September 23, 2025 • 18 mins
After months of negotiation, the US and China have reached a tentative agreement to secure TikTok’s future in the US.
On today’s Big Take Asia Podcast, host K. Oanh Ha sits down with Bloomberg’s Josh Wingrove and Mark Anderson to unpack TikTok’s “America-First” era. They discuss what you need to know about potential changes to the platform, how a majority American-controlled board could impact the app’s future and what the deal tells us about China-US negotiations moving forward.
Read more:
TikTok’s Algorithm to Be Secured by Oracle Under Trump Deal
What We Do and Don’t Know About US TikTok Deal With China
Further listening:
Americans Flocked to RedNote as the TikTok Ban Loomed. Will the Party Last?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Last Friday, President Donald Trump announced that his Chinese counterpart
Shi Jinping, had tentatively approved a deal to save TikTok
in the US.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I had a great goal with President Jay and as
you know, he approved the TikTok deal and we're in
the process with.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Under the proposed agreement, TikTok's US operations would be separated
from its Chinese parent company byt Edance, and a group
of new US backers would own a majority stake in
the company.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
This deal is part of a broader push to put
the Trump trade war behind them to re engage with
the US administration.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Mark Anderson is a Bloomberg Asia Tech editor based in
Hong Kong.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The very fact these two men were speaking was very significant.
Of course, the relations between China and the US are
at one of their lowest points for you years, and
both leaders are really looking to ratchet down the tension
and move on to the next chapter.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
On Friday, China's Foreign Ministry stops short of saying that
Beijing had given its final blessing and urged fair treatment
of Chinese interests.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Is the toy for of the Chinese statements.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
Well, I think I think so. I mean when you
say fully aproved, I don't know what that means. We
have to get we have to get it signed.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I guess most China analysts will tell you that when
she goes to those meetings, he sees it as sort
of a bow tying moment. All the work has been
done and he is there to bless things.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Josh Wingrove is Bloomberg's senior White House correspondent. He's been
covering the fight over TikTok since twenty twenty, when then
President Trump signed an executive order calling for its parent
company to divest its ownership or face a man in
the US.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Trump doesn't work that way, right. Trump wants to get
in it and pass it a deal himself and leave
the fine prend to tomorrow or to others. And so
that has been just sort of like an up is down,
down is up, diametrically a toast approach between the two countries.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Right now, This is the big take Asia from Bloomberg News.
I'm wanha. Every week we take you inside some of
the world's biggest and most powerful economies and the markets,
tycoons and businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today
(02:23):
on the show, we're diving into the TikTok deal between
the US and China, what it means for American users,
and who gained the upper hand at the negotiating table.
The battle over TikTok's fate in the US has been
(02:44):
brewing for years. The app is owned by a Chinese
corporation and exploded in popularity with American users back in
twenty twenty, during the early days of the COVID pandemic.
Up heart, Hey, everybody, welcome to my TikTok page.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
Okay, then what down should I try first?
Speaker 4 (03:04):
I love to take.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Since then, TikTok has experienced the type of growth most
tech companies can only dream of. It has more than
one hundred and seventy million users in the US alone,
that's half of the population, and its parent company, by Dance,
is valued at more than four hundred billion dollars, making
it the most valuable private business in China. Now.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
To US based.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Users, the app feels so American. It's widely popular with
gen zs, and it created a new class of entrepreneurs
influencers who've turned their Internet hustles into full time careers.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Here's how much I made it off of social media
as a college student who has twenty thousand dollars on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
If you want to go viral here on tech talk,
you're going to do these four things. But the app
is very much not American, and Bloomberg's Asia Tech editor
Mark Anderson says that's a big part of the problems.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Have long been concerned that TikTok could be used to
spy on American citizens. This stems from the fact that
China requires its companies to share national security data with
its government, so US officials are worried that China's government
could abuse the data of US TikTok users. You know,
they could collect dossia's a personal information, they could blackmail them,
(04:21):
they could exploit content preferences.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And a lot of concern about political interference during the action.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Season, especially in US elections.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yes, critically, in the twenty twenty US election, TikTok was
a very powerful platform. It's worth noting that Donald Trump
personally benefited from this, and there have been studies that
have shown that his ticket was boosted by TikTok, so
I think for him it's a personal issue. I've had
more people say, could you try and keep TikTok alive?
Speaker 5 (04:51):
I use TikTok. I mean I have to admit it
in the election, and look how I did with you.
No Republicans come alone today.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
President Trump is a TikTok advocate, but in his first
term he pushed for a ban, calling the app a
threat to national security. That sentiment was echoed by President Biden,
who signed a law requiring Byteedance to either Celtic Talk
or discontinue service in the US. The Supreme Court upheld
that ban and put the fate of the app back
(05:20):
in Trump's hands.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
President Trump has been deferring enforcement of that law by
executive action, and no one really seems spun up about it.
But it also does not seem clear that he has
iron cloud legal authority to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Bloomberg's Josh Wingrove and Mark Anderson say what's become clear
in recent months is that Presidents Trump and she are
looking for a solution for TikTok and for opportunities to
ease tensions between the two countries.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
The drama over trump Tariff's reaching up to one hundred
and forty five percent is still very fresh in the
mind for Sijenping, who's very much trying to change the
relationship in a way that benefits Beijing and possibly divest
TikTok at a crucial moment that helps him navigate the
next chapter in an advantageous way and secure better terms
(06:11):
for Chinese exports to the US.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
What do we know about the agreements that were reached
on TikTok so far?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
What we know about the deal so far is that Oracle,
the software giant, will take a major role in leading
a consortium that will also include Anderson Horovitz and silver
Lake Management. They will have an eighty percent or more
ownership stake in TikTok us as required by a law
that was passed last year in the United States. By dance,
(06:39):
the owner of TikTok at the moment must reduce its
stake to twenty percent or less.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
On top of that, the White House says this new
US only TikTok will be controlled by a board with
seven members, six of whom will be American. In an
interview with Fox News, Trump suggested that Michael Dell and
the family behind Fox, specifically Lachlan Murdoch and his father Rupert,
may also be involved in the TikTok takeover.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I hate to tell you this, but a man named
Lachlan is involved.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
You know, Lachlan is It's a very unusual name, Lachlan.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Murdoch, mister murder, I believe, and you call him and
Rupert is.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
Probably going to be in the group. I think they're
going to be.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Then there's the platform itself. While it's not clear yet
whether users will have to download a new app or
update their existing one, Mark says TikTok will create a
new platform for users in the US.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
The deal will create a new entity, a new app
that users will migrate to, and it will recreate the algorithm.
So I think the new owners are hoping for as
little disruption as possible to the user experience that these
one hundred and seventy million people know and love.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And of course the algorithm has been such a huge
point of contention. Right, this is what is used by
TikTok to suggest stories, suggest reels for people to right.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
The algorithm is a key sticking point for this deal.
The US law that was passed in twenty twenty four
says by Dance must give up complete control of the
algorithm and the technology that supports the algorithm if it's
going to keep TikTok alive in the country. But from
the very beginning of these talks about deal, and as
recently as a few weeks ago, the Chinese government has
(08:22):
set it refuses to do that. Most social networking platforms
rely on users to share content with each other. What
TikTok did that's so revolutionary is they created a way
for the app itself to suggest content to users through
their recent activity and their declared interests. So it really
allows people to interact with a platform completely on their own,
(08:47):
without any friends in the real world.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
A Beijing official said that my Dance has agreed to
license its algorithm to the new US version of the
TikTok app, but that's not giving up complete control. She
and Trump may decide that's good enough, it may not
comply with US law. Under the proposed deal, TikTok's US
owners would lease a copy of byte Dance's algorithm, and
(09:11):
Oracle would help recreate and retrain it from the ground up.
Oracle would also provide security for the algorithm and store
data from US users in a secure cloud. The White
House says Byteedance will not have control over or access
to any information or algorithm in the US.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
So basically what they're trying to do is ensure that
American buyers actually do control the recommendation software behind TikTok
and the US And this gets to a key concern
by US lawmakers over the past few years, really, which
is that Chinese companies are mandated by law to share
user data with the Chinese government.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Coming up, what this means for US China relations and
who gained the upper hand at the negotiating table. There
was a lot at stake for both the US and
(10:12):
China in the negotiations over TikTok. Mark Anderson says it's
a toss up who came out on top.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
I think you could say it's a win win.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
The US gets a key concession from China that it's
been seeking for years, and China, within the broader context
of tariffs, geopolitical tensions, and the Ai race, Beijing might
start to see TikTok as a bargaining chip to get
a better deal in other, possibly more critical areas. Remember,
Beijing and Washington are due to resume trade talks, and
(10:41):
there are many other issues on the table that both
sides need to hammer out, fentanyl, nuclear proliferation, access to
AI technology. These are just a few of the bigger
issues on display here, But.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Bloomberg's whine House correspondent josh Win Grove says TikTok and
the national security alarms it raises seems to be a
bigger concerned to Washington in Beijing.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
I think both sides think they have leverage, but it
sure seems like the Chinese certainly do, if only because
Trump is backing off what had been a position of
his and we're seeing China able to squeeze in key
sectors in a way that is alarming the US. Now
that might be a wake up call for both parties.
I should know some of these issues were simmering under
(11:24):
the Piden administration, but it's pretty clear that China realizes
what the pressure coins are and is willing to press
on them if needed. And President Trump, chiefly through tariffs,
but not just through tariffs, through export controls and otherwise
also is doing that. And that is I think the
tension right now, in particular in the Republican Party is
(11:45):
like how far is too far and how much deal
making is okay. Trump's heading into a midterm election does
not want tariffs showing up on everyone's receipts left, right,
and center. So right now the bar to make a
deal with Trump seems to be shifting, and Koreau have
made deals UK China seems to be really driving towards
one or at least driving towards some sort of medium
(12:07):
term certainty. Using TikTok almost as like a then edge
of the wedge to get people to the table. But
the jury is very much out and no one knows
where it's going to land.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
With China, most of the details of the TikTok deal
have come from the US, China has been largely silent. Still,
Mark says it's a positive sign, an indication that the
two superpowers are willing to sit down and talk business.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
According to Trump, Chinese President's Jen Ping has approved the deal,
but so far Beijing has only really issued broad statements
without directly referring to any deal, saying it respects the
wishes of the company and is glad to see business
negotiations in line with market rules, just very general language
that doesn't indicate any kind of imminent signing of a deal. However,
(12:55):
they were very positive about the fact that Trump and
she were talking. They called the phone call a pragmatic,
positive and constructive talks. So I think that sort of
indicates the general feeling in Beijing, which is that this
deal is part of a broader push to move closer
to the US to put the Trump trade war behind
(13:15):
them Mark.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Just before the phone call took place last week, Trump
reportedly halted more than four hundred million dollars in military
aid to Taiwan. That's according to the Washington Post. Now
we don't know if that move is connected to the
TikTok deal, but still that's a significant development on its own.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
How are people reading that?
Speaker 3 (13:35):
I think it's part of Trump's transactional diplomacy. We've seen
it in Europe with NATO, But of course it serves
his purposes of appeasing a key Chinese demand as the.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Talks for this TikTok deal are taking place.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
So I would view it as possibly part of Trump's
art of the deal and also part of his transactional
diplomacy where he expects even the most key US allies
to pay their own way on defense.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
We know that Beijing views Taiwan as an inseparable part
of its Chinese territory and US officials have said that
she wants the Chinese military to be ready to invade
Taiwan by twenty twenty seven if the US support for
Taiwan is now on the table, and that's obviously a
big if, that would be a huge win for China.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, the US is by far Taiwan's most important for
an ally, and I think Taiwan has been reading the
writing on the wall and it's been ramping up its
own defense commitments in part to play k Trump and
his transactional approach to their relationship. Taiwan's president has announced
plans to increase military spending and approve special funding to
(14:41):
acquire more drones and ships. So I think those are
the kinds of overtures that Trump wants to see from
Taiwan right now. He wants to see them taking defense
into their own hands and maybe not relying on the
US as much as they used to. He wants to
be seen as a harder sell. He wants to negotiate
and get better deals for the US by posture and
(15:01):
making countries think twice before counting on support from Washington.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Mark, this deal strikes me as very much of a
Trump deal right and art of the deal agreement. But
it doesn't seem as if people are really up in
arms about that that it's so transactional with everything on
the table up for negotiations.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Let's not forget that Trump is a master at messaging,
and I think the messaging here is very good for
the people he cares about the most in the US,
which are of course his voters in his bass. He
can say I went to China, I went to President
chigen Ping, and I extracted a deal that couldn't have
been struck under Joe Biden. I was able to get
(15:39):
them to concede on a number of critical points. I
was able to get the algorithm essentially copy and pasted,
and now under American ownership, I was able to get
six out of seven seats on.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
The board for Americans.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I think for him it looks really good, and I
think he knows what he's doing when it comes to
selling this deal to Americans and to his base.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
How does it then make she look?
Speaker 5 (16:03):
For me?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I think it makes she look like he's more concerned
with the next ten years than the next six months.
He's playing a very long game here. He senses an
opportunity with Trump, like many other leaders, I think he
sees this transactional, very short term focused American president. How
many of those do you get in your lifetime? So
I think for him, maybe TikTok was the price to
(16:24):
pay for a better tariff deal, or a better deal
on rare earth magnets, better deal on access to Boeing airplanes.
These are the more important issues to the Chinese government.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
But Josh says whether the TikTok deal could serve as
a blueprint for how Chinese companies might strike future deals
with Washington remains to be seen.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
I think it's unclear right now. For instance, Trump hasn't
watered down restrictions on Chinese electric vehicles that carry similar
national security risks to a lot of folks. But it
does seem like everything sort of on the table right.
One thing we've also seen is on semiconductor chips, this
real transactionality, right, Trump allowing the age twenty chip to
(17:07):
be sold to China, but only so long as the
US government gets a fifteen percent cut of each of
those sales. So like the Hawk view is sort of
shifting a little bit, it seems in Washington right now,
where there's certain things aren't budgeting, like cars, farmland, whereas
other things maybe are more up for negotiation than we knew.
And so I think basically as all things with Trump,
(17:29):
you know, anything can be a negotiation at the right price.
It is consistent that Trump sees like revenue sources potentially
for the US government in this but of course has
been criticized by Vice President Mike Pence is former Vice
president and others, not just Democrats. But this is pushing
the US government too much into the realm of private business,
and that we're really sort of headed to like a
(17:50):
state run model in certain key sectors now more than
that it has been palatable for Republicans in the past.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
This is The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm
wanh to get more from The Big Take and unlimited
access to all of Bloomberg dot Com. Subscribe today at
Bloomberg dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked the episode,
make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take Asia
wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps people find
the show. Thanks for listening, See you next time.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Last Friday, President Donald Trump announced that his Chinese counterpart
Shi Jinping, had tentatively approved a deal to save TikTok
in the US.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I had a great goal with President Jay and as
you know, he approved the TikTok deal and we're in
the process with.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Under the proposed agreement, TikTok's US operations would be separated
from its Chinese parent company byt Edance, and a group
of new US backers would own a majority stake in
the company.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
This deal is part of a broader push to put
the Trump trade war behind them to re engage with
the US administration.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Mark Anderson is a Bloomberg Asia Tech editor based in
Hong Kong.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The very fact these two men were speaking was very significant.
Of course, the relations between China and the US are
at one of their lowest points for you years, and
both leaders are really looking to ratchet down the tension
and move on to the next chapter.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
On Friday, China's Foreign Ministry stops short of saying that
Beijing had given its final blessing and urged fair treatment
of Chinese interests.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Is the toy for of the Chinese statements.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
Well, I think I think so. I mean when you
say fully aproved, I don't know what that means. We
have to get we have to get it signed.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I guess most China analysts will tell you that when
she goes to those meetings, he sees it as sort
of a bow tying moment. All the work has been
done and he is there to bless things.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Josh Wingrove is Bloomberg's senior White House correspondent. He's been
covering the fight over TikTok since twenty twenty, when then
President Trump signed an executive order calling for its parent
company to divest its ownership or face a man in
the US.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Trump doesn't work that way, right. Trump wants to get
in it and pass it a deal himself and leave
the fine prend to tomorrow or to others. And so
that has been just sort of like an up is down,
down is up, diametrically a toast approach between the two countries.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Right now, This is the big take Asia from Bloomberg News.
I'm wanha. Every week we take you inside some of
the world's biggest and most powerful economies and the markets,
tycoons and businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today
(02:23):
on the show, we're diving into the TikTok deal between
the US and China, what it means for American users,
and who gained the upper hand at the negotiating table.
The battle over TikTok's fate in the US has been
(02:44):
brewing for years. The app is owned by a Chinese
corporation and exploded in popularity with American users back in
twenty twenty, during the early days of the COVID pandemic.
Up heart, Hey, everybody, welcome to my TikTok page.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
Okay, then what down should I try first?
Speaker 4 (03:04):
I love to take.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Since then, TikTok has experienced the type of growth most
tech companies can only dream of. It has more than
one hundred and seventy million users in the US alone,
that's half of the population, and its parent company, by Dance,
is valued at more than four hundred billion dollars, making
it the most valuable private business in China. Now.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
To US based.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Users, the app feels so American. It's widely popular with
gen zs, and it created a new class of entrepreneurs
influencers who've turned their Internet hustles into full time careers.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Here's how much I made it off of social media
as a college student who has twenty thousand dollars on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
If you want to go viral here on tech talk,
you're going to do these four things. But the app
is very much not American, and Bloomberg's Asia Tech editor
Mark Anderson says that's a big part of the problems.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Have long been concerned that TikTok could be used to
spy on American citizens. This stems from the fact that
China requires its companies to share national security data with
its government, so US officials are worried that China's government
could abuse the data of US TikTok users. You know,
they could collect dossia's a personal information, they could blackmail them,
(04:21):
they could exploit content preferences.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And a lot of concern about political interference during the action.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Season, especially in US elections.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yes, critically, in the twenty twenty US election, TikTok was
a very powerful platform. It's worth noting that Donald Trump
personally benefited from this, and there have been studies that
have shown that his ticket was boosted by TikTok, so
I think for him it's a personal issue. I've had
more people say, could you try and keep TikTok alive?
Speaker 5 (04:51):
I use TikTok. I mean I have to admit it
in the election, and look how I did with you.
No Republicans come alone today.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
President Trump is a TikTok advocate, but in his first
term he pushed for a ban, calling the app a
threat to national security. That sentiment was echoed by President Biden,
who signed a law requiring Byteedance to either Celtic Talk
or discontinue service in the US. The Supreme Court upheld
that ban and put the fate of the app back
(05:20):
in Trump's hands.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
President Trump has been deferring enforcement of that law by
executive action, and no one really seems spun up about it.
But it also does not seem clear that he has
iron cloud legal authority to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Bloomberg's Josh Wingrove and Mark Anderson say what's become clear
in recent months is that Presidents Trump and she are
looking for a solution for TikTok and for opportunities to
ease tensions between the two countries.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
The drama over trump Tariff's reaching up to one hundred
and forty five percent is still very fresh in the
mind for Sijenping, who's very much trying to change the
relationship in a way that benefits Beijing and possibly divest
TikTok at a crucial moment that helps him navigate the
next chapter in an advantageous way and secure better terms
(06:11):
for Chinese exports to the US.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
What do we know about the agreements that were reached
on TikTok so far?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
What we know about the deal so far is that Oracle,
the software giant, will take a major role in leading
a consortium that will also include Anderson Horovitz and silver
Lake Management. They will have an eighty percent or more
ownership stake in TikTok us as required by a law
that was passed last year in the United States. By dance,
(06:39):
the owner of TikTok at the moment must reduce its
stake to twenty percent or less.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
On top of that, the White House says this new
US only TikTok will be controlled by a board with
seven members, six of whom will be American. In an
interview with Fox News, Trump suggested that Michael Dell and
the family behind Fox, specifically Lachlan Murdoch and his father Rupert,
may also be involved in the TikTok takeover.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I hate to tell you this, but a man named
Lachlan is involved.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
You know, Lachlan is It's a very unusual name, Lachlan.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Murdoch, mister murder, I believe, and you call him and
Rupert is.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
Probably going to be in the group. I think they're
going to be.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Then there's the platform itself. While it's not clear yet
whether users will have to download a new app or
update their existing one, Mark says TikTok will create a
new platform for users in the US.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
The deal will create a new entity, a new app
that users will migrate to, and it will recreate the algorithm.
So I think the new owners are hoping for as
little disruption as possible to the user experience that these
one hundred and seventy million people know and love.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And of course the algorithm has been such a huge
point of contention. Right, this is what is used by
TikTok to suggest stories, suggest reels for people to right.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
The algorithm is a key sticking point for this deal.
The US law that was passed in twenty twenty four
says by Dance must give up complete control of the
algorithm and the technology that supports the algorithm if it's
going to keep TikTok alive in the country. But from
the very beginning of these talks about deal, and as
recently as a few weeks ago, the Chinese government has
(08:22):
set it refuses to do that. Most social networking platforms
rely on users to share content with each other. What
TikTok did that's so revolutionary is they created a way
for the app itself to suggest content to users through
their recent activity and their declared interests. So it really
allows people to interact with a platform completely on their own,
(08:47):
without any friends in the real world.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
A Beijing official said that my Dance has agreed to
license its algorithm to the new US version of the
TikTok app, but that's not giving up complete control. She
and Trump may decide that's good enough, it may not
comply with US law. Under the proposed deal, TikTok's US
owners would lease a copy of byte Dance's algorithm, and
(09:11):
Oracle would help recreate and retrain it from the ground up.
Oracle would also provide security for the algorithm and store
data from US users in a secure cloud. The White
House says Byteedance will not have control over or access
to any information or algorithm in the US.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
So basically what they're trying to do is ensure that
American buyers actually do control the recommendation software behind TikTok
and the US And this gets to a key concern
by US lawmakers over the past few years, really, which
is that Chinese companies are mandated by law to share
user data with the Chinese government.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Coming up, what this means for US China relations and
who gained the upper hand at the negotiating table. There
was a lot at stake for both the US and
(10:12):
China in the negotiations over TikTok. Mark Anderson says it's
a toss up who came out on top.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
I think you could say it's a win win.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
The US gets a key concession from China that it's
been seeking for years, and China, within the broader context
of tariffs, geopolitical tensions, and the Ai race, Beijing might
start to see TikTok as a bargaining chip to get
a better deal in other, possibly more critical areas. Remember,
Beijing and Washington are due to resume trade talks, and
(10:41):
there are many other issues on the table that both
sides need to hammer out, fentanyl, nuclear proliferation, access to
AI technology. These are just a few of the bigger
issues on display here, But.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Bloomberg's whine House correspondent josh Win Grove says TikTok and
the national security alarms it raises seems to be a
bigger concerned to Washington in Beijing.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
I think both sides think they have leverage, but it
sure seems like the Chinese certainly do, if only because
Trump is backing off what had been a position of
his and we're seeing China able to squeeze in key
sectors in a way that is alarming the US. Now
that might be a wake up call for both parties.
I should know some of these issues were simmering under
(11:24):
the Piden administration, but it's pretty clear that China realizes
what the pressure coins are and is willing to press
on them if needed. And President Trump, chiefly through tariffs,
but not just through tariffs, through export controls and otherwise
also is doing that. And that is I think the
tension right now, in particular in the Republican Party is
(11:45):
like how far is too far and how much deal
making is okay. Trump's heading into a midterm election does
not want tariffs showing up on everyone's receipts left, right,
and center. So right now the bar to make a
deal with Trump seems to be shifting, and Koreau have
made deals UK China seems to be really driving towards
one or at least driving towards some sort of medium
(12:07):
term certainty. Using TikTok almost as like a then edge
of the wedge to get people to the table. But
the jury is very much out and no one knows
where it's going to land.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
With China, most of the details of the TikTok deal
have come from the US, China has been largely silent. Still,
Mark says it's a positive sign, an indication that the
two superpowers are willing to sit down and talk business.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
According to Trump, Chinese President's Jen Ping has approved the deal,
but so far Beijing has only really issued broad statements
without directly referring to any deal, saying it respects the
wishes of the company and is glad to see business
negotiations in line with market rules, just very general language
that doesn't indicate any kind of imminent signing of a deal. However,
(12:55):
they were very positive about the fact that Trump and
she were talking. They called the phone call a pragmatic,
positive and constructive talks. So I think that sort of
indicates the general feeling in Beijing, which is that this
deal is part of a broader push to move closer
to the US to put the Trump trade war behind
(13:15):
them Mark.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Just before the phone call took place last week, Trump
reportedly halted more than four hundred million dollars in military
aid to Taiwan. That's according to the Washington Post. Now
we don't know if that move is connected to the
TikTok deal, but still that's a significant development on its own.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
How are people reading that?
Speaker 3 (13:35):
I think it's part of Trump's transactional diplomacy. We've seen
it in Europe with NATO, But of course it serves
his purposes of appeasing a key Chinese demand as the.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Talks for this TikTok deal are taking place.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
So I would view it as possibly part of Trump's
art of the deal and also part of his transactional
diplomacy where he expects even the most key US allies
to pay their own way on defense.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
We know that Beijing views Taiwan as an inseparable part
of its Chinese territory and US officials have said that
she wants the Chinese military to be ready to invade
Taiwan by twenty twenty seven if the US support for
Taiwan is now on the table, and that's obviously a
big if, that would be a huge win for China.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, the US is by far Taiwan's most important for
an ally, and I think Taiwan has been reading the
writing on the wall and it's been ramping up its
own defense commitments in part to play k Trump and
his transactional approach to their relationship. Taiwan's president has announced
plans to increase military spending and approve special funding to
(14:41):
acquire more drones and ships. So I think those are
the kinds of overtures that Trump wants to see from
Taiwan right now. He wants to see them taking defense
into their own hands and maybe not relying on the
US as much as they used to. He wants to
be seen as a harder sell. He wants to negotiate
and get better deals for the US by posture and
(15:01):
making countries think twice before counting on support from Washington.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Mark, this deal strikes me as very much of a
Trump deal right and art of the deal agreement. But
it doesn't seem as if people are really up in
arms about that that it's so transactional with everything on
the table up for negotiations.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Let's not forget that Trump is a master at messaging,
and I think the messaging here is very good for
the people he cares about the most in the US,
which are of course his voters in his bass. He
can say I went to China, I went to President
chigen Ping, and I extracted a deal that couldn't have
been struck under Joe Biden. I was able to get
(15:39):
them to concede on a number of critical points. I
was able to get the algorithm essentially copy and pasted,
and now under American ownership, I was able to get
six out of seven seats on.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
The board for Americans.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I think for him it looks really good, and I
think he knows what he's doing when it comes to
selling this deal to Americans and to his base.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
How does it then make she look?
Speaker 5 (16:03):
For me?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I think it makes she look like he's more concerned
with the next ten years than the next six months.
He's playing a very long game here. He senses an
opportunity with Trump, like many other leaders, I think he
sees this transactional, very short term focused American president. How
many of those do you get in your lifetime? So
I think for him, maybe TikTok was the price to
(16:24):
pay for a better tariff deal, or a better deal
on rare earth magnets, better deal on access to Boeing airplanes.
These are the more important issues to the Chinese government.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
But Josh says whether the TikTok deal could serve as
a blueprint for how Chinese companies might strike future deals
with Washington remains to be seen.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
I think it's unclear right now. For instance, Trump hasn't
watered down restrictions on Chinese electric vehicles that carry similar
national security risks to a lot of folks. But it
does seem like everything sort of on the table right.
One thing we've also seen is on semiconductor chips, this
real transactionality, right, Trump allowing the age twenty chip to
(17:07):
be sold to China, but only so long as the
US government gets a fifteen percent cut of each of
those sales. So like the Hawk view is sort of
shifting a little bit, it seems in Washington right now,
where there's certain things aren't budgeting, like cars, farmland, whereas
other things maybe are more up for negotiation than we knew.
And so I think basically as all things with Trump,
(17:29):
you know, anything can be a negotiation at the right price.
It is consistent that Trump sees like revenue sources potentially
for the US government in this but of course has
been criticized by Vice President Mike Pence is former Vice
president and others, not just Democrats. But this is pushing
the US government too much into the realm of private business,
and that we're really sort of headed to like a
(17:50):
state run model in certain key sectors now more than
that it has been palatable for Republicans in the past.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
This is The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm
wanh to get more from The Big Take and unlimited
access to all of Bloomberg dot Com. Subscribe today at
Bloomberg dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked the episode,
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the show. Thanks for listening, See you next time.
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