Sound On: Kabul Explosions, Biden Response

Guests: Wisconsin Republican Congressman Mike Gallagher, Retired Lieutenant General David Deptula, Lester Munson, Principal at government relations firm, BGR Group and Bloomberg Politics Contributor Jeanne Sheehan Zaino.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On.
We have to have this debating conference about whether we
should be in places like Afghanic death. This how that
has changed. We've got a hold of accountable Bookie, how
they governed? Floomberg Sound On, Politics, Policy and perspective from
DC's top names. The infrastructural bill or create jobs that

(00:25):
we desperately need in this country, good paying jobs. We
need to go all out through a green, renewable economy
and all of the infrastructures to make that happen. Bloomberg
Sound On with Joe Maview on Bloomberg Radio, a special
edition of Sound On Live from Washington, where President Biden

(00:45):
is set to address the nation this hour, following a
tragic day in Afghanistan where twelve American service members were
killed and dozens more injured in two blasts outside of
the Kabbal Airport, where thousands of US troops or of course,
working to evacuate thousands of Americans and Afghans before a
complete withdrawal next week. We have yet to see or

(01:07):
hear from President Biden today. We did receive a briefing
a little while ago from Sentcom Commander General Kenneth Mackenzie.
It's a hard day to day, as you know, to
suicide bombers assessed to have been ISIS spiders detonated in
the vicinity of the Abbey gate at Hammad Carza International
Airport and in the vicinity of the Barren Hotel, which
is immediately adjacent. And as we wait to hear from

(01:29):
the President's we turned to our top guest, Congressman Mike Gallagher,
Republican from Wisconsin and marine who served in Iraq. Congressman,
welcome to Bloomberg Radio. We've been looking forward to speaking
with you because your name has been in the air
for the balance of the day. As the House, Republican
Leader Kevin McCarthy calls on Speaker Nancy Pelosi to bring

(01:49):
back members of Congress before August thirty one for a
briefing and for a vote on your legislation that would
prohibit the withdrawal of our troops until every amount is
out of Afghanistan. Do you have a sense of when
that would be Well, no, and I've sat through multiple
classified briefings now and ask these questions from everybody, to

(02:12):
the Secretary of Defense, to the head of Policy and
depending on down and you know, I can't even get
a clear definition of what they think the mission is,
and we don't even have a good estimate of how
many Americans are there right now. But I think the
principle behind which we should all unite is that as Americans,
we don't leave American citizens behind and too cut and run,

(02:38):
knowing that we're going to be not only leaving American
citizens behind, but effectively condemning thousands of our Afghan allies
to death, just because we want to stick to some
arbitrary August thirty one days so the President can claim
he ended the war by September eleven, there by handing
the Talibana massive propaganda victory. Makes no sense to me.

(03:01):
Uh And I've been surprised by the amount of bipartisan
pushbacks that the administration has been getting. But at the
same time, when it came time to vote on my legislation,
all of the Democrats hold it because they didn't want
to jeopardize the Bernie Sanders budget going through. So I
hope we can learn from this. I hope we can reconvene.

(03:23):
I hope we can all stand up for the basic
idea that we don't cut and run and leave our
people in harm's way. And I fear this situation could
get worse. I mean, today is the day that's going
to live in infamy, uh certainly for Marine Corps history.
And it's all the more tragic because it was avoidable.
Eleven marines died today that did not need to die.

(03:43):
But that's where we are. Congressman, is noteworthy as a marine,
you're more comfortable with the Congress making these decisions than
the commander in chief. Well, I think part of the
problem we have here with US foreign policy is Congress
has completely ab cages its constitutional role, whether it's authorizations

(04:05):
for war, but also involving itself an oversight for war termination.
Interestingly enough, I supported an amendment. It was a bipartisan amendment,
working with a Congressman Jason Crowe uh in the UH
in last year's Defense built that would have prevented the
Trumpet then Trump administration from withdrawing below four thousand troops

(04:27):
until they had done a proper risk assessment. The Biden
administration then came in and waives the requirement for a
risk assessment. So here we had Congress trying to reassert
itself in oversight of war operations and military planning. And
yet the executive branch, being thoroughly over empowered, has ignored

(04:51):
our impulses. And I think without a healthy given take
from you know, the first and second branch of our government,
you're going to get more fiasco's like this. But the
President seems insensitive to criticism. He seems to be doubling
down on his position. And we're watching one of the
biggest fiasco's in modern military history unfold the fair before

(05:13):
our eyes. It's gonna long lasting, damaging consequences for the
credibility of our military deterrent around the world. Well, how
does that qualify Congress them to be making tactical decisions
like this for the U. S. Military should it not
come back to a new authorization of forces. I wouldn't
call it a tactical decision. I mean Congress is not saying, hey,

(05:34):
put your your LP here, or put your perimeter X
number of feet away from this part of the airport.
We're actually trying to involve ourselves in a strategic decision
of when and how to withdraw from the country. Now,
I understand that those of us who wanted a small,
enduring force to remain in Afghanistan, as I did and

(05:57):
some of my Republican Democratic colleagues did. Lost the argument.
We lost the argument with the previous administration. We lost
the argument. This administration got it. Uh. But at a minimum,
I think we should all work together on how to
make this, you know, uh, make sure that all Americans
get home. And I feel like I have a responsibility
to my constituents, many of whom have concerns. Many of

(06:19):
them know people that are still trapped in Afghanistans as
well as do the men and women that I served
with in uniform, to do whatever I can to make
sure we don't leave anybody behind. So I think Congress
is engaged in a good space effort to try and
make sure we don't abandon people to their debt, to
make sure this doesn't get any worse. But I understand
that the broader decision to withdraw has been made by

(06:44):
the Commander in chief and it's going to be difficult,
as not impossible, to reverse that decision. And so we
are therefore going to be left with just mitigating the
fallout and the increase and terror threats, as well as
the decrease in credibility among our allies talking with Congress
from Mike Alaga, Republican from Wisconsin, who authored legislation that
would prohibit the withdrawal of American troops until all Americans

(07:07):
are out of Afghanistan, and we understand that we're down
to about a thousand. Another five Americans were lifted out
of the country today. Congress from before we get further
or or without pushing further into politics, I'm curious to
hear your ideas about what's happening on the ground right now. Apparently,
the US military, according to General Mackenzie, is in talks

(07:27):
with the Taliban to expand the perimeter, extend the perimeter
around the airport, and also closed roads in some cases
that are leading that way. Is that the right move now?
And what else needs to happen? Well, it's still remarkable
to me that we find ourselves almost entirely dependent upon
the generosity and goodwill of the Taliban, an entity that

(07:52):
can't be trusted. We've also had reports today that the
administration provided a Taliban with a list of all the
Americans and scan allies we wanted out. If that is true,
it is a monumentally stupid decision, effectively providing, you know,
an al Qaeda affiliate with a kill lift. And you know,
as much as I'd like to see the security perimeter extended,

(08:16):
I like us to figure out some better system for uh,
you know, preventing things like this from happening. I just
can't help but despair knowing that we are so dependent
on the goodwill of the Taliban, and and scratch my
head thinking how we found ourselves yea position, And I
think it really illustrates the flaw in the logic here

(08:37):
that somehow, you know, we could rely it on the
Taliban as security partner and they wouldn't turn crack down
on Al Qaeda or ISIS or other terrorist groups. That's
that's just a fantasy. But sure, are you quoting? Are
you quoting a report? Are you telling us that the
Biden administration has handed over the names of all Americans
in Afghanistan at the talent? I'm quoting a political report

(08:58):
that came out couple of hours ago. Again, we are
now since Congress is not in session, we are back
in our districts. So it's not based on anything that
I have personally been briefed on. I have asked via
the Armed Services Committee as a ranking member on the
Military Personnel Subcommittee. Uh foreign answer from the Pentagon, But
I would tell you uh that I ask um high

(09:20):
level Pentagon officials yesterday in a brief thing. I said, please,
do you keep talking about these assurances we've gotten from
the Taliban. The Taliban have assured us they're gonna guarantee
save passage of our people to the airport. What assurances
have we given them? Can you tell me that I'm
not going to pick up a newspaper a week from now,
two months ago, two years from now and learn that

(09:42):
we have some secret deal with the Taliban. And they
assured me, no, there's no secret side deal. But you know,
this report maybe the first of many shoes to drop
that suggests more to the administration's arrangement with the Taliban
than we understand, which would be very, very, very troubling. Indeed,
this report, the Congressman refers to buy. Politico reads that

(10:06):
US officials in Cobbal gave the Taliban a list of
names of American citizens, Green card holders and Afghan allies
to grant entry into the outer perimeter of the city's airport,
a choice, as I read from Politico, that has prompted
outrage behind the scenes from lawmakers and military officials. Congressman
Gallagher clearly one of them. A Congressman, you've been critical

(10:29):
of President Biden. What do you want to hear him
say when he speaks this hour? You know, in in
the president's previous addresses to the nation, he seems to
have expressed no humility or or a willingness to say, hey,
this the situation has gotten out of control. Um, And
instead he seems to be casting the blame on a

(10:51):
lot of other people. I just would like him to
to own up to this obviously expressed sympathies in the
appropriate level of of heartbreak, given that we've lost the
leven Marines and and one sailor, and by the way,
that that body counts could go up as we learn
learn more because there were a lot of wounded in
action as well. Um. But I just would like the

(11:11):
President to look America in the eye and say, we're
gonna do whatever it takes to get our citizens out
of there and to keep our people's states. You know,
I don't expect that he's gonna say, well, I'm reversing
my decision to get out, and we're gonna retake Bodrom
and this and that and all the other things I'd
like to see happen. But at a minimum, I think
he needs to own up to this. And maybe it's

(11:34):
too soon right now, just because all our focus needs
to be on getting our people out safely. But at
some point somebody or a group of people needs to
be held accountable for this massive failure UH and military
operational failure, a judgment failure in terms of the overall decision,
and strategic failure in terms of the logic that was

(11:55):
deployed to justify this. I think the American people are
crying out for accountability, and I think the President should
take advantage of that too. UM not only hold members
of his NAPS security team accountable to demand the resignation,
but then perhaps rebuild that team in a bipartisan fashion. UM,
maybe abide by the old adage that politics stopped at

(12:18):
the water's edge. You know, That's what I would like
to see in my my fantasy world, but I'm not
sure I'm hopeful that's what's gonna happen. As we wait
to hear from the President, and we understand that could
happen in any moment. He'll be speaking from the East Room.
We've been told that retaking Bogram would lead to a
blood bath. Do you think that that is true, that
that would be a deadly battle? And if we kept

(12:39):
troops in Afghanistan and cob Will beyond the deadline, could
that lead to more loss of American troops? It's certainly good, um.
And you know, I am not I'm not sanguine about this,
and I'm not naive as to the corner that we've
we've painted ourselves into. And the reality is we're very
few options right now and may be too late to

(13:00):
do some of these things. But I do think at
a minimum, at a minimum, we have a moral responsibility
to get our people out of that country. And even
if it entails some risk, even if it requires patrolling
outside the wire, it's what we're gonna have to do.
We just don't leave Americans behind. Um. You know. As
for some of these more ambitious plans like taking Bography,

(13:21):
eyes that this ship, the ship may have sailed just
because we've we've painted ourselves into this corner. And certainly
regarding the thirty first deadline, the Taliban has threatened us
that if we stay one second longer, uh, there will
be consequences. But you know, at the end of the day,
we're the United States of America, with the most powerful
country in the history of the world, and when it

(13:42):
comes to protecting our own citizens, we shouldn't take orders
from terris um. So that's that's kind of how I
feel about the whole thing. Conference with Mike Gallagher, Republican
from Wisconsin, a marine who served in Iraq. We thank
you for being with us today on Bloomberg Sound On.
I'm Joe Matt you in Washington, and we do have
eyes on the East Room of the White House as

(14:04):
we wait to hear from President Biden. I can tell
you that the press pool is being ushered into the
room right now, and that tends to happen a couple
of minutes before the President speaks, so we will likely
be hearing from him shortly. Like to hear from our panel,
if that's possible. Genie She and Zano, Bloomberg Politics contributor,
joined today by Lester months in the Principle at Government

(14:25):
Relations from b g Our, former staff director for the
Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Genie and Lester, thank you. The
President could speak at any time, so I'll just warn
you in advance that we could be headed to the
White House. But Genie, I'll start with you here. You've
been critical as a Democrat of President Biden. Is there
anything that he could say today that would make you
feel better about this trajectory of this withdrawal? You know,

(14:47):
I don't think there's anything he could say make people
feel better. What I think we will hear is a
lot in the expression of sympathy, and what we heard
today earlier in the briefing that this mission will continue.
They are not going to be deterred. What I would
like to hear from him in addition to that is
I would like to hear if we are going to
respond to this attack, how they're going to ensure that

(15:07):
they get all Americans and allies out. And then also
this stunning piece that you were just talking to the
congressman about. Is it true as Politico is reporting that
they handed over the names of Americans, Green card holders
and Afghan allies to the Taliban and what people are
describing essentially as a kill list. Did that actually occur?

(15:28):
And so those are the things I would hope he
would address in addition to expressions of sympathy and the
mission continuing. Lester, I'd like to hear from you as
well on this and your expectations, maybe your hopes on
what you would like to hear from the president. Could
he say anything now that would give you more confidence
in where we're going? Well, I agree with you any completely.

(15:48):
I would add it would be nice to hear from him,
more than nice to hear from him a determination to
bring out all Americans who remain trapped at the airport
and cobble. And it would also, I think, who the
president to describe the steps he is taking to make
sure we don't see another attack like the one we

(16:10):
saw today. So I'll just add those to the list
of things that Genie had mentioned. How should this work, Genie?
Some have suggested the president may not take questions. He
has not taken questions and all of these events most
recently and we are now hearing sound from the east
room where cameras are pointed at the green room door
waiting for him to enter. Does he need to have

(16:32):
an exchange, Genie with reporters following what I presume will
be a relatively brief address. We haven't heard an exchange
like that, as you just mentioned, I would hope we would.
I thought that what General mackenzie and you were talking
about this earlier. I thought he gave a stunning press conference.
He answered a lot of questions and it was very,
very detailed as he explained what these troops are going through.

(16:52):
I would hope the President would do some of the
same tonight, but again, he hasn't taken questions. I'm not
convinced he will, but but I have my fingers used
on that one. Lester Monson, do you want to see
the US stay longer in Cobble as Congressman Gallagher's legislation
would call for, or does this mean that US forces
should leave earlier? I'm in complete agreement with the Congressman.

(17:16):
I think America doesn't leave people behind. We should be
staying until all Americans are out. I don't I don't
really thinks that's negotiable. Um it's going to Today has
been a pretty rough day for the country for obvious reasons.
Things things would get worse if we were to leave

(17:38):
Cobble with with any number of Americans remaining on the ground.
I just think that would be a huge mistake. Understood
the panel here on Bloomberg Sound On, Jennie she and
say no. Lester Monthson stay with us. They'll be around
for the hour. I want to speak with General David Deptula,
who is also with us today. We have lined up
some of the smartest people we know to talk about

(17:59):
this too. Understand what has happened and where we might
be going. Former director of the Combined Air Operations Center
for Operation Enduring Freedom, where the General orchestrated air operations
over Afghanistan and the outset of this mission some twenty
years ago, a fighter pilot and an organizing general. General Deptula,
welcome back to Bloomberg Sound. We had a chance to

(18:21):
talk just a couple of days ago. I didn't think
we'd be having this conversation today. Yeah, it's unfortunate. Uh,
but let me jump in in front of your question,
just by making it clear that we all owe the
US military addict gratitude uh in our unwavering support for
their dedication, commitment, and professionalism. Uh. They've just been doing

(18:42):
a magnificent job an unfortunately military pace of price for
this effort. So gonces to the families of the twelve
service members who lost their lives today executing their mission. General,
thank you for saying that. We heard from General Kenneth
Mackenzie earlier today in a Pentagon briefing, and he spoke
to the work that our men and women in uniform

(19:03):
are up to, and I want everybody to hear this.
This is close up work. The breath of the person
you are searching is upon you. While we have overwatching place,
we still have to touch the close of the person
that's coming in. I think you all can appreciate the
courage and the dedication that is necessary to do this job,
and to do it time after time. Please remember that

(19:26):
we have screened over one and four thousand people. Think
about that. The breath of the person you are screening
is upon you. You're touching the clothing of that individual. General,
today we saw suicide bombers infiltrate the system that we
have around the airport. What is your first thought as

(19:46):
as a military strategist here in preventing this from happening
once again? Is it expanding the perimeter around the airport?
Is it freezing evacuations for an how or something else? Well, um,
you know it's an appropriate question, But first I tell
you security is degrading so fast that there's no way

(20:07):
UH to get all the Americans out by thirty feet
of August, So we should not adhere to that arbitrary deadline.
The deadline needs to be conditions based. In other words,
we only leave when the missions accomplished, that being the
withdrawal of all US citizens who want to leave and
the friends of the US who have appropriate credentials. Now,

(20:30):
the second part is I believe the civilian airport at
Kabul should be abandoned and the operations shifted to Bagram
air Base because yeah, as Gjenal mackenzie talked about, yeah,
you have to inspect everybody, but the fact of the
matter is that the location in which you do that
inspection is important. It was an absolutely irresponsible decision to

(20:52):
abandon Bogram Airfield in the first place. Bogram's defendable, Kabul
is not. Bogram has two runways first as Kabul's one,
so through throughput could be doubled. Uh. And then finally,
in third and most important is our asymmetric advantage in
Afghanistan was and remains air power. So why we withdrew

(21:14):
our air power from Bogram prior to the complete evacuation
of Americans was unconscionable. So you know, I gotta tell
you the Taliban only understand and respect force. So the
US force needs to get back into the equation of
ground forces but with air power. You know Bogram better

(21:37):
than most people. What would it take to retake that base?
How deadly would that mission be? Well, it's a good question.
And I don't know what the what the current conditions
are on the ground, um, and and who is occupying Bogram,
But I'm sure that that's an option that's being considered
by Central Command. And it's not a matter of if

(21:59):
it could be done, it's a matter of when. But
all of that kind of ties back to everything I've
said so far. It kind of depends on what people
need to understand is the military is not operating independently.
They're operating under the guidance of the commander in chief,
our president. So uh, that's part of the issue. Uh. Well, Um,

(22:22):
what I mean is that it's been very obvious that he,
the President of the United States, has been overseeing a
serious case of misplanning and lack of foresight by his
National Security training team. Uh. And and so uh he
needs to start listening to the options presented by the military,

(22:44):
his combatant commanders uh and realizing things like setting an
arbitrary date versus uh, waiting until the missions actually accomplished
before we leave. I mean that's kind of that's a
fundamental decision that were is. Uh, you know, I don't
know what he made the basis of it on, but

(23:05):
it sounds like, you know, the Taliban have taken that
thirty one August planning date and turned it into a
red line, and it sounds like the President's basically capitulating
to that line of thought, and he shouldn't be doing that. General,
I didn't want to pull you into politics, but you
went there, so I'll ask you. Would you support Congressman
Mike Gallagher's legislation that would require American forces to stay

(23:29):
in Cobble until all Americans are evacuated. Uh. We shouldn't
have to legislate common sense to the executive branch of government.
So I'd have reservations, not because I disagree with his intent, um,

(23:49):
but we should have an executive branch that should be
able to make that common sense decision themselves. That David Depla, Yes, indeed,
and I appreciate your answering that question. Speaking emotionally from
the White House, where he invokes his late son Bo Biden,
who served in Iraq and of course died of cancer

(24:10):
after he came home. You heard the President live as
he issued a warning to the people who orchestrated the
attacks today in Cobble. To those who carried out this attack,
as well as anyone who wishes America harm, know this,
we will not forgive. We will not forget. We will

(24:33):
hunt you down and make you pay. We're joined again
by Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie she and Zano, along with
Lester Munthson principle that government relations from b g Our,
former staff director of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I'd
like to get the instant reaction from both of you. Genie,
we talked going into this address. I don't know what

(24:55):
exactly that was. The way that that hole back and
forth with the press was cording aided. But in terms
of the speech itself, how about we separate these the
prepared remarks from President Biden. How did that strike you?
Did he say enough? I think he said what we expected.
As you mentioned, he expressed a good deal of sympathy
and empathy for the families. Um he you know, obviously

(25:17):
talked about his son. He also said that we will
not forgive. We will hunt down those attackers, and I
thought most importantly in his prepared remarks, he said, we
will rescue the Americans and any Allies who want to
get out. Our mission will continue after the thirty first.
Is how I heard this. But we're still withdrawing the
troops by the thirty first, So I'm a bit confused

(25:39):
if I can say that. As to how we would
get Americans and allies out after that deadline, he said,
there is a way to do that. He said it
also in the questions to the press. If I understood
this correctly, and yet I wasn't clear on how he
would actually facilitate that once we get out. Lester, how
did you uh consider his tone and tenor? He sounded sad, somber,

(26:06):
There was a moment of silence, sounded tired speaking personally
about his son. Was that the right approach to address
the nation? Do we have less? All? Right? Go ahead?
I'm not sure that's the approach I would have taken.
I think he had a nice response on what to
do about isis Chorussan, But I agree with Jeanie there's

(26:30):
this fundamental confusion here about what exactly the mission is
In his prepared remarks, he said, we will get every
American out who wants to get out. Later, in response
to a question, he said, we'll get out as many
people as possible before the deadline, and then later at
the near the end. To an in response or another question,

(26:52):
he said, after we leave, we will work to get
people out, and there was an implication that some of
those would be a Ricans by working with the Taliban. Um.
I don't really think that's a coherent policy that is
going to be doable or make any sense, and so
I think this confusion about the overall mission remains. I

(27:17):
think a lot of the things he said to express
empathy were very appropriate. The moment of science is appropriate.
The tough line on I's course and was appropriate, But
there remains this fundamental confusion from him about the mission
and how we're going to accomplish it. Genie. He did
go on to say that he's listening to his military
advisors and prepared to respond, listen to Joe Biden, the

(27:38):
military whatever they need. If they need additional force, I
will granted, but the military from the Chairman of the
Joint Chiefs, the Joint Chiefs, commanders in the fields have
all contacted me one way or another, usually by letter,
saying they subscribe to the mission is designed to get

(28:02):
as many people out as we can within the timeframe.
That's a lot of what do you make of that, genie,
He's essentially handing things over to the military. If you
ask me for more, I will give you more. And
we know already according to General Kenneth Mackenzie, that we're
in talks with the Talibans to expand the perimeter, close
some roads. Maybe there's more to this. What do you

(28:22):
think the military asks for here? The President apparently is
prepared to say yes. I think it's important that he
does listen to the military on the ground, and I
don't think he's been doing that prior to this. Hence,
are you know this hard withdraw deadline that is based on,
you know, some sort of deadline political deadline versus what's
going on operationally. So I think it's important he listened.

(28:45):
I think he's gonna maybe walk himself into an issue though,
you know, as as he was saying he will listen,
they will likely request more troops. For example, does he
then send in those troops when he's prepared to get
out now I'm thinking it's about hundred hours or so
before we're supposed to get out of there. So again,
it's sort of this mixed message I kept hearing here. Um,

(29:08):
you know, you were talking to General Deptula right before
the President spoke, and he was very critical about why
we would withdraw air power, why pull out of Bagram.
And we also heard the President say he had listened
to his advisors and the military on that. Um, that's
not what I understood prior. So I think there's a
lot to be squared here, and I think people are

(29:29):
going to be going through what he had to say
because it doesn't always, in my mind, line up with
what we've heard prior and what I think we might
hear since. Genie she Inzano, Bloomberg Politics contributor, thanks for
all your hard work today. We've spent quite a bit
of time together both on TV and radio with regard
to this story. And Lester Months and b GR Group
and former staff director the Senate Form Relations Committee, We

(29:50):
thank you for your analysis. You're on Bloomberg Radio. I'm
Joe Matthew and Washington. We heard the President speak. We
also heard from the congressman who wrote the legislation that
would keep our troops in Afghanistan until all Americans are out.

(30:11):
It is unclear if that will get a vote. As
President Biden says, quote, we will respond with force and
precision at our time, at the place we choose, in
the moment of our choosing. We'll be following this throughout
the evening and of course straight through tomorrow here on
Bloomberg Radio. So do stay with us and we'll meet
you back here for the Friday edition of Sound on Daybreak.

(30:35):
Asia is next. Stay right here for the latest. I'm
Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg