May 28, 2025 • 36 mins
Watch Joe and Kailey LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
The White House will ask Congress next week to enact $9 billion of spending cuts into law — a small portion of the $175 billion in savings that Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency claims to have found.
The cuts — first floated in April but waylaid amid efforts in the House to pass President Donald Trump’s tax bill — would target funding for the Public Broadcasting Service, National Public Radio and foreign aid in the current fiscal year, according to an Office of Management and Budget spokeswoman.
The renewed interest in the rescissions comes as Musk has criticized the “One Big Beautiful Bill” that Trump favored — and which passed the House last week — because it would increase federal deficits.
Bloomberg Washington Correspondents Joe Mathieu and Kailey Leinz deliver insight and analysis on the latest headlines from the White House and Capitol Hill, including conversations with influential lawmakers and key figures in politics and policy.
On this edition, Joe and Kailey speak with:
- Republican Congressman Byron Donalds of Florida.
- Bloomberg Intelligence Financials Analyst Ben Elliot.
- Bloomberg Politics Contributors Rick Davis and Jeanne Sheehan Zaino.
- Atlanta Mayor Andre Dickens
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at
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Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
(00:20):
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Joe and I, yes are in Washington, but we actually
have our eyes on Las Vegas at this hour with
the Bitcoin twenty twenty five conference is taking place. Remember
last year when it was in Nashville, then candidate Donald
Trump spoke before the conference, and today his now sitting
Vice President Jade Vance was the keynote speaker, talking a
big game about how this administration wants to be friendlier
(00:47):
for the crypto industry overall. Make it, of course, as
they've said often, the bitcoin capital of the world. Jadvance
today Joe saying, we want our fellow Americans to know
that crypto and digital assets and particularly bitcoin are part
of the mainstream economy and are here to stay.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
So helping us connect the dots between Las Vegas and Washington.
Here an actual policy from what goes on inside the
Venetian Resort to underneath the Capitol Dome is Byron Donald's
the congressman Republican from Florida's nineteenth is with us right
now on balance of power. Congressmen, welcome back. I hope
things are going well in Las Vegas.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Kaylee's right.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
It was Donald Trump's turn last year when he promised
America would become a bitcoin superpower under his leadership. What
changes need to happen right now to make that happen.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
Well, First, it's good to be with you. The first
couple of changes are going to be a legislation. We're
going to be moving through the Financial Services Committee this
summer one, dealing obviously with stable coin legislation. We've been
at that for a couple of years now under the
leadership of former Chairman McHenry who's now left Congress and
now chairman of french Hill. And then of course our
market structure legislation to create the regulatory framework for digital
(01:57):
assets overall, to actually have a rule so the road
where you have regulators understanding what their purview actually is
and unlike what was happening with Gary Gensler just making
up your purview as you go along, because.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
That's how you see that industry.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
So I think those those are steps one and two
for making bitcoin, as the President talks about the making
bitcoin the United States the bigcoin capital of the world,
you have to address a regulatory environment. You have to
create a clear regulatory system when it comes to stable
coins in particular, that will feed the engine for people
(02:33):
to bring more investments.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Into the United States.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
And then that's how the United States will become a
true leader when it comes to digital assets.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
But as all of that legislative effort, Congressman, and it's
great to have you on the program again, complicated by
the conflict of interest questions around President Trump knowing he
has a meme coin and attended a dinner last week
with investors in said meme coin that DJT, the media
company that literally bears his name, is raising money so
that it can buy a bitcoin. Does that add a
(03:04):
complicating factor to any kind of bipartis an effort in
advancing legislation like that when that's giving Democrats a lot
of noise to make, no, I.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Don't think so.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
There's a lot of Democrats on Capitol Hill who do
realize that digital assets are here to stay.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Bitcoin is here to stay. It's not going anywhere, and
so it's.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Time for the United States to actually take the necessary
steps forward to fully embrace digital assets. And so I
think what's going to happen is we're going to move
that policy out of the House. There are going to
be Democrats in my view, we're going to support both
packages in the House, and you're going to have Democrats
in the Senate support it. I think what what you saw,
and I think Democrats saw this by and large with
(03:43):
how they acted towards the digital assets industry under the
Biden administration, and you know, if you're here on the conference,
it was soundly rejected. I think people here understand that
you have to have clear rules for to the road.
You can't have regulators just picking and choosing how they're
going to look at digital assets. You simply can't. So
I think that to your question, I don't think that's
(04:04):
going to matter at all. We're talking about an industry
that it really has the potential to be a trillion
dollar industry here in the United States, and not just
to talk about the guys who are doing big things,
whether it's coinbase or any other company that's out there,
talk about the little guy people who are getting in
at the bottom of this industry who are finding an
(04:24):
opportunity to really build a company, really build wealth that
crosses party lines, acrosses demographic lines. And so we need
to lead on this and not be afraid of talking
points or other things that are going on.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
But as we consider building wealth, what if all of
this effort directly leads to further building the wealth of
the President of the United States. Do you not see
an issue their Congressman, Well.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
I would tell you that a rising tide lifts all boats.
You know, if Eric and Donn are doing things in
their personal capacities, that's fine, and that's all well and good.
That's America. I don't think people should be told that
you can't do business in our country. Actually, to be
blunt with you, it's better that these things are actually
out in the open for people to know and to see.
As opposed to what was happening under the previous administration,
(05:10):
where they were hiding how the family was making money.
They were hiding it from everybody. They were lying to
the American people. The president, President Biden, or the Auto
pen whichever one you choose, had to do preemptive pardons.
That stuff is ridiculous, that's outrageous. What we're talking about
is regulating an industry in a proper way so the
(05:31):
industry can thrive, it can grow, people can invest, capital
can be raised, and people, whether you're at the top
or the bottom, can get in. One of the things
that I'm so excited about digital assets is that when
we finally get the regulatory environment settled, you can do
things like fractional You can do fractional exchanges where people
can buy a fractional piece of real world assets or
(05:53):
a fractional piece of companies going forward. So if somebody
doesn't have, you know, fifty thousand dollars to their name
to invest, and they might have a couple hundred dollars,
it might have five thousand dollars under a fractionalized a
fractionalized tokenized exchange, you can invest in that. That helps
people grow their asset base, it helps them grow themselves financially.
(06:15):
In our country, that's a good thing. We should celebrate that.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Congressman, I want to ask you about the effort on
Capitol Hill that you're in the midst of right now
when it comes to reconciliation of the Trump tax cuts,
the spending cuts, and all the rest that comes with it. Here,
Caylee mentioned a moment ago that the President was just
asked in the Oval office about comments from Elon Musk
about the way this bill took shape in the House
and is now of course on its way to the Senate.
(06:39):
Let's listen to what he said and we'll have you react.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
I was like disappointed to see the massive spending bill, frankly,
which increases the bunch depths, if not doesn't decrease it,
and that reminds the work that the notes team is doing.
Speaker 7 (06:55):
I actually thought that when this big, beautiful bill came along.
Speaker 8 (06:57):
I mean, like everything he's done on dough gets wipes
out in the first year.
Speaker 6 (07:02):
I think, I think a bill can be can be
can be big, or it can be beautiful.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
It can be big or it can be beautiful. Congressman
that was with CBS, is Elon Musk wrong?
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Well, a couple of things. One in the package.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Obviously, we maintained all of the president's UH tax policy
and made a lot of it permanent, which is to
the betterment of of every small business owner, every American.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
We secure the.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Border, we actually build border wall, We modernize our defense department.
We do a lot of things that have been neglected,
especially over the last four years, that need to get done,
and we were able to accomplish that. When it comes
to spending cuts, yeah, Elon's right on this. We have
to do a much better job and making sure that
these DESA bills are at a minimum deficit neutral. But
what they need to do is decrease deficits. And so
(07:48):
that was a major sticking point for a lot of
conservatives in the House. They want to see real spending
cuts in these packages. I know that there's a recisions
package that the that the House has and possession. We
need to move that to the floor and do that immediately.
A lot of the DOGE cuts are in that recisions package.
We should be voting on that at the end of
the day, before you get to bills or how any
(08:11):
of that looks like. I look at the bond market
and one thing is crystal clear. The bond market is
looking at the United States and they are saying, you
better get your fiscal house in order, or we're going
to charge you more to borrow money. No nation can
thrive under that kind of a scenario. So we have
to be serious on Capitol Hill. Last thing I will
say is the President and his team. They did a
(08:31):
tremendous job of trying to get this bill through the House.
Some of the sticking points on why we didn't cut
more spending was because of Republicans who, to be blunt,
we're concerned about their re elections and their districts as
opposed to making sure that we put the fiscal health
of the nation forward to have that be the number
one thing we're concerned about. So I think that as
(08:51):
this bill goes through the Senate, the Senate's going to
make changes, it will come back to the House and
if for future packages, I'd urge my colleagues we have
to take our deficits in our debts seriously because if
we don't get this under control, the bond market is
going to come for everybody. I don't care if you're
a Republican or Democrat, it does not matter. The bond market.
Charging higher rates for treasury bonds is going to be
(09:13):
a major issue that really could hurt the United States
over the long term, if not.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Sink us well on the bond market. Congressman White House
Trade advisor Pete Navarro just penned an op ed about
that today in the Hill, saying that the bond market
is wrong about Trump's tax bill. It misses the substantial
positive revenue impact of tariffs. What's your take on Navarro's argument.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Well, I agree with Peter when it comes to the
President's tax policy and even some tariff policy. Yes, those
are revenue raisers, and I would argue that when you
get out of the frankly, the negotiating around what the
economic growth rates are going to be on Capitol Hill,
that was a negotiation. It's not about what's going to happen.
I think things in the President's tax package, obviously Section
(09:57):
one ninety nine A being continued and now permanent one
hundred percent expensing over four years, no tax on tips,
no tax on overtime. I think all those things are
going to be stimulative to the economy. But I think
what the bond market is really talking about is our
deficits and our debts and the velocity of borrowings into
the future. That's what we have to get under control.
(10:17):
I would argue that if the bill was deficit neutral
coming out of the House, Moodies would not have downgraded.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
I'll tell you that right now.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
I think they would have, and so I think that
those are the things that the bond market is looking at.
It's not tax policy. Peter is correct when it comes
to tax policy. Totally agree with him on that. But
the bond market is looking at the deficit projections, the
debt projections of the United States. We have to take
this stuff seriously. There are real reforms that need to
happen in Washington, DC. And so that's the stuff that
(10:46):
when you look at future pieces of legislation when it
comes to deficits and debts, that's the stuff that we
have to get to get serious about.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
This is fascinating for us to hear. Congressman in our
remaining moment, Are you quietly hoping the Senate cuts spending
further when it gets its hands on the bill?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Oh yeah, of course.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
Listen. I am all for cutting spending. And look, let's
be clear on this. I know that there are a
lot of Americans to say, well, if you cut spending,
is that the thing that I use? And I will
tell you that the federal government weighs so much money,
we could actually do more when it comes to spending
and actually not hit vulnerable populations. I'll give you an example.
There was a lot of conversation around Medicaid and this bill,
(11:26):
the Democrats are saying, oh, Medicaid is to pay for
tax cuts. That is a lie that is simply not true.
The reason why it's a lie is because when the
Democrats were in charge, they did not touch Donald Trump's
tax policy. They left it in place because it's good
tax policy. So what the real argument is in medicaid?
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Should the federal.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Government be spending nine dollars for every one dollar that
the state spends on able bodied adults with no kids,
versus the same federal government paying a dollar thirty three
for poor kids, elderly people who were poor, and pregnant women.
That is a dichotomy set up by Barack Obama and Obamacare,
(12:05):
and it's terrible policy because what you've done is you've
expanded the Medicaid population for able bodied adults, and you're
actually disincentivizing state systems and hospitals from serving the most vulnerable.
So there are positions on the Hill that said, look,
let's try to rework some of this stuff. Let's do
more investment into poor people, vulnerable populations. Let's actually try
(12:28):
to take a stab at rural health and some other
issues that are happening in the country. But we have
to end this Medicaid expansion fallacy around essentially creating expansion
populations around Medicaid.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
You have to end that.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
One of the big reasons the Democrats want to keep
Medicaid expansion is not for health care. It's because they
want single payer health care. That was the reason they
wanted the public option back when they did the Affordable
Care Act back in what twenty ten, That was the
purpose of that. So there are conversations like that happening
on Capitol Hill where you can make changes to a
program like Medicaid, you can make sure people who are
(13:04):
on those programs are grandfathered in, their benefits don't get cut.
But going forward, the federal government says we're not going
to be funding able bodied adults going forward into the future.
We're going to make sure we prioritize vulnerable populations, people
who are truly in need. That's the kind of spending
reform that I think the bond market would say, you
know what, they're being serious. That's also the type of
(13:26):
spending reforms that I think the American people would get
behind because they'll be like, that makes sense. We should
be making sure that people who are truly vulnerable get
the help that they deserve.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
What about people who are vulnerable to the elements? Congressman,
And I ask you this knowing you would like to
be the next governor of Florida. Are you worried that
funding cuts in areas like FEMA and elsewhere, and as
we head into Atlantic hurricane season could leave states like
Florida more vulnerable in responding to disasters.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Well, look, I think that what you're going to see
is the reworking of FEMA, which is something I have
advocated for. I filed a bill with Jared Moscowitz, Democrat
out of Florida about getting FEMA out of Homeland Security,
having it being a direct report agency to the White House.
So I think I commend the White House on what
they're doing. President Trump is leading on this issue making
(14:17):
sure that FEMA is reformed. So I'm not concerned about that.
Knowing the President, knowing his team, they're going to be
there to make sure that people are getting every help
that they need and they deserve from the federal government
when disasters strikes. So I have no concerns about that.
But you do ask the real question about FEMA. FEMA
(14:37):
is a bureaucratic mess, and it has been for quite
some time. Go ask the people in North Carolina, they
will tell you. Ask the people in the in the Panhandle,
Big Band area, southwest Florida, my district, they will tell
you this. So FEMA needs to be reworked, reworked. I
commend the President for what he's doing. Let them go
through that process. But I will tell you Americans, Floridians,
(14:58):
they're going to get the help that they need.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
One disaster strikes from Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
All right, Florida gubernatorial candidate and current Republican Congressman representing
Flora's nineteenth district, Byron Donalds, thank you so much for
joining us here on Balance of Power Live from Las Vegas,
where Bitcoin twenty twenty five is underway. We'll have more
on crypto and its ties to this White House and
this president later on on the program, and our political
panel will join us straight ahead. Rick Davis and Jeanie
(15:25):
Shanzano will be with us here on Balance of Power
on Bloomberg TV and radio.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,
Cocklay and Android Atto with the Bloomberg Business App. You
can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship
New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
So thanks for joining alongside Kaylee Lines. I am Joe
Matthew in Washington, where it's back to the future at
the White House. Kaylee, at least when it comes to
Fannie May and Freddie, you may have feel like you've
seen this movie before. Donald Trump says he's working. That's
the quote on taking Fanny and Freddie public, adding more
to suggest the government will retain guarantees and oversight for
(16:12):
Fanny and Freddie if in fact they are taking public.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
The question is how do you get it done?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, that if is a big if, and how you
get it done is a question we pose now to
Ben Elliott, Bloomberg intelligence analyst for financials, who is here
with us in our Washington, d C studio. So, Ben,
obviously this idea isn't anything new. In fact, it's something
that many Republicans have long advocated for since these went
into government conservatorship after the financial crisis. But how hard
(16:40):
is it to actually implement? What would it actually even
look like?
Speaker 7 (16:44):
Yes, so it's an incredibly hard process. Right, the Trump
administration had four years to work on this, and they
didn't accomplish a whole lot at the end there, But
they have all that work on the shelf. They could
they could pull it down and they could speed up
the process this time around. I think the markets today,
you saw the price action on Fanning and Freddy very positive.
I think that's a response that investors are happy to
see that the government would still have a role in
(17:05):
housing finance. But actually the process of determining how that
guarantee will work is much more complicated than just a post.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Well, that I guess is the question here, right, do
we have anything comparable is an example of how that
would work? And how much oversight would Wall Street withstand?
Speaker 7 (17:21):
Yeah, so there are analogs for how the government would
exit a stake. You know, the federal governmente a ton
of equity investments in the way of the financial crisis,
AIG being sort of the biggest one that everyone remembers,
and the government could follow that playbook to get out
of its stake and Fanny and Freddy, but there's no
analog for you know the role of gs's play in
(17:43):
housing finance and providing a fixed rate thirty year mortgage
to US home buyers. So that remains to be determined,
and it's very complicated.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Well, and to that point, what could happen to mortgage
rates themselves if we were to see the government offloading
Fanny and Freddie? Is there a risk that actually costs
to buy a home could go higher.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (18:04):
So if you look at the sort of spread of
agency NBS over Treasury, it's really moved very little as
a result of the President's latest post. So I think
that indicates that the bond market basically assumes there'll be
no change in how the securities are perceived. But you know,
if more credit risks were to come into the agency
NBS marketplace, then the securities would have to price higher
(18:25):
and that would be reflected in mortgage rates.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Really interesting and it's something that we'll keep tabs on
for you here, Ben Elliot with Bloomberg Intelligence. Great to
have you with this, Ben, it'll be a stranger on
balance of power. As we assemble our political panel. Rick
and Jennie are both with us Bloomberg Politics contributors with
our eyes on Elon Musk and some of the commentary
that he made in a series of interviews, not only
about the Doge, but about the President's big, beautiful bill.
(18:48):
Genie is Bloomberg politics contributor, Democratic analyst, and senior Democracy
fellow at the Center for the Study of the Presidency
in Congress, Rick are Republican strategist and partner at Stone
Court Capital. What do you make of this?
Speaker 9 (19:00):
Genie?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Elon Musk says, the bill can be big or it
can be beautiful. Apparently it cannot be both. Has Donald
Trump lost the man who ran the doge?
Speaker 9 (19:10):
He seems to have. And you know, I was thinking, boy,
that was quick. It was like literally over the weekend
he was cheap truthing. No, now he doesn't truth. He
tweets xing I should say about he was going to
spend twenty four to seven at work, he was going
to be sleeping on factory floors, and then all of
a sudden he's back in. Sort of sounded to me
a little bit like an exit interview bemoaning what is
(19:32):
going on in Washington, d C. I have to agree
with him on the bill. I don't think it's either well,
I don't think it's beautiful. I do think it is
very big, and I think he is right on the
question of the deficit in the spending. So I agree
with him on that, but I can't. I imagine his
investors are not happy that he's not sleeping on those
factory floors like he promised.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, of course, it's not just his investors that seem
to have paid attention into his comments. The Speaker of
the House seems to have been responding as well on
X Today Rick as he says Elon Musk in the
entire Doach team have done incredible work, and that the
House is eager and ready to act on Joje's findings
so we can deliver even more cuts to big government
(20:16):
that President Trump wants and the American people demand. He
says the two ways of doing that are acting on
a recisions package when the White House sends it to
the House, and then using the appropriations process to swiftly
implement the president's twenty twenty six budget. Does the Speaker
have a point that actually, this one big, beautiful bill
is not supposed to be where we see spending cuts materialize,
(20:37):
that that has to happen separately legislatively.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
Well, it can happen separately legislatively, But the reason you
use reconciliation is because it's easier to do. You don't
have to have a sixty vote majority in the Senate
to pass. And so if you're going to go deep
with the knife and cut government programs excess of what
the House attempted to do, then where are you going
(21:04):
to get the votes for it. You barely had the
votes to pass the big beautiful bill, and now everyone's
out criticizing it for not actually having cut enough. Chip Roy,
it must be doing, you know, a dance in the
House floor right now, because he's been saying that for
a month. And so when we heard Byron Donald start
(21:25):
talking about earlier on this program, how you know he
really feels frustrated by the inability to cut more into
the deficit. I mean, he was voting on this bill.
You could have stopped it and gone back and cut more.
Now as soon as the bills is sent to the Senate,
it's like, well the Senate needs to cut more. I mean,
(21:45):
it's really unusual for Washington to play this dance. But look,
the good news is everyone's focused on trying to cut
that deficit. And I do think that's a high priority
for both the Trump administration and Capitol Hill.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
I did have to wonder how many times in your
years in the Senate you heard somebody in the House
hoping that the Senate would cut further to make the
bill better. But you know, we're also concerned about Elon
Musk's feelings when it comes to the Doge Genie. He
did a couple of interviews. There was another one with
the Washington poach Post in which he talked about the
Doge as a whipping boy for everything quote so like
(22:22):
something bad would happen anywhere and we would get blamed
for it, even if we had nothing to do with it.
And we know that Elon Musk was bumping into members
of the cabinet just like he was lawmakers and members
of the voting public. But if you're swinging a chainsaw
around on stage at sea pack, shouldn't you expect to
offend somebody.
Speaker 9 (22:43):
You would think, right? You know, it sort of reminded me,
as good as he is at business, or brilliant as
he is at business, he's very very new to this
Washington DC game. Because you know, he was surprised that
he was being criticized, or what he said, blamed, and
Doze was being blamed and of course that suggests somebody
(23:03):
who hasn't spent a lot of time in Washington, d C.
Even Donald Trump today in his comments, tried to say, listen, Elon,
you know, we'd like to do other things, but the
reality is we need to get enough votes for passage.
And so, you know, I think Elon Musk sounds a
little bit naive sometimes when he talks about either Doze
(23:24):
or the cuts in these kinds of things that are
going on in Washington, d C.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, when he's talking about these things going off going
on in Washington, d C, knowing he's about to spend
a whole lot less time in Washington, d C. Rick,
is this actually when we see honesty coming into the picture.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
Well, I don't know if it's honesty.
Speaker 8 (23:46):
I mean, maybe a little naive to think that you
were going to go to Washington with the chainsaw and not,
you know, ruffle some feathers. But since why did Elon
Musk ever care about ruffling feathers. He's been ruffling feathers
since the day he was and thank goodness he has.
He's upended the space launch industry. He's got so many
other inventions that are revolutionizing technology. I really Actually, I'm
(24:11):
more concerned with the fact that he's now feeling like
he's got feelings and all of a sudden, you know,
because the dosing didn't quite work out. So what I mean,
rockets blow up and you keep working on it. In Washington,
you need to sort of pick your friends, and so
in this case, I think, you know, someone needs to
sit down with Elon and say, look, your friends, the
Trump administration, their followers probably are very happy with what
(24:34):
Doge accomplished. Rest you assured that will be your legacy
in Washington. Keep moving, launch some space, and look, save
a seat for me to go to Mars. I want
to be an easter planetary species.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Rick, I guess you're just gonna have to wait til
longer than next year. Genie, Is this a concerted pr
campaign to distance Elon Musk from all things Washington?
Speaker 9 (24:58):
Yeah, it absolutely could. I mean, it wasn't that long ago.
We were talking about the fact that everything he had
done on behalf of Doge had alienated the big base
of his of his buyers for Tesla, and so how
do you get those back? And of course the numbers
are really suffering. You distance yourself and we've seen him
do that on tariffs already, we're seeing him do it
(25:20):
big time when it comes to the issue of reconciliation.
So I do think there might be some of that
going on here. And of course also the fact that he,
you know, has long been disenchanted with Washington, DC and
the fact it's now being run by the Republicans and
Donald Trump's hasn't changed any of his feelings about it,
(25:41):
because of course Washington hasn't changed. Granted, it's only been
one hundred and what twenty thirty days?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Well, yeah, that's true. Who's still counting at this point?
I think it has been like one hundred and thirty days.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Right, that's right, end of April. Well, I guess that's true.
Elan's one hundred and thirty day Marcus Friday.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yes, end of the contract of the Special government Employee status.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
Rick.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
In our final minute here, what happened to the DOGE
caucus in Congress? Is it them that have to kind
of take the helm going forward?
Speaker 6 (26:10):
Here?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Have we all resigned ourselves to the fact that this
effort is maybe a lot easier to talk about than
to actually implement in reality, especially when it comes to
congressional recisions.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
Yeah, well, we see now there's sort of a remake
that DOGE is going to focus on upgrading and modernizing
the computer systems and government, which they desperately need to do.
So if it becomes something like that, which could be
fruitful for taxpayers and for those getting benefits from the administration,
(26:43):
then I think I think that would be a good
sort of second act. You know, we know that there
have been discussions about, like, gosh, why can't we operate
the federal government like American Express. You know, you can
get your you get things done in an easier way.
But at the end of the day, I think that
you're going to see sort of a limitation put on
(27:05):
DOGE because at the end of the day, it's hard
to get your job done if you're in Congress, and
to then have to deal with things like DOGE just
is a massive distraction. They're the ones who have to
cut the budget, They're the ones who have to create
these programs, not an outside entity.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
And Rick and Jeanie are the ones who have to
answer our questions here on Balance of Power Political Panel today,
Rick Davis and Genie Schanzeno, thank you so much, and
we have more of the program straight ahead, as we
sit down with the Atlanta Mayor, Andre Dickens next on
Bloomberg TV and Tredio.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on
Alma Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business Up.
Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch
us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
On Bloomberg Radio, Bloomberg TV on YouTube, and Bloomberg Originals.
As we try to connect the dots on the debate
here in Washington about tax and spend, with what's happening
in local and city governments, statewide governments as well, for
that matter, all over the country downstream, if you will,
from the decisions that are being made here in the
nation's capital. As Kaylee lines and I look forward to
(28:20):
talking with the Mayor of Atlanta, Kayley, We've heard a
lot of questions and asked a lot of questions about
the impact of cuts to Medicaid, the SNAP program, food stamps,
and it's an interesting equation for a mayor who doesn't
always have the flexibility to deal with debt and deficit
spending the way we do.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Here in DC.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Certainly, and considering that the federal government policies that are
affecting cities like Atlanta don't just end with potential cuts,
but also cuts they are making to things like the
Centers for Disease Control, for example, elsewhere that actually could
directly impact the Atlanta economy. So it's on that note
we do now turn to the Mayor of Atlanta, Andre Dickens.
Mister mayor, thank you for being with us here on
(28:59):
balance of power. Ask you weigh all of these different
policies and and the cutting policies in particular that are
coming from here in Washington, DC. How are you feeling
it at home?
Speaker 10 (29:11):
Yeah? At home, it's a little tough for uh, every
day at Lantin's, which are everyday Americans. Uh, when we
have tariffs that have increased the cost of goods, whether
that's at your grocery store or at your hardware store,
or the costs that it takes us to produce an
affordable housing unit. These things have increased under Donald Trump.
(29:32):
And it also affects us right here at home because
the CDC is headquartered here in Atlanta, and thousands of
people have been laid off, and not only CDC workers
but other federal workers that work in various departments of
HOOD or in uh NIH funded medical technology and research
operations here, whether at Emory or at Morehouse School of Medicine,
(29:55):
et cetera. So there's a lot of people that's looking
for work because of layoffs and DOGE cut in the
city of Atlanta, and so we try to help them
find new employment and for their skill set. And then also,
you know, just thinking about how there were projects that
we had that we were looking forward to receiving the
funds for, but those projects installed, the funding is questionable
(30:17):
at this point due to various departmental cuts at Transportation
or at HUD.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
I'd be curious to hear, mister Mayor, it's good to
have you back. What programs are on ice because of this,
and do you have the resources, the money, the programs
to help these people who are in transition, who've been
laid off at for instance, the CDC or somewhere else
in Atlanta.
Speaker 8 (30:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (30:39):
So some of the things that get very close to
affecting us is around our transportation dollars. Things that we
have won, we've been awarded and some of those came
under the Biden administration and they were for reconnecting communities.
They were for various type of projects that might have
(31:02):
had equity involved or sustainability involved. Uh, the i JA
for instance, these things, the or the IRRA as well
the Inflation Reduction Act. These things came under Biden and
so now they've been kind of stalled and we uh
don't know the future of these which is tough to
operate under. Which is a project that we bid on
(31:25):
that we were hopeful to win and you know, they
would provide a tremendous amount of connectivity for the city,
and they are questioned at this point. So we haven't
gotten no official letter that is no, it's but it's
definitely uh, these these various grant projects have been put
on stalled, you know installed and then so when you
think about all of the above as a mayor, you know,
(31:47):
we still have to operate under a balanced budget. That's
our mandate. Can't go into deficit spending, et cetera. So
we have to balance our budget, which means either we
have to make adjustments to our personnel, will make adjustments
to our service delivery, or raise taxes, which of course
is a last resort. So we are in our budget
talks right now. We're on a fiscal year of July
(32:10):
one through June thirtieth, and it's tight. It's tough. Luckily,
over the past three years, we have a tremendous amount
of reserves and we have a triple A credit rating,
so we're very proud of our financial standing. It just
puts more burden down at a local government level.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Well as you raised it, mister mayor, are you expecting
to have to do any more layoffs as you look
at your budget?
Speaker 10 (32:33):
Hopefully not. We are in good position right now. We
did do a hiring freeze and basically, out of ninety
five hundred employees in the City of Atlanta's employment, we
basically said no one can be hired unless they get
authorization from myself, the COO, or the Chief of staff.
And that was to make sure that we looked at
(32:54):
every single necessary position, look at any kind of vacancies
that we're in departments, because we want to make sure
we deliver the services that we've been, you know, known
for delivering on time and on schedule and on budget.
And so we're still doing a good job, but we
definitely are watching every dollar out the door and every
(33:14):
dollar in the door because we are we know that
we won't have a lot of backing from the federal
level that we can depend on with certainty. You know,
some of these policies they get called up on a Monday,
and then by Friday it's you know, altered, it's renegotiated
in some you know, conversation in Washington. And so we
(33:34):
don't want to make a knee jerk reaction to anything
because literally, you know, twenty four hours later, something that
has been said in a social media tweet or post
can be changed, you know, twenty four hours later or
forty eight hours later. So we have to just kind
of wait and see what's going to actually be real,
what's going to be codified, what's going to be legislated
(33:55):
by the Senators and the representatives via the White House's ambitions.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Well, mister Mayor, I'm trying to look over your shoulder
there at the skyline to find the stadium here, the
Mercedes Benz Stadium, where you're going to be hosting a
couple of World Cup games, actually more than a couple
next year. How do you prepare for an event like
that when you've got a hiring freeze and funding is
in question.
Speaker 10 (34:18):
Yeah, well we're going to be very prepared for FIFA
World Cup. You know, Atlanta does big events. Well, We've
We've handled the Copa America the same night that we
had the CNN presidential debate between Biden and Trump. We
the same day, I mean literally, and we've hosted multiple
Super Bowls, so we'll be prepared. We have about seven
(34:39):
hundred police officers that will be working from the city
right there for those every every each one of the
event nights that we have. So we have eight matches
that we've won for the World Cup, So each of
those eight matches for the day before, and the day
after and the day of, we'll have seven hundred Atlanta
Police officers plus two hundred to three hundred more officers
(35:00):
from surrounding jurisdictions. We have our mounted patrols that are
here the horseback. We will be prepared. We have enough officers.
We definitely have done a good job since the pandemic
of increasing the amount of officers that we have. We
increase pay, we have a new Atlanta Public Safety Training
Center that's really making them more prepared to do community
(35:22):
based policing. And so we are going to be prepared
from a safety and securities perspective. We even came up
with this idea that I have called Showcase Atlanta, where
not only are we just going to have folks go
to this huge sporting event, but we also want them
to get outside of the sporting event and go to
the museums, to the art galleries, go to the restaurants,
go to all the various communities around the city of
(35:44):
Atlanta to be able to enjoy what Atlanta has to offer.
So Showcase Atlanta dot com is where people are going
to find out what local businesses and dining they can enjoy.
So we'll be very much ready for that because and
we're hopeful that the federal government provides the fund that
it said it will provide to all of these World
Cup cities. Canada cities have their money, Mexico cities have
(36:06):
their money, and American cities are waiting till August September
to be able to know what amount we will receive.
Atlanta has the second highest most games, so we're hoping
that we get an adequate amount of funding to support this.
If not, we'll still do a good job, but we'd
love to be supported and now have to pull out
it put cash out of our pockets.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Come back and talk to us when you find out.
It sounds like a massive production and we're glad you
could be with us in our Atlanta bureau, mister Mayor,
Thank you, Andre Dickens of Atlanta, a great conversation with
us life on Bloomberg TV and radio. Thanks for listening
to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe
if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you
(36:48):
get your podcasts, and you can find us live every
weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at
noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android
Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
(00:20):
you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Joe and I, yes are in Washington, but we actually
have our eyes on Las Vegas at this hour with
the Bitcoin twenty twenty five conference is taking place. Remember
last year when it was in Nashville, then candidate Donald
Trump spoke before the conference, and today his now sitting
Vice President Jade Vance was the keynote speaker, talking a
big game about how this administration wants to be friendlier
(00:47):
for the crypto industry overall. Make it, of course, as
they've said often, the bitcoin capital of the world. Jadvance
today Joe saying, we want our fellow Americans to know
that crypto and digital assets and particularly bitcoin are part
of the mainstream economy and are here to stay.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
So helping us connect the dots between Las Vegas and Washington.
Here an actual policy from what goes on inside the
Venetian Resort to underneath the Capitol Dome is Byron Donald's
the congressman Republican from Florida's nineteenth is with us right
now on balance of power. Congressmen, welcome back. I hope
things are going well in Las Vegas.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Kaylee's right.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
It was Donald Trump's turn last year when he promised
America would become a bitcoin superpower under his leadership. What
changes need to happen right now to make that happen.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
Well, First, it's good to be with you. The first
couple of changes are going to be a legislation. We're
going to be moving through the Financial Services Committee this
summer one, dealing obviously with stable coin legislation. We've been
at that for a couple of years now under the
leadership of former Chairman McHenry who's now left Congress and
now chairman of french Hill. And then of course our
market structure legislation to create the regulatory framework for digital
(01:57):
assets overall, to actually have a rule so the road
where you have regulators understanding what their purview actually is
and unlike what was happening with Gary Gensler just making
up your purview as you go along, because.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
That's how you see that industry.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
So I think those those are steps one and two
for making bitcoin, as the President talks about the making
bitcoin the United States the bigcoin capital of the world,
you have to address a regulatory environment. You have to
create a clear regulatory system when it comes to stable
coins in particular, that will feed the engine for people
(02:33):
to bring more investments.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Into the United States.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
And then that's how the United States will become a
true leader when it comes to digital assets.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
But as all of that legislative effort, Congressman, and it's
great to have you on the program again, complicated by
the conflict of interest questions around President Trump knowing he
has a meme coin and attended a dinner last week
with investors in said meme coin that DJT, the media
company that literally bears his name, is raising money so
that it can buy a bitcoin. Does that add a
(03:04):
complicating factor to any kind of bipartis an effort in
advancing legislation like that when that's giving Democrats a lot
of noise to make, no, I.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Don't think so.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
There's a lot of Democrats on Capitol Hill who do
realize that digital assets are here to stay.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Bitcoin is here to stay. It's not going anywhere, and
so it's.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Time for the United States to actually take the necessary
steps forward to fully embrace digital assets. And so I
think what's going to happen is we're going to move
that policy out of the House. There are going to
be Democrats in my view, we're going to support both
packages in the House, and you're going to have Democrats
in the Senate support it. I think what what you saw,
and I think Democrats saw this by and large with
(03:43):
how they acted towards the digital assets industry under the
Biden administration, and you know, if you're here on the conference,
it was soundly rejected. I think people here understand that
you have to have clear rules for to the road.
You can't have regulators just picking and choosing how they're
going to look at digital assets. You simply can't. So
I think that to your question, I don't think that's
(04:04):
going to matter at all. We're talking about an industry
that it really has the potential to be a trillion
dollar industry here in the United States, and not just
to talk about the guys who are doing big things,
whether it's coinbase or any other company that's out there,
talk about the little guy people who are getting in
at the bottom of this industry who are finding an
(04:24):
opportunity to really build a company, really build wealth that
crosses party lines, acrosses demographic lines. And so we need
to lead on this and not be afraid of talking
points or other things that are going on.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
But as we consider building wealth, what if all of
this effort directly leads to further building the wealth of
the President of the United States. Do you not see
an issue their Congressman, Well.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
I would tell you that a rising tide lifts all boats.
You know, if Eric and Donn are doing things in
their personal capacities, that's fine, and that's all well and good.
That's America. I don't think people should be told that
you can't do business in our country. Actually, to be
blunt with you, it's better that these things are actually
out in the open for people to know and to see.
As opposed to what was happening under the previous administration,
(05:10):
where they were hiding how the family was making money.
They were hiding it from everybody. They were lying to
the American people. The president, President Biden, or the Auto
pen whichever one you choose, had to do preemptive pardons.
That stuff is ridiculous, that's outrageous. What we're talking about
is regulating an industry in a proper way so the
(05:31):
industry can thrive, it can grow, people can invest, capital
can be raised, and people, whether you're at the top
or the bottom, can get in. One of the things
that I'm so excited about digital assets is that when
we finally get the regulatory environment settled, you can do
things like fractional You can do fractional exchanges where people
can buy a fractional piece of real world assets or
(05:53):
a fractional piece of companies going forward. So if somebody
doesn't have, you know, fifty thousand dollars to their name
to invest, and they might have a couple hundred dollars,
it might have five thousand dollars under a fractionalized a
fractionalized tokenized exchange, you can invest in that. That helps
people grow their asset base, it helps them grow themselves financially.
(06:15):
In our country, that's a good thing. We should celebrate that.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Congressman, I want to ask you about the effort on
Capitol Hill that you're in the midst of right now
when it comes to reconciliation of the Trump tax cuts,
the spending cuts, and all the rest that comes with it. Here,
Caylee mentioned a moment ago that the President was just
asked in the Oval office about comments from Elon Musk
about the way this bill took shape in the House
and is now of course on its way to the Senate.
(06:39):
Let's listen to what he said and we'll have you react.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
I was like disappointed to see the massive spending bill, frankly,
which increases the bunch depths, if not doesn't decrease it,
and that reminds the work that the notes team is doing.
Speaker 7 (06:55):
I actually thought that when this big, beautiful bill came along.
Speaker 8 (06:57):
I mean, like everything he's done on dough gets wipes
out in the first year.
Speaker 6 (07:02):
I think, I think a bill can be can be
can be big, or it can be beautiful.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
It can be big or it can be beautiful. Congressman
that was with CBS, is Elon Musk wrong?
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Well, a couple of things. One in the package.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Obviously, we maintained all of the president's UH tax policy
and made a lot of it permanent, which is to
the betterment of of every small business owner, every American.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
We secure the.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
Border, we actually build border wall, We modernize our defense department.
We do a lot of things that have been neglected,
especially over the last four years, that need to get done,
and we were able to accomplish that. When it comes
to spending cuts, yeah, Elon's right on this. We have
to do a much better job and making sure that
these DESA bills are at a minimum deficit neutral. But
what they need to do is decrease deficits. And so
(07:48):
that was a major sticking point for a lot of
conservatives in the House. They want to see real spending
cuts in these packages. I know that there's a recisions
package that the that the House has and possession. We
need to move that to the floor and do that immediately.
A lot of the DOGE cuts are in that recisions package.
We should be voting on that at the end of
the day, before you get to bills or how any
(08:11):
of that looks like. I look at the bond market
and one thing is crystal clear. The bond market is
looking at the United States and they are saying, you
better get your fiscal house in order, or we're going
to charge you more to borrow money. No nation can
thrive under that kind of a scenario. So we have
to be serious on Capitol Hill. Last thing I will
say is the President and his team. They did a
(08:31):
tremendous job of trying to get this bill through the House.
Some of the sticking points on why we didn't cut
more spending was because of Republicans who, to be blunt,
we're concerned about their re elections and their districts as
opposed to making sure that we put the fiscal health
of the nation forward to have that be the number
one thing we're concerned about. So I think that as
(08:51):
this bill goes through the Senate, the Senate's going to
make changes, it will come back to the House and
if for future packages, I'd urge my colleagues we have
to take our deficits in our debts seriously because if
we don't get this under control, the bond market is
going to come for everybody. I don't care if you're
a Republican or Democrat, it does not matter. The bond market.
Charging higher rates for treasury bonds is going to be
(09:13):
a major issue that really could hurt the United States
over the long term, if not.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Sink us well on the bond market. Congressman White House
Trade advisor Pete Navarro just penned an op ed about
that today in the Hill, saying that the bond market
is wrong about Trump's tax bill. It misses the substantial
positive revenue impact of tariffs. What's your take on Navarro's argument.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Well, I agree with Peter when it comes to the
President's tax policy and even some tariff policy. Yes, those
are revenue raisers, and I would argue that when you
get out of the frankly, the negotiating around what the
economic growth rates are going to be on Capitol Hill,
that was a negotiation. It's not about what's going to happen.
I think things in the President's tax package, obviously Section
(09:57):
one ninety nine A being continued and now permanent one
hundred percent expensing over four years, no tax on tips,
no tax on overtime. I think all those things are
going to be stimulative to the economy. But I think
what the bond market is really talking about is our
deficits and our debts and the velocity of borrowings into
the future. That's what we have to get under control.
(10:17):
I would argue that if the bill was deficit neutral
coming out of the House, Moodies would not have downgraded.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
I'll tell you that right now.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
I think they would have, and so I think that
those are the things that the bond market is looking at.
It's not tax policy. Peter is correct when it comes
to tax policy. Totally agree with him on that. But
the bond market is looking at the deficit projections, the
debt projections of the United States. We have to take
this stuff seriously. There are real reforms that need to
happen in Washington, DC. And so that's the stuff that
(10:46):
when you look at future pieces of legislation when it
comes to deficits and debts, that's the stuff that we
have to get to get serious about.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
This is fascinating for us to hear. Congressman in our
remaining moment, Are you quietly hoping the Senate cuts spending
further when it gets its hands on the bill?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Oh yeah, of course.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
Listen. I am all for cutting spending. And look, let's
be clear on this. I know that there are a
lot of Americans to say, well, if you cut spending,
is that the thing that I use? And I will
tell you that the federal government weighs so much money,
we could actually do more when it comes to spending
and actually not hit vulnerable populations. I'll give you an example.
There was a lot of conversation around Medicaid and this bill,
(11:26):
the Democrats are saying, oh, Medicaid is to pay for
tax cuts. That is a lie that is simply not true.
The reason why it's a lie is because when the
Democrats were in charge, they did not touch Donald Trump's
tax policy. They left it in place because it's good
tax policy. So what the real argument is in medicaid?
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Should the federal.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Government be spending nine dollars for every one dollar that
the state spends on able bodied adults with no kids,
versus the same federal government paying a dollar thirty three
for poor kids, elderly people who were poor, and pregnant women.
That is a dichotomy set up by Barack Obama and Obamacare,
(12:05):
and it's terrible policy because what you've done is you've
expanded the Medicaid population for able bodied adults, and you're
actually disincentivizing state systems and hospitals from serving the most vulnerable.
So there are positions on the Hill that said, look,
let's try to rework some of this stuff. Let's do
more investment into poor people, vulnerable populations. Let's actually try
(12:28):
to take a stab at rural health and some other
issues that are happening in the country. But we have
to end this Medicaid expansion fallacy around essentially creating expansion
populations around Medicaid.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
You have to end that.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
One of the big reasons the Democrats want to keep
Medicaid expansion is not for health care. It's because they
want single payer health care. That was the reason they
wanted the public option back when they did the Affordable
Care Act back in what twenty ten, That was the
purpose of that. So there are conversations like that happening
on Capitol Hill where you can make changes to a
program like Medicaid, you can make sure people who are
(13:04):
on those programs are grandfathered in, their benefits don't get cut.
But going forward, the federal government says we're not going
to be funding able bodied adults going forward into the future.
We're going to make sure we prioritize vulnerable populations, people
who are truly in need. That's the kind of spending
reform that I think the bond market would say, you
know what, they're being serious. That's also the type of
(13:26):
spending reforms that I think the American people would get
behind because they'll be like, that makes sense. We should
be making sure that people who are truly vulnerable get
the help that they deserve.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
What about people who are vulnerable to the elements? Congressman,
And I ask you this knowing you would like to
be the next governor of Florida. Are you worried that
funding cuts in areas like FEMA and elsewhere, and as
we head into Atlantic hurricane season could leave states like
Florida more vulnerable in responding to disasters.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Well, look, I think that what you're going to see
is the reworking of FEMA, which is something I have
advocated for. I filed a bill with Jared Moscowitz, Democrat
out of Florida about getting FEMA out of Homeland Security,
having it being a direct report agency to the White House.
So I think I commend the White House on what
they're doing. President Trump is leading on this issue making
(14:17):
sure that FEMA is reformed. So I'm not concerned about that.
Knowing the President, knowing his team, they're going to be
there to make sure that people are getting every help
that they need and they deserve from the federal government
when disasters strikes. So I have no concerns about that.
But you do ask the real question about FEMA. FEMA
(14:37):
is a bureaucratic mess, and it has been for quite
some time. Go ask the people in North Carolina, they
will tell you. Ask the people in the in the Panhandle,
Big Band area, southwest Florida, my district, they will tell
you this. So FEMA needs to be reworked, reworked. I
commend the President for what he's doing. Let them go
through that process. But I will tell you Americans, Floridians,
(14:58):
they're going to get the help that they need.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
One disaster strikes from Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
All right, Florida gubernatorial candidate and current Republican Congressman representing
Flora's nineteenth district, Byron Donalds, thank you so much for
joining us here on Balance of Power Live from Las Vegas,
where Bitcoin twenty twenty five is underway. We'll have more
on crypto and its ties to this White House and
this president later on on the program, and our political
panel will join us straight ahead. Rick Davis and Jeanie
(15:25):
Shanzano will be with us here on Balance of Power
on Bloomberg TV and radio.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,
Cocklay and Android Atto with the Bloomberg Business App. You
can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship
New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
So thanks for joining alongside Kaylee Lines. I am Joe
Matthew in Washington, where it's back to the future at
the White House. Kaylee, at least when it comes to
Fannie May and Freddie, you may have feel like you've
seen this movie before. Donald Trump says he's working. That's
the quote on taking Fanny and Freddie public, adding more
to suggest the government will retain guarantees and oversight for
(16:12):
Fanny and Freddie if in fact they are taking public.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
The question is how do you get it done?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, that if is a big if, and how you
get it done is a question we pose now to
Ben Elliott, Bloomberg intelligence analyst for financials, who is here
with us in our Washington, d C studio. So, Ben,
obviously this idea isn't anything new. In fact, it's something
that many Republicans have long advocated for since these went
into government conservatorship after the financial crisis. But how hard
(16:40):
is it to actually implement? What would it actually even
look like?
Speaker 7 (16:44):
Yes, so it's an incredibly hard process. Right, the Trump
administration had four years to work on this, and they
didn't accomplish a whole lot at the end there, But
they have all that work on the shelf. They could
they could pull it down and they could speed up
the process this time around. I think the markets today,
you saw the price action on Fanning and Freddy very positive.
I think that's a response that investors are happy to
see that the government would still have a role in
(17:05):
housing finance. But actually the process of determining how that
guarantee will work is much more complicated than just a post.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Well, that I guess is the question here, right, do
we have anything comparable is an example of how that
would work? And how much oversight would Wall Street withstand?
Speaker 7 (17:21):
Yeah, so there are analogs for how the government would
exit a stake. You know, the federal governmente a ton
of equity investments in the way of the financial crisis,
AIG being sort of the biggest one that everyone remembers,
and the government could follow that playbook to get out
of its stake and Fanny and Freddy, but there's no
analog for you know the role of gs's play in
(17:43):
housing finance and providing a fixed rate thirty year mortgage
to US home buyers. So that remains to be determined,
and it's very complicated.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Well, and to that point, what could happen to mortgage
rates themselves if we were to see the government offloading
Fanny and Freddie? Is there a risk that actually costs
to buy a home could go higher.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (18:04):
So if you look at the sort of spread of
agency NBS over Treasury, it's really moved very little as
a result of the President's latest post. So I think
that indicates that the bond market basically assumes there'll be
no change in how the securities are perceived. But you know,
if more credit risks were to come into the agency
NBS marketplace, then the securities would have to price higher
(18:25):
and that would be reflected in mortgage rates.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Really interesting and it's something that we'll keep tabs on
for you here, Ben Elliot with Bloomberg Intelligence. Great to
have you with this, Ben, it'll be a stranger on
balance of power. As we assemble our political panel. Rick
and Jennie are both with us Bloomberg Politics contributors with
our eyes on Elon Musk and some of the commentary
that he made in a series of interviews, not only
about the Doge, but about the President's big, beautiful bill.
(18:48):
Genie is Bloomberg politics contributor, Democratic analyst, and senior Democracy
fellow at the Center for the Study of the Presidency
in Congress, Rick are Republican strategist and partner at Stone
Court Capital. What do you make of this?
Speaker 9 (19:00):
Genie?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Elon Musk says, the bill can be big or it
can be beautiful. Apparently it cannot be both. Has Donald
Trump lost the man who ran the doge?
Speaker 9 (19:10):
He seems to have. And you know, I was thinking, boy,
that was quick. It was like literally over the weekend
he was cheap truthing. No, now he doesn't truth. He
tweets xing I should say about he was going to
spend twenty four to seven at work, he was going
to be sleeping on factory floors, and then all of
a sudden he's back in. Sort of sounded to me
a little bit like an exit interview bemoaning what is
(19:32):
going on in Washington, d C. I have to agree
with him on the bill. I don't think it's either well,
I don't think it's beautiful. I do think it is
very big, and I think he is right on the
question of the deficit in the spending. So I agree
with him on that, but I can't. I imagine his
investors are not happy that he's not sleeping on those
factory floors like he promised.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, of course, it's not just his investors that seem
to have paid attention into his comments. The Speaker of
the House seems to have been responding as well on
X Today Rick as he says Elon Musk in the
entire Doach team have done incredible work, and that the
House is eager and ready to act on Joje's findings
so we can deliver even more cuts to big government
(20:16):
that President Trump wants and the American people demand. He
says the two ways of doing that are acting on
a recisions package when the White House sends it to
the House, and then using the appropriations process to swiftly
implement the president's twenty twenty six budget. Does the Speaker
have a point that actually, this one big, beautiful bill
is not supposed to be where we see spending cuts materialize,
(20:37):
that that has to happen separately legislatively.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
Well, it can happen separately legislatively, But the reason you
use reconciliation is because it's easier to do. You don't
have to have a sixty vote majority in the Senate
to pass. And so if you're going to go deep
with the knife and cut government programs excess of what
the House attempted to do, then where are you going
(21:04):
to get the votes for it. You barely had the
votes to pass the big beautiful bill, and now everyone's
out criticizing it for not actually having cut enough. Chip Roy,
it must be doing, you know, a dance in the
House floor right now, because he's been saying that for
a month. And so when we heard Byron Donald start
(21:25):
talking about earlier on this program, how you know he
really feels frustrated by the inability to cut more into
the deficit. I mean, he was voting on this bill.
You could have stopped it and gone back and cut more.
Now as soon as the bills is sent to the Senate,
it's like, well the Senate needs to cut more. I mean,
(21:45):
it's really unusual for Washington to play this dance. But look,
the good news is everyone's focused on trying to cut
that deficit. And I do think that's a high priority
for both the Trump administration and Capitol Hill.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
I did have to wonder how many times in your
years in the Senate you heard somebody in the House
hoping that the Senate would cut further to make the
bill better. But you know, we're also concerned about Elon
Musk's feelings when it comes to the Doge Genie. He
did a couple of interviews. There was another one with
the Washington poach Post in which he talked about the
Doge as a whipping boy for everything quote so like
(22:22):
something bad would happen anywhere and we would get blamed
for it, even if we had nothing to do with it.
And we know that Elon Musk was bumping into members
of the cabinet just like he was lawmakers and members
of the voting public. But if you're swinging a chainsaw
around on stage at sea pack, shouldn't you expect to
offend somebody.
Speaker 9 (22:43):
You would think, right? You know, it sort of reminded me,
as good as he is at business, or brilliant as
he is at business, he's very very new to this
Washington DC game. Because you know, he was surprised that
he was being criticized, or what he said, blamed, and
Doze was being blamed and of course that suggests somebody
(23:03):
who hasn't spent a lot of time in Washington, d C.
Even Donald Trump today in his comments, tried to say, listen, Elon,
you know, we'd like to do other things, but the
reality is we need to get enough votes for passage.
And so, you know, I think Elon Musk sounds a
little bit naive sometimes when he talks about either Doze
(23:24):
or the cuts in these kinds of things that are
going on in Washington, d C.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, when he's talking about these things going off going
on in Washington, d C, knowing he's about to spend
a whole lot less time in Washington, d C. Rick,
is this actually when we see honesty coming into the picture.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
Well, I don't know if it's honesty.
Speaker 8 (23:46):
I mean, maybe a little naive to think that you
were going to go to Washington with the chainsaw and not,
you know, ruffle some feathers. But since why did Elon
Musk ever care about ruffling feathers. He's been ruffling feathers
since the day he was and thank goodness he has.
He's upended the space launch industry. He's got so many
other inventions that are revolutionizing technology. I really Actually, I'm
(24:11):
more concerned with the fact that he's now feeling like
he's got feelings and all of a sudden, you know,
because the dosing didn't quite work out. So what I mean,
rockets blow up and you keep working on it. In Washington,
you need to sort of pick your friends, and so
in this case, I think, you know, someone needs to
sit down with Elon and say, look, your friends, the
Trump administration, their followers probably are very happy with what
(24:34):
Doge accomplished. Rest you assured that will be your legacy
in Washington. Keep moving, launch some space, and look, save
a seat for me to go to Mars. I want
to be an easter planetary species.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Rick, I guess you're just gonna have to wait til
longer than next year. Genie, Is this a concerted pr
campaign to distance Elon Musk from all things Washington?
Speaker 9 (24:58):
Yeah, it absolutely could. I mean, it wasn't that long ago.
We were talking about the fact that everything he had
done on behalf of Doge had alienated the big base
of his of his buyers for Tesla, and so how
do you get those back? And of course the numbers
are really suffering. You distance yourself and we've seen him
do that on tariffs already, we're seeing him do it
(25:20):
big time when it comes to the issue of reconciliation.
So I do think there might be some of that
going on here. And of course also the fact that he,
you know, has long been disenchanted with Washington, DC and
the fact it's now being run by the Republicans and
Donald Trump's hasn't changed any of his feelings about it,
(25:41):
because of course Washington hasn't changed. Granted, it's only been
one hundred and what twenty thirty days?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Well, yeah, that's true. Who's still counting at this point?
I think it has been like one hundred and thirty days.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Right, that's right, end of April. Well, I guess that's true.
Elan's one hundred and thirty day Marcus Friday.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yes, end of the contract of the Special government Employee status.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
Rick.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
In our final minute here, what happened to the DOGE
caucus in Congress? Is it them that have to kind
of take the helm going forward?
Speaker 6 (26:10):
Here?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Have we all resigned ourselves to the fact that this
effort is maybe a lot easier to talk about than
to actually implement in reality, especially when it comes to
congressional recisions.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
Yeah, well, we see now there's sort of a remake
that DOGE is going to focus on upgrading and modernizing
the computer systems and government, which they desperately need to do.
So if it becomes something like that, which could be
fruitful for taxpayers and for those getting benefits from the administration,
(26:43):
then I think I think that would be a good
sort of second act. You know, we know that there
have been discussions about, like, gosh, why can't we operate
the federal government like American Express. You know, you can
get your you get things done in an easier way.
But at the end of the day, I think that
you're going to see sort of a limitation put on
(27:05):
DOGE because at the end of the day, it's hard
to get your job done if you're in Congress, and
to then have to deal with things like DOGE just
is a massive distraction. They're the ones who have to
cut the budget, They're the ones who have to create
these programs, not an outside entity.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
And Rick and Jeanie are the ones who have to
answer our questions here on Balance of Power Political Panel today,
Rick Davis and Genie Schanzeno, thank you so much, and
we have more of the program straight ahead, as we
sit down with the Atlanta Mayor, Andre Dickens next on
Bloomberg TV and Tredio.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on
Alma Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business Up.
Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch
us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
On Bloomberg Radio, Bloomberg TV on YouTube, and Bloomberg Originals.
As we try to connect the dots on the debate
here in Washington about tax and spend, with what's happening
in local and city governments, statewide governments as well, for
that matter, all over the country downstream, if you will,
from the decisions that are being made here in the
nation's capital. As Kaylee lines and I look forward to
(28:20):
talking with the Mayor of Atlanta, Kayley, We've heard a
lot of questions and asked a lot of questions about
the impact of cuts to Medicaid, the SNAP program, food stamps,
and it's an interesting equation for a mayor who doesn't
always have the flexibility to deal with debt and deficit
spending the way we do.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Here in DC.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Certainly, and considering that the federal government policies that are
affecting cities like Atlanta don't just end with potential cuts,
but also cuts they are making to things like the
Centers for Disease Control, for example, elsewhere that actually could
directly impact the Atlanta economy. So it's on that note
we do now turn to the Mayor of Atlanta, Andre Dickens.
Mister mayor, thank you for being with us here on
(28:59):
balance of power. Ask you weigh all of these different
policies and and the cutting policies in particular that are
coming from here in Washington, DC. How are you feeling
it at home?
Speaker 10 (29:11):
Yeah? At home, it's a little tough for uh, every
day at Lantin's, which are everyday Americans. Uh, when we
have tariffs that have increased the cost of goods, whether
that's at your grocery store or at your hardware store,
or the costs that it takes us to produce an
affordable housing unit. These things have increased under Donald Trump.
(29:32):
And it also affects us right here at home because
the CDC is headquartered here in Atlanta, and thousands of
people have been laid off, and not only CDC workers
but other federal workers that work in various departments of
HOOD or in uh NIH funded medical technology and research
operations here, whether at Emory or at Morehouse School of Medicine,
(29:55):
et cetera. So there's a lot of people that's looking
for work because of layoffs and DOGE cut in the
city of Atlanta, and so we try to help them
find new employment and for their skill set. And then also,
you know, just thinking about how there were projects that
we had that we were looking forward to receiving the
funds for, but those projects installed, the funding is questionable
(30:17):
at this point due to various departmental cuts at Transportation
or at HUD.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
I'd be curious to hear, mister Mayor, it's good to
have you back. What programs are on ice because of this,
and do you have the resources, the money, the programs
to help these people who are in transition, who've been
laid off at for instance, the CDC or somewhere else
in Atlanta.
Speaker 8 (30:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (30:39):
So some of the things that get very close to
affecting us is around our transportation dollars. Things that we
have won, we've been awarded and some of those came
under the Biden administration and they were for reconnecting communities.
They were for various type of projects that might have
(31:02):
had equity involved or sustainability involved. Uh, the i JA
for instance, these things, the or the IRRA as well
the Inflation Reduction Act. These things came under Biden and
so now they've been kind of stalled and we uh
don't know the future of these which is tough to
operate under. Which is a project that we bid on
(31:25):
that we were hopeful to win and you know, they
would provide a tremendous amount of connectivity for the city,
and they are questioned at this point. So we haven't
gotten no official letter that is no, it's but it's
definitely uh, these these various grant projects have been put
on stalled, you know installed and then so when you
think about all of the above as a mayor, you know,
(31:47):
we still have to operate under a balanced budget. That's
our mandate. Can't go into deficit spending, et cetera. So
we have to balance our budget, which means either we
have to make adjustments to our personnel, will make adjustments
to our service delivery, or raise taxes, which of course
is a last resort. So we are in our budget
talks right now. We're on a fiscal year of July
(32:10):
one through June thirtieth, and it's tight. It's tough. Luckily,
over the past three years, we have a tremendous amount
of reserves and we have a triple A credit rating,
so we're very proud of our financial standing. It just
puts more burden down at a local government level.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Well as you raised it, mister mayor, are you expecting
to have to do any more layoffs as you look
at your budget?
Speaker 10 (32:33):
Hopefully not. We are in good position right now. We
did do a hiring freeze and basically, out of ninety
five hundred employees in the City of Atlanta's employment, we
basically said no one can be hired unless they get
authorization from myself, the COO, or the Chief of staff.
And that was to make sure that we looked at
(32:54):
every single necessary position, look at any kind of vacancies
that we're in departments, because we want to make sure
we deliver the services that we've been, you know, known
for delivering on time and on schedule and on budget.
And so we're still doing a good job, but we
definitely are watching every dollar out the door and every
(33:14):
dollar in the door because we are we know that
we won't have a lot of backing from the federal
level that we can depend on with certainty. You know,
some of these policies they get called up on a Monday,
and then by Friday it's you know, altered, it's renegotiated
in some you know, conversation in Washington. And so we
(33:34):
don't want to make a knee jerk reaction to anything
because literally, you know, twenty four hours later, something that
has been said in a social media tweet or post
can be changed, you know, twenty four hours later or
forty eight hours later. So we have to just kind
of wait and see what's going to actually be real,
what's going to be codified, what's going to be legislated
(33:55):
by the Senators and the representatives via the White House's ambitions.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Well, mister Mayor, I'm trying to look over your shoulder
there at the skyline to find the stadium here, the
Mercedes Benz Stadium, where you're going to be hosting a
couple of World Cup games, actually more than a couple
next year. How do you prepare for an event like
that when you've got a hiring freeze and funding is
in question.
Speaker 10 (34:18):
Yeah, well we're going to be very prepared for FIFA
World Cup. You know, Atlanta does big events. Well, We've
We've handled the Copa America the same night that we
had the CNN presidential debate between Biden and Trump. We
the same day, I mean literally, and we've hosted multiple
Super Bowls, so we'll be prepared. We have about seven
(34:39):
hundred police officers that will be working from the city
right there for those every every each one of the
event nights that we have. So we have eight matches
that we've won for the World Cup, So each of
those eight matches for the day before, and the day
after and the day of, we'll have seven hundred Atlanta
Police officers plus two hundred to three hundred more officers
(35:00):
from surrounding jurisdictions. We have our mounted patrols that are
here the horseback. We will be prepared. We have enough officers.
We definitely have done a good job since the pandemic
of increasing the amount of officers that we have. We
increase pay, we have a new Atlanta Public Safety Training
Center that's really making them more prepared to do community
(35:22):
based policing. And so we are going to be prepared
from a safety and securities perspective. We even came up
with this idea that I have called Showcase Atlanta, where
not only are we just going to have folks go
to this huge sporting event, but we also want them
to get outside of the sporting event and go to
the museums, to the art galleries, go to the restaurants,
go to all the various communities around the city of
(35:44):
Atlanta to be able to enjoy what Atlanta has to offer.
So Showcase Atlanta dot com is where people are going
to find out what local businesses and dining they can enjoy.
So we'll be very much ready for that because and
we're hopeful that the federal government provides the fund that
it said it will provide to all of these World
Cup cities. Canada cities have their money, Mexico cities have
(36:06):
their money, and American cities are waiting till August September
to be able to know what amount we will receive.
Atlanta has the second highest most games, so we're hoping
that we get an adequate amount of funding to support this.
If not, we'll still do a good job, but we'd
love to be supported and now have to pull out
it put cash out of our pockets.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Come back and talk to us when you find out.
It sounds like a massive production and we're glad you
could be with us in our Atlanta bureau, mister Mayor,
Thank you, Andre Dickens of Atlanta, a great conversation with
us life on Bloomberg TV and radio. Thanks for listening
to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe
if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you
(36:48):
get your podcasts, and you can find us live every
weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.
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