Born To Talk BRUCE!: A Totally BOSS Conversation with the "None But The Brave" Podcast

Instead of the usual "Lunch," Phil & David dine out on some great stories about their musical hero Bruce Springsteen with the deeply knowledgeable hosts of the totally Boss podcast "None But The Brave," Hal Schwartz and Flynn McLean who since 2019 have been an excellent source of in-depth talk about Springsteen's enduring work. There are great stories about first Bruce concerts, memorable "Glory Days" they all had meeting with The Boss, favorite songs in the Springsteen cannon and so much more that will rock your world. To follow "None But The Brave: The Springsteen Podcast for the True Aficionado," go here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/none-but-the-brave/id1479939374. To learn more about building community through food and "Somebody Feed the People," visit the Philanthropy page at philrosenthalworld.com.

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Still, yes, what do wedo almost every time we're together? What

(00:32):
do we discuss where we're gonna eat? And Springsteen has been a runner in
our show, in our friendship exactly, and I'm the one from New Jersey,
and yet I think you bring themup more often. But we uh,
we both have tons of Springsteen stories, but we've figured and they've come
up in our Paul Riiser episode.They came up. Uh in Um,

(00:56):
I'm trying to think. Oh,Alan Us recently told the great stories interviewing
him for The Defiant Ones. Butbesides us talking about Bruce, I thought,
how do we make an episode,a totally boss episode where we can
talk about Springsteen and share some stories. And then I realized I love a
podcast called None but the Brave,True to Form, named after a outtake

(01:23):
and not you know that a soundthat didn't make one of the many brilliant
songs that we'll talk about that didn'tmake a studio record originally. Um,
so this is deep dive stuff.This is deep deep oh no. And
my point is it brings me backto the beginning of when I discovered the
Internet. Because until the Internet,I thought I was the biggest fan of

(01:44):
everybody I loved, and then yourealize, no, no, I'm just
the same person who loves Springsteen.And then you enter the world of people
who including the two gentlemen who arejoining us, Hal Schwartz and Flint McClane,
or as I call them, Jewand non jew. Let's build the

(02:10):
means to the fat, food forthought, jokes, on time, talking
with on mouthsful, having fun,piece of cake, humble time, serving
up slice lively. The dressing onthe side, it's naked lunch clothing option.

(02:32):
I'm that may be projecting, andmaybe I'm wrong there, but that
is correct. Okay, I amnot Jewish, but my wife is.
So there is so you've also suffered. But in any case, then the
crazy fact is so I reached outto them on Twitter and said to uh,
and Hal got back to me andsaid, we'll do it. Also,

(02:54):
we were neighbors, which is isthat true? How do you have
really have a memory of me beingyour neighbor because I don't remember ever talking
to anybody else well in that building. Yes, because I was at the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame concertin Cleveland in nineteen ninety five and I

(03:14):
looked back and you were you musthave been covering. It was because I
saw I was writing it. Isaw you backstage and I was like,
what is my neighbor doing backstage atthe Rock and Roll Hall of Fame show?
And then I found that, andI think you moved out shortly thereafter
once I once you approached me,I moved out exactly. Uh No,

(03:36):
In fact, we lived. Thiswas on Dohini Drive and it was when
the earthquake came whenever year that wasfours. I was just dating Fran and
we were just about getting engaged.But she had to move out of her
apartment because it was destroyed, andthat was my excuse to live with her
in Sin. And we lived inSin next to hal Short, which made

(04:00):
less of us, yes, lessof us Sin. But guys, tell
us about how long have you beendoing your podcast? Well, we've been.
We started in uh cease. Thefirst episode was September twenty thirty nineteen.
We did a deep dive the trackby check analysis of the then just
released Western Stars album and uh wekept hoping. Well. First off,

(04:26):
obviously the pandemic hit in early twentyand we had to keep going to hoping
for a tour. What happened sothat we could cover it. Uh,
let's talk about Western Stars, Okay, an album I'm obsessed with to this
day. I listened to their episodeabout it this morning, No kidding,
thank you, We've gotten a lotbetter back and listens to our first up.

(04:49):
So you guys love you love thatalbum? Yes? Yes, absolutely,
And by the way, is inmy top three or four records I
listened to buy Bruce Springsteen Tunnel.I think I'm like, like at least
one of you guys. I can'tremember which. Tunnel of Love and Western
Stars are probably the two records Ilistened to the most. Wow, all

(05:12):
right, because I don't know.Maybe I'm old fashioned or just old,
but I'm seventies eighties Bruce. That'sme. That's where the sweet spot is
for me. I'm not saying Idon't like the other albums, but that's
if I go to an album,it's usually from there, or especially live
recordings from that. See. Ilove it because I am a seventies guy,

(05:33):
as our film, pop culture,music and everything, and that really
is a record about that music fromthat late sixties, seventies West Coast music
and whether it was Jimmy Webb orGlenn Campbell, right, It's like he
was channeling that error where I fellin love with music that times when I

(05:55):
totally fell in love with music,and so it's nostalgic for you too.
It's nostalgic, but I gotta say, because we'll get around to this too.
I'm sure the most recent soul recordis probably the record I will have
listened to least ever by Bruce Springsteen, because what I love about him is
as a singer songwriter. I lovea great singer songwriter. I in concert.

(06:18):
I was never the one who Iappreciated the cool cover of a great
R and B tune. But he'snot Wilson Pickett. He's not Sam Moore.
If I want to hear that,I'd like to hear it by the
original dude. So even like Iwould rather any more personal statement any like.
That's why Tunnel of Love is myfavorite, maybe of all time,

(06:40):
because it feels intimate, rip bearof any artifice. It's just the guy
telling you his story, which Westernstars to me, Oh, it always
felt it deeply, And then ifyou listen to their podcast, their debut
podcast years ago, it sort ofdoes tap into the fact that he was
going through some serious on that record. Yeah, that is that's his depression

(07:01):
record. And with that sounds likeRyan Stone Cowboy. But if you Ryan
Stone Cowboy was pretty depressed. Ifyou actually go back and look at what
the song's about, it's about Wow, you're really selling this album to me?
Yes, his most depressed record.You would think you would think Nebraska
or Jode would be the most depressedrecord, but no, I think Western

(07:26):
Stars, Western Start is it.Actually it's funny. I love the album.
I think it's beautiful, but Ican't listen to it because I just
hit feelings of anxiety, the samekind of feelings that you know, like
I feel like a middle aged mangives basically, and that's kind of what
that album is. That's when hehit depression, wasn't it. Yeah that

(07:48):
was one of the times. Well, yeah, we're gonna talk today.
The core of this conversation I thinkwill be about other times he faced depression
when he met some of us,which on our recent episode with the director,
my director friend Alan Us, hetalked about interviewing Bruce and I was

(08:09):
working with him on this prepping forit. When he interviewed Bruce for the
Defiant Ones about Jimmy Iveen and doctorDre and Phil and I and Alan had
a sort of shared sort of momentabout the realization of when you meet someone
you love this much and you getthe immediate sense I think, as Alan
put it, no more friends,like Bruce doesn't have need any more friends

(08:33):
you've had? Well, the dreamis if we if if we love Bruce
Springsteen, the dream is boy.I wish he was my buddy, right,
But like David saying, he doesn'tneed us as buddies. He has
Spielberg and Obama, you know hedoesn't need us. Thanks, Yeah,
Hanks. It's uh, it's sadreally knowing that will never be friends.

(08:58):
But what I'm to talk about someof my let's all talk about a brush.
We can go around taking turns on. Let's hear from these guys.
Let's let them talk first. Okay, Well, we were in this club
Mars and he was playing with Jogurshekin the house Rockers, and he had
just started using an actual teleprompter onthe nineteen ninety two ninety three tours,
so I guess he felt kind ofnaked without it, and this was a

(09:20):
club where he didn't have that kindof equipment with him, and he came
out and he was like, damn, I I can't see the lyrics.
And somehow I wound up getting enlistedto serve is basically a human teleprompter for
the evening with the lyric sheets.It was. It was pretty funny.
What did you mean you did?You? Did you draw the pig?

(09:41):
Like? He handed me his sheetswhich had been written out so he could
see them, and I was literallysix inches from him because it was this
tiny club which held like three hundredpeople, and basically helped it up high
enough so he could see it.Wow. And yeah, it was pretty
intense because obviously the entire performance ofthose songs, he only needed it.

(10:05):
He played four originals at night,Lucky Town, Atlantic City, a couple
of others. He needed the lyricsheets for his originals, and uh,
it was. It was very intense. I bet you were pinging yourself right.
They can't believe you're doing this.It was pretty crazy. I was
really young at the time, andI had met him before. I've been
Lucky in Flint has met him aswell. I've met him probably five six

(10:30):
times over the years. There wasanother time at the Roxy that was also
pretty crazy, but yeah it was. It was a great night. And
then then hell, tell him whatwhat Bruce called you? Come on,
don't leave that part out? Ohright, yeah, if well, that's
on tape if you listen to theboot like he called me a great man?
Yes, he said, are agreat man? Yow. Now thirty

(10:52):
years later he's like, why didthese guys do this podcast and picked me
all the time? Me? Hearthis, Tonel Phil, tell them the

(11:31):
story about how you met Bruce andhow Rob Low made it a little more.
I have told that on the podcastbefore we tell us. Oh,
I'll tell you all right. Uh. I was gonna meet him and and
and I was running everybody who livesRaymond at the time, and I I
got to go to the show heopened the Staples Center. I don't know

(11:54):
if you were here then the yeartwo times. So I've been a fan
for you know, since the seventhese and now here it is two thousand
and I'm finally going to get tomeet him because someone I know knows him
and tells me I can come downstairsafter the show and they'll introduce me to
Bruce. So after the show,go downstairs, and I'm waiting, and
I see a guy I kind ofknow a little bit, Rob Low,

(12:16):
the actor, and he says,Phil, what are you doing here?
And said I have a friend I'mgonna meet Brucey goes, you haven't met
Bruce, come here, and hepulls me over to Bruce Springsteen and I'm
like no, no, no,no, no, no no, because
it's in my mind how this isgonna go? Okay? And Rob says
just blurts out, Bruce, haveyou met my friend Phil? He created

(12:41):
Everybody Loves Raymond? And Bruce Springsteensays what's that? Oh that's perfect?
And I turned to Rob as ifto say, thanks, Rob, this
is exactly how I want it togo. And Rob turns into Woody Allen

(13:03):
and starts going, oh, well, you see, it's a very popular
UM show. It's it's on CBS, and it's a comedy. And Bruce
Springsteen, to show you what agreat guy he is, without hesitation,
goes, oh, well, nowI'm gonna watch because I know the guy,
which is incredibly and it's very sweetto say. And I just melted

(13:24):
and went, you don't have towatch, you don't have to watch the
show. I'll still buy your records. The follow up. The reason I
wanted to tell that story again isI have a Roblow Springstet story I've never
told you, which is here weGo I covered I think it was a
guy named Fred Goodman, and Iwent to Worcester, Mass for the opening

(13:46):
of the Tunnel of Love tour,and I don't know, I think Fred
was covering and I was just dry. I don't know why. I don't
know which one of us was writingit up. But I actually heard there's
a podcast you guys have done aboutthat exactly. You know, a couple
of shows in opening m that tourwhich are were notable and very interesting.
But after that show, I wasbrought backstage and I was talking to Patty,

(14:13):
who was his background singer. Asfar as I knew, that's all
I knew as far as it wentother than I had met her when I
went to see the south Side Johnnyand the Asbury Jukes at the Ritz on
the Why is Love Such a Sacrificetour? Not even a primo moment in
the south Side Johnny Oove and shewas the backing vocalist and she had come

(14:35):
out after the show and I dancedwith Patty Scalfe that show and I was
starting to tell her that and RobBlow came up and gave her a hug,
and she lost to me and thatwas the end of me. So
I think the theme of this podcastis we hate Rob Blow. Yes,

(14:56):
I actually loved Rob Blow. He'sone of the nicest, sweetest have you
ever met him? He's a teamNow. The reason we can't be friends
with Bruce's because Roblow's friend his friend, right, Robs a chief friends.
Yes, he's a true friendship.Uh. But I've met him now several
times too, and he's always beenvery kind and gracious and Bruce like he's

(15:18):
you know, his talk about actsof kindness. I don't know if you
remember reading in the seventies and eightiesabout his legendary kind of beautiful acts of
like remember that interview. I thinkit was in Rolling Stone where he's on
the road maybe for the Darkness tourand a kid he goes out to the

(15:43):
movies and a kid he can't believethat he's meeting Bruce Springsteen and he's in
the middle of like the Midwest,and he says, would you come over
for dinner? Is that the story? And he tells and he tell tell,
tell the people that story you cantell better than me. Well,
he was at seeing Woody Allen startedUs Memories alone, runs into a k.

(16:06):
He runs into a kid. Yeah, and the kid is like,
oh my god, it's Bruce Springsteenand you're here alone. Do you want
to sit with us? Yeah?And to make a long story short,
he literally winds up going home withthe kid. But wait, wait,
I'm sorry, I remembered one detail. It started us Memories and Woody Allen
in the movie is what a nightmareit is to be famous? And look

(16:29):
at and the fans that this guyhas in the movie are all hideous creatures,
you know, and all awful.And what does the kid say to
Bruce after the movie? Something likedo you feel the same way? That's
right, that's right, And Brucesays no, no man, And the
kid invites him home for dinner andthe remember the porter, Yeah, go

(16:51):
ahead. Unbelievably so this has goneon for decades now. The woman's name,
the mother of the kid ye wasnamed Sophie Okay as late as two
thousand and eight in Saint Louis.In August of two thousand and eight,
Bruce played a show in Saint Louiswhich a lot of us think was one
of the best shows that he's playedin the last thirty years. And during

(17:12):
that show, he's constantly called she'sthere. Sophie is at the show,
and he's constantly calling out to her, Sophie, and then he ends the
show which was in shout for her. Oh, this is great to hear.
Why don't you love this? Imean it just talk about burnishing the
legend, right, I mean,it's just so nice. I was just

(17:33):
so impressed as a huge fan,like this is the biggest star in the
world at this time that I'm readingthis about where he goes to kids house
for dinner, that he would beso kind and generous, And I remember
the reporter asked him, why wouldyou do that? He goes, well,
you go because not only do youget the kid, you get the
mom, you get the sister.He's talking about characters for his work,

(17:56):
right, So he wanted to experienceas much of the life as possible,
which is what makes him him.That's true. Um. I wondered what
each of us, what was thefirst time you ever saw Bruce? Everyone?
What was your first gig? Phil? What was your first gig?
Oh? I you know, listen. Maybe I'm I'm the oldest here.

(18:19):
Maybe I'm thinking. So I firstheard a bootleg I Capitol Theater, Passaic,
New Jersey, seventy eight. I'min college. There was no MTV,
there was no way to see Inever saw him, but I heard
the bootleg and I got him.I got it. Oh, this is

(18:41):
the this is the greatest, Thismust be the greatest show in the world
to see. I have to seethis show. Well it was two years
later that I finally got to seehim. And I'm at that show NASA
Coliseum nineteen eighty right, really,I'm at which remember which night we were
there? New Years for Chance,the night before okay, the twenty night,

(19:04):
that's it were I'm from Long Island. Yes, I went to hospital
in Forest Tolls. Now, asto my father, and Flynn's wife was
at the Claudine was at the NewYear's Each show nineteen eighty Yeah, she
was actually all three of those NassauColiseum shows that so I believe that was
recorded, right, that's a famousshot. Yes, coliseum nights. Right?

(19:29):
No, no, actually, nowget the show you were at.
As an official release from Bruce Springsteen, you can go to Live dot Bruce
Springstey dot net. All three Coliseumshows are out officially. You know what's
weird. I used to fantasize becausewhen once I got the ticket, which
was very hard to get. OnceI got the ticket, I started fantasizing

(19:49):
with, Uh, I wonder whatsong is going to open with? And
I always thought that the song nightwould be a great opener because it that
song hits as if it's in themiddle of the song, that song no
no no, no, no,no no no, there's no faster opening
of the Imagine the burst of energythat that would be. Well, don't

(20:12):
you know what that particular show,certainly not every show he opened with that,
So I felt like it was myshow. My first show was I
became a fan I think when theworld did when Born to Run hit and
then immediately bought every record you knowand played them all on guitar, actually

(20:36):
on tennis racket in my living room. But I didn't get to see him
until I think my brother had goneto college, maybe I had gone to
freshman year of college, and hecame around for the River tour at Madison
Square Garden and my brother and I, my older brother Jeff, we called
my father, who was a NewJersey businessman, which in retrospect, we

(20:56):
grew up not that far other thanthe sopranos, So he was not in
the mob, but he probably knewsome people who were. Because my first
Springsteen show was because my father called, He goes, do you really want
to see Bruce Springsteen? And thisis like the day of the show,
because it's either that I'll college Ican't afford exactly. He goes. He

(21:17):
goes, all right, I'm goingto talk to a guy who knows a
guy. That's what he said.And he said, go to Sparks Steakhouse,
which was later by the way Mobster. A famous Master hit was at
the Park Steakhouse in Midtown. Yes, Podcastallana where he died all I and
let him eat first. I alwaysthought that was kind of nice dinner.
Yeah. I always thought that wasnice that because they could have got him

(21:38):
before he ate, but he hada nice dinner and then goodbye. H
Well, all This is a storyI've told so many times because we talked
about Springstein so much. But Iliterally do believe the Matre d handed us
two tickets for my brother and Iand there might have been blood on them.
I don't know where these tickets camefrom the day of, but I
do know we sat next to MaxWeinberg's mother. I remember spending the show

(22:03):
talking to Max Weinberg's mother. Sothey were good tickets and that was my
entryway into Bruce live. Now I'veseen him thirty forty times. I don't
know how many times. I lostcount. Now, how many times have
you two seen Bruce Springsteen live?Well, I just I just did account

(22:25):
not too long ago, all thetimes I've seen Bruce. Actually I included
on just on stage. I sawhim interview Yon Winner last last fall.
And so my old boss, whoI was with when Hal met me at
the Rock and Hall of Fame,Okay, all right, well hete Bruce
was interviewing him at the ninety secondStreet Wide in Manhattan, and I count

(22:45):
that as as a performance as asseeing him. So it's about two hundred
and fifty four I believe it ismy current account. What do you spend,
Well, I'm around the same number. What do you know? People
who've seen way more than that.You know, there are dead hands who
have seemed like, seemed like eighthundred shows. But I really and I

(23:07):
know we all love Bruce Springsteen.I think he's the greatest performer who's ever
lived. That's my honest feeling.There's no there's never been a greater entertainer
and ever. But don't you geta little board um the rubbing times?

(23:30):
You know, there's still something newalmost every night. I say, almost
felt like some of the shows onthis tour has have had a very but
those new, those new moments aremoments the rest of the time, you're
I mean, I can't think ofanything I've seen two hundred times. There's
something that how many times have youbeen with your wife talk about the same

(23:56):
thing every time? You know?I lost count there too. I don't
know. I don't keep that.I don't keep track of that in a
spreadsheet. So wow. She alsoopened with night once I heard, Oh
boy. What I'll say is thereis a there's like Flynn would not have

(24:17):
met his wife, and I'll letFlynn address this. We talked about this
on the podcast quite a bit.The community that surrounds these shows, yes,
is as important as the shows.It's like you want to live in
that world. And I have manyof my closest friends, even people who
live here in Los Angeles who Isee three times a week. My buddy

(24:37):
Ron, who I go to theDodger games with, where season ticket holders
together. We met at the Houseof Blues on sunset back when the House
of Blues first opened, and we'vebeen friends ever since. Bonding originally over
brused, so that building unity buildingis gone, but your friendship is still
gone. Yeah, correct. Soand Flynn would not know his wife without

(24:57):
this man. We talked about thisang time. He has created a very
powerful community. So it's it's muchmore than just the shows. And I
think like Flynn is counting everything thereas am I. So you know,
there have been nights where I've beenout here in Los Angeles, I've seen
him in clubs you know that wasn'teven really necessarily planned and stuff like that.

(25:17):
So there's a lot that goes intoit. But the community is very,
very important. And and Flynn,you met your wife like at a
show. No, No, it'sthrough the community. As Hall said,
there was there was the America AmericanOnline. It was it America. I
forget. The AOL board back inthe mid nineties was pretty active and had
a pretty good community going. Anda friend I went up to visit a

(25:41):
friend that I had met, andthen he and I came up to the
Queens to visit you know, thiswoman, Claudine, and he wanted to
hit to get with her, andI wanted to actually get with his sister.
Neither one worked. And then likea week later I emailed Claudine asking
for information because she was pretty prettyplugged in, and she didn't give me

(26:03):
any information. But we did talklike every night for the next like two
weeks, and then came up tovisit her or mid mid to late August
and started dating and like immediately.And I was still living in the in
the DC area at the time,so we we did a lot of commuting
for a few years in there.And had she ever established is Bruce Springsteen
the hall pass that she is allowedto run off with Bruce? Should he

(26:27):
make that decision? My wife gaveme the adamantly says no. She has
adamantly said no to that, soI you know, he's off the wall
passed No, Bruce, you know, he always kind of wonders like you
know, like the Hall Pass,the laminated pass at the top, the
five you know exceptions, and no, he would not be on her list.

(26:51):
I'm at Cluggeon of the show aswell. August fourth, nineteen ninety
two, Bruce came out and openedwith this rarity Redheaded Woman, and I
turned around. The woman is writingthe setlist down, so I don't know
if she knows the song. Igo, the name of the song is
Redheaded Woman. She said, Iknow. We started talking, and literally
this was nineteen ninety two. Thirtyone years later, we have spoken at

(27:12):
least once a day every day forthirty one years. Wow, so you're
the Hall Pack days. And that'show I met. One of my most

(27:48):
interesting to me was because I learneda little bit about two of my heroes,
my two maybe the two greatest singersongwriters of all time. On when
year in the Grammys, we hadBob Dylan on the show, and this
guy, Bob Dylan, he mighthave been an influence on Springsteen and Bruce
on the show. This is funny. He was doing I think his number
for the Seeger sessions and I hadwritten an intro for Tom Hanks to introduce

(28:15):
Bruce, and Hanks came in,Tom, who I've worked with a lot
and great guy, loves Bruce.So I wrote a lengthy because it also
had to explain the Pete seeger ofit all, you know, besides talk
giving Bruce his praise, and Iwrote a long two paragraph intro, which
Hanks came and rehearsed, and thenTom Hanks left. Bruce walked in right

(28:37):
after him, and he looked atthe intro when they stand in read it
and called me aside. He goes, David, I can't live up to
two paragraphs pick one, and Iliterally had to sort of even though Tom
Hanks had already rehearsed it. Ihad a slash and burn, but it
was really kind of a sweet,humble thing. Ironically, the same exact

(28:57):
day, Bob Dylan came in andI'd written him, because what are you
going to say about Bob Dylan?He's Bob Dylan. I made it like
a very short sort of like ladiesand gentlemen, you know, the founder,
the prototype whatever. It was likea one sentence Bob Dylan, and
Bob Dylan called me over and goes, give me a little moore, give
me a little moore, and Ijust thought, okay, it's like I'm

(29:18):
a fine tailor to all of myheroes, Like that's what you do.
He just make it work for eachof them very sweet. I'd love to
hear each of your favorite Springsteen stories. Doesn't have to be with you.
It's just like your favorite story eitherwith you or about him, that anything

(29:45):
pop into your head. Well,he's such a gracious person, yeah,
because you know there are people likeus who are I'm sure annoying him at
all times. I was at therock Boxy one night Patty his wife at
play a solo show at the Roxy. I think it was in two thousand
and four, and my buddy Jasonsaid, we can go up to the

(30:06):
club above the Roxy and hang atit for the shows on the rocks.
He comes it, Yes, onthe Rocks, and Bruce comes in and
he's been having a good time thatnight, I think. And we're standing
there and we sailo to him,and somehow the idea comes up, then
we should all take a picture together. And I think we had an instant

(30:30):
camera or something. No, itmust have been a digital camera because we
were able to see the shot.We take a shot with him, and
my buddy Jason takes the camera backand we look at the picture and it's
Bruce and Jason and whoever we handedthe camera to, who must have been
incompetent. Basically, I was framedout like you could see like like a

(30:52):
quarter of my face, like rightat the edge of the frame. So
I said to Jason, I'm like, oh my god, no, we
can't have this. We have toanother picture with him. He's like,
how is that going to be possible. I'm like, go over to him
and tell him we have to takeanother picture with them. Wow. So
poor Bruce's Jason goes over to him, and I see them talking, and
Bruce like nods his head, andthey come back and they and we all

(31:14):
take a picture together, which,of course I still have here a perfect
shot. Nice. How about you. I'm gonna I'm gonna stick with the
same kind of theme that the picturestheme at the end. At the end
of the Rising tour, which endeda Shase Stadium in October of two thousand
and three, they had a postshow party. I got an end of
tour party at this place downtown andjust literally, I swear to God,

(31:37):
this is literally my chance. Swearto god, we were at the same
we were literally next door. Totalchance. So we find out that they're
next door they're having the party,and so we go over to like on
the sidewalk, we actually kind ofdrew an imaginary line that we weren't going
to cross. And of course Bruce'sthe last one to leave. We saw

(31:59):
Max out, we saw sting.Bruce is the last one out. It's
like three o'clock in the morning bythis point, maybe even three thirty,
and he's going down. He's shakingeverybody's hands and signing autographs. And then
my wife actually she said, Bruce, have about a picture, and he
says, well, if you cando it right now, he'll do it.
And so there's a group of aboutfifteen people and with him in the

(32:22):
middle, and you can tell thatit's three o'clock in the morning just by
the look on his face. Butyou know, he could have just just
sped off and said, forget it, I'm done, the tour is over,
I'm exhausted. But nah, hestuck around for a few more minutes,
a few more seconds to take thepicture and you know, now the
pictures on our wall. So thatwas one of the one of the cooler

(32:42):
experiences of of our fandom. No, it's like people, I think,
if you know, Phil's now alwaysask to people want pictures with him.
I've been the one to take thepictures I've been and I'm rude to everyone.
No, he couldn't be more graciouswith everyone. But I will say,
like having gone, you live alittle and you realize how much that
can mean. My mother loved NeilDiamond, And when I interviewed him for

(33:06):
Rolling Stone, he called me upafterwards and goes, please bring your mother
to the next show at the youknow whatever. It was in Jersey,
one of the arenas, and rightbeforehand he surprised her and brought her backstage
with us and took a pace atmissus wilde, Carol, would you take
a picture with me? And itgave her all the merchandise whatever. Just
couldn't have been more lovely. Andthat picture was on her bedside table till

(33:30):
the day she died. And yourealize, like that little act of kindness
can reverberate in all of our lives. This is a less sweet story.
But I'll tell you a few brushes. No, I've had a few weird
brushes. One that maybe you guysknow more about than I do is I

(33:50):
am at least one of the guys. But I think I was the guy
who caught the dice in Bruce SpringsteenPlugged when he threw the roll of the
dice dice out. Oh yeah,I caught them. And I'll never and
and I don't I haven't looked atand I don't know. Can you even
watch? Yes, you can plugnow on YouTube. I don't know if

(34:12):
it holds up, but it does. I maybe he'd do it, did
it a few shows for that?I don't know, but I caught it
at my show awesome. Uh.And it is my least favorite Bruce Springsteen
song. Uh. And yet Icaught I caught the dice. So the
rehearsal for that show. Yes,that that Bruce Springsteen plug Show, which
was him with the new band inninety two. I want to say,

(34:36):
right, you guys would know theseguys. I've listened to their podcast on
the tours. They they have alot of nice things to say about it.
So I'm doing I was doing asitcom at the time. I was
working for someone else, and Iwas working at Warner Hollywood Studios. And
one morning I came to work andthere was a black Corvette stingray In pulling

(34:57):
into the lot in front of me, and I remember thinking, that's a
cool car. That's all. Andthen I get into work and people run
up to me because they know thatI will like hearing this. Do you
know who's on the lot? Isaid no, They said Bruce Springstein.
I said that's his car. Thatwas his car. Where is he?

(35:19):
I think he's And suddenly we hearmusic and we're like, what the hell?
And we go and the big soundstage next to us. The doors
are closed, but you can hearmusic like we follow it around, like
next to the dumpster, there's ahole where the cables are going in and
that's where the sound is coming from. And these are new songs that I

(35:40):
don't know because it's with this newband. But he's rehearsing and he's going
to be there. Like for weeks, every single day at lunch, we
would take our lunch and sit nextto this dumpster and listen at the hole
next to the dumpster. Now wehear about two weeks before this thing happens,

(36:01):
that there is going to be aconcert, a dress rehearsal for the
new tour. There's going to bea dress rehearsal. There will be two
hundred people allowed in and they're gonnabe radio contest winners, but it's gonna
be on this sound stage. Well, we work at this lot. We

(36:23):
have to know somebody who can getus in, and somebody gets us in,
somebody gives us so like I know, for days that I'm doing,
I can't sleep at night. Ican't believe I'm gonna be one of two
hundred Beeble to see Bruce Bringstey.I can't think of anything else. And
I'm driving to work that morning andI pull in and I'm just it's all

(36:47):
I could think about. The workmust have stunk that we were doing for
our jobs. But all of asudden we hear music and it's not fat,
it's really loud. What's going on? It sounds like the band.
It sounds like Springsteen. We walkoutside what they call the Elephant doors,

(37:08):
which are the giant doors to loadsets in, are wide open, and
the band is rehearsing, and wejust walk in. No one stops us.
Walk walk, walk, this inthe middle of a afternoon walk walk,
walk all the way across this townstage to the stage, and I

(37:29):
stand directly in front of Bruce Springsteen, who's maybe on a stage three feet
high, and I stand right therelooking at him. As if he's Jesus
Christ. That's awesome. And hefinishes the song and there's three of us
idiots standing there and we go wholike this? And he goes, oh,

(37:53):
you like that one? And heturns to the band. He goes,
they like it, well, dude, and he goes into an other
one, and he plays like foursongs and we're the only three people there
and we're going to go out ofour frigging minds and he goes, I'll
see you later, and he leavesbecause now it's time to get ready for

(38:13):
the show, which is not forthree hours. Okay, we don't move,
We don't move. We stood therefor three hours. Maybe we sat
down right where we were. Butan hour before the two hundred people who
deserve to be there, the concertwinners, the contest winners, they come

(38:35):
in, but we are directly infront of the microphone, his mike.
The concert begins, he comes out, he looks at us, he goes
like, oh, like still here, and well, dude, he goes,
it was the greatest night of mylife. It was the greatest.
It was so good. And hedidn't just play the new stuff, as

(38:57):
you know, he goes into youknow, of the hits. At one
point he bent down like out onone knee right in front of me,
and he just let his hand likedangle as he was singing into the mic
with the other hand, and Ijust like went to shake his hand,
and his hand was just limp bythe way. I don't know if you
know this. You've shaken his hand, right, you guys, you've all

(39:22):
done it. Aren't his hands rathersmall? Did you notice that? I
do not remember that he hasn't.The reason I know this is because when
I shook his hand, he didn'tlet go. He didn't let go,
and I didn't let go, Sofor most of the song, I mean,

(39:42):
I think it was passive on hispart, and I didn't know whether
it would be rude to let goif he was holding my hand as an
affect in the song. So nowI'm holding hands with this man that I
love, and I don't know arewe dating now? I don't know what
the what's happening. I'm holding hishand for almost the entire song. I
don't remember the song. I don'tremember. I've never told this before,

(40:06):
but I held Bruce Springstein's hand foralmost an entire song, and he didn't
seem to mind. It was soweird. Maybe Time of Love was about
phil but to the point of I'muncomfortable. Well, it's also comparing him
to Jesus Christ is interesting because thedistinction would be only Jesus is Jewish.

(40:29):
Bruce Springstey and we grew up thinkingthat name. We were trying to get
ownership of him. By the way. I saw him years later at a
party and I made that joke,Oh, I thought you were Jewish,
and he didn't crack a smile.It's like, I hate that joke.
Hey, that's that's how my wifeconvince her mind up. That's my funny.

(40:50):
He played the No Nukes shows nineteenseventy nine, September at the Garden.
It was the same one of theshows of the same night as the
Big Russia. Shan at dinner andmy life being Jewish and her mother being
Jewish, it was a big dinner. Yeah, and she's like, no,
you're not going to the show.But mom, it's Bruce Springstein and
you know kind of my father calledhim that. And he and she said,

(41:15):
if if his mother's letting him play, you can go, let me
see the show. And and sheher mom had no reaction to that.
I'd like, well, I guessyou're gonna go then that is I can
confirm that as a true story.That's hysterical, that's amazing. But with
all the sainted Bruce stories, Ijust want to tell a couple of things
that made me realize how you youdon't become Bruce. He kicked your dogs?

(41:42):
No, no, this is thedog was Elvis Costello. Because the
story is this was a year onthe Grammys when we uh um, he
was a rising, was up foreverything, and he was performing the Rising
and right as we were working onthat show. I'll never forget it,
um U. Joe Strummer from TheClash died and I am the exact right

(42:05):
age to have been. I lovedthe records that I listened to the most
when I was in high school wouldhave been The River and it would have
been London Calling by The Clash.So when he died, I went to
the guys kennerlik and Walter Miller wasa director. Kenner look the executive producer
and said we should do something forJoe Strummer. Uh, we should do

(42:27):
London Calling. And we then puttogether the Dream Group to do London Calling.
And if you remember. I'm sureyou guys have seen it, You've
seen everything, but that was thatwas my first Grammy performance. I had
the idea for and worked with Kento make it real. And I remember
it was a total thrill because Istarted with Elvis and Bruce who were my

(42:52):
high school and then Bruce, ofcourse, you know, I think suggested
Stephen, or we asked for Stephen. With him, Dave Grohl was our
new favorite and we thought he wouldbe good turned out to be great.
And then I do remember like Elvis, we talked about drummers and he goes
Pete from the Attractions, who Ijust saw with Elvis like last week here

(43:15):
in LA would be great. Heknows exactly how to do the topper kind
of stuff. And then we hadto come up with one more guy and
bass player, and I somehow justbecause they were on the show opening the
show, I think in fact,I said, how about the No Doubt
guy? He's really good, good, great bass player, and and that

(43:36):
guy I remember afterwards he gave mea kiss and held my hand like Bruce
Springstey did with Phil. He wasso happy to have been in that London
calling. But the educational thing aboutwatching that was at rehearsals. You know,
I'm I'm living out my first dreamas a former rock critic now as
a TV writer, producer type,and I'm watching every moment of the rehearsal

(43:59):
and in rehearsal that day it wasalways spectacular. It was, by the
way, the beginning of the Immemorium. There had never been an in memorium
performance at the Grammys because I thinkKennerlock had always not wanted to do that
because then you'd have to do itevery year. But it was I think
that ever since then we've done ourimmemorial performance. So you saw a list
of faces and then it ended onJoe Strummer and then London called. The

(44:22):
screen comes up and it's Bruce andElvis and Dave Grohl and they launch into
I think one of the greatest performancesI've ever been a part of as a
you know, on the Grammys.It's my favorite Grammy performance in fact.
But when when they did it inrehearsal, Bruce sat back and let Elvis
own it. I remember saying toKennerlock, Wow, how gracious, because

(44:44):
I guess, you know, Brucealready has the rising on this show.
So he's not He's letting Elvis havethis moment, like really dominate. And
then I realized, no, that'snot how you become the boss, because
when that was in dress, rehearsal, in performance, he took it.
He just became Bruce and and thatwas a sort of lesson, like the

(45:05):
greats don't become the greats by notgoing full speed. He just was getting
you know, saving it for thereal performance. I also never forget that
even Bruce Springsteen, who I isgod liked to even though we've met him
and all that, he's sort ofgodlike to me. But I'll never forget
that was a night at the Grammyswhere Norah Jones was winning like every award.

(45:28):
He was up for the Rising oneof my favorite records of all time.
Yeah, em and I'm was upfor a lot of awards and he
was a big deal. But atthe last award of the night, it
was probably Album of the Year,I think, but it could have been
Record of the Year I'm I'm backstagebecause they've both performed pretty recently and they're
both right next to me and Kenwhen the last and all night it's been

(45:52):
Norah Jones, Norah Jones when thelast record, when the last award went
to and the Grammy goes to NorahJones, I was standing with the two
of them, Eminem and Bruce,and they both walked out like very not
happy, And I remember thinking itmeant it made me feel more The Grammys
felt more important because even Bruce Springsteencared and frankly should have won. In

(46:15):
my personal opinion, that's a legendaryalbum by any standard. Yeah, we'll
tell the story about that. Therising sort of began. We both Phil
and I worked on the Tribute toHeroes telethon and Bruce was in New York,
but we were in La and Upand I had written the intro for

(46:37):
Tom Hanks to introduce Bruce at thatto set up the whole show, My
City of Ruins. That's right.Do you remember I remember Phil saying something
to me, which this is whywe're talking about Bruce today. To me,
you said something like, I wouldmuch rather hear from Bruce right now
than whoever's in the White House.I think we know that. I think

(46:59):
it was George right, Uh,well, of course, yes, yes,
uh, George, But then thatalbum was him speaking to us.
It was I've never seen anything.Can you name an album I mean,
David, you know you seem toknow music. Um, an album that
was so uh of topical, thatwas so about an event ven the whole

(47:28):
album. But an album that hasthat speaks what's funny? It's not funny.
What's amazing? Is my City ofroy in Ruins? Yeah was you
guys would know the whole story.It wasn't about it wasn't about it,
but it was just perfect, right, But it was perfect for you.
But to me it is we hadseen it in two thousand, yeah,
yeah, you already h He debutedit in uh In at one of the

(47:51):
holiday shows and down a convention hallin Asbury Park and the Smber. Well,
that's that's his genius because even thoughyou could point to every word of
the Rising Album as having to dowith nine to eleven, it also works
without it. It's because he knowsnot to name it by name. And

(48:14):
that's what he did with City ofRuins, which is why you can then
repurpose it even though it's about AsburyPark for exactly this moment of nine to
eleven. Yeah, and then therewere a couple of songs that were actually
that predated nine to eleven as well. In addition to the City of Ruins,
it was further on up the roadNothing Man, and even Waiting on
a Sunny Day was from like twoyears earlier. I didn't know that My

(48:37):
favorite secret favorite Springsteen song is onthe Rising, and I bet it's I
Know you guys love. Like myfavorite song on board in the USA is
a Downbound Train, which I thinkone of you guys love also at least,
yes, but my favorite, butmy favorite song maybe as a because

(48:57):
one of the things Phil is Ithink all how is a producer, Flynn.
I don't know if you write orwhat you do if you do other
things professionally, But to me,as a writer, I always have looked
to Bruce Springsteen as the ultimate modelof great writing. Like you can half
the lessons I've learned. Number oneis a writer. And the song um
You're missing on that record that Iwas just going to mention yours works on

(49:24):
so many levels. Yes, it'sthe most perfect lyric even it is minimalism.
Where is it? Everything is everythingyou know but you're missing that whole?
Yes, it captures what and againI we've all been through nine to
eleven in different ways and lost peoplefurther and further away from us. But

(49:45):
I thought it spoke to loss,the totality of loss, like literally,
there's no better lyric to me.And I thought that was my favorite words
in the history of popular culture,no joke. He's my favorite. He
and Dylan are my absolute favorites.But then there was a line in the
Broadway show which Phil you should weshould talk about the Broadway show that show,

(50:07):
when he talked about Clarence, itwas one of the most mind blowing
things I've ever heard, because becauseI was a kid who came in looking
at the Born to Run cover andthinking, oh, these are just two
childhood buddies who've made you know,history together, their their partnership. But
when he talked about the knowledge hehad of what Clarence and he meant and

(50:32):
the gorgeous there was a line likewhat I can't remember the exact phrase,
and I'll just say there was somethinglike a modest version of I don't remember
the exit. Do you remember whathe says about Clarence in there? It's
something. It was the most profoundthing I've ever heard. Was it actually
God's Did he actually say God's work? Or we're doing our own modest version

(50:54):
of God's work. Okay, itwas something like that. You know,
well, that isn't yea our ownmodest version of God's work. There's another
quote from that show that made mecry, and I put it as the
little quote that you put in frontof your own book when things mean something

(51:16):
to you. And at the Idon't know if you guys, remember at
the end of the Broadway show hetalks about he's thanking the audience and he
says, I hope I've been agood traveling companion. And that kills me
because that's really what he is inour lives, especially for those of us
who have followed him for decades andlistened to him in the car every single

(51:40):
day. He is your traveling companionthrough life. I think about that very
literally because I remember again in myfirst rush, the first weeks. Maybe
it was okay, it was darkness, because I remember being in my room,
a kid with a tennis racket,listening obsessively, hearing Candy's room and

(52:02):
thinking there was a girl I liked, my first girl I ever liked.
And I didn't know what Candy's roomwas about, but it sounded dirty and
fun, and I needed to getinto. It wasn't Candy's room, it
was Laura's room. I think Brucemight have gotten me less innocent earlier because
of Candy's room, But then Ihave to say he didn't help me at

(52:22):
all in this regard. But cuttwo and you talked about Western Stars.
Yes, these guys, because I'velistened to their podcast all the time.
When you talk about Moonlight Motel,Moonlight Motel, which I think is one
of the most important songs and oneof the most powerful things he's ever done,
and I think, all right,this is a guy who is taking

(52:44):
you from innocence to experience literally,like that's a song about that love,
that first love and being the oldman with regrets, drunk possibly suicidal at
the spot where you lost your innocentAnd I thought, he's taken. I'm
married thirty years, you're married morethan that. Oh God, yes he's

(53:06):
taken. He's been our muse aboutlove and life for from innocence to the
experience too. Well, that's trueto whatever the hell we are now.
Yes, yeah, he really capturedthat so well on Listening Stars and how
how called it devastating on our podcast, And that's it really is such an

(53:28):
emotional you know, gut punch atthe end of that song. And yeah,
it pretty much kind of sums upwhat would happen at that point in
time of your life after you've lostyour your main love. Uh, tell
tell us your favorite each of you. Do you have a favorite song?
A favorite Springsteen song? They're likenumb but the Brave, Right, it's

(53:52):
up there. I you know,I guess the number one song of all
all time would happen for me?Would have to be would have to be
Backstreets, which kind of sounds kindof cliche, but it's but that's what
it is. I have, Ican be. I can beat you at
cliche, but go ahead. Howit changes from day to day? It
does. I also say Backstreets mostdays. Thunder Road of course. Now

(54:14):
I am a huge, like David, a fan of Tunnel, especially yes
title track. Yes, so thatalbum means a lot to me. I
also love the concerts from Tunnel ofLove. Those those recordings are awesome because
the horns are so great on ittoo, Right, And it was such
a unique tour. Yes, itwas so different than what he had done

(54:37):
three or four years ago on theUSA tour. Right, it was they
were just totally different animals, andit was Tunnel was my first tour,
so I always gravitate towards those recordingsas well. Yeah, and I can
just listen. I mean that waslike as a bootleg collector. I actually
had every show from that tour atone point. Actually I still do,

(54:57):
but that was the first one Ifocused on, you know, collect the
Yeah, did you want to sayyour favorite song? You know, my
favorite song would probably be Tunnel ofLove It. I have others, but
like hal I was saying, itwill change day to day. Like there
when I was into Western Stars NonStop, it would I would say it was

(55:21):
one of those I would say myI generally my go to one is You're
Missing because I think it's it justdestroys me. It's so not fussy.
It's like I I fell in lovewith Dylan and Springsteen at the same time
just because of my age. Soit's like it was Blood on the Tracks
and Born to Run, and thosewere like the records that made me love

(55:43):
language and early I loved as ayoung man, the flood of words that
you would hear on you know,greetings on the greeting stuff up through Born
to Run, but then I thinkwhen he hit darkness and he sort of
decided to go Hemmingway or Steinbeck onus, I actually think that stuff is
more powerful to me, less ismore kind of thing. And I've had

(56:06):
this weird life as a writer whereI've had personal advice from like Dylan going
use nuns and verbs, no adjectives, like about liner notes for him.
Uh. And it's even even looklisten about Bruce having Bruce Springstein tell you
not two paragraphs one. He didn'teven tell me which one. He just
goes pick one. I can't liveup to two. Uh. You know,

(56:29):
I wondered, do you remember yourinteraction with him? Another show I
did with him that was a momentwas when he it was a show to
end racism in America. It clearlydid not work exactly. Do you remember
coming to that and he did hisI was that was at the shrine,

(56:50):
right, That's right, Yes,at the shrine and we were rehearsal and
I was working with Kenner Look onthat show, and he did a song
that had gotten him in some troublewith certain you know, police benevolence organizations.
You know, it was kind ofa gutsy thing to revisit, I
thought, and my memory said hedid it kind of with an all star.
I think he was joined John Legendand Pink and Altar Legend. Yeah,

(57:14):
John Legend did the song with him. Uh. And it was but
I remember you talking to him,I thought, yes, yes, what
was that like? It was shortbecause I was with Lynette, Lynette Corolla,
Adam Carolla's wife you might know fromthe fan community, who's a beautiful
woman. And all I have totell you is that I said high and

(57:37):
his attention for some reason when toLynette over me. So he's not a
saint. He didn't help Phil's hand. He found a better hand to hold
onto. Yes, yes, Uh. By the way, he also at
another occasion where I was at adinner fundraiser or something and he was at
the next table, and I wasfreaking out a little bit. I had

(57:58):
brought my daughter really to this,and she was about twenty twenty one,
and I go, he's he's goingin the bathroom. He's gonna pass right
bar at table. And she saidher, you're gonna say hi. I
said, I have to. Imean I have to. He's gonna he's
gonna rook right by. I said, Hello, Bruce. Can I say
hi to you? And he saidof course, And I started talking.

(58:19):
He said, and who are youto? My daughter started talking to her,
and I'm like, I can't bewith beautiful girls next to the man.
This is not the way to doit. Well, I want to
say, Bruce, it was myhand you held. That's that's when you
do the podcast with me and nota beautiful exactly right. In the off

(58:39):
chance that we'll get Bruce one day, maybe he'll talk to speaking of women,
another sort of interview. You hadBruce on your show. We've had
Steve. We have not been luckyenough to have Bruchette. Would you accept
Bruce. Yes, I've done theI've done the record, I've done to

(59:00):
the E Street Radio show a bunchof times. Uh, that's as close
as I've gotten. I've d J. That's it, um talking about women.
When there was many years ago,I was working on an Elvis Presley
special. Not with Elvis. Thisis like you know, in the nineties,

(59:21):
or whenever she put out whenever Pattyput out her album with a song
called looking for Elvis? Do youremember Patty song? That was actually two
thousand and seven, Okay, twothousand and seven, I'm working on Oh
no, they know Patties. Sothat was a repository of a lot of
information. Well, so what happens? Yeah, I love that record,

(59:44):
and I think oh, I wrotethe bio for that record Patty for some
reason, I don't know, throughsome Steve Jordan or someone. I don't
think actually someone she asked me towrite. I interviewed her and wrote the
sort of essay that accompanied the record, and I love So I fell in
love with Looking for Elvis, andI fell in love with Patty too.

(01:00:07):
She's very nice and I had beena fan of you know, since I
danced with her for ten seconds atthe South Side Johnny Show. And in
any case, we're doing this ElvisPresley special on ABC, and I said,
can we use the song looking forElvis? And she said yes,
And she goes, do you wantme to perform Looking for Elvis on the
show? I said absolutely. Thenthis is how it must go in their

(01:00:31):
world. Sometimes ABC said we'll payfor this. We'll go to Asbury Park
and film this at the convention isit called the Convention Hall? And so.
But they said, we'll do that, but Bruce has to be in
the band, which now Bruce wasin the band for that album. But
it was this interesting thing where Iwas sent to Atlantic City. I'll never

(01:00:52):
forget it because I stay. I'msorry Asbury Park I was sent. I
gotta get this right. There's ahotel in Asbury Park next to the convention
Center. Do you guys know AsburyPark pretty well? The hotel. I
was stayed there several times. Yes, the hotel. I had this.

(01:01:13):
I stayed over the night before wewere filming, and I had this.
It's an old, beautiful hotel righton the water, and I had this
weird feeling. And I called myfather. I said, Dad, the
hotel had been owned by Johnny Cashat one point. It had a lot
of history. But I said,Dad, I have this weird feeling about
this hotel. Did we ever cominghere as a kid? He goes,
No, I was stationed there whenI was training for World War Two,

(01:01:34):
And my dad said it was likehaunted by you know, with a lot
of memories of World War Two.But in any case, we got there
and it was the band was likeNils and the band, you know it
was it was Bruce, but Brucenot wanting to steal focus like was hiding
behind plants. Literally, it waslike the director for ABC was like,

(01:01:54):
Bruce, can you come a littleout? And he was like, and
what the dynamic must be? Itmust be complicated because he did not want
to steal focus from Patty's song.And that's always must be an interesting tension.
But that I will always love lookingfor Elvis that song. Well,
if memory serves, he was kindof like in the background, just playing

(01:02:15):
harmonica, So it was never inany real focus on him except just in
the as I said, in thebackground. Yeah, well he was.
That was very intentional by him.He was hiding out. He did not
he did not want to get alot of focus. H but it was
It was still incredibly Uh. Wewere incredibly great. And we mentioned south

(01:02:37):
Side south Side. Johnny sang thetheme song to a show that you worked
on called down the Shore. That'sright, and that was a great I
love that show, man, Isthat right? That show? Wow?
This deep cuts today? Oh?Man, I saw that. I watched
that show like every summer night too. Man. We had Pam Avon on
our show. Who was on thatshow until she was fired? Do you

(01:03:00):
remember who else was on that show? That was Anna Gunn who was became
the wife on Breaking Bad. Doyou remember An You're kidding No, Oh,
that's so nice. Yeah, shewas so great. And my friend
lu Schneider was on the show wholater became a writer on Raymond and one
of my best friends. And TomMcGowan is one of my best friends from

(01:03:22):
college and he was in the show. And it was I always said it
was the precursor to friends. It'sjust we didn't get any friends. By
the way. Okay, here's acrazy story. How you are a producer,
right you? And you've done inTV and film? Yes? And
Ellie Canner, who I've made threemovies with, cast The Friends Pilot.

(01:03:45):
I have one crazy story that maynot be publishable or airable on a podcast,
but I'm gonna go for it.You did a movie with a young
lady named Biju Phillips. Is thatcorrect? That is correct? Okay,
I will just tell you my beesYou Philip story. I went to interview
her for something for Rolling Stone orUS magazine. I don't know what it

(01:04:08):
was. Joan Winner sent me tointerview her. All I can tell you
is it was two days of interviews. Day one she asked me to take
her to the mall and Malibu andshe wanted to buy a dog. Then
she couldn't find her wallet, sowho asked me to pay for the dog.
So to this day, I boughta dog this do you know?

(01:04:30):
I also bought a dog for Bees. Your fellow, you're out, you're
making scam. No, I amnot ruby her. We were shooting at
the pound. We were shooting thismovie Wake, and we were shooting at
the pound and she fell in lovewith a dog that was in a cage
that they told her was going tobe euthanized. And she said to me,

(01:04:56):
we've got to get this dog out. We can't let this dog die.
And I'm producing the movie. Imean, as you guys know,
well, I mean, you've gotmany many issues going on, and now
I'm like, I've got to getBees you the dog. And we wound
up. We spoke to the rightpeople, and she had the dog for
years. I don't know if thedog is still alive because it's over a
decade ago. But yes, Ialso bought a dog for Bees that scene

(01:05:20):
that we both bought. Okay,and here's the part of the story.
I tried to hand in the expenseof a dog. Just to bring it
full circle, I bought Bruce Springsteenhis dog. That's you his hand as
well, Yeah, held his hand. Uh, you've been to the new
shows. I'm guessing to the newSpringstein shows. Yes, yeah, we

(01:05:45):
went. We were at opening openingnight in Florida. You flew there.
You are? You are bruce Heads, so you will fly? Are you
haven't seen any of the what dobruce Heads call themselves? Do they have
a name? Fans? Well,there's a group we're not really members of
it. There's a group called springNuts, which are actually this this is
really embraced, and members of thesethree bands have embraced, but we're not.

(01:06:10):
That's a group that you're drained.We have not joined that. But
by the way, my favorite song, why don't we go out on this?
Yes, we'll play We'll play myfavorite song when we're done. That's
how you'll know what it is.I know that people like this song.
I don't have any any kind ofinsecurity about choosing this song. But we

(01:06:30):
want to thank you both. Wehope to see you soon, either at
a show, or talk about ashow again, or just have lunch anytime
sounds good to us. Thank youso much. For having us and a
pleasure that's not so much fun,for doing this show. We're gonna buy
you each your dog. I alreadyhave one nice you could use another.

(01:06:53):
You look like you could use anotherdog. All right, here, here
we go people. The song,by the way, is thunder Road Unfamiliar.

(01:07:18):
The Naked Lunch is a podcast byPhil Rosenthal and David Wilde. Theme
song and music by Brad Paisley,Produced by Will Sterling. Executive produced by

(01:07:40):
Phil Rosenthal, David Wilde, andour consulting journalist is Pamela Chellen. If
you enjoyed the show, share itwith a friend. But if you can't
take my word for it, takePhils and don't forget to leave a good
rating and review we like five stars. Thanks for listening to Naked Lunch.
A Lucky Bastard's production. M