July 23, 2025 • 15 mins
Dr David Sykes, Director of the Centre for Dementia Learning at
Dementia Australia, spoke about a new app-based tool available to help support people working in health; disability and aged care to provide quality care for people living with dementia "Tell TiNA" and other supports for individuals caring for a loved one with dementia,
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:18):
On Vision Australia Radio. This is Vision Xtra with Peter Greco.
S2 (00:25):
Well, I'm really pleased to welcome to the program from
the Dementia Australia, the director for the centre for Dementia Learning,
Doctor David Sykes. David, welcome. Thanks so much for your time.
Really appreciate you speaking to us.
S3 (00:35):
Thanks very much, Peter, and hello to your listeners.
S2 (00:38):
Now you've just launched something, but it's got a very
catchy name. Uh, tell us a bit about Tell Tina.
S3 (00:43):
Yeah, we're really excited to launch. Uh, tell Tina Tilt.
Tina is, uh, a fantastic resource that is really aimed
at workers, uh, supporting someone living with dementia to really
help them to assess what their current strengths are in
relation to their skills and knowledge, and also areas of development.
(01:06):
We think this is really important because a lot of, uh,
particularly aged care providers, there's a real need to build
the capability and capacity of their staff in how they
best support someone living with dementia. And so this tool,
which is tied into the recently launched National Dementia Education
and Training Standards framework, I know it's a long title,
(01:29):
but that actually sets national standards for dementia education. So
we've mapped this tool against that. And so it will
provide a really valuable resource, not just for individuals who
want to know how they can improve their knowledge and
skill to better support people living with dementia, but also
to aged care providers, because there is a back end
(01:51):
which holds all the data from the app and gives
them a really great picture of what the strengths of
their staff are and where they need to target further
education to really build their capability.
S2 (02:04):
It's kind of a live document, if I can put
it that way. It's kind of this is not it,
not all about it. There's more to come or that
there's more to can be developed from this.
S3 (02:13):
Well, this ties into the fact that we've got a
range of dementia education programmes online face to face, as
well as some based on the Ascani app that are
really designed to improve the workforce capability around dementia practice.
And we're particularly known both locally and internationally for our
(02:33):
use of technology to improve learning outcomes. So we've been
delivering programmes with virtual reality for over a decade now.
It really helped to put people in the shoes of
someone living with dementia and give them real insights onto
what it might be like and how that informs their
their practice and the best way to support someone living
(02:54):
with dementia.
S2 (02:55):
The kind of onset of dementia has been described as
a tsunami. I'm not sure if that's emotive talk, but
I guess suffice to say that it's an area in
terms of people's expertise and people's employment opportunities that is
going to just continue to grow.
S3 (03:09):
Yes. Look, sadly, Peter, there's no Certainly no cure in sight.
And the numbers, as you quite rightly point out, does
continue to rise with well over 400,000 Australians currently living
with dementia. And that's expected to, uh, certainly well go
well over the million by 2050. So, you know, this
(03:29):
really is a crisis for our community. But communities across
the globe, as we continue to see that be the case.
And then, of course, we've got younger onset dementia, which
affects people under the age of 65, and there's about
25,000 Australians in that situation. And then even more tragic again,
you've got, um, childhood dementia, so much smaller numbers, but
(03:52):
still equally tragic. The impact that has on on very
young lives.
S2 (03:57):
This information, this can be applicable to those working in
the area, regardless of what age the person that has
dementia has.
S3 (04:03):
Absolutely. So if you're working in aged care and disability care,
in healthcare, at whatever age and stage, that person living
with dementia is that this resource provides an invaluable insight
into where your strengths lie, and where your opportunities to
improve on a personal front. And that helps your employer
(04:25):
if they're able to access the the back end and
actually get a report out of what their staff's capability is,
also helps guide our education providers like ourselves, in making
sure we map out programs to the new standards so
that that can be really targeted, because we know with
the staff shortages in whether it's health aged or disability, um,
(04:48):
that it's really difficult to release staff to attend training,
whether that's face to face. So you want to make
sure that training is very well targeted, to make sure
it's it's getting the appropriate level of knowledge and skill
to those workers that they require.
S2 (05:03):
That's a bit of a catch 22 situation, Dave, because,
you know, it's difficult to release staff because obviously, you know,
it's critical that they're at work. But By the same token,
they're probably pretty thirsty to get more information and be
better at what they do as well. So you kind
of want to have the best of both worlds if
you can.
S3 (05:18):
Yes, absolutely. And and hopefully they are thirsty for it. Um,
certainly whenever they've done surveys of, uh, particularly aged care workforce, um,
the two areas that uh, staff normally ask for more
training in is dementia and palliative care. So they're the
two kind of standout areas.
S2 (05:36):
What about in terms of, um, the sort of research
or the work that's gone into it, as you said,
you're recognised internationally. So in terms of, I guess, the
sort of IP, if you like, that's gone into this.
Are you comfortable with it and, you know, pleased with
the way that you've kind of gathered the information?
S3 (05:53):
Yeah, we're very pleased with how it's, uh, how it's
come up. We've learned a lot over the years with
these kind of training needs, analysis type tools. Um, some
of our early ones were very comprehensive, but probably too
comprehensive for anyone to really spend the time completing. So
we've we've learnt learned a lot about making this much
more targeted, short and sharp. The back end of it
(06:15):
is very much based on validated tools. Um, so we
we can be comfortable and confident that the, the data
that's coming out of it for to inform providers workforce
planning is accurate. We also having having it on our
ask any app platform. It's a platform we've uh had
(06:37):
going for a number of years now that we've developed
up that app with home care providers to really, um,
give them education, uh, in the palm of their hand.
That is very much driven by the workers. So it's
not intended to give them what is dementia or signs
and symptoms. It's really intended to actually give them. What
(06:58):
specifically do they need some help with right now they're
about to go and assist Mrs. Smith have a shower
at home. Uh, what are some of the things they
might need to think about with that? So it is
very much a learner driven resource and complements a suite
of programs that we have. In other contexts. So for
our face to face, we've got a probably a multi
(07:20):
award winning Ed.D. program which uses the virtual reality. And that's, uh,
puts you in the shoes of Eddie, who's someone living
with dementia and getting up in the middle of the
night to try and find the toilet. Very common experience
that many carers tell us about. And the level of
discomfort and distress for experiences in a built environment that's
(07:41):
unfriendly to him. And then you get the experience of
where there's been some environmental changes and you go through
that scenario again and have the discussion in the workshop
around what does that mean? And we find that that
actually gives people real empathy for, um, someone living with
dementia because they experience the frustration, they experience the annoyance,
(08:03):
the irritation that comes from some of the difficulties that
living with dementia confronts people with the other one that, uh,
online is um, uh, talk with Ted, and that's an
avatar that we programmed using artificial intelligence. And so really
helps people to learn how to communicate effectively with someone
(08:26):
living with dementia. And you're actually there to help Ted
have a share. But if the first thing you do is, um,
try and get him to have a shower, I can
tell you it's going to end badly. Uh, because you
really need to engage with Ted. Uh, introduce yourself, understand
who he is as a person and what's important to him.
Before you start to look at how you best support
(08:47):
him to have a shower. So that's another really great
one that, uh, is available online for people to do
that can teach them a lot about some really solid
ways of connecting and engaging with someone living with dementia.
S2 (09:02):
And in terms of your timeliness of this, if you like,
I think there were some changes that were, um, suggested
that might have happened in July. I think that's been
pushed back to the 1st of November. So, uh, again,
this is very, very timely from from that point of view.
S3 (09:14):
Look, absolutely. We're, we're we're thrilled that in the strengthened
aged care standards that, as you say, have been certainly
the implementation of the new legislation has been pushed back
to November now. But it does mean for the first time,
we're seeing in the standards the actual reference to dementia,
and there is going to be greater expectations on certainly
aged care providers to demonstrate what they're doing to ensure
(09:37):
that their staff are appropriately trained to deliver the best
possible care to someone living with dementia. And so this
tool arrives in a timely fashion. On top of the
recently released National Dementia Education and Training Standards framework, to
really help them do the necessary workforce planning, as well
(09:58):
as being able to demonstrate to the Aged Care Quality
and Safety Commission what efforts they're they're undertaking to ensure
that their staff are appropriately trained.
S2 (10:07):
Yeah, that's very good, David, in terms of people that
might be caring for someone with dementia at home. Is
there anything in this for them, if you like. I'm
thinking in terms of, um, you know, might might be
a spouse or even a child that might be caring for,
you know, a relative with dementia at home.
S3 (10:24):
Look, they can certainly, um, utilise the app. Obviously it's
not designed. It is designed for the paid workforce, but
they can certainly undertake it. But also they can certainly
utilise the Ask Any app which is free to download.
And that can give them some really practical resources for
how they can best support their loved one. Um, the
vast majority of people living with dementia in this country
(10:47):
are supported by over 1.7 million carers. The majority of
those are in fact families and carers, um, and unpaid carers.
So we know that's probably the bigger workforce in lots
of ways, uh, albeit not a workforce. Uh, so Ask
Annie is a really valuable resource that anyone can access
(11:07):
and can give them some incredibly valuable tips, strategies, education information.
It's no substitute for training, but it's certainly is a
very accessible resource. When we know families and carers are
often very time poor, juggling work and family and caring
and other commitments, as well as supporting a loved one
(11:29):
living with dementia.
S2 (11:30):
We've had no end of discussions with Carers and Carers
Australia regarding the incredible work that a lot of their
members do and, you know, I guess in a sense that, well,
I'm sure to those that are involved it doesn't go unnoticed,
but maybe to us that a little bit removed it might.
David Watt without getting into trouble, what about in terms
of government support just in general terms or in particular
(11:51):
with this resource? How has that been for you?
S3 (11:53):
There hasn't been specific government support for this particular in
terms of funding, government support in terms of the commission,
the Commission, we've certainly been very interested in the development
of have told Tina as a resource that they can
potentially seek information from aged care providers that might have
used this resource. Um, and certainly direct providers to the
(12:17):
use of the resource if they seem to be not
doing a level of planning for building the dementia capability
of their workforce. So it certainly had that support. We
do deliver other programs to the aged care workforce that
are funded by government. So we have Dementia Essentials, which
is a unit of competency out of the cert three
(12:38):
and individual support that we deliver to the aged care workforce.
There's some leadership programs that we're just preparing to deliver
now that we're in, uh, another financial year. There's de-escalation,
which is or DSC, which is another program we've developed
using virtual reality that really helps the aged care workforce
(12:59):
deal with situations where someone is, you know, has behaviour
has Behaviors change and have a best respond to that
situation in a way that supports that person living with dementia.
Recognizing the behavior can be a key way in which
someone living with dementia communicates. Very often an unmet need. Um,
(13:19):
and that's important to respond to those situations in a
positive and supportive way.
S2 (13:25):
Now, just before I leave a little bit of a
tongue in cheek question, who comes up with all these names? Annie. Tina. Ted. Eddie.
You got a great. Uh. Someone's got a great. We've
got a great imagination there.
S4 (13:36):
We've got a great family, haven't we?
S3 (13:38):
So. Yes. Look, look, Tina, what's embedded in Tina, of course,
is the, um, Tina or training needs analysis. So I
think that you'll see the way it's written. It's a
capital T, capital N capital A with a small I.
So there's a bit of a bit of a trick
to the, um, Tina, uh, name there. The other ones, uh, look,
(14:00):
you know, various processes we go through to identify what's
the best way to promote those with Ask Any? Pretty
much a name that resonated with the home care workforce,
and Ask Annie is a more experienced, uh, home care
staff member that they can go to for advice. So
that's kind of the thinking behind that. Of course, we've
(14:22):
now rolled that app out to, uh, care and uh,
other settings as well. But certainly, again, for us it's
around personalizing the experience of dementia.
S2 (14:33):
That's, uh, Doctor David Sykes there. He's the director for
the center for Dementia Learning and all those details up
with our show notes. And as always, if you've missed
any of them, give us a call at the radio station.
One 308 4746.
S1 (14:48):
Thank you for listening to Vision Xtra with Peter Greco.
You can find this interview on Apple, Google, Spotify, or
your favorite podcast platform. This show was produced in the
Adelaide studios of Vision Australia Radio.
On Vision Australia Radio. This is Vision Xtra with Peter Greco.
S2 (00:25):
Well, I'm really pleased to welcome to the program from
the Dementia Australia, the director for the centre for Dementia Learning,
Doctor David Sykes. David, welcome. Thanks so much for your time.
Really appreciate you speaking to us.
S3 (00:35):
Thanks very much, Peter, and hello to your listeners.
S2 (00:38):
Now you've just launched something, but it's got a very
catchy name. Uh, tell us a bit about Tell Tina.
S3 (00:43):
Yeah, we're really excited to launch. Uh, tell Tina Tilt.
Tina is, uh, a fantastic resource that is really aimed
at workers, uh, supporting someone living with dementia to really
help them to assess what their current strengths are in
relation to their skills and knowledge, and also areas of development.
(01:06):
We think this is really important because a lot of, uh,
particularly aged care providers, there's a real need to build
the capability and capacity of their staff in how they
best support someone living with dementia. And so this tool,
which is tied into the recently launched National Dementia Education
and Training Standards framework, I know it's a long title,
(01:29):
but that actually sets national standards for dementia education. So
we've mapped this tool against that. And so it will
provide a really valuable resource, not just for individuals who
want to know how they can improve their knowledge and
skill to better support people living with dementia, but also
to aged care providers, because there is a back end
(01:51):
which holds all the data from the app and gives
them a really great picture of what the strengths of
their staff are and where they need to target further
education to really build their capability.
S2 (02:04):
It's kind of a live document, if I can put
it that way. It's kind of this is not it,
not all about it. There's more to come or that
there's more to can be developed from this.
S3 (02:13):
Well, this ties into the fact that we've got a
range of dementia education programmes online face to face, as
well as some based on the Ascani app that are
really designed to improve the workforce capability around dementia practice.
And we're particularly known both locally and internationally for our
(02:33):
use of technology to improve learning outcomes. So we've been
delivering programmes with virtual reality for over a decade now.
It really helped to put people in the shoes of
someone living with dementia and give them real insights onto
what it might be like and how that informs their
their practice and the best way to support someone living
(02:54):
with dementia.
S2 (02:55):
The kind of onset of dementia has been described as
a tsunami. I'm not sure if that's emotive talk, but
I guess suffice to say that it's an area in
terms of people's expertise and people's employment opportunities that is
going to just continue to grow.
S3 (03:09):
Yes. Look, sadly, Peter, there's no Certainly no cure in sight.
And the numbers, as you quite rightly point out, does
continue to rise with well over 400,000 Australians currently living
with dementia. And that's expected to, uh, certainly well go
well over the million by 2050. So, you know, this
(03:29):
really is a crisis for our community. But communities across
the globe, as we continue to see that be the case.
And then, of course, we've got younger onset dementia, which
affects people under the age of 65, and there's about
25,000 Australians in that situation. And then even more tragic again,
you've got, um, childhood dementia, so much smaller numbers, but
(03:52):
still equally tragic. The impact that has on on very
young lives.
S2 (03:57):
This information, this can be applicable to those working in
the area, regardless of what age the person that has
dementia has.
S3 (04:03):
Absolutely. So if you're working in aged care and disability care,
in healthcare, at whatever age and stage, that person living
with dementia is that this resource provides an invaluable insight
into where your strengths lie, and where your opportunities to
improve on a personal front. And that helps your employer
(04:25):
if they're able to access the the back end and
actually get a report out of what their staff's capability is,
also helps guide our education providers like ourselves, in making
sure we map out programs to the new standards so
that that can be really targeted, because we know with
the staff shortages in whether it's health aged or disability, um,
(04:48):
that it's really difficult to release staff to attend training,
whether that's face to face. So you want to make
sure that training is very well targeted, to make sure
it's it's getting the appropriate level of knowledge and skill
to those workers that they require.
S2 (05:03):
That's a bit of a catch 22 situation, Dave, because,
you know, it's difficult to release staff because obviously, you know,
it's critical that they're at work. But By the same token,
they're probably pretty thirsty to get more information and be
better at what they do as well. So you kind
of want to have the best of both worlds if
you can.
S3 (05:18):
Yes, absolutely. And and hopefully they are thirsty for it. Um,
certainly whenever they've done surveys of, uh, particularly aged care workforce, um,
the two areas that uh, staff normally ask for more
training in is dementia and palliative care. So they're the
two kind of standout areas.
S2 (05:36):
What about in terms of, um, the sort of research
or the work that's gone into it, as you said,
you're recognised internationally. So in terms of, I guess, the
sort of IP, if you like, that's gone into this.
Are you comfortable with it and, you know, pleased with
the way that you've kind of gathered the information?
S3 (05:53):
Yeah, we're very pleased with how it's, uh, how it's
come up. We've learned a lot over the years with
these kind of training needs, analysis type tools. Um, some
of our early ones were very comprehensive, but probably too
comprehensive for anyone to really spend the time completing. So
we've we've learnt learned a lot about making this much
more targeted, short and sharp. The back end of it
(06:15):
is very much based on validated tools. Um, so we
we can be comfortable and confident that the, the data
that's coming out of it for to inform providers workforce
planning is accurate. We also having having it on our
ask any app platform. It's a platform we've uh had
(06:37):
going for a number of years now that we've developed
up that app with home care providers to really, um,
give them education, uh, in the palm of their hand.
That is very much driven by the workers. So it's
not intended to give them what is dementia or signs
and symptoms. It's really intended to actually give them. What
(06:58):
specifically do they need some help with right now they're
about to go and assist Mrs. Smith have a shower
at home. Uh, what are some of the things they
might need to think about with that? So it is
very much a learner driven resource and complements a suite
of programs that we have. In other contexts. So for
our face to face, we've got a probably a multi
(07:20):
award winning Ed.D. program which uses the virtual reality. And that's, uh,
puts you in the shoes of Eddie, who's someone living
with dementia and getting up in the middle of the
night to try and find the toilet. Very common experience
that many carers tell us about. And the level of
discomfort and distress for experiences in a built environment that's
(07:41):
unfriendly to him. And then you get the experience of
where there's been some environmental changes and you go through
that scenario again and have the discussion in the workshop
around what does that mean? And we find that that
actually gives people real empathy for, um, someone living with
dementia because they experience the frustration, they experience the annoyance,
(08:03):
the irritation that comes from some of the difficulties that
living with dementia confronts people with the other one that, uh,
online is um, uh, talk with Ted, and that's an
avatar that we programmed using artificial intelligence. And so really
helps people to learn how to communicate effectively with someone
(08:26):
living with dementia. And you're actually there to help Ted
have a share. But if the first thing you do is, um,
try and get him to have a shower, I can
tell you it's going to end badly. Uh, because you
really need to engage with Ted. Uh, introduce yourself, understand
who he is as a person and what's important to him.
Before you start to look at how you best support
(08:47):
him to have a shower. So that's another really great
one that, uh, is available online for people to do
that can teach them a lot about some really solid
ways of connecting and engaging with someone living with dementia.
S2 (09:02):
And in terms of your timeliness of this, if you like,
I think there were some changes that were, um, suggested
that might have happened in July. I think that's been
pushed back to the 1st of November. So, uh, again,
this is very, very timely from from that point of view.
S3 (09:14):
Look, absolutely. We're, we're we're thrilled that in the strengthened
aged care standards that, as you say, have been certainly
the implementation of the new legislation has been pushed back
to November now. But it does mean for the first time,
we're seeing in the standards the actual reference to dementia,
and there is going to be greater expectations on certainly
aged care providers to demonstrate what they're doing to ensure
(09:37):
that their staff are appropriately trained to deliver the best
possible care to someone living with dementia. And so this
tool arrives in a timely fashion. On top of the
recently released National Dementia Education and Training Standards framework, to
really help them do the necessary workforce planning, as well
(09:58):
as being able to demonstrate to the Aged Care Quality
and Safety Commission what efforts they're they're undertaking to ensure
that their staff are appropriately trained.
S2 (10:07):
Yeah, that's very good, David, in terms of people that
might be caring for someone with dementia at home. Is
there anything in this for them, if you like. I'm
thinking in terms of, um, you know, might might be
a spouse or even a child that might be caring for,
you know, a relative with dementia at home.
S3 (10:24):
Look, they can certainly, um, utilise the app. Obviously it's
not designed. It is designed for the paid workforce, but
they can certainly undertake it. But also they can certainly
utilise the Ask Any app which is free to download.
And that can give them some really practical resources for
how they can best support their loved one. Um, the
vast majority of people living with dementia in this country
(10:47):
are supported by over 1.7 million carers. The majority of
those are in fact families and carers, um, and unpaid carers.
So we know that's probably the bigger workforce in lots
of ways, uh, albeit not a workforce. Uh, so Ask
Annie is a really valuable resource that anyone can access
(11:07):
and can give them some incredibly valuable tips, strategies, education information.
It's no substitute for training, but it's certainly is a
very accessible resource. When we know families and carers are
often very time poor, juggling work and family and caring
and other commitments, as well as supporting a loved one
(11:29):
living with dementia.
S2 (11:30):
We've had no end of discussions with Carers and Carers
Australia regarding the incredible work that a lot of their
members do and, you know, I guess in a sense that, well,
I'm sure to those that are involved it doesn't go unnoticed,
but maybe to us that a little bit removed it might.
David Watt without getting into trouble, what about in terms
of government support just in general terms or in particular
(11:51):
with this resource? How has that been for you?
S3 (11:53):
There hasn't been specific government support for this particular in
terms of funding, government support in terms of the commission,
the Commission, we've certainly been very interested in the development
of have told Tina as a resource that they can
potentially seek information from aged care providers that might have
used this resource. Um, and certainly direct providers to the
(12:17):
use of the resource if they seem to be not
doing a level of planning for building the dementia capability
of their workforce. So it certainly had that support. We
do deliver other programs to the aged care workforce that
are funded by government. So we have Dementia Essentials, which
is a unit of competency out of the cert three
(12:38):
and individual support that we deliver to the aged care workforce.
There's some leadership programs that we're just preparing to deliver
now that we're in, uh, another financial year. There's de-escalation,
which is or DSC, which is another program we've developed
using virtual reality that really helps the aged care workforce
(12:59):
deal with situations where someone is, you know, has behaviour
has Behaviors change and have a best respond to that
situation in a way that supports that person living with dementia.
Recognizing the behavior can be a key way in which
someone living with dementia communicates. Very often an unmet need. Um,
(13:19):
and that's important to respond to those situations in a
positive and supportive way.
S2 (13:25):
Now, just before I leave a little bit of a
tongue in cheek question, who comes up with all these names? Annie. Tina. Ted. Eddie.
You got a great. Uh. Someone's got a great. We've
got a great imagination there.
S4 (13:36):
We've got a great family, haven't we?
S3 (13:38):
So. Yes. Look, look, Tina, what's embedded in Tina, of course,
is the, um, Tina or training needs analysis. So I
think that you'll see the way it's written. It's a
capital T, capital N capital A with a small I.
So there's a bit of a bit of a trick
to the, um, Tina, uh, name there. The other ones, uh, look,
(14:00):
you know, various processes we go through to identify what's
the best way to promote those with Ask Any? Pretty
much a name that resonated with the home care workforce,
and Ask Annie is a more experienced, uh, home care
staff member that they can go to for advice. So
that's kind of the thinking behind that. Of course, we've
(14:22):
now rolled that app out to, uh, care and uh,
other settings as well. But certainly, again, for us it's
around personalizing the experience of dementia.
S2 (14:33):
That's, uh, Doctor David Sykes there. He's the director for
the center for Dementia Learning and all those details up
with our show notes. And as always, if you've missed
any of them, give us a call at the radio station.
One 308 4746.
S1 (14:48):
Thank you for listening to Vision Xtra with Peter Greco.
You can find this interview on Apple, Google, Spotify, or
your favorite podcast platform. This show was produced in the
Adelaide studios of Vision Australia Radio.
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Whether you’re a scaredy-cat or a brave bat, this collection of episodes from iHeartPodcasts will put you in the Halloween spirit. Binge stories, frights, and more that may keep you up at night!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.