July 11, 2025 • 33 mins
Watch Joe and Kailey LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
President Donald Trump in Texas on Friday viewed firsthand the devastation left by extreme flooding that killed at least 120 people and left scores still missing in the state’s Hill Country region, seeking to reassure residents of the federal response to the disaster.
The president met with local officials and emergency workers in hard-hit Kerr County, where he received a briefing, accompanied on his visit by first lady Melania Trump and Texas Governor Greg Abbott. Trump surveyed the damage in a helicopter flight and then was shown what appeared to be a map of the flood-damaged area.
The scale of the destruction was evident — with Trump and the first lady standing in front of an overturned tractor trailer and amid downed trees, a testament to the force of the deadly, ravaging floodwaters which tore through the community.
On this edition of Balance of Power, Joe and Kailey speak with:
- Julie Fine, Bloomberg Texas bureau chief
- Rep. Gwen Moore, Democrat Representing Wisconsin's 4th District
- Wendy Edelberg, senior fellow in economic studies at Brookings Institution, former chief economist at the Congressional Budget Office
- Jason Bailey, Bloomberg Opinion guest columnist, film critic and historian
- Rick Davis, Partner at Stonecourt Capital and Bloomberg Politics Contributor & & Jeanne Sheehan Zaino, Senior Democracy Fellow with the Center for the Study of the Presidency & Congress and Bloomberg Politics Contributor
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
No longer in Washington, at least for the remainder of
the afternoon is President Trump, who departed Washington earlier today
and has actually just touched down VM Marine one after
Air Force one landed in Texas earlier in Kerrville, Texas,
where he will be surveying some of the damage in
areas affected by last week's devastating flooding. And of course
we'll be meeting with state and local officials participating in
(00:46):
a roundtable this afternoon. In the aftermath of this tragedy,
with more than one hundred and seventy people still unaccounted for,
we want to get the latest. In turn to our
Texas Bureau chief, Bloomberg's Julie Fine is joining us from Dallas.
So Julie, just walk us through, if you could, what
we expect to see from President Trump's visit this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, you already saw him with the governor, with the senators,
clearly trying to show unity in this situation. Now he'll
sit down with a round table. He's going to get
a briefing, and he's really going to learn firsthand. I mean,
he's gotten the briefings at the White House, he's gotten
the briefings from FEMA, he's gotten all these briefings. But
he's going to really sit down and get a real
look into what's happening in Texas and what's going to
(01:30):
happen for a long time forward. This cleanup should take
a very very long time. A disaster declaration was declared
for several surrounding counties today as well. He's going to
really see the work ahead. Then he will go and
actually tour the damage site, which you know the media's
been through now you've seen it from the air as well.
(01:52):
It's devastating. You will see cabins, you will see really
debris that a human being is very hard to fathom.
That's what's ahead today.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
You wonder exactly how that's going to affect the President
and the First Lady for that matter, when they see it. Julie.
There has been a call for floodal arms to be
put in this area. It's not the first time we've
heard this, but Governor Abbott, who I know you're in
contact with, is calling for this to be adopted during
a special legislative session. President Trump telling NBC News he
(02:24):
supports that. Will it happen.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I think it will happen in this session. I mean,
I think there will be a little back and forth
with the details involved with it and the actual funding
of it. But when you have the governor and the
Lieutenant governor on record saying we are going to get
this done, you have lawmakers in in just about a
week now, it will be very difficult for them not
to take some very serious action in the aftermath of this.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, and when we consider the aftermath of this and
how it's going to inform policy decisions, not just in
Texas but federally going forward, Julie, as we have questions
around what the administration's intention is when it comes to FEMA.
Is there a sense in Texas that the aftermath of
this could be properly managed by the state alone, or
(03:11):
is it necessary that FEMA is on the ground there
right now.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Well, I'm certain that they want FEMA here right now.
I mean, I suppose I saw a local official the
other day saying simply, anybody that wants to be here,
that can volunteer and help, we want you here. So
certainly FEMA being here is going to help in the aftermath.
You have to look at Joe and Kayley. How much
money and support is going to be needed for such
(03:36):
a long period of time. I mean, the Hill Country
is an extremely popular destination for people in the summer,
but there are also people that live there. There's also
an economy. It's fifty five thousand people, so obviously not
a huge city, but there's an economy there that is
going to need to be rebuilt essentially outside of the city.
(03:56):
So FEMA definitely will be needed. I imagine the governor
will be reaching out as well. Now Texas does have
a very large response. Sadly, this is a state that's
had to really manage quite a few of these type
of tornado type rain situations because of the weather here
and the topography.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Julie, thank you so much for the great reporting our
Texas Bureau chief, Julie Fine.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
The you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast.
Catch us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern
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Speaker 4 (04:41):
Heard about the tomato tariffs scaley, Yeah, there comes seventeen
percent Mexican tomatoes starting Monday, So start stockpiling the salsa.
I guess Congresswoman Gwen Moore is watching all of this
from her perch in Wisconsin's fourth district. Democratic congresswoman is
with us right now live on Bloomberg TV and radio.
(05:01):
It's great to see you, Representative more welcome back. Are
you stockpiling tomatoes ahead of next week? How do we
deal with these tariffs?
Speaker 5 (05:10):
Well, I tell you I do have a tomato plant
outside my back door, just in case.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
You're doing it right apparently. How concerned are you about
the impact this could have on Wisconsin? Of course, a
major agriculture state, a major dairy state, as we enter
a whole new level of trade war it seems with Canada.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Well, of course I'm very concerned. Years ago I asked
my youngest granddaughter where food came from, and she said,
pick and save.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
So I got worried.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Then you know, the whole supply chain is going to
be disrupted, everything from farmers planning their foods to actually
people who will need and rely on SNAP and so
this will affect grosers, people who have jobs bagging grocers, groceries, inflation,
(06:02):
the cost of groceries, and our farmers. And the only
way that this president seems to be able to address
these things is to try to provide a subsidy for
agriculture workers or to declare that he is not going
to deport Mexican migrants who might be working as agricultural workers.
This is a real big stretch in terms of saving
(06:25):
our economy and lowering costs.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, Congressoman, I would mention in our audience on Bloomberg
TV as well as on YouTube can see this.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Now.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
President Trump has just landed in Texas alongside First Lady
Milania Trump. They of course are now heading into the
helicopter and they'll begin viewing some of the damaged areas
in and around Kerrville, Texas from last weekend's devastating floods.
When we consider a congressom in the future of FEMA,
knowing President Trump has up until recently called for essentially
it's dismantling and sending that responsibility back to the States.
(06:56):
Do you believe that that policy pursuit is one that
he will still actively pursue or could this disaster actually
spell a second chance for FEMA as it currently stands.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
Well, I guess I wish I could predict what President
Trump what was gonna do, because I would not have
predicted that FEMA would have been destroyed. When we have
seen a time and again, whether you believe in climate
change or not, the environmental the environment be shifty, calls, tornadoes,
all kinds of five hundred year weather conditions, and surprise, surprise,
(07:33):
this storm was yet another aggression on the part of
Mother Nature and a warning not to dismantle emergency services.
I heard President Trump say, I wouldn't have even blamed
Joe Biden for this, that you know, But I'm telling
you that there's nothing like preparedness and nothing like being
(07:55):
able to reach people on several different platforms to warn
them to escape. And so I think that it's fine
for him to be there with his wife. That's where
any president should be, and maybe better late than never.
(08:15):
But I think that the agony and misery of this
community is going to continue long after the cameras are gone,
long after Air Force one leaves.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Well, it is pretty heartbreaking to consider one hundred and
seventy people still missing. Congresswomen in Texas is one of
many states that has seen an influx in ICE raids.
Of course, Texas is a border state and is no
stranger to immigration security here, but I want to ask
you about some of the raids that we have been seeing,
in many cases by unmarked and masked individuals who are
(08:46):
purportedly with ICE or sometimes it's hard to tell. Border Patrol.
Department of Homeland Security, you just signed a letter urging
ICE to not deport undocumented victims of crime. Did you
hear a response from the federal government from the administration
on this? Is there anything your office can do to
help them?
Speaker 5 (09:05):
No, the response is hopefully forthcoming. There's nothing more frightening
to me to think of someone throwing a bag over
my head and dragging me away. This is so Unamerican
to not announce which law enforcement agent you are demonstrating
your badge number, and that you have the authority to
(09:27):
take people into custody. This is very chilling, and I
think it's being done deliberately to replicate the tactics of
authoritarian regimes. This is totally unacceptable and it defies people's
You know, I'm not an attorney, but I would think
(09:48):
that if you need a warrant, you would at least
need to disclose who you are as a law enforcement person.
This is totally unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Congressman, when we consider ICE will be getting more funding
along with Customs and border patrol due to the one big,
beautiful bill that just passed in all the various components
in it, With the passage of that bill, with the
potential passage of now a recisions package that could very
well happen in the Senate, do Democrats have any incentive
to deal with Republicans for a government funding deal.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Well, we always have an incentive to do our job
if we're allowed to do our job. You know, the
thing about the package now is that it's the largest
border bill that we have seen in history, and I
don't know that it's always directed at the right equipment.
(10:42):
Democrats have long been for more electronic surveillance, more human
beings that actually evaluate and separate the sheep from the goat,
as it were, at the border. We have always aired
on the side of more border security, you know, but
the building the optics of you know, putting people, uh
you know, surrounding them by alligators.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
This is this is uh costly. It costs so much
money uh to uh you know, the optics Uh Alcatraz,
for example, it costs more money than it's worth in
terms of being of incarcerating people. I think that the
overkill is not only bad for people's personal rights, but
(11:29):
for our budget.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
All right, Congresswoman, we appreciate your time. As always. Democratic
Congresswoman Gwen Moore representing Wisconsin's fourth district here with us
on Balance of Power.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm e's durn On,
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us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
We also wanted to vote us on a subject area
the President actually spoke about with reporters before departing Washington
for Texas. He was talking about immigration. Joe and a
direct quote from the President in his remarks this morning,
we're getting the criminals out, and we're getting them out fast. Now,
as we know a lot of the people who have
been arrested as part of these efforts in the administration
(12:19):
to arrest and deport people do not necessarily have criminal records,
and also their means at getting to these people have
frequently been to raid work.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Please, that's true, and this has been a byproduct of
Stephen Miller's urging of ICE and Immigration officials to increase
the number of detentions per week, per month that are
still running below what we saw in the Biden and
Obama administrations. It was a big raid yesterday Kaylee, California,
in which tear gas was sprayed at protesters. They were
(12:52):
going after a cannabis growth facility. I guess in southern California.
Footage taken that we've taken a look at show them
executing criminal search warrants. They say they got ten juveniles,
eight of them unaccompanied, found at one of the facilities,
rated that all of them were in the country illegally.
When we talk about these raids, we discussed this earlier
(13:13):
on the Hour with Congresswoman ghen More. In many cases,
these agents are masked and are wearing plain clothes, making
it very confusing for the people who are there. You
see a call on social media citizens come protect the
immigrants who are being targeted, and things get pretty ugly
pretty quick. And it's part of the conversation that we
wanted to have with Wendy Edelberg, who is a senior
fellow in Economic Studies at the Brookings Institution, former chief
(13:36):
Economists incidentally at the CBO, the Congressional Budget Office. We
could talk about a couple of things here with Wendy. Welcome,
It's good to see you as we consider the impact
that this policy is having on our workforce in our economy.
When you hear stories like this, the chill could go
much further than the people who were at that site.
What does that mean for workers?
Speaker 7 (13:55):
Absolutely? I mean, so let me first say, I'm coming
at this as an economist. That's my lane. So I'll
talk about the economic effects, but I think those are
dwarfed by just the visceral effect. As an American looking
at these images, I think that effect is far more
important and far bigger than I think what's going to
sound like pretty modest economic effects that I'm about to discuss.
(14:18):
So with some colleagues we put out a report not
so long ago, where we think that it's more than
likely that as a result of this immigration policy, we
will have negative net migration, which is to say, more
people leaving the country than entering the country this year
for the first time in many decades. And that's going
(14:39):
to mean a smaller economy, and that's going to mean
a labor market with numbers that are going to be
not so recognizable, really startling labor market numbers as we
go forward.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Well, and we've seen that in the past several jobs reports.
When we're thinking of the share of the foreign born workforce,
that number is going down, and it's going down substantially,
raising the question of who replace those workers, Wendy, who does?
You can't, who's willing to?
Speaker 7 (15:05):
So let's first step back a bit and talk about
what's probably happening in the labor market right now. So
I appreciate that the published statistics are showing things about
you know, sharef form born and the like those statistics,
While you know, I don't mean to impugne them at all,
these are large changes that are happening right now, and
those statistics are probably not fully catching up with what's happening.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
My guess.
Speaker 7 (15:30):
My analysis suggests that the surge and immigration over the
past few years is actually still pushing up labor supply.
And the reason I say that is because there's a
big swath of immigrants that are that are new to
this country that are eligible to apply for work permits,
and we have seen a surge in those work permit applications,
(15:52):
and while approval rates are down, like for example, between
April and May, this administration approved almost seven hundred thousand
work permits for recent immigrants. And so I think one
of the reasons that we've seen such strong employment numbers
over the past few months, on average one hundred and
fifty thousand, I think that that is because labor supply
(16:14):
is still being pushed up by the recent surgeon immigration.
But we can't ride that wave forever, and we're probably
just about at the moment that that increase in labor
supply comes to an end and we start seeing payroll
employment numbers that are closer to like thirty thousand a month,
really ten thousand a month. In a year or so,
(16:37):
we could start seeing payroll employment numbers that are negative,
and that will be like a healthy, sustainable full employment
labor market, just with declining labor supply and so declining employment.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
So what does that mean for participation and the unemployment rate.
Speaker 7 (16:56):
So there's gonna be some near term gyration the year
from now.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Though, to your point, if we're in a negative growth
on payrolls, what's the rest of the job market look like?
Speaker 7 (17:06):
So I think the rest of the this is going
to be the cognitive dissonance. The thing that's going to
be really hard about understanding the labor market that this
policy has created. Uh, it could well be that we
have a healthy labor market, an unemployment rate that is
that starts with a four.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Labor starts with a force.
Speaker 7 (17:28):
Starts with a four. It could be a nice healthy
labor market, but just have a we have a shrinking
labor supply, and that just means shrinking employment. There are
other economies.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Or wages through the roof in that world for a time.
Speaker 7 (17:44):
I again I think for the for a time, I
think that there will be near term grations. We're going
to see stronger wage growth in some occupations, stronger wage
growth in the agricultural sector, stronger wage growth for home
health workers. But I think other parts of the economy,
and particularly some cities, some areas are actually going to
(18:05):
see big reductions in consumer demand. We're already seeing this
in some areas where we're seeing big raids on immigrant communities,
and businesses there are complaining that they're seeing much less demand.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
For their products.
Speaker 7 (18:22):
Those businesses are going to lower their prices, they're going
to layoff workers, and you're going to have deflationary effects.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I want to focus on the labor supply issue you're
referring to, because we know there are people on the
sidelines in this That's why we don't have a full
labor market participation. The AG Secretary Brook Rawlin suggested in
an interview this week that if you take the agricultural sector,
for example, and the workforce that may be lost by migrants,
that there are people who could replace those workers, people
(18:49):
who need to work in order to be eligible for medicaid.
Do you expect that that actually is a dynamic that
will take place, that that kind of changes to how
you're able to access medicaid could bring people off the sideline.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
So it's the theory of the case. I mean, I'll
say there's a lot of economic analysis that suggests that
if you make people poor enough and desperate enough, they
will work. So I get it. If we decimate the
safety net, we will increase labor supply. I don't know
(19:25):
that it will happen nearly enough to replace the you know,
hundreds of thousands of immigrants that we're talking about no
longer being in this country or not coming. And I'll
also say one of the reasons why I'm skeptical that
this will be a huge effect is that the labor
(19:47):
market has been quite strong for some time, and it
has been a pretty good time to get a job.
And we've seen stronger labor force participation among some groups,
but not those groups have actually largely been women who
have increased their labor force participation rates. There's some excellent
(20:08):
work coming out of the Hamilton Project at Brookings showing
that labor force participation among women has been particularly strong.
Even this strong labor market has not been enough to
get these prime age men office sidelines. So I'm not
sure that incrementally stronger wage growth is going to have
some cataclysmic effect. But yes, if you make people desperate enough,
(20:31):
they will.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Work, all right, Wendy, really great to have you appreciate
the conversation. Wendy Edelberic, Senior Fellow and Economic studies at
the Brookings Institution and former chief economist at the Congressional
Budget Office here with us in Washington. Much appreciate the time.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
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Speaker 4 (21:02):
Are you going to see the new Superman movie this weekend? Everybody?
It's all excited about Superman? Right? The dog Crypto the
latest take on this iconic brand. Yeah, DC Comics, but
a different wrinkle now. James Gunn, the Marvel guy, is
making it. It's supposed to be a more up to date, inspiring,
optimistic take on the old tale. Guys like me who
(21:25):
grew up with Christopher Reeves are supposed to love this stuff.
As you can see on YouTube. The White House, well,
I guess, has its own version of Superman. Donald Trump
in the full outfit, as you can see taking off
into the heavens. I'm going to sort of walk you
(21:47):
back here a little bit because James Gun's been doing
a lot of press. As I read and what is
the best story on the terminal today by the great
Jason Bailey, The headline Superman immigrant backlash is comically misguided.
James Gunn said a couple of things in some of
the media interviews he's been doing. Superman, he said, is
the story of America, he told the London Times quote
(22:09):
an immigrant that came from other places and populated the country,
populated the country. This has created this big woke backlash
against the Superman movie because well, nothing is simple anymore.
Big expos on Fox News. It's set social media on
fire from the far right rage machine, in Jason's words,
(22:34):
hence the post on social media today from the White House,
we see that again President Trump as Superman. Look at
him taken off. He doesn't like dogs though, so I
guess there's no crypto. Of course, Donald Trump has a
history of this. He's been dressing up as a lot
of different things in social media. I remember when he
showed up as Rocky just a couple of years ago
(22:56):
while I was twenty nineteen. Looks pretty good with the belt,
they have to admit. But as Jason Bailey Wright to
the idea that Superman is a previously a political character
who has been co opted by the political left for
cultural indoctrination is comically ignorant. You know the guys who
started this, Jerry Siegel Joe Schuster, both children of Jewish immigrants,
(23:20):
and before we even entered World War Two, they had
a two page story of Look magazine called how Superman
would End the War, in which he literally takes Adolf
Hitler by the throat. There was later a radio show,
Adventures of Superman. The sixteen episode are called Clan of
the Fiery Cross, in which Superman took on the KKK.
(23:40):
So Jason makes the point that there's not a lot
new here, and I'm really glad that he's with us
Bloomberg Opinion guest columnist. He's a film critic and historian
and author of the book Gandalfeini Jim Tony in the
Life of a Legend. Jason, I can tell I like
you already, and I appreciate your coming to talk to
me here on Bloomberg. Are you surprised to see the
wulk backlash? This is speaking not really Superman, but the
(24:02):
political climate we're in here, right right?
Speaker 8 (24:05):
I mean, you kind of put your finger on it earlier.
You know, nothing is simple anymore, nothing is what it appears,
what it's intentions may or may not be. Everything is
up for sort of a deep read that's usually comprised
of a kind of bad faith. And you know, I
knew earlier this year I actually wrote a different Bloomberg
(24:27):
editorial about this that when snow White, the Snow White
remake tanked and suddenly people were eagerly ascribing it to,
you know, to making it an Israel and Palestine issue,
I was like, Oh, we've really sort of crossed the
rubicon here. So I'm unsurprised. I'm especially not surprised. You know,
(24:48):
these debates run rampant throughout popular culture, but especially in
the sort of superhero movie world, which speaks first, you know,
to their cultural ubiquity. Like these really are typically the
biggest blockbusters, the movies that everyone sees and thus has
an opinion on, But they are also typically loaded for
(25:12):
these kinds of readings for a lot of the reasons
that we're seeing with the Superman controversy.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
So you're a you're a film critic, you understand the
business of Hollywood, and you don't see them in your
column to feel that this is going to hurt box
office receipts for this movie. So are people just talking
out of their hats and then going to see the movie?
How does that come together?
Speaker 8 (25:34):
I mean, I think it's very easy to sort of
overestimate the effect that some a small number number of
extremely loud voices can have. And the way that I
put it in the column was that, you know, these takes,
the likes of which we're seeing on you know, Fox
(25:55):
News and Daily Wire in places like that, they generate clicks,
they rate the enthusiasm of that audience that goes to
those outlets, but those probably aren't the audience for these
things anyway.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
You know.
Speaker 8 (26:10):
The best sort of example that I've found was recalling
the hullabaloo from a lot of the same people over
Barbie a couple of years back, and the sort of
the what we're in that case much more explicitly stated
themes of feminism and diversity and that sort of thing,
and you know, people like Ben Shapiro are saying, nobody's
(26:34):
gonna go see this movie and then it literally breaks
box office records, you know, and then someone posted today
someone found a clip of him the like the weekend
after Barbie came out saying, well, you're gonna see a
second weekend drop off on this like no one's ever seen,
and like there was no second weekend drop off.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
It's just, you know, it's.
Speaker 8 (26:53):
It's somewhat performative. I'm sure that in their heart of hearts,
these people are genuinely angry that every single work of
popular art doesn't speak specifically to them. But a lot
of it is generating traffic, generating rage clicks, generating advertiser dollars.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Ugh, it's exhausting, rage clicks. Exhaust got a life. These
are the same people who are going to go see
the movie. That's the best part. Jason really appreciate. Jason
Bailey is a film critic whose work has appeared as
well in The New York Times, Vulture, Playlist, Slate, and
The Rolling Stone. How did we find you at Bloomberg?
This is great, Jason, come back and see us again.
Look for him on the terminal and online. As we
(27:38):
assemble our political panel, Little did Genie Shanzano and Rick
Davis snow they'd be diving into this right now. Bloomberg
Politics contributors Genie senior Democracy fellow with the Center for
the Study of the Presidency in Congress. Rick is Republican
strategist partner at Stone Court Capital. And we'll get to
the tariffs and the other policy coming up in our
second hour, guys, But how about Superman in Crypto here, Genie,
(28:00):
what do you make of the woke outrage over this movie?
Speaker 6 (28:04):
Do you read you one tweet or x that I
saw Joe, because it encapsulates it. Somebody said that Superman
wasn't an illegal immigrant, he was an unaccompanied refugee minor
because he was immediately adopted even though he was born
in Cryptonian. So the people are really going to town
on this the level of detail. You know, we're seeing
(28:28):
a lot of maga backlash. And it's not just against
this movie. From a policy perspective, we're seeing it against
the poort, Agriculture Secretary Brook Rollins and the President for
considering even amnesty for migrant workers. And so it's you know,
they take the promises the President made very seriously, and
(28:48):
they are pushing back at any attempt either by him
or apparently filmmakers to tell a different story or pursue
a different policy. And I would say though that the
Superman filmmakers are very much in keeping with public opinion polls,
which show that people in the United States at least
are largely supportive of immigration, and this pushback that we're
(29:11):
seeing is very much in the minority.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Rick Davis, I'm guessing you were a Christopher Reeves Superman guy,
are we Is this ridiculous or does this actually tell
us something that we can't put a Superman movie on
the screen in this country without having a debate over immigration. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (29:27):
First of all, I'm a big fan of superheroes. I
think they teach moral lessons. I love the fact that
Hollywood invests in these things, you know, and and and
and and let let the chips fall on all these
social media accounts for people who don't have enough time
to do anything but comment or what is the term
(29:50):
raids clicks love it. I'm going to use that all
day to day.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Get over it.
Speaker 9 (29:56):
I do think what's really interesting to me is how
Trump such an enormously good job of appropriating these things.
I mean, how many how many bitcoins are going to
get or meme coins are going to get now minted
with his image as Superman on them that, you know,
get put out there in the public market. I mean,
like it's it's amazing how flexible this administration has been,
(30:21):
either as a campaign or in government, to jump on
these things in a moment's notice and put the president's
image to work on them, to appropriate whatever positive and
and frankly pushback on whatever negative that they can get.
I mean, it is an administration light on their feet.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
GINI, did you see Donald Trump in the Superman outfit
taken off? Is that working for you? What's the message
from the White House? I just want to be serious
for one minute. That's the official White House account put
that photograph up. What are we supposed to take from that?
Speaker 6 (30:58):
It is the same White House that also put up
a picture of him as the Pope. So I don't
think anything surprises us anymore. They are staying relevant, they
are staying on message. They want to consistently talk about
Donald Trump as Superman or as the ruler of the world,
and they want to use these moments to change the narrative,
(31:19):
and so they are trying to do that. It's, you know,
not my cup of tea. I wish we didn't have that,
but we are in what, I don't know what you
call it political tainment or something era. And so this
is what leaders and presidents around the world are doing,
and Donald Trump is the leader of this movement, which
I wish we could pull back from a little bit,
(31:40):
but I'm in the minority.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
I guess, Rick. You see all the crazy AI stuff.
Donald Trump looks like a bodybuilder, He's shooting guns, He's
doing all kinds of crazy things, and sometimes he is
dressed like a superhero. What does it tell you though,
when it's coming from the official White House account. This
isn't fan art we're talking about here. It came from
the actual admistration. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (32:01):
No, I think it's the blurring of you know, sort
of government and.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
The web.
Speaker 9 (32:07):
I mean, he has so many creators out there creating
these kinds of content, whether they're in government or outside
of government, whether they're Trump supporters or just people out
there having a good time, and yet he doesn't blink
when it comes to taking an image that he thinks
is flattering to him and adopting it as his own.
(32:32):
And he's done it throughout his career, right, I Mean,
he's the one guy we know actually dumb it up
a Time magazine cover and put it up in his Office.
I mean like he believes that an image is worth
a thousand, maybe ten thousand words, and he has always
done an exceptional job of appropriation in that regard.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Well, I never thought we'd be having this abstract conversation
with Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano, but that is how
good they are. They're going to be back in our
second hour here, of course, our signature panel on Balance
of Power. As we consider the words of jor L
to his young son Superman Live as one of them,
he said, collel, to discover where your strength and your
(33:16):
power are needed, but always hold in your heart the
pride of your special heritage. You can just imagine the
antenna's going up. They can be a great people, he said, collel,
if they wish to be. Thanks for listening to the
Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you
haven't already an Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts,
(33:39):
and you can find us live every weekday from Washington,
DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kettas live weekdays at noon
and five pm Eastern on Apple Cocklay and Android Auto
with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you
get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
No longer in Washington, at least for the remainder of
the afternoon is President Trump, who departed Washington earlier today
and has actually just touched down VM Marine one after
Air Force one landed in Texas earlier in Kerrville, Texas,
where he will be surveying some of the damage in
areas affected by last week's devastating flooding. And of course
we'll be meeting with state and local officials participating in
(00:46):
a roundtable this afternoon. In the aftermath of this tragedy,
with more than one hundred and seventy people still unaccounted for,
we want to get the latest. In turn to our
Texas Bureau chief, Bloomberg's Julie Fine is joining us from Dallas.
So Julie, just walk us through, if you could, what
we expect to see from President Trump's visit this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, you already saw him with the governor, with the senators,
clearly trying to show unity in this situation. Now he'll
sit down with a round table. He's going to get
a briefing, and he's really going to learn firsthand. I mean,
he's gotten the briefings at the White House, he's gotten
the briefings from FEMA, he's gotten all these briefings. But
he's going to really sit down and get a real
look into what's happening in Texas and what's going to
(01:30):
happen for a long time forward. This cleanup should take
a very very long time. A disaster declaration was declared
for several surrounding counties today as well. He's going to
really see the work ahead. Then he will go and
actually tour the damage site, which you know the media's
been through now you've seen it from the air as well.
(01:52):
It's devastating. You will see cabins, you will see really
debris that a human being is very hard to fathom.
That's what's ahead today.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
You wonder exactly how that's going to affect the President
and the First Lady for that matter, when they see it. Julie.
There has been a call for floodal arms to be
put in this area. It's not the first time we've
heard this, but Governor Abbott, who I know you're in
contact with, is calling for this to be adopted during
a special legislative session. President Trump telling NBC News he
(02:24):
supports that. Will it happen.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I think it will happen in this session. I mean,
I think there will be a little back and forth
with the details involved with it and the actual funding
of it. But when you have the governor and the
Lieutenant governor on record saying we are going to get
this done, you have lawmakers in in just about a
week now, it will be very difficult for them not
to take some very serious action in the aftermath of this.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, and when we consider the aftermath of this and
how it's going to inform policy decisions, not just in
Texas but federally going forward, Julie, as we have questions
around what the administration's intention is when it comes to FEMA.
Is there a sense in Texas that the aftermath of
this could be properly managed by the state alone, or
(03:11):
is it necessary that FEMA is on the ground there
right now.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Well, I'm certain that they want FEMA here right now.
I mean, I suppose I saw a local official the
other day saying simply, anybody that wants to be here,
that can volunteer and help, we want you here. So
certainly FEMA being here is going to help in the aftermath.
You have to look at Joe and Kayley. How much
money and support is going to be needed for such
(03:36):
a long period of time. I mean, the Hill Country
is an extremely popular destination for people in the summer,
but there are also people that live there. There's also
an economy. It's fifty five thousand people, so obviously not
a huge city, but there's an economy there that is
going to need to be rebuilt essentially outside of the city.
(03:56):
So FEMA definitely will be needed. I imagine the governor
will be reaching out as well. Now Texas does have
a very large response. Sadly, this is a state that's
had to really manage quite a few of these type
of tornado type rain situations because of the weather here
and the topography.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Julie, thank you so much for the great reporting our
Texas Bureau chief, Julie Fine.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
The you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast.
Catch us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern
on Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Heard about the tomato tariffs scaley, Yeah, there comes seventeen
percent Mexican tomatoes starting Monday, So start stockpiling the salsa.
I guess Congresswoman Gwen Moore is watching all of this
from her perch in Wisconsin's fourth district. Democratic congresswoman is
with us right now live on Bloomberg TV and radio.
(05:01):
It's great to see you, Representative more welcome back. Are
you stockpiling tomatoes ahead of next week? How do we
deal with these tariffs?
Speaker 5 (05:10):
Well, I tell you I do have a tomato plant
outside my back door, just in case.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
You're doing it right apparently. How concerned are you about
the impact this could have on Wisconsin? Of course, a
major agriculture state, a major dairy state, as we enter
a whole new level of trade war it seems with Canada.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Well, of course I'm very concerned. Years ago I asked
my youngest granddaughter where food came from, and she said,
pick and save.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
So I got worried.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Then you know, the whole supply chain is going to
be disrupted, everything from farmers planning their foods to actually
people who will need and rely on SNAP and so
this will affect grosers, people who have jobs bagging grocers, groceries, inflation,
(06:02):
the cost of groceries, and our farmers. And the only
way that this president seems to be able to address
these things is to try to provide a subsidy for
agriculture workers or to declare that he is not going
to deport Mexican migrants who might be working as agricultural workers.
This is a real big stretch in terms of saving
(06:25):
our economy and lowering costs.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, Congressoman, I would mention in our audience on Bloomberg
TV as well as on YouTube can see this.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Now.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
President Trump has just landed in Texas alongside First Lady
Milania Trump. They of course are now heading into the
helicopter and they'll begin viewing some of the damaged areas
in and around Kerrville, Texas from last weekend's devastating floods.
When we consider a congressom in the future of FEMA,
knowing President Trump has up until recently called for essentially
it's dismantling and sending that responsibility back to the States.
(06:56):
Do you believe that that policy pursuit is one that
he will still actively pursue or could this disaster actually
spell a second chance for FEMA as it currently stands.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
Well, I guess I wish I could predict what President
Trump what was gonna do, because I would not have
predicted that FEMA would have been destroyed. When we have
seen a time and again, whether you believe in climate
change or not, the environmental the environment be shifty, calls, tornadoes,
all kinds of five hundred year weather conditions, and surprise, surprise,
(07:33):
this storm was yet another aggression on the part of
Mother Nature and a warning not to dismantle emergency services.
I heard President Trump say, I wouldn't have even blamed
Joe Biden for this, that you know, But I'm telling
you that there's nothing like preparedness and nothing like being
(07:55):
able to reach people on several different platforms to warn
them to escape. And so I think that it's fine
for him to be there with his wife. That's where
any president should be, and maybe better late than never.
(08:15):
But I think that the agony and misery of this
community is going to continue long after the cameras are gone,
long after Air Force one leaves.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Well, it is pretty heartbreaking to consider one hundred and
seventy people still missing. Congresswomen in Texas is one of
many states that has seen an influx in ICE raids.
Of course, Texas is a border state and is no
stranger to immigration security here, but I want to ask
you about some of the raids that we have been seeing,
in many cases by unmarked and masked individuals who are
(08:46):
purportedly with ICE or sometimes it's hard to tell. Border Patrol.
Department of Homeland Security, you just signed a letter urging
ICE to not deport undocumented victims of crime. Did you
hear a response from the federal government from the administration
on this? Is there anything your office can do to
help them?
Speaker 5 (09:05):
No, the response is hopefully forthcoming. There's nothing more frightening
to me to think of someone throwing a bag over
my head and dragging me away. This is so Unamerican
to not announce which law enforcement agent you are demonstrating
your badge number, and that you have the authority to
(09:27):
take people into custody. This is very chilling, and I
think it's being done deliberately to replicate the tactics of
authoritarian regimes. This is totally unacceptable and it defies people's
You know, I'm not an attorney, but I would think
(09:48):
that if you need a warrant, you would at least
need to disclose who you are as a law enforcement person.
This is totally unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Congressman, when we consider ICE will be getting more funding
along with Customs and border patrol due to the one big,
beautiful bill that just passed in all the various components
in it, With the passage of that bill, with the
potential passage of now a recisions package that could very
well happen in the Senate, do Democrats have any incentive
to deal with Republicans for a government funding deal.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Well, we always have an incentive to do our job
if we're allowed to do our job. You know, the
thing about the package now is that it's the largest
border bill that we have seen in history, and I
don't know that it's always directed at the right equipment.
(10:42):
Democrats have long been for more electronic surveillance, more human
beings that actually evaluate and separate the sheep from the goat,
as it were, at the border. We have always aired
on the side of more border security, you know, but
the building the optics of you know, putting people, uh
you know, surrounding them by alligators.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
This is this is uh costly. It costs so much
money uh to uh you know, the optics Uh Alcatraz,
for example, it costs more money than it's worth in
terms of being of incarcerating people. I think that the
overkill is not only bad for people's personal rights, but
(11:29):
for our budget.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
All right, Congresswoman, we appreciate your time. As always. Democratic
Congresswoman Gwen Moore representing Wisconsin's fourth district here with us
on Balance of Power.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm e's durn On,
Alma Coarcley and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business Up.
Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch
us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
We also wanted to vote us on a subject area
the President actually spoke about with reporters before departing Washington
for Texas. He was talking about immigration. Joe and a
direct quote from the President in his remarks this morning,
we're getting the criminals out, and we're getting them out fast. Now,
as we know a lot of the people who have
been arrested as part of these efforts in the administration
(12:19):
to arrest and deport people do not necessarily have criminal records,
and also their means at getting to these people have
frequently been to raid work.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Please, that's true, and this has been a byproduct of
Stephen Miller's urging of ICE and Immigration officials to increase
the number of detentions per week, per month that are
still running below what we saw in the Biden and
Obama administrations. It was a big raid yesterday Kaylee, California,
in which tear gas was sprayed at protesters. They were
(12:52):
going after a cannabis growth facility. I guess in southern California.
Footage taken that we've taken a look at show them
executing criminal search warrants. They say they got ten juveniles,
eight of them unaccompanied, found at one of the facilities,
rated that all of them were in the country illegally.
When we talk about these raids, we discussed this earlier
(13:13):
on the Hour with Congresswoman ghen More. In many cases,
these agents are masked and are wearing plain clothes, making
it very confusing for the people who are there. You
see a call on social media citizens come protect the
immigrants who are being targeted, and things get pretty ugly
pretty quick. And it's part of the conversation that we
wanted to have with Wendy Edelberg, who is a senior
fellow in Economic Studies at the Brookings Institution, former chief
(13:36):
Economists incidentally at the CBO, the Congressional Budget Office. We
could talk about a couple of things here with Wendy. Welcome,
It's good to see you as we consider the impact
that this policy is having on our workforce in our economy.
When you hear stories like this, the chill could go
much further than the people who were at that site.
What does that mean for workers?
Speaker 7 (13:55):
Absolutely? I mean, so let me first say, I'm coming
at this as an economist. That's my lane. So I'll
talk about the economic effects, but I think those are
dwarfed by just the visceral effect. As an American looking
at these images, I think that effect is far more
important and far bigger than I think what's going to
sound like pretty modest economic effects that I'm about to discuss.
(14:18):
So with some colleagues we put out a report not
so long ago, where we think that it's more than
likely that as a result of this immigration policy, we
will have negative net migration, which is to say, more
people leaving the country than entering the country this year
for the first time in many decades. And that's going
(14:39):
to mean a smaller economy, and that's going to mean
a labor market with numbers that are going to be
not so recognizable, really startling labor market numbers as we
go forward.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Well, and we've seen that in the past several jobs reports.
When we're thinking of the share of the foreign born workforce,
that number is going down, and it's going down substantially,
raising the question of who replace those workers, Wendy, who does?
You can't, who's willing to?
Speaker 7 (15:05):
So let's first step back a bit and talk about
what's probably happening in the labor market right now. So
I appreciate that the published statistics are showing things about
you know, sharef form born and the like those statistics,
While you know, I don't mean to impugne them at all,
these are large changes that are happening right now, and
those statistics are probably not fully catching up with what's happening.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
My guess.
Speaker 7 (15:30):
My analysis suggests that the surge and immigration over the
past few years is actually still pushing up labor supply.
And the reason I say that is because there's a
big swath of immigrants that are that are new to
this country that are eligible to apply for work permits,
and we have seen a surge in those work permit applications,
(15:52):
and while approval rates are down, like for example, between
April and May, this administration approved almost seven hundred thousand
work permits for recent immigrants. And so I think one
of the reasons that we've seen such strong employment numbers
over the past few months, on average one hundred and
fifty thousand, I think that that is because labor supply
(16:14):
is still being pushed up by the recent surgeon immigration.
But we can't ride that wave forever, and we're probably
just about at the moment that that increase in labor
supply comes to an end and we start seeing payroll
employment numbers that are closer to like thirty thousand a month,
really ten thousand a month. In a year or so,
(16:37):
we could start seeing payroll employment numbers that are negative,
and that will be like a healthy, sustainable full employment
labor market, just with declining labor supply and so declining employment.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
So what does that mean for participation and the unemployment rate.
Speaker 7 (16:56):
So there's gonna be some near term gyration the year
from now.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Though, to your point, if we're in a negative growth
on payrolls, what's the rest of the job market look like?
Speaker 7 (17:06):
So I think the rest of the this is going
to be the cognitive dissonance. The thing that's going to
be really hard about understanding the labor market that this
policy has created. Uh, it could well be that we
have a healthy labor market, an unemployment rate that is
that starts with a four.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Labor starts with a force.
Speaker 7 (17:28):
Starts with a four. It could be a nice healthy
labor market, but just have a we have a shrinking
labor supply, and that just means shrinking employment. There are
other economies.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Or wages through the roof in that world for a time.
Speaker 7 (17:44):
I again I think for the for a time, I
think that there will be near term grations. We're going
to see stronger wage growth in some occupations, stronger wage
growth in the agricultural sector, stronger wage growth for home
health workers. But I think other parts of the economy,
and particularly some cities, some areas are actually going to
(18:05):
see big reductions in consumer demand. We're already seeing this
in some areas where we're seeing big raids on immigrant communities,
and businesses there are complaining that they're seeing much less demand.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
For their products.
Speaker 7 (18:22):
Those businesses are going to lower their prices, they're going
to layoff workers, and you're going to have deflationary effects.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I want to focus on the labor supply issue you're
referring to, because we know there are people on the
sidelines in this That's why we don't have a full
labor market participation. The AG Secretary Brook Rawlin suggested in
an interview this week that if you take the agricultural sector,
for example, and the workforce that may be lost by migrants,
that there are people who could replace those workers, people
(18:49):
who need to work in order to be eligible for medicaid.
Do you expect that that actually is a dynamic that
will take place, that that kind of changes to how
you're able to access medicaid could bring people off the sideline.
Speaker 7 (19:02):
So it's the theory of the case. I mean, I'll
say there's a lot of economic analysis that suggests that
if you make people poor enough and desperate enough, they
will work. So I get it. If we decimate the
safety net, we will increase labor supply. I don't know
(19:25):
that it will happen nearly enough to replace the you know,
hundreds of thousands of immigrants that we're talking about no
longer being in this country or not coming. And I'll
also say one of the reasons why I'm skeptical that
this will be a huge effect is that the labor
(19:47):
market has been quite strong for some time, and it
has been a pretty good time to get a job.
And we've seen stronger labor force participation among some groups,
but not those groups have actually largely been women who
have increased their labor force participation rates. There's some excellent
(20:08):
work coming out of the Hamilton Project at Brookings showing
that labor force participation among women has been particularly strong.
Even this strong labor market has not been enough to
get these prime age men office sidelines. So I'm not
sure that incrementally stronger wage growth is going to have
some cataclysmic effect. But yes, if you make people desperate enough,
(20:31):
they will.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Work, all right, Wendy, really great to have you appreciate
the conversation. Wendy Edelberic, Senior Fellow and Economic studies at
the Brookings Institution and former chief economist at the Congressional
Budget Office here with us in Washington. Much appreciate the time.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast ketchas
live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's durn on
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You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, it'slayed Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Are you going to see the new Superman movie this weekend? Everybody?
It's all excited about Superman? Right? The dog Crypto the
latest take on this iconic brand. Yeah, DC Comics, but
a different wrinkle now. James Gunn, the Marvel guy, is
making it. It's supposed to be a more up to date, inspiring,
optimistic take on the old tale. Guys like me who
(21:25):
grew up with Christopher Reeves are supposed to love this stuff.
As you can see on YouTube. The White House, well,
I guess, has its own version of Superman. Donald Trump
in the full outfit, as you can see taking off
into the heavens. I'm going to sort of walk you
(21:47):
back here a little bit because James Gun's been doing
a lot of press. As I read and what is
the best story on the terminal today by the great
Jason Bailey, The headline Superman immigrant backlash is comically misguided.
James Gunn said a couple of things in some of
the media interviews he's been doing. Superman, he said, is
the story of America, he told the London Times quote
(22:09):
an immigrant that came from other places and populated the country,
populated the country. This has created this big woke backlash
against the Superman movie because well, nothing is simple anymore.
Big expos on Fox News. It's set social media on
fire from the far right rage machine, in Jason's words,
(22:34):
hence the post on social media today from the White House,
we see that again President Trump as Superman. Look at
him taken off. He doesn't like dogs though, so I
guess there's no crypto. Of course, Donald Trump has a
history of this. He's been dressing up as a lot
of different things in social media. I remember when he
showed up as Rocky just a couple of years ago
(22:56):
while I was twenty nineteen. Looks pretty good with the belt,
they have to admit. But as Jason Bailey Wright to
the idea that Superman is a previously a political character
who has been co opted by the political left for
cultural indoctrination is comically ignorant. You know the guys who
started this, Jerry Siegel Joe Schuster, both children of Jewish immigrants,
(23:20):
and before we even entered World War Two, they had
a two page story of Look magazine called how Superman
would End the War, in which he literally takes Adolf
Hitler by the throat. There was later a radio show,
Adventures of Superman. The sixteen episode are called Clan of
the Fiery Cross, in which Superman took on the KKK.
(23:40):
So Jason makes the point that there's not a lot
new here, and I'm really glad that he's with us
Bloomberg Opinion guest columnist. He's a film critic and historian
and author of the book Gandalfeini Jim Tony in the
Life of a Legend. Jason, I can tell I like
you already, and I appreciate your coming to talk to
me here on Bloomberg. Are you surprised to see the
wulk backlash? This is speaking not really Superman, but the
(24:02):
political climate we're in here, right right?
Speaker 8 (24:05):
I mean, you kind of put your finger on it earlier.
You know, nothing is simple anymore, nothing is what it appears,
what it's intentions may or may not be. Everything is
up for sort of a deep read that's usually comprised
of a kind of bad faith. And you know, I
knew earlier this year I actually wrote a different Bloomberg
(24:27):
editorial about this that when snow White, the Snow White
remake tanked and suddenly people were eagerly ascribing it to,
you know, to making it an Israel and Palestine issue,
I was like, Oh, we've really sort of crossed the
rubicon here. So I'm unsurprised. I'm especially not surprised. You know,
(24:48):
these debates run rampant throughout popular culture, but especially in
the sort of superhero movie world, which speaks first, you know,
to their cultural ubiquity. Like these really are typically the
biggest blockbusters, the movies that everyone sees and thus has
an opinion on, But they are also typically loaded for
(25:12):
these kinds of readings for a lot of the reasons
that we're seeing with the Superman controversy.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
So you're a you're a film critic, you understand the
business of Hollywood, and you don't see them in your
column to feel that this is going to hurt box
office receipts for this movie. So are people just talking
out of their hats and then going to see the movie?
How does that come together?
Speaker 8 (25:34):
I mean, I think it's very easy to sort of
overestimate the effect that some a small number number of
extremely loud voices can have. And the way that I
put it in the column was that, you know, these takes,
the likes of which we're seeing on you know, Fox
(25:55):
News and Daily Wire in places like that, they generate clicks,
they rate the enthusiasm of that audience that goes to
those outlets, but those probably aren't the audience for these
things anyway.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
You know.
Speaker 8 (26:10):
The best sort of example that I've found was recalling
the hullabaloo from a lot of the same people over
Barbie a couple of years back, and the sort of
the what we're in that case much more explicitly stated
themes of feminism and diversity and that sort of thing,
and you know, people like Ben Shapiro are saying, nobody's
(26:34):
gonna go see this movie and then it literally breaks
box office records, you know, and then someone posted today
someone found a clip of him the like the weekend
after Barbie came out saying, well, you're gonna see a
second weekend drop off on this like no one's ever seen,
and like there was no second weekend drop off.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
It's just, you know, it's.
Speaker 8 (26:53):
It's somewhat performative. I'm sure that in their heart of hearts,
these people are genuinely angry that every single work of
popular art doesn't speak specifically to them. But a lot
of it is generating traffic, generating rage clicks, generating advertiser dollars.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Ugh, it's exhausting, rage clicks. Exhaust got a life. These
are the same people who are going to go see
the movie. That's the best part. Jason really appreciate. Jason
Bailey is a film critic whose work has appeared as
well in The New York Times, Vulture, Playlist, Slate, and
The Rolling Stone. How did we find you at Bloomberg?
This is great, Jason, come back and see us again.
Look for him on the terminal and online. As we
(27:38):
assemble our political panel, Little did Genie Shanzano and Rick
Davis snow they'd be diving into this right now. Bloomberg
Politics contributors Genie senior Democracy fellow with the Center for
the Study of the Presidency in Congress. Rick is Republican
strategist partner at Stone Court Capital. And we'll get to
the tariffs and the other policy coming up in our
second hour, guys, But how about Superman in Crypto here, Genie,
(28:00):
what do you make of the woke outrage over this movie?
Speaker 6 (28:04):
Do you read you one tweet or x that I
saw Joe, because it encapsulates it. Somebody said that Superman
wasn't an illegal immigrant, he was an unaccompanied refugee minor
because he was immediately adopted even though he was born
in Cryptonian. So the people are really going to town
on this the level of detail. You know, we're seeing
(28:28):
a lot of maga backlash. And it's not just against
this movie. From a policy perspective, we're seeing it against
the poort, Agriculture Secretary Brook Rollins and the President for
considering even amnesty for migrant workers. And so it's you know,
they take the promises the President made very seriously, and
(28:48):
they are pushing back at any attempt either by him
or apparently filmmakers to tell a different story or pursue
a different policy. And I would say though that the
Superman filmmakers are very much in keeping with public opinion polls,
which show that people in the United States at least
are largely supportive of immigration, and this pushback that we're
(29:11):
seeing is very much in the minority.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Rick Davis, I'm guessing you were a Christopher Reeves Superman guy,
are we Is this ridiculous or does this actually tell
us something that we can't put a Superman movie on
the screen in this country without having a debate over immigration. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (29:27):
First of all, I'm a big fan of superheroes. I
think they teach moral lessons. I love the fact that
Hollywood invests in these things, you know, and and and
and and let let the chips fall on all these
social media accounts for people who don't have enough time
to do anything but comment or what is the term
(29:50):
raids clicks love it. I'm going to use that all
day to day.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Get over it.
Speaker 9 (29:56):
I do think what's really interesting to me is how
Trump such an enormously good job of appropriating these things.
I mean, how many how many bitcoins are going to
get or meme coins are going to get now minted
with his image as Superman on them that, you know,
get put out there in the public market. I mean,
like it's it's amazing how flexible this administration has been,
(30:21):
either as a campaign or in government, to jump on
these things in a moment's notice and put the president's
image to work on them, to appropriate whatever positive and
and frankly pushback on whatever negative that they can get.
I mean, it is an administration light on their feet.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
GINI, did you see Donald Trump in the Superman outfit
taken off? Is that working for you? What's the message
from the White House? I just want to be serious
for one minute. That's the official White House account put
that photograph up. What are we supposed to take from that?
Speaker 6 (30:58):
It is the same White House that also put up
a picture of him as the Pope. So I don't
think anything surprises us anymore. They are staying relevant, they
are staying on message. They want to consistently talk about
Donald Trump as Superman or as the ruler of the world,
and they want to use these moments to change the narrative,
(31:19):
and so they are trying to do that. It's, you know,
not my cup of tea. I wish we didn't have that,
but we are in what, I don't know what you
call it political tainment or something era. And so this
is what leaders and presidents around the world are doing,
and Donald Trump is the leader of this movement, which
I wish we could pull back from a little bit,
(31:40):
but I'm in the minority.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
I guess, Rick. You see all the crazy AI stuff.
Donald Trump looks like a bodybuilder, He's shooting guns, He's
doing all kinds of crazy things, and sometimes he is
dressed like a superhero. What does it tell you though,
when it's coming from the official White House account. This
isn't fan art we're talking about here. It came from
the actual admistration. Yeah.
Speaker 9 (32:01):
No, I think it's the blurring of you know, sort
of government and.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
The web.
Speaker 9 (32:07):
I mean, he has so many creators out there creating
these kinds of content, whether they're in government or outside
of government, whether they're Trump supporters or just people out
there having a good time, and yet he doesn't blink
when it comes to taking an image that he thinks
is flattering to him and adopting it as his own.
(32:32):
And he's done it throughout his career, right, I Mean,
he's the one guy we know actually dumb it up
a Time magazine cover and put it up in his Office.
I mean like he believes that an image is worth
a thousand, maybe ten thousand words, and he has always
done an exceptional job of appropriation in that regard.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Well, I never thought we'd be having this abstract conversation
with Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano, but that is how
good they are. They're going to be back in our
second hour here, of course, our signature panel on Balance
of Power. As we consider the words of jor L
to his young son Superman Live as one of them,
he said, collel, to discover where your strength and your
(33:16):
power are needed, but always hold in your heart the
pride of your special heritage. You can just imagine the
antenna's going up. They can be a great people, he said, collel,
if they wish to be. Thanks for listening to the
Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you
haven't already an Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts,
(33:39):
and you can find us live every weekday from Washington,
DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.
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