December 30, 2025 • 45 mins
In the final hour of the show, the guys react to Steve Smith missing out on being a finalist for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, talk about the candidacy of the finalists that were named yesterday and walk off with 'What's on Tap' tonight.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Weson Walker show. Yeah, the Rick Flad
documentary was five. It's Wes just came out. It's on Peacock.
It's called WOO. That was good.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Yeah, this man said real quick and Walker it is
called WU. It's not the most glowing view of the title.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Only on Sports Radio ninety two point seven FM wfn Z.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Like I thought there weren to be like a lot
of emphasis on the oh wow, and he was just like,
it's called WU.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
One more hour to go.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
In twenty twenty five on Western Walker Sports Radio ninety
two seven wfn Z, we are still broadcasting live from
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Speaker 1 (00:53):
One call.
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That's all the Carolinas personal injury lawyers. We want to
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seven oh four five five seven oh ninety six to ten.
That number again is seven oh four five seven oh
ninety six ten. Have some breaking news coming in really
the Diggs family. Stefan Diggs and Trayvon Diggs both in
the news right now. Oh, Stefon Diggs. For all the
(01:15):
wrong reasons, New England had to put out a statement
out go back to in just a moment. But Trayvon
Diggs actually was just released by the Dallas Cowboys, so
he is out there too.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
He had.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Interestingly enough, you just bought him up yesterday for the
first time not in show history. But we don't talk
about Trayvon Diggs a lot around here. You brought him
up yesterday. Now he's cut. I'm a little worried about
some of these other names that you bring up, but
that's just going to be the conclusion, the result of
you bringing somebody up. But yeah, the Cowboys, they released
two time Pro Bowl cornerback Trayvon Diggs with one game
to play. He's twenty seven years old and he'll go
(01:47):
through waivers. If unclaimed, he will be a free agent.
The move ins a tumultuous last two seasons that has
seen the relationship between the player and organization girl apart.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Once.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Source said the decision to move on from Diggs was
due quote to a culmination of events, including performance. We
had somebody ride in. It was Scary Banana on the
FanDuel text line who said, I don't expect the Panthers
to try to claim Digs off waivers, but at twenty
seven years old. Is he washed or does he just
need a change of scenery. The thing about Trayvon Diggs
(02:18):
is that he goes rogue. He had good instinctive plays
that he made, specifically earlier on in his career, where
he might completely forget about his assignment, but sometimes it
would really pay off. He would just completely ditch his
assignment to go football hunting, and a lot of times
you would go be the ballhawk that he was and
force a turnover. And those plays are extremely valuable. You
(02:40):
could argue outside of touchdowns, maybe that turnovers are the
most valuable play that you can create.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Until he turns around, it gives up a sixty odd touchdown.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Until the two hundred yards he gives up. That's not
great either in the culmination of all of those plays.
And so he was very much so feast or famine.
It was very much so trick or treat with this guy.
It does not feel like Trayvon Diggs has a place
as a starter on this Panthers team.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
J C.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Horn, Mike Jackson, they're going to be on the outside.
You're not putting digs at Nickel. That's still going to
be Smith Wade. So really what you would be doing
if you picked him up, it would all be for
death purposes. And even then, do you want to bring
him in if there are some locker room stuff with him?
Speaker 1 (03:23):
If that's the case.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I don't know enough about it, but this feels like
kind of the culmination of events thing. It feels like
some of that is off of the field and performance.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I think you got not to me, yeah, not to
mention this year he came off of ACL Oh yeah, man,
he's washed, He's on his last days in the league.
You don't want no parts of that. Just to address it.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
The Stefan Diggs stuff real quickly, A more serious note here,
but again both the Diggs brothers are in the news
and we have Steffan Diggs facing very serious accusations. Just
to keep people up to date, New England Patriots wide
receiver Stefon Diggs is facing a fellon each charge of
strangulation and a misdemeanor charge of assault from an alleged
incident on December.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Second.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Emotion hearing took place at eleven am this morning and
a judge decided. A judge is deciding whether to impound
the court documents ahead of Diggs arraignment. January twenty third,
which is the Friday before the AFC Championship Game. The
Patriots did release a statement saying that the Patriots are
aware of the accusations that have been made regarding Stefan Diggs.
(04:26):
Stefan has informed the organization that he categorically denies the allegations.
We support Stefan. We will continue to gather information and
will cooperate fully with the appropriate authorities in the NFL
as necessary. Out of respect for all parties involved, and
given that this is an ongoing legal matter, we will
have no further comment at this time. So clearly, hopefully
(04:47):
everybody is okay. Never know what to say when the
accusations are this fresh, this just coming out within the
last couple of hours, I will say, if you did
want to talk about the football part of it, which
clearly matters way, way less than the actual accusations at hand.
The football part of it is New England might be
without their best wide receiver going into the postseason, but
I guess we'll see how all of this plays out,
(05:09):
and New England has a real issue on their hands.
I also, I will say this, deciding to put in
the statement we support Stefan without gathering all of the
information first. That's a weird sentence to just kind of
throw in the middle of the statement. It feels like
that statement is fine if you remove that part we
support Do you want to support him before you have
(05:30):
all of the evidence info? Okay, could look like you
have some egg on your face if it's these accusations
are true, but we don't know that, and we'll see
how everything unfaults.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, And I mean, this is a guy. It's always
something with Stefan Diggs. I mean, if it's not the babies,
then it was also the thing that came out about
the man that accused him of jumping him because he
refused his advances talking about Stefan Diggs. That was a thing.
Now we have this going on. So with Stefan Diggs,
I mean, not to mention all the locker room issues
at the places that he's been so him man, his
(05:59):
brother as you just talked about it. Man, it just
don't seem like they're great people. And you know, you
hate it for the New England Patriots because you felt
like that he was having a decently quiet year as
far as just really bad off the field stuff, except
for the aforementioned thing. But now we add this to
the mix. So yeah, man, I mean this just is
a guy that's just, you know, just not a good person.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
The summer though, all right, we move on to what
many people believe to be an excellent person in Luke Keighley.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Hard to deny it.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Luke Keighley is again a finalist for the Pro Football
Hall of Fame. However, his former teammate Steve Smith. He
fell short in the latest reduction to fifteen, which was
announced Tuesday morning. Reading an article really directly here from
Darrengan on Panthers dot Com, with the news coming in
Luke Keighley, we can applaud him for being named a
top fifteen finalist going into the Hall of Fame, but
(06:47):
against Steve Smith, he fell short again. And there's new
rules now with the way that the writers divvy up
all of their votes and how many people are allowed
in or allowed to move on to the next level.
Real I'll try to simplify it as much as I can,
but finalists from the previous year generally would advance the
following year, and then, particularly in the days when five
(07:10):
modern candidates a year were chosen to make the finals,
that was something that you would see where those guys
would advance. This year, there were twelve leftover finalists from
twenty twenty five, so that's three less. And so when
four first year eligible players made the final fifteen last
year and Drew Brees, Larry Fitzgerald, and Frank Gore, Jason
Witten also in that list along with the first time
(07:31):
finalists who was previously eligible, ten holdover finalists excuse me,
and ten holdover finalists. That meant two of the last
year's final fifteen were out in the cold. So if
there are two guys on the outside looking in that
would usually make the next step, Steve Smith and Fred
Taylor are the guys that are on the outside looking
(07:53):
in that would typically move on and graduate to the
next level. You know, if I think about Steve Smith,
he should absolutely be a Hall of Famer, and really
I don't think there's any question about it, and I
know that it could sound like a homer. But at
the same time, the reason I feel so strongly about
Steve Smith being in the Hall of Fame and having
an issue with the Hall of Fame voting process is
I really don't think that the argument is debatable I
(08:16):
feel that strongly. I don't think there's a good reason
to keep Steve Smith out of the Hall of Fame
with everything that he's accomplished. My issue is, as the
Hall of Fame, do you want to celebrate the best
football players of all time? And if the answer to
that question is yes, then you have to celebrate Steve Smith.
He is one of the best football players to ever
(08:36):
suit up. If you want to celebrate those players, the
players that you supposedly are supposed to celebrate, then Steve
Smith should begin. Yet here we are again with him
being on the outside looking in. All of the arguments
against players making the Hall of Fame, what are they?
Some of the arguments are, well, he didn't do it
for long enough. Nope, can't say that about Smithy. He
(08:59):
played forever. Well, his peak wasn't all that impressive. Was
he truly ever the best player at his position? Did
that ever happen? How about the Triple Crown year and five?
That's pretty good. Where you led all receivers in every
major category, Where you led the NFL in receptions, receiving touchdowns,
and receiving yards. Okay, so he was quite literally the
best wide receiver. Did he show up for the big moments.
(09:21):
A lot of playoff performances were he's shown up ex clown.
We all remember what he did to Charles Tillman in
the Chicago Bear Secondary. We remember him having a Super
Bowl touchdown. So longevity, check peak, check doing it in
the postseason? Check, were you the best player at your position? Check?
Top ten all time in receiving yards. He's a top
(09:43):
ten receiver all time in that category.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Check.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Just doesn't make any sense to me other than the
Hall of Fame voting process being too strict. So we
can say, well, he doesn't deserve to be in over
some of these other guys. Let the best football players
in the Hall of Fame. It's really simple. Yeah, it's
so tough, and I'm with you. I do believe he's
a Hall of Famer. And that's the thing they've always
talked about, the log jam at wide receiver, and I
(10:07):
would imagine out of this group of guys, they're only
going to pick one receiver, I would imagine. And so
that's the thing that's tough because I think Fitzgerald's first
ballot guy, and so that's gonna probably push it back
again if they do decide to only go with one
ride receiver. All of these receivers that they have up
here are very deserving and so that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And I think the big comparison is, you know, you
would look at Hope and Steve Smith AND's would and
say which one if you would have picked between those
two guys. But then also you're going to have a
new guy that's gonna come like we had Andre Johnson.
They got in on the first ballot, if I'm not mistaken.
So there's gonna be new guys that are gonna keep
coming up as well that are going to be there
at that position. So that's the tough part. I'm with you.
(10:49):
I do believe that Steve Smith Singer is a Hall
of Famer. It's just the log jam and the people
that are in there with him. Because if you look
at you know, maybe him and Tory Holt, if you pick,
I think that the Hall of Fame voters, they're going
to value the championship rings. They're going to you know,
he had he played six less years in see Smith,
but they said had the same amount of one thousand
yard seasons. So that's why I say it's it's tough
(11:12):
man like you said, when you talk about such a
limited amount, and I think that's why it is such
a hallowed hollow ground, and you know, such an honor
to be picked for this, because it is really tough.
You have a lot of great players, and you know,
I do subscribe to the A Joe adage of if
you have to think about it a little bit, then
the guy's not a Hall of Famer. But I'm with
(11:32):
you in that. With Steve Smith, I don't have to
think about it that's at all. But I think with
Larry Fitzgel, he's a quicker just right off the top
of my ads. Soon as you say lair, I'm like, yeah,
hall of Famer.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
The insult is Tory Holt. Tory Holt should not be
on this list. He should not be in Wall, he
should not be in over Steve Smith. He played with
a great much better quarterback.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I was, but he was one of the reasons why
they were great. Tory Hope was, so.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Was Isaac Bruce, who was the He was the other
great receiver that Steve Smith played with.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Nobody like I love moves.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
I love moves, but come on, man, he's that's not.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
A great receiver. And what great quarterback. Did he play with?
He played with Jake Dolone. I like Jake Delone well,
I think that Jake Dolone is a borderline Hall of
Fame type quarter.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Have you looked at Toy Hell's.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
The thing about Steve Smith's fine, It's not better than Smitty's.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
It's it's there is a peak for Tory that is
a little longer. But that's the thing. This is what happens.
This is what gets me so mad. Is that then
we start comparing Steve Smith to all these other wide
receivers that are on the outside. Tory should be a
Hall of Famer, no question, Tory is that good.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
That's why I said, old guy, They're all deserving. It's stupid.
There is no reasoning to keep him out.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
It is flat out stupid to keep Tory hold out
of the Hall of Fame. It is stupid to keep
Smitty out. That's why Bagel Guy his first thing in
response to me saying Smitty should be in the first
sentence that he writes Smitty was not better than Larry,
who said he was.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
How would you how would you change how would you
change it? What would you want them to do? I
don't know what destriction should be.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
All I know is that when these clear Hall of famers,
I'm not asking the question. I'm not having a hard
time trying to figure out if they should be in.
Steve Smith is a top ten wide receiver all time
in terms of receiving yards. Steve Smith, longevity, peak, postseason, performer,
all of it. What else do you want him to do?
(13:24):
What has he not done to keep him out of
the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Win a ring? Because I'm like, all right, so what
do you want him to do?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Larry Fitzgerald didn't, but we clearly think that he should
be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Larry Fergerald got to the Super Bowl, so did Smitty.
There's not a guy on this list that you would
be like, yo, they're not deserving, Like these are all
phenomenal players.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Well, if we're looking at some of the other, like
if we're looking Jehori Evans, come on, bro.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
No you can't. He ain't putting him in. But you
can't do that because you'll be a position bias. But
he was sick. God wasn't more impactful than this is
what we do.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
This is what we do. Though, that's what we do.
We don't have to do carry carrying down great players.
That's unfortunately what you get into. And I'm gonna be
honest with you. I love him, I think he should
be in. I'll make my case for him. Smitty should
be in over I love you, but.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Come on, Jarry Evans is a five time All Pro
and an All Decade Team member. Jarry Evans is in,
but he's more to their team. But that's position bias
because you can't say that though, because he was a
part of those great sayings offenses and he was a
star wart at his position. So I right, that's position bias.
I have yet to hear I really haven't.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I haven't heard a I haven't heard a good argument,
let alone acceptable one or accept so overrated.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Who are these people?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I haven't heard any argument that I deemed acceptable to
keep Smitty out of the Hall of Famer. I just
don't know what you can go to. What in the
world would you go to to say that he is
not in a Hall of Famer. It's why I think
it's blasphemous that Luke Kickley isn't in. The Only argument
is the longevity. But man, when you're that good and
immediately a Hall of Famer off of the rip. You're
(15:05):
a rookie, and your defensive Rookie of the year and
your defensive player of the year. I believe his second
season in the league. Oh okay, we have one of
the best linebackers of all time right here, right now,
he's going to give us the best linebacker title of
the two thousands. With regards to Bobby Wagner, luke Kei
Lee was better than Wagner. Like luke Kei Clee should
be a Hall of Famer, and he might get in now.
(15:27):
I think he'll get in this go around, and he
deserves it. But I just are we going to celebrate
the best players of all time or not?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
No?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Because how many okay, how many guys they put in?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Six?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, So what you have here is you have fifteen
finalists and the latest reduction to fifteen. Now the rules
will say that you have to have I need to
look this up to figure out how many people will
get in.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
It says right here.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
The selection Committee may elect up to five modern era
players for twenty twenty six. Each must receive a minimum
vote of eighty percent for election.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So out of the five, if we if we we're
a little behind but I guess we could get into
it on the other side. But I guess we could
pick out who we think would be the no doubters
that's going to get in out of that five because
it's a few guys on here I think will probably
be no doubters. It's just hard at that wide receiver position.
Look how long it took our Monk and some of
those old heads to get in.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Man, it took them decade plus doesn't get in, which
means there's a problem of the system it is.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
But then it's like, how do you fix it because
it's so hard to do because let's say, even if
we go ten and we pick and let's say you
put a limit on east position, like let's say you
take two from each position every year, that's still going
to be extremely difficult to be able to decipher who
those two should be every year. It's so difficult. We'll
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Coming up next alongside the live wire will play some
sound with Flound. Sports Radio ninety two to seven WFNZ
(17:06):
wes'n Walker back still talking about the Hall of Fame
during the break. Sports Rady ninety two seven WFNZ seven
oh four number riding in on the fandul text line.
Smidi was also responsible for a higher percentage of his
team's passing yards, touchdowns, and attempts than any one of
the Hall of Fame peers at the wide receiver position. Yeah,
they did force feed them. And when you force feed him,
(17:27):
he also delivered on the force feeding that Jake Deloan
was doing to him alongside what was also a good
wide receiver. You know my theory, I think Steve Smith
should get in. I don't understand why we're keeping some
of the best football players of all time out and
then you see some of these other players, right, that's
what happens is well, okay, he shouldn't be in over
this guy when it doesn't have to be that way.
(17:48):
We could just have a question with the process as
to why they're doing it this way when so many
legit Hall of famers are on the outside looking in.
The other finalists that we're speaking of, by the way,
we already mentioned Tory Holt. You also have tackle Willie Anderson.
You have kicker Adam Vinti. Yeah, he's a finalist as well.
The other eleven finalists Drew Brees, jarr Evans, Larry Fitzgerald,
(18:11):
Frank Gore, Eli Manning, Terrell Suggs, Reggie Wayne, Kevin Williams,
Jason Witten, Darren Woodson, and Marshall Yonda. Those are the guys,
Those are the finalists. What are the most interesting names
here for you that you actually could go either way
on and you don't think is no doubt or Hall
of Famer that it really does take some time to
(18:31):
think on it.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I would go. I would immediately look at Kevin Williams,
the interior defensive lineman. I do remember he was a
dominant force during his time, but I think that he's
a player that will be waiting a while, but I
do remember, like I said, But then, god, it's like
you you think this about these guys, but then you
go look at that career accolades and then you're like,
(18:53):
holy smokes, because he's an All Decade. Yeah, he's an
All Decade team guy. He's got five first Team All Pro.
So then you're like, oh, he shouldn't go just because
the name doesn't immediately come to the front of your mind.
But a five like that's a differentiator too. When you
are a first team All Pro five times, like that's
(19:14):
that's impressive. So That's why I'm like, it's so hard
to do this. I don't know what the solution is.
It's like, do you just take all fifteen and then
we'll be sitting there all day, Like the NFL Draft
used to be listening to these speeches from all these
guys that get in, because it's like, you really can't
pick anybody and say they're not deserving.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
So the guys that I think you could have a
legitimate debate about, I'm not saying one way or the
other that they're not Hall of famers, but the guys
that I would go back and forth on, how do
we feel about Adam vent Terry getting in?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I to me, he was a guy that I looked at.
They could be a first ballot. Is this his first
time being a final he was there last year? Okay, well,
then I guess he wouldn't be a first So then
I'll I'll change my opinion there. I'll say, I think
you I think if he didn't get in the first time,
I don't know that he'll get in this time. He
may wait a little bit. Do you think he should
be in? Yes?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Okay, yeah, And that goes to the theory greatest class kickout.
If you are the best at your position, then you
should probably be in. Adam Vinataire. It's the argument for
Devin Hester because the impact on a football game it
was big, but was it as big as these wide
receivers that are on the field way more often than
what Devin Hester was So if you argue it from
(20:24):
that standpoint, maybe Hester shouldn't be in. But if you're
just talking about among the best return men of all time,
you could argue any representation, So then that's the guy.
But just the positions that aren't on the field as often,
then maybe that's the debate there the other guys that
we talked about, it's hard with some of the defensive
(20:45):
linemen like Kevin Williams, even if he wasn't a monster
SAT guy. And I need to look up the stats again,
because you're right, being at all Pro first teamer for
half a decade is absolutely wild. Yeah, absolutely, he wasn't
a monster SAT guy. He had sixty three total, but
that's also at the defensive tackle position. Really, you're talking
(21:06):
about a lot of run stuffing with a decent amount
of pass rush. I'll be honest with you, I don't
know how much I can truly evaluate all the way
back then in the early two thousands, before I knew
what I was looking at watching them and Pat Williams. Right,
but I know the names. I know that I know
them well. I know that they were good and they
were constantly in the backfield. I don't know with some
of the events whatever. Right, the dude was a baller.
(21:28):
Ken Williams should get in. Eli Manning, that's the one
I'm looking over there at the producer Floundy Tony Paggs.
Is he coming out if we start talking about Eli
Manning's Hall of Fame candidacy, H I.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
Mean, look, I don't think he should be in this year,
not with the group of guys that you have there.
But do I think he should eventually be in?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yes? Will he get in?
Speaker 5 (21:47):
Probably not, because if you look at all the people
that are going to be having a chance to get
in in future years, I don't really know how he
gets in. I thought if he was going to get in,
he would be in last year. I think he should
be there. Yes, I believe he is one of the
most clutch quarterbacks you will ever find. When it came
playoff time, he found a way to win, and he
(22:08):
beat the greatest quarterback of all time twice.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yes, so I think he should be a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
People are gonna disagree with me, but when you look
at the stats, he's also top ten and a lot
of the passing stats, so he's got that go that
to go with them. When you get to the argument
of was he a top five quarterback during his time
in the league, there is maybe one season that you
can make that argument, and it's not even one of
the super Bowl years, So that would you're Yeah, honestly,
(22:36):
I think he's debatable.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
What do you think about Terresa?
Speaker 5 (22:40):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I think he was one of the best pass rushers.
You think he first ballot guy? I'll be honest with you, Yes, Okay.
The reason I believe that he should be a first
ballot guy is because I am one that believes you're
either in or you're not the first ballot, second ballot.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I don't how do we how do we measure that?
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Okay, if you're no doubt or then you're a first ballot.
I had to think about it a little bit. So
now you're a second like, are you in or not?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Well?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I think it just I think because of the numbers
you have to pick from, and then when you consider
the guys that come in after you, So like, all right,
let's just say you had a quarterback sitting there. I
don't know this, like an Eli Manning. Right, But then
just for the sake of argument, let's just say that
you know his brother came in a year after him.
Then it's like, all right, then you say, all right,
if we're only gonna take one quarterback, now I'm gonna
(23:28):
take Payton because he was the better. Like That's the
thing that makes it hard is the new guys that
infiltrate the mix the next year.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Well, so when these guys are eligible, I can't believe
I'm saying this because and I am stealing this from
Flounder who said it during the break. My issue with
the Baseball Hall of Fame voting process is that you
can get however many guys you want in the Hall
of Fame. That's correct, right, There's not a limit on
how many people can make the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
You're in and year out. No, No, as far as
I know, there is no limit.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Now it might there might be a limit, and we
just don't know about it because they are such stiff
that they do not let anybody in.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
But I do.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Believe as long as you get over seventy five percent
of the vote, you are allowed into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
That's my issue is that once we start pinning these
guys against one another, well, he's not Larry Fitzgerald, so
we shouldn't let him in. Okay, this is what I
love from Smithy from the City. Because I was waiting
for this comment, I got a couple of them. If
it were up to Walker, the Hall of Fame would
be way too watered down. Is there a player that
I have mentioned that I believe is a for sure
fire Hall of Famer that anybody has disagreed with you?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
No, And I'm with you there, And that's why I say,
that's the conundrum with all of this is that you
do want to make it extra special. And that's the
hardest part about it because you hear a lot of
the Hall of famers say, well, is it going to
be the Hall of Good or is it going to
be the Hall of great or the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Good?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That's what I'm saying. So yeah, So, but you do
want to make it extra special. So that's the problem.
You run into It's like, all right, well, if we
do numbers and we put in fifteen guys a year,
then how specially is it going to be if we
limit it to those five. That's why those guys are
crying when they get those boxes. So Frank Gore is
an interesting case to me. Yeah, I'm not so sure
that Frank Gore should be in. Yes, and the longevity
(25:09):
check on that because he's got sixteen thousand rushing yards,
which is third all time. Yes, So I would understand
wanting to include the guy that is third on the
all time rushing list. The other thing is, okay, what
are the constant things you have to check off? Longevity
and peak. It was the exact reason I think Steve
smith should be in, because there's just not an argument
against it. He was the best player at his position,
(25:31):
He played for a long time, he played meaningful moments.
Smithy should get in. With Frank Gore. You don't get
to check off that he was the best at his
position ever. But I think then you can also check
off consistency, and he was consistently was one thousand yard
Russia really eleven hundred and above for quite some time.
So I think that's something you can say to offset that,
(25:51):
the fact that he was just a consistent guy. You
knew when you line Frank Gore I used to call
him jeezy, when you used to line him up in
the backfield, you knew you were going to get a
thousand out of him. And we can't Also, you know,
downplay what he did in the receiving game. He had
multiple years of fifty plus catches, you know, over four
hundred close to five hundred yards, and a lot of
seasons as well. I mean he also has another thirty
(26:13):
nine hundred and eighty five receiving yards as well to
his total. So he's got nineteen thousand, nine hundred and
eighty five scrimmage yards for his career. Yeah, I think alternate.
He's an all decade guy.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I think ultimately I would side with putting him in
because I think he is the poster player, the poster
child for consistency at a spot that doesn't play fifteen years. Yeah,
this was somebody that played from two thousand and five
to twenty twenty. I'm sorry, sixteen years at that position
(26:45):
where you are at least solid all the way up
until let's call it twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen. I
mean even got some carries with Buffalo and the Jets.
This is where careers go to die. If you ask
Albo and I.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Mean he's six hundred for oh O g that's thirty six,
and you come in and get six hundred yards rushing
and then another six fifty three in your final year,
I still somewhat impressive. It is.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I would side on putting him in. I understand the
argument against it, but ultimately, if if we're going to
put in the players that were best at what they did,
I think Frank Gore, as weird as it may sound,
was the best at.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Just being rock solid forever. He never never quit. Overcame
multiple acls because that was the thing people forget. He
was a tremendous, highlight level running back when you talk
about style before those knee injuries took that away from him.
I mean when he first got to Miami and you
talk about some of the best high school tape you
(27:43):
ever want to watch. I remember watching Frank going high
school man and he would do some ridiculous runs. But
those ACLS took that away from him. So he also
overcame that because I think he had two acls throughout
his career, maybe three. He didn't miss many games.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I don't know if he missed the season that I'm
not paying attention to, but I will say maybe it
happened to the offseason. I don't think it happened too
much during the regular season, which might be another case
for him is that he didn't miss any games.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yeah, I'm sorry he had two acs but they were
both in college.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I figured they would be because that's the thing. Though
played sixteen games twenty twelve through twenty seven, He's never
left the field, and the lowest.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Amount of games that he played in a season in
his career was fourteen.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, so how much do you care about Pete? That's
what it comes down to, if you care about being
a special football player. I don't know if I could
ever say that about Frank Gore being a special football
player as long as some of these other guys, like
all the other players that we've mentioned, but he was
just rock solid for longer than everybody else. I think
that's good enough for me to put him in the
last guy. Have seen a little bit of questioning Jason
(28:46):
Whitten being in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
The thing you got to think about with Jason Witness,
how many tight end records he had when he retired,
because I think he had pretty much most, if not
all of them, so couldn't be wrong, but I think
he did so.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And the other thing, too, is like how much do
you pay attention to the box score compared to how
much you pay attention to what you watched with your eyeballs.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
This is the classic.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Troy Aikman is the poster child of that argument where
you just had to be there to recognize how good
Troy Aikman was, because then when you look at the stats,
it's like, oh my god, what this was? One of
the big three down in Dallas, went in Super Bowls.
These stats aren't impressive. That's a team award, And then
we hold him out of some of these conversations among
the greats with Jason Witten, that's a position that doesn't
(29:32):
go for a thousand yards all that often, and he
had four years of a thousand.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, he's second in career receptions and receiving yards for
a tight end. He played in the most career games
by tight end. He's a four time All Pro and
eleven time Pro Bowler.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
The only other thing about Jason Whitten is my man,
is the king of the checkdown.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
He did Jason Witten.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
If I wanted something dynamic, I wasn't going to him,
and he had four one.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
I mean, how many tight ends are like incredibly dynamic,
like huge, big play.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Let's talk about yeah, one thousand yard seasons too, fifteen
seasons with at least sixty cats. So if you care
about this, I just the way I watched him play football,
it didn't feel like he was all that special to me.
So here are the guys that really had a lot
of other stuff outside of just being the check down,
first down guy, which is important. But going to for instance,
(30:22):
AFC West is the best tight end division of all time.
If you go to the AFC West, you have Travis Kelce,
Tony Gonzalez, Kellen Winslow, Antonio Gates. Just unbelieve all those
guys dynamic at their position and could do extra stuff
rather than just move the chains. Shannon Sharp is somebody
I didn't even bring up. I don't think Shannon Sharp
in the AFC West just a ridiculous tight end division.
So you have five right there that I would immediately
(30:44):
go to and say, oh, okay, was Jason ever? Did
he ever bring me the feelings that those guys did
with the box scores?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Incredible? Yeah, I'm about to say I will say he
averages ten point six yards a catch for his career.
He had a stretch of six straight seasons where he
was a seven yards per catch or better. But like
I said, he retired with a career ten point six
yards a catch. I can't say anything.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
He killed the Giants, so anytime that we would play him,
he would always put up huge games. I always thought
he was a really good title command. Now would I
say that he was Tony Gonzalees good Antonio Gates. Well,
that's the thing though, you don't know if he's on
that level. So see, I would say he is debatable,
that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
But see, the thing I'll say about him is that
you couldn't stop him. You knew that he was a
primary target in that passing game and he was going
to get his numbers. Like I said, fifteen years was
sixty catchers or more, career ten yards per catch. He's
got multiple one thousand yard receiving seasons. For guy that
(31:46):
you look at him and say, yeah, he's big and
he's not the fastest. But he's got one thousand yard
seasons under his belt. And again, you knew when you
played the Cowboys Jason Witten was a threat. He was
a primary threat in that passing game, and you still
couldn't stop him.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Broke a couple things, Smitty from the City. Wait, Kellen
Winslow is a Hall of Famer. Let's just be real clear.
It's his dad. If you're thinking about Kellen Winslow junior,
he is not a Hall of Famer. His dad is
one of the best tight ends of all time and
is a deserve the sun.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Will not even be a Hall of Fame semi finalist.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
You brought you brought up the yards per reception. It's
actually bad. Jason Witten being at eleven per catch isn't good.
Like Travis Kelcey has two years less than that in
his entire career. Shannon Sharp has very few years that
are less than that. Like, that's the thing. Check down, baby,
Do you want to put the best checkdown receiver of
all time in the Hall of Fame? If you believe
(32:41):
that that has a ton of value which move in
the chains it matters, man, then maybe you want to
put him in. But when I think of, oh my god,
I am scared to death of that guy. Did he
instill the type of fear in you that those other
tight ends did? And I would tell you no. I
would imagine defensive backs and linebackers alike would say that
he did not instill the type of fear that the
other tight ends did.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, I mean, And this is another thing with styles too,
because I feel like styles playing into a lot of
people's opinions too, because he wasn't dynamic. He was not
that for sure, but like you said, chain over and
he was a guy that you could not stop. He
wasn't the big, the fastest, or the quickest do but
he found ways to get open and make those catches.
So I mean, he was a guy that when you
played Dallas, yeah, you were like, okay, yeah, we're gonna
(33:24):
have to deal with Jason Whitten, and he was gonna
give you that work more than likely. And like I said,
he might not have been the most dynamic guy as
far as athleticism, but you know he was gonna he's
gonna give you the business.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Like for another instance, here is you know, Jason Whitten
never had twelve yards perception. He got close a couple
of times, but Greg Olsen has won two, three, four,
five like this.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
That's how it is.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
That that's that's why people are questioning Jason Witten. Last
thing here TC says is Julio Jones the Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Hell yeah, even though he might get you know, team
catches for two hundred yards and then be missing for
three weeks, but.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
You might have three hundred yards if Ben a been
Wickery has anything to say about it, three bills.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, he definitely is a Hall of Famer. But I'll
say that real quick to your argument. Greg Olsen only
has him by yard in career yards per catch. He's
eleven seven, but he's got multiple seasons with eleven too well.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And I'm not even saying Greg Olsen to Hall of Famer.
I'm just saying that Greg Olsen for five years, had
a higher peak than Jason Witten in terms of being
a dynamic guy. Like you're talking about the yards. He
had three one thousand yard seasons at his peak and
had the five years where he was twelve yards perception.
I'm not saying greg should be in. It's just when
you talk about talk about what Jason Witten was Jason
Went wasn't doing anything outside of catching the football and
(34:41):
going straight to the ground. That's what it was now
that I disagree with. I watched a lot of Jason Witten. Man,
he was good after the Cats, bro, he was good
after the catch. I'm actually kind of shocked, to be
honest with you, he was he was good after the Cats. No,
he was good after the Cats.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Man.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
What I don't know if you was running around and
your under rules of what you were doing then, but
Jason Went was a good play.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Which is why I'm surprised that me and diapers has
a better opinion on this than you, and not because,
like I said, Greg Olsen has multiple seasons where he
had the same type of yards per catch as Jason Witten,
and he was perceived to be more dynamic. Greg Olsen
five times in his career did something Jason Witten didn't
do once. What's that get twelve yards per reception?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Okay, but this is very much semantics because I can
point to multiple season Jason Went was eleven five, eleven eight,
eleven nine, eleven eight, So eleven nine, eleven seven, so
that's essentially twelve yards a catch. Oh well, okay, then
hold on like you because you're splitting hairs between eight
yards per catch, but they're very similar, and for his
(35:44):
career he only averages less than So you're saying if
we expand the pool, now we can get we get
to count some ad that. I'm just saying, he averages
one point one more yards per catch during his career
than Jason Witten. So that kind of debunks your checkdown.
We're target we're talking about Pete. Yeah, so that's what
we're saying.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm not saying Greg Olsen should be in I'm saying
that there's a reason that Jason Witten isn't considered to
be this impressive guy.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
And I think that's because people look at the style
on which he played and he wasn't the most exciting player,
but he was a very effective players.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I'm saying, I can we look this up for real?
Like I really Jason Whitten being good after the catch.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I watch Cowboys tons of Cowboys games with him playing.
I played against him in college. Jason Witton was a
really really good play. He's a first round pick and
then he would he lived up to that potential. So
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Fair enough, fair enough, we'll move on Jason Whitten. See
y'all say, I'm the one that lets everybody in. Wes
is the one that lets everybody in.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
To get in a really good player Hall of Fame.
All of them should be in. We'll move all.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
We got one more segment to go. It's wesn Walker
Sports Rate Night at U seven w FNZ.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Are you challenge me to a walk off? Oh yeah,
that's a walk off challenge, my friend.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
It's a walk off, the walk off Papa West doing
the age things.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
That's a fact. Uh So, man, this is getting Jason.
Jason is getting you guys fired? Is this is this
gonna be by moment?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
So this was my only argument about the debate because
this just so everybody knows, this lasted during the break
and Wes is getting frustrated in that he was Wes
is seemingly frustrated that I was apparently wrong on is
that he's.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Saying, hie pitched. He's frustrated.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
So he is saying to me that he watched Jason
Witten play. Therefore he knows and I do not, you
are doing the age thing here. So if that is
the case, and all I was saying was that Jason
Whitten didn't do all that much in yards per reception.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
You caught him a check down tight end with thirteen
thousand yards.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
That's how you do it with a million different targets.
It still was valuable. And I talked about that, right,
like how many times did I say, if you want
to put him in, I get it because there's not
many tight ends that go for a thousand yards as
many times as he did in his career. So it
makes sense to me what I was saying was, and man,
this is what's so like to me hard to believe here. Man,
(38:42):
it's a fact, Like you look at the yard like
they're right here, and that's all I'm saying. That Shannon
Sharp had ten more years, ten years better at yards
per reception than Jason Whitten. Never posted once in his
entire life, and he.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Has twelve point six yards podcast for his career to
Jason Winton's ten points.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And that's actually a big difference. It is like if
you talk about ten but that's kind of wild, right?
Can you give me that that he had a decade's
long worth of production more than Jason Whitten in yards
percent ten years? That's kind of wild? You don't like it.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Wes just gave me an evil stare, but he's not.
It's not an evil stare. But the Panthers don't have
a tight end. This has eleven yards per catch. Oh,
Tommy Tremble said in eight eight, and we up here
talking about eleven is something to sneeze it. Oh my god,
the Panthers tight ends. Yeah, but I'm just saying, but
you act like you would take an eleven yard per
(39:40):
catch tight end right now, all day, every day. Yeah,
So that's what I'm saying. Oh, okay, eleven yards, that's
a really healthy yards per catch.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
If you're saying to me that I would rather have
Jason Whitten than Tommy Tremble, Mitchell Levin's and j T.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Sanders, I am not here to argue that Jason's a
great player, but I feel like you deduced his accomplishments
by calling him a check down tight end when that's
not what he was. What was he He was a
guy like you said when we read the AI description,
which I know we talked about aim, but I watched
him and it was accurate. You could say, okay all day,
but he would take short catches and he was good
after the catch. He would take a short catch and
(40:17):
turn it into a first down because he was good
after the catch.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
This is what we can get it on same page
on when you bring up the Panthers tight ends in
twenty twenty five to the equation, you have to understand,
I am not here to argue that Jason Witten better
than Tommy Trimble at yards perception. I'm not here to
argue that it's was the Walker baby with the walk
off on sports Raded ninety two seven WFNZ. And it's
(40:41):
time now for what's on tap as we move away
from this conversation presented by Twin Peaks. Twin Peaks has
locations in Concord and Fort Mill. Twin Peaks is your
local sports lodes you can come in from, made from
scratch food and signature twenty nine degree draft beers and
all the scenic views. Tonight, well there's not any NFL football.
All of the fantasy football playoffs are over. By the
way I got it done. Shout out to Matt Stafford
(41:02):
and Pookinakua. I won on the very last play of
the game. And for the Rams that is offensively and
it was the ugliest fantasy football championship that I've ever
participated all in my life, but we did end up
getting it done. Instead, we have to move away from
some of the college football and go to college basketball
because tonight in North Carolina will host Florida State. North
(41:24):
Carolina twelve to one Florida State seven and six UNC
a thirteen and a half point favorite.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Seven pm tip.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
All that leads right over there to the four Corner
Slash Heel Tough blog podcast written content all of it.
How do you feel about this game going gets against
what has been a terrible, terrible acc basketball team in
the seminar, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:46):
Should be an easy one, that should be one that
you should be able to roll over.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Does that mean that the Tarios will do that? Not necessarily.
Speaker 5 (41:53):
You're coming off the holiday break, but it's your first
conference game, so hopefully this team comes out with a
little bit of fire, is ready to you know, put
some points on the board early against a team that
is struggling shooting the ball, even though they shoot the
ball a ton from beyond the arc, not shooting it
great there, not shooting a great inside the arc. Hopefully
(42:14):
this is a team that Carolina can put some distance
between and have a comfortable second half, but we'll have
to see.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, I would like North Carolina to win by a
large margin here. If you're going to take care of
the bad basketball teams and you put them away early,
it's not something that North Carolina has necessarily done.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
In the first half.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I think if you're a tar Heel fan, if they lose,
that's a terrible loss, no no way around that. But
I think you would like to see them win and
cover the thirteen and a half point spread.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, you would like to see that.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Let me rephrase that, if you're a Carolina fan, you
would like to I'd love to.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
See Florida State put a upset. I know they're one
of the worst teams in the league. To me is
them in Boston College, and I think the worst because
Florida State has taken some beat downs that I haven't
seen in college basketball, and from an ACC perspective in
quite some time. It's about thirty. I mean, they have
been absolutely drugged. So I expect Carolina to roll tonight
over the Seminoles.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Okay, so you have North Carolina playing Florida State. All
of us believe that North Carolina will indeed end up
winning that game. Just a few more games left to
talk about here as far as the ACC is concerned,
North Carolina hosting Florida State, Miami hosting Pittsburgh seven o'clock
tip on ACC network, California hosting Louisville Cardinals rank sixteenth
(43:28):
in the country, and Stanford the nightcap nine o'clock tip.
Along with that Louisville game, Stanford hosting Notre Dame on
ESPN two. Anything interesting here the rest of the way
in terms of college basketball games after UNC Florida State.
Speaker 5 (43:43):
Hold on, I gotta go Louisville Cols. Someone interesting. Cal
is off to a twelve and one start. That game
is also in California, so.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Maybe maybe. Yeah. I mean, this isn't great because Notre
Dame right now. I'm not sure if Marcus Burden is
back yet for them. Louisville's been a team that's been
a little underwhelming, Kyle though. You know, they got Scottie Pippenson.
He's balling out for them right now. But I'm not
sure that they can beat Louisville. They'll probably get be
down and then pitting Miami. Yeah, this is not a
(44:14):
great bat.
Speaker 5 (44:15):
Miami should destroy Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was not a good team
in the non conference Jeff Capble.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, they're nine and a half point favorite in this game. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
The only thing I'll say about Louisville is you would
like to see them. They did beat Indiana, they were
a ranked opponent, but against the top notch competition, they
haven't necessarily answered the bell. We thought that they had
a big time win against Kentucky. They were ninth at
the time, but Kentucky is nine and four. They are
now out of the top twenty five, so they won't
have another chance, I think, to prove themselves until they
(44:43):
played Duke just a.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Few games away from now. So we'll see what the
Cardinals are able to do.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
That'll do it. Last show twenty twenty five. We appreciate
all the memories here, folks, We appreciate it very much.
So next time we'll see you Classic. We'll be back
in twenty twenty six, and we will be here to
talk all about what the Panthers were or weren't able
to do here against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Can they win the NFC South. We will discuss.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
We will recap all of it on Monday, and we
have a whole bunch of hodge Podge schedule for you
the rest of the way. Coming up next, it's Kyle
Bailey alongside Smoke Lug with Sports Rated ninety two seven WFNZ.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Listen to the Wes and.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
Walker Show wee teas from noon to three only on
Sports Radio ninety two point seven FMUFNZ, the
Speaker 5 (45:29):
Official home of the Charlotte Sports Fan
This is the Weson Walker show. Yeah, the Rick Flad
documentary was five. It's Wes just came out. It's on Peacock.
It's called WOO. That was good.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Yeah, this man said real quick and Walker it is
called WU. It's not the most glowing view of the title.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Only on Sports Radio ninety two point seven FM wfn Z.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Like I thought there weren to be like a lot
of emphasis on the oh wow, and he was just like,
it's called WU.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
One more hour to go.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
In twenty twenty five on Western Walker Sports Radio ninety
two seven wfn Z, we are still broadcasting live from
the Chandler Volta Studios. CV Injury Law dot Com, CEV
Injury Law dot Com.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
One call.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
That's all the Carolinas personal injury lawyers. We want to
hear from you on the FANDUL text line as always
seven oh four five five seven oh ninety six to ten.
That number again is seven oh four five seven oh
ninety six ten. Have some breaking news coming in really
the Diggs family. Stefan Diggs and Trayvon Diggs both in
the news right now. Oh, Stefon Diggs. For all the
(01:15):
wrong reasons, New England had to put out a statement
out go back to in just a moment. But Trayvon
Diggs actually was just released by the Dallas Cowboys, so
he is out there too.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
He had.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Interestingly enough, you just bought him up yesterday for the
first time not in show history. But we don't talk
about Trayvon Diggs a lot around here. You brought him
up yesterday. Now he's cut. I'm a little worried about
some of these other names that you bring up, but
that's just going to be the conclusion, the result of
you bringing somebody up. But yeah, the Cowboys, they released
two time Pro Bowl cornerback Trayvon Diggs with one game
to play. He's twenty seven years old and he'll go
(01:47):
through waivers. If unclaimed, he will be a free agent.
The move ins a tumultuous last two seasons that has
seen the relationship between the player and organization girl apart.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Once.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Source said the decision to move on from Diggs was
due quote to a culmination of events, including performance. We
had somebody ride in. It was Scary Banana on the
FanDuel text line who said, I don't expect the Panthers
to try to claim Digs off waivers, but at twenty
seven years old. Is he washed or does he just
need a change of scenery. The thing about Trayvon Diggs
(02:18):
is that he goes rogue. He had good instinctive plays
that he made, specifically earlier on in his career, where
he might completely forget about his assignment, but sometimes it
would really pay off. He would just completely ditch his
assignment to go football hunting, and a lot of times
you would go be the ballhawk that he was and
force a turnover. And those plays are extremely valuable. You
(02:40):
could argue outside of touchdowns, maybe that turnovers are the
most valuable play that you can create.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Until he turns around, it gives up a sixty odd touchdown.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Until the two hundred yards he gives up. That's not
great either in the culmination of all of those plays.
And so he was very much so feast or famine.
It was very much so trick or treat with this guy.
It does not feel like Trayvon Diggs has a place
as a starter on this Panthers team.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
J C.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Horn, Mike Jackson, they're going to be on the outside.
You're not putting digs at Nickel. That's still going to
be Smith Wade. So really what you would be doing
if you picked him up, it would all be for
death purposes. And even then, do you want to bring
him in if there are some locker room stuff with him?
Speaker 1 (03:23):
If that's the case.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I don't know enough about it, but this feels like
kind of the culmination of events thing. It feels like
some of that is off of the field and performance.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I think you got not to me, yeah, not to
mention this year he came off of ACL Oh yeah, man,
he's washed, He's on his last days in the league.
You don't want no parts of that. Just to address it.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
The Stefan Diggs stuff real quickly, A more serious note here,
but again both the Diggs brothers are in the news
and we have Steffan Diggs facing very serious accusations. Just
to keep people up to date, New England Patriots wide
receiver Stefon Diggs is facing a fellon each charge of
strangulation and a misdemeanor charge of assault from an alleged
incident on December.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Second.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Emotion hearing took place at eleven am this morning and
a judge decided. A judge is deciding whether to impound
the court documents ahead of Diggs arraignment. January twenty third,
which is the Friday before the AFC Championship Game. The
Patriots did release a statement saying that the Patriots are
aware of the accusations that have been made regarding Stefan Diggs.
(04:26):
Stefan has informed the organization that he categorically denies the allegations.
We support Stefan. We will continue to gather information and
will cooperate fully with the appropriate authorities in the NFL
as necessary. Out of respect for all parties involved, and
given that this is an ongoing legal matter, we will
have no further comment at this time. So clearly, hopefully
(04:47):
everybody is okay. Never know what to say when the
accusations are this fresh, this just coming out within the
last couple of hours, I will say, if you did
want to talk about the football part of it, which
clearly matters way, way less than the actual accusations at hand.
The football part of it is New England might be
without their best wide receiver going into the postseason, but
I guess we'll see how all of this plays out,
(05:09):
and New England has a real issue on their hands.
I also, I will say this, deciding to put in
the statement we support Stefan without gathering all of the
information first. That's a weird sentence to just kind of
throw in the middle of the statement. It feels like
that statement is fine if you remove that part we
support Do you want to support him before you have
(05:30):
all of the evidence info? Okay, could look like you
have some egg on your face if it's these accusations
are true, but we don't know that, and we'll see
how everything unfaults.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, And I mean, this is a guy. It's always
something with Stefan Diggs. I mean, if it's not the babies,
then it was also the thing that came out about
the man that accused him of jumping him because he
refused his advances talking about Stefan Diggs. That was a thing.
Now we have this going on. So with Stefan Diggs,
I mean, not to mention all the locker room issues
at the places that he's been so him man, his
(05:59):
brother as you just talked about it. Man, it just
don't seem like they're great people. And you know, you
hate it for the New England Patriots because you felt
like that he was having a decently quiet year as
far as just really bad off the field stuff, except
for the aforementioned thing. But now we add this to
the mix. So yeah, man, I mean this just is
a guy that's just, you know, just not a good person.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
The summer though, all right, we move on to what
many people believe to be an excellent person in Luke Keighley.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Hard to deny it.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Luke Keighley is again a finalist for the Pro Football
Hall of Fame. However, his former teammate Steve Smith. He
fell short in the latest reduction to fifteen, which was
announced Tuesday morning. Reading an article really directly here from
Darrengan on Panthers dot Com, with the news coming in
Luke Keighley, we can applaud him for being named a
top fifteen finalist going into the Hall of Fame, but
(06:47):
against Steve Smith, he fell short again. And there's new
rules now with the way that the writers divvy up
all of their votes and how many people are allowed
in or allowed to move on to the next level.
Real I'll try to simplify it as much as I can,
but finalists from the previous year generally would advance the
following year, and then, particularly in the days when five
(07:10):
modern candidates a year were chosen to make the finals,
that was something that you would see where those guys
would advance. This year, there were twelve leftover finalists from
twenty twenty five, so that's three less. And so when
four first year eligible players made the final fifteen last
year and Drew Brees, Larry Fitzgerald, and Frank Gore, Jason
Witten also in that list along with the first time
(07:31):
finalists who was previously eligible, ten holdover finalists excuse me,
and ten holdover finalists. That meant two of the last
year's final fifteen were out in the cold. So if
there are two guys on the outside looking in that
would usually make the next step, Steve Smith and Fred
Taylor are the guys that are on the outside looking
(07:53):
in that would typically move on and graduate to the
next level. You know, if I think about Steve Smith,
he should absolutely be a Hall of Famer, and really
I don't think there's any question about it, and I
know that it could sound like a homer. But at
the same time, the reason I feel so strongly about
Steve Smith being in the Hall of Fame and having
an issue with the Hall of Fame voting process is
I really don't think that the argument is debatable I
(08:16):
feel that strongly. I don't think there's a good reason
to keep Steve Smith out of the Hall of Fame
with everything that he's accomplished. My issue is, as the
Hall of Fame, do you want to celebrate the best
football players of all time? And if the answer to
that question is yes, then you have to celebrate Steve Smith.
He is one of the best football players to ever
(08:36):
suit up. If you want to celebrate those players, the
players that you supposedly are supposed to celebrate, then Steve
Smith should begin. Yet here we are again with him
being on the outside looking in. All of the arguments
against players making the Hall of Fame, what are they?
Some of the arguments are, well, he didn't do it
for long enough. Nope, can't say that about Smithy. He
(08:59):
played forever. Well, his peak wasn't all that impressive. Was
he truly ever the best player at his position? Did
that ever happen? How about the Triple Crown year and five?
That's pretty good. Where you led all receivers in every
major category, Where you led the NFL in receptions, receiving touchdowns,
and receiving yards. Okay, so he was quite literally the
best wide receiver. Did he show up for the big moments.
(09:21):
A lot of playoff performances were he's shown up ex clown.
We all remember what he did to Charles Tillman in
the Chicago Bear Secondary. We remember him having a Super
Bowl touchdown. So longevity, check peak, check doing it in
the postseason? Check, were you the best player at your position? Check?
Top ten all time in receiving yards. He's a top
(09:43):
ten receiver all time in that category.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Check.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Just doesn't make any sense to me other than the
Hall of Fame voting process being too strict. So we
can say, well, he doesn't deserve to be in over
some of these other guys. Let the best football players
in the Hall of Fame. It's really simple. Yeah, it's
so tough, and I'm with you. I do believe he's
a Hall of Famer. And that's the thing they've always
talked about, the log jam at wide receiver, and I
(10:07):
would imagine out of this group of guys, they're only
going to pick one receiver, I would imagine. And so
that's the thing that's tough because I think Fitzgerald's first
ballot guy, and so that's gonna probably push it back
again if they do decide to only go with one
ride receiver. All of these receivers that they have up
here are very deserving and so that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And I think the big comparison is, you know, you
would look at Hope and Steve Smith AND's would and
say which one if you would have picked between those
two guys. But then also you're going to have a
new guy that's gonna come like we had Andre Johnson.
They got in on the first ballot, if I'm not mistaken.
So there's gonna be new guys that are gonna keep
coming up as well that are going to be there
at that position. So that's the tough part. I'm with you.
(10:49):
I do believe that Steve Smith Singer is a Hall
of Famer. It's just the log jam and the people
that are in there with him. Because if you look
at you know, maybe him and Tory Holt, if you pick,
I think that the Hall of Fame voters, they're going
to value the championship rings. They're going to you know,
he had he played six less years in see Smith,
but they said had the same amount of one thousand
yard seasons. So that's why I say it's it's tough
(11:12):
man like you said, when you talk about such a
limited amount, and I think that's why it is such
a hallowed hollow ground, and you know, such an honor
to be picked for this, because it is really tough.
You have a lot of great players, and you know,
I do subscribe to the A Joe adage of if
you have to think about it a little bit, then
the guy's not a Hall of Famer. But I'm with
(11:32):
you in that. With Steve Smith, I don't have to
think about it that's at all. But I think with
Larry Fitzgel, he's a quicker just right off the top
of my ads. Soon as you say lair, I'm like, yeah,
hall of Famer.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
The insult is Tory Holt. Tory Holt should not be
on this list. He should not be in Wall, he
should not be in over Steve Smith. He played with
a great much better quarterback.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I was, but he was one of the reasons why
they were great. Tory Hope was, so.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Was Isaac Bruce, who was the He was the other
great receiver that Steve Smith played with.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Nobody like I love moves.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
I love moves, but come on, man, he's that's not.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
A great receiver. And what great quarterback. Did he play with?
He played with Jake Dolone. I like Jake Delone well,
I think that Jake Dolone is a borderline Hall of
Fame type quarter.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Have you looked at Toy Hell's.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
The thing about Steve Smith's fine, It's not better than Smitty's.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
It's it's there is a peak for Tory that is
a little longer. But that's the thing. This is what happens.
This is what gets me so mad. Is that then
we start comparing Steve Smith to all these other wide
receivers that are on the outside. Tory should be a
Hall of Famer, no question, Tory is that good.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
That's why I said, old guy, They're all deserving. It's stupid.
There is no reasoning to keep him out.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
It is flat out stupid to keep Tory hold out
of the Hall of Fame. It is stupid to keep
Smitty out. That's why Bagel Guy his first thing in
response to me saying Smitty should be in the first
sentence that he writes Smitty was not better than Larry,
who said he was.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
How would you how would you change how would you
change it? What would you want them to do? I
don't know what destriction should be.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
All I know is that when these clear Hall of famers,
I'm not asking the question. I'm not having a hard
time trying to figure out if they should be in.
Steve Smith is a top ten wide receiver all time
in terms of receiving yards. Steve Smith, longevity, peak, postseason, performer,
all of it. What else do you want him to do?
(13:24):
What has he not done to keep him out of
the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Win a ring? Because I'm like, all right, so what
do you want him to do?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Larry Fitzgerald didn't, but we clearly think that he should
be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Larry Fergerald got to the Super Bowl, so did Smitty.
There's not a guy on this list that you would
be like, yo, they're not deserving, Like these are all
phenomenal players.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Well, if we're looking at some of the other, like
if we're looking Jehori Evans, come on, bro.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
No you can't. He ain't putting him in. But you
can't do that because you'll be a position bias. But
he was sick. God wasn't more impactful than this is
what we do.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
This is what we do. Though, that's what we do.
We don't have to do carry carrying down great players.
That's unfortunately what you get into. And I'm gonna be
honest with you. I love him, I think he should
be in. I'll make my case for him. Smitty should
be in over I love you, but.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Come on, Jarry Evans is a five time All Pro
and an All Decade Team member. Jarry Evans is in,
but he's more to their team. But that's position bias
because you can't say that though, because he was a
part of those great sayings offenses and he was a
star wart at his position. So I right, that's position bias.
I have yet to hear I really haven't.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I haven't heard a I haven't heard a good argument,
let alone acceptable one or accept so overrated.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Who are these people?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I haven't heard any argument that I deemed acceptable to
keep Smitty out of the Hall of Famer. I just
don't know what you can go to. What in the
world would you go to to say that he is
not in a Hall of Famer. It's why I think
it's blasphemous that Luke Kickley isn't in. The Only argument
is the longevity. But man, when you're that good and
immediately a Hall of Famer off of the rip. You're
(15:05):
a rookie, and your defensive Rookie of the year and
your defensive player of the year. I believe his second
season in the league. Oh okay, we have one of
the best linebackers of all time right here, right now,
he's going to give us the best linebacker title of
the two thousands. With regards to Bobby Wagner, luke Kei
Lee was better than Wagner. Like luke Kei Clee should
be a Hall of Famer, and he might get in now.
(15:27):
I think he'll get in this go around, and he
deserves it. But I just are we going to celebrate
the best players of all time or not?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
No?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Because how many okay, how many guys they put in?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Six?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, So what you have here is you have fifteen
finalists and the latest reduction to fifteen. Now the rules
will say that you have to have I need to
look this up to figure out how many people will
get in.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
It says right here.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
The selection Committee may elect up to five modern era
players for twenty twenty six. Each must receive a minimum
vote of eighty percent for election.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So out of the five, if we if we we're
a little behind but I guess we could get into
it on the other side. But I guess we could
pick out who we think would be the no doubters
that's going to get in out of that five because
it's a few guys on here I think will probably
be no doubters. It's just hard at that wide receiver position.
Look how long it took our Monk and some of
those old heads to get in.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Man, it took them decade plus doesn't get in, which
means there's a problem of the system it is.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
But then it's like, how do you fix it because
it's so hard to do because let's say, even if
we go ten and we pick and let's say you
put a limit on east position, like let's say you
take two from each position every year, that's still going
to be extremely difficult to be able to decipher who
those two should be every year. It's so difficult. We'll
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Coming up next alongside the live wire will play some
sound with Flound. Sports Radio ninety two to seven WFNZ
(17:06):
wes'n Walker back still talking about the Hall of Fame
during the break. Sports Rady ninety two seven WFNZ seven
oh four number riding in on the fandul text line.
Smidi was also responsible for a higher percentage of his
team's passing yards, touchdowns, and attempts than any one of
the Hall of Fame peers at the wide receiver position. Yeah,
they did force feed them. And when you force feed him,
(17:27):
he also delivered on the force feeding that Jake Deloan
was doing to him alongside what was also a good
wide receiver. You know my theory, I think Steve Smith
should get in. I don't understand why we're keeping some
of the best football players of all time out and
then you see some of these other players, right, that's
what happens is well, okay, he shouldn't be in over
this guy when it doesn't have to be that way.
(17:48):
We could just have a question with the process as
to why they're doing it this way when so many
legit Hall of famers are on the outside looking in.
The other finalists that we're speaking of, by the way,
we already mentioned Tory Holt. You also have tackle Willie Anderson.
You have kicker Adam Vinti. Yeah, he's a finalist as well.
The other eleven finalists Drew Brees, jarr Evans, Larry Fitzgerald,
(18:11):
Frank Gore, Eli Manning, Terrell Suggs, Reggie Wayne, Kevin Williams,
Jason Witten, Darren Woodson, and Marshall Yonda. Those are the guys,
Those are the finalists. What are the most interesting names
here for you that you actually could go either way
on and you don't think is no doubt or Hall
of Famer that it really does take some time to
(18:31):
think on it.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I would go. I would immediately look at Kevin Williams,
the interior defensive lineman. I do remember he was a
dominant force during his time, but I think that he's
a player that will be waiting a while, but I
do remember, like I said, But then, god, it's like
you you think this about these guys, but then you
go look at that career accolades and then you're like,
(18:53):
holy smokes, because he's an All Decade. Yeah, he's an
All Decade team guy. He's got five first Team All Pro.
So then you're like, oh, he shouldn't go just because
the name doesn't immediately come to the front of your mind.
But a five like that's a differentiator too. When you
are a first team All Pro five times, like that's
(19:14):
that's impressive. So That's why I'm like, it's so hard
to do this. I don't know what the solution is.
It's like, do you just take all fifteen and then
we'll be sitting there all day, Like the NFL Draft
used to be listening to these speeches from all these
guys that get in, because it's like, you really can't
pick anybody and say they're not deserving.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
So the guys that I think you could have a
legitimate debate about, I'm not saying one way or the
other that they're not Hall of famers, but the guys
that I would go back and forth on, how do
we feel about Adam vent Terry getting in?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I to me, he was a guy that I looked at.
They could be a first ballot. Is this his first
time being a final he was there last year? Okay, well,
then I guess he wouldn't be a first So then
I'll I'll change my opinion there. I'll say, I think
you I think if he didn't get in the first time,
I don't know that he'll get in this time. He
may wait a little bit. Do you think he should
be in? Yes?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Okay, yeah, And that goes to the theory greatest class kickout.
If you are the best at your position, then you
should probably be in. Adam Vinataire. It's the argument for
Devin Hester because the impact on a football game it
was big, but was it as big as these wide
receivers that are on the field way more often than
what Devin Hester was So if you argue it from
(20:24):
that standpoint, maybe Hester shouldn't be in. But if you're
just talking about among the best return men of all time,
you could argue any representation, So then that's the guy.
But just the positions that aren't on the field as often,
then maybe that's the debate there the other guys that
we talked about, it's hard with some of the defensive
(20:45):
linemen like Kevin Williams, even if he wasn't a monster
SAT guy. And I need to look up the stats again,
because you're right, being at all Pro first teamer for
half a decade is absolutely wild. Yeah, absolutely, he wasn't
a monster SAT guy. He had sixty three total, but
that's also at the defensive tackle position. Really, you're talking
(21:06):
about a lot of run stuffing with a decent amount
of pass rush. I'll be honest with you, I don't
know how much I can truly evaluate all the way
back then in the early two thousands, before I knew
what I was looking at watching them and Pat Williams. Right,
but I know the names. I know that I know
them well. I know that they were good and they
were constantly in the backfield. I don't know with some
of the events whatever. Right, the dude was a baller.
(21:28):
Ken Williams should get in. Eli Manning, that's the one
I'm looking over there at the producer Floundy Tony Paggs.
Is he coming out if we start talking about Eli
Manning's Hall of Fame candidacy, H I.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
Mean, look, I don't think he should be in this year,
not with the group of guys that you have there.
But do I think he should eventually be in?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yes? Will he get in?
Speaker 5 (21:47):
Probably not, because if you look at all the people
that are going to be having a chance to get
in in future years, I don't really know how he
gets in. I thought if he was going to get in,
he would be in last year. I think he should
be there. Yes, I believe he is one of the
most clutch quarterbacks you will ever find. When it came
playoff time, he found a way to win, and he
(22:08):
beat the greatest quarterback of all time twice.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yes, so I think he should be a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
People are gonna disagree with me, but when you look
at the stats, he's also top ten and a lot
of the passing stats, so he's got that go that
to go with them. When you get to the argument
of was he a top five quarterback during his time
in the league, there is maybe one season that you
can make that argument, and it's not even one of
the super Bowl years, So that would you're Yeah, honestly,
(22:36):
I think he's debatable.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
What do you think about Terresa?
Speaker 5 (22:40):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I think he was one of the best pass rushers.
You think he first ballot guy? I'll be honest with you, Yes, Okay.
The reason I believe that he should be a first
ballot guy is because I am one that believes you're
either in or you're not the first ballot, second ballot.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I don't how do we how do we measure that?
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Okay, if you're no doubt or then you're a first ballot.
I had to think about it a little bit. So
now you're a second like, are you in or not?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Well?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I think it just I think because of the numbers
you have to pick from, and then when you consider
the guys that come in after you, So like, all right,
let's just say you had a quarterback sitting there. I
don't know this, like an Eli Manning. Right, But then
just for the sake of argument, let's just say that
you know his brother came in a year after him.
Then it's like, all right, then you say, all right,
if we're only gonna take one quarterback, now I'm gonna
(23:28):
take Payton because he was the better. Like That's the
thing that makes it hard is the new guys that
infiltrate the mix the next year.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Well, so when these guys are eligible, I can't believe
I'm saying this because and I am stealing this from
Flounder who said it during the break. My issue with
the Baseball Hall of Fame voting process is that you
can get however many guys you want in the Hall
of Fame. That's correct, right, There's not a limit on
how many people can make the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
You're in and year out. No, No, as far as
I know, there is no limit.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Now it might there might be a limit, and we
just don't know about it because they are such stiff
that they do not let anybody in.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
But I do.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Believe as long as you get over seventy five percent
of the vote, you are allowed into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
That's my issue is that once we start pinning these
guys against one another, well, he's not Larry Fitzgerald, so
we shouldn't let him in. Okay, this is what I
love from Smithy from the City. Because I was waiting
for this comment, I got a couple of them. If
it were up to Walker, the Hall of Fame would
be way too watered down. Is there a player that
I have mentioned that I believe is a for sure
fire Hall of Famer that anybody has disagreed with you?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
No, And I'm with you there, And that's why I say,
that's the conundrum with all of this is that you
do want to make it extra special. And that's the
hardest part about it because you hear a lot of
the Hall of famers say, well, is it going to
be the Hall of Good or is it going to
be the Hall of great or the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Good?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That's what I'm saying. So yeah, So, but you do
want to make it extra special. So that's the problem.
You run into It's like, all right, well, if we
do numbers and we put in fifteen guys a year,
then how specially is it going to be if we
limit it to those five. That's why those guys are
crying when they get those boxes. So Frank Gore is
an interesting case to me. Yeah, I'm not so sure
that Frank Gore should be in. Yes, and the longevity
(25:09):
check on that because he's got sixteen thousand rushing yards,
which is third all time. Yes, So I would understand
wanting to include the guy that is third on the
all time rushing list. The other thing is, okay, what
are the constant things you have to check off? Longevity
and peak. It was the exact reason I think Steve
smith should be in, because there's just not an argument
against it. He was the best player at his position,
(25:31):
He played for a long time, he played meaningful moments.
Smithy should get in. With Frank Gore. You don't get
to check off that he was the best at his
position ever. But I think then you can also check
off consistency, and he was consistently was one thousand yard
Russia really eleven hundred and above for quite some time.
So I think that's something you can say to offset that,
(25:51):
the fact that he was just a consistent guy. You
knew when you line Frank Gore I used to call
him jeezy, when you used to line him up in
the backfield, you knew you were going to get a
thousand out of him. And we can't Also, you know,
downplay what he did in the receiving game. He had
multiple years of fifty plus catches, you know, over four
hundred close to five hundred yards, and a lot of
seasons as well. I mean he also has another thirty
(26:13):
nine hundred and eighty five receiving yards as well to
his total. So he's got nineteen thousand, nine hundred and
eighty five scrimmage yards for his career. Yeah, I think alternate.
He's an all decade guy.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I think ultimately I would side with putting him in
because I think he is the poster player, the poster
child for consistency at a spot that doesn't play fifteen years. Yeah,
this was somebody that played from two thousand and five
to twenty twenty. I'm sorry, sixteen years at that position
(26:45):
where you are at least solid all the way up
until let's call it twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen. I
mean even got some carries with Buffalo and the Jets.
This is where careers go to die. If you ask
Albo and I.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Mean he's six hundred for oh O g that's thirty six,
and you come in and get six hundred yards rushing
and then another six fifty three in your final year,
I still somewhat impressive. It is.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I would side on putting him in. I understand the
argument against it, but ultimately, if if we're going to
put in the players that were best at what they did,
I think Frank Gore, as weird as it may sound,
was the best at.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Just being rock solid forever. He never never quit. Overcame
multiple acls because that was the thing people forget. He
was a tremendous, highlight level running back when you talk
about style before those knee injuries took that away from him.
I mean when he first got to Miami and you
talk about some of the best high school tape you
(27:43):
ever want to watch. I remember watching Frank going high
school man and he would do some ridiculous runs. But
those ACLS took that away from him. So he also
overcame that because I think he had two acls throughout
his career, maybe three. He didn't miss many games.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I don't know if he missed the season that I'm
not paying attention to, but I will say maybe it
happened to the offseason. I don't think it happened too
much during the regular season, which might be another case
for him is that he didn't miss any games.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yeah, I'm sorry he had two acs but they were
both in college.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I figured they would be because that's the thing. Though
played sixteen games twenty twelve through twenty seven, He's never
left the field, and the lowest.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Amount of games that he played in a season in
his career was fourteen.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, so how much do you care about Pete? That's
what it comes down to, if you care about being
a special football player. I don't know if I could
ever say that about Frank Gore being a special football
player as long as some of these other guys, like
all the other players that we've mentioned, but he was
just rock solid for longer than everybody else. I think
that's good enough for me to put him in the
last guy. Have seen a little bit of questioning Jason
(28:46):
Whitten being in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
The thing you got to think about with Jason Witness,
how many tight end records he had when he retired,
because I think he had pretty much most, if not
all of them, so couldn't be wrong, but I think
he did so.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And the other thing, too, is like how much do
you pay attention to the box score compared to how
much you pay attention to what you watched with your eyeballs.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
This is the classic.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Troy Aikman is the poster child of that argument where
you just had to be there to recognize how good
Troy Aikman was, because then when you look at the stats,
it's like, oh my god, what this was? One of
the big three down in Dallas, went in Super Bowls.
These stats aren't impressive. That's a team award, And then
we hold him out of some of these conversations among
the greats with Jason Witten, that's a position that doesn't
(29:32):
go for a thousand yards all that often, and he
had four years of a thousand.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, he's second in career receptions and receiving yards for
a tight end. He played in the most career games
by tight end. He's a four time All Pro and
eleven time Pro Bowler.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
The only other thing about Jason Whitten is my man,
is the king of the checkdown.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
He did Jason Witten.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
If I wanted something dynamic, I wasn't going to him,
and he had four one.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
I mean, how many tight ends are like incredibly dynamic,
like huge, big play.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Let's talk about yeah, one thousand yard seasons too, fifteen
seasons with at least sixty cats. So if you care
about this, I just the way I watched him play football,
it didn't feel like he was all that special to me.
So here are the guys that really had a lot
of other stuff outside of just being the check down,
first down guy, which is important. But going to for instance,
(30:22):
AFC West is the best tight end division of all time.
If you go to the AFC West, you have Travis Kelce,
Tony Gonzalez, Kellen Winslow, Antonio Gates. Just unbelieve all those
guys dynamic at their position and could do extra stuff
rather than just move the chains. Shannon Sharp is somebody
I didn't even bring up. I don't think Shannon Sharp
in the AFC West just a ridiculous tight end division.
So you have five right there that I would immediately
(30:44):
go to and say, oh, okay, was Jason ever? Did
he ever bring me the feelings that those guys did
with the box scores?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Incredible? Yeah, I'm about to say I will say he
averages ten point six yards a catch for his career.
He had a stretch of six straight seasons where he
was a seven yards per catch or better. But like
I said, he retired with a career ten point six
yards a catch. I can't say anything.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
He killed the Giants, so anytime that we would play him,
he would always put up huge games. I always thought
he was a really good title command. Now would I
say that he was Tony Gonzalees good Antonio Gates. Well,
that's the thing though, you don't know if he's on
that level. So see, I would say he is debatable,
that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
But see, the thing I'll say about him is that
you couldn't stop him. You knew that he was a
primary target in that passing game and he was going
to get his numbers. Like I said, fifteen years was
sixty catchers or more, career ten yards per catch. He's
got multiple one thousand yard receiving seasons. For guy that
(31:46):
you look at him and say, yeah, he's big and
he's not the fastest. But he's got one thousand yard
seasons under his belt. And again, you knew when you
played the Cowboys Jason Witten was a threat. He was
a primary threat in that passing game, and you still
couldn't stop him.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Broke a couple things, Smitty from the City. Wait, Kellen
Winslow is a Hall of Famer. Let's just be real clear.
It's his dad. If you're thinking about Kellen Winslow junior,
he is not a Hall of Famer. His dad is
one of the best tight ends of all time and
is a deserve the sun.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Will not even be a Hall of Fame semi finalist.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
You brought you brought up the yards per reception. It's
actually bad. Jason Witten being at eleven per catch isn't good.
Like Travis Kelcey has two years less than that in
his entire career. Shannon Sharp has very few years that
are less than that. Like, that's the thing. Check down, baby,
Do you want to put the best checkdown receiver of
all time in the Hall of Fame? If you believe
(32:41):
that that has a ton of value which move in
the chains it matters, man, then maybe you want to
put him in. But when I think of, oh my god,
I am scared to death of that guy. Did he
instill the type of fear in you that those other
tight ends did? And I would tell you no. I
would imagine defensive backs and linebackers alike would say that
he did not instill the type of fear that the
other tight ends did.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, I mean, And this is another thing with styles too,
because I feel like styles playing into a lot of
people's opinions too, because he wasn't dynamic. He was not
that for sure, but like you said, chain over and
he was a guy that you could not stop. He
wasn't the big, the fastest, or the quickest do but
he found ways to get open and make those catches.
So I mean, he was a guy that when you
played Dallas, yeah, you were like, okay, yeah, we're gonna
(33:24):
have to deal with Jason Whitten, and he was gonna
give you that work more than likely. And like I said,
he might not have been the most dynamic guy as
far as athleticism, but you know he was gonna he's
gonna give you the business.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Like for another instance, here is you know, Jason Whitten
never had twelve yards perception. He got close a couple
of times, but Greg Olsen has won two, three, four,
five like this.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
That's how it is.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
That that's that's why people are questioning Jason Witten. Last
thing here TC says is Julio Jones the Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Hell yeah, even though he might get you know, team
catches for two hundred yards and then be missing for
three weeks, but.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
You might have three hundred yards if Ben a been
Wickery has anything to say about it, three bills.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, he definitely is a Hall of Famer. But I'll
say that real quick to your argument. Greg Olsen only
has him by yard in career yards per catch. He's
eleven seven, but he's got multiple seasons with eleven too well.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And I'm not even saying Greg Olsen to Hall of Famer.
I'm just saying that Greg Olsen for five years, had
a higher peak than Jason Witten in terms of being
a dynamic guy. Like you're talking about the yards. He
had three one thousand yard seasons at his peak and
had the five years where he was twelve yards perception.
I'm not saying greg should be in. It's just when
you talk about talk about what Jason Witten was Jason
Went wasn't doing anything outside of catching the football and
(34:41):
going straight to the ground. That's what it was now
that I disagree with. I watched a lot of Jason Witten. Man,
he was good after the Cats, bro, he was good
after the catch. I'm actually kind of shocked, to be
honest with you, he was he was good after the Cats. No,
he was good after the Cats.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Man.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
What I don't know if you was running around and
your under rules of what you were doing then, but
Jason Went was a good play.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Which is why I'm surprised that me and diapers has
a better opinion on this than you, and not because,
like I said, Greg Olsen has multiple seasons where he
had the same type of yards per catch as Jason Witten,
and he was perceived to be more dynamic. Greg Olsen
five times in his career did something Jason Witten didn't
do once. What's that get twelve yards per reception?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Okay, but this is very much semantics because I can
point to multiple season Jason Went was eleven five, eleven eight,
eleven nine, eleven eight, So eleven nine, eleven seven, so
that's essentially twelve yards a catch. Oh well, okay, then
hold on like you because you're splitting hairs between eight
yards per catch, but they're very similar, and for his
(35:44):
career he only averages less than So you're saying if
we expand the pool, now we can get we get
to count some ad that. I'm just saying, he averages
one point one more yards per catch during his career
than Jason Witten. So that kind of debunks your checkdown.
We're target we're talking about Pete. Yeah, so that's what
we're saying.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm not saying Greg Olsen should be in I'm saying
that there's a reason that Jason Witten isn't considered to
be this impressive guy.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
And I think that's because people look at the style
on which he played and he wasn't the most exciting player,
but he was a very effective players.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I'm saying, I can we look this up for real?
Like I really Jason Whitten being good after the catch.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I watch Cowboys tons of Cowboys games with him playing.
I played against him in college. Jason Witton was a
really really good play. He's a first round pick and
then he would he lived up to that potential. So
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Fair enough, fair enough, we'll move on Jason Whitten. See
y'all say, I'm the one that lets everybody in. Wes
is the one that lets everybody in.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
To get in a really good player Hall of Fame.
All of them should be in. We'll move all.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
We got one more segment to go. It's wesn Walker
Sports Rate Night at U seven w FNZ.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Are you challenge me to a walk off? Oh yeah,
that's a walk off challenge, my friend.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
It's a walk off, the walk off Papa West doing
the age things.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
That's a fact. Uh So, man, this is getting Jason.
Jason is getting you guys fired? Is this is this
gonna be by moment?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
So this was my only argument about the debate because
this just so everybody knows, this lasted during the break
and Wes is getting frustrated in that he was Wes
is seemingly frustrated that I was apparently wrong on is
that he's.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Saying, hie pitched. He's frustrated.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
So he is saying to me that he watched Jason
Witten play. Therefore he knows and I do not, you
are doing the age thing here. So if that is
the case, and all I was saying was that Jason
Whitten didn't do all that much in yards per reception.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
You caught him a check down tight end with thirteen
thousand yards.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
That's how you do it with a million different targets.
It still was valuable. And I talked about that, right,
like how many times did I say, if you want
to put him in, I get it because there's not
many tight ends that go for a thousand yards as
many times as he did in his career. So it
makes sense to me what I was saying was, and man,
this is what's so like to me hard to believe here. Man,
(38:42):
it's a fact, Like you look at the yard like
they're right here, and that's all I'm saying. That Shannon
Sharp had ten more years, ten years better at yards
per reception than Jason Whitten. Never posted once in his
entire life, and he.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Has twelve point six yards podcast for his career to
Jason Winton's ten points.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And that's actually a big difference. It is like if
you talk about ten but that's kind of wild, right?
Can you give me that that he had a decade's
long worth of production more than Jason Whitten in yards
percent ten years? That's kind of wild? You don't like it.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Wes just gave me an evil stare, but he's not.
It's not an evil stare. But the Panthers don't have
a tight end. This has eleven yards per catch. Oh,
Tommy Tremble said in eight eight, and we up here
talking about eleven is something to sneeze it. Oh my god,
the Panthers tight ends. Yeah, but I'm just saying, but
you act like you would take an eleven yard per
(39:40):
catch tight end right now, all day, every day. Yeah,
So that's what I'm saying. Oh, okay, eleven yards, that's
a really healthy yards per catch.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
If you're saying to me that I would rather have
Jason Whitten than Tommy Tremble, Mitchell Levin's and j T.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Sanders, I am not here to argue that Jason's a
great player, but I feel like you deduced his accomplishments
by calling him a check down tight end when that's
not what he was. What was he He was a
guy like you said when we read the AI description,
which I know we talked about aim, but I watched
him and it was accurate. You could say, okay all day,
but he would take short catches and he was good
after the catch. He would take a short catch and
(40:17):
turn it into a first down because he was good
after the catch.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
This is what we can get it on same page
on when you bring up the Panthers tight ends in
twenty twenty five to the equation, you have to understand,
I am not here to argue that Jason Witten better
than Tommy Trimble at yards perception. I'm not here to
argue that it's was the Walker baby with the walk
off on sports Raded ninety two seven WFNZ. And it's
(40:41):
time now for what's on tap as we move away
from this conversation presented by Twin Peaks. Twin Peaks has
locations in Concord and Fort Mill. Twin Peaks is your
local sports lodes you can come in from, made from
scratch food and signature twenty nine degree draft beers and
all the scenic views. Tonight, well there's not any NFL football.
All of the fantasy football playoffs are over. By the
way I got it done. Shout out to Matt Stafford
(41:02):
and Pookinakua. I won on the very last play of
the game. And for the Rams that is offensively and
it was the ugliest fantasy football championship that I've ever
participated all in my life, but we did end up
getting it done. Instead, we have to move away from
some of the college football and go to college basketball
because tonight in North Carolina will host Florida State. North
(41:24):
Carolina twelve to one Florida State seven and six UNC
a thirteen and a half point favorite.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Seven pm tip.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
All that leads right over there to the four Corner
Slash Heel Tough blog podcast written content all of it.
How do you feel about this game going gets against
what has been a terrible, terrible acc basketball team in
the seminar, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:46):
Should be an easy one, that should be one that
you should be able to roll over.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Does that mean that the Tarios will do that? Not necessarily.
Speaker 5 (41:53):
You're coming off the holiday break, but it's your first
conference game, so hopefully this team comes out with a
little bit of fire, is ready to you know, put
some points on the board early against a team that
is struggling shooting the ball, even though they shoot the
ball a ton from beyond the arc, not shooting it
great there, not shooting a great inside the arc. Hopefully
(42:14):
this is a team that Carolina can put some distance
between and have a comfortable second half, but we'll have
to see.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, I would like North Carolina to win by a
large margin here. If you're going to take care of
the bad basketball teams and you put them away early,
it's not something that North Carolina has necessarily done.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
In the first half.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I think if you're a tar Heel fan, if they lose,
that's a terrible loss, no no way around that. But
I think you would like to see them win and
cover the thirteen and a half point spread.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, you would like to see that.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Let me rephrase that, if you're a Carolina fan, you
would like to I'd love to.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
See Florida State put a upset. I know they're one
of the worst teams in the league. To me is
them in Boston College, and I think the worst because
Florida State has taken some beat downs that I haven't
seen in college basketball, and from an ACC perspective in
quite some time. It's about thirty. I mean, they have
been absolutely drugged. So I expect Carolina to roll tonight
over the Seminoles.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Okay, so you have North Carolina playing Florida State. All
of us believe that North Carolina will indeed end up
winning that game. Just a few more games left to
talk about here as far as the ACC is concerned,
North Carolina hosting Florida State, Miami hosting Pittsburgh seven o'clock
tip on ACC network, California hosting Louisville Cardinals rank sixteenth
(43:28):
in the country, and Stanford the nightcap nine o'clock tip.
Along with that Louisville game, Stanford hosting Notre Dame on
ESPN two. Anything interesting here the rest of the way
in terms of college basketball games after UNC Florida State.
Speaker 5 (43:43):
Hold on, I gotta go Louisville Cols. Someone interesting. Cal
is off to a twelve and one start. That game
is also in California, so.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Maybe maybe. Yeah. I mean, this isn't great because Notre
Dame right now. I'm not sure if Marcus Burden is
back yet for them. Louisville's been a team that's been
a little underwhelming, Kyle though. You know, they got Scottie Pippenson.
He's balling out for them right now. But I'm not
sure that they can beat Louisville. They'll probably get be
down and then pitting Miami. Yeah, this is not a
(44:14):
great bat.
Speaker 5 (44:15):
Miami should destroy Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was not a good team
in the non conference Jeff Capble.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, they're nine and a half point favorite in this game. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
The only thing I'll say about Louisville is you would
like to see them. They did beat Indiana, they were
a ranked opponent, but against the top notch competition, they
haven't necessarily answered the bell. We thought that they had
a big time win against Kentucky. They were ninth at
the time, but Kentucky is nine and four. They are
now out of the top twenty five, so they won't
have another chance, I think, to prove themselves until they
(44:43):
played Duke just a.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Few games away from now. So we'll see what the
Cardinals are able to do.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
That'll do it. Last show twenty twenty five. We appreciate
all the memories here, folks, We appreciate it very much.
So next time we'll see you Classic. We'll be back
in twenty twenty six, and we will be here to
talk all about what the Panthers were or weren't able
to do here against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Can they win the NFC South. We will discuss.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
We will recap all of it on Monday, and we
have a whole bunch of hodge Podge schedule for you
the rest of the way. Coming up next, it's Kyle
Bailey alongside Smoke Lug with Sports Rated ninety two seven WFNZ.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Listen to the Wes and.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
Walker Show wee teas from noon to three only on
Sports Radio ninety two point seven FMUFNZ, the
Speaker 5 (45:29):
Official home of the Charlotte Sports Fan
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