John Oates

After feeling "Out Of Touch" for too long, David catches up with his longtime friend John Oates to discuss John's strong new solo album "Oates," and so much more of his long life in music, both with Daryl Hall and John Oates -- the most successful duo in music history, Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and Songwriters Hall of Fame inductees --  and as a solo artist. Hear great stories about everyone from John's longtime neighbor Hunter S. Thompson and longtime bandmate T-Bone Wolk, and so much more. Plus, a big question from another Rock & Roll Hall of Famer, Jimmy Jam. For more on John, go to https://johnoates.com. To learn more about building community through food and "Somebody Feed the People," visit the Philanthropy page at philrosenthalworld.com.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Well, hi everybody, this is Phil.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
I wish I could join you for today's naked lunch,
but you're in very good hands with mister.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
David Wilde because he's got a friend of his on named.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
John Oates of Hall of Oaks.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yes, that's right back, John Oates, and I am leaving
to go on the next.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Part of my tour. I hope you'll join me there.
Phil Rosenthalworld dot com is where you get hicks. But
until I see you again, my friends, enjoy naked Lunch
with David Wilde with a special guest, John Oates.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
Let's build the means to the fat. Food for thought,
jokes on tap, talking.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
With a mouthful, having fun.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
BEA's the King, Humble Pie servant up class, lovely, the
dressing all the side.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
It's naked lunch.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Clothing optional.

Speaker 5 (01:15):
Feel in my arms up again, John?

Speaker 6 (01:40):
I want to begin by asking how does it feel
to be back in my arms again? Metaphorically speaking only
because can you tell the nice people how we just
spent a lovely dinner together.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
We did, and you know what, that was a real
nice surprise. It was a fantastic surprise because, first of all,
the b MI Troubadour Awards, which was the event we
were at, is one of my favorite events. It's one
of the best events in Nashville.

Speaker 6 (02:04):
And last year.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, last year, I was honored and it was fantastic
to be part of that and then to be sitting
next to you right, you know, directly in front of
the amplifiers.

Speaker 6 (02:18):
And John Fogerty, that was amazing. Yeah, our table was
I have to say, I am not usually in the
A number one prime location, maybe the worst seat back
to the speakers in stage, but with John Fogerty, Julie Fogerty,
their incredibly talented sons, Lany Wilson, John Oates, and your

(02:40):
lovely wife Amy, it was.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
A pretty good, pretty cool. It's a good table. It
was a very good table. Clay Bradley and Mike O'Neil,
the good folks at BMI took care of us.

Speaker 6 (02:50):
Yes, And it was the Troubadour Awards, And ironically we
were supposed to do this at Phil's house a few
weeks ago. You were here to play the Troubadoor to
kick off your amazing new record OATS and then you
were not feeling well that the morning before, so we
couldn't do it. Then and then I end up with
you at a different Troubadour event in Nashville, so that

(03:14):
was I've tracked you down so you can't avoid me.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Well, no, I'm really sorry that we didn't get together
in LA, but I'm actually happy we're doing this and
uh yeah, and it was great to just hang with
you that night. And uh, by the way, your your
speech was fantastic. You uh you really you did take
you did take all the good the good stories away
from John.

Speaker 6 (03:34):
Yes, yes, I should. I should explain that like at
this event, there's amazing musicians. Uh you know, we had
everyone from Billy Gibbons from zz Top you know, uh,
Lany Wilson, just all sorts of great artists and somehow
in the middle of it, they have a speaker most years,
and I don't know how I got the gig, but
our friend Clay, who's a wonderful guy, when he called me,

(03:57):
I said, listen, with all due respect, I think you
can do a lot better than me. And yet I
don't know. I didn't get out of the gig. And
then it's a lot of pressure because I don't have
a lot of hits or talent, so I had to
write a speech, and I'm so glad. I don't I
don't feel other than stealing John's best stories, I don't
feel I let him down too badly, not at all.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
I think your speech was great and it was really
it was funny and engaging.

Speaker 6 (04:23):
So no, no, you hit it out of the park.
I think was good and about we'll move on from
one John to another. But John Fogerty at the end
of this night performed and I got to you know,
for you, you know, he is a generation ahead of you,
and here he is out there performing And is it

(04:44):
me or did he sound better than ever? Somehow? Having
celebrated his eightieth birthday, he rocked the night, didn't he.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
He rocked hard and his sons were right there with him.
And I love what he's doing with this. It's become
a family band for him, which is really really cool.
And yeah, I mean the guy is a he's a
real he's a great rock musician. And he just he
turned I remember in the middle of his I think
he did about three songs. In the middle of one

(05:13):
of the songs, he went back to the amp and
just turned it up. He cranked it up even louder,
and it was like, and it was loud. My good
buddy Guthrie Chapp who was in the band, the house
band that night, he told me, he said, watch out
when he gets up there, it's going to be loud.

Speaker 6 (05:30):
Really no, And by the way, I took my sons
and my wife to see him at the Bowl I
think a year or two ago, and it's remarkable. I
did a Grammy event, Grammy Museum event with John and
I think that's one of the first times his son
started accompanying him. And yet he has somehow turned everything
that was rough in his story, like losing his publishing,

(05:54):
you know, falling out with a brother, you know, having
that sort of break in a family. Somehow this guy
had has gotten his songs back, has made a great
family band, and it's just so inspiring for me. And
I'm not even an artist, but I'm sure it's inspiring
for a real artist like you.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Oh yeah, I mean his story about how he fought
to get his rights back is obviously you know, if
you know anything about me, you will know that that
hit home for me in a big way. So yeah,
very very very impressed with his you know, his his
whole career. It's been a long long career. He's been
around since the sixties and it's been you know, it's incredible.

Speaker 6 (06:33):
And let's talk about us. Because of that's, of course
why people are listening in. And I don't know to
what extent you are such an important artist in my life.
My first concert with a girl at the Palladium on
your Least favorite album tour, The Beauty on a Backstreet
Tour was my first date with Laura Wharton. I went

(06:58):
both nights. I looked the dates. It is December fifth
and sixth, and I went both nights because I showed
up on the fifth and I was dropped off by
you know, my parents had dropped me off with these
two girls and I got to the front and they said,
your tickets are for tomorrow. So I had a call
an uncle who took me out to dinner with my

(07:19):
two dates, and then I came back the next night
from New Jersey to see you at the Palladium. Life
changing show. Part of the reason I do what I do,
whatever it is that I do for a living, is
because Hall and Oates turned me on to soul music,
and through you, I went backwards and ended up, you know,
getting into smokey Robinson, Stevie Wonder, all these other great

(07:41):
artists who I've worked with. So I owe you a lot.
But from your point of view, are you aware of,
like I think back, like to all these times when
I bothered you and spoken to over the years, Are
you aware to the extent to which I've been how
important you are in my life?

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Well? No, I'm not that much aware of how important,
but I am aware of how long we've known each
other and how long you know, we've been in this
crazy business. So yeah, I mean it's uh, hey, listen,
we're still around, We're here, we are, We're doing slightly
different things but actually still the same. Yes, same same,
but different, as they like to say in Japan. Uh.

(08:18):
You know interesting that you said that beauty on the
backstreet because you're you're one hundred percent right. It is
my least favorite hall and its album.

Speaker 5 (08:24):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
And I cannot, for the life of red remember what
type of live show we played to support that album. Uh,
it's completely blanked out in my mind. It's as if
it's as if I took one of those you know,
anesthesia you know when you when you're getting an operation.

Speaker 6 (08:42):
And because it was so painful, I don't.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Know whether it was just painful or just not you know,
not just not fun. Uh. And it's just I actually
don't remember what band we had, who who was in
the band at that exact time. I do remember some
of the songs, and I didn't like them, so I
don't know what we were doing. Hopefully we played some
earlier hits and some earlier songs from some of the

(09:07):
earlier albums.

Speaker 6 (09:08):
It was, it was. It was, by the way. I
think I've seen Holland Oates along with Bruce Springsteen and
Southside Johnny maybe the most of all the acts I've
ever seen, so it was always a great show. I
do remember the opening act was a guy named Richard
Supa who for years. I remember that the pitch we
made Richard super jokes in my friend group for years

(09:31):
after that. But then many I didn't get to meet you.
Of course, I was just a kid in the crowd
trying to get my first kiss, which I with your
help with whatever you did. I think there was a
song on Beauty on a Backstreet called Bigger than Both
of Us, which was not the you know, the in
an album title, but I believe I might have gotten
a kiss from Laura Wharton during that song, so that

(09:54):
you know you helped.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
You're welcome. Yeah, you're welcome.

Speaker 6 (09:58):
Well, it takes village to get me kissed. Then I
was supposed to meet you the first time I did
a little research. I was supposed to meet you on
the second fourteenth of February nineteen eighty two, when you
were playing Ithaca College. I was right going to Cornell
and for the Cornell Deli Sun. I was told I

(10:20):
was going to get to interview my heroes Hall and Oates.
I didn't. I got there and they said, sorry, the
guys are too tired. You get to talk to Aldo Nova,
which was the opening act of that show. So my
first interview of a band was an artist was Aldo Nova,
not holl Of Oates. Then I followed you around like
a deadhead for the rest of the dates. I think

(10:42):
of the next two tours. I spent my college years
following Hall and Oates around, in part because voices we
started starting this episode, We're going to get to your
new songs in a second, but we started out with
how does it feel to me back? Because I went
back the other night on headphones, my wife sleeping next
to me, waking her up intermittently listening to Voices and

(11:04):
going freaking out how amazing that record still is. I
think it's my I always think of Abandon Lunchonette as
my favorite thing anyone's ever done, but Voices unbelievably great
and important album, and it was one of the things
that propelled my interest in music. So thanks for that too.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Well, you went from the ridiculous to the sublime. I
totally agree with you. Voices is one of my favorite albums,
and it's an album that's very important. Probably not as well.
You know, people don't understand how important that album was
to the career of Darryl and I because that's the
album where we produced ourselves for the first time, and

(11:44):
that really set the tone and set the precedent for
what happened in the eighties. And then everything in the
eighties really just was just a expanded from that Voices
album and got better and better and better, and of
course the you know, the commercial success and the songs
and the band and the productions really just they really

(12:09):
they grew from the seed of the Voices album.

Speaker 6 (12:12):
Yeah, for people who don't know, you started out working
with one of the top ten producers of all time.
A Reef Martin, who you know, your first two records
for Atlantic, you know, an unbelievably great guy to start with,
and you know and certainly abandoned. Lunchenette reflects that you
went on to work with I think you basically gave

(12:33):
David Foster his start as a producer. Yes, you worked
with Chris Bond. You know that seems like that's a
fascinating and strange escapade. David Foster, I will tell you,
has consistently found me to annoy him because I so
love Along the Red Ledge, which was one of his

(12:53):
or maybe his first like outside rock production. And every
time I tell him that, he goes, do you not
like anything else I've ever done? And I, well, I
really like her on the Ledge. And just to show
you you mentioned Japan. My wife and I were in
Japan recently, my first trip there, and I only agreed
to go if I could go to Tower Records and

(13:14):
and see. One of the first records I picked up
was the Ecstatic album in the Japanese edition, which is
I know, I don't I bet not one of your
absolute favorites, but I absolutely still love it.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
So uh that was it was an experiment wasn't It
was a flawed experiment, but it was you know, our our, our,
our kind, our attempt to tap into the disco groove
thing that was happening and combine it with our sensibility.

(13:48):
And it didn't quite work. But there's some cool songs
on it.

Speaker 6 (13:51):
Well, speaking of cool songs, let's talk about your your
new album, Uh the Oats, which you you managed to.
You kept it simple with the title, but it almost
it feels like it has a sense of being even
though you've done many solo records, it feels like a
new beginning and a sort of statement of who you are.

(14:14):
Can you tell me about you know, how did this record?
Because you've been productive and you've been exploring Americana, But
it does feel like musically, this is sort of like
staking your own claim to in part, staking your claim
to some of your musical past in terms of exploring
soul and pop and rock in a really cool way.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, well, I mean, you're right. You know, I started
out as a folk blues, predominantly acoustic guitar player before
I met Darryl, and that's kind of what I brought
to the table when we first met. And after all
those years of working together. When when I branched out

(14:59):
on my own to do some solo work, I really
didn't know who I was, who I was as an artist,
a solo artist, and I had to discover that. And
the way I discovered it was by going back to
the beginning and I went back to the music I
made prior to meeting Darryl. And that was facilitated and
by my move to Nashville and coincided with my move

(15:21):
to Nashville and with the great Americana musicians who I
became friends with and enabled me to almost rediscover myself.
And that was something that really I needed to do.
And I did that, you know. And I did that
through a number of albums, three or four albums, and
I did an album called Reunion about two years ago,

(15:43):
and that album I think was the final expression, or
the at least the best expression of that return to
my earliest, earliest roots. And then having done that, I
didn't think there was anything left to do in that space.
And I I wrote a song with a guy named
Devin Gilfillian who's from Philly and he's a young R

(16:05):
and B singer. He's fantastic. I met him in Nashville,
and I just had this sense, I don't know, it
was just a gut feeling that he and I would
hit it off. And he came over. We wrote a
song called Mending.

Speaker 6 (16:16):
Which, by the way, give your wife an assist your
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
It's a great story because when he came over, you know,
you never know what you're going to do when you meet,
especially when you try to do a writing session with
someone who's a virtual stranger. You don't know how it's
going to go or what direction you're going to head.
And when he came over, my wife Amy had a
deck of tarot cards and when she held it out,
he picked one and it said Mending. And I said, well,

(16:41):
there's our song. Let's go do it. We literally walked
in the room and did it and it flowed. It
was natural, and it was a total and I wanted
to tap into this kind of a Philly thing that
we both shared, this Philly musical soul R and B
groove oriented DNA that we both shared, him, of course,
from a younger generation and me from my you know,

(17:04):
for my generation. And it really clicked and it was
comfortable and it was cool. And as soon as we
did that I said, Damn, I forgot about I forgot
about this side of my my musical life. Let me
let me go think about this for a second. And
I picked up the electric guitar, put the acoustic away
for a while, and I started started grooving and started

(17:27):
and it really was the template for the Oats album.
And I realized, you know what, this will be fun.
It'll be fun to get back into the groove and
to explore, you know, re explore the that kind of
seventies vintage soul thing that I love so much that
I had really kind of just you know, put on
the side while I was exploring my past.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
I will never like some to the glue has Brodamn in.

Speaker 6 (18:02):
Yours Smith Bending, I want to ask you about that theme,
the mending, you know it. I have no idea if
this is in your heart at all, but I think

(18:23):
about it in terms of as someone who's been around
a lot of bands, a lot of groups, you know.
I often think in every group there has to be
someone who is a mender, a healer, a unifier someone,
And I always think about it. In having dealt with Crosby, Stills,
Nash and Young. I saw Neil Young last night at

(18:43):
the Hollywood Bowl. I always think, Okay, you really need
Graham Nash in that group for many years, he kind
of held it together because he had the smallest ego
and still had, you know, a lot of talent. And
I often think in Holland, oats do you do you
in your over the years? Have you been a mender
in your in your own group dynamics?

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (19:06):
You know, I think I tried, uh it really now.
You know, I wouldn't take I wouldn't want to take
some sort of credit for being a mender. What I
would say is that, you know, you know, in terms
of the dynamic between Darryl and I, you know, if
you want to take a little bit more of a zen,

(19:26):
you know, kind of look at it. Uh. You know,
you can't have a you can't have a beautiful sunset
without a horizon. And you know, I think I was
more like the horizon.

Speaker 6 (20:00):
I will say that. You know, we did have Darryl
on the podcast and I asked him for his perspective
on Phil and I being not sort of a duo.
You know, I'm I'm a co host, but you know

(20:21):
we've been friends forever, and I said, like, any advice
on being in a duo with someone and not driving
each other crazy. And he said, I don't think I'm
the one to offer that advice. I don't think I
have any wisdom in that area. So you know, I'm
not going to beg you for wisdom on how to
be in a duo, but if you have any, please
share it.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
No, my only wisdom that I could share is it
I've got a lot of experience and I I really,
I really think I know how to work with people.
I think I learned how to collaborate and to be
a team player, and I think that was really something
that that's kind of was my role, I believe in

(21:05):
a lot of ways, and it's held me in good
stead because now when I meet people that i'm working
with or I don't know, I think I always look
for a way to find some common ground between us,
whether it's a personally or creatively. And that's perhaps something
I learned well.

Speaker 6 (21:21):
By the way on the new record, I was unfamiliar,
which I'm ashamed to say about Lawrence until I heard
Enough is Enough, which I love And can you tell
me a little bit about that song and Lawrence, who
apparently are a big deal. You know, and I just
I somehow missed it.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Well, yeah, they are, they are, They're They're a big young,
a young big deal. You know, I'm sitting right here
in the chair that I wrote enough is Enough in
in this exact spot. And it was last year. It
was out here in Colorado, and just really, you know,

(21:59):
just I was writing a lot I had. I was
on a writing role for the Oats album. I started
writing a bunch of songs and I felt like I
was on a real role. And I started just for
inspiration purposes. I started listening to a lot of different music,
a lot of younger music, a younger artists, and I
found Lawrence and I really immediately gravitated to them. There

(22:20):
was something about, I think, the fact that they're New Yorkers,
the fact that they they're they're you know, they're to me,
they're everything that's good that should be good about young pop.
They they write their own songs. They they're great singers,
they're great instrumentalists. Clyde Is in particular, is a I

(22:41):
think he's a genius. Uh Grace, He's one of the
greatest vocalists I've ever heard in my life. Uh. They
don't use tracks they don't use samples, they everything's organic.
They have a great band, so it immediately appealed to
me on a lot of levels. And then I started
listening to their songs and I kind of kind of
challenged myself. I said, damn, I said, I wish I
could write a song that had the enthusiasm and the

(23:04):
joy and the kind of just this loose, kind of
fun feel. And I felt it need the album needed it,
because I had already had a group of songs, and
I said, I'm going to try to write a song
it sounds like them. And I started writing the song
enough is Enough, and it really started sound low to me.
It sounded exactly like them, and I thought, well, this

(23:24):
is kind of weird or weirdly good. And then I
got to the second verse and I didn't I couldn't
come up with anything. And I was listening to the song,
one of their songs, one of my favorite songs of theirs,
called Don't Lose Sight, and it was there the lyrically
they were talking about don't lose sight of what's important
about music, don't let the business kick you in the

(23:45):
ass and you know, and turn you off, And I said,
wait a minute, that's exactly what I'm writing about, except
I'm writing about it from my older personal perspective. And
I said, so we're writing about the same thing in
two different ways. So I took the or second one
of their some of their lyrics, and I recrafted them
into my second verse, which was kind of weird because

(24:06):
I was essentially I was kind of sampling them in
a sense. And then I said, well, I can't, like
just take their lyrics. So as soon as I did it,
I really liked what was happening, and so I I
got a hold of them and I said, look, you guys,
I hope you don't mind, but I used some of
your words in my song. Check it out, and I'm
happy to share my publishing and the co writing and

(24:28):
whatever it is, whatever whatever it takes for this to happen,
because I really want to, you know, want to want
to work with you. And they love the song and
we became friends, and then I went to New York
and recorded with them. We put their vocals and Clyde
played keyboards on it. And it was funny because we
went back to the Hit Factory, which is one of
the first places Daryl and I came to when you

(24:48):
were talking about the Red Ledge when we came back
to New York after recording in LA in the mid
seventies with David Foster and Hit Factory is one of
the first places we came back to, so it was
kind of a really cool, you know, full circle moment.
Uh and yeah, and I and I just think they're great.
I've had a chance to play live with them a
few times, sit in with them, and they're just great.

Speaker 6 (25:11):
And let's hear a little bit of Enough's enough, Enough
is enough. It's really a great song.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Who it ain't interesting, it's crazy, so.

Speaker 5 (25:23):
Sad, bad.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Enough you play it.

Speaker 6 (25:39):
You mentioned playing with people and being good at that.
You played with some people who I you know, one
person who I absolutely loved and knew even better than
I knew. You know, No, you and Darryl is uh
T bone Wolke. Who was he was you talk about
like a mendor or a connector. He would call me
and or I think it was before texting. He would

(26:02):
call me when he was in town a lot, and
I would see him and I'd come meet you guys
at different shows, and he was an amazing guy. But
also I think the thing I want to make sure
people realize he was one of the most incredible musicians
I ever met. In fact, one day, I think I
was talking about hip hop with him and I mentioned,

(26:22):
like how I loved the song the Breaks by Curtis Blow,
Like that was the first hip hop song I ever
loved because and I think he goes, yeah, I played
bass on that kind of humbly, and I'm like, you,
you funny white guy in a cap you played bass
on the Breaks like one of the first hip hop hits.
He was an incredible guy. I just wondered if you
have any stories about you know what a great musician

(26:45):
and character he was.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, I have a lot of stories, and you don't
have enough time. One of the greatest t bone tom
t bone, Will was one of the one of the
great human beings, and not only you know, in addition
to be a great person, he was without a doubt,
and I will say this, I think he was the
best musician I ever met. I think he was the

(27:08):
best musician I've ever had the honor to play with.
In the many many years we played together, I don't
think I ever heard him make a mistake. And if
he even if he made a mistake, it was so
musically good that it wasn't a mistake. He In fact,
a lot of times when I'm coming up with guitar parts,

(27:28):
especially when I'm in the studio and I'm trying to
come up with something, I will think about, what would
t BONEU have done? How would he have approached this?
Because he was a, you know, one of the world's
great greatest bass players of all time and incredible guitar player,
great piano player, great keyboard player. He was New York
State accordion champion when he was twelve years old. He

(27:51):
was just one of these natural musicians, gifted musicians. I
can't say enough about him. He you know, And I'll
tell you a really funny anecdote of how we met
him and how he became part of the whole band.
We were auditioning bass players at the time, and this

(28:11):
was probably seventy nine, I would say seventy nine or eighty,
and we had a few bass players and we whittled
it down to two. There was a guy from Long Island,
very good looking guy. He had a cool haircut, he
was very very vibey and cool. And then there was Tebo, who,
you know, we didn't know and they both came in

(28:34):
and they both played and they were both good. And
the good looking guy from Long Island he was a
really good singer as well. And after his audition we
had listened to t Bone and we were like impressed
with him big time. He actually had an accordion with him.
When he came to the to the audition, he pulled

(28:55):
out his accordions started playing Zydago on the accordion. We
were like, wow, amazing, amazing. And then the other guy
came in. The other guy was really great and he
looked great on stage, and we were like, wow, what
do we do? You know, they're both great, but this guy,
you know, the good looking guy, he's like he's cool man,
you know. And t Bones kind of he was kind
of frumpy in a little cap and.

Speaker 6 (29:16):
He looked like a great character actor. He almost had
like a Tom Waits' older brother exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
And so so after the audition the guy guy from
Long Island finished. He was very confident and he was
he was a little cocky, you know, and he was like, yeah, so,
uh say Darryl when I'm in the band, uh, you know,
probably be better if I sang kiss on my list
my God, and remember Daryl Darryl turned to me and

(29:44):
he said, hey, John, go get the bold guy.

Speaker 6 (29:49):
I am not surprised, but I love that story very Uh.
It strikes as very true to what I the little
I know about by endynamics out another guy in the
band for the because that was like the Voices era,
I guess it was.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
G was the beginning of it. Yeah, well Voices there
we had John Siegler playing bass at the beginning of it,
and keybone transitioned right into it.

Speaker 6 (30:11):
And g Smith was also part of the Classic band
for a while and people know him also from Saturday
Night Live over the years. I wondered, I was listening
when I was listening to some of the stuff with
g who was you know, played with Dylan And you know,
I wondered. I know at one point he was married
to Gilda Radner. Was Gilda Radner ever part of the
Hall and Oates circle? I never heard any stories about that,

(30:33):
not really.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
He that's when you know, in between tours at the
time when Ge was in our band, he then took
the job as the m D on Saturday Night Live,
and that's where he met Gilda, and that's where they
they got married and all that, so she was she
was in the periphery of it. But you know, she
was working all the time. We were working all the time.
So we know we weren't close, but you know we

(30:55):
socialized occasionally. But ge, you know, g he's a great
guitar I mean, hands down, you know, he's so versatile
and as you said, he could play with Dylan, he
could play folky stuff. You know, he could play you know,
he could do you know, pretty much anything. He's he's
one of those great rock guitar players, you know, and

(31:15):
and and so many of the signature lead solos, especially
on the Hole and Notes records in the eighties. We're
all ge you know, take you know, give him full
credit for all that stuff.

Speaker 6 (31:26):
Well, you guys, I will say, I think one of
the things as a young in the seventies, you were
the bands were always great, Like at one point I
think you grabbed Elton John's band when he wasn't using them.
I think that might have been even around the Beauty
in the Backstreet era or it's all a little bit
of a blur, but it was.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Along the Red Ledge during Along the Red Ledge.

Speaker 6 (31:47):
Just just some great, great players, Yeah, always. I have
some other little memories I wanted to check with you.
One memory is before I think when I was first
a fan. I remember trying to compete in a competition
to get you to my high school because there was
some bubble gum carefree.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Sugar List gum, carefree sugar List gum.

Speaker 6 (32:09):
And so what was this? I lost. I'm very heartbroken still.
I tried to get you to ten and Fly high school.
It didn't work, but it was that sort of at
not one of the high water marks where you were
having to do a sugar free gum competition.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Well, you know, I don't know. You could look at
it in two ways. You know, maybe it's we I
think we had the dubious distinction of being one of
the first bands to do a corporate sponsorship. But it
was an interesting period of time because we had had
all the success and you know, in the mid seventies
with with Sarah Smile Rich Girl, and then the re

(32:45):
release of She's Gone. So we were playing arenas and
you know, big venues and things were really clicking, and
then we really kind of fell off the mountaintop. You know,
Beauty on a Backstreet was a stiff We did a
live recording that wasn't that great, and then we did
Along the Red Ledge, which was really as you and

(33:06):
I think you liked that record and so I. But
during that kind of I would call it a down period.
What we were doing was trying to figure out what
the next step would be, and one of those components
to that was to find a band that was good
enough to tour with, but also we could go in

(33:29):
the studio make records with because prior to that we'd
always we'd have a touring band and then we'd have
a completely different We'd have studio musicians making all the records,
and that's fine, but we really felt that it was
missing that final puzzle piece to have a band that
you could play live with and then take that energy
right into the studio and convert it to a recording.

(33:51):
And that's that began with the Elton John Band with
Kenny Passerelli, Roger Pope, and Caleb Quay. They did what
was Along the Yellow Brick Road, I believe, and then
they played with us during it for those two albums,
and that really clicked, and they weren't going to be

(34:11):
the permanent solution, but it led the way to getting
the band that eventually became the Eighties.

Speaker 6 (34:18):
Band, which was magical band with t bone, with ge,
with just all great, great players. A few other memories.
I wanted to make a confession of something embarrassing that
you'll never No one's ever known this. But do you
remember doing a TV show I hosted on Bravo called

(34:40):
Musicians In It would have been two thousand and one.
We did a TV show in New York that was
for Bravo. Do you remember that any chances?

Speaker 2 (34:47):
I do?

Speaker 1 (34:48):
I do remember that?

Speaker 6 (34:48):
Yeah? Yeah, Well I want to tell you that the
night before I had I was I couldn't sleep. I
was so excited to have you know, you two on
my TV show. You know, we had great guests, We
had Tony Bennet, we had all sorts of you know,
Delvis Costell are great people, and but I was especially
excited and nervous about you two. And then in the
middle of the night I had a thought, I said,

(35:10):
why don't I try to get the guys to teach
me to do a third part on She's Gone and
try to learn how to sing on camera.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Good luck with that one.

Speaker 6 (35:20):
I remember like thinking all night this was a great idea.
And I woke up out of the morning. I woke up
in the morning and went, what the fuck was I
just thinking? But good, I'm glad to know you would
have turned me down if I had not had come
to my senses before then.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
She is gone, She's gone, She's going on, She's she's gone.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Look then.

Speaker 6 (36:02):
But it did make me think that what I learned
listening all night to that song is there's something about
when voices blend, when voices weave together, that is unique
and almost inexplicable, I believe, even to the people sometimes
in your case like that. To me, is She's Gone

(36:23):
is easily one of my top five songs of all time.
I just think it's, you know, out of the gate
and masterpiece. And but is it fair to say that
that vocal weaving in and out, which frankly there's never
been enough of like it's those are my favorite moments
in hall notes when there's voices weaving in and out
like that. But that is it even a little mysterious

(36:46):
to you?

Speaker 1 (36:48):
You mean, how it happened? Please tell me, well, it
just happened. It just happened. We you know. During the
Abandoned Luncheonetta album with a Reef Martin at the helm.
A Reef one of his you know, great skills and
genius was to let us be ourselves, but to guide
the process and make sure we didn't go off the

(37:10):
rails and surround us with the greatest musicians on the
planet to take the songs that we had written and
and really take them to a whole other level.

Speaker 6 (37:21):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
And She's Gone was just this thing, this magical thing.
It was magical when we wrote it. We wrote it
probably in an hour. We recorded it with the great
you know, with Bernard perty on drums.

Speaker 6 (37:37):
Just you know, under the greatest musicians, one of the
greatest drummers.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Of all time, and and then then we just worked
out this vocal and it was just it was just
a thing back in those days, you know, when you're
in your twenties and you know, you don't think too
hard about stuff. You just go for it. And that's
what we did. And and a Reef was there with
a guiding with guiding musical hand to make sure that

(38:02):
everyone's and of course he wrote the string arrangement, which
is just absolutely magnificent, stellar.

Speaker 6 (38:07):
It's just, by the way, the greatest recording of all
time and interesting in history, maybe the most fucked up
video ever made in music history. It is the craziest, darkest, funniest.
I don't know, that's my favorite. That's my favorite video.
It is the greatest of the Hall and Oates videos.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
And anyone who hasn't seen it, you should look it up.
I always tell people.

Speaker 6 (38:30):
That it's on YouTube and you won't believe what you're seeing.
It's it's sort of it is. It is a it's
sort of like a college art movie over the greatest
song of all time.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
It pre dates MTV by what eight nine eight nine years.

Speaker 6 (38:47):
Yep, and it is ahead of every curve. It's still
ahead of its time, absolutely amazing. I wanted to also,
I don't know if you remember this story, just to
show you how I know your dedication to music, because
the thing is you you just keep working in different

(39:07):
areas and exploring. You know your passion, and you also
like your I literally had a day when you know
you spend a lot you. I think you live part
time in Nashville. I know you're right now in Colorado,
but you lived part time in Nashville. I'm there a lot,
and I remember one time when I was there, I
saw you were giving a reading of your book, Change

(39:28):
of Season, your wonderful book, which is right here, uh,
and I went to it. I don't know if you
remember this, but I went to Grimey's and I sat
there and really had a great time with you. I
waited in the line and got my book signed, which
I still have right here, and then the part I
don't know if you would remember, but it really struck
me as something wonderful about you. I think. I then

(39:50):
got on a plane and headed home, and I believe
that night or the next night, you were playing what
was then, I think the Staples Center U now is
known as Crypto dot com playing with Tears for Fears
with my friend Kurt Smith. And I just thought, that's
a long range to go from Grimy's, the coolest record
store then and now in Nashville, to you know, the

(40:14):
Staple Center headlining.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Well. During that whole early to the mid two thousands,
I was playing the station in Thurton Lindsley, the Ryman Auditorium.
I was playing with bluegrass musicians. Then I'd go and
play with Darryl and we'd go and do big shows
and with various things. You know, it's all music to me.
It's all just, you know, part of this thing that

(40:38):
I feel comfortable in a You know, I may not
be the best singer, best guitar player, best songwriter, but
I'm really versatile. I can tell you that well.

Speaker 6 (40:46):
As part of your versatility. You mentioned sort of the
folk thing, And I want to play a track that
really connected with me early as a kid, and it's
about being young. I'm just a kid. Don't make me
feel like a man from a bandon lunchenet. So I
just want to hear let's people hear a little bit
of that. Then I want to ask you about that.

Speaker 5 (41:09):
Won't you talk to me?

Speaker 6 (41:12):
Will you survive?

Speaker 5 (41:14):
You?

Speaker 3 (41:16):
I know you can describe the dreams you want to
be to stay or get away. I'm not playing around,
can't you tell no wayam squeezing, no hate. I'm just
a kid.

Speaker 5 (41:29):
Don't make me feel.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
Like I'm mad.

Speaker 6 (41:32):
John. For me, what's interesting is, like you wrote, there's
a lot of songs that are written by young men,
and that's one really about like growing up and about
confronting grown up things and feeling rushed. And I just wonder, like,
is it is it amazing to revisit songs from your youth.

(41:54):
As you get older and have more experiences, like one
thing I've always loved, like uh, I'm a big Sinatra fan,
and a lot of people like give up on certain
singers as I get older. I always find it more
fascinating when singers have a lifetime of work to revisit
And is it fun to you to go back to
those early songs?

Speaker 1 (42:16):
And I wouldn't say it's fun, it's it's it's interesting.
I should have written I'm just a kid, Don't make
me feel like a man now, But I and I
got the idea for that song standing in the back
of the of the theater in New Jersey. I went
to a show. I can't remember who the artist was,
who was performing, but I was just standing in the

(42:39):
back by the soundboard, and I remember seeing all these kids,
these young girls. You know, maybe so I was in
my twenties. You know, I wasn't that old, obviously, but
the kids were even younger, and it just struck me
as I was almost of a different generation. And I
don't know how I projected that and into a song.

(43:02):
That song reminds me kind of a Broadway song almost.
It could be in a Broadway show, but anyway, I
don't know how it happened. It just happened.

Speaker 7 (43:30):
What album, And you mentioned like the young audience.

Speaker 6 (43:46):
One thing. As someone who's gone to shows, I think
I've gone to shows in every decade, multiple shows you've played.
One thing that I do remember is when five Hundred
Days of Summer came out, there was an infusion of
which is a good infusion of youth, and especially a
lot of young women who I think got into Hall

(44:07):
and oates around that that was sort of a a
gateway for a lot of them. Is do you did
you perceive it that way? It was that a significant
moment for you?

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, it was, and in fact you know that you know,
think about that song when it came out, it was
released as a single, it went into the top ten
or top five. Maybe it really wasn't one of our
big hits. In fact, it wasn't even released in England
or Europe or Japan as a single, So it really
it took on a life of its own, and I

(44:39):
think it was directly because of Five Hundred Days of Summer.
In fact, when the movie came out, I knew that
they were using the song in the movie, but I
didn't know really much about it. I didn't really think
about it. My wife and son and I were at
the Grove in La walking around.

Speaker 6 (44:55):
Shopping around twenty feet away.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yes I know, yeah, okay, And we walked past the
movie theater and it's at five hundred days the summer.
It was the middle of the afternoon, and I said,
you know, I think we got a song in this movie.
Maybe maybe we should go watch it. And so we
went in and it was, like I said, in the
middle of the afternoon. So it was my son, my wife,
and I and then you know, a few rows away,

(45:18):
we're about three or four teenage girls. We were the
only people in the theater. And so we're watching the
movie and then the scene comes comes when he's you know,
kind of in this you Love Vieuphoria moment where he's
dancing in the park and the animated birds are on
his shoulder and the song comes on and I was like, whoa.
And when the song when it finished, when that scene finished,

(45:40):
the girls started clapping and I was like.

Speaker 6 (45:43):
Oh, wo something's happening. Yes, something's happening.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Something clicked and I will say, I think that's one
of the you know, I mean, sure, you know I
think it's one of the best, the best marriages of
music and film. There's something about the way they captured
this this young new love and the groove and vibe
of that song combined really was a very very special moment.

(46:12):
You know. I don't know whether you know, film historians
are going to care or anything like that, but for
me and it really it propelled that song into the
public consciousness and then from there it took on a
life of its own with commercials, and you know, to
this day it's it's being licensed constantly all around.

Speaker 6 (46:30):
The world, which is great a song. I want to
ask Phil, who did recorded a little intro for this
episode and who is wanted to be here. I wanted
to ask about one song that I think is you know,
very close to his heart in terms of its message.
Can you talk a little bit, because you know, he

(46:51):
is a food and travel show. Somebody feed Phil and
his favorite place is Italy, so I wanted to ask
for him. I'm sort of going to play a little
of Italian Girls and ask you if you can tell
me a little bit, because to me, this song has
the passion for all like travel, food, women, all the
greatest things in life. Let's hear a little of Italian Girls.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Somebody tell me, Somebody tell me.

Speaker 6 (47:28):
Can you tell me about that song which I've always
always puts a smile on my face? Is that one
you love? And does it? Does it bring back to
you the joys of travel and uh? And Italian Girls?

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Well, it brings back the memory that it was the
first tour in Italy. And I can't really tell you
where the real inspiration came from, the song, but I
will tell you that my favorite, I think one of
the favorite, my favorite lyrics that I've ever written in
my life. And it's funny because a lot of people
when I do these acoustic songwriters shows, they always say, oh,

(48:01):
play Italian Girls. And I never play the whole song,
but I play it up till the second verse, because
to me, the second verse is one of the best
lyrics I've ever written. I eat, I eat, I eat
too much. No I drink, I drink, I drink too much.
Vino rosso say no more amarone, I eat, I eat,
I eat too much, pasta basta. I'm so full and
yet so lonely. Okay, So I know, I know, And

(48:24):
then I will play that song up to that point
and then I'll stop and I won't play it any
further than that. So I really it's funny and kind
of weird, but uh yeah, it's a it's a kind
of a comedy song in a way.

Speaker 6 (48:38):
Phil always says because people call in and ask what's
your favorite place in the world to go, and he
always says Italy wins, which I sort of relate to.
I also wonder food wise, you spend a lot of
time in Nashville, which has become a great food town.
At one point you were doing you guys were involved
at one point in a food festival. I think at

(48:59):
Cheese was like a cheese steak festival. So is food
is food of any You look like you don't eat
a great deal, But are you a foodie at all?

Speaker 1 (49:09):
I like to eat not good food. Yeah, of course
I'm not a I'm not a great cook. I do
cook a little bit. My wife cooks.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
You know.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I enjoy a great meal. But I'm not a No,
I wouldn't call myself a foodie. No, I'm not. I'm
not obsessed by food. I'm I'm just uh. I eat
food for for health and energy.

Speaker 6 (49:30):
And you're currently speaking to us, not from Nashville, but
from uh Colorado and hit yes you can. It does
look very Colorado. Uh you is it. I had a
few brushes with a guy who I believe you were
neighbors friendly with. It was Hunter Thompson, someone in your

(49:51):
life for a period there in Colorado.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, he's his his house is right up the road.
We were his closest neighbor.

Speaker 6 (49:59):
And uh, my brief experience with him, he was a
wild ride. And I also I had the pleasure of
working with Jack Nicholson, who when he had to give
a speech at a memorial I think after he passed,
and we spent so I spent a day or two
with Jack Nicholson hearing Hunter stories. And Jack Nicholson thought

(50:19):
of him as the wildest character he never knew, which
says something. Any favorite memories of Hunter, Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
He was our closest neighbor. He Uh, you know, we
didn't hang out a lot, but you know I used
to go up there like in latch Monday night football.
He had the salon. He he really enjoyed having all
these people, you know, come over, interesting people, and it
was always it was always based around sports and betting.

(50:48):
If you if you came to watch a sporting event
at his house. You had to bet it was part
of part of the it was required. And and then
he would be in control of the He would have
the remote control and as soon as the commercial came on,
he would mute the TV and then he would engage
in these tough topics. And it became this salon and

(51:08):
people started throwing, you know, talking about all sorts of
interesting things. The moment the game came back on, he
hit the mute button. The game came back on, everyone
had a shut up. And you know, the thing about
Hunter is he really liked being the character Hunter Thompson.
That's the one thing I picked up on very early
on when I met him. He liked being that guy

(51:30):
on the motorcycle with a cigarette holder and the slouch
hat and the glass of you know, booze. But the
deep down inside he was a real gentleman from Kentucky.
And if he liked you, and if he didn't like you,
he forget it. You know, he would tear your part.
But if he liked you, he was very very cordial

(51:53):
and funny and interesting. I'll tell you. You want to
hear his funny story, I'll tell you a funny story
about it. When we moved into our property, which was
where I am now, there was nothing on the property
except a little log cabin and a horse barn. Well
in the log cabin was his red land Shark convertible,
that osmobile or Buick or whatever it was. He had

(52:16):
just put it in there because the property had been abandoned,
and I guess he wanted to store it, so he
put it in there. And when we bought the property,
we were going to turn that little cabin into a
guest house so we could live in it. So I
needed to get rid of the car, so the keys
were in it, I jump started it, I drove it
up on his lawn and left it there. Because I
didn't know him, we had never met, so I just

(52:37):
left the car there. He never said a word to me,
you know after that, I mean about it. I guess
he just thought the car had appeared at some point
in his front yard. But he was a he was
a really great guy. And I wrote I wrote an
editor story for a magazine about that, and I thought, boy,
I can't put it in this magazine unless I get

(52:58):
his approval, because it's kind of know, I just want
to you know, kind of uh, you know. Anyway, so
I went up there one night. Yeah, I went up
there one night with the with the story. I had
printed it out on some pages and it was a
little short story, and I wanted to just give it
to him and just say, hey, you know, check it out,
and if it's okay with you, I'd like to publish this.

(53:19):
And of course, during the game, when the commercial came on,
he made me read it aloud, except I had to
read it aloud to the salon. Except while I was
reading it, I was a little intimidated. So I was
kind of reading it kind of quietly, and he had
this bowie knife and he kept poking me in the
ribs and he kept saying, top notch, top nutche, speak up,

(53:41):
and so so I, you know, I started being a
little more animated, and I read the story, and finally
at the end he loved it. He said he goes
top and I kept saying top nutch, And as soon
as the game came on, he muted me and muted
muted me and muted the story and he was back
to the football game. But yeah, and I did, I did.
I put it in and asked and I think was
an asked magazine. They published it, but it was a

(54:02):
story about that. So yeah, he was. He was very
very he he was a bigger his than his legend.

Speaker 6 (54:10):
Well, by the way you point out, you know, people
can forget because the persona got so big and the
legend got so big. I had a teacher who taught
me at Cornell, visiting professor William Kennedy, the guy who
wrote Ironweedy, one of the Pulleitzer Prize for fiction. But
he always said if he wasn't such a character, people
would realize what a brilliant writer he was enough, what

(54:31):
a brilliant writer he was. Even like at the end
when he wrote about Roxanne Pulletzer in that case in
Rolling Stone, I remember thinking, I don't even know if
he's just making this all up, but it is brilliantly,
absolutely brilliantly written. I once when Rolling Stone was having
its fortieth or thirtieth anniversary. One of those anniversaries, Yan
Winner called me and said, I'm flying Eric Clapton and

(54:53):
Robbie Robertson in for the party. You can get a
ride one way with them and then you can fly
coach back. That It was very typical, but I was listening.
I was happy. But I remember we were supposed to
stop in Colorado, Land and pick up Hunter to take
him to this party. All I remember is Eric Clapton

(55:15):
had a date with Michelle Pfeiffer. This was when they
before Michelle Pfiffer was with davidy Kelly. And it was
snowing in Colorado, which is not, I guess uncommon, and
the pilot kept trying to land Yan's plane and Eric
Clapton was going just leave Hunter. We got adad to
New York from my he was, and we ended up

(55:35):
not having a Hunter on the plane. But I'll always
regret it. I'm happy that Eric got to New York
for his date with Michelle Pfeiffer, but I would have
liked to have been on the plane with Hunter if
I survived whatever would have happened.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, he was. He was a character and as you say,
but a brilliant writer. He you know, I mean he
invented a style of journalism, really, this gonzo journalism idea,
and it was just Yeah, he was totally unique.

Speaker 6 (56:00):
I have a question that we're going to put into
the episode for you from my friend Jimmy jam who
is a fan of yours. Yeah, and obviously a great
price in his own right.

Speaker 8 (56:11):
Hey John, it's Jimmy jam So here's my question for you.
People always ask me what's your favorite song or your
favorite project? And I always say favorite is a tough
thing because there can be a lot of reasons for favorite.
It could be the result of it if it was
a number one record, or it sold a ton of records,
or it could be the you know, overcoming a challenge

(56:32):
to get it done. I mean, there's so many things
that go into the word favorite. So the way I
like to put it is if there was a time
capsule and there was a piece of music in there,
and the aliens came down one hundred years from now,
and they opened that time capsule up, and the time
capsule said John Oates, what would be the song that
would play?

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Do I have to pick only one that's.

Speaker 6 (56:54):
You can name a few, please? It's a well, it's
prey aliens, so the aliens probably don't know what When
one song ends.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
I would say She's Gone, and I would put She's
Gone in the first, and then I would like to
put one of my solo songs in. I with the
song reunion that I wrote. Uh, that was inspired by
my dad before he passed away at one hundred and one.

Speaker 6 (57:17):
Did you write that with Aj?

Speaker 2 (57:19):
I did?

Speaker 1 (57:20):
I wrote it.

Speaker 6 (57:22):
That's because I met Aja years and years ago. Really
great kid, great and a good really good musician, really great.
How did you end up writing that this song? We'll
put a little of it in.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Well, I my dad, Uh, you know, I was visiting
it was it was very kind of interesting. I had
been booked to play the Philadelphia Folk Festival, which was
on my bucket list for you know, forever. And I
played the Philadelphia Folk Festival on a Saturday night and
we headlined it and it was amazing. It was a
beautiful night. And my dad, who was living at an

(57:56):
assisted living very close by, about ten miles away, we
made arrangements with my family to go see him the
next day to visit with him, and we did, and
he was in pretty good spirits. He was talking about,
you know, reuniting with his with mom who had passed
away earlier, and his family and kept talking about that

(58:18):
and it stuck in my mind. And then interestingly or fittingly,
I guess you'd say, on Monday morning, he never woke
up so we got to see him the day before
and it was too It was a very powerful thing
to realize that I had played this kind of show
that I, for my whole life I wanted to play.

(58:39):
Then I got to see him and visit with him
for the last time, and he gave me an idea
that that I couldn't shake, and I started thinking about
it a thing to think about the real definition or
the true meaning of the word reunion, and I came
up with a couple of lines, and one of the
lines I came up with was the lights at the

(59:00):
party are bright, but I'm leaving early tonight. It's time.
You got to know when to not stick around anymore.
And I met Aj at a show we did for
John Prime at the Ryman Auditorium. We hit it off
in the dressing room, and something told me that with

(59:21):
his songwriting DNA, that he'd be a great collaborator to
work on this idea with me. And I came over
to his house with that idea, with the title reunion
and with the line, and we just banged it.

Speaker 6 (59:35):
Out and I was right.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
He he got it, and then he ended up recording
it on his most recent album, and I of course
I recorded it in two different versions, which is really
cool as well. So yeah, so it's a very it's
a meaning, super meaningful song for me, and I think
it's one of those things where it was just a cosmic,
you know, cosmic confluence of inspiration and direction from my father,

(01:00:01):
and then it pointed me to AJ who I had
some innate feeling that he would be the right guy
to help me realize it.

Speaker 6 (01:00:10):
And let's hear a little of John's version right now
of Reunion.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
I'm making Red. I'm making red it.

Speaker 6 (01:00:29):
You know, I have to say it's really moving because
I you know, I am not a songwriter, but music
couldn't mean more to me as a fan. And I
thought about it when my dad was in hospice at
the very very end, when you know, there's that period
where you're in my case, I was getting him his

(01:00:50):
favorite meals, I was trying to watch his favorite shows
and sort of things, and then at a certain point
there was nothing I could do other than be there.
And I remember at a certain point I was just
playing his favorite music. I was picking like his favorite
Sinatra songs and stuff like that, and music was one
of the only things I could give him like that was,
you know, one of the last pleasures. And interestingly, there

(01:01:15):
was a nurse who told me, and he was not
really even speaking all that much at the end, but
he told the nurse when I was not there. He goes,
you know, my son mentioned me on a Frank Sinatra
record because I had mentioned him in the liner notes
to Duets, and I just thought, how amazing that like
that musically, because Sinatra was like his inspiration, that's what
he played for strength when tough times in his life.

(01:01:38):
That somehow that meant that much to him that it
was one of his last thoughts that he expressed. It
was you know, it made me feel like maybe I
did some good for him, which, you know, which was.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:01:51):
Well, John. I really appreciate this chance to catch up
a little bit, and also I really appreciate the new record,
which I encourage everyone to check out. You know, we've heard,
we've played you a few songs, but this is a
deep record and it's a you know, a guy who
has a you know, your your passion for music is
completely undiminished, which there are a lot of people who

(01:02:14):
have been around this business. You know, there's a lot
I'm sure you know a lot of them who stop
recording and just go out and play, you know, the
old songs. And that's like, but it seems like your
passion for music is, if anything, greater now right now?

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Well, you know, I I look around me, and I'm
pretty self aware, and I'm aware that my contemporaries are,
you know, they're falling by the wayside for any number
of reasons. And it's a sobering thought. And I I'm
still healthy, I can still sing, I can still think,
I can still play, I can still travel. And you know,

(01:02:53):
there but for fortune, you know, go you or I.
So I I realize there's a time stamp on creativity
and I feel like I still have something to offer,
and I don't want to waste it. Very few people
get the luxury of being and the gift really it's
not even a luxury. It's a gift of having creative freedom.

(01:03:16):
And the work that I've done with Darryl, the success,
the commercial success that we've had, has given me true
creative freedom. And I don't want to squander it and
waste it. And I think it would be I would
be you know, it would be a real you know,
it'd be a very negative thing for me to not
have this incredible gift of for creative freedom and not

(01:03:38):
make the most of it.

Speaker 6 (01:03:39):
Well, you're still doing it, and I will tell you
I personally always want to thank you and Darryl because
it was I honestly can say listening to Abandoned Luncheonet
was one of the reasons that music became my life.
And just to show you how it's well known what
a fan I am by you know, I think I've
written some liner notes. I don't know if i'man you're

(01:04:00):
behind the music, I don't even know, but I do
know that it was even amazing to me when the
you know, when the controversies were blowing up, I got
a call from Howard's from Bob Aboui from our friend
Gary Delabate. I don't know if you know this. He
asked me to go on the Howard Stern Show to
talk about what was going on because you guys weren't talking.

(01:04:22):
And I don't know if you know that, but it
was hysterical for me because I had a slight grudge
against Howard, which was the last time I had talked
to him. I love I love Howard, but the last
time I'd talked to him. He had told me not
to marry my wife, who he had not met, but
he just said he was after his first marriage and
before his second marriage, and he told me, he said, David,

(01:04:45):
you have a cool job. A guy with a cool
job should never get married. Don't do it. And he's
the only person who told me don't do it. So
when they called, I said, I will do this on
the condition that I can give him shit for telling
me not to get married to my wife of thirty
one years thirty one years ago. And so I did that.
So I spoke briefly about you, and then I gave

(01:05:06):
him shit for telling me not to get married.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
So and I'm glad you did.

Speaker 6 (01:05:10):
Yes. Well, thank you John so much for this, and
thank you for the Oats album, and thank you for
just being a significant inspiration in my life.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Well thanks David. I appreciate your passion for music and
I know you're the real deal and that's why.

Speaker 6 (01:05:26):
I wanted to do this anyway, So well, thank you
so much, and we'll talk to you Hill hopefully I'll
see you more and more now at dinners where I'm
speaking and ruining events. Great anytime, Great, Thank you John.

Speaker 9 (01:05:41):
Naked Lunch is a podcast by Phil Rosenthal and David Wilde.
Theme song and music by Brad Paisley, Produced by Will
Sterling and Ryan Tillotson, with video editing by Daniel Ferrara
and motion graphics by Ali. I'm ed executive produced by
Phil Rosenthal, David Wilde, and our consulting journalist is Pamela Chella.

Speaker 6 (01:05:57):
If you enjoyed the show, share it with a friend.
But if you can't take my word for it, take
phills and.

Speaker 7 (01:06:03):
Don't forget to leave a good rating and review. We
like five stars.

Speaker 9 (01:06:06):
You know, thanks for listening to Naked Lunch, A Lucky
Bastard's production.