America, with Jimmy Jam & intro by John Stamos

Phil & David Zoom on down that "Ventura Highway" on a "Horse With No Name" for a fascinating career-spanning conversation with Gerry Beckley & Dewey Bunnel of the beloved group America. Previous "Lunch" guest Jimmy Jam -- a lifelong America fan himself -- joins for the conversation, and John Stamos offers a loving episode introduction. For Record Store Day, April 20th, America is finally releasing "Live From The Hollywood Bowl 1975" with George Martin conducting The Symphony Orchestra. For more about America, go to https://www.venturahighway.com. To learn more about building community through food and "Somebody Feed the People," visit the Philanthropy page at philrosenthalworld.com.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
On this episode of a very specialNaked Lunch, the iconic, the legendary
band America. This is John Stanlinson. It's an honor to introduce my two
buddies, Jerry Beckley and Dewey Banell. And boys, just because the show
is called Naked Lunch doesn't mean youget to get naked. Phil and David
do. And it's like looking intothe sun if the sun was a big
white ass. Have fun. Boys, Let's build the beans, chew the

(00:34):
fat food for thought. Joke's ontap, talking with our mouthsfull, having
fun, the bees, the cakeand humble pie, serving up slaze love.
Leave the dressing on the side.It's Naked Lunch clothing optional. The

(00:57):
first thing on that was when theteam was hot, the ground was dry,
the air was sound, the deserton the horse grown name felt good
to be the ra in the desert. Do we We're trying to make this

(01:23):
like this is your life, Americabecause we are so thrilled to have you
and Jimmy and I have literally spentuh hours talking about the greatness of America
like before we in fact, Ihave a very strong yes, well you
in particular, you know you andJerry and I remember during the pandemic,

(01:48):
we filmed a Grammy special and welike we were in masks. It was
like one of the first things beingfilmed, and we were literally were sitting
talking about America and Doobie Brothers andhow we both learned. I just we
both grew up loving Those were liketwo of the all time favorites. So
yeah, that genre, that generationwhatever we jumped in on. I guess

(02:12):
the kind of singer songwriter movement,that's what we aspired to. You know,
we always wanted to be part ofthat gang. We were influenced by
the sixties artists of writers and singers, Buffalo's Springfield Birds, you name it,
right, that old Jony, NeilYoung, I'm the one that got
labeled and Neil Young want to Be. I always felt that Neil Young was

(02:38):
a dewey wanna be. I felthe ripped you off. Oh right,
Yeah, it still happens that peoplethink that Horse with No Name in particular,
of course, was a Neil Youngsong, because that was right in
the hotbed of the times. AndI was certainly, you know, influenced
to great degree by I loved hissolo albums right from the very first solo

(03:00):
album on. There was just somany great songs there is. Oh my
god, we've got a complete bandhere. We did. Can you hear
a couple of people who can't saywell, Hello, oh Cherry, Hello,
Hello? Come in? Have youguys got me? Can you hear
me? We can. We're soexcited to have everyone here. And we

(03:21):
have a special for the first time, a sort of co host guest superstar
legend, Jimmy jam because he andI have spent so many hours talking about
America. He's joining us for atleast part of this conversation until we lose
him. Jimmy jam is in thehouse. Hey, Jimmy, how are
you? I'm great, Jerry,how are you? Man? I don't

(03:42):
know if you remember we were ona flight. I think the last time
I saw you, and we wereon a flight discussing, discussing someone to
call my lover. Uh, youknow, so literally before we started.
I was talking to David before andI said, I gotta ask am I
remembering this story the way that itactually happened? I said, I got
to make sure. I asked Jerry, did I dream this story or did

(04:03):
this actually happen? But yes,we were on a flight. I remember
that I got on the flight.You said, hey, are you Jimmy
Jam And I said yeah, andhe said I'm Jerry. He said,
you built me my pool? Isthat what you said? You know that?
That's that's the difference. That's true. That's exactly I had a I
had a particular legal incident that wassettled out of court, so I'm not

(04:27):
allowed to discuss with you or anybodythe details. But I but I am
allowed to say that I installed theJanet Jackson Memorial swimming pool. But I
heard when I heard you were goingto be here, Jimmy Jam, I
figured I might as well remind youof someone to call my lover. Wait
a minute, is it in there? Is it showing? Yeah? And
do you're showing a platinum Janet Jacksonrecord D the Absolute Truth, jim Platinum

(04:51):
double budd Yes, and yeah youcan see double. But Jimmy, isn't
it fair to say that whatever benefitfinancial that America saw from you, it
is repaying the debt of how muchthey influenced you me? And I'm going
to say, Phil, I'm goingto say everyone, Yes, what is

(05:12):
it about the seventies? Can youarticulate why that it was like the tuition
the seventies. I was saying,it's it's like, it's like the tuition.
It's like I feel like I paidtuition to go to the America School
of Major seventh Chords, and Igraduated, and I and and there's not

(05:35):
the music is so influential on me, and and the way I write,
the way I arrange harmonies, justall of that really is the School of
America for me. So, guysthat I want to ask when we first
heard, when we first I don'tknow if it's when we first met Lionel,
but I met Lionel many many yearsago, and he said to me

(05:56):
that he used to get so muchcrap for carrying around our album. I
think he was in Alabama. Wasapology, and he said, I can't
tell you the crap I used toget for character carrying that album around.
Sorry, sorry anyway, Always goodto hear, always good to hear.
I want to ask guilty pleasures.I want to ask, what is it,
in your opinion that made the seventiesthe kind of high point of songwriter

(06:24):
singers? Can I take that onefirst? Please? Well, you know
this is a very long arc thatyou're discussing, and that could go on
for a variety of shows. Butif we focus on the late sixties early
seventies, you have now with radioand everybody can immediately dial in their favorite

(06:44):
and go buy albums and things.You have this immense source of talent that
wasn't just Beatles and Brian Wilson andstuff. It started. It became really
incredibly gifted songwriters like Burt Bacharack andJimmy Webb and stuff. So all of
this was getting thrown into the pileof all of us trying to learn tunes

(07:06):
and composition and stuff, so thatwell just became frankly bottomless, and it
was just a fantastic time for creativity. And I think we're all, as
Jimmy was alluding to, we're allthe beneficiaries of that because we grew up
in that era and as kids nowadaysdon't, although I can say some of
my younger kids they go back tothat stuff because as we all know,

(07:29):
you know that great line, isit just me or was music better in
those days? Yes? Well,I feel like when you come of age
that whatever music or food or TVor movies that becomes your favorite, your
defining moment exactly. David and Ialways talk about how I don't think it's
just that there was something in thewater in the seventies that the TV movies,

(07:56):
music, the culture just seemed rich. Sure, am I biased?
You're true if you think about it. Nowadays, the sources of input are
so overwhelming, which is why youhave kids scrolling through and jumping from their
TikTok account to their Instagram and stuff. Back then, it was a little
bit more limited. I remember whenTVs went from thirteen channels to two hundred

(08:20):
and fifty six or whatever it was, right, we were all sharing in
that much more defined. So Ithink it had a deeper and deeper impact,
you know, if that's what you'realluding to. Absolutely, But you
guys you were staples came from,I mean the influences that you heard from,
Like they said, you know,it just makes it. You know,
you were growing up in an erawhere technology you still had to be

(08:43):
a band, right. You couldn'tdo everything yourself yet, so you had
to have camaraderie, you had tolearn collaboration, you know, all of
those things, and so it wasa little bit different and you had to
learn how to actually play an instrumentand actually perform. It wasn't just plugging
something into a a computer and thosetypes of things. So I think some
of it is just the you know, to use a food analogy, it

(09:07):
would be like the fresh ingredients rightwhen you get those fresh ingredients and you
make whatever it is you cook asopposed to a frozen something or a microwave
something. Sure. Sure back tothe ten thousand hours, you know,
the Malcolm Gladwell, I would liketo think Jimmy dou I know, certainly
Dewey and I did our ten thousandhours is we all would shed and tried
to figure out the latest songs ofthe week and stuff. I think though,

(09:30):
as far as inspiration from those thatera, it's all about what your
age, this young spongemind evotions comingalive when you're in your teens, and
those songs suddenly become imprinted and theystay with you forever. I think every
generation probably can say that, yes, and it is a window of inspiration.

(09:54):
I mean the writing part. Wereally try to live up to the
writers we admired and the recordings weheard and try to how did they get
that sound? Of course, whenwe ultimately ended up with George Martin as
our producer. This was later inthe mid seventies. We asked him,
how did you do this? Howdid you do that? Of course those
were innovative times, but it wassnowballing at a rapid rate by that point.

(10:20):
And of course once the digital agecomes in, we saw Dewey and
I used to listen to all thelatest releases and headphones. We'd go over
to my house and we put headphoneson, and I remember as early as
sixty eight sixty nine kind of tryingto analyze Roy Howie's reverbs on the drums
of Simon and Garfunkel or something.I mean, it was we were that
deep into it, you know,even back then we weren't out of high

(10:43):
school yet. How did they dothat? Yeah, you got to know
John Stamos, was it during hisyour because you have had a life with
the Beach Boys, being influenced byBrian Wilson and then and the band,
and then touring with them and workingwith them. But how did you meet
John along the way? Well,John was on tour with the Boys.
I guess mid eighties. You'd haveto go to his I'm not sure exactly

(11:07):
when he started with them, buthe was you know, guesting and drumming
and stuff, and so we spentwe spent countless summers right through out with
those guys, hundreds of shows,and it was just such a trip for
us because not only was John outthere, lovely guy and got to know
him and his circle of friends,but during that time Kocomo had blown up,

(11:31):
and so they were at the peak. They were doing stadium shows,
they were doing doubles, so youwere playing two different states in one day.
I mean, it was really anunbelievable highlight for Dewey and I as
well. And as we'd met theboys and they were huge influences. We
already talked about that harmonies, themelodies, you know, Brian's writing,

(11:52):
but we met him in like seventyone when we were just starting out in
England and they were on tour,so and we met you know, Carl,
and Mike was doing I think Miketried to inaugurate us into one of
his TM things, which we sortof took a liking to for the time.

(12:13):
I never really followed Mike's path allthat way, but they were great
people though. They really embraced us, and Dennis was still alive and he
was Dennis and it was a greatthing for us to physically get to know
these guys. And then when webroke and we were just in the process
of breaking because we did a showin Holland, I remember, and the

(12:35):
boys were over on that as partof their European tour. But when we
got back to the States almost immediately, as Jerry pointed out, and you
guys have mentioned, we were openingfor the Beach Boys, you know,
summer after summer, the beach Balls, the girls, the bikinis, all
that music, which we had notbeen exposed to because we'd been teenagers in

(12:56):
England really from the time we wereabout fourteen or fifteen until we came back
to the US in seventy two withhis big hit record and we had a
career, so we hadn't experienced itphysically. The whole scene in California was
new to us. I'd lived thereas a kid briefly with my dad in
the Air Force. Jerry and Iare both Air Force and Dan's dad was

(13:18):
too. That's how the trio startedin England to begin with. But you
know, it was like thrown inthe deep end, it really was,
and it wasn't just the Beach Boys. We ended up with David Geffen's management
company and there we were with thoseother heroes, you know, CSN and
Joni Mitchell and Neil Young in thereand the Eagles were just starting. I
mean, it was really an unbelievablyspectacular time to look back on. I'm

(13:45):
in Sydney. I don't know ifI announced that I'm in Australia. And
we a couple of shows last weekat the Opera House and one of them
was Graham Nash, the other wasWilco. But I had a lovely day
evening with Graham and he was sayingthat he felt that particular era for us
that we were all kind of inwas would be like kind of Vienna,
you know how we think back aboutVienna or Paris in the twenties or something.
That it was an incredibly vital,just unbelievable stuff being done all across

(14:11):
the arts, just in the filmsand music. I did want to ask
just in that we're talking about touringwith the boys. We then started working
recording with them. They were singingon our records. I think we was
on some of that. I wassinging on some of theirs. I had
an interview once with I think it'scalled Endless Summer Quarterly. They said,
what was it like singing on saleon Sailor And I said, I don't

(14:33):
think I'm on that, and theysaid, oh, yeah, you are.
We have the track sheet right.Here were some late night sessions in
those days. Yeah, it's prettycool about you, sister. I just

(15:00):
gave out gz my eyes. Thatis now I want to point out for

(15:22):
Jimmy jam We'll especially appreciate this.You talk about the seventies, Phil and
I again in film for sure,in music, absolute favorite. Here's a
proof of it. This is theGrammy Awards nineteen seventy three Best New Artist.
Here was the competition. The nomineesare the Eagles, John Prime,

(15:43):
Harry Chapin, Loggins and Messina andAmerica. America wins awesome. And you
know who's not there, America.You sound surprised. You sound surprised.
Well, by the way, Yeah, Jimmy and I spent a lot of
time. I'm trying to making sureall the nominees are there. It's like
about that list, Yes, that'sabout It's a pretty good group. Heck

(16:06):
yeah, by the way, itwas we won Best New Artists of nineteen
seventy two, but they had theawards were in seventy three. People say
that he won seventy three. Wellit was actually for our worthy use seventy
two. Yeah, but yeah,that was pretty spectacular. We were in
New Orleans. We watched it onTV after a show or something. We
didn't we didn't plan to come outthere, and specifically that night we thought

(16:29):
logs of Messina were on performing andwe figured out, hell, they'll probably
get it. Usually if they're actuallyat the event performing, they get the
award. But I mean, that'strue, Davidly on top of our Well,
no, that is the suspicion thatwe know, and we don't know.
That's the proof of it, youknow. I don't think that was
that's even before Ken Eerlok, ourfriend was probably producing it. But it

(16:49):
was in Nashville, by the way, Yes, that was one of the
few years in Nashville. I thinkthat's the same year like Ringo and Harry
Nielsen presented together, and I think, uh, it was a wild,
a wild ceremony, uh or anyanything with those two would have been wild.
Of course, especially I love itbecause nobody was more shocked than us.
And then because we weren't there,you know, they assigned people to

(17:11):
come out and take the award onyour behalf. So right away is that
accepting the award for America is DustySpringfield? Far out our Grammy, Jimmy,
how many Grammys do you have?Come on? I have? I
have five? There you go.We used we used to gig with Christopher

(17:32):
Cross a lot, and I wouldcome out on stage and I'd say,
you know, tonight, everybody,between the two of us, we have
six Grammys that we have one ChristopherCross, I think it was more than
that, Jared, I think Christopheror something. Yeah, and also an
Oscar. Yeah. I want toask. I want. I want to

(17:55):
tell you, guys, because Imet you exactly once at the release party
in La for Here and Now,which is a two thousand and seven album,
I believe, and my favorite Americaalbum, not bar none. I
think it's my absolute favorite. ButI've never gotten to tell you how much

(18:15):
I owe you because I've never doneanything with it like Jimmy jam but you
were absolutely crucial in my music educationand probably I wouldn't know Jimmy Jamm and
have worked with him on the Grammysfor these last twenty years without you,
you were you don't you did notknow this. You were at my ber
mitzvah at the table I had aposter of my heroes. I've met all

(18:36):
my heroes except John Lennon, whowere at my bar mitzvah table. And
you were a part of my weddingbecause back when I was nervous before I
walked down the aisle, I playedYoung Moon, my favorite America song,
which I think you co wrote.It's I think it was. I think,
yeah, Jerry, you co wrotethat. Yeah, I brought that

(18:59):
to the table. We do.We do a lot of collaborating, Jerry
and I over this. In thebeginning, it was like one guy wrote
a song, Dan wrote his Jerry. But as Jerry and I became this
duo and moved on, we would, you know, collaborate on various things
like that, like a young Manin the Heaven, Mother to the Stars.

(19:22):
Young got us to that elevation,to the place high above the combination
You me, I like that songtoo. We never really did it live
much and and it did didn't doas well. It's really hard to follow

(19:45):
the success that we had of theseventies, Phil, do you know that
one of the as America fanatics,Jimmy and I would know that there were
a series of records they named withthe beginning of the letter H. Do
you know this? I didn't knowthat. You know, he told us
a story of was that superstition?Was it just good luck? And why

(20:06):
did you never do a record calledHebrew? Because it would have been a
lot to film. Jimmy, itwas just to answer to that one,
Jared and I. It narrowed thefield. It happened accidentally. The first
album was just called America, butHorselelwe name was slapped on the covers after
the initial covers, so that waskind of an age title. Then Homecoming
was us coming back to the US. That was the second album from England.

(20:30):
The third album was hat Trick anotherH you know, three in a
row thing, and then it wason the fourth album that we went back
to England and we thought, youknow how the British phrase for like a
vacation as a holiday, we kindof called it holiday lumped and we're back
in England on a holiday and it'san H. But from then on we

(20:52):
we definitely you know, conspired tofind an h title until we got tired
of that too after a while.I think the last one was called Silent
Letter, which could be an age. Your music has been so iconic,
especially those first couple of albums thatI think America was one of the first
albums I ever had, And notonly was the music iconic, but the

(21:15):
cover. Can you talk about thatparticular cover the first the first cover was
shot. We were signed to Warnersin the UK. We were living in
the UK. Warners all of themajor labels had offices in London, so
we're being in London apart from NewYork and LA you were really in the
third hub of the entire business.And the Warners had their offices at sixty

(21:37):
nine New Oxford Street. They had, you know, they were really riding
high. A lot of their actswere immensely world successes. So they did
up the office and with some youngdesign team and one of the rooms had
a huge mural of a CPUs shotof Unfortunately reality is the shot is from
the Trail of Tears, which isthe one of the final you know,

(22:00):
surrenders of one of the major Indiantroden Native American tribes, right, and
so that was picked as a muralon the wall, and we were just
in that room. It was kindof one of the social rooms for coffees.
I mean we were sitting against thewall. So when that shot was
chosen for the cover, there's thethree of us and then there's these Indians,

(22:22):
you know, looking kind of sittingbehind us. If you were to
pan out and see the whole thing, they're surrounded by Union soldiers. Oh
stuff. So it's unfortunately I'm muchdarker. That's a story. But it
certainly made a love striking image,you know, for a cop it's a
beautiful cover. But what a differentcover that would, right, And speaking
of covers, I don't know ifyou could probably see Phil do you realize

(22:45):
do you know? I know,I know that probably everyone else we know.
Do you know who did this illustrationon their their hit greatest hits?
America's greatest hits history? This isthe great which I recommend to I recommend
to everyone as as a great playto start with America. You'll be shocked
at how many songs you know sowell. It's such a it's what a

(23:07):
what a collection of songs you've beenable to produce over the years. It's
just it's beautiful. I have noidea who drew this? Okay, Phil,
Phil? Yeah? Phil? Yourname Phil? Oh? His name
is Phil. I'm gonna guess Phil. And their manager, uh was a

(23:30):
guy named John John Hartman, notthe Phil Hartman, Yes, the Phil
Hartmon from sn L. Phil Harmon. Yeah, Well there's another connection with
you guys and sn L that Iwanted to ask you about. You know
what, that's going to be right, and now I'm drawing a black on

(23:52):
that. But yes, Phil Hardold Phil, Wait a minute, you
know this the famous sketch? Areyou talking about? The Californians? Absolutely?
And he when we got to knowFred, he right away said to
us that his exact in fact,he introduced me to the musical director,
and he said his instruction was knockthis off because they couldn't afford Hey,

(24:15):
ah, that's funny. For theLick Yes and the Californians. The whole
intro outro bit is a knockoff ofthe Venture Highway. But now you know,
I played it for my young cousintoday, who I wanted to introduce
to your music or remind him thathe knows these songs even though he's a
kid. And I said, youever see the SNL sketch the Californians.

(24:37):
Yeah, well, this is theAmerica, you know, this is Listen
to this and it comes on andyou now get an automatic laugh. First
licks of the song come on andthen it becomes this gorgeous, beautiful anthem
to California. It's just great.It's just great, but I I love

(25:00):
it. There was another skit inthe earlier seventies with Yellow Murray doing his
Loungejack guy. Yes, oh yes, that's right, that's right on that,
which was funny too. And Jimmy, we have a story when these
things come up, and this oneinvolves Venture or two. And it was
I think a call that we gotabout a European TV ad. I think

(25:22):
it might have been Feed or something, but they were going to use Venture
in the in the for the backgroundmusic. And so my son, who
was only about eight at the time, was listening to this conversation and hearing
only the half of it of metalking about that'd be great. And so
when I hung up, he says, what what was that about? And
I said, well, that's aEuropeank car coupany going to use Venture for

(25:44):
for their ads. And he thoughtabout it for a second, and he
went, Hello Ferrari, Hello Ferraribecame our for not a lot in it.
By the way, that could beyour next album with an h it
was considered, But you know thatthe actual joke of the term is it

(26:04):
means really not a hell of alot, hell not a lot of it.
So I would hate the jinx anyalbum with a subtext like that.
Well, you talk about Ventura Highwayand Jimmy, have you ever thought You're
probably the closest I can ask thefact that Purple Rain is a lyric in
Ventura Highway. I know that Princeloved Joni Mitchell. Do you think that

(26:32):
Prince might have gotten that because Ihaving been I did once pitch him a
joke that the punchline was purple Rainfor an award show, and he goes,
very funny. I'm not going totell that joke, but I wonder
do you have any sense, ifany chance, Prince could have heard borrowed
the phrase purple Rain was not afalling star waiting for the Sorry Boy?

(27:11):
But I'm a new Biber. That'sa great question. I'm I'm not really
sure, but I do know hewas a fan of the group, and
most likely the song so very Imean very much could have been. But

(27:32):
I really don't know that that's enoughright there. That's great to hear.
Well, I'll tell you he was. It's interesting because when people think about
Prince, they think about, youknow, obviously there's a I think there's
a bit of Sligne of the FamilyStone, a bit of James Brown,
a bit of a lot of JimmyHendricks. I think there's a lot of
that people, But what they don'treally think about was, for him,

(27:53):
a lot of it was Fleetwood Mac. He was a huge Fleetwood Mac fan.
Love his guitar playing. He lovedSantana, Carlos Santana, He loved
a lot of the Bay Area groups, Twer Power and groups like that.
But he loved Joni Mitchell. Heloved that seventies Like we talked about earlier,
that seventies music. He loved that. I mean, and we were

(28:15):
we grew up literally, we wereexactly a year apart, you know,
birthday wise or year wise, andso I think we grew up with the
same influences, and so I knowhe's he had to be a fan.
I Raspberry Beret, probably some Beatlestuff, in there too, that whole
era. Yeah, yeah, itwas just the way he mixed his influences

(28:37):
together so uniquely. But also hewas just a tremendous musician. And going
back to what once again when wetalked about those fresh ingredients. He was
a great musician. He was agreat bass player, great guitar player,
great drummer, great keyboard player.But he was able to mix all of
those influences together and make some reallyyou know all those artists that you just
mentioned, you know, Hendricks andJames Brown and sly Stone and yeah,

(29:00):
he would really got got the greatelements of all that stuff. Rider performer,
she real thing she likes and bigspears, break ary thing Zone.

(29:37):
George Martin, who you guys havea record release day release of an album?
Not an album? It was alive uh performance at the Hollywood Bowl
nineteen seventy five where he conducted youuh that? How has that not been
released? Until I can tell youwe knew about these tapes. This was

(30:03):
a lovely one off night at theBowl where George was conducting the La Philharmonic,
And it was such a sweet spotfor us because Dan was still in
the band. We were a triobut it was after Hearts, so it
included the hits Sister, Golden Hairand Daisy Jane. So it just couldn't
have been a better spot. Andwe just obviously a lot of charts and

(30:25):
a lot of planning and everything,and we had a fantastic evening which we
recorded. We had the record plantmobile unit there and Jeff Emrick I think,
was you know, engineering, butthere were so many technical glitches and
noise on tapes and you know,the entire left side of the strings.
There's just too many issues that whenwe reviewed the tapes, I think we're
just going to have to count thatas a great evening, but it's not

(30:47):
going to be an album. Nowfast forward forty years, forty five years,
we now we as they say,we have the technology so we could
get rid of a lot of thisnoise and stuff. And I can tell
you one of the things was infull disclosure some of the guitars. I
was amazed when you go back andlisten to these live shows, you play

(31:08):
a song for three minutes and thenyou go and irony and like four minutes
tuning up in between each song.There was no such thing as guitar text
then Now you add it to someguy comes back perfectly tune. Not so
in the mid seventies. So therewas a lot of stuff like that,
and you know, we had theability to go in and fix a few

(31:29):
things that were just here repairable.So I was sitting here in my Sydney
studio, you know, a yearor so ago, replaying I don't want
to tell you what, but havingto replay an acoustic guitar part or two
just to clean up things that werejust this would be a lot better if
I do this. So anyway,and result double vinyl release on Record Shop
Day four twenty on. Some soundsright and really and it just we do

(31:55):
and I are so it sounds fantastic. I can't prop shot. I was
really shocked how well that sounded,because I do remember us sitting down after
back at seventy five and listening tothe tapes between tours. We used to
do two and three months tours andcome home for a month. It was
just you know, on the gogo go and listening to it and thinking
this is crappy. We can't putthat out. And I forgot about it,

(32:17):
and it wasn't until our dear friendJeff Larson who who has become kind
of our archivist and has really gonethrough tapes and hard drives and discs and
cassettes, you know, with afine toothed comb. And he didn't he
spot it and say, hey,these tapes from this Hollywood Bowl, I

(32:37):
can really do something with these,I think. Anyway, Then when I
heard that after this work was done, I couldn't believe how great it really
sounds. And it is the onlylive recording of the trio, you know,
a professional live recording of the trioand a special night the Hollywood Bowl
and George Martin conducting. So it'sa special project. The orchestra, beautiful
Orchestra with George Martin conduct He wasactually not the opening act was the first

(33:00):
part of the evening. He conductedhis own performance of something called Beatles to
Bond and Bach and it was reallylovely. But I happened to know some
of we'd done some symphony dates.I knew some of the players, but
I knew the harpist, a ladynamed Gail. And so for the big
finale there was a huge fireworks overthe arc of the bowl for the final
number, and they knew that somesparks would be coming down, and they

(33:21):
had arranged an umbrella for a guyto come out and hold an umbrella over
George in case the wind blew.Some of these sparks play and it would
be like my Greek, you know, with this guy's sick, that'd be
cool if that, you know,we don't want anything to happen, So
that had been arranged. So I'msaying that we were not unaware that there
might be some sparks. But wefinish and do an eye and Dan of
course, are looking forward and it'sa big finale to this incredible show,

(33:45):
seventy piece orchestra crashing away, andwe go off stage and everybody's, you
know, kind of yelling with thishigh adrenaline that you do after a show
and stuff. And I see Gailand I go, Gail, God,
wasn't that great? And she looksat me and she goes, are you
out of your Mind's on fire?I ran off. Apparently the sparks caught
her dress on fire. He ranoff in flames. While that's a hot

(34:08):
gig, very hot, Jake,Phil and I went to I invited Phil
and Monica, his wife, tocome with me. When when George and
his son played. They debuted inthe Capital studios Love when they were you
know what they were before it cameout, and I remember, yes,

(34:29):
sorry Giles, and I think yousaid to me something like George Martin is
the most elegant man, and youknow you couldn't You've met everyone and you
were in awe like I'm sure youagree. The gentleman's gentleman, right,
couldn't script He was like Prince Philipcombined with Spike Milligan unbelievable sense of humor.

(34:52):
He was so funny and we wouldhave There was a time in in
Well Stories, but we were inthe Air studios in London and we wanted
some traffic noise. We wanted somecars horns and things, and so he
hung a big mic out the windowand you know, with a long cable

(35:12):
and everything to kind of get andit was London. It was a bit
too polite, and he said,I'll fix this, and he went downstairs
and he got in his car andhe went some rugbig rolls for us.
I mean he pulled it right acrossRegent Street or something, you know,
to block the traffic so that everybodywould start honking like that. Okay,
that guy, what does a producerdo, Well, I guess that's one
of the and Jimmy as a producer, Well, how do you like?

(35:37):
You know we have since we haveone of the great producers of all time
here, what George Martin? Whatdo you think was his genius? From
your perspective, Well, I learneda lot watching the Beatles documentaries. I'm
sure a lot of people did,but to me it was just you know,
for me, record production is it'sa series of problem solving. Problem

(35:59):
solving, so that's the big partof it, but also psychology wise and
psychiatry wise, if you will,the studio always has to be the safe
space for everybody. So no matterwhat's happening outside, whether you're having a
bad day or something's going on inyour family or whatever, that is,
when you come to the studio,it's got to be that safe space.
And to me, he created thatatmosphere where even if they were arguing with

(36:21):
each other, at least they weretogether arguing with each other. And then
to me, he took that energyand organized it in a really great way
where everybody felt safe. If itwas a bad idea, good idea,
it didn't really matter. And soI just think the psychology. We always
talk about the sounds and the experimentationand all of that, and that's one
half of it. But I think, and you guys, because you worked

(36:43):
with him, obviously, but Ijust feel like he made the studio such
a safe space. That's where peoplecould be creative, come up with great
ideas, and a lot of timeswhen we talk about record production, nobody
really talks about that side of it. So I use the word focus it.
You know, obviously, this guywas an amazing arranger, which,
as you know, Jimmy, isnot always the case you bring in an

(37:05):
arranger. We need some strings onthis. We're going to use Vince Mendoza
or whoever you're going to need somebodyLovely. George was the arranger, So
you had the same guy that wasthe kind of steering the ship, that
was also the arranger. And Ican tell you how much focus he brings
because he asked us would we mindcoming to London to do this first album

(37:25):
it was our fourth record, theHoliday Record, and we said, of
course we'd do. We in ourhalf English, we'd love to come to
London. We went to Air Studiosand he said to us verbatim, he
says, well, lads, I'veheld two months. He says. Now,
I'm not saying we should be donein two months, but let's just
see how we go. But I'veheld two months and do and I and
Dan we're so concerned with, youknow, not messing around. Let's make

(37:46):
sure that you don't waste this guy'stime. We did the entire album Holiday
Album in thirteen days, and whenwe were done, he said, well,
lads, he said, this hasbeen amazing. He says, nothing
like this could possibly succeed. Nothingthat easy. And I think Man and

(38:07):
Lonely People, Yeah, that's twobig hits on that one. But I
think he brought a little more structure. At that point, we kind of
either co produced or produced by ourselvesthe first three albums and that third album,
Hat Trick. We were really wastinga lot of time and money,
and it was a little not realizingit because we were going to We'd be
in that control room and go,look, I'm gonna go out there and

(38:28):
play this this triangle a little bit. Let's see what that? How's that?
How's that? You know? Wewere just playing stuff and wasting time
and staying up all night and canwe play that back again, you know,
just really lucy goosey. So rightaway he had a structure. I
went, oh, this is great. He starts at a certain time,
he ends at another time, hetakes a break in the middle for lunch,

(38:49):
or we'd call it what the eggand bacon take just one more time
and we'll have the egg and baconsandwich afterwards. So push you to a
degree. I want to be amusician studio, and he would. He
had the good set of human buthe was still he still kept us on
track and there was no messing aroundbecause he wanted to go home too.

(39:13):
And it was a great experience.And you had mentioned I'm hoping when you
do when you do the another episodewith Jimmy, because we're talking about great
producers and stuff, that I getto guess and ask him questions about the
Human League and stuff. You know, some of my favorite records of all
time. So but I don't wantto like dig us down at you know,

(39:34):
you asked by the way Human Heknows that Jimmy knows it's one of
my favorite songs of all time,and I don't. I don't think you
had an easy time with the HumanLeague, did you Jimmy not story.
I don't know they maybe they didn'thave an easy time with us. I
don't really know which side of itit's on, but no, it was.
It was challenging. We would saythat and that's just the hair.

(39:55):
But there was a lot of therewas a lot of culture shock, we'll
put it like that, because obviouslythey were coming not from London, England,
but from Sheffield, England, sosmall town coming to the winter in
Minneapolis, which is jarring for anybody. And then there was always that little
bit of injury. That probably themost interesting part of it is because Phil,
the elite singer was seeing I thinkit was Joanne was like his girlfriend,

(40:17):
one of the girls in the group. And so I remember one time,
a matter of fact, on thesong Human, she didn't like we
had brought in a background singer tosing, and she didn't like the background
singer. She was like, Idon't like that other girl on the track.
Right, And so the next dayPhil walks into the studio and he
looks at military and he just goes, I just have to say, we
don't like that other girl on thetrack. And we looked at him and

(40:38):
we said what and he says,I just have to say, we don't
like that other girl on the track, and we kind of looked at each
other and we said, oh,you just have to say. I have
to say you don't like that,and he said, yes, I just
have to say and we said okay, cool. So we we got what
it was. I mean, youknow, it wasn't staying at the studio
whatever it was that that discussion wasgoing to the whole hotel or wherever you

(41:00):
know afterwards. But that's why Isay the psychology. So Terry was the
one that came up with a brilliantidea which was the spoken part where at
the end she goes, while wewere apart, I was human too,
so she got a chance to beon the record I have for a moment
and then everybody was okay with it, and you know the rest of it,
well you you proved something with thatbecause you took you know, this

(41:21):
white guy from Sheffield, come on, try I made the most so soulful
track, incredible loop and just anywayI could, I could go on.
But by the way, I'm sittingand I just I just have to say,
because I'm literally sitting at A andM Records right now, which is
now in Hinson Studio A and MRecords. Back in the day, and

(41:43):
the guy that actually arranged for usto work with Human League was a guy
John McClain, who now is oneof the executors of the of the Jackson
Estate and Michael Jackson Estate. Butwhat was funny about it was I remember
he called us one day and hesaid, hey, do you like Human
League And we said, yeah,we love him. He said, so
they're making a record, and weasked what kind of record they were making,
and they said they want to makea Jam and Lewis record, or

(42:05):
a record that sounds like Jam andLewis. And John McClean said, well,
let's just hire him to do it. And as he called us,
And that's how that that whole thinghappened. That's what I wondered, Yeah,
how did that? Yeah, No, that's how it happened. He
literally called him. He said,well, if you want to make a
Jam of Louise record, let's justget Jam and Lewis to do it.
And we had just done I thinkwe've just done control as a matter of
fact, drama, similar audio,similar sound, Yeah, yeah, well

(42:27):
definitely the d definitely those drums forsure, but your your mode whatever.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, thatwas signature for sure. But Jimmy,
when you talk about jam and Lewisand the fact is the power of two
people who can work together and getalong, you often say I've worked with
you both. You know, I'veworked with you more, but seeing you

(42:49):
together? What is it? Howyou always say you've had disagreements but never
arguments or something like that. Youalways say, but the secret of you
mentioned Dan peak and it if peopledon't know, you know, America was
a trio, three part harmony trioand then at the peak of everything a
for reasons that you can tell mewhat you want, he walked away.

(43:14):
I think he had a religious sortof crisis, maybe other kind of crisis.
But the amazing thing is from thatmoment on America, you two guys
re established the power of America.I believe you have never missed a year
of touring, maybe other than thepandemic. You know, you've never broken
up. You've made records that youknow again, I think your best record

(43:37):
is this Sentich. My two favoritealbums would be Holiday and here and Now.
So that's you know that the spanof whatever thirty five, no,
probably forty years, just getting upto speed. We're just getting but how
do how do how has the howdid the dynamic of becoming two changed the

(43:58):
group? And how have you managedto get along like Jimmy and Terry have
for decade after decade. That's athat's a good subject. Yeah, I'll
start the secret. A great partnershipis a great partner and I think do
you would agree, But I've hadthe greatest partner the whole time, from
the very get go. If youconsider the Dewey, the guy that gave

(44:20):
us some of these most iconic songsof our generation, there's absolutely no arguing
with any of that. But havingsaid that, you know, people can
be an ass. You know,asked Phil about working with me? Everybody
not an iota of that. Wejust the only clear dynamic when you go
from three people, and we wereall very involved in the it was a

(44:44):
three legged stool. You can't havea two legged stool, you know,
the stool will fall over. SoDo and I were very aware of that
dynamic, and with Dan's departure itturned into a complete just a partnership,
not a three person partnership. Itwas a partnership where we basically said,
whoever feels more strongly about any particularwins And it was never a problem.

(45:05):
I think do would agree to toeif everything was oh really okay? No,
absolutely, And and boy did thatwork for us. You know,
that's a very good rule, avery good rule. Whoever feels strongest,
either positively or negatively, that's whoshould win. We yeah, we we
could signal to each other, youknow, just as simple. You know,
I really think it should be thisway. Yeah, share or vice

(45:29):
versa. Then then that's you know, there's no uh no number discussion generally.
But Dan's leaving was huge. Thatwas the one, the first real
big change that we had to absorband address, you know, head on
that that we've got. We've lostone of the three founding members and he

(45:51):
and it was kind of a messytime. We there was a lot of
excess and everybody's part, but Danwas just not functioning well within the you
know, within the guidelines of theband. Rehearsals were hard to get together,
you know. Anyway, and yes, he did have a religious kind
of reawakening. We didn't I didn'trealize how strong his Baptist roots were.

(46:12):
And that was the time of alot of born again Christian people and he
was said born again. But atthat point when that was the reality,
Jerry and I had that big decision, are we going to fill his shoes?
Get another guy? How do youdo that? Because right from the
initial seat it was three guys sittingin a car working on vocals, you

(46:36):
know, and things. It wasa really close knit thing. We're not
going to get a guy that canbe that close and be part of the
germ of it all. So sothen we did start making decisions relative to
that, getting other players. Wegot as big as a seven piece.
We'd always been a five piece thetrio with the rhythm section based in drums,

(46:57):
and now we got as big asseven, didn't we We had our
guitar tech. Dan was not onlya singer and a songwriter, he was
our lead guitars. Basically we allplayed guitars and and Dan was basically our
lead guitars. So we needed alead guitar player. And and then we
expanded with a percussionist and a keyboardslash sacks player. We really expanded the

(47:22):
sound on stage. At that pointit changed from that three guys with acoustic
guitars into a bigger sound. Ithink funny design. Can we go back

(48:06):
a second. I don't know howyou two met or how the band got
together. Okay, I'm going towell London, England. American kids.
Our dads were Air Force stationed overthere, went to an American high school,
so it's kind of a melting potof kids from all over the country,
and a lot of them had traveledaround the world. Jerry's family was

(48:29):
coming from Germany, I believe,before they ended up there in London,
and Dance had been in Pakistan andplaces, so you know, you're from
all walks, really, but theone thing you have in common is you're
these American kids. And some werecivilians, but most of them were the
military. So yeah, we justmet in high school. And I think
I met Jerry on the track team, although I remember vividly seeing I was

(48:52):
playing guitar a little bit. I'dbeen playing since I was in the seventh
grade, but nothing very serious.And I remember seeing a band called The
Corporation and this guy planning bait,cool looking guy with a beetle base and
it was Ja and I was kindof, you know, enamored by watching
him perform there and but we metthen on the track team. Uh what

(49:17):
were we high jumpers? Yeah?We were what's the term for not so
high jumping jumper? I believe Ithink is that a category anymore? I
think we were remembers. Not soso are you saying that if you jump
just a little higher there would nothave been a band? Now we could
clear about five foot, which nowamazing. It was a real low bar.

(49:43):
We have to be a literal lowbar. Y we're being chased through
a field. We could clear five. But every every air base has you
know, there's this team club,social you know, the base has some
kind of social activities. I livedin Germany for a while and he lived
in a million bases. But wewere being we were teenagers and there was
the a ya youth activities, andso eventually we ended up in the same

(50:06):
band. And there are cover bandsyou play every Friday, and you like
try and learn whatever the top twentyten songs is, you know, because
you've got AFN so you've got allthe American songs that might not be on
the British PBC anyway. So thatwas your repertoire. And I do like
to mention that at that particular timein sixty nine, late late sixty sixty

(50:28):
nine, there were records like VanillaFudge doing You Keep Me Hanging On,
which was not only a fantastic cover, but a complete remake, you know,
it to accept and it was like, oh, so you can take
about you can take an up tempoand turn it into a ballad. You
can take a So that was whatI seemed to remember as being the segue

(50:52):
from being covered copying people to writing. It was the what can we do
to this tune? You know,let's make this ballad up tempo and stuff.
So it did. It was apretty short leap from that kind of
stuff where you were rewriting pop hitstoday to writing your own stuff. And
anybody Jimmy was on, you know, you would see that That's basically what

(51:17):
people do is, you know what, you're supergroup of all the people in
your head that you've listened to allyour life, you know, so you
throw them all together and you spitout your results. But this this band
that you're forming, how old areyou when that's happening? Fifteen? Fifteen
fifteen, Well I was fifteen,started my senior year. For a couple
of for a couple of weeks becauseI had skipped a couple of grades.

(51:39):
Was sixteen. No, there's you'dthink that. You think I think somebody.
I think it was a clerical errorbecause I didn't have it. I'm
fairly scraping through because I didn't givea damn. Every week it was just
music and I was in a band, and we would get together and learn.

(51:59):
It was a couple of other brothers, the Merrill brothers, and we
were all in these bands together,and so every weekend was our chance to
shine. But you wrote I needyou at sixteen. I did. I
wrote I need sixteen actually before America. It was one of my first because
I clearly remember sitting in Carpenter's Parkat my dad's organ. My dad was
an Air Force currently had an organthere and I kind of strummed it,

(52:22):
and I can tell you it wasI was. We were huge Beg fans.
In fact, do can tell youthe story about Sandman how that occurred.
But anyway, on Begi's had asong. I was small and Christmas
trees were tall. We used tolaugh. All of this used to do,
and so we used to laugh,used to cry. Yeah, that's

(52:45):
where it kind of came from weknow that song. Yes, that song

(53:15):
was. I have a memory ofevery Middle of the Road singer covered that
song. My mom had eight tracktapes and I loved America. But then
I would hear I think, Idon't know if it was. It's like
every Andy Williams, Johnny Mathis,That's that's great one John Andy Williams.

(53:35):
And we did a thing before ourshow, is a thing called the scizzle
Wheel where you play all of thesecovers of things, and we had about
Harry Nielsen, Well, here's alovely story Harry was going to do.
When we first met Harry, hehad heard the album. Derek Taylor had
played the album for him and hesaid that song I Need You. What
are you guys going to do withthat? And we said, it's,
uh, thank you, but it'snot going to be a single. Horse

(53:58):
We've we've just gone in and cutthis some horse. It's going to be
the single, he says, becauseI would like to cut that as my
follow up to Without You. Hehad heard I Need You and he said,
and he made me I swear tillhis dying day, Jered player and
you had to play it all thetime. He loved it, but when
we released it as the follow upsingle, he can his plan to cut

(54:19):
it. But if you can imaginehim cutting it with Richard Perry in Harry's
heyday, that would have been nap. He did cut it years later,
but his voice was starting to go, so there is a version of Harry
doing it. He was a goodfriend of yours later, wasn't he right
from the start, right from veryearly. Dewey and I met Harry in
nineteen seventy one at Indarrick Taylor's office. Ringo told me once he said,

(54:45):
you would have loved John, andJohn might have liked you. But he
also told me, oh, youwould have loved Harry and he would have
loved you. So I wish whenI moved here, I just missed the
chance. And I know he hada rough you know, it was not
easy for him at the end,but what a great artist he was.
He was. I'm in that documentary. There's a lovely documentary called Who's Harry

(55:07):
Nielson and Vice of Beauty? AndI tell a story where I say,
if you go on a two orthree bender with Harry, you'd get replaced,
you know, because you'd of courserun out of steam and Harry's ready
to go all week and you'd giveme replaced and you were equal parts elated
that you'd been let off the hook. I can finally go to bed and

(55:28):
offended that you've been replaced. Youknow, somebody else has come to slotted
into your spot. Mickey Dolans wouldtake your place, or someone else like
I did my time in the NielsenSchool. Yeah, rock and roll.
What is next for you guys?We have a couple of things coming up
that are really lovely. As wementioned before, we have the Hollywood Bowl,

(55:50):
which is our not only our firstever live release including Dan, but
also just an honor to share awhole project with George Martin. He's featured,
he's conducting without the whole album.And we have a documentary coming out
which is has changed names a fewtimes. Do I think it's called I
Need You Now The Story of America? I think it is anyway, that's

(56:12):
changed a few times, and that'scoming out this year. And but Jerry,
you have you announced that you're you'regoing to stop touring now that that's
uh. The biggest change in ourorganization is after fifty three years, we
announced a hiatus last year, whichwas a time for both Dewey and I
to get a little oxygen in oursystems. We had been doing basically one

(56:34):
hundred shows for fifty three straight years, and I had now built a life
where I was splitting my time betweenSydney and we have a lovely home in
la and Do and I discussed thiswas nothing that was kind of sprung on
everybody that I was physically just didn'tfeel that I was able to deliver my
my best anymore. And I justdidn't want to embarrass myself, embarrass the

(56:57):
band and you know and stuff.And so after about a six month hiatus,
which I know everybody kind of enjoyedand took a breather, do he
came and said, you know,I think I got a little bit left
in the tank. So with myblessing, they're going to go out and
I'll let do we tell you this. They're going to go out and do
some as early as July. Butwe have a lovely guy. I'm still
very much part of the band,busy right now here in Sydney, working

(57:20):
on a few things in the studiofor that side of things. But a
guy named Andy Barr who toured withus a few years ago. I love
as a lead guitarist. It's abeautiful voice and I'm honored to have him
on stage and because i know he'llnail those parts, and I'm looking forward
to seeing the reviews. Let mestep in there too, because this is
a bittersweet topic. You're right upto speed right now, David, Phil

(57:42):
it's really going on as we speak, because this decision was only made a
few weeks ago, and when Icouldn't convince Jerry to come back out,
and I really feel I still it'sstill a connection I have with who I
am and what I do, soI feel like I could do it.
Discussions with Jerry said go ahead andtry it. So I'm going to be
fronting the band, which has neverbeen my role. I've always preferred to

(58:06):
be just a team player, andJerry has really been an excellent as when
we've talked in the beginning. Couldn'thave a better partner, Jered. You
know, our strength and weaknesses havealways countered each other, I thought,
pretty marvelously. But so yeah,it's not a role I take easily,
but I think we do have awonderful bass player tour manager named Rich Campbell,

(58:29):
and Jerry will concur He is sucha wizard in all departments, all
things touring and all musical. He'sthe musical director because I'm not that great.
Like with Andy, Barr will betaking He'll be sort of stepping into
Jerry's shoes in a sense. Nobodycan fill those shoes, of course,
but someone's got to sing those songs. I would not want to step in

(58:53):
and sing Jerry's songs. I justdon't think I could do that and do
them justice and awkward, you know. Whereas Andy has a great voice,
he was chosen for that reason andI'm so glad he was available. I
had to take on this, thisrole of trying to find some players because
we've lost a crew member as wellsince then, so our in front of

(59:15):
house sound man and and another memberof the crew is being changed out.
So it's a big thing right now, so work in progress. It's going
to involve a couple of songs thatchanges. Obviously we play the hits.
People want to hear the hits,but we also want to be creative and
pull out some album cuts and dosome things. So it's, uh,

(59:38):
it's a raw thing right this minute. If you have one concerned guys,
is that I count off every song, you know, which usually goes like
this, one, two, three, four, And who's going to do
that. I'm not sure what's goingto happen. Count to Phil. Phil
will do that. I can doit. He's great at that. This
is the one thing I can do. We have a great thing that happened

(59:58):
with one do he said to me. I'm a little foggy after the count
what he meant when he wasn't exactlysure what the opening phrase of the thing
was. But it just sounds sucha generalization. I'm great up through the
county. It's amazing, you know, the chemistry of a show with five

(01:00:19):
guys playing on stage and then you'vegot your crew. But there's a lot
of bits of action, of bitsof business that go on between songs and
things that you take for granted.You know, I'd be walking back to
my amp to get a drink ofthe water or grab a pick or a
cap pole while Jerry's rapping on themic, and vice versa, all these
kind of little It's not just learningthe songs or a place they want or

(01:00:40):
two songs. It's about the paceof the show that's taken decades to really,
you know, we always talked aboutthe running order of a set.
People don't realize how important that is, the songs you choose and which come
after others to keep a rhythm tothat show. It's literally story struck.
Sure, yeah, there really isfull circle back to the Beach Boys.

(01:01:04):
It is something that we learned veryearly on because we were following them around
like little puppies in nineteen seventy one. But one thing that's apparent when you
see the Beach Boys is they theyknow how to make a medley. When
you've got like a bunch of youngnovice kids up there, you don't want
to play two and a half threeminutes song and then kind of pick your
nose and tune the guitar for afew minutes, then play another one.
They would play five hits in arow, bam bam, bam, bam

(01:01:28):
bam, And not only were theyall really strong songs, but they accumulated
strength by not giving the audience quitea breather in between us like oh yeah,
and each one would lift you.Yeah, Springsteen does one of the
tools we learned, you know,So that means those gaps need to be
measured you know, they can't bea gap. It's a dynamic thing that
has to be addressed. And youknow that'll happen too. Well, it

(01:01:50):
won't be the same without Jair.But we're going to get out there,
and so were a lot less complaining. I can tell you that. Well,
here's the deal. I'm going totake Phil to the next gig in
l in the La. Yeah.I will tell you that, like Phil's
show, is all about the joyand the upside of seeing the world and
getting outside of your own experience.And one of the things as a fan

(01:02:13):
of yours, one of the thingsthat's been great is when I go to
certain countries every once in a while, I will listen. I listen to
radio and I'll hear a song andI go, how come they're playing Survival,
which I love that it's not ahit, and it was not a
hit in America. And it's coolthat your your global nature means there's certain
hits. Is that is that somethinglike you living in Australia. Are there

(01:02:34):
certain songs where you go to certaincountries and you have to play You know,
long long time ago we learned thatlesson that not not every hit is
a hit everywhere, and sometimes songsthat you wouldn't have thought would be hits.
Survival was an interesting thing. Itwas chosen as the single in Italy.
It was not chosen by Capitol asthe single in the States. The
record, the song we put outin the States didn't happen in the same

(01:02:58):
time we're watching in Italy as SurvivalI went to number one, sold almost
a million copies. Don't you goto that and say, maybe maybe you
guys should consider look And they said, oh no, we've already we're done
with the promotion of that album,you know, And so they missed an
opportunity. But as a result,we went to Italy every year for the
next decade. We were playing soccerstadiums, you know, with a song

(01:03:20):
that nobody even knew in the States. It wasn't you know, it wasn't
even in the show. By theway, going to Italy every year sounds
like a very good thing to fillon that thing. But that that's another
subject really quick I wanted to touchon because when we first started getting booked
into South America, I think thefirst shows we did were in like Ecuador,
and we thought, what the hell, Ecuador, I don't see any

(01:03:40):
signs that we sold one record inEcuador. But when you get there,
we're playing bull rinks and things andthere's people screaming and they're singing low.
It was because of bootlegs in thosedays. You know, now streaming and
everything, you could pass files around, but it was purely bootleg Sales down
there were huge. I guess younever know what you're going to find in

(01:04:00):
certain parts of the world. Yep, Jerry, Before we let you go,
I just had to give you thistip. Do you know the restaurant
in Sydney called Saint Peter? Yes, I do. It's about it's about
a quarter of a mile from ourhouse. I was. I was there
in the fall. I thought itwas one of the best seafood Josh.
I know, yes, it's asecret. Yeah, yeah, is no,

(01:04:24):
Josh, what's a better seafood restaurantthan that. It's unbelievable. It's
right up there. In fact,we get a lot of because right a
few doors down from there is there'sa fish market where he actually sells fresh
fish. He's a genius. That'sfor another show. But yes, anytime
my wife is a foody I eatfood. Is that if it does we're

(01:04:45):
all food opportunity of wares are peoplethat eat what's ever put in front of
them, So my mother would haveliked. I just went to Sydney for
the first time last year, mywife and I and the greatest meal I
ever had was I love mister Wong. I go to Sydney for a Chinese
food, which is quite a trip, and will mister Wrongs is one of

(01:05:05):
our favorites. I will tell youfinal thought, and I don't think you
can answer this question, but there'sprobably some America fan listening who can tell
me. I went right back tothe day my dad took me from my
fourteenth birthday party to see you guys, and I remembered, oh, yeah,
that was the night Eric Carmon musthave canceled, because I was also

(01:05:26):
a fan of Eric Carmon, whohe lost recently. Because I grew up
not on the Beatles. I grewup on America and the Raspberries, and
I wanted to see this show.And I remember we were running late,
and when we got there, youguys were about to go on, and
I was excited, but my dadgoes, oh, don't worry, Eric
Carman canceled and only my dad's beengone fifteen years, and just yesterday I

(01:05:49):
realized I think my dad lied becausewhen I looked it up online, it
says Eric Carmon did show up atNassau Coliseum. So I just want to
say I forgive my dad for lying, because you love me enough not to
want me, and he didn't realizeAmerica would always be enough for me.
Rest in peace, Eric Carmon avery talented man, very talented. Dah

(01:06:11):
oh, thank you very much,Phil. I love meeting you guys.
I've been a fan for many,many years. And uh, it's nice
that we're all growing all together.That's true, that's what's happening. That's
the reality of it all. It'snice to still be here a lot of
history and put ourselves into perspective alittle bit. And it's wonderful that we

(01:06:34):
can talk to you guys. Thankyou great, thank you. Nice to
be a part of your show,you guys. Congratulations and uh and looking
forward to this episode. Aaron,when does it we're gonna get it?
I think for records store a weekwe want. Yeah, let's make sure
we promote the album. Yeah,guys, I'll sign off, dude,

(01:06:56):
I'm sure we'll be cheating them.You know things will you guys are so
nice, Thank you so much,Thank you so much. I'm in the
future. I can tell you thatit does tomorrow happens nice. I don't
want anybody worrying. And it lookslike you're still out there. I see
your name at least on there youbuddy and good La. Can you guys
connect me and do with Jimmy.I'd love to George, I promise,

(01:07:20):
and then I'll go back in Jimmy. If you are listening, I'm back
in a few weeks. I'd loveto see it. They just don't have
electricity at an A M Studious.I've worked there a lot. Uh and
I think someone checked too many egosat the door for Quincy Jones' request,
so brought down. Well. Thankyou guys, Thank you great Sia Jair

(01:07:46):
in the future and coming up soontogether on Naked Lunch Michael McDonald and Paul
Riser. That was one of likethe random events of my life that we've
nicle in the book. But wemet at the party. But I'm gonna
let him tell you that part.All I can say is, you know,

(01:08:06):
I have a lot of friends who'vewritten memoirs, and I talked to
them, and they they range frompeople who fired the person they were writing
with in the first chapter to I'mright here, Michael. But people hear
you who you know? They theyyou know, they they had a problem
with not writing it themselves, sothey thought, you know, I think

(01:08:27):
I'm lucky to know better, youknow. But when I tell them who
wrote mine with me, inevitably they'llgo, oh, how the hell did
you get so lucky? And it'sand that's how I feel, because I
mean, I believe me, Iwouldn't have gotten past the preface and it
would have been long, one longrunning sentence. And Phil hasn't gotten past
the preface. So it doesn't matterwho exactly. When people when I tell

(01:08:51):
people, you know, they said, who'd you write the Michael McDonald book
with? I said, Michael McDonald, you do that? I could not.
Naked Lunch is a podcast by PhilRosenthal and David Wilde. Theme song
and music by Brad Paisley, Producedby Will Sterling. Executive produced by Phil
Rosenthal, David Wilde, and ourconsulting journalist is Pamela Cellen. If you

(01:09:13):
enjoyed the show, share it witha friend. But if you can't take
my word for it, take Phil's, and don't forget to leave a good
rating and review we like five stars. Thanks for listening to Naked Lunch,
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