September 1, 2024 • 27 mins
Lee and Emma Lovell are confronted with 2 armed intruders in thier home.
As they struggle to get them outside and protect their children, both are stabbed.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Approache Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's eleven thirty pm on Boxing Day in twenty twenty two.
Emma and her husband Lee have watched a movie and
they're fast asleep in their North Lake's home, just north
of Brisbane City. The two teenage girls are in their rooms.
They've got security cameras inside the house and some in
(00:30):
the driveway. There's one camera that can see the front door.
Emma wakes up first because they're two dogs are going wild,
barking really loud. She nudges Lee. He wakes up to
the glare of Emma's phone. She's looking at the security
cameras and she notices that the front door is wide open.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
And then you know, I see her on her phone
and she was like front doors open. And I didn't
I didn't even cross my mind that like someone was
in the house. But I just want to get up
to shut the door, to make sure no one was
going to get house, because we had had issues at
least once or twice where you know, the door was
pushed to But you know, I suppose within the blink
(01:13):
of an eye timething, that's the thought that goes through
your mind, like just get up and close the door.
So yeah, sort of, you know, because my side had
the been I suppose it's slightly closer than them, as
I suppose, but I think we both like rushed to
the door, and it wasn't if she laid in bed.
We both rushed to the door, and you know, I
opened up the bedroom door, and yeah, there was like
(01:33):
this guy sort of standing right in front of the
bedroom door. And then I remember seeing the second guy.
He was in our living room where our sofa is,
and then he was then walking back towards the hallway
or then coming back towards the hallway. So I don't know,
it's one of those things where you don't really think
(01:53):
about what you're doing. I don't think you really to
a risk assessment. What am I to do now? And
you know, you just sort of you act on impulse,
I think, and you know, you just sort of remember
trying to get the the one who's immediately by the
door like out of the house. And did you see
a weapon?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Was there a weapon?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Not? You? No, No, Like I didn't even know till
long after that that there were like you know, obviously
they had a knife or obviously if I didn't even
know too A long time after that Emma had been hurt,
you know, so you know, you were just pushed him
out of the door, and there was a bit of
a scuffle by the door. And then I remember thinking
(02:32):
at the time, and I don't know why, but I
remember the think time, like, you know, I could just
get the guy down, you know, you know, on the
ground and in a headlock or something like, then I
can sort of just hold him there till the police
get there and they can over. Like I said, I
didn't know he had a knife, you know, and I
just knew that like if I give him a headlock,
I could I could keep him there. And I didn't
I didn't know who's gonna be faking with the police
(02:52):
and there, you know, and and so then I sort
of still asleep. I thought they were yeah, yeah, So
like I thought that would be sort of come out
of the door. I didn't try to sort of hang
off like around his and then I think I sort
of slipped and then as I went onto the ground,
and then he sort of then kicked me twice, maybe
(03:12):
three times, I think at least like twice in her face.
And then I sort of got up and then onto
my knees and then like I sort of looked to
my right where my truck was, and then I think
like one of the guys that maybe like run into
it or something, because it looked like he was like
getting up and then like running away. I think that's
what I saw. And at the time, remember like seeing
(03:35):
Emma standing and she was like sited to you know,
sort of in front of me as such. And then
I see like Cassie at the door and I was like,
I can't get my phone and she's like where is it.
I'm like about half o'clock, you know. It was. It
was a brief conversation like that, and the next thing
I know, I looked at him and she was like this,
you know, she'd moved a bit, but like she was
like in front of me, like laying on the floor
(03:58):
with her back to me, you know, you know, and yeah,
that sort of position and feetal position. I suppose you
and I lay on our side. And it was a
bit of a shop to like see her there because
I was like, you know, second a guy, she was
like standing up but standing in front of me there,
And next thing she's lay on the floor and like,
I think I've got my phone, Casey come back. With
(04:19):
the phone, and you know, she was like, mummy's bleeding,
and I remember, like, what do you mean she just bleeding?
And then it was over. I sort of kneeled over
looked at her left side and you can see the
left side of the ninety, just like a glad and
then that panic sets in. And then but there was
a like diagonally to left of us, there was a
(04:41):
guy like putting some stuff in his car or whatever.
And it was one of those things where you're like,
did you have to see what happened? You know, like
this commotion is are happening? You know, So I'm shouting
out here, trying to whistle and shout him, and he
sort of came over. And then I think I sort
of later learned. I think that like being our neighbor
(05:02):
diagonally right of us, he came down as well. And
I think they may have been on their balcony at
the time or something, so maybe they hurt me shout
help or something. I'm not not really too sure. And
like he was there as well, and then you know,
I was speaking of like Chipple zero.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
At the time and.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Trying to tell them what's happened, and you know, but
then they ask what then questions are, you know, like
name address, you know, what's happened?
Speaker 5 (05:27):
Can you feel or hear any breathing.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
You know, like she's bleeding, I don't know whatever. IM Like,
they were like, is she breathing? I'm like, now, I
don't know, like you know, you're trying to check, and
I'm like, just get here, you know, like and and yeah,
just I suppose in some ways, like I don't know
how long it did take to get there, but it
just felt like forever for them to sort of turn
up really And but then I since found out that,
(05:51):
like I think what happens is that, like, you know,
the I think that the operator person is then maybe
reporting back to the police, and I think they sort
of have to make sure that the paramedics are not
coming to an area where it's potentially still like armed people,
you know. So I think the police have to turn
up and potentially make you know, either come with the
paramedics to make sure they're escorted or whatever, or make
(06:15):
sure there's still no one in the area. And so yeah,
I'm pretty sure I see it. Like I could be wrong,
but I'm pretty sure there was a cop I turned
up and he just went and was like skidded in
position and then started doing like a CPR when Emma
and I was like, you haven't even checked that, you know,
but you're doing it like CPR. But I suppose maybe
they just know that like it's not good or whatever,
(06:36):
you know. So but I think there was like because
like when after I was off the phone to the police,
oh sorry, the triple zero, I suppose I felt like
I needed a phone someone. So I was trying to
phone my friends, like you know, I'm friend Chris. He
(06:57):
lives by the King with his wife, and I tried
phoning him, like you know, four times or something, but
you know, he didn't pick up, and trying to try
his wife Liz as well, but like she didn't pick
up as well, you know, you know, so then yeah,
yeah again. Then like I quickly like scroll from my phone,
and then my friend Dan who lives around the corner,
(07:17):
like I found him, and you know, I remember like
shouting down and down the factors get around here, Garanny now,
you know, and you know, like he's looking up. He
was up and he's like I am running around the
corner to you know, like all these enbulances and police
and everyone, and so.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
He thought he was coming into a house where like
literally everyone who was like dead my dad.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
But then like when he came through the hallway because
Katy and I were sent to go back a bag
that night, so he ran through our room, I was like, scary,
but he was going to open the door to like
I was like, well yeah, and he's like why does
it goes? And then he sees us and just runs
over and us and what happened? And so my friend
(08:06):
like said, like Chris, like he must have realized he
missed some of some calls and afterwards reflected about this,
and he was like, I don't like we know it
all his phone anyway that you know, lots time we
miss each other or whatever. But he was like, it's
running bizarre feeling me phonely like four times on you
know anyway, but especially on box evening. He was like,
I think something's up. So he came around and it
(08:32):
was apparently armed police, and uh, They're like who are you?
And he had just saying and I think he was
allowed to come through to the house, but I think
they told him what had happened to him.
Speaker 5 (08:52):
So Chris Jones rushed to the house on Monday night
after a panicked call from his best night lead just devastating.
Speaker 6 (09:01):
I mean, you see Lee and the girls who are
with us at the moment. I don't think you need
to think too hard how they are.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It's just not sunk in.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Do you know that Emma's pasted or do you or they.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Just because I'm in the paramedics were there. They obviously
had some sort of mobile machine and cocked her up,
and initially she didn't have a pulse, but then you know,
they were doing like CPR. They got to they got
a pulse back and then because I was bleeding and
I'm like arm in my back and to yeah, you
(09:40):
didn't realize no, like it wasn't then because I just
had my underwear, you know, and I didn't realize I
was even bleaning anything. I suppose a gentlemen is pumping.
And I think it was like skun that that said,
like you know, because she stood behind me and she
was like, you're bleeding, and I'm like, am I what?
You know? Then you sort of feel the trickle of
blinding run down my back, and I'm like and then
(10:03):
you start thinking, like, you know, is I'm a dad?
Then you think like I can't die, I can't leave
the kids at the orphane, And there's that sort of
thought goes through your head. So but then the ambulance
people want to get me in the ambulance and were
you know, hitting me up with like morphine and give
me some white fentanyl or something or whatever. And I
(10:24):
don't think that really done a great deal really.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So while Lee is being rushed to hospital, he's been
told that the ambulance that is with Emma would be
following close by and they would meet at the hospital.
At least two teenage girls are at the house. They've
been told to pack a bag by a neighbor because
they wouldn't be staying in the house that night.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
So when I was in the ambulance, I quickly sort
of phoned Emma's brother and because somebody like midday for
them Boxing day, so trying to get out as much
I could about what happened, and then the police waped
my phone, so I had to hand my phone over
and then yeah, I got taken off the hospital saying.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Emma's family is flying in from the UK tonight. Will
North Lake's residents have launched a petition calling for repeat
offenders not to be granted bail and.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
The kids so go with someone to her friends or something.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah, well they went with Dan and Cat around to
their house. Like I said, I saw three houses around
the corner really, so it was funny really, but like
I didn't really In hindsight, I suppose I didn't really
think about them too much because I don't know, there
was just like a lot going on, like with myself,
(11:37):
what with them, I suppose I suppose made me the
back of mind. I knew that they were sort of okay,
they were Dan, I knew, you know, we've known each
other for like years, So I suppose I just knew
that they were in safe fans, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
So Lee's wife Emma died on the way to hospital
in the ambulance after paramedics tried to save a life
on their front lawn. Lee's in a hospital waiting to
find out when you can go and see her. At
this stage, he doesn't know that she hasn't made it.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I don't even know how long I was there. I'm
guessing I was probably there at least a couple of
hours because they were checking my back out and get
me to do like seating scans or whatever. And then
it's funny really because like you know, initially that there
was heaps of heaps of people in the room and
you know, nurses and adopted or whatever, and then then
(12:29):
they all just sort of just seemed to left, and
then it was just then myself and this one other
nurse and I went a bit sort of quiet, and
we were sort of just chatting, and and then this
this guy for another room come through, the older guy
wearing all sort of black. I don't know what he was.
Maybe he was trained to sort tell people those sort
of things. And yeah, they comes through and says, you know,
(12:51):
and see here, and I think, and you know, they
tried doing everything they could, but they were unable to
say that, you know. And then that sort of shock
sets in, I suppose, because you're like, she was live
the last time I see it. I was told she
was going to be following me, Like what do you
mean she hasn't made it, you know. And then yeah,
so I tried getting off the bed, and then you know,
(13:14):
the nurse sort of helped me go through the sort
of cemma. And then I don't even think I spent
a couple of minutes away her. Really I spent a
short amount of time with her, and I spoke to
her and and I was like, right, I've got to
get out of here to get back to the kids,
(13:35):
you know. So I think at that time, I just
like I had some shorts with me, you know, I
got Castie to getting me some shorts before I left.
I did have a T shirt, so that's right, but
I cut that off, so I didn't even have a
T shirt to put on. And you know I've said
this before, but there was a couple of police now
I think from my Brisbane city or something, and I
(13:55):
said to them that, you know, because in my mind,
in Lee's world, I was like, someone's going to bring
me back to North Lakes in a in an ambulance
that you know, I was like, how am I getting hime?
Like I don't have a fair I can't find a
new bit because I would have done that. I would
have done anything to get back. And they sort of
undernared a bit really because because at first, like I thought,
(14:15):
maybe I've just read the situation wrong, like like you
don't want to take me something, Because even the nurse
was like, if these guys don't take it, I'll go
and get my car. And I'll take you, you know,
and eventually they were like, oh, I can come with us,
and then you know, it took me back to North Lakes,
but well, actually they didn't. They took me to a
Redcliffe and then like this this LG then sort of
took my statement and I was like, where are the
kids and they were like, oh, you know, they're going
(14:35):
to come here, and they never turned up on a
police station, which was like really frustrating that, you know.
And I had like a blanket because I was shivering
or whatever, and it just felt like ages we were
doing this like buddy interviewing it, you know, in this statement,
and I just want to get home to the kids
that you know. And then it must have been getting
like five point thirty six sometimes round about that, and
then they were like, oh, you know, we're done.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
And then did the kids know by this stage the
demera had passed no because this scream yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Because the kids had like an iPhone each and she
put like a screenlike on their phones. I think it
was from maybe ten ten thirty till maybe like sort
of six six thirty in the more and they couldn't
use their phones, you know. She didn't want being on
the phones during the night and that sort of stuff.
So yeah, they couldn't be on their phone, so they
they eventually I found out that they because they were
(15:28):
like they set it down a cat. So they then
got taken Chris turned up and he took them with
leaves back to their house. And so yeah, anyway, like
I when I was at the police station, like when
I got my phone and threw my watch, I had
a message come through from my niece in the UK,
just saying that, you know, her, Emma's brother and Emma's
(15:51):
mum were on the way to the airport, but there
was a police guy. I said to this woman doing
the you know statement, She said, I'll take him back
to his house or friends out or whatever and then
gives a call when you're done. So she took me
back to my friend's house and then I sort of
got out of the car, and you know, because I
thought that maybe my friends had said to the kids
of like what happened, but like enough they hadn't. And
(16:15):
I've gotten out of the car. I had a quick
tack to my friend and he said, like kids inside,
oh blah blah blah whatever, And I turned around to
look at the police woman because I thought she was
going to come in with us and she'd just gone,
and I'm like, thanks for that, thanks for the support,
you know, and I just thought that, you know, she
(16:37):
was going to come in and it sounds weird, but
you know, hold my hand, make a coffee, do something,
you know, help me talk to the kids. But there
was no support there, so yeah, so I had to
go in and I didn't really tell the kids too
much about what happened really, and they were like, oh,
I think the scarlet was like, where's mommy because she
(16:58):
was looking behind me, thinking that, you know, she was
going to be with me. But I was like, oh,
you know, we need to talk. And I think I
said she didn't make it, and yeah, kids to a
grind in my arm.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
So that's got to be, I'm guessing, one of the
hardest things you've ever had to do.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, And then, like you, I think for a while,
I didn't really cry. And then even when I was
in the hospital with Emma after then told me what happened,
I don't I may have done for a short time,
but I don't know I even cried then. And then
later on you think, like, what is wrong? With me
(17:43):
not crying. You know, my wife face has been murdered
and I'm not crying, and and even talking to the girls,
you know, like we ended up like in a pile
on the floor and you know, like you're hugging them,
and I don't remember like crying too much then, and
(18:04):
you know you just think like what is ron me?
Like you know, and and then and then yeah, like
reality sets in a bit more and then it's all
over the news because like I said, like it was
like probably six thirty or something, and the kids got
access to their phones and by that time it's all
over like social media.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And a woman has been killed in a horrifying home
invasion in Brisbane's North Forty one year old Emma Lovell
was allegedly stabbed while fighting off her at seventeen year
old boys been charged like murder. Tracked down by please
Dogs to a nearby site early on Tuesday, especially like the.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Like all North Lakes community page, and I think I
was looking on the heir and they were just like
someone that and we used to do ironing for. And
she'd put on the on the page something about like
you know, my friend lives up that road and I've
tried doing it a welfare check, and you know, she
(19:04):
had an I'm just repy.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
So when do you hear that they've arrested the two boys.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I'm not really too sure. To be honest, like I
put it, would have said it was like later on
that day. I think later on that day, like the
police came around and a couple of detectives there, So
I think I would have found out there, But I'm
not extightly too sure, but it was probably the next day.
I'm guessing, you know, a few hours later I was told,
because I do know since then, I have found out
(19:35):
that within you know, three or four hours, they'd got
them at the house around the car from us. You know.
Speaker 7 (19:44):
Unfortunately, police were called to the address late last night.
I confronted with a horrific scene. Paramedics did all they
possibly put but unfortunately the lady passed away and she
had An investigation was commenced and through some very good
investigative skills demonstrated by the detectives and many to locate
(20:06):
four persons who were taken into custody. I can say
at this point in time that two of those people,
a seventeen year old boyfriend Zunia and a seventeen year
old boy from Holland Park will be charged later today
with murder, attempted murder and breaking into.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
It's heartbreaking to think that my best friend took her
last breath because somebody decided they needed what was in
their house. But they'd bought this house for them to
keep their children in, to keep their children safe in,
(20:48):
and just took her last breath and died in what
is such a heroic act trying to keep them keep
her baby safe.
Speaker 7 (21:05):
Message to the community is this is a tub of
sad day that someone's life has been taken in this way.
I still struggle to understand why these types of violet
times occurred, and it's occurred again, and we need to
work together as a community to say no to this
type of violence and also support each other when it
(21:26):
occurs and does something to try and defer or deter
people and command those types of offenses.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Lee was stabbed in the back and kicked a few
times in the face. Emma was stabbed in her side.
It perforated the backside of her heart. All of it
was captured on Lee's CCTV, including the audio that Lee
doesn't ever want to hear again.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
They had already previously I'd heard the audio because the
guy over the rover musk didn't have any footage that
his camera has actually got the audio, so that in
court they played that, but the girls and I left
for that because i'd heard that before and I don't
want to hear that again. But they played the TV
(22:18):
footage from the night is, you know, from all of
us sort of coming out the door and then and
then some of that on outside on the grass, and
my recognition recollection of what happened to what actually did
happen was slightly different. I think I said to you
previously that we sort of came out the door and
I thought I tried getting him on into a headlock,
(22:41):
but that wasn't quite the case. It turns out that
after we came out, I think, like Emma and I
were then fighting with them out on the grass, and
you know, and then you know, something else happened and
then that's when I then tried getting him in the
headlock and fell or whatever. So, yeah, there was that
that evening played that longer than what I remember.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Really, So how was it watching that vision again in court?
And the kids were there too, I guess.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, Like there was a few screens up and I
was sort of watching it, but in also not really
paying that much attention, if that makes sense. I sort
of that watched it, but didn't you know, so it
was pretty hard to watch, you know. And then like
I said, like for to see us all sort of
come out the door and then be on the grass,
(23:32):
and then like I said, like to see what actually
happened from what my memory remembered was yeah, a little
bit sort of shocking really, you know, And yeah, it
was pretty hard to watch, you know. Like I said,
we watched that and then left really so yeah, because
that's when they played the audio, so we left for that.
And then yeah, then the defense goes into the background
of the guy involved, and.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
We can't name these two men that committed the crime
because at the time they were under the age of eighteen.
In fact, one of them was just three months from
turning eighteen. One of the effect has been sentenced in jail.
We'll talk about that sentence and what Lee thinks of
it later in the series. The other is before the courts,
(24:13):
and the news of his sentence may be released as
we're releasing these episodes. But for now, let's talk about
one of the seventeen year old's rap sheets. Before he
murdered Emma. This seventeen year old had never spent any
time in custody, although he had eighty four convictions. His
first crime was committed in May of twenty twenty. At
(24:36):
the start of COVID, he was just fifteen years old.
Sixteen of his crimes involved unlawful entry into premises, two
of those while the families were inside. Eleven offenses were
about breaking into cars or stealing them. Not once was
he placed into custody. Instead, he was sentenced to a
(24:56):
probation order of somewhere between three and nine months. Those
probation orders meant a weekly meeting with the youth Justice
worker for between forty five minutes to an hour. It
was a research based program which targeted offending behavior in
a view to reducing future offending. This teenager was on
(25:18):
a probation order when he murdered Emma. It would seem
for this boy who was soon to be a man,
that didn't work. I'm keen to understand why did it,
(25:40):
what led him to this. In my conversations with Lee,
he also had some clear thoughts on what the punishment
should be for a crime like this, an adult crime.
He also agrees it's complex and knows that it didn't
start from nowhere. There is always a cause. We're going
to explore that in the next few episodes, but first
(26:00):
I want to go back to this seventeen year old boy,
the one that's been charged and sentenced for the murder
of Emma Lovell. It wasn't the first time this offender
had used a knife in a home invasion to stab someone.
In twenty twenty, when he was just fifteen turning sixteen,
he stabbed someone else.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
Well, the next thing in my mind was looking down
the end of the bed and then seeing the figure
of a person at the end of the bed. I
don't think there was a lot of thought from this
point onwards.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
I started to move and went out.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
Of the bedroom, and then I jump up and in
a very loud I feel it was aggressive now telling
someone to get the f out of my house, and
I started chasing this person.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
You'll hear more from Aaron and his wife Christine in
the next episode of Who's to Blame.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
M
Approache Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's eleven thirty pm on Boxing Day in twenty twenty two.
Emma and her husband Lee have watched a movie and
they're fast asleep in their North Lake's home, just north
of Brisbane City. The two teenage girls are in their rooms.
They've got security cameras inside the house and some in
(00:30):
the driveway. There's one camera that can see the front door.
Emma wakes up first because they're two dogs are going wild,
barking really loud. She nudges Lee. He wakes up to
the glare of Emma's phone. She's looking at the security
cameras and she notices that the front door is wide open.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
And then you know, I see her on her phone
and she was like front doors open. And I didn't
I didn't even cross my mind that like someone was
in the house. But I just want to get up
to shut the door, to make sure no one was
going to get house, because we had had issues at
least once or twice where you know, the door was
pushed to But you know, I suppose within the blink
(01:13):
of an eye timething, that's the thought that goes through
your mind, like just get up and close the door.
So yeah, sort of, you know, because my side had
the been I suppose it's slightly closer than them, as
I suppose, but I think we both like rushed to
the door, and it wasn't if she laid in bed.
We both rushed to the door, and you know, I
opened up the bedroom door, and yeah, there was like
(01:33):
this guy sort of standing right in front of the
bedroom door. And then I remember seeing the second guy.
He was in our living room where our sofa is,
and then he was then walking back towards the hallway
or then coming back towards the hallway. So I don't know,
it's one of those things where you don't really think
(01:53):
about what you're doing. I don't think you really to
a risk assessment. What am I to do now? And
you know, you just sort of you act on impulse,
I think, and you know, you just sort of remember
trying to get the the one who's immediately by the
door like out of the house. And did you see
a weapon?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Was there a weapon?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Not? You? No, No, Like I didn't even know till
long after that that there were like you know, obviously
they had a knife or obviously if I didn't even
know too A long time after that Emma had been hurt,
you know, so you know, you were just pushed him
out of the door, and there was a bit of
a scuffle by the door. And then I remember thinking
(02:32):
at the time, and I don't know why, but I
remember the think time, like, you know, I could just
get the guy down, you know, you know, on the
ground and in a headlock or something like, then I
can sort of just hold him there till the police
get there and they can over. Like I said, I
didn't know he had a knife, you know, and I
just knew that like if I give him a headlock,
I could I could keep him there. And I didn't
I didn't know who's gonna be faking with the police
(02:52):
and there, you know, and and so then I sort
of still asleep. I thought they were yeah, yeah, So
like I thought that would be sort of come out
of the door. I didn't try to sort of hang
off like around his and then I think I sort
of slipped and then as I went onto the ground,
and then he sort of then kicked me twice, maybe
(03:12):
three times, I think at least like twice in her face.
And then I sort of got up and then onto
my knees and then like I sort of looked to
my right where my truck was, and then I think
like one of the guys that maybe like run into
it or something, because it looked like he was like
getting up and then like running away. I think that's
what I saw. And at the time, remember like seeing
(03:35):
Emma standing and she was like sited to you know,
sort of in front of me as such. And then
I see like Cassie at the door and I was like,
I can't get my phone and she's like where is it.
I'm like about half o'clock, you know. It was. It
was a brief conversation like that, and the next thing
I know, I looked at him and she was like this,
you know, she'd moved a bit, but like she was
like in front of me, like laying on the floor
(03:58):
with her back to me, you know, you know, and yeah,
that sort of position and feetal position. I suppose you
and I lay on our side. And it was a
bit of a shop to like see her there because
I was like, you know, second a guy, she was
like standing up but standing in front of me there,
And next thing she's lay on the floor and like,
I think I've got my phone, Casey come back. With
(04:19):
the phone, and you know, she was like, mummy's bleeding,
and I remember, like, what do you mean she just bleeding?
And then it was over. I sort of kneeled over
looked at her left side and you can see the
left side of the ninety, just like a glad and
then that panic sets in. And then but there was
a like diagonally to left of us, there was a
(04:41):
guy like putting some stuff in his car or whatever.
And it was one of those things where you're like,
did you have to see what happened? You know, like
this commotion is are happening? You know, So I'm shouting
out here, trying to whistle and shout him, and he
sort of came over. And then I think I sort
of later learned. I think that like being our neighbor
(05:02):
diagonally right of us, he came down as well. And
I think they may have been on their balcony at
the time or something, so maybe they hurt me shout
help or something. I'm not not really too sure. And
like he was there as well, and then you know,
I was speaking of like Chipple zero.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
At the time and.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Trying to tell them what's happened, and you know, but
then they ask what then questions are, you know, like
name address, you know, what's happened?
Speaker 5 (05:27):
Can you feel or hear any breathing.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
You know, like she's bleeding, I don't know whatever. IM Like,
they were like, is she breathing? I'm like, now, I
don't know, like you know, you're trying to check, and
I'm like, just get here, you know, like and and yeah,
just I suppose in some ways, like I don't know
how long it did take to get there, but it
just felt like forever for them to sort of turn
up really And but then I since found out that,
(05:51):
like I think what happens is that, like, you know,
the I think that the operator person is then maybe
reporting back to the police, and I think they sort
of have to make sure that the paramedics are not
coming to an area where it's potentially still like armed people,
you know. So I think the police have to turn
up and potentially make you know, either come with the
paramedics to make sure they're escorted or whatever, or make
(06:15):
sure there's still no one in the area. And so yeah,
I'm pretty sure I see it. Like I could be wrong,
but I'm pretty sure there was a cop I turned
up and he just went and was like skidded in
position and then started doing like a CPR when Emma
and I was like, you haven't even checked that, you know,
but you're doing it like CPR. But I suppose maybe
they just know that like it's not good or whatever,
(06:36):
you know. So but I think there was like because
like when after I was off the phone to the police,
oh sorry, the triple zero, I suppose I felt like
I needed a phone someone. So I was trying to
phone my friends, like you know, I'm friend Chris. He
(06:57):
lives by the King with his wife, and I tried
phoning him, like you know, four times or something, but
you know, he didn't pick up, and trying to try
his wife Liz as well, but like she didn't pick
up as well, you know, you know, so then yeah,
yeah again. Then like I quickly like scroll from my phone,
and then my friend Dan who lives around the corner,
(07:17):
like I found him, and you know, I remember like
shouting down and down the factors get around here, Garanny now,
you know, and you know, like he's looking up. He
was up and he's like I am running around the
corner to you know, like all these enbulances and police
and everyone, and so.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
He thought he was coming into a house where like
literally everyone who was like dead my dad.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
But then like when he came through the hallway because
Katy and I were sent to go back a bag
that night, so he ran through our room, I was like, scary,
but he was going to open the door to like
I was like, well yeah, and he's like why does
it goes? And then he sees us and just runs
over and us and what happened? And so my friend
(08:06):
like said, like Chris, like he must have realized he
missed some of some calls and afterwards reflected about this,
and he was like, I don't like we know it
all his phone anyway that you know, lots time we
miss each other or whatever. But he was like, it's
running bizarre feeling me phonely like four times on you
know anyway, but especially on box evening. He was like,
I think something's up. So he came around and it
(08:32):
was apparently armed police, and uh, They're like who are you?
And he had just saying and I think he was
allowed to come through to the house, but I think
they told him what had happened to him.
Speaker 5 (08:52):
So Chris Jones rushed to the house on Monday night
after a panicked call from his best night lead just devastating.
Speaker 6 (09:01):
I mean, you see Lee and the girls who are
with us at the moment. I don't think you need
to think too hard how they are.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It's just not sunk in.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Do you know that Emma's pasted or do you or they.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Just because I'm in the paramedics were there. They obviously
had some sort of mobile machine and cocked her up,
and initially she didn't have a pulse, but then you know,
they were doing like CPR. They got to they got
a pulse back and then because I was bleeding and
I'm like arm in my back and to yeah, you
(09:40):
didn't realize no, like it wasn't then because I just
had my underwear, you know, and I didn't realize I
was even bleaning anything. I suppose a gentlemen is pumping.
And I think it was like skun that that said,
like you know, because she stood behind me and she
was like, you're bleeding, and I'm like, am I what?
You know? Then you sort of feel the trickle of
blinding run down my back, and I'm like and then
(10:03):
you start thinking, like, you know, is I'm a dad?
Then you think like I can't die, I can't leave
the kids at the orphane, And there's that sort of
thought goes through your head. So but then the ambulance
people want to get me in the ambulance and were
you know, hitting me up with like morphine and give
me some white fentanyl or something or whatever. And I
(10:24):
don't think that really done a great deal really.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So while Lee is being rushed to hospital, he's been
told that the ambulance that is with Emma would be
following close by and they would meet at the hospital.
At least two teenage girls are at the house. They've
been told to pack a bag by a neighbor because
they wouldn't be staying in the house that night.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
So when I was in the ambulance, I quickly sort
of phoned Emma's brother and because somebody like midday for
them Boxing day, so trying to get out as much
I could about what happened, and then the police waped
my phone, so I had to hand my phone over
and then yeah, I got taken off the hospital saying.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Emma's family is flying in from the UK tonight. Will
North Lake's residents have launched a petition calling for repeat
offenders not to be granted bail and.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
The kids so go with someone to her friends or something.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah, well they went with Dan and Cat around to
their house. Like I said, I saw three houses around
the corner really, so it was funny really, but like
I didn't really In hindsight, I suppose I didn't really
think about them too much because I don't know, there
was just like a lot going on, like with myself,
(11:37):
what with them, I suppose I suppose made me the
back of mind. I knew that they were sort of okay,
they were Dan, I knew, you know, we've known each
other for like years, So I suppose I just knew
that they were in safe fans, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
So Lee's wife Emma died on the way to hospital
in the ambulance after paramedics tried to save a life
on their front lawn. Lee's in a hospital waiting to
find out when you can go and see her. At
this stage, he doesn't know that she hasn't made it.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I don't even know how long I was there. I'm
guessing I was probably there at least a couple of
hours because they were checking my back out and get
me to do like seating scans or whatever. And then
it's funny really because like you know, initially that there
was heaps of heaps of people in the room and
you know, nurses and adopted or whatever, and then then
(12:29):
they all just sort of just seemed to left, and
then it was just then myself and this one other
nurse and I went a bit sort of quiet, and
we were sort of just chatting, and and then this
this guy for another room come through, the older guy
wearing all sort of black. I don't know what he was.
Maybe he was trained to sort tell people those sort
of things. And yeah, they comes through and says, you know,
(12:51):
and see here, and I think, and you know, they
tried doing everything they could, but they were unable to
say that, you know. And then that sort of shock
sets in, I suppose, because you're like, she was live
the last time I see it. I was told she
was going to be following me, Like what do you
mean she hasn't made it, you know. And then yeah,
so I tried getting off the bed, and then you know,
(13:14):
the nurse sort of helped me go through the sort
of cemma. And then I don't even think I spent
a couple of minutes away her. Really I spent a
short amount of time with her, and I spoke to
her and and I was like, right, I've got to
get out of here to get back to the kids,
(13:35):
you know. So I think at that time, I just
like I had some shorts with me, you know, I
got Castie to getting me some shorts before I left.
I did have a T shirt, so that's right, but
I cut that off, so I didn't even have a
T shirt to put on. And you know I've said
this before, but there was a couple of police now
I think from my Brisbane city or something, and I
(13:55):
said to them that, you know, because in my mind,
in Lee's world, I was like, someone's going to bring
me back to North Lakes in a in an ambulance
that you know, I was like, how am I getting hime?
Like I don't have a fair I can't find a
new bit because I would have done that. I would
have done anything to get back. And they sort of
undernared a bit really because because at first, like I thought,
(14:15):
maybe I've just read the situation wrong, like like you
don't want to take me something, Because even the nurse
was like, if these guys don't take it, I'll go
and get my car. And I'll take you, you know,
and eventually they were like, oh, I can come with us,
and then you know, it took me back to North Lakes,
but well, actually they didn't. They took me to a
Redcliffe and then like this this LG then sort of
took my statement and I was like, where are the
kids and they were like, oh, you know, they're going
(14:35):
to come here, and they never turned up on a
police station, which was like really frustrating that, you know.
And I had like a blanket because I was shivering
or whatever, and it just felt like ages we were
doing this like buddy interviewing it, you know, in this statement,
and I just want to get home to the kids
that you know. And then it must have been getting
like five point thirty six sometimes round about that, and
then they were like, oh, you know, we're done.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
And then did the kids know by this stage the
demera had passed no because this scream yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Because the kids had like an iPhone each and she
put like a screenlike on their phones. I think it
was from maybe ten ten thirty till maybe like sort
of six six thirty in the more and they couldn't
use their phones, you know. She didn't want being on
the phones during the night and that sort of stuff.
So yeah, they couldn't be on their phone, so they
they eventually I found out that they because they were
(15:28):
like they set it down a cat. So they then
got taken Chris turned up and he took them with
leaves back to their house. And so yeah, anyway, like
I when I was at the police station, like when
I got my phone and threw my watch, I had
a message come through from my niece in the UK,
just saying that, you know, her, Emma's brother and Emma's
(15:51):
mum were on the way to the airport, but there
was a police guy. I said to this woman doing
the you know statement, She said, I'll take him back
to his house or friends out or whatever and then
gives a call when you're done. So she took me
back to my friend's house and then I sort of
got out of the car, and you know, because I
thought that maybe my friends had said to the kids
of like what happened, but like enough they hadn't. And
(16:15):
I've gotten out of the car. I had a quick
tack to my friend and he said, like kids inside,
oh blah blah blah whatever, And I turned around to
look at the police woman because I thought she was
going to come in with us and she'd just gone,
and I'm like, thanks for that, thanks for the support,
you know, and I just thought that, you know, she
(16:37):
was going to come in and it sounds weird, but
you know, hold my hand, make a coffee, do something,
you know, help me talk to the kids. But there
was no support there, so yeah, so I had to
go in and I didn't really tell the kids too
much about what happened really, and they were like, oh,
I think the scarlet was like, where's mommy because she
(16:58):
was looking behind me, thinking that, you know, she was
going to be with me. But I was like, oh,
you know, we need to talk. And I think I
said she didn't make it, and yeah, kids to a
grind in my arm.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
So that's got to be, I'm guessing, one of the
hardest things you've ever had to do.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, And then, like you, I think for a while,
I didn't really cry. And then even when I was
in the hospital with Emma after then told me what happened,
I don't I may have done for a short time,
but I don't know I even cried then. And then
later on you think, like, what is wrong? With me
(17:43):
not crying. You know, my wife face has been murdered
and I'm not crying, and and even talking to the girls,
you know, like we ended up like in a pile
on the floor and you know, like you're hugging them,
and I don't remember like crying too much then, and
(18:04):
you know you just think like what is ron me?
Like you know, and and then and then yeah, like
reality sets in a bit more and then it's all
over the news because like I said, like it was
like probably six thirty or something, and the kids got
access to their phones and by that time it's all
over like social media.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And a woman has been killed in a horrifying home
invasion in Brisbane's North Forty one year old Emma Lovell
was allegedly stabbed while fighting off her at seventeen year
old boys been charged like murder. Tracked down by please
Dogs to a nearby site early on Tuesday, especially like the.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Like all North Lakes community page, and I think I
was looking on the heir and they were just like
someone that and we used to do ironing for. And
she'd put on the on the page something about like
you know, my friend lives up that road and I've
tried doing it a welfare check, and you know, she
(19:04):
had an I'm just repy.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
So when do you hear that they've arrested the two boys.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I'm not really too sure. To be honest, like I
put it, would have said it was like later on
that day. I think later on that day, like the
police came around and a couple of detectives there, So
I think I would have found out there, But I'm
not extightly too sure, but it was probably the next day.
I'm guessing, you know, a few hours later I was told,
because I do know since then, I have found out
(19:35):
that within you know, three or four hours, they'd got
them at the house around the car from us. You know.
Speaker 7 (19:44):
Unfortunately, police were called to the address late last night.
I confronted with a horrific scene. Paramedics did all they
possibly put but unfortunately the lady passed away and she
had An investigation was commenced and through some very good
investigative skills demonstrated by the detectives and many to locate
(20:06):
four persons who were taken into custody. I can say
at this point in time that two of those people,
a seventeen year old boyfriend Zunia and a seventeen year
old boy from Holland Park will be charged later today
with murder, attempted murder and breaking into.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
It's heartbreaking to think that my best friend took her
last breath because somebody decided they needed what was in
their house. But they'd bought this house for them to
keep their children in, to keep their children safe in,
(20:48):
and just took her last breath and died in what
is such a heroic act trying to keep them keep
her baby safe.
Speaker 7 (21:05):
Message to the community is this is a tub of
sad day that someone's life has been taken in this way.
I still struggle to understand why these types of violet
times occurred, and it's occurred again, and we need to
work together as a community to say no to this
type of violence and also support each other when it
(21:26):
occurs and does something to try and defer or deter
people and command those types of offenses.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Lee was stabbed in the back and kicked a few
times in the face. Emma was stabbed in her side.
It perforated the backside of her heart. All of it
was captured on Lee's CCTV, including the audio that Lee
doesn't ever want to hear again.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
They had already previously I'd heard the audio because the
guy over the rover musk didn't have any footage that
his camera has actually got the audio, so that in
court they played that, but the girls and I left
for that because i'd heard that before and I don't
want to hear that again. But they played the TV
(22:18):
footage from the night is, you know, from all of
us sort of coming out the door and then and
then some of that on outside on the grass, and
my recognition recollection of what happened to what actually did
happen was slightly different. I think I said to you
previously that we sort of came out the door and
I thought I tried getting him on into a headlock,
(22:41):
but that wasn't quite the case. It turns out that
after we came out, I think, like Emma and I
were then fighting with them out on the grass, and
you know, and then you know, something else happened and
then that's when I then tried getting him in the
headlock and fell or whatever. So, yeah, there was that
that evening played that longer than what I remember.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Really, So how was it watching that vision again in court?
And the kids were there too, I guess.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, Like there was a few screens up and I
was sort of watching it, but in also not really
paying that much attention, if that makes sense. I sort
of that watched it, but didn't you know, so it
was pretty hard to watch, you know. And then like
I said, like for to see us all sort of
come out the door and then be on the grass,
(23:32):
and then like I said, like to see what actually
happened from what my memory remembered was yeah, a little
bit sort of shocking really, you know, And yeah, it
was pretty hard to watch, you know. Like I said,
we watched that and then left really so yeah, because
that's when they played the audio, so we left for that.
And then yeah, then the defense goes into the background
of the guy involved, and.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
We can't name these two men that committed the crime
because at the time they were under the age of eighteen.
In fact, one of them was just three months from
turning eighteen. One of the effect has been sentenced in jail.
We'll talk about that sentence and what Lee thinks of
it later in the series. The other is before the courts,
(24:13):
and the news of his sentence may be released as
we're releasing these episodes. But for now, let's talk about
one of the seventeen year old's rap sheets. Before he
murdered Emma. This seventeen year old had never spent any
time in custody, although he had eighty four convictions. His
first crime was committed in May of twenty twenty. At
(24:36):
the start of COVID, he was just fifteen years old.
Sixteen of his crimes involved unlawful entry into premises, two
of those while the families were inside. Eleven offenses were
about breaking into cars or stealing them. Not once was
he placed into custody. Instead, he was sentenced to a
(24:56):
probation order of somewhere between three and nine months. Those
probation orders meant a weekly meeting with the youth Justice
worker for between forty five minutes to an hour. It
was a research based program which targeted offending behavior in
a view to reducing future offending. This teenager was on
(25:18):
a probation order when he murdered Emma. It would seem
for this boy who was soon to be a man,
that didn't work. I'm keen to understand why did it,
(25:40):
what led him to this. In my conversations with Lee,
he also had some clear thoughts on what the punishment
should be for a crime like this, an adult crime.
He also agrees it's complex and knows that it didn't
start from nowhere. There is always a cause. We're going
to explore that in the next few episodes, but first
(26:00):
I want to go back to this seventeen year old boy,
the one that's been charged and sentenced for the murder
of Emma Lovell. It wasn't the first time this offender
had used a knife in a home invasion to stab someone.
In twenty twenty, when he was just fifteen turning sixteen,
he stabbed someone else.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
Well, the next thing in my mind was looking down
the end of the bed and then seeing the figure
of a person at the end of the bed. I
don't think there was a lot of thought from this
point onwards.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
I started to move and went out.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
Of the bedroom, and then I jump up and in
a very loud I feel it was aggressive now telling
someone to get the f out of my house, and
I started chasing this person.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
You'll hear more from Aaron and his wife Christine in
the next episode of Who's to Blame.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
M
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