February 28, 2023 • 16 mins
In this episode, we discuss some of the biggest challenges facing business and government today – the risks and opportunities on the path to net-zero. In the words of our guest Aidan Ashton, Decarbonisation and Climate Risk Specialist from Energetics, “The world of tomorrow won’t play by the same rules as today,” which sets up a great conversation about the things organisations need to do in order to de-risk their future and unlock opportunities for growth.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Vocus Inspire, the podcast full of brilliant ideas
for business.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, I'm Luke Coleman, head of government and corporate affairs
at Vocus, Australia's leading specialist fibre and network solutions provider.
Before we get things underway, we want to acknowledge and
pay our respects to the traditional custodians of the land
from wherever you're listening. In this podcast, we dive headfirst
into what's on the minds of Australian business and government
(00:30):
leaders to help inspire you and your organisation to go forward,
go further and go faster. So let's go.
Joining us today is Aiden Ashton, head of decarbonisation at Energetics. Aiden,
a pleasure to have you with us today. Thank you, Luke.
(00:52):
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. OK, Aiden,
we're at a barbecue. Someone's asked you what you do
for a job. Go. Well, there's usually a little bit
of an awkward silence.
And then I say, um, that I help organisations understand
the risks and opportunities climate change presents to their business.
(01:14):
In that same conversation, how would you best explain net zero? Well,
this is actually where I get much more comfortable and
talk about how net zero is two things. Firstly, it's
a line in the sand that unites business, policymakers and communities.
To the common goal of basically saving the world.
(01:37):
And secondly, it provides a framework for translating that purpose
and vision into action. There's so much happening with regard
to climate change and the performance and commitments of governments,
industries and companies. Underpinning that, how would you characterise the
shift in investor, supplier, customer, and community expectations?
(02:01):
So simply put, uh, the shift in expectations has been
really hard and fast, and that's because of a couple
of confounding factors.
So net zero is a concept has made climate change
commitments really quite accessible. People understand the concept of it.
And we've also experienced some really quite extreme climate events
(02:24):
in the last few years. Think back to the bushfires
of the summer of 2019 and 2020. I can't.
Really recall exactly how many 1 in 100 year flood
events we're up to in the last 12 months on
the east coast.
And people are joining those dots together. They now understand
(02:47):
that there is that link between these extreme events and
achieving net zero. And so they're really driving and calling
for action. And we're seeing that replicated in the marketplace
as well. Net zero by 2050 is essentially viewed as
business as usual now.
And what we're seeing is this increasing pressure from boards
(03:10):
and investors who really want to see those credible action
plans of exactly how are you gonna get there. Not
so long ago, we saw a push for commitments for
net zero by 2050. That's moved to 2040. Now some
companies such as Vocus are targeting net zero by as
soon as 2025. Do you expect the speed of change
to increase? The short answer is yes.
(03:33):
The long answer is, it really depends who you are
and what your emissions profile looks like.
So if the majority of your emissions are scoped to,
which are those that come from the um electricity that
you use from a grid, then reducing your emissions is
relatively straightforward. It's essentially a procurement exercise for renewable electricity.
(03:57):
In the, in that case, definitely there is an increasing
expectation for you to take action because you can't.
However, if your business
Has significantco one emissions, and these are emissions from fuels
like gas or diesel, you might use it in industrial
processes or to run machinery.
(04:18):
The challenges to achieve net zero are are pretty significant. Um,
in some cases, the technologies required to decarbonize, they don't
actually exist yet. So for those organisations, they need more
time to figure out the answers to those questions.
But I do want to say that just because it's hard, it,
(04:39):
it doesn't excuse inaction. You've got to start trying to
answer these questions now. Looking ahead, what level of activity
and performance do you expect to see from organisations and
governments in 2040? By 2040, decarbonisation should be embedded into
everything we do.
Resilience, mitigation actions, they will all be well established. They'll
(05:03):
be in your business processes and procedures. You'll be making
every business decision against your net zero environmental credentials and their,
their impact.
As a community, collectively, we'll be at a point where
we're trying to navigate the physical impacts of climate change,
(05:24):
which are already locked in. And hopefully, we'll be continuing
to strive for a better world. Now, for many of
our listeners on this podcast, they may be from a
business that's at the very beginning of their journey towards
net zero. from your perspective, what are the key steps
that they should be looking at at this early stage?
The very first step is understanding your emissions profile.
(05:47):
And by this I mean where your emissions come from
and in what quantity. You want to know what that
profile looks like now and how it'll change in future
alongside those changes that you're expecting within your business. From there,
you can develop an understanding of your risk profile and
get an idea of how challenging it'll be for you
(06:07):
to abate those emissions.
But also what opportunities may present themselves as the economy decarbonizes.
And Luke, I also want to flag with your listeners
that if they are about to embark on their net
zero journey, they need to be prepared for some uncomfortable conversations.
(06:29):
You're gonna have to be brave in how you approach
net zero, because to truly decarbonize and to decouple from
fossil fuels, it may require a fundamental rethink and redesign
of what you do and how you do it.
Looking beyond an organization's own operations, how important is the
performance of organisations in your supply chain becoming? The emissions
(06:53):
associated with your upstream and downstream value chain are referred
to as scope-free emissions, and there's increasing expectations around the
quantification and reporting of scope-free emissions. Now, the reason for
this is twofold. You've got
Investors wanting to have greater clarity over your exposure. Um,
(07:17):
and you also have this need to identify where you
can influence and where you can support and encourage your
suppliers to take climate action.
What are the dangers for organisations in terms of not
going far enough with their commitments or perhaps not genuinely
addressing key areas of performance, I think it's called greenwashing.
(07:39):
Indeed, it is. OK, so, sure, in the short term,
there will likely be reputational impacts if your public disclosure
isn't robust. And we're definitely seeing investors taking net zero
commitments and action plans into account whether they're making funding decisions.
But fundamentally, net zero is is about risk management. It's
(08:03):
a framework for doing so. So by not taking action now,
how can you prepare for the uncertainty of what comes next?
It is no exaggeration to say that the world of
tomorrow won't play by the same rules as today.
As the wider economy shifts, you'll potentially lose your social
licence to operate. You'll likely experience rising costs and more
(08:26):
stringent stringent regulation.
So the question for business leaders then becomes, how long
can you afford not to take action?
Now, a few times throughout our conversation, you've mentioned the
increasing importance to investors of having a net zero strategy.
Do you expect increased scrutiny or pressure from interest groups
(08:48):
to grow in this area? And when I say interest groups,
we don't only necessarily mean environmental groups, it may well
be investor groups. Uh, is there any broad examples that
you can share from your experience? Absolutely. The, the scrutiny
is already there and it's becoming much more widespread.
We're seeing more jurisdictions implement mandatory reporting on climate-related risks,
(09:13):
and it's no longer good enough simply to set a target.
Stakeholders want to see a detailed plan of, of how
you're going to get there.
And I think ultimately we're we're seeing that call from
the very highest powers.
Um,
The most recent and high profile example of this is
(09:34):
actually in the UK where the High Court has ordered
the UK government to explain how its net zero policies
will reach that target. A lot of the conversation that
businesses and government are having around net zero right now
is purely on the mechanics. How do we change our
energy makeup to get to net zero? But is there
(09:54):
anything that's missing in that conversation that you think can
play an important role on the journey to net zero?
I would say don't lose sight of the need for
creativity and where creativity comes from.
We're facing new challenges, we're asking new questions. And so
we need to be able to give people the space
(10:15):
to innovate and to explore new ideas.
And that also comes from diversity of thought. So making
sure that you're seeking representation from all walks of life
with all experience levels, um, from all backgrounds, because only
(10:35):
by compiling that wealth of experience.
Can we really strive in designing the tomorrow that we
really need? With so much focus on climate change and
net zero, your expertise must be so highly in demand
right now. How much fun are you having at the moment?
(10:57):
I am having a lot of fun right now.
It's such a privilege to be in a position where
I get to work with organisations who are so motivated
about doing the right thing and making change, and they're
open to having often really quite difficult conversations, which relate to, sure,
(11:22):
in the future, they might not be able to make
their product in the same way that they have done
for centuries.
And they're embracing that change because they want to build
a better world, and we absolutely love working with those
types of people. How can we get more discussion on
the positives and the upside of what we can do
(11:43):
with Net Zero?
It is not all doom and gloom. That's actually the
whole point of net zero, is that when you understand.
What the world is going to look like at 2050,
you now have some boundaries around that uncertainty, and you
can really start to play in them. We're seeing so
much collaboration and creativity. We're seeing new solutions to old problems.
(12:10):
And it's really driving this kind of inspired renaissance within
some quite kind of, um,
Structured industries that have done the same thing in the
same way for a long time, and they feel revitalised
by this process and there is so much opportunity out there. Um,
so it's not just about,
(12:33):
What are the risks. We have to take account of those,
but the decarbonization of our economy has so much potential
for growth, and we need to be able to step
into that and really look at it with curiosity and
wonder of what can we do next.
Now we're going to move slightly shift gears into a
(12:56):
segment where you've got the opportunity to put out one
call or request or wish, uh, to all leaders of
enterprise and government organisations listening to this podcast in order
to realise or avoid missing an incredible opportunity or or
make a big mistake. So, the question to you is,
if you had one wish or request for all business
(13:18):
and government leaders, what would it be and why?
No pressure then Luke. OK.
We are living through really turbulent times at the moment.
And my one request for leaders would be to lay
down your arms.
(13:40):
Stop weaponizing fear, uncertainty and scarcity.
Instead, remain curious and open-minded, so that when you need
to lean into difficult conversations or make a hard decision,
you do what is right rather than what is easy.
Excellent answer. Now, we might jump into the under the
(14:03):
spotlight section, so a few rapid fire questions that I'll
throw at you, keep it short and sweet. So,
What is your favourite piece of technology? The bicycle.
How do you disconnect?
By exploring wild places. What's the most important thing you
do for your well-being? I move. And whether that's rock climbing,
(14:27):
walking or running, just gotta move. What's the one thing
that would surprise people about you?
I'm a big Taylor Swift fan.
What's the one personal trait most important to success?
The capacity to embrace failure. And finally, what's one thing
(14:48):
that there needs to be more of in business today?
Greater diversity in leadership positions. Outstanding. Thank you. Ayan, thanks
so much for providing your insights today. It's such a
topic that is on everybody's lips at the moment. We're
really grateful that you could be with us. Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Thanks so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this
(15:10):
episode of Focus Inspire, and we look forward to bringing
you more inspiration in coming episodes. If you've enjoyed this conversation,
we've got so much more to share with you. We've
just released a detailed report called Connectivity for.
0, the new business imperative, featuring trends and insights from
industry leaders and experts and importantly, practical steps to help
(15:32):
you lead your organisation through change. Head to our website
at ocus.com.au to download the full report.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And don't forget, if you want more inspiration and more episodes,
head to Vocus.com.au/podcast. You can follow us on LinkedIn and
Twitter to stay up to date with all things Vocus.
Listen out for the next episode of the Vocus Inspire podcast.
Welcome to Vocus Inspire, the podcast full of brilliant ideas
for business.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi, I'm Luke Coleman, head of government and corporate affairs
at Vocus, Australia's leading specialist fibre and network solutions provider.
Before we get things underway, we want to acknowledge and
pay our respects to the traditional custodians of the land
from wherever you're listening. In this podcast, we dive headfirst
into what's on the minds of Australian business and government
(00:30):
leaders to help inspire you and your organisation to go forward,
go further and go faster. So let's go.
Joining us today is Aiden Ashton, head of decarbonisation at Energetics. Aiden,
a pleasure to have you with us today. Thank you, Luke.
(00:52):
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. OK, Aiden,
we're at a barbecue. Someone's asked you what you do
for a job. Go. Well, there's usually a little bit
of an awkward silence.
And then I say, um, that I help organisations understand
the risks and opportunities climate change presents to their business.
(01:14):
In that same conversation, how would you best explain net zero? Well,
this is actually where I get much more comfortable and
talk about how net zero is two things. Firstly, it's
a line in the sand that unites business, policymakers and communities.
To the common goal of basically saving the world.
(01:37):
And secondly, it provides a framework for translating that purpose
and vision into action. There's so much happening with regard
to climate change and the performance and commitments of governments,
industries and companies. Underpinning that, how would you characterise the
shift in investor, supplier, customer, and community expectations?
(02:01):
So simply put, uh, the shift in expectations has been
really hard and fast, and that's because of a couple
of confounding factors.
So net zero is a concept has made climate change
commitments really quite accessible. People understand the concept of it.
And we've also experienced some really quite extreme climate events
(02:24):
in the last few years. Think back to the bushfires
of the summer of 2019 and 2020. I can't.
Really recall exactly how many 1 in 100 year flood
events we're up to in the last 12 months on
the east coast.
And people are joining those dots together. They now understand
(02:47):
that there is that link between these extreme events and
achieving net zero. And so they're really driving and calling
for action. And we're seeing that replicated in the marketplace
as well. Net zero by 2050 is essentially viewed as
business as usual now.
And what we're seeing is this increasing pressure from boards
(03:10):
and investors who really want to see those credible action
plans of exactly how are you gonna get there. Not
so long ago, we saw a push for commitments for
net zero by 2050. That's moved to 2040. Now some
companies such as Vocus are targeting net zero by as
soon as 2025. Do you expect the speed of change
to increase? The short answer is yes.
(03:33):
The long answer is, it really depends who you are
and what your emissions profile looks like.
So if the majority of your emissions are scoped to,
which are those that come from the um electricity that
you use from a grid, then reducing your emissions is
relatively straightforward. It's essentially a procurement exercise for renewable electricity.
(03:57):
In the, in that case, definitely there is an increasing
expectation for you to take action because you can't.
However, if your business
Has significantco one emissions, and these are emissions from fuels
like gas or diesel, you might use it in industrial
processes or to run machinery.
(04:18):
The challenges to achieve net zero are are pretty significant. Um,
in some cases, the technologies required to decarbonize, they don't
actually exist yet. So for those organisations, they need more
time to figure out the answers to those questions.
But I do want to say that just because it's hard, it,
(04:39):
it doesn't excuse inaction. You've got to start trying to
answer these questions now. Looking ahead, what level of activity
and performance do you expect to see from organisations and
governments in 2040? By 2040, decarbonisation should be embedded into
everything we do.
Resilience, mitigation actions, they will all be well established. They'll
(05:03):
be in your business processes and procedures. You'll be making
every business decision against your net zero environmental credentials and their,
their impact.
As a community, collectively, we'll be at a point where
we're trying to navigate the physical impacts of climate change,
(05:24):
which are already locked in. And hopefully, we'll be continuing
to strive for a better world. Now, for many of
our listeners on this podcast, they may be from a
business that's at the very beginning of their journey towards
net zero. from your perspective, what are the key steps
that they should be looking at at this early stage?
The very first step is understanding your emissions profile.
(05:47):
And by this I mean where your emissions come from
and in what quantity. You want to know what that
profile looks like now and how it'll change in future
alongside those changes that you're expecting within your business. From there,
you can develop an understanding of your risk profile and
get an idea of how challenging it'll be for you
(06:07):
to abate those emissions.
But also what opportunities may present themselves as the economy decarbonizes.
And Luke, I also want to flag with your listeners
that if they are about to embark on their net
zero journey, they need to be prepared for some uncomfortable conversations.
(06:29):
You're gonna have to be brave in how you approach
net zero, because to truly decarbonize and to decouple from
fossil fuels, it may require a fundamental rethink and redesign
of what you do and how you do it.
Looking beyond an organization's own operations, how important is the
performance of organisations in your supply chain becoming? The emissions
(06:53):
associated with your upstream and downstream value chain are referred
to as scope-free emissions, and there's increasing expectations around the
quantification and reporting of scope-free emissions. Now, the reason for
this is twofold. You've got
Investors wanting to have greater clarity over your exposure. Um,
(07:17):
and you also have this need to identify where you
can influence and where you can support and encourage your
suppliers to take climate action.
What are the dangers for organisations in terms of not
going far enough with their commitments or perhaps not genuinely
addressing key areas of performance, I think it's called greenwashing.
(07:39):
Indeed, it is. OK, so, sure, in the short term,
there will likely be reputational impacts if your public disclosure
isn't robust. And we're definitely seeing investors taking net zero
commitments and action plans into account whether they're making funding decisions.
But fundamentally, net zero is is about risk management. It's
(08:03):
a framework for doing so. So by not taking action now,
how can you prepare for the uncertainty of what comes next?
It is no exaggeration to say that the world of
tomorrow won't play by the same rules as today.
As the wider economy shifts, you'll potentially lose your social
licence to operate. You'll likely experience rising costs and more
(08:26):
stringent stringent regulation.
So the question for business leaders then becomes, how long
can you afford not to take action?
Now, a few times throughout our conversation, you've mentioned the
increasing importance to investors of having a net zero strategy.
Do you expect increased scrutiny or pressure from interest groups
(08:48):
to grow in this area? And when I say interest groups,
we don't only necessarily mean environmental groups, it may well
be investor groups. Uh, is there any broad examples that
you can share from your experience? Absolutely. The, the scrutiny
is already there and it's becoming much more widespread.
We're seeing more jurisdictions implement mandatory reporting on climate-related risks,
(09:13):
and it's no longer good enough simply to set a target.
Stakeholders want to see a detailed plan of, of how
you're going to get there.
And I think ultimately we're we're seeing that call from
the very highest powers.
Um,
The most recent and high profile example of this is
(09:34):
actually in the UK where the High Court has ordered
the UK government to explain how its net zero policies
will reach that target. A lot of the conversation that
businesses and government are having around net zero right now
is purely on the mechanics. How do we change our
energy makeup to get to net zero? But is there
(09:54):
anything that's missing in that conversation that you think can
play an important role on the journey to net zero?
I would say don't lose sight of the need for
creativity and where creativity comes from.
We're facing new challenges, we're asking new questions. And so
we need to be able to give people the space
(10:15):
to innovate and to explore new ideas.
And that also comes from diversity of thought. So making
sure that you're seeking representation from all walks of life
with all experience levels, um, from all backgrounds, because only
(10:35):
by compiling that wealth of experience.
Can we really strive in designing the tomorrow that we
really need? With so much focus on climate change and
net zero, your expertise must be so highly in demand
right now. How much fun are you having at the moment?
(10:57):
I am having a lot of fun right now.
It's such a privilege to be in a position where
I get to work with organisations who are so motivated
about doing the right thing and making change, and they're
open to having often really quite difficult conversations, which relate to, sure,
(11:22):
in the future, they might not be able to make
their product in the same way that they have done
for centuries.
And they're embracing that change because they want to build
a better world, and we absolutely love working with those
types of people. How can we get more discussion on
the positives and the upside of what we can do
(11:43):
with Net Zero?
It is not all doom and gloom. That's actually the
whole point of net zero, is that when you understand.
What the world is going to look like at 2050,
you now have some boundaries around that uncertainty, and you
can really start to play in them. We're seeing so
much collaboration and creativity. We're seeing new solutions to old problems.
(12:10):
And it's really driving this kind of inspired renaissance within
some quite kind of, um,
Structured industries that have done the same thing in the
same way for a long time, and they feel revitalised
by this process and there is so much opportunity out there. Um,
so it's not just about,
(12:33):
What are the risks. We have to take account of those,
but the decarbonization of our economy has so much potential
for growth, and we need to be able to step
into that and really look at it with curiosity and
wonder of what can we do next.
Now we're going to move slightly shift gears into a
(12:56):
segment where you've got the opportunity to put out one
call or request or wish, uh, to all leaders of
enterprise and government organisations listening to this podcast in order
to realise or avoid missing an incredible opportunity or or
make a big mistake. So, the question to you is,
if you had one wish or request for all business
(13:18):
and government leaders, what would it be and why?
No pressure then Luke. OK.
We are living through really turbulent times at the moment.
And my one request for leaders would be to lay
down your arms.
(13:40):
Stop weaponizing fear, uncertainty and scarcity.
Instead, remain curious and open-minded, so that when you need
to lean into difficult conversations or make a hard decision,
you do what is right rather than what is easy.
Excellent answer. Now, we might jump into the under the
(14:03):
spotlight section, so a few rapid fire questions that I'll
throw at you, keep it short and sweet. So,
What is your favourite piece of technology? The bicycle.
How do you disconnect?
By exploring wild places. What's the most important thing you
do for your well-being? I move. And whether that's rock climbing,
(14:27):
walking or running, just gotta move. What's the one thing
that would surprise people about you?
I'm a big Taylor Swift fan.
What's the one personal trait most important to success?
The capacity to embrace failure. And finally, what's one thing
(14:48):
that there needs to be more of in business today?
Greater diversity in leadership positions. Outstanding. Thank you. Ayan, thanks
so much for providing your insights today. It's such a
topic that is on everybody's lips at the moment. We're
really grateful that you could be with us. Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Thanks so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this
(15:10):
episode of Focus Inspire, and we look forward to bringing
you more inspiration in coming episodes. If you've enjoyed this conversation,
we've got so much more to share with you. We've
just released a detailed report called Connectivity for.
0, the new business imperative, featuring trends and insights from
industry leaders and experts and importantly, practical steps to help
(15:32):
you lead your organisation through change. Head to our website
at ocus.com.au to download the full report.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And don't forget, if you want more inspiration and more episodes,
head to Vocus.com.au/podcast. You can follow us on LinkedIn and
Twitter to stay up to date with all things Vocus.
Listen out for the next episode of the Vocus Inspire podcast.
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