October 24, 2025 • 33 mins
We unpack every surprising moment, every creative choice, and all the twists we've seen so far in episodes 1–3 of Nobody Wants This Season 2.
Watch Party is your all-access pass to the TV everyone’s talking about. Think of this as your ultimate binge-watching sidekick—watch the episodes, then join us as we unpack what’s happening, what the cast and crew are saying, and how Season 2 is shaping up.
You’ll learn more about:
- The Honeymoon Phase: How the show portrays early-stage love, the science behind infatuation, and the moments that hint it’s coming to an end.
- The Sasha/Morgan Relationship: What Erin Foster and the cast have said about this dynamic, how the characters’ relationships are reframed this season, and the creative choices that shifted the story.
- Inter-Faith & Family Dynamics: How cultural and religious differences are explored, the impact on the characters’ families, and some personal parallels drawn from our hosts’ own experiences.
Plus, Courtney, Chelsea and Ksenija get into some of the controversial creative decisions that will set up the rest of the season—without spoiling anything beyond episode 3.
LOVE WATCH PARTY? LISTEN TO OUR OTHER EPISODES HERE:
NOBODY WANTS THIS: Everything You Need To Know Before Season 2 Drops
THE SUMMER I TURNED PRETTY: The Show That's Dominating 2025
THE SUMMER I TURNED PRETTY: The Secrets Behind The Biggest Finale Of The Year
THE THURSDAY MURDER CLUB: Netflix’s Best Cast Yet
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CREDITS
Hosts: Courtney Ammenhauser, Ksenija Lukich & Chelsea Hui
Executive Producer: Monisha Iswaran
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
From Mamma Mia, welcome to the Spill's Watch party where
we unpack the biggest shows and films that everyone is
talking about. I'm Courtney Armenhauser. I'm an executive producer here
at Mamma Mia,
Speaker 2 (00:27):
and I'm Ksenia Luki, host of Mamma Mia's entertainment podcast,
The Spill. And I'm Chelsea Hoy, the entertainment producer here
at Mamma
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Mia. On today's Watch party, we're diving into the 1st 3.
Episodes of season 2 of Nobody Wants This. So think
of this podcast as your ultimate binge-watching sidekick. So you
watch all the episodes, then you come here to unpack
all the behind the scenes details, every surprising moment of
the show. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Make
sure you've seen episodes 1 to 3, because there will
(00:53):
be spoilers, but you're completely safe beyond that, we promise.
OK, let's catch up our listeners. So you might remember
that against all odds, the prophet and I fell in
love and we became an adorable couple. Then at a
very fun bat mitzvah for his niece, I freaked out
and broke it off with him. I was actually being
very selfless, putting his career over my own happiness. Anyway,
(01:14):
he ran after me in a very roman.
It was as if I planned the whole thing, but
I swear I didn't. And now we're making it work.
We're actually, we've made it work. We're an amazing couple. OK,
we're up to season 2, and whenever I'm starting a
new season of a show, I'm always trying to work
out how much time has passed, how long has it
been since we finished the last season.
(01:34):
What do you guys think? How long do you reckon
it's been between
Speaker 2 (01:37):
drinks? I was one of the first things I thought
as well, and I was like trying to calculate it
in my brain. I was like, is it in real time?
Is it since the last season ended?
It's not because season one came out in September of
last year, September of 2024. So over a year has
passed since the previous season was released. But I think
we're looking at a couple of months because we're kind
(01:59):
of doing that first dinner party. We're we're meeting each
other's friends, we're kind of bringing back the group together. So,
I would say,
That's a couple of months into a relationship. It's well
and truly still the honeymoon phase, which kind of is
the whole theme of that first episode.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah. What do you think? I would say 1
Speaker 2 (02:17):
to 2 months as well, just because with the Esther, Sasha,
Morgan kind of saga, episode one, we see them have
this conversation hashing out kind of the debacle that happened
at the end of last season. And it still feels
very fresh. I feel like Esther is still kind of
working through how she feels about it. So I would say, yeah,
a couple of months after we left off last season.
I was
(02:37):
Also going to the point of like, what are they
wearing at the end of the season? Were they wearing
like wintery clothes or were they? And they're still in
kind of like warmer clothes. Um, even though it's LA
and you never need winter clothes in LA, I don't
know why they're so rugged up. I feel like that
dinner party, it was such a throwback. It was like
mirroring the dinner party in season one, where they first met.
(02:57):
You know, it's really interesting though, seeing the dynamics of
different friendship groups coming together, different people. But the whole
thing is,
Honeymoon phase, Morgan keeps saying it to Joanne. Joanne's like, No,
we're fine. Like, we're doing great.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
But what I'm saying is that a relationship isn't solid
until you're out of the honeymoon phase. We are out
of the honeymoon phase. What? No, you're not. You've been
together for like 5 minutes. The real test is like,
you know,
Speaker 2 (03:21):
when you merge your lives and you
Speaker 1 (03:22):
blend
Speaker 2 (03:23):
your
Speaker 1 (03:23):
friends.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (03:23):
that's what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
We're hosting our first dinner party, which you're invited to,
Speaker 1 (03:28):
by the way,
Speaker 2 (03:28):
and you still have an RSVP. OK, I'm RSVPing right now.
Calm down. Right now, this here, this is my RSVP, OK? Cool.
You've got like some signs.
on the honeymoon phase, right? You did some like actual
research
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I
did some research. I looked at some, you know, accredited
sources to figure out what the hell defines the honeymoon phase,
because she's constantly being reminded, you know, this might not last,
you're still like in the early phases and all of that. So,
I didn't actually know how long it lasted. So I
looked to our friends at Harvard Medical School. See
Speaker 2 (03:59):
guys, you're
gonna get really, like, this is legit. This is not
just fluff. We
giving you the science, biology.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It's biology, it's not just the vibe, but, um, yeah,
so according to Harvard Medical School, ever heard of them,
it can last up to 1 to 2 years, the
honeymoon phase. So I feel like, you know, depending on
where this season goes, this whole season could end up
still being them navigating that period, because when you fall
in love, according to the research, a bunch of the
(04:29):
hormones associated with the reward circuit flood your brain, which
I feel like most of us know, like,
When you're falling in love, you feel euphoric. You're getting
the butterflies, you're feeling all like woo woo and lovey-dovey,
and you feel sometimes a bit insane. And part of
that can lead to some of the behavior that's a
bit obsessive or compulsive, and that's actually because of the
(04:51):
rise in cortisol. The next bit I didn't know, your
serotonin levels actually deplete. So they're kind of at odds,
which kind of makes sense when you think about
How insane you can feel in those early stages, and
some of the behaviors you do, you might go, Why
did I do that? Or you feel a bit like
your judgment's not quite right, you're doing weird things.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, I feel like it's like you're trying to hide
the crazy. Yeah, you know, like, I need you to
fall in love with me before I show you my crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, you're showing your best self.
If you're pushing everything else down with
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Joanne and Noah's relationship, I feel like in these first
couple of episodes, this is where we see those cracks
start to show. And the biggest crack is at the
dinner party, where we're talking about conversion. They talk about
sort of, OK, so when are you gonna convert? Oh,
I'm not going to, we're just we're gonna table it.
And it is that classic miscommunication of
(05:42):
Hang on a second, I thought you said that. No, no, no,
I said it this way, and it's, you can just
see them both looking at each other going, Wait a second,
and I, that is so realistic in terms of a relationship.
When you just, you forget and you, you don't actually
communicate properly. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (05:59):
you've had the same conversation and come away with completely
different breeds on it. That was really like, what the
hell moment. People have that, that's real, as you say,
it's very
realistic.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
What I think is also really nice is seeing the,
the cracks kind of show and conflict start to build
up when you're starting to kind of move out of
the first stages of dating, but also the positives of that,
I think we see Noah really show up for Joanne
in really small ways, like that really show that they've
moved past that and
Initial phase. So that moment that we see Noah get
Joanne the nightstand, cause he's noticed that she has nowhere
(06:29):
to put her stuff at night. I feel like that's
definitely what women really actually want in a relationship. They
want someone who sees them, sees them past just that physical,
it's anticipating needs. But do you know what the reason
that we kind of feel that so deeply is because
it's someone seeing you, rather than just like listening to
(06:50):
what you're saying, is anticipating needs that
They haven't asked you for this. Anticipating your needs and
noticing that you need something, and having the courtesy and
the initiative to go and get that for you is
such a beautiful quality in a partner. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (07:07):
it's so thoughtful. And I think as well, kind of
what you were saying about the cracks forming, that could
have been a crack that went the other way, but
instead he.
of glue it back
together.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah. I think also, I mean, it's clear that Noah
is a man written by a woman. Like, there are
so many, it's exactly what you were saying, Casenya. It's
really in the little things. Once you've been together a
little bit longer, it's in the day to day things
that you're doing. And I, there's one thing that like
stuck out to me so much was her getting into
bed and putting her, like, ice cold feet on him.
And I was like, that flowers are great, but if
(07:39):
a man allows you to warm your ice cold feet
on him when you get into bed, that, that's a
love that my husband doesn't let me do that, does that.
I'm so jealous
I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
What do you guys think of some other moments in
the series so far that are sort of leading them
out of the honeymoon phase?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I mean, I think a big one for any couple
is when you truly start to combine your lives, friends, family,
and things. So that first dinner party is a really
big milestone for them. And
Honestly, it's, it's beautiful, but it's also very chaotic, which
I feel is true to real life. They're really playing
like house. I feel, you know, it's very much like,
I'm gonna make the appetizers and, you know, dress up.
(08:19):
And it's so funny how she's so focused on how
everyone's dressed, and the fact that their friend is like
lying on the floor. She's like, No, can, is he
not coming? He's not coming to the party. OK, so
we'll have to reset the table, and I, I really
like relate to that as when you're hosting something and
you've got
A certain, like, layout, and then someone drops out or
(08:41):
someone can't come, and you have to like scramble to
fix it. And you can see that like the cogs
turning in Joanne's brain. Yeah, it's like when you have
this perfect picture in your mind, how you want it
to go when your friends do come together, and then
nothing goes to plan. Like, for instance, them trying to
set up Lenny and Morgan and him just being like, No, like,
I'm good. I don't, I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
That
was really funny.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I love, I love that. And I, do you know what?
Another thing that I really felt is the way that
Morgan was reacting to their relationship as well was something
that really clicked for me. Obviously, she's a sister. She's like,
Did you just call him Babe? Like the babe bit,
like the pet names. Like when you start dropping into
that part. And then also, I think that we start
to see them developing a bit.
(09:24):
More as a couple, once we meet Dr. Andy, because
they're clearly in this very fresh point and like, it's
like Morgan's trying to show them, you know, it's a
family thing. It's like, I'm in this brand new relationship.
You two are like the old hats now, and we're
kind of, we start to get that comparison of the
two relationships
between them.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
With Morgan picking up on the babe thing, I think
that's really interesting when your closest.
Friends or family members go, Hmm, I've never seen that
side of you. Like, it's that strange behavior that we're
talking about before, or not strange, but just like different.
People are going, Is that really you? Like you would
never call someone babe.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah. It's also interesting that, you know, they've really put
a hard line in, I don't want you talking about
our relationship on the pod. And their whole podcast was
about them like being pretty open about sex and relationships.
And
You know, you see Joanne shut down and go, We're not, no,
we're not, no, we're not. No. I, I quite like
it when Noah jumps in, though, and tries to to
love that scene as well. It is a thing where like,
(10:23):
your worlds are colliding and Joanne and Noah are very
different in how they show up in the world and
how they express themselves. And it is interesting seeing her
trying to reconcile that and still do the podcast, but
keep her life private for Noah's sake.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And do you think that's also part
Of why Morgan's choosing certain pursuits in her romantic life
as well to kind of make up for
Speaker 2 (10:45):
in episode 3, when she brought Dr. Andy around, I
was like, this is a joke, like she's just found
this guy on the street.
But then we get the therapist's bombshell, and I was like,
What
Speaker 1 (10:58):
the
Speaker 2 (10:58):
hell? It was such a great comedic moment when everybody
finds out that they met at the therapist's office. She goes, I, well,
we met in the waiting room? No, not in the
waiting room. Oh, you met in the car park, the
car park. No, a little bit, oh, the elevator, the elevator. No, no, no,
I was her therapist. Also the scene where Noah and
the whole family are sitting in the sauna, and he's telling,
(11:19):
I feel like that also was a good indication of like.
They have moved past this initial dating phase, because he
is really starting to integrate into her family. They're all
got this little club where they're like, Oh my God,
Morgan's gone insane. She's dating her
therapist.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I think even him getting into the sauna with the family,
among all their trash was really symbolic of him being
OK with the family's baggage and them moving out of
the honeymoon phase. Coming up, we're diving into what I
would say is a controversial creative decision when it comes
to one of the plot lines we saw in season
one that isn't being seen in season two. No, no.
(11:55):
So one of the biggest things we've been speculating about
was what was gonna happen with the Sacha Morgan relationship.
Everyone's been talking about it. There's been think pieces written
about it, and now we finally know that they're not
pursuing it. Chelse, what have the creators been saying about
that decision?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
They've actually said quite a lot. I feel like they dropped,
or not even hints. They really told us where that
dynamic was gonna go this season. So Erin Foster has
said straight up that they were gonna wrap up that weird, like,
is it romantic sort of storyline. She said that we
want to see more Esther, which, true, I think we
all want to see a more fleshed out version of Esther.
And she's also said that we can still explore the
(12:32):
connection between these two. Obviously, they get along really well
and there's something really special between them, but they can
do that without making Morgan a quote unquote, home wrecker.
I know, and I look, I said this last step,
but I was so upset to see that. Like, it
was really disappointing to me because I didn't want to
see a happy marriage breakup. But the chemistry between Morgan
and Sasha is so palpable. Like you can see it.
(12:55):
And I think what potentially happened is during that filming
of season one, it was maybe an unexpected chemistry that
they didn't expect them to be so sparky. They saw
reactions and they've gone, Whoop, cause I do feel like
in season two, these 1st 3 episodes, particularly, we're seeing
a real backtracking. They have pulled it right back. And
(13:18):
the first time that we see that is like in
the bedroom. But
Does Timothy Simmons, who plays Sasha, say anything about Sasha's journey? Yeah,
I think very similar things. So he also dispelled any
rumors that they were gonna get together, and he said, quote,
I would say that it's not particularly funny to break
up a family. They're all in agreement that we don't
need to see that. You know, we wanna see Sasha
(13:39):
and Morgan on screen, but just not in that way. Yeah,
I really that first, you know, with.
up that it's the season with them in the bedroom
of one of the funniest scenes. And the fact that
that Sasha and Morgan are sitting on the bed and
Esther's like, she was like a school teacher, like waving
her finger at them being like, What have you naughty
kids been doing? Sasha's like, are we gonna have a threesome?
(14:01):
I'm thinking, are they?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, I mean, fair question, I thought.
I just want to say that I'm in no way
prepared to have a threesome right now. This is not
where I thought this was gonna go, and I could
do it. In what world do you think this is
the threesome I would initiate? First of all, neither of
you would be involved. I agreed. Wait, I wouldn't be there.
This is not a threesome.
(14:24):
This is just a conversation. Well, most threesomes probably start
with a conversation. I have literally never started a threesome
with a conversation, but you don't have to lay down ground.
How many threesomes have you been in? I want to
talk more about Esther because I feel like her character
is being developed a lot more and we're getting more
of a three dimensional version of her.
Yeah, Chelse, what do you reckon about this characterization and
(14:46):
this growth that we get to see of
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Esther? I mean, I do think they've done some backtracking
since last season with Sasha and Morgan, but also with
Esther and her relationship with Sasha. I feel like this season,
it's a much more loving, much more fun, much more
balanced relationship between the two. Is she fun?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
She wants to
Speaker 2 (15:06):
be to be fun. I think Esther's fine. I think
she's so fun. There was definitely a lot of backlash
on season one of the characterization of Esther, and people
thought it was a one dimensional characterization of a Jewish woman.
So I think that they've really redone a little bit,
given her some more depth, and she's actually become one
of my favorite characters this season. And she's definitely
(15:28):
Going through some flux and changes in identity for herself. But,
you know, we really see her come into this group
a little bit more. And I love seeing Morgan, Joanne
and Esther on the bleachers. Like that scene's great. I
loved the scene of them in the bedroom. Like, she's
just giving us a bit more
punch.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
That moment where she says it 2 or 3 times.
Times actually, in the first couple of episodes of the
I can be fun. I found that really piercing, and
I think it revealed a lot about her having to
be the person who's kind of holding the relationship together,
or doing the boring stuff while Sasha gets to be
the class clown and be the fun one. And I
don't know, that was something that just really struck me
(16:10):
as quite powerful.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I might be talking more here generally about, like, as
a mom.
You kind of become the manager of the household, right?
So you're managing all of this. And I actually heard
this thing, it's like, when you ask a kid how they,
they know their mom loves them, it's, she makes my food,
she does the washing, da, da, da, da. When you
ask a dad, it's, he spends time with me. So,
and that I think is a very much a key
(16:33):
thing in like, as an older woman, when you've got
kids or you're in that sort of home environment, that
is a very key thing for women.
And to have to run the household. And Sasha's a
bit of a weirdo,
Speaker 1 (16:44):
you know? He's fun and flirty and whatever, but it's like, yeah,
but that would be annoying if
Speaker 2 (16:49):
you had to. Someone's got to hold it together and
keep it together. be fun too. I love her when she's,
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I actually love her so
much.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
You can see that Sasha's like, I've maybe screwed up
and I'm now going to be a very good husband
because he definitely pulls away. He's like, Do you know
what I love? Esther goes, whore number one.
And whore number 2. See, she is fun. She's so fun.
I love it. I love that she calls her whore
#2 to her face. So full on. I also love
(17:20):
when Morgan's like, I haven't seen you be fun, but
I'm looking forward to it. I know. That was so great.
But you know, we see this rekindling of Esther and
Sasha's relationship. He leaves the basketball game halfway through, he
just picks up her hand and takes it.
leave. They go take a gummy together on the bench together.
I would say that's pretty fun.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
That's pretty fun. Mid-game.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah. But they made it very clear that they don't
want this Morgan and Sasha relationship, but we'd still want
to see a friendship. So like, beyond episode 3, do
we think that there's going to be more of this? Like,
are they gonna be more friendly together? I think
I think it'll feel more platonic, but I also think
what we will see is Esther really come into that
(18:00):
dynamic and her kind of get to know Morgan on
a different level. And I think that will kind of
make it feel less like these two are sneaking around
or less like there's something weird going on, and Esther's
kind of excluded from that. Yeah, she's more aware of
that relationship rather than, like, it's like she's.
Not allowing them to be friends, but she's now in
(18:21):
on the friendship rather than it being hidden from her.
I think what made it feel like some sort of
like illicit affair was the fact that she didn't know
that they were texting and having conversations. So I think
it's much more out in the open this time. I
hated texting in the bathroom. I said that last episode,
but I really, it made me feel so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Phone calls were a lot. She's inserting herself into that
dynamic now, and I wonder if it'll be a case
of like, enemies to lovers with their friendship. Like, I
wonder if it goes the whole hog. And
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I
would love that if Morgan and Esther were to become
best friends. Like that's the duo we need to see.
I know, I love that. I think Morgan, again, is
just such a fun.
Fun character. I just love her, her sass and her
quick wit and her no fucks attitude. And I think
that we really see that again in episode 2, where
(19:08):
at the basketball game, and we get Bea.
Queen Bea walking in, strutting in. What an iconic. She
is like my favorite. She's such a queen. Just that
strength and, again, it's, it's kind of similar to Morgan
in that no fucks Given, and we see that in
that bathroom scene where they're both in the bathroom. You know,
(19:28):
Morgan, I don't like you, but I respect you.
I'm sorry
Do you respect me?
Yes, well, a little.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I
Speaker 2 (19:37):
admire that you don't give a
Speaker 1 (19:38):
shit
Speaker 2 (19:38):
about what other people think.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Me, I care what people think. I think that I
don't like you, but I respect you as her saying,
I see myself in you.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And so I understand your type, but I know that
you're gonna be hard
work.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
And what I really love about that scene, there's one
line that Bina says that really, really struck me. It's
when Morgan's obviously just had her feelings hurt by something
Lenny said.
And Bea says, the reason what he said hurt your
feelings is not because he thinks that. It's because you
think that. And I just thought that was so profound.
I feel like I've had a therapist, you know, say
that to me before? That hit me so deep. Do
you know what the, the thing about this show, and
(20:16):
the reason
I'm so excited that we're talking about it on Watch
party is because it does have these really incredibly profound
and like great moments, and there is so much more
to it than just like this fluffy rom-com. Like there's
a lot of depth to it. That line, I swear
every time.
I feel like someone's slighting me. It's because that's how
(20:37):
I feel about it because you're insecure about something. Yes,
Speaker 1 (20:40):
it's so piercing when there's someone holds the mirror up
like that and you go, they're really mean, but yes,
as Bena says, it's because you believe it to be true.
Another bright idea from Bena is for Sasha and Esther
to have another baby, which I think, I mean, we've
just discussed how she's
Speaker 2 (20:58):
she's so
Speaker 1 (20:59):
good. She's so rogue. But, you know, Esther's saying, I
want to be the fun one. We've only got 5 more.
And then we're empty nesters. Why would she want to
go through all of that 1518, 20 years again?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
It's such a man thing to say, because all of
the emotional labor falls on women, and I feel like
it's a very broken record thing to say because it's,
it's so obvious these days. But when Bena suggests that,
and Sasha's like, Oh yeah, maybe. Also, I just have
to really touch on how Bena just has a key
to their house. It just like walks in. boundaries. Sasha, Sasha.
(21:31):
We're gonna need that key back and she goes, No.
He's like, OK, fantastic. But yeah, like Esther's like, this
is the worst possible thing for our relationship. And
Speaker 1 (21:43):
he's going, No, band-aid, baby. Yeah, but like,
Speaker 2 (21:45):
look how cute the kid is. And it's like, yeah,
but you don't have to carry the
Speaker 1 (21:49):
bloody thing. I think she replies with, it's not that cute.
And then that has so much subtext of everything you're saying, because,
you don't have to be pregnant, you don't have to
be the default parent, you don't have to have the
emotional mental load, yes, of it all.
I just thought that was a really fascinating and quirky
idea from our friend Bena.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yes. OK. So, the Sasha and Morgan thing is out
the door now, and we've got 3 key relationships. Joanne
and Noah, Esther and Sasha, and Morgan and Doctor Andy.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Coming up next, we are unpacking the theme that I
would say is at the crux of the series, and
it's also one that some of us here can personally
connect to. No.
So one of the key things we're seeing in these
3 episodes, particularly episode 3, I would say, is not
just the differences between their faith, but also the way
their family dynamics play out. What did you guys think
of the scene where Joanne's finally invited to Shabbat? Kisenya?
Speaker 2 (22:44):
It
is so stark. This episode is just such a contrast
in family dynamics. And, you know, we see her going
to Shabbat dinner.
It's this beautiful, ornate house. Bea is obviously at the
head of the table. I think there is nothing accidental
about that at all, cause she is the boss. So
(23:05):
she's sort of there, she's the matriarch, she's lording over
them all for their Shabbat dinner. And, you know, this
is a very important time for them. They do this
every Friday night. This is the time that they come together,
and Joanne picks up her phone.
Now, I just want to preface this saying, I am
not Jewish, none of us are Jewish here. But what
(23:26):
I do know is that Shabbat is supposed to, to
not have any technology. So after sundown, you're not supposed
to like be touching your phone at dinner. So straight away,
Bena goes, What are you doing? You're looking at your phone.
And Joanne says, the craziest thing ever is, Morgan weirdly
thinks it's her mom's birthday on the 6th.
And they're all like, Wait, is it your mom's birthday? Oh, no, no,
(23:47):
it's not today, it's on the other day, da da da.
You're not gonna text your mother on her birthday. Like
they are so shocked. And Noah's mortified. Like, I haven't
said Happy birthday to your mom. I haven't gotten her
a present. We're not doing dinner. Like, what's happening? It's crazy.
And I can so relate to that, you know, that
sort of very family oriented culture. I've come from Cassini
(24:08):
Luca is obviously not an Australian name, but that's like
it's so
Serbian culture, that is, family is the number one thing, like, very, very,
very important is the tight knit family unit. So the
idea of not messaging my mother until 6 p.m. on
her birthday is horrifying, like, absolutely unheard
Speaker 1 (24:25):
of. And I think too, just the fact that they
were so flippant that. Is it today or is it
in 2 days? Like that also just sent shivers down
their spines.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
It was funny seeing Noah's dad. He just couldn't, the
whole dinner, get his mind around it. He's like,
6 p.m. like the the conversation's moved on and he's like,
it's close
Speaker 1 (24:42):
of business, mate. What are
Speaker 2 (24:43):
you doing? They're so shocked and Joanne's like, Oh, well,
I guess like sometimes we used to go get doughnuts
and I don't know. And Noah goes, Well, oh, we're
planning a birthday party. And Joanne reluctantly agrees to do this.
And I think that, again, we get very, very stark differences.
Tell
Speaker 1 (25:02):
us, what did you think about Noah's reaction when he
realized that
Not only did Joanne not quite understand or remember when he's,
when her mom's birthday is, but also hadn't organized anything.
I mean,
Speaker 2 (25:12):
honestly, I relate to that. I was a bit mortified
to hear that, that whole thing going down, but I
think it's interesting to see someone like Noah who's grown
up with such strong traditions and now dating someone who
they really didn't grow up with a whole lot of
traditions or they haven't really held on to them.
And him projecting what he thinks a family should be
onto her and be like, No, we need to celebrate
(25:34):
your mum's birthday. You guys used to get doughnuts, like,
we should do that. We should start instilling these traditions
into your family because that's what he grew up thinking
family life should be like. Yeah, and I think we're
looking here, and I know we've spoken about the honeymoon phase,
but we are also looking at the fact that they're
still kind of, they're not skirting around this, her converting.
You know, he lost his job as head rabbi because
(25:55):
of his relationship with the Gentile. Like, the reason we
meet Big Noah is because he, he lost that because
of his relationship, and he sacrificed that. Then he finds
out that she's not quite ready to convert. She's waiting
for a sign. She understands that it's a really big deal.
So we've got this tension here of faith being such
Core part. And I think very much intertwined with faith
(26:19):
is culture, and particularly in something like a Jewish faith.
Jewish faith and Jewish culture become really intertwined. I can
relate to that because in Serbian culture, faith and culture
are also incredibly intertwined. So even if you aren't particularly religious,
the cultural traditions that are so tied into that,
They're very, very closely related. And I think that Noah's like, Well,
(26:41):
if you're not converting yet, then we need to make
sure the values, these core values that I have, you
also share. So I'm gonna make you do this for
your mother. Yeah, it's a big theme this season, I think,
them grappling with values, lifestyle, family, bringing together of your life,
and finding that there's actually quite a lot of conflict
there because they grew up so differently.
(27:02):
It's interesting. It's definitely interesting. And and the fact that
Joanne's mom's like, I don't even really wanna be, like,
she's like, what are you what are we doing? Like,
can I go? Like I don't wanna be. She's being
held hostage on her own birthday. I was like, let's
have fun.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
She's like, I would like a day to myself, thanks.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Joanne's doing this to please him, to, to make him
happy because she knows that I think she, she obviously
feels a bit of guilt for him losing.
This big role, Bea is obviously furious, and his whole career,
that's this thing that he has wanted for so long,
and he's such a little golden retriever that he doesn't
like say anything. But we know that this is such
(27:41):
a huge part for him. And when you're looking at relationships,
and a lot of the times, if you're from like
a very culturally strong background, that shared value and culture.
Is often so integral to making a relationship work. Chelsea,
I know that you've got like sort of two quite
different cultures in your life as well. Yeah, I think
(28:05):
it's interesting. One thing that I really, I just personally
resonate with being from an immigrant household is this idea,
which is very prevalent in episodes 1 to 3.
The idea of suppression versus expression. It's really Noah versus
Joanne in that regard, where Joanne is very open, very honest,
and really believes in airing out what you're feeling, whereas
(28:28):
Noah keeps it all very close, and he has a
hard time asking for help, reaching out. He has a
hard time opening up about feelings of frustration or anger.
And I think
That's not uncommon in a lot of immigrant households where
feelings of frustration, anger, sadness feel almost shameful. We're like, no, no, no, hush, hush.
We shouldn't be talking about this with everybody else. Yeah,
(28:49):
I didn't have any food. You're not allowed to complain
about that. I used to walk to school. Oh my God. Chelsey.
I got that so much. I used to have to
make clothes out of like tents, like, OK.
I get it. But I'm allowed to be sad that
I didn't, that boy doesn't like me. 100. And we
see like episode 2 after the basketball game where, you know,
(29:10):
they're around the tree and Noah finally kind of lets
up about how he's feeling about not getting senior rabbi
and being resentful of Big Noah and everything he's just
pent up and been feeling, and it's just a moment
of release for him. And I think throughout the season,
we really
that kind of push and pull between Joanne and Noah
and kind of finding a middle ground of their personalities,
I guess, and how they were raised.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Definitely. And I think that also links back to the
honeymoon phase and then starting to let their guard down
a little bit. And that happens when you're enmeshing your family,
their family, the traditions. It's all kind of coming to
a head in this episode 3, I think. I think
the suppression and expression piece that you spoke about, Chelsea,
is also kind of linking back to
(29:53):
What we loved about Noah in season one, he was
this kind of idyllic, perfect dream boat guy that we
all wanted to date, but it was also like, what's
beneath that? And now we're starting to see a little
bit more, which I think is really important, especially if
these two want to get out of the honeymoon phase.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, for sure, and I think like it is interesting
talking about like my own experience with marrying. I'm, my
family's from Hong Kong and my partner's Sri Lankan.
And we both have very strong cultures and that coming together,
there's always things, there's, I mean, to be honest, they're
both Asian cultures, so there is a bit of overlap,
but there are just things that once you're together, you
realize like, wow, OK, that is like starkly different and
(30:32):
something we need to work through. The first thing that
really comes to mind is just Sri Lankan culture in
general is very like
Big communities, very tight knit in that way. Hong Kong culture,
not that there aren't strong community ties, but the community's
a little bit more insulated and smaller. And so when
we went to plan our wedding, that was like a
big culture shock, where he would bring me a list
(30:54):
and be like, These are all the people that we're like,
genuinely close to. I barely know anyone beyond my like
first cousins. Like, that's kind of where it stops when
it comes to extended family. And so when we're trying
to curate this guest list, there's just a lot of
back and forth and
It was interesting to say the least. I, I feel you, um,
I had people at my wedding that I didn't know. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
What I wanna ask you guys based off that is,
think back to those moments where you were at the
first family dinner when your partner came in Casenya. What
was it like, cause you were the Noah in that scenario.
What's he feeling? What's he going through when Joanne picks
up the phone? Like, if your partner did something that
was a bit out of character.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
My parents were a bit more like, I didn't have
quite have a beer in our family. My dad was
always very, was a bit cold to my dad in
probably the first year.
But 16 years later he's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
They've warmed up,
Speaker 2 (31:42):
he's
warmed up. I also think like I also don't really
have a *** in my immediate family, but I'm sure
you know lots of ***. I also do like I
think that character is so well written in the sense that.
I know so many, like, women in my life who
are abina, that like iconic, very strong, very strong-willed, very blunt,
(32:03):
but just like an icon. Yeah, she's an icon, queen.
I also think it's really lovely to see an interfaith,
intercultural relationship play out on such a massive scale on
this huge mainstream Netflix show. And not just like, oh yeah,
they're together, they lived happily ever after. No, like the
real complexities and challenges of making that work and how
(32:24):
that can be.
really difficult, and I think a lot of people could
really relate to that. Yeah, and we'll definitely see this
developing as the season goes on.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Thank
you so much for listening to Watch Party today. Don't worry,
that's not all we have in store for you. There's
heaps still to come. So make sure you are following
the Watch party feed so you don't miss our coverage
of the rest of the season. Our next deep dive
is into episodes 4 to 6 of the season, and
that is coming to your watch party feed soon. You
won't want to miss it. Chelsea Casena, can you give
(32:52):
me a little teaser on what you're most excited?
that's coming up.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
I'm really excited to see more of Noah's character and
why he might not be the perfect man we think
he is. So I have a theory about how each
character fits into a different category of something, but I'm
gonna leave it there and then you kind of listen
to the next episode to find out what it is.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
What a tease. Watch Party is produced by Monisha Iswarren
and Georgie Page with sound production by Scott Stronick and
video production by Michael Keane. We'll see you back here
to keep unpacking season 2. Bye.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Mhm.
From Mamma Mia, welcome to the Spill's Watch party where
we unpack the biggest shows and films that everyone is
talking about. I'm Courtney Armenhauser. I'm an executive producer here
at Mamma Mia,
Speaker 2 (00:27):
and I'm Ksenia Luki, host of Mamma Mia's entertainment podcast,
The Spill. And I'm Chelsea Hoy, the entertainment producer here
at Mamma
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Mia. On today's Watch party, we're diving into the 1st 3.
Episodes of season 2 of Nobody Wants This. So think
of this podcast as your ultimate binge-watching sidekick. So you
watch all the episodes, then you come here to unpack
all the behind the scenes details, every surprising moment of
the show. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Make
sure you've seen episodes 1 to 3, because there will
(00:53):
be spoilers, but you're completely safe beyond that, we promise.
OK, let's catch up our listeners. So you might remember
that against all odds, the prophet and I fell in
love and we became an adorable couple. Then at a
very fun bat mitzvah for his niece, I freaked out
and broke it off with him. I was actually being
very selfless, putting his career over my own happiness. Anyway,
(01:14):
he ran after me in a very roman.
It was as if I planned the whole thing, but
I swear I didn't. And now we're making it work.
We're actually, we've made it work. We're an amazing couple. OK,
we're up to season 2, and whenever I'm starting a
new season of a show, I'm always trying to work
out how much time has passed, how long has it
been since we finished the last season.
(01:34):
What do you guys think? How long do you reckon
it's been between
Speaker 2 (01:37):
drinks? I was one of the first things I thought
as well, and I was like trying to calculate it
in my brain. I was like, is it in real time?
Is it since the last season ended?
It's not because season one came out in September of
last year, September of 2024. So over a year has
passed since the previous season was released. But I think
we're looking at a couple of months because we're kind
(01:59):
of doing that first dinner party. We're we're meeting each
other's friends, we're kind of bringing back the group together. So,
I would say,
That's a couple of months into a relationship. It's well
and truly still the honeymoon phase, which kind of is
the whole theme of that first episode.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah. What do you think? I would say 1
Speaker 2 (02:17):
to 2 months as well, just because with the Esther, Sasha,
Morgan kind of saga, episode one, we see them have
this conversation hashing out kind of the debacle that happened
at the end of last season. And it still feels
very fresh. I feel like Esther is still kind of
working through how she feels about it. So I would say, yeah,
a couple of months after we left off last season.
I was
(02:37):
Also going to the point of like, what are they
wearing at the end of the season? Were they wearing
like wintery clothes or were they? And they're still in
kind of like warmer clothes. Um, even though it's LA
and you never need winter clothes in LA, I don't
know why they're so rugged up. I feel like that
dinner party, it was such a throwback. It was like
mirroring the dinner party in season one, where they first met.
(02:57):
You know, it's really interesting though, seeing the dynamics of
different friendship groups coming together, different people. But the whole
thing is,
Honeymoon phase, Morgan keeps saying it to Joanne. Joanne's like, No,
we're fine. Like, we're doing great.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
But what I'm saying is that a relationship isn't solid
until you're out of the honeymoon phase. We are out
of the honeymoon phase. What? No, you're not. You've been
together for like 5 minutes. The real test is like,
you know,
Speaker 2 (03:21):
when you merge your lives and you
Speaker 1 (03:22):
blend
Speaker 2 (03:23):
your
Speaker 1 (03:23):
friends.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (03:23):
that's what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
We're hosting our first dinner party, which you're invited to,
Speaker 1 (03:28):
by the way,
Speaker 2 (03:28):
and you still have an RSVP. OK, I'm RSVPing right now.
Calm down. Right now, this here, this is my RSVP, OK? Cool.
You've got like some signs.
on the honeymoon phase, right? You did some like actual
research
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I
did some research. I looked at some, you know, accredited
sources to figure out what the hell defines the honeymoon phase,
because she's constantly being reminded, you know, this might not last,
you're still like in the early phases and all of that. So,
I didn't actually know how long it lasted. So I
looked to our friends at Harvard Medical School. See
Speaker 2 (03:59):
guys, you're
gonna get really, like, this is legit. This is not
just fluff. We
giving you the science, biology.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It's biology, it's not just the vibe, but, um, yeah,
so according to Harvard Medical School, ever heard of them,
it can last up to 1 to 2 years, the
honeymoon phase. So I feel like, you know, depending on
where this season goes, this whole season could end up
still being them navigating that period, because when you fall
in love, according to the research, a bunch of the
(04:29):
hormones associated with the reward circuit flood your brain, which
I feel like most of us know, like,
When you're falling in love, you feel euphoric. You're getting
the butterflies, you're feeling all like woo woo and lovey-dovey,
and you feel sometimes a bit insane. And part of
that can lead to some of the behavior that's a
bit obsessive or compulsive, and that's actually because of the
(04:51):
rise in cortisol. The next bit I didn't know, your
serotonin levels actually deplete. So they're kind of at odds,
which kind of makes sense when you think about
How insane you can feel in those early stages, and
some of the behaviors you do, you might go, Why
did I do that? Or you feel a bit like
your judgment's not quite right, you're doing weird things.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, I feel like it's like you're trying to hide
the crazy. Yeah, you know, like, I need you to
fall in love with me before I show you my crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, you're showing your best self.
If you're pushing everything else down with
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Joanne and Noah's relationship, I feel like in these first
couple of episodes, this is where we see those cracks
start to show. And the biggest crack is at the
dinner party, where we're talking about conversion. They talk about
sort of, OK, so when are you gonna convert? Oh,
I'm not going to, we're just we're gonna table it.
And it is that classic miscommunication of
(05:42):
Hang on a second, I thought you said that. No, no, no,
I said it this way, and it's, you can just
see them both looking at each other going, Wait a second,
and I, that is so realistic in terms of a relationship.
When you just, you forget and you, you don't actually
communicate properly. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (05:59):
you've had the same conversation and come away with completely
different breeds on it. That was really like, what the
hell moment. People have that, that's real, as you say,
it's very
realistic.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
What I think is also really nice is seeing the,
the cracks kind of show and conflict start to build
up when you're starting to kind of move out of
the first stages of dating, but also the positives of that,
I think we see Noah really show up for Joanne
in really small ways, like that really show that they've
moved past that and
Initial phase. So that moment that we see Noah get
Joanne the nightstand, cause he's noticed that she has nowhere
(06:29):
to put her stuff at night. I feel like that's
definitely what women really actually want in a relationship. They
want someone who sees them, sees them past just that physical,
it's anticipating needs. But do you know what the reason
that we kind of feel that so deeply is because
it's someone seeing you, rather than just like listening to
(06:50):
what you're saying, is anticipating needs that
They haven't asked you for this. Anticipating your needs and
noticing that you need something, and having the courtesy and
the initiative to go and get that for you is
such a beautiful quality in a partner. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (07:07):
it's so thoughtful. And I think as well, kind of
what you were saying about the cracks forming, that could
have been a crack that went the other way, but
instead he.
of glue it back
together.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah. I think also, I mean, it's clear that Noah
is a man written by a woman. Like, there are
so many, it's exactly what you were saying, Casenya. It's
really in the little things. Once you've been together a
little bit longer, it's in the day to day things
that you're doing. And I, there's one thing that like
stuck out to me so much was her getting into
bed and putting her, like, ice cold feet on him.
And I was like, that flowers are great, but if
(07:39):
a man allows you to warm your ice cold feet
on him when you get into bed, that, that's a
love that my husband doesn't let me do that, does that.
I'm so jealous
I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
What do you guys think of some other moments in
the series so far that are sort of leading them
out of the honeymoon phase?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I mean, I think a big one for any couple
is when you truly start to combine your lives, friends, family,
and things. So that first dinner party is a really
big milestone for them. And
Honestly, it's, it's beautiful, but it's also very chaotic, which
I feel is true to real life. They're really playing
like house. I feel, you know, it's very much like,
I'm gonna make the appetizers and, you know, dress up.
(08:19):
And it's so funny how she's so focused on how
everyone's dressed, and the fact that their friend is like
lying on the floor. She's like, No, can, is he
not coming? He's not coming to the party. OK, so
we'll have to reset the table, and I, I really
like relate to that as when you're hosting something and
you've got
A certain, like, layout, and then someone drops out or
(08:41):
someone can't come, and you have to like scramble to
fix it. And you can see that like the cogs
turning in Joanne's brain. Yeah, it's like when you have
this perfect picture in your mind, how you want it
to go when your friends do come together, and then
nothing goes to plan. Like, for instance, them trying to
set up Lenny and Morgan and him just being like, No, like,
I'm good. I don't, I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
That
was really funny.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I love, I love that. And I, do you know what?
Another thing that I really felt is the way that
Morgan was reacting to their relationship as well was something
that really clicked for me. Obviously, she's a sister. She's like,
Did you just call him Babe? Like the babe bit,
like the pet names. Like when you start dropping into
that part. And then also, I think that we start
to see them developing a bit.
(09:24):
More as a couple, once we meet Dr. Andy, because
they're clearly in this very fresh point and like, it's
like Morgan's trying to show them, you know, it's a
family thing. It's like, I'm in this brand new relationship.
You two are like the old hats now, and we're
kind of, we start to get that comparison of the
two relationships
between them.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
With Morgan picking up on the babe thing, I think
that's really interesting when your closest.
Friends or family members go, Hmm, I've never seen that
side of you. Like, it's that strange behavior that we're
talking about before, or not strange, but just like different.
People are going, Is that really you? Like you would
never call someone babe.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah. It's also interesting that, you know, they've really put
a hard line in, I don't want you talking about
our relationship on the pod. And their whole podcast was
about them like being pretty open about sex and relationships.
And
You know, you see Joanne shut down and go, We're not, no,
we're not, no, we're not. No. I, I quite like
it when Noah jumps in, though, and tries to to
love that scene as well. It is a thing where like,
(10:23):
your worlds are colliding and Joanne and Noah are very
different in how they show up in the world and
how they express themselves. And it is interesting seeing her
trying to reconcile that and still do the podcast, but
keep her life private for Noah's sake.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And do you think that's also part
Of why Morgan's choosing certain pursuits in her romantic life
as well to kind of make up for
Speaker 2 (10:45):
in episode 3, when she brought Dr. Andy around, I
was like, this is a joke, like she's just found
this guy on the street.
But then we get the therapist's bombshell, and I was like,
What
Speaker 1 (10:58):
the
Speaker 2 (10:58):
hell? It was such a great comedic moment when everybody
finds out that they met at the therapist's office. She goes, I, well,
we met in the waiting room? No, not in the
waiting room. Oh, you met in the car park, the
car park. No, a little bit, oh, the elevator, the elevator. No, no, no,
I was her therapist. Also the scene where Noah and
the whole family are sitting in the sauna, and he's telling,
(11:19):
I feel like that also was a good indication of like.
They have moved past this initial dating phase, because he
is really starting to integrate into her family. They're all
got this little club where they're like, Oh my God,
Morgan's gone insane. She's dating her
therapist.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I think even him getting into the sauna with the family,
among all their trash was really symbolic of him being
OK with the family's baggage and them moving out of
the honeymoon phase. Coming up, we're diving into what I
would say is a controversial creative decision when it comes
to one of the plot lines we saw in season
one that isn't being seen in season two. No, no.
(11:55):
So one of the biggest things we've been speculating about
was what was gonna happen with the Sacha Morgan relationship.
Everyone's been talking about it. There's been think pieces written
about it, and now we finally know that they're not
pursuing it. Chelse, what have the creators been saying about
that decision?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
They've actually said quite a lot. I feel like they dropped,
or not even hints. They really told us where that
dynamic was gonna go this season. So Erin Foster has
said straight up that they were gonna wrap up that weird, like,
is it romantic sort of storyline. She said that we
want to see more Esther, which, true, I think we
all want to see a more fleshed out version of Esther.
And she's also said that we can still explore the
(12:32):
connection between these two. Obviously, they get along really well
and there's something really special between them, but they can
do that without making Morgan a quote unquote, home wrecker.
I know, and I look, I said this last step,
but I was so upset to see that. Like, it
was really disappointing to me because I didn't want to
see a happy marriage breakup. But the chemistry between Morgan
and Sasha is so palpable. Like you can see it.
(12:55):
And I think what potentially happened is during that filming
of season one, it was maybe an unexpected chemistry that
they didn't expect them to be so sparky. They saw
reactions and they've gone, Whoop, cause I do feel like
in season two, these 1st 3 episodes, particularly, we're seeing
a real backtracking. They have pulled it right back. And
(13:18):
the first time that we see that is like in
the bedroom. But
Does Timothy Simmons, who plays Sasha, say anything about Sasha's journey? Yeah,
I think very similar things. So he also dispelled any
rumors that they were gonna get together, and he said, quote,
I would say that it's not particularly funny to break
up a family. They're all in agreement that we don't
need to see that. You know, we wanna see Sasha
(13:39):
and Morgan on screen, but just not in that way. Yeah,
I really that first, you know, with.
up that it's the season with them in the bedroom
of one of the funniest scenes. And the fact that
that Sasha and Morgan are sitting on the bed and
Esther's like, she was like a school teacher, like waving
her finger at them being like, What have you naughty
kids been doing? Sasha's like, are we gonna have a threesome?
(14:01):
I'm thinking, are they?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, I mean, fair question, I thought.
I just want to say that I'm in no way
prepared to have a threesome right now. This is not
where I thought this was gonna go, and I could
do it. In what world do you think this is
the threesome I would initiate? First of all, neither of
you would be involved. I agreed. Wait, I wouldn't be there.
This is not a threesome.
(14:24):
This is just a conversation. Well, most threesomes probably start
with a conversation. I have literally never started a threesome
with a conversation, but you don't have to lay down ground.
How many threesomes have you been in? I want to
talk more about Esther because I feel like her character
is being developed a lot more and we're getting more
of a three dimensional version of her.
Yeah, Chelse, what do you reckon about this characterization and
(14:46):
this growth that we get to see of
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Esther? I mean, I do think they've done some backtracking
since last season with Sasha and Morgan, but also with
Esther and her relationship with Sasha. I feel like this season,
it's a much more loving, much more fun, much more
balanced relationship between the two. Is she fun?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
She wants to
Speaker 2 (15:06):
be to be fun. I think Esther's fine. I think
she's so fun. There was definitely a lot of backlash
on season one of the characterization of Esther, and people
thought it was a one dimensional characterization of a Jewish woman.
So I think that they've really redone a little bit,
given her some more depth, and she's actually become one
of my favorite characters this season. And she's definitely
(15:28):
Going through some flux and changes in identity for herself. But,
you know, we really see her come into this group
a little bit more. And I love seeing Morgan, Joanne
and Esther on the bleachers. Like that scene's great. I
loved the scene of them in the bedroom. Like, she's
just giving us a bit more
punch.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
That moment where she says it 2 or 3 times.
Times actually, in the first couple of episodes of the
I can be fun. I found that really piercing, and
I think it revealed a lot about her having to
be the person who's kind of holding the relationship together,
or doing the boring stuff while Sasha gets to be
the class clown and be the fun one. And I
don't know, that was something that just really struck me
(16:10):
as quite powerful.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I might be talking more here generally about, like, as
a mom.
You kind of become the manager of the household, right?
So you're managing all of this. And I actually heard
this thing, it's like, when you ask a kid how they,
they know their mom loves them, it's, she makes my food,
she does the washing, da, da, da, da. When you
ask a dad, it's, he spends time with me. So,
and that I think is a very much a key
(16:33):
thing in like, as an older woman, when you've got
kids or you're in that sort of home environment, that
is a very key thing for women.
And to have to run the household. And Sasha's a
bit of a weirdo,
Speaker 1 (16:44):
you know? He's fun and flirty and whatever, but it's like, yeah,
but that would be annoying if
Speaker 2 (16:49):
you had to. Someone's got to hold it together and
keep it together. be fun too. I love her when she's,
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I actually love her so
much.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
You can see that Sasha's like, I've maybe screwed up
and I'm now going to be a very good husband
because he definitely pulls away. He's like, Do you know
what I love? Esther goes, whore number one.
And whore number 2. See, she is fun. She's so fun.
I love it. I love that she calls her whore
#2 to her face. So full on. I also love
(17:20):
when Morgan's like, I haven't seen you be fun, but
I'm looking forward to it. I know. That was so great.
But you know, we see this rekindling of Esther and
Sasha's relationship. He leaves the basketball game halfway through, he
just picks up her hand and takes it.
leave. They go take a gummy together on the bench together.
I would say that's pretty fun.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
That's pretty fun. Mid-game.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah. But they made it very clear that they don't
want this Morgan and Sasha relationship, but we'd still want
to see a friendship. So like, beyond episode 3, do
we think that there's going to be more of this? Like,
are they gonna be more friendly together? I think
I think it'll feel more platonic, but I also think
what we will see is Esther really come into that
(18:00):
dynamic and her kind of get to know Morgan on
a different level. And I think that will kind of
make it feel less like these two are sneaking around
or less like there's something weird going on, and Esther's
kind of excluded from that. Yeah, she's more aware of
that relationship rather than, like, it's like she's.
Not allowing them to be friends, but she's now in
(18:21):
on the friendship rather than it being hidden from her.
I think what made it feel like some sort of
like illicit affair was the fact that she didn't know
that they were texting and having conversations. So I think
it's much more out in the open this time. I
hated texting in the bathroom. I said that last episode,
but I really, it made me feel so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Phone calls were a lot. She's inserting herself into that
dynamic now, and I wonder if it'll be a case
of like, enemies to lovers with their friendship. Like, I
wonder if it goes the whole hog. And
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I
would love that if Morgan and Esther were to become
best friends. Like that's the duo we need to see.
I know, I love that. I think Morgan, again, is
just such a fun.
Fun character. I just love her, her sass and her
quick wit and her no fucks attitude. And I think
that we really see that again in episode 2, where
(19:08):
at the basketball game, and we get Bea.
Queen Bea walking in, strutting in. What an iconic. She
is like my favorite. She's such a queen. Just that
strength and, again, it's, it's kind of similar to Morgan
in that no fucks Given, and we see that in
that bathroom scene where they're both in the bathroom. You know,
(19:28):
Morgan, I don't like you, but I respect you.
I'm sorry
Do you respect me?
Yes, well, a little.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I
Speaker 2 (19:37):
admire that you don't give a
Speaker 1 (19:38):
shit
Speaker 2 (19:38):
about what other people think.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Me, I care what people think. I think that I
don't like you, but I respect you as her saying,
I see myself in you.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And so I understand your type, but I know that
you're gonna be hard
work.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
And what I really love about that scene, there's one
line that Bina says that really, really struck me. It's
when Morgan's obviously just had her feelings hurt by something
Lenny said.
And Bea says, the reason what he said hurt your
feelings is not because he thinks that. It's because you
think that. And I just thought that was so profound.
I feel like I've had a therapist, you know, say
that to me before? That hit me so deep. Do
you know what the, the thing about this show, and
(20:16):
the reason
I'm so excited that we're talking about it on Watch
party is because it does have these really incredibly profound
and like great moments, and there is so much more
to it than just like this fluffy rom-com. Like there's
a lot of depth to it. That line, I swear
every time.
I feel like someone's slighting me. It's because that's how
(20:37):
I feel about it because you're insecure about something. Yes,
Speaker 1 (20:40):
it's so piercing when there's someone holds the mirror up
like that and you go, they're really mean, but yes,
as Bena says, it's because you believe it to be true.
Another bright idea from Bena is for Sasha and Esther
to have another baby, which I think, I mean, we've
just discussed how she's
Speaker 2 (20:58):
she's so
Speaker 1 (20:59):
good. She's so rogue. But, you know, Esther's saying, I
want to be the fun one. We've only got 5 more.
And then we're empty nesters. Why would she want to
go through all of that 1518, 20 years again?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
It's such a man thing to say, because all of
the emotional labor falls on women, and I feel like
it's a very broken record thing to say because it's,
it's so obvious these days. But when Bena suggests that,
and Sasha's like, Oh yeah, maybe. Also, I just have
to really touch on how Bena just has a key
to their house. It just like walks in. boundaries. Sasha, Sasha.
(21:31):
We're gonna need that key back and she goes, No.
He's like, OK, fantastic. But yeah, like Esther's like, this
is the worst possible thing for our relationship. And
Speaker 1 (21:43):
he's going, No, band-aid, baby. Yeah, but like,
Speaker 2 (21:45):
look how cute the kid is. And it's like, yeah,
but you don't have to carry the
Speaker 1 (21:49):
bloody thing. I think she replies with, it's not that cute.
And then that has so much subtext of everything you're saying, because,
you don't have to be pregnant, you don't have to
be the default parent, you don't have to have the
emotional mental load, yes, of it all.
I just thought that was a really fascinating and quirky
idea from our friend Bena.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yes. OK. So, the Sasha and Morgan thing is out
the door now, and we've got 3 key relationships. Joanne
and Noah, Esther and Sasha, and Morgan and Doctor Andy.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Coming up next, we are unpacking the theme that I
would say is at the crux of the series, and
it's also one that some of us here can personally
connect to. No.
So one of the key things we're seeing in these
3 episodes, particularly episode 3, I would say, is not
just the differences between their faith, but also the way
their family dynamics play out. What did you guys think
of the scene where Joanne's finally invited to Shabbat? Kisenya?
Speaker 2 (22:44):
It
is so stark. This episode is just such a contrast
in family dynamics. And, you know, we see her going
to Shabbat dinner.
It's this beautiful, ornate house. Bea is obviously at the
head of the table. I think there is nothing accidental
about that at all, cause she is the boss. So
(23:05):
she's sort of there, she's the matriarch, she's lording over
them all for their Shabbat dinner. And, you know, this
is a very important time for them. They do this
every Friday night. This is the time that they come together,
and Joanne picks up her phone.
Now, I just want to preface this saying, I am
not Jewish, none of us are Jewish here. But what
(23:26):
I do know is that Shabbat is supposed to, to
not have any technology. So after sundown, you're not supposed
to like be touching your phone at dinner. So straight away,
Bena goes, What are you doing? You're looking at your phone.
And Joanne says, the craziest thing ever is, Morgan weirdly
thinks it's her mom's birthday on the 6th.
And they're all like, Wait, is it your mom's birthday? Oh, no, no,
(23:47):
it's not today, it's on the other day, da da da.
You're not gonna text your mother on her birthday. Like
they are so shocked. And Noah's mortified. Like, I haven't
said Happy birthday to your mom. I haven't gotten her
a present. We're not doing dinner. Like, what's happening? It's crazy.
And I can so relate to that, you know, that
sort of very family oriented culture. I've come from Cassini
(24:08):
Luca is obviously not an Australian name, but that's like
it's so
Serbian culture, that is, family is the number one thing, like, very, very,
very important is the tight knit family unit. So the
idea of not messaging my mother until 6 p.m. on
her birthday is horrifying, like, absolutely unheard
Speaker 1 (24:25):
of. And I think too, just the fact that they
were so flippant that. Is it today or is it
in 2 days? Like that also just sent shivers down
their spines.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
It was funny seeing Noah's dad. He just couldn't, the
whole dinner, get his mind around it. He's like,
6 p.m. like the the conversation's moved on and he's like,
it's close
Speaker 1 (24:42):
of business, mate. What are
Speaker 2 (24:43):
you doing? They're so shocked and Joanne's like, Oh, well,
I guess like sometimes we used to go get doughnuts
and I don't know. And Noah goes, Well, oh, we're
planning a birthday party. And Joanne reluctantly agrees to do this.
And I think that, again, we get very, very stark differences.
Tell
Speaker 1 (25:02):
us, what did you think about Noah's reaction when he
realized that
Not only did Joanne not quite understand or remember when he's,
when her mom's birthday is, but also hadn't organized anything.
I mean,
Speaker 2 (25:12):
honestly, I relate to that. I was a bit mortified
to hear that, that whole thing going down, but I
think it's interesting to see someone like Noah who's grown
up with such strong traditions and now dating someone who
they really didn't grow up with a whole lot of
traditions or they haven't really held on to them.
And him projecting what he thinks a family should be
onto her and be like, No, we need to celebrate
(25:34):
your mum's birthday. You guys used to get doughnuts, like,
we should do that. We should start instilling these traditions
into your family because that's what he grew up thinking
family life should be like. Yeah, and I think we're
looking here, and I know we've spoken about the honeymoon phase,
but we are also looking at the fact that they're
still kind of, they're not skirting around this, her converting.
You know, he lost his job as head rabbi because
(25:55):
of his relationship with the Gentile. Like, the reason we
meet Big Noah is because he, he lost that because
of his relationship, and he sacrificed that. Then he finds
out that she's not quite ready to convert. She's waiting
for a sign. She understands that it's a really big deal.
So we've got this tension here of faith being such
Core part. And I think very much intertwined with faith
(26:19):
is culture, and particularly in something like a Jewish faith.
Jewish faith and Jewish culture become really intertwined. I can
relate to that because in Serbian culture, faith and culture
are also incredibly intertwined. So even if you aren't particularly religious,
the cultural traditions that are so tied into that,
They're very, very closely related. And I think that Noah's like, Well,
(26:41):
if you're not converting yet, then we need to make
sure the values, these core values that I have, you
also share. So I'm gonna make you do this for
your mother. Yeah, it's a big theme this season, I think,
them grappling with values, lifestyle, family, bringing together of your life,
and finding that there's actually quite a lot of conflict
there because they grew up so differently.
(27:02):
It's interesting. It's definitely interesting. And and the fact that
Joanne's mom's like, I don't even really wanna be, like,
she's like, what are you what are we doing? Like,
can I go? Like I don't wanna be. She's being
held hostage on her own birthday. I was like, let's
have fun.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
She's like, I would like a day to myself, thanks.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Joanne's doing this to please him, to, to make him
happy because she knows that I think she, she obviously
feels a bit of guilt for him losing.
This big role, Bea is obviously furious, and his whole career,
that's this thing that he has wanted for so long,
and he's such a little golden retriever that he doesn't
like say anything. But we know that this is such
(27:41):
a huge part for him. And when you're looking at relationships,
and a lot of the times, if you're from like
a very culturally strong background, that shared value and culture.
Is often so integral to making a relationship work. Chelsea,
I know that you've got like sort of two quite
different cultures in your life as well. Yeah, I think
(28:05):
it's interesting. One thing that I really, I just personally
resonate with being from an immigrant household is this idea,
which is very prevalent in episodes 1 to 3.
The idea of suppression versus expression. It's really Noah versus
Joanne in that regard, where Joanne is very open, very honest,
and really believes in airing out what you're feeling, whereas
(28:28):
Noah keeps it all very close, and he has a
hard time asking for help, reaching out. He has a
hard time opening up about feelings of frustration or anger.
And I think
That's not uncommon in a lot of immigrant households where
feelings of frustration, anger, sadness feel almost shameful. We're like, no, no, no, hush, hush.
We shouldn't be talking about this with everybody else. Yeah,
(28:49):
I didn't have any food. You're not allowed to complain
about that. I used to walk to school. Oh my God. Chelsey.
I got that so much. I used to have to
make clothes out of like tents, like, OK.
I get it. But I'm allowed to be sad that
I didn't, that boy doesn't like me. 100. And we
see like episode 2 after the basketball game where, you know,
(29:10):
they're around the tree and Noah finally kind of lets
up about how he's feeling about not getting senior rabbi
and being resentful of Big Noah and everything he's just
pent up and been feeling, and it's just a moment
of release for him. And I think throughout the season,
we really
that kind of push and pull between Joanne and Noah
and kind of finding a middle ground of their personalities,
I guess, and how they were raised.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Definitely. And I think that also links back to the
honeymoon phase and then starting to let their guard down
a little bit. And that happens when you're enmeshing your family,
their family, the traditions. It's all kind of coming to
a head in this episode 3, I think. I think
the suppression and expression piece that you spoke about, Chelsea,
is also kind of linking back to
(29:53):
What we loved about Noah in season one, he was
this kind of idyllic, perfect dream boat guy that we
all wanted to date, but it was also like, what's
beneath that? And now we're starting to see a little
bit more, which I think is really important, especially if
these two want to get out of the honeymoon phase.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, for sure, and I think like it is interesting
talking about like my own experience with marrying. I'm, my
family's from Hong Kong and my partner's Sri Lankan.
And we both have very strong cultures and that coming together,
there's always things, there's, I mean, to be honest, they're
both Asian cultures, so there is a bit of overlap,
but there are just things that once you're together, you
realize like, wow, OK, that is like starkly different and
(30:32):
something we need to work through. The first thing that
really comes to mind is just Sri Lankan culture in
general is very like
Big communities, very tight knit in that way. Hong Kong culture,
not that there aren't strong community ties, but the community's
a little bit more insulated and smaller. And so when
we went to plan our wedding, that was like a
big culture shock, where he would bring me a list
(30:54):
and be like, These are all the people that we're like,
genuinely close to. I barely know anyone beyond my like
first cousins. Like, that's kind of where it stops when
it comes to extended family. And so when we're trying
to curate this guest list, there's just a lot of
back and forth and
It was interesting to say the least. I, I feel you, um,
I had people at my wedding that I didn't know. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
What I wanna ask you guys based off that is,
think back to those moments where you were at the
first family dinner when your partner came in Casenya. What
was it like, cause you were the Noah in that scenario.
What's he feeling? What's he going through when Joanne picks
up the phone? Like, if your partner did something that
was a bit out of character.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
My parents were a bit more like, I didn't have
quite have a beer in our family. My dad was
always very, was a bit cold to my dad in
probably the first year.
But 16 years later he's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
They've warmed up,
Speaker 2 (31:42):
he's
warmed up. I also think like I also don't really
have a *** in my immediate family, but I'm sure
you know lots of ***. I also do like I
think that character is so well written in the sense that.
I know so many, like, women in my life who
are abina, that like iconic, very strong, very strong-willed, very blunt,
(32:03):
but just like an icon. Yeah, she's an icon, queen.
I also think it's really lovely to see an interfaith,
intercultural relationship play out on such a massive scale on
this huge mainstream Netflix show. And not just like, oh yeah,
they're together, they lived happily ever after. No, like the
real complexities and challenges of making that work and how
(32:24):
that can be.
really difficult, and I think a lot of people could
really relate to that. Yeah, and we'll definitely see this
developing as the season goes on.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Thank
you so much for listening to Watch Party today. Don't worry,
that's not all we have in store for you. There's
heaps still to come. So make sure you are following
the Watch party feed so you don't miss our coverage
of the rest of the season. Our next deep dive
is into episodes 4 to 6 of the season, and
that is coming to your watch party feed soon. You
won't want to miss it. Chelsea Casena, can you give
(32:52):
me a little teaser on what you're most excited?
that's coming up.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
I'm really excited to see more of Noah's character and
why he might not be the perfect man we think
he is. So I have a theory about how each
character fits into a different category of something, but I'm
gonna leave it there and then you kind of listen
to the next episode to find out what it is.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
What a tease. Watch Party is produced by Monisha Iswarren
and Georgie Page with sound production by Scott Stronick and
video production by Michael Keane. We'll see you back here
to keep unpacking season 2. Bye.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Mhm.
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