December 18, 2025 • 41 mins
We’re diving into the first four episodes of Emily In Paris Season 5… unpacking everything from Emily’s Italian adventure and the cultural contrasts between Rome, Paris, and the U.S., to the brand new relationships testing friendships.
You’ll learn about:
Italian Culture & Fashion:
We explore the clash of cultures, from dining customs to flirting norms, and the ways Italian fashion and cinema-inspired styling reflect Emily’s emotional journey.
Friendships, Romance & Girl Code:
Yep, it’s time to talk about Mindy and Alfie’s tricky dynamic… we unpack the ethical grey area of dating your friend’s ex and the unspoken social rules of friendship.
Emily’s Evolution & Season 5 Stakes:
We dive into how Emily is growing as a professional and as a person - including the moments that hint at what the rest of the season may hold.
It’s everything you need to know about Emily’s Italian chapter… the friendships, the drama, and the fashion — before you binge the rest of Season 5.
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CREDITS
Hosts: Monisha Iswaran, Tina Burke & Chelsea Hui
Executive Producers: Georgie Page & Monisha Iswaran
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
Video Editor: Michael Kean
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders
that this podcast is recorded on cant help you can't
help you.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
From Mamma Mia. Welcome to The Spills watch Party, where
we unpack the biggest shows that the entire world is
talking about. My name is mansiaus Warren. I'm the executive
producer of Mamma MIA's entertainment podcast, The Spill, as well
as this podcast watch party, and today we are talking
about one of my absolute favorite shows of all time,
Emily in Paris, and I'm joined by two fellow super
(00:46):
fans who love Emily as much as I do.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I am Tina Burke. I am Mama MIA's pop culture
and social editor. I am obsessed with all things entertainment
and Hollywood, and I love a girl called Emily Cooper
and anything made by Darren Starr.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So I'm very excited to be here.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
And I'm Chelsea, who are mom and MIA's entertainment producer,
And like Tina, i am a fiend for anything pop
culture related, but I'm also a fashion girly and I'm
a frequent co host on the Nothing to Wear podcast
and Emily Mars is really my two worlds colliding, so
it's one of my favorite shows.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So the three of us are epic fangirls of this
show and we have been spending our time binging this
season so we can get all across it to bring
you our thoughts, feelings and deep dives. And in this episode,
we are going to be covering everything that happens in
the first four episodes, so there will be spoilers if
you haven't watched the first four, but we won't go
beyond that, so you're totally safe if you're only up
to ep four. So we're going to dive into everything
(01:36):
from Emily's Italian adventure and how really different it feels
to her og Paris life, as well as some very
controversial relationships that are definitely crossing lines this season. So
we sort of start this season off seeing her in Rome.
(01:58):
She's starting her life there, she's trying to get agent
Scratcho's Italian leg off the ground, and one thing that
really stood out to me is that in season one,
she's obviously living that expat life as an American in Paris,
and we see all these cult comparisons drawn between American
culture and French culture, and now we sort of have
this third element into the mix. So it's the Italians
via the French. The Americans, her French colleagues who come
(02:20):
over have a lot to say about the Italians. Did
that really stand out to you guys in terms of
I felt this real rivalry between the French and the
Italians in these first few episodes.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I mean, I was expecting it going in, considering there
was like geopolitical discourse about like Emily in Paris moving
to Rome, it was a very big deal. But yeah,
there was definitely like a vibe shift because where in
Paris everything was like that little bit more like chic
and elevated and exclusionary.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
In Italy, it had its own thing going on.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
I also think the fish out of Water and like
cultural clash is part of the reason we love the show,
and it's like a real pillar of the show, and
a lot of the humor and the conflict that we
see really derived from that Emily's culture clash in Paris,
and I think we needed a new chapter, a new place,
a new experience, and that was Rome.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I agree. I think it really took it back to
that season one vibe in that way of like everything's new.
She didn't know anything, shen. I mean, not that she
knows much French, but she knows absolutely no Italian. Yeah,
so it really reminded me of the lens through which
we saw France in season one, and there were just
a bunch of times where that came up, and it
was really stark in terms of how the French few
Italians in the workplace. And one of the first times
(03:26):
was when Emily was with Marchello's family and she's trying
to really push discussing business ideas because obviously they acquired
the Moratory account and she's in the kitchen, Marchello's mum
is making risotto, and she just goes, we don't discuss
business at dinner, and it's a full put down of like,
And I think that's really evident in terms of how
different Americans are to Europeans, and something that I think
(03:48):
Emily has also encountered in France because they just don't
mix business and pleasure as much as Americans do in
that kind of setting. Can I do.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Anything to help, Oh, nothing left to do now, but sir.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
It smells delicious, Antonia.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Can I talk to you about a few ideas that
I have not well, I'm.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
Making risotto, no problem, I'll talk to your dinner.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Oh we don't discuss business at dinner another time, relax enjoy.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
She kind of keeps learning these lessons over the time
that she's in Italy, and it's like she just spent
all that time learning how to do it in Paris,
and now they're like, here's a new challenge. She learns
all of these things you don't discuss at dinner. Yes,
can me No, Like she kind of has that moment
of realization where she's like, I'm not working in Rome.
I've lost my touch. I don't know what I'm doing.
And it's because she doesn't know how business works here.
She's not used to it.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
But she honestly reads some xpat guys. Because I looked
this up and it was telling me all these things.
It was like, so, you know, when you're doing business
in Italy, it's good to stay on non commercial topics
in an eating setting, and non commercial.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Topics in marketing or just while you're eating.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well, I think it's your boyfriend's mom.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Okay, good.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I think it's particularly hard for Emily though, because she
we know notoriously she mixes business and pleasure, so how
do you suffer it the two?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
And she's been like waiting for this meeting for ages
and suddenly they have the meeting and it's like, actually,
you can't talk about the meeting.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Now because we're serving food. Sorry, and we ruined your shoes.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, that trouble hunting thing was ridiculous. Like what you
mentioned there about how Emily has gotten used to the
fact that Italians start things off with a yes and
it's a little bit noncommittal. I thought that scene was
really interesting when she's unpacking that with her French colleagues
and they're like, oh, in France, we start a conversation
with a no, because then you can only like you're
not committed to anything, whereas in Italy they start everything
(05:33):
with see or yes in a business setting. And I
was reading up a little bit on that, and apparently
that is the case, that it's a very noncommittal yes
in a business sense. It's sort of an umbrella yes
and we'll see where we go from here. Well that went, well, Nope,
it didn't, she said. See. I mean sure it wasn't
an idea for Paris.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
When Italians say yes, they don't always mean it.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
They valuablitness.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
They don't want to offend, so they say yes even
if they don't agree.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Ah, Like how the French always start everything with a no.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
No, we don't well at least answering no. Give you
the option of the letter saying yes.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
You start with yes, then you're stuck not either, they're.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Just thinking back later.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Do you think FRIENDY will ever give us another chance?
Speaker 5 (06:14):
That's a no.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
It's interesting how across cultures there are those little nuances
that you really would only know once you've lived there
and understand the contacts or reminds you of Like in
Australia when we say like yeah na.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Yeah, yeah, we all know what that means.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Yeah, but I can imagine for a foreigner you would
have no idea what those little intricacies are.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
When I moved here from Singapore almost ten years ago,
I was very confused by the yenna nah yeah culture,
and I was just told the second one is.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
There, the one you pay attention. That's what you go with, Yeah,
n as I know nah yeah is a yes.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, it makes so much sense. Yeah, that's good advice.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
The second one you pay attention to. Emily needed something
like that. You're right, she needed like a little guide book. Yeah,
business for Americans in Italy. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
I thought.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Another thing that was interesting is we see Princess Jane,
the new character, who is what an addition, I know,
Sylvie's friend who is married into royalty, lives in Rome.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Broke to go on tiptop now to get money. Yeah,
and there was an interesting scene where she met Sylvie
and Sylvie's little affair man and he pretended to the crowns.
It's like the man that she married wasn't even considered
really royal. But that's key, someone who had claimed he
was but didn't have a current claim to the title.
So it's like that's why they're broke and living in
a castle that they rent out as an airbab. But
(07:32):
that was played by Mini Driver obviously, and she was
so much fun in the role.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
She is a heap of fun. I guess the same
way some men lie about their heights, some lie about
their royal status.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Some lie about their royal status.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yes, she was hoodwinked, but she added so much to
the Italian journey, especially for their careers this season with
the booking and the fee is what killed me. Every
time that she offered to do something.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, yeah, like I can send you up with FEddi
for a fee.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I guess that is maybe how consulting were I don't know,
but I don't know how much she was bringing to
the company. She also said something interesting about her time
in Italy. She said, no one spoke to me in
three years, and I'm royalty. And I did read a
little bit about how social life in Rome. It does
seem on the surface very friendly, and you know, if
you're in a bar or a cafe, people do tend
to talk to you. But I was having a little
(08:14):
read on like expat experiences in Rome, and it is
apparently quite difficult to break into the social fabric. It
has that almost small towny feel, but in a big
city where once you're not in the fold and you
come in as a foreigner, it's quite difficult to work
your way in and almost impossible, some people have said,
to actually break into a fold that isn't just other expats.
So I thought her saying that was a little bit
(08:34):
of a reflection on that.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
That's so interesting because Emily kind of obviously when she
moved to Paris, we saw her trying and to establish
all kinds of connections. But she wasn't trying to in
Rome with the exception of business, so like we only
saw it through the work lens. She wasn't trying to
make friends because she has her friends and she just
ships them over.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
To Rome with her.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
She had a boyfriend, like she was fine. She shipped
her whole company over with her. So like the only
way we were able to explore that dynamic was through
her career. So it was really interesting that our princess
played by Mini Driver was offering that lens of like
it's really exclusive. You need someone on the inside to
help you. That would be so stressful. Felt like I
was at Agent's grotto, Like I felt like I was
(09:12):
there trying to start at myself.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I was really stressed.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I know, I was, Like, guys, there wasn't a lot
of planning in this whole movie. You just sort of
got an office.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Funny as well, like them moving everything over and no
one is left in the Paris.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
They're just on zoom.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I know, especially for someone like Sylvie, I know that
she's a bit I'm going for a smoke in the
middle of the day. It's the French way, but she's also.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So business minded and has such a stake and a
love in her own business. It was just so strange
to see her be like, and now I'm in Rome,
and I guess no one's in Paris other than Genevieve.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, well, she was very interested in staying in Rome
due to her Italian lover, but we can get.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
To that later.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Gian Carlo I thought one other thing that was interesting
was Marcello at the party in the mansion, where he
decides to pretty much flirt with every x he's ever had,
it seems, in these few episodes in front of his
new girlfriend. And he explained that away as that's how
Italians talk. We're just very expressive. We use our hands
a lot, which obviously Italians are renowned worldwide for being
(10:09):
very expressive, very passionate when they're speaking. I still don't
think you need to quite me quite that passionate when
you're speaking to your ex girlfriends.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
But what do you guys think.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
The fact that we're talking about multiple ex girlfriends as
like the real red flag. I can like understand in
some cultures there's like a physicality where there's like an
unspoken language. Italian culture being one of those well, yeah,
they are very expressive.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
It's very physical.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
But Emily, in a short period in a week, having
to encounter two exes, I know, it's bizarre.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
That is a red flag.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I don't know that man just gave me the ick
all season long, Like in these episodes, he was just
he didn't seem to understand much of what she was
doing with him, like as in, like they go truffle hunting,
he doesn't warn her about the shoes, they go hang
out with all his exes. He doesn't say anything till
she feels noticeably uncomfortable and tries to leave. He just
was giving me the ick in not understanding like that
he was in a relationship with somebody who's kind of
(10:57):
a vibe of that whole Castle scene.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Also, his apology didn't really land because I'll pick you
up tomorrow, don't worry. And then she's like, I'm sorry, yeah, projected,
I overreacted. I'm like, nah, he was.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Like really flirting with his exod Yeah, yeah, I think
you're allowed to.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, And that's the current thing that we picked up
on that as being something she did a bit this season,
And I wonder what the reasoning was because it felt
strange that she apologized in that instance. It's like, I
don't really think you did anything wrong, but it's like
they're trying to.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Make her character like that bit more like likable. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So one of the brands that they acquire during their
time in Italy is called Intimacy. It's a lingerie brand,
and this spark's a whole thing for Emily because she's
trying to figure out how to sell lingerie agents. Gratto's
whole thing is we want to prove the French can
sell sex better than the Italians. This is such a
funny little arc because Emily always sort of struggles with
those things that are more on the sexy side, to
deal with intimacy, and I feel like it's a real
(11:48):
commentary from the Europeans that, you know, Americans are a
little bit more reserved because Europe's just known for being
a bit more out there and like embracing all of
that kind of stuff. And she definitely gets that feedback
from Luke and Julia that they obviously think she's a
bit of a quote unquote prude. We saw last season
when Gabrielle wanted to have sex on the roof and
she had a bit of a freak out. She was like,
I just want to be an event. I really see
(12:10):
Emily struggle with coming up with the tagline there, whether
you know, to go full out or be a little
bit more reserved in how she markets it. What did
you guys think of her approach to selling intimacy.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, I think obviously she was called out for having
intimacy issues by her coworkers and has been called a
prune and everything, so I think she tried to go
the opposite direction and like really channeled like everything she's
learned in France about being sexy. She pitched something that
just wasn't seen as right for the actual Italian audience
versus like what she thought they would want, Like she
wanted to be like it's like better than naked, like
(12:41):
as in the sexiest you can look as wearing lingerie
and like the princess was in the meeting with her
and she's like, it's just a bit confusing, Sweedie, like
no one understands that, and she kind of learned that actually,
according to intimacy, Italians more interested in like the connection
and the meaning, so she had to go away and
find that again. So I feel like she's learned a
lot about her, you know, Italian culture in her very
short time in Rome.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Now, while we're on the topic of sort of clothes
and garments and that kind of area, Chelse, you're a
real fashion girlie, and the fashion this season has been
a little bit different. Obviously, she's in a different place,
the setting is different. A lot of it's giving Audrey
Hepburn Roman holiday callbacks. What can you tell us about
her Roman edition of fashion?
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I mean, with a show like this where the fashion
is almost like a character in itself, so pivotal to
the show every season, I think we've seen a bit
of an evolution this season. Yes, we lean very heavily
into Italian fashion, and the costume designer, Marilyn Fittucci, has
said that they're leaning into like glamorous black and white
Italian movies. They've taken a lot of inspo from like
(13:39):
old Hollywood stars, so like Sophia Loren, Silvana Mangano, Coudia Cardinali,
and like all these icons who have like real style
and a lot of personality. We see Emily even all
the promotional picks and in the first few episodes in
Rome in a lot of polka dots, which feels very
very Italian, and even in the press tour outfits, we
know that, especially Lily Collins, being like the fashion icon
(13:59):
that she is, always slays a red carpet. But they
recently did like a photo call in Venice, so all
three ladies were wearing Italian designers Philippine Leroy, Bellu in Ferragamo,
Lily Collins and Scaparelli.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
She loves that brand.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
It's an Italian founded French oak couture house, Ashley Park.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
And Antonio Grimaldi.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
They're really leaning into Italian fashion brands this season, both
in the show and in real life. And yeah, but
shows like this, I find it always really interesting that
the fashion really reflects where Emily is, what state of
mind she's in, where she is, and the culture she's
kind of trying to assimilate into.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Did you have a favorite look of the first few episodes?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Oh, when they go to the Fendi shop, she's wearing
this like jumpsuit.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
It's like silky and it's like geometric tiles or like
something's going on.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
It's like a kind of like scarf print.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yes, yes, there's a real like interesting pattern on it. It
feels it's very Italian and.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Spirit and she's so depressed, but she looks so good.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah, She's like sitting there like she's like, I haven't slept,
and she's got big sunglasses on and she's like, I
think my boyfriend's going to break up.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
He's saying you to buy a Fendi bag and you
look great.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
That might be the only moment in the first few
episodes where I'm like, Okay, march alone, all right.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Himself with that one. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
We also see in that scene a little musical drop
in of this song which will be very familiar to
Sex and the City fans. What that is got to
(15:45):
be real by Cheryl Lynn, And it's a very famous
song from Sex and the City, famous for you played
in season four when Carrie Bradshaw has her iconic runway
full and we see it here where Emily is taken
by Marcello to go and get a Fendy bag, which
is very Sex in the City coded, and I loved
that little Darren Starr callback there. So obviously we've only
seen up till episode four, and at the end of
(16:05):
episode four it's revealed that they're going back to Paris.
Do you think that is something that will be reflected
in the fashion.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
One hundred percent. The costume designers have been very open
about the fact that where Emily is reflects in what
she wears. Season one and two, we saw so many
bold colors. We saw a lot of bucket hats, random prints.
I think episode one, when she shows up at Jean Scratto,
she's literally wearing like a Paris Eiffel power printed shirt.
It's really bold, it's a little bit obnoxious. And as
(16:32):
the seasons have progressed and she's become more Prisian, more French,
her style has reflected that and become a little bit
more understated, a little bit more luxurious.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I guess we have seen broth from Emily because she
didn't show up in a T shirt with the coliseum
on it or something.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
That's progress.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So after the break, we are going to get stuck
into what I would say is the juiciest plot line
that we were all kind of waiting for this season,
and I'm pretty sure most people feel the same. So
we're going to be unpacking that next Okay, so we
absolutely have to talk about the relationship that we saw
teased in the trailer and that we've now seen come
to fruition and I don't know how to feel about it,
(17:08):
which is Mindy and Alfie Chelsea, what can you tell
us about what we've seen so far?
Speaker 5 (17:13):
So we saw this coming.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
It was in the trailer Emily's off to Rome, which
leaves Mindy and Alfie in Paris alone, meeting up as friends.
They get dinner, sparks start flying, they're starting to flirt.
It's kind of entering that territory of maybe something romantic,
and it freaks Mindy out a little bit. She's like, okay,
like what is this? She goes off to Rome to
(17:36):
visit Emily and she's kind of texting with Alfie, and conveniently,
Alfie also ends up in.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Rome for work as it is in this show.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
And she gets recruited for this strange Italian dance competition
show and she needs help rehearsing, so why not call Alfi.
They have a little in the same hotel, saying at
the same hotel.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
And weirdly, his mother apparently made him take ballroom dancing
lessons growing up, so they have.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
A little dance.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Things are kind of heating up. They share a kiss
and then things kind of snow from there where they're
kind of intimate with each other, but they're hiding this
from Emily the entire time.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
And this is a real look at girl code, isn't it.
And whether or not Mindy has crossed the line here,
because I don't know about you, guys, but I think
she was one hundred percent across the line. I know
she did initially in one of the first episodes of
the season try and sort of float with Emily like, oh,
you don't steal her feelings for Alphie, do you? And
Emily was like, nah, but that's a little bit different.
(18:36):
You're not giving context to why I ask in that question.
If I suddenly asked one of you guys, oh, do
you still have feelings for next You'd probably be like no,
and they'd be like, well, I'm.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
In love with him, or I'm not in love but
i'm dating him.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
We may feel a little bit differently. I did a
bit of a deep dive into girl Code because I
wanted to clarify for myself before we weigh in on
whether or not she did break girl code what exactly
girl code is. And what I found was that psychologists
talk about unspoken social contracts, rules that we don't write down,
but we expect people close to us to honor and
girl code is basically that. A lot of it's rooted
(19:07):
in attachment theory because a lot of people see close
female friendships as sort of emotional safe havens in the
chaos of life. And one thing I think that really
defines whether or not you have broken girl code is
what level of friendship you are at with that person.
And with Mindy and Emily, she is her ride or
die in Paris. This is not a casual friend. This
is someone she met on a park bench but turned
(19:29):
into a lifelong bestie. They live together. She's been there
through the chaos, the heartbreak, the career highs and lows.
I think the level of friendship really matters here, which
is why I strongly feel like she has crossed the line.
Where do you guys sit with that?
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Yeah, she crossed the line.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
For me.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
I think starting a relationship with Alphie is one thing,
but the complete lack of communication and the lying is
where you get me. Do I think that you could
date a friend's X. I wouldn't do it, but I
think it depends on how that friend feels about that
relationship at that time and whether they care or not,
and Mindy never really had that conversation with Emily and
they proceed to lie for several episodes, which I.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Think is the problem.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Completely agree with you, Chelsea. I think that's gonna be
the biggest question on everyone's lips is does this action
potentially break girl code? I had the chance to sit
down with Lily Collins and Ashley Park to talk about
season five of Emily in Paris, which was obviously so
exciting and there were so many things that we wanted
to talk to them about, but the biggest one, of course,
had to be does this action break the girl code?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
And here's what they had to say about that.
Speaker 6 (20:31):
Well, I think, you know, there's a scene where Mindy
asks Emily, like, you're cool. You guys are all okay, right,
and it's like Emily genuinely is okay. It's like at
this point Alphie is less of an ex and more
of a coworker friend, like it's not an immediate X,
and they have a respect for each other in a
work in the workplace now, and Emily is like, cool,
(20:53):
They're cool.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
And so I think.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
It's all about the communication. Again, no spoilers, but their
communication between Mindy and Emily is what ultimately is the
most hurtful, not what happens. And so I think everyone's
going to have different boundary in their relationships with their friends.
But I think what's key is making sure that you
speak with honesty, with truth, with empathy, and with love
(21:19):
and the communication.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
Yeah, And I think both of these girls in particular
have been having different kinds of identity crisis as we've
seen in five seasons. The one thing that has been
steadfast is that they're each other safe place.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
And they're each other's kind of home.
Speaker 7 (21:31):
And I think that that's, you know, that's very It
shakes them to the core when they're not able to
be that for each other. And I actually, you know,
what I'll say in Standby is that I think the
what's most realistic and genuine is not being perfect.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Right.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
It's something that we've talked about that we as women
and also in terms of female friendships, like to have
that pressure of being perfect or else it's not a
good thing, and not a great thing is.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Not great.
Speaker 7 (21:59):
So I think that it's really it to bring that
kind of realistic texture of like overcoming something together when
you felt like you had to be a part I
think is kind of I'm really proud of.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
So I think obviously they gave like a really nuanced
answer to that question. It's kind of a two parter
answer as well, which touches on I think a lot
of the feelings that all three of us really took
away from watching these scenes, but in particular the scenes
of the initial kiss and everything. What Lily has described
is what you touched on, Chelsea, which is like, it's
not necessarily that Emily would still have feelings for Alphie.
(22:30):
It's not necessarily that she would have seen the idea
of them as a couple of something that would upset her.
But it's more about the fact that this has now
happened in secret, and any continuation of a lie, or
of miscommunication or of like not being super clear with
each other on where it's going, that would be the
problem in the friendship, and that's going to be the
thing that brings attension. But I really loved what Ashley
had to say about MINDI, which is like, we're talking
(22:51):
about this in terms of the characters, right, Like we're saying,
as a friend, would it break girl code?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
As a friend, would you be upset if someone did this?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And will obviously inevitably see that play out in the
coming episodes, but it's also really good to include these
kinds of mistakes that women make sometimes in their lives.
And that's the really interesting thing that Ashley touched on,
and it's a big conversation that has happened previously around
like Carrie Bradshaw, or like Miranda and Samantha and the
mistakes that they make in Sex in the City and
how women can be unlikable sometimes women can make mistakes sometimes,
(23:21):
and so it's a bit of a two parter, which
is really interesting. What do you think of that.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
I also love.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
What Ashley said about seeing imperfect women on screen and
how that's really important. My only qualm with that is
I would love to see a little bit more accountability
from Mindy. I agree women can be imperfect. I'm a
staunch supporter of Emily, Carrie, Miranda, Samantha, all these women
who are imperfect, and as much as the public love
to criticize these women, I think it's so important to
(23:46):
see different kinds of women who make mistakes and friendships
that kind of break apart and how they come back together.
But we haven't yet seen how this is going to
play out between Emily and Mindy. But what was liking
for me in those early days of her getting together
with ALPHI is her not having a second thought about
how Emily would feel about this and kind of continuing
this affair behind her back.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I think it was also interesting what they said. It
sort of echoes what we were talking about earlier. That
girl who and female friendships is considered a very safe
space for a lot of people, and that is your
little safe corner in the chaos of the world, and
that is really what has rocked Emily to her core,
is that that little safe corner has now been imploded
with uncertainty and something that you didn't see coming. So
(24:27):
I do agree that probably the issue wasn't the act itself,
but the lack of communication and I guess feeling like
you've been blindsided. There's very few things in life probably
where if you were just sat down and it was
explained to you and the feelings were all talked out,
that you would be so shaken by It often is
about the lack of transparency or the fact that something
(24:47):
hasn't been warned or flagged with you beforehand, especially when
it was something where there is a lot of emotional
residue there.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, obviously we will see how this all plays out,
but obviously there would be There are many women in
the real world who will have experienced this in their friendships,
and so it's great to show the different perspectives on
screen and for us to get to explore this dynamic.
I have been on the record saying I didn't want
this to be how this relationship was explored, and I
stand by that. I would have liked for the Alphi
(25:14):
and Mindy thing to come about in a different way.
And that's just for me and how I choose to
enjoy this show and like what I want from it.
I still love all of these characters and I'm excited
to see what happens and where it goes. But I
do agree with you, Chelsea that I think maybe we
needed a bit more time to delve into this if
we wanted to go this route of showing this storyline,
And because the episodes, like because there's not that many
of them, it just felt like we really rushed into
(25:35):
this thing and it's got a bit more tension and
not enough time to show the thinking of what's going
on with Mindy, and maybe the attention and detail and
care that could have been given to it. If we're
going to go into something that could maybe ruin a
friendship and how that would play out.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Yeah, I completely agree. I'm not a huge fan of
the word they've done.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
It, but I'm hoping that Emily and Mindy will come
out of the stronger and that you know, by the
end of the season, we'll see the dynamic duo back
together and hopefully having some difficult conversations.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
And on that Argentine tango, because I was a really
big fan of that sort of arc. Seeing Mindy have
to learn this dance, I had a bit of a
rogue thought as to whether it's a metaphor. Stay with me.
Here them doing the Argentine Tango in private. It's this
sort of sexy secret when he picks her up, it
works so well, and then when that's taken public on
the dance competition stage, she falls flat on her face.
(26:25):
Is that a metaphor for when this relationship comes out
comes to light and listen sings it. Yeah, and everyone
finds out that it's going to be an absolute flop
and not take off. And they maybe did quite a
literal metaphor which they like to do in Emily in
Paris of her literally crashing and falling on her face.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Let's hope maybe I took it to a different play
like that.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Why not.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I don't know if it's a controversial opinion, because famously.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Last episode I was all for this. I don't care.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
I love mixing up the different couples and seeing what happens,
and I also love those two characters individually. Yeah, I
personally wasn't really a fan of the chemistry. I felt, yeah,
casing maybe was wrong. We didn't have any build up
from the first episode. Them having dinner and the sparks
flying didn't feel organic to me.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Even the tango I.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Felt, oh to like close my eyes.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah, I was cringing so bad, which is I'm shocked
because I love these two actors. I like these two characters,
so you would think that putting them together would make sense,
and I think that's probably what the producers were thinking
when they did it.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, I think I agree with you. I was all
for this and I was really excited about it. But
the fact that it feels kind of rushed into, like
I think we could have done that first episode where
they go to dinner and she starts to realize that
there's a bit of a spark or something there. I
think we needed like a whole season's worth of build
up tension or pining or build up and actual conversations
with Emily, or even just like a little bit more
(27:43):
of an attempt to discuss it with Emily or to
figure it out before diving headfirst into scandal and girl
Code and like friendship issues.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
As a viewer, I think with Chemistry it is also
hard to get into it when you've already seen him
develop that arc with someone else who's a main character.
I draw comparison to Gossip Girl because I used to
find it really difficult how everyone would just swap within
the friendship circle. The Dan Nate, Serena Blair of it
all really got to me, and I think, I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Just where you loved that.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, like really, But I do think there was more
time given to it on that show.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
That's the thing. There's so much emotional residue there with
Alfie and Emily. I don't even feel like there was
proper closure. She had tears in her eyes when she
found out he had a new girlfriend. Towards the end
of last season, so I just don't think there was
enough time. And much like Gossip Girl, this show, no
one dates outside the circle. Everyone has to just couple
swapping in the circle.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
It's a very incestuous friendship group.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
You're in Europe, there's other men, get on hinge Emily
and Mindy and everyone.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
The time thing is important when it comes to Gossip Girl.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
I also think all those pairings, when you really think
about it, they had chemistry.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
And they had established dynamics.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Two yeah, yeah, even Dan and Blair, which really came
out of left field.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I hate that storyline.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
A line they had common interests, even though it wasn't
really explored earlier on. Once they were put together, it
kind of made sense. I wasn't necessarily rooting for them
to be together in the end, but I think that
little chapter was a lot of fun. I enjoyed watching them,
and you really felt the chemistry between these two people,
which personally is what I feel is lacking between Mindy
and Alfie.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
All Right, we spent a lot of time talking about
the other characters in this show, but after the break,
it's time to get back to our main girl, Emily
Cooper and what she's been up to this season. Okay,
so Emily has been on quite the journey in these
first four episodes, a lot has happened, and I think
we've seen a lot of character development in her go
through different things. She seems like a different Emily to
(29:35):
the flippant, carefree Emily of the past who run through
the world in quite.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
A clueless fashion.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Tells. What do you think about Emily's arc this season
so far?
Speaker 4 (29:44):
They really humanize Emily this season. I think we finally
get some insight into why.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
She is the way she is.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
She's like a perfectionist, She's very ambitious, she has like
an inability to really switch off from work, and she
talks a little bit about her family and her parents,
feeling like good grades and a good job is really
what defines being successful and really informs her sense of self.
I think this is really the first first time we've
gotten a glimpse into her life really outside of Paris
(30:14):
and her new experiences and why she is the way
she is. There's one scene where Luke really calls out
Emily for having intimacy issues. He talks about how like
her crazy bolt outfits are a way for her to
avoid being vulnerable, which I think is true and one
of the first times we've seen someone kind.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
Of call her out for that. And as the scenes
that have gone on, the show really has to evolve.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
We first saw a little bit of that last season
when after she broke up with Gabrielle, she goes back
to Paris bumps into Alfie. She's very emotionally vulnerable. In
that scene, he mentions his new girlfriend who is about
to meet, and she really breaks down crying, and I
remember watching that scene feeling like that was one of
the first moments where we really saw Emily's like true
(30:56):
emotions and her having a really vulnerable moment. And for
me personally, I've found it a little bit difficult to
connect to Emily in the earlier seasons, maybe because she
is so shiny and polished and at a distance, we
never really see her sweat. Yeah, she's always got it together,
even when she's stressed. It's more like a comedic, humorous
moment than it is something where you're really trying to
(31:18):
feel for her. And now that they've established just like
high concept premise, I think now they're trying to really
deepen the relationship the audience has with this character because
I do foresee having many more seasons where the stakes
are just a little bit higher.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
Now.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
It is really interesting what you said as well about
her big bold outfits being a bit of a front
for not showing her real self and that wall between
her and the outside world. And for me, that really
draws a parallel to the first episode in Nobody Wants This,
where Joanne goes into a party, and that is something
that Noah says to her, like, you have this folk
(31:53):
a coat and it's sort of like you want to
walk in and sort of have everyone's eyes beyond you.
But at the same time, that's not your real self.
It's a front for the public facing version of you.
We also did Nobody Wants This on Watch Party because
so go back and listen to that. But I think
Emily's similar in that way, where it is this huge
front and it's this designer, big bold energy that she
(32:13):
puts out there that maybe isn't her real self. Yeah.
Another notable difference for Emily this season is a missing
someone who likes to pop up pretty often that throughout
the rest of the seasons, but that we haven't seen
that much so far in the first four episodes. And
that is one. Chef Gabrielle, What do you think about that,
Tina one?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
He looks so good, love his haircut. Thank you so
much to whoever made him do that.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Love Gabrielle.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
But yes, so this season he does sort of follow
Emily to Rome as we thought he might, and it's
actually a really great introductory shot, like she's leaving her
office with Marcello and then.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
He's like behind Joe Goldberg.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
The framing of the shot, I was like, that's nice,
they're kissing.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
It's just like a man there. Why would he be there?
But like it was a beautiful shot. It showed him.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
He's showed all the spectrum of human emotion across his
face of like seeing her feeling heartbroken that she's with someone.
But this time he makes the decision not to engage
and not to go after her and make his presence
known and interrupt her happiness. Which is something that we
spoke about in our first episode about how some people
feel about Gabrielle is that he's constantly showing up and
like ruining life for Emily. It's not how I feel
(33:26):
about him, but I understand the critiques. What I did
love was that Sylvia was the one who saw him
and like took him out to lunch and like one
reinvigorated his love of food. So that was nice little
food montage. We love that he's going to take that
back with him to Paris. But more than that, she
kind of spoke to him about Emily and Marcello, and
I think it was really lovely. She was like, she's
got life to live. Like they had this really great
(33:47):
conversation about like, you know, I know that you love Emily,
but like she has to get out there, she has
to date just to live a life, and then she's
maybe going to be the right girl for you, and
we'll see how that pans out. And he actually took
that advice on board and like went away very much
so because we just didn't hear him after that, and
he's been a silent character this season. But I do
feel to an extent that that is about making sure
that the audience is time to fall in love with
(34:09):
him again and miss him. It's that whole thing absence
makes the heart grow fonder. They're taking him away from
us so that we have the time to see him
and also see him grow up. Right, that's another critique
that there's been of him, is that his behavior has
been quite immature. Him knowing when to walk away, knowing
when not to bother her or chase after her when
she's happy, and not destroy her happiness. It shows growth
(34:29):
on his part, and now it gives us a chance
to miss him.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
As a viewer, I did feel that need to miss him.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
He's too around. I might say he's too visible presents,
but not emotionally.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
No. I kind of hope moving forward as well in
the later episodes, I hope he's scarce first of all, so.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
We have times to miss him. Yeah, but I hope
we see him do his own thing.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Yeah. I think up until this point, Gabrielle has sort
of been just existing in the realm of that love triangle. Yeah,
it just like a plot point in my opinion, where
he's just around in order to facilitate the romance and
the show. Where I feel like we would love him
more if we see him do his own thing, have
a little bit of growth, figure himself out before him,
and kind of meet again and come back together.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
So true, because especially like Emily's got her career, Mindy's
always singing, like everyone's always doing something we're really on
people's careers, and I know that he had his whole
Michelin star or deal, but he's also just been like
so unhappy with his restaurant, so like, it'd be nice
to see a bit of change there.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I agree, And at the end of episode four, we
basically see that Emily's career arc in Rome has somewhat imploded.
She's done this ad campaign for Moratory, which has led
to Solitano being this sweet little local town now becoming
a tourist hot spot. Everyone's mad at her. They've dropped
Agents Gratto as their pr representative, and basically it's all
(35:46):
blown up. Her chance at running the Italian office is dashed.
We have this very cute line from Sylvie being like,
I need my Emily in Paris at the end. I mean,
I have convoluted feelings about putting the title of a
show into a line of dialogue in the script, but
I see it for Emily in Paris.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
I understand why they did it.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I don't know if you guys agree with this, but
from my perspective as a viewer, I do think many
people are going to think this row chapter was too condensed.
We've moved the whole show to Rome new career. It's
meant to be this new opportunity that Darren Starr kind
of talked about a lot for Emily as this big
character development arc in season five, and it's now already
(36:24):
over four episodes in. For me, Rome had to be
a longer chapter. We needed to see her make a
local friend, We needed to see her explore the city
a little bit more. And for me, this was too rushed.
What did you guys think about that?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I do think it was rushed. I was left feeling
a little bit like, what was this for? Who was
this for?
Speaker 3 (36:40):
I liked the concept of her going to Rome. I
liked them doing something different. It introduced us to other
people and other places, but also not really other people.
It was just the entire team from Rome and a
few marketing people who they met with who went very nice.
Shout out to the lady from Fendy. But I do
think that this is a problem of our modern times
and our short seasons, right, Like, this is a ten
episode season and I know the episodes are a little
(37:02):
bit longer, but often shows used to be like eighteen
twenty episodes. That was what Sex and the City was
for the most part, with the exception of season five.
So like when you do lessen the amount of episodes,
you lessen the amount of time that you have to
play with the storyline. And I also think they were
probably highly aware of the fact that this is Emily
in Paris, and people like Paris and like the dynamic,
and there was only so long that they could get
(37:22):
away with like Alphie, we need you in Rome for
this legal contract, Mindy, please come see in Rome. And
maybe they didn't want to like split cities, but I
actually almost think that would have been better if we
had a bit of like coverage of what was going
on in Paris and coverage of what was going on
in Rome, rather than trying to shove it all into
just four episodes in Italy.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (37:40):
I agree it went very quickly, but I couldn't be
happier that we're going back to Paris.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
The little Marcello chapter.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
I I'm not a fan of him, obviously, And the
feeling I got when they were in Rome was that
it was very temporary, Like you were saying, Tina, how
we're not really establishing her with any new important.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
Characters in Rome.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
So it never felt like this was going to be
home based or somewhere that she was going to spend
a lot of her time.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
So for me, it felt like short and sweet. I'm
happy with that. Back to Paris, back to business.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
You know. I also love like the vibe of obviously
that's the whole reason we kind of fell in love
with this show. But I also just love like when yes,
she's got romantic drama or work drama, but I love
the consistency of when she is in Paris and it
just gets to feel like an office or friendship or
romantic drama and not also like now I'm in a
new place and this is happening and Marcello is here, Like,
you know, I just don't want him there, first of all,
(38:29):
and second of all, I just want to be back
in Paris.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
So I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, as I view, it kind of feels like we're
coming home.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Yeah, I to say that.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, maybe that was also part of it.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Maybe they were like, Okay, everyone's gotten too used to Paris,
we need to get them back in love with it.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
I felt unsettled with her in Rome and I was like,
I just want her to go get a croissant, not
that she really got that many croissants, but I wanted
to be able to exactly.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
I felt like almost like a device for us to
feel like, Yep, she's much more proisy. And now she's
like like, yeah, she's assimilated into life in Paris. She
has her friendship group there, she's she's really got a
life there and making us feel like this is the
journey she's been on from season one.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
Now in season five, she's home.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
You know, do you guys have any thoughts on where
things may go now that she's in Paris.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I don't want to see Marcello again, but I'm sure
I will.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
He'll pop up, He'll find me back.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I'd really love to see Mindy and Alphie get together
in a healthy way. I don't think that that's going
to happen either. I'd like to see some healthy friendship communication,
but I don't think we'll get that. What I do
think we'll get is this consistency of Gabrielle being out
of our lives, and I do love that only for
his growth. We know I'm teeing Gabrielle.
Speaker 5 (39:31):
I agree. I think we won't see a lot of Gabrielle,
which I love.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
I're already starting to miss him a little bit, you know,
and I famously despise that.
Speaker 5 (39:38):
Man, it's worked on you. Yeah, it's worked. You know,
something's working. I believe we're going.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
To see a bit of back and forth with Alfie
and MINDI there was inevitably going to be a fall
up between her and Emily, which will be huge, and
I don't know that I love that, because Mindy and
Emily have really been this like grounding force in the
show and a real like safe haven where while there's
all this chaos going around work chaos, chaos with boyfriends,
new men, her and Mindy.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Have always been good, you know.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
But I do think we're going to see some sort
of a friendship fallout and.
Speaker 5 (40:09):
Hopefully see Mindy and Alphae break up. That's my take.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
I don't love them together, so yeah, hopefully by the
end season they're not together.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
It was probably needed for Mindy and Emily to have
this cross roads in their friendship because I feel like
they haven't had a huge testing point as of yet.
My hope is that Emily has a big next career step,
because I was really feeling from her in these first
four episodes that she's ready for that next step. She
was so excited to run the Roman office without Sylvie
hovering over her and without being monitored and supervised, and
(40:39):
it just felt like this push and pull. She was
really ready for that step, but it wasn't being given
to her next. So my hope for her is that
something big happens in her career, she gets a little
bit more independence. I don't know if that will be
within agents Grotto or she'll end up starting her own thing.
I don't know what the working visa situation is like
over there, but that is my wish for Emily Cooper.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
And I'm sure Mindy will sing again.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Undoubtedly. Thank you so much for joining us today to
deep dive into the first four episodes of the new
season of Emily in Paris on Netflix. We'll be back
in your feed very soon to unpack the rest of
the seas. In our next pod drop, we'll be covering
episodes five to eight, and the one after that will
cover the last two episodes of the season. So make
sure you're following the watch Party feed wherever you get
(41:20):
your podcasts so you don't miss a beat. And if
you're loving the pod, leave us a rating and review.
Watch Party is produced by myself, Manitiurus Warren and Georgie Page,
with audio production by Scott Stronik and video production by
Michael Kein Bye Bye Bye
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders
that this podcast is recorded on cant help you can't
help you.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
From Mamma Mia. Welcome to The Spills watch Party, where
we unpack the biggest shows that the entire world is
talking about. My name is mansiaus Warren. I'm the executive
producer of Mamma MIA's entertainment podcast, The Spill, as well
as this podcast watch party, and today we are talking
about one of my absolute favorite shows of all time,
Emily in Paris, and I'm joined by two fellow super
(00:46):
fans who love Emily as much as I do.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I am Tina Burke. I am Mama MIA's pop culture
and social editor. I am obsessed with all things entertainment
and Hollywood, and I love a girl called Emily Cooper
and anything made by Darren Starr.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So I'm very excited to be here.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
And I'm Chelsea, who are mom and MIA's entertainment producer,
And like Tina, i am a fiend for anything pop
culture related, but I'm also a fashion girly and I'm
a frequent co host on the Nothing to Wear podcast
and Emily Mars is really my two worlds colliding, so
it's one of my favorite shows.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So the three of us are epic fangirls of this
show and we have been spending our time binging this
season so we can get all across it to bring
you our thoughts, feelings and deep dives. And in this episode,
we are going to be covering everything that happens in
the first four episodes, so there will be spoilers if
you haven't watched the first four, but we won't go
beyond that, so you're totally safe if you're only up
to ep four. So we're going to dive into everything
(01:36):
from Emily's Italian adventure and how really different it feels
to her og Paris life, as well as some very
controversial relationships that are definitely crossing lines this season. So
we sort of start this season off seeing her in Rome.
(01:58):
She's starting her life there, she's trying to get agent
Scratcho's Italian leg off the ground, and one thing that
really stood out to me is that in season one,
she's obviously living that expat life as an American in Paris,
and we see all these cult comparisons drawn between American
culture and French culture, and now we sort of have
this third element into the mix. So it's the Italians
via the French. The Americans, her French colleagues who come
(02:20):
over have a lot to say about the Italians. Did
that really stand out to you guys in terms of
I felt this real rivalry between the French and the
Italians in these first few episodes.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I mean, I was expecting it going in, considering there
was like geopolitical discourse about like Emily in Paris moving
to Rome, it was a very big deal. But yeah,
there was definitely like a vibe shift because where in
Paris everything was like that little bit more like chic
and elevated and exclusionary.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
In Italy, it had its own thing going on.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
I also think the fish out of Water and like
cultural clash is part of the reason we love the show,
and it's like a real pillar of the show, and
a lot of the humor and the conflict that we
see really derived from that Emily's culture clash in Paris,
and I think we needed a new chapter, a new place,
a new experience, and that was Rome.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I agree. I think it really took it back to
that season one vibe in that way of like everything's new.
She didn't know anything, shen. I mean, not that she
knows much French, but she knows absolutely no Italian. Yeah,
so it really reminded me of the lens through which
we saw France in season one, and there were just
a bunch of times where that came up, and it
was really stark in terms of how the French few
Italians in the workplace. And one of the first times
(03:26):
was when Emily was with Marchello's family and she's trying
to really push discussing business ideas because obviously they acquired
the Moratory account and she's in the kitchen, Marchello's mum
is making risotto, and she just goes, we don't discuss
business at dinner, and it's a full put down of like,
And I think that's really evident in terms of how
different Americans are to Europeans, and something that I think
(03:48):
Emily has also encountered in France because they just don't
mix business and pleasure as much as Americans do in
that kind of setting. Can I do.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Anything to help, Oh, nothing left to do now, but sir.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
It smells delicious, Antonia.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Can I talk to you about a few ideas that
I have not well, I'm.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
Making risotto, no problem, I'll talk to your dinner.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Oh we don't discuss business at dinner another time, relax enjoy.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
She kind of keeps learning these lessons over the time
that she's in Italy, and it's like she just spent
all that time learning how to do it in Paris,
and now they're like, here's a new challenge. She learns
all of these things you don't discuss at dinner. Yes,
can me No, Like she kind of has that moment
of realization where she's like, I'm not working in Rome.
I've lost my touch. I don't know what I'm doing.
And it's because she doesn't know how business works here.
She's not used to it.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
But she honestly reads some xpat guys. Because I looked
this up and it was telling me all these things.
It was like, so, you know, when you're doing business
in Italy, it's good to stay on non commercial topics
in an eating setting, and non commercial.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Topics in marketing or just while you're eating.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well, I think it's your boyfriend's mom.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Okay, good.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I think it's particularly hard for Emily though, because she
we know notoriously she mixes business and pleasure, so how
do you suffer it the two?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
And she's been like waiting for this meeting for ages
and suddenly they have the meeting and it's like, actually,
you can't talk about the meeting.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Now because we're serving food. Sorry, and we ruined your shoes.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, that trouble hunting thing was ridiculous. Like what you
mentioned there about how Emily has gotten used to the
fact that Italians start things off with a yes and
it's a little bit noncommittal. I thought that scene was
really interesting when she's unpacking that with her French colleagues
and they're like, oh, in France, we start a conversation
with a no, because then you can only like you're
not committed to anything, whereas in Italy they start everything
(05:33):
with see or yes in a business setting. And I
was reading up a little bit on that, and apparently
that is the case, that it's a very noncommittal yes
in a business sense. It's sort of an umbrella yes
and we'll see where we go from here. Well that went, well, Nope,
it didn't, she said. See. I mean sure it wasn't
an idea for Paris.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
When Italians say yes, they don't always mean it.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
They valuablitness.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
They don't want to offend, so they say yes even
if they don't agree.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Ah, Like how the French always start everything with a no.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
No, we don't well at least answering no. Give you
the option of the letter saying yes.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
You start with yes, then you're stuck not either, they're.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Just thinking back later.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Do you think FRIENDY will ever give us another chance?
Speaker 5 (06:14):
That's a no.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
It's interesting how across cultures there are those little nuances
that you really would only know once you've lived there
and understand the contacts or reminds you of Like in
Australia when we say like yeah na.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Yeah, yeah, we all know what that means.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Yeah, but I can imagine for a foreigner you would
have no idea what those little intricacies are.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
When I moved here from Singapore almost ten years ago,
I was very confused by the yenna nah yeah culture,
and I was just told the second one is.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
There, the one you pay attention. That's what you go with, Yeah,
n as I know nah yeah is a yes.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, it makes so much sense. Yeah, that's good advice.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
The second one you pay attention to. Emily needed something
like that. You're right, she needed like a little guide book. Yeah,
business for Americans in Italy. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
I thought.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Another thing that was interesting is we see Princess Jane,
the new character, who is what an addition, I know,
Sylvie's friend who is married into royalty, lives in Rome.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Broke to go on tiptop now to get money. Yeah,
and there was an interesting scene where she met Sylvie
and Sylvie's little affair man and he pretended to the crowns.
It's like the man that she married wasn't even considered
really royal. But that's key, someone who had claimed he
was but didn't have a current claim to the title.
So it's like that's why they're broke and living in
a castle that they rent out as an airbab. But
(07:32):
that was played by Mini Driver obviously, and she was
so much fun in the role.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
She is a heap of fun. I guess the same
way some men lie about their heights, some lie about
their royal status.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Some lie about their royal status.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yes, she was hoodwinked, but she added so much to
the Italian journey, especially for their careers this season with
the booking and the fee is what killed me. Every
time that she offered to do something.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, yeah, like I can send you up with FEddi
for a fee.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I guess that is maybe how consulting were I don't know,
but I don't know how much she was bringing to
the company. She also said something interesting about her time
in Italy. She said, no one spoke to me in
three years, and I'm royalty. And I did read a
little bit about how social life in Rome. It does
seem on the surface very friendly, and you know, if
you're in a bar or a cafe, people do tend
to talk to you. But I was having a little
(08:14):
read on like expat experiences in Rome, and it is
apparently quite difficult to break into the social fabric. It
has that almost small towny feel, but in a big
city where once you're not in the fold and you
come in as a foreigner, it's quite difficult to work
your way in and almost impossible, some people have said,
to actually break into a fold that isn't just other expats.
So I thought her saying that was a little bit
(08:34):
of a reflection on that.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
That's so interesting because Emily kind of obviously when she
moved to Paris, we saw her trying and to establish
all kinds of connections. But she wasn't trying to in
Rome with the exception of business, so like we only
saw it through the work lens. She wasn't trying to
make friends because she has her friends and she just
ships them over.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
To Rome with her.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
She had a boyfriend, like she was fine. She shipped
her whole company over with her. So like the only
way we were able to explore that dynamic was through
her career. So it was really interesting that our princess
played by Mini Driver was offering that lens of like
it's really exclusive. You need someone on the inside to
help you. That would be so stressful. Felt like I
was at Agent's grotto, Like I felt like I was
(09:12):
there trying to start at myself.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I was really stressed.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I know, I was, Like, guys, there wasn't a lot
of planning in this whole movie. You just sort of
got an office.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Funny as well, like them moving everything over and no
one is left in the Paris.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
They're just on zoom.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I know, especially for someone like Sylvie, I know that
she's a bit I'm going for a smoke in the
middle of the day. It's the French way, but she's also.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So business minded and has such a stake and a
love in her own business. It was just so strange
to see her be like, and now I'm in Rome,
and I guess no one's in Paris other than Genevieve.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, well, she was very interested in staying in Rome
due to her Italian lover, but we can get.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
To that later.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Gian Carlo I thought one other thing that was interesting
was Marcello at the party in the mansion, where he
decides to pretty much flirt with every x he's ever had,
it seems, in these few episodes in front of his
new girlfriend. And he explained that away as that's how
Italians talk. We're just very expressive. We use our hands
a lot, which obviously Italians are renowned worldwide for being
(10:09):
very expressive, very passionate when they're speaking. I still don't
think you need to quite me quite that passionate when
you're speaking to your ex girlfriends.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
But what do you guys think.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
The fact that we're talking about multiple ex girlfriends as
like the real red flag. I can like understand in
some cultures there's like a physicality where there's like an
unspoken language. Italian culture being one of those well, yeah,
they are very expressive.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
It's very physical.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
But Emily, in a short period in a week, having
to encounter two exes, I know, it's bizarre.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
That is a red flag.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I don't know that man just gave me the ick
all season long, Like in these episodes, he was just
he didn't seem to understand much of what she was
doing with him, like as in, like they go truffle hunting,
he doesn't warn her about the shoes, they go hang
out with all his exes. He doesn't say anything till
she feels noticeably uncomfortable and tries to leave. He just
was giving me the ick in not understanding like that
he was in a relationship with somebody who's kind of
(10:57):
a vibe of that whole Castle scene.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Also, his apology didn't really land because I'll pick you
up tomorrow, don't worry. And then she's like, I'm sorry, yeah, projected,
I overreacted. I'm like, nah, he was.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Like really flirting with his exod Yeah, yeah, I think
you're allowed to.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, And that's the current thing that we picked up
on that as being something she did a bit this season,
And I wonder what the reasoning was because it felt
strange that she apologized in that instance. It's like, I
don't really think you did anything wrong, but it's like
they're trying to.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Make her character like that bit more like likable. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So one of the brands that they acquire during their
time in Italy is called Intimacy. It's a lingerie brand,
and this spark's a whole thing for Emily because she's
trying to figure out how to sell lingerie agents. Gratto's
whole thing is we want to prove the French can
sell sex better than the Italians. This is such a
funny little arc because Emily always sort of struggles with
those things that are more on the sexy side, to
deal with intimacy, and I feel like it's a real
(11:48):
commentary from the Europeans that, you know, Americans are a
little bit more reserved because Europe's just known for being
a bit more out there and like embracing all of
that kind of stuff. And she definitely gets that feedback
from Luke and Julia that they obviously think she's a
bit of a quote unquote prude. We saw last season
when Gabrielle wanted to have sex on the roof and
she had a bit of a freak out. She was like,
I just want to be an event. I really see
(12:10):
Emily struggle with coming up with the tagline there, whether
you know, to go full out or be a little
bit more reserved in how she markets it. What did
you guys think of her approach to selling intimacy.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, I think obviously she was called out for having
intimacy issues by her coworkers and has been called a
prune and everything, so I think she tried to go
the opposite direction and like really channeled like everything she's
learned in France about being sexy. She pitched something that
just wasn't seen as right for the actual Italian audience
versus like what she thought they would want, Like she
wanted to be like it's like better than naked, like
(12:41):
as in the sexiest you can look as wearing lingerie
and like the princess was in the meeting with her
and she's like, it's just a bit confusing, Sweedie, like
no one understands that, and she kind of learned that actually,
according to intimacy, Italians more interested in like the connection
and the meaning, so she had to go away and
find that again. So I feel like she's learned a
lot about her, you know, Italian culture in her very
short time in Rome.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Now, while we're on the topic of sort of clothes
and garments and that kind of area, Chelse, you're a
real fashion girlie, and the fashion this season has been
a little bit different. Obviously, she's in a different place,
the setting is different. A lot of it's giving Audrey
Hepburn Roman holiday callbacks. What can you tell us about
her Roman edition of fashion?
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I mean, with a show like this where the fashion
is almost like a character in itself, so pivotal to
the show every season, I think we've seen a bit
of an evolution this season. Yes, we lean very heavily
into Italian fashion, and the costume designer, Marilyn Fittucci, has
said that they're leaning into like glamorous black and white
Italian movies. They've taken a lot of inspo from like
(13:39):
old Hollywood stars, so like Sophia Loren, Silvana Mangano, Coudia Cardinali,
and like all these icons who have like real style
and a lot of personality. We see Emily even all
the promotional picks and in the first few episodes in
Rome in a lot of polka dots, which feels very
very Italian, and even in the press tour outfits, we
know that, especially Lily Collins, being like the fashion icon
(13:59):
that she is, always slays a red carpet. But they
recently did like a photo call in Venice, so all
three ladies were wearing Italian designers Philippine Leroy, Bellu in Ferragamo,
Lily Collins and Scaparelli.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
She loves that brand.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
It's an Italian founded French oak couture house, Ashley Park.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
And Antonio Grimaldi.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
They're really leaning into Italian fashion brands this season, both
in the show and in real life. And yeah, but
shows like this, I find it always really interesting that
the fashion really reflects where Emily is, what state of
mind she's in, where she is, and the culture she's
kind of trying to assimilate into.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Did you have a favorite look of the first few episodes?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Oh, when they go to the Fendi shop, she's wearing
this like jumpsuit.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
It's like silky and it's like geometric tiles or like
something's going on.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
It's like a kind of like scarf print.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yes, yes, there's a real like interesting pattern on it. It
feels it's very Italian and.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Spirit and she's so depressed, but she looks so good.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah, She's like sitting there like she's like, I haven't slept,
and she's got big sunglasses on and she's like, I
think my boyfriend's going to break up.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
He's saying you to buy a Fendi bag and you
look great.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
That might be the only moment in the first few
episodes where I'm like, Okay, march alone, all right.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Himself with that one. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
We also see in that scene a little musical drop
in of this song which will be very familiar to
Sex and the City fans. What that is got to
(15:45):
be real by Cheryl Lynn, And it's a very famous
song from Sex and the City, famous for you played
in season four when Carrie Bradshaw has her iconic runway
full and we see it here where Emily is taken
by Marcello to go and get a Fendy bag, which
is very Sex in the City coded, and I loved
that little Darren Starr callback there. So obviously we've only
seen up till episode four, and at the end of
(16:05):
episode four it's revealed that they're going back to Paris.
Do you think that is something that will be reflected
in the fashion.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
One hundred percent. The costume designers have been very open
about the fact that where Emily is reflects in what
she wears. Season one and two, we saw so many
bold colors. We saw a lot of bucket hats, random prints.
I think episode one, when she shows up at Jean Scratto,
she's literally wearing like a Paris Eiffel power printed shirt.
It's really bold, it's a little bit obnoxious. And as
(16:32):
the seasons have progressed and she's become more Prisian, more French,
her style has reflected that and become a little bit
more understated, a little bit more luxurious.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I guess we have seen broth from Emily because she
didn't show up in a T shirt with the coliseum
on it or something.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
That's progress.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So after the break, we are going to get stuck
into what I would say is the juiciest plot line
that we were all kind of waiting for this season,
and I'm pretty sure most people feel the same. So
we're going to be unpacking that next Okay, so we
absolutely have to talk about the relationship that we saw
teased in the trailer and that we've now seen come
to fruition and I don't know how to feel about it,
(17:08):
which is Mindy and Alfie Chelsea, what can you tell
us about what we've seen so far?
Speaker 5 (17:13):
So we saw this coming.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
It was in the trailer Emily's off to Rome, which
leaves Mindy and Alfie in Paris alone, meeting up as friends.
They get dinner, sparks start flying, they're starting to flirt.
It's kind of entering that territory of maybe something romantic,
and it freaks Mindy out a little bit. She's like, okay,
like what is this? She goes off to Rome to
(17:36):
visit Emily and she's kind of texting with Alfie, and conveniently,
Alfie also ends up in.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Rome for work as it is in this show.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
And she gets recruited for this strange Italian dance competition
show and she needs help rehearsing, so why not call Alfi.
They have a little in the same hotel, saying at
the same hotel.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
And weirdly, his mother apparently made him take ballroom dancing
lessons growing up, so they have.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
A little dance.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Things are kind of heating up. They share a kiss
and then things kind of snow from there where they're
kind of intimate with each other, but they're hiding this
from Emily the entire time.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
And this is a real look at girl code, isn't it.
And whether or not Mindy has crossed the line here,
because I don't know about you, guys, but I think
she was one hundred percent across the line. I know
she did initially in one of the first episodes of
the season try and sort of float with Emily like, oh,
you don't steal her feelings for Alphie, do you? And
Emily was like, nah, but that's a little bit different.
(18:36):
You're not giving context to why I ask in that question.
If I suddenly asked one of you guys, oh, do
you still have feelings for next You'd probably be like no,
and they'd be like, well, I'm.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
In love with him, or I'm not in love but
i'm dating him.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
We may feel a little bit differently. I did a
bit of a deep dive into girl Code because I
wanted to clarify for myself before we weigh in on
whether or not she did break girl code what exactly
girl code is. And what I found was that psychologists
talk about unspoken social contracts, rules that we don't write down,
but we expect people close to us to honor and
girl code is basically that. A lot of it's rooted
(19:07):
in attachment theory because a lot of people see close
female friendships as sort of emotional safe havens in the
chaos of life. And one thing I think that really
defines whether or not you have broken girl code is
what level of friendship you are at with that person.
And with Mindy and Emily, she is her ride or
die in Paris. This is not a casual friend. This
is someone she met on a park bench but turned
(19:29):
into a lifelong bestie. They live together. She's been there
through the chaos, the heartbreak, the career highs and lows.
I think the level of friendship really matters here, which
is why I strongly feel like she has crossed the line.
Where do you guys sit with that?
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Yeah, she crossed the line.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
For me.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
I think starting a relationship with Alphie is one thing,
but the complete lack of communication and the lying is
where you get me. Do I think that you could
date a friend's X. I wouldn't do it, but I
think it depends on how that friend feels about that
relationship at that time and whether they care or not,
and Mindy never really had that conversation with Emily and
they proceed to lie for several episodes, which I.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Think is the problem.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Completely agree with you, Chelsea. I think that's gonna be
the biggest question on everyone's lips is does this action
potentially break girl code? I had the chance to sit
down with Lily Collins and Ashley Park to talk about
season five of Emily in Paris, which was obviously so
exciting and there were so many things that we wanted
to talk to them about, but the biggest one, of course,
had to be does this action break the girl code?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
And here's what they had to say about that.
Speaker 6 (20:31):
Well, I think, you know, there's a scene where Mindy
asks Emily, like, you're cool. You guys are all okay, right,
and it's like Emily genuinely is okay. It's like at
this point Alphie is less of an ex and more
of a coworker friend, like it's not an immediate X,
and they have a respect for each other in a
work in the workplace now, and Emily is like, cool,
(20:53):
They're cool.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
And so I think.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
It's all about the communication. Again, no spoilers, but their
communication between Mindy and Emily is what ultimately is the
most hurtful, not what happens. And so I think everyone's
going to have different boundary in their relationships with their friends.
But I think what's key is making sure that you
speak with honesty, with truth, with empathy, and with love
(21:19):
and the communication.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
Yeah, And I think both of these girls in particular
have been having different kinds of identity crisis as we've
seen in five seasons. The one thing that has been
steadfast is that they're each other safe place.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
And they're each other's kind of home.
Speaker 7 (21:31):
And I think that that's, you know, that's very It
shakes them to the core when they're not able to
be that for each other. And I actually, you know,
what I'll say in Standby is that I think the
what's most realistic and genuine is not being perfect.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Right.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
It's something that we've talked about that we as women
and also in terms of female friendships, like to have
that pressure of being perfect or else it's not a
good thing, and not a great thing is.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Not great.
Speaker 7 (21:59):
So I think that it's really it to bring that
kind of realistic texture of like overcoming something together when
you felt like you had to be a part I
think is kind of I'm really proud of.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
So I think obviously they gave like a really nuanced
answer to that question. It's kind of a two parter
answer as well, which touches on I think a lot
of the feelings that all three of us really took
away from watching these scenes, but in particular the scenes
of the initial kiss and everything. What Lily has described
is what you touched on, Chelsea, which is like, it's
not necessarily that Emily would still have feelings for Alphie.
(22:30):
It's not necessarily that she would have seen the idea
of them as a couple of something that would upset her.
But it's more about the fact that this has now
happened in secret, and any continuation of a lie, or
of miscommunication or of like not being super clear with
each other on where it's going, that would be the
problem in the friendship, and that's going to be the
thing that brings attension. But I really loved what Ashley
had to say about MINDI, which is like, we're talking
(22:51):
about this in terms of the characters, right, Like we're saying,
as a friend, would it break girl code?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
As a friend, would you be upset if someone did this?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And will obviously inevitably see that play out in the
coming episodes, but it's also really good to include these
kinds of mistakes that women make sometimes in their lives.
And that's the really interesting thing that Ashley touched on,
and it's a big conversation that has happened previously around
like Carrie Bradshaw, or like Miranda and Samantha and the
mistakes that they make in Sex in the City and
how women can be unlikable sometimes women can make mistakes sometimes,
(23:21):
and so it's a bit of a two parter, which
is really interesting. What do you think of that.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
I also love.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
What Ashley said about seeing imperfect women on screen and
how that's really important. My only qualm with that is
I would love to see a little bit more accountability
from Mindy. I agree women can be imperfect. I'm a
staunch supporter of Emily, Carrie, Miranda, Samantha, all these women
who are imperfect, and as much as the public love
to criticize these women, I think it's so important to
(23:46):
see different kinds of women who make mistakes and friendships
that kind of break apart and how they come back together.
But we haven't yet seen how this is going to
play out between Emily and Mindy. But what was liking
for me in those early days of her getting together
with ALPHI is her not having a second thought about
how Emily would feel about this and kind of continuing
this affair behind her back.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I think it was also interesting what they said. It
sort of echoes what we were talking about earlier. That
girl who and female friendships is considered a very safe
space for a lot of people, and that is your
little safe corner in the chaos of the world, and
that is really what has rocked Emily to her core,
is that that little safe corner has now been imploded
with uncertainty and something that you didn't see coming. So
(24:27):
I do agree that probably the issue wasn't the act itself,
but the lack of communication and I guess feeling like
you've been blindsided. There's very few things in life probably
where if you were just sat down and it was
explained to you and the feelings were all talked out,
that you would be so shaken by It often is
about the lack of transparency or the fact that something
(24:47):
hasn't been warned or flagged with you beforehand, especially when
it was something where there is a lot of emotional
residue there.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, obviously we will see how this all plays out,
but obviously there would be There are many women in
the real world who will have experienced this in their friendships,
and so it's great to show the different perspectives on
screen and for us to get to explore this dynamic.
I have been on the record saying I didn't want
this to be how this relationship was explored, and I
stand by that. I would have liked for the Alphi
(25:14):
and Mindy thing to come about in a different way.
And that's just for me and how I choose to
enjoy this show and like what I want from it.
I still love all of these characters and I'm excited
to see what happens and where it goes. But I
do agree with you, Chelsea that I think maybe we
needed a bit more time to delve into this if
we wanted to go this route of showing this storyline,
And because the episodes, like because there's not that many
of them, it just felt like we really rushed into
(25:35):
this thing and it's got a bit more tension and
not enough time to show the thinking of what's going
on with Mindy, and maybe the attention and detail and
care that could have been given to it. If we're
going to go into something that could maybe ruin a
friendship and how that would play out.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Yeah, I completely agree. I'm not a huge fan of
the word they've done.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
It, but I'm hoping that Emily and Mindy will come
out of the stronger and that you know, by the
end of the season, we'll see the dynamic duo back
together and hopefully having some difficult conversations.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
And on that Argentine tango, because I was a really
big fan of that sort of arc. Seeing Mindy have
to learn this dance, I had a bit of a
rogue thought as to whether it's a metaphor. Stay with me.
Here them doing the Argentine Tango in private. It's this
sort of sexy secret when he picks her up, it
works so well, and then when that's taken public on
the dance competition stage, she falls flat on her face.
(26:25):
Is that a metaphor for when this relationship comes out
comes to light and listen sings it. Yeah, and everyone
finds out that it's going to be an absolute flop
and not take off. And they maybe did quite a
literal metaphor which they like to do in Emily in
Paris of her literally crashing and falling on her face.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Let's hope maybe I took it to a different play
like that.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Why not.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I don't know if it's a controversial opinion, because famously.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Last episode I was all for this. I don't care.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
I love mixing up the different couples and seeing what happens,
and I also love those two characters individually. Yeah, I
personally wasn't really a fan of the chemistry. I felt, yeah,
casing maybe was wrong. We didn't have any build up
from the first episode. Them having dinner and the sparks
flying didn't feel organic to me.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Even the tango I.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Felt, oh to like close my eyes.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah, I was cringing so bad, which is I'm shocked
because I love these two actors. I like these two characters,
so you would think that putting them together would make sense,
and I think that's probably what the producers were thinking
when they did it.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, I think I agree with you. I was all
for this and I was really excited about it. But
the fact that it feels kind of rushed into, like
I think we could have done that first episode where
they go to dinner and she starts to realize that
there's a bit of a spark or something there. I
think we needed like a whole season's worth of build
up tension or pining or build up and actual conversations
with Emily, or even just like a little bit more
(27:43):
of an attempt to discuss it with Emily or to
figure it out before diving headfirst into scandal and girl
Code and like friendship issues.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
As a viewer, I think with Chemistry it is also
hard to get into it when you've already seen him
develop that arc with someone else who's a main character.
I draw comparison to Gossip Girl because I used to
find it really difficult how everyone would just swap within
the friendship circle. The Dan Nate, Serena Blair of it
all really got to me, and I think, I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Just where you loved that.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, like really, But I do think there was more
time given to it on that show.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
That's the thing. There's so much emotional residue there with
Alfie and Emily. I don't even feel like there was
proper closure. She had tears in her eyes when she
found out he had a new girlfriend. Towards the end
of last season, so I just don't think there was
enough time. And much like Gossip Girl, this show, no
one dates outside the circle. Everyone has to just couple
swapping in the circle.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
It's a very incestuous friendship group.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
You're in Europe, there's other men, get on hinge Emily
and Mindy and everyone.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
The time thing is important when it comes to Gossip Girl.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
I also think all those pairings, when you really think
about it, they had chemistry.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
And they had established dynamics.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Two yeah, yeah, even Dan and Blair, which really came
out of left field.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I hate that storyline.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
A line they had common interests, even though it wasn't
really explored earlier on. Once they were put together, it
kind of made sense. I wasn't necessarily rooting for them
to be together in the end, but I think that
little chapter was a lot of fun. I enjoyed watching them,
and you really felt the chemistry between these two people,
which personally is what I feel is lacking between Mindy
and Alfie.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
All Right, we spent a lot of time talking about
the other characters in this show, but after the break,
it's time to get back to our main girl, Emily
Cooper and what she's been up to this season. Okay,
so Emily has been on quite the journey in these
first four episodes, a lot has happened, and I think
we've seen a lot of character development in her go
through different things. She seems like a different Emily to
(29:35):
the flippant, carefree Emily of the past who run through
the world in quite.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
A clueless fashion.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Tells. What do you think about Emily's arc this season
so far?
Speaker 4 (29:44):
They really humanize Emily this season. I think we finally
get some insight into why.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
She is the way she is.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
She's like a perfectionist, She's very ambitious, she has like
an inability to really switch off from work, and she
talks a little bit about her family and her parents,
feeling like good grades and a good job is really
what defines being successful and really informs her sense of self.
I think this is really the first first time we've
gotten a glimpse into her life really outside of Paris
(30:14):
and her new experiences and why she is the way
she is. There's one scene where Luke really calls out
Emily for having intimacy issues. He talks about how like
her crazy bolt outfits are a way for her to
avoid being vulnerable, which I think is true and one
of the first times we've seen someone kind.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
Of call her out for that. And as the scenes
that have gone on, the show really has to evolve.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
We first saw a little bit of that last season
when after she broke up with Gabrielle, she goes back
to Paris bumps into Alfie. She's very emotionally vulnerable. In
that scene, he mentions his new girlfriend who is about
to meet, and she really breaks down crying, and I
remember watching that scene feeling like that was one of
the first moments where we really saw Emily's like true
(30:56):
emotions and her having a really vulnerable moment. And for
me personally, I've found it a little bit difficult to
connect to Emily in the earlier seasons, maybe because she
is so shiny and polished and at a distance, we
never really see her sweat. Yeah, she's always got it together,
even when she's stressed. It's more like a comedic, humorous
moment than it is something where you're really trying to
(31:18):
feel for her. And now that they've established just like
high concept premise, I think now they're trying to really
deepen the relationship the audience has with this character because
I do foresee having many more seasons where the stakes
are just a little bit higher.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
Now.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
It is really interesting what you said as well about
her big bold outfits being a bit of a front
for not showing her real self and that wall between
her and the outside world. And for me, that really
draws a parallel to the first episode in Nobody Wants This,
where Joanne goes into a party, and that is something
that Noah says to her, like, you have this folk
(31:53):
a coat and it's sort of like you want to
walk in and sort of have everyone's eyes beyond you.
But at the same time, that's not your real self.
It's a front for the public facing version of you.
We also did Nobody Wants This on Watch Party because
so go back and listen to that. But I think
Emily's similar in that way, where it is this huge
front and it's this designer, big bold energy that she
(32:13):
puts out there that maybe isn't her real self. Yeah.
Another notable difference for Emily this season is a missing
someone who likes to pop up pretty often that throughout
the rest of the seasons, but that we haven't seen
that much so far in the first four episodes. And
that is one. Chef Gabrielle, What do you think about that,
Tina one?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
He looks so good, love his haircut. Thank you so
much to whoever made him do that.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Love Gabrielle.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
But yes, so this season he does sort of follow
Emily to Rome as we thought he might, and it's
actually a really great introductory shot, like she's leaving her
office with Marcello and then.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
He's like behind Joe Goldberg.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
The framing of the shot, I was like, that's nice,
they're kissing.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
It's just like a man there. Why would he be there?
But like it was a beautiful shot. It showed him.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
He's showed all the spectrum of human emotion across his
face of like seeing her feeling heartbroken that she's with someone.
But this time he makes the decision not to engage
and not to go after her and make his presence
known and interrupt her happiness. Which is something that we
spoke about in our first episode about how some people
feel about Gabrielle is that he's constantly showing up and
like ruining life for Emily. It's not how I feel
(33:26):
about him, but I understand the critiques. What I did
love was that Sylvia was the one who saw him
and like took him out to lunch and like one
reinvigorated his love of food. So that was nice little
food montage. We love that he's going to take that
back with him to Paris. But more than that, she
kind of spoke to him about Emily and Marcello, and
I think it was really lovely. She was like, she's
got life to live. Like they had this really great
(33:47):
conversation about like, you know, I know that you love Emily,
but like she has to get out there, she has
to date just to live a life, and then she's
maybe going to be the right girl for you, and
we'll see how that pans out. And he actually took
that advice on board and like went away very much
so because we just didn't hear him after that, and
he's been a silent character this season. But I do
feel to an extent that that is about making sure
that the audience is time to fall in love with
(34:09):
him again and miss him. It's that whole thing absence
makes the heart grow fonder. They're taking him away from
us so that we have the time to see him
and also see him grow up. Right, that's another critique
that there's been of him, is that his behavior has
been quite immature. Him knowing when to walk away, knowing
when not to bother her or chase after her when
she's happy, and not destroy her happiness. It shows growth
(34:29):
on his part, and now it gives us a chance
to miss him.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
As a viewer, I did feel that need to miss him.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
He's too around. I might say he's too visible presents,
but not emotionally.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
No. I kind of hope moving forward as well in
the later episodes, I hope he's scarce first of all, so.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
We have times to miss him. Yeah, but I hope
we see him do his own thing.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Yeah. I think up until this point, Gabrielle has sort
of been just existing in the realm of that love triangle. Yeah,
it just like a plot point in my opinion, where
he's just around in order to facilitate the romance and
the show. Where I feel like we would love him
more if we see him do his own thing, have
a little bit of growth, figure himself out before him,
and kind of meet again and come back together.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
So true, because especially like Emily's got her career, Mindy's
always singing, like everyone's always doing something we're really on
people's careers, and I know that he had his whole
Michelin star or deal, but he's also just been like
so unhappy with his restaurant, so like, it'd be nice
to see a bit of change there.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I agree, And at the end of episode four, we
basically see that Emily's career arc in Rome has somewhat imploded.
She's done this ad campaign for Moratory, which has led
to Solitano being this sweet little local town now becoming
a tourist hot spot. Everyone's mad at her. They've dropped
Agents Gratto as their pr representative, and basically it's all
(35:46):
blown up. Her chance at running the Italian office is dashed.
We have this very cute line from Sylvie being like,
I need my Emily in Paris at the end. I mean,
I have convoluted feelings about putting the title of a
show into a line of dialogue in the script, but
I see it for Emily in Paris.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
I understand why they did it.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I don't know if you guys agree with this, but
from my perspective as a viewer, I do think many
people are going to think this row chapter was too condensed.
We've moved the whole show to Rome new career. It's
meant to be this new opportunity that Darren Starr kind
of talked about a lot for Emily as this big
character development arc in season five, and it's now already
(36:24):
over four episodes in. For me, Rome had to be
a longer chapter. We needed to see her make a
local friend, We needed to see her explore the city
a little bit more. And for me, this was too rushed.
What did you guys think about that?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I do think it was rushed. I was left feeling
a little bit like, what was this for? Who was
this for?
Speaker 3 (36:40):
I liked the concept of her going to Rome. I
liked them doing something different. It introduced us to other
people and other places, but also not really other people.
It was just the entire team from Rome and a
few marketing people who they met with who went very nice.
Shout out to the lady from Fendy. But I do
think that this is a problem of our modern times
and our short seasons, right, Like, this is a ten
episode season and I know the episodes are a little
(37:02):
bit longer, but often shows used to be like eighteen
twenty episodes. That was what Sex and the City was
for the most part, with the exception of season five.
So like when you do lessen the amount of episodes,
you lessen the amount of time that you have to
play with the storyline. And I also think they were
probably highly aware of the fact that this is Emily
in Paris, and people like Paris and like the dynamic,
and there was only so long that they could get
(37:22):
away with like Alphie, we need you in Rome for
this legal contract, Mindy, please come see in Rome. And
maybe they didn't want to like split cities, but I
actually almost think that would have been better if we
had a bit of like coverage of what was going
on in Paris and coverage of what was going on
in Rome, rather than trying to shove it all into
just four episodes in Italy.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (37:40):
I agree it went very quickly, but I couldn't be
happier that we're going back to Paris.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
The little Marcello chapter.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
I I'm not a fan of him, obviously, And the
feeling I got when they were in Rome was that
it was very temporary, Like you were saying, Tina, how
we're not really establishing her with any new important.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
Characters in Rome.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
So it never felt like this was going to be
home based or somewhere that she was going to spend
a lot of her time.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
So for me, it felt like short and sweet. I'm
happy with that. Back to Paris, back to business.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
You know. I also love like the vibe of obviously
that's the whole reason we kind of fell in love
with this show. But I also just love like when yes,
she's got romantic drama or work drama, but I love
the consistency of when she is in Paris and it
just gets to feel like an office or friendship or
romantic drama and not also like now I'm in a
new place and this is happening and Marcello is here, Like,
you know, I just don't want him there, first of all,
(38:29):
and second of all, I just want to be back
in Paris.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
So I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, as I view, it kind of feels like we're
coming home.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Yeah, I to say that.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, maybe that was also part of it.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Maybe they were like, Okay, everyone's gotten too used to Paris,
we need to get them back in love with it.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
I felt unsettled with her in Rome and I was like,
I just want her to go get a croissant, not
that she really got that many croissants, but I wanted
to be able to exactly.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
I felt like almost like a device for us to
feel like, Yep, she's much more proisy. And now she's
like like, yeah, she's assimilated into life in Paris. She
has her friendship group there, she's she's really got a
life there and making us feel like this is the
journey she's been on from season one.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
Now in season five, she's home.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
You know, do you guys have any thoughts on where
things may go now that she's in Paris.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I don't want to see Marcello again, but I'm sure
I will.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
He'll pop up, He'll find me back.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I'd really love to see Mindy and Alphie get together
in a healthy way. I don't think that that's going
to happen either. I'd like to see some healthy friendship communication,
but I don't think we'll get that. What I do
think we'll get is this consistency of Gabrielle being out
of our lives, and I do love that only for
his growth. We know I'm teeing Gabrielle.
Speaker 5 (39:31):
I agree. I think we won't see a lot of Gabrielle,
which I love.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
I're already starting to miss him a little bit, you know,
and I famously despise that.
Speaker 5 (39:38):
Man, it's worked on you. Yeah, it's worked. You know,
something's working. I believe we're going.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
To see a bit of back and forth with Alfie
and MINDI there was inevitably going to be a fall
up between her and Emily, which will be huge, and
I don't know that I love that, because Mindy and
Emily have really been this like grounding force in the
show and a real like safe haven where while there's
all this chaos going around work chaos, chaos with boyfriends,
new men, her and Mindy.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Have always been good, you know.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
But I do think we're going to see some sort
of a friendship fallout and.
Speaker 5 (40:09):
Hopefully see Mindy and Alphae break up. That's my take.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
I don't love them together, so yeah, hopefully by the
end season they're not together.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
It was probably needed for Mindy and Emily to have
this cross roads in their friendship because I feel like
they haven't had a huge testing point as of yet.
My hope is that Emily has a big next career step,
because I was really feeling from her in these first
four episodes that she's ready for that next step. She
was so excited to run the Roman office without Sylvie
hovering over her and without being monitored and supervised, and
(40:39):
it just felt like this push and pull. She was
really ready for that step, but it wasn't being given
to her next. So my hope for her is that
something big happens in her career, she gets a little
bit more independence. I don't know if that will be
within agents Grotto or she'll end up starting her own thing.
I don't know what the working visa situation is like
over there, but that is my wish for Emily Cooper.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
And I'm sure Mindy will sing again.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Undoubtedly. Thank you so much for joining us today to
deep dive into the first four episodes of the new
season of Emily in Paris on Netflix. We'll be back
in your feed very soon to unpack the rest of
the seas. In our next pod drop, we'll be covering
episodes five to eight, and the one after that will
cover the last two episodes of the season. So make
sure you're following the watch Party feed wherever you get
(41:20):
your podcasts so you don't miss a beat. And if
you're loving the pod, leave us a rating and review.
Watch Party is produced by myself, Manitiurus Warren and Georgie Page,
with audio production by Scott Stronik and video production by
Michael Kein Bye Bye Bye
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