October 10, 2024 • 31 mins
Bestselling author and futurist Michael McQueen helped some of the world’s best-known brands navigate change and stay ahead of the curve. In this episode, he’s taking a big picture view of the increasing demand on data caused by AI and how AI in general is shaping modern workforces across Australian businesses.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Vocus Inspire, the podcast full of brilliant ideas
for business.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, I'm Luke Coleman, head of government and corporate affairs
at Vocus, Australia's leading specialist fibre and network solutions provider.
Before we get things underway, we want to acknowledge and
pay our respects to the traditional custodians of the land
from wherever you're listening. In this podcast, we dive headfirst
into what's on the minds of Australian business and government
(00:30):
leaders to help inspire you and your organisation to go forward,
go further, and go faster. So let's go.
Hi and welcome to the Vocus Inspire podcast. I'm Luke Coleman,
and today we're joined by Michael McQueen, a multi-award winning speaker,
(00:52):
change strategist, and best-selling author of 10 books. His clients
include Google, Toyota, and Mastercard.
And he has helped some of the world's most successful
brands navigate uncertainty and stay ahead of the curve. Today
we're taking a big picture view of the increasing demand
on data caused by AI and how AI is shaping
(01:15):
modern workforces across Australian businesses.
Michael understands what it takes to thrive in a rapidly
evolving world. Widely recognised for having his finger on the
pulse of business and culture. Uh, we are welcoming today
futurist and change strategist Michael McQueen. Michael, thanks for being
with us. It's my pleasure. Good to spend some time chatting.
(01:38):
Now, you've helped a lot of brands navigate change. Tell us,
what are some of the common challenges that businesses faced,
particularly when they're integrating AI into their operations? I think
the first thing is being very clear on the scope
of what artificial intelligence actually is, and there are certainly
different levels of artificial intelligence, then you've got terms like
machine learning, mixed in. So being really clear on what
(02:00):
the scope of what you're looking to do is, and
then also,
Addressing some of the imagined fears that I think a
lot of leaders and just humans have, I mean a
lot of people when they think about artificial intelligence, their
minds race to,
Terminator style bots that are gonna take over our systems
and lock us out or even just, you know, kill
off humanity and so even just addressing some of those
(02:21):
fears and those in some cases, mis misplaced senses of terror.
And so I think being clear that on the fact
that AI is already here, it is still narrow in
its scope. So even the most advanced AI tools we're
using at the moment are still in the first level
of AI or artificial intelligence, that's that's narrow AI.
The next one is where we get to general artificial intelligence.
(02:42):
That's what it's often called as the point of singularity.
We're still years away from that. And then super artificial
intelligence is where we head to, you know, that's the
sort of Terminator style stuff. And there's questions as to
whether we'll ever get there at all. So firstly, dealing
with some of the nervousness I think is important, because
if you look around a board table or an executive team,
you've got people in that room,
Who deep down just have reservations. So I think getting
(03:04):
up to speed, understanding the basic terms of reference is
a really good start, and realising that this is already
a part of daily life. I mean, the number of
people I'll speak to will go, ah, I really don't
want to use AI. I'm like, Hey, the truth is,
you already are. Like if you're listening to Spotify, if
you're using Google Maps or Waze, some of your appliances
at home have AI built into them. So I think, yeah,
(03:24):
addressing that is probably the first thing, and then also
just knowing where to start. I think for a lot
of people there's a sense of overwhelm that,
You know, there's so much AI can do, where he begins,
that's certainly what I see time and time again in
the conversations that I'm having right now.
And tell me, how is AI reshaping modern workforces, particularly
in Australian businesses? Are there some specific trends or shifts
(03:47):
that you've observed? Yes, I think the first thing we're
seeing is AI at the moment is, is becoming something
that helps gain efficiency for companies. You know, we've talked
a lot in the last few years about productivity and
just how stubbornly difficult it is to increase productivity in
the Australian labour market.
And there's lots of reasons for that, but I think
AI can be a real gift in actually working alongside humans.
(04:08):
And it's a, it's almost a cliche, but you've probably
heard the cliche, this idea that, you know, your job's
probably not going to be taken by AI, but it
could be taken by a human who knows how to
use AI. And so I think that's probably the biggest
shift we're seeing is seeing this is not a thing
that'll obliterate professions or, or roles.
But give you superpowers you didn't have before, and I
(04:29):
think the best way to think about AI and as
I'm working with clients right now, I use this as
a metaphor cos I think it's helpful, it's,
You, you need to, for AI to be sensible to
invest in and make it part of your strategy, it
needs to be one of two things, either a painkiller
or a multivitamin. So if it's a painkiller, it is
helping you, your organisation, your staff, solve headaches. What are
the things that slow you down that make things cumbersome
(04:51):
and clunky and bureaucratic? How do you streamline processes? If
it's a multivitamin, it's giving you superpowers you didn't have before.
Stuff that you just couldn't do anywhere near as quickly
or at the scale you did. So,
Essentially AI needs needs to be one of those two
things or both, if it's worth investing in. Um, but
I would say at the moment there's a lot of
hype around AI. In fact, the term you may have
(05:12):
heard of is AI washing. It's a bit like the
um the greenwashing we saw um a number of years
ago when companies would try and,
Uh, hype up their green credentials by using the language
of sustainability, but not actually changing anything substantive. We're seeing
the same thing right now with AI. There's a lot
of companies that just whack the label AI on their,
on their products, and suddenly it sounds sexy and cool,
(05:33):
but nothing's actually changed and it's not really using AI
in a meaningful way. So, I think, you know, getting
rid of some of the hype or cutting through that
hype and getting super clear on is it a painkiller
or a multivitamin, ideally both, and that's when you need to,
that's where you need to be investing.
I have seen so much AI washing lately, but I've
never heard that phrase until you just mentioned it. Only
(05:54):
a couple of weeks ago I was on X and
somebody had posted a uh,
A computer peripherals company that had launched an AI mouse
with the comment, oh God, just make it stop. And
I thought, I can feel that, just make it stop.
It is just so ridiculous with the AI washing. Uh,
but Michael, tell me, for businesses that are looking to
(06:16):
stay ahead in a world where technology and market demands
are constantly evolving, uh, what advice do you have for them?
I think it's really the same sort of advice you
would have with any digital implementation, and that is to
start with the customer first. I mean I think I'm
seeing a lot of companies and this is a a
repeated theme, and you've seen this for years with all
(06:36):
sorts of technologies that have been implemented, but we start with,
What makes sense to us? What would make our lives
easier as the company, you know, what'd be, what'd be
cool and sexy and interesting and new and innovative and
really good when we do our annual report because it's,
you know, we're cutting new ground. But take a step back,
are you actually adding any value for the customer? Are
we starting with the customer first or are we bolting
(06:57):
on what what we think would be great from our
perspective as an organisation? So I think starting with a customer,
Is essential because, and it's not just your current customers too. I,
I read a great book a few months ago called
The Disruption Mindset by Charlene Lee, and it's such a
good book because what Charlene looks at is a series
of case studies of businesses that preempted the next thing
in their industry.
And got ready before their competitors did, and then rode
(07:20):
that wave of opportunity. And one of the phrases in
Charlene's book that I thought was so profound was she said,
if you're going to hedge against disruption, you need to be,
you need to prioritise the needs of your future customers
of your current ones. Which is, yeah, for a lot
of us, it's such a, a bit of a head
shift because we get so focused once who, what are
the current customers. If we are customer-focused, it is current
(07:41):
customer focused, as opposed to who's coming? Who do we
need to be ready for in the years ahead.
And then how do we make sure that everything we're
implementing and working on is focused on that, rather than
just because it's new and sexy and cool. So I
think that's probably the most important thing to keep in
front of mind for businesses who are trying to adapt
and evolve quickly.
But don't want to just do things that are going
(08:01):
to cost a whole lot of money but not add
real value. That's a great point. And you mentioned again earlier, the, uh,
the hype cycle around AI and I think we saw
only recently that perhaps some of the shine had come
off it. There was, uh, you know, share prices of
some of the major AI players took a bit of
a crash, uh, about a month ago, as people.
(08:21):
People started to come to terms with, uh, with the
reality behind the hype. So maybe it's, it's less of
a case of what AI can do right now and,
and more of what it could potentially be doing over
the next decade. So, Michael, what are some of the
emerging trends in AI and data management that businesses should
be aware of over the next 5 or even 10 years?
(08:44):
Well, I think there's a couple of really interesting trends
coming out that will be really cool to watch unfold.
Conversational AI, I think, is really significant. You know, the
ability for us to engage with these platforms as we
would another human being, as opposed to using keyboards or
screens or what we currently do now. Um, so conversational
AI is gonna be very, very interesting to watch, and
it's getting so much more lifelike. Even some of the
(09:06):
things Google Gemini and Google have announced with Gemini in
the last few days are really significant, far more conversational
engagement than what we're seeing even with,
The most recent update to Chat GPT and other platforms
out there. So I think conversational AI biometrics is another one.
I think we're gonna see a lot more investment in
that space. It is still a bit clunky though. There's
actually a story, I think 48 hours ago, I don't
(09:28):
know when this will go to air or when people
will be dialling and listening to it, but there was
an example of at a big arena in California, I
just opened multi-billion dollar new,
Um, stadium arena, and they'd had a Bruno Mars concert.
And so one of the things they've built into this
arena is facial recognition for entry. So, no tickets, nothing
printed off, no, you know, QR codes on your phone,
(09:48):
you just, uh, scan your face to enter the arena.
So the Bruno Mars concert was such a debacle with
this biometric tech that the, um, concerts started at 2
hours late. And so I think this is where we've
got to be super mindful that when we're in when
we're implementing quite revolutionary technologies that are relatively new,
We need to make sure we've tested them rigorously before
(10:09):
sending them into the wild, and I think that's a
good example of just that. I think in terms of
other data management specific trends, I think people need to be,
or companies need to be far more aware of where
their data is going, who has access to it. Um,
there was a legal case lodged uh last Friday against
General Motors.
Uh, alleging that they were selling customer usage data of
(10:29):
their vehicles, so that how the customers use their vehicles,
their cars, that data was being shared with insurance companies
without the knowledge of the car owner. Like that's messy
in all ways. I mean it's ethically, it's dicey as anything.
I think we're gonna see more and more of these
cases come to light where companies that are not, aren't
really strict with the use of their data, who has access,
(10:51):
how that's been monetized, what sort of disclosures are being
given to customers.
Some really big damage can be done to customer to
to brands, brand reputation and that bond of trust if
companies aren't really careful with that stuff.
Mm. Now, it might be a bit too early to
say if you've seen any businesses that have really harnessed
(11:11):
AI to drive significant business growth. I think there's a
lot of businesses out there that are probably putting a
toe in the water with AI. I think, uh, at Vocus,
where we're using Microsoft co-pilot for a limited number of
staff to,
Test out what they can do with it. We've got
our own AI powered internal chat assistant, which, you know,
(11:31):
helps us to search through our, our own internal wikis
and that sort of thing. But Michael, have you got
any particular success stories or case studies that come to
mind where you've seen an Australian business, uh, really effectively
harness AI?
Yeah, one of them that I was very impressed with
recently is, um, a WA based company called Heidi, and
(11:53):
Heidi spelled the name that that the person's name is spelled, um,
is actually a, a, an AI tool that works ambiently
in doctor's practises. So the patient has to give permission
for it to be running, but it basically listens in
on patient consults and then transcribes those notes, automatically populates
the doctor's records for that patient.
But this can also draught up or write letters to
(12:15):
specialists or referrals or scripts. And the great thing about
this is, I mean, in doing some work in the,
the medical space, particularly with GPs in the last few months,
they are flat out. They are so busy. And the
thing that's taking up so much of their time is,
you know, faffing about with paperwork. And so the administrative
burden is huge. And so seeing things like that it's
an Aussie company that's doing some really great stuff.
(12:38):
Solving a, a, a very meaningful problem for companies. And
you mentioned co-pilot, so co-pilot's been used by TA, the
insurer TA, in the last few months, in fact, a
few weeks ago they announced they on average, the people
using co-pilot are saving about 1 day a week, so
about 20% of man hour time being saved each week
by using that tool. I, I'm not sure exactly how
(12:58):
they arrived at that figure, but even if it's half right.
Or a little bit overcooked, that's really significant in terms
of the cost savings. And the other one that's interesting
is Coles. So Coles Myer have started using generative AI
to monitor um 40,000 comments or bits of feedback online
that customers are sharing on review sites or social media
about shopping in store with them cause you can't monitor that,
(13:21):
that amount of feedback every given on any given week.
Manually, or even some of the algorithms we've used in
the past, generative AI is really good at essentially keeping
a tab on what's being said and then summarising that
into actionable insights. So Coles are doing some really cool
stuff in that space. So I think that's that's a
really good example of when you're dealing with a large
data sets, how does generative AI allow you to do
things you just couldn't otherwise do? I guess a part
(13:43):
of it is not just having the tools available for
a business to use, but also,
Having a company culture that enables their use or even
encourages their use. So, Michael, how can a business ensure
that their organisational culture and structure adapt effectively to the
(14:04):
rapid changes that are being brought about by AI? Well,
I think from a structure perspective, what's important is you've got,
The key players around the table involved in the conversation.
And this is where I see often, you know, chief
risk officers, for instance, or people who are in compliance functions.
If they're not involved early on in the process of
developing AI tools for an organisation, they instantly and instinctively
(14:28):
become roadblocks. It's like, it won't work because, and then
they'll start the list.
But it's important that anyone in, in compliance or risk
functions that they are not handbrakes on innovation, but enablers
of smart innovation. Then we've got to have those voices
at the table that often, by nature, are gonna be
more measured, more concerned about the legal risks, the privacy risks,
the reputational risks, and involving them early on. Often we
(14:50):
see this stuff being driven by the CTE.
the CIO, maybe someone involved in sales and marketing and
growth functions of a business, they get all, you know,
frothy and excited about the potential for this stuff, technically,
and then try and get, um, regulatory compliance peeps on board.
And that, that really goes well. So I think from
the very outset, structure wise, making sure at an executive
(15:12):
suite level, you've got the people, you know, all of,
all of the people who are gonna have, have significant
stakes in this at the table and part of the conversation,
right from the outset.
Um, I think from a culture perspective, I think this
is important because I am seeing this play out right
now in a number of the clients I'm working with,
be they mortgage brokers, travel agents, um, people involved in
(15:33):
accounting or finance, where a lot of what makes those
businesses really hum is not the technical things they do,
but it's the relationships they build with clients, it's the
trust they build. And so starting with what actually represents
value to our customers, and if it is the high
touch stuff,
Tread carefully, don't just implement technology because it's gonna make
things more efficient if by making things more efficient, you're
(15:55):
removing that personal touch that is part of the secret sauce. Um,
and I, I think a good way to think about
innovation with AI and I wanna see any sort of
innovation is, you think about like, if you're renovating a house,
the first thing you're gonna want to ask is what
are the load bearing walls here?
Because if you take out a load bearing wall, the
whole thing is gonna come crashing down. So, I mean,
if it's not load bearing, you know, knock yourself out,
(16:16):
knock the wall out. I mean, it doesn't matter. You can,
you can readjust anything if it's not a load bearing wall.
Even if it's a load bearing wall, you can paint
it a different colour. You can punch a window under
that wall, but you better leave it there. And so
you think about for your value proposition or your company,
what are those load bearing walls, those key things that
are a part of your DNA, your ethos, what
Presents value to the customer what builds trust, I would
(16:37):
say tread very carefully in implementing technology that could erode
those things. So I think hopefully that metaphor of load-bearing
and non-load bearing walls is a good way of getting
really clear on what are the cultural pieces we don't
want to mess with or automate out of existence, because
I think doing so in the long term will do
significantly more damage than the efficiency gains in the short term.
(16:58):
You'd mentioned earlier the uh the case study of a
a a GP or a doctor using AI to take
transcriptions of meetings with patients, and I guess the, the
ethical considerations of using AI are something we need to take,
you know, really seriously.
So tell me about what ethical consideration should companies be
keeping in mind when they're deploying AI, particularly when it
(17:21):
comes to data privacy and security. Yeah, it's tricky because
at one point you want to be super upfront and
candid with people, um, with your customers, with the general population,
the reality being, most people don't understand this stuff enough
so even the mention of it.
Makes people freak out. So for instance, you've got, you know,
Bunnings and a number of key retailers in Australia, 18
(17:42):
months ago, there was a sign erected near the entrance
to the stores that facial recognition and biometric technology was
being used in store, and you know, essentially by walking
onto the premises you gave permission for companies to use that. Now,
from a legal standpoint, the company's like, oh we've ticked
the boxes, like from a privacy perspective, we've been upfront,
we've been transparent.
But I mean, all this talk was for someone walking
(18:03):
into the store to take a photo, and this thing
went viral instantly on Instagram, like, who, what the heck
are they doing? Why are they scanning our faces in Bunnings?
So you obviously want to try and be upfront and candid,
have full transparency, but part of that process needs to
be an education exercise, cause if you just let people
know that you're using technology, if people don't understand the
scope of that technology and why you're using it,
(18:25):
Yeah, it does much more harm than good. And so
I think privacy wise in terms of data security, being
on the front foot is not just about disclosure, but
also education. And you can see how wrong that can
go if, if, if you get it, if you get
it wrong. It's also about being very careful of, you know,
some of the risks of hastily implementing technology when you
haven't thought through the knock-on effects and the contingencies. So co-pilot,
(18:47):
for instance, is a great example. You know chatting with
some of the crew from Microsoft recently, they shared a
few case studies of,
Um, schools that have begun using, um, co-pilot, um, in
a school college setting, and they didn't have the permissions
set correctly, they just had implemented this and suddenly you
had students who had access to stuff that only the
principal should be able to see. And so I think
implementing these things you need to be really prudent and
(19:09):
sensible about the permissions cause otherwise,
It stuff can go wrong much more quickly at a
much greater scale, and because of this sort of technology.
Off the back of that, the next question fits with
that theme perfectly, which is, what advice would you have
for leaders who are hesitant about embracing AI and the
data-driven changes that it brings. Now, they might be hesitant.
(19:31):
Because of those, you know, those ethical considerations you've just mentioned,
they might be hesitant because they've heard horror stories of,
of like the kind that you've just mentioned then, but uh,
what advice would you have for those leaders who are
a bit reluctant about jumping into AI? Well, firstly, I
would say start with the companies you've already got trust in.
So for instance, I I still think one of the
(19:52):
most impressive players in this space right now is Microsoft.
I think Microsoft are the most trustworthy, the most reliable,
they've got the best,
Technology set up from a security standpoint, if you look
at co-pilot, client's data is not being used to train
that model, whereas if you're using OpenAI's technology with Chat GPT,
what you're putting into it is being used to train
(20:13):
the model. And that's the same with many of the
other models as well. So, I think starting with companies
you've already got a high level of trust with and
in is important. So I think Apple will be interesting
to watch because there is a large focus on privacy
and security from for Apple, and they've,
I mean what they're calling is not artificial intelligence, of
course they called it their own thing, so it's Apple intelligence,
so we'll see what that looks like in the coming
(20:33):
few months, but I think, starting with companies you trust
with and aligning yourself with them is smart because it's
a lot of small operators who,
Um, are, are doing really clever stuff, but we don't
really know. Most of us don't know, and I'm in
that same boat. Like, what's under the hood? Well, how
is this technology actually working? And if they haven't had
the money to invest in putting the, the proper checks
and balances in place, I'd be nervous about putting really
(20:56):
sensitive data into some of these models and allowing it
to have access to the back end of my business
and my system. So I think starting with trusted big
brands at this point is probably still sensible. So Microsoft
would be my go to.
Um, I'd also say for most indus for most businesses
you've got,
Industry associations you might be a part of, and there's
the wisdom of the crowd. I get a sense of
(21:18):
who in your industry, who of your colleagues are doing
what and what are they finding that's working. Um, cause there's,
everyone's trying different stuff right now, that's part of the
process of you, you embracing new technologies. Everyone's trying different
things at different rates. Let's leverage that shared experience and wisdom.
And so I would say industry associations are increasingly valuable
(21:38):
as that central point of truth around what's useful.
What's worth considering, what sort of pitfalls they can be
to look out for, because I think most industries, whether
you're dealing with say the financial services industry or franchising
or retail or pharmaceutical or medical,
The applications in all of these industries are quite different,
and so you want to get a sense of what's
working in your sector that is somewhat proven, um, because
(22:00):
others like you are using them. Now, Michael, you've been
involved in advising business leaders about their strategies since AI,
you know, before AI was even a thing, certainly to
the degree that it's become over the last 18 months
or so. So tell me, how has your own approach
to business strategy and foresight evolved?
(22:21):
With the advancements that we've seen in AI and data
analytics over the last 18 months or so. Yeah, so
if I look at how I'm using it on a
daily basis in my own, from my own perspective, I'm
using it for certainly some research functions. So when I'm
sort of sitting in your seat and doing the interviewing
in podcasts and the like, if I've got to write
the bio for an individual, I'll often use chat GPT
(22:44):
to write the bio, and I'll get it to tweak
it and change the tone and use specific prompts to
get it.
Short, chart, snappy. And I mean, that's something that previously,
for every intro I do for a guest might have
taken me 25 minutes. It now takes me 5 or
6 at max. So, I think things like that I'm
finding really useful. I'm not using it yet to do
any writing of book content or article content, but I
(23:07):
can see the benefit of that at some point. I'm
just trying to figure out ethically how I feel about,
Writing content that's got my name on it, even if
I didn't do the heavy lifting of writing it. So
I still haven't quite figured out where I land there.
I am using it for image generation. So, um, mid
journey would be one. I know that we've a number
of the, the technology design players, Adobe, for instance, have
(23:27):
suites for developing AI generated imagery. So I've done a
little bit of that for PowerPoint slides and for client
stuff that I'm doing.
Um, it's still a bit clunky though, if you look
at most of the AI image generation, um, tools, they're
really still not very good at things like legs, arms, fingers,
like they get all mangled and messy, so there are
limitations still in how good these tools are.
(23:48):
Um, but I think we'll see that get better and better.
So I'm using it for image generation, and the other
thing I'm using it for is for music. Um, so
a company called SoundDraw.io, I've started using for like, if
I'm doing a, an audiobook, for instance, I'll get it
to create soundtracks that are original pieces of music that
aren't bound by copyright, just because it doesn't have to
be amazingly brilliant as a masterpiece. It's just gonna be
(24:10):
an intro track for an audiobook or a podcast. And
so I find, I, I'm using it for those things.
So those are the main ways that I'm using it
so far.
It's interesting, isn't it, that a lot of the features
that I've seen colleagues using for, say, replying to emails
or writing a speech or even writing a, you know,
an internal communication, as someone who started my career as
(24:33):
a journalist, I can immediately,
Sniff from a mile away when it's been written by AI, uh,
and I'm sure you've had a similar experience. It's just
got all of these hallmarks of, you know, that wasn't
a human being that wrote this, or if it was
a human being, they need to go back and do
English all over again. That's right. I'm sure it'll get
better in coming years though.
Now, Michael, we've come up to a segment where all
(24:55):
of our guests get to put in one call, one request,
one wish to all leaders of enterprise and government organisations
to either avoid missing an incredible opportunity or to realise
a great opportunity. So Michael, if you had one wish
for all business leaders, what would it be and why?
(25:16):
I think the main thing I would say right now,
and it's with AI but for so many things in
a fast moving time, it is to adopt a, um,
a posture of radical or insatiable curiosity. How do you
adopt that posture of student rather than critic? And it's
so easy to see the new as a threat when you're,
when you've got expertise and experience behind you. Um, but
(25:36):
I think that sort of certainty is one of the
most dangerous postures we can be in. So, erring on
the side of curiosity rather than certainty.
Is probably the most essential mindset or posture for any
leader in the next few years. And it reminds me
of that, that great quote from one of the OG futurists,
Alvin Toffler, who said that the illiterate of the future
won't be those who can't read and write. It'll be
those who can't learn, unlearn and relearn. And I'm like,
(25:59):
that is so true for all of us right now.
There are things we know about our industries, about our roles,
about our organisations that were true.
2 years ago, 3 years ago, 5 years ago, even
6 months ago, but then maybe not as true now
as they once were. Are we willing to step back,
not allow our identities to become attached to the way
we do things and rethink them? Hold, hold our, our
(26:20):
best practises loosely and be willing to reconsider and relearn.
I think that's gonna be essential for all of us.
That is a great line.
Uh, Michael, we love to finish with a rapid fire
segment where I throw a series of really quick questions
at you, throw back at me the first thing that
pops into your mind. So, what is your favourite piece
of technology?
(26:42):
Oh, OK, this is gonna sound a bit strange, but
cos it's not all that sexy, but a QR code
is still one of my favourite things. I use QR
codes as a presenter constantly.
Cause if I'm referring to a piece of research, I
don't want to just say, a study says X, Y,
and Z. I want to give people the resource to
go back and read later, so I'll give them a
QR code on, in my slide deck that'll take them
(27:02):
straight to that to download. I've, I've found that in pre-COVID,
I never used QR codes. I used them constantly and
they're such a simple, portable, universal way to communicate content. So,
Like I would say, not super sexy, but QR codes, definitely. Brilliant,
it's the, the modern day footnote that people can actually
go on Linked to without having to go hunting for it.
(27:23):
Question two, how do you disconnect?
Uh, for me, planes. Plans are like a sacred space.
So when I get on a plane, particularly that bit
where you push back from the gate and you're not
at cruising altitude, yet, that's a good 25 to 30
minutes where I genuinely relish having my phone off, being
out of reach. Sometimes I listen to a podcast or
(27:44):
I'll journal or write or read. Sometimes I literally just
look out the window because it's giving my brain space
and time to just switch off from
The frenetic pace of, of stuff that I'm surrounded by.
So I find that, I love that. In fact, the
hardest thing about the COVID years when travel all stopped
for a couple of years was not having that. I
got so used to that being the rhythm because I'm
travelling all the time. That, that window, I absolutely love.
(28:06):
You and I are kindred spirits. I can't think of
anywhere else I would rather be on Earth than alone
on a plane, on a long haul flight where I
can read my Kindle or listen to a podcast. I'm
absolutely with you on that.
Uh, question number 3, what's the most important thing you
do for your wellbeing?
Uh, I think, well, from a mental and emotional perspective,
(28:26):
it'd be journaling. And I do, I, I journal most days,
and I've done that for years. I find that a
really useful exercise. Um, physically, the gym. So I, I,
I do CrossFit a couple of times a week, which
is high octane, high energy, but just the best way
to balance out all the hormones that can get out
of whack in a stressful existence. So I find that
really helpful.
What's one thing that would surprise people about you?
(28:50):
I'm actually very, very low tech. Um, I only use
technology if it's valuable. I'm not particularly interested in the
bells and the whistles. In fact, I only got a
smartwatch about 4 months ago because I,
I did a segment on, um, the Morning show about
one of these smartwatches that had just been released to
the company that I sent through a sample one said, Oh,
you can keep it. So I'm like, Oh, OK. So
I've been using this smartwatch. But up until then, I
(29:12):
had like an old school watch, cause I just liked
the classic timepiece thing. So, I'm a quite a low
tech person, and also a low tech parent. And I
think actually, interestingly, a lot of technology people are low
tech parents, so that would be,
I guess maybe a bit of a surprise cause I'm
in that space of technology all the time, but in
terms of daily life, I actually really like the analogue.
(29:32):
What's the one personal trait most important to success?
Oh, goodness. It's hard, isn't it, to, you know, boil
it down to what I would say probably humility. Because
I just think humility is such an essential ingredient to innovation,
to curiosity as we talked about before. It's what prompts
you to ask questions, to be willing to listen and learn.
The moment you, you know, it's that old saying, the
(29:54):
moment you think you've made it, you've passed it. And so, like,
you know, maintaining humility, particularly once you've achieved success or
got expertise under your belt, is probably, I think, the
most important thing.
Final question, what's one thing that there needs to be
more of in business today?
It's funny, I was listening to a podcast yesterday and, um,
the person I was listening to on this podcast drew
(30:16):
the distinction between being clever and being wise. And I
stopped that. I, I paused for a moment and I thought,
what an interesting dichotomy. And I feel like that's probably
what we need more of is more wisdom and less intelligence,
or less cleverness. You know, we're still in an age
that really rewards the clever and the intelligent, the smart,
but I think wisdom is actually being craved more than
(30:36):
ever before. And I think from an AI perspective, one
of my concerns is that,
Our power is racing ahead of our wisdom, these tools
are getting far, far better and smarter than we have
the ethical frameworks and the wisdom that that that ballasts
humans and as human race to, to deal with it well.
So I think probably wisdom would be the thing I
think we need more than ever.
(30:57):
What a very poignant and philosophical thing to finish on.
I love it. Michael McQueen, it has been an absolute
pleasure talking to you. Thanks so much for joining us
on the Vocus Inspire podcast. It's my pleasure, cheers. Thanks
so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this episode
of Vocus Inspire, and we look forward to bringing you
more inspiration in coming episodes.
Welcome to Vocus Inspire, the podcast full of brilliant ideas
for business.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, I'm Luke Coleman, head of government and corporate affairs
at Vocus, Australia's leading specialist fibre and network solutions provider.
Before we get things underway, we want to acknowledge and
pay our respects to the traditional custodians of the land
from wherever you're listening. In this podcast, we dive headfirst
into what's on the minds of Australian business and government
(00:30):
leaders to help inspire you and your organisation to go forward,
go further, and go faster. So let's go.
Hi and welcome to the Vocus Inspire podcast. I'm Luke Coleman,
and today we're joined by Michael McQueen, a multi-award winning speaker,
(00:52):
change strategist, and best-selling author of 10 books. His clients
include Google, Toyota, and Mastercard.
And he has helped some of the world's most successful
brands navigate uncertainty and stay ahead of the curve. Today
we're taking a big picture view of the increasing demand
on data caused by AI and how AI is shaping
(01:15):
modern workforces across Australian businesses.
Michael understands what it takes to thrive in a rapidly
evolving world. Widely recognised for having his finger on the
pulse of business and culture. Uh, we are welcoming today
futurist and change strategist Michael McQueen. Michael, thanks for being
with us. It's my pleasure. Good to spend some time chatting.
(01:38):
Now, you've helped a lot of brands navigate change. Tell us,
what are some of the common challenges that businesses faced,
particularly when they're integrating AI into their operations? I think
the first thing is being very clear on the scope
of what artificial intelligence actually is, and there are certainly
different levels of artificial intelligence, then you've got terms like
machine learning, mixed in. So being really clear on what
(02:00):
the scope of what you're looking to do is, and
then also,
Addressing some of the imagined fears that I think a
lot of leaders and just humans have, I mean a
lot of people when they think about artificial intelligence, their
minds race to,
Terminator style bots that are gonna take over our systems
and lock us out or even just, you know, kill
off humanity and so even just addressing some of those
(02:21):
fears and those in some cases, mis misplaced senses of terror.
And so I think being clear that on the fact
that AI is already here, it is still narrow in
its scope. So even the most advanced AI tools we're
using at the moment are still in the first level
of AI or artificial intelligence, that's that's narrow AI.
The next one is where we get to general artificial intelligence.
(02:42):
That's what it's often called as the point of singularity.
We're still years away from that. And then super artificial
intelligence is where we head to, you know, that's the
sort of Terminator style stuff. And there's questions as to
whether we'll ever get there at all. So firstly, dealing
with some of the nervousness I think is important, because
if you look around a board table or an executive team,
you've got people in that room,
Who deep down just have reservations. So I think getting
(03:04):
up to speed, understanding the basic terms of reference is
a really good start, and realising that this is already
a part of daily life. I mean, the number of
people I'll speak to will go, ah, I really don't
want to use AI. I'm like, Hey, the truth is,
you already are. Like if you're listening to Spotify, if
you're using Google Maps or Waze, some of your appliances
at home have AI built into them. So I think, yeah,
(03:24):
addressing that is probably the first thing, and then also
just knowing where to start. I think for a lot
of people there's a sense of overwhelm that,
You know, there's so much AI can do, where he begins,
that's certainly what I see time and time again in
the conversations that I'm having right now.
And tell me, how is AI reshaping modern workforces, particularly
in Australian businesses? Are there some specific trends or shifts
(03:47):
that you've observed? Yes, I think the first thing we're
seeing is AI at the moment is, is becoming something
that helps gain efficiency for companies. You know, we've talked
a lot in the last few years about productivity and
just how stubbornly difficult it is to increase productivity in
the Australian labour market.
And there's lots of reasons for that, but I think
AI can be a real gift in actually working alongside humans.
(04:08):
And it's a, it's almost a cliche, but you've probably
heard the cliche, this idea that, you know, your job's
probably not going to be taken by AI, but it
could be taken by a human who knows how to
use AI. And so I think that's probably the biggest
shift we're seeing is seeing this is not a thing
that'll obliterate professions or, or roles.
But give you superpowers you didn't have before, and I
(04:29):
think the best way to think about AI and as
I'm working with clients right now, I use this as
a metaphor cos I think it's helpful, it's,
You, you need to, for AI to be sensible to
invest in and make it part of your strategy, it
needs to be one of two things, either a painkiller
or a multivitamin. So if it's a painkiller, it is
helping you, your organisation, your staff, solve headaches. What are
the things that slow you down that make things cumbersome
(04:51):
and clunky and bureaucratic? How do you streamline processes? If
it's a multivitamin, it's giving you superpowers you didn't have before.
Stuff that you just couldn't do anywhere near as quickly
or at the scale you did. So,
Essentially AI needs needs to be one of those two
things or both, if it's worth investing in. Um, but
I would say at the moment there's a lot of
hype around AI. In fact, the term you may have
(05:12):
heard of is AI washing. It's a bit like the
um the greenwashing we saw um a number of years
ago when companies would try and,
Uh, hype up their green credentials by using the language
of sustainability, but not actually changing anything substantive. We're seeing
the same thing right now with AI. There's a lot
of companies that just whack the label AI on their,
on their products, and suddenly it sounds sexy and cool,
(05:33):
but nothing's actually changed and it's not really using AI
in a meaningful way. So, I think, you know, getting
rid of some of the hype or cutting through that
hype and getting super clear on is it a painkiller
or a multivitamin, ideally both, and that's when you need to,
that's where you need to be investing.
I have seen so much AI washing lately, but I've
never heard that phrase until you just mentioned it. Only
(05:54):
a couple of weeks ago I was on X and
somebody had posted a uh,
A computer peripherals company that had launched an AI mouse
with the comment, oh God, just make it stop. And
I thought, I can feel that, just make it stop.
It is just so ridiculous with the AI washing. Uh,
but Michael, tell me, for businesses that are looking to
(06:16):
stay ahead in a world where technology and market demands
are constantly evolving, uh, what advice do you have for them?
I think it's really the same sort of advice you
would have with any digital implementation, and that is to
start with the customer first. I mean I think I'm
seeing a lot of companies and this is a a
repeated theme, and you've seen this for years with all
(06:36):
sorts of technologies that have been implemented, but we start with,
What makes sense to us? What would make our lives
easier as the company, you know, what'd be, what'd be
cool and sexy and interesting and new and innovative and
really good when we do our annual report because it's,
you know, we're cutting new ground. But take a step back,
are you actually adding any value for the customer? Are
we starting with the customer first or are we bolting
(06:57):
on what what we think would be great from our
perspective as an organisation? So I think starting with a customer,
Is essential because, and it's not just your current customers too. I,
I read a great book a few months ago called
The Disruption Mindset by Charlene Lee, and it's such a
good book because what Charlene looks at is a series
of case studies of businesses that preempted the next thing
in their industry.
And got ready before their competitors did, and then rode
(07:20):
that wave of opportunity. And one of the phrases in
Charlene's book that I thought was so profound was she said,
if you're going to hedge against disruption, you need to be,
you need to prioritise the needs of your future customers
of your current ones. Which is, yeah, for a lot
of us, it's such a, a bit of a head
shift because we get so focused once who, what are
the current customers. If we are customer-focused, it is current
(07:41):
customer focused, as opposed to who's coming? Who do we
need to be ready for in the years ahead.
And then how do we make sure that everything we're
implementing and working on is focused on that, rather than
just because it's new and sexy and cool. So I
think that's probably the most important thing to keep in
front of mind for businesses who are trying to adapt
and evolve quickly.
But don't want to just do things that are going
(08:01):
to cost a whole lot of money but not add
real value. That's a great point. And you mentioned again earlier, the, uh,
the hype cycle around AI and I think we saw
only recently that perhaps some of the shine had come
off it. There was, uh, you know, share prices of
some of the major AI players took a bit of
a crash, uh, about a month ago, as people.
(08:21):
People started to come to terms with, uh, with the
reality behind the hype. So maybe it's, it's less of
a case of what AI can do right now and,
and more of what it could potentially be doing over
the next decade. So, Michael, what are some of the
emerging trends in AI and data management that businesses should
be aware of over the next 5 or even 10 years?
(08:44):
Well, I think there's a couple of really interesting trends
coming out that will be really cool to watch unfold.
Conversational AI, I think, is really significant. You know, the
ability for us to engage with these platforms as we
would another human being, as opposed to using keyboards or
screens or what we currently do now. Um, so conversational
AI is gonna be very, very interesting to watch, and
it's getting so much more lifelike. Even some of the
(09:06):
things Google Gemini and Google have announced with Gemini in
the last few days are really significant, far more conversational
engagement than what we're seeing even with,
The most recent update to Chat GPT and other platforms
out there. So I think conversational AI biometrics is another one.
I think we're gonna see a lot more investment in
that space. It is still a bit clunky though. There's
actually a story, I think 48 hours ago, I don't
(09:28):
know when this will go to air or when people
will be dialling and listening to it, but there was
an example of at a big arena in California, I
just opened multi-billion dollar new,
Um, stadium arena, and they'd had a Bruno Mars concert.
And so one of the things they've built into this
arena is facial recognition for entry. So, no tickets, nothing
printed off, no, you know, QR codes on your phone,
(09:48):
you just, uh, scan your face to enter the arena.
So the Bruno Mars concert was such a debacle with
this biometric tech that the, um, concerts started at 2
hours late. And so I think this is where we've
got to be super mindful that when we're in when
we're implementing quite revolutionary technologies that are relatively new,
We need to make sure we've tested them rigorously before
(10:09):
sending them into the wild, and I think that's a
good example of just that. I think in terms of
other data management specific trends, I think people need to be,
or companies need to be far more aware of where
their data is going, who has access to it. Um,
there was a legal case lodged uh last Friday against
General Motors.
Uh, alleging that they were selling customer usage data of
(10:29):
their vehicles, so that how the customers use their vehicles,
their cars, that data was being shared with insurance companies
without the knowledge of the car owner. Like that's messy
in all ways. I mean it's ethically, it's dicey as anything.
I think we're gonna see more and more of these
cases come to light where companies that are not, aren't
really strict with the use of their data, who has access,
(10:51):
how that's been monetized, what sort of disclosures are being
given to customers.
Some really big damage can be done to customer to
to brands, brand reputation and that bond of trust if
companies aren't really careful with that stuff.
Mm. Now, it might be a bit too early to
say if you've seen any businesses that have really harnessed
(11:11):
AI to drive significant business growth. I think there's a
lot of businesses out there that are probably putting a
toe in the water with AI. I think, uh, at Vocus,
where we're using Microsoft co-pilot for a limited number of
staff to,
Test out what they can do with it. We've got
our own AI powered internal chat assistant, which, you know,
(11:31):
helps us to search through our, our own internal wikis
and that sort of thing. But Michael, have you got
any particular success stories or case studies that come to
mind where you've seen an Australian business, uh, really effectively
harness AI?
Yeah, one of them that I was very impressed with
recently is, um, a WA based company called Heidi, and
(11:53):
Heidi spelled the name that that the person's name is spelled, um,
is actually a, a, an AI tool that works ambiently
in doctor's practises. So the patient has to give permission
for it to be running, but it basically listens in
on patient consults and then transcribes those notes, automatically populates
the doctor's records for that patient.
But this can also draught up or write letters to
(12:15):
specialists or referrals or scripts. And the great thing about
this is, I mean, in doing some work in the,
the medical space, particularly with GPs in the last few months,
they are flat out. They are so busy. And the
thing that's taking up so much of their time is,
you know, faffing about with paperwork. And so the administrative
burden is huge. And so seeing things like that it's
an Aussie company that's doing some really great stuff.
(12:38):
Solving a, a, a very meaningful problem for companies. And
you mentioned co-pilot, so co-pilot's been used by TA, the
insurer TA, in the last few months, in fact, a
few weeks ago they announced they on average, the people
using co-pilot are saving about 1 day a week, so
about 20% of man hour time being saved each week
by using that tool. I, I'm not sure exactly how
(12:58):
they arrived at that figure, but even if it's half right.
Or a little bit overcooked, that's really significant in terms
of the cost savings. And the other one that's interesting
is Coles. So Coles Myer have started using generative AI
to monitor um 40,000 comments or bits of feedback online
that customers are sharing on review sites or social media
about shopping in store with them cause you can't monitor that,
(13:21):
that amount of feedback every given on any given week.
Manually, or even some of the algorithms we've used in
the past, generative AI is really good at essentially keeping
a tab on what's being said and then summarising that
into actionable insights. So Coles are doing some really cool
stuff in that space. So I think that's that's a
really good example of when you're dealing with a large
data sets, how does generative AI allow you to do
things you just couldn't otherwise do? I guess a part
(13:43):
of it is not just having the tools available for
a business to use, but also,
Having a company culture that enables their use or even
encourages their use. So, Michael, how can a business ensure
that their organisational culture and structure adapt effectively to the
(14:04):
rapid changes that are being brought about by AI? Well,
I think from a structure perspective, what's important is you've got,
The key players around the table involved in the conversation.
And this is where I see often, you know, chief
risk officers, for instance, or people who are in compliance functions.
If they're not involved early on in the process of
developing AI tools for an organisation, they instantly and instinctively
(14:28):
become roadblocks. It's like, it won't work because, and then
they'll start the list.
But it's important that anyone in, in compliance or risk
functions that they are not handbrakes on innovation, but enablers
of smart innovation. Then we've got to have those voices
at the table that often, by nature, are gonna be
more measured, more concerned about the legal risks, the privacy risks,
the reputational risks, and involving them early on. Often we
(14:50):
see this stuff being driven by the CTE.
the CIO, maybe someone involved in sales and marketing and
growth functions of a business, they get all, you know,
frothy and excited about the potential for this stuff, technically,
and then try and get, um, regulatory compliance peeps on board.
And that, that really goes well. So I think from
the very outset, structure wise, making sure at an executive
(15:12):
suite level, you've got the people, you know, all of,
all of the people who are gonna have, have significant
stakes in this at the table and part of the conversation,
right from the outset.
Um, I think from a culture perspective, I think this
is important because I am seeing this play out right
now in a number of the clients I'm working with,
be they mortgage brokers, travel agents, um, people involved in
(15:33):
accounting or finance, where a lot of what makes those
businesses really hum is not the technical things they do,
but it's the relationships they build with clients, it's the
trust they build. And so starting with what actually represents
value to our customers, and if it is the high
touch stuff,
Tread carefully, don't just implement technology because it's gonna make
things more efficient if by making things more efficient, you're
(15:55):
removing that personal touch that is part of the secret sauce. Um,
and I, I think a good way to think about
innovation with AI and I wanna see any sort of
innovation is, you think about like, if you're renovating a house,
the first thing you're gonna want to ask is what
are the load bearing walls here?
Because if you take out a load bearing wall, the
whole thing is gonna come crashing down. So, I mean,
if it's not load bearing, you know, knock yourself out,
(16:16):
knock the wall out. I mean, it doesn't matter. You can,
you can readjust anything if it's not a load bearing wall.
Even if it's a load bearing wall, you can paint
it a different colour. You can punch a window under
that wall, but you better leave it there. And so
you think about for your value proposition or your company,
what are those load bearing walls, those key things that
are a part of your DNA, your ethos, what
Presents value to the customer what builds trust, I would
(16:37):
say tread very carefully in implementing technology that could erode
those things. So I think hopefully that metaphor of load-bearing
and non-load bearing walls is a good way of getting
really clear on what are the cultural pieces we don't
want to mess with or automate out of existence, because
I think doing so in the long term will do
significantly more damage than the efficiency gains in the short term.
(16:58):
You'd mentioned earlier the uh the case study of a
a a GP or a doctor using AI to take
transcriptions of meetings with patients, and I guess the, the
ethical considerations of using AI are something we need to take,
you know, really seriously.
So tell me about what ethical consideration should companies be
keeping in mind when they're deploying AI, particularly when it
(17:21):
comes to data privacy and security. Yeah, it's tricky because
at one point you want to be super upfront and
candid with people, um, with your customers, with the general population,
the reality being, most people don't understand this stuff enough
so even the mention of it.
Makes people freak out. So for instance, you've got, you know,
Bunnings and a number of key retailers in Australia, 18
(17:42):
months ago, there was a sign erected near the entrance
to the stores that facial recognition and biometric technology was
being used in store, and you know, essentially by walking
onto the premises you gave permission for companies to use that. Now,
from a legal standpoint, the company's like, oh we've ticked
the boxes, like from a privacy perspective, we've been upfront,
we've been transparent.
But I mean, all this talk was for someone walking
(18:03):
into the store to take a photo, and this thing
went viral instantly on Instagram, like, who, what the heck
are they doing? Why are they scanning our faces in Bunnings?
So you obviously want to try and be upfront and candid,
have full transparency, but part of that process needs to
be an education exercise, cause if you just let people
know that you're using technology, if people don't understand the
scope of that technology and why you're using it,
(18:25):
Yeah, it does much more harm than good. And so
I think privacy wise in terms of data security, being
on the front foot is not just about disclosure, but
also education. And you can see how wrong that can
go if, if, if you get it, if you get
it wrong. It's also about being very careful of, you know,
some of the risks of hastily implementing technology when you
haven't thought through the knock-on effects and the contingencies. So co-pilot,
(18:47):
for instance, is a great example. You know chatting with
some of the crew from Microsoft recently, they shared a
few case studies of,
Um, schools that have begun using, um, co-pilot, um, in
a school college setting, and they didn't have the permissions
set correctly, they just had implemented this and suddenly you
had students who had access to stuff that only the
principal should be able to see. And so I think
implementing these things you need to be really prudent and
(19:09):
sensible about the permissions cause otherwise,
It stuff can go wrong much more quickly at a
much greater scale, and because of this sort of technology.
Off the back of that, the next question fits with
that theme perfectly, which is, what advice would you have
for leaders who are hesitant about embracing AI and the
data-driven changes that it brings. Now, they might be hesitant.
(19:31):
Because of those, you know, those ethical considerations you've just mentioned,
they might be hesitant because they've heard horror stories of,
of like the kind that you've just mentioned then, but uh,
what advice would you have for those leaders who are
a bit reluctant about jumping into AI? Well, firstly, I
would say start with the companies you've already got trust in.
So for instance, I I still think one of the
(19:52):
most impressive players in this space right now is Microsoft.
I think Microsoft are the most trustworthy, the most reliable,
they've got the best,
Technology set up from a security standpoint, if you look
at co-pilot, client's data is not being used to train
that model, whereas if you're using OpenAI's technology with Chat GPT,
what you're putting into it is being used to train
(20:13):
the model. And that's the same with many of the
other models as well. So, I think starting with companies
you've already got a high level of trust with and
in is important. So I think Apple will be interesting
to watch because there is a large focus on privacy
and security from for Apple, and they've,
I mean what they're calling is not artificial intelligence, of
course they called it their own thing, so it's Apple intelligence,
so we'll see what that looks like in the coming
(20:33):
few months, but I think, starting with companies you trust
with and aligning yourself with them is smart because it's
a lot of small operators who,
Um, are, are doing really clever stuff, but we don't
really know. Most of us don't know, and I'm in
that same boat. Like, what's under the hood? Well, how
is this technology actually working? And if they haven't had
the money to invest in putting the, the proper checks
and balances in place, I'd be nervous about putting really
(20:56):
sensitive data into some of these models and allowing it
to have access to the back end of my business
and my system. So I think starting with trusted big
brands at this point is probably still sensible. So Microsoft
would be my go to.
Um, I'd also say for most indus for most businesses
you've got,
Industry associations you might be a part of, and there's
the wisdom of the crowd. I get a sense of
(21:18):
who in your industry, who of your colleagues are doing
what and what are they finding that's working. Um, cause there's,
everyone's trying different stuff right now, that's part of the
process of you, you embracing new technologies. Everyone's trying different
things at different rates. Let's leverage that shared experience and wisdom.
And so I would say industry associations are increasingly valuable
(21:38):
as that central point of truth around what's useful.
What's worth considering, what sort of pitfalls they can be
to look out for, because I think most industries, whether
you're dealing with say the financial services industry or franchising
or retail or pharmaceutical or medical,
The applications in all of these industries are quite different,
and so you want to get a sense of what's
working in your sector that is somewhat proven, um, because
(22:00):
others like you are using them. Now, Michael, you've been
involved in advising business leaders about their strategies since AI,
you know, before AI was even a thing, certainly to
the degree that it's become over the last 18 months
or so. So tell me, how has your own approach
to business strategy and foresight evolved?
(22:21):
With the advancements that we've seen in AI and data
analytics over the last 18 months or so. Yeah, so
if I look at how I'm using it on a
daily basis in my own, from my own perspective, I'm
using it for certainly some research functions. So when I'm
sort of sitting in your seat and doing the interviewing
in podcasts and the like, if I've got to write
the bio for an individual, I'll often use chat GPT
(22:44):
to write the bio, and I'll get it to tweak
it and change the tone and use specific prompts to
get it.
Short, chart, snappy. And I mean, that's something that previously,
for every intro I do for a guest might have
taken me 25 minutes. It now takes me 5 or
6 at max. So, I think things like that I'm
finding really useful. I'm not using it yet to do
any writing of book content or article content, but I
(23:07):
can see the benefit of that at some point. I'm
just trying to figure out ethically how I feel about,
Writing content that's got my name on it, even if
I didn't do the heavy lifting of writing it. So
I still haven't quite figured out where I land there.
I am using it for image generation. So, um, mid
journey would be one. I know that we've a number
of the, the technology design players, Adobe, for instance, have
(23:27):
suites for developing AI generated imagery. So I've done a
little bit of that for PowerPoint slides and for client
stuff that I'm doing.
Um, it's still a bit clunky though, if you look
at most of the AI image generation, um, tools, they're
really still not very good at things like legs, arms, fingers,
like they get all mangled and messy, so there are
limitations still in how good these tools are.
(23:48):
Um, but I think we'll see that get better and better.
So I'm using it for image generation, and the other
thing I'm using it for is for music. Um, so
a company called SoundDraw.io, I've started using for like, if
I'm doing a, an audiobook, for instance, I'll get it
to create soundtracks that are original pieces of music that
aren't bound by copyright, just because it doesn't have to
be amazingly brilliant as a masterpiece. It's just gonna be
(24:10):
an intro track for an audiobook or a podcast. And
so I find, I, I'm using it for those things.
So those are the main ways that I'm using it
so far.
It's interesting, isn't it, that a lot of the features
that I've seen colleagues using for, say, replying to emails
or writing a speech or even writing a, you know,
an internal communication, as someone who started my career as
(24:33):
a journalist, I can immediately,
Sniff from a mile away when it's been written by AI, uh,
and I'm sure you've had a similar experience. It's just
got all of these hallmarks of, you know, that wasn't
a human being that wrote this, or if it was
a human being, they need to go back and do
English all over again. That's right. I'm sure it'll get
better in coming years though.
Now, Michael, we've come up to a segment where all
(24:55):
of our guests get to put in one call, one request,
one wish to all leaders of enterprise and government organisations
to either avoid missing an incredible opportunity or to realise
a great opportunity. So Michael, if you had one wish
for all business leaders, what would it be and why?
(25:16):
I think the main thing I would say right now,
and it's with AI but for so many things in
a fast moving time, it is to adopt a, um,
a posture of radical or insatiable curiosity. How do you
adopt that posture of student rather than critic? And it's
so easy to see the new as a threat when you're,
when you've got expertise and experience behind you. Um, but
(25:36):
I think that sort of certainty is one of the
most dangerous postures we can be in. So, erring on
the side of curiosity rather than certainty.
Is probably the most essential mindset or posture for any
leader in the next few years. And it reminds me
of that, that great quote from one of the OG futurists,
Alvin Toffler, who said that the illiterate of the future
won't be those who can't read and write. It'll be
those who can't learn, unlearn and relearn. And I'm like,
(25:59):
that is so true for all of us right now.
There are things we know about our industries, about our roles,
about our organisations that were true.
2 years ago, 3 years ago, 5 years ago, even
6 months ago, but then maybe not as true now
as they once were. Are we willing to step back,
not allow our identities to become attached to the way
we do things and rethink them? Hold, hold our, our
(26:20):
best practises loosely and be willing to reconsider and relearn.
I think that's gonna be essential for all of us.
That is a great line.
Uh, Michael, we love to finish with a rapid fire
segment where I throw a series of really quick questions
at you, throw back at me the first thing that
pops into your mind. So, what is your favourite piece
of technology?
(26:42):
Oh, OK, this is gonna sound a bit strange, but
cos it's not all that sexy, but a QR code
is still one of my favourite things. I use QR
codes as a presenter constantly.
Cause if I'm referring to a piece of research, I
don't want to just say, a study says X, Y,
and Z. I want to give people the resource to
go back and read later, so I'll give them a
QR code on, in my slide deck that'll take them
(27:02):
straight to that to download. I've, I've found that in pre-COVID,
I never used QR codes. I used them constantly and
they're such a simple, portable, universal way to communicate content. So,
Like I would say, not super sexy, but QR codes, definitely. Brilliant,
it's the, the modern day footnote that people can actually
go on Linked to without having to go hunting for it.
(27:23):
Question two, how do you disconnect?
Uh, for me, planes. Plans are like a sacred space.
So when I get on a plane, particularly that bit
where you push back from the gate and you're not
at cruising altitude, yet, that's a good 25 to 30
minutes where I genuinely relish having my phone off, being
out of reach. Sometimes I listen to a podcast or
(27:44):
I'll journal or write or read. Sometimes I literally just
look out the window because it's giving my brain space
and time to just switch off from
The frenetic pace of, of stuff that I'm surrounded by.
So I find that, I love that. In fact, the
hardest thing about the COVID years when travel all stopped
for a couple of years was not having that. I
got so used to that being the rhythm because I'm
travelling all the time. That, that window, I absolutely love.
(28:06):
You and I are kindred spirits. I can't think of
anywhere else I would rather be on Earth than alone
on a plane, on a long haul flight where I
can read my Kindle or listen to a podcast. I'm
absolutely with you on that.
Uh, question number 3, what's the most important thing you
do for your wellbeing?
Uh, I think, well, from a mental and emotional perspective,
(28:26):
it'd be journaling. And I do, I, I journal most days,
and I've done that for years. I find that a
really useful exercise. Um, physically, the gym. So I, I,
I do CrossFit a couple of times a week, which
is high octane, high energy, but just the best way
to balance out all the hormones that can get out
of whack in a stressful existence. So I find that
really helpful.
What's one thing that would surprise people about you?
(28:50):
I'm actually very, very low tech. Um, I only use
technology if it's valuable. I'm not particularly interested in the
bells and the whistles. In fact, I only got a
smartwatch about 4 months ago because I,
I did a segment on, um, the Morning show about
one of these smartwatches that had just been released to
the company that I sent through a sample one said, Oh,
you can keep it. So I'm like, Oh, OK. So
I've been using this smartwatch. But up until then, I
(29:12):
had like an old school watch, cause I just liked
the classic timepiece thing. So, I'm a quite a low
tech person, and also a low tech parent. And I
think actually, interestingly, a lot of technology people are low
tech parents, so that would be,
I guess maybe a bit of a surprise cause I'm
in that space of technology all the time, but in
terms of daily life, I actually really like the analogue.
(29:32):
What's the one personal trait most important to success?
Oh, goodness. It's hard, isn't it, to, you know, boil
it down to what I would say probably humility. Because
I just think humility is such an essential ingredient to innovation,
to curiosity as we talked about before. It's what prompts
you to ask questions, to be willing to listen and learn.
The moment you, you know, it's that old saying, the
(29:54):
moment you think you've made it, you've passed it. And so, like,
you know, maintaining humility, particularly once you've achieved success or
got expertise under your belt, is probably, I think, the
most important thing.
Final question, what's one thing that there needs to be
more of in business today?
It's funny, I was listening to a podcast yesterday and, um,
the person I was listening to on this podcast drew
(30:16):
the distinction between being clever and being wise. And I
stopped that. I, I paused for a moment and I thought,
what an interesting dichotomy. And I feel like that's probably
what we need more of is more wisdom and less intelligence,
or less cleverness. You know, we're still in an age
that really rewards the clever and the intelligent, the smart,
but I think wisdom is actually being craved more than
(30:36):
ever before. And I think from an AI perspective, one
of my concerns is that,
Our power is racing ahead of our wisdom, these tools
are getting far, far better and smarter than we have
the ethical frameworks and the wisdom that that that ballasts
humans and as human race to, to deal with it well.
So I think probably wisdom would be the thing I
think we need more than ever.
(30:57):
What a very poignant and philosophical thing to finish on.
I love it. Michael McQueen, it has been an absolute
pleasure talking to you. Thanks so much for joining us
on the Vocus Inspire podcast. It's my pleasure, cheers. Thanks
so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this episode
of Vocus Inspire, and we look forward to bringing you
more inspiration in coming episodes.
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