May 9, 2024 • 15 mins
Nihal Iscel was inducted into the Western Australian Women Hall of Fame for her advocacy work. Nihal talked about Global Accessibility Awareness Day and how Instagram has become less accessible - in particular for people who are blind or vision impaired,
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S1 (00:15):
On Vision Australia radio. This is Vision Xtra with Peter Greco.
S2 (00:22):
Well, it's always a pleasure to catch up with wonderful
advocates and people who do great things in the area
of accessibility and communication. Let's speak to Nicola Steel, who
of course, we spoke a little while ago, was inducted
into the Western Australia's Women Hall of Fame. Michael, lovely
to catch up again. Thanks so much for your time.
Thank you for.
S3 (00:40):
Your time, for giving me a chance to talk on
your program again.
S2 (00:42):
I think you're on Instagram. That is kind of photos
and videos. So why would a person who's blind have
low vision get onto Instagram?
S3 (00:50):
Um, I usually read the stories. I can't make many
comments or anything. It's not very accessible just to see
if my family members from overseas have posted something. I
just read their notes and all that. What they post.
So I don't have much to do with their photos.
S2 (01:08):
I know that, uh, you were mentioning to me earlier that, um,
it was a little more accessible in earlier days. Instagram.
S3 (01:16):
Yes, until about 1 or 2 months ago, it was accessible.
I was able to post things. I was able to
make reels, but nowadays they've made posting very, very difficult
for a blind person. Whatever they've done, it's not very
accessible anymore.
S2 (01:32):
That's one of the frustrating things, isn't it, about technology
and the things that, uh, you know, it can give
you access to. When something changes. It can often be
maybe people that have changing it think it's really cool
or hip to be changing it and making it more,
you know, sort of modern or more up to date
and more.
S3 (01:50):
Yeah, more, um, visual looking pretty to the eyes. But
it's not very accessible for persons who don't use that
visual cues because.
S2 (02:01):
Instagram is very, very popular these days, isn't it? I mean,
for a lot of particularly small businesses, etc..
S3 (02:06):
Yes, small businesses, young people. And that's why I try
and follow my, um, nieces who are living overseas. I,
you know, I just want to I'm just so curious.
I want to see how they're doing. And they don't
use Facebook. Um, yeah.
S2 (02:22):
That seems to have kind of, uh, you know, uh,
regressed a bit as far as popularity goes and sort
of Instagram and TikTok and all those kind of cooler
things seem to have taken over.
S3 (02:32):
That's right, that's right. Yes.
S2 (02:34):
Uh, Global Accessibility Day coming up next week, which is
obviously a really important day. What about some of your
thoughts and feelings regarding accessibility and its importance? As I
said at the beginning, you've done so much in the
area of advocacy. What about things like accessibility?
S3 (02:48):
Well, accessibility involves a lot of things, not just physical
road accessibility, street accessibility, etc. but we need to have
accessibility to information as well and websites. And, you know,
I don't think it's working as well. It for a
while it everyone was interested. And as the time goes past,
(03:12):
you know people lose interest and they upgrade updates and
you lose that whatever you had before. I think we
need to be more sort of, um, what's the word
vigilant about it and, and encourage more companies to provide accessibility.
I mean, it's easier done here in Australia than it
(03:32):
is in some countries that I've been to. Um, at
least people can see where they're going wrong when you
show it to them and they're prepared to make the difference,
improve things for us, which I really appreciate. But they
don't give us time to just sit back and say, okay,
we've achieved everything. They will keep going like this. It
(03:54):
just doesn't happen that way. You just keep you have
to be on, on the go. Always be vigilant and
and catch them.
S2 (04:01):
I guess that's kind of the, the, uh, sort of case,
if you like, for anything in the area of accessibility
or advocacy, isn't it. It's kind of the job is
never going to be done.
S3 (04:10):
No. I mean, it's my vision one day that we
don't have to advocate for things, you know, but it's
not going to happen, unfortunately, in my lifetime.
S2 (04:20):
I guess there's always, you know, sort of new, new
players coming onto the scene that probably need that kind
of education. I mean, I often muse about the fact that, uh,
you know, 30 years ago we were doing interviews back
about the fact that people were being refused entry into
restaurants or cabs because they had a dog guide. And
30 years later, that sort of thing is still happening.
S3 (04:41):
Exactly. It's still happening, which is really sad even now. Taxis.
I mean, it's, um, illegal to refuse someone with a
guide dog, but they still are because the training doesn't
continue with the new drivers, even like on public transport. Um,
you have a travel guide. I mean, Travel Pass, which
(05:02):
says guide can travel for free. And sometimes it guards
keep saying no. You need to show your companion card
as well. And I was thinking, no you don't. Yeah.
On the actual card, it actually spells out that guide
can travel for free. You know, people just either don't
learn or don't continue. And the other thing is both
(05:23):
state and federal governments, uh, reduced systemic advocacy funding. So
for individuals one on one basis, you can advocate for
a change. But when it comes to systemic issues like
public transport, like accessibility on Instagram, nobody has the funding
or the resources to be able to do that.
S2 (05:44):
That is such a great point, isn't it? And I mean,
it's not just in a sense, the financial capabilities or
the financial assets to be able to do it, but
it's also the kind of emotional investment that you have
to make in it as well.
S3 (05:57):
Exactly, exactly. It actually does tie you out after a while.
You know, it's not that easy.
S2 (06:02):
I can recall a number of interviews that I've done
with people who have kind of been through the wringer
and come out the other end, and whilst even if
they've got the, uh, judgment in their favor, the toll
that has taken on them as far as the emotional
input goes is, uh, is quite extraordinary.
S3 (06:19):
Yeah. If you have time, I can explain another situation
to you. Sure. Um, our train services were cancelled because they're, um,
redoing the, um, railway, uh, from Perth to Armadale. And, um,
the bus replacement services go to every train station. And unfortunately, Mr.. Miss,
(06:41):
my station, uh, they don't come to my station, so
I advocated for fully subsidised taxi scheme for the duration
of the, um, construction work until the train services restart.
They said no, I was on the radio a couple
of times, and then they said yes, only for you.
And I said, no, I can't accept it. Just for me.
(07:01):
It needs to be for everyone who is impacted by this.
And they said, okay, we'll do it on a case
by case, uh, basis. And people were ringing in to
the transport department and they were saying, oh no, we
can't do that for you. Oh, no, we can't do
that for you. And I thought, this is just disgusting.
Not fair at all. I mean, what else can you do?
S2 (07:20):
The annoying thing about a case like that, Neil, is
the fact that there's an issue there. You kind of
come up with a solution, put the solution forward. So
it's not like you're just complaining, but you're finding a solution.
And it wasn't going to be a long term financial
exactly either, was it?
S3 (07:36):
No, definitely not until um, the train services through start.
It's a short term project. I mean, um, I don't know, uh,
I mean, if it's a big business, they cover all
the costs. The government covers all their costs. But if
it's an individual, they don't care.
S2 (07:52):
It's probably the cost of a good Christmas party, isn't it,
that that might have cost the organization.
S3 (07:56):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. Yeah. And, um, and I thought, okay,
I'll use the taxi services for a while. I did,
and they only, uh, had an agreement with one particular company,
taxi company. And you call them, they get the full
payment from the government, not subsidised 50% like they usually do.
(08:18):
They wouldn't turn up. So what I did was I
sold my unit and moved somewhere else. I just couldn't
be bothered anymore.
S2 (08:25):
I mean, that's sad. That has to come to that
sort of, uh, outcome. Yeah.
S3 (08:31):
I mean, I didn't ask it just for me. I
asked for, you know, all the people who were impacted
by it.
S2 (08:37):
Anyhow, getting back to the Instagram. So what what device
were you using or are you using to access Instagram?
S3 (08:44):
I found it's the only one that is as accessible
as it can get.
S2 (08:48):
Have you had any contact? Because I think Instagram is
owned by meta, who owned Facebook. It's kind of part
of that, uh, big stable of, uh, IT companies. Uh,
have you had any contact with Instagram or Facebook to
kind of point this out?
S3 (09:00):
Well, um, I have contacted Facebook for other issues, accessibility issues,
and also WhatsApp, and they usually were very helpful. But, um, no,
I haven't had anything any complaints made to the Instagram?
I've been considering it, but I haven't made it. I'm sorry. No,
that's all right.
S2 (09:18):
You've done well to get through to any of those
big companies anyway, because, uh, normally you've got to be
like a sort of, uh, a Paralympic athlete to be
able to jump through all those hoops.
S3 (09:28):
Well, um, I was asking other people to do it
as well, so it wasn't just me. So we're making
a sort of, um, combined complaint, and that's why it's
got it.
S2 (09:40):
Yeah. That's why it's got to be with a lot
of these things. You've got to try and get, uh,
sort of might, might and numbers on your side. Not
rather than just. Right.
S3 (09:47):
Exactly. Yes. Well, doing it doesn't, doesn't do anything. But
if there's a group of people saying the same thing,
it actually does work.
S2 (09:55):
You made an interesting point early. You think that Australia
perhaps doesn't do too badly compared to some countries overseas
that maybe aren't quite as, uh, uh. A sort of, uh,
amenable to accessibility issues.
S3 (10:08):
That's right. Yes, I was in Turkey last year and
the year before that. And, um, blind people there, you know,
when they're buying and selling property, if they need to
use the notaries for signature and all that, um, notary
requested them to, um, requires them to get two witnesses
because they are blind. Only because they are blind. Wow.
(10:31):
And for the last two, three years, they've been, um,
doing lots of, um, rallies, um, media statements saying, this
is not fair. This this is not happening anywhere else
in Europe or Western world. You know, we are educated people.
We know what we're signing for. Don't do this to us.
Even the court has ruled in their favor. But notaries
(10:55):
are still saying you need to bring two people to
sign for you. Witness for you. It was published on papers.
It was on radio, on TV, but not not notaries
won't get it.
S2 (11:05):
Well, that's kind of interesting, isn't it? Kind of. Uh,
it's trading. It's trading. A person who's blind has no vision.
There's a bit of a child or someone that needs
a guardian.
S3 (11:12):
Exactly. That's exactly what they're. What the people who are
blind are complaining about and. And so rightfully so.
S2 (11:19):
Yeah, indeed.
S3 (11:21):
Um.
S2 (11:22):
Just getting back to the Instagram thing again, uh, it
is kind of a worldwide movement. So I guess, I mean,
if you and you're quite adept as far as technology goes,
if you're finding it difficult, you think people in other
countries would be similarly so. So again, a kind of a,
a worldwide movement to make Instagram more accessible could be
something that could be considered. I guess it's kind of
(11:43):
organizing it and putting people, uh, in place to be
able to sort of carry out that, uh, task is
the issue.
S3 (11:50):
Well, yes. Exactly right. And with vision extras help if
other people can hear it and, and and try and
put some, um, words through Instagram meta, then we can
all do it.
S2 (12:02):
Yeah, that's a great point, isn't it? Because it's a
sort of thing that, uh, uh, you know, um, the, uh,
collective power of, uh, many people can, can be so
such a powerful thing. And, Niall, before you go, how
are things going in Turkey? Because we spoke to you and, uh, uh,
a little while ago after that dreadful, uh, natural disaster
with the loss of life, etc., have they kind of, well,
(12:25):
you know, making a recovery, if you like, both physically
and emotionally.
S3 (12:28):
Um, most of the recovery has been done in Gaziantep,
but other cities are still, um, suffering, uh, like places
like Hatay. Um, hasn't improved much. Malatya is still, um, shaking.
There's still tremors there. The best recovery has happened in Gaziantep, uh,
(12:49):
where my family comes from. I mean, people who've lost
family members, I don't think they will ever recover, but
people who've lost properties. It's getting better.
S2 (13:00):
It was certainly a dreadful incidence. And you and, uh, zelen. And, uh,
you know, hopefully Australia did rally to kind of help out.
I mean, in a sense, it's almost token more than, uh,
really substantial as far as the assistance goes. But it
kind of did mean at least we were thinking of them,
which hopefully can, you know, send a bit of a
comfort to those who were.
S3 (13:20):
There was a lot, a lot of good people with,
you know, well-meaning, beautiful people who've supported us, helped us in,
in all of Australia. I'm so proud of our Australians.
It was just so good. Well, we're very.
S2 (13:35):
Proud of you for the great work that you've done. Neil.
Lovely to catch up with you again. Hope your health
is in good shape as well. Thank you so much
for speaking to us. And well, you're quite right. If, uh,
people do use Instagram and maybe in the last little
while I've found it a little less accessible, maybe band
together and, uh, put out some, uh, some pressure on, uh,
meta to kind of make it a bit more accessible because,
(13:56):
you know, everyone who, uh, wants to access it should
be allowed to, should be able to, should have the
accessibility to be able to do so. That would.
S3 (14:02):
Be wonderful. If people can do that. Terrific. I will
start as from today.
S2 (14:07):
Oh, terrific. All right. We'll follow you. You lead. We'll follow. Okay.
S3 (14:11):
All right. Sounds good.
S2 (14:12):
Thanks, Niall.
S3 (14:13):
Thank you for giving me an opportunity again.
S4 (14:16):
And all the best.
S2 (14:18):
Yeah, indeed. Niall, who was inducted into the West Australian
Women Hall of Fame for her tremendous work in the
Arab advocacy, uh, not just for disability, but also for, uh,
people that had made Australia their home and, uh, always
great to catch up and hear some positive news. And
someone who is a wonderful advocate.
S5 (14:39):
Thank you for listening to Vision Extra with Peter Greco.
You can find this interview on the Focal Point Podcast.
This show was produced in the Adelaide studios of Vision
Australia Radio.
On Vision Australia radio. This is Vision Xtra with Peter Greco.
S2 (00:22):
Well, it's always a pleasure to catch up with wonderful
advocates and people who do great things in the area
of accessibility and communication. Let's speak to Nicola Steel, who
of course, we spoke a little while ago, was inducted
into the Western Australia's Women Hall of Fame. Michael, lovely
to catch up again. Thanks so much for your time.
Thank you for.
S3 (00:40):
Your time, for giving me a chance to talk on
your program again.
S2 (00:42):
I think you're on Instagram. That is kind of photos
and videos. So why would a person who's blind have
low vision get onto Instagram?
S3 (00:50):
Um, I usually read the stories. I can't make many
comments or anything. It's not very accessible just to see
if my family members from overseas have posted something. I
just read their notes and all that. What they post.
So I don't have much to do with their photos.
S2 (01:08):
I know that, uh, you were mentioning to me earlier that, um,
it was a little more accessible in earlier days. Instagram.
S3 (01:16):
Yes, until about 1 or 2 months ago, it was accessible.
I was able to post things. I was able to
make reels, but nowadays they've made posting very, very difficult
for a blind person. Whatever they've done, it's not very
accessible anymore.
S2 (01:32):
That's one of the frustrating things, isn't it, about technology
and the things that, uh, you know, it can give
you access to. When something changes. It can often be
maybe people that have changing it think it's really cool
or hip to be changing it and making it more,
you know, sort of modern or more up to date
and more.
S3 (01:50):
Yeah, more, um, visual looking pretty to the eyes. But
it's not very accessible for persons who don't use that
visual cues because.
S2 (02:01):
Instagram is very, very popular these days, isn't it? I mean,
for a lot of particularly small businesses, etc..
S3 (02:06):
Yes, small businesses, young people. And that's why I try
and follow my, um, nieces who are living overseas. I,
you know, I just want to I'm just so curious.
I want to see how they're doing. And they don't
use Facebook. Um, yeah.
S2 (02:22):
That seems to have kind of, uh, you know, uh,
regressed a bit as far as popularity goes and sort
of Instagram and TikTok and all those kind of cooler
things seem to have taken over.
S3 (02:32):
That's right, that's right. Yes.
S2 (02:34):
Uh, Global Accessibility Day coming up next week, which is
obviously a really important day. What about some of your
thoughts and feelings regarding accessibility and its importance? As I
said at the beginning, you've done so much in the
area of advocacy. What about things like accessibility?
S3 (02:48):
Well, accessibility involves a lot of things, not just physical
road accessibility, street accessibility, etc. but we need to have
accessibility to information as well and websites. And, you know,
I don't think it's working as well. It for a
while it everyone was interested. And as the time goes past,
(03:12):
you know people lose interest and they upgrade updates and
you lose that whatever you had before. I think we
need to be more sort of, um, what's the word
vigilant about it and, and encourage more companies to provide accessibility.
I mean, it's easier done here in Australia than it
(03:32):
is in some countries that I've been to. Um, at
least people can see where they're going wrong when you
show it to them and they're prepared to make the difference,
improve things for us, which I really appreciate. But they
don't give us time to just sit back and say, okay,
we've achieved everything. They will keep going like this. It
(03:54):
just doesn't happen that way. You just keep you have
to be on, on the go. Always be vigilant and
and catch them.
S2 (04:01):
I guess that's kind of the, the, uh, sort of case,
if you like, for anything in the area of accessibility
or advocacy, isn't it. It's kind of the job is
never going to be done.
S3 (04:10):
No. I mean, it's my vision one day that we
don't have to advocate for things, you know, but it's
not going to happen, unfortunately, in my lifetime.
S2 (04:20):
I guess there's always, you know, sort of new, new
players coming onto the scene that probably need that kind
of education. I mean, I often muse about the fact that, uh,
you know, 30 years ago we were doing interviews back
about the fact that people were being refused entry into
restaurants or cabs because they had a dog guide. And
30 years later, that sort of thing is still happening.
S3 (04:41):
Exactly. It's still happening, which is really sad even now. Taxis.
I mean, it's, um, illegal to refuse someone with a
guide dog, but they still are because the training doesn't
continue with the new drivers, even like on public transport. Um,
you have a travel guide. I mean, Travel Pass, which
(05:02):
says guide can travel for free. And sometimes it guards
keep saying no. You need to show your companion card
as well. And I was thinking, no you don't. Yeah.
On the actual card, it actually spells out that guide
can travel for free. You know, people just either don't
learn or don't continue. And the other thing is both
(05:23):
state and federal governments, uh, reduced systemic advocacy funding. So
for individuals one on one basis, you can advocate for
a change. But when it comes to systemic issues like
public transport, like accessibility on Instagram, nobody has the funding
or the resources to be able to do that.
S2 (05:44):
That is such a great point, isn't it? And I mean,
it's not just in a sense, the financial capabilities or
the financial assets to be able to do it, but
it's also the kind of emotional investment that you have
to make in it as well.
S3 (05:57):
Exactly, exactly. It actually does tie you out after a while.
You know, it's not that easy.
S2 (06:02):
I can recall a number of interviews that I've done
with people who have kind of been through the wringer
and come out the other end, and whilst even if
they've got the, uh, judgment in their favor, the toll
that has taken on them as far as the emotional
input goes is, uh, is quite extraordinary.
S3 (06:19):
Yeah. If you have time, I can explain another situation
to you. Sure. Um, our train services were cancelled because they're, um,
redoing the, um, railway, uh, from Perth to Armadale. And, um,
the bus replacement services go to every train station. And unfortunately, Mr.. Miss,
(06:41):
my station, uh, they don't come to my station, so
I advocated for fully subsidised taxi scheme for the duration
of the, um, construction work until the train services restart.
They said no, I was on the radio a couple
of times, and then they said yes, only for you.
And I said, no, I can't accept it. Just for me.
(07:01):
It needs to be for everyone who is impacted by this.
And they said, okay, we'll do it on a case
by case, uh, basis. And people were ringing in to
the transport department and they were saying, oh no, we
can't do that for you. Oh, no, we can't do
that for you. And I thought, this is just disgusting.
Not fair at all. I mean, what else can you do?
S2 (07:20):
The annoying thing about a case like that, Neil, is
the fact that there's an issue there. You kind of
come up with a solution, put the solution forward. So
it's not like you're just complaining, but you're finding a solution.
And it wasn't going to be a long term financial
exactly either, was it?
S3 (07:36):
No, definitely not until um, the train services through start.
It's a short term project. I mean, um, I don't know, uh,
I mean, if it's a big business, they cover all
the costs. The government covers all their costs. But if
it's an individual, they don't care.
S2 (07:52):
It's probably the cost of a good Christmas party, isn't it,
that that might have cost the organization.
S3 (07:56):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. Yeah. And, um, and I thought, okay,
I'll use the taxi services for a while. I did,
and they only, uh, had an agreement with one particular company,
taxi company. And you call them, they get the full
payment from the government, not subsidised 50% like they usually do.
(08:18):
They wouldn't turn up. So what I did was I
sold my unit and moved somewhere else. I just couldn't
be bothered anymore.
S2 (08:25):
I mean, that's sad. That has to come to that
sort of, uh, outcome. Yeah.
S3 (08:31):
I mean, I didn't ask it just for me. I
asked for, you know, all the people who were impacted
by it.
S2 (08:37):
Anyhow, getting back to the Instagram. So what what device
were you using or are you using to access Instagram?
S3 (08:44):
I found it's the only one that is as accessible
as it can get.
S2 (08:48):
Have you had any contact? Because I think Instagram is
owned by meta, who owned Facebook. It's kind of part
of that, uh, big stable of, uh, IT companies. Uh,
have you had any contact with Instagram or Facebook to
kind of point this out?
S3 (09:00):
Well, um, I have contacted Facebook for other issues, accessibility issues,
and also WhatsApp, and they usually were very helpful. But, um, no,
I haven't had anything any complaints made to the Instagram?
I've been considering it, but I haven't made it. I'm sorry. No,
that's all right.
S2 (09:18):
You've done well to get through to any of those
big companies anyway, because, uh, normally you've got to be
like a sort of, uh, a Paralympic athlete to be
able to jump through all those hoops.
S3 (09:28):
Well, um, I was asking other people to do it
as well, so it wasn't just me. So we're making
a sort of, um, combined complaint, and that's why it's
got it.
S2 (09:40):
Yeah. That's why it's got to be with a lot
of these things. You've got to try and get, uh,
sort of might, might and numbers on your side. Not
rather than just. Right.
S3 (09:47):
Exactly. Yes. Well, doing it doesn't, doesn't do anything. But
if there's a group of people saying the same thing,
it actually does work.
S2 (09:55):
You made an interesting point early. You think that Australia
perhaps doesn't do too badly compared to some countries overseas
that maybe aren't quite as, uh, uh. A sort of, uh,
amenable to accessibility issues.
S3 (10:08):
That's right. Yes, I was in Turkey last year and
the year before that. And, um, blind people there, you know,
when they're buying and selling property, if they need to
use the notaries for signature and all that, um, notary
requested them to, um, requires them to get two witnesses
because they are blind. Only because they are blind. Wow.
(10:31):
And for the last two, three years, they've been, um,
doing lots of, um, rallies, um, media statements saying, this
is not fair. This this is not happening anywhere else
in Europe or Western world. You know, we are educated people.
We know what we're signing for. Don't do this to us.
Even the court has ruled in their favor. But notaries
(10:55):
are still saying you need to bring two people to
sign for you. Witness for you. It was published on papers.
It was on radio, on TV, but not not notaries
won't get it.
S2 (11:05):
Well, that's kind of interesting, isn't it? Kind of. Uh,
it's trading. It's trading. A person who's blind has no vision.
There's a bit of a child or someone that needs
a guardian.
S3 (11:12):
Exactly. That's exactly what they're. What the people who are
blind are complaining about and. And so rightfully so.
S2 (11:19):
Yeah, indeed.
S3 (11:21):
Um.
S2 (11:22):
Just getting back to the Instagram thing again, uh, it
is kind of a worldwide movement. So I guess, I mean,
if you and you're quite adept as far as technology goes,
if you're finding it difficult, you think people in other
countries would be similarly so. So again, a kind of a,
a worldwide movement to make Instagram more accessible could be
something that could be considered. I guess it's kind of
(11:43):
organizing it and putting people, uh, in place to be
able to sort of carry out that, uh, task is
the issue.
S3 (11:50):
Well, yes. Exactly right. And with vision extras help if
other people can hear it and, and and try and
put some, um, words through Instagram meta, then we can
all do it.
S2 (12:02):
Yeah, that's a great point, isn't it? Because it's a
sort of thing that, uh, uh, you know, um, the, uh,
collective power of, uh, many people can, can be so
such a powerful thing. And, Niall, before you go, how
are things going in Turkey? Because we spoke to you and, uh, uh,
a little while ago after that dreadful, uh, natural disaster
with the loss of life, etc., have they kind of, well,
(12:25):
you know, making a recovery, if you like, both physically
and emotionally.
S3 (12:28):
Um, most of the recovery has been done in Gaziantep,
but other cities are still, um, suffering, uh, like places
like Hatay. Um, hasn't improved much. Malatya is still, um, shaking.
There's still tremors there. The best recovery has happened in Gaziantep, uh,
(12:49):
where my family comes from. I mean, people who've lost
family members, I don't think they will ever recover, but
people who've lost properties. It's getting better.
S2 (13:00):
It was certainly a dreadful incidence. And you and, uh, zelen. And, uh,
you know, hopefully Australia did rally to kind of help out.
I mean, in a sense, it's almost token more than, uh,
really substantial as far as the assistance goes. But it
kind of did mean at least we were thinking of them,
which hopefully can, you know, send a bit of a
comfort to those who were.
S3 (13:20):
There was a lot, a lot of good people with,
you know, well-meaning, beautiful people who've supported us, helped us in,
in all of Australia. I'm so proud of our Australians.
It was just so good. Well, we're very.
S2 (13:35):
Proud of you for the great work that you've done. Neil.
Lovely to catch up with you again. Hope your health
is in good shape as well. Thank you so much
for speaking to us. And well, you're quite right. If, uh,
people do use Instagram and maybe in the last little
while I've found it a little less accessible, maybe band
together and, uh, put out some, uh, some pressure on, uh,
meta to kind of make it a bit more accessible because,
(13:56):
you know, everyone who, uh, wants to access it should
be allowed to, should be able to, should have the
accessibility to be able to do so. That would.
S3 (14:02):
Be wonderful. If people can do that. Terrific. I will
start as from today.
S2 (14:07):
Oh, terrific. All right. We'll follow you. You lead. We'll follow. Okay.
S3 (14:11):
All right. Sounds good.
S2 (14:12):
Thanks, Niall.
S3 (14:13):
Thank you for giving me an opportunity again.
S4 (14:16):
And all the best.
S2 (14:18):
Yeah, indeed. Niall, who was inducted into the West Australian
Women Hall of Fame for her tremendous work in the
Arab advocacy, uh, not just for disability, but also for, uh,
people that had made Australia their home and, uh, always
great to catch up and hear some positive news. And
someone who is a wonderful advocate.
S5 (14:39):
Thank you for listening to Vision Extra with Peter Greco.
You can find this interview on the Focal Point Podcast.
This show was produced in the Adelaide studios of Vision
Australia Radio.
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