August 1, 2025 • 43 mins
In the second hour of the show, the guys talk with Noah Fleischman about NC State's upcoming football season, tell you if they believe the wide receiver room will be able to handle expectations and give you their expectations for Derrick Brown this season.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You were listening to the Wes and Walker Show. It's
the Charlotte game tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
They take on Fau and Fitty asked me where my
cutoff was. I told him I left it at home.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
It's Wes. But what if I tell you I didn't.
Oh No, you're not that smooth. What if I tell
you that I'm warn't it?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Right now?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Getting ready to tell you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Get at four thirty Scott, let's go forty dollars and Walker,
get off the hold Hold no Only On.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Sports Radio ninety two point seven FM w FNC on Friday,
Open off the doors, Let's get off the badad. Welcome back, bumps.
(00:59):
This is the West Walker Show. Sports Radio ninety two
seven w FNZ on a no Rules Friday from the
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dot Com. One call. That's all the Carolina's personal injury lawyers.
We're about to continue and put a boat on the
NC State team week. We're about to have Nord Fleischman on.
(01:21):
But you know what we got to do before we
talk about the wolf pack. We got to hit that
intro found to drop it. Oh okay, all right, wait
a minute. Well, as we said, we're gonna have Nord Fleischman,
beat writer for the wolf Packer and on three you
can follow him at Fleischman underscored, Noah, are we ready
to go? You know, we'll just go ahead and bring inis.
(01:43):
Let's get him in here. So Nord Fleischman, as I said,
beat writer for the wolf Packer and on three, is
joining us to talk about this NC State team. Give
us a little bit of a different perspective. Noah, how
you doing, my man? Good?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
How are you guys doing?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
We are doing great. So we went through the schedule
yesterday and the vibes are not high in here for
the NC State wolf Pack. We had one of us
chose them to go six and six, that's my man,
Walker Mail and then Flounder and I had them going
five and seven, missing a bowl game. I think they'll
be better, but I think that their schedule. Man, it's tough,
(02:21):
very nondescript roster that we have here. Are we out
of our minds?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah? I think I think that's the floor of this team.
I think five and seven is the floor. So I
don't think he got as far off. I mean, the
first half the schedule it's just that tough the back
half though. I mean, that's that's a gauntlet with with
Notre Dame and Berchrip to Miami in there too.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
So what are the vibes about this team? What do
you think about this roster as they are now in
training camp heading towards the season.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, definitely. You know, last year was not the year
they wanted to have. I think they lost four to
one score games, went six and seven, you know, lost
the Military Bowl, and you know, things weren't great. But
you know, the thing ABU NC State is so interesting
is that's only the third losing season they've had under
Dave Darren Is going to year thirteen, and the other
two they came back one eight games, so you don't
count them out. They kind of like them situation. They're
picked to finish tempt the SCC. They like to do
(03:09):
the data team, so this is an interesting spot for
them to be rosterwise, though. The return a lot on
offense defenses is really big question marks of what they're
going to do. They replaced the entire secondary place, the
linebacker place, a couple of bats of the seed line,
so we'll see what happens. I think this is a
team that might score you know, thirty forty points a
game to be able to consistently win.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
No whata Fly has been joining us here on Western
Walker talking about NC State's upcoming football season. Noah, what
did they fix what happened last year? Are you comfortable
with what they've done in the offseason to say, yeah,
they did fix what went want?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
What went wrong? Excuse me? Last year?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I think so because when you look at you know,
losing four one to four games isn't great. They were
one of the worst scoring offenses in the first half
in college football last year and one of the best
in the fourth quarter. So it's kind of one of
those things where they were really slow starting teams, made
a change of offense as coordinator and you know, promoting
their quarterbacks. Coach Kurt ropers as to the offensive coordinator,
he doesn't called play since twenty seventeen at South Carolina.
(04:05):
But I think they're really you know, confident what he
can do. And they have a software quarterback and CJ. Bailey,
who was thrown into the fire last year, played really well.
He was one of the best true freshman quarterbacks in
the country, you know, outperforming you know, Dylan Royola and
DJ Lagway and in a few stat categories. So it
really shows a promising thing for that and he was
kind of thinking he was a redshort last year, got
thrown in with with Christian McColl's concussion. So if he
(04:26):
can continue moving forward, he got better and better every
week last year. If he can continue that this season,
I think this offense has chance to kind of carry
the team little bit.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
No, we had a conversation about what the ceiling is
for CJ. Bailey, whether he could be an All acc performer.
What do you think the ceiling is for NC State's QB.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, I think last year he is among the you know,
one of the best true freshmen. I think now it's
kind of taking that in moving forward. I've talked to him,
you know, multiple times this offseason, and he seems really,
you know, content on you know, growing. He's not he's
not complacent. He's a guy who played at shamanad Madonna
and Miami. Jeremiah Smith was one of his top playmakers.
They're too, so he obviously knows how to play at
the lead talent. Now he's trying to channel that year
(05:03):
at ed NC State. Honestly, I think he's a guy
that could be a nonbo mentioned you know all these
hec kind of performer this year just with how he
can play. If he plays the way he did when
he was doing well last year, there were some freshman mistakes.
Who expect out anybody, But I think they're going to
clean it up kind of going into this year and
they have, you know, first few weeks. They're an opportunity
for him to get rolling before they really hit that
tough part of the schedule.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
No, what thoughts on the receiving cores and is there
a guy in this group that is going to break
out in your opinion?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, you know, they didn't bring in a quarter receiver
in the spring, which kind of shows you know what's
going on. They lost two receivers and in k except
Cianos the text A and M and the card Collins
to Louisville and they didn't bring it on us in.
They're confident he's got a lot of young receivers. You
got Wesley Grimes, he's the old one of the bunch
as a senior former Wake Force transfer. He ran a
four two four forty this offseason. They're expecting some good
(05:50):
things at him. I think the guy to picked breakout though.
I'm really a fan of Keenan Jackson. He played a
lot last year as a freshman, was once committed to
North Carolina before they flipped him. He's a guy to
play did really well. And another guy to look at
is Charrell Anderson. He's a guy from greens Throw another
highly ranked you know, guy coming out of high school.
Played a lot as the freshman last year. So I
throw these young guys into the fire. Year ago, they
kind of took their their bruises and now they hope
(06:11):
that that pays off this year.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
A sophomore, Hollywood Smothers is a guy who really helped
this offense at night down the stretch of this season.
What do you see for him? Is he going to
have that tremendous breakout here that a lot of us expect,
myself included.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I do you know, he's a Charlotte guy and he
you know, first half the season he's kind of running
back to running back three for most of the year.
Helt he dealt for the first six games, kilt an
injury in there, missed a couple of games, and the
last half of the season he was awesome. You know
he ended up finishing that the leading rusher, only really
starting six games with an amazing guy. He's one of
the most last guys on the team, maybe one of
the loosest guys in the ACCS for thirty four missed
(06:49):
tackles a year ago. I expect him to. I think
he can get close to one thousand yards this season,
as do the every day starter are going to lean
on him a lot, and I think he's got a
chance to become one of their first thousand yard backs
in like over five years.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Noah Fli's been joining us on WESN Walker talking about
NC State during team week Sports Rady ninety two seven WFNZ.
All right, let's talk Dave Dorin, because Noah, if they
have another season where they don't perform up to expectations. Really,
when we were going through the schedule breakdown yesterday, it
was the way we had them at six and six
and five and seven. We all had them, I believe,
winning four games in the first half yeap form and
(07:23):
then either winning only one or two at most in
the second half. If they falter as much as we
say they're going to in the second half of the season,
what would that mean for Dave Doran's job security.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, he's under concert through twenty twenty nine. They just
spent a lot of money to make a coach and
change in the men's basketball side of things. So it's
kind of a situation if you want to buy him
out right that a few years he's due to make
five point six two five million this year, it goes
up I think one hundred and fifty thousand every year
after that. It's just kind of one of those situations.
I think if they fall and go five and seven,
(07:55):
four and eight, I think it's more likely right now
that he would walk away then he would get fired.
I he's kind of one of those guys. He's told
me before he doesn't want to coach to be sixty five.
He's fifty three. He wants to know enjoy retirement because
his father didn't wasn't able to be. He had all
the timers. I think two years after he retired from
his job. So he's seen that affect his family personally.
(08:16):
So if they falter, it wouldn't be surprised to him
walk away. I wouldn't also to be surprised to see
them give him one more chance, because he's made a
Bowl in ten of his thirteen years. He's consistent winner.
He's been winning his coach in program history. I know
fans aren't too happy with how last year went. He
wasn't then you know, if they do Falter, it's an
interesting situation, but I would air on the side of they,
through corg in the ad, would give him another year
(08:37):
unless he's, you know, just decided to be done with
it himself.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Well, and that's why I wonder if we're in for
a Dave Closson type season where Dave class in excellent
at wake Forest, has all this history of winning, and
then after two back to back years of not winning,
he decides to step away and just get away from it.
Which is why I completely understand that scenario, that picture
that you paint here, Noah, I guess another question for
me is what is the Is the conversation too crazy
(09:03):
around Dorian because this is someone that wins eight nine
games consistently, even before the four and eight season that
they had in twenty nineteen. Yep, there were there. They
were nine and four, nine and four. Like, should we
be giving him a little more grace than what State
fans are giving him?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
I think so. I mean, it's just say, you know,
they only won four games are years ago. They turn
around and they rip off eight nine wins consistently after that.
He's a guy who he's a talent developer and he
likes coaching football. Still. I really asked him, like, why
do you do this? He still likes coaching, likes developing talent.
That's what they do.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
The thing doesn't like is the transfer port of nil
that the new era was kind of the same thing.
They've cased and talked about. Those guys are you know,
really good friends outside of the coaching Commission as well.
So it's kind of an interesting situation to see him
and but I think he deserves grace and credit. This
is a guy who wins eight nine games a year,
and as he stayed a program before he's got there.
You know, you look at their old time record, this
five hundred program. So I think he's been able to
(09:54):
outperform expectations. But now the expectation is you want to
win that ten game, and then he state's only done
that at one time, Philip Rivers did it. So it's
kind of one of those things where yes, you want
to win ten games and make the culturable playoffs, but
is it not attainable than the state. I'm not really sure.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
No. What I want to know what this defense? They
gave up three hundred and ninety two points last season.
What has been the focus? How are they trying to
change things? Especially with Tony Gibson Gum.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, one of the you know, the worst performing seasons
than are Tony Gibson, who was one of the best,
you know, defensive coordinators in the ACC during his tenure there.
Now he's at Marshall as the head coach. They hire
Dj Elliott. He came in you know, used, so he
was at Temple. Is the last time he's defensive coordinator.
He's served time and sewed off the Eagles in their
linebacker room. This is a guy who he's just football junkie.
Him and Dave Dorn have known each other for over,
(10:42):
you know, twenty years. He brings him aggressive file of defense.
They're gonna get after the quarterback. They're going to force pressure.
They're going to try to force the quarterback to make mistakes.
I think that's gonna the biggest thing we're gona see.
It's gonna be an interesting front because you know, Tony
Gibson like to play at three three five. Dj L
is gonna play three four and to show a four
to three. He likes to go back and forth to
make it some hybrid defensive lineman can do both, so
(11:02):
it'll be a totally different looking defense, I think than
what people are customed to. Saint from Empty State. They
are a custom to singions to State defense whole teams,
so you know, not that many points out of them many
yards and if he can get them on that, that's
that track. I think it's positive on if you're one.
A lot of new faces in the defense. I'm not
really sure what to make, you know. East Carolina embarrassed
the defense last year in the bowl game, and now
they get a chance to avenge it. Will they It's
(11:25):
hard to tell her right now.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
No last thing I got for you, man, what is
the game on the schedule that you feel like will
really swing the balance of how this season goes.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
I'll give it too. I'll give you the like. The
hot take I have is Game one against East Carolina.
You win the game, you feel good, you know, everything
is normal. They lose East Carolina to be back to
back losses to the Puyers, a team that you know,
East Carolina views them as a rival. NT State fans
don't really view it East Carolina's arrival. So you lose
them twice in a row. That could, you know, send
the season going downhill really quick. Another one that to
keep an eye on is Notre Dame. I mean, you're
(11:55):
gonna go play a college blall playoff, you know, containing team.
I just want to see how they can take a
stack up. That's the first really true tough road game
of the season. I really see if they can go
in there and in KP if they come out to win,
that's you know, really unexpected. But they go out of
there with us, you know, twenty thirty four loss, and
it kind of shows you where they stack up.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
That was Noah Fleischman, beat writer for The wolf Packer
and on three. You can follow him on x at
Fleischman Underscore. Noah Man. We appreciate the time, man, Thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, thanks, guys, appreciate it all. Right.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
When we come back, folks, we go back to Carolina
Panthers talk. Is the wide Receiver room ready for the
expectations that are coming? On Sports Radio ninety two seven
WFZ and just like that.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Folks.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
The Wes and Walker Show rolls on here on Sports
Radio ninety two seven w f n Z. Make sure
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Make sure you do that. And we got to give
a shout out Menhill Dan. We just got our shirts
(13:02):
in on Summer League Championship shirts with the front and
back design. I'm loving it, so Menhiale Dan, shout out to.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
You greatly appreciate Yeah, thanks a ton, Dan, I appreciate
giving me a shirt that is probably going to hold
up in the washer and dryer. And like the fifty
dollars shirt, I don't know if you guys know this,
I actually spent fifty dollars on a shirt yesterday. It
was fifty bucks and I bought multiple so you can
only imagine how much I was charged yesterday at the
(13:32):
pop up shop. I had a little problem with it,
which I did talk about. If you didn't hear it,
then I can give you a whole other rent and
some of the bigger segments that we have. Shout out
to Minhill Dan, great guy. Really appreciate your support of
the station, and then sending in some of the shirts
with great material by the way, little dry fit material. Yes,
I was on the front and the back. I'm just
(13:53):
saying Minhil Dan knows ball. That's pretty good. He definitely
does no ball.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
And getting back to talking ball, Carolina Panthers in training camp,
and we know that the stars of this camp, the
ones that we hear the most about, are the guys
that get to catch the touchdowns and do their chipping
dip ads. Like I like to say, but this wide
receiver room, we've been talking about it since the beginning
of camp, since the beginning of OTA's no matter how
you want to slice it, the receivers have been a
(14:18):
hot topic of conversation. And so with them having the
young guys with Adam Thielen being the OG, and then
I guess you could add Hunter Renfro into that group,
but he hasn't made the team. He's out there fighting
and battling like everybody else. But I think with young
players they have to grow in this league. In excel
and Jalen Cocher have already put together their rookie seasons
(14:40):
and so now this is a group that has expectations.
And the Charlotte Observer wrote an interesting article about Jayleen
Cocher written from Alex Zeitlow, and he was talking about
how Jalen Coker is playing with house money, and he
said in the article quote like my mom says, I'm
playing with house money. It is just a blessing. I'm
(15:01):
really fortunate I get to go out there and do
my thing on the field. And so that type of
mentality for Jalen Cocher is what helped him make the
roster because he's going to come out and just ball
out of control because he's an undrafted free agent. That's
what he's here to do. And I feel like for
a lot of the rookies, the young guys with not
a lot of expectations on this Carolina Panthers team. But
(15:23):
now you have some pundits talking playoffs, talking about this
team could be a surprise team. And so I think
it's interesting now to put on that young psyche that
those guys have. Are they ready for expectations because they're
going to be heavily scrutinized because of all the hypes
they've gotten, and it kind of shows you the contrast
that it can be. You can be everybody's darling one minute,
(15:46):
but if you don't come out and play up to expectations,
then a lot of people are going to have a
lot of scrutiny for you.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Definitely have expectations surrounding Jalen Coker coming into the year
because while people I think we're proven right in him
being the favorite in training camp. Oh man, this guy
went undrafted, but Steve Smith likes him. That means I
like him and what he was able to accomplish at
holy Cross. I'm surprised that he wasn't drafted and now
he's with us. He was always the training camp darling.
(16:13):
It's one of the rare times that we saw the
fruits of being a training camp darling transitioned into the
regular season because once he was playing, he was the
better wide receiver. This is the wild This was the
surprising thing that happened last year. Jalen Coker was a
better wide receiver last year than xavierly Get. I don't
know how many arguments that you could provide at the
table to say Xcel was better than Coker. They were
(16:34):
on the field. You looked at Cocher and said he
was the better guy. Does that continue? Because you might
look at Excel with the forty time, with the way
that he played at South Carolina, he was an absolute
beast with the game Cocks. You might say, well, this
is the guy that has the higher potential. But if
he doesn't do it this year, Wes, then people, I
think will start saying, I thought I saw little Jonathan
(16:56):
Mingo in XCEL. I thought I saw that and it
never materialized. Year never got to see him on that
positive trajectory. You're right, there's a lot of expectations now,
maybe more so than what we had with some of
the surrounded guys. Excel had him. We want to see it.
I'm saying, this receiving court is a room. No, no,
but no, you're You're not wrong at all. Yeah, I
totally agree that. Now, if we're going to say that
(17:18):
this room is packed, stacked, we're ready to roll, then
you got to perform like it.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, And each one of them have expectations on him
to different degrees. When you look at Tetoroa, he's got
heavy expectations because he was the number eight pick of
the draft, and he's supposed to be the crown jewel
of this receiving room. Excel has all the expectations because
he was a first round pick last year. No matter
if you want to say, oh, it was at the
bottom of the first round, there's still a one in
(17:44):
front of his name when they put what round that
he was drafted in. And then the offseason where he's
been everywhere. He's been living like a superstar this offseason,
and there are going to be a lot of people
who are going to be expecting him to play like one.
Jalen Coca again, I think he probably has the lead
the amount of expectations because I think some people expect,
you know, for that glass slipper not to necessarily fit
(18:05):
anymore because he's an undrafted free agent. But then there
are a lot of people that do like what he
brings to the table. Adam Thieling been there, done that.
Then you go to Jimmy Horn. He's been garnering buzzz
every single day because of how fast he looks. People
are gonna expect him to get out there and be
able to be a big play caliber receiver out there
as well, and then Hunter Renfro I would say too.
(18:27):
You know, he's kind of off the hook right now.
But I think as a group, this whole receiving corps
has expectations on him, and it will be interesting to
see how each one of them handles said expectations. And
so with that said, do you feel like that Adam
Thilano is still the number one option by default? It's tough.
I think yes.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
T mac might have something to say about that, just
because he is going to play the X and he
is a top ten pick. I look at thelan's target
share the first two games of last year. It was
four targets against the Saints, it was three targets against
the Chargers. He had four against the Raiders on that
long touchdown catch that he had from Andy Dalton, but
also on that touchdown catch, he got hurt and he
(19:07):
didn't play anymore. And so until actually Week twelve against
Kansas City that was his first game back.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Missed a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
It's tough to figure out if he would eventually have
surpassed Deontay Johnson, because Deontay, I'm sure he would have.
But Deontay at the beginning of the season, he was
the number one target, right, THELAN did not come into
last year as your number one guy. That was Deontay.
So if THELAN is in his last year, do you
just automatically put t Mac as the wide receiver one?
(19:36):
I think if you wanted to change the question and say,
is THELAN the guy that you trust the most? Still,
I think the answer to that question is yes. And
if we answer yes to that, Bryce probably does too
with the rapport. But does THELEN come in as the
guy that's the most targeted, the guy that you see
targeted and have to have its situations. That's where I
(19:56):
think it's a little iffy. I think for the most part,
I would still say yes, THELAN the guy.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, I would say so, just because of the fact
of the trust factor that he would have, being the veteran,
knowing this playbook inside and out, being the teacher of
the youngins in that group. And I think he's just
the guy that Bryschungk's going to depend on. When you
talk about a player that plays the style of football
that bry Young plays, He's that cerebral computer back there. Quarterback.
He's going to hit the guy that gets open first.
(20:23):
You know, if feeling is the first look and he
gets open, he's going to hit him. But even still,
he knows that he can count on a guy like that.
When you talk about Bryschanng, I wouldn't necessarily consider him
a classic dropback passer because he does have a capability.
He does have enough speed to get out of the
pocket and make things happen. But if you talk about
the cruxt of his game, it is the crux of
his game. Excuse me, he is a drop back passer,
(20:44):
and those guys are always going to show a lot
of love to the guys who know how to get
open and know where to be.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Okay, So if you look at Thelan's target share the
last four weeks, so against Tampa Bay and Philadelphia, he
had ten and eleven and then seven six all the
way through so seven six six six. Oh, get away
from that number, but that was the way. That was
the target share that he got each of the last
four weeks. Looking at Cocher, Cocher had six four two seven,
(21:11):
So a little behind Thelan, but kind of into that range. Uh,
Like I think t Mac. Do you think t Mac
leads the team and targets this year? I would say yes,
to that coming into the year. I think you're right
that Thelan's going to be the guy. I think at
the end of the season t Mac leads this team
in targets.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
If I had to gamble right now, I would I
would say no, you would say lamble. I would probably
say Thelan on Cocher.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yes, you would say those two just because you believe
in their talents better or yes, that'd be interesting, which
which means which means if t mac finishes third in targets,
I mean you don't think XL is going to pass
t Mac, right?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I do not, so not at this point.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
So so what we're setting up is some interesting conversations
from you and in terms of where you think t
mac belongs as a player, because if you think Cocher
and Adam Thielen both are ahead of your top ten pick,
then people are going to have questions in the offseason
about what the pick is.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Well, and I think too just the fact that he
is a rookie. We have seen some rookies that come
into this league and absolutely tear it up. We have
seen that. But I think for Tedoroa, the thing coming
in for him, and like I said, he could very
well prove me wrong, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit.
But when you talk about the Knox on him as
far as coming in as a rook fifty to fifty
(22:30):
ball is his specialty. And also to people talk a
lot about the separation issues, and so we know in
the NFL they find out those weaknesses real quick and
they're definitely going to play to those And so that's
why I think it could be interesting for him his
transition into the league. Once the real bullets start to fly,
so to speak.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I do wonder, just do we see a Justin if
not to say the TEAMAK is going to be Justin Jefferson.
That's not what I'm saying. Even though who's your guy
that said he looked like Justin him? It was Greg Cosel.
Is that who you like?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I think?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So yes, I know, and I remember you bring that
SoundBite to the table and saying, Okay, that's high praise
from a guy of trust, which would be great if
he turns into JJ. I think JJ's rookie year. I'm
trying to pull the stats up. I think his rookie
year it was crazy. It didn't start crazy like the
first two weeks. It wasn't absolutely nuts, so from what
I can remember, I think it was like week three,
(23:26):
week four. Then he started to take off, if you
want to look at it, Amon Ross Saint Brown, who
wasn't a first round pick, which maybe that counts as
a part of the equation and trying to project everything
Amon Ross Saint Brown, he took over more so in
the second half of the season.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And so you're right, Justsin Jefferson his first two weeks
only about a combined sixty seventy yes, even y'alls in
the first two weeks, and then he goes one seventy
five and one.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
On three and it's off, right. I wonder if, like
that's why nobody should be writing t mac off if
he struggles to produce the first two weeks. But if
he does, if they're targeting him right away, I think
that will tell us a lot about what we can expect. Like,
I know people are gonna want to see more games
played because you're just gonna wint a larger sample. That
(24:12):
makes total sense. I do not mind if T Matt
gets eight targets right off the rip, saying okay, he's
their number one guy, Like I'll go ahead and put
that take down after week one.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
All right, Going over to the Fandula text line, Bicycle
Hurt says theling is the number one on third and
gotta have it, and then Bagel Guy says, no one
talking about Hunter taking Thielin's job. No, I think Feelin's
put in enough work to this point, and I think
he's a little bit more explosive, a little bit more
adept at getting open than hanter Renfro. I do like
(24:45):
Hunter Renfro. I do think he's got a great shot
to make this team, but I think that the fact
of the time off for him as well. Thilan has
been playing and he has been playing well. So going
over to Excel, we talked about it a little bit earlier,
we brushed across but quiet camp. So far, you hear
a little bit about him here and there. We haven't
(25:05):
gotten any of the hyperbole that we get about some
of the other receivers or some of the other players
in camp, which is kind of what you would want
to hear at this point, and maybe not such that
you're saying, oh, this is the best receiver out here,
but you would love to get some tweets to say, hey,
you know, Exhale looking like a guy that's getting it
(25:25):
in year two or a guy that the light's starting
to turn on for him. Do you feel like that
we should be reading the writing on the wall or
you want to give it a little bit more time?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Oh and I so, I don't know if I describe
it as quiet. I think for me, I think it's
a mixed bag because you do see some touchdown catches.
You do see there's the bad clip that went viral,
and I think when you see the bad clip of
j C. Horn having that inside leverage, having good eyes
and just completely stopping that route, she quick had that
clip that a lot of people commented on, including Chadow Chosenko,
(25:57):
who was providing some advice to Xavier League get after that,
saying hey, you know, do this, try to free up yourself,
and then gave j C. Horns some credit all that
to say, No, I wouldn't say XL's having a bad camp.
And so if he was having a bad one and
he was dropping a bunch of footballs and all of
the plays looked like that one against JC, yeah, I
think the writing would be on the wall and it's
(26:17):
like I want this to happen. I desperately want it
to happen for that guy, I just don't see it.
I don't feel that way. I'm very much still in
let's see how he looks the first few weeks mode.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
That's where I am with Excel. The thing for me
is I just want to see him because the thing
I said when we were watching that clip, which yes,
you know, I'm not the guy that's going to go
off of one clip on social media and make a
blanket statement, but I just feel like he doesn't play fast.
And I felt like that about him last year in
his rookie year, and then seeing clips like that don't help.
You don't see, you know, for a four to three
(26:49):
nine guy at that size. And we talked about how
I said, like THEO, I get it too. As a
Hall of Famer. I'm not trying to compare the two
us say that Excel is like him. I'm just saying
that when you look at the body styles of both guys,
To was much more of a fluid athlete in the
way that he moved, and with XL, I feel like
he kind of lumbers a little bit. And I feel
like that four to three nine might be a little
(27:10):
bit of the by product of the training before the
draft to get you ready exactly for the forty, which
we see that with some players. I just feel like
he doesn't play up to his speed.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Well, I think the forty time it measures point A
to point B distance, right, Like the wiggle isn't there
for Excel, which I think I agree with you, like
I wouldn't describe Excel as fluid. I think some of
those when he catches the football, the getoff is not immediate.
When it's like he catches the football looks way to
tiny bit and then he starts to get going. I
(27:40):
think he's a momentum not zero to sixty and two
point five.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
And see that's exactly to my point because when you
talk about that forty, that's the number one thing they
work on for you when you go to these speed
camps and stuff like that. But is it going to transition?
And I guess to your point where what you're saying
about the get off for god that runs four three nine,
there should be a little bit more get off from him.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Well yeah, yeah, I guess the quickness maybe isn't there.
Like I actually don't know what the shuttle time was
for him. I don't have that. I can look that
up too about some of the agility drills, but he
doesn't look agile. I do think he gets separation downfield
like I think that's actually some of the better traits
(28:23):
that he showed. If you're in on XCEL and you
want specific types as to why XL is going to
work specific things, I think something I like is using
his shoulder to create separation on post routes downfield. That's
something that he was celebrated for even last year. I
think you saw where he was open, just couldn't handle
the football, and that's why he dropped a couple passes downfield,
(28:45):
including the Philadelphia one that is the most egregious. So
I'm we talked about this earlier in the offseason. I
think I'm more so glass half empty with XCEL, like
I'm hoping I'm wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if I
was on him too, But it doesn't mean that I'm
all the way ready to say he's not going to
work out. I think his camp's been fine. I don't
(29:06):
think it's been amazing. I don't think it's been bad.
I think it's been fine, and I think we're still
seeing some diving catches we're seeing some red zone receptions
from him. I'm okay with what I'm seeing from all. Right,
last thing I will ask you when we talk about.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Jimmy Horn Junior, and you know he's been probably he's
right there with Tedtoroa or maybe them most talked about.
If you go all the way back to OTA's, just
how big of a road do we feel like that
he could have as a fourth or fifth receiver, Because
if we talk about Jatavion Sanders taking a step up,
we talk about this receiving corps, if it's Tetoa and
(29:40):
then you know Jayalen Thielen Exhale. I mean, just how
much of an impact do we feel like that he
could have? I mean, will he even have a chance
to have an impact with everybody getting so excited about it.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I'm just I love what I'm seeing. I think he
should make the team. I don't want him off the roster.
Seen this so many times with these wide receivers that
come in and are impressive, and they a oftentimes west
look like that they do. They look like the really
fast guys, the real twitch. He gets some separation. I
can think of a few at the top of my head,
fellow Charlotte forty nine or Austin Duke was one of
(30:11):
these guys that played well in camp and looked fast
and was really quick. I can go to I mean,
my god, before Curtis Samuel really broke out. Second round pick,
so something a little different there, But Curtis was quote
unquote unguardable in training camp. I think also the thing
about Jimmy Horn is when you see him making these
catches a lot of times, the corner is Corny Thornton,
(30:33):
Caleb Evans, these corners that aren't maybe going to make
the team. That's not to say he shouldn't make the squad.
He's torching those guys. It's exactly what you got to
do when you face all the rookie corners. And so
there's no hate at all when it comes to how
productive do I think he's going to be with all
these other receivers on the roster.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Thing's going to be tough. Man.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
I think maybe if he's going to have like a
huge impact on this offense as a receiver, not return guy,
but as a receiver, I think you're probably just looking
at him providing more of an impact when Steeling is
gone and having a year under his belt to get
acclimated to the game.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
All right, when we come back, folks, Derek Brown gets
a ninety five rating and this year's edition of Madden,
what are fair expectations for his return to the field
on Sports Radio ninety two seven WFZ, And just like that, folks,
(31:29):
we return on a no rules Friday. This is the
West and Walker Show. Been a pretty good show so far,
I would say, yeah, solid solid show. Run of the
mill Friday show. All right, So jumping back into the
thick of things talking about the Carolina Panthers and projecting
the twenty twenty five season, and so earlier this week
we talked about Madden ratings, and so at the time
(31:51):
I had looked at a page that claimed to have
had the Madden twenty six ratings, but indeed they did not.
And so from now on, your boys just gonna stick
to the official ratings when they dropped from EA Sports.
But Derek Brown comes in as easily the highest rated
Carolina Panther out of team. Rosters have not been released
(32:12):
just yet, but they have been releasing the top ten
at different positions, to which I also throw in there
that JJ Jansen made the top three. I believe he
was the third highest rated lost snapper. Yeah, and he
was excited about it because he said that normally he
was in the bottom four tight ends in the game
every single year. So he said he was glad to
(32:33):
be at the top of the position.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
But yeah, but Derek Brown sits there. He's third on
the list. But actually, if you want to look at it,
he is second because Chris Jones and Dexter Lawrence each
had ninety sevens. Derek Brown has that ninety five man,
and that puts him in elite territory. And so talking
about expectations for him coming back off of injury, that
(32:56):
ninety five rating, what do you think about that? I
think he's awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I think this is a little more in line with
how I felt about Derek Brown than what I think
the eighty eight was or but I didn't know. I'd
tell you all the time. Madden ratings, a lot of
them don't make sense to me. There's a reason that
people debate them is because they think that they're doing
these guys dirty. Same thing with the two K ratings.
I just don't know what's going to happen. Ninety five
does make sense. And I'm actually a little surprised that
(33:21):
Madden gave Derek Brown a ninety five rating because he
missed all of last year. I just thought, out of side,
out of mine type of stuff, well, we'll dock him
a couple of points because whatever criteria that we manufacture here.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
But they didn't. And I like that. So do I
agree with it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I think this is a pretty solid rating for him
in terms of where he should be positioned among his peers.
I have no issue with Dexter Lawrence and Chris Jones
being the better DT's. I would say those are your
top two interior defensive line in all the football. I
would even have been okay had you had a couple
of other guys above Brown. Yeah, but I love that
(33:59):
Brown is here at the three spot.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, I think that for him, I thought that was
strong because I did not expect that. I thought, probably
at his highest that he would get a ninety, which
would still put him right there where Jalen Carter Queen
City is for the Philadelphia Eagles. He is the ninth
highest rated defensive tack or interior defensive lineman on this
list as well, And so I think the expectations for
(34:23):
his return to the field, if he's able to be
one hundred percent, I think he's going to be one
of those guys you're a little bit on penzonedles with
with that surgically repaired maniscus at a man of that size,
that has to be explosive taking on two blockers in
a lot of circumstances, and so that's going to be
(34:44):
an intriguing part to his season. But I think that
he should come back the form that he was when
he left. And we know that his PFF grade for
the one play or the one game that he played
last year was not great, but it was just the
first game. Everybody played bad. Everybody's to a bad day
at the office. But we know in twenty twenty three
he was certainly one of the best in the business.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
You got something well, no, just the Saints game. God,
I'm sure it's out there. But for a while we
didn't know what play he got hurt on, and that
was kind of wild because he played the entire game.
And then we find out, oh no, he got banged up.
Oh he got more than banged up. He's out for
the year. And so I remember not being able to
remember or figure out what play he got hurt on,
(35:27):
and maybe it was found out a little bit later,
but yeah, kind of a wild injury the way that
it developed when you go back and evaluate him.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, And the thing I think that's interesting is that
this rating certainly pays him a lot of respect, especially
for what he does now is a He's a decent
pass rusher in my opinion, and I think he does
have good balance. If you go back to the twenty
twenty three season, where he did have a ninety run
defense grade and a seventy eight pass rush grade, and
if you look at the pressures, he had forty one
(35:55):
total to twenty seven hurries. And so I looked at
the guys that were ahead of them, ahead of him
and what they did in their twenty twenty three season,
and Dexter Lawrence went sixty five pressures with forty five hurries,
and then Chris Jones his numbers are just outrageous. I mean,
ninety one total pressures, fifty three hurries. I mean, this
guy's basically out there against blocking pads. When you talk
(36:17):
about having that much impact on a game, and so
I don't know that I would give him top three
interior defensive linemen right now, I think he's certainly one
of the best. I think his specialty is against the
run and the pass rush. It's there, but I want
to see a little bit more. But I think if
he can get into the arenas of these other two
(36:40):
and some of the other better pass rushing defensive tackles,
then yeah, and I think you're talking about absolutely one
of those types of players. But really, based off this rating,
if he gets his numbers up there, hell, he might
just get into the ninety nine Cup.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
If he finishes with ten sacks and still gives you
a ninety run defensive rade, that's not nine clubs, that's
ninety nine club status. I don't think it's crazy, Wes.
I mean, he's just not getting home on this stuff.
That's it. The pressures are there for him. And I'll
just go back to twenty twenty three referencing some of
these peers at his position, Derek Brown had the fifteenth
(37:16):
highest interior defensive lineman pass rush grade if you would
have put if you copy and paste that to twenty
twenty four, he's in the top ten. So that's automatically fantastic.
The run defensive grade is elite, elite like we're talking
best of the best. So Derek Brown was ahead and
pass rushing grade of Namdi Mattabuki in twenty twenty three,
(37:40):
and yet Mattabuki was credited with fourteen sacks compared to
Derek Brown's two. It's just one of those weird things
sometimes that happens with these defensive linemen. I wouldn't put
Derek Brown three. I think Cam Hayward has earned a
top three spot with one his entire career. I think
one of the more underrated players that we've seen in
the football the last decade. Just a monster of a man.
And I know you accuse me of agism. No agism here,
(38:03):
I'm putting Cam Hayward up in the top three despite
him being so old. But that guy is just a
freaking monster. I think I would have Derek Brown somewhere
in the top five. I think top three. I'm not
here to be angry about it. I really don't want
to quibble about it. I would have Derek Brown as
a top five defensive tackle. You put him at three. Hey,
this Panthers fan is fine with it.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, do you think that it also speaks to two?
I think how underrated he is as a play. And
I think it's because, you know, he's not necessarily as
charismatic and as out there as some of those other guys.
Even in his pressers, you're not going to get a
you know, he's a jovial guy, but he's not just
super charismatic commercials, this, that, and the third, and I
think it kind of hurts his perception a little bit
(38:41):
where I think he is one of those underrated players
because people just don't really know about him or pay
attention to him like that unless you, as you called
them sickos that pay attention to line play like right one.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
You play a position that requires a little more nuanced
to evaluate than your skill positions. It's people are going
to gravitate more towards offense in general, period, and then
they'll gravitate more towards the sack artists, which Derek Brown
we just talked about, isn't and the defensive players that
you celebrate are going to be playing for teams that
win football games. The Panthers have not been one of
those teams in quite some time, so it's going to
(39:13):
be tough for him to get attention. Love that you
mentioned him being underrated one thousand million percent agree with that.
One stat that I point to is if you look
at the top defensive tackles in the league, and I
need to pin down exactly why this is, but we've
talked about it a little bit. His tackle grade is
second and twenty twenty three in all of football at
his position. Javon Kinlaw the only guy that has a
(39:35):
higher tackle grade, and nobody is mistaking Javon Kinlaw for
a top fifteen defensive tackle in the league, right. Okay,
what's interesting is looking at some of the info there.
It's because sometimes a lot of times defensive tackles aren't
going to make the tackle. They're there to plug up holes,
eat up double teams, and allow linebackers to go make
the tackle, allow somebody else to go do it, right,
(39:56):
So sometimes your tackle grades are low. In fact, if
you look at the top DT in twenty twenty three,
all of the best ones, they have terrible tackle grades, right,
which doesn't demonstrate how good they are. Derek Brown, despite
all of that, playing the position he does, is giving
you a seventy four tackle grade because he's not only
plugging up the gaps, not only has he taken on
(40:17):
all of the double teams, which also the stats would
suggest that happened in twenty twenty three. He also gets
off of those double teams once the running back gets
the second level and he goes and he chases you down.
That's how you set a record for most tackles ever
recorded by a defensive tackle. And you're telling me he
had a top fifteen pass rush grade in twenty twenty three. Yeah,
(40:38):
I'm actually glad that Madden did their homework. And even
if I probably would have had Derek Brown like four
or five, I'm glad that they put him as a
top five DT despite only playing one game last year.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Real quick before we get out of here. Any problems
with Tetoro and McMillan not being a top ten rate
at rookie despite being a top ten pick.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
No, not at all. I think it's fine. I can't
the Madden ratings again. Perhaps it's just because I'm so
ignorant to the game like that, I admit it, I am,
but the rookie stuff, there's no way to fairly evaluate it.
I don't what am I supposed to say, Oh, you
should have rated him here or there based on what
he did at Arizona.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I can't tell you that I'm that. Yeah, I thought,
you know, with some of his dimensions, he has solid
speed with that height jumping ability fifty to fifty catch,
I thought maybe that would have got him in the building.
I can't wait to see what his grade will be.
Because the top ten ranges from eighty four to seventy eight.
There are four rookies at the bottom of this top
ten list that have a seventy eight rating, and then
(41:37):
real quick, the top five Travis Hunters your number one
rookie with the eighty four, Ashton gent as An eighty three,
Abdul Carter eighty one, Mason Graham eighty and Will Campbell's
seventy nine. Some of the rookies are higher than I
would have expected. You don't see a ton of rookies
come in and get eighties off the rip. And then
just to throw that in cam Ward seventy two. I
(41:58):
think they said he's one of the lower rated number
one overall picks of all time.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
And man, I wonder what the top tier running back
prospects have been rated in previous years. Because Ashton genty
at eighty three, scenes yeah, I know, I thought eighty
three was pretty good. When I saw that, I said, oh,
he gets to eighty three. So I think that speaks
a lot to what they think he's going to be
able to do this season.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, you know, mad much more than I do.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
I would expect because you see top five rookies once
they're drafted. These guys have all pro seasons. There's not
a whole lot of I'm sure there's adjusting that we
don't see. Yeah, but in terms of what you see
on their Pro Football Reference page, rookie seasons from running
backs in the top ten monstrous, all pro, Pro Bowl level.
(42:41):
That's why if you're going to have that history on
your side, I would imagine a guy like Ashton Gent,
who was celebrated as one of the better running back
prospects ever. I would imagine they'd put him up there like, Okay, well,
rookie running backs come in and produce right away. Let's
just go ahead and give them the Again, they.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Actually got to guess their ratings with Damis Winston, and
to McMillan was involved in Natalina, we're gonna run that
today in Live Wire. I do believe the Madden SoundBite
where they were with Jameis Winston and they were going
through their ratings and tetlor Roy got to guess his
as well. So yeah, I actually did see what he got.
But we can hear that later, all right. When we
come back, folks, we start the two o'clock hour. This
(43:18):
is Wes and Walker. Listen to the West and Walker Show.
Wee Tea is from noon to three only on Sports
Radio ninety two point seven FM UFNC, the official home
of the Charlotte sports Fan
You were listening to the Wes and Walker Show. It's
the Charlotte game tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
They take on Fau and Fitty asked me where my
cutoff was. I told him I left it at home.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
It's Wes. But what if I tell you I didn't.
Oh No, you're not that smooth. What if I tell
you that I'm warn't it?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Right now?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Getting ready to tell you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Get at four thirty Scott, let's go forty dollars and Walker,
get off the hold Hold no Only On.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Sports Radio ninety two point seven FM w FNC on Friday,
Open off the doors, Let's get off the badad. Welcome back, bumps.
(00:59):
This is the West Walker Show. Sports Radio ninety two
seven w FNZ on a no Rules Friday from the
Chandler Voulter Studios at Cvinjurylaw dot com, CV Injury Law
dot Com. One call. That's all the Carolina's personal injury lawyers.
We're about to continue and put a boat on the
NC State team week. We're about to have Nord Fleischman on.
(01:21):
But you know what we got to do before we
talk about the wolf pack. We got to hit that
intro found to drop it. Oh okay, all right, wait
a minute. Well, as we said, we're gonna have Nord Fleischman,
beat writer for the wolf Packer and on three you
can follow him at Fleischman underscored, Noah, are we ready
to go? You know, we'll just go ahead and bring inis.
(01:43):
Let's get him in here. So Nord Fleischman, as I said,
beat writer for the wolf Packer and on three, is
joining us to talk about this NC State team. Give
us a little bit of a different perspective. Noah, how
you doing, my man? Good?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
How are you guys doing?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
We are doing great. So we went through the schedule
yesterday and the vibes are not high in here for
the NC State wolf Pack. We had one of us
chose them to go six and six, that's my man,
Walker Mail and then Flounder and I had them going
five and seven, missing a bowl game. I think they'll
be better, but I think that their schedule. Man, it's tough,
(02:21):
very nondescript roster that we have here. Are we out
of our minds?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah? I think I think that's the floor of this team.
I think five and seven is the floor. So I
don't think he got as far off. I mean, the
first half the schedule it's just that tough the back
half though. I mean, that's that's a gauntlet with with
Notre Dame and Berchrip to Miami in there too.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
So what are the vibes about this team? What do
you think about this roster as they are now in
training camp heading towards the season.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, definitely. You know, last year was not the year
they wanted to have. I think they lost four to
one score games, went six and seven, you know, lost
the Military Bowl, and you know, things weren't great. But
you know, the thing ABU NC State is so interesting
is that's only the third losing season they've had under
Dave Darren Is going to year thirteen, and the other
two they came back one eight games, so you don't
count them out. They kind of like them situation. They're
picked to finish tempt the SCC. They like to do
(03:09):
the data team, so this is an interesting spot for
them to be rosterwise, though. The return a lot on
offense defenses is really big question marks of what they're
going to do. They replaced the entire secondary place, the
linebacker place, a couple of bats of the seed line,
so we'll see what happens. I think this is a
team that might score you know, thirty forty points a
game to be able to consistently win.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
No whata Fly has been joining us here on Western
Walker talking about NC State's upcoming football season. Noah, what
did they fix what happened last year? Are you comfortable
with what they've done in the offseason to say, yeah,
they did fix what went want?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
What went wrong? Excuse me? Last year?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I think so because when you look at you know,
losing four one to four games isn't great. They were
one of the worst scoring offenses in the first half
in college football last year and one of the best
in the fourth quarter. So it's kind of one of
those things where they were really slow starting teams, made
a change of offense as coordinator and you know, promoting
their quarterbacks. Coach Kurt ropers as to the offensive coordinator,
he doesn't called play since twenty seventeen at South Carolina.
(04:05):
But I think they're really you know, confident what he
can do. And they have a software quarterback and CJ. Bailey,
who was thrown into the fire last year, played really well.
He was one of the best true freshman quarterbacks in
the country, you know, outperforming you know, Dylan Royola and
DJ Lagway and in a few stat categories. So it
really shows a promising thing for that and he was
kind of thinking he was a redshort last year, got
thrown in with with Christian McColl's concussion. So if he
(04:26):
can continue moving forward, he got better and better every
week last year. If he can continue that this season,
I think this offense has chance to kind of carry
the team little bit.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
No, we had a conversation about what the ceiling is
for CJ. Bailey, whether he could be an All acc performer.
What do you think the ceiling is for NC State's QB.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, I think last year he is among the you know,
one of the best true freshmen. I think now it's
kind of taking that in moving forward. I've talked to him,
you know, multiple times this offseason, and he seems really,
you know, content on you know, growing. He's not he's
not complacent. He's a guy who played at shamanad Madonna
and Miami. Jeremiah Smith was one of his top playmakers.
They're too, so he obviously knows how to play at
the lead talent. Now he's trying to channel that year
(05:03):
at ed NC State. Honestly, I think he's a guy
that could be a nonbo mentioned you know all these
hec kind of performer this year just with how he
can play. If he plays the way he did when
he was doing well last year, there were some freshman mistakes.
Who expect out anybody, But I think they're going to
clean it up kind of going into this year and
they have, you know, first few weeks. They're an opportunity
for him to get rolling before they really hit that
tough part of the schedule.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
No, what thoughts on the receiving cores and is there
a guy in this group that is going to break
out in your opinion?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, you know, they didn't bring in a quarter receiver
in the spring, which kind of shows you know what's
going on. They lost two receivers and in k except
Cianos the text A and M and the card Collins
to Louisville and they didn't bring it on us in.
They're confident he's got a lot of young receivers. You
got Wesley Grimes, he's the old one of the bunch
as a senior former Wake Force transfer. He ran a
four two four forty this offseason. They're expecting some good
(05:50):
things at him. I think the guy to picked breakout though.
I'm really a fan of Keenan Jackson. He played a
lot last year as a freshman, was once committed to
North Carolina before they flipped him. He's a guy to
play did really well. And another guy to look at
is Charrell Anderson. He's a guy from greens Throw another
highly ranked you know, guy coming out of high school.
Played a lot as the freshman last year. So I
throw these young guys into the fire. Year ago, they
kind of took their their bruises and now they hope
(06:11):
that that pays off this year.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
A sophomore, Hollywood Smothers is a guy who really helped
this offense at night down the stretch of this season.
What do you see for him? Is he going to
have that tremendous breakout here that a lot of us expect,
myself included.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I do you know, he's a Charlotte guy and he
you know, first half the season he's kind of running
back to running back three for most of the year.
Helt he dealt for the first six games, kilt an
injury in there, missed a couple of games, and the
last half of the season he was awesome. You know
he ended up finishing that the leading rusher, only really
starting six games with an amazing guy. He's one of
the most last guys on the team, maybe one of
the loosest guys in the ACCS for thirty four missed
(06:49):
tackles a year ago. I expect him to. I think
he can get close to one thousand yards this season,
as do the every day starter are going to lean
on him a lot, and I think he's got a
chance to become one of their first thousand yard backs
in like over five years.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Noah Fli's been joining us on WESN Walker talking about
NC State during team week Sports Rady ninety two seven WFNZ.
All right, let's talk Dave Dorin, because Noah, if they
have another season where they don't perform up to expectations. Really,
when we were going through the schedule breakdown yesterday, it
was the way we had them at six and six
and five and seven. We all had them, I believe,
winning four games in the first half yeap form and
(07:23):
then either winning only one or two at most in
the second half. If they falter as much as we
say they're going to in the second half of the season,
what would that mean for Dave Doran's job security.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, he's under concert through twenty twenty nine. They just
spent a lot of money to make a coach and
change in the men's basketball side of things. So it's
kind of a situation if you want to buy him
out right that a few years he's due to make
five point six two five million this year, it goes
up I think one hundred and fifty thousand every year
after that. It's just kind of one of those situations.
I think if they fall and go five and seven,
(07:55):
four and eight, I think it's more likely right now
that he would walk away then he would get fired.
I he's kind of one of those guys. He's told
me before he doesn't want to coach to be sixty five.
He's fifty three. He wants to know enjoy retirement because
his father didn't wasn't able to be. He had all
the timers. I think two years after he retired from
his job. So he's seen that affect his family personally.
(08:16):
So if they falter, it wouldn't be surprised to him
walk away. I wouldn't also to be surprised to see
them give him one more chance, because he's made a
Bowl in ten of his thirteen years. He's consistent winner.
He's been winning his coach in program history. I know
fans aren't too happy with how last year went. He
wasn't then you know, if they do Falter, it's an
interesting situation, but I would air on the side of they,
through corg in the ad, would give him another year
(08:37):
unless he's, you know, just decided to be done with
it himself.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Well, and that's why I wonder if we're in for
a Dave Closson type season where Dave class in excellent
at wake Forest, has all this history of winning, and
then after two back to back years of not winning,
he decides to step away and just get away from it.
Which is why I completely understand that scenario, that picture
that you paint here, Noah, I guess another question for
me is what is the Is the conversation too crazy
(09:03):
around Dorian because this is someone that wins eight nine
games consistently, even before the four and eight season that
they had in twenty nineteen. Yep, there were there. They
were nine and four, nine and four. Like, should we
be giving him a little more grace than what State
fans are giving him?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
I think so. I mean, it's just say, you know,
they only won four games are years ago. They turn
around and they rip off eight nine wins consistently after that.
He's a guy who he's a talent developer and he
likes coaching football. Still. I really asked him, like, why
do you do this? He still likes coaching, likes developing talent.
That's what they do.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
The thing doesn't like is the transfer port of nil
that the new era was kind of the same thing.
They've cased and talked about. Those guys are you know,
really good friends outside of the coaching Commission as well.
So it's kind of an interesting situation to see him
and but I think he deserves grace and credit. This
is a guy who wins eight nine games a year,
and as he stayed a program before he's got there.
You know, you look at their old time record, this
five hundred program. So I think he's been able to
(09:54):
outperform expectations. But now the expectation is you want to
win that ten game, and then he state's only done
that at one time, Philip Rivers did it. So it's
kind of one of those things where yes, you want
to win ten games and make the culturable playoffs, but
is it not attainable than the state. I'm not really sure.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
No. What I want to know what this defense? They
gave up three hundred and ninety two points last season.
What has been the focus? How are they trying to
change things? Especially with Tony Gibson Gum.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, one of the you know, the worst performing seasons
than are Tony Gibson, who was one of the best,
you know, defensive coordinators in the ACC during his tenure there.
Now he's at Marshall as the head coach. They hire
Dj Elliott. He came in you know, used, so he
was at Temple. Is the last time he's defensive coordinator.
He's served time and sewed off the Eagles in their
linebacker room. This is a guy who he's just football junkie.
Him and Dave Dorn have known each other for over,
(10:42):
you know, twenty years. He brings him aggressive file of defense.
They're gonna get after the quarterback. They're going to force pressure.
They're going to try to force the quarterback to make mistakes.
I think that's gonna the biggest thing we're gona see.
It's gonna be an interesting front because you know, Tony
Gibson like to play at three three five. Dj L
is gonna play three four and to show a four
to three. He likes to go back and forth to
make it some hybrid defensive lineman can do both, so
(11:02):
it'll be a totally different looking defense, I think than
what people are customed to. Saint from Empty State. They
are a custom to singions to State defense whole teams,
so you know, not that many points out of them many
yards and if he can get them on that, that's
that track. I think it's positive on if you're one.
A lot of new faces in the defense. I'm not
really sure what to make, you know. East Carolina embarrassed
the defense last year in the bowl game, and now
they get a chance to avenge it. Will they It's
(11:25):
hard to tell her right now.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
No last thing I got for you, man, what is
the game on the schedule that you feel like will
really swing the balance of how this season goes.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
I'll give it too. I'll give you the like. The
hot take I have is Game one against East Carolina.
You win the game, you feel good, you know, everything
is normal. They lose East Carolina to be back to
back losses to the Puyers, a team that you know,
East Carolina views them as a rival. NT State fans
don't really view it East Carolina's arrival. So you lose
them twice in a row. That could, you know, send
the season going downhill really quick. Another one that to
keep an eye on is Notre Dame. I mean, you're
(11:55):
gonna go play a college blall playoff, you know, containing team.
I just want to see how they can take a
stack up. That's the first really true tough road game
of the season. I really see if they can go
in there and in KP if they come out to win,
that's you know, really unexpected. But they go out of
there with us, you know, twenty thirty four loss, and
it kind of shows you where they stack up.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
That was Noah Fleischman, beat writer for The wolf Packer
and on three. You can follow him on x at
Fleischman Underscore. Noah Man. We appreciate the time, man, Thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, thanks, guys, appreciate it all. Right.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
When we come back, folks, we go back to Carolina
Panthers talk. Is the wide Receiver room ready for the
expectations that are coming? On Sports Radio ninety two seven
WFZ and just like that.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Folks.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
The Wes and Walker Show rolls on here on Sports
Radio ninety two seven w f n Z. Make sure
you hit that follow button on the social media's WFNZ
on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. You can also hit us
up at AHTB Anthony at West Bryan Underscore seventy two
at Walker Mail and most important at Wes and Walker.
Make sure you do that. And we got to give
a shout out Menhill Dan. We just got our shirts
(13:02):
in on Summer League Championship shirts with the front and
back design. I'm loving it, so Menhiale Dan, shout out to.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
You greatly appreciate Yeah, thanks a ton, Dan, I appreciate
giving me a shirt that is probably going to hold
up in the washer and dryer. And like the fifty
dollars shirt, I don't know if you guys know this,
I actually spent fifty dollars on a shirt yesterday. It
was fifty bucks and I bought multiple so you can
only imagine how much I was charged yesterday at the
(13:32):
pop up shop. I had a little problem with it,
which I did talk about. If you didn't hear it,
then I can give you a whole other rent and
some of the bigger segments that we have. Shout out
to Minhill Dan, great guy. Really appreciate your support of
the station, and then sending in some of the shirts
with great material by the way, little dry fit material. Yes,
I was on the front and the back. I'm just
(13:53):
saying Minhil Dan knows ball. That's pretty good. He definitely
does no ball.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
And getting back to talking ball, Carolina Panthers in training camp,
and we know that the stars of this camp, the
ones that we hear the most about, are the guys
that get to catch the touchdowns and do their chipping
dip ads. Like I like to say, but this wide
receiver room, we've been talking about it since the beginning
of camp, since the beginning of OTA's no matter how
you want to slice it, the receivers have been a
(14:18):
hot topic of conversation. And so with them having the
young guys with Adam Thielen being the OG, and then
I guess you could add Hunter Renfro into that group,
but he hasn't made the team. He's out there fighting
and battling like everybody else. But I think with young
players they have to grow in this league. In excel
and Jalen Cocher have already put together their rookie seasons
(14:40):
and so now this is a group that has expectations.
And the Charlotte Observer wrote an interesting article about Jayleen
Cocher written from Alex Zeitlow, and he was talking about
how Jalen Coker is playing with house money, and he
said in the article quote like my mom says, I'm
playing with house money. It is just a blessing. I'm
(15:01):
really fortunate I get to go out there and do
my thing on the field. And so that type of
mentality for Jalen Cocher is what helped him make the
roster because he's going to come out and just ball
out of control because he's an undrafted free agent. That's
what he's here to do. And I feel like for
a lot of the rookies, the young guys with not
a lot of expectations on this Carolina Panthers team. But
(15:23):
now you have some pundits talking playoffs, talking about this
team could be a surprise team. And so I think
it's interesting now to put on that young psyche that
those guys have. Are they ready for expectations because they're
going to be heavily scrutinized because of all the hypes
they've gotten, and it kind of shows you the contrast
that it can be. You can be everybody's darling one minute,
(15:46):
but if you don't come out and play up to expectations,
then a lot of people are going to have a
lot of scrutiny for you.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Definitely have expectations surrounding Jalen Coker coming into the year
because while people I think we're proven right in him
being the favorite in training camp. Oh man, this guy
went undrafted, but Steve Smith likes him. That means I
like him and what he was able to accomplish at
holy Cross. I'm surprised that he wasn't drafted and now
he's with us. He was always the training camp darling.
(16:13):
It's one of the rare times that we saw the
fruits of being a training camp darling transitioned into the
regular season because once he was playing, he was the
better wide receiver. This is the wild This was the
surprising thing that happened last year. Jalen Coker was a
better wide receiver last year than xavierly Get. I don't
know how many arguments that you could provide at the
table to say Xcel was better than Coker. They were
(16:34):
on the field. You looked at Cocher and said he
was the better guy. Does that continue? Because you might
look at Excel with the forty time, with the way
that he played at South Carolina, he was an absolute
beast with the game Cocks. You might say, well, this
is the guy that has the higher potential. But if
he doesn't do it this year, Wes, then people, I
think will start saying, I thought I saw little Jonathan
(16:56):
Mingo in XCEL. I thought I saw that and it
never materialized. Year never got to see him on that
positive trajectory. You're right, there's a lot of expectations now,
maybe more so than what we had with some of
the surrounded guys. Excel had him. We want to see it.
I'm saying, this receiving court is a room. No, no,
but no, you're You're not wrong at all. Yeah, I
totally agree that. Now, if we're going to say that
(17:18):
this room is packed, stacked, we're ready to roll, then
you got to perform like it.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, And each one of them have expectations on him
to different degrees. When you look at Tetoroa, he's got
heavy expectations because he was the number eight pick of
the draft, and he's supposed to be the crown jewel
of this receiving room. Excel has all the expectations because
he was a first round pick last year. No matter
if you want to say, oh, it was at the
bottom of the first round, there's still a one in
(17:44):
front of his name when they put what round that
he was drafted in. And then the offseason where he's
been everywhere. He's been living like a superstar this offseason,
and there are going to be a lot of people
who are going to be expecting him to play like one.
Jalen Coca again, I think he probably has the lead
the amount of expectations because I think some people expect,
you know, for that glass slipper not to necessarily fit
(18:05):
anymore because he's an undrafted free agent. But then there
are a lot of people that do like what he
brings to the table. Adam Thieling been there, done that.
Then you go to Jimmy Horn. He's been garnering buzzz
every single day because of how fast he looks. People
are gonna expect him to get out there and be
able to be a big play caliber receiver out there
as well, and then Hunter Renfro I would say too.
(18:27):
You know, he's kind of off the hook right now.
But I think as a group, this whole receiving corps
has expectations on him, and it will be interesting to
see how each one of them handles said expectations. And
so with that said, do you feel like that Adam
Thilano is still the number one option by default? It's tough.
I think yes.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
T mac might have something to say about that, just
because he is going to play the X and he
is a top ten pick. I look at thelan's target
share the first two games of last year. It was
four targets against the Saints, it was three targets against
the Chargers. He had four against the Raiders on that
long touchdown catch that he had from Andy Dalton, but
also on that touchdown catch, he got hurt and he
(19:07):
didn't play anymore. And so until actually Week twelve against
Kansas City that was his first game back.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Missed a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
It's tough to figure out if he would eventually have
surpassed Deontay Johnson, because Deontay, I'm sure he would have.
But Deontay at the beginning of the season, he was
the number one target, right, THELAN did not come into
last year as your number one guy. That was Deontay.
So if THELAN is in his last year, do you
just automatically put t Mac as the wide receiver one?
(19:36):
I think if you wanted to change the question and say,
is THELAN the guy that you trust the most? Still,
I think the answer to that question is yes. And
if we answer yes to that, Bryce probably does too
with the rapport. But does THELEN come in as the
guy that's the most targeted, the guy that you see
targeted and have to have its situations. That's where I
(19:56):
think it's a little iffy. I think for the most part,
I would still say yes, THELAN the guy.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, I would say so, just because of the fact
of the trust factor that he would have, being the veteran,
knowing this playbook inside and out, being the teacher of
the youngins in that group. And I think he's just
the guy that Bryschungk's going to depend on. When you
talk about a player that plays the style of football
that bry Young plays, He's that cerebral computer back there. Quarterback.
He's going to hit the guy that gets open first.
(20:23):
You know, if feeling is the first look and he
gets open, he's going to hit him. But even still,
he knows that he can count on a guy like that.
When you talk about Bryschanng, I wouldn't necessarily consider him
a classic dropback passer because he does have a capability.
He does have enough speed to get out of the
pocket and make things happen. But if you talk about
the cruxt of his game, it is the crux of
his game. Excuse me, he is a drop back passer,
(20:44):
and those guys are always going to show a lot
of love to the guys who know how to get
open and know where to be.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Okay, So if you look at Thelan's target share the
last four weeks, so against Tampa Bay and Philadelphia, he
had ten and eleven and then seven six all the
way through so seven six six six. Oh, get away
from that number, but that was the way. That was
the target share that he got each of the last
four weeks. Looking at Cocher, Cocher had six four two seven,
(21:11):
So a little behind Thelan, but kind of into that range. Uh,
Like I think t Mac. Do you think t Mac
leads the team and targets this year? I would say yes,
to that coming into the year. I think you're right
that Thelan's going to be the guy. I think at
the end of the season t Mac leads this team
in targets.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
If I had to gamble right now, I would I
would say no, you would say lamble. I would probably
say Thelan on Cocher.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yes, you would say those two just because you believe
in their talents better or yes, that'd be interesting, which
which means which means if t mac finishes third in targets,
I mean you don't think XL is going to pass
t Mac, right?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I do not, so not at this point.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
So so what we're setting up is some interesting conversations
from you and in terms of where you think t
mac belongs as a player, because if you think Cocher
and Adam Thielen both are ahead of your top ten pick,
then people are going to have questions in the offseason
about what the pick is.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Well, and I think too just the fact that he
is a rookie. We have seen some rookies that come
into this league and absolutely tear it up. We have
seen that. But I think for Tedoroa, the thing coming
in for him, and like I said, he could very
well prove me wrong, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit.
But when you talk about the Knox on him as
far as coming in as a rook fifty to fifty
(22:30):
ball is his specialty. And also to people talk a
lot about the separation issues, and so we know in
the NFL they find out those weaknesses real quick and
they're definitely going to play to those And so that's
why I think it could be interesting for him his
transition into the league. Once the real bullets start to fly,
so to speak.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I do wonder, just do we see a Justin if
not to say the TEAMAK is going to be Justin Jefferson.
That's not what I'm saying. Even though who's your guy
that said he looked like Justin him? It was Greg Cosel.
Is that who you like?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I think?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So yes, I know, and I remember you bring that
SoundBite to the table and saying, Okay, that's high praise
from a guy of trust, which would be great if
he turns into JJ. I think JJ's rookie year. I'm
trying to pull the stats up. I think his rookie
year it was crazy. It didn't start crazy like the
first two weeks. It wasn't absolutely nuts, so from what
I can remember, I think it was like week three,
(23:26):
week four. Then he started to take off, if you
want to look at it, Amon Ross Saint Brown, who
wasn't a first round pick, which maybe that counts as
a part of the equation and trying to project everything
Amon Ross Saint Brown, he took over more so in
the second half of the season.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And so you're right, Justsin Jefferson his first two weeks
only about a combined sixty seventy yes, even y'alls in
the first two weeks, and then he goes one seventy
five and one.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
On three and it's off, right. I wonder if, like
that's why nobody should be writing t mac off if
he struggles to produce the first two weeks. But if
he does, if they're targeting him right away, I think
that will tell us a lot about what we can expect. Like,
I know people are gonna want to see more games
played because you're just gonna wint a larger sample. That
(24:12):
makes total sense. I do not mind if T Matt
gets eight targets right off the rip, saying okay, he's
their number one guy, Like I'll go ahead and put
that take down after week one.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
All right, Going over to the Fandula text line, Bicycle
Hurt says theling is the number one on third and
gotta have it, and then Bagel Guy says, no one
talking about Hunter taking Thielin's job. No, I think Feelin's
put in enough work to this point, and I think
he's a little bit more explosive, a little bit more
adept at getting open than hanter Renfro. I do like
(24:45):
Hunter Renfro. I do think he's got a great shot
to make this team, but I think that the fact
of the time off for him as well. Thilan has
been playing and he has been playing well. So going
over to Excel, we talked about it a little bit earlier,
we brushed across but quiet camp. So far, you hear
a little bit about him here and there. We haven't
(25:05):
gotten any of the hyperbole that we get about some
of the other receivers or some of the other players
in camp, which is kind of what you would want
to hear at this point, and maybe not such that
you're saying, oh, this is the best receiver out here,
but you would love to get some tweets to say, hey,
you know, Exhale looking like a guy that's getting it
(25:25):
in year two or a guy that the light's starting
to turn on for him. Do you feel like that
we should be reading the writing on the wall or
you want to give it a little bit more time?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Oh and I so, I don't know if I describe
it as quiet. I think for me, I think it's
a mixed bag because you do see some touchdown catches.
You do see there's the bad clip that went viral,
and I think when you see the bad clip of
j C. Horn having that inside leverage, having good eyes
and just completely stopping that route, she quick had that
clip that a lot of people commented on, including Chadow Chosenko,
(25:57):
who was providing some advice to Xavier League get after that,
saying hey, you know, do this, try to free up yourself,
and then gave j C. Horns some credit all that
to say, No, I wouldn't say XL's having a bad camp.
And so if he was having a bad one and
he was dropping a bunch of footballs and all of
the plays looked like that one against JC, yeah, I
think the writing would be on the wall and it's
(26:17):
like I want this to happen. I desperately want it
to happen for that guy, I just don't see it.
I don't feel that way. I'm very much still in
let's see how he looks the first few weeks mode.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
That's where I am with Excel. The thing for me
is I just want to see him because the thing
I said when we were watching that clip, which yes,
you know, I'm not the guy that's going to go
off of one clip on social media and make a
blanket statement, but I just feel like he doesn't play fast.
And I felt like that about him last year in
his rookie year, and then seeing clips like that don't help.
You don't see, you know, for a four to three
(26:49):
nine guy at that size. And we talked about how
I said, like THEO, I get it too. As a
Hall of Famer. I'm not trying to compare the two
us say that Excel is like him. I'm just saying
that when you look at the body styles of both guys,
To was much more of a fluid athlete in the
way that he moved, and with XL, I feel like
he kind of lumbers a little bit. And I feel
like that four to three nine might be a little
(27:10):
bit of the by product of the training before the
draft to get you ready exactly for the forty, which
we see that with some players. I just feel like
he doesn't play up to his speed.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Well, I think the forty time it measures point A
to point B distance, right, Like the wiggle isn't there
for Excel, which I think I agree with you, like
I wouldn't describe Excel as fluid. I think some of
those when he catches the football, the getoff is not immediate.
When it's like he catches the football looks way to
tiny bit and then he starts to get going. I
(27:40):
think he's a momentum not zero to sixty and two
point five.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
And see that's exactly to my point because when you
talk about that forty, that's the number one thing they
work on for you when you go to these speed
camps and stuff like that. But is it going to transition?
And I guess to your point where what you're saying
about the get off for god that runs four three nine,
there should be a little bit more get off from him.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Well yeah, yeah, I guess the quickness maybe isn't there.
Like I actually don't know what the shuttle time was
for him. I don't have that. I can look that
up too about some of the agility drills, but he
doesn't look agile. I do think he gets separation downfield
like I think that's actually some of the better traits
(28:23):
that he showed. If you're in on XCEL and you
want specific types as to why XL is going to
work specific things, I think something I like is using
his shoulder to create separation on post routes downfield. That's
something that he was celebrated for even last year. I
think you saw where he was open, just couldn't handle
the football, and that's why he dropped a couple passes downfield,
(28:45):
including the Philadelphia one that is the most egregious. So
I'm we talked about this earlier in the offseason. I
think I'm more so glass half empty with XCEL, like
I'm hoping I'm wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if I
was on him too, But it doesn't mean that I'm
all the way ready to say he's not going to
work out. I think his camp's been fine. I don't
(29:06):
think it's been amazing. I don't think it's been bad.
I think it's been fine, and I think we're still
seeing some diving catches we're seeing some red zone receptions
from him. I'm okay with what I'm seeing from all. Right,
last thing I will ask you when we talk about.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Jimmy Horn Junior, and you know he's been probably he's
right there with Tedtoroa or maybe them most talked about.
If you go all the way back to OTA's, just
how big of a road do we feel like that
he could have as a fourth or fifth receiver, Because
if we talk about Jatavion Sanders taking a step up,
we talk about this receiving corps, if it's Tetoa and
(29:40):
then you know Jayalen Thielen Exhale. I mean, just how
much of an impact do we feel like that he
could have? I mean, will he even have a chance
to have an impact with everybody getting so excited about it.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I'm just I love what I'm seeing. I think he
should make the team. I don't want him off the roster.
Seen this so many times with these wide receivers that
come in and are impressive, and they a oftentimes west
look like that they do. They look like the really
fast guys, the real twitch. He gets some separation. I
can think of a few at the top of my head,
fellow Charlotte forty nine or Austin Duke was one of
(30:11):
these guys that played well in camp and looked fast
and was really quick. I can go to I mean,
my god, before Curtis Samuel really broke out. Second round pick,
so something a little different there, But Curtis was quote
unquote unguardable in training camp. I think also the thing
about Jimmy Horn is when you see him making these
catches a lot of times, the corner is Corny Thornton,
(30:33):
Caleb Evans, these corners that aren't maybe going to make
the team. That's not to say he shouldn't make the squad.
He's torching those guys. It's exactly what you got to
do when you face all the rookie corners. And so
there's no hate at all when it comes to how
productive do I think he's going to be with all
these other receivers on the roster.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Thing's going to be tough. Man.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
I think maybe if he's going to have like a
huge impact on this offense as a receiver, not return guy,
but as a receiver, I think you're probably just looking
at him providing more of an impact when Steeling is
gone and having a year under his belt to get
acclimated to the game.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
All right, when we come back, folks, Derek Brown gets
a ninety five rating and this year's edition of Madden,
what are fair expectations for his return to the field
on Sports Radio ninety two seven WFZ, And just like that, folks,
(31:29):
we return on a no rules Friday. This is the
West and Walker Show. Been a pretty good show so far,
I would say, yeah, solid solid show. Run of the
mill Friday show. All right, So jumping back into the
thick of things talking about the Carolina Panthers and projecting
the twenty twenty five season, and so earlier this week
we talked about Madden ratings, and so at the time
(31:51):
I had looked at a page that claimed to have
had the Madden twenty six ratings, but indeed they did not.
And so from now on, your boys just gonna stick
to the official ratings when they dropped from EA Sports.
But Derek Brown comes in as easily the highest rated
Carolina Panther out of team. Rosters have not been released
(32:12):
just yet, but they have been releasing the top ten
at different positions, to which I also throw in there
that JJ Jansen made the top three. I believe he
was the third highest rated lost snapper. Yeah, and he
was excited about it because he said that normally he
was in the bottom four tight ends in the game
every single year. So he said he was glad to
(32:33):
be at the top of the position.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
But yeah, but Derek Brown sits there. He's third on
the list. But actually, if you want to look at it,
he is second because Chris Jones and Dexter Lawrence each
had ninety sevens. Derek Brown has that ninety five man,
and that puts him in elite territory. And so talking
about expectations for him coming back off of injury, that
(32:56):
ninety five rating, what do you think about that? I
think he's awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
I think this is a little more in line with
how I felt about Derek Brown than what I think
the eighty eight was or but I didn't know. I'd
tell you all the time. Madden ratings, a lot of
them don't make sense to me. There's a reason that
people debate them is because they think that they're doing
these guys dirty. Same thing with the two K ratings.
I just don't know what's going to happen. Ninety five
does make sense. And I'm actually a little surprised that
(33:21):
Madden gave Derek Brown a ninety five rating because he
missed all of last year. I just thought, out of side,
out of mine type of stuff, well, we'll dock him
a couple of points because whatever criteria that we manufacture here.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
But they didn't. And I like that. So do I
agree with it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I think this is a pretty solid rating for him
in terms of where he should be positioned among his peers.
I have no issue with Dexter Lawrence and Chris Jones
being the better DT's. I would say those are your
top two interior defensive line in all the football. I
would even have been okay had you had a couple
of other guys above Brown. Yeah, but I love that
(33:59):
Brown is here at the three spot.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, I think that for him, I thought that was
strong because I did not expect that. I thought, probably
at his highest that he would get a ninety, which
would still put him right there where Jalen Carter Queen
City is for the Philadelphia Eagles. He is the ninth
highest rated defensive tack or interior defensive lineman on this
list as well, And so I think the expectations for
(34:23):
his return to the field, if he's able to be
one hundred percent, I think he's going to be one
of those guys you're a little bit on penzonedles with
with that surgically repaired maniscus at a man of that size,
that has to be explosive taking on two blockers in
a lot of circumstances, and so that's going to be
(34:44):
an intriguing part to his season. But I think that
he should come back the form that he was when
he left. And we know that his PFF grade for
the one play or the one game that he played
last year was not great, but it was just the
first game. Everybody played bad. Everybody's to a bad day
at the office. But we know in twenty twenty three
he was certainly one of the best in the business.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
You got something well, no, just the Saints game. God,
I'm sure it's out there. But for a while we
didn't know what play he got hurt on, and that
was kind of wild because he played the entire game.
And then we find out, oh no, he got banged up.
Oh he got more than banged up. He's out for
the year. And so I remember not being able to
remember or figure out what play he got hurt on,
(35:27):
and maybe it was found out a little bit later,
but yeah, kind of a wild injury the way that
it developed when you go back and evaluate him.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, And the thing I think that's interesting is that
this rating certainly pays him a lot of respect, especially
for what he does now is a He's a decent
pass rusher in my opinion, and I think he does
have good balance. If you go back to the twenty
twenty three season, where he did have a ninety run
defense grade and a seventy eight pass rush grade, and
if you look at the pressures, he had forty one
(35:55):
total to twenty seven hurries. And so I looked at
the guys that were ahead of them, ahead of him
and what they did in their twenty twenty three season,
and Dexter Lawrence went sixty five pressures with forty five hurries,
and then Chris Jones his numbers are just outrageous. I mean,
ninety one total pressures, fifty three hurries. I mean, this
guy's basically out there against blocking pads. When you talk
(36:17):
about having that much impact on a game, and so
I don't know that I would give him top three
interior defensive linemen right now, I think he's certainly one
of the best. I think his specialty is against the
run and the pass rush. It's there, but I want
to see a little bit more. But I think if
he can get into the arenas of these other two
(36:40):
and some of the other better pass rushing defensive tackles,
then yeah, and I think you're talking about absolutely one
of those types of players. But really, based off this rating,
if he gets his numbers up there, hell, he might
just get into the ninety nine Cup.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
If he finishes with ten sacks and still gives you
a ninety run defensive rade, that's not nine clubs, that's
ninety nine club status. I don't think it's crazy, Wes.
I mean, he's just not getting home on this stuff.
That's it. The pressures are there for him. And I'll
just go back to twenty twenty three referencing some of
these peers at his position, Derek Brown had the fifteenth
(37:16):
highest interior defensive lineman pass rush grade if you would
have put if you copy and paste that to twenty
twenty four, he's in the top ten. So that's automatically fantastic.
The run defensive grade is elite, elite like we're talking
best of the best. So Derek Brown was ahead and
pass rushing grade of Namdi Mattabuki in twenty twenty three,
(37:40):
and yet Mattabuki was credited with fourteen sacks compared to
Derek Brown's two. It's just one of those weird things
sometimes that happens with these defensive linemen. I wouldn't put
Derek Brown three. I think Cam Hayward has earned a
top three spot with one his entire career. I think
one of the more underrated players that we've seen in
the football the last decade. Just a monster of a man.
And I know you accuse me of agism. No agism here,
(38:03):
I'm putting Cam Hayward up in the top three despite
him being so old. But that guy is just a
freaking monster. I think I would have Derek Brown somewhere
in the top five. I think top three. I'm not
here to be angry about it. I really don't want
to quibble about it. I would have Derek Brown as
a top five defensive tackle. You put him at three. Hey,
this Panthers fan is fine with it.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, do you think that it also speaks to two?
I think how underrated he is as a play. And
I think it's because, you know, he's not necessarily as
charismatic and as out there as some of those other guys.
Even in his pressers, you're not going to get a
you know, he's a jovial guy, but he's not just
super charismatic commercials, this, that, and the third, and I
think it kind of hurts his perception a little bit
(38:41):
where I think he is one of those underrated players
because people just don't really know about him or pay
attention to him like that unless you, as you called
them sickos that pay attention to line play like right one.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
You play a position that requires a little more nuanced
to evaluate than your skill positions. It's people are going
to gravitate more towards offense in general, period, and then
they'll gravitate more towards the sack artists, which Derek Brown
we just talked about, isn't and the defensive players that
you celebrate are going to be playing for teams that
win football games. The Panthers have not been one of
those teams in quite some time, so it's going to
(39:13):
be tough for him to get attention. Love that you
mentioned him being underrated one thousand million percent agree with that.
One stat that I point to is if you look
at the top defensive tackles in the league, and I
need to pin down exactly why this is, but we've
talked about it a little bit. His tackle grade is
second and twenty twenty three in all of football at
his position. Javon Kinlaw the only guy that has a
(39:35):
higher tackle grade, and nobody is mistaking Javon Kinlaw for
a top fifteen defensive tackle in the league, right. Okay,
what's interesting is looking at some of the info there.
It's because sometimes a lot of times defensive tackles aren't
going to make the tackle. They're there to plug up holes,
eat up double teams, and allow linebackers to go make
the tackle, allow somebody else to go do it, right,
(39:56):
So sometimes your tackle grades are low. In fact, if
you look at the top DT in twenty twenty three,
all of the best ones, they have terrible tackle grades, right,
which doesn't demonstrate how good they are. Derek Brown, despite
all of that, playing the position he does, is giving
you a seventy four tackle grade because he's not only
plugging up the gaps, not only has he taken on
(40:17):
all of the double teams, which also the stats would
suggest that happened in twenty twenty three. He also gets
off of those double teams once the running back gets
the second level and he goes and he chases you down.
That's how you set a record for most tackles ever
recorded by a defensive tackle. And you're telling me he
had a top fifteen pass rush grade in twenty twenty three. Yeah,
(40:38):
I'm actually glad that Madden did their homework. And even
if I probably would have had Derek Brown like four
or five, I'm glad that they put him as a
top five DT despite only playing one game last year.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Real quick before we get out of here. Any problems
with Tetoro and McMillan not being a top ten rate
at rookie despite being a top ten pick.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
No, not at all. I think it's fine. I can't
the Madden ratings again. Perhaps it's just because I'm so
ignorant to the game like that, I admit it, I am,
but the rookie stuff, there's no way to fairly evaluate it.
I don't what am I supposed to say, Oh, you
should have rated him here or there based on what
he did at Arizona.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I can't tell you that I'm that. Yeah, I thought,
you know, with some of his dimensions, he has solid
speed with that height jumping ability fifty to fifty catch,
I thought maybe that would have got him in the building.
I can't wait to see what his grade will be.
Because the top ten ranges from eighty four to seventy eight.
There are four rookies at the bottom of this top
ten list that have a seventy eight rating, and then
(41:37):
real quick, the top five Travis Hunters your number one
rookie with the eighty four, Ashton gent as An eighty three,
Abdul Carter eighty one, Mason Graham eighty and Will Campbell's
seventy nine. Some of the rookies are higher than I
would have expected. You don't see a ton of rookies
come in and get eighties off the rip. And then
just to throw that in cam Ward seventy two. I
(41:58):
think they said he's one of the lower rated number
one overall picks of all time.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
And man, I wonder what the top tier running back
prospects have been rated in previous years. Because Ashton genty
at eighty three, scenes yeah, I know, I thought eighty
three was pretty good. When I saw that, I said, oh,
he gets to eighty three. So I think that speaks
a lot to what they think he's going to be
able to do this season.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, you know, mad much more than I do.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
I would expect because you see top five rookies once
they're drafted. These guys have all pro seasons. There's not
a whole lot of I'm sure there's adjusting that we
don't see. Yeah, but in terms of what you see
on their Pro Football Reference page, rookie seasons from running
backs in the top ten monstrous, all pro, Pro Bowl level.
(42:41):
That's why if you're going to have that history on
your side, I would imagine a guy like Ashton Gent,
who was celebrated as one of the better running back
prospects ever. I would imagine they'd put him up there like, Okay, well,
rookie running backs come in and produce right away. Let's
just go ahead and give them the Again, they.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Actually got to guess their ratings with Damis Winston, and
to McMillan was involved in Natalina, we're gonna run that
today in Live Wire. I do believe the Madden SoundBite
where they were with Jameis Winston and they were going
through their ratings and tetlor Roy got to guess his
as well. So yeah, I actually did see what he got.
But we can hear that later, all right. When we
come back, folks, we start the two o'clock hour. This
(43:18):
is Wes and Walker. Listen to the West and Walker Show.
Wee Tea is from noon to three only on Sports
Radio ninety two point seven FM UFNC, the official home
of the Charlotte sports Fan
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