Neal Brennan

The brilliant comedian, writer, director, producer, fellow podcaster and acclaimed "Chappelle's Show" co-creator Neal Brennan joins his friend Phil and David for a funny, fast-moving and occasionally trippy conversation about his impressive career in comedy, his stand up influences, his creative relationship with Dave Chappelle and how ayahuasca changed his spiritual life. For more on Neal, go to https://www.nealbrennan.com. To learn more about building community through food and "Somebody Feed the People," visit the Philanthropy page at philrosenthalworld.com.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
David Phil there's some great comedians in America.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Well, one of my favorites. There's a fellow named Neil Brennan.
I'm a fan and I'm so thankful that you got
to know him and you're brought him to Naked Lunch
because I've never met him. I worked with the guy Chappelle,
he worked with Yes a couple of times, try to bend,
but I've never got to meet Neil Brennan. I'm a
big fan.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, let's not waste any time.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Let's just get to Neil. He's crazy good.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Here he is Neil Brennan.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Let's build the beans to the fat, food for thought
and jokes on taip, talking with our mouthsful, having fun
with the peas and cake and humble pies, serving.

Speaker 4 (00:54):
Up Slae lovely, the dressing, all the side. It's naked Lunch.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Clothing option. Have you met David before?

Speaker 4 (01:05):
No, David, I've never met you, and I'm I was uh.
I don't have shocked. I don't want to say I
was shocked. I didn't. I didn't see this pair coming.
Are you filed friends? Are you old friends? Are you
like adult friends? How did how did it?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
How to talk to me, Phil, you explained, I don't
know what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
As a former you've you know, you did some magazine writing,
and as a magazine writer, I was at Rolling Stone,
not the source, not as cool.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
As I remember.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
I remember, but I wrote the first review of Everybody
Loves Raymond, which I pointed out was the best show
in the season. And uh, at that point it took
some insight to say that. It was before it launched.
So he liked that, and he invited me to lunch,
and we've been having lunch ever since. And that's how
it became that was.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
That was easy. Huh, Yes, that was an easy way
to never pay for lunch again.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
He wrote a very thirsty review.

Speaker 4 (02:10):
Yeah, basically because I was Phil. I don't know if
I told you this, but I actually showed this ninety
six ninety seven, Yeah, and then when it started, Yeah,
I showed the pilot to Dave Chappelle. I should We
actually happened to watch the pilot for Raymond and Chris

(02:32):
Rocks Bring the Pain in the same afternoonnoon Dave goes. I.
Dave said, I feel like I just got hit in
the head with a two by four. Wow, because it
was like two you know, peers of his especially, and
it was just like, oh, we got to be this good. Okay,

(02:52):
I didn't realize that. So how old were you that much?
So again, I've gotten one free lunch, so I guess
that's how it works. Well, thank you.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's really something to think that.

Speaker 4 (03:03):
You and Pilot. In fact, my brother Kevin was friends
with Ray and I was like, tell him how good
this was?

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Oh, tell him, that's so nice.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
So yeah, it's the small world.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, I mean, you guys, you don't need me to
say it, but you guys are the Kings.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
The Chappelle Show was just unbelievably great. For those of
you who don't know, Neil was the writer of The
Chappelle Show. And you ran the show, right.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
I mean yeah, we co ran it. I directed it,
y and co wrote it and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, until you had I.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
Was on the I was on the board.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yes, yes, until you had a very bad day.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
We had a very you l fill, we had a
bad day, and and and then it was and then
that was pretty much over. But man, before it was over,
but I call it, uh, somebody called it a catastrophic success.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Like like no one's ever seen. I mean, he has
just signed a gigantic deal, right.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and yep.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Now forgive me if this gets too personal or you
don't want to talk about this. You guys are friends
at this time. Yeah, you guys came.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Up together, right, You knew him since your how.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Old before we did the show? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (04:22):
How old were you when you met?

Speaker 4 (04:25):
Seventeen eighteen?

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Okay, so your buddy's from way back. Yeah, he doesn't
call you to tell you he's not showing up for
work anymore.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Uh yeah, I mean that's basically how work. Yeah. People
are crazy, People are wild, and and show business is crazy,
and uh, you know, things, things transpire that we don't
none of us can predict, et cetera, et cetera. It's

(04:59):
best slate plans of mice and men, sands of time.
Did I go on with the metaphors? David hit him
with some metaphors?

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Can I just hit him?

Speaker 4 (05:08):
Yeah? Period, hit him? Man, I don't want to bring
up I'm gonna come over there and knock the fork
out of your hand. That's a that's a Phil Rosenthal threat.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Good kimchi, good luck trying to do that.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
Yeah, from my cold dead hands. Right, But you guys
got past that eventually, Yes, eventually, eventually is how long.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Was he eventually?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Ah?

Speaker 4 (05:39):
When did George Carlin die? You look that up? Was
two thousand and nine, Yeah, it was two thousand and nine.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
So you talked about that.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
You said, Hey, no, I just saw I just bumped
into him. Oh And it was like he knew we
were going to bump into it. It was kind of
weird and not even weird. It was just kind of like,
you know, I don't know, Bill, do you ever find
anything spooky about your relationship with Ray? Not spooky, but
like you'll look back on your life and it seems

(06:11):
inevitable or something, or like writing that something that potent.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
No, but you know, I know that he was very
unsure of me when we started, And to be fair,
I was unsure of me because I'd never created a
show before.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
For for okay, So it was about it was about trust,
it was about experience and not about necessarily like Voice No, I.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Think Voice two. He was very worried that it was good.
I just don't want it to be sitcom ye, yeah,
which I understand coming from where he comes from, and
his style of humor is very grounded and very uh
real it's got to be real, you know, Real is
not really what he's going for or but believable is,

(07:04):
and it's what I was going for as well. But
how do you convince a guy having written on the
shows I had written for that I was just doing
those shows because I needed to eat, and that my
sensibility was very much grounded in h on the earth.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
So he wasn't you. It wasn't like a bit of
a the equality being the tension created by your sort
of formal sitcom training and his pulling in the opposite
direction of I mean the thing I liked the show,
and I think I've told you this is like how
long the scenes were, And it was like four or
five scenes was an episode, especially back then when it

(07:45):
was like Friends and Seinfeld and exactly cut too cut,
too cut, too cut too.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
So I could I could, I could say that was
my sensibility. I was coming from the theater, right, that
was my background. He was coming from Seinfeld. In fact,
he wanted to do a show like Seinfeld. Yeah, does
there have.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
To be a story?

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Can't we sit in the diner and talk stuff?

Speaker 4 (08:10):
He knew Seinfeld hadn't been that in three years. By
the time you guys started, Yes, maybe he didn't.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
They were plot crazy. They were they went, they went.
In other words, for people.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Who don't know, you know, Raymond, I was very conscious
of having one A story, no b stories, No Robert
lost his shoe by the way, and we're going to
be following that. In addition to the main plot of
the show. On Friends and on Seinfeld, each of the
characters had their own story, so there was ABCD story,

(08:44):
sometimes given equal weight. And then Seinfeld evolved into a
formula where all four stories had to meet up somehow
at the end, and it didn't have to make sense
or be logical. We were just going to have them
all meet up at the end. Now, I thought, just
from where I was coming from the show, so I
was trying to emulate. I just wanted I thought, if

(09:09):
we have twenty one or twenty two minutes, why don't
we just make that one story that we care about.
And because the characters live literally in close proximity to
each other, they could all weigh in on that a story.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
I have a question, David Singh, as Phil and I
are talking like critics, what do you bring to the
podcast I brought up?

Speaker 2 (09:35):
You brought lunch a quarter of a burrito. Yeah, but
enough about my bullshit.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Tell us about what the what the dynamic was on
the Chappelle Show and what you brought to it versus
Chappelle's sensibility or were they the same?

Speaker 4 (09:54):
They were? I think they you would people would be
shocked by how similar they were. Uh in that I
think the oversimplification of a partnership is like you do structure,
he does jokes or whatever. That's like the simple one,

(10:15):
whereas I mean, like, here's a funny example the so
the Rick James sketch, like what became the most popular
thing we did the way that we did it in
a black void because that was how they did an
episode of Family Ties where Alex's friend died. What like

(10:42):
you'd never you'd live. I guess it's insane, but you
thought that, Yeah, well that's what I mean. Like and
by the way, the white guy didn't pitch it, I
mean you assume like, well that had to be there's
no way that that the black guy watched Family Ties, Like, no,

(11:03):
we both watched it religiously, And the minute he said it,
I was like, of course, wow, you know what I mean. Like,
so there's an example. And then it's just I mean,
I think a lot of our friendship and where you
and Ray had to do it quickly and maybe not
you were both old, so not old but adults. Was

(11:24):
a lot of me and Dave's relationship was about sensibility.
It was just about like that was hackey, that's hacky,
and you both are. You both agree and you can
kind of convince each other. Yeah, like, no, dude, that's hacky.
Like this Spike Lee movie's good, this one's not. Here's why.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
And Ray, actually, his influence was great on the show.
His wanting to be believable and real almost to a
full benefited the show.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
We became the most grounded Could this happen?

Speaker 4 (12:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (12:04):
And so many shows don't obey that rule or care
about Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
I think they get they get itchy. I mean I
think they just get like, you know, to quote Lauren
Michael's they they just gotta like burn the furniture, you know,
like it's yeah, yeah, it's like you gotta just what
I don't care. Is it realism? You know what's realistic?
We're shooting tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
We're shooting tomorrow, and and we we just need to
laugh here. But if you live by that sort of these,
if you live by that sword, you die by that sword, then.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
You can never really come back or you know, maybe
you'll have shame about an episode. Yes, but but you're
not gonna you're not going to be like that. We
gotta it is a it is a bit of a
point and no return. How many seasons was Chappelle to
two point three?

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Right?

Speaker 4 (12:58):
We did like that third of a season before he left.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
By the way, he's still he's not an old man this.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
No, I don't mean all I mean no, no, no,
I'm saying when we met we were seventeen.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
No, I know, but right now he's not an old man.
Would he ever want to do a sketch show again?

Speaker 4 (13:15):
We talked about it. I mean the issue is, you know,
based on like the marketplace. Yeah, most people I know
who do a show take a pay cut relative to
the nineties. Oh you know yeah, yeah, I mean, I
don't know if you're think about what you make doing

(13:38):
a theater and then make it an arena, yep, and
then ask me if Nate Bargatzi wants to do a sitcom.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Well he did for what?

Speaker 4 (13:50):
Well, yeah, no, he tried. But I'm saying, I mean,
he but I'm sure like halfway through is like why
am I doing this? You know so? So that's the
everyone I know who like that. I mean Taylor Thomlinson
was host of The Up Whatever, the at midnight show
and After Midnight, and I think she she just came

(14:10):
to her sense of like it ends up being like
a corporate gig doing these shows now where you're like,
why am I doing medium? I mean a lot of
times it's like not as good as your stand up
and you know so, But isn't.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Life on the road much harder than doing a four cameras?

Speaker 4 (14:30):
I mean, if you listen to country music, it is
I love from what I heard what I've heard, it's lonesome.
It's just I mean, I think it's just I think
even the road is different than it. I mean, I think,
you know, I don't know if you and I talked
about this, Like you used to have to live in

(14:50):
LA or New York to even be able to see
good movies, right, you know what I mean, Like there's
just no the incentive to staying put. There was no
internet before. It was lonesome on the internet with payphones
and no internet. Yeah, that's pretty lonesome. You're going to

(15:10):
catch a venereal disease. But now now it's like everywhere
you know, Damn Phil told you. But I was late.
I was twenty five minutes late, twenty to twenty five
minutes late for lunch with Phil last week. And I
opened with a philosophical query, which is, is it Can

(15:34):
you even be late anymore? In the age of cell phones?
I mean, obviously I could, and I was.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Nobody We talked about this.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Nobody cares anymore because the phone entertained you. And people
wait online for a cissant for two hours because they.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Have the phone.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
The phone is what got them there because they saw
it on Instagram, and the phone is what keeps them online.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Entertained Phil, Where were you when you were waiting? What rest? Uh?

Speaker 4 (16:03):
We want to say? Yeah? And were you.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Mobbed by bachelorette parties and other your fan base now?

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Or yes, that's what happens now?

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Oh it does happen. Did you see Do you see
how he gets Taylor?

Speaker 4 (16:17):
He's the he is the restaurant tours, He's the Justin
Bieber of restaurant tours.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
I would say, Rick James, bitch, But you.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
I mean, if he catches the same sort of legal
troubles as Rick James did. By the way, he's nine
people up. He's tying people up and making them eat pasta,
which is slightly different than what Rick James did. But

(16:57):
can we yield yield the to David.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
For well, I want I want to say, you know,
it's funny is that like, I don't know how elusive
you are. This is a thrill to meet you because
Chappelle Show was very important to me because it is
having talked to my kids about shows that changed comedy
and their lives and my lives like Monty Python and
things growing up, Chappelle Show was the show where my

(17:23):
kids could experience that my son's and yeah, uh and
I'm thankful for that. But I think it's amazing. I've
been able to work with Dave a few times, interestingly
in the period when you weren't. I think one of
his first things back was he came on the Grammys,
which was a viacom you know, a thing, which was
surprising and I got to watch what he was sort

(17:44):
of going through because he sort of came in and
we worked up something for him to say to introduce
one of the weirdest performances in Grammy history. This is
my Stone, and that was I think sly had trouble
getting into his own tribute at the Grammys because he
showed up with ahawk and a messenger on a messenger bicycle.
That was how he came backstage, and no one believed

(18:05):
that was Sly Stone. Yeah, but that was a really
interesting experience because he was both very sweet and open
and then very worried about everything. And then but I
have to tell you a couple of years later, I
had a great experience where I went my whole my
wife and I took our kids to Austin City Limits
to see a show by Dave and it was the

(18:26):
first time we ever had the phones being locked up,
you know experience. And when he came to do the
Grammys a couple a year later that year, I told
him that was a life changing experience. It was like
the first speaking about phones. It was a first like
night I spent with my kids and my wife where
we weren't looking at our phones and it was great.

(18:47):
And it was also an amazing show because he's so brilliant.
I told him this backstage at the Grammys because I
had convinced that's the whole long story, Trevor, No who
I think you have a good experience with. I happened
to fly next to Trevor on my way to the
Grammys in New York. We needed a presenter for Comedy
Album of the Year to either it was going to

(19:07):
be I think Seinfeld and Chappelle were up for the
Comedy Grammy of the Year. I happened to fly next
to Trevor and begged him to present. It turned out
he hadn't been told he had been offered it, and
he agreed to but backstage, Dave I told him about
how nice it was for my kids and I to
spend a night and my wife without our phones. And

(19:27):
he then when my wife, he rushed and found my
wife and asked for a selfie. And I remember going,
it's a crazy world where Dave Chappelle is asking for
the selfie and I still to this day.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
Because you have a hot wife, Rue, is that what
it is?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Well, I like, let's go with that.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
No, it is true. Of course you have to say.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yes, it is true, said come on, Phil, by the way, No,
I'll shut up now you've gotten too much of me.
But I will tell you that my favorite joke of
all time was Rickles. I met him late in his life,
you know, in a weird circumstance at the White House,
and then I got to know him. But when he
I went through three months where he never made fun

(20:10):
of me, which you know you're waiting for him to
make fun of you. Yeah, And when he finally did,
he invited my wife me to bring my wife and
go to his Hollywood Walk of Fame experience and it
literally was just it was Bob Newhart and his wife,
Dick Clark and his wife, and me and Fran And
when he met my wife, my favorite joke ever he goes,

(20:30):
oh my god, friend, he told me you were a dog,
which I think is an amazing joke. Is there a
generation of men that like to tell people my wife
is a dog?

Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah? No, it's so funny. It's that's what's great about
rick A lot of Rickles insults is like you can
you can smell when they when they were a hot term, right,
you know what I mean, Like she's a real dog.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Now it just works on rhythm alone.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Yeah, absolutely. Uh. Todd Glass the comedian went like loved
Rickles and went to see him, bought front row seats
and was just like here it goes. I mean he's
probably twenty two or something. Yeah, this is my shot.
And Rickles is going down the line like what's your name, sir, uncle,

(21:21):
book whatever, just doing all his like left SADDI rass
wats two fifty, you know whatever. And then he gets
to Todd and he's like, what's your name, Todd? And
Todd's like Todd Glass and he goes, nice to meet
you to seemed like a nice young man.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
The biggest insult of the worst.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, no, better insult than he could have written. He
could have hoped for it. It's so good, it's fantastic.
He saw Rickles and Frank Sinatra in concert, which I'm
I'm sure you did as well, maybe both of you did,
which I now I can't believe. Yeah, like who did
I But yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
It's like seeing Greek god, you know, it's Yeah, they
don't seem like earthlings you could have seen. I think
that was my first time meeting my wife, my in laws.
I took them as my guest because I'd written liner
notes for Sinatra. I got to take them to Long
Beach Arena to see Rickles open for Sinatra, and I
think that's the only reason I got married.

Speaker 4 (22:21):
I think that was where I saw them. Great.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Oh that was late in the day. Late in the
Sinatra was awfully late that day.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
I believe Frank had a teleprompter if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Oh yeah, absolutely, I think at least the last ten
And this is the amazing thing. I called to thank
the Sinatra people because they'd arranged my tickets. The next
He went to Mateo's Taste of Hoboken that night after
the show at one in the morning. They kept it
open and drank all night, and I thought that is
amazing that Sinatra was still being Sinatra at that late date.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
I mean, talk about committing to the bit.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
You you I heard you.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
I heard you say uh on Barbiglia's podcast that you
and Chappelle you went out to help write or help
Chappelle on the Robin Hood Men in Tights movie.

Speaker 4 (23:11):
I didn't help at all. I just went. He just
was like, come out and check this out. Both kind
of thing.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
So hang out. But then you had lunch with Mel.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
No, I had lunch with Mel Yeah, which is how
great is that? Come on, what do you want? I'm
like eighteen it's and you just got like what we
went to. I think we were at like you know,
I think the land pan a lot and went to
an editing that's probably back when I shot on film. Yes,

(23:43):
and yeah, unbelieva. You must be friends with mel.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Right, yes, but he doesn't. He doesn't get out much.
He doesn't even like going out much. But when you
get him out. I had dinner several months ago with
him over at Carl Reiner's daughter's house, and it was
just him and his manager and me and Carl's daughter.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
And he said, when we came.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
In, listen, my stomach's a little I'm not sure how
long I'll be four and a half hours, four and
a half hours. I was like, now I need to
go to bed.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
Is it? Is it just anecdote?

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Anakins, Yes, and story, just story after story and just
and he asks you a lot of stuff. He's not
just a But we go back now about twenty some years.
Because I befriended all these guys, Larry Gelbar, Carl Norman

(24:42):
and I would put together these dinner parties where we
would get together and they would come and sometimes.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
They were they all friends in their heydays. Was there
any competition or they were all legitimately like friendly.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
There might have been some friendly competition, but a lot
of them except for Norman wrote together.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
On your show of shows.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
That's right, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
I mean we had lunches with Neil Simon.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yeah, I mean it was, it was.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
I could pinch myself now thinking about it. I'm so
glad that listen for anyone's listening. If you have idols
out there who you think they don't want to see
you or talk to you, if you take an interest,
have you ever done that, called somebody that you've vitalized
and taken them to launch or gone to see them.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
I'm trying to think. I mean, the the funny one was,
which is like really flies in the face of what
you're saying, is I believe at Chappelle's shows heyday, Yeah,
I asked if I could meet Carl Reiner and and

(25:54):
I believe the message I received was what about Oh
so that not great? Not great, not a great experience,
but I but it generally works. I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
I had twenty three lunches with Carl Reiner thanks to
Phil and the warmest, nicest man I still last night
quoted his life advice, I said. Towards the end, I said,
you know, Carl, what's your best advice in life? He goes,
always pee before you leave. And I still believe that's it.
But by the way you talk about your heroes. Again,

(26:28):
this is just on the internet because I just watched
all your stand up specials in the last twenty four hours.
They're so brilliant. And then I try to think what
voices as possible influences could be. And again, reading online,
you hear I've heard names like David Brenner, Richard Lewis
Seinfeld obviously, but Mike Royce was the one that stood out.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
Is fun to phil if you can.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
I mean, how is Mike Weiss an influence?

Speaker 4 (26:53):
I don't think I've ever said David Brenner in my
in just for the.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Record, Wikipedia said it. So they shock me the wroth.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Well, they think I'm Jewish, which you know a lot
of times. Isn't that helpful on the internet? So uh, well,
Mike Royce. The thing with Mike Royce is the right
the guy that wrote for for Raymond and wrote for
created men of a certain age. It's like a great
writer and a bunch of stuff. But my brother was

(27:22):
a comic is a comic and started in when I
was in high school. So I used to go to
New York and I would have lunch with like my
brother Mike Royce, David Tell, and a guy named Dave
Dave Jesco, and they were both like they were just
so funny and I don't even know, I mean, looking back,

(27:44):
I don't I think they were really funny. And it
was also just like it was less inspiring, like in
terms of voice, and more inspiring in terms of like,
you can make a living. You can. It's you. You
can spin it into a job. You know, you can
spend just being a wise ass or whatever what we

(28:05):
used to call a wise ass into into a viable living.
And you too, one day can have a podcast. Yeah,
like that's that. Yeah, So the Heroes thing, I'm I'm

(28:25):
I'm absolutely with you. I just I've had a mixed
bag with it. But I think if you're I think
it's good advice, did I mean? And a weird in
a weird way. It's like they don't really give you
writing advice, did they? Did they give you writing advice? That?
If usable?

Speaker 1 (28:45):
If I asked about it.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
What like what sort of stuff would you ask them so.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
General ed Weinberger, the great uh sitcom.

Speaker 4 (28:54):
From Hill Street Blues is that now you're just testing my.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Taxi?

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Okay, I mean these were these were amazing shows that
the Cosby Show of the eighties, the famous one.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
He was Yep, as I'm writing the pilot for Raymond.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Any advice, he goes, H, do the show you want
to do because in the end they're going to cancel
you anyway. Yeah, that's unbelievably good advice. It's life advice.
We all get canceled one day, so live.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Your life canceled in one way or of course.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
So that that's just like a way to live. They
have this wisdom, right, they have. These these people they
went through it all. They've been through it all, all
the heartache and disappointment of show business, and they just
have a philosophy of You know, mel Brooks, did you
read his autobiography or even better, listen to it on audio,

(29:50):
because he reads.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
It maybe I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
He talks about this great story of getting notes on
Blazing Saddles from the studio head came to the first
screening in Westwood, and the studio head was appalled by
the things in Blazing Saddles.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
You can't say that word. You can't say that N
word in a movie. You can't have farting in a movie.
This is nineteen seventy four, it's never been done. You can't.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
And he's like, you're right out, he said, marking up
his script.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Out, it's out, it's out. Took twelve notes from the
guy and then didn't do any of them.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
Yeah, that's I love that one. That is that. I've
used that one.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
It's do the show you want to do because in
the end you're gonna get canceled.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
And that's that.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
Yeah. Do you think that the shows you worked on
prior to your show? Do you think the people you
were for were doing the shows they wanted to do?

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Sadly, yes, well, listen, not everybody has the same taste, right,
Could this happen? Didn't enter into many of the shows
I worked on, Yeah, And so I didn't have much
respect for them because the shows I grew up loving, uh,

(31:06):
Mary Tyler, Moore, Taxi, the Odd Couple, stuff that took
place on Planet Earth, you know, all the family These
were landmark, you know, brilliant shows that shaped the way I.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Thought about life.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Even let alone sitcoms.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
Yeah, the planet Earth thing is a big I remember
yelling that at Comedy Central we want the show to
take place on planet Earth exactly. It's a big It
sounds stupid, but it really is.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
But look at the shows that don't do that.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
You have to be such a great joke writer for
it to be unbelievable. And the example I always use
is thirty Rock. Thirty Rock was a sketch in sitcom form. Yeah,
but the joke writing was of such a high level
that you didn't care.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
You have to be that do it.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
Yeah, like Simpsons.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Exactly, which is more real than a lot of real
sitcoms in terms of feelings, emotional truth.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah, well it's also satire and like, yeah, it's everything. David,
did you did you always? Did you want to get
out of Were you looking at magazines as a sinking ship?

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Or were you just absolutely not? And I'm so lucky.
I talked to my kids like you do. I try
to tell them you have to look at like thet
trajectory of what you're doing your business, because I didn't.
I just fell into TV. And it was partly because
like when I met Phil, I started meeting a lot

(32:46):
of TV writers. I did a book called The Showrunners,
where I was like, I went into like news radio
and hung out with Paul Simms, and I was with
the Friends during you know, the Friends cast and the
Friends writers, and I realized you can write for TV.
And then I literally what happened was there was the
very funny comedy Heavy Show, the Tribute to Heroes Telethon,

(33:07):
and not et. I'd written for like a few MTV awards.
I've been asked to write jokes by Joel Gallen for
a few things, but then I fell nine to eleven
thing really needed joke exactly a lot of.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
I mean, speak for yourself, I thought.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
But the second one, Chris Rock told one joke. Not
at the nine to eleven one. It was like when
we got to Katrina. I remember thinking, okay, we've got
to the telethon. I forget the one joke, but I
remember Kanye.

Speaker 4 (33:36):
Yeah, you wrote Kanye's thing, right.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
We were there when Kanye I shook his hand. Yes,
we were there for that.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
That's when he was shaking Jew's hands.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
But no, I wish I was bright enough. You know
what's funny is like journalism really was falling off a Cliff,
and I did not know it. And whenever, I don't know,
if you do, you go back and do any.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
You didn't sense it, you didn't you didn't get this.
It wasn't budget cuts, it wasn't fewer assignments, it wasn't
any of that.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
No, because I had already, Like nineteen ninety four is
when Rolling Stone did a TV special, and that's when
I fell into it. I was writing for TV on
the side, and then pretty quickly I started making more
money on that than the journalism. So I just kept
a journalism as I sort of I had. You know,
I got married around that time, I had kids, babies, so.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
I was like, dog to the first dog you married,
I'm sorry to the dog. To the dog, she's gonna
love that a real dog.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Shouldn't we be talking about Neil a little bit?

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Okay, Yes, Neil, your last special is so fantastic, crazy good.
And I always say this, and that it seems to
be the heart of your special that you know, they
when we talk about, oh my god, that that that
comedian or that actor is so screwed up, I'm like, yeah,

(35:10):
sometimes the same thing that makes you good is the
same thing that makes you crazy and you tie it
all together.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
I mean, I don't think it's sometimes Phil, it's everyone.
I think I think it's everyone, and then there's exceptions.
You seem pretty sane, I mean again, but I'm not
that you're far rarer than I think you're the exception.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Well, that's very sweet.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
I think people like you are the exception.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Okay, so that's that's very sweet of you to say.
But let me ask you this now, are you worried,
now that you have a what seems to be a
beautiful relationship in a somewhat quote unquote normal situation, are
you worried you're going to be less funny?

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Now? No, and I'll tell you why, as I'm not
that good.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
At it, at the relationship or the comedy.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
I'm not that good at it. I'm like, I'm I'm
I found myself recently being like, I'm pretty good at this.
You know what I'm really good at is that stand up.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
But we just had lunch and you appeared very happy
with what's going on.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
I am very happy with what's going on now. Now
is she let's get her, she's a real dog. Let
me this broad's a real much this? Yeah, So, I

(36:47):
mean yeah, she is happy. But I think, I mean,
I do you I find that Uh, I don't know
either they either she did. I just find that, like
I find stand up to be like a respite from

(37:07):
Like I said, I'm pretty good and it takes a
lot of focus, whereas stand up and writing jokes and
thinking of jokes is more I'm more fluent, it's like
less laborious.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
But look, you're committing to You're in Hawaii. We're talking
to you from Hawaii. Your is this her house? Your
house something you brought together?

Speaker 4 (37:26):
What's it's a house.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
You're willing to commit to that.

Speaker 4 (37:32):
I'm willing to commit that. It's a safe house.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
It's a real dog house.

Speaker 4 (37:36):
It was a real dog.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
It's a Yeah, it wasn't either of yours before. No, Okay,
so this is a this is a very nice thing.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
It is extreme. Yeah, I agree, it is very nice.
But I don't think that I think a lot of
the it. I think that thinking that a romantic partnership
is the I think it we overstated as a gauge
of sanity because I think a lot of people, a

(38:10):
lot of people, a lot of bad. Hitler was in
a was in a pretty great relationship with Eva Bront.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
And he loved dogs.

Speaker 4 (38:17):
He hey love dogs, including he seemed fairly troubled in retrospect.
So so I think it's, you know, it is a
bit like where people try to I think it's you know,
when when oil companies do one of those commercials about
how they're committed to the environment. I think people can

(38:38):
kind of, uh maritally wash themselves like greenwashing. There's some
sort of whitewashing with with with like look at me,
look at my family. I think it can mask a
lot of nonsense. But now having said that, I am
good and maybe I am most funny audience, you be

(38:59):
the judge.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
So your next are you already working on your next special?

Speaker 4 (39:04):
Yeah? Yeah. And the thing that I was like sort
of focusing a lot on the relationship and then fairly
recently I just got ambitious again. Yeah, And I think
part of the ambition is like getting I think a
lot of stand up especially or at least the way
I do it is like born out of dissatisfaction. And

(39:26):
then whether it's cultural or like just you get bombarded
with nonsense and you're like, wait a minute, may I
may I say something? And so it feels like I
have enough agitation to say something at this point.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
But that doesn't mean you need to be miserable at home.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
No, I've never, But I gotta say I've never. I've
never been one of those like you gotta be miserable
to uh be creative. I think that's a that's I
think that's like I think it's a thing that artists
hide behind.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
But then you're healthier than ninety percent of the people
out there.

Speaker 4 (40:08):
Maybe I mean comedians are humans.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Maybe both.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
I just think people use it as a rationalization for
for being like I gotta do drugs, yeah, or I
can't paint like oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Well, speaking of which, I have to ask you because
I wanted to ask phil ayahuasca. Man, I'm even pronouncing
it correctly what you've spoken about in your life? Like
I my unique people since college At my college paper
because I was a rock critic asked me to buy
pot for me. And I never was interested in any drugs.

(40:44):
I have only done them professionally in my entire life,
like five times where bands said you have to get
high or you have to leave the room literally, except
for one time with an old girlfriend on a Mexican beach.
I tried magic mushrooms and it's the one thing I
ever liked, and I liked it so much, I said
I'd better stop because my family history with my mother

(41:06):
having some issues and all that, I better not never
have this again. But it made me wonder.

Speaker 4 (41:11):
I want to get what you have. You have had
some addiction in your family.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
My mom was a you know, yes, my mom had
some issues. You know that she was a manic depressive
who was not diagnosed, so she had and to give
her and she so just you know, I just always my.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
Brother diagnosed until she wasn't diagnosed until this podcast.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Just letting her know. But Phil, have you ever tried
anything that sort of have you ever?

Speaker 1 (41:40):
The closest I've come to mushrooms was my mother's problem,
which was a can of cream of mushroom soup, which
was a.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
I'll send to both of you. Actually that that's in
the New Yorker today about Michael Pollen, who wrote How
to Change Her Mind, wrote a piece about one bunch
of clergy, priest, rabbis, et cetera. Did mushrooms yeah at
Johns Hopkins, and ninety six percent of them said it

(42:11):
was the top five spiritual experiences of their life.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
And they married a shisa the next day.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
All all they left immediately left. The priests no, but
they actually said it made them better at their jobs,
like it had all these positive.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
So shouldn't we be trying this?

Speaker 4 (42:27):
I would suggest you you look if yeah, I think
you should. You're you're a You're skittist though, right, Phil,
that's your diagnosis.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I'm a little nervous.

Speaker 4 (42:39):
Yeah, that's all right, I mean it's a little I
mean there's a funny quote in the article where one
of the priests said, and it mirrors what I told
Phil at lunch. One of the priests said, I'm scared,
and the practitioner said, you should be. You're about to meet.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
God, which is what happened to you. You told me.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
Yeah, basically, yeah, I said, it's the difference between reading
the Bible and being Noah. Reading the Bible. You're reading
the Bible. You take certain hallucinogens in my experience, mushrooms, ayahuasca,
a few other ones, and and there's a chance you'll
meet God. There's a good chance, there's a better than

(43:19):
even even odds that you'll meet God.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Who doesn't want that?

Speaker 1 (43:22):
But but tell us without if I hope we're not
getting too heavy for the podcast. But you said you
were an atheist, yes, okay, and now you're not, but
that it doesn't mean that you're affiliated with any one religion.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
No, you.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
God exists.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
I'm not religious. Yes, I'm not religious, but I do
not believe that gay people should be allowed to drive.
So it's a weird. I'm taking bits and piece. God
personally came bigotry from every religion, one random bigotry. No,

(44:05):
and I'm no fish on Mondays the Yeah, so I
I basically was just like an atheist and then I
did it, and I was like, oh and and and
I thought about our conversation. In fact, Mark Maren, I'm
sure you know the comedian when I did his podcast,

(44:28):
he kind of was like, people get mad if you're
if they're more atheistic or agnostic. And you say, like
I was, now I'm not, they get mad like, hey, wait,
what do you what do you mean? And I'm and
I and the analogy I thought recently was like it's
a bit like I can't prove it, but it's a

(44:50):
bit like being in love, Like I can't prove that
I'm men that love exists. I'm just saying that the
experience I'm having is a spiritual godlike experience.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Are you able to describe the God you met or
what God is?

Speaker 4 (45:14):
It wasn't. It wasn't in my experience. It wasn't a person. No,
it wasn't personified or I didn't think so anthropomorphized, right,
But it was like I called the central creation force,
just like something the thing that animates everything. I got

(45:36):
a sense of. And do you think the from whether
it's you know, the ocean, trees, rocks, humans matter, whatever,
like the animating thing I got a sense of, like
it that is a thing that exists beyond humans creation

(45:56):
and and yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Some people call that the divine plan.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the thing is it's you know,
I think I said to you, I like all of it.
The funny thing is when religions fight, it's a it's
the Freud quote about the narcissism of small differences. It's like,
do you know how much you agree on? Of course,

(46:22):
in fact, like Islam and Judaism especially, it's like it's
like a romantic comedy where they're dating the same guys,
like it's the same. Well, no, mine lives at the
temple Mount. It's the same building you nailm skulls.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
You have no idea how much that resonates with me.
As the one of the rare Jewish winners of the
Muslim Public Policy Award two thousand and one, I won.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
With Use Hard to Do.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yes, I won with uf Islam Kat Stevens, the artist
formally known as Kat Stevens. And I did have this realization.
Even I was not on mushrooms. They might have served mushrooms.
But at that dinner there was a Muslim comedian, a
Muslim comedian who said something like, uh, made a joke,
and I remember going, oh my god, it's the same
joke i'd be hearing of a Jewish Yes, you know function,

(47:11):
it's the exact same energy, and it's like, what do
we it really is, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
It's the thing I said to fill at lunch, which
is like, it's basically just a franch It's like a
burger franchise. It's like, well, we're going to take whatever
we're going to take Africa, you take Asia, will you know?

Speaker 1 (47:30):
So we're putting mustard, so we have to kill you right?

Speaker 2 (47:34):
No?

Speaker 4 (47:34):
Basically, yes, yes, it's insane. Yes, so that's the so
I so it is like a very potent spiritual thing.
And and and in within the Michael Pollan.

Speaker 5 (47:44):
Article, it talks about how a lot of a lot
of a lot of like religious experiences are maybe based
on hallucinogens like Paul on the Road to Damascus or
any of those like popular famous.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
Yeah experiences.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
They didn't have the phone, you.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
Know, they could finally focus.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
They didn't have the focus.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
But what the God, the God that you feel you
know now, is there? Do you see the force as positive,
negative or everything?

Speaker 4 (48:20):
I see it as neutral, meaning that there is no
moral like if a wave, you know, if a tsunami
comes and wipes me away. It's nothing personal. It's not
you know what I mean. It's not because I was sinfuller,

(48:42):
because I was. It's just it's just like I don't yeah, man,
it's just like it's a thing, all right. We just
got a lot of I got a lot going on.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
So we have total free We don't blame God for
the Holocaust. We don't blame God for the terrible things
in the world.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
No, I mean, and I nor do I credit you know.
It's a bit like very Fallwell saying the tornado came
because of the gaze, which is you know, yes, well,
but I always say, like, you know what I always
want to say, like what about all the sunny days?
Is that for the gaze too? Is that God approving
of the gaze? Like yeah, like there's so so there's

(49:25):
it's it's just nothing again, this is just my understanding.
It's it's it's in some ways, it's like hearing about
somebody's dream they had last night, like that's just what
happened to me and I don't but.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
It's more than a dream for you now, it's this
is you believe this, Yes.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
But I'm saying I can't really prescribe it. And I
think any ethics or morals people have, I think like
they're probably innate. Yes, it's a bit of a golden
rule thing where it's like I don't want to create
hardship for a human being. I don't want hardship for myself.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
I keep saying that this, if we just went by
that rule doing to others, if we just did that everything.

Speaker 4 (50:11):
You're the only person who's ever said it too, which
is he got the copy, was so excited about it.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
I don't know who else said it, but but I
believe it and.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
I'm going to sue them.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
That's right, Neil, Neil, I know you were not Jewish
when I realized how many brothers and sisters you have,
I don't know any Jewish families with that many kid Orthodox.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
Yeah, I guess that we'd be Orthodox. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Were you the runt of the litter?

Speaker 2 (50:36):
I mean, this is a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
I was the uh, yeah, it's a lot of people.
I don't I was sort of. I mean my mom
actually she told me recently that she said to my dad, like,
we got to get to the hospital. This one might
just fall out wow at number ten, which is a
pretty grisly joke. But but yeah, like it was. I

(51:01):
was very well treated by my brothers and sisters for
the most part.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
So you didn't feel you needed to get into show
business just to get attention.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
I guess. I guess, I like maybe from my parents
or something, or from my dad, but I don't. I don't, Yeah,
I guess, I don't know. It's like, if you're funny,
it's a good way to make a living.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Listen, I had one brother and felt I had to
get into show business.

Speaker 4 (51:29):
He was far more direct than mine, Like I may
have been the Golden Child. Wow, So I can't say
that I was. I was looking to, you know, best someone.
Uh and then the fact that you make your brother
film you now is just absolutely cool, not just payback.
I mean you want to talk about vindictive.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yeah, he gets He wasn't.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
Even a he didn't even he wasn't even a cameraman
before you got the show. You made him, You made
him do it. I mean it's it's it's it borders
on violent.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
But you see what he makes me do. I mean
he he no.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
Eat all eating, all that eating food and exotic locations.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
No, no, no, he makes me all the other stuff
in between that. You see what he does?

Speaker 4 (52:17):
Yeah? Fair enough, fair? Yeah, do you work with your brother?
I not? No, not not so much. We we did
a couple of pilot back back then, back in the nineties,
back when they were giving comedians pilots.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
But and where's he now?

Speaker 4 (52:36):
He's in uh, New Jersey. He's in New Jersey. But
he's still does spots and tours and all that. Yeah,
that's nice. So so yeah, so I can't say that
that I would recommend. I mean, I would recommend psychedelics

(52:57):
for people, but they're not they're not for the faint
of heart. I'll say that I want to. I actually
had the thought, David, could we guess what bands made
you do drugs? Sure?

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Yes, you probably get it in the first one of them,
in the first.

Speaker 4 (53:11):
Bad What years were what era? Uh?

Speaker 2 (53:15):
One was a tour I believe by two of the
biggest bands of the late eighties early nineties.

Speaker 4 (53:25):
The Monsters of rock.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
It or I will I will tell you it was
guns and Roses and skins.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
I saw I saw that tour.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Oh yes, that was one, and uh, I'm trying to
think of another the time. I always tell them again,
my kids, you know, they know I'm what a wimp
I am? How I don't do anything interesting? I always
had the one reversed kids in this instance do drug
story is? I was once at the house of Tom
Petty when there were two other Willbury's there, and Tom

(53:57):
said to me, David was like a Christmas Day and
he said, we're gonna go get high in his little
private room so that the kids couldn't see. You know
what he was doing. You want to get high with us?
And I said, oh, no, thank you, Tom Petty. I
don't want to get high with the other Willbury's and
I realized, I always say, kids, if more than one
Willbury ask you to get high, you sued to do it.
I should have.

Speaker 4 (54:17):
Done it legally. It's like a. It's like a, it's
your cursed if ex exactly did you ever? I had
a sweet one time that got very popular where I
was talking to a buddy of mine about how old
the traveling Willberries were because they seemed so old.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
They were in their forties, right, younger than all of.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
Us, None of them were. I'm gonna I have it
on my phone. It's it's a miracle, how like you
cannot believe how young they were relative to how old
they seemed. Hold on one second, I have it in
a folder because it's it's a it's a I do
this right.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
I bet you only Roy Orbison was like above fifty
or maybe something like that.

Speaker 4 (55:02):
It was crazy, and by the way, not not by much.
I'm gonna go landscape and I'm gonna hold it up
to the phone.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
Oh my god, right, he was just over the fifty.
He was fifty two. We're seeing Neil's phone and it is.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Petty was only thirty seven.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
Bob Dylan forty seven, right, Jeff Lynn forty one, Tom
Petty thirty seven, Roy Orbison fifty two, crazy and uh.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
And they were singing about the end of the road.
Then the end of.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
The Road George from the Beatles forty five, which it
all seems impossible. Hold on, this is about to get loud. Here,
hold on one ticket. Uh.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
By the way, I got another one for you guys.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
Are you there? Yes? Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
You know how old Carol O'Connor was when he played
Archie Bunker.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
I think I've looked this up at how old? Wow,
unbelievab Yeah, and that was after Heat of the Night, right, Well, no,
he wasn't in Heat of the Night. He was in
the remake, right, that was after but he was still
Yeah yeah, is that incredible?

Speaker 2 (56:26):
But that's what old was then.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
Yeah, it's I guess it's like, do you think men
now have less credibility because they don't seem as grizzled? Yeah? Well,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
That's why Phil really has to be because he looks
less grizzled by sitting next to me at all times
on the podcast.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
They it's all, it all makes sense that theory of relativity.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Neil, I want to talk about Hawaii just a little bit. Yeah, please,
how long you've been living there?

Speaker 4 (56:55):
Now we've been here, nah, ten months.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
And you're on Oahu.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Yeah, you're near place called.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Let's not ask to be addressed.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
No, No, it's too much. Does it feel like you're
in America when you're there.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
It's the best. My girlfriend had lived in Asia, she
lived in Singapore and Hong Kong, so and I enjoy
Asia as like, yes, a place to visit because it's
so exotic, relatively Europe and.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
And many Asian people live in Hawaii and the.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
Culture people live in Hawaii. No one knows why, no, yeah,
the but so we were kind of just I just
didn't want to be in la like a year ago. Yeah,
And then we were thinking about places and and then
I was like, how about Hawaii. I've been here a
couple of times for a few days, and uh. And
then we came for a month and it was great,

(58:00):
the good part, it's the best part of a tropical climate.
And then there's like a target seven minutes away. And
I'm not talking about like a military target. I'm talking
about target, the store target. There's a whole food and
a target. Like that's kind of all I need, you know,

(58:23):
so so like it has the creature comforts, it's got infrastructure,
it's got sewers, it's got all the stuff you want,
and it's gorgeous. Super I don't know, just it feels.
It feels America America, but like slightly less.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
So yeah, I mean, if we didn't have it as
a state, it would be another country because it's just
it's so exotic for us.

Speaker 4 (58:52):
Well, you know what's great about it actually to that
point is there's no the tourism isn't there's no dumbasses
because it's too far away to go drink, do you
know what I mean. Like it doesn't have like a big,
big alcohol there's no like signor frogs or one of

(59:14):
those Cancun places. There's no infrastructure built around spring breakers
and dumb asses.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Huh.

Speaker 4 (59:20):
And like it's just it's at nine thirty pm is
late here, Like there's very little happening right, which I
I again, that's part of that New York LA thing.
It's like that used to be a big incentive of
like you go to New York and it never sleeps
in LA. I mean yeah, but then you get now

(59:41):
I think it's less there's less reason to stay up late.
I wake up kind of at sunrise here, which I've
never done in my life without an alarm, just like ah,
the sun like. So it's a better, it's a it's
a it's a good way to live now. Having said that,
I don't know that we're going to stay here, but
it's been a great year. That's wonderful.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Have you done any of the real Hawaiian things where
you get up at four go up to the top
of the mountain to see the sunrise from there?

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
Yeah, there's a there's a hiking trail right near us
that we went to with the pill box, the kylou
of Pillbox. I think it's for like military thing. And
we did Pearl Harbor, yeah, which which was a bad
which was a bad attack, but it did spawn David's
television writing career.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
So hilarious. Actually, I think I only went to Pearl
Harbor with you. We did it, We did it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
And it was just an amazing education to do that
little tour boat. When they when you realize it was
all about the oil that we were we were yeah, right,
and then you look over the side of the boat
and the oil is still coming up metaphorically and symbolically,
it's still literally coming up from the hull of the ship.
It's all about the oil. The whole thing was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
One question about your girlfriend is did she settle you?
I loved and your your your your discussion of all
women settling, Did she settle for you?

Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
It's a good question because what happens is I mean,
it's she's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
I know, the dogs settled for me.

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
I mean she's settling in certain departments, you know what
I mean, She's settling in like there are better looking
people than me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
There are people on this podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
Well again Present Company excluded the the uh the but yeah,
like but then you like, you know, I'm I have
a good career. I you know, I have resources, I
have some status. I think it's it's yeah, I'm an
earner what they call an earner, so like, you know,

(01:01:55):
it's it's it's a mixed bag. I mean I think
that's guys do get to play the game. It's a
bit like that other joke I did about like the
video game character where like you get certain amount of
points for you know, comedy and then none for in
my case, empathy, not none, but like just a lower

(01:02:18):
I just I'm sorry, Like I'm over indexed in these
other areas. So it's just you have to you have
I think she has to get a lot of perspective.
She as often has to remind herself of, like I'm
in the aggregate. It's a it's good, but like there
are there are areas in which I.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Last well, if I can say, is someone who I
just when Phil told me we're gonna have to talk
to you today, I did go. I wanted to rewatch
all the all the stand up specials. And I will
say that as a result of your emotional growth, some
of it may be delayed or you know, in fits
and starts your stand up specials. I have this thing
where I used to love stand up specials, and I
really a lot of people I burned out on watching

(01:03:01):
their specials. Your specials are a fent I almost uniquely.
Each one feels different, the different stage of growth, a
different angle into life, and I feel like every one
of them is worth revisiting and and funny in different ways. Yes,
so I interest you play with.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
The form even and you're you're you're just an innovator
in that way, You're really one of my You know what's.

Speaker 4 (01:03:24):
Really funny is a woman, a couple people with on
the on the last one where like I wasn't sad
and I did a show uh in d C. And
a guy messaged me afterward and was like, what was that?

(01:03:45):
I kept waiting for you to show up? Wow, So
basically the guy was upset that I wasn't sad and
so for some people to go. But by the way,
like the last one was way more popular than the
sad one. So people don't want sadness. They want they
want a lightening lightness and merriment and they want you know, comedy.

(01:04:08):
So like, but yeah, when people don't like it, that's
funny to me in its own way of like when
people go like, no, I didn't like the new one.
It wasn't sad enough. I respect it. But so it's
not so every special is not for everyone. But I
appreciate note you noticing that that I'm trying to make different.

(01:04:32):
It's hard to make a lot of I mean, I
remember talking to somebody about like, how many good specials
can a person have right in their life, in their career, right,
And I think the number we came to back then
was four or five. It might have been three, but

(01:04:54):
let's say three to five. Who do you think has
the right Carlan did seventeen ors, I mean Carlon did
sevent I think Kathy Griffin did nineteen. I think I'm
probably wrong about the numbers. But but you know, I mean,
as much as people love saying like if Carlin were
alive and all that stuff, it was like Carlin had
some garbage, Like George was an amazing comedian, but like

(01:05:16):
he also had like he liked a fart joke.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
And he also liked to sometimes just come on stage
and talk about whatever was on his mind in that
moment and without even going for laughs.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
Well, yeah, I think it got less joking towards the end,
it got more like monology and then he do a
Pirouet commentary yeah, which again is fine. Yeah, but I
guess it's it's uh, the idea that you can be.
I mean, it's also a weird thing of like how
good do you have to be? That's almost the thing
that is in my favors, like, because I'm not a

(01:05:54):
walking charisma machine like a lot of my peers. If
my jokes aren't really good, they do not work, literally
do not work, like not, I can't feather them in
I can't. It's like, so, so that's like the the
upside of the certain deficiencies.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
But your writer's commanion and the material is great. You know,
we talked about the people we don't have to say
who they are who substitute uh performance for material because
the material is strong, or even if it is strong,
they kill it with over selling it.

Speaker 4 (01:06:37):
Yes, and I in some ways I consider them lucky
in that they have maybe the jobs easier for them. Yes,
it's just I agree. But but then there's also a
they're more popular, which isn't say I'm not popular, but
I'm just saying like that there are people that are less.

(01:06:59):
I mean, I friends that have that do arenas that
are like I'm bad, so so like relative to how
good they used to be. It's also like taking the
time to make the material instead of serving a lot
of people, just serve the market, which is like I
gotta I have a system set up where in the
fourth quarter I make you know what I mean, Like

(01:07:21):
that's make a certain amount of money.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
So I got it, you know, Yeah, but that's a
special level of hell to think or know that you're
bad or hacky but you're selling out arenas and you
have to go out there and be hacky to think
that you think.

Speaker 4 (01:07:37):
You don't if the incentive is something, I just think
it's you replace. You know how human beings are incredible
at just coming up with bullshit to tell themselves. Yeah,
I think they just you just tell yourself. It's that
you're playing a different game. Yeah, you know what I mean,
because it's you know, it's not like I I think

(01:07:58):
I'm good. I know I'm not as good. I mean
that's a sort of think about the person who said
that to me. But but so I think it just
becomes a different incentive of like, I want to reach
a certain financial level because no one in my family
has ever went to you know, my family. My dad
worked until he died. So I want to make sure
that generations of my family are you know or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
I'm more impressed with in my experience being around funny people,
as I was with Richard Pryor at the very end
when he was you know, in his house.

Speaker 4 (01:08:31):
At his funniest I'm kidding, no, but.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
In one moment he could barely communicate it was it
was really sad.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
And he was I think, you know, talk about committing
but I.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Just at one point, like his his ex wife who
was helping him through things, said something like, Richard, we
got to move. Where are we gonna go? Where we're
gonna go? And and uh, I, just trying to get
a reaction for him, said maybe go back to Peoria.
And in his he's you know, in this sort of vice,
couldn't move, couldn't really communicate well. But he did say,

(01:09:04):
what the fuck did I ever do to you? And
I thought, yeah, oh my god, he's given you know,
he's still and he smiled. He liked, you know, the
fact that he could give me ship back for telling
him to go to maybe Peoria. And he was, yeah,
he was still Richard Pryor in there.

Speaker 4 (01:09:20):
David. You know, that's kind of a self serving story
where you said something fine, just so you know you
made it, you made you you know, you cloaked it
as like Richard Pryor was great. Here's something funny, I said.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
What I really mean is I deserve the dog that
I'm great? Yes, Neil, When is your next special going
to be ready?

Speaker 4 (01:09:40):
I don't really know. I think I'll probably tour in
probably six months, I hope, and then I don't know,
a year from now do you be.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Can you work out in Hawaii? Do you go to
Honolulu and go to Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
I did. I did two spots this weekend. Actually great,
Yeah it was great. It was it was very exciting
at a new thing that worked, and then and tried
it again and it worked again, and I added and
then I tried a new thing that didn't work, and
uh and yeah it was pretty. It was pretty. There
was a yeah, I won't say that, but yeah it
was so, yeah it is nice. And then and then

(01:10:15):
and then uh yeah, so fingers crossed will there Because
that's the thing is, I don't assume I'm not going
to tour unless I have good Yes, I'm like, I can't.
I'm not just it's not just like an evening with
That's what I know. Well, I don't mean it in
that derogatory way because you don't have it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
But it is I can't get up and tell jokes,
so when you come and see me, it is an
evening with.

Speaker 4 (01:10:41):
But I mean what I mean is like that when
somebody's got no material, it just becomes like a sort
of like remember remember when I was great, and whereas
yours is like yours is like three months ago when
you were great.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
Are you going to be in Hawaii at the end
of August?

Speaker 4 (01:11:05):
I don't know, all right, No one knows, all right,
because where you're coming my evening with is going to
be there? Oh is that true?

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
Yeah? But if you were there, I take it at dinner.

Speaker 4 (01:11:16):
Where are you doing it?

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
I think it's called the Hawaii Theater.

Speaker 4 (01:11:20):
Great, that's a nice room.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
Ronnie Chang did his Netflix special there. Okay, so he's good.
So he's very good. Yeah, so you'll be back.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
You'll be back and forth here before then.

Speaker 4 (01:11:36):
Yeah, back and forth for the rest of my life hopefully.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Well. Uh, I'm so happy that we've become Uh, I'm
gonna say friends.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
Is that all right?

Speaker 4 (01:11:44):
Yep? Go say it?

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
Drop it no, because you're I happen to like smart
and funny people, and you're one of the smartest and
funniest and I'm just so happy to know you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Uh right back at you, and I'm happy to be
in the Paint's.

Speaker 4 (01:12:01):
David, you were at best a satellite and you're gonna
to live with that for the rest of your life.
And by the way, never use me in one of
your anecdotes. Like Neil Brennan toward the end was and
then to do a selfish and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Then he tells a joke that he thought was really funny.

Speaker 4 (01:12:20):
Yeah, and then I said, I was heard to have remarked, good, good,
good talking.

Speaker 6 (01:12:31):
Naked Lunch is a podcast by Phil Rosenthal and David Wilde.
Theme song and music by Brad Paisley, Produced by Will
Sterling and Ryan Tillotson, with video editing by Daniel Ferrara
and motion graphics by Ali Ahmed.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
Executive produced by.

Speaker 6 (01:12:43):
Phil Rosenthal, David Wilde, and our consulting journalist is Pamela Chellan.
If you enjoyed the show, share it with a friend.
But if you can't take my word for it, take Phil's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
And don't forget to leave a good rating and review.
We like five stars.

Speaker 6 (01:12:56):
You know, thanks for listening to Naked Lunch, A lucky
bastard's product.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Neil, Phil. Why should people tune into Naked Lunch this week?

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
Well, I enjoy Neil uh pissing all over you. I
think that's fantastic.

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
It was. I gave you a Rickles style pissing. Yes,
that means you finally be described as a Rickles style,
So tune into that. A nice young man. Thank you
for anything else.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Have a pew figure