July 17, 2025 • 25 mins
Watch Joe and Kailey LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Bloomberg Washington Correspondents Joe Mathieu and Kailey Leinz deliver insight and analysis on the latest headlines from the White House and Capitol Hill, including conversations with influential lawmakers and key figures in politics and policy.
On this edition, Kailey and guest host Bloomberg Washington correspondent Tyler Kendall speak with:
- Rep. Mike Flood (R-NE), Republican Representing Nebraska's 1st District, Member of the House Financial Services Committee, Vice Chair of the Republican Main Street Partnership
- Rick Davis, Partner at Stonecourt Capital and Bloomberg Politics Contributor & Jeanne Sheehan Zaino, Senior Democracy Fellow with the Center for the Study of the Presidency & Congress and Bloomberg Politics Contributor
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm Kaylee Lyones alongside Tyler Kendall in Washington as we
assess the words of Mary Daily and how they may
resonate with the President of the United States, who is pushing,
of course, for the Fed shair Jerome Powell and the
rest of the FOMC to lower rates. Mary Daily saying
Tyler that she sees the economy and policy as both
being in a good place and suggests that other things
(00:46):
like the commentary from the President are not distracting the
FED from its core missions right.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
She added that two rate cuts this year is a
reasonable outlook, and at the same time, we can't wait
forever on rates, of course, probably something that the President
is looking at too. We saw him post on truth
Social earlier today after we got that retail sales data
again calling Jerome Powell too late, which is where we
want to pick up our conversation and bring in Congressman
(01:11):
Mike Flood from Capitol Hill. He's a Republican representing Nebraska's
first district. He's a member of the House Financial Services
Committee as well as the vice chair of the Republican
Main Street Partnership. Congressman, it's good to see you, and
thanks so much for joining Bloomberg TV and Radio. This
is where we want to start. You have an oversight
role of the FED as a member of House Financial Services.
Can we just get your initial thoughts off the top here?
(01:33):
Do you think that the administration's rhetoric as it rams
up the pressure on Jerome Powell good undermine the credibility
of the Federal Reserve?
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Well, let's start with this.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
I really believe in having an independent central bank. I mean,
that's core to our system. The system has served us well.
We are the world's financial leader. Our systems are the best,
our courts are the best. We have stability that other
countries dream of, and a lot of it because of
an independent central bank. But that doesn't mean that Jerome
Powell is exempt from criticism.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
In two thousand and eight, Congress.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Set up basically an Oversight Committee on Monetary Policy. I
sit on the Monetary Policy Committee today and there's going
to be an exchange of ideas. There hasn't been a
president in the last forty years that has ever not
disagreed with the chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
That's how this works now. The President reaffirmed yesterday that no,
he was not going to fire Jerome Palell.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
He has his opportunity next spring, and the American people
buy and through him will appoint somebody. But I think
just the stock market report you got there, Americans are
optimistic about where this economy is going, and you can
see it in our stock market.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, Congressman, President Trump may have suggested yesterday it's not
his intention right now to fire the chairman. He said
it highly unlikely, but he did suggest the chair still
may need to go if there's evidence of fraud something
that THEFA chair Bill Pulty is suggesting around the renovations
of the Federal Reserve building here in Washington. He's pushing
Congress for an investigation into that. Would you be supportive
(03:06):
of such an investigation.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Well, I think there's a number of different ways that
it can be investigated outside of Congress. Certainly, we won't
walk away from our role in oversight. I simply don't
know enough about this building project. I know that Jerome
Palace is the chairman of the Federal Reserve. It's an
independent central bank. It's going to remain that way. If
there are these allegations, and if they are substantiated, then
(03:29):
of course it will be investigated in the due course.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
But I think we have to keep our eye on
the ball.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
The ball is the American economy. The ball is in
the ri should be on the stock market. Things are
going well, and if we can land these planes in Washington,
with the Big Bill, obviously and the successive legislative priorities
we have, we're going to end this year and set
America up for explosive growth in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Well, Congressman, I want to pull on some of your
expertise here because you do lead the subcommittee on Housing.
Cayley mentioned we had Bill Polty on the show yesterday
and he's blaming the Jerome Powell when it comes to
mortgage rates. But we also know that the Fed can't
control things like supply constraints. I'm wondering what you make
of the administration's argument on this one. Is this a
sustainable argument? Down the line when it does come to
(04:17):
the criticism of the FED chair.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Well, let's talk about housing in America. We are in
a bad spot right now for a number of reasons.
We are five million units short. That's what the realtors say,
that's what the homebuilders say. So we do have a
supply issue. At the same time, because of weather peril
and third party litigation, we have property and casually in
insurance skyrocketing. So now for a lot of homeowners, their
(04:44):
property taxes plus their insurance premiums are more than their
principle and interest. When I bought a home back in
I don't know, two thousand and four, for the first time,
my interest rate was eight point five percent. We've seen
this before. We want it to go down. Everybody wants
to have low interest rates.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I get it.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
But to say that housing is in peril because of
the interest rate, I think that's a really narrow perspective
because there are so many other issues out there, most
notably supply.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, it's great to have your insight on that, Congressman,
given your purview on that subcommittee, I want to talk
about something else that falls obviously under the broader jurisdiction
of financial services, where we saw the initiation of some
of the crypto bills that we're expecting the House to
vote on for final passage just hours from now. It's
been hard fought to get to this point. I thought
that role vote yesterday might stay open forever. Congressman, the
(05:39):
votes do seem to be there for the Genius Act,
which of course was already passed by the Senate. But
for the Clarity Act, even if you can get the
votes today, what future do you think that realistically has
in the Senate in terms of bipartisan cooperation. What are
you hearing from your colleagues in the other chamber.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Well, first of all, what I hear from my constituents
in Nebraska all the time is they want to see
us work in a bipartisan way to deliver results for
the American people and to solve problems.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
I bet you when the Clarity Act.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Is presented to the House of Representatives later today, there
will be at least or maybe as many as seventy Democrats.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
If we can send.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Clarity over to the House with seventy Democratic votes plus
all of the Republicans, I think that makes an excellent
case for getting the sixty votes in the US Senate,
it sends it to President Trump's desk, and America can
take its rightful spot at the very epicenter of stable
coins and digital assets and market structure. All of this
(06:33):
has been in works for several years, but for some
complications in the last couple of months, we could have
even more than seventy votes in the House among Democrats.
So we're on a good trajectory. I know that if
you're watching the debate you're only seeing the naysayers on
the Democratic side, but trust me, there are a lot
of people, and one person I.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Encourage you to really watch her vote is former Speaker
Nancy Pelosi.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
I'm told even she sees the value in the Clarity
Act and sending that over to the Senate.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
So we're at a pretty good path over here. It
never looks pretty.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
It's always made for TV when you watch the Floor
of the House. But it's going to get done and
we're going to have it by this weekend.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Well, Congressman, we know Wall Street is watching this debate
and stable coins have actually made their way into the discussion.
On a series of recent earning earnings calls, we had
JP Morgan, Bank of America City group describing the upstart
of the digital dollar as a potential threat to the
banking industri's grip on payments and signaled that they're prepared
to respond. I'm wondering what reassurances that you could give
to banks that perhaps there's nothing to fear here.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
Well, we worked with the American Bankers' Association throughout this
entire process. I was actually, as a state legislator, made
Nebraska the second state in the nation to allow state
chartered banks to custody digital assets.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Listen, our stable coins.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Only work, in my opinion, they only work around the
world if most of them are custody and American banks.
Where one stable coin equals one dollar in an FDI's
insured bank, that gives me comfort that we are going
to be the world's leader in stable coins. We have
to make sure that banks are intricately involved in this.
This is the business that they bid in for hundreds
(08:12):
of years in our country. I have a strong interest
in making sure it works in sync with a banking community.
And as it relates to these Denovo charters and some
of the things that you see people come forward with,
it all requires capital.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
What do banks have? Banks have capital? Banks understand how
this works.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
They're regulated, they have all sorts of different safeguards.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
They are very aware.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Of know your customer and all the consumer protections. We
bet big on stable coins if banks engage and banks
take the lead, and that's what I want.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Congressman. I'd like to also ask you about Recisions, as
the Senate, of course, was able to pass a nine
billion dollars slightly shrunk recisions package with funding cuts to
PBS and NPR as well as USAID last night. I
assume you and your colleagues will be taking that up
either this evening or tomorrow in the House. But Democrats
are suggesting that this has complicated an effort to be
(09:04):
bipartisan in the appropriations process as we approach the end
of the fiscal year in September. As a result of
passage of this recision's package, Sir, has the aughts of
a government shutdown increased?
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Well, I don't think Recisions has anything to do with it.
Look at the Continuing Resolution we passed in March. Senate
Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. He did the right thing. He
made sure the Senate funded the government. And what happened
to him in the course of a week, he lost
twelve percentage points among Democratic.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Voters in New York.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
AOC is talking about running against him for Senate in
New York, and Chris Murphy was outwardly threatening to take
him down as the Senate leader. Listen, they're in no
mood to be bipartisan. They are in no mood I'm
guessing to work in the budget. But to your point,
we have to. We have no other choice.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
What they're saying, though, is what's the point of reaching
a appropriations deal if in a partisan manner you can
just rescind funding you already agreed to. You don't see
that point.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Use here's the distinction I want to make on the
PBS funding now. I looked into this a lot because
my home state has a very good public broadcasting system,
both in TV and radio and digital. We are not
dissolving the funding forever. We are taking the money for
public television off automatic pilot.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Two years in a row.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
We will still have to decide what funding PBS, the
Corporation for Public Broadcasting, gets in the budget that we
craft and hopefully passed by October first. That is the
specific impact of recisions on the PBS funding now. I
can't comment on all the other programs that are in there.
I know some money for AIDS was put back in
for HIV situations, but I hear you. I know, I
(10:52):
understand the argument. I just don't think you can tie
it to just recisions. I think this is a the
Democrats base does not want to see them working with Republicans.
The Democrats base is telling their supporters to go to
our town halls and get arrested, to go to our
town halls and physically confront members of Congress. It's a
very different, aggressive approach that I'm sure many traditional Democrats
(11:16):
don't agree with, but their party is in no mood
to see a lot done in a bipartisan manner. I
am very hopeful that we can do that. I'm working
with my Democratic counterpart very well on housing supply issues
in my subcommittee, so I know it can happen.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
I just hope it does happen.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
All right, Congressman, we appreciate you joining us here on
balance of power. As always, Republican Congressman Mike Flood of Nebraska,
member of the House Financial Services Committee, also vice chair
of the Republican Main Street Caucus with us here on
Bloomberg TV and Radio, and.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
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Speaker 2 (12:07):
Tyler Kendall and myself are keeping you up to date
on all things happening here in Washington, which, as we
speak right now at the White House is a press
briefing with the White House Press Secretary Caroline Lovitt. It's
just begun. She's running right now through the president's upcoming
travel schedule, including a trip to Scotland that is scheduled
for the end of next week. But of course we're
going to be paying close attention to whether or not
she sheds any light on the ongoing narrative around President
(12:29):
Trump and his feelings or intentions with the Federal Reserve
Chair Jerome Powell, which he took to True Social to
talk about again today, referring to him only as too late,
saying great numbers just out referring to this morning's retail
sales data lower the rate in all caps, so still
pushing for lower interest rates. Even after suggesting yesterday Tyler
that he's not planning to fire Chairman pell at least
(12:52):
right now.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
He said it would be highly unlikely, though he did
confirm that he actually floated the idea to a group
of Republicans who visited him at the White House earlier
this week to talk about some stalled legislation that was
on the hill. He denied that there was a letter written,
which is actually something that you pressed the head of
the Federal Housing Finance Agency, Bill Polty on last night.
He wouldn't confirm or deny whether or not he had
(13:14):
written this letter in question.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, after The New York Times reported that he had
drafted something given it to the President and maybe that's
what the President was flashing the round. Pulty didn't want
to comment on that specifically in our interview, but of
course he did have pretty strong thoughts on the future
of the FED chairman, what the President should do or
what Chairman Pal specifically should do as he pushes for
his resignation. Here's part of what he told us.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Ultimately, the President will make whatever decision that he sees said,
and of course the president always follows the law and
he'll continue to do that. That will ultimately be up
to the president. All I can tell you is in
charge of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack, I see the
devastation every day that is occurring as a result of
these interest rates being kept high relative to inflation. Inflation
(13:58):
for the last three months is at one point six
per on a run rate basis. There's no basis to
have these rates at four and a half percent. Interest
rates on mortgages have gone from three percent in President
Trump's first term to seven percent. It's time that Jerome
Powell resign, and as I said, I hear that he's
considering resigning, and I hope he does it very soon.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
We should say that we did press Pulty on who
he has heard that the chair is considering resigning, and
he wouldn't give us further details than that. But that
is where we do want to start by bringing in
our political panel. They're both Bloomberg Politics contributors, Rick Davis,
partner at Stone Court Capital and Jeanie Schanzino, Senior Democracy
fellow with the Center for the Study of the Presidency
(14:42):
and Congress. Rig I want to start with you, and
I actually want to pull on a note from Terry
Haynes of Pangaea Policy, who writes that Senate opposition to
the president's rhetoric is actually being led by members of
the Senate Banking Committee, which of course has some oversight
over the FED, including Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana, who
has recently said that he does not believe a president
and to any president has the authority to fire the
(15:03):
Federal Reserve chair. I'm wondering could Republicans in the Senate
perhaps put up a roadblock here because aren't they going
to have to confirm any other nominee that the President
would put up to replace jer Own Powell.
Speaker 7 (15:15):
Yeah, that certainly is the strength they have on the
back end. Although you know, we've had some pretty controversial
picks up to this point in time in the President's cabinet,
and each time almost one hundred percent of the cabinet
has been confirmed by the same set of senators. So
the reality is it's a great threat until you actually
have to implement it. I'd be surprised that if the
(15:38):
President does wind up appointing a new FED chairman, regardless
of whether it's through a firing or retiring that the
Senate does anything other than confirm his appointee.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, of course, we have a long way, we think,
before we get to that point, Genie, if we'd take
the President at his word that he's not intending on
firing Chairman Powell at least for right now, to nominate
someone until Pal's term is coming to an end next year.
In the mid meantime, though, when we think about what
President Trump really wants to achieve, or at least what
he's signaling, he wants to make sure the interest burden
is not such a burden.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
In the United States.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He doesn't want us to be having to pay so
much out on our debt. He wants mortgage rates for
Americans to be lower. And yet there are plenty of
market participants who suggest you mess with the independence of
the Federal Reserve and actually what you might get is
higher interest rates on the long end of the treasury curve.
Is there a chance here that the market actually is
the one that's going to have to speak since to
(16:33):
President Trump?
Speaker 8 (16:36):
Absolutely, and I think we've been hearing this over and
over again for the last six months of his second term.
Is that so much of what he has said and
done economically, it has been the market that has had
to quote unquote talk since into him. And so he is,
like most presidents, wants the interest rates to go down.
(16:56):
And there's nothing new about this.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
But you look, on the one.
Speaker 8 (17:00):
Side, his tariff policy and all of this uncertainty is
working against him, and Jerome Powell and most economists will
tell you that. And so it may be the market
in the end that has to do this. And you know,
one big component of this entire issue is this uncertainty
with his tariffs, and yet his commitment to that has
(17:23):
outweighed everything else, and so that continues to put a
strain on this issue of lowering the interest rates.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Well, to build off of this rick, we actually have
a great story on the Bloomberg terminal today about how
President Trump is struggling to market the Reconciliation Package, the
One Big Beautiful Bill. There's a new CNN pull out
this week that says sixty one percent of Americans actually
oppose the legislation. Now, the idea of this legislation is
to stimulate the economy, get more cash into consumers pockets quickly.
(17:54):
I'm wondering what your take is, why is the messaging
around this bill if we're looking at this polling not
resonating yet with Americans.
Speaker 7 (18:02):
Well, I think one thing is that the administration really
has not done much marketing. We talked about this tonight
the bill was passed in the United States Senate, that
they have been spending months talking to each other about
selling this bill, but they have not been spending months
talking to the American people about the benefits of this bill,
and they still haven't done that. In fact, the President
(18:24):
had a wonderful opportunity in Pennsylvania to talk about it,
and he talked about job creation and industry, which is
his favorite topic when he hits the Huskings, but he
didn't address the basic framework of the tax cuts and
the budget cuts. So unless somebody named Donald Trump is
out talking about this bill every day, the American people
(18:45):
are going to listen to who is, and that is
Democratic senators, Democratic House members, leaders of the Democratic Party,
and they have a different take on this. One of
the things you can assume is one of the reasons
why the President is so desperate for these tax cuts
is to get the economy moving faster, to take credit
for that because of the passage of the Big Beautiful Bill.
(19:08):
So there are certainly good political reasons to want to
see those interest rates come down, and obviously economic growth
is one of them.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well, as Rick points us to subjects that President Trump
does or does not want to talk about, in subjects
that Democrats do or do not want to talk about, Genie,
let's bring Jeffrey Epstein into this conversation, because this is
of course a saga that has dominated Washington for the
last week or so, as conservatives or far right members
of the MAGA movement continually are pushing for more transparency
(19:40):
around the Epstein files, and President Trump is continually saying
he is not interested in talking about this any further,
and actually took to True Social yesterday to slam some
of his supporters directly saying, quote, their new scam is
what we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein hoaxed and
my past supporters have bought in to this BS, hook
(20:02):
line and sinker. They haven't learned their lesson and probably
never will, even after being conned by the lunatic left
for eight long years. This is to his own supporters, Genie,
or I guess what he's now referring to as his
past supporters. What does it make you think.
Speaker 8 (20:18):
I think we are looking at the first time in
his political life that Donald Trump has not been able
to control the narrative as it pertains to his own supporters.
This has really gotten away from him. I described it
before as sort of a Frankenstein and that is what
we are seeing. And you know, Donald Trump usually is
(20:39):
a very good and what I would call strategist or
executioner when it comes to the media, and he's been
anything but on this Ebstein story. And you just said it, Kayleie,
you want to stop talking about something, and yet you
keep going on truth Social all weekend, day and night
long posts. You go into the old yesterday, you talk
(21:01):
about it more, and then to make matters worse, you
fire a prosecutor without apparent cause, and that would be
homie and you do that and that regies it all
up again. And of course much of your supporters, from
Joe Rogan to Megan Kelly. I mean, the list goes on.
Even on the epc sp Brather Awards last night, there
(21:24):
was a great joke about it. This thing has its
own life and Donald Trump is not controlling it.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Well, Rick to build off this, we saw Congress from Brocanna,
He's a progressive from a Democrat from California. He actually
introduced a bill with an unlikely ally though they have
paired up on legislation before, which is Thomas Massi, a
Republican from Kentucky, that would essentially force the House to
vote on the complete release of the government's files. When
you have Congress now getting involved so heavily in this,
(21:53):
is this a story that's going to go away for
this White House?
Speaker 7 (21:57):
Well, this is the perfect summer skin. I mean, we
always have one in the summertime in Washington. One of
the reasons we love Washington in the summer, maybe the
only reason we love Washington in the summer. And this
is a bipartisan scandal. I mean, Jim Jordan has got
Pam Bondi coming in for a August hearing in the
(22:18):
House of Representatives.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
That ought to be a ton of fun.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
But as you point out, Democrats and Republicans are all
calling for the same thing, transparency.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Let's get it all out.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
You know.
Speaker 7 (22:29):
In fact, I think that the only person right now
left in his corner to defend against both parties is
Donald Trump. And for what reason He's made good political
points on you know, berating the deep state that's keeping
these this information from you. There's never been an articulation
(22:50):
as to why there isn't a more thorough examination of
these records. So you know, the jig is up. This
is going to happen for the next sixty today day
and maybe the only relief is Labor Day for the
president because then all things turn to what's happening on
the hill and maybe he gets out of the jam.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Then well, Rick, interesting that you bring up transparency as
we are getting a bit of medical transparency right now
out of the White House Press briefing, as the Press
Secretary Carolinelevitch shares that President Trump underwent a medical exam
for a swelling in his leg, that that exam found
chronic venus insufficiency, though Trump overall, she says, remains in
(23:30):
excellent health. Will of course continue to monitor any updates
in that regard for you, Genie, But when we consider
this issue of transparency around Jeffrey Epstein specifically, you could
make the case that for President Trump, yes, it may
be annoying to have to talk about it, but he's
not running for reelection. He's in his last term. Less
of a problem for him. What about someone like jd
(23:51):
Vance who may have greater ambitions and talked a big
game about Epstein prior to being the second hand to
the president in this administration. What kind of does this
put him in?
Speaker 8 (24:02):
Yeah, I mean it's a perfect example jd Vance and
other members of both the administration and quite frankly members
of Congress who find themselves caught between you know, this
huge mag of voice, whether it's in podcasting, whether it's online,
and the President himself who's saying stop this. And so,
you know, we're going to see how jd Vance is
(24:23):
able to handle it. I think the safe bed is
is that he should call for transparency, as you and
just talking about, because that is something that almost everybody
agrees is necessary in a case like this. And the
problem is now with the President out there calling it
a hoax, you have to ask the President what is
(24:45):
the hoax? Jeffrey Epstein's crimes against children, his pedophilia, what
is this hoax? And he has yet to explain that.
And so for jd Vance to have to answer these
questions and other Republicans or supporters of President Trump, it
becomes very very messy and This doesn't go away any soon.
When the problem is in your home, when it is
(25:05):
in your base, it is very hard to run away
the same way you can when it's coming from the
other side.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
All right, Jeanie Shanzano and Rick Davis, our political panel
weighing in on this year's summer scandal.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm Kaylee Lyones alongside Tyler Kendall in Washington as we
assess the words of Mary Daily and how they may
resonate with the President of the United States, who is pushing,
of course, for the Fed shair Jerome Powell and the
rest of the FOMC to lower rates. Mary Daily saying
Tyler that she sees the economy and policy as both
being in a good place and suggests that other things
(00:46):
like the commentary from the President are not distracting the
FED from its core missions right.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
She added that two rate cuts this year is a
reasonable outlook, and at the same time, we can't wait
forever on rates, of course, probably something that the President
is looking at too. We saw him post on truth
Social earlier today after we got that retail sales data
again calling Jerome Powell too late, which is where we
want to pick up our conversation and bring in Congressman
(01:11):
Mike Flood from Capitol Hill. He's a Republican representing Nebraska's
first district. He's a member of the House Financial Services
Committee as well as the vice chair of the Republican
Main Street Partnership. Congressman, it's good to see you, and
thanks so much for joining Bloomberg TV and Radio. This
is where we want to start. You have an oversight
role of the FED as a member of House Financial Services.
Can we just get your initial thoughts off the top here?
(01:33):
Do you think that the administration's rhetoric as it rams
up the pressure on Jerome Powell good undermine the credibility
of the Federal Reserve?
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Well, let's start with this.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
I really believe in having an independent central bank. I mean,
that's core to our system. The system has served us well.
We are the world's financial leader. Our systems are the best,
our courts are the best. We have stability that other
countries dream of, and a lot of it because of
an independent central bank. But that doesn't mean that Jerome
Powell is exempt from criticism.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
In two thousand and eight, Congress.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Set up basically an Oversight Committee on Monetary Policy. I
sit on the Monetary Policy Committee today and there's going
to be an exchange of ideas. There hasn't been a
president in the last forty years that has ever not
disagreed with the chairman of the Federal Reserve.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
That's how this works now. The President reaffirmed yesterday that no,
he was not going to fire Jerome Palell.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
He has his opportunity next spring, and the American people
buy and through him will appoint somebody. But I think
just the stock market report you got there, Americans are
optimistic about where this economy is going, and you can
see it in our stock market.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, Congressman, President Trump may have suggested yesterday it's not
his intention right now to fire the chairman. He said
it highly unlikely, but he did suggest the chair still
may need to go if there's evidence of fraud something
that THEFA chair Bill Pulty is suggesting around the renovations
of the Federal Reserve building here in Washington. He's pushing
Congress for an investigation into that. Would you be supportive
(03:06):
of such an investigation.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Well, I think there's a number of different ways that
it can be investigated outside of Congress. Certainly, we won't
walk away from our role in oversight. I simply don't
know enough about this building project. I know that Jerome
Palace is the chairman of the Federal Reserve. It's an
independent central bank. It's going to remain that way. If
there are these allegations, and if they are substantiated, then
(03:29):
of course it will be investigated in the due course.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
But I think we have to keep our eye on
the ball.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
The ball is the American economy. The ball is in
the ri should be on the stock market. Things are
going well, and if we can land these planes in Washington,
with the Big Bill, obviously and the successive legislative priorities
we have, we're going to end this year and set
America up for explosive growth in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Well, Congressman, I want to pull on some of your
expertise here because you do lead the subcommittee on Housing.
Cayley mentioned we had Bill Polty on the show yesterday
and he's blaming the Jerome Powell when it comes to
mortgage rates. But we also know that the Fed can't
control things like supply constraints. I'm wondering what you make
of the administration's argument on this one. Is this a
sustainable argument? Down the line when it does come to
(04:17):
the criticism of the FED chair.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Well, let's talk about housing in America. We are in
a bad spot right now for a number of reasons.
We are five million units short. That's what the realtors say,
that's what the homebuilders say. So we do have a
supply issue. At the same time, because of weather peril
and third party litigation, we have property and casually in
insurance skyrocketing. So now for a lot of homeowners, their
(04:44):
property taxes plus their insurance premiums are more than their
principle and interest. When I bought a home back in
I don't know, two thousand and four, for the first time,
my interest rate was eight point five percent. We've seen
this before. We want it to go down. Everybody wants
to have low interest rates.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I get it.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
But to say that housing is in peril because of
the interest rate, I think that's a really narrow perspective
because there are so many other issues out there, most
notably supply.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, it's great to have your insight on that, Congressman,
given your purview on that subcommittee, I want to talk
about something else that falls obviously under the broader jurisdiction
of financial services, where we saw the initiation of some
of the crypto bills that we're expecting the House to
vote on for final passage just hours from now. It's
been hard fought to get to this point. I thought
that role vote yesterday might stay open forever. Congressman, the
(05:39):
votes do seem to be there for the Genius Act,
which of course was already passed by the Senate. But
for the Clarity Act, even if you can get the
votes today, what future do you think that realistically has
in the Senate in terms of bipartisan cooperation. What are
you hearing from your colleagues in the other chamber.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Well, first of all, what I hear from my constituents
in Nebraska all the time is they want to see
us work in a bipartisan way to deliver results for
the American people and to solve problems.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
I bet you when the Clarity Act.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Is presented to the House of Representatives later today, there
will be at least or maybe as many as seventy Democrats.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
If we can send.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Clarity over to the House with seventy Democratic votes plus
all of the Republicans, I think that makes an excellent
case for getting the sixty votes in the US Senate,
it sends it to President Trump's desk, and America can
take its rightful spot at the very epicenter of stable
coins and digital assets and market structure. All of this
(06:33):
has been in works for several years, but for some
complications in the last couple of months, we could have
even more than seventy votes in the House among Democrats.
So we're on a good trajectory. I know that if
you're watching the debate you're only seeing the naysayers on
the Democratic side, but trust me, there are a lot
of people, and one person I.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Encourage you to really watch her vote is former Speaker
Nancy Pelosi.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
I'm told even she sees the value in the Clarity
Act and sending that over to the Senate.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
So we're at a pretty good path over here. It
never looks pretty.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
It's always made for TV when you watch the Floor
of the House. But it's going to get done and
we're going to have it by this weekend.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Well, Congressman, we know Wall Street is watching this debate
and stable coins have actually made their way into the discussion.
On a series of recent earning earnings calls, we had
JP Morgan, Bank of America City group describing the upstart
of the digital dollar as a potential threat to the
banking industri's grip on payments and signaled that they're prepared
to respond. I'm wondering what reassurances that you could give
to banks that perhaps there's nothing to fear here.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
Well, we worked with the American Bankers' Association throughout this
entire process. I was actually, as a state legislator, made
Nebraska the second state in the nation to allow state
chartered banks to custody digital assets.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Listen, our stable coins.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Only work, in my opinion, they only work around the
world if most of them are custody and American banks.
Where one stable coin equals one dollar in an FDI's
insured bank, that gives me comfort that we are going
to be the world's leader in stable coins. We have
to make sure that banks are intricately involved in this.
This is the business that they bid in for hundreds
(08:12):
of years in our country. I have a strong interest
in making sure it works in sync with a banking community.
And as it relates to these Denovo charters and some
of the things that you see people come forward with,
it all requires capital.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
What do banks have? Banks have capital? Banks understand how
this works.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
They're regulated, they have all sorts of different safeguards.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
They are very aware.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Of know your customer and all the consumer protections. We
bet big on stable coins if banks engage and banks
take the lead, and that's what I want.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Congressman. I'd like to also ask you about Recisions, as
the Senate, of course, was able to pass a nine
billion dollars slightly shrunk recisions package with funding cuts to
PBS and NPR as well as USAID last night. I
assume you and your colleagues will be taking that up
either this evening or tomorrow in the House. But Democrats
are suggesting that this has complicated an effort to be
(09:04):
bipartisan in the appropriations process as we approach the end
of the fiscal year in September. As a result of
passage of this recision's package, Sir, has the aughts of
a government shutdown increased?
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Well, I don't think Recisions has anything to do with it.
Look at the Continuing Resolution we passed in March. Senate
Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. He did the right thing. He
made sure the Senate funded the government. And what happened
to him in the course of a week, he lost
twelve percentage points among Democratic.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Voters in New York.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
AOC is talking about running against him for Senate in
New York, and Chris Murphy was outwardly threatening to take
him down as the Senate leader. Listen, they're in no
mood to be bipartisan. They are in no mood I'm
guessing to work in the budget. But to your point,
we have to. We have no other choice.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
What they're saying, though, is what's the point of reaching
a appropriations deal if in a partisan manner you can
just rescind funding you already agreed to. You don't see
that point.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Use here's the distinction I want to make on the
PBS funding now. I looked into this a lot because
my home state has a very good public broadcasting system,
both in TV and radio and digital. We are not
dissolving the funding forever. We are taking the money for
public television off automatic pilot.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Two years in a row.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
We will still have to decide what funding PBS, the
Corporation for Public Broadcasting, gets in the budget that we
craft and hopefully passed by October first. That is the
specific impact of recisions on the PBS funding now. I
can't comment on all the other programs that are in there.
I know some money for AIDS was put back in
for HIV situations, but I hear you. I know, I
(10:52):
understand the argument. I just don't think you can tie
it to just recisions. I think this is a the
Democrats base does not want to see them working with Republicans.
The Democrats base is telling their supporters to go to
our town halls and get arrested, to go to our
town halls and physically confront members of Congress. It's a
very different, aggressive approach that I'm sure many traditional Democrats
(11:16):
don't agree with, but their party is in no mood
to see a lot done in a bipartisan manner. I
am very hopeful that we can do that. I'm working
with my Democratic counterpart very well on housing supply issues
in my subcommittee, so I know it can happen.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
I just hope it does happen.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
All right, Congressman, we appreciate you joining us here on
balance of power. As always, Republican Congressman Mike Flood of Nebraska,
member of the House Financial Services Committee, also vice chair
of the Republican Main Street Caucus with us here on
Bloomberg TV and Radio, and.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
us live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's durn
on Apple, Cocklay and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business App.
You can also listen live on and is on Alexa
from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played
Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Tyler Kendall and myself are keeping you up to date
on all things happening here in Washington, which, as we
speak right now at the White House is a press
briefing with the White House Press Secretary Caroline Lovitt. It's
just begun. She's running right now through the president's upcoming
travel schedule, including a trip to Scotland that is scheduled
for the end of next week. But of course we're
going to be paying close attention to whether or not
she sheds any light on the ongoing narrative around President
(12:29):
Trump and his feelings or intentions with the Federal Reserve
Chair Jerome Powell, which he took to True Social to
talk about again today, referring to him only as too late,
saying great numbers just out referring to this morning's retail
sales data lower the rate in all caps, so still
pushing for lower interest rates. Even after suggesting yesterday Tyler
that he's not planning to fire Chairman pell at least
(12:52):
right now.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
He said it would be highly unlikely, though he did
confirm that he actually floated the idea to a group
of Republicans who visited him at the White House earlier
this week to talk about some stalled legislation that was
on the hill. He denied that there was a letter written,
which is actually something that you pressed the head of
the Federal Housing Finance Agency, Bill Polty on last night.
He wouldn't confirm or deny whether or not he had
(13:14):
written this letter in question.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, after The New York Times reported that he had
drafted something given it to the President and maybe that's
what the President was flashing the round. Pulty didn't want
to comment on that specifically in our interview, but of
course he did have pretty strong thoughts on the future
of the FED chairman, what the President should do or
what Chairman Pal specifically should do as he pushes for
his resignation. Here's part of what he told us.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Ultimately, the President will make whatever decision that he sees said,
and of course the president always follows the law and
he'll continue to do that. That will ultimately be up
to the president. All I can tell you is in
charge of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack, I see the
devastation every day that is occurring as a result of
these interest rates being kept high relative to inflation. Inflation
(13:58):
for the last three months is at one point six
per on a run rate basis. There's no basis to
have these rates at four and a half percent. Interest
rates on mortgages have gone from three percent in President
Trump's first term to seven percent. It's time that Jerome
Powell resign, and as I said, I hear that he's
considering resigning, and I hope he does it very soon.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
We should say that we did press Pulty on who
he has heard that the chair is considering resigning, and
he wouldn't give us further details than that. But that
is where we do want to start by bringing in
our political panel. They're both Bloomberg Politics contributors, Rick Davis,
partner at Stone Court Capital and Jeanie Schanzino, Senior Democracy
fellow with the Center for the Study of the Presidency
(14:42):
and Congress. Rig I want to start with you, and
I actually want to pull on a note from Terry
Haynes of Pangaea Policy, who writes that Senate opposition to
the president's rhetoric is actually being led by members of
the Senate Banking Committee, which of course has some oversight
over the FED, including Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana, who
has recently said that he does not believe a president
and to any president has the authority to fire the
(15:03):
Federal Reserve chair. I'm wondering could Republicans in the Senate
perhaps put up a roadblock here because aren't they going
to have to confirm any other nominee that the President
would put up to replace jer Own Powell.
Speaker 7 (15:15):
Yeah, that certainly is the strength they have on the
back end. Although you know, we've had some pretty controversial
picks up to this point in time in the President's cabinet,
and each time almost one hundred percent of the cabinet
has been confirmed by the same set of senators. So
the reality is it's a great threat until you actually
have to implement it. I'd be surprised that if the
(15:38):
President does wind up appointing a new FED chairman, regardless
of whether it's through a firing or retiring that the
Senate does anything other than confirm his appointee.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, of course, we have a long way, we think,
before we get to that point, Genie, if we'd take
the President at his word that he's not intending on
firing Chairman Powell at least for right now, to nominate
someone until Pal's term is coming to an end next year.
In the mid meantime, though, when we think about what
President Trump really wants to achieve, or at least what
he's signaling, he wants to make sure the interest burden
is not such a burden.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
In the United States.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He doesn't want us to be having to pay so
much out on our debt. He wants mortgage rates for
Americans to be lower. And yet there are plenty of
market participants who suggest you mess with the independence of
the Federal Reserve and actually what you might get is
higher interest rates on the long end of the treasury curve.
Is there a chance here that the market actually is
the one that's going to have to speak since to
(16:33):
President Trump?
Speaker 8 (16:36):
Absolutely, and I think we've been hearing this over and
over again for the last six months of his second term.
Is that so much of what he has said and
done economically, it has been the market that has had
to quote unquote talk since into him. And so he is,
like most presidents, wants the interest rates to go down.
(16:56):
And there's nothing new about this.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
But you look, on the one.
Speaker 8 (17:00):
Side, his tariff policy and all of this uncertainty is
working against him, and Jerome Powell and most economists will
tell you that. And so it may be the market
in the end that has to do this. And you know,
one big component of this entire issue is this uncertainty
with his tariffs, and yet his commitment to that has
(17:23):
outweighed everything else, and so that continues to put a
strain on this issue of lowering the interest rates.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Well, to build off of this rick, we actually have
a great story on the Bloomberg terminal today about how
President Trump is struggling to market the Reconciliation Package, the
One Big Beautiful Bill. There's a new CNN pull out
this week that says sixty one percent of Americans actually
oppose the legislation. Now, the idea of this legislation is
to stimulate the economy, get more cash into consumers pockets quickly.
(17:54):
I'm wondering what your take is, why is the messaging
around this bill if we're looking at this polling not
resonating yet with Americans.
Speaker 7 (18:02):
Well, I think one thing is that the administration really
has not done much marketing. We talked about this tonight
the bill was passed in the United States Senate, that
they have been spending months talking to each other about
selling this bill, but they have not been spending months
talking to the American people about the benefits of this bill,
and they still haven't done that. In fact, the President
(18:24):
had a wonderful opportunity in Pennsylvania to talk about it,
and he talked about job creation and industry, which is
his favorite topic when he hits the Huskings, but he
didn't address the basic framework of the tax cuts and
the budget cuts. So unless somebody named Donald Trump is
out talking about this bill every day, the American people
(18:45):
are going to listen to who is, and that is
Democratic senators, Democratic House members, leaders of the Democratic Party,
and they have a different take on this. One of
the things you can assume is one of the reasons
why the President is so desperate for these tax cuts
is to get the economy moving faster, to take credit
for that because of the passage of the Big Beautiful Bill.
(19:08):
So there are certainly good political reasons to want to
see those interest rates come down, and obviously economic growth
is one of them.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well, as Rick points us to subjects that President Trump
does or does not want to talk about, in subjects
that Democrats do or do not want to talk about, Genie,
let's bring Jeffrey Epstein into this conversation, because this is
of course a saga that has dominated Washington for the
last week or so, as conservatives or far right members
of the MAGA movement continually are pushing for more transparency
(19:40):
around the Epstein files, and President Trump is continually saying
he is not interested in talking about this any further,
and actually took to True Social yesterday to slam some
of his supporters directly saying, quote, their new scam is
what we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein hoaxed and
my past supporters have bought in to this BS, hook
(20:02):
line and sinker. They haven't learned their lesson and probably
never will, even after being conned by the lunatic left
for eight long years. This is to his own supporters, Genie,
or I guess what he's now referring to as his
past supporters. What does it make you think.
Speaker 8 (20:18):
I think we are looking at the first time in
his political life that Donald Trump has not been able
to control the narrative as it pertains to his own supporters.
This has really gotten away from him. I described it
before as sort of a Frankenstein and that is what
we are seeing. And you know, Donald Trump usually is
(20:39):
a very good and what I would call strategist or
executioner when it comes to the media, and he's been
anything but on this Ebstein story. And you just said it, Kayleie,
you want to stop talking about something, and yet you
keep going on truth Social all weekend, day and night
long posts. You go into the old yesterday, you talk
(21:01):
about it more, and then to make matters worse, you
fire a prosecutor without apparent cause, and that would be
homie and you do that and that regies it all
up again. And of course much of your supporters, from
Joe Rogan to Megan Kelly. I mean, the list goes on.
Even on the epc sp Brather Awards last night, there
(21:24):
was a great joke about it. This thing has its
own life and Donald Trump is not controlling it.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Well, Rick to build off this, we saw Congress from Brocanna,
He's a progressive from a Democrat from California. He actually
introduced a bill with an unlikely ally though they have
paired up on legislation before, which is Thomas Massi, a
Republican from Kentucky, that would essentially force the House to
vote on the complete release of the government's files. When
you have Congress now getting involved so heavily in this,
(21:53):
is this a story that's going to go away for
this White House?
Speaker 7 (21:57):
Well, this is the perfect summer skin. I mean, we
always have one in the summertime in Washington. One of
the reasons we love Washington in the summer, maybe the
only reason we love Washington in the summer. And this
is a bipartisan scandal. I mean, Jim Jordan has got
Pam Bondi coming in for a August hearing in the
(22:18):
House of Representatives.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
That ought to be a ton of fun.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
But as you point out, Democrats and Republicans are all
calling for the same thing, transparency.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Let's get it all out.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
You know.
Speaker 7 (22:29):
In fact, I think that the only person right now
left in his corner to defend against both parties is
Donald Trump. And for what reason He's made good political
points on you know, berating the deep state that's keeping
these this information from you. There's never been an articulation
(22:50):
as to why there isn't a more thorough examination of
these records. So you know, the jig is up. This
is going to happen for the next sixty today day
and maybe the only relief is Labor Day for the
president because then all things turn to what's happening on
the hill and maybe he gets out of the jam.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Then well, Rick, interesting that you bring up transparency as
we are getting a bit of medical transparency right now
out of the White House Press briefing, as the Press
Secretary Carolinelevitch shares that President Trump underwent a medical exam
for a swelling in his leg, that that exam found
chronic venus insufficiency, though Trump overall, she says, remains in
(23:30):
excellent health. Will of course continue to monitor any updates
in that regard for you, Genie, But when we consider
this issue of transparency around Jeffrey Epstein specifically, you could
make the case that for President Trump, yes, it may
be annoying to have to talk about it, but he's
not running for reelection. He's in his last term. Less
of a problem for him. What about someone like jd
(23:51):
Vance who may have greater ambitions and talked a big
game about Epstein prior to being the second hand to
the president in this administration. What kind of does this
put him in?
Speaker 8 (24:02):
Yeah, I mean it's a perfect example jd Vance and
other members of both the administration and quite frankly members
of Congress who find themselves caught between you know, this
huge mag of voice, whether it's in podcasting, whether it's online,
and the President himself who's saying stop this. And so,
you know, we're going to see how jd Vance is
(24:23):
able to handle it. I think the safe bed is
is that he should call for transparency, as you and
just talking about, because that is something that almost everybody
agrees is necessary in a case like this. And the
problem is now with the President out there calling it
a hoax, you have to ask the President what is
(24:45):
the hoax? Jeffrey Epstein's crimes against children, his pedophilia, what
is this hoax? And he has yet to explain that.
And so for jd Vance to have to answer these
questions and other Republicans or supporters of President Trump, it
becomes very very messy and This doesn't go away any soon.
When the problem is in your home, when it is
(25:05):
in your base, it is very hard to run away
the same way you can when it's coming from the
other side.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
All right, Jeanie Shanzano and Rick Davis, our political panel
weighing in on this year's summer scandal.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find
us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern
at Bloomberg dot com.
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