December 20, 2022 • 21 mins
Why and how has the space and satellite industry suddenly become so relevant to every industry and person on the planet? In this episode, we talk about one of our favourites topics to Phil Ridley, CEO Quasar Satellite Technologies. We discuss the opportunities and challenges for business and government, the role Australian organisations can expect to play in the new space race, and much more.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Vocus Inspire, the podcast full of brilliant ideas
for business.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, I'm Luke Coleman, head of government and corporate affairs
at Vocus, Australia's leading specialist fibre and network solutions provider.
Before we get things underway, we want to acknowledge and
pay our respects to the traditional custodians of the land
from wherever you're listening. In this podcast, we dive headfirst
into what's on the minds of Australian business and government
(00:30):
leaders to help inspire you and your organisation to go forward,
go further, and go faster. So let's go.
In this episode we're talking about a favourite topic of ours,
space and satellites. We'll look at why and how the
space and satellite industry has suddenly become so relevant to
(00:53):
every industry and every person on the planet. What are
the opportunities and the challenges for business and government, and
what role can Australian organisations expect to play in the
new space race. Joining us today is Phil Ridley, CEO
of Quasar Satellite Technologies. Now Phil is a
Veteran of the technology industry, he's got experience across telecommunications, aerospace,
(01:17):
and even in the Royal Australian Air Force. He's been
a key executive of Big Pond, Unwired Australia and Mojo Power,
and he currently leads Quasar, an Australian company that's providing
world-leading ground station services to satellite operators. Welcome to the podcast, Phil. Thanks, Luke,
it's fantastic to be here. Really glad you could join
us today. Now Phil, satellite technology has obviously been around
(01:40):
for a while, but,
In recent years, the focus has shifted to a new
and disruptive technology, LEO satellites. Why don't you tell us
a bit about LEOs, which is the world that you
live and work in today? It, it's getting really, really interesting.
In the last few, uh, years, things have changed a lot.
So with the launch of satellites, the cost of launching
Leo satellites, which are the ones closest to the Earth, is,
(02:03):
is really dropped. You know, you can, you can launch
a satellite for thousands of dollars per kilogramme now, which
is just unheard of in the past.
So what that means is there's, there's many of them,
and that they're growing, and there's a lot of new
satellite operators and manufacturers out there. And because of that,
there's a whole lot of new business cases that are
really coming out in space. Some of these satellites are
quite small, but they're very powerful. They've got powerful sensors,
(02:25):
powerful compute on them.
And as a result, they're enabling a whole lot of
new use cases that weren't there before. So, you know,
with Earth observation, um, and things like that, but things
have moved on to things like internet access and IoT,
the Internet of Things. And so these new satellites are
really enabling a lot of that. So, yeah, Edge computers
moved to the cloud. Edge Compute and the cloud have
(02:46):
both moved to space. And so now what we're seeing
in space is really a mirror of what we see
on Earth. It's got the same capabilities.
You know, people are using space for internet access, and
it's actually faster than uh Earth-based internet. So it really
makes a a a big change, and for us, we
need to really cover all of that and make sure
that we deliver the right services for them. Now, we
have spoken about LEO's on this podcast in previous episodes,
(03:07):
but why don't you give us just a brief rundown
on what's the kind of technological difference between a Leo
and a traditional satellite? What kind of the speeds are
are we seeing that are different, what are the latencies
that are different, what makes this such a revolutionary technology?
Mm. Certainly, it's, it's different from traditional satellites where they're
at geo or geosynchronous or geostationary orbit, which is those
(03:28):
fixed dishes that you see on roofs of houses for
broadcast television and internet. Um, there are different heights, so
they range from about 300 kilometres to a couple of
1000 kilometres high. And what that means is they, there's
a couple of things. So they're close, so latency can be,
you know, tens of milliseconds, but they move. So geosynchronous
and geostationary headlights don't, but Leo's headlights do move and
(03:50):
they move very fast.
So most, you know, most LEO satellites probably circle the
Earth 15 to 20 times a day, and because of
that they move across the sky quickly, so when you,
if you can see them, they literally move from, you know, um,
East to west in several minutes. And so they move quickly,
so you've got to talk to them quickly, but they
really are a, a different, you know, a different fish.
They're quite small too, so they're not, you know, the
(04:12):
size of a car. These things can be the size
literally of the Rubik's Cube. Amazing. Now, as CEO of
Quasar Satellite Technologies, why don't you give us a bit
of a download on the unique technology that you've developed
and what is it that makes it groundbreaking? Right.
Uh, so we're focusing on one of the biggest problems
in space at the moment, and that is that it's
easy to launch satellites, and we're seeing, you know, anywhere
(04:34):
from 6000 satellites to 60,000 satellites by the end of
the decade. Um, the problem is that they all have
to call home. And so the more satellites up there,
the more dishes you really need on the ground to
talk to them, and that's just not sustainable. There's just
not enough satellite dishes on the ground, ground stations, as
we call them, to talk to them, and they can't scale. So,
What we've developed is a new kind of antenna, a
(04:55):
phased array, and it, um, can talk to around 100
satellites simultaneously on the same antenna. That has big implications
for cost. It has big implications for bandwidth, and it
has big implications for missed passes. So, traditional satellite dishes
talk to one satellite at a time, and they have
to move, physically move to point at them. Ours doesn't move,
it's got electronic beams.
(05:17):
And so what it means essentially is that we, we
have 100 times the capacity of an antenna on a
single antenna, and our antenna is actually smaller than one
of those, so it really makes a big difference. It
really changes the floor of the cost of communications for satellites. Uh,
it was developed by CSIRO, Radio Astronomy, and we've taken
generation 5 of that technology and we're using it for
satellite communications.
(05:38):
If I was going to go out and see one
of these things on the ground, I've been to a
traditional satellite ground station previously, you see these ginormous dishes
that are maybe 1015 metres more wide, you know, they're
mechanically operated, they're huge, they turn very slowly. Uh, describe
to me, if I was to go out and see
one of your phased array antennas on the ground, what's
(05:58):
it gonna look like?
Pretty small. Um, there's two parts to it. So there's
a container that has the computing facilities in it, which
is pretty common. You'll see a cabin, um, with a
whole lot of equipment in it. But our antenna is, uh,
about the size of a large picnic table. It's not
very large at all. So, it's like a, a children's
swimming pool. It's quite small, it's flat, doesn't move, uh,
(06:18):
and it's quite nondescript looking, but beneath the covers is
a
A lot of, uh, advanced electronics that make that work.
But it's really quite small. Now, you mentioned earlier, there's
around 6000 satellites orbiting the world today, and by the
end of the decade, that number is expected to increase
to about 60,000, a 10-fold increase in the number of satellites.
What are some of the challenges that the satellite industry
(06:40):
is going to face when it's managing such rapid growth?
Mm, um, the people that we talk to tell us
that there'll be pressure on all of the supply chain. Um,
so there's, there's gonna be challenges with actually designing and
building these satellites, and that supply chain issues getting components
for them. You know, of course, there's also launch bottlenecks.
You've got to be able to get these things into space,
(07:00):
operate your satellites, and then decommission them. Um, so we see,
For the first part of it where you get your
satellite into space, there'll be challenges for supply chain and
shortage of key skills globally. And that's, that's a lot.
That's a big thing. Um, it, it's hard to, to
build satellites, and it's hard to get them into space,
and there's not many people that do it. Um, but
once it's up there, that's the real problem. So, you know,
(07:21):
space is getting congested and contested up there. I wouldn't
say it's the wild west, but, you know, it's certainly,
it's not, not the environment that you think it is. Now,
there's space weather, there's radio interference, there's space junk.
There's a risk of collisions, you know, a lot of
satellites get a dozen collision alerts a day, and they
have to decide whether they want to manoeuvre to, to
avoid that. There's over 100 million pieces of track space
(07:42):
junk up there. So one of the biggest challenges is
really keeping things safe. So that's, you know, keeping satellites
away from each other, keeping away from space junk, managing
the radio interferences, there's more and more satellites all talking.
Space weather and of course um activity that might not
be friendly, so there's a lot going on up there,
but the more and more satellites up there, the more congested, more,
(08:03):
you know, the more possibilities that these things occurring will,
will happen.
Now, competition is also heating up in the Leo satellite market.
You've got Starlink, which has recently launched commercial services, you've
got other players like TeleSat, OneWeb, Amazon's Project, Kuiper. Uh,
what area is it in this competitive market that Quasars
(08:24):
really focused on?
Mm, so we, we are really focused on, again, the
communications part of that. So there's a lot of the
space industry is quite complex, there's a lot of it's
vertically integrated, you know, some operators have their own infrastructure,
but most of it's shared, so most satellite operators share
the antennas on the ground, um.
So, the biggest challenge is still getting data back as
(08:47):
satellites get more and more capable. And as, for example,
you know, a high definition image on a satellite might
be 50 gigabytes in size, and getting that off a
satellite in a couple of minutes is no mean feat.
So we focused on that, and we're doing that by, again,
using a different kind of technology.
The other thing that happens is, a lot of satellites actually, um,
in constellations, fly in clumps. Yeah, they don't sort of
(09:08):
fly randomly. They actually fly as a group quite often,
so they can cover a part of the ground. And so,
a lot of satellites need to talk to a dish
at the same time. So, what we're doing that's different
to the other guys is that we're building something that
makes it easier for all satellites to communicate at the
same time. So the capacity issue is what we're really
focusing rather than, you know, coverage and, and the number
of satellites in space.
(09:29):
Now I'm a, I'm a bit of a layman on
this technologically, but I, you know, I understand with a
say a mobile base station, for example, you might have
one piece of technology on the base station that could
potentially provide coverage from 3 carriers. Is it comparable to
what you're doing here with a phased array antenna that
you can have 3 different satellite operators all going down
(09:52):
to the same dish on the ground, so you don't
have to build 3 different ground stations? Is that a
fair analogy or am I off the mark there?
Uh, no, you're spot on actually. That, that's right, Luke. So,
what we have to do, and that's the challenge, of course,
is to build an antenna that can literally talk to
every satellite in space, you know, on all different orbits
from LEO to GO to MO orbits, which is where the, uh,
(10:12):
position navigation satellites are. So we have to build a
generic software defined ground station that can pretty much redefine
itself instantly to talk to any satellite going past. But that's, yeah,
that's what we do.
And with traditional geo satellites, I understand that often those
ground stations will be in a radio quiet zone, so
they don't have interference from mobile signals and other, uh,
(10:33):
you know, radio frequencies. Is that the same with the
technology you're developing? Does it need to be in a
specific quiet zone, or can they be more distributed around
the country?
Uh, it's a good question. It, it depends on the
orbit a little bit. Um, so in Australia, there's, uh,
the deep space network and other things where we can't
be near, and there's just say there's mobile phone interference,
(10:54):
but generally, we can go to places where other dishes can't. Uh,
one physically, so we can physically install a system in
a smaller area that would not normally be available for
a large dish. Um, but our system, because of the
digital processing, we can actually eliminate a lot of the
interference that normally would be an issue. So we probably have,
You know, 20 to 30% more capability of launching and,
and deploying our stations across Australia. But you were right. Uh,
(11:18):
in Australia in particular, we're famous for it. We have
a rodeo zone in Western Australia, but around the world,
there are designated space parks, I suppose you would call that,
where they, they intend to put on their antennas. Um,
but of course, coverage is important as well. So we're
looking at greenfields locations in, um, most antennas for ground
stations for geo satellites is usually out in, in the
(11:39):
country anyway, for a few reasons.
Now, coming back home to Australia, a lot of these
LEO networks are being launched by operators that are based
in the United States, but we've got Space Race going
on between China, India, plenty of other countries are getting
into the space race. So amidst all of the global
competition in the industry, is it realistic that Australia can
(12:01):
make a difference and how important is it to have
our own homegrown space industry?
Um, that's a, that's an often asked question actually, Luke. I,
I think my personal view of this is, um, yes,
we can, and we can for a couple of reasons. Australia, physically,
its location is fantastic. So where we are on the
globe is actually very poorly served for ground stations around
(12:22):
the world. And there's a lot of satellites that need
to offload the data quickly. And so if you've got
different locations, they can do it. And so that's important
for latency reasons and, uh, freshness of data, where sometimes
the data's got to be, you know, half an hour old. Um,
The other thing is that Australia is a technology nation.
We love tech here. Of the world's mobile phones are
tested in Australia first. Um, and so space is interesting
(12:45):
because even though it's an economic industry, it's not necessarily
all driven by volume and economies of scale. So space
is driven a lot by innovation too. So you can
have something innovative, you don't need to be large. And
Australia is generally punched above its weight when it comes
to that. You know, an example being Wi Fi, right? So,
Wi Fi was invented in Australia.
And the radio astronomy world, and of course it went
(13:05):
around the world. Um, so the way we see it
is Australia is well placed as far as our stability
of our government, where we are in the world. We're
a technology nation and we can do it with innovation.
So my answer to that is yes, it's really, really important.
On the sovereign peace or on Australia having its own capabilities,
I think that'll become more and more important as the
(13:25):
world becomes a bit more unstable. And, um, you know,
Australia is connected to the world from undersea cables, you know,
from 5 or 6 cities in Australia, and that's the
only connectivity we really have. So, having an alternative to that,
you know, if there's earthquakes, you know, we've seen countries
go offline. So I think at the end of the day,
it'll become more and more important for Australia, and so,
For all of these reasons, I think the answer is
(13:46):
yes to all three questions. Hm. Now, Phil, I'm gonna
go a little bit off script here, but I've, uh,
I've got so many questions for you. It's such a
fascinating topic that when you and I first met, you
were working for Unwired a number of years ago, and
at the time what Unwired was doing was quite revolutionary,
having a, a home broadband technology, um,
Which was, you know, effectively the, the very early version
(14:09):
of what we would now have as a 5G home
broadband service using Unwired. That later became Vivid Wireless. I'm curious,
did the work that you did at Unwired and Vivid
Wireless using terrestrial wireless technologies, how applicable has some of
that work been to what you're doing now at Quasar? I,
I think there's a fair bit of overlap. I'd probably
(14:30):
say about 50%.
It's on the ground with terrestrial networks, you've gotta have locations,
you've got customers, you've got frequencies that you have to
coordinate with the other guys. Those things are still the
same in space, you know, you still have things where
there is literally radio spectrum and you're talking in space,
and you've got to be careful that you don't interfere
with other satellites in space and also with the ground.
There's infrastructure needs, so it's a very capital intensive business,
(14:52):
the telco business, and so is space when you look
at some of the cost of the ground stations.
But a lot of it's different too. So there are
things in space, there are problems in space that simply
don't come up on Earth, you know, so we, we
don't have collision alerts with, uh, rail stations, you know,
you know, it's a lot more easy to predict where
things are. You know, satellites often aren't where they should be.
You know, we predict where a satellite is, and we
(15:13):
find out that it's not actually where it is, and
there's quite a lot of technologies around the world. So
I suppose, you know, there's a reasonable overlap, but space
just adds that layer of complexity on top of all
of that.
Uh, you know, the telco, the ranges are different, you know,
the beams have to be different, narrow, and yeah, so
I guess there's some overlap. It's a good background, but
space is hard, you know, it, it, it's hard.
(15:36):
Now, let's shift gears a little bit and talk away
from space and and more about leadership and your role
as a leader in, in your organisation.
I want to give you the opportunity to put out
one call or request or a wish to all leaders
of enterprise and government organisations in order to realise or
to avoid missing out on an incredible future opportunity or
(15:59):
to prevent making a big mistake. If you had one wish,
one request for all business and government leaders, what would
it be and why?
Mm. Well, I would say we really seriously need to
support the Australian homegrown space industry. And it's not because
I'm in the industry, it's because if you look at financially, economically,
you know, defense-wise, there's a million reasons why we should
(16:21):
really invest more in space in Australia. We can do it,
we should.
Do it. It'll make a big difference to our economy,
but also we can export a lot of this. So,
I would say to all the industries out there, if
you want to invest in Australia, invest in space. Can
we do it? Again, Wi Fi, a classic example, was never,
never intended to get out in the wild and cover
the whole world. It was invented, you know, by, in fact,
(16:41):
our chairman is one of the inventors of Wi Fi, but,
We are very, very capable of doing this, but we
need the investment, we need the support, and we need
the logistics between government and industry to make this work.
And if we don't focus, we're gonna fall behind because
everyone else is doing it.
Is there a particular niche that you would say Australia
should seek to specialise in? I mean, it's such a
huge industry. You've got launch capabilities, you've got ground station capabilities,
(17:05):
you've got the manufacturer of the physical satellites or the launches.
There's so many areas across this um, this space. Uh, if,
if Australia was going to specialise, should it seek to
go for a particular niche or it should should it
try to develop the industry across the board?
Yeah, good question. Uh, I think a lot of it
is generic across the world. Like we're developing around rockets, uh,
(17:26):
of course, in Queensland, you know, Gilmore's supposed to doing
a fantastic job there. We're launching. So there are a
lot of things that are generic around the world, but
what Australia's really famous for, and it's because of the
quality of our universities and because we're a technology nation,
we are really, really good at the digital side. We're
good at the software side, and we're good at, um,
AO and ML. So the sorts of things that are
innovative that are different.
(17:47):
Uh, what we're very good at. So for example, in Australia,
we've got some amazing systems developed here, the Square kilometre Array,
you know, we've got the Over the Horizon radar. There's
some amazing technologies here invented in Australia that we've done.
We need to continue that, and these are things that
are unique that will change the, you know, really change
the landscape. For us, our phased ray technology, we believe
is a world first when we turn it on. And again,
(18:08):
it developed here in Australia. So we can do it.
I wouldn't focus so much on areas where there's volume
and there's competition, but really innovation.
And we are very, very good at that, and we
always have been. Australia's famous for its software capability. Look
at Atlassian, look at all of the things we've developed
here in Australia. So that's where I think we would focus. Now,
final segment, rapid fire Q&A. I'm gonna throw a series
(18:30):
of quick questions at you. Give me the first thing
that pops into your mind, you ready? Alright, alright, let's go.
Number one, what's your favourite piece of technology?
My mobile phone, but it's also my least favourite piece
of technology at the same time. What kind of phone
have you got? Oh, I actually, I've gone to the
dark side. I've had Apple and Android, but at the
moment I'm an Android user. I tend to flip. You're,
(18:50):
you're a technical guy. I knew you'd be an Android user.
I could just pick it. Tech people always are. How
do you disconnect?
Uh, actually, I don't watch TV, but I listen to
a lot of music, all sorts of music. So, um,
if I need to chill out, I'll put it on
my headphones and listen to music. Most of my music
was written by people who'd been dead for a long time, unfortunately, but, um,
that's my way of chilling out. Go on. Who's your
(19:11):
favourite band then? Uh, well, say band. I'm, I'm a classical,
classical music person, so I'm, I'm into Bach and I'm
into Robert Johnson, and, you know, it, it, I'm into
all sorts of music, but I always go back to
my favourites, I'll admit. Nice. What's the most important thing
that you do for your wellbeing?
I, I take time out with the family, so it's really,
really important. I love the beach, you know, I love
(19:31):
the bush, so I like to get outside and walk
away from computers for a while and just, you know,
reconnect with nature. It's so important for a million reasons.
What's one thing that would surprise people about you?
Uh, I'm right-handed when I write, but I'm left-handed with
everything else, and I don't know why. I always have been.
That is weird, some serious left right brain action going on. Yeah,
(19:52):
I do everything left-handed except right. I don't know why.
What's the one personal trait most important to success?
I think, I think it's tenacity, probably tenacity and adaptability together.
You know, there's always problems to solve, it's how you,
how you approach them that makes the difference, I think.
What's the one thing that there needs to be more
(20:13):
of in business today?
I want to say diversity. Uh, I think the more
interesting and varied the people that you have in your organisation,
the more interesting and varied the ideas that come out are,
you know, so I think diversity is super, super important.
The last thing I'll ever want to work is, and
as an organisation with groupthink. So, yep, diversity for me,
and diversity in all its forms. Super important. That is
(20:36):
a great note to finish on. Thank you so much,
CEO of Quasar Satellite Technologies, Phil Ridley. Thanks so much
for joining us on the podcast. Thanks, Luke. It was
a pleasure to be here.
Thanks so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this
episode of Focus Inspire, and we look forward to bringing
you more inspiration in coming episodes. If you've enjoyed this conversation,
(20:57):
we've got so much more to share with you. We've
just released a detailed report called Connectivity for.
0, the new business imperative, featuring trends and insights from
industry leaders and experts and importantly, practical steps to help
you lead your organisation through change. Head to our website
at Focus.com.au to download the full report.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And don't forget, if you want more inspiration and more episodes,
head to Vocus.com.au/podcast. You can follow us on LinkedIn and
Twitter to stay up to date with all things Vocus.
Listen out for the next episode of the Vocus Inspire podcast.
Welcome to Vocus Inspire, the podcast full of brilliant ideas
for business.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, I'm Luke Coleman, head of government and corporate affairs
at Vocus, Australia's leading specialist fibre and network solutions provider.
Before we get things underway, we want to acknowledge and
pay our respects to the traditional custodians of the land
from wherever you're listening. In this podcast, we dive headfirst
into what's on the minds of Australian business and government
(00:30):
leaders to help inspire you and your organisation to go forward,
go further, and go faster. So let's go.
In this episode we're talking about a favourite topic of ours,
space and satellites. We'll look at why and how the
space and satellite industry has suddenly become so relevant to
(00:53):
every industry and every person on the planet. What are
the opportunities and the challenges for business and government, and
what role can Australian organisations expect to play in the
new space race. Joining us today is Phil Ridley, CEO
of Quasar Satellite Technologies. Now Phil is a
Veteran of the technology industry, he's got experience across telecommunications, aerospace,
(01:17):
and even in the Royal Australian Air Force. He's been
a key executive of Big Pond, Unwired Australia and Mojo Power,
and he currently leads Quasar, an Australian company that's providing
world-leading ground station services to satellite operators. Welcome to the podcast, Phil. Thanks, Luke,
it's fantastic to be here. Really glad you could join
us today. Now Phil, satellite technology has obviously been around
(01:40):
for a while, but,
In recent years, the focus has shifted to a new
and disruptive technology, LEO satellites. Why don't you tell us
a bit about LEOs, which is the world that you
live and work in today? It, it's getting really, really interesting.
In the last few, uh, years, things have changed a lot.
So with the launch of satellites, the cost of launching
Leo satellites, which are the ones closest to the Earth, is,
(02:03):
is really dropped. You know, you can, you can launch
a satellite for thousands of dollars per kilogramme now, which
is just unheard of in the past.
So what that means is there's, there's many of them,
and that they're growing, and there's a lot of new
satellite operators and manufacturers out there. And because of that,
there's a whole lot of new business cases that are
really coming out in space. Some of these satellites are
quite small, but they're very powerful. They've got powerful sensors,
(02:25):
powerful compute on them.
And as a result, they're enabling a whole lot of
new use cases that weren't there before. So, you know,
with Earth observation, um, and things like that, but things
have moved on to things like internet access and IoT,
the Internet of Things. And so these new satellites are
really enabling a lot of that. So, yeah, Edge computers
moved to the cloud. Edge Compute and the cloud have
(02:46):
both moved to space. And so now what we're seeing
in space is really a mirror of what we see
on Earth. It's got the same capabilities.
You know, people are using space for internet access, and
it's actually faster than uh Earth-based internet. So it really
makes a a a big change, and for us, we
need to really cover all of that and make sure
that we deliver the right services for them. Now, we
have spoken about LEO's on this podcast in previous episodes,
(03:07):
but why don't you give us just a brief rundown
on what's the kind of technological difference between a Leo
and a traditional satellite? What kind of the speeds are
are we seeing that are different, what are the latencies
that are different, what makes this such a revolutionary technology?
Mm. Certainly, it's, it's different from traditional satellites where they're
at geo or geosynchronous or geostationary orbit, which is those
(03:28):
fixed dishes that you see on roofs of houses for
broadcast television and internet. Um, there are different heights, so
they range from about 300 kilometres to a couple of
1000 kilometres high. And what that means is they, there's
a couple of things. So they're close, so latency can be,
you know, tens of milliseconds, but they move. So geosynchronous
and geostationary headlights don't, but Leo's headlights do move and
(03:50):
they move very fast.
So most, you know, most LEO satellites probably circle the
Earth 15 to 20 times a day, and because of
that they move across the sky quickly, so when you,
if you can see them, they literally move from, you know, um,
East to west in several minutes. And so they move quickly,
so you've got to talk to them quickly, but they
really are a, a different, you know, a different fish.
They're quite small too, so they're not, you know, the
(04:12):
size of a car. These things can be the size
literally of the Rubik's Cube. Amazing. Now, as CEO of
Quasar Satellite Technologies, why don't you give us a bit
of a download on the unique technology that you've developed
and what is it that makes it groundbreaking? Right.
Uh, so we're focusing on one of the biggest problems
in space at the moment, and that is that it's
easy to launch satellites, and we're seeing, you know, anywhere
(04:34):
from 6000 satellites to 60,000 satellites by the end of
the decade. Um, the problem is that they all have
to call home. And so the more satellites up there,
the more dishes you really need on the ground to
talk to them, and that's just not sustainable. There's just
not enough satellite dishes on the ground, ground stations, as
we call them, to talk to them, and they can't scale. So,
What we've developed is a new kind of antenna, a
(04:55):
phased array, and it, um, can talk to around 100
satellites simultaneously on the same antenna. That has big implications
for cost. It has big implications for bandwidth, and it
has big implications for missed passes. So, traditional satellite dishes
talk to one satellite at a time, and they have
to move, physically move to point at them. Ours doesn't move,
it's got electronic beams.
(05:17):
And so what it means essentially is that we, we
have 100 times the capacity of an antenna on a
single antenna, and our antenna is actually smaller than one
of those, so it really makes a big difference. It
really changes the floor of the cost of communications for satellites. Uh,
it was developed by CSIRO, Radio Astronomy, and we've taken
generation 5 of that technology and we're using it for
satellite communications.
(05:38):
If I was going to go out and see one
of these things on the ground, I've been to a
traditional satellite ground station previously, you see these ginormous dishes
that are maybe 1015 metres more wide, you know, they're
mechanically operated, they're huge, they turn very slowly. Uh, describe
to me, if I was to go out and see
one of your phased array antennas on the ground, what's
(05:58):
it gonna look like?
Pretty small. Um, there's two parts to it. So there's
a container that has the computing facilities in it, which
is pretty common. You'll see a cabin, um, with a
whole lot of equipment in it. But our antenna is, uh,
about the size of a large picnic table. It's not
very large at all. So, it's like a, a children's
swimming pool. It's quite small, it's flat, doesn't move, uh,
(06:18):
and it's quite nondescript looking, but beneath the covers is
a
A lot of, uh, advanced electronics that make that work.
But it's really quite small. Now, you mentioned earlier, there's
around 6000 satellites orbiting the world today, and by the
end of the decade, that number is expected to increase
to about 60,000, a 10-fold increase in the number of satellites.
What are some of the challenges that the satellite industry
(06:40):
is going to face when it's managing such rapid growth?
Mm, um, the people that we talk to tell us
that there'll be pressure on all of the supply chain. Um,
so there's, there's gonna be challenges with actually designing and
building these satellites, and that supply chain issues getting components
for them. You know, of course, there's also launch bottlenecks.
You've got to be able to get these things into space,
(07:00):
operate your satellites, and then decommission them. Um, so we see,
For the first part of it where you get your
satellite into space, there'll be challenges for supply chain and
shortage of key skills globally. And that's, that's a lot.
That's a big thing. Um, it, it's hard to, to
build satellites, and it's hard to get them into space,
and there's not many people that do it. Um, but
once it's up there, that's the real problem. So, you know,
(07:21):
space is getting congested and contested up there. I wouldn't
say it's the wild west, but, you know, it's certainly,
it's not, not the environment that you think it is. Now,
there's space weather, there's radio interference, there's space junk.
There's a risk of collisions, you know, a lot of
satellites get a dozen collision alerts a day, and they
have to decide whether they want to manoeuvre to, to
avoid that. There's over 100 million pieces of track space
(07:42):
junk up there. So one of the biggest challenges is
really keeping things safe. So that's, you know, keeping satellites
away from each other, keeping away from space junk, managing
the radio interferences, there's more and more satellites all talking.
Space weather and of course um activity that might not
be friendly, so there's a lot going on up there,
but the more and more satellites up there, the more congested, more,
(08:03):
you know, the more possibilities that these things occurring will,
will happen.
Now, competition is also heating up in the Leo satellite market.
You've got Starlink, which has recently launched commercial services, you've
got other players like TeleSat, OneWeb, Amazon's Project, Kuiper. Uh,
what area is it in this competitive market that Quasars
(08:24):
really focused on?
Mm, so we, we are really focused on, again, the
communications part of that. So there's a lot of the
space industry is quite complex, there's a lot of it's
vertically integrated, you know, some operators have their own infrastructure,
but most of it's shared, so most satellite operators share
the antennas on the ground, um.
So, the biggest challenge is still getting data back as
(08:47):
satellites get more and more capable. And as, for example,
you know, a high definition image on a satellite might
be 50 gigabytes in size, and getting that off a
satellite in a couple of minutes is no mean feat.
So we focused on that, and we're doing that by, again,
using a different kind of technology.
The other thing that happens is, a lot of satellites actually, um,
in constellations, fly in clumps. Yeah, they don't sort of
(09:08):
fly randomly. They actually fly as a group quite often,
so they can cover a part of the ground. And so,
a lot of satellites need to talk to a dish
at the same time. So, what we're doing that's different
to the other guys is that we're building something that
makes it easier for all satellites to communicate at the
same time. So the capacity issue is what we're really
focusing rather than, you know, coverage and, and the number
of satellites in space.
(09:29):
Now I'm a, I'm a bit of a layman on
this technologically, but I, you know, I understand with a
say a mobile base station, for example, you might have
one piece of technology on the base station that could
potentially provide coverage from 3 carriers. Is it comparable to
what you're doing here with a phased array antenna that
you can have 3 different satellite operators all going down
(09:52):
to the same dish on the ground, so you don't
have to build 3 different ground stations? Is that a
fair analogy or am I off the mark there?
Uh, no, you're spot on actually. That, that's right, Luke. So,
what we have to do, and that's the challenge, of course,
is to build an antenna that can literally talk to
every satellite in space, you know, on all different orbits
from LEO to GO to MO orbits, which is where the, uh,
(10:12):
position navigation satellites are. So we have to build a
generic software defined ground station that can pretty much redefine
itself instantly to talk to any satellite going past. But that's, yeah,
that's what we do.
And with traditional geo satellites, I understand that often those
ground stations will be in a radio quiet zone, so
they don't have interference from mobile signals and other, uh,
(10:33):
you know, radio frequencies. Is that the same with the
technology you're developing? Does it need to be in a
specific quiet zone, or can they be more distributed around
the country?
Uh, it's a good question. It, it depends on the
orbit a little bit. Um, so in Australia, there's, uh,
the deep space network and other things where we can't
be near, and there's just say there's mobile phone interference,
(10:54):
but generally, we can go to places where other dishes can't. Uh,
one physically, so we can physically install a system in
a smaller area that would not normally be available for
a large dish. Um, but our system, because of the
digital processing, we can actually eliminate a lot of the
interference that normally would be an issue. So we probably have,
You know, 20 to 30% more capability of launching and,
and deploying our stations across Australia. But you were right. Uh,
(11:18):
in Australia in particular, we're famous for it. We have
a rodeo zone in Western Australia, but around the world,
there are designated space parks, I suppose you would call that,
where they, they intend to put on their antennas. Um,
but of course, coverage is important as well. So we're
looking at greenfields locations in, um, most antennas for ground
stations for geo satellites is usually out in, in the
(11:39):
country anyway, for a few reasons.
Now, coming back home to Australia, a lot of these
LEO networks are being launched by operators that are based
in the United States, but we've got Space Race going
on between China, India, plenty of other countries are getting
into the space race. So amidst all of the global
competition in the industry, is it realistic that Australia can
(12:01):
make a difference and how important is it to have
our own homegrown space industry?
Um, that's a, that's an often asked question actually, Luke. I,
I think my personal view of this is, um, yes,
we can, and we can for a couple of reasons. Australia, physically,
its location is fantastic. So where we are on the
globe is actually very poorly served for ground stations around
(12:22):
the world. And there's a lot of satellites that need
to offload the data quickly. And so if you've got
different locations, they can do it. And so that's important
for latency reasons and, uh, freshness of data, where sometimes
the data's got to be, you know, half an hour old. Um,
The other thing is that Australia is a technology nation.
We love tech here. Of the world's mobile phones are
tested in Australia first. Um, and so space is interesting
(12:45):
because even though it's an economic industry, it's not necessarily
all driven by volume and economies of scale. So space
is driven a lot by innovation too. So you can
have something innovative, you don't need to be large. And
Australia is generally punched above its weight when it comes
to that. You know, an example being Wi Fi, right? So,
Wi Fi was invented in Australia.
And the radio astronomy world, and of course it went
(13:05):
around the world. Um, so the way we see it
is Australia is well placed as far as our stability
of our government, where we are in the world. We're
a technology nation and we can do it with innovation.
So my answer to that is yes, it's really, really important.
On the sovereign peace or on Australia having its own capabilities,
I think that'll become more and more important as the
(13:25):
world becomes a bit more unstable. And, um, you know,
Australia is connected to the world from undersea cables, you know,
from 5 or 6 cities in Australia, and that's the
only connectivity we really have. So, having an alternative to that,
you know, if there's earthquakes, you know, we've seen countries
go offline. So I think at the end of the day,
it'll become more and more important for Australia, and so,
For all of these reasons, I think the answer is
(13:46):
yes to all three questions. Hm. Now, Phil, I'm gonna
go a little bit off script here, but I've, uh,
I've got so many questions for you. It's such a
fascinating topic that when you and I first met, you
were working for Unwired a number of years ago, and
at the time what Unwired was doing was quite revolutionary,
having a, a home broadband technology, um,
Which was, you know, effectively the, the very early version
(14:09):
of what we would now have as a 5G home
broadband service using Unwired. That later became Vivid Wireless. I'm curious,
did the work that you did at Unwired and Vivid
Wireless using terrestrial wireless technologies, how applicable has some of
that work been to what you're doing now at Quasar? I,
I think there's a fair bit of overlap. I'd probably
(14:30):
say about 50%.
It's on the ground with terrestrial networks, you've gotta have locations,
you've got customers, you've got frequencies that you have to
coordinate with the other guys. Those things are still the
same in space, you know, you still have things where
there is literally radio spectrum and you're talking in space,
and you've got to be careful that you don't interfere
with other satellites in space and also with the ground.
There's infrastructure needs, so it's a very capital intensive business,
(14:52):
the telco business, and so is space when you look
at some of the cost of the ground stations.
But a lot of it's different too. So there are
things in space, there are problems in space that simply
don't come up on Earth, you know, so we, we
don't have collision alerts with, uh, rail stations, you know,
you know, it's a lot more easy to predict where
things are. You know, satellites often aren't where they should be.
You know, we predict where a satellite is, and we
(15:13):
find out that it's not actually where it is, and
there's quite a lot of technologies around the world. So
I suppose, you know, there's a reasonable overlap, but space
just adds that layer of complexity on top of all
of that.
Uh, you know, the telco, the ranges are different, you know,
the beams have to be different, narrow, and yeah, so
I guess there's some overlap. It's a good background, but
space is hard, you know, it, it, it's hard.
(15:36):
Now, let's shift gears a little bit and talk away
from space and and more about leadership and your role
as a leader in, in your organisation.
I want to give you the opportunity to put out
one call or request or a wish to all leaders
of enterprise and government organisations in order to realise or
to avoid missing out on an incredible future opportunity or
(15:59):
to prevent making a big mistake. If you had one wish,
one request for all business and government leaders, what would
it be and why?
Mm. Well, I would say we really seriously need to
support the Australian homegrown space industry. And it's not because
I'm in the industry, it's because if you look at financially, economically,
you know, defense-wise, there's a million reasons why we should
(16:21):
really invest more in space in Australia. We can do it,
we should.
Do it. It'll make a big difference to our economy,
but also we can export a lot of this. So,
I would say to all the industries out there, if
you want to invest in Australia, invest in space. Can
we do it? Again, Wi Fi, a classic example, was never,
never intended to get out in the wild and cover
the whole world. It was invented, you know, by, in fact,
(16:41):
our chairman is one of the inventors of Wi Fi, but,
We are very, very capable of doing this, but we
need the investment, we need the support, and we need
the logistics between government and industry to make this work.
And if we don't focus, we're gonna fall behind because
everyone else is doing it.
Is there a particular niche that you would say Australia
should seek to specialise in? I mean, it's such a
huge industry. You've got launch capabilities, you've got ground station capabilities,
(17:05):
you've got the manufacturer of the physical satellites or the launches.
There's so many areas across this um, this space. Uh, if,
if Australia was going to specialise, should it seek to
go for a particular niche or it should should it
try to develop the industry across the board?
Yeah, good question. Uh, I think a lot of it
is generic across the world. Like we're developing around rockets, uh,
(17:26):
of course, in Queensland, you know, Gilmore's supposed to doing
a fantastic job there. We're launching. So there are a
lot of things that are generic around the world, but
what Australia's really famous for, and it's because of the
quality of our universities and because we're a technology nation,
we are really, really good at the digital side. We're
good at the software side, and we're good at, um,
AO and ML. So the sorts of things that are
innovative that are different.
(17:47):
Uh, what we're very good at. So for example, in Australia,
we've got some amazing systems developed here, the Square kilometre Array,
you know, we've got the Over the Horizon radar. There's
some amazing technologies here invented in Australia that we've done.
We need to continue that, and these are things that
are unique that will change the, you know, really change
the landscape. For us, our phased ray technology, we believe
is a world first when we turn it on. And again,
(18:08):
it developed here in Australia. So we can do it.
I wouldn't focus so much on areas where there's volume
and there's competition, but really innovation.
And we are very, very good at that, and we
always have been. Australia's famous for its software capability. Look
at Atlassian, look at all of the things we've developed
here in Australia. So that's where I think we would focus. Now,
final segment, rapid fire Q&A. I'm gonna throw a series
(18:30):
of quick questions at you. Give me the first thing
that pops into your mind, you ready? Alright, alright, let's go.
Number one, what's your favourite piece of technology?
My mobile phone, but it's also my least favourite piece
of technology at the same time. What kind of phone
have you got? Oh, I actually, I've gone to the
dark side. I've had Apple and Android, but at the
moment I'm an Android user. I tend to flip. You're,
(18:50):
you're a technical guy. I knew you'd be an Android user.
I could just pick it. Tech people always are. How
do you disconnect?
Uh, actually, I don't watch TV, but I listen to
a lot of music, all sorts of music. So, um,
if I need to chill out, I'll put it on
my headphones and listen to music. Most of my music
was written by people who'd been dead for a long time, unfortunately, but, um,
that's my way of chilling out. Go on. Who's your
(19:11):
favourite band then? Uh, well, say band. I'm, I'm a classical,
classical music person, so I'm, I'm into Bach and I'm
into Robert Johnson, and, you know, it, it, I'm into
all sorts of music, but I always go back to
my favourites, I'll admit. Nice. What's the most important thing
that you do for your wellbeing?
I, I take time out with the family, so it's really,
really important. I love the beach, you know, I love
(19:31):
the bush, so I like to get outside and walk
away from computers for a while and just, you know,
reconnect with nature. It's so important for a million reasons.
What's one thing that would surprise people about you?
Uh, I'm right-handed when I write, but I'm left-handed with
everything else, and I don't know why. I always have been.
That is weird, some serious left right brain action going on. Yeah,
(19:52):
I do everything left-handed except right. I don't know why.
What's the one personal trait most important to success?
I think, I think it's tenacity, probably tenacity and adaptability together.
You know, there's always problems to solve, it's how you,
how you approach them that makes the difference, I think.
What's the one thing that there needs to be more
(20:13):
of in business today?
I want to say diversity. Uh, I think the more
interesting and varied the people that you have in your organisation,
the more interesting and varied the ideas that come out are,
you know, so I think diversity is super, super important.
The last thing I'll ever want to work is, and
as an organisation with groupthink. So, yep, diversity for me,
and diversity in all its forms. Super important. That is
(20:36):
a great note to finish on. Thank you so much,
CEO of Quasar Satellite Technologies, Phil Ridley. Thanks so much
for joining us on the podcast. Thanks, Luke. It was
a pleasure to be here.
Thanks so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this
episode of Focus Inspire, and we look forward to bringing
you more inspiration in coming episodes. If you've enjoyed this conversation,
(20:57):
we've got so much more to share with you. We've
just released a detailed report called Connectivity for.
0, the new business imperative, featuring trends and insights from
industry leaders and experts and importantly, practical steps to help
you lead your organisation through change. Head to our website
at Focus.com.au to download the full report.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And don't forget, if you want more inspiration and more episodes,
head to Vocus.com.au/podcast. You can follow us on LinkedIn and
Twitter to stay up to date with all things Vocus.
Listen out for the next episode of the Vocus Inspire podcast.
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