August 25, 2024 • 27 mins
On Boxing day 2022, Lee and Emma Lovell head to bed with their teenage daughters asleep in the house.
That one night changes their lives forever after two youth offenders break into their Brisbane home and Emma is killed.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Approche production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
North Lakes is a suburb of Brisbane. It's about thirty
one kilometers away from the Brisbane CBD. It's famous in
Brisbane for a couple of reasons. It's the only place
you can find at Costco and it's also the home
to one of the two of Brisbane's Ikeas. The population
is mainly made up of young families, and that's exactly
(00:30):
why Lee and his wife Emma moved to Australia in
the first place. It's a safe, quiet environment to raise
their two kids, Cassie and Scarlet. It's Christmas twenty twenty
two at Lee and Emma's house. It's been a big
few days for the family, being away from the UK
for Christmas. They spent the day together with friends at
(00:50):
the beach, the quintessential Queensland Christmas. Boxing Day comes around
and today's the day for mowing the lawn and watching
Australia flog South Africa in the Boxing Day Test. At
about nine point thirty pm that night, Lee and Emma
(01:13):
finish watching a movie in the family room and then
head off to bed. At eleven thirty Lee wakes up
the dogs are going crazy outside. It's not their normal bark.
They seem really angry. Emma is already awake. She's looking
(01:36):
at the security cameras with the glow of her phone
lighting up the room. On the cameras, she sees the
front door is open. They get out of bed and
they open the bedroom door and are confronted by two intruders.
One of them, a seventeen year old boy, has an
eleven centimeter knife. Lee and Emma are startled. They try
(02:00):
to defend their house and protect their two teenage kids
by pushing the thieves outside. They didn't see the knife
until it was too late. The thieves run, but not
before Lee is stabbed in the back and kicked in
the face. As Lee has taken away in the ambulance,
his wife Emma is lying on their front lawn with
(02:23):
specialist paramedics performing open heart surgery because of a knife
wound to her heart, but it's too late. Emma passes
away on her front lawn a boxing day. This story
sounds like such a nightmare, sounds like it's from a movie,
(02:47):
but it's not. It's happening right across the country and
in Queensland right now. It's the worst sitting in Australia
for youth crime.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Queensland's youth crime pricess has reached new highs this morning,
with alarming figures confirming offenses are on the rise. You're
not the arrest joy ride stolen black Audi coming to
a dramatic end at Castle Gynoff.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
One of these juveniles is a prolific, serious repeat offender.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
This is the start of a robbery. The shop attendant
just doesn't know it yet, that is until their casual
conversations take a sinister tod It's one of these teenagers
appears to be armed. A woman tries pleading with them.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Lee's story is extreme, but every day we hear stories
of youth offenders stealing cars, breaking into houses, carjackings and
knife crime. In the year twenty twenty three to twenty
four in Queensland, there were over three thy three hundred
children between ten and seventeen years old who committed a
proven offense. Sixty eight percent of those reoffended within twelve months.
(04:01):
Sixty two percent of the crime in Queensland was around property,
seven percent of that crime was violent, and four percent
of it had drug involvement. Remember these are kids between
ten and seventeen years old. There's growing community anger over
Queensland's youth crime crisis after a woman was held at
knife point in her own home. It's a really complex issue,
(04:24):
with over eighty percent of youth offenders admitting to substance abuse.
Thirty eight percent of those have used ice or meth.
Almost half don't go to school or have a job,
or have been impacted by domestic and family violence. As
I said, it's a really complex issue. I can tell
(04:45):
your firsthand the feeling that you get when someone gets
into your safe space, your home, or your car. This
is nothing like Lee's story, but it's still affected me
and my family, and I'm going to let my wife
Katie tell the story. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
So for me, it was simple. I was on holiday
and had a pet sitter looking after our pets. She
called one morning to ask me to check the security
cameras because she thought that her car had been broken into.
We checked and at seven fifty five am on a
Friday morning, in the middle of school holidays, with two
cars parked in the driveway as a man he was
wearing a black Puma hoodie. On the camera, he reaches
(05:22):
down to his ankle to get something. It's grainy, so
we can't really see what it is, but looks like
maybe a knife or a screwdriver. Then he goes back
to his pocket and pulls out a white glove. He's
not bothered that it's in the middle of the morning,
like he could probably see the security camera. He's not
done anything to disguise himself. He looks like he's young,
(05:42):
possibly under eighteen. He looks into the car and then
he's disturbed, so he jumps into the neighbor's yard over
a one point eight meter fence, and then he disappears
from our cameras for two minutes and twenty two seconds,
and then he appears again, this time in our backyard.
Our back camera's now picking him up, so he must
(06:03):
have tried the neighbor's doors and not got in. He
then walks around to our laundry sliding door. The camera
down the side gate grabs a perfect picture of his face.
He tries the door, no luck. Our dog spots him.
She's barking. He then goes to another back door. She
keeps barking. He tries the door and opens the slider,
(06:23):
but luckily it has a security screen and he can't
get in. You can see him on the camera occasionally hiding.
We didn't know why until later. It was because the
pets that are inside with making toast. She was getting
ready for work, so he's been watching her, not bothered,
just watching and waiting. So the dog keeps barking. He
jumps the fence again. Next time we see him on
(06:45):
the front camera again by the car. He tries the
door and gets in. He quickly rummages in the car
using his gloved hand, being careful not to leave fingerprints,
so it's clear this isn't his first time. He gets
a few things from the car, nothing really valuable, then
runs to the front door of the house, tries the
front door, no luck, and then just as quickly as
(07:06):
he arrives, he's gone, the whole episode taking less than
eight minutes.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Now, as I said, that story is not to compare
it to Lee's story, but to talk about how it
changed things for us afterwards. We weren't at home, we're
on holidays, but the image of a man in a
hoodie in our backyard standing where we hang out our
washing freaked us out. When we got back home. It
took us weeks to actually go outside to hang out
the washing again, and that was after we installed more
(07:36):
cameras and put up some other new security measures in
our home. And I bought a baseball bat for under
the bed. Stupid, I know, because would I ever use it?
Probably not? So why do we need to do this?
We don't live in America where people carry guns. We
live in a quiet suburb of Brisbane, a place where
(07:58):
I would leave the back door unlocked while the kids
were in the pool or I was cooking a barbie.
I might leave the garage door open while I was
mowing the lawn or moving shopping inside from the car.
I used to leave my garage remote in the car
because it was easy. But because of this one guy,
all that's changed and our story isn't unique. So while
(08:24):
in this story we're going to tell you the story
of Lee and Emma and the pain and tragedy and
the aftermath their family, it has a subtext to it.
Why is this happening in Queensland, the worst state in
Australia for youth crime. What's being done about it? And
is it enough? Can we learn from anyone else? And
(08:45):
when does it change? And I guess the big question
is who's to blame. The idea of this podcast was
to highlight these stories to make them real. It's not
about scaring you, it's about saying, now, more than ever,
(09:05):
they could happen to anyone. Lee and his family were
normal people, living a normal life when something like this
changed their lives forever. In May twenty twenty four, the
seventeen year old that murdered Lee's wife in their home
was sentenced. We'll talk about that sentence with Lee shortly,
but first let's understand why Lee and Emma moved to
(09:26):
Brisbane from the UK in the first place.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
Emma and I met when she was like nineteen and
I was like twenty one. I think back then she
used toll working like the job center back in Ipswich
and the UK. We got sort of set up via
a friend, you know, a typical thing. I was like, oh,
I got any single friends, and then she's like, yeah,
come back on Wednesday when the Wednesday Night went round,
(09:51):
and then Emma was there and we sort of met
a bit, you know, and then and then the Friday
night the Frauvers went out. And I was never very
good at with the girls back then that you know,
and you know, like her friend, Emma's friend Christina, you know,
and she's like, you gotta do something, I know, if
you know, like shut up something like it's just pressure
me into this that, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
But yeah, it's sort of to start from there. And then.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
But yeah, Emma was always very focused on work and
learning and trying to improve herself. And she got into
doing like accounts and then.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Was then for a while they're doing like.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
An evening course, you know, to get her qualifications up
in accounts and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And then I guess what sort of personality.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
She was quite shy really, you know, I didn't really
like to put herself out there too much. And but
I suppose the two of us together, you know, she
was quite chatty and quite a fun person to be around,
and just I don't know, isundily arrant here, but like
vary into me and you know, and then eventually like
with our kids, and I think she was just almost
(10:58):
like born to be our mum. So she wanted to
be to a certain extent. And I would have given
her life for a kids now, you know. And so
you've got two kids.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Scarlett was born in two thousand and seven and Cassie
was born in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
What was Emma like as mum.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
Yeah, like I said, just a sort of devoted mum
really and just trying to do everything we can to
provide as much as we can for them and give
them the best life we could.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Really.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So at what stage do you think, you know what
Australia might be the place to go.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
I was so we'd had Cassie at that time, and
you know, Emma was at home.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I'm maternity to leave because.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
She went back to work after having Scarlet and then
then we had Cassie and then she was off for
like I think back, you get like nine months off
or something, and I remember like she went back to work.
I think she's only back at work like a day,
and she was like I don't want to I don't
want to leave her in childcare. I'm like, I'll just
don't go back to work. Then I'll work and you
stay at home. And yeah, that's how it happened for
(12:00):
us really, but then for Australia, like I was at
work one day and she just finded about the blue
and she's like, we hadn't really talked about this.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
You know, we had things.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
We had been traveling to Australia back in two thousand
and two, so we both had a little understanding about
what Australia was like. But then she phoned me up
and was just we can get visas or permanent residency
visas to Australia, okay, And She's like, back then, the
one we had was trying to get was you needed
one hundred and twenty points to get PR and we
could get like one hundred and twenty five with my trade.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
And all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
And I was like, because then she was saying, oh,
you don't need to get even if you get visa
straight away, you don't have to leave straight away. You've
got like a five year period that you need to
end in the country, buy something like well, it's a
start it, you know. Then that was like early two
thousand and eight, and then by that point the whole
like GFC had like kicked in, and then you know, my.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Trade got put on hold and then it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Until like twenty eleven when things start to improve. And
then because within that, you know, between two and two eleven,
I discovered what seek, so I was often looking on
there for and then we sort of sort of settled
on we want to go to Brisbane.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And then.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
Well, because I think at the time we thought that
we couldn't really we never had done like the West Coast,
you know, but like.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We couldn't really afford like Sydney. Like everyone we knew,
we probably couldn't afford it.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
To move there, whereas it probably would have been a
more at times, so maybe thought it would have been
the nicer place or a better place to go. But
then you know, I suppose when we were traveling we
both liked Brisbane.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
At the time.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
And then and this one job come up for like
roseland demolition. They're down in Bango, and yeah, so I
just emailed and said, you know, I've just got my
pr we're in the press of selling our house. I'm
applying for the job. So they replied and we had
a chat on Skye thing he offered me the job.
So I got I got to Australia on the fourth
of November, and I think I then started work on
(13:50):
the on the seventh, which was the Monday.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I said, I was like staying with my boss at
the time, and.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So Lee and Emma moved to Australia. In fact, Lee
comes out first to start his job, and Emma has
told him that she's not moving out with the kids
until he finds a house. Lee needs to find a
place quick, so he decides Ont Lakes. It's an area
that's growing fast. Your houses everywhere, shopping centers, schools going up,
and it's not too far from the Sunny Coast and
(14:16):
the city of Brisbane.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
It sounds funny, but it was probably like the hardest
three weeks of my life. You know. You think that,
like you're.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
Confident and strong and emotional, I suppose to make that
leap into a new country, but.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
It was just so hard without her, like, you know,
her being my support, you know, and I don't know,
it was really really challenging not having her here for
those three weeks, you know. And I was so grateful
when she turned up, you know, and you know, it's
not just it's not just like moving house. You move
in country people new town, don't know where anyone is,
don't know anything that moment, you know, and not having
(14:57):
her here was like so hard. Like maybe I never
told her how hard I found it, but yeah, that
was really hard. Really, So yeah, before we left, you know, again,
like looking online, Emma had heard about North Lakes there's
obviously a lot of English moving here, and so my
(15:17):
boss lived in dunder So like at the weekend's predominantly
I was sort of driving up here to North Lakes
and just having a look around, driving around, and then
Emma stipulation was like, I'm not moving over until we've
got us a house, you know. So that's why I
was a bit desperate to find somewhere and get all
the forms put in water. So yeah, as soon as
I phoned her up and says, look, I've got this place,
(15:37):
then she booked the tickets like straight away. So, and
what did you like about North Lakes when you first
come up? I suppose I thought it was quite a
nice area. It was nice because the shops. You know,
it's before the shops got extended, you know, but the
shops are pretty big, and you know, like I suppose
I liked it. I still like that now because I
like the way you can sort of come off the
highway and it's like its own suburb.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
You know.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
It's like there's a lot of suburbs, you know, or
towards towards the city. You know, they all just sort
of blend into one, didn't they. Because you're driving through
those main roads. But I always found that North Thanks
got to come off and it's his own area, and
there's a nice little parks around and nice modern houses
and that sort of stuff that you know, And yeah,
I had no issues with it when we first started
looking around.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
As I drove up to Lee's house to record the interview,
the same house that his wife was killed in, it
reminded me of a small English village. About a kilometer
away from their house is the police station. There's the
Mengo Hill Police station, which is literally, yeah, less than
four minutes away from their house.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
It's a beautiful area.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So why was Lee's house targeted? Was it random or
was it more than that? Why did two seventeen year
olds break into Lee's house and not anyone else's. We'll
get to that shortly, but let's go back to Christmas
twenty twenty two, the last Christmas that Emma spent with
her family.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
Leading up to that, Like, we're generally gone around like
a friends a friends of ours sort of the few
roads away, and we generally spent like Christmas Day for them.
But they they didn't want to do Christmas dinner, and
so they suggested like down at the lake. There was
like a boarderwalk hotel. You could do like one of
(17:28):
these like two hour sort of Christmas dinner things for
four hour things, but it was a lot of money,
and we said that, you know, we don't want to
do that, Like, you know, if you guys want to
do that and then come around of ours afterwards, then
you know, feel free. And then a little bit later
on it was like, I want, don't we go to
the beach insteads you know, I was like, I don't
really want to do that, you know, I just want
us to be at home, but you know, and then
(17:48):
I thought there'd be a bit more about a local beach,
but we ended up going to Point Ark right up
on the Sunshine Coast, and it was it was quite
a enjoyable day.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Actually, you know that it was a bit sort of overcast,
but still quite warm.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
And it's bizarre because it's Christmas Day and you just
have always liked spent at home to be at the beach,
and you know, but it was a nice day, you know,
like I said, it was. We had a bit of
a laugh and a joke and then sort of came
back and then you know, our friends came around ours
afterwards and had some drinks and that sort of stuff. Yeah,
like Christmas Day was quite a nice day, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And the kids at the stage are I guess thirteen
and fifteen. Yeah, and so Chris was pretty exciting for
kids at that age, right, not as exciting as is
when they're eight and ten.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Yeah, but like Emma always made it really nice for them,
and you know, like I didn't sounds funny, but like
I don't know, like a lot of guys maybe like
I didn't always know what like Ema had got, like
I don't know why, but she just went off and
got he's the presents and you know, always made the
day nice for the girls. And even at that age,
you know, there was a stocking where you know, that
(18:54):
stocking was the presence decide we from Santa, you know.
Then everything else was from us, you know, and it
was always you know, the stuff from center was things
like canna coke or you know, some socks or underwear,
I don't know, just stuff like that, you know, and
then always like bigger stuff maybe more expensive, but we're
from US and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You know.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
So yeah, she always made it like pretty nice, like
for the girls. I was suppose we did, really, you know,
but then we'd because like Scarlet was seeing a like
a boy at the time. So I think for like
the twenty seventh, we'd planned on having like Christmas dinner
that day because of missing out on having Christmas dinner
on Christmas Day because we just cooked like bacon and
eggs at the beach, took a little like gast over
(19:31):
as you know, and cooked up. And so I think
we were planning on going to the shops on the
twenty seventh thing to get food for you know.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
That day and that sort of stuff. But you know,
obviously like we never got any really, so.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So Boxing Day what traditionally, what what do you do
on Boxing Day?
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Well, that day, Scarlet I want to go around and
see her boyfriend at the time. So we all drove
to you know, sort of scar but dropped her off
and then am I and Cassie when you've been down
at the front there it was like a little cafe
and we got like a there's a coffee and I
remember it being such a such a windy day but
(20:09):
so hot as well, and you know, I was trying
to sort of keep under an umbrella of the trying
and sort of keep out of the sun, and then
you know, we sort of had a coffee, then sort
of had a bit of walk along the front and
then I think we must have then sort of come
back to the shops, got some more food or something
and whatever, and then sort of come home. And then
I don't think we really left after that. So yeah,
that evening and we sort of like cooked tea and
(20:33):
then we ended up just like watching a film and
it finished about nine thirty and then so yeah, like I.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Sort of into bed. Like I said before, we were
like reasonably tired and you know.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
And I didn't want to start putting another film like
nine to thirty like sort of the time, So the
two of us just went to bed, and I thought
Cassie did as well, but she must have stayed up
like just watching Netflix on the ropead.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I just want to talk about the house if I
can quickly. A single story house, master bedrooms down towards
the front, is it.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
Yeah, See, if you're looking at front door, the master
bedroom is on the right hand side, and then the
left hand side of the hallway is then our living room.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, and then you walk down into this kitchen area
where we are right now, and then off to the
corridor is I'm guessing bathrooms.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, three bedrooms and a bathroom from aud you know,
see a couple of dogs walking around. The dogs were.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Back then, like for a while, we had let the
dogs sleep on a bed because our bigger look sheddy
hair constantly. Like we just force them, like sleep in
the kitchen. They've got a bed there and we've got
those like fabric dog things that pull out, so you know,
we sort of trap them in the kitchen at nighttime
so they can't get through to the kids bedrooms or
down the hallway so they can they can still get
out of the night.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Through the dog door, but you know, they just slept
in the kitchen back then.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I'm looking now, I can see a camera up in
the in the roof in the kitchen. Here is that
camera new camera or was that installed back in the day.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
No, that was put in like in January twenty one
or something that sort of looked at our kitchen because
that's we went away and we just want to make
sure the dogs are okay. We could see them, so
we added that one extra. But you know, we've got
other cameras around the back of the house, and then
there's that there's a camera that points at our front door,
and then there's another camera that sort of shines over
our driveway and then partly over my vehicle and then
(22:15):
part over the garden at the front.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
There we use security conscious or like in this area,
were were you aware of security or break ins or
anything like that.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I suppose I remember back then that you know, there
had been.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
House is sort of broken into and cars broken into.
I think the reason we put the cameras in is
because the kids were getting to a bit older and
Emma was starting to go out and like leave the
kids at home, and yeah, we just want to make
sure that we could sort of see around the house
(22:51):
and then make sure no one was getting in and
you know, for their safety.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I think, you know, for hours to.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
Check on them, not really because of an issue with
you know, crime within the area. I think that's why
we've got it done, if I remember rightly.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So, Yeah, while I'm in the house talk with Lee
on this Sunday morning in North Lakes, his eldest daughter,
Scarlett was sitting at the breakfast bench having breakfast. I think,
to be honest, it was about giving her dad some
moral support. Scarlett was there the night all of this
happened to their family, and she also remembers the time
before this night that she was scared in the house.
This audio is a little bit harder to hear because
(23:25):
Scarlett is sitting away from the microphones. You're also sparked
up a bit more after you and mom walking the
dogs one night and I messaged her saying that I
felt like I was being watched from.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
In my bedroom. Yeah, I do remember that. Yeah, And then.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Like you guys then brought up the topic of getting
cameras because I mentioned that. Yeah, I don't know whether
anyone was there at a time or not, but that's
what Scarlett said, So it sort of made us sort
of want to put the cameras in. So, yeah, I
just bought the kit from Jaca, and between member and
I we sort of installed ourselves, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, you go to bed about nine thirty boxing day night,
talk to me about what happens.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
It's about sort of eleven thirty, and like I said,
we were both sort of both asleep, and then our
little dog predominantly that I remember, like her barking, and
sometimes I both dogs have barked in the past and
you know, maybe there's a dog over the road starts
bike and so ours do. And you know, neverbody concerned
me too much. And then I don't know, well, they'd
hear annoise outside, but then sometimes they would bark, and
(24:28):
then a couple of minutes late and they'd sort.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Of settle down.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
A few seconds late, we woud settle down, and you'd
just drift drift off back to sleep again and owned up.
Pepper kept barking and barking and barking and wouldn't stop,
and he carried on a bit more. And then so
I was sort of, you know, i'd sort of winking
up and then and then sort of just turned over
and looked at Emma and she sort of laying on
her back in bed, and then you know, see her
on her phone, and she was like front door open,
(24:53):
and I didn't I didn't even cross my mind that
like someone was in the house. But I just wanted
to get up to like shut the door to make
sure no one was going to get in the house,
because we had had issues at least once or twice
where you know, the door was pushed to but even
like one Saturday, random we were sitting in the front
room and then like the door just opened and the
door run away. Oh maybe maybe the door hasn't been
(25:15):
pushed too properly and it's come open. So you know,
I suppose within the blink of an eye toimething, that's
the thought that goes through your mind, like just get
up and close the door.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
So yeah, sort of, you know, because my side.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Had been I suppose it's slightly closer than him, as
I suppose, but I think we both like rushed to the.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Door, and it wasn't if she laid in bed.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
We both rushed to the door, and you know, I
opened up the bedroom door.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And yeah, there was like this guy sort of standing
right in front of the bedroom door. And then I
remember seeing the second guy.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
He was in our living room where our sofa is,
and then he was then walking back towards the hallway
or then coming back towards the hallway in the next episode,
Like I thought that as we sort of come out
the door and then try to sort of hang off
(26:10):
like around his neck, and then I think I sort
of slipped and then as I went on to the ground,
and then he sort of then kicked me twice maybe
three times.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I think at least like twice in her face. And then.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
And the next thing, I know, I looked at Emma
and she was like this, you know, sort of she'd
moved a bit, but like she was on in front
of me, like laying on the floor with her back
to me, you know, so you know, and it was
a bit of a shock to like see her there
because I was like, you know, second ago, she was
like standing up, but standing in front of me there.
And next thing, she's lay on the floor in case
he come back with the phone, and you know, she
(26:46):
was like, mummy's bleeding, and I remember, like, what do
you mean she's bleeding?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And then was over. I sort of kneeled over and
looked at her.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Left side and he was here, our left side of
the ninety dislike actually the sucking blood.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And then that panic sets in and then
Approche production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
North Lakes is a suburb of Brisbane. It's about thirty
one kilometers away from the Brisbane CBD. It's famous in
Brisbane for a couple of reasons. It's the only place
you can find at Costco and it's also the home
to one of the two of Brisbane's Ikeas. The population
is mainly made up of young families, and that's exactly
(00:30):
why Lee and his wife Emma moved to Australia in
the first place. It's a safe, quiet environment to raise
their two kids, Cassie and Scarlet. It's Christmas twenty twenty
two at Lee and Emma's house. It's been a big
few days for the family, being away from the UK
for Christmas. They spent the day together with friends at
(00:50):
the beach, the quintessential Queensland Christmas. Boxing Day comes around
and today's the day for mowing the lawn and watching
Australia flog South Africa in the Boxing Day Test. At
about nine point thirty pm that night, Lee and Emma
(01:13):
finish watching a movie in the family room and then
head off to bed. At eleven thirty Lee wakes up
the dogs are going crazy outside. It's not their normal bark.
They seem really angry. Emma is already awake. She's looking
(01:36):
at the security cameras with the glow of her phone
lighting up the room. On the cameras, she sees the
front door is open. They get out of bed and
they open the bedroom door and are confronted by two intruders.
One of them, a seventeen year old boy, has an
eleven centimeter knife. Lee and Emma are startled. They try
(02:00):
to defend their house and protect their two teenage kids
by pushing the thieves outside. They didn't see the knife
until it was too late. The thieves run, but not
before Lee is stabbed in the back and kicked in
the face. As Lee has taken away in the ambulance,
his wife Emma is lying on their front lawn with
(02:23):
specialist paramedics performing open heart surgery because of a knife
wound to her heart, but it's too late. Emma passes
away on her front lawn a boxing day. This story
sounds like such a nightmare, sounds like it's from a movie,
(02:47):
but it's not. It's happening right across the country and
in Queensland right now. It's the worst sitting in Australia
for youth crime.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Queensland's youth crime pricess has reached new highs this morning,
with alarming figures confirming offenses are on the rise. You're
not the arrest joy ride stolen black Audi coming to
a dramatic end at Castle Gynoff.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
One of these juveniles is a prolific, serious repeat offender.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
This is the start of a robbery. The shop attendant
just doesn't know it yet, that is until their casual
conversations take a sinister tod It's one of these teenagers
appears to be armed. A woman tries pleading with them.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Lee's story is extreme, but every day we hear stories
of youth offenders stealing cars, breaking into houses, carjackings and
knife crime. In the year twenty twenty three to twenty
four in Queensland, there were over three thy three hundred
children between ten and seventeen years old who committed a
proven offense. Sixty eight percent of those reoffended within twelve months.
(04:01):
Sixty two percent of the crime in Queensland was around property,
seven percent of that crime was violent, and four percent
of it had drug involvement. Remember these are kids between
ten and seventeen years old. There's growing community anger over
Queensland's youth crime crisis after a woman was held at
knife point in her own home. It's a really complex issue,
(04:24):
with over eighty percent of youth offenders admitting to substance abuse.
Thirty eight percent of those have used ice or meth.
Almost half don't go to school or have a job,
or have been impacted by domestic and family violence. As
I said, it's a really complex issue. I can tell
(04:45):
your firsthand the feeling that you get when someone gets
into your safe space, your home, or your car. This
is nothing like Lee's story, but it's still affected me
and my family, and I'm going to let my wife
Katie tell the story. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
So for me, it was simple. I was on holiday
and had a pet sitter looking after our pets. She
called one morning to ask me to check the security
cameras because she thought that her car had been broken into.
We checked and at seven fifty five am on a
Friday morning, in the middle of school holidays, with two
cars parked in the driveway as a man he was
wearing a black Puma hoodie. On the camera, he reaches
(05:22):
down to his ankle to get something. It's grainy, so
we can't really see what it is, but looks like
maybe a knife or a screwdriver. Then he goes back
to his pocket and pulls out a white glove. He's
not bothered that it's in the middle of the morning,
like he could probably see the security camera. He's not
done anything to disguise himself. He looks like he's young,
(05:42):
possibly under eighteen. He looks into the car and then
he's disturbed, so he jumps into the neighbor's yard over
a one point eight meter fence, and then he disappears
from our cameras for two minutes and twenty two seconds,
and then he appears again, this time in our backyard.
Our back camera's now picking him up, so he must
(06:03):
have tried the neighbor's doors and not got in. He
then walks around to our laundry sliding door. The camera
down the side gate grabs a perfect picture of his face.
He tries the door, no luck. Our dog spots him.
She's barking. He then goes to another back door. She
keeps barking. He tries the door and opens the slider,
(06:23):
but luckily it has a security screen and he can't
get in. You can see him on the camera occasionally hiding.
We didn't know why until later. It was because the
pets that are inside with making toast. She was getting
ready for work, so he's been watching her, not bothered,
just watching and waiting. So the dog keeps barking. He
jumps the fence again. Next time we see him on
(06:45):
the front camera again by the car. He tries the
door and gets in. He quickly rummages in the car
using his gloved hand, being careful not to leave fingerprints,
so it's clear this isn't his first time. He gets
a few things from the car, nothing really valuable, then
runs to the front door of the house, tries the
front door, no luck, and then just as quickly as
(07:06):
he arrives, he's gone, the whole episode taking less than
eight minutes.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Now, as I said, that story is not to compare
it to Lee's story, but to talk about how it
changed things for us afterwards. We weren't at home, we're
on holidays, but the image of a man in a
hoodie in our backyard standing where we hang out our
washing freaked us out. When we got back home. It
took us weeks to actually go outside to hang out
the washing again, and that was after we installed more
(07:36):
cameras and put up some other new security measures in
our home. And I bought a baseball bat for under
the bed. Stupid, I know, because would I ever use it?
Probably not? So why do we need to do this?
We don't live in America where people carry guns. We
live in a quiet suburb of Brisbane, a place where
(07:58):
I would leave the back door unlocked while the kids
were in the pool or I was cooking a barbie.
I might leave the garage door open while I was
mowing the lawn or moving shopping inside from the car.
I used to leave my garage remote in the car
because it was easy. But because of this one guy,
all that's changed and our story isn't unique. So while
(08:24):
in this story we're going to tell you the story
of Lee and Emma and the pain and tragedy and
the aftermath their family, it has a subtext to it.
Why is this happening in Queensland, the worst state in
Australia for youth crime. What's being done about it? And
is it enough? Can we learn from anyone else? And
(08:45):
when does it change? And I guess the big question
is who's to blame. The idea of this podcast was
to highlight these stories to make them real. It's not
about scaring you, it's about saying, now, more than ever,
(09:05):
they could happen to anyone. Lee and his family were
normal people, living a normal life when something like this
changed their lives forever. In May twenty twenty four, the
seventeen year old that murdered Lee's wife in their home
was sentenced. We'll talk about that sentence with Lee shortly,
but first let's understand why Lee and Emma moved to
(09:26):
Brisbane from the UK in the first place.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
Emma and I met when she was like nineteen and
I was like twenty one. I think back then she
used toll working like the job center back in Ipswich
and the UK. We got sort of set up via
a friend, you know, a typical thing. I was like, oh,
I got any single friends, and then she's like, yeah,
come back on Wednesday when the Wednesday Night went round,
(09:51):
and then Emma was there and we sort of met
a bit, you know, and then and then the Friday
night the Frauvers went out. And I was never very
good at with the girls back then that you know,
and you know, like her friend, Emma's friend Christina, you know,
and she's like, you gotta do something, I know, if
you know, like shut up something like it's just pressure
me into this that, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
But yeah, it's sort of to start from there. And then.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
But yeah, Emma was always very focused on work and
learning and trying to improve herself. And she got into
doing like accounts and then.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Was then for a while they're doing like.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
An evening course, you know, to get her qualifications up
in accounts and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And then I guess what sort of personality.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
She was quite shy really, you know, I didn't really
like to put herself out there too much. And but
I suppose the two of us together, you know, she
was quite chatty and quite a fun person to be around,
and just I don't know, isundily arrant here, but like
vary into me and you know, and then eventually like
with our kids, and I think she was just almost
(10:58):
like born to be our mum. So she wanted to
be to a certain extent. And I would have given
her life for a kids now, you know. And so
you've got two kids.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Scarlett was born in two thousand and seven and Cassie
was born in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
What was Emma like as mum.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
Yeah, like I said, just a sort of devoted mum
really and just trying to do everything we can to
provide as much as we can for them and give
them the best life we could.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Really.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So at what stage do you think, you know what
Australia might be the place to go.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
I was so we'd had Cassie at that time, and
you know, Emma was at home.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I'm maternity to leave because.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
She went back to work after having Scarlet and then
then we had Cassie and then she was off for
like I think back, you get like nine months off
or something, and I remember like she went back to work.
I think she's only back at work like a day,
and she was like I don't want to I don't
want to leave her in childcare. I'm like, I'll just
don't go back to work. Then I'll work and you
stay at home. And yeah, that's how it happened for
(12:00):
us really, but then for Australia, like I was at
work one day and she just finded about the blue
and she's like, we hadn't really talked about this.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
You know, we had things.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
We had been traveling to Australia back in two thousand
and two, so we both had a little understanding about
what Australia was like. But then she phoned me up
and was just we can get visas or permanent residency
visas to Australia, okay, And She's like, back then, the
one we had was trying to get was you needed
one hundred and twenty points to get PR and we
could get like one hundred and twenty five with my trade.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
And all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
And I was like, because then she was saying, oh,
you don't need to get even if you get visa
straight away, you don't have to leave straight away. You've
got like a five year period that you need to
end in the country, buy something like well, it's a
start it, you know. Then that was like early two
thousand and eight, and then by that point the whole
like GFC had like kicked in, and then you know, my.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Trade got put on hold and then it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Until like twenty eleven when things start to improve. And
then because within that, you know, between two and two eleven,
I discovered what seek, so I was often looking on
there for and then we sort of sort of settled
on we want to go to Brisbane.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And then.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
Well, because I think at the time we thought that
we couldn't really we never had done like the West Coast,
you know, but like.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
We couldn't really afford like Sydney. Like everyone we knew,
we probably couldn't afford it.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
To move there, whereas it probably would have been a
more at times, so maybe thought it would have been
the nicer place or a better place to go. But
then you know, I suppose when we were traveling we
both liked Brisbane.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
At the time.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
And then and this one job come up for like
roseland demolition. They're down in Bango, and yeah, so I
just emailed and said, you know, I've just got my
pr we're in the press of selling our house. I'm
applying for the job. So they replied and we had
a chat on Skye thing he offered me the job.
So I got I got to Australia on the fourth
of November, and I think I then started work on
(13:50):
the on the seventh, which was the Monday.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I said, I was like staying with my boss at
the time, and.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So Lee and Emma moved to Australia. In fact, Lee
comes out first to start his job, and Emma has
told him that she's not moving out with the kids
until he finds a house. Lee needs to find a
place quick, so he decides Ont Lakes. It's an area
that's growing fast. Your houses everywhere, shopping centers, schools going up,
and it's not too far from the Sunny Coast and
(14:16):
the city of Brisbane.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
It sounds funny, but it was probably like the hardest
three weeks of my life. You know. You think that,
like you're.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
Confident and strong and emotional, I suppose to make that
leap into a new country, but.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
It was just so hard without her, like, you know,
her being my support, you know, and I don't know,
it was really really challenging not having her here for
those three weeks, you know. And I was so grateful
when she turned up, you know, and you know, it's
not just it's not just like moving house. You move
in country people new town, don't know where anyone is,
don't know anything that moment, you know, and not having
(14:57):
her here was like so hard. Like maybe I never
told her how hard I found it, but yeah, that
was really hard. Really, So yeah, before we left, you know, again,
like looking online, Emma had heard about North Lakes there's
obviously a lot of English moving here, and so my
(15:17):
boss lived in dunder So like at the weekend's predominantly
I was sort of driving up here to North Lakes
and just having a look around, driving around, and then
Emma stipulation was like, I'm not moving over until we've
got us a house, you know. So that's why I
was a bit desperate to find somewhere and get all
the forms put in water. So yeah, as soon as
I phoned her up and says, look, I've got this place,
(15:37):
then she booked the tickets like straight away. So, and
what did you like about North Lakes when you first
come up? I suppose I thought it was quite a
nice area. It was nice because the shops. You know,
it's before the shops got extended, you know, but the
shops are pretty big, and you know, like I suppose
I liked it. I still like that now because I
like the way you can sort of come off the
highway and it's like its own suburb.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
You know.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
It's like there's a lot of suburbs, you know, or
towards towards the city. You know, they all just sort
of blend into one, didn't they. Because you're driving through
those main roads. But I always found that North Thanks
got to come off and it's his own area, and
there's a nice little parks around and nice modern houses
and that sort of stuff that you know, And yeah,
I had no issues with it when we first started
looking around.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
As I drove up to Lee's house to record the interview,
the same house that his wife was killed in, it
reminded me of a small English village. About a kilometer
away from their house is the police station. There's the
Mengo Hill Police station, which is literally, yeah, less than
four minutes away from their house.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
It's a beautiful area.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So why was Lee's house targeted? Was it random or
was it more than that? Why did two seventeen year
olds break into Lee's house and not anyone else's. We'll
get to that shortly, but let's go back to Christmas
twenty twenty two, the last Christmas that Emma spent with
her family.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
Leading up to that, Like, we're generally gone around like
a friends a friends of ours sort of the few
roads away, and we generally spent like Christmas Day for them.
But they they didn't want to do Christmas dinner, and
so they suggested like down at the lake. There was
like a boarderwalk hotel. You could do like one of
(17:28):
these like two hour sort of Christmas dinner things for
four hour things, but it was a lot of money,
and we said that, you know, we don't want to
do that, Like, you know, if you guys want to
do that and then come around of ours afterwards, then
you know, feel free. And then a little bit later
on it was like, I want, don't we go to
the beach insteads you know, I was like, I don't
really want to do that, you know, I just want
us to be at home, but you know, and then
(17:48):
I thought there'd be a bit more about a local beach,
but we ended up going to Point Ark right up
on the Sunshine Coast, and it was it was quite
a enjoyable day.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Actually, you know that it was a bit sort of overcast,
but still quite warm.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
And it's bizarre because it's Christmas Day and you just
have always liked spent at home to be at the beach,
and you know, but it was a nice day, you know,
like I said, it was. We had a bit of
a laugh and a joke and then sort of came
back and then you know, our friends came around ours
afterwards and had some drinks and that sort of stuff. Yeah,
like Christmas Day was quite a nice day, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And the kids at the stage are I guess thirteen
and fifteen. Yeah, and so Chris was pretty exciting for
kids at that age, right, not as exciting as is
when they're eight and ten.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Yeah, but like Emma always made it really nice for them,
and you know, like I didn't sounds funny, but like
I don't know, like a lot of guys maybe like
I didn't always know what like Ema had got, like
I don't know why, but she just went off and
got he's the presents and you know, always made the
day nice for the girls. And even at that age,
you know, there was a stocking where you know, that
(18:54):
stocking was the presence decide we from Santa, you know.
Then everything else was from us, you know, and it
was always you know, the stuff from center was things
like canna coke or you know, some socks or underwear,
I don't know, just stuff like that, you know, and
then always like bigger stuff maybe more expensive, but we're
from US and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You know.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
So yeah, she always made it like pretty nice, like
for the girls. I was suppose we did, really, you know,
but then we'd because like Scarlet was seeing a like
a boy at the time. So I think for like
the twenty seventh, we'd planned on having like Christmas dinner
that day because of missing out on having Christmas dinner
on Christmas Day because we just cooked like bacon and
eggs at the beach, took a little like gast over
(19:31):
as you know, and cooked up. And so I think
we were planning on going to the shops on the
twenty seventh thing to get food for you know.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
That day and that sort of stuff. But you know,
obviously like we never got any really, so.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So Boxing Day what traditionally, what what do you do
on Boxing Day?
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Well, that day, Scarlet I want to go around and
see her boyfriend at the time. So we all drove
to you know, sort of scar but dropped her off
and then am I and Cassie when you've been down
at the front there it was like a little cafe
and we got like a there's a coffee and I
remember it being such a such a windy day but
(20:09):
so hot as well, and you know, I was trying
to sort of keep under an umbrella of the trying
and sort of keep out of the sun, and then
you know, we sort of had a coffee, then sort
of had a bit of walk along the front and
then I think we must have then sort of come
back to the shops, got some more food or something
and whatever, and then sort of come home. And then
I don't think we really left after that. So yeah,
that evening and we sort of like cooked tea and
(20:33):
then we ended up just like watching a film and
it finished about nine thirty and then so yeah, like I.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Sort of into bed. Like I said before, we were
like reasonably tired and you know.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
And I didn't want to start putting another film like
nine to thirty like sort of the time, So the
two of us just went to bed, and I thought
Cassie did as well, but she must have stayed up
like just watching Netflix on the ropead.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I just want to talk about the house if I
can quickly. A single story house, master bedrooms down towards
the front, is it.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
Yeah, See, if you're looking at front door, the master
bedroom is on the right hand side, and then the
left hand side of the hallway is then our living room.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, and then you walk down into this kitchen area
where we are right now, and then off to the
corridor is I'm guessing bathrooms.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, three bedrooms and a bathroom from aud you know,
see a couple of dogs walking around. The dogs were.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Back then, like for a while, we had let the
dogs sleep on a bed because our bigger look sheddy
hair constantly. Like we just force them, like sleep in
the kitchen. They've got a bed there and we've got
those like fabric dog things that pull out, so you know,
we sort of trap them in the kitchen at nighttime
so they can't get through to the kids bedrooms or
down the hallway so they can they can still get
out of the night.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Through the dog door, but you know, they just slept
in the kitchen back then.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I'm looking now, I can see a camera up in
the in the roof in the kitchen. Here is that
camera new camera or was that installed back in the day.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
No, that was put in like in January twenty one
or something that sort of looked at our kitchen because
that's we went away and we just want to make
sure the dogs are okay. We could see them, so
we added that one extra. But you know, we've got
other cameras around the back of the house, and then
there's that there's a camera that points at our front door,
and then there's another camera that sort of shines over
our driveway and then partly over my vehicle and then
(22:15):
part over the garden at the front.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
There we use security conscious or like in this area,
were were you aware of security or break ins or
anything like that.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I suppose I remember back then that you know, there
had been.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
House is sort of broken into and cars broken into.
I think the reason we put the cameras in is
because the kids were getting to a bit older and
Emma was starting to go out and like leave the
kids at home, and yeah, we just want to make
sure that we could sort of see around the house
(22:51):
and then make sure no one was getting in and
you know, for their safety.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I think, you know, for hours to.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
Check on them, not really because of an issue with
you know, crime within the area. I think that's why
we've got it done, if I remember rightly.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So, Yeah, while I'm in the house talk with Lee
on this Sunday morning in North Lakes, his eldest daughter,
Scarlett was sitting at the breakfast bench having breakfast. I think,
to be honest, it was about giving her dad some
moral support. Scarlett was there the night all of this
happened to their family, and she also remembers the time
before this night that she was scared in the house.
This audio is a little bit harder to hear because
(23:25):
Scarlett is sitting away from the microphones. You're also sparked
up a bit more after you and mom walking the
dogs one night and I messaged her saying that I
felt like I was being watched from.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
In my bedroom. Yeah, I do remember that. Yeah, And then.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Like you guys then brought up the topic of getting
cameras because I mentioned that. Yeah, I don't know whether
anyone was there at a time or not, but that's
what Scarlett said, So it sort of made us sort
of want to put the cameras in. So, yeah, I
just bought the kit from Jaca, and between member and
I we sort of installed ourselves, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, you go to bed about nine thirty boxing day night,
talk to me about what happens.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
It's about sort of eleven thirty, and like I said,
we were both sort of both asleep, and then our
little dog predominantly that I remember, like her barking, and
sometimes I both dogs have barked in the past and
you know, maybe there's a dog over the road starts
bike and so ours do. And you know, neverbody concerned
me too much. And then I don't know, well, they'd
hear annoise outside, but then sometimes they would bark, and
(24:28):
then a couple of minutes late and they'd sort.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Of settle down.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
A few seconds late, we woud settle down, and you'd
just drift drift off back to sleep again and owned up.
Pepper kept barking and barking and barking and wouldn't stop,
and he carried on a bit more. And then so
I was sort of, you know, i'd sort of winking
up and then and then sort of just turned over
and looked at Emma and she sort of laying on
her back in bed, and then you know, see her
on her phone, and she was like front door open,
(24:53):
and I didn't I didn't even cross my mind that
like someone was in the house. But I just wanted
to get up to like shut the door to make
sure no one was going to get in the house,
because we had had issues at least once or twice
where you know, the door was pushed to but even
like one Saturday, random we were sitting in the front
room and then like the door just opened and the
door run away. Oh maybe maybe the door hasn't been
(25:15):
pushed too properly and it's come open. So you know,
I suppose within the blink of an eye toimething, that's
the thought that goes through your mind, like just get
up and close the door.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
So yeah, sort of, you know, because my side.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Had been I suppose it's slightly closer than him, as
I suppose, but I think we both like rushed to the.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Door, and it wasn't if she laid in bed.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
We both rushed to the door, and you know, I
opened up the bedroom door.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And yeah, there was like this guy sort of standing
right in front of the bedroom door. And then I
remember seeing the second guy.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
He was in our living room where our sofa is,
and then he was then walking back towards the hallway
or then coming back towards the hallway in the next episode,
Like I thought that as we sort of come out
the door and then try to sort of hang off
(26:10):
like around his neck, and then I think I sort
of slipped and then as I went on to the ground,
and then he sort of then kicked me twice maybe
three times.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I think at least like twice in her face. And then.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
And the next thing, I know, I looked at Emma
and she was like this, you know, sort of she'd
moved a bit, but like she was on in front
of me, like laying on the floor with her back
to me, you know, so you know, and it was
a bit of a shock to like see her there
because I was like, you know, second ago, she was
like standing up, but standing in front of me there.
And next thing, she's lay on the floor in case
he come back with the phone, and you know, she
(26:46):
was like, mummy's bleeding, and I remember, like, what do
you mean she's bleeding?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And then was over. I sort of kneeled over and
looked at her.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Left side and he was here, our left side of
the ninety dislike actually the sucking blood.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And then that panic sets in and then
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