It's cost of federal government. How does the
business dollars that we don't have.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Is there any doubt on your mind that some illegal
aliens in California are getting taxpayer paid for healthcare?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I mean, that's no doubt, no doubt in my mind
whatsoever of course they are. Again, let's face in California
is sanctuary state, sanctuary cities because they want all those
illegal immronts coming in for the census, you know, to vote,
you know, just be counted the censors to give them
more members of Congress. But they're gonna let them vote
(24:48):
and and and they're going to provide them all kinds
of benefits basically paid for by Uncle Sam.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
It's Ron Johnson us centered Great State of Wisconsin. I'm
not familiar with. Is it Jim troopis is that his name?
He was prosecuted for more? Former Trump lawyer, former Wisconsin judge.
What happened to this guy? What's going on with it now?
So for representing President Trump in the twenty twenty election.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Case, and there were all kinds of irregularities in Wisconsin
won't go through. I mean, irregularies need to look at
it is a very legitimate lawsuit again, he advised his
client to do what Kennedy did back in nineteen sixty
had an ultimate slave electors. Our Attorney general office said
there's nothing proper about there, and then later on now
(25:34):
our attorney general is has charged him with felony counts
of forgery, like there was a forgery. They've been persecuting him.
He's price spent over a million dollars. What was just
recently revealed they hired a forensic linguistic expert. The judge
overseeing the case they don't believe wrote the report or
wrote wrote the the you know, the verdict or not
(25:58):
the verdict, but the opinion, right, And they went to
that judge with his evidence and he wouldn't even give
them a hearing, which they're now saying is a civil
rights violation because he should have at least had a
hearing let them present the evidence that that judge didn't
write that opinion that really denied that it really would
have dismissed, should have dismissed the case. I mean, this
(26:18):
is a completely bogus case. But it's occurring in Dane County,
you know, an ultraliberal county in Wisconsin. That's where Madison
is and Judge Trupis is just being persecuted. I mean,
the process is the punishment. They just try to destroy
this man. He's an honorable person. He's just a high
integrity individual. Could have Trump's president. Trump, could have found
a better election lawyer. What he did was completely proper.
(26:41):
One of the reason is al Gord didn't have a
chance Supreme Court is he did not have an alternate
slave electors. Right, No, exactly right.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Well, well, Ron, I want to I'm going to make
a couple of points here that are very important for
those watching and listening. You know these things. Constitutionally, we
can absolutely challenge the results of an election. That's stupid
to pretend like we can't. Secondly, how do you somebody
with forgery? When he signed his own name or those
those electors, the alternate slate, they all signed their real names.
They weren't signing fake names. There was a case in
Arizona that I think is either thrown out or close
(27:10):
to being thrown out. Case in Georgia that's just about
out of here. Why's Wisconsin is still playing this game?
There is nothing illegal with me gathering a bunch of names,
putting them in an envelope just in case Mike Pence
would have said, let's check both envelopes that day. What
exactly is the illegality? I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
There is none. This is a grotesque miscarriage justice. But
it's being carried out in the ultraliberal courts with ultraliberal
judges in Dane County, Wisconsin. That's what's happening right here.
Is a travesty. It's a miscarriage of justice. And that's
one of the reason I wrote a letter to the
primary Justice to investigate this.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Now, what do you think they're going to because I
feel as though we're past twenty twenty. I think we're
past twenty twenty where we can actually say there are
some questions that have to be answered about that election.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
You know, the whole premise of Jack Frost or Jacksmith
artic Frost case. Yes, is it anybody involved in these
alms and say the electors do some something criminal. They're
families here. That's why cast is enormous, dragnant. It's all
about crippling the opposition party with publican party. Again, it's
all a gross miscarriage justice. So the just de partment
(28:17):
outrey vel it you use Wisconsin as the test case
to demonstrate exactly how really, just how corrupt the Jacksmith
investigation was. So I hope they get on board here
and fully investigate this.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I'm glad to let us know about it.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Ron.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I was not familiar with the Wisconsin case, been watching
the other cases, but without a doubt this guy didn't
do anything wrong. If it's exactly as you said, and
I trust that it is, it's our us. Senator Ron
Johnson Johnson dot Senate dot gov. Thanks so much for
the great explanations today. Let's do this again soon, Ron,
Thank you. Did you get all that?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Listen?
Speaker 1 (28:48):
It was a whole lot of information. But one thing
I'm sure about is that nobody in the media, even
the legacy media, even the right media, is really explaining
this as in depth as the explanation you used got
from Senator Ron. Jo and right here an unshaken and
un afraid with Joe Peggs again. Those subsidies are not
money in your pocket. You are not being helped out
by them. The insurance company is getting that money. The
(29:10):
insurance companies all want that money to continue, just like
they all wanted to Obamacare to happen. In nine and ten.
Why because the government literally telling people in the United States,
we will find you, or tax you, or cause you
to pay a fee if you don't go and buy
somebody's product. Can you imagine if you made a product,
whatever it happens to be, and the government forced everybody
to buy it, that'd be pretty good for you, right Well,
(29:32):
that's what the insurance companies are afraid of losing. Right now,
You've got to know exactly what's going on. By the way,
if you like this long form stuff, long interviews, really
explanatory interviews, also in depth news stories and more, make
sure that you follow right here. In fact, subscribe to
Unshaken and Unafraid with Joe Pegs. Subscribe to my channel.
You can then subscribe to the actual playlist. We've got
(29:53):
almost eighty interviews now. In fact, this was the eightieth.
I hope you enjoy him. I appreciate you hanging out.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
This is Unshaken and Unafraid with Joe Pegs.
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